their own Prophets said The Cretians are alwayes lyers evil beasts slow bellies This witnesse is true wherefore rebuke them sharply that they may be sound in the faith Now if the Apostle did quote a Heathen Author to confute error surely it is no sin for a Minister now to quote Authors to confute error Also the Apostle writing to Timothy of false teachers saith Of this sort are they which creep into houses and lead captive silly Women laden with sins Now saith the Apostle as Jannes and Iambres withstood Moses so do these also resist the truth men of corrupt mindes or judgements and reprobates concerning the faith Now I would know of you where you read in the Scripture of Jannes and Jambres withstanding Moses wherefore it is supposed that Paul did read it in some ancient writing and did alledge it for conviction of those false teachers But I know you cannot indure Antiquity because you know you have taken up a new Religion which none of the ancient Fathers knew nay I believe you cannot produce any modern Writer that ever writ in the maintaining of your new wilde opinions and is it to be supposed or imagined that the truth of the Gospel hath been hid a thousand six hundred years and that Christ had no Church upon earth till you Quakers sprung up which â—â—th been but of late years if so then Christ ceased to be a Head or else he was a head without a Body which is folly and madnesse for any man to imagine But I shall shew you hereafter of what antiquity many of your opinions are and so passe from your fourth ground and come to your fifth ground that The Ministers are no lawful Ministers because they take money for Preaching or Tithes or Glebe lands or Augmentations But say the Apostles preached freely to all which I shall give you answer And first I shall lay down this for a ground from the Apostles words that God hath ordained that they which preach the Gospel should live of the Gospel and this Christ and his Apostles taught contrary to you Quakers opinions for Christ when he gave his Apostles their charge to go abroad to preach the Gospel commanded them to take or provide neither silver nor gold in their purses nor scrip for their journey nor coats nor sâ—aves for the workman is worthy of his meat so that Christ did promise to the Disciples a sufficient maintenance for meat drink and apparel at that time when there were very few that durst professe the Gospel After Christ Ascention when the Gospel was more spread abroad the people sold their Land and Houses and brought the money and laid it at the Apostles feet and Ananias and Sapphira having sold their possession and kept back part were strook dead and do you think the Apostles were not maintained out of that common stock after that the Apostles had gathered Churches he complained of the Church of Corinths backwardnesse in allowing him maintenance saying Have not we power to eat and to drink and to lead about a sister a wife who goeth a warfare at his own charge who planteth a vineyard and eateth not of the fruit for it is written Thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the Oxe that treadeth out the corn doth God take care for Oxen or saith he Is it not for our sakes altogether that he that ploweth should plow in hope if we sow unto you spiritual things is it a great thing if we shall reap your carnal things do we not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the Gospel should live of the Gospel And the Apostle saith That he robbed other Churches taking wages to doe the Corinthians service That is to speak plainly the Apostle did take maintenance from other Churches when he preached to the Corinthians and so many Ministers at this time take maintenance from other Churches because the Parish or people unto whom they preach are not able or not willing to allow them sufficient maintenance which I know of a truth Also many Ministers have the greatest part of their maintenance from a few honest godly persons when many of far greater abilities and that of right ought to pay far greater share pay far lesse and many in a Parish to my knowledge neither give nor pay any thing towards the Ministers maintenance and many but four pence a year for their whole families in which sense many of our Ministers may say they rob other Churches or Christians to do other service and yet you Quakers cry out that all our Ministers are Hirelings and false Prophets because they â—â—ke wages or yearly stipends and may you not 〈…〉 say so of the Apostle seeing he saith of himself that he did take wages also the Apostle writing to the Calatians saith Let him that is taught in the word communicate unto him that teacheth in all good things but few that are taught do so communicate unto their teacher as Luther complaineth in his Sermon upon the same verse in his time for Satan saith he can abide nothing lesse then the light of the Gospel therefore he goeth about with all main and might to quench it and this he attempteth two manner of waies First by lying Spirits such as you are and then by Poverty and that he endevours by withdrawing the Livings of the Ministers that they being oppressed with Poverty and Necessity their persons and ministery should be brought into contempt or forced to forsake the ministery to work for their livings and so the people being destitute of the ministery of the Gospel should become in time as savage and wilde beasts where he complaineth of many Magistrates Noblemen and Gentlemen who take away the Church goods whereby the Ministers should live and turn them to other uses And I could wish that we in England had no cause to take up the like complaint I hope I have not offended you in quoting what Luther writeth seeing he was one of the greatest enemies the Papists ever had and therefore I hope no Popish Father But to proceed mind what the Apostle writeth to Timothy Let the Elders that rule well be counted worthy of double honour especially they who labour in the word and doctrine Now that the Apostle doth mean by one of the honours the honour of maintenance is plain by the words following for the Scripture saith Thou shalt not muzzle the Oxe that treadeth out the corn and the labourer is worthy of his reward and the Apostle in the same Epistle saith That a Bishop or Elder must be given to hospitality Now if a Minister must live upon the Charity of others himself have shall he have wherewith to releive others and by given to hospitality can be no other thing meant Also the Apostle saith If any man provide not for his own family he hath denied the faith and is
