as forgivenesse of sinnes is declared and pronounced by preaching to them that doe truly repent and beleeve in Christ so verily doth God of his free mercy forgive them their sinnes for Christ his sake and that as verily as the wrath and judgements of God are threatned to come on them that will not repent and beleeve in Christ so verily the wrath and judgements of God shall come upon them Gent. Goe on I pray you as you have begunne to shew the new orders Min. Another new order is that none at their Table shall talke of the holy Sccriptures nor of divine matters and that Churchwardens shall present such as at their Table shall talke of the holy Scriptures or of divine matters Wren Chap. 4. Art 31. Gent. Out upon t this is a most devillish order God Almighty deliver us from Lord Bishops this order doth make my heart to rise against them Min. It is indeed a most devillish order and sheweth plainly that if some of them might have their wills they would forbid men to read the holy Scriptures at home in their houses as in Churches they forbid the Genealogie of Christ the Booke of Canticles both the Bookes of Kings save the eight first Chapters of the first Booke of Kings and of Chronicles and the Booke of Revelation save some few pieces that are appointed to be read for Epistles after the Popish manner Gent. Why will they not suffer the Genealogie of Christ to be read to the people Min. They have no warrant for it from God but from the Pope who saith that ignorance is the mother of devotion therefore the Genealogy of Christ is forbidden to be read of purpose to keep the people in blindnesse not able to see the truth of God in fulfilling his promise to Abraham and to David that Christ should come of them and of their seede nor to see that Christ came not onely of Abraham and of David who were Jewes but also of Rahab and of Ruth who were Gentiles and that therefore Christ is not a Saviour of the Jewes onely but also of us Gentiles Gent. Why is the Booke of Canticles forbid to be read Min. It is also forbid of purpose to keepe the people in blindnesse not able to see the ardent love and affection of Christ towards them least thereby they should be stirred up to love Christ and to be zealous of his glory and to abhorre the Pope and his Antichristian Religion Gent. Why are the Books of Kings and of Chronicles forbid Min. Because they doe shew that godly Kings did ever love Gods true Prophets and did hearken unto them and were zealous in maintaining the true Religion and in suppressing Idolatry Gein Why is the Booke of Revelation forbid Min. Because it sheweth that Antichrist shall be destroyed and that Rome shall be set on fire and ruinated for ever and that all that doe live and die in the Romish Religion trusting to the Popes pardons and their owne merits shall drinke of the wine of the wrath of God and be cast into the lake that burneth with fire and brimstone Gent. I doe wonder that the godly Bishops who in King Edward the sixt his time did make the Service Booke that they being godly and so zealous of Gods glory as they did lay downe their lives for the truth in Queene Maries dayes that they did so pester the Book with such horrible blasphemies lying fables and popish errours Min. Wee are much bound to praise God for them and to judge charitably of them because they were but newly crept out of the pit of darknesse the Church of Rome and for want of a better were glad to take the Masse-booke for their patterne They were truly zealous of Gods glory according to the measue of knowledge that God did give unto them and did suffer martyrdome in Queene Maries time Gent. Wherefore did they suffer Min. They suffered for denying the Popes supremacy and for denying the bread and wine in the Lords Supper to be the body and blood of Christ Gent. I doe also wonder much more at our Bishops many of them being great learned men that they should suspend imprison and deprive so many godly Ministers for refusing to subscribe to the Service Booke Min. It is a signe that the true feare of God is not in them for if it were they would not dare to doe as they have done Gent. Bishops have beene ever since the Apostles time have they not Min. The name Bâ—shop was a common name given by the Apostles to every Preacher of the Gospell 1 Tim. 1.3 Tit. 1.7 From the Apostles time to the yeare of our Lord 334. there were in Rome which is now the seat of Antichrist thirty-three godly Preachers commonly called Bishops who suffered Martyrdome for the truth under the Heathen Emperours onely one of them did flee and hide himselfe in the Hill Soracte till the time of Constantine the first Christian Emperour and then returned to Rome and was the first Roman Bishop that escaped Martyrdome and had a great living bestowed upon him by Constantine So also had diverse other Bishops whereupon many of them living in wealth did in short time after the death of Constantine grow idle and proud especially one of them on whom