Italie or Rome it selfe for his wordes haue euidentlie that relation and that none thinke the auctoritie of one bishop to be lesse then the auctoritie an other but a few wicked and desperate men You were driuē to the wall M. Nowell when you were forced Dorman for a pore shift to say that Leo said as he did because he wolde haue bene lord and heade ouer the church S. Cipriā saith that euerie bishop hath his seuerall portion The same saieth Leo. Leo saieth that the charge of the vniuersall church must Lib. 1. ep 3 haue recourse to Peters chaire S. Ciprian saieth not the cōtrarie Yea so saieth S. Ciprian toe calling Rome matricem the mother church And whither should children I pray you haue recourse for succour but to their mother He saith not that the subiecte of one bishop may not appeale to an other Lyes that is one lie He saieth not that the cause determined by one bishop may be called before no other that is an other lie He maketh no comparison as you say he doth betwene the bishoppes of Afrike Italie and Rome behold the third lye He saieth not that none but a fewe wicked and desperate men thinke the auctoritie of one bishop to be lesse then the auctoritie of an other which if he shoulde youre selfe were like by that meanes to be of the nombre of such desperate and wicked men who before acknowledged chiefe prelates a worde that presupposeth other that be inferiour and fol. 32. 2. be cōtrarie to him selfe as I proued before by his writing to Steuen the pope wherby he required him to take ordre by his lettres for the remouing from his bishoprike Martianus the B. of Arles and by that that him selfe sent to Rome to Cornelius to trie the matter before him with those euill mē that complained vpon him there by his excepting againste the sentence giuen by the pope for the restitution of Basilides for no other cause but because it was obteined by false information All which exāples doe not only proue that he was not of the minde that no one bishop was aboue an other but this also that the B. of Rome was of greater auctoritie then the bishoppes of Fraunce Spaine or Afrike Hetherto of the disagrement betwene S. Ciprian and Leo which by this time all men I trust perceiue to be no suche as you vaunted it was yea to be none at all but suche consent rather as in diuerse wordes there can not be greater It foloweth that we examine how Hierome and Leo agree S Hierome yow saye hath that all churches worshipping one Nowell fo 51. a. 10 Borowed out of Caluin Inst. lib. 4 cap. 7. Sect. 3. Christe and obseruing one rule of truthe are equall with the churche of Rome that all bishoppes be the successours of the Apostles and of one priestehod and of the same merite and dignitie But Leo saieth contrarie that it was giuen to one to be aboue all the rest and that they who be in greater diocesses or cities haue more care and auctoritie and that the onelie see of Peter hath charge of the vniuersall churche and is heade thereof Yow belye S. Hierome He saieth not that all the churches Dorman A lye 38. in the worlde be equall If he did he shoulde saie contrarie to Irinaeus who saieth that the churche of Rome hath potentiorem principalitatem greater souereintie then other churches haue contrary to S. Cipriā who calleth Rome the Li. 1. cap. 3 Lib. 1. ep 3. mother churche the roote and principall churche and contrarie to S. Austen who calleth it the churche in the which the principalitie of the apostolicall see hath allwaies florished Epist 162. He saieth that Christes church is not diuided * Nec altera Romanae vrbis ecclesia altera totius orbis existimanda as thoghe Rome were one and the whole worlde an other As for that that he saieth that all bishoppes be the successours off the apostles those wordes make merueilously for the opinion of Leo against you For vpon that proposition of S. Hierome I reason thus All bishoppes be the successours of the Apostles but the Apostles were not all equal because as S Hierom saith Peter was their head Ergo by S. Hieromes minde all bishoppes who be their successours be not equall but haue the successour of Peter their heade Againe Peter was heade of the Apostles and made because there shoulde arise no schisme emongest them Ergo the B. off Rome who is Peters successour must be heade of his felowe bishoppes for the same cause These two propositions that there was emongest the Apostles one heade and that that was Peter be S. Hieromes owne in his first boke against Iouinian The wordes although I rehersed before yeat because they perteine not onelie to this matter but to shewe also how these thre Ciprian Hierome and Leo mete and knit as it were together in this sentence that Christ appointed ouer his church one generall heade I will recite once againe The wordes therfore of S. Hierō to Iouiniā be these At dicis super Petrum fundatur ecclesia licet idipsum in alio loco super omnes apostolos fiat cuncti claues regni coelorum accipiant ex aequo super eos ecclesiae fortitudo solidetur tamen propterea inter duodecim vnus eligitur vt capite constituto schismatis tollatur occasio That is to saie But thou saiest The churche is builded vpon Peter although the same in an other place be done vpon all the Apostles and all of them receiue the keyes of heauen and equallye is the strength of the churche grounded vpon them yeat for all that is there one chosen emongest the twelue that by making a heade emongest them occasion of schisme maye be taken awaye See yow not nowe by this place of S. Hierome M. Nowell howe the equalitie of power that S. Cyprian speaketh of the similitude of honour and equalitie of calling that Leo remembreth the building of the churche in one place vpon all the Apostles indifferentlie that S. Hierome mentioneth notwithstanding they all three conclude in one maner with this worde tamen notwithstanding that the churche was builded vpon one that there was one heade that there was one preferred before the reste This place of S. Hierome as it vtterly stoppeth their mouthes who reason that the Apostles were absolutely in all pointes equall so confirmeth it moste strongly the answere made before to the place of S. Ciprian that the Apostles were all of equall power and auctority that that was true at the first but Ioan. 20. that after oure Lorde last before his ascension gaue the Ioan. 21. chiefe auctoritie to one in respecte as one was chosen from the rest vpon whome the churche shoulde be builded S. Hierome saieth that al bishoppes are of one priesthode and of the same merite you plaie the falsefier and adde of youre owne and of the same dignitie The gentlewoman
of heresies and schismes when men shoulde departe from the obedience of the pope the chiefe bishop of all other and therefore neither without cause or guilefully to deceiue the simple as yow vncharitably surmise Which youre selfe also perceiued verie well and therefore by the figure called extenuatio you terme this reason of mine a simple collection after this maner Now if he thinke yeat that he might make suche a simple collection Nowell fol. 5. a. 31. of S. Cyprian and S. Basile his wordes as this that as the beginning of heresies in their time was the contempte of the inferiours towardes their owne bishoppes for so Saint Cyprian teacheth so in likewise is the contempte of the Pope as the highest of all bishoppes the beginning of heresies nowe First I denie the argument for that it foloweth not though it be euill for the inferiour to disobey his owne bishop to whose obedience in all godlines he is bounden therefore it is euill for a straungier not to obey a straunge forraine vsurper to whome he oweth no dutie of obedience Againe I saie though it be the beginning of heresie to disobey Cyprian Rogatian yea or Cornelius being godly or catholike bishoppes yeat is it not likewise the beginning of heresies to disobeye any the late Popes of Rome who were not only no godly bishoppes as were Cyprian Rogatian and Cornelius but bothe moste wicked and in deede no bishoppes att all but false vsurpers of wordly tirannie Whome for the subiectes of an other Christian and laufull soueraigne to obeye and not to disobey is the beginning of heresies treasons and other mischiefes This is my simple collection you saie I acknowledge it Dâ—â—man for mine as simple as it is and to youre double answere thereto replye as foloweth First to the first that it is moste false that you laye for a grounded truthe that the bishop of Rome is a forraine vsurper as when I so gathered in my introduction I minded to proue in the handling of the first principall article of the popes auctoritie and so sence haue done Whereof seing youre selfe are not ignorant you haue delt not simply but doubly labouring to deceiue the simple by defacing as you thougth my preface as vnskilfully written for that I haue there only sayde and not proued that the pope is the chiefe heade of Christes churche in earthe whereas that I referred as by good ordre of writing the learned knowe I ought to the first article of the popes supremacie To the reasons and proufes in which place brought as in all youre answere you neuer come neare but cauill and wrangle against my Introduction whiche showeth the cause of schismes to be disobedience against pastours and bishops so if they be applied to this place as they must then shall it appeare how falsely you saye that the wordes of S. Cyprian were alleaged without all cause But because the whole force of this first answere of youres to proue my argument naught standeth in this that the bishop of Rome being a forriner no suche reason can be made from S. Cyprian and S. Basile his wordes I will here ouer and aboue that which I haue allreadie saide in the handling of this article in his propre place presently proue The pope taken for no foriner by S. Cyprian and S. Basile by S. Cyprian and S. Basile bothe that he was taken by them for no foriner neither in Africa Fraunce Spaine neither yeat in the Easte churche of the whiche S. Basile was For Africa first was the B. of Rome thinke yow taken Afrike there by S. Cyprian to be a forraine vsurpar whose churche he called ecclesiae catholicae radicem matricem the roote Lib. 4. epist 8. and mother churche of the catholike churche If the churche of Rome be the roote and mother to all other churches then if the mother be aboue the children if the mother and roote be no foriners to the children and branches of the tree it will folowe verie wel first that the churche of Rome as it is no foriner to the churches of Africa and to the other churches through out the worlde but aboue them all that so the bishop of the same is aboue the B. of Carthage and all other bishoppes and no foriner or vsurper And as carnall children how farre so euer they lyue from their naturall parentes cease not therfore to be their children nor their saide parentes become therby forriners euen so the bishop of Rome who gouerneth that churche that is mother to all other ceasseth not to be a father to his children dwell they neuer so farre of Was the B. of Rome reputed a straunger to the bishoppes of Africa Lib. 4. epist 8. who vsed to sende their legates to him to pacifie matters and to bring knowledge of the truthe Whose communion to holde S. Cyprian calleth in this epistle the firme holding and allowing of the vnitie and charitie of the catholike churche When all the African bishoppes assembled together in councel directed their lettres to the bishop Apud August epi â–ª 90. of Rome praying him to confirme their doings by the auctoritie of the Apostolicall See pro tuenda salute multorum quorundam peruersitate corrigenda for the preseruation of the healthe of manie and the amendement of the frowardenes of diuerse toke they him thinke yow for a forriner If S. Cyprian had had of the See of Rome that opinioÌ„ that you would gladlie persuade men he had woulde he thinke we haue saide of those schismatikes that sailed oute off Africa to Rome to complaine vpon him to Cornelius Post ista adhuc insuper c. Beside all this they haue bene so Lib. 1. Epist 3. bolde hauing appointed to them by the heretikes a false bishop to saile euen to Peters chaire and the principal churche from whence priestly vnitie sprang and to carie from schismatikes and prophane men lettres not considering that the Romaines are they whose faithe by the Apostles mouthe is praised and to whome false faithe can haue no accesse Woulde he haue saide Romam cum mendaciorum suorum merce nauigarunt quasi veritas post eos nauigare non posset quae mendaces linguas rei certae probatione conuinceret They are sailed to Rome with their marchandise of lies as though truthe coulde not saile after them able to conuince their lieng tongues by suer and vndoubted proufe Naye he shoulde and woulde you maie be suer had he bene of youre minde haue saide Let them go on goddes name what care I for the bishop of Rome Shall I be so foolishe to folowe them to debate the matter before him who is a plaine forriner to vs and hathe nothing to doe therein For thus woulde yow I dare saie at this daye answere if one shoulde go to Rome and complayne of you But nowe considering that saint Cyprian saied not thus but contrariewise made his account to stande with them and trie the matter before the bishop of
this is a frowarde heretike might denie S. Paules epistles to the Corinthiās especiallie the Latter in the which the case so requiring he glorieth so farre that him selfe confesseth that he hath played the foole 2. Corinth cap. 11. 1◠compelled thereto by them Ywisse S. Paule was as much subiect to persecution and deathe as anie of the popes that you haue named He had as litle lust or leisour to occupie his heade or pen about the setting furthe of him selfe to boaste of his apostleship to tel of his reuelations as anie of them But necessitie compelling bothe him and them to stande vpon their auctoritie it was expedient that they shoulde earnestlie set furthe the same The epistles that you speake of here to haue bene forged were gathered together aboue nine hundred yeares past by one Isidorus archebisshop of Hispalis in Spaine so that when you come to proue this matter those popes of these latter nine hundred yeares you see how they be discharged Now M. Nowell if you thinke that you haue walcked long inough out of the waye we will returne thither from whence we departed to the. 53. Leafe of youre booke The which because as the reader maye see it conteineth nothing but very matter of bragges not worthy to be answered I steppe ouer Ofschismes and sectes wherewith M. Nowell burdeneth the Catholikes The 17. Chapitre HERE M. Nowell by occasion of a fewe lines but such Nowell fol. 54. a. belike as touched him to the quicke and made him to wynse discourseth in manie leaues in defence of schismes and sectes This note of mine whereby I admonished the reader for better credite to be giuen hereafter to the auncient fathers Cypriā and Hierom who telling vs that the not obeing of one chiefe heade in one seuerall diocesse is the cause of schismes and heresies saye withall allthough not in expresse wordes asmuche by force of greater reason vnlesse there be one suche heade acknowledged and obeied in the vniforme gouernement of the whole churche to haue an eye to the present schismes whiche haue burst in vpon vs in oure countrie in stede of one commō receiued truthe in the daies of oure fathers this note I saie so graueled M. Nowell rubbing him on the verie heade of that festred boile of his poisoned heresie that he coulde finde no grounde to stande vpon but nedes must he fling out and laie about him as a man halfe wood and beside himselfe sparing none not the blessed Apostles them selues He beginneth this pastime after his accustomed maner with this Lewde lye It is well knowen that there is as muche consent in true doctrine Nowell A facing lye 44. in the churche of Englande at this time as euer was in anie realme at anie time What a face thinke you hath this man or hath he anie Dorman face or forheade at all I will not trouble him with forein realmes shewing him what consent in true doctrine there is presently in manie Catholike countries nor I will not appeale to all the former ages that haue passed I will only put him in remembraunce of the consent in true doctrine in oure owne countrie fifty yeares ago Can you saye M. Nowel for with you I loue gladliest to talcke that there was then anie dissention in doctrine at all Can yow recken vs vp anie diuersitie of opinions touching beliefe in all the realme of England at that time Will you saie they had no true doctrine at all and therfore no consent in true doctrine If you saie so then name vs a time when there was euer true doctrine in Englande that suche a time being knowen it maie be proued vnto you that there were no suche sectes and schismes then as rage emongest you nowe Note vnto vs the yeare and religion vsed at any tyme since oure realme was firste christened when yow write nexte that we maye aske you whether at that tyme Caūtorbury Rochester Glocestre were of one opiniō cōcerning the presence of Christes most blessed body bloude in the sacramēt and Londō Winchester and Dirham of a cleane contrary as they are nowe that occupye these roomes Who hathe not hearde of a sermon latelye preached before the Queenes maiestye in the defence of the reall presence and the preacher called of his brethern for his labour an asse in a Rochet the Sermon it selfe by a mightye Samson shortly after as it semed confuted Is this a consent in true doctrine M. Nowell Haue you not hearde off these Sermones Or if you hearde them did you nodde there while and beare so litle awaye that you haue cleane forgotten the whole matter telling vs nowe scarse oute of youre sleepe that you haue as muche consent in true doctrine as euer was in anye realme at anye tyme How many of youre brethern be of Verons minde touching predestination Let M. Moulins the vsurper of the Archedeaconry of London youre neighbour tell you M. Nowell why he did excommunicate M. Thomas Walbot a ministre in London Let the saide Walbot instructe you who they are that in his learned supplication to M. Doctour Parker he calleth Florinitians Tell vs M. Nowell whereof it procedeth that three of the moste graue modeste and learned emongest yow men to saye the truthe in all respectes heresye set a parte worthy to beare the office off M. D. Parker M. Cheyny M. Gest true bishoppes in Christes churche are of their subiectes so contemptuouslye set at naught whereof I saye it procedeth that one is called Matthewe meale mouthe a Lince wolsy bishoppe c. that the other hathe Moyer the ministre of Wootton vnder headge borne out against him the thirde termed an Asse but of this that there be schismes and sectes emongest you Are you ignoraunt M. Nowell what cōmunion M. Whittingham celebrated at Duresme not onely against the mynde of his bishoppe but the ordre appointed also by the communion booke Neuer hearde you what a singuler and straunge maner off baptisme he deuised and ministred at Duresme Is al this in your eye consent in true doctrine when you agree not emongest youre selues neither in the substance of the chiefest Sacramentes neither in the maner of their ministration Are we ignoraunt thinke you of the Anabaptistes Arrians Eluidians and whole swarmes of these and other heretikes that lye smoothering in corners looking for the ioyfull tyme of their deliueraunce in to the world and broade light as you and youre felowes did 30. yeares ago Are we ignoraunt thereoff because when some of them sturring before their tyme are brought before youre bishoppes they are with good wordes of greate policie dismissed with exhortation to them to lyue lyke quiet subiectes c. Lest suche hastie and vntimely teeming might be not onely the vtter ruine and ouerthrowe of all those heresyes that hauing nowe continued almost twentie yeares begin to growe to mannes state but of so muche faire issue allso as that cursed moother is lyke to bring furthe hereafter Iudge you vs to
