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A51590 The Catholike scriptvrist, or, The plea of the Roman Catholikes shewing the Scriptures to hold forth the Roman faith in above forty of the chiefe controversies now under debate ... / by I.M. Mumford, J. (James), 1606-1666. 1662 (1662) Wing M3063; ESTC R32100 169,010 338

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publick practice and also upon all occasions taught by word of mouth and expressed in written bookes Thus our common law in England though never written by any lawmaker is notwithstanding by dayly practice most faithfully kept and hath been so for so many hundred yeares by the whole Nation diffused And in this manner the Church diffused keepeth in perpetuall practice and delivereth to her children as infallible truth what was first delivered unto her by commission from God either in writing or by word of mouth The other way of making and delivering Laws is to call togeather the represētative body of the Community So here in England our statute laws are made not onely by the King nor onely by the Parlament but by the order both of King and Parlament And what is thus enacted is the decree of the Natiō representative Now as the represētative of our nation is the King and Parlament so the Church Representative is the chiefe Pastour thereof togeather with a Lawfull generall Councill And the definitions and decrees set forth by their authority be called the definitions and the decrees of the Church Representative All such definitions we Romā Catholicks hold infallible Whither the definition of a Councill alone defining without their chiefe Pastour or the definitions of the chiefe Pastour alone defining without a Councill be infallible or no there be severall opinions amongst us in which we do and may varie without any prejudice to our Faith which is not built upon what is yet under opinion but upon that which is delivered as infallible and we all unanimously hold that to be so which the universall Church Representatiue consisting joyntly of the chiefe Pastour of the sayd Church voting in and with a Generall Councell not that this Representatiue made wholy of men is not of its owne nature subject to errour For this we never affirme And so our adversaries say nothing at all to the purpose whilst they labour to proue this Let thē disproue if they can and that out of Scripture alone that which we say to witt that this Church Representatiue is infallible meerly and purely by the speciall assistance of the Divine Provedence always affording to his Church a sufficient measure of the spirit of truth to lead her into all truth And that he is evcr so surely resolved to do this that no sinns of his Church shall ever hinder him from doeing of it as is most expressly delivered by God himselfe Psalm 89. in the words cited by me at large Point 3. n. 3. Which place the Reader shall find most convincing to prove that notwithstanding all the sinns that shall euer happen in his Church the sunne and moone shall sooner faile then God will faile to provide a successour in Christs throne to governe his Church in the profession of truth so as his faithfulnes shall not faile nor none of his words be frustrated which you shall see delivered again and again in the ensueing places of Scripture All which to the number of thirty I gather to fully because the Protestants exclaime againest nothing more then the Churches claime to infallibility which D. Ferne calls The very bane of Christendome though it be the very ground worke of Christianity For all interpretation of Seripture is fallible if the interpretation of the Church be fallible euen then when she hath carefully conferred Scripture with Scripture 2. And to avoide confusion I will divide these thirty Texts into these three severall sorts The first sort shall containe eyther such as command vs absolutly to follow and obey the Church in such a māner as would wholy misbeseeme God to commaund vs if she could thrust errours vpon vs for Divine verities or such Texts as theach vs to relie more vpon the Church then could prudently be done if she could teach errour The second sort shall containe a multitude of such glorious expressions made every where of the Church as would be most emptie and truthlesse if the Church should ever prove a Mistris of errours and presse them on her children for Divine verities The third and last sort shall be such Texts as plainly affirme Truth to be still taught in the Church and to be intailed vpon her promising she shall not revolt from it but stand still a true piller and ground of Truth 3. Of the first sort of Texts we haue these by which eyther God commaundes vs vniversally to follow his Church or speakes that of his Church which could not be delivered as it is if this Church could erre For example how could God glorie in the multitude of such as follow his Church if by so doeing they should be led into errour And yet Isaias 2. God seemes to glorie in the multitude of those who confidently resort to the Church as to a Mistris of assured Truth to be instructed by her saying v. 3. Let us goe vp to the mountaine of our Lord and he wil teach us his wayes and we shall walke in his pathes and he shall judge among the natiōs Behold Christ erecting a Court or tribunal in his Church to judge amōg natiōs ād decide all their cōtroversies which must needs suppose obediēce to be yeilded to this judgmēt Yea the same Prophet adds c. 54. v. 17. that No weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper and every tongue