Administrations as laid down in the whole New Testament and not by parcels though so much as they did professe in the first time of gathering were rule enough then to them when no more was revealed yet not to us now who have a full Gospell for our learning And this mistake or want of just consideration of times and Scriptures is the ground of all the mistakes Vindication Fol. 41. Why should not the Sacrament doe the like since Gods Spirit equally breathes and works in all his Ordinances and may and doth regenerate and beget grace in mens souls Inference Whence we may infer That it is lawfull according to this Principle to beleeve That if one Ordinance convert any other may whether God hath instituted so or no. We know the Lord hath appointed and ordered every Ordinance to its nature kind and use and Gods institution is to be the rule of our beleeving and reasoning and practising not because such a thing works so therefore any thing works so as that thing works The Author himselfe reasons against this in another place and that there is no right inference but in things of the like kind and under the like precept as thus The Word is able to convert therefore all Preaching and Prophesying is able to convert but not therefore the Sacraments can convert Vindication Fol. 41. The Sacraments are by all Divines whatsoever and the very Directory pag. 52. ever enumerated among the means of Grace and Salvation Why then should they not be the means of converting Inference Whence we may inferre That it is warrantable to expound Divines and the Directory contrary to their intent and meaning and to inferre conclusions from them to prove things which are not only very disputable but unwarrantable as far as any Scripture makes appeare either in any plaine precept or president and especially to turne the Directory being a Publike forme made by the Assembly so much against their sense and meaning as appeares by divers of their judgements of late is an attempt much like that of expounding a Law or Ordinance of Parliament in a private sense not in their own and this quotation of a Directory in this kinde is enough to make it all questionable and to draw on a necessity of a publike interpretation upon it Vindication Fol 41 42. That receiving Sacraments is usually accompanied with effectuall means as serious examinations solemne searching out of all open and secret sinnes with confession contrition humiliation prayers of pardon secret purposes and vowes sundry pious and soul-ravishing meditations of Gods mercy exhortations admonitions by the Ministers And why is not the Sacrament a more fit and apt Ordinance to regenerate convert ungodly and scandalous sinners then the bare Word preached Inference Whence we may infer That there are certaine preparations and qualifications in men meerly unregenerate which are here lifted up into something more then naturall or carnall workings or filthinesse of the flesh as prayers for pardon of sin pious and soul-ravishing meditations with humiliation contrition confession c. Now I would faine know what there is in man before the glorious light of Jesus Christ hath opened his eyes and brought him out of prison out of darknesse into light What kind of prayers can such make What pious meditations can such have of Gods mercy in Christ What contrition is there in such What humiliation Without faith it is impossible to please God and the carnall minde is enmity against God nor is it subject to the Law of God nor indeed can be and they that are in the flesh cannot please God What is all this then of prayers When as the prayers of the wicked are abominable What are all those flourishes and noise of vowes and purposes and contrition and meditations of an unregenerate man when they all are but glorious sins Doe men gather Grapes of Thornes or Figges of Thistles Why should nature be made proud with these expressions And any ground laid for boasting And whereas it is said that the Sacrament is a more apt means to convert then the bare Word preached we may infer some derogating and diminution or lessening implyed here of the Ordinance of the Word or Ministery because it is said Then the bare Word as if so be that the Word were a bare Word when it comes in the power of salvation to regenerate when the Spirit quickens it and makes it a Word of truth of grace the power of God unto salvation and we see the Word or Ministery it selfe is called The Preaching of faith The Ministery of Reconciliation The Sacrament is not called so any where though no lesse glorious neither And Christ and his Apostles and Disciples went every where preaching the Word but not administring the Sacrament but only there where the ministery of the Word had first brought them under the power of the Gospell-Order and Rule for Ordinances of a more spirituall institution Vindication Fol. 4â— That because we behold Christs death and passion more visibly represented to our eyes and hearts in the Sacrament and remission of sinnes more sensibly applied to us then in any other Ordinances therefore it is certainly the most powerfull Ordinance of all others to regenerate and covert with many Scriptures to prove conversion by representation Inference We may infer That because the Lord hath instituted his signe of Bread and Wine in the Supper to his owne end therefore it will serve to any end That we can prove of our owne imagining upon certaine rationall conclusions from Scripture or reason without particular Scriptures authorizing or appointing it to such an end and therefore all these grounds consequences and notions which are formed upon a likelihood and probability are nothing to prove any direct use of the Sacrament to such an end without as I have said a speciall Word Precept or Practise or just Consequence from Scriptures directed to such a proof for else there is scarse any thing but we may reason into a notion of likelihood but faith must have better grounds and not of private interpretation and the Scriptures that are alleadged must not be to prove that things of lively representation may most affect the soul and have done so but that these Scriptures are plainly or powerfully directed by the Spirit of God to prove the very Institution of the Supper to that end which none of those Scriptures prove that are alleadged in Fol. 42. Vindication Fol. 43. That God doth as effectually teach convert and work grace by the eye as eare and therefore were the Sacraments Sacrifices Types Miracles c. Why should not then the visible expressions of Christ in the Sacrament now have the like effectuall converting power Inference We may infer as we have done before That all these are but Why should nots no words of Institution or Authority in the Scripture for it But further the Legall Sacraments c. were carnall and more to the sense and more of representation but these are more
is no better then the first 3. Prove the other Reformed Kingdoms to be Reformed Churches as Churches are taken in the Gospel and their Paterns pure Gospel-paterns which by your owne you acknowledge to be in part prudential or humane as well as Evangelical and Divine and then your reason may have some force in it Till then you see with all you can doe you cannot prove but Christs government was divers years in bringing forth by himself and his Apostles and so by your owne account you ought not to be before them unlesse you assume fuller Revelations of truth then they did Let the Reader judge whether any of these makes for the setting up your government or the taking down my reasons To your last That this Reformation hath proceeded by slow paâ—es and degrees What Would you prove it by its slow proceedings to be Christs Government and therefore to be setled That were a strange kind of reasoning Because Christ proceeded by degrees in giving out the glory of his Kingdom here therefore every thing that proceeds by degrees is Christs Government Here is some kind of Logick indeed as you say but no Scripture as for instance He that saies such a one is a living creature saies truly He that saies such a one is a beast saies he is a living creature Therefore will it follow He that saies such a one is a beast saies truly So He that saies Christs Government proceeded slowly saies truly He that saies your government proceeded slowly saies truly Therefore He that saies your government is Christs government saies truly What have you got now by your Logick Whereas you say in your second Christ gave gifts and qualifications for government I answer If you and your Parishes have such gifts and qualifications as in Ephes 4. 1 Cor. 12. set it up when you please if not what haste Master Ley's Resolution Pag. 26 27. Now to his Rules and Considerations of Prudence The more time saith he for trying spirits the lesse danger to that State c. I answer 1. It is the duty of a State not only to try spirits but to rule them And rather to rule them then to trie them Prov. 29. 15. and the longer they live without the yoke of Discipline the more enormous And for trying all things there is a due proportion of time to be observed Though it hath been the ill hap of our Chureh c. to have the government fluttering on the lime twig at Westminster when it should be on the wing of actuall execution all over the Kingdom 2. He makes it a dangerous matter for the State to involve it selfe into the designes of Ecclesiasticall power But unseasonably applyed to Presbyteriall-government because both Popish and prelaticall power is abjured by it by covenant 3. Whereas he saith There can be no danger in the not too sudden incorporating c. since Moses is not alive c. a new star may arise It is a groundlesse conceit refuted already and for that of Moses c. he bâ—wrayeth his designe to debarre the government for ever and for that of a new star arising it prepares the way for some Barchochebas who pretending to be Jacobs Star mislead the Jews and was called Benchozba the son of a lye Reply You prove against me 1. That people ought to be ruled rather then tried c. 2. That sometime is to be allowed for triall 3. That the government hath been fluttering too long at Westminster 4. That there is no danger to feare the Presbyteriall government which hath abjured Popery c. Dominion by Covenant 5. That some of this is refuted already 6. That my designe is to debarre it for evâ—â— 7. That a new Star is a misleading star To your first I reply It is true in civill government rule there rather then trie But what is that to Church-government or Discipline The rule there is the will of God which is the only rule in government and legislative power in the Church and that is Trie all things before either you rule or be ruled To your second Some time you will allow I see for triall but you ought not to measure and deale out time but by the Standard of the Word and before you call for such quick obedience as you do and as the Apostles did prove your power and truth and conclusions and by such Apostolicall and infallible evidence and then it is our sin if we submit not And let the time you deale out not be like that of States and Armies in their Treaties who are finall and peremptory in the seasons they set You cannot set such time the Spirit breaths when and were it listeth To your third What is that to the present Discipline what the Covenant abjures Covenant and Discipline are two distinct things a Covenant may abjure in word what yet a government may practice indeed Nor is it enough to abjure Popery in grosse but in every part parcell And now having abjured it is not enough to sit down in that satisfaction that we have sworn against Popery but to search out lest we be forsworn in the practice of it Such a duty begins from the time of abjuring and it lies not only upon the State to find out Popery but every one in his own particular is ingaged you and I and every Covenanter and therefore seeing you have ingaged thousands by conscience against Popery and to endeavour c. you are bound to give the same conscience liberty to bring in its result and enquiry else you make it a snare and trouble to Israel and not a Covenant And now I professe here a just and undeniable liberty by Covenant to bring forth all of Popery Prelacy or truth they know To your other Why should ye speak of governments fluttering on a lime-twig at Westminster Sure the State or Parliament may deserve better of any of the Assembly then to be thought their retarders or lâ—me twigs How have they honoured them above their Brethren printing their ingagements to the world before every Sermon calling them into so neere a capacity with themselves though Divines have been unfortunate before and their Predecessours raised in the curtesie and piety of former States and Parliaments into a Law and power above their Brethren which I hope our Brethren will remember and beware of But because I would not wholly interpret you into so dangerous a sense against the State it may be you may call your dissenting Brethren the lime-twig which if you do you are contrary to your own Argument for you argued but lately the slow proceeding into a very warrantable and Scripture-way and will you now marâ—all and defile your Argument with a lime-twig and bewray rather your slow proceeding to have been of constraint then conscience To your other That this is already refuted I say no more but as you have formerly refuted so I have formerly answered To your other That my designe by that of Moses is to
experementally known 15. These Scriptures we have as they are do make a Discovery of such a way of Religion as reason never yet in any age attained to The men of purest reason as your old Philosophers never attained further then the knowledge of something infinite which they did not know and a Religion of humane or morall righteousnesse and purity and some sacrifices of atonement c. And there is not any Religion in the world Jewish or Turkish but they are made up of carnall principles and are founded upon reason and nature but this Gospell Religion hath opened a new way of righteousnesse in one that is both God and Man in a most rationall though infinite way of salvation and a way of Worship crosse to all methods and wates of reason and the world opening new waies by a new Spirit purifying naturall reason into more divine and glorious notions then ever it yet attained bringing in a way of beleeving and placing a Religion upon a spirituall perswasion called Faith which is more proportionable to an infinite God and an infinite way and depth of salvation then reason ever invented viz. for the soule to beleeve upon one even Jesus Christ in whom God hath laid up all love and fulnesse and so for man to become one with him who is God and Man and there cannot be a more rationall way for man to become one with God then by one who is both God and Man 16. That though there be not such glorious powrings out of Spirit and such gifts as Beleevers both may and shall have yet all Beleevers ought to practice so far of the outward Ordinance as is clearly revealed they may 17. That the Scriptures or Gospell of the New Testament being as many hundred years old as from the Apostles even in that Originall we have them no very materiall differences in Copies as it seems and though they have passed through the great Apostacy yet they have not had the power to corrupt them materially in their Originall to advantage their heresies and corruptions which very constant preservation of Truth in the midst of the very Enemies of Truth is both a constant and standing miracle of it selfe and so we need not stay for a Ministery with miracle being we have a Word with miracle which in its matter subject power speaking of God of his Son God and Man of his Spirit the Actor in man from both by waies of outward Ordinances of the depths windings and workings of reason c. is of as much efficacy to perswade as any thing else we can have and the way of the pure Spirit is a more glorious way of operation then any other of a visible sensuall nature And God may be more glorified by quickning and spiritualizing a word and using the spiritually glorious Ministery of that then of man and they are far too low who look for their originall teaching from man and not from the Word and Spirit CONCLUSION I Have drawne out this map of each opinion that your eye may travell over that in an houre which otherwise you might be a yeare in going over Thus each are discovered in a narrow yet full Discovery and I thinke all that are divinely rationall will see no such cause to thinke that each hath attained so far that either they should presume in their degree or look down from the pinacle of an infallibilitie upon each other I have set the strength and weaknes of each opinion before it self that on the one side as it may glory so on the other side it may fear and be humble All I wish now is that we be all so far one at least in infirmity and this Common weaknesse as may be a ground of Common embodying and associating against the Common Enemy or Grand Antichrist as in States when they are at lowest have least factions and when weakest are most peaceable with one another The Gospell or New Testament of JESUS CHRIST proved undeniably to be the very Word of God without Miracles to assure us of the particular duties in it Because there are some men now of more reason then sound belief I cannot but in a spirituall rationally way beare witnesse to our salvation in the written Word 1. IF there were not a Word or Will of God revealed in Lawes and Ordinances written God were worse provided then the Lawgivers of Nations and Kingdomes and the World were left to their owne wils which is esteemed ridiculous in the eyes of all the Nations of the world in their very politick condition 2. The Laws and Ordinances contained in the Word or New Testament beare only the Image of a God in their holinesse purity righteousnesse glory infinitenesse eternity immortality which are all with many more things of like excellency there which are as the beams of light to the Sun or so many things of God revealing God 3. The Word is so tempered into a middle nature betwixt God and man as no Word can be more revealing the most glorious spirituall infinite things from a God in a meane literall figurative comparative significative way to man 4. To have a standing Word as the Gospell is is more for the glory and authority of a God then any ministry of man though with miracles and signs because such a Word where none can joyn themselves as Authors or Parties as in other wayes of dispensation by men men may joyne themselves doth undoubtedly hold forth most of God and of divine Authority and thus to maintaine or preserve a Law or Word in the world is not so much with God as for King and Princes to maintaine Statutes and Lawes in their Kingdomes 5. A Word as the New Testament is may be as well a way and dispensation to an infinite God to make out himself by as any other either of dreame or vision or Revelation or Oracle all being but wayes of a naturall straine and condition no more then the Word 6. The very manner of dispensation or writing is such as hath the authority power wisedome counsels of a God the whole businesse of it being a work discovered to be begun by God and amongst men to let forth the glory of God the mercy love and wisdome of God and the way by the Son of God and Spirit of God and all to be glorified with God and thus treating only of things divine and a work divine in a way divine 7. We must either give up our selves to this Word wholly or not at all and then let the world and experience judge what kind of Religion reason at large unbounded or unenlightened will bring forth by the former paterns of Heathenish and Gentilish Religion 8. Why should it not be thought the most clean and direct way for God to manifest himself to man by Word Gospell and Epistle and so by an infinite and invisible power and hand commend and conveigh it from age to age from generation to generation as well as for men to make out