Constantine had bestowed great revenues which made him so proud and stout as he did overtop all the other Bishops not onely in Rome but also throughout the whole Empire and did alter chop and change and adde his owne devises to the publick worship and service of God and did make Canons for the establishing and putting of his devises in practice and through the power of Satan by false doctrines signes and lying wonders did seduce the Christian Emperours that succeeded Constantine and drew them to acknowledge him the head of the Church and vicar of Christ which made him so proud and potent as he did subdue and bring under the Emperours and tooke upon him to excommunicate diverse of them and to curse them with bell booke and candle Henricus the Emperour being excommunicated came in submissive manner to be absolved and in the cold winter in frost and snow did waite at the Bishops gate with his wife and childe barefoot and bareleg three dayes and three nights before he could have audience Fredericke the Emperour was made to hold his stirrop and to lie downe on the ground for him to tread on his necke and at length the Bishop of Rome came to be the great red Dragon Rev. 12.3 and with his long taile of false doctrine flattery promises and preferments did draw the third part of the starres of heaven that is so many of the other Bishops as were not sound in heart and did cast them to the earth that is drew them to be earthly minded like himselfe and to give over studying sound divinitie and to joyne with him in studying how to supplant the Christian Religion Gent. From this that you have said I doe gather that they whom
day the twelfth Chapter from the seventh verse to the thirteenth is appointed to be read for an Epistle it being no Epistle but a prophecie of a battell fought in heaven betweene Michaell and his Angells and the Dragon and his Angels and of the victory that Michaell and his Angels had over the Dragon and his Angels and of the casting of the Dragon and his Angels out of Heaven Gent. What is meant by Heaven Min. By heaven is meant not the highest heaven but the Church of Christ militant here on earth Gent. What is meant by Michaell and his Angels Min. By Michaell and his Angells are meant Christ and his true followers especially the faithfull Preachers of the Gospell Gent. What is meant by the Dragon and his Angels Min. By the Dragon and his Angels are meant the Devill and the Heathen persecuting Emperours and the Popes Gent. What is meant by the battell Min. By the battell is meant persecutions raised by the Heathen persecuting Emperours and the Popes and popish Princes against the Christian Religion and the professors thereof Gent. What is meant by the victory that Michael and his Angells had over the Dragon and his Angels Min. By the victory is meant the victories that Christ gave to Constantine the Christian Emperour and that he hath doth and daily will give to Christian Princes fighting his battell against Antichrist and his partakers and to the faithfull Preachers against false Teachers Gent. What is meant by the casting of the Dragon and his Angells out of heaven Min. Thereby is meant the utter confusion and overthrow of Antichrist by the spirit of Christs mouth that is by the preaching of the Gospell so as he shall be deprived of all dignitie and shall have no place in heaven that is in the Church of God to domineere any more as thankes be to God the Archbishop of Canterbury is deprived of all dignity and shall never have place againe in heaven I meane in the Church of God to domineere as he hath done Gent. Why is this Prophecy appointed to be read on Michaelmas day Min. It is appointed to be read on Michaelmasse day of purpose to pervert the meaning of our Saviour Christ by misse-applying to Michaell and all Angels in the highest Heaven the victory that Christ hath and daily doth and will every day more and more give to true Christians that doe follow him fighting his battell against Antichrist Gent. I doe heare many finde fault with new orders that the Bishops have made I pray you tell me what those orders are Min. They have made an order that the Communion Table shall be turned to an Altar as Pope Sixtus did to usher in Popery about the yeare of our Lord 264. and that Churchwardens shall present their Minister if he doe not admonish the people to resort to him and open their griefe of conscience that they may receive the benefit of absolution as appeareth by Bishop Wren his Booke of Articles Chap. 4. Art 22. and that no prayer shall be made in the Church for sick persons but according to the order prescribed in the Service Booke Bishop Wren did binde the Churchwardens of his Diocesse by an Oath to present their Minister if he did use any other forme of prayer Gent. What forme of prayer doth the service Booke prescribe for sick persons Min. It prescribeth no forme to be used in the Church Gent. What then Min. The Minister must goe home to their houses and