A DISPROVFE OF M. NOVVELLES REPROVFE By Thomas Dorman Bachiler of Diuinitie Dignare ergo rescribere nobis vt sciamus quomodo fieri possit vt ecclesiam suam Christus de toto orbe perdiderit in vobis solit habere coeperit August ad Honorat epist 161. Vouchesaufe to write againe to vs that we maye knowe howe it can be that Christe shoulde leese his churche ouer all the worlde and beginne to haue it emongest yow onlye SPES ALIT AGRICOLAS Imprinted at Antwerp by Iohn Laet Anno Domini 1565. 3 Decembris with speciall priuileage REGIAE Maiestatis priuilegio permissum est Thomae Dormanno S. Theologiae baccalaureo vt per aliquem typographorum admissorum impunè ei liceat imprimi curare per omnes Burgundicae ditionis regiones distrahere librum inscriptum A disproufe of M. Nowelles Reproufe omnibus alijs inhibitum ne eundem absque eiusdem Thomae consensu imprimant vel alibi impressum distrahant Dat. Bruxellae 17. Octob. Anno. 1565. Subsig Pratt THE PREFACE TO THE READERS CONTEINING THE ANSWERE TO M. NOWELLES PREFACE IF as in warre where worldly titles vse by dynt of sworde to be determined / so in skirmisshes of learning / where truthe in doubtefull matters / is only attempted to be tryed out where gods glorye not mannes preferment is chiefelye sought where the limites and boundes of Christes eternall kingdome the churche / not of worldly dominions which shall perishe and haue their ende / are defended it were laufull good Readers to vse false vndermining / and Stratagemes to deceiue / to raise smokes to blinde the eyes of the simple readers / as doth the politike capitaine when to conceale the better â–ª the weakenes of his power / which being knowen to the enimie might breede boldenesse / and encrease courage / he maketh fiers of greene fearne or wette strawe / that vnder the darcke smoke thereof he maye the saufflier lye vnespied finally if in controuersies about religion / it were laufull to saye with Lisander the Lacedemonian / that where the lions Plutarch in Lacâ— skyn will not serue it maie and muste be eached withe the case of the foxe then in this respecte / the auctor perhappes of the Reproufe / might for this smoky preface of his haue deserued at youre handes / the name at the least and title of a wary and circumspect capitaine / and be thought herafter worthy / to haue the leading of a greater army then hetherto he hathe had But if on the contrary parte / as the nature of the thinges about the which in these two kinde of warres the strife is / is contrary so the maner of triall and conquest be also diuerse if truthe be strong inough of herselfe and nede not the helpe of by practises to be supported by if her bright beames disdayne to be obscured withe clowdy mystes then hathe this auctor not furthered but hindâ—eâ— his â—ause / then hathe he discouered his weakenes / not shewed his proweâ—se / then maie he be termed a cowardly souldiour / not a valiant capiteine Nowe here must I desire yow as many as will aduenture to giue iudgement of the euent of this conflicte betwene vs / to open the eyes of youre vnderstanding / and to considre the vaine smokes whereby in this preface of his he laboureth to blinde yow / and to disgrace bothe me and all suche as haue written of late in Englishe The waye yow knowe well that be of the learned sorte to bring this to passe / ought to be by comparing matter with matter / cause with cause / and reason with reason But the aduersarye forseing when it shall come to the close / and to the pointe that the matter must so be tried / how weake and feeble he is like to be founde / thought it a pointe of wisdome / first before all thinges to get by steaâ—â—h / the possession as it were of your mindes / and there leauing preiudice his lieuetenaunt / him selfe to be afterwardes occupied about the residue of his affaires For this cause he raised these foule and thicke smokes / that suche as haue written of late in englishe be but seely translatours or borowers of those bokes whose first authors they would In the firste side of his praeface seeme to be that therfore mistrusting that suche kinde of writing or rather translating should not appeare worthy to be accompted the earnest doing of any learned or wise man they haue done wittely either to pretend that to be written but lightely for a priuate frende or twayne and not ment to be printed c. or elles to appoint suche to beare the name as authors of their bookes as maie seme moste meete therefore being accompted of all that knowe them for learning and discretioÌ„ the simplest men emongest them that these bookes haue bene elaborated at conuenient oportunitie by common conference Beholde here I praie yow / the fonde coniectures that haue smoked out of M. Nowelles idle braine / wherewith he thinketh so to dymme the eyes of all men / that he maie vnder these clowdes steale when he To the 1. will in to their bosoms If no newe boke maie be made as here he semeth to mainteine because all that can be spoken is saide allready if for this cause / who so euer will wright nowe / shall be but a seely translatour Nihil est dictuÌ„ quod non est dictum priùs and borower of other maie we not iustly saie to him and all suche who be yow that obiecte to vs the translating out of other mennes latyne worckes in to oure Englishe bokes Are yowe not of the conspiracy of them / that robbed all the heretikes that euer wrote before yow / to patche vp youre clouted Apologie Is there any one sentence there that hathe not bene filched from some one heretike or other You re greate Bassa if his doinges be thus examined / is he not like to be nombred emongest M. Iuell the seely translatours If he shoulde be cruelly called vpon to restore to youre Apologie / to Musculus his common places / to his maister Peter martir his note bokes / the debte that he hathe borowed of them / might he not think yow become banckerout shortly Your selfe also / and that other that skirmisheth with the crosse of Christe / shoulde yowe be in any better case / the one of yow borowing from Caluin his in stitutions / Brentius / and suche like / the other takinge out of the historie of Magdeburg / and the Englishe homilie against images / such matter as he founde there ready framed to his handes But what speake I herof / seing that by this meanes / neither is there any newe booke nowe adayes made / neither of longe time hathe bene / or hereafter can be made For neither made Cicero the bokes De Oratore neither Plato De Legibus neyther Hipocrates his Aphorismes / neyther Aristotle his Physica because all these
13. 1562. aut tonsorem aut circulatorem circumforaneum aut aliqueÌ„ huiusmodi ministerio adhibituÌ„ qui bonas liter as ne à limi ne quideÌ„ vnquaÌ„ salutarit At this daye in manie places a man shal finde either a shoemaker or a cowhearde or a barbar or a iuggler or a mountebancke ronneagate or some suche other made ministre who neuer strided so muche as ouer the tresshold into the schole where good learning is taught Where you saye that we haue burned so many of youre learned clerckes that you are driuen to supply small cures with fol. 17. a. some honest artificiers surelie loke ouer youre calendre againe and you shal finde that the greatest nombre of them was of suche craftesmen as we speake of and that the learned that passed that waies were verye fewe to haue furnished those cures that youre honest craftes men be as it is were into their shoppes crept into Howe the saing of S. Cyprian that heresies and schismes rise of the contempt of the bishop which is one is applied to the B. of Rome The 6. chapitre I saied that it had bene declared by S. Cyprian before Epistol 9. Lib. 4. that the diuell in his attemptes against the churche vsed alwaies to beginne with the banishement of the bishop whiche is one c. By this one bishop in this place you saie I make Saint Cyprian vnderstande the B. of Rome I doe so M. fo 17. b. 18 Nowel but not directly or immediatly You are deceiued much and vnderstaÌ„d not my meaning if you so thinke For as I confesse that bothe in the one place and in the other of S. Cyprian he maie vnderstande the bishoppes and gouernours of euery particuler churche so am I not also ignorant that youre conclusion Ergo there is not one worde ment off the bishop off Rome is moste false For when S. Cyprian saied in these places that schismes whiche arise by the diuels worcking where so euer they springe vp come by the banishing of their auctoritie who be appointed to gouerne the churche let it be I graunt so muche of euery bishop in his owne diocesse might not I who presupposed in this introduction of mine which in the processe also I proued that the B. of Rome was the chiefe heade of all other conclude that then by a greater reason S. Cyprians minde was that schismes and heresies shoulde come by the forsaking of the B. of Rome allthough by name he spake not of him As if for example it were written in the lawes of oure realme Treasons and rebellyoÌ„ ryse by the coÌ„temning of the lieuetenaunt which is one in the Shiere shoulde he now saye amisse that to exhorte men to abide in the obedience of their prince woulde reason from the auctoritie of the lawe that by contempt of the kinge rebellion the trouble-feast of all good ordre taketh beginning I thinke no man will so saye And yeat speaketh not the lawe by name off the king Allthough no man can denie but that if the lawe woulde so saie of an inferiour membre it woulde not let to saie as muche of the chiefe membre of all Yow will graunte youre selfe that although S. Cyprian named not the B. of Rome yeat in that sence as he is bishopp of the diocesse of Rome he ment of him Which seing you doe why maie not I who take him to haue aswell iurisdiction ouer the whole churche as ouer that of Rome applye to him by the waye of introduction this place as well as you doe to euery particuler bishop notwithstanding they be not by name mentioned which is youre reason here made to the contrary And thus muche for the applieng of this place to the B. of Rome And as for the quietnes peace securitie B. 25. plenty of thinges c. that yow saye you haue nowe more then of late vnder the pope if you meane of youre selfe and youre companions comparing youre present state with that of late of Geneua surely I thinke yow saye truthe Although I ment generallie and of the better parte of the realme For allthough you wallow in wealth and youre selues be so prouided for either to abide or to flye with youre banckes as it is supposed all readye made in the marchantes handes although the wooddes wasted the leade plucked from the greate palaces haules and kitchins to greate for youre little hospitalitie and small roste the beneuolences exacted of the pore priestes haue filled youre coffers finally although youre brattes be prouided of the best fermes and manours belonging to the churches to the whiche by the olde canons I speake of the children of Conâ—iâ— Tolâ—â—an 9. Can. 10. priestes for you I vnderstand are but a single solled ministre they ought to be bond sclaues yeat are other men pinched and complaine of the lacke of that quietnes that peace that securitie and plenty of thinges that 30. yeares ago they had For you abuse men to much to compare the time present with the late time of Quene Marye in the which neither was the popes auctoritie fully restored with all men neither would Dauus suffer vs to enioy this quietnes peace c that you speake of who by violent armes by seditiouse bokes by sclaunderouse tongues by infamouse and lieng libelles finally by all meanes sought to hindre the same and to stirre vp the subiect against the prince And yeat in good sooth the comparison being so made the oddes is not so cleare as yowe take it to be But how euer it be M. Nowell I spake here of no suche worldly respectes as yow woulde seme to make me I spake and ment of ouerthrowing of churches and altars of the contempt of learned men of the teaching of euil doctrine of the promoting to ecclesiasticall ministeries weuers tynckers coblers bromemen c. I ment of peace and quietnesse in conscience of simplicitie and vpright dealing betwene man and man with suche like thinges Which if youre selfe doe not perceiue since oure first reuolt from the pope to be muche empaired then are yow a piece of deade fleshe and desperatly braine sicke For so saieth Hippocrates of them who being sicke feale not the griefe of their disease Youre promise to proue that where the pope hath had the greatest auctoritie there he hath brought in with him all miseries mischiefes c. shall in the place where you perfourme it be answered Howe Maximus Vrbanus and Sidonius went from the churche by not acknowledging the auctoritie of the B. of Rome and how they returned to the same againe by acknowledging it The. 7. Chapter M. Nowell after that he hath declared that the state of the controuersie betwene Nouatus whome Maximus Vrbanus and Sidonius folowed and Cornelius the pope was which of them two was a catholike bishop holding the truthe and truly and laufully chosen by God and which was the intruder and not of the catholike churche but an heretike concludeth thus Wherefore it is euident that when M.
Dorman saieth thaâ— Nowell Fo. 19. a. 32 those men returned againe to the churche by this waye that is to saye by the acknowledging Cornelius to be the heade of the vniuersall churche he saieth moste vntruly Yf you considre well my wordes M. Nowell that went Dorman last before and vpon which these depende you shall finde that I doe here as sence the beginning I haue done kepe my selfe close to the argument of my preface or introduction Which is to shewe that the going from the heade is the cause of all schisme and the returning to the same the cause of vnitie and concorde This as it is euidently true whether the heade be particuler or generall so the more that suche heade is generall and vniuersall the more true is it The schisme hath bene proued by the departing of Nouatus the heretike from Cornelius his laufull head the B. of Rome The vnitie is here declared by the returne of Maximus Vrbanus and Sydonius from the Lib. 2. epist 12. faction of Nouatus to pope Cornelius What nede yow then here to laye to my charge that I saye vntruly that these men returned to the churche by acknowledging Cornelius to be the heade of the vniuersall churche which as I saye not in this place so was it not nedefull that I shoulde My wordes haue relation to those other where I saye that we first reuolt froÌ„ the church by contemning and not acknowledging the heade without any expresse mention of the heade of the vniuersall churche and that so muste our returne thither againe be by the coÌ„trary c. And that so did those that after their falle with Nouatus S. Cyprian receiued into the church againe What So did they construe englishe M. Nowell I praye yow did they not so returne to their heade as they had forsaken him Doe not yowe confesse as muche youre selfe in this verye place well then this place proueth well that vnitie acknowledged is the ende of diuision which is the onely marke that I shoote at in this preface That this vnitie is especially to be considered in the pope that was not to be showed here but woulde folowe I knew of it selfe vpoÌ„ this fundatioÌ„ laied here after there where the popes auctoritie shoulde of purpose be handled It coÌ„meth in by the waye as it were that the example is founde betwene the B. of Rome and Nouatus going from his vnitie and Maximus returning to it Any other example would haue serued my turne in this behalfe but the case standing so that I had to treate of the B. of Rome those examples liked me best which being directly of him might better declare the vnitie and more liuely set furthe the schisme by how muche the one or the other was greater as falling from or ioyning with him who was not a common bishop but the head or chiefe of all other Although I might well defende that this exaÌ„ple is suche as is that which foloweth of Vrsatius and Valens as maye serue bothe for my preface to commend vnitie and for the matter it selfe to proue the popes auctoritie by acknowleding thereof For you see here that they confessed that there must be one bishop in the catholike churche Which wordes not withstanding that you labour to drawe to an other sense and I denie not but that they haue some ambiguitie Yeat if we considre of whome they were spoken that is of Cornelius the B. of Rome and successour of Peter called by Arnobius an auncient writer Episcopus episcoporuÌ„ the bishop of bishopps it wil not be absurde to thinke that by that one bishop they meÌ„t the B. In psal 138. of Rome successour of Peter and so the bishop of bishoppes Here because no small vauÌ„tage as you iudge lieth in the traÌ„slating of these words in ecclesia catholica you thinke that Nowell Fol. 20. a. 20. I shoulde haue said in a catholike church In dede if I were of youre minde that the chaire of S. Dorman Peter were but one emongest manie like or equall and his churche as one of the rest the translation might well haue bene vsed that you speake of But whereas I am resolued and proue it in place that there is difference betwene S. Peters Lib. 2. de baptis coÌ„tra Donat Cap. 1. chaire as hath S. Austen and the chaires of other bisshoppes that the churche of Rome is not onely a catholike churche being taken for a peculier place but in a true sense also the catholike churche when it is taken for the mother churche of all Christes flocke because it is all one to saye the churche of Christ in earthe and the churche of Rome as by S. Ambrose it is to be proued who when S. Paule had saide the churche of God to be the piller of truthe S. Ambrose wel knowing that he spake not of any one church but 1. Timoth. 3 of the whole doubted not yeat to say cuiÃs hodie rector est Damasus whose ruler at this daye Damasus is who was thaÌ„ pope you maye not marueile if I traÌ„slate not the wordes as you doe The same S. Ambrose in the funerall oration of his brother Satyrus telleth that minding to receiue theblessed sacrameÌ„t wherby he had a litle before bene saued froÌ„ drowning in the sea he asked the bishop at whose handes he thought to take it whether he agreed with other catholike bishoppes that is saieth S. Ambrose with the churche of Rome What was this elles but to aske him whether he agreed with that churche which because it conteined all catholike bishoppes in her lappe and none he toke for a catholike but him that agreed with that churche he iudged to be the catholike church Yow see therfore M. Nowel that it is no suche absurditie as yow thinke to translate these wordes in catholica ecolesia in the catholike church For what priuileage haue you I praye you more then I that yow maie translate the worde catholicae ecclesiae of the catholike churche and that I must englishe the same wordes of a catholike so 19. b. 8 churche Or why shoulde it be laufull for you so to translate them twise when alleaging those wordes of S. Cyprian Episcopo Cornelio in catholica ecclesia Yow englishe them the second time the B. C ornelius in the catholike churche which fo 20. a. 8 Cipr. li. 3. epist 13. you will not suffer me to doe so much as once Ah M. Nowel is this euen dealing Or thinke you when you haue done to colour the matter by a feined rule of youre owne making which saieth that Episcopus catholicae ecclesiae and Episcopus in ecclesia catholica are as much to say as a catholike bishop I graunte that in some places they are so M. Nowell Will you therefore make a generall rule that they must alwaies be so taken and in no place otherwise Muche like to this is the argument that you make Li. 3. Epist 11. f. 20. a. 13 to