their art reason knowledge experience into books and words written to their owne and other generations 9. This Gospell of Iesus Christ places Religion upon a more glorious transcendent way to sute with an infinite God then ever any device of man or reason could invent viz. upon faith upon a beleeving or spirituall perswasion wrought by the same God by which men are carried out into depths of infinitenesse and glory no way measurable nor discernable but by this way of beleeving and there could never have been an engine contrived which could have gone from man into God but this of faith by God himself nor more for the advantage of the glory of a God taking all from the creature employing it wholly upon a God 10. There is more reason in this Gospell or New Testament in the way of Religion which it holds forth by Iesus Christ then ever could be thought on by the reason of man as for instance Each mans internall conscience hath a light or law in it which condemnes or accuseth for murther c. Now if there be accusations against whom is the offence committed but against somthing infinite and what way is there more divinely rationall to apply to the justice of such an infinite being on God offended but by one who is both man and God even Iesus Christ So as the mystery of salvation is such as even reason it self cannot contradict or gainsay though it cannot comprehend to leave the world inexcusable in their unbeliefe because it commands them to beleeve in one whom in reason they cannot deny to be a way proportionable betwixt God and themselve for salvation 11. It carries things in such a rare way of mercy of justice of love of piety and as it is a salvation from God to man so it is a salvation managed by one who is God and Man and every thing belonging to it is accordingly mixed or tempered of Word and Spirit of power divine and outward dispensation or ordinance and all this for man who is of a mixed nature of flesh and spirit Thus things are carried in a way of proportion and sutablenesse so full so sutable and compleat and serviceable as the invention of men could never devise 12. It discovers reason to it self in all its workings and wayes in its purity and corruption in its vertues and vices conscience bearing witnesse to the Laws and Commandements of it it purifies and spiritualizeth reason and brings it into such a way of communion with God as the souls that reade it and are exercised in it seem to be new-borne to receive in another nature an immortall and incorruptible seed 13. It manages all the designe of salvation contrary to nature and the world upon contrary principles dispensations and hands by a Person poore humble and crucified for the good by Ministers and Dispensers meane and contemptible Fisher-men Tradesmen c. yet inspired by graces contrary as selfe-deniall humility love to enemies by conditions contrary as weaknesse affliction poverty suffering dying carrying a treasure a comfort a riches a life a glory under all these 14. It is accompanied by continued or standing miracles though miracles of a more spirituall nature as discovery of the counsels and hearts of men as conversion from sin mortification of sin changing natures from evill to good planting in new dispositions inclinations affections into the soul Now if such charges and conversions were in materiall or sensible things as from water to bloud from water to wine how would it astonish Which in spirituals in more wonderfull though only lesse discernable and not to be so sensibly perceived preserved by its very enemies the Roman cruelty of Emperours and Antichristian Traditions 15. It refers the discovery of all Truth in it self to the Spirit of God which no word but the Word of God would do and will not take in men into glory with it self which miracles do which are done by the hand and ministry of man and the Spirit in this way must needs be a more glorious Interpreter of the Will of God then the meer ministery by man and miracles can be by how much it is of a more spirituall nature and it is more excellent to seek things in the Spirit then in any outward dispensation which as it comes more immediately from God so it comes in more immediately upon men and to take in Truth by sense and sight or miracle is rather to know Christ after the flesh 16. Yet after all the Word it self is the best way to bring in evidence and discovery in its 〈◊〉 half to the souls of those that will come under the power â—peâ—atâ—on and experiments of it under the enlightening convictions impressions of it in the reading hearing and meditating of it These things are written that ye may beleeve And they that are thus exercised are above all miracle and are perswaded enough by it self without the help of an outward work 17. To these I adde the testimonies of the most ancient in witnesse of it Dionysius Areopagita thought to live in the times of the Apostles and not daring to take his Divinity any where but from these Scriptures Irenaeus who was in the yeare 180 affirming the fulnesse of these Gospell-Scriptures and accounted them the Pillar of Truth So Tertullian who lived 1400 years since doth accordingly witnesse to their perfection Origen Athanasius Chrysostome Constantine the Great in the first Nicene-Councell with thousands others all along to our own age 18. The Iewes whose very Testament and condition answers to every Prophesie and Gospel-Scripture 19. The many of those most eminently ancient learned and godly who have shed their bloud in testimony of it 20. The power of God going along with it 21. The Confessions of the most learned in that confesse that the Originall Copies are not corrupted but continued pure One Argument from the Nationall Covenant for Liberty of Conscience yet with all subordinate and just obedience to the State ART I. THe first Branch of the Covenant is That we shall sincerely really and constantly c. endeavour c. the Reformation of Religion in the Kingdoms of England c. in Doctrine Worship Discipline and Government according to the Word of God c. ART II. The second Branch of the Covenant That we shall in like manner without respect of persons endeavour the extirpation of Popery c. Superstition Heresie Schism c. and whatsoever shall be found contrary to sound Doctrine c. Now from these I argue 1. Each one is personally and individually bound by the Covenant and in his owne proper conscience is obliged to endeavour a Reformation according to the Word of God and so far to the example of the best Reformed Churches as they are agreeable to that Word I hope no further Now who shall be the Iudge and Interpreter of this Word of God to each mans conscience in the things of God but he who is Lord of the conscience
in the Church And for our plucking it is not plucking but gathering and calling out Your words are of more violence then the Word will beare that is more properly plucking which is a destructive pulling out a bloudy Separation a plucking of Persecution such a plucking as some contend for and would requite our gathering with plucking and take us all not for a mixture of Tares and Wheat but all for Tares You say we gather out the Wheat it is well you observe that we have Wheat amongst us which some of your Brethren will searce allow us and you very hardly Master Ley's Resolution pag. 29 30 31. His other politike consideration is this Our Parties or dissenting Brethren now together and clasped by Interest c. I answer 1. No clasping in the Camp must loose us to division in the Citie 2. Mr. Saltmarsh in his Politike adviseth to represse factions c. 3. The delay hath occasioned a multiplication of Heresies and Schisms 4. Many disposed to division heighten their spirits to contumacie and contempt To that other of his it is possible while time is given opinions may be sooner at peace I answer 1. Possibility is no pleae against probability nay cleare experience that by the Brethrens amiable carriage they have driven on their designe with a politike activitie and gained more by their adversaries slownesse than the goodnesse of their cause To that of his Fire let alone under wood and so to dye out c. I answer 1. Will fire under drie wood quench it selfe or the setling of a Government be as the Bellows 2. The contrarie is plaine by examples of Anabaptists and other Sectaries in Germany whom Luther at first mediated for with Frederick Duke of Saxony but after he was glad to stir up the Princes and people of Germany for extinguishing a common combustion To that of his c. The contentions of Brethren are like the Bars of a Caestle Prov. 18. 19. I answer 1. This is his seale to his politike Aphorisaâ— But will the bars of a Caestle be taken by letting alone We have not found it so in our wars c. Reply To your first That we must not claspe in the Camp and divide in the city You say well we are to agree or clasp both in Camp and Citie and to divide in neither To your second Mr. Saltmarsh in his Politikes I told you before I dare not allow my selfe the priviledge of an Aphorism of light then when it was rather night than day with me as I told you You know Pauls regenerate part or law of his mind quarrelled with the law of his Members so doth mine so Luther Augustine c. To that of delaying occasioning Heresies Whether may not your setling things thus be as great an Heresie as you complaine against Be sparing You may call these Truths which you now call Heresies Paul preached that Doctrine after which before he destroyed To that of many heightning their spirits into contempt Do not aggravate against your Brethren remember your own professed ingenuity in these words I would not excite Authority to needlesse severitie To that of the Brethrens politike advantage on your slow pace and amicable carriage as you say Give not over your amicablenesse for that their policie is no warrant against your dutie and if they be politike blame them in print For my part I hate to see in any too much of man in the businesse of God but if some of the Brethren be politike what is that to the rest who waite for the Spirit in the simplicity of their own But it may be you mistake the advantages and put their encreasing upon Brethrens policie which is the power of the Gospell You know in Christs time many beleeved on him and the people went after him and yet not policie but his power gathered them To that of your fire and drie wood and that your setling a Government would be no bellows Who are the dry wood you meane and what fire and what by the bellows I fit be this that the setling a Government will quench our contentions yea and it may quench more then it ought even something of the Spirit may be quenched by it Persecution may put out many a Candle of the Lords lighting and many a coale kindled from his Altar But take heed there be not more fire in the bellows then in the wood To that of the Anabaptists and Sectaries quenched by Luthers mediation I dare not beleeve your Historian nor take all against them from the Pen of an enemie He that takes the Parliaments battells from an Oxford Pen shall read nothing but Rebellion rather than Religion And me thinks I observe much here in your observation to the contrary We may rather think that Germany is a field of bloud to this day for shedding the bloud of so many consciences for some points of difference And for Luthers mediation against them Look well and tell me how much the Lutheran there have advanced in the Reformation Have they not rather stood like Joshua's Sun where he left them Let England take warning by Germany To that of the Brethrens contentions which are like bars of a Castle and must not then be let alone you say as in our Wars Yea go on take these offended Brethren these Castles in your military way but then let your Warfare be spirituall your weapons not carnall put on the armour of light c. and take them by a Gospel-siege and we are satisfied But it you take them with the power of the Magistrate with swords and staves as they took Christ if you come in this Gospel-Controversie to to take them as the Parliament takes in their Towns and Cities by force of Arms and compulsive Artillery as your instance seems to imply take heed lest you shed more spirituall bloud to that under the Altar that never ceases to cry How long Lord how long Master Ley's Resolution Page 32. To that he saith We have not yet any experience of our new Clergy Answ How can there bee experience of them if there be no government to try them withall Reply So as you will have an hazard run both in State and Church for a new experiment upon the Ministers but sure your Statists will tell you it is not safe trying experiments with State they are too vast bodies for that What thinke you of that Physician that will cast his Patent into a disease to try a cure on him You know the old morall adagie Turpius ejicitur quam non admittitur hospes One is sooner kept out then cast out Master Ley's Resolution Page 32. To that It is not safe trusting a power too far into those hands Answer He need not much feare the government will be so qualified so disposed for the persons that manage it c. Reply These are faire promises It is pitty that government should ever be set up that cannot tell before hand how well it will carry it selfe Oh I
them I had not ventured so far in my Quaere I considered the sad and farall troubles which attended the Magistrates ingagements with the Ministers the bloud which hath been powred out by Nationall compulsion of tender conscâ—eâ—ces and like a spirituall Watchman I could not but blow my Trumpet and give warning And for my comparison or Papists and Prelates I appeal to the world if there be any reproach whether it be not in the Interpreter rather then in the Author But I know no such thing by my Paper And if it be lawfull to draw in consequent conclusions and then father them I could prove you to speake Treason Blasphemy Idolatry Atheisme Heresie nay Independencie which some of your Way thinke worse Aâ—abaptisme Separation which would seeme to be as hatefull to you But I judge you not in any such sort nor had I spoken so far now but in a just Vindication You say You will conclude with my Politicks and upon such Principles as mine Church-government is ordained I have told you my Politicks were written by my dimmer light And if your Government be built upon no better Principles then mine I cannot but be out of conceit with that Government being so far out of conceit with mine own Principles and it makes me think the worse of it because my former Principles fit it so well Those Principles you speak on are partly of Câ—vill power and the Sword and the Dominion or Scepter in the Gospell is more Spirituall You say of my Text in the Revelation Revel 18 1. that as I began so I end with misapplication of Scripture Misapplication is a word sooner writ then proved and my reasons were rather crowded then ordered in my Paper The Scripture was this For the Angell that came down from Heaven hath great power and the earth is lightned with his glory Which Scripture there applyed doth hint to any that will not rather cavill then interpret that my only reason for delay of Government was in this An Angell was yet to come with power and glory or the Gospell would fill the earth with more light â—o as we should not shut up our selves too soon in the dark And now Reader judge whether it be my mis-application or his misinterpretation Spirituall Principles drawn forth gospell-Gospell-Truth is one and the same THat which is only in some parts of it warrantable by the Word is not purely nor in a Scripture-way warrantable For there is not any Will-worship but it hath something from the Patern of the true The Samaritan-worship was coppied after the Jewish and the Jewish when Christ came had Priests and Temple and Sacrifices and was copied by the Law But then there was Traditions and Commandements of men That is pure Gentilism which hath no Image of Gospell nor lâ—gall Truth Antichrist sits in the very Temple of God though rather upon it False Christs call themselves Christs as well as the true The great Image had a head of Gold though feet of Iron and Clay Every Heresie hath a Scripture Word in it But Truth must be all one and the same and Homogeneall not in parts so but all so There is but one Lord one Faith c. Prudence and Consequences are the great Engines of Will-worship THings of Prudence meerly are not to be admitted into the Spirituallway and Gospell-designe Prelacy had its Prudence for every new additionall in Worship and Government And once let Prudence open a doore and then will more of man crowd in then the 〈…〉 of God can keep out Nor is that to be admitted which is so received a Maxime Though not directly yet not repugnant to the Word Christs rule is not such he opposes any Tradition to the Commandements of God Not direct from Scripture is indirect and repugnant though not to the very letter of such words yet to the form and Analogie of truth to the generall Scripture-Law viz. the will of God that nothing shall be added or diminished ye are only my friends saith Christ if ye do what I command you and the Lord will raise you up a Prophet him shall yee heare For if any thing of Prudence is to be let in then something of Tradition for Prudence can make nothing higher noâ— purer nor better mâ—n can but give his own Image to the things â—e makes himself though he make them up of divine materials from Scriptures yet the form none but the Lord himself can give and the form is that which stamps Christs Image upon every Truth Every thing in the Word hath a form that is it is â—uch a thing of truth and not another Nothing but Gods power and will can make a thing Truth his power creates it and his will creates it such a Truth Nothing is agreeable to the Will of Christ but the very Will of Christ The Will of Christ is the only Legislative power in the Gospell Nothing is agreeable to his Will but what he wils every thing is repugnant to his will but what he wils so as this will is the supreme general law indeed the very form or essence of Scripture the Word of God And whatsoever is devised by Prudence though upon Scripture-materials yet being not the work of this will nor having the Stamp or Image upon it is none of Christs but as repugnant as any other Tradition or invention of men And here let us look to that new though old design against Truth the most subtill undiscernable and divinest kind of Will-worship in the world that which some call Scripture-consequence an unwholsome word as it hath been used for under colour of consequence what Conclusions may be promoted What may not Reason draw from Scripture and what may it not fashion like a Truth But consider in Parliament Laws or Ordinances or Commissions is it lawfull to take them and from every part of them to draw out results of our own and when there is but one Law make many subordinate Laws of our own and frame Laws out of Laws and Ordinances out of Ordinances and Commissions out of Commissions No sure But we must keep to that one generall entire litterall Law and Will of the Parliament Is it thus in Laws humane and not much more in Ordinances divine Yea there is the same onenesse entirenesse indivisibility and essentiality of the Truth Nor do I here disapprove any Scripture-consequence if meerly consequent and not formed up into a Law by meere reason for then mâ—n makes Laws from the Laws of God and this is not the least engine that Antichrist hath wrought with The people are Brethren and Saints in Christs Church but in Antichrists Parishioners and Servants VVHat kind of Government is marked out in Scriptures for sitting on the waters or people Christ governs by the people ministerially not over the people authoritatively only and the people being once in his Church-way lose their old capacity for a new and are raised up from people to Brethren to Churches It is a saying
then I see you are forgive me this injury as the Apostle saies if I accounted you better then you desire to be Love hopeth all things and beleeveth all things And Paul it seems was better perswaded of Agrippa then there was cause and quoted some of the Heathen Poets better then they intended them as it seems I have done with you that being the greatest thing you lay to my charge Master Gataker 1 That our Antinomian Free grace is not the same with that of the Prophets in the Old Testament and the Apostles in the New 2 That in saying the Old Testament was rather a draught of a Legall dispensation then an Evangelicall or Gospell-one was to taxe the Ministery of the Prophets for no Free-grace 3 That in saying the Ministers now by the qualifications they preach do over-heat Free-Grace as your poore soules cannot take it doth make the Prophets Iuglers and deluders of the people Answer To your first That our Antinomian Free Grace is not the same with the Prophets and Apostles Why do you tell us of Antinomians of Prophets and Apostles Free-grace It is not the Free-grace of any of these Free-grace is of God in Jesus Christ Prophets and Apostles are but dispencers of it and Ambassadours of it and Ministers of it and yet Ambassadours not in the same habit The Prophets preached Grace in a rough and hairy garment or more Legally the Apostles in a more clear and bright habit in the revelation of the mystery of Christ The Law was given by Moses but Grace and Truth by Iesus Christ I could as easily say Master Gatakers Free-grace and the Legalists Free-grace as he sayes Our Antinomian Free-grace but such words and reproaches make neither you nor I speake better truth To your Second That in saying the Old Testament straine was rather Legall then Gospell taxes the Ministery of the Prophets for no Free-grace That is according to your Inference only Because the Spirit sayes the Law was given by Moses therefore will you put upon the Spirit that Moses taught or gave out nothing but Law Because I say The Old Testament was a Legall ministration therefore do I say there was no Free-grace in it or doe I not rather say Therefore it was Free-grace legally dispenced or preached or ministred Would not such Inferences be bad dealing with the Spirit and will it be faire dealing with me I wonder you who pretend to write against me as having not dealt justly with your sense will deale so unjustly with mine and commit the same sin your self in the very time of your reproving mine You may see what this Logick hath brought you to To deceive your selfe as well as your neighbour Can you cast out my mote and behold a beame in your own eye I have printed all you quoted let the Reader judge from this and compare it with the rest of my Book The whole frame of the Old Testament was a draught of Gods anger at sin And God in this time of the Law appeared only as it were upon tearmes and conditions of reconciltation and all the Worship then and acts of Worship then as of Prayer Fasting Repentance c. went all this way according to God under that appearance And in this straine saith he runnes all the Ministery of the Prophets too in their exhortations to Duty and Worship as if God were to be appeased and entreated and reconciled and his love to be had in way of purchase by Duty and Doing and Worshipping So as under the Law the efficacy and power was put as it were wholly upon the Duty and Obedience performed as if God upon the doing of such things was to be brought into tearmes of peace mercy and forgivenesse so as their course and service then was as it were a working for life and reconciliation Do not these words and termes inserted As it were and in the way and as if and is it were cleare me from such positive and exclusive assertions of Free-Grace as you would make me speak To the Third That in saying the Preachers with their qualifications over-heate Free-grace I doe by that make the Prophets deluders of the people c. I answer That way of preaching the Prophets used pressing as you say Repentance Reformation Humiliation and with Commination and the Law c. was but according to the way and method and straine the Spirit taught them under the Old Testament but if the Prophets should have held forth Jesus Christ under the New Testament and when Christ was manifested in the flesh with such vails over him and so much Law over him as they did before they had sinned against the glory of that ministration as well as some of you who bring Christ back againe under the cool shadow of the Law and make that Sun of Righteousnesse that he warmes not so many with the love of him as he would doe if ye would let them behold with open face as in a glasse the glory of the Lord and if you would give his beams more liberty to shine upon them doth not the ministration of the Spirit exceed in glory Nor were the Prophets deluders of the people then because it was the peoples time of Pupillage and being under Bondage they were shut up under the Law till faith came they were under Tutors and Governors till the time appointed So as that was truth and right dispensation in them to preach so much of the Law of curse and judgement c. as they did and of Repentance and Reformation in that straine they did But in ye who pretend to preach Christ come in the flesh ye who pretend to be Preachers in the Kingdome of God and so greater then the greatest Prophet then he that was more then a Prophet in ye such preaching were delusion because it were not as the truth is in Christ nor according to that glory of the Gospell to that grace revealed to that manifestation of Christ in the flesh to that ministration of glory but rather to those deceitfull workers the Apostle speaks on to those that troubled them with words subverting their souls who preached Law and Gospell Circumcision and Christ Master Gattaker 1 That we gird at those that bid men repent and be humbled and be sorry for sinnes and pray c. as Legall Teachers 2 That Christ preached repentance humiliation self-deniall conversion renouncing all in purpose this is not the same Gospell with that they preach as in Free-grace pag. 125 126 152 153 163 191 193. Answer To your first for our girding at those that bid men repent and be humbled c. as Legall teachers If ye presse repentance and humiliation legally why wonder ye at such words as Legall teachers Will ye doe ill and not be told of your faults must we prophesie smooth things to you and say ye are able Ministers of the New Testament when we are perswaded that truth is detained in unrighteousnesse We blame not any that bid men