resisting thee in judgment thou shalt condemne And the Prophet there from the beginning manifestly speakes of Christs Church Thirdly Isaias Ch. 60.12 The Nation and Kingdome that will not serve thee shall perish Vnder paine of perishing the Church must be obeyed Whence Fourthly Ezech c 44. v. 23. They that is the Priests shall teach the people what is between a holy thing and a thing polluted and the difference between clēane and vncleane They shall shew them and when there shall be controversie they shall stand in judgment and shall judge according to my judgments This being their office the peoples office must needs be not to judge them but obey them 4. Whence Fiftly Christ Matt. 18.17 commands all to obey the Church vnder paine of being held here on earth as Publicās and Heathens and of haveing this sentence ratifyed in heauen Tell the Church sayth he and if he will not heare the Church let him be vnto thee as a Heathen and a Publican Amē I say vnto you whatsoever you shall bind on Earth shall be bound in heaven and whatsoever you shall loose vpon earth shall be loosed also in heaven Here you see obedience to be yeilded vnder paine of being held as a Publican or an Heathen and this sentence to be ratified in heaven Now if the Church could erre in theaching for example that Christ is truly present in the Sacrament and hence oblige all to adore him there in as much as they adore him in heauē and could oblige them to this vnder paine of being held as Publicans and Heathens ād held so as well in heaven as vpon earth surely this cānot be an errour
that knows God heareth us 9. Tenthly In declaring the true meaning of the true Scriptures the practise and doctrine of the Church is necessary to be followed as a certaine Guide For example When Christ sayd Doe this in remembrance of me He did impose sayth the Church a true commaund to doe so Yet though Christ no lesse cleerly sayd Iohn 13.14 That we ought to wash one anothers feete for I have given you an example that as I have done So you allso should doe He did not impose sayth the Church any commaund obliging vs to wash one anothers feete For though he sayd we ought to wash one an others feete yet by the practise and doctrine of the Church it is assuredly declard to vs that these words of Christ containe no precept though the former do 10. Eleventhly The same Apostle in his first Epistle Chap. 2.19 after that concerning Heretikes he had sayd They went out from us He turnes his speach to those who still remained in the Church subject and obedient to it and of them he sayth But you have the unction from the Holy one and know all things To witt the spirit of truth residing in the Church to teach her all truth maketh you who are guided by the Church to know all things necessary for your information and instruction 11. Twelfly It is grounded in this infallibility of the Church that her Prelates may exact obedience of her Children in captivating theyr understanding to the faith which she by commission from Christ delivereth unto them 2. Cor. 10.4 For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal but mighty through God casting downe Imaginations or Reasonings and every thing that exalts it selfe against the knowledg and bringing into captivity All understanding unto the obedience of Christ and haveing in a readines to revenge all disobedience So S. Paul But it is most irrationall to say God should impower his Church to force men to follow a Church which being fallible must needs confesse that she may deceive you and enforce you to follow errors Yet this in a Church haveing the infallible assistance of the Holy Ghost is most rationall For there you are to your apparent good enforced to follow truth in place of such error as might be most hurtfull to you Thirteenthly The same S. Paul tells vs that God out of an expresse intention which he had to keepe vs from all wavering and vnsetlement in faith resolved so to assist the Governours of his Church that we might securely relye upon them For Ephes 4 11. He gave some Apostles and some Prophets and other some Evangelists and other some Pastours and Teachers for the perfecting of the Saints for the worke of the ministery for the edifying of the Body of Christ untill we all come into the unity of faith To what end all this to the end that we hence forth be no more Children tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine by the sleight of men and cunning craftines from which his Providence had not thus secured vs vnles these our Teachers had beē infallible whē defining in a lawfull councill or proposing what is universally taught by them 12. The second sort of Texts proving the infallibility of the Church conteines such glorius Titles given her or such admirable things spoke by Gods own mouth of her as must needs be vain empty and truthles words if the Church ever prove to be a Mistris of errors obtruding them to her Children for divine verities First Psal 132.13 Our Lord hath chosen Sion he hath chosen it for an habitation unto himselfe This is my rest for ever and ever Here will I dwell because I have chosen it Now Christs dwelling place as S. Paul tells vs is his visible Church 1. Tim. 3.15 That thou mayest know how to converse in the house of God The Church of the liveing God He could not be taught how to converse in an invisible Church he speakes then of the Church visible Farr be it from this house to be a store house of errors For how then could it be Christs desirable Habitation and his rest for ever and ever 13. Again Isa 54.4 Feare not