For so the I should haue concluded with S. Cyprian yow saye ergo b. 11. in likewise euerye diocesse and euery churche ought to haue their seuerall heade prelate or bishop I toke not my reason oute off S. Cyprian and therefore I folowe not his conclusiō What so euer it be my reason is that the whole churche dispersed through the whole worlde is as truly one kingdome of heauen one societie one body as any other company throughe oute the worlde is one be it greate or litle Therefore if I had concluded as S. Cyprian dothe vpon your graunting the same to be true as here you saye you woulde haue done that euerye diocesse and particuler churche nedeth a heade it woulde well haue folowed spite of youre bearde ergo in the whole churche being also one is more nede of one heade These cōclusions of S. Cipriās and mine be not cōtrary but stande wel together Euē as if one should inferre in our countrie vpon suche a proposition as is this of S. Cyprians ergo euery citie euery shiere hath nede of a heade to gouerne it and then vpon that againe ergo the whole realme it selfe conteining all these cities and shieres hathe muche more nede of one heade to gouerne that And yeat yow so shamelesse you are saye that S. Cyprian hath the cleane b. 21. contrarie to this conclusion saing thus Singulis pastoribus c. that is To euery pastour is a portion of our lordes flocke appointed the whiche euery one ought to rule and gouerne who shall giue accompt of his doing to oure Lorde This place you saye Lib. 1. epistol 3. maketh plainely againste the supremacy off one These wordes conuince you plainely of a lye This place if you knowe A lye 22. not how to vnderstand it be not ashamed to learne of S. S. Cypriā expoūded by S. Bernard Bernarde of whome you disdaine not to learne matter to reproue the maners of the bishoppes of Rome when yow thinke he maye serue you to that effect He telleth vs speaking to pope Eugenius Habent illi sibi assignatos greges singuli Lib. 2. ad Eugen. singulos tibi vniuersi crediti vni vnus that is to saie They haue also he meaneth the other bishoppes of the churche euery one their seuerall flockes assigned vnto them to the being one all are committed in one Lo M. Nowell S. Bernard telleth you whome youre selfe bothe alleage for youre purpose and to whome you giue the title of a blessed sainct that this reason of youres is not good Euerye pastour hath a portion off Christes flocke allotted out to him to gouerne Ergo there is no one heade ouer all For by this meanes if suche collections might be allowed aswell might euery parson and vicair because he hath also a portion of the flocke committed to his charge by him selfe be discharged from the obedience of his bishop as maye the bishoppes from the gouernement of one chiefe heade The maior bailif or other officier of anie the Quenes good townes in England hath a portion of the realme committed to his charge to gouerne will youre wisedome serue you M. Nowell to conclude vpon this that therefore there is no one in oure saide countrie who hathe the supremacie ouer all This is S. Cyprian his reason this is you saie his conclusion You beelye S. Cyprian M. Nowel he neither reasoneth nor fol. 30. b. 30. concludeth against the supremacy of one as I trust I haue made euident You might rather thinke that he who was for euery portion so hofull woulde be no lesse carefull to prouide for the whole where was more daunger and cause of feare For that you reason after youre maner negatiuely that neither S. Cyprian nor any other learned man doth vse these examples or similitudes any where to proue that there ought to be one heade or gouernour ouer the vniuersall churche that reason showeth it selfe from whence it commeth Will you now as you haue taught vs a newe kinde of diuinitie so teache vs also a newe waye of reasoning Yea will you teache the learned Lawiers and graue iudges off the realme neuer to decide case but suche as they shall finde recorded in their yeare bokes in the same termes Shall it not be laufull for them by youre depe diuinitie whereas it is impossible so to conceiue lawes that all cases maye be expressely comprehendid when suche a case shall happen to procede therein by the iudgement giuen in other cases where although the case be diuerse the reason is one Iff youre discretion will serue you to alowe this kinde of reasoning in the lawe whiche is nothing elles but altogether reason why take you then suche holde of this that S. Cyprian did not in termes that is to saye in the selfe same case of one heade ouer the vniuersall churche applye these examples seing that as I proued before S. Cyprians reason is one in bothe the cases yea greater and of more force in the fol. 30. b. 31. case of one heade ouer the whole church then of one ouer euery particuler churche Because M. Nowell thinketh as the truthe is that this conclusion that there ought to be one generall heade ouer all churches liketh me well and yeat that I haue handled it but ill it pleaseth him here of an extraordinarye liberalitie for the pitie that he taketh vpon me to playe once againe the scholemaister in his olde dayes and now because I am past my Grammer to teache me logike I shoulde haue reasoned thus my maister saieth There is one generall king ouer al the Nowell fo 31. a. 2. worlde one generall heade ouer all people c. Therefore there must be one generall heade ouer all the churche My maister plaieth here with me as S. Thomas More Dorman writeth that a poet of Cambridge did once with his boye whome plaing with him being a yong Sophister on a time for his pleasure he offred to proue an asse which when the boye denied well quoth the poet thow wilt graunte me this first that euery thing that hath two eares is an asse Nay mary maister will I not quoth the boye No wilt thow quoth the poete Ah wyly boye there thow wentest beyond me For and thow wouldest haue graunted me that I woulde haue proued the an asse anon Mary maister quoth the boye ye might well and so might euery foole toe Well quoth the poet I will goe now an other waye to worcke with the. Thow wilt graunt me that euerie asse hath two eares Naye marie will I not maister quoth the boye Why so boye quoth he Mary maister quoth he some asse maie happē to haue neuer a one for they maie be cut of bothe Naye then quoth the poet I giue the ouer thow arte to frowarde a boye for me Woulde not yow now M. Nowell make me here to reason as pleaseth you as the poet woulde haue made his boye to answere But how little nede I haue of youre
the lacke of his visible presence by appointing as in well one in his steede to the behooffe of the whole churche as of particuler churches For this one heade lest any man might cauill that he might erre and drawe all after Lucae 22. him Christ him selfe prayed saieng in the gospell to Peter whome he left in his place to be that heade I haue praied for the that thy faithe maye not faile We may not doubte therfore but that he obteined his petition We haue no cause to doubte considering that hetherto all other apostolicall seates and moste famouse churches of the worlde as Antioche Alexandria Hierusalem Constantinople hauing perniciously erred in the faithe and being quite ouerthrowen this onley seate of the chiefe heade of Christes churche the churche of Rome I meane against so manie wicked Emperours openly assaulting it so many De vtilit credendi ad Hoaorat Cap. 17. subtile heretikes craftily vndermining it and barcking rounde about it as S. Austen saieth so manie meanes inuented to bring it to defende euill and perniciouse doctrine hathe in all these difficulties continued allwaies and by goddes grace euer shall continue pure and vnspotted Beside this to stoppe all youre starting holes at once nowe for hereafter yow can not saye that by this reason of mine whereby I go about vpon the necessitie of one heade in euerie diocesse to proue the like ouer the whole churche it shoulde folowe aswell that there ought to be ouer all the kingdomes of the worlde one chiefe king or emperour because as I saide once before all the kingdomes in the worlde meete not together by goddes ordinaunce in one kingdome as all the churches doe in one churche Which if they did off necessitie they shoulde being one bodye haue one heade And therfore in this case I Lib. de vnitate eccles Cap. 12 maie saye with S. Austen Nèque enim quia in orbem terarrum plerunque regna diuiduntur ideo Christiana vnitas diuiditur Neither because kingdomes for the moste parte be diuided through the worlde therefore is Christian vnitie diuided also And yeat this is the thing that M. Nowell laboureth to bring to passe that because there be many kingdomes and consequently many kinges there shoulde be many churches and so many rulers of the churche or goddes apointment of gouerning the worlde by many kinges made frustrate and so no mo kingdomes then there be churches Thus I haue showed yow M. Nowell howe this place of S. Cyprian maketh for my purpose referring those wordes Neque vnus in ecclesia ad tempus sacerdos ad tempus iudex c. Neither that there is one prieste and one iudge acknowledged in the churche in the steede of Christe for the time to the proufe of the necessitie of one heade ouer the whole churche by an ineuitable consequent taken from S. Cyprians wordes not as directly ment of the pope as you laboure to make men beleue spending manie wordes here in vaine to proue that these wordes shoulde be spoken of S. Cyprian him selfe To all the which long processe of youres I will then make answere when I shall vse the place to suche purpose as you imagine I doe Although this I will aduertise you of by the way that the case is not altogether so clere as you take it to be that this place of S. Cyprian is only to be taken as spoken of him selfe and not of Cornelius as to him that shall considre that no particuler bishop is able to staye schismes so conueniently whereas the bishoppes of diuerse prouinces be of equall auctoritie as that one bishop that hathe auctoritie ouer the whole nombre of bishoppes it can not but be manifest And yeat maie euerie man see in this place that the one bishopp of whome S. Cyprian speaketh should be suche as being obeied there shoulde be no schismes in Christes church Which can be vnderstande of no one particuler bishop but of some such one as because his auctoritie is vniuersal it will folowe that the obeing of him shall procure to the whole churche to the colleage of priestes quietnes and vnitie Againe when S. Cyprian handling of purpose this argument of the vnitie off the church telleth vs how the the diuel haleth men to heresies and schismes because they go not to the beginning of the truthe seeke not out the heade obserue not the heauenly maisters teaching and addeth immediatly that our lorde saide to Peter Thow arte Peter c. as though he woulde teache * Not as M. Iuell iuglgeth with this place in 3. his printed sermoÌ„ vs therby Matth. 18. to come to the beginning of the truthe to finde out the heade to kepe the teaching of Christ that he disposed by his auctoritie that vnitie shoulde begin of one Last of all that he holdeth not the faithe that holdeth not the vnitie of this churche that began of Petre ought not these wordes vttred to teache vs to auoide schismes be a rule to directe vs to S. Cyprians meaning in this place where he saieth that heresies and schismes rise because one iudge in the church in the stede of Christe is not obeied But leauing the defence of this interpretation to those that haue so alleaged and vnderstode the place who are able it is not to be doubted to giue good reason of their doinges I will procede to that which foloweth Concerning the Apologie wherewith I founde faulte for saing that Christe in the gouernement of his churche â—ol 38. b. 7 vseth not the ministerye off anye one generall heade c which you labour here to defende I saie that it hathe not onely committed this faulte in denieng this maner off gouernement in Christes churche the contrarie whereof S. Cyprians wordes by a necessary consequent importe but is blasphemouse also against Christe whose ordonaunce it is to haue one heade to gouerne in his steade the churche by affirming so peremptorily that it is not possible for anye man alone to be hable to susteine that office To the which two if I shoulde adde this beside that it was moste foolishely vttred first of the Apologie and nowe moste impudently defended by yow it might perhappes moue Not impossible for one man alone to gouerne the churche vnder Christe youre cholere a litle but yeat M. Nowell it is true For what man that had but a cromme of witt in his heade woulde call that a thing impossible to be done which him selfe for the space of 900. yeares can not denie to haue bene done Denye if you can that thus manie yeares the whole worlde hathe not in spirituall matters obeyed one heade the B. of Rome I presse you not nowe with the first six hundred yeares before in the which the ecclesiasticall histories and writinges of the fathers make moste euident mention that this auctoritie of one generall heade was thorough out the whole worlde acknowledged of all men To this one heade appellations were made from all partes of
the worlde This one heade executed the censures of the churche vpon See M. Doctor Hardinges booke the seconde edition fol. 111. b. malefactours and transgressours of the ecclesiasticall canons confirmed the ordinations and elections off bishoppes approued or disalowed councelles restored bishoppes wrongfully condemned and depriued receiued into the church such as had erred and gone a straie and all this thorough out the whole worlde But with all this I saye I will not presse you because youre Apologie and you be it neuer so easy to be proued will yeat for your honour sake perhappes denie it Only this I aske of yow how yow be not ashamed to saie that it is impossible for one man to gouerne the whole churche seing by youre owne confession for 900. yeares it hathe bene so If yow will saie that the churche hathe bene euill gouerned these latter 900. yeares allthough that yow coulde right well proue as you shal neuer be hable what maketh that for this assertion off youres that one man can not possybly gouerne the whole churche conteining to vse yowre owne wordes so manie nations so diuerse Languages and natures of men Howe proueth it that one generall heade can not so ouersee his charge that he shall be able to kepe all churches from schismes and troubles and pacifie them when they are risen If one man alone coulde for the space of 900. yeares so rule all churches dispersed thorough out all the worlde that he Note was able to plant emongest so manie nations so diuerse languages and natures of men one naughty and corrupte faithe as yow saie might not the same or maye not an other with as muche facilitie haue planted or plant if it were to be planted a truthe thorough out the whole worlde If the churche haue bene so gouerned during this terme of 900. yeares that all the affaires of the churche haue by one heade bene so ordered that no membre hath had iust cause to complaine that all membres haue agreed in perfecte quietnesse one with an other and all with their heade as youre selfe hereafter confesse allthough yow labour to qualifye the matter in this wise In deede we must nedes confesse a truthe M. Nowels confession cōcerning the quiet agrement vnder the gouernement off the Pope fol. 56. b. 25. that whilest we all remained vnder the quiet obedience off youre Romishe heade in doctrine of his traditiōs there was a coloured hinde of quietnesse concorde and loue emongest all the membres of that heade the subiectes of that one gouernour and ruler and specially emongest the cleargie of that one churche if I saye by youre confession there was suche a quiete agreing thorough out all the worlde in false doctrine will you still abide by it that the same one heade that gouerned in this peasable maner all the worlde whome he fedde with euill doctrine might not haue gouerned them as quietly if he had deliuerd to them sounde and wholesome doctrine Or will you saye that God can doe lesse in procuring good thinges then the diuell in promoting euill that God can make one man hable alone to gouerne all the worlde without schismes or to appease them being moued as great as it is in euill gouernement but not in good If you will not saye thus you must nedes saie that it is nothing impossible for one man assisted by goddes grace to gouerne the churche of the whole worlde were it greater then it is and so to confesse with all that the Apologie in saing the contrary and yow in defending the Apologie haue bothe off yow falsely blasphemously and foolishely erred As for the reason whereunto the Apologie and yow leane that as God hathe giuen to no one king to be aboue all so to no one bishop to rule the whole churche that is as I tolde you before to appoint God because he hathe made manie kingdomes to make many heades of the churche which is but one and so consequently to multiply religions and make many faithes But because you repeate verie often this comparison and thinke it so absurde that there shoulde be any more one heade ouer the whole churche thē one chiefe king aboue all the kingdomes in the worlde I will here proue that within the first six hundred yeares it was taken for no absurditie There is no man I thinke that hathe bestowed anie time in the ecclesiasticall histories ignorant what a doe Theodora the Empresse wife to Iustinian the Emperour made to haue Siluerius the pope depriue Menna the good archebishop of Constantinople and to restore Anthimius the heretike laufully before by Agapetus the pope depriued To the which wicked attempt when by no meanes the good pope coulde be brought to consent false accusations were brought in against him and so he was by tirannie remoued and cōstreined to flee to a towne called Patara of the prouince of Lycia Whither the emperour Liberatus in Breuiario cap. 22. on a time comming the bishopp there as Liberatus the Archedeacon of Carthage writeth complaining to him and calling to witnesse the iust and terrible iudgemēt of God for the vniust expulsion of the bishop of so greate a seate addeth at the last these wordes Multos esse in hoc Many Kinges to gouerne the worlde one pope to gouerne the churche mundo reges non esse vnum sicut ille papa est super ecclesiam mundi totius a sua sede expulsus that there are manie kinges in this worlde and that there is no one only kinge as that pope is ouer all the whole churche of the worlde expelled from his seate Doe you not here see M. Nowell that within the first 600. yeares the whole worlde was gouerned by one heade in spirituall matters without anie necessitie to haue it so gouerned in temporall Woulde this good bishop is it credible being a suter to the Emperour if the churche had not bene gouerned by one heade at that time or if it had bene an absurditie that there shoulde be one chiefe bishop and manie equall kinges haue dasshed the Emperour in the mouthe with suche an absurde and flatte lye Or woulde the Emperour vpon this talcke immediatly haue caused Siluerius to be called backe againe into Italie and not rather haue checked the bishop for abusing him with a lye if he had not acknowledged his wordes to be true Thus muche I trust maye serue to make the indifferent reader vnderstande that I reprehended not the Apologie without iust cause You re railing against me because it is as youre selfe cōfesse fol. 39. a. beside the matter I passe ouer But so can I this by no meanes that yow take it for no reproche yow saye to haue Nowell b. 1. youre congregation secrete scattred and vnknowen to all the worlde because this is common to yow with the primitiue churche of oure Sauiour Christe and his holie Apostles Considre I beseche the good Reader whether these newe Dorman vpstart heretikes of oure age be not brought