Some Drops of the Viall powred OUT IN A SEASON WHEN IT IS Neither Night nor Day OR Some Discoveries of Iesus Christ His Glory in severall BOOKS viz. 1. The New Quaere 2. The Opening of the Vindication 3. The Smoake in the Temple 4. The Groanes for liberty 5. The Divine Right of Presbytery discussed 6. An End of One Controversie 7. Reasons for Vnity Peace and Love And Shadowes flying away All which Books are here reprinted in one Booke entirely after the severall Impressions of them and presented to the Reader 1 King 19. 11 12. But the Lord was not in the Winde and after the Winde an Earthquake but the Lord was not in the Earthquake and after the Earthquake a fire but the Lord was not in the fire and after the fire a still small voice and the Lord was in that By John Saltmarsh Preacher of the Gospell LONDON Printed for Giles Calvert at the Black Spread-Eagle at the West end of PAULS 1646. TO HIS EXCELLENCY Sir THOMAS FAIRFAX Generall of all the Forccs raised for the PARLIAMENT Right Honourable THe severall pieces thus rallied were never writ in my own power or appointment but I had commonly some juncture of Providence and something of a Spirit not my own upon me for I observed I could not write when I would my Springes were not in me nor could I end when I would till I had finished this Testimony and for something of God here I am sure there is enough of man of my selfe Thus is Gods appearing while we are in the Body he was in Christs which had no sin but he is not so in ours which are full of sin I have some few things to say and they ars things of duty from me and of truth to you that God hath filled the story of your life with himselfe with his Power Wisdome and Love and all that he may be your fulnesse and that you would glory in the Lord Let me remind you how you have seen him from Leedes to Bradfoorth to Wetherby to York to Hull even from Yorkeshire to Lincolneshire from thence to Naseby and so through the Conquest of Cities Towns Castles through so much almost as a Kingdom comes to And now after all this enter into your rest even the love of God the Son of God and there refresh your selfe in his light in his glory in the bosome of his love there are pleasures for evermore this is a piece of your coursest worke to beare the Sword for him who is the Power of God upon Earth for the punishment of evill doers in the world the more glorious worke is your Spirituall where Principalities and Rulers and Spirituall wickednesse in high places flesh and bloud are all against you and yet you above them all in him through whom you are more than Conquerour even him that loved you Sir Let it be not your busines only to Conquer as a man but as a Saint not as a Souldier but as a Christian not in the spirit of man but of God Let not a sin a lust a temptation stand more before you in the body then an enemy in the field gird on your spirituall Armour your Shield of faith your brestplate of righteousnesse your Sword of the Spirit your Helmet of Salvation and put on your white lining which is the righteousnesse of the Saints and follow him who rides on the white Horse in a vesture dipt in the bloud of his sufferings whose name is the Word of God and tell me if ever there was Glory like unto this Glory I cannot reckon the mighty men of valour in the world any thing but a worldly glory which if it dyed not with them or some ages after them yet can live no longer than the life of the world all these things are perishing but to be a man of the holy Spirit a man borne of God a man that wars not after the flesh a man of the Kingdom of God as well as of England Thus you shall live beyond time and age and men and the world gathered up into the life which is Eternall and was with the Father Sir Your dwelling now is much in the shadow of death and amongst the Graves and therefore so live in Christ your life that you may have one life more then men can kill men can only kill the man not the Christian. Sir I will not praise you but blesse God for you and his Image in you this will make great men love God and not themselves to speake of them as his not as their own Now Sir so warre that you may be still a man of peace in the midst of battell and of compassions in the midst of sufferings never wearing your Laurell without some Olive that all may know when you act as a Magistrate and as your selfe when you act from power or when from love from Justice or when from mercy So love as you may love God and Christ in men more then men and the Spirit in any more then the Forme either of Presbytery or Independency Thus Brethren who can now scarcely love one another because of that shall love you and shall learne to love one another from you Noble Sir Your humble servant IOHN SALTMARSH A New Quaere At this time seasonably to be considered as we tender the advancement of TRVTH PEACE Viz. Whether it be fit according to the Principles of true Religion and State to settle any Church-Government over the Kingdome hastily or not and with the Power commonly desired in the hands of the Ministers By IOHN SALTMARSH Preacher of the Word at Brasteed in Kent 2 Cor. 10. 8. Our authority which the Lord hath given for Instruction and not for destruction LONDON Printed for Giles Calvert at the Signe of the Black Spread-Eagle at the West-End of S. PAULS 1646. A Quaere Whether it be â—it according to the Principles of true Religion and State to settle any Church-Government over the Kingdom hastily or not and with the Power commonly desired in the hands of the Ministers _1 THe Rules laid down in the Word for practicall Obedience are these in part Let every one be fully perswaded in his own mind Rom. 14. 5. ver 23. and whatsoever is not of faith is sin Now the setling of any Government upon a people who are yet generally untaught in the nature and grounds of it is to put upon the people the practice of that wherein it is impossible they can be fully perswaded in their minds and so either on a necessity of sin or misery 2 There is great danger of bringing people under a Popish implicite Obedience by forcing on a practice of that which they scarce know or know but in part And this is against the Nationall Covenant to side with any Principles of Popery And we know it by experience that the people have been ever devoted to any thing the State sets up all the disputes or conscience of the common people usually ending in this Whether it
so exactly now and these knew both the fashion and the time for Building Yet who ought not to hasten the Temple if the Timber be ready and if the Apostles and Prophets be there for a foundation and Iesus Christ for chiefe Corner-ston Ephes 2. Object II. But Vice Heresies and Schisms will grow too fast Answ So they might have done from Iohns first Sermon to Pauls Epistles and the sending of the Spirit but yet you see there was no Government till after setled upon the people of God And if Heresies stir up their Patrons against the State the Magistrate beares not the Sword in vaine And if morall transgressions let the Magistrate be set on in every place to quicken the Statutes and Preachers every where sent forth to publish the Gospell And what if the Prince of Persia withstand for a while Truth is otherwise armed from heaven Though Satan be in the wisdernesse with Corist yet Christ shall conquer It is the Papists and the Prelates Jealousies to keep up their supposed truths by suspecting every thing that appeares for an enemy The Gospell dares walk abroad with boldnesse and simplicity when Traditions of men like melancholy people feare every thing they meet will kill them For the Angell that comes down from heaven hath great power and the earth is lightned with his glory Rev 18. 1. FINIS THE OPENING OF MASTER PRYNNES NEW BOOK CALLED A Vindication OR Light breaking out from a Cloud of Differences or late Controversies Wherein Are Inferences upon the Vindication and Antiquaeres to the Quaeres and by that the way a little cleared to a further Discovery of Truth in a Church-Order by a Conference or Discourse By JOHN SALTMARSH Preacher at Brasteed in Kent Published according to Order LONDON Printed for Giles Calvert at the Sgne of the Black Spread-Eagle at the West-End of S. PAULS 1645. To the Honourable Philip Skippon Major Generall of the Army raised for the King and Parliament under the Command of Sir Thomas Fairfax Generall NOBLE SIR SVpposing you may take the Book called the Vindication by Master Prynne into your hand I desire that this Discourse may be in your other hand as occasion serves If the Lord hath revealed any thing in this Discourse to enlighten the darknesse of this present Controversie it is onely from him who is the Father of Lights who carries on his to a more excellent way till we may with open face behold the Glory of Jesus Christ and be changed from glory to glory Sir The thing I only contend for is that which the Gospel and Spirit cals for Whatsoever things are pure whatsoever things are honest whatsoever things are of good report Sir The ingagement of private respects which are upon me towards you and being likewise a partaker of some labours of yours in the Lord which are abroad as that of Promises c. The best treasure we have in this life hath drawne this from me The Lord who hath wounded you binde you up and lead you on to the glorious Truths for if I mistake not our Controversie is but this in these times some would walke more close with Christ some can be content like Peter to walke at more distance and follow him afar off and to stand warming themselves with the multitude in the Common-Hall And let the Word judge betwixt us which is of best report Sir Yours in the things of Iesus Christ John Saltmarsh But I have many Reasons I shall now acquaint you with if you will have but patience and not upon a Notion or Name of Heresie and Schism shut up your Windows as against a new light Meteor or some Blazing-Star as too many do we are bidden try the spirits and prove all things Friend be not so discourteous to any Notion that is a stranger it is besides the Aposties rule be not saies he forgetfull to entertaine strangers for some have entertained Angels unawares And this is one Reason further till more come we are but comming out of Babylon you and we were but the other day with the vaile of Prelacy upon our hearts and we are but in healing like the blind man and because yet we see men like Trees shall we therefore judge them to be so and not stay till our eyes be opened that we see better P. Have you no better reasons to convince me These I confesse are something and I will think on them C. Yea look with a single eye upon their principles and take them in their own single Positions not as the world Prints them or reports them this is much a wanting in these times you know what was said of the Christians to Paul As for this sect every where it is spoken against And I see no reason why other opinions which have been held by some Author of one opinion should be all charged upon that one for his sake which neither in it selfe nor any just consequence from it can be proved of any right to belong unto it And if there be any Tares with the wheat they are of the enemies sowing as Christ said to make us go by and not reap there where the Wheat is so scant and the Tares so many P. But O methinks if things were setled about the Church once C. Yea but how will you settle F. How As it is agreed on C. Agreed on What have you not heard of the new Book of the Vindication of the foure Questions P. What of that C. Some of the learned for the Presbiteriall way are divided about setling and know not how to settle the great Ordinance of the Lords Supper upon the Kingdom or Nation P. How Any of our judgement divided I will not beleeve that Surely they are not like your Independent Brethrer to crumble into divisions and severall opinions C. Look you now how you are mistaken I tell you again The Vindication-Book whose Author is as famous and able as your way affords hath writ a large Tractate for mixt Communions or Sacraments against some of that way that are against them P. Beleeve me if it be so I shall be at a stand I thought all of our side that had been for Presbytery had been all of a mind and none had broken out into Factions but they of the other side C. I love not this word Faction on any side yet till we see more I would not misinterpret any willingly You shall heare the reasons on both sides gathered up very narrowly without the passion for I would neither have passion to object nor to confute any thing but meerly Scripture and Reason P. I pray you what are the differences C. A reverend Brother of the Presbyteriall way answers certain Questions of anothers of that way which he it seemes had propounded to the State to be considered on in the setling of things over the Kingdom and some others too in certain Printed Treatises have gone about to confute them so as his Questions which as he professes openly were written only
in the spirit under the Gospell we worship now in spirit and in truth not by representations as under the Law And therefore it is that the Gospell-Ordinances are so few so plaine and poore to the eye that the soule may not be taken up with the signe but with things spirituall And we may observe that as little as can be of outward elements are made use on as in Baptisme meere water and in the Supper Wine and Bread and the first Ordinance is called the Baptisme of the Spirit not of water and the Bread and Wine The Communion of the Body and of the Bloud of Christ not Bread and Wine And faith the Apostle If we have known Christ after the flesh henceforth know we have no more And further What is it that is said of grace comming in by the eye This is the way the Papists let in Christ having made the eye rather the Organ for conversion then the eare Now Faith commeth by hearing and therefore all their Idolatrous Pictures their Imagery and theabicall representations are all for the eye and bringing in Christ by Obtick or sense and making conversion to be by perspective and working only an historicall faith And further What is it that is said of working grace by the eye As if the carnall part could advantage conversion by any power there but such a power as is meerly carnall and naturall What can all these signes of the Lord Iesus doe upon a blinde soul as all unregenerate men are What are the glorious colours to him that hath no eyes to see The signes of bread and wine are given for working symbolically or by signe upon a soule or understanding spiritually enlightened before and having a discerning and therefore it is that the Apostle saith He that eats and drinks unworthily eats and drinks damnation to himself not discerning the Lords Body which if the Supper had been a converting Ordinance the Apostle would not have charged the unworthy from receiving but rather have encouraged them in their receiving that of unworthy they might have been made worthy But you see he cals for a right discerning of the Lords Body first which cannot be a calling of the unregenerate or unconverted to a partaking because they have no right discerning of the Body of Christ but by the sense first converted Vindication Fol. 44. 1. That the most humbling melting soul-changing sin-purging mollifying meditations of all others are from Christs death and passion c. and therefore c. 2. Afflictions and corporall punishments are converting Ordinances therefore c. 3. That unworthy participating is a meanes of spirituall hardening and so by the rule of contraries a worthy receiving an instrument of conversion 4. All the ends of it are as appeares so spirituall see his Scriptures that how is it possible it should not be Gods intention and Christs Ordination to be a converting Ordination 5. Conversion is a turning of the whole man unto love obedience of God in Christ from the love of the world c. and what engine more powerfull for the forecited respects or spirituall ends 6. Experience in every Christians conscience whose preparations and approaches to this Sacrament were the first effectuall means of their conversion yea they had not been converted if debarred from it Inference We may inferre upon the first That there are soul-melting meditations in a soul unconverted or unmelted and that there are soul-changing meditations in a soul unchanged which the Scriptures never speak on such waies of conversion are no waies in the Word that we read on but hidden paths for the spirit of mans devising Secondly that because afflictions are therefore Sacraments are that is because one thing is therefore another thing is This is but the Old Argument But God may sanctifie any thing at his own pleasure to make way for Conversion and yet that no instituted Ordinance for conversion neither Because some have been converted when afflicted when sick when poor therefore will you first go afflict them and make them sick and poore taking all they have from them that you may convert them and so make them standing Ordinances Thirdly Is a rule of contraries a rule in the Scriptures or in Logick But it is said Worthy receiving is an instrument of Conversion that is Conversion is a meanes of Conversion who can receive worthily till in Christ till converted 4. But all the ends of it are spirituall and how is it possible but then it should convert This How is it possible is like that of Why should it not both of one strength to prove it for though the ends be never so spirituall yet if there be no warrant for any such institution as conversion all the reasons extrinsecall or strange consequences as all such are cannot institute an Ordinance none but God and Christ and therefore the Popish Arguments built upon such forreigne and externall though rationall consequences are not immediate nor intrinsecall enough to warrant any thing of their will-worship 5. But â—â— is a powerfull engine Yea but only for what it is instituted and oâ—dained nor is it lesse excellent because it converts not because every thing is beautifull in its order and place and law of creation 6 But the experiences of Chrictians witnesse who had never been converted if not at the Sacrament But what Christians are these What kind of experiences are these I question the truth of all such conversion who have only such experience as this because that such experience crosses the Word and way of the Spirit and those are no right experiences which are not Scripture-experiences But some had not been converted if debarred from it This is a strange assertion against that of the Word The spirit bloweth where and when it listeâ—â— and some are called at one houre of the day some at another and how is it cleare that the Sacrament converted such or not some other act of the Word at that time or about it Shew me that Christian among so many that can evidence his act of conversion meerely barely singly immediately from the act of communicating and then there is something proved to justifie an experience of Conversion at such a time but still not to justifie the Sacrament an Ordinance-Conversion and so to be used Vindication Fol. 46. Is any Master or Parent so unnaturall and sottish to deny his children or servant wholesome meat to feed their bodies And shall any Minister be so irrationall or inconsiderate in denying the spirituall food Inference Whence we may inferre That the Vindication takes all unconverted persons by this comparison to be alive and spiritually quickned or else it were as he sayes unnaturall sottish irrationall to give them food And if they be unconverted as he pleads for then who is so unnaturall sottish irrational or inconsiderate as to give them any Men onely hold forth food to the living and not to the dead Vindication Fol. 46. Physitians had an errour to deny drink