for thou shalt not be ashamed neyther be thou confounded for thou shalt not be put to shame What greater shame or confusion to a Church which should be the Pillar and ground of truth to see herselfe growne now to professe open superstition Idolatry and other pernicious errors in whole swarmes How then is that true which follows 14. Thirdly Isai 60.15 I will make thee an eternall excellency a ioy of many generations Fourthly v 18. Thou shalt call thy walls saluation our Lord shall be unto thee an everlasting light Thy Sunne shall goe downe no more and thy Moone shall be no more diminished because our Lord shall be thine everlasting light Words manifestly spoken not of the Elect but of the visible Church on earth even from the beginning of the Chapter for v 10. he tells how Kings should minister to her and how he had struck her when she was the Synagogue in his indignation Which words cannot be understood of the elect or the invisible Church and so he goes still on speaking 15. Fiftly In the like sense Chap. 62. v. 3. Thou shalt be a crowne of glory thou shalt be no more called forsaken as thou wert when thou wert the Synagogue but thou shalt be called my delight in her And sixtly to secure her from all error contrary to his will he adds v. 6. Vpō thy walls Hierusalem I have appointed watchmen And how careles soever thy be by theyr owne nature yet by my continuall assistance all the day and all the night for ever they shall not hold theyr peace To witt by crying downe errours For they had better have held theyr peace that preached publickly errours every where And v. 12. Thou shalt be called a Citie sought for and not forsaken And yet Protestants say they did laudably forsake every visible Church vpon earth by adhering to Luther and his followers who did separate themselves from all Churches visible in the whole world openly professing that as then there was no one Church on earth worth seeking for and so they did not joyne themselves in Communion with any Church then vpon earth but pretended to returne to the Primitive Church as it was above a thousand yeares before which is to say that for this whole last thousand yeares the Church was a Citie forsaken and that for so long her Communion was not to be sought for 16. Seventhly There is a very convincing text to prove the Church to be by divine Providence assuredly provided of faithfull Pastours and Governors Ierem. 33. v. 25 If I have not put my Covenant to night and day and laws to the heaven and earth then will I cast away the seed of Iacob and David my servant that I doe not take from his seed Princes to be Rulers over the seed of Abraham Isaac
and Iacob So that we shall be as sure not to faile of faithfull Princes and Governors in the Church for none but such as are truely faithfull can be truely sayd to be the true sonnes of Iacob and David As we are sure to have night and day the heaven turning over vs and the earth standing still vnder vs. 17. Eeightly The Prophet Ezech. Ch. 34.22 I will save my flock and it shall be no more into spoile But what spoile would that scabb of error make over all Christs flock if it so infected it all as Protestants say it did yea they will have even Idolatry it selfe the most deadly murraine to have infected the whole Church this last thousand yeares and more 18. The third and last sort of Texts to prove this infallibility containe such as plainly say that God will still direct his Church to follow truth or that it shall not revolt from the truth but be a most direct way to the truth that the spirit of truth shall be as it were entailed vpon the doctrine of the Church with which Church this spirit shall ever abide teaching her all truth So first Isa 61.8 I will direct theyr worke in truth and I will make an everlasting Covenant with them of preserving this never fayling truth Secondly Behold how plaine and direct a way to truth is promised the Church of Christ Isa 35. v. 5. Then shall the eyes of the blind be opened c. And a high way shall be there and it shall be called the way of Holynesse the Holy Catholicke Church the way-faring men though fooles shall not erre there in It is therefore a way infallibly leading to truth Thirdly the same Prophet Chap. 59. v. 20. There shall come a Redeemer to Sion and to them that shall returne from iniquity in Iacob sayth our Lord. As for me this my Covenant with them My spirit that is in thee and my words that I have put in thy mouth shall not depart out of thy mouth nor out of the mouth of thy seed nor out of the mouth of thy seeds seed from this present and for ever With what clearer words could the spirit of truth be entailed vpon the Church present in each age or be more clearly said to Reside ever in her mouth with which she delivers all her doctrine 19. Fourthly Most clearly Ier. 32.39 I will give them one heart and one way that they may feare me for ever I will make an euerlasting Covenant with them that I will not turne a way from them but will putt feare in theyr hearts that they shall not depart from me Note I pray these words I will putt my feare in theyr hearts that they shall not depart frō me Wherefore they did not revolt from him they did not depart from him Fiftly no lesse fully speakes the Prophet Ezech. 