Minister because the People unto whom he Preacheth liveth in many sins then I say by the same ground you may as well prove that the Prophets and Apostles were no true Teachers for the Lord sometimes sendeth his Prophets among a people not for their conversion but to harden them in their sins and to leave them without excuse Noah was a Preacher of righteousnesse and Preached to the old world to have them repent and yet they repented not but God brought a Floud and drowned the whole World except Noah and his Family and will you say that Noah was not therefore a Preacher of righteousnesse or a true Preacher and afterward was not Noah overtaken with drinking the Wine that he made of the Grapes that he was drunk and yet that sin of his did not prove him to be no true Teacher Also Just Lot so called did labour by Teaching Reproving and Exhorting the Sodomites to repent and turn from their wickednesse but could not prevail and God destroyed them with Fire and Brimstone from Heaven And Lot after that great deliverance fell into grosse sins namely Drunkennesse and Incest was he not therefore a good Teacher Also the Prophet Samuel what pains did he take with the Children of Israel to reclaim them from their sins but could not prevail for the Lord said they have not rejected thee but me was he not therefore a true Prophet Also the Prophet Elias how little did he prevail with the Children of Israel to reclaim them insomuch that he saw none but himselfe that was not fallen to worship Ball saying They have slain thy Prophets and I am left alone Also the Lord said unto the Prophet Esai Go and tell this people Hear ye indeed but understand not and see ye indeed but perceive not Make the heart of this people fat and make their eares heavy and shut their eyes least they see with their eyes and hear with their eares and understand with their heart and convert and be healed Then said I Lord how long and he answered Untill the Cities be wasted without Inhabitants and the Houses without Men and the Land be utterly desolate And the Prophet complaineth that all day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and a gain-saying people And was not the Prophet Isaiah therefore a true Prophet but you will say these were before Christ was come in the flesh Wherefore I shall shew you the same in effect after Christ his coming in the flesh to omit what Christ complaineth of concerning the obstinate Jews in which I might be large only take that one complaint of his O Jerusalem Jerusalem thou that killest the Prophets and stonest them which are sent unto thee how often would I have gathered thy Children together even as a Hen gathereth her Chickens under her wings and ye would not behold your houses are left unto you desolate Now if Christ who was God as well as Man complaineth that Jerusalem would not be gathered or converted unto him is it any strange thing that those that follow him do see such small fruit of their labours Wherefore take a view of what followed after Christ his Ascention and after the full accomplishing of Christs promise to send the Holy Ghost The Apostle Paul after he had with much labour by preaching gathered a people in Corinth what fruits did spring up and grow among them there was great divisions and contentions among them every one of you saith I am of Paul and I of Apollos and I of Cephas and I of Christ Also the Apostle saith that it is reported commonly that there is Fornication among you and such as is not so much as named amongst the Gentiles that one should love his Fathers Wife and ye are puffed up and have not rather mourned Also the Apostle complaineth that there were divisions among them about the Lords Supper For in eating every one taketh before other his own supper and one is hungry and another is drunken and was not the Apostle therefore a true Teacher of the Gospel of Christ and was not the Church of Corinth therefore a true Church of Christ according to you Quakers tenets or opinions they are no true Churches in which there are divisions and in which there are any sins and corruptions and so much is implyed and expressed in your Paper where by the way I shall now write something to confute that error of yours in which you are not alone for you have too many that erre with you for company besides Quakers Now I have read several of your Pamphlets in which you write that the Church is in God and is Spiritual and that there is no true Church where there is divisions and where there is sin this Richard Farnworth Burroughs and several other wrâ—teth wherefore I desire you to take notice that the Apostle Paul writeth to these Corinthians and calleth them the Church of God at Corinth notwithstanding those corrupt Members that were among them such as you can scarse finde in the worst of our Congregations Also the Apostle writing to the Galatians calleth them the Churches of Galatia and that the Apostle saith O foolish Galatians who hath bewitched you that you should not obey the truth and are ye so foolish having begun in the Spirit are ye now made perfect by the flesh that is by the works of the Law which the Apostle calleth Flesh Also the Apostle writing to the Thessalonians calleth them the Church of the Thessalonians which is in God and yet the Apostle saith there were some unruly persons among them and some disorderly persons which the Apostle calleth Brethren That the withdrawing your selves from every Brother that walketh disorderly for we hear that there are some which walk among you disorderly working not at all but are busie bodies And if any man obey not our word by this Epistle note that man and have no company with him that he may be ashamed Minde Yet count him not as an Enemy but admonish him as a Brother Surely the Apostle wâ—s no Quaker for they deny to call any man or woman Brother or Sister though they walk never so orderly if not of their minde but say they are Heathen this I have heard several of your company speak Also Christ himself unto the Church of Ephesus saith That Thou hast left thy first love and unto the Angel of the Church in Pergamus That thou hast them that hold the doctrine of Balam so hast thou them that hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitans which thing I hate And unto the Angel of the Church of Thiatira I have a few things against thee because thou sufferest that woman Jezabel which calleth her selfe a Prophetesse to teach and to seduce my servants like the women among you Quakers that take upon them to Teach And unto the Angel of the Church of Sardis I know thy works that thou hast a name that
the Apostle In eating every one taketh before other his one Supper And one is hungry and another is drunken What have ye not houses to eat and to drink in or despise ye the Church of God By which it seemeth by the way that the place where the Corinthians met was not a house but some place set apart for them to meet in But what did the Apostle order and appoint in that case did he say you Corinthians have so abused this Supper that I command you not to use it any longer No the Apostle was no Quaker for he exorteth them and instructeth them how to reform these abuses and how to receive the Supper of the Lord aright and that he doth First by laying down Christs institution and command unto him for the use of that ordinance And secondly sheweth the great danger of unworthy receiving Thirdly directeth them how to receive the same aright But let a man examine himself and so let him eat of that bread and drink of that Cup. As if the Apostle had said though there be such danger in unworthy receiving yet would I not have you neglect the same But examine your selves and so come And in the end of the chapter tells them that The rest I will set in order when I come But you Quakers will have no order And as this was the practise of Christ and his Apostles so hath it been the practise of all reformed Churches since the Apostles days You Quakers are alone in this practise and woe be to him that is alone and a woe be to them who are so wise in their own conceipt as to think themselves wiser then Christ and his