salute them as the Masse-Priest doth saying Peace be in this house and to all that dwell in it and when he is come where the sicke person is he must kneele and reade three or foure lines of the Letany and Lord have mercy upon us and the Lords Prayer till he comes to the last Petition and hath read halfe of it Lead us not into temptation the other halfe but deliver us from evill he must leave as the Masse Priest doth for the Clark to reade and then as soone as the Clark hath read it the Minister must as the Masse-Priest doth skip over the conclusion For thine is the Kingdome power and glory for ever and in stead thereof he and the Clark must read five versicles of a line or halfe a line long and a short prayer and an exhortation and the Creed and then absolve the sick person from all his sinnes in the Name of the Father Sonne and holy Ghost and begins the absolution with an untruth saying that Christ hath left power to his Church to absolve all sinners that doe truly repent and beleeve in him The truth is that Christ hath not given power to his Church to forgive sinnes and that there is no Church that doth take upon it to forgive sinnes but the Synagogue of Sathan the Church of Rome and so many of the Lord Bishops and of the Clergie of England as are Popish whose errour is grounded upon their misse-taking of the words of our Saviour Christ to Peter I will give thee the keyes of the kingdome of heaven and whatsoever thou shalt binde on earth shall be bound in heaven whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven Gent. What is meant by the kingdome of heaven Min. By the kingdome of heaven is meant the Church of Christ on earth where Christ doth rule and raigne by his word and holy Spirit in the hearts and consciences of the Elect and is commonly called the kingdome of grace Gent. What is meant by the keyes of the kingdome Min. By the keyes of the kingdome are meant the grace and power that Christ gave to Peter and the rest of the Apostles and their successors to preach the Gospell Gent. It is written Luke 11.52 that Christ did reprove the Interpreters of the Law because they did take away the key of knowledge from the people what is meant by the key of knowledge Min. By the key of knowledge is meant the opening and shewing the true sense and meaning of the Scriptures whereby the people are brought to the knowledge of God and of him whom he hath sent Jesus Christ Gent. It is written Mat. 23.13 that the Scribes and Pharisees did shut up the kingdome of heaven against men how did they lock and shut it up Min. They did lock and shut the people out of heaven by their unfaithfulnesse and idlenesse in opening and shewing the true sense and meaning of the Scriptures and by their false expounding and interpreting of the Scriptures Gent. Christ said to Peter Whatsoever thou shalt binde on earth shall be bound in heaven What is meant by loosing and binding on earth and in heaven Min. By loosing and binding on earth and in heaven is meant the authoritie and power that Christ gave to Peter and to the rest of the Apostles and to every faithfull Preacher not to forgive sinnes but to declare and pronounce forgivenesse of sinnes to all that by their preaching shall be brought to true faith and repentance and that as verily
that they are Idolaters because they kneele and doe not beleeve the reall presence as they doe Gent. Who was the first that brought in kneeling Min. Pope Honorius about the yeare of our Lord 1220. after that the errour of Transubstantiation was hatcht at the Councell of Lateran Gent. I have read in Gods word that the Apostles did not kneele when Christ himselfe delivered the bread unto them I have read also in the booke of Martyrs that the ancient Councells in the Primitive Church did make Canons against kneeling lest it should prove an occasion of Idolatry ought not wee to conforme our selves to our Saviour Christ and his Apostles and to the Christians of the Primitive Church rather then to the Devils Vicar generall the Pope Min. Yes verily for it is grosse hypocrisie in us to make a shew as though we were more godly and zealous then the Apostles and Christians of the Primitive Church Gent. What other errour doe you finde to be in the Service booke Min. The interrupting of the Minister by the Clarke and the whole Congregation is a foule errour and such an errour and confusion as doth much offend God and that therefore many are unwilling to come into the Church till the Service be all read Gent. How doe they interrupt the Minister Min. By rehearsing his words with a lowd voice and by taking words out of his mouth and by mingling their prayers with his The Minister when he prayeth is the mouth of the people speaking to God for them therefore they ought to be silent till he hath done speaking and then to say Amen 1 Cor. 14.16 and not to interrupt him by rehearsing every word after him as in the Confession of sinne when the Minister saith Almightie and most mercifull