darke but cleare and euident that all haue euer had or might haue had if they had would Christ aswell as the Law giuen vnto them Ereu. Now indeed these thinges seeme to be very true but I must intreat you to make plaine vnto me that which Paul hath writteÌ„ to the Romans concerning Election that there remain no scruple nor doubt in my minde that disputation of Paul troubleth many by reason it is handled so darkly surely I am of opinion that that place is one of those whereof Peter wrote that there were certaine darke thinges in Pauls Epistles â— Pet. 3. which the vnlearned weake doe wrest to their owne destruction as they doe also other places of Scriptures Odeg. Surely you haue good reason so to thinke now therefore let th'Apostle Peter shewe who those are that wrest the Scriptures of them or vs We say with Peter that the long suffring of God is saluation in that God would haue no man perish but would haue all come to repentance and this is that saith Peter vers 15. c. which our beloued brother Paul in all his Epistles speaketh of among the which some thinges are hard to be vnderstood which some peruert to their destruction They say God hath reprobated some and the greatest number and that before they were borne had done euill for whome there was neuer meanes of saluation because God would haue them perish for yâ— was his good pleasure Now these wordes of Peter as they iudge our aduersaries to be peruerters of the Scriptures so may they satisfie euery Godly minded man that Pauls meaning was not contrary to Peters they writing both by one Spirit nay then Pauls owne meaning was else where in the same Epistle * R that the long suffering of God was saluation euen to those that hardened their own hearts and heaped vp wrath against the day of wrath This therefore may be an entrance but let vs come to the words of Paul Rom. 9. In this 9th Chapter and so in most of this Epistle the maine subiect that the Apostle Paul handleth is That not the Law A short exposâ—on RoÌ„ â— but the Gospell is the Power of GOD to saluation not to him that is a Iew outward or that hath Circumcision of the Flesh or is an obseruer of the Law which was all the Iewes had to boast of and which they did boast of * Ioh. 8.33.39 9.28.29 Cap. 4.1.2 Cap. 2.28 c. Cap. 4.12.13.14.16 for Abraham himselfe found nothing concerning the Flesh neither was he iustified by workes but saluation appertaineth to him that is a Iew within that hath Circumcision of the heart that is of the Faith of Abraham whether he be Iew or Gentile in the Flesh this I say is the whole drift of the Apostle as in the whole so in this 9. Chap. In the 1.2.3.4.5 Vers th'Apostle sheweth his vpright vnfained desire of the saluation of the Isralites according to the flesh who were his fleshly brethreÌ„ who had all those Oracles of GOD coÌ„mitted to them of whom were the Fathers and of whom concerning the Flesh CHRIST came GOD ouer all blessed for euer Amen Yet notwithstanding his desire and all these their priuiledges Vers 6.7 the worde of God cannot be made voyde which saith All are not Israell that are of Israell neither are they all Children because they are the seede of Abraham but in Isaac shall thy seede be called which Paul expoundeth Vers 8. That is they which are the children of the Flesh are not the children of GOD or not those that shall be saued but the Children of the promise are counted for the seed So that thus farre there is no difficulty but that the Apostle plainely meaneth in all these Verses Iohn 8.33.39 Ioh. 9.28.29 that not all the children of Abrahams flesh who so much boasted of their being Abrahams seed and of being Moses Disciples in the obseruation of the Law were therefore in the estate of saluation and this he desireth to acquaint the Iewes with that they might cast off their reioycing in their Fleshly discent and seeke true reioycing in another way Th' Apostle hauing propounded this as an infallible truth hee goeth about to proue it by the Scriptures First alledging the promise made that Sara shall haue a Sonne * Gen. 18.10 which Abraham belieued not considering his own and Sara's body which were dead neither did he doubt of the promise of God through vnbeliefe but was strengthned in the Faith * RoÌ„ 4.18 c. and it was imputed to him for righteousnes so that this promised Sonne of Sara was borne not after Flesh but after the Faith which is most largely declared in Gal. 4.22 where is declared that Abraham had two Sonnes one by