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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A93655	The opening of Master Prynnes new book, called A vindication: or, light breaking out from a cloud of differences, or late controversies. Wherein are inferences upon the Vindication, and antiqueres to the queres; and by that, the way a little cleared to a further discovery of truth in a church-order, by a conference or discourse. / By John Saltmarsh, preacher at Brasteed in Kent. Published according to order.	Saltmarsh, John, d. 1647.	1645 (1645)	Wing S493; Thomason E305_22; ESTC R200328	25,183	50

converting Ordinance lest otherwise it prove impertinent or ineffectual for if the close Hypocrites be finally impenitent ones God reckons for a greater sin if not yet it is no more impertinent then the Word is to all the children of God who yet never partake truly of it till converted Thirdly That the distinction of his into the first conversion from Paganism to Faith and secondly from a formall Faith to a true sincere Faith in Jesus Christ which is the corner Stone in his building is a distinction and certain degrees which we have not in any such notion in the Word nor if it were doth it appear that the Scriptures place administration upon the bottom of any such distinction though he doth it But suppose I grant it yet a formal profession then as he contends for and many other was not such as is now since Kingdoms were Christianized but a profession then was according to the Rule of evidence till the contrary appeared as in all the first gathered Churches as in Simon Magus Ananias c. And formal profession then was as much as a kinde of powerful profession now for then it was persecution to take up an Ordinance or name of Christ and now it is faction on the Law of the Land as well as the Law of the God to professe Christ neither were the whole Counsels of the Spirit of Christ brought forth then to make up the rule of evidences as afterwards but they were brought forth by degrees till the whole Scriptures of the New Testament were finished And we are now to take the whole Counsels of God concerning Administrations as laid down in the whole New Testament and not by parcels though so much as they did professe in the first time of gathering were rule enough then to them when no more was revealed yet not to us now who have a full Gospel for our learning And this mistake or want of just consideration of times and Scriptures is the ground of all the mistakes Vindication Fol. 41. Why should not the Sacrament do the like since Gods Spirit equally breathes and works in all his Ordinances and may and doth regenerate and beget Grace in mens souls Inference Whence we may infer That it is lawful according to this Principle to beleeve That if one Ordinance convert any other may whether God hath instituted so or no We know the Lord hath appointed and ordered every Ordinance to its nature kinde and use and Gods institution is to be the rule of our believing and reasoning and practising not because such a thing works so therefore any other thing works so as that thing works The Author himself reasons against this in another place and that there is no right inference but in things of the like kinde and under the like precept as thus The Word is able to convert therefore all Preaching and Prophesying is able to convert but not therefore the Sacraments can convert Vindication Fol. 41. The Sacraments are by all Divines whatsoever and the very Directory pag. 52. ever enumerated among the means of Grace and Salvation Why then should they not be the means of converting Inference Whence we may infer That it is warrantable to expound Divines and the Directory contrary to their intent and meaning and to infer conclusions from them to prove things which are not onely very disputable but unwarrantable as far as any Scripture makes appear either in any plain precept or president and especially to turn the Directory being a Publike form made by the Assembly so much against their sense and meaning as appears by divers of their judgements of late is an attempt much like that of expounding a Law or Ordinance of Parliament in a private sense not in their own and this quotation of a Directory in this kinde is enough to make it all questionable and to draw on a necessity of a publike interpretation upon it Vindication Fol. 41 42. That receiving Sacraments is usually accompanied with effectual means as serious examinations solemn searching out of all open and secret sins with confession contrition humiliation prayers of pardon secret purposes and vows sundry pious and soul-ravishing meditations of Gods Mercy exhortations admonitions by the Ministers And why is not the Sacrament a more fit and apt Ordinance to regenerate convert ungodly and scandalous sinners then the bare Word preached Inference Whence we may infer That there are certain preparations and qualifications in men meerly unregenerate which are here lifted up into something more then natural or carnal workings or filthinesse of the flesh as prayers for pardon of sin pious and soul-ravishing meditations with humiliation contrition