Apostles and all the Churches of Christ ever since the Apostles days which I leave to your serious consideration and be your own Judges whether you be perfect who walk so contrary to the command and example of Christ and his Apostles Seeing the Apostle exhorteth Be ye followers of me as I am of Christ And so I come to a third particular wherein your Practise is contrary to the example and Practise of Christ and his Apostles and all reformed Churches The third particular is your different practise from Christ and his Apostles in singing of Psalms Wherefore I shall lay down this for a truth That singging of Psalms with a Voyce is a part of Gods worship now in the days of the New Testament as well as in the days of the old For proof whereof take the example of Christ and his Apostles Who sang a Psalm or Hymme together after the administration of the Lords Supper which was a time of Sorrow and Heavinesse for Christ had newly told them before of his being betrayed and the time of his suffering was neer at hand and yet they sang a Psalm together which surely was for our example also the Apostle Paul and Silas being in prison Sang praises unto God also the Apostle Paul instructeth and exhorteth the Ephesians to speak one to another in Psalms and Hymnes and spiritual Songs and so to the Colossians Teaching and admonishing one another in Psalms and Hymnes and spiritual Songs Also the Apostle commandeth the Corinthians that such as sing in the Church should not only sing in the Spirit but with understanding Also those who sang when they had gotten Victory over the Beast are said to sing the Song of Moses and the Lamb by which it seemeth that the Song of Moses did suit with that deliverance But it is objected by you and others that these were not the Psalms of David but some other Hymnes or spiritual Songs immediately inspired which you like well and sometimes perswade your selves that you have such inspirations and fall a singing meer non-sense which edifies neither your selves nor others Wherefore I shall shew that all these three Titles are given to David's Psalms some are called Psalms some are called Hymnes some are called Songs that is spiritual Songs The Prophet David hath given these titles or names to them To the chief Musician a Psalm of David also a Psalm and Song at the dedication of the house of David To the chief Musician for the sons of Korah a Song upon Alamoth Now what reason can be given why the Apostle should direct us in our singing to the very Titles of David's Psalms if it were not his meaning that we should sing them so that you must exclude the Psalms of David from the name of Psalms and Hymnes and spiritual Songs or else you must be forced to acknowledge that we are exhorted to sing them as well as any other Is it not better to sing those Psalms or Hymns of David which we know to be indited by an infallible Inspiration of the spirit then to sing such Songs or Hymns as men invent of their private spirits or pretend to be immediately inspired by the spirit which appears to be their own fancies by the distractions and contradictions that are in them Doe you not think that Christ was better able to indite and sing new Psalmes or Hymnes then you Quakers and yet we have not the least intimation in Scripture of any new Psalm or Hymne indited or sung by Christ and his Apostles after the Lords Supper which certainly would have been recorded by the Evangelist who records far less matters in things which pertain to Gods Worship And it is supposed that Christ did sing with his Apostles one of these Psalms appointed or used to be sung at the end of the Passover and some affirm that it was the 118 Psalm which Christ did sing I confess by the suitableness of the Psalm to the occasion there may be some probability but I think no certainty But our Psalmes are not the same in meeter nor the same tunes which the Jews had That seeing the singing of Psalmes is a dutie commanded and amongst others those of David and hath hid from us the Hebrew tunes wherewith the Psalms of David were wont to be sung it must needs follow that the Lord hath left it to the libertie of the Church to sing them in such plain grave tunes as may fit the solemnitie of Gods Worship and that because that tunes are but circumstantial and not the substance and the Church now in the dayes of the Gospel is not in her minoritie or young age but in her man-age or full grown age as the Apostle speaketh and therefore fitter to appoint circumstantial things in Gods Worship then the Jews being in their non-age But Davids Psalmes are to be sung with Davids Spirit or the same Spirit which David had but in your Churches wicked persons sing that have not the Spirit That the whole congregation of the Church of the Jews did sing the Psalms of David and do you think that all those among the Jews that sung Davids Psalms had the same Spirit which David had in composing of them Though
the Scriptures They did not hearken to a light within them to see whether they were true But if you Quakers had such an infallible spirit that you cannot erre as you say you have then all that you speak and write musts need be truth and then we need not examine them by the Scriptures to see whether you write and speak the truth But I am not of that implicit faith to beleive what you write without examining the same by the Scriptures and by them I find you have a falable lying spirit that leadeth you into error but seeing you say you are so infallible that you cannot erre give me leave to examine some of your Books in Print Besides what I have already examined and proved many gross errors in them therefore not written by an infallible spirit so as that you cannot erre I shall examine some particulars in your new Primer made by George Fox the younger and some others in which there is as many errors as Pages I shall mention some few particulars by which we may discern what the rest are of the said Primer Children such are Deceivers who tell you that the way to come to know the truth is by the Scriptures Now if this be a true Doctrine then was Christ and his Apostles Deceivers for they taught the same Christ exhorteth to Search the Scriptures for in them ye think ye have eternal life and they are they that testifie of me Now if the Scriptures testifie of Christ then the reading of the Scriptures is a means to know the truth unless you deny that Christ is the truth if you do he affirmeth it saying I am the truth It was a true saying of a good man that The whole Scriptures are the swadling band that foulds the Child Jesus Also Christ saith to the Saduces ye erre not knowing the Scriptures Then by consequence the way to avoyd error and to know the truth is by the knowledge of the Scriptures and therefore Christ would have all to search the Scriptures And the Apostle Paul said that Timothy had known the Scriptures from a Child which are able to make thee wise unto salvation and that is by knowing the truth And the Apostle Peter saith We have a more sure word of prophesie whereunto you do well that ye take heed But you are enemies to the reading the Scriptures or expounding them Pag 15 Of the said Primer Children such are no Ministers of Gods word who tell you the Scriptures are the word of God Now if this be an infallible truth then I say the Prophets and Apostles were