the seruant Hagar namely Ishmaell who was borne after the Flesh one by the free-woman Sara namely Isaac who was borne by Promise and so by Faith by the which saith th'Apostle another thing is meant these two Mothers are the two Testaments in type the two Children are the types of the children of the two Testaments the Childe of the Flesh Ishmaell sonne of Hagar typed out the fleshly Isralites which were in bondage vnder the rudiments of the Law the Childe of the Promise Isaac sonne of Sara typed out the Children of the Faith of Abraham and as the childe of the Flesh persecuted the childe of the Faith by his mockings for which cause he must be put out and must not be heyre with Isaac so saith th'Apostle do all that seeke acceptance with God through the Flesh persecute them that seeke it by the Promise through Faith and therefore all the children of the Flesh of Abraham that haue no other priuiledge to iustification must be put out and shall not be heyre with the children of the Promise This is so plaine in Gal. 4. that he that readeth the Scripture with an indifferent heart voyde of malice cannot be able to contradict being also confirmed in the 3. Cap. vers 16. where the Apostle treating of the promise of Saluation saith Now to Abraham and his seede were the Promises made hee saith not and to the seeds as speaking of many but and to thy seed as of one which is CHRIST which being well obserued that Abraham had two Sonnes or seeds by two Women as before Gal. 4. and that the Promise of saluation is made but vnto the one seed * Gal. 3.16 Vers 29. Vers â— 9 euen they that are CHRISTS that are of the Faith of Abraham and so after the manner of Isaac * Gal. 4.28 the sonne of Sara and that this Promise is not made vnto both the seeds namely vnto the Children after the Flesh of Abraham for they are not the children of God Rom. 9.8 but they must be put out and must not be heyre with th' other * Gal. 4.30 This is this sure word of Promise Sara shall haue a Son thus applyed by the Apostle
breaketh God promise with him but still abideth faithfull For the second being from Rom. 11. let vs see what th'Apostle speaketh of vpon the which he concludeth with these wordes â—e sheweth that the Iewes were broken off from the prom ses of the Gospell which was fiâ—st offered vnto them because they would not seeke it by Faith in CHRIST but sought it by the work s of the Law and the Gentiles were ingrafted into the same promises in that they sought it onely by Faith yet teacheth the Gentiles that although they stood by Faith they should not be high minded but feare and continue in Gods bountie for if for vnbelief the natuâ—aâ— branches the Iewes were broken off they shoul also be cut off if they fell to vnbeliefe also for the bringing in of the Iâ—wes he writeth that they alâ—o if they abide not still in vnbeliefe shall be grafted in againe this is the somâ—e and of this the guifts and callings of God â—re without repentance For God hath iustly shut vp all in vnbeliefe that he might haue mercy on all onely by that one way which he hatâ— appointed for there is but one entrance vnto the Father by one Spirit for both Iewes and Gentiles Ephe. 2.18 So that God will not rep nt neit er can he of sauing all pers ns at all times in all places that seeke saluatioâ— by Faith in CHRIST and conâ—iâ—ue therein otherwise God is said to repent in many Scâ—iâ— neuer concerning the condition of Faith and continuance vnto the which he hath alwaies respect but concerning the pe son which casteth away the same cond tion Therefore Gods loue is stable without any shadow of turning to righteousnes by Faith in whom soeuer it is but if any p son in whom righteousnes is forsake righteousnes then Gods promise is changed to that person and he repenteth of the good th t he promised him as these Scriptures reach 1 Sam. 2 30. and 1. Sam. 15.11 Ier. 18.8.10 and many others Ereu. 1. Ioh. 2.18 What say you to that of Iohn They went out from vs but they were not of vs for if they had beene of vs they would haue continued with vs c. Hence they conclude that what person goeth from the Church and trueth were neuer truly of it Odeg. The mistery of this well discouered would make an end of all the controuersies that depend of Predestination for as they affirme that God hath predestinated some persons to saluation and some persons to damnation without any condition so also they affirme that these persons the Elect making neuer so great shew of