that Christ gaue power of losing and binding to al indifferently and that therfore Peter had no more premineÌ„ce then the rest is a naughty and vntrue reason as appeareth by these wordes of S. Hierome tamen etcae yeat one is chosen etc. Thirdly I gather that seing the apostles were bishoppes this Maxime of youres is cleane ouerthrowen that all bishoppes be equall and that no one hathe anie other ouer him seing the Apostles being bishoppes had Peter to be their heade Fourthly I note that this confession was wroong as it were by violence from S. Hierome by the force of his aduersarie his reason Which being that priestes might marie seing Peter the heade of the Apostles was maried it had bene for S. Hierome his vantage to haue denyed that he was heade of them to haue sayde as yow doe that they were all equall and no one aboue the other And so woulde he we maie be suer being so vehement and learned an aduersary as he was if it had not bene so manifest a truthe that it coulde be no more denied then that Peter was maried His qualifieng of the place here that the churche was in an other place builded vpon all maie giue vs to vnderstande what he woulde quickly haue done if Christe had not for all that specially made Peter the heade By this appeareth the corrupt iudgement of Erasmus who in his notes vpon the epistle Ad Marcellam where S. Hierome hath againe that the churche was builded Tom. 2. ad Marcellam adueâ—sus Montanum vpon Peter giueth this iudgement Hoc detorquet in commendationem Petri. This he wresteth to the commendation of Peter Last of all it is to be noted that in S. Hieromes time it was acknowledged euen by heretikes that Christe appointed this ordre of one heade as appeareth by this that Iouinian grounded him selfe thereupon in reasoning against S. Hierome for the maintenaunce of his heresie Vpon the which last note some other maie happely note that yow and youre companions are more shamelesse heretikes then were Iouinian and his To this place of S. Hierome I will adde one other to shewe that yow abuse his auctoritie to muche in labouring to founde vpon him this vntrue proposition of youres that not by goddes lawe but by mannes this ordre of one heade in Christes Churche shoulde be established The wordes off S. Hierome alluding to the house mentioned in the ghospell where Christe eate his passeouer are these Dominus domus Petrus apostolus est cui dominus domum suam In cap. 14. Marci credidit VTSVBVNO PASTORE SIT VNA FIDES The maister of the house is Peter the Apostle to whome One head shepherde that the faithe maye be one oure Lorde committed his house that vnder one shepheard the faithe maye be one Doe yow not see M. Nowell the necessitie of one heade that vnder one shepherd the faithe maye be one Heare yow not that it is not mannes deuise that it be so but Christes owne ordinaunce Haue you not with all S. Hierome expounding as it were the wordes of S. Cyprian tamen vt vnitatem manifestaret vnitatis eiusdem originem Lib. de vnitat ecclesiae ab vno incipientem sua auctoritate disposuit yeat to make vnitie manifest he Christe disposed by his auctoritie the beginning of this vnitie to procede from one by these wordes of his That vnder one shepherde there maye be one faithe By this it appeareth that S. Hierome is not of that minde that yow woulde haue him to be that is that this ordre of hauing one heade in the churche shoulde be off mannes ordinaunce not of Christes institution But here yow will aske me how I can then reconcile him and make him agree with him selfe who in this place hath that one Quòd vnus postea electus est S. Hierom expounded by him selfe was afterwarde chosen to rule the rest If after saye yow then not vpon goddes lawe Yes I reconcile him after this sorte M. Nowell If yow vnderstande this place to be of the Apostles then he expoundeth him selfe in the place that you harde before where allthough he confesse that in one place Christe builded the churche equally vpon all his Apostles which was done streight after his resurrection Ioan. 20. yeat in an other he graunteth that the good maister for so he calleth Christe there builded it vpon Peter a little before his ascension into heauen whome he appointed Ioan. vlt. to be the heade of the rest So that the worde here Postea afterwardes hath relation to that ordinarie prerogatiue of S. Peter giuen to him at Christes assension at whiche time he perfourming the promise made before to Peter in the future tense to builde his churche vpon him Matth. 16. appointed him as Chrisostome saieth vpon that place to haue orbis terrarum curaÌ„ the charge of the whole worlde Homil. vlt. in Ioan. vlt. If yow vnderstande not these wordes one chosen afterwarde to rule the rest of the Apostles but of the gouernement in particuler churches as because of the example brought by S. Hierome of the churche of Alexandria you thinke they shoulde then Postea afterwarde must haue this sense that whereas vnder one generall heade of Christes churche the particuler churches were at the beginning gouerned by manye heades and common consent whiche was as Epiphanius saieth because the apostles could not furthwith take ordre for all thinges his wordes are non enim omnia statim potuerunt Apostoli constituere for the apostles could not furthewith take ordre for all things afterwardes the state of the church being better Lib. 3. haeâ—es 75. setled and being come to vse the words of Epiphanius ad propriaÌ„ mensuraÌ„ to her own measure that ordre appearing to be such as was not coÌ„uenieÌ„t for the gouernemeÌ„t of the churche was alltered and one chosen to rule alone for the auoiding of schismes in euery particuler church not as though S. HieroÌ„ should meane that the vniuersall churche lacked at anie time one heade or had bene gouerned by diuerse the coÌ„trarie wherof he affirmed before but that afterward particuler churchs began to see the necessitie of one head ouer euerie churche according to the patern wherein Christ appointed Peter to be the chiefe head of all As S. Hierom him selfe in an other place doth well declare where he saieth An tequà m diaboli instinctu studia in religione fierent c. Before by the instigation of the diuell factions were made in religion and In cap. 1. epi. ad Tit. 1. Cor. 1. one saide I am of Paule I am of Apollo I of Cephas the churches were gouerned by the coÌ„mon councell of priestes But after that euery one thought those that he baptized to be his and not Christes it was thorough out all the worlde decreed that one being chosen out of the priestes shoulde be set ouer the rest to whome all the care of the churche should belong and the occasioÌ„ of
leane vnto so notable a lie The first exception against this testimonie of Leo is this Nowell b. 13. No man maie be witnesse in his owne cause nor iudge Therefore Leo his testimonie brought furthe for the preeminence of his own See is not to be admitted c. This exception of youres yow proue by reason by scripture by lawe First to answere youre reason if reason theire maie be in Dorman anie so vncharitable a iudgement I saie it is false that the holiest and best men be lightly partiall in their owne matters He is neither holie nor good much lesse to be accounted amongest the holiest and best that for the bettring off his owne cause will swarue from the truthe Youre testimonie alleaged out of the ghospell is not to the purpose Ioan. 5. For that place proueth not that allwaies the testimonie that a man giueth of himselfe is false but that when a man hath to doe with aduersaries that will not otherwise beleue him as the Phariseis woulde not Christ then he must vse the testimonie of other theÌ„ him selfe Which as Leo in such case you maie be suer did so wheÌ„ the matter was so farre froÌ„ being by anie aduersarie gainesaide that he made his commission B. 25. to the bishop of Thessalonica to be in his steade thorough out Grecia and other countries adioning as he did here what nede had he there to bring anie proufes where there was at all no doubte If yow will saie that I defending the auctoritie of the pope bring Leo against yow which are the aduersaries and that therefore nowe becawse you are against Christes vicair as the Phariseis were against Christe him selfe for so doe yow confesse that you M. Nowell confesseth him selfe to reason against Leo as the phariseis dyd against Christ reason as they did although perhappes yow woulde haue bene angrie with an other that should haue saide so much so I must bring other witnesse then him except I will take the foile To that I answere that you come nowe to late with that exception if it had no other faulte For to answere you who dispute so depely oute of the lawe like one that is not alltogether ignorant therein conclusum est in causa M. Nowell sententia transijt in rem iudicataÌ„ I nede not to expounde these termes vnto you who haue the marow of the glose euen at youre fingres endes For other men who haue not atteined to such knowledge I saie that seing in Leo his time when he appointed in this epistle the bishop of Thessalonica in his steade thorough out Grecia and other countries adioining in an other place the B. of Orleance or some other thorough out Fraunce Hormisdas bishop of Hispalis to be his vicair in Spaine the churches that theÌ„ were and in to whose power the churches of this time succede excepted nothing against these doinges of his in his owne cause as you surmise but suffered theÌ„ to passe till our time the space of 1100. yeares and odde I answere I saye for replie to youre exception that had this testimonie bene being vrged by the rigour of the lawe insufficient that yeat forasmoche as the churche from that time hetherto accepted it for sufficient you come now to late to propose matter against it To make the matter by example more plaine if my auncestor a hundred yeares past in a contention betwene him and some other aboute a piece of landes woulde vpon trust of the vpright conscience of some neare kinsman of his aduersaries admit him to be a witnesse or iudge in the matter whome he might laufullie repell might I if sentence were giuen against my auncestor by the meanes of this iudge or witnesse come after the 100. yeares and excepte against the witnesse or iudge Leo speaketh not nowe M. Nowell he gaue this testimonie that the giueth 1100. yeares agoe The whole churche iustified his persone then to be bothe holie and blessed It is to late and to muche shame also for yow to starte vp now and saye the contrary Thus muche might be saied if it were true that Leo had bene witnesse or iudge in his own cause But the truthe is it is not his cause it is the cause of Christes church and of the whole ordre of priesthod For he pronouÌ„ceth for that seate vnde vnitas sacerdotalis exorta est froÌ„ whence priestly vnitie Cipr. li. 4. Epis 9. â—libi came Neither is Leo in this place more to be reiected for mainteining the supremacie of Peters seate wherein he theÌ„ sate then are the testimonies of S. CipriaÌ„ mainteining the iurisdiction of his owne bishoprike against stubborne rebelles Shall S. Hieromes auctoritie against deacons who woulde be equall with priestes be of no auctoritie because him selfe was a prieste This is not the meaning M. Nowell of the glose as greate a gloser as you be The glose meaneth that in priuate matters that concerne the pope as he is likewise How the glose brought by M. Nowell is to be vnderstande a priuate maÌ„ he shal not him selfe be iudge but in those thinges which concerne the whole bodie of the church and beloÌ„g to the ordre therof and haue no other iudge in earth it taketh not away the power of being witnesse or iudge Pighius you saye alleaged beside the decree of the pope the councell Nowell fol. 46. a. 1 of Vienna lest anie man might estemethe auctoritie the lesse as proceding from the pope in his owne case And by this yow saye it maye seeme that he thinketh the popes onelie testimonie in his owne cause not to be sufficient Pighius was neuer of that minde that you would haue him seme to be When he spake these wordes he touched Dorman the humour and noted the fashion of heretikes and therfore ex abundanti he cast in the mention of the councell of Vienna which I coulde doe also if that woulde helpe the matter and for Vienna giue yow Calcedon for 300. bringe yow 630. bishoppes that called Leo the kepar of Christes vineyard vniuersal bishop with other termes to that effect I forbare to alleage I confesse so muche in one place off a 28. my boke the notable testimonies of Clemens Anacletus Euaristus Alexander Xistus Telesphorus Pius Victor Fabianus and suche other onely because the gainesaiers might happelie haue excepted against them that because they were bishoppes of Rome they were not in that cause which was there owne indifferent witnesses How saye you M. Nowell what gather you hereof That you might laufullye take exception to them as not indifferent If you gather so you wrangle with me My wordes that went before in whiche to iustifie their persones and to shewe how vnlaufullie you shoulde doe it I called them martirs and in the whole course of their liues verie apostles doe witnesse with me the contrarie Yeat saide I that you might doe it de facto not de iure as you maie kill a man in dede but
disposuit Hoc erant vtique caeteri apostoli quod fuit Petrus pari consortio praediti honoris potestatis SED EXORDIVM AB VNITATE PROFICISCITVR VT ECCLESIA VNA MONSTRETVR That is to saye And although oure Lorde gaue like power to all his apostles after his resurrection and saide As my father sent me so sende I you Take you the holie ghost whose synnes you forgiue they are forgiuen whose sinnes you reteine they are reteined yeat to set furthe vnitie he disposed by his auctoritie the same vnitie to beginne of one That were trulie the other apostles also that Peter was indued with like felowship of honour and power but the beginning commeth from vnitie that the churche maie be declared to be one These be the wordes of S. Ciprian faithfullie alleaged and trulie englished I will now repeate the matter euen from the beginning and doe you good Readers to vnderstande the cause why S. Cypriā mentioneth here at all S. Peter and why he entreth in to this comparison betwene him and the other apostles and then after make you priuey to the misteries of M. Nowelles sleight in alleaging this place which he perhappes thinketh that no man knoweth but him selfe and woulde I dare saie be lothe that anie mo shoulde For the first it is to be vnderstande that not manie lines before this place that I haue nowe in hande S. Cyprian complaining of the fraude and subtilite of oure enemie the diuel saith that now that idolles be euerie where destroied he hath bethought him of a newe waie to deceiue mankinde and that is by heresies and schismes to carie them oute of the churche And this commeth to passe saieth he while men come not to the beginning of truthe the heade is not sought out neither the doctrine off oure heauenly maister kepte which thinges if a man woulde considre and examine there woulde nede no long discourse nor greate argumentes The truthe hath made the way to proue the faithe easy Oure Lorde saieth to Peter and vpon this rocke will I builde Math. 18. my churche c. And after his resurrection he saieth to him feede my shepe And although after his resurrection he gaue all his apostles like power and so furthe as I rehersed before After all this he addeth Hanc ecclesiae vnitatem qui non tenet tenere se fidem credit This vnitie of the churche he that holdeth not thinketh he that he holdeth the faith Thus farre S. Cipriā The occasion you see that moued him to mention Peter Note and to compare him with the other apostles was because to auoide schismes we must he said seke out vnitie by the scripture where we shoulde finde that our lord woulde haue his churche to begin of one of him to whome he saide thow art Petre and vpon this rocke will I builde my churche Well then must this be reteined as a truthe in the meane season if we will be within the vnitie of the churche we must kepe vs in that churche which beginning and springing out of one roote or flowing out of one heade founteine for these be also in this place S. Cyprians similitudes is one Now let vs applye the place as it is alleaged by you M. Nowell and see whether you haue vsed S. Cyprian wel or no. You alleage the place to proue such an equalitie emongest th' apostles as that there should be no difference emongest thē and so ouerthrowe all S. Cyprians drift whereby he woulde proue the churche to be one because it taketh beginninge of one For if they be all equall and no difference betwene them then either the churche hathe no one beginning or 12. beginninges If no one beginning howe can the vnitie procede of that which is not if 12 how can the churche be therefore one because as S. Cyprian saieth the vnitie thereof beginneth of one or what beginning call yow that of vnitie that commeth from suche an equall multiplicitie If therefore it be builded vpon one alone as by S. Cyprian it appeareth that it must then is that one aboue the rest Nowe to haue the churche builded vpon one is thus muche to saye that as in a materiall building there is one foundation whereupon all the rest thereof stone tymbre Iron and what so euer elles leaneth so there is in the churche one to whome after Christe the great rocke and firste grounde all the rest that be membres thereof muste as it were leane he him selfe bearing the burdē of the whole building Is not this to be the chiefe stone in Gods building If you shoulde here perhappes wrangle and saye that although it appeare by this place that Christe disposed the beginning of vnitie to procede from one and from Peter toe that yeat here is no mention that the churche shoulde be builded vpon him notwistanding that Christe speaking off Peter saide he woulde builde it vpon that rocke then I remit you for the proufe that S. Cipriāmeaneth so here to those places of his lib. 1. epist 3. epist 8. 12. lib. 4. epist 9. lib. de habit Virgin lib. de bono pati epist ad I ubaianum And last of all to the epistle ad Quintum where he hath in expresse wordes against this equalitie that you dreame of Petrus quem Dominus primum elegit super quē aedificauit ecclesiā suam Peter whome oure Lord chose to be the chiefe and vpon whom he builded his churche This because yow sawe M. Nowell M. Nowell shamefully misuseth S. Cypriā that the verie wordes of S. Cyprian in this place did purport and that alleaged wholly they were to vnequall to serue your fantasied equalitie you first hewed of this knot Et quamuis and although Then you shaued cleane awaye tamen vt vnitatem manifestaret yeat that he might make vnitie manifest vnto this place Hoc erant vtique And yeat that sentence escaped not youre fingers for the last parte thereof Sed exordium but the beginning procedeth from vnitie you pared cleane awaye First the worde Quamuis althoughe is of suche a nature that where so euer it be put it is a messenger that signifieth some diuersitie like to followe as when S. Cyprian saide here although the Apostles were equall that which foloweth yeat he disposed the beginning off vnitie to begin of one argueth in that point some inequalitye Againe the wordes that folowe tamen vt vnitatem manifestaret yeat that he might make vnitie knowen and vt ecclesia vna monstretur that the churche may be shewed to be one These you passed ouer because in them lyeth the very cause why oure Sauioure hath appointed one to be aboue the rest for vnities sake because otherwise it coulde not haue bene chosen but so manie rulers so manie faithes and then where had vnitie bene Beside this the worde ab vno incipientem beginning of one lefte also quite oute ouerthroweth that false proposition of youres that to vnite the churche and make it one in earthe