fallible and were no Ministers of Gods word for the Prophets Isaiah Jeremiah Ezekiel and most of the small Prophets said that The word of the Lord came unto them and they spake the word of the Lord. I beleive you may find what the Prophets preached called the word of the Lord or God above a hundred times and in the 20. of Exodus God spake all these words and what God spake is Gods word and what Christ spake and preached is the word of God unlesse you deny Christ to be God Also the Apostle James exhorteth Be ye doers of the Word and if any be hearers of the word and not doers c. And do you think the Apostle meaneth the word of man or the word of God Also the Apostle Peter saith We have a more sure word of prophesie whereunto ye do well that ye take heed And if the Apostles call the Scripture the word surely they are Gods word and by the word of Prophesie can be meant no other word I marvel that you Quakers who pretend to an infallible Spirit to know all things do not know that as Christ is called the eternal word of God so are the Scriptures written called the revealed will or word of God or his word revealed As when we write our mind or cause another to write our will or mind to another we are properly said to send word or what is so written to be our word Pag. 33. Of the said Primer That by the blood of Jesus Christ cleansing you from all sin is meant the life of Christ Now I would know where you ever read in Scripture that we are cleansed from all sin by the life of Christ or whether the blood of Christ were ever taken for the life of Christ in Scripture I would fain know your meaning of this dark mystical expression Whether you do believe that the blood which Christ shed upon the Crosse when he suffered without the Gates of Jerusalem be that blood that cleanseth from all sin I know partly your meaning by what I have heard from several of your company and read in several of your Books wherefore that I may shew you what I beleive concerning the same according to the Scriptures mind the Apostle saith Without shadding of blood is no remission And he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself and in the body of his flesh through death to present you holy and unblamable and unreprovable in his sight And having made peace by the blood of his crosse But I fear you are strangers to this blood of Christ and it is a mystery hid from your eyes who pretend to know all mysteries but they are mysteries of iniquity while you count the blood of the covenant an unholy thing And as you are strangers to this blood of Christ that cleanseth from all sin so I fear you are Ignorant of the life of Christ For I would know whether by the life of Christ you mean the life that Christ lived in the dayes of his converse on earth from the time of his Birth to the time of his suffering death on the crosse or the life he now liveth in heaven or whether by the life of Christ you do not understand the life of a leigned Christ in you or a life imitating Christ his Life I know by what I have heard from the mouths of several and read in several of your books that you are strangers to the true life of Christ mentioned in Scripture and is a mystery hid from your eyes But mind what the Scriptures saith For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son much more being reconciled we shall be saved by his life Wherefore he is able to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them By which texts of Scripture you may see that we are justified or saved by Christ his life living now in heaven to make intercession for us But I never did read in the Scripture that our sins are washed away and that we are saved by what Christ wrought in us nor by imitating the life of Christ and yet I say that all those who are saved by the blood and the life of Christ have faith wrought in their hearts by the Spirit of Christ
A JUST DEFENCE and VINDICATION OF Gospel Ministers AND Gospel ordinances AGAINST The QVAKERS many false Accusations Slanders and Reproaches In ANSVVER to John Horwood his LETTER and E. B. his Book called A Just and lawful Tryal of the Ministers and Teachers of this Age and several others Proving the Ministers Calling and Maintenance Just and Lawful and the Doctrine of Perfection by Free Justification preached by them agreeable to the Scriptures VVith the Quakers Objections answered And the Quakers Perfection by hearkning to and obeying a light within them proved contrary to the Scriptures And their Practices in ten particulars proved contrary to the Commands and Examples of Christ and his Apostles By a Lover of Gospel Ministers and Gospel Ordinances Contend earnestly for the faith which was once delivered unto the Saints Jude 3. Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses so do these also resist the truth men of corrupt minds reprobate concerning the faith But they shall proceed no further for their folly shall be manifested to all men as theirs was 2 Tim. 3. 8 9. London Printed by W. G. for the Author and are to be sold by Isaac Pridmore at the Signe of the Golden Falcon neer the New Exchange 1660. The Epistle to the Reader Christian Reader I Know it will seem strange that I should spend so much time in writing An Answer to those people called Quakers for I confess it seemeth strange to my self For when I first entered upon this Work I did not in the least intend to have written so much nor that which was written should have come to publick view in Print I shall therefore give the Grounds or Reasons moving me both to write and to publish what I had written Wherefore know that the first Reason moving me to undertake this Worke was because of that great Malice and Envie against the Ministers at that time When the black Cloud appeared the Quakers Anabaptists and other Sectaries threatning the utter ruine of our Ministers not onely by their reviling Reproaches false Accusations and the like but by their labouring to get hands to Petition those then in Authoritie to take away their maintenance setled by Law and that because they were no lawfull Ministers as is expressed in one of their Printed Papers presented to those then in Authoritie and by those many Pamphlets printed against Tithes and our present Ministery Published by the Quakers and Anabaptists and when those failed by getting the Army to joyn with them to turn the Parliament men out and setting up themselves in their stead to rule all by their giddy heads theatning that now all the Priests should be turned out as unprofitable burthens to the Common-wealth Notwithstanding all this the Misters were for the most part silent not willing to foul their pens by writing against such a wild generation but in patience committed their cause unto God by prayer who hath in some measure answered them For whose sake next my Lord and Master Jesus Christ I did undertake this Work hoping they and all others will except of my poor weak endeavours and pass by my weaknesses wherein I have slipped either in impertinences or otherwise nor regard the rudeness of my Stile but look on the scope and end of my poor Labours to maintain a Gospel Ministery and Gospel Ordinances although defended without Eloquence or humane Arts in which I hope I have pleased the Adversaries though I despise them in other things The second Reason was because of those many Letters