wickednesse and walking in the wayes of Beliall are still Elect and can by no meanes fall out of their Election and the other persons hauing neuer so many testimonies of Godlines and walking in the Church of Christ yet can neuer but be reprobates and if euer they fall away from the Church or truth they conclude they were neuer truly of it for which cause they peruert this Scripture and others therefore I will something shew their deceiuings All mens estates are one by creation they are one by transgression all haue sinned and are dead in sinnes and as all are shut vp in vnbeliefe so God hath mercy on all there is no respect of persons with God so often repeated in the Scriptures God sent his Sonne to saue all and the Sonne soweth the seede of saluation vpon all some receiue the good seede and they are called children of the kingdome Math. 13. others receiue it not because it crosseth their fleshly hearts in pleasure and the like but in stead thereof receiue the tares the false doctrines of the enemie and therefore are called the children of the wicked now it is most plaiâ—e the persons of them who receiue the good seede were no better then the other neither were the persons of them who receiue the tares any worse then the other the former persons receiue the good seede because the goodnesse of the sower first sowed it and therefore hath cause to praise him onely for what he hath the latter persons refuse the good seede offered them as freely as the other and receiue the tares and therefore hath onely cause to blame themselues The former are children of the kingdome by reason of the quality wrought in them by the goodnesse of the sower Iesus Christ The latter are children of the wicked by reason of that qualitie wrought in them by the enemie the deuill and themselues so that their difference is not in respect of their persons but of their qualities for God loueth all persons they being his generation Act. 17.27 c. but hateth wicked qualities in the persons where they are and also because of the wicked quality hee hateth the persons as weapons or instruments of those wicked qualities so that the most holy God hateth nothing but wickednesse I desire this description of person and quality may be well obserued for it is the most blessed trueth of God and w ll teach vs truly in the expâ—sition of all Scriptures to attribute righteousnesse to God in all his iudgements and wickednesse to wicked men and to the deuill their Father Now for the wordes the Apostle sheweth vers 19. that as they had heard that Antichrist should come euen then there were many Antichrists and vers 21. he saith I haue not written vnto you because you know not the trueth but because yee know it and that no lye is of the trueth who is a lyar but hee that denieth â—hâ—t Iesus is Christ the same is the Antichrist c. and chap. 4.1 he exhorteth them to try the Spirits and teacheth that euery Spirit which confesseth not Iesus Christ is come c. is the Spirit of Antichrist c. Now these lying Spirits these Antichrists in these persons who once had the Spirit of trueth in them these saith hee went out from vs as elsewhere Paul saith Act. 22.30 from among your selues shall men arise speaking peruerse things c. for there must bee heresies euen among you c. But saith the Apostle 1 Cor. 11.19 They were neuer of vs for vers 21. no lye is of the truth for if these lying Spirits had beene of the tâ—ueth they would haue continued with it but they are not of it As for example the Spâ—rit oâ— Hymeneus together with his person was in Spirituall fellowship with Paul and other Saints so long as he retained faith and a good conscience * 1 Tim. 8.19.20 but hauing put away the Spirit of trueth and receiued a lying Spirit * 2 Tim. 1.17.18 he went out from them in that his Spirit for or because it was neuer of them euen as Iohn saith these Antichrists or lying Spirit did so that his person was of the truth so long as the Spirit of trueth remained in him but when he receiued the lying Spirit which was neuer of the trueth it caried his person from the trueth