to 15. wordes I can not but thinke that his pleasure was by a young man suche as I am to shewe how little those greate pillers off their side were hable to doe I am not I confesse of that reading and studie in diuinitie that manie other be in oure countrie What so euer it be that is in me I vowe it to Christe and his catholike faithe against all heretikes and heresies during my life And suerlye that littell which I haue shal I trust I will saie with S. Cyprian dico prouocatus dico dolens dico compulsus I saie it being prouoked I saie it sorowfully I saie it compelled by yow thereto be sufficient at all times to matche with yow in anie of those foure questions that I haue handled in my boke For why should I doubte by the aide of God to be hable to saie in defence of the catholike faithe more then yow shall against it Yow saie that hetherto I haue proued nothing and that I Nowell fo 51. b. 1. haue gone about most lewdely to gather that because euerie seuerall countrie citie and companie haue their seuerall princes rulers and heades that all churches dispersed in all countries cities townes villages c. shoulde haue one onelie heade here in earthe I reasoned and yeat doe reason in this wise Euerie seuerall Dorman countrie because it is one bodie euerie seuerall citie and companie for the same cause must haue their seuerall rulers and heades Therefore all the churches in the worlde being but one misticall bodie must haue one chiefe heade to rule and gouerne the same I reasoned after the same māner Euerie particuler churche as hath S. Ciprian and S. Hierome must haue one bishop to rule the same and to be the heade thereof Therefore the whole churche of Christe where the daunger of schismes is greater and the mischiefe likelier to happen must haue in like case one heade I haue shewed yow nowe that youre reasons to the contrarie There is no one head ouer all the kingdoms in the world and it is impossible that there shoulde be one suche therfore in like maner it is impossible that there shoulde be one generall heade in earthe ouer the vniuersall church Fol. 32. b. 14. ar of no force forasmoche as the difference of these two states is suche as suffreth Supra cap. 11. fol. 49. b. 50. b fol. 50. a 61. a. not youre argument to holde As because the diuision off vnitie that is of faithe in the churche for the maintenaunce wherof this ordre was takē that there should be one heade in the whole church is merueilouse daungerouse to christian men forasmoch as without faith there is no saluatiō as hath our Sauiour him selfe Qui non crediderit condemnabitur Marci vlt. Heb. 11. he that beleueth not shall be damned And the Apostle Sine fide impossibile est placere deo To please God without faithe it is a thing impossibile Whereas it is not so touching the obseruation of anie other vnitie emongest Christian men in ciuile policie forasmuche as it is not necessarie that all agree in common gouernement but they maie well according to the diuersitie of countries tongues conditions of men haue diuerse maners of liuing and gouernement Yea it is necessarie the contrarie natures of men and countries so requiring that there be not onelie diuerse but contrarie positiue lawes in diuerse countries and prouinces When notwithstanding no diuersitie of natures no varietie of customes no circumstances what so euer they be can excuse them from the vniforme obseruing in all the whole worlde of godde◠commaundementes and ministring of his sacramentes without the which there is no entraunce to life To this maye be added that to gouerne the whole churche in spirituall thinges how harde and impossible a thing so euer it seme to you is yeat much more easie to be done then to gouerne the worlde in temporall gouernement bothe because the businesse and affaires of the worlde are more diuerse and contrarie then are those of the church and also because the sworde of excommunication wherewith the heade of the churche dothe punishe rebelles and suche as forsake the truthe passeth soner and easelier to the correction of suche offendours be they neuer so far of then doth the materiall sworde which the temporall magistrate vseth Againe that there shoulde be one head ouer the whole churche it is Christes institution who woulde so haue it when committing to Peter the charge of aswell his shepe as his lambes he made him generall shepherde and Homil. 87 in cap. 10. han 21. ruler as saith Chrisostome ouer the whole world Whereas in temporall gouernement it appeareth not by the scriptures that he planted euer anie suche ordre Naye the scripture Eccles 17. maketh mention of the contrarie if we will beleue yow It foloweth Nowell b. 17. You haue hearde also how ignorantly if he did not vnderstande how shamelesly if he did vnderstande he hathe alleaged S. Cyprian and S. Hieromo for him c. Men haue hearde M. Nowell doubt you not how like a Dorman propre mā you haue quit your selfe And yeat as though no man had sene you hetherto with a shamelesse repetition of a nombre of lies made before you turne you as it were about againe to be better considred Howe S. Ciprian and S. Hierome make not againste me but euidentlye with me how vaine or rather a balsphemouse lye it is to saie seing God hath so appointed it to be that it is impossible that there shoulde be one only heade ouer the whole churche How my witnesses agree with moste perfite consent it hathe bene to your shame before declared Yow see there was no suche opinion muche lesse knowledge Nowell of any suche heade emongest the Apostles or in the primitiue churche but that it is a newe diuelishe deuise of the late ambitiouse bishoppes of Rome who when they were neuer able yeat hitherto well to rule the churche of Rome one citie as by all histories and experience is euident woulde yeat of the worlde vsurpe the superioritie and supremacy And if S. Paule did thinke he was not meete to haue charge of one church who coulde not well gouern his own house of what mōstrouse ambitiō and presumption is he that being neuer yeat hable to gouern one peculier church doth claime the regiment of all churches thorough out the world whereas he is not hable to tell the onelie names of a small parte of the saide churches neither knoweth in what parte a greate many of them be Are yow not ashamed M. Nowell to call it a newe diuelishe Dorman deuise of the late bishoppes of Rome and to saye that there was no suche opinion of one heade emongest the Apostles or in the primitiue churche seing that S. Cyprian and Hierome who yow saye vntrulye are againste Epist ad Quint. fracrem Lib. 1. aduers Ioninian me doe make mention thereof as I shewed before
Religion was considered Dorman two wayes either as it perteineth to faithe or to maners In the first sense there was neuer man nor woman yeat that woulde otherwise haue answered you not if yow had met ten thousande one after an other but that they were all Christians That they did customably otherwise answere it was in this latter sense as taking those that asked them the question to meane of their rule and profession of life not of their faithe whereof they had cause to thinke that the demaunders of suche questions being Christians were not ignorant Of this there can be no better proufe then that if in Englande when religiouse men were there of Fūladres Spaine Italy or any place where they now be a knowen Iue or infidell shoulde aske any religiouse man or woman of what religion they were they woulde to suche a one answere furthwith that they were Christiās not Franciscanes Dominicanes etc. because they would iudge the question to concerne religion as it perteineth to faith not otherwise And so what haue you gotten by this These so diuerse sectes of false religion abandoned now out of Nowell fo 56. a. 1. England and the one true religion of oure Sauiour Iesus Christe only there remaining I merueile with what face you can charge vs with schismes and sectes which is youre owne speciall sore These so diuerse ordres of religiouse men being all of Dorman one religion by beliefe and therfore no schismes nor sectes of false religion these by youre meanes being wickedly abandoned out of Englande whereas they remaine yeat in all catholike countries to the inestimable comforte of good people and so manie false religions schismes and hesies brought in by you in to their place as well with vs as elles where where you haue displaced them I merueile with what face you can charge men and wemen of one faithe and beliefe with schismes which is a breache of the cōmon faithe I merueile with what harte you coulde charge the blessed Apostles the Nicene councell the learned fathers with norishing of schismes and sectes emōgest them for squaring only about priuate matters I merueille with what stomake you coulde alleage schoolemen and Logiciners to proue schismes ▪ and sectes emongest the Catholikes I merueile with what vnbridled boldenes you coulde call the diuersitie of apparell girdles hose yea shoes diuersitie of meates c. the verie propertie of schismes and sectes Last of all ▪ I merueile with what face you can charge vs with schismes and sectes which is youre owne special sore And where you warne the renders vpon experience of the multitude Nowell of schismes lately risen sithen the forsaking of that one popishe heade to credite the auncient fathers as witnessing with you against vs you might as iustly warne them to credite the auncient Phariseis rather then Christe and his Apostles bothe for that the In psal 54 first heresy as S. Augustine saieth sprang emongest the disciples off Christe c. and also for that in the Apostles time some vsed such schismaticall sainges as these we holde of Paule some other we holde of Cephas c. whereas there was no such dissention emongest the highe priestes and phariseis but greate vnitie and concorde amongest them against Christes Apostles Nowe M. Nowell hauing done what he can to charge Dorman vs with schismes and knowing withall howe simple the stuffe is that he hathe brought hath founde at the length that it is best to renewe his former plea that is that it is no such greate matter though they agree not emongest them selues especially seing that as before he tolde vs that the Apostles were at dissension emongest them selues so here he will proue the like of the disciples and againe to deface oure vnitie and quiete agrement he hathe founde it to be right good councell to saye that that is no such great matter as the which is cōmon to vs with the Phariseis against them Christes Apostles and disciples forsothe Nowe is not here as I tolde you before a goodly religion Protestāts deface vnitie that maketh the Apostles and disciples of Christe schismatikes that when it can not haue vnitie to mainteine it laboureth all that it can to deface it But nowe let vs heare howe he proueth that their side ought not to be charged with schismes and sectes because I might as iustly he saieth warne men to credite the auncient phariseis rather then Christe and his Apostles Why then were there sectes and schismes betwene Christe and his Apostles as there are betwene Luther and his folowers or agreed the Phariseis in vnitye of one truth not onely against Christ and his but emongest them selues also as we Catholikes doe and euer haue done against Luther whome in this argument M. Nowell yow resemble to Christe and his Apostles For sectes and schismes to be betwene Christe and his Apostles that yow dare not plainely affirme but whereas that being the pretence whereby yow woulde defende youre schismes that yow shoulde haue proued yow leauing it altogether vnproued thinke youre selfe sufficiently discharged because the disciples of Christe fell into heresie Not doubting but emongest the simpler sorte heresie being proued within lesse then two lynes after the mentiō of the Apostles in the disciples they not obseruing the difference betwene Apostles and disciples woulde easely be deceiued and beleue that yow had sufficiently proued the Apostles heretikes For answere to this that yow bring here of the disciples I saye in fewe wordes that these disciples were not of the Apostles but of suche folowers and hearers of Christe as forsooke him before his passion when he preached of the blessed Sacrament as it appeareth in the ghospell The Apostles remained still with Christe their heade Ioan. 6. and forsooke him not Betwene Christe and them was moste perfecte vnitie and agreement Howe can yow then I praye you charge Christ and his Apostles with schismes because of the disciples departing frō Christ Let vs graūte your imaginatiō if you cā not otherwise vnderstād reason that Luther were Christ and Carolstadius Melanchthon with some other his Apostles If this your new Christe and his Apostles agreeing all in one faithe some other disciples comming to them shoulde reuolt and departe from them againe were this nowe a iust cause to call Luther and his companye agreeing all in one schismatikes I thinke yow will not saye so at the least there is no reason why suche departure shoulde preiudicate or hurte them that remaine quiete still as they did before If yow will not nor can not saye thus of Luther why saye yow so off Christe and his Apostles Why saye yow that we maye as iustlye call them schismatikes as we doe yow whereas youre false Christe and his owne Apostles neuer agreed together and oure true Christe with his his neuer disagreed And this is the cause why we call yow heretikes and schismatikes because yow nourishe and encreasse those heresies and schismes that
sprong vp euen with youre first maister and his scholers as youre selues can not denie and departe from Christes knowen churche or elles Christe had no churche at all as those disciples off Christe that you speake off did With whom youre resemblaunce is so muche the greater because that as these first heretikes departed from the church Christe and his Apostles because they would not beleue in Christes doctrine of the blessed sacrament so haue you parted a greate nombre of yow from vs for the same cause and mainteine the same heresie as S. Augustine In psalm 54. calleth it Nowe as it were no good reason to proue vs schismatikes because yow are parted from vs being onoe as yow can not denye of vs so can no man iustly charge Christe and his Apostles with that crime because his disciples parted from him And as I answere to this so doe I to youre other obiections of the schismatikes in S. Paules time of those other also of the Nicolaites the Simonians Cerinthians c. who all parting from the knowen churche of Christe ought not to preiudicate the same For their departure was alwaies so sensible that the true christian might saye with S. Iohn They haue departed from emongest Ioan. 1. cap. 2. vs but they were none of vs. The Apostles and their companye remained alwaies a visible and knowen churche So that these examples can nothing helpe to couer your schismaticall sores whereas in Christe and the Apostles them selues there was neuer anye breache of vnitie whiche yow shoulde haue proued lykewyse therby to excuse your first Christ and his Apostles Whereas an other plea of youres is that emongest the high priestes and Phariseis there was no dissention but greate vnity and concorde emongest them against Christes Apostles to that I saye that although they agreed in this all to persecute the Apostles yeat emongest them selues they were Ioseph lib. Antiq. Iudaie 13. cap. 8. diuided into sectes and schismes some being called Phariseis other some Sadduces and yeat a thirde secte called Esseni so that they resemble more liuely yow protestantes then vs catholikes agreing as the Phariseis did against the truthe and diuided also with them into sectes emongest youreselues If you departed from vs as Christ and the Apostles you saie did from the high priestes and their churche then should you be at vnitie and concorde emoÌ„gest your selues as the Apostles were then must you shewe out of the scripture the fall of the churche of Christe the corruption of Esaiae 6â— the same and the restitution in the latter daies to come all Esaiae 66. Hierem. 6. Ezech. 44 Habacuc 2. Act. 7. 13. 28. foreprophecied in the lawe as the Apostles proued oute of the scripture the fall of the Sinagoge the corruption of the high priestes the comming of Messias the placing of the newe lawe that shoulde continue When yowe can proue this and defeate Christes promise made of his churche to be visible and vniuersall ouer all the worlde and to his churche to continue for euer then call vs phariseis hardely Matth. 16. and spare not calle youre selues Christe and his apostles we giue yow leaue For furder excuse of your schismes and diuisions yow fo 56. b. 1. tell vs of the troubles that rose in Iurie and shortly after ouer all the world vpoÌ„ the preaching of Christes gospell c. If diuisions and troubles were then it is not to be merueiled at oure sauiour him selfe saing of him selfe non veni pacem Matth. 10. mittere sed gladium I come not to sende peace but a sworde But oure age is not nowe M. Nowell the primitiue churche oure faithe is not nowe to be begonne of newe It hathe bene with consent of all the worlde established these 12. hundred yeares And therefore youre comparison is lewde and vntrue Yow saie furder And as iustly might yow charge the Apostles and their doctrine Nowell with those schismes sectes and troubles as yow do charge vs with those that haue risen in oure dayes Euer yow harpe vpon that string that yow woulde be Dorman like the apostles which when yow can proue that Christ promised to builde an other churche beside that whereof he made Peter the heade and that frier Martine Luther shoulde be the seconde Messias and Zuinglius or Carolstadius the heade therof then we will easely graunte to you But note againe I praie yow M. Nowell the difference of the schismes arising in the Apostles time and of youre schismes arising in our time The Apostles were not at diuision emongest them selues yow are The Apostles were before those schismes yowe haue risen together with the schismes Those schismes departed out from the Apostles your schismes are within youre selues Againe see the agrement of those schismes with youres and confer the case of the state of the churche nowe with that of the primitiue churche then Those schismes and sectes departed out off the primitiue churche euen so haue yow departed nowe oute of the same churche being of longre continuance They being departed multiplied into mo schismes and parted into farder diuision yow being departed multiply daily from schisme to schisme and newe sectes haue risen sence youre departure from Martin Luther They troubled and disquieted the primitiue church of the Apostles yow trouble and disquiet the catholike churche that nowe is If you demaunde the prouffe of this which I saie answer the booke which I am suer yow will neuer be hable to answere lately set furthe in oure tongue moste truly called The forteresse of the faithe c. And shewe vs as you will stande to it hereafter when the faith and light of goddes holy word which yow saie hathe nowe of late sprong againe was extinguished where and by whome Where it is well knowen to the worlde that oure learned men Nowell haue by their writinges more oppugned and repressed the saide sectes then all the papistes haue done This is that whiche I saide before that yow in dede Dorman wright diligently one against an other which is a moste euident assurance of youre dissention in doctrine And if these youre writinges were in the vulgare tongues to be reade of all men there woulde be no better argument in the worlde to disgrace youre doctrine for euer Whereas yow compare your diligence in writing with that of the catholikes if the late writinges of learned catholikes of all countries especially of Germanie it selfe were in dede compared to youres it shoulde appeare howe false and vntrue this is In dede we must nedes confesse a truthe that whilest we all remained Nowell vnder this quiet obedience of youre Romishe heade in one doctrine of his traditions there was a coloured kinde of quiâ—tnesse c. Foelix necessitas quae cogit ad meliora Happye is the Dorman necessitie whiche forceth to the better Here M. Nowell correcting him selfe for that before he charged vs so heynously withe schismes and sectes wyll somewhat