37.24 My servant David King over them and there shall be one sheapheard over them all They shall walke in my judgment and observe my statutes and do them Moreover I will make a Covenant of peace with them it shall be an everlasting Covenant with them and I will set my Sanctuary in the middest of them for ever more How fully is all this spoken of a visible Church haveing one theapherd over all Yea the very Heathens shall know who they be as there is sayd Sixtly that according to the Prophet Micheas Ch. 4.5 All people will walke every one in the name of his God and we will walke in the name for our Lord God for ever Which they doe not who walke in a labyrinth of grosse errors for a thousand yeares togeather it followeth I will make Her who was cast of a strong nation and the Lord shall reigne over the from hence forth and for ever 20. Seaventhly Matth. 16.18 The gates of Hell shall not prevaile against it If Hell could ever come to make the Church a Mistris of errours so as to hold them forth for divine verities so many ages togeather the gates of Hell should highly prevaile against her Now I pray note that for many ages there were no Christians which were not eyther manifest Hereticks and held so by the Protestants themselves or which did not as all Roman Catholicks now doe worship and adore Christ as much vnder the shape of bread in the Eucharist as they worship him sitting at the right hand of his father If this be Idolatry the gates of Hell have prevailed against the Roman Church yea and against the Churches in Greece in Armenia in Aethiopia c. who all ever since they were Christians have held this our doctrine and doe still hold it though they adde a world of other errors Where then shall the Protestants find Christ a Church against which the gates of Hell have not a vast long time togeather prevailed They must eyther be forced to make Christ false in this his doctrine or to confesse our doctrine true If it be not how was this Covenant everlasting as hath been so often sayd in the now cited Texts and allso the Text following in which Christ made the everlasting Covenant formerly promised to be made Eightly S. Iohn Ch. 14. v. 16. And he will give you an other Paraclete that may abide with you for ever the spirit of Truth whome the world knows not but you know him because he dwells with you and shall be in you Now the Apostles not being to be for ever and the spirit of Truth being promised for ever we cannot but say that the promise of this spirit of Truth is made also to the successours of the Apostles the Governours of Christs Church to abide in them and be in them as the spirit of Truth directly opposite to the spirit of errour So ninthly Iohn 16.12 Many things I have to say unto you but you cannot beare them now hence appeares how weighty those thinghs were but when the spirit of Truth cometh he will guide you into all Truth To private persons the Holy Ghost is given as the spirit of sanctification but to the Church he is given as the spirit of Truth guiding her into all Truth and so directly excluding all errour from her 22. Tenthly that convincing place of S. Paul shall end all these Texts 1. Tim. 3.15 where speaking of the visible Church in which he teacheth Timothie how to Converse the speakes thus That thou mayst know how to behave thy selfe in the house of God which is the Church of the liveing God the Pillar and ground of Truth Can I leane more assuredly then vpon the Pillar of Truth Can I even wish to have a surer ground then the ground of Truth And yet such a ground is the Church acknowledged in this Text if it be not perverted by such interpretations as be the inventiōs of mē but of men vnable to confirme theyr interpretation by any Text clearer thē this Here thē behold we have produced no fewer thē thirty texts for the infallibility of the Church Whereas not halfe so
and how exceeding visible must be the number of the people who are visibly to be ruled fedd and taught And yet again v. 25. If I have not set my covenant between night and day and laws to heaven and earth surely I will allso cast of the seed of Iacob and of David my servant that I take not of his seede Princes of the seede of Abraham Isaac and Iacob These Levites and Priests shal not be so by birth but they shall be taken out of Italians Africans Grecians the Ilands as Isaias sayth in his last Chap. v. 21. Though your Bible did not interpret the Hebrew names of the Countries These Texts then manifestly tell the perpetuall succession of Priests and Pastours in Christs Church so that we are no lesse assured of haveing lawfull Princes in the Church lawfully still governing the same then we are assured of haveing night and day and the heavens moveing above us and the earth standing under us A point much to be noted yet we may confidently say no Church no Church but the Roman can doe this 6. Ezechiel Chap. 17.22 Thus sayth our Lord. And I will take the marrow of the high Cedar and will set it and will plant it upon a mountaine a mountaine high and eminent On the high mountaines of Israël will I plant it and it shall shoote forth into a budd and shall yeild fruit and it shall be into a great Cedar and all Birds and every foule sball dwell under the shaddowe of the boughes thereof and shall there make theyr nests Behould Christs Church which in her beginning was but a small graine of mustard seede now growne up to the greatnes of such a Cedar as this is And not growne and growne untill at last she was growne quite invisible Memorable is that Text Chap. 36.25 And I will powre out upon you cleare water and you shall be cleansed from all your contaminations and from all your Idolls will I cleanse you and give you a new heart and will put a new spirit in the middest of you and will by my grace make that you shall walke in my precepts and keepe my judgments and doe them