Father we have erred and strayed out of thy wayes like lost sheepe and in the Letany when he saith O God the Father of heaven have mercy upon us miserable sinners the Minister must stop and be silent till the Clarke and people have with a lowd voice rehearsed every word after him in which time it is impossible for the Minister to keepe idle and by-thoughts from comming into his minde Also when he prayeth for the King saying Lord save the King they interrupt him by mingling their prayer with his saying And mercifully heare us when we call upon thee The Minister being interrupted and put out in praying for the King doth pray for Ministers saying Indue thy Ministers with righteousnesse they doe then also interrupt him by mingling their prayer with his saying And make thy chosen people joyfull Throughout the whole Letany they do interrupt him by mingling their prayers with his They doe also without any warrant from God but from Pope Hormisda interrupt the Minister when he readeth the Psalmes by taking every other verse out of his mouth to reade it for him with a loud hackering and confused noise especially in Countrey Churches where the people cannot reade well The Minister when he readeth or preacheth Gods word is the mouth of God speaking to the people therefore they ought to be silent and to hearken with reverence When they reade the eighteenth nineteenth and twentieth verses of the fiftie Psalme they are likened by some to women scoulding and accusing one another The Clarke and people doe beginne to scould with and to accuse the Minister saying When thou sawest a theefe thou consentedst unto him and hast been partaker with adulterers then the Priest accuseth the Clarke saying Thou hast let thy tongue speake wickednesse and with thy tongue thou hast set forth deceit then the Clarke and people doe set upon the Minister againe and doe accuse him saying Thou sittest and speakest against thy brother yea thou hast slaundered thine owne Mothers sonne Gent. I remember that in the Churching of women the Minister is called Priest tell me I pray you is that name a fit name for a Minister and Preacher of the Gospell Min. No verily For we reade in Gods Word of no more orders of Priests but of two the order of Aaron and the order of Melchisedech Of the order of Aaron were the Leviticall Priests whose office was to offer Sacrifices which together with the Sacrifices was abolished in Christ his death Of the order of Melchisedech was Christ onely and shall remaine Priest for ever A third order of Priests is to be found no where but in the Masse-booke and in our Service-booke The name Priest belongeth to every Christian man and woman as well as to the Minister according as it is written Revel. 1.6 that Christ hath made us Kings and Priests unto God the meaning is that Christ hath made all the Elect men and women Priests to offer the Sacrifices of praise and of thankes unto God Gent. What doe you thinke of the Priest and Clarke when they doe Church a woman Min. I will not tell what I thinke but I will tell you what some doe say Gent. What doe they say Min. They say that the Priest is like a witch Gent. Why doe they say that the Priest is like to a witch Min. Because he doth as a witch doth when she saith the Lords Prayer Gent. What doth a witch when shee saith the Lords Prayer Min. She leaves out these words but deliver us from evill and so doth the Priest when hee doth church a woman Gent. Why will not a Witch say these words Min. Because the devill will not let her till shee hath bewitched so many as he would have her For by the evill that is praid against in that petition is meant the devill and the sinne whereunto he tempteth therefore the devill will not have her to say these words because when shee saith them shee prayeth that God will deliver her from him and the witcherie whereto he tempteth her The Priest doth also skip over the conclusion of the Lords Prayer for thine is the Kingdome power and glory and therein also they say that hee is like to a witch when she doth say her Creede for when she saith the second Article And in Iesus Christ his onely sonne shee skips over these words our Lord and so doth the Priest slip over the conclusion of the Lords Prayer Gent. Saint Luke leaves it out therefore the Priest may leave them out Luke 11.4 Min. It followeth not that therefore the Minister may leave them out for Saint Luke did not write any thing of himselfe but what the holy Ghost would have him to write Gent. Why would not the Holy Ghost have him to write them Min. Because it was sufficient that Saint Matthew had writ them Mat. 6.13 Gent. Some doe thinke because Saint Marke and Saint Iohn doe make no mention of the Lords Prayer that therefore the Minister may omit the reading of it and that because the Evangelists and the Apostles did not use to say it as a prayer therefore none neither Minister nor People ought to use it as a prayer Min. The truth is that our Saviour Christ did