14 c. are freed from the law and so sinne is dead in them but when the commandement comes * Rom. 7.8 cursed is euery one that continueth not in all things that are written in the booke of the law to doe them * Gal. 3.10 then they die in sinnes and trespasses * Ephe. 2.1 Verse 8. and must be saued onely by Grace in Christ through faith not of themselues it is the gift of God Againe none shall appeare before Christ to receiue iudgement but those that haue done workes either good or euill and that in the flesh * 2. Cor. 5.10 Reuel 20.12.13 Infants dying haue done neither good nor euill in the flesh Therefore Infants shall receiue no iudgement Ereu. You haue very satisfactorily answered me in this one thing more that much troubleth all men which is Psal 51 5. In which if you giue a plaine answere all else they can obiect is nothing worth Odeg. The words are Behold I was borne in iniquity and in sinne hath my mother conceiued me The question now is whether hee confesseth his owne estate or his mothers If his owne then thus he confesseth to God and desireth him in mercy to consider and behold him whereof he was made as Psal 103 14. of dust weake flesh vnable to resist the Tempter when the law came vnto h m through which weakenesse hee was thus ouercome in these horrible sinnes and thus weake flesh is called sinfull fl sh in which Christ came * Rom. 8.1 in that it is impossible for flesh to keepe the law when it comes Christ is said to be made sinne * 2. Cor. 5.21 not that he was a sinner no more Dauid confessing he was conceiued in sinne doth proue that by conception and birth hee was a transgressour If his mothers then thus either his mother Heuahs or else his mother that bare him and brought him forth whether it mattereth not much the chiefe thing being what this sinne of his mothers is I say it is that curse or punishment for sinne laid vpon her * Gen. 3.16 where the very words agree with these of Dauids I will greatly encrease thy sorrowes and thy conception in sorrow shalt thou bring forth c. so that Dauid doth not confesse his mother-sinne in this place but the punishment that was laid for sinne vpon the mother of all liuing and so vpon Dauids mother and it is frequent with the holy Ghost in the Scriptures to call punishment for sinne by the name of sinne as Christ bare our sinnes * 1. Pet. 2. â—4 and the wickednesse of the wicked shall be vpon himselfe Ezek. 18. â—0 and they shall beare their iniquities and the like and it is neither Dauids sinne nor his mothers he here confesseth to speake properly but his mothers punishment for the fall and his weakenesse through the fall And Dauid did not sinne in being conceiued and borne the soule is the subiect of sinne as before and as Christ teacheth from the soule or heart commeth wickednesse The body is but the instrument thereof Mat. 15.19 the soule comes from God the matter of the body from the parents the soule is very good comming from God the body hath not sinned till it be infected with the soule by transgressioÌ„ of a law and seeing they affirme that the very matter or substance whereof Dauid was made was sin and that this is it he confess th in this 51. Psal Obserue what wil follow of this their dreame The matter whereof all the sonnes of Adam is made is sinne but Christ one of the sonnes of Adam after the flesh was made of that matter therefore the matter or substance of Christs body was sinne It will not auaile to say he was coÌ„ceiued by the power of the holy Ghost that is true but what tho yet also Mary the virgine conceiued him of her matter or substance and if that be good to say that Dauid was a sinner because he was conceiued of his mothers substance and so borne why is it not also good to say that Christ was a sinner because he was conceiued of his mothers substance whose flesh and blood was no other then Dauids mothers and so borne but if it be wicked to say Christ was a sinner because he was conceiued of his mothers substance as it is so is it no lesse wicked to say Dauid was a sinner because he was conceiued of his mother substance seeing the substance of both the mothers was one the same 1. Cor. 15.39 And though the holy Ghost did wonderfully cause Mary to conceiue without the helpe of man yet did he not alter nor change Maries substance for then would it follow as some wickedly affirme that Christ was not made of the same matter and substance whereof wee be made And it is most apparant that wicked harlot Rome to aduance the high estimation they haue of Mary and because also they had inuented originall sin to be in all Infants which was onely their wicked inuention * Orig. sin dec in Concil Carthag therefore in the Counsell of Trent * Ses 5. cap. 1 de pec orig exempted her from sinne to establish both their wicked opinions therin Thus I trust all that shut not their eies may see the difference of the