of Church-power as is pretended That none ought to communicate in the Ordinances of Christ till first baptized Exceptions against the grounds of the new Baptism 1. THat those places commonly taken for the Commission for Christs Baptisin as Mat. 28. 18. Mar. 16. and where they that now baptize ground their Commission and practice hath no such thing in it For the Baptism there is a Baptism in the Name of the three Persons of Father Son and Holy Ghost and not the Baptism of Jesus Christ alone which the Apostles only baptized in by water as in Act. 2. 28. Act. 10. 48. Act. 19. 5. Act. 8. 16. Rom. 6. 3. where it is still said Baptize in the Name of the Lord Jesus or of Jesus Christ and a Name of any more Persons is not the least mentioned So as to baptize as they commonly baptize in the Name of Father Son and Holy Ghost for Jesus Christs baptism is contrary to the full practice of all that baptized by water as they do as in Act. 2. 38. Act. 10. 48. Act. 19. 5. Act. 8. 16. c. and a confounding Scriptures together viz. severall institutions and practices 2. That baptizing in Matth. 28. 18. cannot properly nor in the word and letter be understood of baptizing by water because there is no more mentioned in the letter or Scripture then meerly the word baptizing and to expound it as they do by a baptizing by water is to put in a consequence and interpretation of their own for Scripture which way of consequences they condemn in all others Presbyterials c. as Will-worship and traditions of men and justly too Now there being no water nor any circumstance in the Text to make out any sense of water as in other places it is an usurpation vpon the Spirit and the Word to put such a sense so infallibly and peremptorily upon the Word which Jesus Christ himself uses in other significations then that of water as in Matth. 20. 22 23. Matth. 3. 11. 1. Cor. 12. 13. 1 Cor. 10. 2. all these places are of Baptism and baptizing yet not one of them of baptizing by water but of Metaphorical and figurative Baptism by his sufferings by the Holy Ghost by the Spirit by the cloud and Sea 3. That Matth. 28. 18. Mar. 16 c. are rather and far more probably to be expounded of the Spirits Baptisme or the Baptism of the Holy Ghost because it seems to be prophesied on by Joel 2. 28. Isai 44. 3. where the Holy Ghosts Baptism is promised to come by Christ and in Matth. 3. 11. Act. 1. 5. Joh. 1. 33. prophesied on to come by John and Christ himself to his Disciples and was fulfilled in Christs Institution and power which he gave in Matth. 28. 18. by baptizing with the Holy Ghost which the Apostles did accordingly practice and by their Ministery was given as in Act. 8. 17 and Mark. 16. 16 17. compared with Matth. 28. 18. doth shew that the Baptism in Matth. 28. 18. is a Baptism of gifts as Mark. 16. 15 16 17. 4. That the Baptism of Jesus Christ by water was only in the Name of Jesus Christ as appears in all the places where such a Baptism was practised as in Act. 2. 38. Act. 10. 48. Act. 19 5. Act. 8. 16. Rom. 6. 3. all which is a Baptism only in the Name of Jesus Christ of the Person of the Son not of the Father Son and Holy Ghost as they now practise and which was never practised as appeares in all the Apostles and Disciples practise 5. That the forme by which they baptize viz. I baptize thee in the Name of the Father Son and Holy Ghost is a forme of mans devising a tradition of man a meer consequence drawn from supposition and probability and not a forme left by Christ to say over them at the dipping them in the water If Christ had said When you baptize them say this over them I baptize in the Name of the Father Son and Holy Ghost and unlesse Jesus Christ had left this forme thus made up to their hands they practise a thing made up by themselves and drawn or forced out of Jesus Christs words in Matth. 28. 18. 6. That to preach in the Name of Jesus Christ or to do things in the Name of Jesus Christ is not alwaies in that grosse manner as it is taken viz. naming Jesus Christ or the Father Son and Holy Ghost over them But in the power vertue efficacy Ministery of Jesus Christ or the Persons of the God-head of Father Son and Holy Ghost as in these Scriptures Matth. 28. 20. Mark 13. 6. Joh. 14. 3. Act. 19. 15 16. Joh. 17. 6 11. Act. 9. 14. Revel 11. 18 So here they are at some more losse 7. That though I deny not but water is a signe and one of the witnesses that beare record and in the Word though not yet cleare yet neither can Christs Institution of water and his own Baptism in his own Person be made appeare out of all the New Testamont nor can the Apostles practise by water yet be fetched from such a particular Institution unlesse from Iohn's And if so I am sure they are then at as great a Controversie one with another concerning John's Baptism and Jesus Christ's making them to be two severall Baptisms 8. That every common Disciple cannot so baptize as the first Disciples did because not gifted or qualified as they were And there is as much necessity to make out the Truth in the same power and way of evidence to an Antichristian estate as to a Jewish and Heathenish and with a Word written as well as preached speaking and writing lying both equally open to question and exceptions without a power glorious working in the behalfe and to the reputation of it Nor is there any one Disciple in all the New Testament preaching and baptizing by way of authority but he was able to make out the truth of his calling and dispensation either by miracle or gifts There are but three Exceptions and they have no weight in them 1. Ananias was a Disciple I answer Yea but he restored sight to Saul and had vision 2. Philip did no miracle to the Eunuch I answer We can neither conclude he did nor he did not from the Word for it is silent but he did miracles in Samaria 3. They that were scattered went every where preaching I answer Who they were or how they preached or what power they manifested is not laid down in the Word neither for nor against The Word is silent 9. That there is not such an Officer as Administrator in the whole Word but Apostles Evangelists Prophets Pastors Teachers Elders Rulers Deacons c. and therefore Administrator is an unholsome Word 10. None ought to give Baptism now because there is none can give the gift of the Holy Ghost with it to make up that glorious supplement of
gifts which it alwaies had and they are joyned both in the Word and practice as in Heb. 6. 1. Doctrine of Baptisms and Laying on of hands and in their practice they were joyned as in act Act. 8. 14. 15 16. And it will appeare in the Word that the Apostles did not so reckon of them single but together as in Act. 8. 14 15 16. where it is said they were only Baptized in the Name of the Lord Jesus but they prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Ghost So as Baptism by water and by the Holy Ghost being joyned together both in Institution Doctrine and Practice are not to be separated nor given in such a time wherein that of the Holy Ghost is not given For what God hath joyned together let no man put asunder 11. That it is as unreasonable to take any such Ordinance of Jesus Christ from any that is not distinctly specially spiritually powerfully enabled as the first dispensers as it is to take the word of any common man charging us in the name of the Parliament and cannot visibly make out a visible Excellency and Supremacy of power by Ordinance or Commission 12. That these Churches who enjoy Christs mind as they think most fully in the practice oâ— Ordinances yet have no greater gifts in their Churches then there are in those called Independent or Separatist Prayer Teaching Prophesying being as fully and powerfully performed in the one as the other And being so Whether must not the Churches of Christ be distinguished by some more visible glorious power and gifts as at first by which they may be discerned to excell all other Societies 13. That the fulnesse of time is not yet come for Ordinances For as there were severall seasons for the givings out of Truth before so now Seeking or Seekers So called What their Way is and what they hold THat there is no Church nor Ordinances yet That if they did not end with the Primitive or Apostles times yet they are to begin as in the Primitive times with gifts and miracles and that there is as much reason for the like gifts to make out the Truth of any of the Gospell now to an Antichristian estate as formerly to a Jewish or Heathenish That such a Belever as can dispence Ordinances must be qualified as the Beleevers in Mark 16. and as the former Disciples were That there is a time and fulnesse for the Spirit and for the latter pure spirituall dispensations as there was formerly for the first dispensations And whether this shall be while the Angels are but powring out their Vials or not or when Babilon is fallen And whether there is not as much need for new Tongues to reveale the pure Origionall to us it being conveyed with corruptions and additionals in Translations by which Truth may be more purely discovered and the waters of Life that now run muddily may flow more cleare and Crystal-like from the Throne of God The Exceptions 1. THat Jesus Christ did promise to be ever with his Church and therefore cannot be reasonably presumed to leave them without Church and Ordinances 2. That if Scriptures were not so pure and cleere to us as the Word of Life were not sufficiently there God were lesse gracious to us now under Grace and Christ come in the flesh then before to the Jews who gave them a Book of the Law which remained with them to the coming of the Messiah 3. That such gifts and miracles were rather for bringing the Word into the world and for glorifying Christs first coming in the flesh then for after 4. That if we must have miracles to make us beleeve and not beleeve any truth till then we must have for every Truth as well as for one or two a miracle to give it evidence and so there must be a continuall and new miracle working for every new beleeving 5. If there must be miracles for beleeving Truth is not of that excellent nature that it seems for if it be not able to make it selfe evident and cast a native and spirituall f shine or brightnesse upon that soule it comes into it is but weake dark and insufficient 6. If Truth be not discernable in it self by its own glorious lightsome nature by beames from it self it is of a worse condition then many things below as the Sun and Stars and Candles c. which bring that light in their own nature and dispensation by which they are discerned 7. If every Truth be a became of Christ the truth then every beame hath light in it selfe because it streams from the fountaine of light and so is discernable 8. That it is more glorious to take evidences from the Spirit then from any thing without which can at the farthest of it self but convince the outward man 9. That all shall now in the last times be in a secret invisible inward spirituall glory no more in grosse carnall visible evidences and materiall beams as gifts miracles And this is to know Christ no more after the flesh 10. No miracles can in their own nature make one beleeve without a spirituall conviction from the Spirit of Christ going along with it so as we see when miracles were wrought some beleeved and some beleeved not So as then there is no such reason for miracles as pretended because that conviction which comes from the Spirit through the work of a miracle may come by any other instrumentall or originall way Or it is a more glorious operation by how much more single or by way of immediate revelation it works 11. To beleeve meerly by the Spirit is far more glorious then by any other outward means though never so outwardly glorious by how much the Spirit is more excellent then any thing else by so much more divine and spirituall are the impressions of it 12. That when miracles are wrought yet a pretender may work a miracle for the contrary like the Sorcerers of Egypt against Moses and Antichrist is spoken on rather to come with signes and wonders of the two then Christ So as here shall be a losse to any that think to beleeve meerly by miracle So as the Spirit is that which must make us beleeve beyond all the power of miracle which can give out its power but upon the sense at farthest being meerly outward and visible 13. That there is no such power for Ordinances as is pretended but Beleevers as Disciples may administer and so did the Apostles and Beleevers formerly as they were Disciples 14. That the Scriptures of the Gospell or New Testament are of such a divine and even Spirituall glory in the Letter as no other word There is a power to discover the reason and secrets of the heart which the reason and heart of man witnesses unto There is a power to convince and accase and terrifie and comfort clearly and undeniably and
in things immediately divine and spirituall The consciences of men are under a spirituall and immediate Interpreter of the Word even the Spirit of the Lord in all things of spirituall cognizance as every scripture-Scripture-truth or Truth in the Word is and this is not only strengthened and cleer from the Word but from a testimony which some when they read may know better then many others By the Clause According to the Word of God we understand so far as we doe or shall in our consciences conceive the same to be according to the Word of God Now each man standing thus ingaged in his owne particular and in his own proper conscience by a Covenant recommended and imposed each is bound to bring forth the evidence of their consciences in particular concerning this to which they are covenanted So as I or you being covenanted against Popery Heresie and according to the Word of God you and I stand bound by our own private consciences to reveale to the State who hath recommended such a Covenant unto us what our consciences interpret according to this Word against Popery or Heresie unlesse there could be one universall or publike infallible Interpreter of the Word of God and Truth who might determine concerning Heresie and the Word of God and whose determinations is as in the formerly inspired Apostolical teachers we may rest So being thus ingaged by Covenant we are at the same time by one and the same Act bound to liberty of conscience in these particulars of the things of God And if there should be any persecution for the pious modest and peaceable liberty so taken and practised whether would it not clearly and undeniably follow that our consciences are not under the Lord Iesus and his Spirit immediatly in the things of God but under the interpretations of men And surely that one Clause according to the Word of God is most providentially inserted for if we be so closely covenanted to the Word of God how tender ought we to be lest in this dark season of our discerning we oppose somthing of the Word and so in ignorance persecute what we covenant to maintaine I wish our Assembly would presse this equally with the Covenant in their Sermons Object But must every one be the Interpreter of the Covenant Answ Nay not every one in every thing The Magistracy in all things of a civill cognizance and in all spirituall things which go out from their meer spirituall condition into a morall offence as injustice or evill transgression into tumult or disturbance of publike or private peace actually and expressely not interpretatively for so the Nations interpreted the Iewes as troublers of the State and the Iewes Christ and his Disciples as movers of sedition The Papists and Prelats interpreted the Nonconformists or reproâ—ched Puritans as factious and tumultuous So as in all things of Morall Civill or Secular cognizance which the Magistrate hath clear rule for to walke by He ought to interpret and proceed by partly because he is the Legislator and so is the best Interpreter and can best resolve us in things of Law and publike liberty and in morals his duty lies out more cleerly but in meerly divine and spirituall interpretations of Truth and Gospell-mystery the Lord Jesus and the Spirit of Jesus Christ are both the Legislators or Law givers and Interpreters to the conscience Obj. But shall there be no power to compell consciences into Uniformity Answ I shall give light to this by propounding a Case Suppose the severall godly parties or beleevers were equally principled for persecution or non-toleration and were equally numbred and were equally strengthened by parties of Magistracie on their side what would come forth according to such principles I sigh to consider There would be edge against edge authority against authority power against power and all the State or Kingdome involved into bloud and confusion So as we must consider things according to their principles not according to their temporary or occasionall advantages Object But you give not enough to the Magistrate Answ Yea more then any He that gives him that which God hath given him gives more then any that pretend to give him the most The pretenders that bid for the Magistrate at this time are 1. They that put him as an help and government in the Church as some viz. they of the Erastian way 2. They that make use on him but as an help to the Church extrinsecally and by way of forraigne assistance as others viz. they of the Presbyteriall way 3. They that give him power over body goods over all morall and civill behaviours of men Professors and Beleevers of what sort soever of what opinion soever as I and the rest of our Brethren do praying with all manner of supplication that under them we may lead a peaceable godly and quiet life Obj. But why dare you not ingage civill Magistracy in Religion over consciences as some others do Answ Yea in all things morally good and evill God hath ingaged them and hath set the Law and Light of nature and conscience in all people to side with them condemning and excusing what they and their Law doth condemne and excuse and thus to beare witnesse with their dominion and power But in things of pure Gospel-mystery and Evangelically good or evill I dare not ingage them whatever others doe over consciences because I give more to their just power and because I dare not draw them into such principles which hath broken more Magistracy then all the other plots and devices of men For things of Worship which are laid up in the pure simple mystery in the Light of the Spirit not of nature as all meer Gospell-mystery is to ingage the Magistrates Sword into these is rather a way to dash them against every mans conscience and so in time to lay in a fatall power or a fatall suffering We know that power which makes Kingdoms soundest in their Dominion and most lasting is the truest and wholsomest and surely that which ingages them lest into that part of the soule the conscience which can lest endure to be oppressed is the safest and most peaceable To my Reverend learned Freind M. LEY One of the Assembly of Divines at Westminster Author of a Book called The Resolution of the New Quere published by Master Saltmarsh SIR I Shall give you a publike account according to your publike charge in your leafe concerning me That I intended to make you my Censor for some Papers which I did not publish Page 1. Sir those Papers were an Answer to Master Fullers last Book and the Question about Reformation betwixt him and me being so out of all Question as Master Herle serveth and â—e as I heard being dead made me rather put up my Arrows into their Quiver then shoot them at such a mark For my contending with you in this I hope it is but as that of Paul and Barnabas and Paul and Peter a contention of Brethren not
of Enemies for I thinke you would oppose Truth no more then my selfe but we both may be said to contend rather for the Truth then against it and rather with one anothers reason then with Truth In this Controversie you have much advantage of learning and experience but there is a Spirit and the inspiration of the Almighty which enlightens the young man and the old Elihu as well as Job or his Friends Your other advantages are the Magistrate whom you have more on your side we only are more on the Magistrates side then they are on ours yet we cannot but say and blesse the Lord for them they are so far on ours as we lead a peaceable and quiet life under them Your other advantage is an Assembly of learned Divines yet not so wholy yours the way of Truth we stand for hath a Party there and I hope when the vaile of prejudice is taken away and Truth is brought home to their soules in its nakednesse power and evidence by a power more spirituall then is yet given out from Heaven out Party there will be greater I willingly presume so much of them I have laboured that a Spirit of love and meeknesse might run through all my Reply unto you though in my travelling over your Paper I have met with some things in the way too sharp and your way hath more Briars and Thorns in it then you promised in your first leafe I had much ado not to be provoked by how much your promise had removed all offence on your part from my expectation If you find any passions in my Book charge them on my unregenerate part for I find that when I would do good evill is present with me You see my labours deducting the time of their Printing are of about two weeks growth younger by some sixe weeks if I mistake not then yours I hope where you could not expect much you will not look for more then I here return you in this time Sir I salute you in the Lord and with all due respects to your self your age your learning I begin my Discourse with you and the Lord let me see the failings on my part while I seek to discover those on yours that I may take out the beame from my own eye as well as the more from yours You desired me in your Book to enter upon away of Peace and I have accordingly presented my Modell to be perfected and refined by any that will set upon the work I do not love in any thing I write to fume out meerly in Controversie but in something if it may be to edification I rest Your Friend in the Lord JOHN SALTMARSH THE SMOKE IN THE TEMPLE Wherein is the Vindication of the new QUERE From Master Ley's RESOLUTION Master Ley's Resolution Page 2 3. I Put a Question Whether he were an Independent or no He told me He was not but that he had a latitude of charity for them of that way Since that I had a glimpse more of his inclination by his Dawning of Light but a full discovery of his mind in his Book The Opening of M. Pryâ—â—s Vindication I will not entertaine him as an enemy To give him his due in all that I have seen set forth in his name I find him rather opinionative then passionate Reply Your Question was accordingly put by you and accordingly answered by me And for my appearing for Truth not all at once in my Treatises you may see I was not hasty to beleeve nor to write in the behalfe of a Truth before I saw it nor to plunge my selfe into any Way till I had examined it The Apostles waited for the full revelation of all Truth by the Spirits comming The Bereans searched daily to see whether the things were so or no. Apollos preached not Christ clearly till he was instructed in the way of God more perfectly We are bidden to try the spirits and prove all things So as I appeared in those degrees but by Scripture warrant And I could name to you examples of another sort Augustine Luther both finding truth but in degrees and the latter sweetly acknowledging how he was enlightened by beam after beam Angels who lie more naked towards God and take in the things they know by way of Vision yet see not any of that will of God which gives Laws to them but as he reveales Much lesse such as we who dwell in houses of clay and whose foundations are in the dust and who come by the sight of things discoursively and by spirituall reasoning God giving in the revelation of his Truths in a naturall yet supernaturall way But for that Notion of Independency you speake on I dare not owne it because I account my selfe both under a spirituall and civill Supremacy under Jesus Christ and the Magistrate severally and exempt from neither We are not of those that despise Governments and speak evill of Dignities nor are we under any such singular Notion that I know on to be called Independents c. We all hold of the Body of Christ and of the Communion of Saints below and we hold one upon another but not one over another We dare not be Classicall Provinciall Nationall these are no formes of wholsome words to which we are commanded nor know we any such power but that of Brethren and Ministery and fellowship We dare not take out a Copy either from the States of the world or the State of Israel to obey or rule by under the Gospell And if you can the Churches or Christ Independent for this we must suffer till the Lord bring forth our righteousnesse as the noon-day Yet this you and we both know that when Truth would not embody or mingle at any time with corruptions it had presently the name of Sect Schisme Faction all which are implyed in the name Independency put upon it Thus were the Reformed Nations of England Germany France c. scandalized by Popish Writers and the old Nonconformists by the Prelaticall the Jews formerly by the Nations the Christians by the Jews We have heard enough of Independency and Presbytery such notes of distinction are now become names of reproach and so I lay them downe And whereas you say you will not entertaine me as an enemy It is more likely then in the end both you and I may prove a better friend to the Truth It is possible many in this Age might have seen more had they not east so much dust in one anothers eyes by their strivings It were well such a Gospell spirit would walke more abroad and that spirit which casts men sometimes into the fire and sometimes into the water were not so stirring Well since you will be no enemy to me I shall not I hope contend with you though I dare not but contend earnestly for the Truth And the Truth it self which I write for may I hope at length find you no more an enemy to it then you are to me I cannot