Before we goe farther I pray take speciall notice that the Church by the grace of Christ is freed from feare of being abandoned because she did at any time grow to forsake Gods judgments for he will still give her grace to keepe them In that day that I shall cleanse you from all your iniquities and shall make the Cities to be inhabited and shall repaire the ruinous places and the desert land shall be tilled and they shall say This land untilled is become a garden of pleasure And v. 37. I will encrease them with men like a flock as the flock of Hierusalem in her solemne feasts in which feasts many thousand men gathered out of every howshold of that nation did use to goe up to Hierusalem so shall the desert Cities be full of flocks of men How can universality and a most visible numerosity be more fully expressed when even the desert places shall be filled as Hierusalem was thronged and crowded in the solemnityes thereof Daniel Chap. 2. v. 35. makes the Church of a litle stone grow into a moutaine filling the whole earth how ridiculously then do you tell me you can scarce see it for this 1000. yeares before Luther 7. Micheas Chap. 4.1 And it shall be in the later end of the dayes 1. Io. 2.18 the time of the new Testament is called the last howre there shall be the mount of the howse of our Lord prepared in the topp of mountaines and high above all the hills what more visible and people shall flow unto it and many nations shall hasten and shall say Come let us goe up to the mountaine of our Lord and to the howse of the God of Iacob c. And v. 7. I will make her that labours into a mighty nation and our Lord will reigne over them from this time now and for ever So that from this time now and for ever the Church was promised still for all ages to be a mighty or strong nation Never a small invisible unknowne company 8. Zacharias Chap. 14. v. 8. And it shall be in that day liveing waters shall issue forth of Hierusalem halfe of them to the east sea and halfe of them to the last sea in summer and winter shall they be and our Lord God shall be King over all the earth and in that day shall be one Lord and his name shall be one And by and by he tells us at large even to the end of the Chapter how all nations shall be accursed that come not up to adore in his Church A manifest signe of her pepetuall purity in Doctrine For how would God lay such curses ad plagues upon men for refusing to follow the Church erring 9. Malach. Chap. 1.11 tells us the Church shall be extended as farr as the sun beames among the Gentills From the rising of the sun even to the goeing downe thereof great is my name among the Genrills and in every place there is sacrificing and there is offered a cleane oblation because my name is great among the Gentills sayth the Lord of Hosts Behould the true Church all the world over offering a pure and gratefull sacrifice 10. The places of the new Testament are more knowne as that the Church by reason of her continuall university is A Citie upon a Hill still to be seene from all places A Candle upō a candlestick as well seene to the whole world as a cādle to the whole Roome in which it burnes The Apostles are sent to preach to all Nations The litle mustard seed grows to be the bighest of all plants like the Cedar in Ezechiel chap. 17.22 S. Peters nett is even broken with the taking of fish c. But because the new Testament writes no farther then the Acts of the Apostles and contained but small part of them the subsequent conversion of the multitude of Nations of the strenghth of Gentils and of all the Kings of the earth as the above cited Texts declare is to be taken out of historie in which manifestly the truth of all that was foretold doth appeare But all this wholy and intirely was performed by the Roman Church onely that is by such as have beene knowne to have joyned in Communion with her If you say the Roman is not the true Church heere foretold by the Prophets then I pray ponder well how impossible it is for you upon earth to find any other Church to which those manifold Prophecies with any shew of probality can be applied THE FIFT POINT Of the infallibility of the Church and consequently of her fitnes to be judge of controversies 1. NOte that in two manners or wayes things of beleefe and practice may be delivered by a community The first is whē such things once received by the sayd Community are perpetually retained by the same in all places by the
For then in heaven this sentence would never be ratified And tell me not that this texts speakes of private differēces betweene brother ād brother though I denie not but this is also true in such differences as belong to the Court or Tribunall of the Church yet hence evidently follows that this Text doth much more concerne those differences in point of Religion between brother and brother Both because these doe more properly belong to the Court of the Church and to her Tribunall as also because when scandal and offence is giuen to our brother in point of heresie tending to the seduction of his soule our brother seeing this soule-murthering sinne broached to his owne ruine ād to the eternall ruine of his brother hath farre greater reasō in this case thē in any other to tell the Church his mother to whome in this difference aboue all other differences it properly belongeth to looke to the safety of her childred For this is an offēce ād scandal to the whole brotherhood of all Christianity Therefore in these points of highest concernement we are most bound to heare the Church vnder paine of being