truth error in this thing be so satisfied in the truth that no turning deuice shall cause them to stumble again But if any notwithstanding what is said will not yet beleeue the truth in this I require them to shew by the Scriptures better reasons then they haue yet obiected to proue Infants to be in sin vnto condemnation in hell and when they haue done that let them also shew how they that haue sinned and are vnder condemnation of hell can be reconciled to God but onely by faith in Christ Iesus And if they haue sinned and can be reconciled to God by no other meanes but by repentance and faith in Christ Iesus then are they all left vnder condemnation not for any law that they haue broken for they could not breake the law before they were in forme and soule as before but for their Father Adams eating of the forbidden tree and so are damned for their Fathers sinne contrary to all these Scriptures Let not any thinke that this maketh any thing for them that because Infants haue died many times bodily death for the sins of their parents as the old world Sodome Gomorrah Corah c. that therefore they perish with the wicked in hell for of this other vnreasonable creatures as well as Infants haue alwaies had their portions all flesh must dye and death is losse to none but to the wicked for whom is prepared the torments of hell but vnto the godly and innocent death and all the afflictions of this life are not worthy of the glory that shall be shewed If any aske that if Infants be not vnder condemnation what neede they haue of
A DISCRIPTION OF WHAT GOD hath Predestinated Concerning MAN In his CREATION TRANSGRESSION REGENERATION As also an Answere to Iohn Robinson touching Baptisme 1. THES 5.21 Try all thinges keepe that which is good ACT. 17.11 These were more noble men c. which searched the Scriptures dayly whether those thinges were so Printed 1620. The Contents of the Booke 1. Of Predestination 2. Of Election and Reprobation 3. Of Falling away 4. Of Free-will 5. Of The Originall estate of Man 6. Of The beginnings of CHRIST or Foundation 7. And lastly An answ to a little Printed writing of Iohn Robinsons touching Baptisme To euery vnpar◠〈◊〉 Grace and Truth WEE are not ignorant of the great oppositions that are in the world at this day about the most righteous Predestination of GOD and the true consequences thereof and that among the Wise and Learned of which number wee account not our selues neither are accounted of others but are willing to bee accounted of the lower sort Euen of the foolish weake vile dispised and those that are not Yet hauing receiued something of the Lord in this thing and perceiuing that many thousands are ignorant of the difference and are violently carryed rather by tradition then by sound knowledge to detest the Truth and imbrace the error wee among others holde our selues bound to make knowne what wee haue receiued to the end all may weigh it in the ballance of Gods Sanctuary try it by the true touchstone and measure it with the Golden reede It is a thing not carelesly to bee minded but seriously to be considered of and searched into If any will be ignorant and goe on in their blinde zeale according to tradition let them be ignorant and remember that If the Truth be hid it is hid to them that perish * 2 Cor. 4. There can be no hurt by trying our wayes for as true tryall will burne vp the chaffe of falshood so will it refine the way of Truth as Gold tryed in the fire seauen times in which we must take heed Wee presume not aboue what is written * 1 Cor. 4. Neither adde too nor diminish the perfect Law of the Lord contayned in the Scriptures * Reuel 2 18.19 Secret thinges belong to the Lord our God thinges reuealed belong to vs * Deut. â— 29 But some man will say vnto vs what shall wee neede tryall of this thing againe the Counsell of Dort hath sufficiently tryed it and haue passed their sentence to establish Caluins Doctrine and to reject the contrary but to such wee will answer by asking question was not the Counsell of Dort subiect to erre If yea Then is it safe for men to build their Faith vpon their sentence their answer is yea for not onely so they haue Decreed but also that whosoeuer teacheth contrary shall be persecuted Ah heauy case will men teach they are subiect to erre and yet decree Persecution for them that cannot beleeue their Decrees Well yet thus fâ—rre wee are sure they will grant they may erre and whether they haue erred or no let that bee scanned by