â—ut wish one of your experience and abilities like Pant to preach for that Truth which before he destrayed Our hearts desire and prayer should be for any of Israel And for that you say of me in your Observation that I am rather opiniâ—native then passionate I cannot take it so ill from you that will needs be no enemy to me I interpret any thing from such a one on the better side of it But I shall allow you your liberty as my self And if the truth of God may more abound through my opinion as you take it unto his glory I have enough Master Ley's Resolution Page 4 5. I wonder he who hath writ a whole Booke of Policie should be so unpolitick as to think it seasonable since it tends to retard the establishment of Government whereto the Parliament is so much ingaged by Declaration c. by Solemne League and Covenant Art 1. already setting it up in Ordinance for Ordination c. Though the liberty of speaking lengthens the Debates and delayes the Votes c. and so much the more because they are more in number then we and because their determinations are finall as ours are not Answer For some things in my Book of Policy I praise the Lord I can looke on them as on part of the darknesse I was in And I can freely joyne with any in censuring any unregenerate part in me as I esteem much of my carnall reason to be When I was a childe I spake as a childe neither have I any fruit now as the Apostle sayes of some of those things Nor would I have any goe thither for direction but so far as they find Scripture or sound Reason I cannot but give a Caution concerning this Booke because I would have Readers to looke on any thing from me as Luther speaks of himself as I receive in light And me thinks I scarse doe any thing which I could not with Augustine when it is done find something to retract in it either somthing is too dead or too darke or too carnall Thus you see I willingly help you against my selfe and I account it a part of my condition here not to see all at once For the unseasonablenesse of my Quere you alleadge the Declaration of Parliament and the Covenant in Art 1. wherein they are ingaged to endeavour Reformation and the Ordinances c. Now where is my unseasonablenesse The Parliament is endeavouring c. May I contribute my moneyes my vote my paines my informations to the Civill ingagements and not my notions to the Spirituall Are we not to bring in all our disbursements either Naturall Civill or Spirituall into that publike Treasury Though you of the Assembly cast in of your abundance may not the poore ones cast in their mite Are we not by the same Covenant bound to discover any thing against God and the State and the glory and peace of both And if I find my conscience perswading me such or such a thing is not accordingly ought I not by all the Obligatious that are upon me of Gospell Parliament and Countrey peaceably and meekly to speak a word May we discover any thing to the State we conceive of malignity or danger in Civill things and not in Spirituals Is not the Spirituall or soul-liberty the more glorious liberty of the Subject We cannot but speak the things which we have seen and heard saith the Apostle And What you heare in the eare that speake you on the house top saith Christ We know who it was that said Prophesie not here for it is the Kings Chappell And for things of a Spirituall nature we are allowed almost the fulnesse of time for season Be instant in season and out of season saith Paul But What better season could I come in then such a one wherein things were but ripening and moving towards establishment Where nothing is setled there can be nothing disturbed Where nothing is concluded there can be nothing repelled Where nothing is established there can be nothing disordered But since you put me to a further account I shall give it My Spirit was not my own so wholly then but his I hope whose motion I obeyed the Lords Such breathings of Heaven who dare safely quench It is as fire in the bones saies the Prophet and like that of Mordecai If thou altogether hold thy peace at this time c. And whereas you say that the Parliaments determinations are finall That holds better for me who might have spoken to much lesse purpose had I stayed till all had been done and the determinations ended and become finall sure it was time then to speak before determinations were final or never and by your own account too for you are pleased to reckon up the proceedings of State in the businesse of Religion which are such as had I stayed I had had a worse season however as the Prophet saies I have delivered my soule they were you know the foolish virgins that came not with their oyle till the doore was shut Whatever my Oyle or my Lamp was yet I think it not agreeable to the wisdom of that Parable to come and knock only when the doore is not open Master Ley's Resolution page 6 7 and 8. The title of the Quere is baited with Truth and Peace He a private Divine to put such a Quere both of State and Religion and to suggest such a suspition of hast and to tax the Ministers for putting in for a power not consonant to Scriptures and Prudence c. His rendring the originall word metaphorically His artificiall colours Rhetoricall c. And my marshalling his reasons in a right method Reply I have gathered up into one bundle your pieces of a lighter concernment I would not stay tything Annise and Cummin but I hasten to the weightier matters of the Law A word only to each For baiting my Quere with Truth and Peace you allude to Christ's allegory that we are fishers of men and if I have no worse things to bait with then these two Truth and Peace none need I hope be afraid of the hooke And for the proof of them both argument and time will evidence For me a private Divine to put a Quere of State and Religion What were John Hus Wickliff Luther Paphnutius who in their severall ages gave out their testimonies They were but single men compared with Councels and Synods Not that I would compare with them who am lesse then the least of all the mercies of God yet they were but single though singular men And what if a private Divine Jesus Christ may bid a private man stand and speake to the people There is a Law of the Spirit commands to speake as well as the Law of a State and though you speak by the later Law another may speak by the former And what though a Quere both of Religion and State Is not our Covenant mixt accordingly of Religion and State Doth not the State
sin My proofe is this in behalfe of your Argument That conscience which is not wholly consenting is not fully perswaded But such is the State or Publike conscience viz. not fully consenting at this time Therefore the State-conscience is not fully perswaded Note Because some are more for it some are lesse for it I prove the State-conscience not fully consenting That conscience which hath not Scripture to secure it cannot be fully consenting or perswaded But such is the Publike conscience at this time concerning this present Government Therefore the Publike or State-conscience cannot be so fully consenting or perswaded Note Because they which cannot call it a Government by Divine Right are not secured concerning it by the Word and then by conscience are not fully consenting nor perswaded Master Ley's Resolution pag 9 10. If we take his reason to stand immediately against obedience and so consequently against commands c. It is more formall but still as feeble Repugnant to Religion and reason against former Protestations and the Covenant for some will alwaies scruple c. Reply Some of this might have been spared Let us have as much reason and as little reviling as may be Your reason is because then neither Protestations nor Covenant of State can be administred for some will alwaies scruple So as here is the force of your reason Because Protestations and Covenants in the State are put upon a people unwilling and malignant therefore Government should First a truth of Government and the establishment of it is but indirectly unsutably and disproportionably proved from Oaths and Covenants Indeed under the Old Testament and in the State of Israel Covenants were more agreeable to the way of that Church they were part of the Worship then and it was a way of obligation and engagement fitted more to the Policie of that Nation They were a People or Nation of themselves singled out from the world and marked by a carnall Ordinance And their Discipline was fitted to the whole Nation by God himselfe and so Covenants c. gathered them up from the world into their Nationall way of Worship c. But now the way of Church and Worship changing and the Laws of such kind of externall Pedagogie ceasing and a more inward and spirituall Law comming in you might have done well â—re you took things thus for granted to cleere the way of Covenants under the Gospell and not to prove one probable thing by another Those of your way are against a little Church Covenant and why not a great one For the imposing of Protestations now c. It is not my work here to discusse nor am I against any way of State-security that may consist with â—ound Prudence and for the spirituall part of them wherein men covenant in the things of God let every one be fully perswaded in his own mind That is the Apostle's rule I am sure what ever any say to the contrary and will stand In civill things I would have any way or designe of assurance that is fairly and justly Politick in spirituell things only such waies of assurance as are Gospell-waies and may sure with the New Testament-beleevers And now you are to prove more then perhaps you thought on that is to cleare a Church-covenant which many of your Way are against for though you condemne it in some Churches not of your Way yet a Nationall Church-covenant you plead for And how can this be both true and false that a great Church-covenant is lawfull and a little one unlawfull A Nationall Church-covenant lawfull and a Particular or Congregationall Church-covenant unlawfull This only by the way To shew you how one may mistake his way in a mist you were proving a Government and now you are engaged to prove Church covenants which you are both for and against And yet after all this of Protestations and Covenants there is no faire proofe of establishing a Government or imposing it in your way and designe from these It is not safe going to the State for a Paterne for the Church If the State in certain seasons of unfaithfulnesse and unsettlement contrive any way of security and assurance necessity is often a law maker in States yet not so in the Church will you from hence argue for a liberty in the Church Will you make necessity your Gospell your Law-giver there Necessity is sometimes a suspender of laws in the Gospell but no law-maker Master Ley's Resolution pag. 10. But I answer I wonder an ingenuous man as M. Saltmarsh is should make such an Objection Reply These are good words and I hope you shall have no worse then you bring Yet we must speak truth Master Ley's Resolution page 10. I answer The Church government is such as in the chiefe parts of it is from the Word Reply You grant then that the Government is but in some parts warrantable by the Word So was Episcopacie and Prelacy in some parts of it There is not any false Worship or Way but it hath some parts of truth in it The great Image had a head of gold c. The Mystery of iniquity sits in the Temple of God c. The Whore of Babilon sits in Skarlet decked with gold and precious stones and Pearles Truth must be all one and the same and homogeneal not in parts The Jews had not the Law but then their own traditions mingled There is one Lord one Faith not two Master Ley's Resolution page 10. Things of lesser moment in it though they are not directly from Scripture yet not repugnant they are of Prudence and agreeable to the best Reformed Churches Reply But Why of lesser moment All things are of moment of spirituals Indeed if they be such as be not the Gospel s they are then as you say of lesser moment and yet of moment too in another sense for Traditions of men make void the Commandements of God Nor are the grounds of Prudence any Scripture-grounds to rule by Prudence hath let in more Will-worship then any thing Prelacy had its Prudence for every New additionall in Worship and Government And if Presbytery take Prudence too let the Reader judge what may follow And what is that Not directly from Scripture yet not repugnant Surely Christ's rule is not such he opposes any Tradition to the Commandements of God Not directly from Scripture is repugnant to Scripture Such is the onenesse entirenesse indivisibility and essentiality of the Truth He that is not with me is against me And for the Reformed Churches as a rule that is to set the Sun by the Dyall and not the Dyall by the Sun We must set the Churches by the Word and not Church by Church and the Word by the Church Master Ley's Resolution page 10. 11. Because the practice of the Government belongs not to the peoples part but to the Ministers and Elders Because so far as concerns the peoples compliance they are to be instructed before they yeeld submission Because if any
Pastors I write against but the way There may be a Moses in Pharaohs Court a Ioseph in Poâ—phar's house a Cornelius or devout man though out of the Church a Luther even in Rome till the Lord enlighten So as government and discipline is a Churches right and priviledge not the worlds and Nations priviledges as so and then Where are all your quoted Texts which are applied Surely that of Corinth is the Churches and that of Ezekiel and Proverbs makes not for the discipline of a Church at all Master Ley's Resolution Page 16 17. He makes a comparison betwixt materiall and spirituall buildings as stone and timber should not be clapt together in the one soone in the other 1. Similitudes may illustrate but not prove any thing 2. Conformity betwixt materiall and spirituall things is not to be carried too far 3. In materiall buildings or the Temple there is not only squared stones but peeces and rubbish which have their use not so in the spirituall all things there are homogeneall and square and living stones c. 4. Those that he accounts rough and unsquared are in some conformity though not so polished as others 5. The best stones are not to be taken from the rest to make up a building by themselves as in seperated Congregations 6. Let him shew any such example in the New Testament where when there was a mixture of holy and prophane as in Corinth i Cor. 11. 21. the Apostles gathered out the holy part 7. That of Axes and Hammers hath a mysterious truth in it but not to his purpose viz. That the spirituall building is built of the soft and secret whispers and motions of the spirit Reply To that of the similitudes I fully agree with you they illustrate better then they prove To that of not carrying a conformity betwixt materials and spirituals too high I agree with you in that too yet not so fully for Iesus Christ the great Prophet of the Gospell preached the glory of the Kingdome in materiall comparisons in salt water leven mustard-seed sowers husbandmen vines vineyards c. To that of spirituall buildings which you say are to be made up only of squared living stones I agree with you and here the controversie might be ended If your Temples shall be of living stones the controversie is granted But because I will not seem to mistake you I beleeve the spirituall building you mean and I are not the same here You mean as it appears the invisible spirituall or Church mysticall and yet there all is not so Homogeneall and of the same kind neither The head of the body is both God and man and one member like one star differs from another in glory But we are speaking of the spirituall building or Church here which is the Image of the Church above and as that is of true reall essentially spirituall living stones so the Church below is to consist at least of such as visibly and formally appeare so and therefore the Apostle cals them in his Epistles Saints and called to be Saints And to that of your peeces of Rubbish in the materiall building It is true But what is that to Salomons Temple which my comparison drives up to How much Rubbish can you prove in that type nay square stones pure Cedar gold c. to figure out the Gospell-building or Temple as in Heb. 9. So as your rubbish is only in your owne allusion not in mine To that of your unpolished stones in your Parishes which may fit the Temple now I answer It must be then only such a building as the materiall one you speake on which is made up of rubbish and broken peeces and if that be according to Christs patern let these Scriptures in the margin with many more determine And for their submitting indeed there is a nationall blinde traditionall obedience in them I cannot call it Gospell submission To that of the best stones not to be taken out to make up a building I answer I am sure we are to take in no ill unhewne unpolished and the Scripture cautions and practise are cleare c. then judge you what the stones must be Nor doe we so picke and chuse as if all stones were to be square alike or equally polished that is not in any materiall building Though we would take in no rubbish yet we take in stores differently squared As in the body one member differs from another the eye and hand and foot c. and members lesse honourable 1 Cor. 12. so in the body of the Church every one according to his measure and as every one hath received Nor do we stand so for the first polishing as you pretend You make as if we set up such degrees of perfection as were only the degrees of the invisible or mysticall body when it is meerly in the degrees of visible Gospell-perfection By this you would make the carnall to abhor and the weaker to stumble and be offended as if the doore of our Churches were not open for any such whom you imply were of a temper meerly Spirituall and of a size of our owne not the Scriptures Let the doores of our Churches be as strait as you imply I am sure your doors are set open or rather cast off the hinges but a pure Gospel-entrance is neither too wide nor too narrow We know there is smoaking flax and bruised reeds measures of grace If they can willingly submit to Iesus Christ their Law-giver and walk as members of the body here they may receive polishing and have honour and building up and many other degrees of perfection which the Saints of God obtaine when they are in fellowship with the Father and the Son To that of your challenge that I should shew any such example in the New â—â—stament of taking out the best when there was a mixture of holy and prophane I answer Those were Gospel-Churches gathered by the Word and Spirit into Gospel-fellowship and when you make your Parishes to appeare such Churches then I shall tell you more till then I suspend your challenge The world and an Antichristian Nation are both under Christs fan for gathering them out To that of a mysterious truth you speak on in the Axes and Hammers I agree with you in that and because of the mystery I therefore quoted it And whereas you summe up all the mystery into the soft whisperings and motions of the Spirit you can hardly warrant us or secure us that your interpretation is the whole mind of the Spirit and that very interpretation of yours is part of it the very same I aime at viz. to shew how the Gospel-building is softly gathered and made up by the Ministery of the Word and Spirit and not with Axes and Hammers tools of a compulsive forcing sharp and authoritative nature as c. Master Ley's Resolution Page 17 18 19. For that of his c. whore he makes Christs description of himself c. to be against the establishment
hath it not a Jus divinum a Divine Right put upon it if all be of the Holy Ghost in it But I would not mistake you you say only that all is by the dictate of the Holy Ghost of the Assembly and Parliament So it is but part then by your own confession of the Holy Ghost the rest is of the Assembly and Parliament You say The builders have had speciall regard to Jesus Christ the Foundation I will not suspect the Counsels and Debates of any of the builders I know the Disciples of Christ were true Disciples though they had not all of the Spirit at one time which they had at another I hope and I pray that the Lord will make up to the builders what of the Spirit he hath not given them that they may both see to build right and see where they have builded wrong and so pull down againe as well as set up And whereas you say The building may go on by Master Saltmarsh his own consent I say your building will go on it seems whether Master Saltmarsh consent or no. Master Ley in his capacity is better able to put it on at this time then Master Saltmarsh is to put it off to another time unlesse the Lord who is above all and hath the mighty even the Princes of the earth to command work for his own glory above all that we can or think Master Ley's Resolution pag. 38 39 40. To the second Objection and Answer of Heresies and Schisms and so they might have done from Iohn's first Sermon he saith 1. Why doth he begin with Iohns first Sermon Were not the Esseans c. Hereticks and Schisma icks See Epiphanius c. 2. He makes Pauls Epistles the terminus ad quem which from John's first Sermon to the last make up Twenty nine yeers After the Epistles he brings in the sending the Spirit c. which was but five yeares after the first Sermon of John Baptist 3. Before the end of the Epistles that Government was not which we find in Scripture and if so the Church-Government was not long suspended 4. Nor would it prejudice our expedition People of that Age could not be so easily gathered as with us they may be 5. What was long in establishing in Primitive times cannot be said to be hastily done now after so many discussions and deliberate resolutions Reply You say first Why begin I for Hereticks and Schismaticks from John's first Sermon I begin there because there began the mystery of the Gospell And yet I shew you that no Government began with that Gospell manifestation by which I made appeare that if Government had been of such morall necessity why was it not given out with the Gospels first giving out Now you prove in a chronologicall discourse the space of time from Johns Sermon to Pauls Epistle to make the time appeare for Government And after you have summed up all the time and periods and find it no two or three yeers work you conclude People of that age could not be so easily gathered as now Nor the long establishing then to be an hasty establishing now And now after all this discourse and ravellings out of time from Johns Sermon c. What have you gained Not that the Government was soon setled Then you have proved much to my advantage and in a clearer and fuller computation then I did the contrary So as you have only been taking some learned paines if you well observe and the Reader well observe you to prove that the Government at first was not suddenly cast into modell nor brought forth in practise which is the very thing I aimed at and truly your pains in it have been more exact then mine and I thank you for it But you say It ought not to be so now nor can it be said to be hastily done now that was done so long ago You say true in that But you know the same Spirit must reveale it that formed it and it formed it at first by degrees and the way of Revelation hath been more year's then the first farming reckon but your Antichristian years as exactly as you have done your first Christian and Primitive yeares and you may be more satisfied So as all both the first Revelation of it from Prophesies and the latter from Antichristianism makes all for the not hastening which I aimed at Indeed if you can as infallibly assure us this forme and modell is the very forme then given out it were very true that you say That it cannot be said to be hastily done now what was done so long agoe viz. If it be that very one which was done so long ago For your exception against me concerning my placing the giving of the Spirit so late if you interpret sense by the strict order of words you will lose many a Scripture truth in the words as you well know Master Ley's Resolution Page 40 41. To that of Heresies c. he saith What if they do not ster up their Patrons against the State c. but they busily poyson the soules of the people and shall they if as Paul Best be suffered to blaspheme and reproach and perturb the publike Peace An Indulgence much like old Elies c. If Truth be not more precious then Peace why doth our Saviour say He came not to send peâ—ce And why do the Fathers contend so against the Arrians about a letter And why we so with the Romish Religion rather then be at peace with them For that of morall transgressions he would have the Magistrates set on Set on By whom We have not such meane thoughts of the Magistrate as to make mention of him in such terms of disparagement And for all his Disciplines regulating men for religious walking there will be worke enough for the Magistrate to bring them under civill tryall for câ—ntumaâ—ie c. Reply You say What If hereâ—ies stir not up they poyson souls If they poyson let the Gospel-antidote be applied then and no other way which the Gospell will not beare noâ— allow there is the sword of the Spirit and weapons not carnall but mighty and spirituall For that of old Elies indulgences which you speak on you are still looking upon Moses though you tell us of Christ Make the Kingdome of Israel and of England the same a Iewish and Christian State the same and then we shall allow you both Elies sin and his sons maintenance by tythes offerings You say Truth is more precious then peace yet there is a peace precious as well as Truth even the Peace of Christ as well as the Truth of Christ But to the businesse You would prove Truth to be precious to the disadvantage of Peace and therefore you bring in the Fathers against the Arrians and us against the Papists and Christ against Peace But what would you prove Would you prove that truth ought to be established against peace and peace to be no way to truth Surely truth and