accounted Publicans and Heathens and of haueing this heauie sentence ratified in heauen 5. Sixtly Matt. 23.1 Then Iesus spake to the multitudes and to his Disciples saying Vpon the chaire of Moyses haue sitten the Scribes and Pharises by which sitting with lawfull succession they as wicked as they were are knowne to be lawfully authorized Prelats all therefore whatsoever they shall say unto you observe and do Behold here a precept of obeying in all whatsoever And therefore behold a precept which could not be givē if that which is delivered by publicke authority of the Church were not secured from error in all whatsoever 6. Sevently The first and best Christians did practically acknowledge theyr beleefe of the infallibility of the Church For to have a decision of the most important Controversies Act. 15.2 they appointed Paul and Barnabas to go up and certaine others of the rest to the Apostles and Priests unto Hierusalem upon this question And the Church assembled the first Councill in which though this Councill were assisted with the Holy Ghost yet there was made a great disputation v. 7. And then the definition of the Church came forth in these words It seemeth good to the Holy Ghost and us v. 28. Other lawfull Councills knowing the Holy Ghost allso promised to them do vse to set forth theyr definitions with the same words and this most agreable to Scripture For Iohn 15. v. 26. When the Paraclete cometh whom I shall send from my father the spirit of truth he shall give testimonie of me and you shall give testimonie Marke this conjunction of he and you He the the spirit of truth and you Governers of my Church so that you in giveing testimony may freely say It seemeth good to the Holy Ghost and us 7. Eightly It is cleere out of Scripture that the first Christians were so fully possessed with the beleefe of the infallibility of the Church that they would beleeve nothing but what thy knew conformable to her doctrine S. Paul was a Scripture-writer and so great an Apostle and yet he sayeth of himselfe Gal. 2.1 Then after fourteene yeares I went to Hierusalem again not meerly to satisfie a vaine fancie of some particular men but I went up according to revelation and conferred with them the Ghospel which I preach among the Gentills But I conferred severally or a part with them that seemed to be something least perhaps I should runn or had runn in vain So that he thought all his fourteen yeares preaching and allso his future preaching might come to be in vaine vnlesse even his doctrine were made known to be approved by the Church as wholy conformable to the Church So much in these goulden dayes were the first Christians taught to relye vpon the Church which had been imprudence if she had been fallible Yet we must not thinke that then they did apprehend that the approbation of the Church did adde any degree of truth to his doctrine as it doth not add any degree of truth to the Scripture or pretend to have power to change or correct true Scripture And so S. Paul sayth v. 6. For to me they that seemed to be some thing added nothing For as the toutchstone adds no value to the gold but onely evidently manifesteth which is true gold which not so the Church as then did only manifest infallibly the truth of what he had preached So allso the Church as now doth only manifest to vs that such and such Bookes be the true word of God such and such be not such be true copies such not c. But the word of God hath its true worth from it selfe and not frō the Church as the gold hath its being true gold from it selfe and not from the toutchstone So when Catholiques say with S. Aug. Cont. Epist fundam c. 5. I would not beleeve the Ghospell unlesse the authoritie of the Church moved me they doe not meane that the Church can adde or take away from the truth of any true Scripture but they meane that by her definition as by a Sure touchstone it is now manifestly assured vnto them that such a booke is true Scripture and such not And as the orall preaching even of such an Apostle as had been a Scripture writer might have been in vain without this approbation so allso might his writings have been in vaine Whence we see that his Epistle vnto the Hebrews was not known or acknowledged as Gods word vntill the Church approved it If the Scripture writer himselfe teacheth in vaine without this approbation much more will his writings teach in vaine 8 Ninthly The Church is to be followed by vs as an assured approver or reprover of spirits and consequently as infallible Iohn 1.4 My dearest beleeve not every spirit but prove the spirits if they be of God then v. 6. We are of God he that knows God heares us Pastours of Church he that is not of God heares us not In this we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of errour Here S. Iohn expresly meanes to give to posterity a standing Rule to know a true spirit from a false one To witt By the hearing of us or not hearing of us This could not be a Rule to vs who live after the Apostles if by hearing us he onely meant the Apostles and not theyr successours Yea he could not meane onely the Apostles For the other Apostles were all dead when he wrote this Wherefore the true sence of S. Iohn is In this we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of errour if they heare us Pastours and Governours of the Church Not that each one of these Pastours and Governours a part can say to any one heare me vnlesse he teach that which all the rest are sufficiently knowne to teach but they in a Generall Councill may most truely say Heare us He