Gods worde and iudged by euery mans Conscience It is a maine controuersie between the Papists and Protestants whether the Church and Counsels may erre the Papists affirme they cannot and so constraineth all to beleeue as the Church beleeues The Protestants affirme the contrary viz. That there is no Church no Counsell no man but they are subiect to erre and therefore ought to be no further beleeued then euery mans Conscience can iudge them to accord with the meaning of God in the Scriptures which being true as it is most true then why may not the Counsell of Dort haue erred in its sentence in these thinges â—sa 29.14 Math. 11. â—5 26 Ioh. â— 48.49 â— Cor. 1.19 â—6 c. If any say it was Learned wee answer God vsually hidâ— his secrets from thâ— Learned and reuealeth them to Babes And destroyes the wisdome of the wise casts away the vnderstanding of the prudent makes the wisdome of the wise foolishnes If any say the assembly was great wee answer greater Counsels by much euen vniuersall Counsels haue grosely erred who is ignorant of this How did the Counsels of Ephesus Seâ—â—sia Trident Laterenâ— and others erre where the vniuersall Learned of the world were assembled whose numbers and errors were too many to relate but to be short in this thing we may truely conclude with the wordes of Nazianzen who saith* ad proâ— 346 Hee neuer saw any Counsell haue a good end For what is the end of them but cruelty and persecution that when they haue decreed what they thinke good then they procure the Magistrates sword to impose their Decrees vpon mens Consciencs And why any Church should call Counsels to make Decrees in cause of Conscience but Rome it cannot be defended The Counsell at Ierusalem will not warrant them that assembly could not erre who dare say so besides that Mother of whoredomes Rome of whom wee may say with the Prophet Thou hadst an Whores forehead thou wouldst not be ashamed Ier. 3.3 Men are couered with the Spirit of slumber that call Counsels to make Decrees to bee imposed vpon mens Consciences and yet hold that the Counsels may erre And for the Armenians as they are called wee are not truely enformed of their opinions but for their tumultuous courses wee much detest the ground of their and their aduersaries proceeding being that deuillish perswasion that it is lawfull to persecute yea to kill one another for difference in Religion the Lord giue them to see their sinne on both sides Against which opinion and practise that Noble and worthy Prince the King of Bohemia hath written in these wordes And not withstanding the successe of tâ—se latter times wherein sundry opinions haâ—e beene hatched about the subiect of Religion may make one clearely discerne with his eye and as it were touch with his finger that accâ—rding to the veritie of holy Scripture and a Maxime heretofore held and maintayned by the auncient Doctors of the Church that mens Consciences ought in no sort to bee violated vrged or constrayned and whensoeuer men haue attempted any thing by this violent course whether openly or by secret meanes the issue hath beene pernicious and the cause of great and wonderfull innouations in the principallest and mightiest Kingdomes and Countries of all Christendome c. And further his Maiesty saith So that once more wee dâ— protest before God and the whole world that from this time forward wee are firmely resolued not to persecâ—te or molest or suffer to be persecuted or molested any person whosoeuer for matter of Religion no not they which â—rofesse themselues to bee of the Romane Church neither to trouble or disturbe them in the exercise of their Religion So they liue conformably to the Lawes of the States c. Whose wordes and practise the King of Kings grant that the Gouernors of the earth and particularly
our most dread Soueraigne who hath himselfe written much to the same effect may consider of and doe accordingly as blessed bee our God all the Kingdomes that wee know or can heare of practiseth the same except Spaine and England In this writing we haue obserued this order to set down such affirmations as the contrary minded haue written and spoken in these thinges 1. Touching Predestination 2. Of Election 3. Of Falling away 4. Of Free-will 5. Of Originall sinne and lastly Of the entrance into Christ one depending vpon another and so haue answered them from point to point by way of Dialogue There affirmations thou mayst see to be most fearefull one and that a Principall one * Knox