peace doe meet together nay they are so much one as there is even a truth in peace He that was Truth it self could say My Peace I leave with you But What of the contention spoken on of the Fathers and â—â— c. If there be any quarrelling for Truth either by the Fathers or us but in a Gospel-way we are not excusable neither doth Christ speak of truths drawing swords but of swords drawn against truth which is no Argument for you When Peter would draw a sword in the defence of truth Christ bid him put it up So far is he against your way of defending truth You say By whom should Magistrates be set on and that you cannot speak in such disparaging words By whom be set on By the legislative power by the Parliament The Parliament can set on their respective Committees Iustices c. and is this any disparagement I speak of subordinate Magistrates not of the supream You say There will be worke for the Magistrate enough to punish the contumacious c. That is in English the Presbytery will keep the Magistracy doing and now who disparages the Magistrate Who set them on work Who makes them their Deputy-punishers Nay Who is the Satan to whom the excommunicate are delivered It is an expression not much besides your principles and who disparages the Magistrate in that Master Ley's Resolution Page 41 42. To that of Truth being otherwise armed from Heaven I answer We thinke it not meet to divide the subservient means from the supreme power nor the exercise of Discipline from his assistance who can make it effectuall the sword of God and Gideon To that of the imputation of jealousie c. There is a godly jealousie which would set up as many securities as may be against Heresie and impiety The faulty jealousie is theirs that would stiffle the Government but there is a fear which we professe of Gods anger for connivance and communion with hereticall men c. There is in some an aversenesse to Heresie in a trne zeal and love of God There be many other causes of jealousie but I will take but that one of the Lords and Commons p. 43. If Master Saltmarsh â—ad well considered who were engaged c. he would not have undervalued their piety and prudence to compare them with Papists and Prelates I will conclude with a peece of his own politick advice c. Vpon such principles is Church-Government ordained for his Text out of the Revelation Rev. 18. 1. As he began so he ends with mis-application of Scripture Reply You say you cannot divide Discipline from his assistance who can make it effectuall That is from the Magistrates This is a signe without further Argument that you do not hold your government for Christs because it cannot be effectuall of it self without help from below and the world and to another power then its own nor is the sword of God and Gideon any faire and just proof for joyning Presbytery and Magistracy it joynes only God and the Magistrates You say Your godly jealousie will set up as many securities as may be But then they are warrantable and Gospel-wayes of security That is no godly jealousie which sets up other wayes as Herod killing all the children to secure his Kingdome David dissembling to escape Iacob to get a blessing there is jealousie but no godly jealousie nor warrantable security So to secure any way though of truth by a power not allowed on in the Gospell as no such compulsive power is in your way is not to be jealous with a godly jealousie though I deny not but some of those may be godly who are so jealous but not in that You say that some fear Gods anger for their communion with Hereticks c. You know all such feare is only warrantable in the Church not in the world It is not so with the Nations now as with the Iews Now if we have not communion with them in the Nation we must goe out of the world But What communion is this you meane that will bring Gods anger You have your liberty to withdraw to separate as they from you If it be nationall or civill communion then you pluck up the tares before the time of harvest But whom you esteem Hereticks they it may be think they have as good Scriptures to esteem you so and this is Heretick for Hereticks interpretation against interpretation And since there is only a sufficiency but no infallibility now as before since there is no Apostles for interpretation as at first for Revelation why do we thus cry out Hereticks Hereticks the Sword the Sword Let me put one Question here Suppose those you call Hereticks were of equall number to you and both of you equally numbred with Magistrates and both of you equally principled for persecution and both equally calling out for the Magistrates Sword What clashing of swords would there be What edge against edge What authority against authority What power against power What bloudy doings What sad workings What confusion would there be This is an Image of your Incorporation of your two powers that you so plead for in this kind If we were equally principled and armed for persecution as you are and acted by your spirit Ah what a Kingdome would here be You say Some have aversenesse to Heresie in a true zeale to God These are but generall notions of Heresie Every thing is not Heresie that is called so And for true zeal to God in that aversenesse all this is granted if that be Heresie indeed But how if it be such a zeal as Paul saith the â—ewes had a zeal but not according to knowledge how if it be such a zeal to God as crucified the Sonne of God and such a zeal there hath been we know The Iews did much in zeal to Truth even against Truth But you close up with that of the Lords and Commons in an Ordinance c. I am afraid these are such proofs as you intend most in your Presbytery to make your supplement to Scripture from Authority and so to make us beleeve what you cannot perswade us to beleeve and to make it out by an Ordinance what you want by Scripture But I hope that honourable Senate will rather let you argue from the Scripture against us then from their Authority But I have not to doe here with answering Ordinances of Parliament I contend not but submit to them in every Ordinance for the Lords sake nor doth my Argument lie against any thing of theirs but yours I dare not undervalue them to count them as Parties but Iudges in out difference I appeal to the Parliament as to Caesar nor in it a faire proofe of Truth to draw the Magistrates Sword out of the Scabbard You say You wonder considering who was ingaged I would so undervalue them to compare them with Papists and Prelates I did consider who was ingaged a Parliament c. and had I not highly valued
be no prejudice to the Truth BVt he upbraids us with our Divisions and Subdivisions and so doe the Papists upbraid the Protestants with their Lutheranisme Calvinisme and Zuinglianisme and this is that the Heathens objected to the Christians their fractures were so many they knew not which Religion to chuse if they should turne Christians And can it be expected that the Church in any age should be free from Divisions when the times of the Apostles were not free and the Apostle tels us it must needs be that there be Divisions In Greg. Nazian his daies there were sixe hundred errours in the Church do these any waies â—erogate from the truth and worth of Christian Religion Quaere 1. Whether are not Divisions and Subdivisions objected now to all that are dissenting Brethren from the present waâ— of Church-government and whether are Divisions any more scandall to Religion now then before 2. Whether is Independancy Anabaptism Brownism Seekers of more evill report now then Lutheranism Calvinism Zuinglianism formerly 3. Whether is an hundred and eighty opinions as some would reckon them more to be cast in the face of Religion now then sixe hundred in the daies of Nazianzen 4. Whether is this faire dealing for Brethren to make Apologies for divisions and severall opinions when they are oppressed and to turne back in accusations upon their Brethren when the oppression is off from themselves 2 Stinted Formes not to be imposed The validity of which plea your Honours are best able to judge and therefore we leave it at your Barre Yet these two things wâ— know first that this forme viz. of Liturgie was never established to be so punctually observed so rigorously pressed to the casting out of all that scruple it or any thing in it Quaere 1. If former Liturgies were never established to be so punctually observed why is there such pressing now for establishment of Formes now to be observed in Worship and Discipline seeing the former Divines walkt as they thought by as true a light then as the Divines of this age do now 2. If Synods did not formerly establish things for such punctuall observations why are there any penalties fines imprisonments called for now upon non-conformity to things established by them 3. Why are the formes composed now so rigorously pressed Vniformity so urged when such practices and designes were condemned but a few yeers since and they who urge it now would scarce then seem to beleeve it to be the mind of former Synods and Parliaments 4. If things were not to be rigorously pressed then to the casting out of any that scruple why now 3. No Formes of Particular men to be imposed on all the rest But if by Lyturgy he understand prescribed and stinted formes of administration composed by some particular men in the Church and imposed upon all the rest as this we must understand or else all he saith is nothing we desire and expect thâ—â— those Formes which he saith are yet extant and ready to be produced might once appeare Quaere 1. If Formes composed by particular men be not to be imposed on all the rest why do the Brethren now urge upon us all and upon all the Kingdome their owne Uniformity and Formes since theirs is no more a Truth to others then others Formes were formerly a Truth to them 2 Whether one Synod of Divines is not as well a few â— compared with all the rest of the Kingdom as another Synod and the same that were but a few 2 sixe yeers since or sixty yeers since but a few 3 still unlesse the same numbers and accounts alter by yeers and seasons and if so what reason is there â—on ones imposing more then anothers since Truth is no more to be reckoned by multitudes and Synods in one age then in another 4. No binding to the use of composed Formes All other Reformed Churches though they use Liturgies yet do not bind Ministers to the use of them Quaere 1. Why doe any Reformed Churches now undertake to bind any to the use of their Formes seeing the Churches formerly durst not usurp it and why under penalties now more then before 2. Whether is that lawfull now which was not foure yeers since and for these Brethren to do which was unlawfull for their Predecessors 5. Severe imposing a sin and a snare That which makes many refuse to be present at our Church service is not only the Liturgie it selfe but the imposing it upon Ministers Quaere 1. If imposing of Formes was a snare before how comes it to be none now 2. If Ministers were not to be compelled then why are they to be compelled now 6. Liberty in use of Formes breeds no disturbance Object If it be objected that this will breed divisions and disturbances in the Churches unlesse there be a uniformity Ans It hath not bred any disturbance in other Reformed Churches Why should the free liberty of using or not using breed moâ—e confusion then the liberty of reading or not reading Homilies especially when Minsters shall teach people not to condemn one another in things indifferent Quaere 1. How comes it to passe that liberty in the use of Formes bred no disturbances before and yet now all is pretended to be undone if uniformity be not preserved 2. Why are Divines more jealous of conscientious and in offensive liberty now that the Government is comming into their own hands then when it was in their Predecessours 3. If Brethren are not to condemn one another in things indifferent why do they teach now a Persecution to all that conform not to things indifferent only but unlawfull as all parts in Worship and Government are which are Devices of men 7. No set Formes for the first 300. years For Christian Liturgies which the Remonstrant had affirmed to have been the best improvement of the peace and happinesse of the Evangelical Church ever since the Apostles times we challenge the Remonstrance setting aside those that are confessedly spurious to produce any Liturgie that was the issue of the first 300. Yeeres Quaere 1. If solemn and set-formes and Directores were excepted against and accused then as no friends to the peace and happinesse of Churches why are they made now the choycest meanes of peace and unity and all those Churches condemned as erronious that are without them 2. If no set-formes can be produced as the issue of the first 300. yeers why are they continued still which hath neither precept from Scriptures nor president from Apostles or Primitive practice to warrant them why are the crimes and will-worship of fore-fathers condemned by their children yet afterwards taken up the fathers eate sowre grapes and the childrens teeth are set on edge 8. Things that even offend Anabaptists are to be removed It is under carefull hands and hearts more mercifull viz. the Parliament then this Remonstrant is to remit troubled consciences to no better cure then Mr
as these are is this faire dealing with the State You have brought forth before Israel and the Sun many pretended sins and crimes of your Brethren Suppose they should write by your Copy and bring forth the Aslembly-sinnes the crimes of all those of your way of all the Divines and others that you take in and rake back into the ashes of their unregenerate condition keep Almanackes for the yeares and dayes of their faylings watch their haltings in all things they say or doe tell all the Stories of them they heare what would the next generation thinke of their Book and yours At this rate of writing they would not reade one honest man of all their forefathers yet this is your course and method I have done for this time and I hope all that are not inchanted with the Gorgons-head of Hereticks and Schismaticks and Church of England as your owne Smectymnians say will reade and judge I had said more to ye had you printed us more Reason and lesse Reviling and something more then Stories and Winter-tales And for our Licenser whom you so rayle at he is so much a friend to all the world of beleevers as to give them the Scripture-liberty of proving and trying all things and not to silence the Presse as some would and as the Prelates did silence the Pulpit And now let any age weighing all the differences excepting the Blasphemies c. and the nature of them nakedly without aggravations and fallacy of words bring forth a Book printed in such Letters of bloud as this Gangraena bind up all the Oxford Aulicusses the Mountagues the Pocklingtons and see if this Gangraena doe not exceed them all this is Persecution and Prelacy sublimate And for all this I would not have the Civill power drawne against you if we had all the Magistrates on our side but rather that you may in the flowings of a more heavenly spirit with your head of waters and your eyes a fountaine of teares write against your owne Book and let the world see that Men in these times are not infallible as you all conclude but may mistake their Brethren for Enemies some Truths for Errours and Zeale for Persecution as the very Jewes did when they crucified Christ as they thought for Blasphemy And some shall kill ye saith Christ and thinke they doe God good service A Parallel between the Prelacy and the Presbytery Quaere VVHether if we should reply to M. Edwards in his owne words and as Salomon saith answer him according to his c. we not compare things as followeth and trace up their proceedings into the very mystery of Prelacy 1. The Prelates were ordained Ministers by the Bishops Quaere Whether may it not be said the Divines that sit now are Ordained by the same power of Bishops to be Ministers and so by that power ordaine others 2. The Prelates when they had made Canons procured the power of the State to impose them upon all the Kingdome Quaere Whether may it not be said the Divines now get the same power to what they decree and accordingly impose them upon the Kingdome 3. The Prelates composed one great Service-booke for direction to Uniformity of worship according as they had ordered under penalties yet without the least word of Scripture to prove the truth of any thing in it Quaere Whether may it not be said Divines have composed one great Booke accordingly now for the like Uniformity viz. the Directory to be observed under fines and penalties and yet without the least word or tittle of Scripture to prove the truth of any thing in it 4. The Prelates ordered that from that Book Prayers should be read to the people Quaere Whether may it not be said the Divines now have not cast the Prayers of the Spirit into such Formes and Methods that a little invention will make them as stinted currant and legible Formes as before and accordingly read in divers places 5. The Prelates counted all that would not conforme to them Schismaticall and Hereticall Quaere Whether may it not be said the Divines now count not all so that will not be uniforme with them 6. The Prelates forbad all to Preach and Print that did not Preach and Print for their way of worship and Government Quaere Whether may it not be said the Divines now would not have all hindred from Pulpit and Presse that will not be of way of Worship and Government with them 7. The Prelates possessed themselves of the States power and favour Quaere Whether may it not be said the Divines now wholly labour after the same interest both in Parliament and other Councles 8. The Prelates had their Licensers to stop all that write against their power and pompe Quaere Whether may it not be said the Divines now labour to ingrosse the power of licensing only to themselves 9. The Prelates had for part of their Government Fines Pillories Whips Imprisonment Quaere Whether may it not be said the Divines now have those very things for part of theirs 10. The Prelates had Parishes for their Churches and Tythes for their maintenance Quaere Whether may it not be said the Divines now have the same Parishes now for Churches the same Tythes for maintenance 11. The Prelates called all other meetings but their Parish-meetings Conventicles Quaere Whether may it not be said the Divines now call the Churches and people that meet now together apart from them Conventicles as formerly 12. The Prelates called the Non-conformists factious troublers of the State Quaere Whether may it not be said the Divines now doe accordingly call any that write or oppose their Presbytery factious and State-troublers 13. The Prelates ever accused their Non-conforming Brethren to the King and Councell Quaere Whether may it not be said the Divines now accordingly accuse their Non-conforming Brethren to the Parliament and other Councels 14. The Prelates had a designe to send all their Non-conformed Brethren to strange Kingdomes as New-England Quaere Whether may it not be said the Divines now endeavour to send their Non-conforming Brethren to other places out of the Kingdome 15. The Prelates ingrossed all the Preaching and preferring Divines to all places of honour and popularity in the Kingdome to themselves Quaere Whether may it not be said the Divines now doe accordingly preferre to all places of publike trust honour and imploiment as Universities Navy Armies Garrison-Towns Counties Cities c 16. The Prelates would not suffer men whom they called Lay-men to speake of the Scriptures Quaere Whether may it not be said the Divines now doe forbid and contemne all Lay-mens gifts in the same manner 17. The Prelates would not suffer any to goe from the Parish-Minister Quaere Whether may it not be said the Divines now accordingly labour to have all keep to their Parishes 18. The Prelates called Truths which they received not New Lights Errours Quaere Whether may it not be said the Divines now accordingly call all things they