and printed Books sent unto me by several Quakers some of themselves reporting they are unanswerable And considering what Solomon the wise saith Answer a fool according to his folly lest he be wise in his own conceit And I perceive the not answering these men is one ground of their self-confidence and being wise in their own conceit And although this Answer be plain without humane Art or Eloquence yet considering that the persons with whom I have to deal are such as despise all such Learning and mock at Universities and Colledges I suppose this Answer may best fit their spirits coming from a private person who hath not the help of outward Learning and Tongues no more then themselves of w ch they boast that they can write so many Books without those humane helps and that what the Priests as they call them write that is only by their humane learning which they think is ground sufficient for them not to regard what is written by them But I hope they will have so much regard as to read what I have written seeing we are on even terms in that particular The third Reason of writing and publishing this Answer because of the great growth and increase of these Errors by reason of the diligence of the Devils instruments in writing and printing so many Books to spread abrode their Errors some of them have affirmed in my hearing That there is a thousand of their erronious Books printed every week and most of them given away on purpose to delude ignorant people and that there are above thirty thousand Quakers in England and that within less then 3. yeers they shall stop the mouths of all our Priests as they call them they having but one string left to their bow and that Gods Sword was now drawn to cut that and then they are gone Wherefore considering the great diligence of these men and women for promoting of Errour not only by writing and printing their erronious Books but by their diligence in running or going about from one place to another to spread their errors not onely in England but in Ireland Scotland Barbadus and new England Holland and other places I was ashamed to see how cold and backward we are in opposing their errors and defending the Truth of the Gospel Ministerie and Gospel Ordinances against the many assaults of the adversaries and is it not a shame That Sectaries should be more zealous in promoting the kingdom of the devil then we are in promoting the Kingdome of Jesus Christ and yet how many of us have solemnly ingaged our selves by Oath or Covenant to indeavour the extirpation of Superstition Herisie Schism Prophaneness and whatsoever shall be found to be contrary to sound Doctrine and the power of Godliness lest we partake in other mens sins and thereby be in danger to receive of their plagues The consideration of which hath been a chief motive to undertake this work and to cast in my Mite others having brought forth out of their Treasure The fourth Reason moving me to under take this work and publish the same was because many of my old friends acquaintance are seduced from the Truth to these errors of whom I may say as the Prophet David said We took sweet counsel together and went unto the publick assemblies together and not onely friends and acquaintance but some of near relation for whom the bond of nature bindeth me to endeavour their recalling back and the rather because I
they are not the abler Ministers but lesse able and yet I doe not deny but they are lawfull Ministers being lawfully called But I wonder that you make these things to be a ground of their unfitnesse which is rather a ground of their fitnesse for do you not read of the schools of the Prophets and Paul doth thank God that he spake with tongues more than they all which he would not have done if it had been a sin so to do and Paul was brought up at the feet of Gamaliel a learned man in all tongues and if there had been no Scholars that had learned the Hebrew and Greek tongues I wonder how we in England should have understood the Scriptures seeing the Old Testament was written in Hebrew and the other in Greek and they are not so perfectly translated but that there is need of the Hebrew and Greek tongues to explaine some texts of Scripture And for the Latine tongue how many learned godly men have written severall excellent books in the Latine tongue usefull in the Church which we had neither known nor understood if they had not been translated out of the Latine tongue into English And besides the Latine tongue is a help to Reading and Writing in the English tongue and by this we may see what friends Quakers are to Religion that would have no helps either for understanding or reading But the Apostle saith that a Bishop must not be a novice and the Apostle Peter saith that there are some things in Paul his Epistles hard to be understood which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest as they do also the other Scriptures unto their own destruction and are not you Quakers such unlearned unstable persons who plead against Learning And that you are unstable doth appear because for the most part you have been of severall opinions in Religion running from one opinion to another and now grow obstinate for the most part in your opinions But I know your objection that Peter and the rest Apostles were not brought up at Schools nor had no humane Learning To which I answer that as they had an extraordinary Call so God did in an extraordinary manner endow them with the gift of Tongues as you may read in the Acts of the Apostles where it it said They were all filled with the Holy Ghost and began to speak with other tongues as the Spirit gave them utterance Now when I see or hear you Quakers have the gift of Tongues to speak all manner of Languages without being taught in a miraculous extraordinary manner as the Apostles had then shall I believe you have such an extraordinary Call as the Apostles had and till then I shall believe you are a company of deluded bewitched people To say no more to this particular but beware the Geese when the Fox preacheth who hath more Subtily then Learning or Solidity And now I shall answer your third ground against our Ministers Because they study for what they teach To which I answer that the Apostle Paul writing to Timothy saith Give attendance to reading to exhortation to doctrine neglect not the gift that is in thee which was given by prophesie meditate upon these things give thy selfe wholly to them that thy profiting may appear to all Take heed unto thy self and unto thy doctrine continue in them and is not Meditation study if you say it is not then read what the Apostle saith in the second Epistle to Timothy Study to shew thy self approved unto God a workman that needeth not to be ashamed rightly dividing the word of truth You Quakers are wiser than the Apostle you say your teachers need not study and Timothy was I believe more able to preach without study than any of your Quakers who take upon them to Teach without study and therefore I marvel not that your Teachers Men and Women speak so much nonsense and use so many vain repetitions of the same things But for dividing the Word or Doctrine which the Apostle exhorteth Timothy to use I never heard among any of the Quakers so oft as I heard them speak also the Apostle exhorteth him that is a Minister to wait on Ministering or he