Who obteining that seate by vnlaufull meanes that is to saie vpon promise made to the Empresse to restore to the bishoprike of Constantinople Anthemius depriued thereof by Agapetus for heresie as sone as euer he entred into that seate the empresse chalenging him off his promise so was his wicked minde by gods speciall prouidence soddenly altered made answere that rather then ▪ he woulde restore an heretike to his seate from whence he was iustlie remoued he woulde soner suffer all the extremitie that might be And so did he in dede lyeng longe in prison suffer bothe hongre colde and diuerse other tormentes Whiche notwithstanding he acknowledged to be worthilie due vnto him for his greate offense The priuileage therefore I saie of this seate is suche that we be assured by his promise that saide to Peter that his faithe should Lucae 22. not faile that as hetherto the pope hathe allwaies fedde Christes churche withe sounde faithe and wholesome doctrine so shall he continue to doe so long as there is in earthe anie churche at all that is so longe as there is a worlde so long as Christes churche militant here in earthe and triumphant in heauen mete not in one to ioyne together And therefore yowe talcke of the popes tirannie to doe and say what he listeth yow talcke without boke M. Nowell and continue youre accustomed wont of sclaundring and lyeng Because yow well vnderstode that all this rouing talcke of youres was wide from the marcke that we shoote at and that happelie some one might saie vnto you that the matter which nowe is handled is whether there ought to be one generall heade in Christes churche or no and that therefore this place was brought in not to proue who it shoulde be or where he shoulde be resident yow thought it good to saie somewhat to this effecte to proue that this place is vntrulie applied to the proufe of the supremacy of one heade But howe proue yow this M. Nowell Because S. Cyprian alleageth this and other like places of scripture Nowell fo 60. a. 6 to make for the seuerall auctoritie of euerie peculier bishopp in his owne diocesse not of one heade ouer all bishoppes What thereof M. Nowell maye not one texte be applied Dorman by diuerse men diuersely and yeat no sense contrarie to the truthe The commaundement of S. Paule Omnis anima Rom. 12. potestatibus sublimioribus subditasit Let euerie soule be subiect to the higher powers maketh especiallie for the auctoritie of Emperours and kinges because it importeth moste that they be obeied yeat will you not I thinke saie that if the Iustice of a shiere or maior of a citie woulde bringe this texte to some stubborne man to wyn him to obedience that it were euill applied or were not when occasion serueth thertoe to be applied to the obedience of a kyng or emperour because it serueth also for his subiect The meaning of S. Cyprian was to persuade obedience to suche priestes as haue the charge to rule to the whiche purpose the example of the high prieste is well applied if it were for no other cause yeat euen for this that euerie bishop is in his owne diocesse the high and chiefe prieste of all the other that be of the same and no lesse to be obeied in that portion of his charge of those that be vnder him then he him selfe is bounde to obeye the pope the chiefe and heade in earthe of all bishoppes It agreeth not you saie that because the Iues one nation had Nowell one chiefe prieste therefore all nations thorough out the worlde shoulde haue one high prieste ouer all other You misuse the reader with the terme nation For not Dorman as one nation but as one Sinagoge as the onelie churche that then God had they had one highe prieste And so all Christians being but one catholike churche though manie nations ought to haue one heade bishop ouer all nations For as for the impossibilitie that yeat once againe you repeate of hauing one heade it hathe bene sufficinetly proned allreadie that that plea of youres is of no force and so far wide from the truth that it is not otherwise possible to haue the church well gouerned and without schismes God hauing nowe taken that ordre Which I saye as of the churche consisting of fraile and sinfull men For as touching God as you saie it is possible to him to gouerne the church without one heade so saye we it is not impossible to him to giue vs one heade to rule the whole and so to direct him that he neuer faile in his decrees concerning oure faithe Which because hetherto in dede he hathe done and beside hath promised that the faithe of Peter shall not faile we saye Lucae 22. of necessitie that it is and must be so S. Cyprian you saye alleageth this place of Deuteronomie of obedience to the high priest aswell for the auctoritie of Rogatianus Nowell a. 21. b. 28. as for his owne This is no more then you saied before which you ofte Dorman repeate to seme by ofte saing one thing to saie somewhat In dede it confirmeth verie muche my answere made before For whereas it is manifest that this place concerning the obedience due to the high prieste is alleaged as well for the auctoritie of Rogatianus who was an inferiour bishop as also for S. Cyprian the archebishop and Metropolitane of Africa it foloweth that S. Cyprian in the citing and alleaging therof had no other meaning then to persuade obedience to euerie bishop of what calling so euer he were bishop Archebishop primate patriarke or pope Excepte you will saye that he was of the minde that betwene bisshoppes and Archebishoppes he put no difference Yea verilie saie you of that minde was S. Cypriā in dede Nowell b. 15. For he confesseth in the beginning of his epistle to Rogatianus that he did but of courtesy and not of dutie refer this matter of his disobedient deacon by complaint to him c. I nede not muche to trauaile to proue that S. Cyprian Dorman shoulde not be of this minde seing that the learned knowe that the verie worde it selfe Archiepiscopus vsed in the churche bothe in S. Cyprians time and long before doth proue the contrarie and youre selfe haue vsed before the worde chiefe prelates of euerie prouince which were toe foolishe to be saied if there were betwen bishoppes no difference at al. Li. 3. epist 9. The wordes of S. Ciprian praising Rogatianus for that he did honorably towardes him and according to his accustomed hunulitie in referring the matter of his stubborn deacon to him being his archebishop whereas he him selfe by his owne auctoritie might haue punished him make nothing for this equalitie betwene all bishoppes If they had bene equall then might belike Rogatianus haue punisshed aswell one of S. Ciprians diocesse as he might the deacon who was of Rogatianus diocesse Which if you saye then will it
one seuerall churche it is like to their fantasie who woulde haue manie equall goddes to rule the worlde But one seuerall ruler in one seuerall dominion one seueral bishop in one seuerall diocesse doe resemble one God ruling one whole worlde I take you at youre worde M. Nowell that if many magistrates Dorman haue equall rule in one common wealthe it is like to their fantasie who woulde haue manie equall goddes to rule the worlde But the churche of Christe saye I is but one An argument against M. Nowell vpon his owne graunte christian common wealthe therefore it foloweth by youre owne confessiō that if manie doe equally rule without relation to one head it is like to their fantasie who woulde haue manie equall goddes to rule the worlde One seuerall bishop in one seuerall diocesse dothe not fo 62. b. 4. resemble one God ruling one worlde as you dreame but one chiefe bishop in the catholike churche whiche in your crede you professe to be but one he M. Nowell resembleth trulie one God without anie presumption at all seing goddes pleasure is it shal be so It was no presumption in the apostles to sit still and suffer Christe to washe their Ioan. 3. feete You knowe what Peter had saide vnto him for streining curtosye as he did That you saie it is a thing vnheard of but in the pope of Rome there you made your bargaine somewhat wiselie We graunt the same and adde beside that it were intollerable presumption for anie other to lay claime to that auctoritie And yeat we trust because S. Peter Homil. vlt. in Ioan. was pope and as Chrisostome saieth maister of the whole worlde and thereto out of the compasse of the last nine hundred yeares and had this auctoritie by Christe and not from Phocas you wil be the better for his sake to all the rest Now foloweth youre conclusion VVherefore M. Dorman and D. Harding maie as well saye that Nowell b. 19. the worlde is seditiously gouerned by diuerse Princes as the churche by seuerall bishoppes But as Nazianzene neuer dreamed of one Emperour ouer all the worlde to auoide sedition though he teacheth there is one God no more did he though he teache one Christe yeat euer dreame of one only heade bishop or pope c. I haue oftentimes shewed here before that the regiment Dorman of the churche is farre different from that of the worlde It shal be nedelesse to repeate it here againe Yow can not therefore reason from the one to the other Whereof Nazianzene dreamed I knowe not of this I am suer that to applye by drift of reasoning the sentence of an Auctor to that which he neuer ment or intēded so that to his meaning and intent it be in no wise repugnant or contrarye is not onely no dreame but the vsage also and practise off learned men And therefore in the lawe manye a case is decided by wordes which the lawier neuer dreamed peraduenture that they euer shoulde be so applyed The better and more excellent the Author is the more ample sense maye be gathered in his writinges As in the Scripture especially the infinite variety of commentaries doth declare Wherefore I doe the more meruell that you a man traded and brought vp in good lettres and a professour off the same shoulde raue rather waking then talke after suche a sorte in yowre slepe dreaming But I knowe the cause youre parte is here altogether to reproue not to proue as by the title of youre boke you warned vs before He speaketh further in his sleape and sayeth Howe shall we Nowell fol. 63 a. 1. Psalm 86 then saie oure lord loueth Syon aboue al the tabernacles of Iacob What this dothe meane or to what purpose it is I knowe not Nor I beleue M. Dorman when he waketh if euer he wake can tel him selfe I am glad that my name ministreth you so muche Dorman matter of scoffing mirthe and sorie that so excellent inuention shoulde be more then halfe loste for that that the gretest parte of youre ministres thorough lacke off the Latine tongue can not perceiue that swete allusion that is betwene dormire in Latin and Dorman in Englishe But thinke you thus to passe ouer the scripture with a sleepish scoffe Thinketh youre noddis nowlle I might saye M. Nowell if I listed to contende with you in this kinde of eloquence so to delude the worde of God that yow maye call it a dreame and so let it slepe No M. Nowell truthe will ouercome when it shal be with you as it was in the beginning And therefore I repeate againe if the Sinagoge of the Iues had one heade to rule them and the churche more ample and therefore in more daunger of schisme and consequently standing in more nede of one heade haue yeat no suche heade then I saye M. Nowell howe dothe God tendre Syon the churche of Christe aboue the Synagoge of the Iues By Syon is ment therefore in this place the churche which oure Lorde loueth more then the Synagoge as Saint Augustine vpon this place dothe in these wordes well declare Diligit illam spiritualem ciuitatem super In. psalm 86. omnia figurata quibus intimabatur illa ciuitas semper manens He loueth that spirituall citie aboue all the figuratiue thinges by the which that citie which euer shall continue was signified This being therefore true it foloweth that he hathe left to vs aswell one heade to rule vs and directe vs in one vniforme faithe as he gaue to the Synagoge Nowe am I awake M. Nowell yow see and can tell you and haue tolde yow what I meane by these wordes Iff yow coulde as well tell what you meant by that musicall twang of youre harpe you should take out of many mennes heades manie odde crachettes You nede not now to be carefull for Pighius waking or to make any combate with his spirite for the matter who slepeth not excepte you will defende the heresie of them that beleue so of all soules but is in perfect rest I trust or in assured hope to be Howe God hathe prouided better for the churche then for the Synagoge and of the strength of my reason drawen from the Synagoge to the churche The 20. Chapter God hath prouided for the churche you saye as well as he Nowell fol. 63. a. 24. did for the Iues and better too Here you graunte all that I saied and more too But let Dorman vs marcke youre mightie reasoning howe you proue it I praye you For whereas they had but one chiefe bisshop for their whole Nowell nation he hath prouided for the churche in euery diocesse one that they may be the better gouerned and lesse pained to trauaile far for the decision of their doubtes and controuersies To this saye we if God had done no otherwise he had Dorman done lesse for the church then for the Iues. For better it is to haue one heade
That whiche foloweth is but a common place of railing wherein because you talke but in youre facultie I can the lesse blame you And to reason sadlye with an outragious rayler were but you wot well to preache to frantike Tom of Bedlem The foundation you saye of altars belles banners candels Nowell fol. 67. a. 3. c. leaneth to this reason of mine It was so in the shaddowe therfore it must be so now in the body in the truth in our church This reason you thinke you saie that I like as well as the former reason of one heade and that reason it is that so I shoulde thinke No M. Nowell you are fouly deceaued if you write as Dorman you thinke But what It semeth to me that you foregtte yourselfe Will you I praye you on high dayes when you distribute those holye misteries of youres weare no cope Or if you doe muste the foundation of the wearing thereof be grounded vppon the Iuish ceremonies No you will answere I weare it because the Quenes Maiesties iniunctions will haue me doe so And oure priestes weare them because the lawes of the churche will haue them doe so Iff of youre doinges the Princes lawe maye be the grownde Whie maye not the churche be the same of oures Now if the Prince may commaunde the ministre to weare a cope Why maye not the same commaunde the bishop to weare a mitre albes and tunicles Whye maye not by the same commaundement altars belles banners candels plentie of golde and siluer be brought into the churche And then if the Prince maye commaunde it why maye not the churche of Christe doe as muche Thus reteine we these thinges as commaunded by the church not as vsed by the Iues. Who euer vseth them so is a Iue who so vseth them so sinneth deadly Neither is the reason like why I should reason from ceremonies in the lawe appointed but for the while as you woulde haue me to that by whiche I argue from thinges foreshadowed in the Synagoge to continue in the church for euer You procede and after my maner of reasoning you aske Nowell a. 13. why you maye not also reason for the scriptures to be had in a language that the people do the vnderstande For priestes to haue wiues for images to be taken awaye seing that in the Iuish churche all the people men women and children had the scripture in a language that they did well vnderstand the Leuites and priestes had wiues and children seing that in that church there were no Images especiallie when reason beside the lawe proueth that it ought to be so Who can denie suche a frende his requeste Will yow Dorman gladlye learne why my argumente shoulde holde and not youres Listen a while and you shall knowe Firste for the Scriptures I take not here vpon me to resolue that question whether it be expedient that they shoulde be in the vulgare tonge or no. For I knowe it is impertinent to oure matter But to youre question I answere that whereas you saie that women and children had the scripture in a language that they did well vnderstand that is once false for firste that Hebrue tongue wherein the scriptures were written was not the common tongue that the people vsed emongest them selfes but suche as being peculier to the learned coulde not beinge vttred by the prieste be vnderstande excepte he did firste expounde and interprete it Nexte beinge writen without pointes that is without anye vowell at all noted in the texte as we haue it nowe pointed when or by whom it is not certeinlie knowen but by the learned Iues them selues as it is thought beinge gathered together in a councell at a towne called Tiberia it foloweth that the vnlearned coulde as euill reade it as vnderstande it beinge readen till it were expounded And for this cause the 72. elders had onelie power and auctoritie to interprete the scripture and to reade it to the people as here in the Chapiter by yow alleaged Moyses dyd This beinge Exod. 24. most true as for the first point we haue the testimonie of that learned bishop Theodoretus the B. of Cyrus for the nexte that of longe time the hebrue tongue remained vnpointed the consent of the beste stories howe had then the people of the Iuishe church men women and children the scripture in a language that they did well vnderstande being readen by other The wordes of Theodoretus are these Vocem Hebraicam arbitroresse sacram Quemadmodum enim In quaest in Gen. q. 60 in templis Graecorum quidam sunt literarum characteres peculiares quos sacros appellarunt Sic deus omnium per Moysen donauit hanc linguam non naturalem sed ad docendum aptam Siquidem cum reliqui omnes loquantur lingua gentis suae in qua nati fuerint nati in Italia Italorū vtantur vòce qui in Graecia voce Graecorum qui in Perside Persarum qui in Egipto lingua Aegiptiorum loquantur nihilominus nulli pueri Hebraeorum reperiuntur qui statim hebraica lingua vtuntur sed eorum apud quos nati sunt Deinde cum parum adoleuerint docentur literarum characteres discunt literis scripturam diuinam hebraica voce scriptam That is to saie The hebrue tonge I thinke to be holie for as in the Greke temples there be certeine peculier characters of lettres whiche they call holie euen so the God of all by Moyses hathe geuen this tongue not naturall but apte to teache for whereas all other do speake the tonge of theire owne nation wherein they were borne and they whiche be borne in Italie vse the Italian tongue being borne in Grece speake the greke tongue in Persia the Persian and in Egipte the Egiptian tongue yet notwithstandinge none of the children of the Hebrues be founde whiche from the beginninge vse the hebrue tongue but their language emongest whom they be borne Afterwarde when they waxe somewhat bigge they be taughte the caracters and letters and learne in lettres holie scripture writen in the Hebrue tongue Yowe here M. Nowell that the hebrewe tongue wherin the old lawe was written was no naturall tongue that the characters and letters were peculiar that is to saie not to be vnderstande of euery man and for that cause called holy as those were that the Grekes had in their temples Yow here that it was not learned by nature as are the Englishe french Italian and other vulgare tongues but by arte as are the latine Greke and Hebrue with vs. So that as the readinge of scripture in latine helpethe nothinge the vnlearned Englishman no more did the reading of the lawe in the Hebrewe tongue proffit the vnlearned till the reader did expounde it For whiche cause by the lawe the people was commaunded to Malach. 2. demaunde the lawe at the priestes mowthe who kepte it And thus much for the lawe for your reason that they that are bounde to obey goddes lawe ought to vnderstande it