confession c. Now I would fain know what there is in man before the glorious light of Jesus Christ hath opened his eyes and brought him out of prison out of darknesse into light What kinde of prayers can such make What pious meditations can such have of Gods mercy in Christ What contrition is there in such What humiliation Without faith it is impossible to please God and the carnal minde is enmity against God nor is it subject to the Law of God nor indeed can be and they that are in the flesh cannot please God What is all this then of prayers When as the prayers of the wicked are abominable What are all those flourishes and noise of vows and purposes and contrition and meditations of an unregenerate man when they all are but glorious sins Do men gather Grapes of Thorns or Figgs of Thistles Why should nature be made proud with these expressions And any ground laid for boasting And whereas it is said that the Sacrament is a more apt means to convert then the bare Word preached we may infer some derogating and diminution or lessening implyed here of the Ordinance of the Word or Ministery because it is said Then the bare Word as if so be that the Word were a bare word when it comes in the power of salvation to regenerate when the Spirit quickens it and makes it a Word of truth of grace the power of God unto salvation and we see the word or ministery it self is called The Preaching of faith The ministery of reconciliation The Sacrament is not called so anywhere though no lesse glorious neither And Christ and his Apostles and Disciples went every where preaching the Word but not administring the Sacrament but onely there where the ministery of the Word had first brought them under the power of the Gospel-Order and Rule for Ordinances of a more spiritual institution Vindication fol. 42. That because we behold Christs death and passion more visibly represented to our eyes and hearts in the Sacrament and remission of sins more sensibly applied to us then in any other Ordinances therefore it is certainly the most powerful Ordinance of all others to regenerate and convert with many Scriptures to prove conversion by representation Inference We may infer That because the Lord hath instituted his signe of bread and wine

THE OPENING OF Master Prynnes new Book called A VINDICATION OR Light breaking out from a Cloud of Differences or late Controversies WHEREIN Are Inferences upon the Vindication and Antiqueres to the Queres and by that the way a little cleared to a further discovery of TRUTH in a CHURCH-ORDER by a Conference or Discourse By JOHN SALTMARSH Preacher at Brasteed in Kent Published according to Order London Printed for G. Calvert at the signe of the Black Spred-Eagle at the West-End of S. Pauls 1645. To the Honourable Phillip Skippon Major General of the Army raised for the King and Parliament under the Command of Sir Thomas Fairfax General Noble SIR SVpposing you may take the Book called the Vindication by Master Prynne into your hand I desire that this Discourse may be in your other hand as occasion serves If the Lord hath revealed any thing in this Discourse to enlighten the darknesse of this present Controversie it is onely from him who is the Father of Lights who carries on his to a more excellent way till we may with open face behold the Glory of Jesus Christ and be changed from glory to glory Sir The thing I onely contend for is that which the Gospel and Spirit calls for Whatsoever things are pure whatsoever things are honest whatsoever things are of good report Sir The ingagement of private respects which are upon me towards you and being likewise a partaker of some labours of yours in the Lord which are abroad as that of Promises c. The best treasure we have in this life hath drawn this from me The Lord who hath wounded you binde you up and lead you on to the glorious Truths for if I mistake not our Controversie is but this in these times some would walk more close with Christ some can be content like Peter to walk at more distance and follow him afar off and to stand warming themselves with the multitude in the Common-Hall And let the Word judge betwixt us which is of best report Sir Yours in the things of Jesus Christ John Saltmarsh To the Reader SOme Scriptures in difference betwixt the Brethren I leave untouched I would not engrosse anothers Controversie to my self more then I needs must and the present Truth or Light I go by presseth me to do I enter not into this Controversie to make one of either side amongst the learned Antagonists but rather by opening their Difference to themselves and others to draw both them and all of their way whom the Lord will adde to a purer way both of Church and Order I have no Libraries beside me to put into my Margin neither dare I write in the authority of man but of God and not in the words too much which mans wisdom teacheth though I still have more of my self in what I do then I ought It is by way of Conference I have writ and I rather did it that I might the better personate divers to themselves that read it that they may learn to be more peaceable to Brethren of dissenting judgements while I hold them the Glasse