that Teacheth on Teaching the Apostle would that they should make it their businesse or whole work Give thy self wholly to them saith Paul to Timothy I know your objection is that the Apostles preached without study and Paul did work and we Quakers have the same spirit that the Apostles had To which I answer That as the Apostles had an extraordinary Call so they were indowed with extraordinary gifts above any man of an ordinary Calling and although all Ministers have the same Spirit the Apostles had yet have they not the same measure of the Spirit for as the Apostle saith there are diversities of Gifts but the same Spirit to one is given by the Spirit the word of Wisdome to another the word of Knowledge to another the working of Miracles to another Prophesie but all these worketh that one and the self same Spirit dividing to every man severally as he will Now if you Quakers have the same measure of the Spirit as the Apostles had why do you not work miracles as the Apostle did when I see that then shall I believe you can Preach without study and tâ—ll then I shall believe you Prate and not Preach And now I come to answer your fourth ground which is that our Ministers study old Authors the writings of the antient Fathers and Popish Writers For answer to which I do marvel how you Quakers know those antient Fathers to be Popish Authors seeing most of their writings are in Latine and you count it a sin for a Minister to learn Latine and surely if you Quakers had formerly learned the Latine tongue yet now you dare not read Latine books wherefore you have no ground to say they are Popish Authors from your own knowledge but from hear-say of others and so you are a false witnesse-bearer But it is no new thing for you to count all men Popish that are not of your wild opinions but if you had not plowed with the Papists heifer you had never known nor learned so many of their errors as I shall prove hereafter you have but I do believe it is lawfull for a Minister to read Popish Authors and to study what they read else how shall they know what they hold and how to confute their errors unlesse they do as you do take all by hear-say But the the Apostle saith Try all things and keep that which is good and the Apostle writing to Titus that he should oppose those that say against the truth for saith he There are many disobedient and vain talkers and deceivers of mindes chiefely they of Circumcision whose mouths must be stopped which subvert whole houses teaching things which they ought not And that their mouths might be stopped the Apostle alledgeth what one of
of that Scripture contrary to that of the Apostle Peter Holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost Besides if Paul had not the Spirit at that time then he had lost it unlesse you say he had not the Spirit while after he had written the seventh Chapter to the Romans Also the Apostle Paul complaineth in his Epistle to the Corinthians saying That a thorn in the flesh the messenger of Sathan to buffer me which is taken to be some corruption Also the Apostle writing to the Galathians saith For the Flesh lusteth against the Spirit and the Spirit against the Flesh and these are contrary the one to the other So that ye cannot do the things that ye would according to what he said of himself before Also the Apostle Peter that Pillar of the Church which the Papists your Fathers do so much boast of that he could not erre as you Quakers say of your selves To passe by his sin in denying Christ before Christ suffered you may read in the Epistle to the Galathians that the Apostle Paul withstood the Apostle Peter to the face because he was to be blamed Why for what the Apostle saith That before the Jews he dissembled fearing them of the Circumcision and that Barnabas was also carried away with their dissimulation But saith the Apostle When I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the Gospel Now this sin of theirs was not a sin of Ignorance but of Knowledge dissembled and now I am writing of Barrabas I call to minde that great strife that was between Paul and him that although they were put apart together for the ministery of the Gentiles had travelled through many regions and preached unto them the Gospel that then they should so fall out one with the other that they should parâ— asunder there must needs be a fault either in Paul or Barnabas and surely they both had the Spirit of Christ at the same time and were Justified and Sanctified Also this passion of theirs bringeth to minde what the Apostle James writeth concerning the Prophet Elias That he was a man subject to like passions as we are that you may read of him in the Book of Kings Now if Elias that was taken up into Heaven was a mah subject to passion and Paul and Barnabas dare you Quakers say you are more holier then they I the Apostle saith That in many things we offend all and was not the Apostle a true teacher because he taught such doctrine as you say our Ministers are not Also the Apostle John saith If we say we have no sin we deceive our selves and the truth is not in us Minde the Apostle doth not say if you but we putting himself within the nnmber Also he saith If we say that we have not sinned we make him a lyar and his word is not in us I marvel not that you Quakers do so often give Men the lye seeing you give God the lye for so saith the Apostle that knew better than you for you know not your own hearts if you did you durst not so speak you never yet knew the Spiritual meaning of the Law that the least evil thought or motion to sin though not acted is a breach of the pure Law of God if you did then would you say and pray as the Prophet David did Who can understand his errors cleanse thou me from secret faults or sins If the Prophet David who was a man after Gods own heart and a pen-man of holy Scripture confessed that who can which interrogation is a negation none can understand or know all the secret sins of his life prayed to God to pardon them Do you Quakers know more and are you more holy than he I know you are so in your own opinions But I shall have occasion hereafter to discover the falsenesse of your opinion in that particular Now to make this appear more plain consider that there is no need of Christ his mediatorship propitiation or intercession for if the Church and people of God do not sin why then doth the Apostle John say And if any man sin we have an advocate with the Father Jesus Christ the righteous And he is the propitiation for our sins Minde the Apostle saith We have an advocate and he is the propitiation for our sins the Apostle includeth himself within the number Also the Apostle Paul saith to the Romans Who shall lay any thing to the charge of Gods elect why Minde the Apostle doth not say for they have no sin But it is God that justifieth who is he that condemneth it is Christ that died yea rather that is risen again who is even at the right hand of God who also maketh intercession for us he includeth himself Also the Apostle to the Hebrews Wherefore he is able also to save to the uttermost them that come unto God by him seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them Now consider that this intercession of Christ is necessary for the Saints in regard of their best works For the Prophet Esay saith in the name of the whole Church But we