sies aboute the which the variaunce is The whiche sentence being giuen then dothe the Scripture alone decide the matter as that which cōteined allwayes the same truth whiche is nowe manifest being before secrete and hidden Whereas you saye that you can make suche good exceptions againste vs that we be not the churche if you had proposed youre exceptions you should haue hearde mine answere But to proue the contrarye that we be the true church I refer the Reader to the Fortresse of the faithe off late set furthe And further those that haue the vnderstanding of the Latine tongue to that shorte but notable epistle of saint Augustine to Honoratus a Donatist where this Epist 161. verye question Honoratus claiming the true churche to their syde as you doe nowe Saint Augustine defending the contrarye is attempted to be betwene them louinglye debated Vide eundē in psalm 101. concione ◠That whiche serued Saint Austen mainteining that the churche of Christe muste be thoroughe oute all the worlde and that therefore he who was of that faithe that all the worlde helde had the right churche on his side not Honoratus whose churche was onelye in Africa why shoulde it not serue for vs against you whose congregation within these fewe yeares was not onely not in anye whole parte of Germanie but in no one knowen man of Germanie nor of all the worlde beside neither Tell vs how Christe lost his churche and it came to you Thus muche for this present maie suffice for it is not meete that euerye extrauagant proposition of youres cast in to make youre boke swell with impertinent matter because you lacked better stuffing shoulde be here handled at large of the whiche eache alone woulde rise to a iust treatise You reioise mightely in the prosperouse successe of your fo 76. 2. 6. newe ghospell Who can let beggers to make much of their ragges Yeat is it not so farre anaunced as was the heresie of Arrius before Neither haue you so muche cause to triumphe vpon the matter all thinges well considered What marchandise you make and how youre gaine riseth in deceauing poore simple craftesmen I knowe not youre market is thought therein to stande at a staye But this I knowe in other countries and here crediblie that in oure owne the wyser and better learned fall dailye from yow You woulde here make men beleue that I was wont in tymes paste to make pastime vppon the stage by playeng b. 11. the vice If you speake this of youre owne deuising it commeth of malice if you speake it vpon the reporte of others of want of discretion so lightly to beleue euery false rumour Howe euer it be a lye it is maliciously feined to discredite my persone and writinges Although if it had bene Alye 67. as you saye bothe manie honest and learned men haue occupied that place in exercise of learning in the vniuersities and yow off all other might worst finde faulte therewith Whose profession the time hath bene was emongest other thinges to plaie the maister foole and to frame your scholers to these manners Of whome some one came sence to suche excellencie herein that whether he atteined to his maisters grace I am not able to pronounce but of this I am suer that of all that were in Oxforde in his time he bare the bell Yow knowe I dare saie Alexander Nowell that taught Gnato his nurtor to drawe his cap ouerthwart his felowe Parmeno his nose when he saluted him with plurima salute suum impertit Parmenonem Gnato And thus much might be saide to yowe had I euer practised that whiche yowe so often haue taught other to doe as by the lessons whiche like a maister in that facultie yow here giue maie to anye man easely appeare My parable of the felon is not impertinent being brought in to disproue the heretikes assertion crieng for onelie scripture and reiecting the visible heade of the churche whiche is the thing that in this first proposition I take on me to proue Yow will helpe yow saie the surmised felon Yow doe well Why shoulde not one frinde helpe an other I perceiue the olde prouerbe is true kinde will creepe where it can not go For how doe yow helpe him I praie yow Forsothe yow saie If the felon appealing for the triall of his innocencie to God Nowell fo 77. a. 12 can bring for him so manie testimonies of goddes owne mouthe as we are able for oure innocencie to bring testimonies of wordes proceding from the mouthe of God and of oure sauiour Iesus Christe and yeat it will not serue the seelie felowe nor helpe him anie thing in his plea of not guiltie then I thinke there can not be a fitter lawe to procede against him then the popes canons which yow knowe well M. Dorman for yowe haue therein spent more time thē in the studie of the scripture neither can he haue a meeter iudge to cōdemne him then the pope him selfe and a handesomer man emongest all men to be I will not saie his hangman but the forman of a popishe quest to passe against the seely soule shall not anie man I beleue easelie finde nor a fitter then is M. Dorman And thus I let his parable passe By what name yow call me M. Nowell hangman or Dorman forman it forceth not youre tongue is no sclaundre It maie beseme me well inough to be miuried by that tongue by the whiche Christe suffreth him selfe and his blessed sainctes to be blasphemed But I praie yowe how helpe yow this pore felon for all the malice that yowe beare to me If he coulde yow saie bringe as good testimonie of his innocencie owte off goddes worde as yowe can for youres c. If he brought no better then were he like to stretche a halter For let vs suppose youre selfe as meete a man as anie that I knowe to occupie this felons roume at the barre and see for youre onelie iustifieng faithe what one worde off scripture yow haue That the sacrament of the altar is only a figure what testimonie of goddes mouthe coulde yow bring That the laie princes are appointed by Christe to be the supreme gouernours in all ecclesiasticall thinges and causes no prince being Christened at the writing of the scriptures that all controuersies ought to be tried by onelie scriptures where is the scripture If the felon coulde bring as good testimonies as yow were he not now thinke yow like to be muche holpen by yowe But I merueile where youre wittes were M Nowell that yow be so far ouersene as where as I putt the case in a felon guiltie and that had well deserued to dye yow woulde euer make such a supposition as though suche a malefactour might finde anie testimonies in the scripture to proue him innocent But I knowe youre meaning well enough Yow thought couertly to signifie that there was no felon that had so grieuously offendid but that he might aswell proue his
with his father is in the * Note same momēt of time handled with all mens handes Thus it appeareth by Chrisostome that Christe is not called out of heauen but being present there with his father is also truly in the sacrament We abhor youre figuratiue presence your tropicall eating We alowe not these meanes because by the scriptures it is manifest that Christe excludeth suche meanes him selfe and of his infinite goodnes giueth him selfe corporally to vs. Wherefore there is betwene vs and the Swenckfeldians in this pointe no conformitie at all The nexte point that you compare vs in to the Swencfeldians fo 86. a. 6 Nowell is because they forbid the Scriptures vtterly we forbid them to be reade of the laitie keepe them in an vnknowē tongue and burne them written in knowen language There was neuer yeat any such prohibitiō that the learneder Dorman sorte of the laitie did not or might not reade the scriptures If to the vnlearneder sorte it were not permitted you shall finde that it proceded rather of reuerence towardes the scriptures and feare of that whiche nowe we see come to passe lest while euerie man should folowe his owne sense the worlde might be filled full of errours and the holie scripture as it happeneth to thinges that be common contemned and set at naught then of anie suche minde as with the which those heretikes reiected the scripture We burne Tindalles testament we burne Mathewes Couerdale his and Geneua Bibles not because they are scripture but because they are by false translations poisoned scripture If the mother take the poisoned breade oure of the childes hande you cā not infer hereupon that she will giue it no breade at all We agree not therfore in this point with Swenckfielde Yow procede in youre comparisons and saie Thow must not be perfecte in the scriptures say these false papistes Nowell to all laye men it is ignorance that is the mother of deuotion it sufficeth a laie man to haue fidem implicitam an implicate faithe c. We saie not that men must not be perfecte in the scriptures Dorman The learned laye mē that be and in al ages haue bene of one faith with vs so excellētly learned and much more perfectly traded in them then perhappes you would doe sufficiently A lye 71. couince this to be a manifest and a grosse palpable lye He that saide that ignorance is the mother of deuotiō if he so saide ment not to exclude the knowledge of any necessarie point of oure faithe but onely the desire of such curiouse vnderstanding the which as being vnknowē it could not make men the lesse Christiās so were it likely to bring to passe that the thinges which vnknowen before they reuerenced and honoured religiously they shoulde nowe first being knowen begin to dispute vpon from disputing come to doubting and frome doubting if not to denieng yeat to lesse esteming of them With whome if you be offendid aske S. Augustine why he taught him to Contra epist Fundam Manich cap. 4 saye so before whose wordes are these after that he had spoken of the more learned sorte caeteram quippe turbam non intelligendi viuacitas sed credendi simplicitas tutissimam facit For the reste of the multitude it is not the liuelinesse off vnderstanding but the simplicitie of beleuing that maketh them moste sure Lo M. Nowell you maie heare by S. Augustine that it is no suche absurditie nor commeth not so nere to Swenckfeldius heresie as you woulde haue it to measure the peoples knowledge Oure forefathers that contented them selues with the knowledge off the articles off their faithe the ten commaundementes of almighty god although it please you sclaunderously to saie of them that they coulde no more explicate what they beleued then can a Popeniaye passed yet so farre youre chattring pies and iangling Iayes in all ciuile honestie and godlye deuotion as the speache of a man passeth that of a Popiniaye I call all indifferent men to witnesse Nowell 28. a. And the papistes speake of the holye Scriptures not onelye as vnreuerently and abhominably as euer dyd Swenckfielde but Borowed oute off the Apologie doe farre passe him in all outrage calling the Scriptures most contumeliously and blasphemously a nose off wax and affirminge it to be but an vncerteine thing and like a rule of leade appliable to euerye wicked sentence and to all purposes except it haue the popes direct on as a moste certeine and infallible rule Dorman It is easy M. Nowell to be perceiued howe you quarrell aboute nothing and for lacke off better stuffe thinke to stuffe youre boke with suche trifflng toyes as these are In the wordes that you alleage oute of Pighius what harme is there I praye you What blasphemie haue you founde fol. 87. a. 6 Pighius belied Is Swenckfielde you saye calling the scriptures deade lettres more wicked thē is Pighius blasphemouse in terming it a nose of wax Why content youre selfe M. Nowell he calleth it not a nose of wax You beely him deadly His wordes are velut nasus A lye 72. cereus like a nose of wax Is it all one to be and to be lyke So doe you also falsifie those other wordes of his tanquam plumbea quaedam regula as a certeine leaden rule and make the comparison betwene the heretike calling the scriptures deade lettres and Pighius terming them a rule of lead a nose of wax and aske what difference there is betwene them whereas if the wordes had bene trulye compared it had bene eth for anye man to haue saide that the difference is greate seing that Pighius spake but by the waye of similitude to signifie how ploiable the scriptures were to al purposes not to condemne them as Swenckfielde did but to warne men in the interpreting of scriptures to folowe that piller of truthe the common sense and sentence of the catholike churche for those are his wordes By this meanes who can let you to quarell with the scripture it selfe and saye that it speaketh vnreuerently of Christe whome it calleth a stombling stone yea you maye finde faulte with 1. Petri. z. Matt. 4. 1. Thess 5. Apoc. 3. e◠16. Christe him selfe that likeneth his owne comming to iudgement to the comming of a theefe If you thinke you haue anye vauntage at Pighius or anye catholike man elles for sayng of scriptures that withoute the direction off the churche they be vncerteine and appliable to euerye wicked sentence as for this you note vs also fol. 86. b. I reporte me to youre selfe whether this be true seing that for this sentence of his of all other moste wicked Swenckfielde hym selfe alleaged scripture Although this sayng also to this effecte be not originally the saing of Pighius but of Tertullian Lib. de praescript aduersus haereset that auncient writer who writing a treatise euen off purpose to displaie the maners and nature of heretikes after that he hathe
haue loked so farre in the 34. and 35. leafe of my firste booke Nowe to the place of Chore Dathan and Abiron of the whiche you saye Nowell B. 5. thus Concerning the reason made by Chore Dathan and Abiron that the people ought not to obeye their gouernours because they be all holye * These wordes and the lorde is emōgest them left oute by M. Nowell Dorman and that therefore the magistrates ought not to lifte them selues aboue the Lordes people it is not oure reason cet No in dede M. Nowell as you haue alleaged it it is not youre reason But if you had trulye reported it it woulde haue gone as nere to your reason as twelue pense to a shilling But you doe here as you did before with the reasons of Swenckfielde that is leaue oute the chiefe reason wherein the comparison is made and then crie oute vpon me for making suche wise comparisons Who seeth not that I compare you hereto these schismatikes refusing to obeye Moises and Aaron not because they saide they were all holy but because they added in ipsis est Dominus and the Lorde is present with the multitude as you refuse that one heade of Christes churche because Christ is present with his churche As for the wordes that you note here in the margent of youre boke multitudo sanctorum and populus domini papae as though you coulde thereby make some shewe that this place might be applyed to Chanon Chore Deane Dathan and his felowes it deserueth to be rather laughed at then answered seing that bothe it is a manifeste lye wherewith you sclaundre the cleargye who neuer called them selues the holy people of the greate Lorde of Rome as you here feine and also it is well knowen that what so euer libertyes and immunities the cleargye had the same were giuen as the faithe encreased by Emperours and kinges them selues and therefore they were moste far from the maner of reasoning vsed by these schismatikes Nowe whereas M. Dorman alleageth the Apologie as thus reasoning Nowell B. 25. that the churche hathe no neede of anie other ruler because Christ is with it truth it is if M. Dormā doe meane one only heade of the vniuersall church For Christe nedeth no suche generall gouernour seing he is bothe present him selfe continually by his spirite as he promised and also for that he hathe in euery peculier countrie and churche his Moises and Aaron that is to saye his feuerall deputies in his steede euerye where here in earth for that no one mortall man can possibly suffice to the gouernaunce of the whole worlde or churche c. If he nede gouernours of euery peculier churche where Dorman he is no lesse present then with the whole why nedeth he not aswell one chiefe heade to gouerne the whole who shall emongest so manie heades diuided into partes euerye one thinking his opinion to be best strike the stroke and preserue vnitie If yowe saie God maie so preserue euerie bishop that he fall not into heresie you put god to worke daily mo miracles then he doth to preserue the chiefe bisshop of all whiche yet you stagger to graunte as a thinge impossible The wordes folowing in youre Apologie that no one mortall man can suffice to the gouernement of the whole fo 96. a. 3. worlde or church I of my accustomed sinceritie omitted yow saye And what haue you gotten by it nowe you haue alleaged it youre selfe Verilie this that you will make all men vnderstande that god is able with you to doe no more then you list to giue him leaue but of this I haue entreated before sufficiently You saye that you are far from rebelling Nowell against youre naturall soueraigne and other gods ministers appointed to gouerne you c. But how farre M. Nowell I Dorman praie you Who made the boke of succession at home Who sounded the two traiterouse blastes against the mōstrouse regiment of women their Quene being a woman From whence were they blowen but from the lake of Gehenna Who grudgeth against the princes ordinaunce in matters indifferent and of small importance no greater then of a square cap Who made warre against their prince in Scotland Who set all Fraunce in an vprore against their king Who but that vnhappy vermine the protestants That which foloweth fol. 96. b. and 97. a. b. is answered before That the waye to ouerthrow Fol. 68. vsque ad fol. 106. heresies is not by the only scripture The 27. chapiter THIS matter hath bene sufficiently handled before in the 21. chapitre And allthough in me it be a greate faulte and highly laide to my charge to alleage thrise one place of scripture yet muste yowe good readers beare withe M. Nowell if he alleage his absurde and wicked assertions more then six times thrise and maie not in any wise twite him with the prouerbe Crambe his that to muche of one thing is naught yea allthough he neuer proue anie of them once But maie yowe not be ashamed M. Nowell so vniustly to M. Nowell repre hending other men for vnreuerent speaking of the scripture speaketh of all other most vnreuerētly him selfe charge Pighius and Hosius with vnreuerent speaking of the scripture when youre selfe in this place applie your prophane prouer be to signifie that to muche of scripture maie be nought that anie place thereof maie so often be alleaged that it shoulde become vnsauory By what auctoritie claime yow I praie yowe tell vs suche libertie that yowe maie speake of the scriptures that whiche is vnlaufull and plaine blasphemie and other maie not vse so muche as similitudes or comparisons betwene the scriptures and other prophane thinges Why is it laufull for yow so oftentimes to repeate these heathenishe wordes that it is impossible for one man assisted by gods grace for otherwise we affirme it not to gouerne the whole churche of Christe that we be like to the Phariseis and high priestes of the Iues you to Christe and his apostles that there ought no more to be one chiefe heade to gouerne the churche then one emperour to gouerne the whole worlde that the pope can not be iudge in his owne cause as though goddes cause were his owne priuate cause with suche like absurdities a nombre mo and maie not be laufull for me to alleage thrise the holie scripture of God to proue three seuerall pointes Firste that it coulde not be likely that God prouiding for his chosen The place of Deuter. alleaged by me thrise to three seuerall purposes people the Iues a chiefe and heade gouernour to ende and determine all their controuersies woulde not for his churche whiche he loueth more tendrely where he knewe shoulde be greater nede doe the like nexte to answere thereby youre foolishe reason Christe is heade of his churche and present allwaies withe it therefore there nedeth no other By which reason I saide that God shoulde haue prouided for the Iues no chiefe