If any of the Glory of Christ break out by this Let him have the glory who hath chosen the weak things of the World A DISCOURSE Betwixt two Friends P. C. C Well met I know you are for setling Church-Government and Sacraments P. I tell you we shall never be at any Peace till then till all be setled and the Kingdom rid of these Independents Anabaptists and Brownists C. Be not so hot will you call in your Neighbours to quench your house when it is on fire and when all is done give them a beating for their pains the Tribes did not thus with one another the Reubenites and the other would not rest in the Land which the Lord gave them till the Lord had given their Brethren rest as he had given them P. I tell you they are called a company of Hereticks and Schismaticks in every Book and Pamphlet that comes abroad I am sure men of understanding and learning and many an ancient Professor hath no better a name for them C. Yea I perceive so much but the railings and evil-speakings prevail not with me against any but their own Authors For the wisdom which is from above is first pure then peaceable and the Angels which are greater in power and might bring not railing accusation but the Lord rebuke thee even the Lord And for any Professors you speak on Who were so bitter against the Christians as your ancient and zealous Jews You know the Prophecy Your old men shall dream dreams and your young men shall see visions and the first shall be last and the last first P. What Would you have me speak well of these that so many speak against C. I would not wish you to speak well of any thing but what you are perswaded in from the Word but I would onely desire you not to speak ill though you speak not well the Apostle rebukes those that speak evil of the things they know not But I have many Reasons I shall now acquaint you with if you will but have patience and not upon a notion or name of Heresie and Schism shut up your Windows as against a new light Meteor or some Blazing-Star as too many do we are bidden try the spirits and prove all things Friend be not so discourteous to any notion that is a stranger it is besides the Apostles rule be not sayes he forgetfull to entertain strangers for some have entertained Angels unawares And this is one Reason further till more come we are but coming out of Babylon you and we were but the other day with the vail of Prelacy upon our hearts and we are but in healing like the blinde-man and because yet we see men like Trees shall we therefore judge them to be so and not stay till our eyes be opened that we see better P. Have you no better Reasons to convince me These I confesse are something and I will think on them C. Yea look with a single eye upon their principles and take them in their own single Positions not as the world Prints them or reports them this is much a wanting on these times you know what was said of the Christians to Paul As for this sect every where it is spoken against And I see no reason Why other opinions which have been held by some Author of one opinion should be all charged upon that one for his sake which neither in it self nor any just consequence from it can be proved of any right to belong unto it And if there be any Tares with the Wheat they are of the enemies sowing as Christ said to make us go by and not reap there where the Wheat is so scant and the Tares so many P. But O methinks if things were setled about the Church once C. Yea but how will you settle P. How As it is agreed on C. Agreed on What have you not heard of the new Book

experiences are these I question the truth of all such conversion who have onely such experience as this because that such experience crosses the word and way of the Spirit and those are no right experiences which are not Scripture-experiences But some had not been converted if debarred from it This is a strange assertion against that of the Word The spirit bloweth where and when it listeth and some are called at one hour of the day some at another and how is it clear that the Sacrament converted such or not some other act of the Word at that time or about it Shew me that Christian among so many that can evidence his act of conversion meerly barely singly immediately from the act of communicating and then there is something proved to justifie an experience of conversion at such a time but still not to justifie the Sacrament an Ordinance Conversion and so to be used Vindication fol. 46. Is any Master or Parent so unnatural and sottish to deny his children or servant wholesom meat to feed their bodies And shall any Minister be so irrational or inconsiderate in denying the spiritual food Inference Whence we may infer That the Vindication takes all unconverted persons by this comparison to be alive and spiritually quickned or else it were as he says unnatural sottish irrational to give them food And if they be unconverted as he pleads for then who is so unnatural sottish irrational or inconsiderate as to give them any Men onely hold forth food to the living and not to the dead Vindication fol. 46. Physitians had an errour to deny drink to men in Feavers which murdred Thousands but now