are all as an unclean thing and all our Minde rigteousnesses are as filthy rags Also the Apostle Paul saith of himself Yea doubtlesse and I count all things but losse for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord for whom I have suffered the losse all things and do count them but dung that that I may win Christ Now the Apostle counted his righteousnesse which is of the Law to be such that he might be found in Christ not having his own righteousnesse but that which is through the faith of Christ This intercession of Christ for the Saints for to take away the pollution of their best actions was typified by the High-priest Aaron was to have a plate of pure gold and engraven upon it holinesse to the Lord. And it shall be upon Aarons fore-head that Aaron may bear the iniquity of the holy things that the Children of Israel may be accepted before the Lord. A Mans best works as they come from Man are unclean because there is corruption in the best men for all men are conceived and born in sin as David confesseth of himself Behold I was shaped in iniquity and in sin did my mother conceive me Now this original corruption is in the best Man what ever you say or think to the contrary Now as water that is pure and clean in the fountain if it run or come through a corrupt pipe or channel it will be foul and unclean even so the Spirit of God in Man being the fountain from whence all good cometh is pure and clean but passing through Mans corrupt nature becometh defiled And therefore you may read that the Angel stood at the Altar having a golden Censer and there was given unto him much Incense that he should offer it
any conference with the Papists Armenians Pelagians and Familists that they all hold plead and maintain that there is a light in every mans conscience which if he improve and husband well they may attain Salvation by which you may see how much you are deluded and deceived that think your selves run so far from the Papists when you are run to their chief principles of Religion I do not much wonder at your change seeing you are fallen from this article of Justification by Faith alone for as Luther well observeth and foretold Wherefore saith he I say as I have oftentimes said that there is no remedy against Sects and Errors or power to resist them but this only article of Christian Righteousnesse if we lose this article it is impossible for us to withstand any Errors or Sects as we may see at this day in the fantasticall Spirits the Anabaptists and such like who being fallen away from this article of Justification will never cease to fall erre and seduce others untill they come to the fulnesse of all iniquity Minde There is no doubt but they will raise up innumerable Sects and shall devise new works but what are all these things though they have never so goodly a shew of holinesse if we compare them to the Death and Blood of the Son of God who gave himself for me and is it any strange thing to see a man go astray when he hath lost his right way Now Christ is the way and the only way all other wayes are by-paths of a mans own invention he is the rock of ages the chief corner-stone and who ever stumbleth on him he must be dashed in pieces and though a man do erre in many things as we all do yet if he hold fast the foundation he shall be safe and this doctrine of Christian righteousnesse or the righteousnesse of Christ alone apprehended by Faith is this sure foundation and if we miscarry in that we perish eternally but holding that fast we shall be safe to all eternity And now I shall endevour to answer you and the Papists objections concerning this doctrine preached and maintained by our Ministers that a Christian is made perfect by what Christ alone did and suffered and not by any thing done in us or by us Now you Quakers and the Papists do object against this doctrine that it is a doctrine that giveth people liberty to sin and to neglect good works for say you if we lay all our sins upon Christ then we make him a pack-horse for to bear our sins and it matters not how we live in sin Christ having satisfied for them For answer to this I say that this doctrine is a doctrine of Christian Liberty and not a doctrine of Carnal Liberty but such who have carnal hearts and never felt the life and power of Faith have abused this doctrine of Christian Righteousnesse to Carnal Liberty and will abuse the same for the best things are most subject to abuse but the abuse of any thing doth not take away the lawful use of it In the Apostle Paul's dayes there were such for the Apostle having preached the doctrine of Free Grace That where Sin abounded Grace did much more abound what then shall we say shall we continue in Sin that Grace may abound God forbid Offences will come saith Christ but woe be unto those by whom they are given Some followed Christ for by-ends and there were many in the Church of Corinth and Galatia and Philippa that walked disorderly but yet the Apostle Preached and writ this doctrine of Free Justification We know in civil things how apt men are to abuse them as Wine and strong Beer to Drunkennesse good Meat to Gluttony shall we say therefore they are not good nor lawfull to be used and we know a sick Stomach cannot well digest the best meat and shall we therefore say the meat is not good do you not know that Christ saith that many are called but few chosen many called to the external profession of the Gospel but few that live answerable thereunto But the Gospel is still the same and to be Preached as the Apostle saith I am called to Preach the Gospel and wo is me if I Preach not the Gospel and the chief cause why so many walk disorderly is because people do not believe this doctrine of Free Grace for The Grace of God which hath appeared and bringeth Salvation teacheth us That denying ungodlinesse and wordly lusts we should live soberly righteously and godly in this present world The apprehending of the love of God in Christ is that which draweth the heart to love God and love our Brethren as it is said of Mary Magdelen Her sins which are many are forgiven for she loved much Her loving much was not the cause of her sins being forgiven but her sins being forgiven was the cause of her loving much as appears by Christs own words But to whom little is forgiven the same loveth little As for the other Objection That this doctrine of being Justified by the righteousnesse of Christ alone is a means to make men neglect good works I Answer That no man can do one good work before he be justified by Faith in Christ for The person must be accepted before the work can be accepted By Faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain but without Faith it is impossible to please him The Lord had respect first to Abel then to his offering for as Christ saith Either make the tree good and his fruit good or else make the tree corrupt and his fruit corrupt Now we are made good trees only by bâ—â—ng ingraffed into Christ by Faith and all the works that men do before Faith though never so good for the matter and morally good in themselves yet are they but beautifull abominations in Gods sight the person being not Justified the works that a man doth though good in themselves do not make any man good no more than the good fruit on a tree maketh the tree good but because the tree is good therefore the fruit is good But you Quakers and Papists say then it matters not whether a man do any good works seeing they make him not good By which you manifest your grosse Ignorance of the truth for the Scripture doth teach that good works do declare and manifest the truth of our Faith that it is not a dead but a living Faith as the fruit which the tree beareth doth shew and manifest what the tree is if the fruit be good then is the tree good if the tree bring forth no fruit then it is a barren tree or a dead tree and that is the Apostles meaning when he saith that Faith without works justifieth not The Apostle treateth of manifesting and declaring the truth of our Faith that it is a living Faith and not a dead Faith or rather a bare profession of Faith for saith