of Rome as Erasmus hathe noted yet he knowing or some man warning him that the house withoute the whiche the paschall lambe maye not be eaten the arke c. by all doctours is interprete to be the one vniuersall church of Christe and by none to be the churche of Rome therefore like a wise man or elles a false fox he let that folowing alone also as he cut of Christe the heade going and ioyned nexte before and so he hathe tolde you a tale bothe withoute heade and tayle thereby to proue the pope who is Antichrist to be the heade of Christes churche Is not this M. Nowell more then intollerable impudencie Dorman to charge me with fraude for the leauing out of that sentence then which there is none either in the workes of S. Hierome him selfe or anie of the other learned doctours that more maketh for the dignitye of the see of Rome for the omitting whereof in my boke I deserued rather to be noted at the catholikes handes of ouermuche simplicitye then at youres of fraude and sutteltye But howe truly here let the place itselfe iudge Omitting Erasmus whose iudgement nowe you condemne which yeat in me might haue bene counted some pointe of leuitie if I had euer praised him as you did before to be no vnskillfull or negligent viewer of the olde fathers writinges I will come to the place it selfe whiche I doubte not but by construing for I truste although you care not muche for the rules of the churche you owe yeat for olde acquaintaunce youre reuerence to the rules of Grammer to make bothe you and other men to vnderstād also how much this place maketh for me and howe little cause I had to suppresse it and howe muche yet lesse you had to make anye mention of it Saint Hieromes wordes therefore concerning this matter are these Ego nullum primum nisi Christum sequens beatit udini tuae id est cathedrae Petri communione consocior Super illam petram aedificatam ecclesiam scio Quicunque extra hanc domum agnum comederit prophanus est Nowe let vs construe M. Nowell Ego I sequens folowing nullum primum none first nisi Christum but Christ cōsocior am ioyned communione in communion beatitudini tuae to thy holynesse id est that is to saie cathedrae Petri to the chaire of Petre. Super illā petrā vpō that rocke what rocke M. Nowel but the same chaire of Peter to the whiche he professed him selfe to be ioyned in communion going nexte before these wordes scio I knowe ecclesiam the churche aedificatam to be builded Quicunque who so euer comederit shall eate agnum the lambe extra hanc domú out of this house prophanus est is prophane Now these wordes being truly by me thus construed euerye man learned and vnlearned maye see that S. Hierome by the house whiche he here mentioneth ment Christes vniuersall churche but builded Super illam petram vpon that rocke whiche rocke in the wordes nexte before he called Petres chaire to saie Petres auctoritie If you can construe them otherwise and make them to haue any other relation then this and proue it by the rulers of Gramer you maye vaunt that you haue showed vs a scholemasters tricke that neuer was harde of yeat But I am halfe in dispare that you shall euer be able seing that youre frinde Erasmus as good a Grammarian as you and as euill in a maner affected to the See of Rome as appeareth in diuerse places by his notes and censures coulde finde no suche shifte and therefore was faine as you muste at the length to confesse the truthe that S. Hierome was of the minde that all churches shoulde be subiecte to the churche of Rome or at the least no strangers from it Nowe whereas you saye that this house that S. Hierome mentioneth is of none interprete to be the churche of Rome what were that to oure purpose if it were so seing it is interprete of the vniuersall churche whiche is of all the auncient fathers acknowledged to be builded vpon Peters chaire as S. Hierome saieth here and as hathe bene declared before S. Cyprian who calleth the churche of Rome for that cause catholicae fidei Lib. 4. epist 8. radicem matricem the rocke and mother churche of the catholike churche Yeat lacke there not also fathers that in a sense that is as in the churche of Rome all other churches are conteined call it also by the name of the catholike churche As in effect S. Ambrose did when he called Damasus the pope ruler of the whole church which he coulde by no meanes be but as he was bishop of Rome Thus In commēt in cap. 3. 1. Tim. muche maie serue for my purgation that I haue not delt fraudulently in leauing out this parte of S. Hieromes sentence Nowe let vs procede Yow make much adoe about Vitalis and Meletius and saie that I saie vntrulie that S. Hierome saieth he knoweth not Nowell fo 111. a. 1. them because they were aduersaries to the seate of Rome the cause being because they were aduersaries to the true doctrine of the moste blessed Trinitie whiche Damasus did defende I reporte me to the learned whether I had cause to saie Dorman so or no not because of these wordes who so euer gathereth not with the scattreth alone which might perhappes be trulie spoken to anie other catholike bishop but because of the circumstances that go before ioyned to these as the consulting of Petres chaire the ioyning of him selfe thereto in communion To the whiche because they did not ioyne them selues as he did he refused them If yow had spoken no more vntrulie then I yowe woulde not to colour the matter the better haue imagined that emongest other causes why S. Hierome kepte not these schismatikes companie one was because they were foriners and not his owne bishoppes an other for that they were of a strange language Ah M. Nowell did yow nodde here that yowe coulde not see that S. Hierome affirmeth that the folowed the Aegiptian confessors the bishop of Romes felowe bishoppes Were not they as muche foriners to him as were Vitalis and Meletius was not their language as strange Yeat yow vpon this desire the reader to note that S. Hierome woulde B. 25. not knowe Vitalis and Meletius because they were foriners not his owne bishoppes c. And so make a comparison betwene youre refusall of the pope and S. Hieromes refusall of these schismatikes laing for a grounde without anye proufe that the pope is a foriner and hathe nothing to doe withe yow Of the place of S. Austen taken out of the 110. question of his questions vpon the olde and newe testament The 29. chapiter HERE M. Nowell vpon the censure of Erasmus of this worcke of S. Austens maketh this shorte but sharpe conclusion against me So that it were to muche impudency for Nowell fo 112. a. 30. Dorman anie man but only M.
currebant ego non mittebam Nowe seing the canon lawe helpeth Hier. cap. 23. you not yea seing it maketh directly against you as the whiche accounteth them headlesse that appointe heades to them selfe without the popes approbation seing at the lawes of the realme you finde as I heare saie as little grace seing that by the scriptures you are condemned for running not being sent what remaineth but to saye that the obeing of your Idoll bishoppes can not excuse you from being headlesse All this a doe hathe M. Dorman made nowe by the space of more Nowell fol. 114. a. 1. Clem. li. 3. Tit. 13. de censib exact cap. cum sit lib. 5. de verb. sig Tit. 10. ca. 1. Ex frequentib Dorman then three leaues to deface scripture as no fitte iudge in controuersies and to persuade vs that the pope like an other Pithagoras by his only bare worde maie and ought to satisfie all men heretikes and others and that it shal be sufficient for him only to saye without reason of scripture why he so saieth sauing this reason only papae est pro ratione voluntas with the pope will standeth for reason as is mentioned in the boke of his owne canon lawe c. Not to deface the scripture M. Nowel haue I made al this a doe there you belye me but to deface heretikes while by this meanes it shall not be laufull for thē to peruert and corrupte it with their false and vntrue expositions The places that you bring out of the canon lawe to proue that it is sufficient for the pope to saye without reason of scripture why he so saieth are two but in neither of those places is that which you saye The first place speaketh of certeine priuileges which the pope for causes and considerations will not haue extendid to monasteries and churches after a certeine time Here saieth the glose vpon this place that the popes will in this case standeth for reason Againe in the seconde place which is not there where you falsely note it here in the margent to be but in the title de sententia excommunicat cap. si summus pontifex of the pope absoluing one excommunicate it saieth as muche but no where in the popes lawe is this odiouse saing of youres founde Loke therfore better bothe vpon the texte and the glose and learne to vnderstande them before you bring them nexte An answere to 8. demaundes made by M. Nowell touching the pope The 30. Chapitre THE FIRST what if there be two or three popes at once Is it not to be doubted which of them shall be this certeine iudge in cōtrouersies Nowell And is not the popish churche in this case in daunger to be a liue monstre as hauing manie heades If there shoulde be so manie popes at once as truly popes Dorman as you professe to haue of your church manie heades at once then should the church be not only in daunger but in deede a liue monstre as youre schismaticall churche is But whereas in truthe there is but one laufull pope it is in no suche daunger as yow fantasy not if there were ten that pretended euery of them right to the papacy If any suche chaunce happen we knowe it chaunceth by Goddes permission who as he hath hetherto so guided his churche that when the like hathe happened it neuer susteined thereby anie detriment in faithe so are we by his promise assured who promised neuer to forsake his churche that he will in no wise permitte in this doubtefull time anye such cōtrouersie to be moued as that maye not withoute the detriment of his church remaine in suspense vntil suche time as God haue reuealed the right iudge and true pope What if there be neuer a pope at all Shall all oure doubtes lye Nowell b. 25. therewhile vndiscussed for lacke of a iudge and youre popishe church so longe two or three yeares together lye as a dead troncke for lacke of an heade If your doubtes be suche as the vsage of the churche the Dorman consent of all nations be not able to explicate then is there no other remedie but by praier to desire allmightye God to kepe from vs no longre this necessarie meane appointed by him in earthe to signifie to vs his holye will and pleasure The churche is not in the meane season a deade troncke no more then one of youre particuler churches is when the bishop dieth For euen as there although not in all thinges the Chapitre supplieth the lacke of the bishop in many so the See of Rome being voide by deathe hathe a graue Senate that supplieth althoughe not in defining of controuersies yeat in manie thinges that want of the heade I trust when the generall heade of the church of England in earthe dieth you will not call your church a deade troncke VVhat if the pope sitte not at Rome in Italie May we not doubt Nowell of the certeintie of the iudge not sitting in the chaire whereof he hath all his certeintie The pope hathe not his certeintie of Peters materiall Dorman chaire but of the auctoritie and power giuen to Petre the signe whereof the chaire is And therefore you nede not to trouble youre selfe with that care whether he sitte in the verye same chaire that Petre did or in some other whether he sit at Auinion in Fraunce or Toletum in Spaine he is allwaies bishoppe of Rome and successour to Petre. And as we saie where the kinge is there is the courte so where the pope sitteth there is Peters chaire to saye Petres auctoritye VVhat if he doe erre VVhat if he be an heretike Nowell The pope maye haue his priuate and personall errours Dorman it can not be denied God onely and not man is priuileaged that he can not so erre But in determining any matter of faithe or deliuering any doctrine to the whole churche he that is the chiefe heade of his churche will neuer suffer him so to erre And therefore I saye with S. Augustine that August epist 165. his misdoinges doe not preiudice the churche If it woulde please you M. Nowell to become scholer to those that you call my maisters as for anie greate learning that you haue showen in this Reproufe of youres it might beseeme you well enough Pighius and Hosius in them shoulde you learne Lib. 4. eccles hierarch cap. 8. Lib. 2. contra Brent folio 83. sequent that all youre companions be not hable to conuince so muche as one pope emongest so manie as haue bene to be an heretike But let that be as doubtefull as this is moste certeine that there was neuer yeat anye pope that gaue in any matter of faithe an hereticall sentence And therfore you are much to blame to conceiue of Goddes prouidence for his churche any such dispaire not being hable for all the time past to shewe so muche as one example of that whiche you captiously demaunde VVhat if
his election be vncerteine or vnlaufull Must he yeat Nowell fol. 115. a. 2 be the moste certeine and onely iudge If the election be not lauful it giueth to the elected person Dorman no right VVhat if we haue a shee pope suche as was pope Ioane otherwise Nowell Iohn the eight What iff that be a lye and to be founde in no storye Dorman of worthy credite Iff suche a chaunce should yeat happen then were there no pope but for the time the See vacant VVhat if the popes successours doe disanull their praedecessours Nowell popes decrees c In matters perteining to thinges indifferent it maye so Dorman chaunce time and place so requiring but in faithe and doctrine deliuered to the whole church that any such chaunge or alteration hath happened you are not able to shewe nor euer shall and therfore you might haue kepte this what if with the rest in youre purse Thus are these doubtes of youres answered M. Nowell and so shall I trust the other great manie mo that you threaten me withall which you loked for belike at the writing hereof to come shortly from Franckeforde marte The pope is not iudge in his owne cause The cause is A. 19. gods and the churches So I tolde yow before Yow make muche a doe to proue that the scriptures are the waye of truthe iudgementes yea and iudgementes off truthe whiche no man denieth For it hathe bene allwaies graunted vnto yow that the scriptures conteine all truthe in them sufficient to confirme all true doctrine and to ouerthrowe the contrarie when by the voice of the churche they are interpreted and made manifest When we harcken to the popes interpretation of scripture we acknowledge and so ought all true catholikes that we heare the holy gost speaking by his mouthe in which case we saie that the credite whiche we giue to his sentence is not giuen to him as he is a man but to gods worde whereby we are taught that the thing whiche mannes nature coulde not obteine Christe God and man obteined for Peter the first pope of Rome Lucae 22. that is that his faithe shoulde not faile and so consequently for all that shoulde after him succede in the gouernement of the churche And so is youre texte answered God is true but euerie man is a lier Or elles we coulde not be assured of that which the prophetes and Apostles teache vs. Of the title heade of the churche of England giuen to oure late souereigne Kinge Henry the 8. The 31. Chapter I ASKED here by occasion of that foolishe reason of fo 116. a. 1. your Apologie Christ is heade of the church Ergo it hath or nedeth no other how it happened then that youre companions gaue to kinge Henry the 8. the title of heade of the churche of Englande and yow youre selues to oure moste gratiouse lady his daughter the same also in effecte To this yow saie If it will please yow to resorte to the recordes of the 22. and 24. Nowell 1. b. 7. yeares of King Henry the 8. there shall yow finde who they were that first offred this title to the saide Kinge there shall yowe finde that all Abbottes and other religiouse all the bishoppes Deanes Archedeacons and cleargie of both the houses of the conuocation then liuing gaue him that title To the latter question of the Quenes maiestie to that yowe will shortly answere yowe saie but presently yow doe not When yow haue ransacked all the recordes and saide all Dorman that yow can to make the Catholikes oure forefathers partakers withe yow of this facte yeat is this moste surelie recorded in all mennes remembraunce that all Catholikes ioyned not with yow and those that did were folowers and no leaders consented to that title which was required and offred it not of their owne motion The first auctors that put that wicked deuise in to the kinges moste noble heade were not the catholikes but heretikes and the scholers of Luther suche as were Cromwell Cranmere and other I speake not this notwithstanding to excuse them who confesse their owne faultes and are moste sorie and penitent therefore This was a case wherein we maie saie withe oure forefathers peccauimus iniusté egimus iniquitatem fecimus We haue sinned we haue done vniustly we haue committed iniquitie But what is all this to the purpose What if the catholikes did amisse withe yow as they did how can yowe answere this standing in youre wicked opinion still that a particuler church maie haue one heade gouernour vnder Christe in earthe and the whole maie not To that yow saie I truste the reason is not to seeke in the good readers memorie Nowell fo 117. a. 22. seing it hathe bene so ofte declared before yet will I answere M. Dormans question by an other question Yow burden verie sore the readers memorie to remembre Dorman that which hetherto yowe neuer vttred Yow are not wont to be so daungerouse I reporte me to the reader to repeate one thing diuerse times but there was good cause that yow shoulde here doe as yow did to wit because yow are not hable standing in strength the argument of youre Apologie to giue anie reason why the churche of one particuler realme hauing two prouinces two archebishoppes and vndre them aboue 20. bishoppes whereof Christe is as muche the heade as of the whole churche shoulde more haue an other heade beside Christ ouer all these particuler heades then all the particuler heades of Christes vniuersall churche shoulde haue an other heade beside Christe ouer them Yeat I knowe yowe meane that reason of youres whiche being so foolishe so wicked and blasphemouse that one man is not hable to rule and gouerne vndre Christe the whole churche alone yow haue so often repeated hauing no other shift of descant that euen verie shame compelleth yow now at the last to wrappe and inuolue it in silence As for the answere that yowe make by a question VVhy one kingdome maye haue in earth vnder God one head and the whole world can not to that I saie that it is a false proposition that the whole worlde can not haue one onlye head in earth vndre God often in this youre Reproufe stoutely affirmed but neuer as yeat proued To this answere I ioyne also the seconde that the questions be not like But then you saye If M. Dorman saye the questions be not like I aske with what Nowell b. 1. face he can so saye seing that in the beginning of this his treatie he brought the example of ciuile gouernement in the whiche euery kingdome hath his king euerie countrie citie and companie haue their seuerall gouernours c. to proue that the church ought likewise to haue one head I acknowledge this example and dare further make Dorman you M. Nowell youre selfe the iudge whether these questions of youres and mine be lyke I compare one kingdome to the whole church which is also