receive not New Lights Whimsies Errours 19. The Prelates laboured to scandalize their Non-conforming Brethren with Nick-names c. Quaere Whether may it not be said the Divines now accordingly labour to make their Non-conforming Brethren vile and scandalous to the Kingdome Ezek. 18 2. Thus the Fathers have eaten sowre grapes and the childrens teeth are set on edge Thus if we would compare crimes and times we might write and speak Quaere Whether M. Edwards in reekoning up divers things for Errors hath not much aspersed his owne Brethren Doctor Twisse M. Gattaker and many others in many Doctrinall points they hold The Testimony of M. Samuel Rutherford one of the Scotch Commâ—ssioners in the last Page of his Epistle to the Reader in his Booke Intituled The Divine Right of Church-Government and Excommunication No incroaching on Christs Prerogative BUt it is a Controversie say some whether the Government of the Church of the New Testament belong to the Magistrate or to the Church To which I say 1. It was a controversie created by men willing to please Princes with more power in the Courts of Christ then ever the Lawgiver and Apostles gave them and that against the minde of glorious Lights the first Reformers and the whole Troop of Protestant Divines who studied the Controversie against the usurped Monarchy of the man of sin more exactly then one Physitian who in a cursory way diverted off his Road of Medicine of which he wrote learnedly and broke in on the by upon the deepest Polemicks of diyinity and reached a riders blow unawares to his Friends 2. In things doubtfull conscience hath refuge to the surest side Now it s granted by all and not controverted by any that in the Apostolike Church the government of the Church of the New Testament was in the hands of Apostles Pastors Teachers and therefore Conscience would sway to that in which there can be no Error except on supposall of abuse and Christian Rulers would not doe well to venture upon Eternity wrath the judgement to come confiding on the poore plea of an Erastian distinction to incroach upon the Prerogative Royall of Jesus Christ FINIS THese Reasons tending not only to the sweetning of the TWO KINGDOMES England and Scotland the Parliament and Dissenting Brethren on both sides in the Assembly each to other but also to the preserving a Just Liberty for them all respectively I commend to the Presse March 30. 1646. IOHN BACHILER THE DIVINE RIGHT OF PRESBYTERY Asserted by the present Assembly and Petitioned for accordingly to the Honourable House of Commons in PARLIAMENT With REASONS Discussing this pretended Divine-Right and yet with tendernesse to the Brethren of the Presbyteriall way Pleading for a Liberty of Conscience for them in this their Opinion as for others of their Dissenting Brethren and equally for both With Inferences upon their late PETITION By John Saltmarsh Preacher of the Gospell Rev 2. 2. Thou hast tried those that say they are Apostles but are not LONDON Printed for Giles Calvert at the Black Spread-Eagle at the West end of PAULS 1646. To those Brethren of the Assembly of Divines Petitioners who are for the pretended Divine Right of the present PRESBYTERY BRETHREN Meeting ye but of the Assembly or that bounder appointed ye by Parâ— I cannot justly be denied this reasoning with ye for the Ordinance by which ye sit doth enable ye only to advise of things propounded but not to propound or demand any as ye have done of late so as in this ye have brought your selves down to the same magnitude with us that are private men Here is the difference now Ye are many of better parts and abilities I am as one borne out of duetime yet the same Covenant is upon me with your selves nor ought I because I am but one presume to see Truth more then one because ye are many Nay it is that voyce from the excellent glory which both you and I must heare and which can only teach us Truth It is not the voyce of any other And surely since Truth hath had its lot in the world to lâ—ve upon voyces in Assemblies and Synods where that is only Truth which is voted so and not in its own glory and evidence where that is only Truth which is so The Mystery of iniquity hath been more advanced then the Mystery of godlinesse THE DIVINE RIGHT Of Presbytery c. With Reasons discussing this pretended DIVINE RIGHT FIrst They who are the Presbyters in this present Presbytery pretend to be Presbyters by a power of Ordination from Bishops as the Bishops were Presbyters and if so they are to make it appeare that there is a true personall succession of Ministery from the Apostles and that they doe lineally succeed without interruption for in succession unlesse there be a certain perpetuall and personall derivation of power there can be no certainty nor infallibility of the truth of such a power and whether the proof of this drawes not with it a necessary and perpetuall visibility of a Church contrary to the opinion of all the Reformed Divines and further a truth of Church-Ministery and Ordinances of Jesus Christ in the Antichristian State from whence this Ministery of theirs comes by which they stand present Presbyters and how any true Ministery can be found in that very Antichristian State which is called the man of sin the mystery of iniquity the Whore of Babylon the falling away and how the same State can be both meerly Antichristian and Christian a Whore of Babylon and a Spouse of Iesus Christ a Ministery of God and a mystery of iniquity a Temple of God and of Idols I leave it to be judged 2. That these present pretended-Presbyters cannot be found true Presbyters but by such a personall and successively derived power will appeare from their present Modell of Ordination they allowing and accounting none for Presbyters or Ministers but such as are sent out by their personall Ordination or were formerly ordained by Bishops so as they make these and these must make others and thus their power is derived from a personall and lineall succession and demonstratively proved from their owne practice nor will it help them that Iesus Christ alwayes had a Church or some invisible Saints under Antichrist because they must both prove themselves and the Episcopall Ministery to succeed that very Church or those very invisible Saints and that that Church or those very Saints were Presbyters or Ministers for we know men may be Saints but not sent or ministerially Saints sent good men but not good Presbyters as in their owne way of practice will more appeare for if any should now call himself a true Presbyter or Minister he must prove his sending to them by a personall Ordination which proof of their Ordination we demand from them as they would doe now from any others 3. How these things can stand together That the Divine Right is in the Congregationall Presbytery as they
of Dominion ruling conventing excommunicating in each Objection But how will you do to satisfie Parliament Presbyterials and other dissenting Brethren Answ Not that I will determine but propound for the Parliament It appeares that the State-conscience according to the present corrupt constitution both of Ministers and Elders and People of this Kingdom cannot yeeld a Divine Right to a Presbytery so constituted and therefore they are not to be forced to the judgement of the present Assembly no more then the Assembly do desire to be forced themselves to their judgment and therefore each is to enjoy their liberty in the Lord as they are perswaded The State is to enjoy their liberty in their judgement of no Divine Right in this present Presbytery The Assembly may enjoy theirs in their judgement of a pretended Divine Right or Presbytery in all Congregations which will conscienciously practice with them not seeking to make the State subservient to them by their Civill power which no Scripture practice will warrant from any Eldership or Presbytery there and thus the French Churches enjoy the Presbytery at this day having no Civill power to help them And the other dissenting Brethren may enjoy their Divine Right too being as fully perswaded from Scripture of theirs as the other are of theirs and equally live under the same liberty and not trouble the State with any thing but their prayers and obedience Objection But the Brethren of the Assembly expect the Parliament should joyne with their results Answ I know not why they should expect that for they are no more infallibly gifted then their Brethren that they should expect more from the State then they Their Ministery is as questionable Their Interests are more in the world then the Interests of the first Presbyters were as in their maintenance by Tythes and in their power of Classicall Provinciall Nationall the Kingdom being thus corrupted and in that subserviency and power of compulsion they demand of the Magistrate and Princes of the world And why our dissenting Brethren may not with as much justice honor conscience desire the State to settle such a Gospell-order as they beleeve to be true the other being no more enabled to demand of the State any power for imposing their conclusions true by a power of the States own giving by Ordinance And whether the State seeing no infallibility of spirit in any of all sides since what the Truth which they hold bring in its own evidence and demonstration before them ought to be pressed as bound to one by any Interest more then to another save that of Truth I leave to be considered and then what reason the Brethren have thus to presse their supposed Divine Right I desire to know Objection Whether is this to settle things according to Covenant Answ Yea The Covenant binds us to Vniformity but then that clause According to the Word of God doth restraine the Vniformity to the light which each Kingdom sees by according to that Word and therefore our Brethren of Scotland see Presbytery in one degree the Hollanders in another and the French in another and at this time England in another and yet all should be one in that clause of the Covenant viz. to defend each other in their degrees of Reformation against the common enemy We Scotland and Scotland us and what a comely thing it is for Brethren to dwell together in Unity though they cannot in Uniformity The Last Petition of the Assembly for Divine Right in their present Presbytery with Inferences upon it Petition THat the Provisions of Commissioners to judge the scandals not numerated appeares to our consciences to be so contrary to that way of Government which Christ hath appointed in his Church Inference Whence we may inferre that the Assembly do suppose the Parliament and Commissioners to be far below the Ministers and Eldership in spirituall gifts and discerning which I suppose cannot be well presumed considering the Assembly and Eldership now is not annointed with that pure spirit and gifts as the first were but with habits of Arts and Sciences and with some measure of the Spirit which many both of the Parliament and Commissioners both may be and are enabled with as well as they and whether is not this to set up the old distinstion of Layty and Clergy and to set the present Eldership and Presbytery upon a higher Forme then the Magistrate seeing the gifts are not so distinct as at first why should the Offices be so distinct Petition In that it giveth a power to judge of the fitnesse of Persons Inference Whence we may inferre that they presume themselves to be that very Ministery and Eldership of Jesus Christ though both their Ministery is by Bishops and their Elders by a prudentiall constitution and election at this present and may not the Magistrate who is unquestionably the power of God Rom. 13. appointed to be Judge of good and evill more lawfully judg oâ— sins and Gospell-Rules then they who are a questionable Ministery and Eldership in this present Presbytery Petition And to be so differing from all examples of the best Reformed Churches and such a reall kinderance to the bringing the Churches of God in the three Kingdoms to the nearest conjunction and uniformity and in all those respects so disagreeable to our Covenant Inference Whence we may inferre that if all do not beleeve as one beleeve it is pretended that all are in breach of Covenant and thus the Covenant is made a snare by interpretation and principles of spirituall compulsion implyed in the Covenant contrary to the Spirits wisdom who both allowes and advises the severall statures and measures of light the weak and strong and whether the Communion by unity is not a glorious supplement to the Rent of Vniformity that of Vnity being in the Spirit that of Vniformity in the Letter and why should our Brethren thus bring down the State and Kingdom more to other Reformed Kingdoms or not rather raise up the other Reformed Kingdoms to this and if any thing be revealed more to this Kingdom that hath sit by this long time why should not the other hold their peace and beleeving Kingdomes as Beleevers walke one with another so far as they have attained and wherein they have not the Lord shall reveale even this unto them not but that this Kingdome ought to forme it selfe into any Communion with the rest so far as their Communion excels and so the other into Communion with this so far as this excels and both so farre to one another as they are perswaded not compelled which are no Arguments for Faith but Formality Petition Do humbly pray that the severall Elderships may be sufficiently enabled Inference Whence we may inferre that their whole endeavour is to raise up the Interest of the Eldership and Presbytery into a distinct sole and Independent body and power which how conformable and obedient and consistent it may prove to and with the power of the State
in one and the same Kingdom would be considered when such an Interest growâ—s up from its infancy and first Reformation into a fuller and more perfect man And whether their petitioning of a power from the State to compleat and make them an Eldership and Presbytery doth not imply a power in the State more or rather as fully Ecclesiasticall as their Presbytery for can the State give them any Ecclesiasticall power and have none it selfe so as according to these Principles the State is Ecclesiastical as well as they and so not to be denied the power of Commissioning with them or else t is a meere contradiction to pray for power from those to their Eldership and Presbytery which they say is a Government and Power entirely Ecclesiasticall and compleat in it selfe and so as they either pray for that which they have of their own already or else pray for that from the State which they cannot give them Petition It belongs unto them by Divine Right and by the Will and appointment of Jesus Christ which with the help of superiour Assemblies in cases of appeale or in all administrations therein will prevent through the blessing of God all the feared inconveniences Inference Whence we may infer that the Presbytery and Eldership of a Congregation is of Divine Right c. yet that Divine Right is perfected and compleated by that which is not of as pure Divine Right as it selfe viz. Superiour Assemblies and so becomes neither purely Prudentiall nor Divine but Mixt and so is neither good Divine nor good Humane Right Petition And the Magistrate to whom we professe the Church to be accountable for their proceedings in all their Elderships and Church Assemblies and punishable by him with Civill censures for their miscarriages Inference Whence we may inferre that the Civill Magistrate is neither over nor under the Presbytery and where they place it who can tell by this Petition of theirs for over it the Magistrate is not for they say Commissioners over them are not sufferable and under it they say the Magistrate is not for their Eldership and Presbytery are to be accountable to the Civill power for their miscarriages and how at the same time they should subject their Churches in their mal Administrations to the Magistrates power of judging and yet challenge such an entire sole supreame and Ecclesiasticall Judicature is a mystery becomming the learning of that same Assembly to reveale which first begun it Principles against the Divine Right o◠〈…〉 present Presbytery extracted from the Reasons 1. THey are no such Presbyters of Jesus Christ as the first were because ordained by an Antichristian power of Bishops nor were Bishops true Presbyteres nor those who joyned with them in their Ordination who were made by them nor is there any succession of Ordination but it implies both a Perpetuall Visible Church and a true Church Ministery and Ordinances under Antichrist which all are to be proved by them 2. If there were any such true Church invisible under Antichrist to which they succeed in their Ministery then it must appeare that they succeed that very invisible Church and that that very invisible Church had a true Ministery or Presbytery in it for men may be Saints or good men yet not good Presbyters or Ministerially sent 3. As they now in their practice will not account any for true Presbyters but such who can prove to them their personall Ordination from them so we demand of these Presbyters an account of their personall succession accordingly which personall succession if it be false and interrupted any where in the Line must needs be all false from such a point where the first interruption was made 4. Though Christs promise is enough to ground a perpetuity of Church and Christs presence yet not of his promise made good to such particular men or to their pretended succession 5. They that challenge a Divine Right to the power they act by must act by a gift as Divine and infallible as their right and power and thus did the primitive Presbyters and Elders therefore the gift being but mixt their right or power is but mixt accordingly and not Divine 6. They who were Elders or Presbyters in the first Churches as Ierusalem c. were gifted by a spirit which taught the very infallible Word which is now written or Scripture and so they then did constitute advise counsell in the place of this written Word and all Scripture Formes and Institutions were then in the gift and persons but no such thing can be said of any Eldership or Presbytery of men now 7. They who set up an Eldership or Presbytery now of Divine Right to constitute ordaine counsell c. do joyne to the Word written or infallible Scripture a Power lesse infallibly gifted who by such a Divine Right and Power pretended shall controle the Word of Truth by Interpretations of that Word lesse then Truth which is not consistent with the glory of the Word 8. There is no Eldership or Presbytery in Scripture but either the Churches Act did precede it act it or accompany it by precept or practice which makes the Divine Right of the Presbytery questionable uncertain unsafe because of a contrary Scripture and Precept 9. The Eldership and Presbytery which are brought for instances are questionable first for the Persons who were not such very Presbyters as they would imply but Apostles Evangelists c. or otherwise ordained either by Apostles or Church or otherwise gifted by speciall unction or else an Eldership of eminency not of Office 10. They hold this Divine Right is in the first subject in the Congregationall Presbytery and yet they set up a Classicall Provinciall Nationall Presbytery to compleat and controle this of the Congregationall and how this their Divine Right can be subjected thus to a Right lesse Divine is unreasonable and unscripturall to imagine 11. Suppose such a power as a Nationall Presbytery collected from all parts of the Kingdom every Congregation having an Interest or part there and this Presbytery so Nationall and Collective informed by a Divine Right for judging sins c. shall not this Nationall Presbytery take cognizance of States if sinning Ecclesiastically as well as others and if so what proceeding what cenâ—ures will follow from such a body as universall as the body of that State and of as much Interest in the Kingdom as they and of more interest by how much more Divine a Right they act by and by how much neerer they are seated to the conscience and how Kingdoms have been embroyled by such an Ecclesiasticall Interest Histories will tell ye 12. So as in this straite when Parliament is perswaded of no Divine Right Assembly of a Divine Right and the Dissenting brethren of another Divine Right is not the way this to let the Parliament have their Liberty of Conscience to settle no Divine Right by a power and the Assembly to use their Liberty in a Divine Right with all that