for so saith the Apostle Iohn If we say we have no sin we deceive our selves and the truth is not in us If we say that we have not sinned we make him a lyer and his word is not in us you make God a lier because he saith All men are liers you are men therefore liers and therefore sinners in themselves which I have formerly proved at large Wherefore I should insist upon those lies which you have written and printed and reported For those untruths which thou John Horwod hast written in thy Letter concerning the Ministers and my self I shall but briefly touch them Thou sayest that our Ministers keep people in sin abominable lie For they preach against sin Thou saist that our Ministers know nothing but by Tongues and Art and that they preach for nothing but money Most gross lies If our Ministers did not preach for Conscience to discharge their duties in publishing the Truth how and why have so many of them suffered the loss of their lives and estates and so many lost their Livings and suffered Imprisonment and some Banishment I never heard of any Quakers that suffered so much for their Religion nor never shall for it is not worth suffering for but you cry out of suffering and persecution when none hurt you and that is another of your lies that you are persecuted when you are only perswaded out of your errours And this I know by experience and shall endeavour to clear my self from your lying slanderous tongues for some of your Quakers did report to several of my friends and acquaintance in London and to some of near relation that I was the greatest persecutor of the Quakers in all the Countrey which is a most gross lie for I never did doe them the least harm but indeavoured to doe them all the good that lay in my power both by labouring to convince and reclaim them from their errors and by endeavouring to restrain people from offering any violence against them I was sent by the Magistrate to desire a man at whose house they met to come to him where the Minister of the place was present and the Magistrate and Minister both did use all the love and meekness that could be expressed to perswade and convince him of his errour and did bring such plain proofs from Scripture to prove him to be seduced and brought into severall errours that both of them and my self did hope that the man was convinced he promising to come to the Ministers house for a Catechise of the grounds of Religion and to read the same but after the man came to his old company of Quakers they turned him to his errours and did continue their meetings at his house on the Sabbath day and on the Thursdayes where I had several conferences with them and their Teachers and seeing many rude boyes and others come about the door I desired the Magistrate to send the Officers of the Parish to fetch them away from the House lest their should be any disturbance which he did And now let all persons that hear this judge whether there were any persecution in all this and whether it was not a lie to say that I was the greatest persecutor of them in the Countrey For at Branford some of them were set in the stock some sent to Newgate and indited at the Scessions and severall of them beaten and was my reasoning with them and endevouring to reclaim them and endeavouring to restrain rude persons from disturbing them worse than all that they suffered at Branford which I never knew of while afterward But the first time that I met Sarah Blackbury at Cheeswick after some discourse with her she looked on me and said Thou wilt be a great or the greatest Persecutor of Gods People in all this countrey and I suppose because she would be counted a true prophetess she raised this lie on me which was soon spread abroad by her Disciples for she was counted one of the chief Teachers and doth send several of them abroad to several places to teach or rather to seduce and spred their lies abroad which are so many that I should weary my self to write them and others to read them wherefore I shall onely make mention of the lies in Print which are the greatest lies in Print that ever I read and that is in a Book or Pamphlet called A just and lawfull Trial of the Teachers and professed Ministers of this Age and Generation by a friend to Englands Common-wealth for whose sake this is written and sent abroad E. B. Which Book being given me as a piece unanswerable in the conceit of him that gave it me I did ingage my self to answer it I saw it was nothing but revilings and slanders and lies against our Ministers and indeed they are the Buts at which they shoot their Arrowes and the truth is I had answered all the chief grounds alleadged in the said Book against our Ministers before I saw it in answer to John Horwood But for those many Lies in the said Book I shall give answer to some of the chiefest proving them to be grosse Lies and therefore that he who writ the same being a Quaker is not perfect The first of E. B. his grosse Lies against our Ministers is that our Ministers do things contrary to the Spirit of Jesus and they have seen nothing but lying vanities and divinations whereby they seduce the people for Life is promised him though he be wicked and ungodly living in all unrighteousnesse Now I appeal to the Consciences of all that hears this whether this be not a grosse Lie for was there ever any Minister in the worst of times or the worst of Ministers that ever taught such Doctrine or speak such words but how doth this profound Lier prove these words for saith he they tell him that Christ is his righteousnesse to justifie him and then he thinks he needs not turn from his sin and so their hands are strengthned that they cannot turn from their sins By which E. B. doth discover his grosse Ignorance as well as Malice For he doth believe that the Doctrine of free Justification by Christ his righteousnesse is a Doctrine that doth teach peole to live in all unrighteousnesse But doth not this Lier make the Apostle Paul to be a false Teacher and one that had seen nothing but lying Vanities as well as our Ministers seeing the Apostle taught the same Doctrine Now to him that worketh not but beleiveth on him that justifieth the ungodly His faith is counted for righteousnesse Even as David describeth the blessednesse of the man unto whom God imputeth righteousnesse without works for as by one mans disobedience many were made sinners so by the obedience of one that is Christ shall many be made righteous being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Jesus Christ And did not the Apostle John teach the same Doctrine And if