they see this deadly mistake and correct it So let not this errour creep into Divinity and Divines in denying the cup to such Feaverish Christians burning in the flames of sin and lust Inference Whence we may infer That there is in the unconverted a spiritual Feaverish thirst after Christ as there is in the sick after drink But oh Doth the same fountain send forth sweet and bitter waters Are there any such spiritually-feaverish desires in souls meerly carnal and unregenerate Can the burning in the flames of sin and lust breath any such heavenly longings Can there be any desires but sinful desires after Christ Can any but a soul like Davids pant after the water-brooks Are the flames of sin and lust like that heavenly fire in the bosom which the Prophet speaks on Do the hearts of any burn within them but when Christ is in their company and when spiritually enflamed by him Are the kindlings of sin like the kindlings upon the Altar Is the fire in the kitchin like the fire in the Temple Are the burnings of hell like the burnings of heaven If not Why are we told of men burning in the flames of sin and lust after Christ The Doctrine is not more unwarrantable then the expression is uncomely Vindication fol. 47. A Peradventure we may receive or do good by such a particular Ordinance or action is a sufficient encouragement for us to adventure on it in other cases let it be also warrantable in such cases where they have at least a probability a possibility a peradventure it may be and a Who knoweth but it may convert Inference Whence we may infer That the sum of all the former Arguments now summed up you see will reach no higher then to a Peradventure or to a may be And whether these be such Scripture-grounds or assurances for administrations of the Ordinances of God I appeal to all the world of believers who knows that May bees and Peradventures are not to be allowed any place in the practical obedience of Christians but clear demonstrative solid and certain Maximes or Principles for Whatsoever is not of faith is sin and He that doubteth is damned and Happie is he that condemneth not himself in what he doth And who knnws not that what is done upon May bees and Peradventures cannot be done of faith nor perswasion Vindication fol. 51. That the Presbytery or Classis may order a Suspension from the Sacrament or any other Ordinances provided that this power be claimed by no Divine Right but by Parliamenry Authority and Humane Institution Inference Whereby we may infer That what is not to be warranted in the Word yet if Humane Authority will undertake it it shall not be excepted against by the Vindication But where is there that Authority that will adventure so far to make up any thing in spiritual Administrations that there is no Spiritual nor Scripture-warrant for I am sorry to see the Vindication set the Parliamentary Authority so neer to Humane Invention of whom we are perswaded better things then to take the Patronage of any such thing which is not warrantable by the Word but rather to suspend all then to settle any thing so close to the highest Administrations in the Word which is of meer Humane Invention Nay I will prove this to be the very Maxime and practice of that honourable Senate who have therefore rooted out Episcopacy professed to the most high God in a Covenant against all Will-worship and Traditions of men and therefore let us not roll such a golden ball before Authority to put them out of their way after Christ who have followed him so close hitherto both in their searchings in the Word and in their tendernesse of persecution lest they might scourge Christ out of his own Temple and not know it Vindication fol. 57. The practical power of godlinesse is generally more evidently visible and the lives of the generality of the people more strict pious lesse scandalous and licentious in our English Congregations where there hath been powerful preaching without the practice of Excommunication or Suspension from the Sacrament then in the Reformed Churches of France Germany or Scotland Our English Ministers and Prostants generally excel all others notwithstanding their strict Discipline Inference Whence we may infer That the Vindication though it pretend in the general or face of it to be for Presbytery yet it is very clear that in aspersing the Government of all those Reformed Kingdoms where the practice and power of it hath been it secretly wounds the glory of it in the opinion of the world and though it pull not down the Government quite yet it weakens the Posts or Judgements of men on which it stands I name not here the other Texts that the Vindication hath pull'd out of the building of the Presbyterial Government for the taking out the Scriptures are like the pulling out the nalls and pins from the house and a loosning of the frame This I observe because the Vindication professes so for that Government though I suppose many such friends in time might do as much harm if not more then those of the Separation whom he calls their enemies Surely I do believe France Germany Scotland had rather such Books were not writ in their behalf that opens the evil corruption and