the Presbytery before ye in the Prelacy Therefore consider things 10. That these Ministers though some of them were old Non-conformists and have a power of God in them which I desire to love under any Forme yet according to their Interests they are not so nor to the flesh they are not so and it is their old man I write against not their new so far as they are men and so far as they are persecuters so far as they are lovers of gaine not of godlinesse so far as they are accusers of their Brethren so far as they are in the Forme of Godlinesse not in the power Therefore consider these men are not all spirit and truth we are not to call one of them Iubiter nor the other Mercurius They are men of like passions with us and ye and the worst I wish saving their humour of Persecution is that the Lord would make them love us in the Spirit and we shall in all love allow them their Formes To Mr. GATAKER SIR I Hope I shall answer all things materiall in your Book but your Margin I shall not meddle with I observe you commonly in all your books fill that with things and Authors of little value to Christ crucified As in your last leafe where you quote Sophecles the Poet comparing your selfe to an old prancing horse I should not rebuke your yeers but that I find you Comicall and Poeticall and for my part I am now ashamed to own those Raptures though I am young having tasted straines of a more glorious Spirit how much more you that are old and call your selfe a Divine ought not to have any fruit in those things I hope I shall be in no more passion with you than with your Brother of the Assembly Mr Ley. I write to edifie not to conquer nor to teach others but that we may be all taught of God JOHN SALTMARSH To the Author of the PLEA for the Congregationall or as he should have said Parishionall Government SIR A word to you the Author of the Plea You have so entangled and wrapped your selfe in the Congregationall and Church-principles as if you meant to engage me at once against your Presbytery and the dissenting Brethren But that Spirit which makes me oppose you makes me discerne your designe and so I hope I shall single you from them though you have cloathed your selfe in their Apologeticall Narration yet I must deale with you as your self and your Brethren not as theirs and it is but a little I have to say to you But why no Name Is your Divine Right so questionable that you will not own it or are you one of them that sit too neare it to commend it with open face and think you may better and more modestly do it in disguise and without a name Had I not some reason to suspect it came from some of that sort I had passed it by with as little noise as it came abroad And I have but little to say to you now I cannot stand long wrangling in things that grow clearer and clearer every day for the day breaks and the shadowes flie away SHADOWES FLYING AWAY Or A Reply to Master Gataker's Answer to some passages in Master Saltmarsh his Booke of FREE-GRACE Master Gataker 1 THat he was traduced by one Master John Saltmarsh a man unknown to him save by one or two Pamphlets as witnessing to the Antinomian party 2 That he must unbowell and lay open some of the unsound stuffe 3 That some think they have found out a shorter cut to Heaven 4 That my inferences upon his words are not true nor as he intended As if a Protestant with a Papist disputing about the Masse should say the Controversie is not concerning the nature of Sacraments c. Answ To the first that you were traduced by me Let not you and I be judge of that both our Books are abroad and I have quoted your words to the very leafe where they are Your meaning I could not come at the deep things of the heart are out of the power of anothers quotation For my selfe unknown to you but by two Pamphlets I take your sleighting I could call your Treatises by a worse name then Treatises for I knew one of them some yeers since that of Lâ—ts wherein you defended Cards and Dice-playing And it had been happy for others as well as my selfe in my times of vanity had you printed a Retractation I beleeve you strengthened the hands of many to sin I know you love ancient Writers well by your Margin and quotations And I pray remember how Augustine honoured Truth as much by confessing Errours as professing Truths What fruit should you and I have of these things whereof we are now ashamed For your witnessing to the Antinomian party against your will Is that your fault or mine Nor am I to judge of your reserves and secret senses but of words and writings Nor is it an Antinomian party I alleadge you to countenance but a Party falsly traduced and supposed so a Party called Antinomian by you and others and then writ against A setting up Hereticks to deceive the world and then telling the world such and such are the men You may make more by this trick then you find so To the Second that you will lay open the unsound stuffe I shall not be unwilling I hope to be told my failings but I must look to the stuffe you bring in the roome of mine and entreat others to trye the soundnesse of yours It is not my saying that mine is sound will make it better nor your saying it is unsound can make it worse Let every ones work be proved and then he shall have whereof to boast To your Third of some finding out a shorter cut to Heaven then some former Divines I know not what you meane by shorter cuts The Papists find a way they say to Heaven by works some Protestants by Jesus Christ and works and others by Jesus Christ alone and make works the praise of that Free grace in Jesus Christ And is that a shorter cut then theirs as you call it or rather a clearer revelation of Truth Methinks you expressions have too much of that which Solomon cals frowardnesse in old men Argue and prove and bring Scripture as long as you please but be not too quarrelsome But I shall excuse you in part because you tell us you are not yet recovered from sicknesse so as I take this with other of your Books as part or remainders of your disease rather then your judgement and the infirmity of your body not the strength of your spirit But why chose you not a better time to trie Truth in when you were not so much in the body To the Fourth That nothing lesse was intended by you I undertook not to discover your intents to the world You might have don well to have revealed your selfe more at first that I might not have taken you to be more a friend to Truth
are not so to him who hath chosen them nor to him in whom they are chosen And this is the mystery why Christ is offered to Sinners or Rogues or whatsoever you call them they are as touching the Election beloved for the Fathers sake I speak of such to whom Christ gives power to receive him and beleeve on him and become the Sons of God and Christ findes them out in their sins and visits them who sit in the region and shadow of death and them that are darknesse he makes light in the Lord. To your fourth That God may be provoked to wrath by his Children I pray Can God be as the Son of man Is there any variablenesse or shadow of change in him Can he love and not love Doth he hate persons or sins Is he said to chastise as Fathers otherwise then in expressions after the manner of men because of the infirmities of our flesh must we conceive so of God as of one another Can he be provoked for sins done away and abolished Hath Christ taken away all the sin of his Hath he borne all upon his body or no Speakes he of anger otherwise then by way of Allusion and Allegory as a Father c. And is that He is a Father after the fashion of men Or speaks he not in the Old Testament according to the Revelation of himselfe then and in the New Testament of himselfe now only because our infirmity and his own manner of appearing which is not yet so but we may beare him in such expressions and yet not so in such expressions but we may see more of him and his love and the glory of Salvation in other expressions and not make up such a love as you commonly do of benevolence and complacence Did David and Peter as you say make up their peace with God by Repentance Is there any that makes peace but one Jesus Christ who makes peace through the bloud of his Crosse Can Repentance make peace Or Obedience make peace Is there any sacrifice for sin but that which was once offered even he that appeared in the end of the world to put away sin by the sacrifice of himselfe And was not this called by the Apostle One sacrifice for sins for ever Repentance Obedience c. may make way for the peace made already for sin that is in such workings of the Spirit the love of God in the face of Iesus Christ may shine upon the Soule more freely and fully and the more the Spirit abounds in the fruits of it the more joy and peace flows into the Soule and the more the Soule looks Christ in the face so as peace with God is not made but more revealed by the Spirit in obedience and love c. To your fifth That God loves us for his own graces in us I thought he had loved us too in himselfe and from that love given Christ for us and yet loved us in Christ â—op Can any thing without God be a cause of Gods love Doth God love as we love one another from complexions or features without or loves he not rather thus God is love and therefore we are made and Redeemed and Sanctified not because we are Sanctified therefore he loves us We love him because he first loved us he loved us because he loved us and not because we love him not because of any Spirituall complexion or feature in us because of his Image upon us that is but an earnest of his love to us that is only given us because he loved us he loves us from his will not from without for though we are like him yet we are not himselfe and he loves us as in Christ and himselfe Whereas you say God is as man and as a Father I hope you meane not as in himselfe but as in his wayes of speaking and appearing to us and if so we are agreed But your taking things more in the Letter then the Spirit makes your Divinity lesse Divine and your conceptions more like things of men then of God This makes the Gospell so legall and carnall when we rise little higher then the bare Letter or Scripture not the inspiration by which it came all Scripture being given by inspiration To your sixth That Faith is not a persâ—â—sion more or lesse of Gods love and that all may have that I pray mistake not Can all beleeve from the Spirit Can all be more or lesse spiritually perswaded Do I speake of any perswasion of Christs love which is not Spirituall Deceive not your selfe nor your Reader nor wrong not your Author or do I speak of Faith abstracted from all Repentance Obedience c why deale ye thus When you say men may beleeve too suddenly because I presse men to beleeve and you instance in Simon Magus Was he blamed for beleeving too suddenly or for mis-beleeving because he beleeved the gifts of the Holy Ghost were to be bought with money Can any beleeve too soon if some mis-beleeve or beleeve falsly what is that to them that truly beleeve Shall the unbeliefe of some make the Faith of God without effect God forbid Can Christ be too soon a Saviour to us Can the Fountaine be too soon opened for sin Can the riches of Christ be too soon brought home Paul counts it an honour to be first in Christ Salute Andronicus and Iunia who were in Christ before me and the Church in Prâ—scilla's house and Epenetus who were the first fruits of Achaiâ— unto Christ To your seventh That Christ bids us repent as well as beleeve yea first repent Yea but will you take the Doctrine of the Gospell from a part or summary of it as you say and not from the Gospell in its fulnesse and glory and Revelation Will ye gather Doctrines of Truth as Ruth for a while did gleanings here one eare of Corne and there another and not rather go to the full sheafe to Truth in the Harvest and Vintage Will you pluck up Truth by pieces and parcels in Repentance and Obedience and Selfe-dentall and not reveale these as Christ may be most glorified and the Saints most Sanctified and these gifts most Spiritualized and improved Will ye Preach Doctrines as they lie in the Letter or in their Analogie and inference of Truth The Papists Preach Christs very flesh and bloud to be in the Wine And why but because they looke but halfe way to the demonstration of Truth in the Spirit they shut up Christ in one Notion and not in another and so loses the Truth by revealing it in that Forme of words which is too narrow for it and too short of the height and depth and length of it You say We are to try our Faith So say I too if you would not pick and choose in my Book to make me some other thing then you find me But you mean we must try our Faith for assurance as your other words imply and so far I say too but you
That some of the dissenting Brethren hold Synods Ordinances of God and this Assembly so I know some of our Brethren for the Presbytery hold Infant-Baptism unlawfull and Antichristian and hath better defended it then any yet whom I have read hath answered it And for this Assembly to be an Ordinance of God I thought that had been but an Ordinance of Parliament and stood by that power by which they were called by at first Yet deny not but that consultations for holy ends about the things of God are lawfull by the Word To the Tenth That Presbyteries because not infallibly gifted are of no Divine Right and so concludes against all Presbyteries and Ordinances Yea against all your Presbyteries to be of Divine Right as the first But our question is rather whether the first was any such Presbytery as you now affirme and for ought I see you can no more prove the truth of the Presbytery then in the sense you take it then your Presbytery to be one with it one only in Divine Right not in Divine power or gifts And how are these things sutable To the Eleventh That I contradict the pure Government I plead for by pleading for yours as prudentiall It were true indeed if I pleaded it in mine own behalfe I plead it occasionally for them who will needs have what the State cannot in conscience allow them and yet will not practice any other but what the State shall give them and so trouble both the State and their own consciences and would cast a snare upon both Brethren if ye will needs have the State to allow ye your Presbytery Why are ye not content with what they can allow ye If ye will have a Divine Right which they cannot allow ye why do ye trouble them and sit down under a bondage of your own making But how justly is this yoke come upon you who would have brought a worse upon your Brethren To the Twelfth That the first Presbyters and Apostles c. were not infallible as in divers practices What is this to the truth and gifts they taught and taught by They failed as men but not as Apostles They erred as they were Peter and Paul but not as moved by the Holy Ghost Take heed by opening the Apostles failings to justifie your own you speake not worse Blasphemy then you name in me and make that glorious Word of Scripture questionable which they preached like the words that your selves preach from that Scripture To the Thirteenth That to say the Apostles did advise in place of the written Word is Blasphemy What Blasphemy is it to say that the same Word which they writ and preached the same Spirit spake in them and spake the same truth in them which writ in them And is it so with any of your Presbyters Therefore till the same Spirit speak truth in them so as in the first Presbyters will they challenge the same right the same power Will they have a Divine Right acted by a spirit lesse Divine then the Right To the Fourteenth That the Presbyterians in France Scotland and the Netherlands do not embroyle Kingdoms There is good reason in France they cannot if they would I wish you would walke under the Magistrate as they do and as your dissenting Brethren here and not make him serve you And in the Netherlands do you as they do there and leave your Brethren to the like liberty that is in that State and they will not grudge ye your Presbytery amongst your selves For Scotland they are Brethren I wish no worse to then Truth and Peace and power above their Ministers To that of excommunicating kingdoms being a bugbear You do well to say so till ye be established but you that dare so capitulate with States whom ye are called to advise in things onely propounded what more may be expected upon all your principles I leave to be judged To the Fifteenth That they aske not of the State a power but a liberty to exercise that power Well and will ye trouble the State no further Will ye not intreat them to punish such a one and such a one whom ye judge an Hereticke and a Schismaticke to fine and imprison when you have done with them at Excommunication May the State be quiet if they say to ye go all that are so perswaded as you are and worship and practise as your dissenting brethren and other Saints and trouble not us to provide for your Tythes and Rule for you in things of your own cognizance over Consciences But you would onely have liberty from them your power is of Christ But you cannot so cleare things as you thinke If your power and liberty respectively to your selves and the Magistrate be so distinct why have ye mingled them and confounded them all this while Why make ye the truth and power ye have from Christ wait so at Parliament-doores as Master Case said If the powers on earth will not do for Christ as you would make the people beleeve Why do not ye your selves more for Christ Is it better to obey God or man Thus the more ye would single your selves in your power and right from the Magistrate the more your practice makes an argument against ye To the Sixteenth That I should say 〈◊〉 sound Church Church-officers shall excommunicate and judge of offences and in an unsound the Magistrate and the Inference there I answer I spake and writ so according to your principles not to my owne Nor can I see how you can chalenge such a one entire and simple Discipline exclusively to the Magistrate upon no more true pure and Scripture-principles then your present Presbytery is And I conceive the powers on earth or in the world have to do in every Government that is more of the world then of Christ For if ye exclude them from a part in that Government which is partly prudential and of man you exclude them from off part of their owne Kingdome which is theirs by inheritance and of more Divine Right then I conceive yours to be And whereas you would make us beleeve you stand onely in a pure Gospel strength and power and desire no more of the Magistrate but liberty can this be so in truth when all is esteemed invalid and nothing if the Magistrates power doth not actuate the Ministers power I know you may distinguish of powers Scholastically and Spheres of working for those powers and so tell the Magistrate and us he doth but act in his Sphere when he acts in yours and indeed acts yours making it to be stronger then it is in it selfe But is not his Civil power that which puts life as you think into all your Presbytery Yet he must think he doth but as a Magistrate still as if so be that the Magistrate were made to be rods in the hands of the Church and Swords to be drawn by them and Iron whips at their girdles We are not now as Aarois and Moset we are not
a Kingdom of Israell nor a Church of Israel though too many of you have preached the Old Testament more then the New for what advantage let the Magistrate judge To the Seventeenth That he may in time say as much of justice living upon voyces in Assemblies as of Truth and so to be a Mystery of Iniquity These are but insinuations to the Magistrate and ghosts of Jealousie which you raise And to put an end to such feares when I make Church and State Magistrate and Ministery Gospell-laws and Civill to be both one then challenge me for that opinion But I have learned that Christs Kingdom and the worlds have a severall Policy and that may be a Law in the one which is not to the other And now is it your Inference or my Principle wrongs the Magistrate An Answer in few words to Master Edwards his second Part of the GANGRENA And to the namelesse Author of a Book called An After-reckoning with Master Saltmarsh MAster Edwards the difference betwixt ye both is this You set your name to more then you know as hath been well witnessed and this man dare set his name to nothing You sin without shame and your Partner is ashamed of what he doth Sin is too powerfull in you against Truth because you shew your selfe and Truth is too powerfull for him because he hides himselfe Master Edwards I shall answer you in these few words but first The Lord rebuke thee even the Lord. 1. If the Image of Christ be in any of those you so persecute how can you answer it to Jesus Christ to cast any dirt on the glory of him 2. If God be in any of those you are so much an enemy to how will you answer it to fight against God any thing of God 3. If any of those be the children of the heavenly Father or the little ones of the Gospell It were better that a milstone were hanged about your neck and you cast into the Sea So Christ tels you 4. What is it to sin against the holy Ghost but to hate the Light once known or to blaspheme the works of the Spirit And you once professed to me you had almost been one of those whom you call Hereticks Oh take heed of that sinâ— there is no more Sacrifice for that And how if the works of those you so judge be wrought in the Spirit shall you ever be forgiven in this world or in that to come Read the words and tremble 5. Doth not the Word bid you restore those that are fallen in meeknesse and tell your brother his fault first betwixt you and him And you never yet came to any of them that I could heare of but print proclaime tell stories to the world of all you heare see know Is Christ in this Spirit Is the Gospell in this straine Will this be peace to your soule hereafter 6. Solomon tels us that a man may seem faire in his own tale till his neighbour search out the matter And how dare you then take all things at one hand and not at anothers How dare you have one eare open for complaints and faults and crimes and the other shut against all defence Did ever Justice do this Did you ever call for their accusers face to face Did you ever traverse Testimonies on both sides And dare you judge thus and condemne thus Shall not the Judge of Heaven and Earth make you tremble for this Injustice Shall he not make Inquisition upon your soule for this bloud 7. Is it any other ground or bottome you stand on in this your way of accusing the Brethren but Paul you say named some and the Fathers named some so and Calvin as you told me the other day when I met you And was there ever crime without some Scripture or shadow of the Word Did not Canterbury on the Scaffold preach a Sermon of as much Scripture and Story for what he did as you can for yours if you should ever preach there He thought ye all Hereticks as you do us he thought he might persecute you as you do us and he had a Word from John Baptist for his manner of death and a Word from the Red sea and Israelites for his death and enemies and a Word from Paul for his Changing Laws and Customes and for his crime of Popery he had a Word fâ—â—m them that feared the Romanes would come and take away their Government Thus Satan and Selfe can paint the worst kind of sin Poore soule Is your conscience no better seated then in such aâ—ery apparitious of Scripture and failings of Fathers Do not you heare the Prayers of those soules you wound pleading with God against your sin Are you not in the gall of bitternesse and bond of iniquityâ— Is not your spirit yet flying when none pursues you Are not your dreames of the everlasting burning and of the worme that never dies Have you no gnawings no flashings no lightnings I am afraid of you Your face and complexion shewes a most sadly parched burnt and withered spirit Methought when I called to you the other day in the street and challenged you for your unanswerable Crime against me in the third page of the last Gangrena in setting my name against all the Heresies you reckon which your own soule and the world can witnesse to be none of mine and your own confession to me when I challenged you How were you troubled in spirit and language Your sin was as I thought upon you scourging you checking you as I spoke I told you at parting I hoped we should overcome you by prayer I beleeve we shall pray you either into Repentance or Shame or Judgement â—re we have done with you But Oh might it be Repentance rather till Master Edwards smite upon his thigh and say what have I done For your Anagram upon my name you do but fulfill the Prophesie They shall cast out your name as evill for the Son of mans sake And for your Book of Jeeres and Stories of your Brethren Poore man It will not be long musick in your eares at this rate of sinning For the namelesse Author and his After-reckoning let all such men be doing for me Let them raile revile blaspheme call Hereticks It is enough to me that they write such vanity they dare not own And now let me tell ye both and all such Pensioners to the great accuser of the Brethren Fill up the measure of your iniquity if ye will needs perish whether we will or no. I hope I rest in the bosome of Christ with others of my Brethren raile persecute do your worst I challenge all the powers of hell that set ye on work while Christ is made unto me righteousnesse wisedome sanctification and redemption And I must tell ye further that since any of the light and glory of Christ dawned upon me since first I saw that Morning-Star of righteousnesse any of the brightnesse of the glory in my heart that heart of mine which