in his printed Booke aga an aduersary of Gods Pred as hee calleth him pag. 255. saith Gods Predestination was the originall or first cause of Adams fall yea of all the wickednes that euer hath beene is or shall be committed yea in plaine wordes that God is not onely the principall cause of all thinges but also the very Author appointing all thinges to the one part and to the other by his Counsell and That whatsoeuer the Ethnicks ascribed to Fortune the same wee ought saith he to ascribe to the Prouidence of God which how large a blasphemie it is will appeare to euery tender Conscience Againe they say That God hath Elected the lesser part of Man-kinde euen some particuler persons without any Condition who cannot but bee saued by any meanes And againe That God hath Reprobated the greater part of man-kinde without all cause of desert who cannot but bee Damned by any manner of meanes Christ not dying for them Which Doctrine how it impeacheth not onely the Iustice of God mercy of God in Christ and protestations of God to the contrary in the Scriptures but also the sufficiencie and meritoriousnes of Christs most precious Death and sufferings and laying the imputation of Mans damnation not on his owne sinne and vnbeleefe but on God and Christ shall by this that followeth manifestly appeare The cheife maintayners of this Destination as wee see by experience are the Caluinists or Puritanes as they are called one of their chiefe Prophets further affirming * Knox the said Booke pag 317. with 312. That the wicked are not onely left by Gods suffering but compelled to sinne by power c Wherein you plainely see their opinion not onely that men cannot chuse but doe what wickednes and mischiefe they doe but also they are compelled with the power force and compulsion of Gods Predestination to commit all those wicked crimes for which they are either executed with the Temporall sword or damned with euerlasting torment Consider wee beseech you not the persons of men be they neuer so high neuer so wise neuer so many but mark the opinion it selfe euen in thy Conscience and in the sight of God whether any thing can be more repugnant to the Nature of God or more defacing his Iustice then to say That God punisheth Man with the torments of Hell in euerlasting Fire for doing those thinges which hee himselfe hath Predestinated Ordayned Decreed determined appointed willed and compelled him to doe and that a man cannot chuse but of necessity mâ—st doe by the force and compulsion of his Predestnation Which being true then what is our Life but a meere Destiny all our dooings Gods ordinances and all our Imaginations branches of his Predestination Let no man deceiue you with vaine wordes wherein they would seeme to temper the matter with more reuerent speaking of it as they say seeing they plainly holde these principles and when they see their time speake plainely thereof themselues as you may well perceiue by that which hath already and shal yet more largely in this writing following be rehearsed If it be a truth why should it not plainely be spoken If it bee a truth that Traytors bee Predestinated of God to conspire the destruction of their Princes and Rebels Predestinated of God to rebell against their Soueraignes If we say it be a truth that God hath so Predestinated them and that they must of necessitie and cannot chuse but commit such wickednes why should it not be plainely spoken Except men should be ashamed to speake the Truth But in what Scripture is it written The greatest shew they haue is collected from Rom. 9. from whence they conceiue That God hated Esau and so all wicked men before they were borne and hath Decreed all theâ—r actions which they doe whilest they liue vpon the earth for which cause we haue explained the whole Chap. Shewing that they doe most wofully peruert it For proofe whereof wee haue the Apostle Peters * 2. Pet. 3.15 c. approbation of vs against them who writ after Pauls Epistles that speaketh of these things which we desire may be carefully obserued and then a way most easie will be made for Pauls meaning in all his Epistles concerning this thing That God hateth wicked men we confesse the Scriptures plenteously witnes but wheresoeuer it is said that God hated any there will we manifestly proue that they hated God first and that their wicked euill deseruing went before his hatred RoÌ„ 5.10 2 Chr. 36 15.16 For he is so Gracious and mercifull that he loueth his enâ—mies So slowe to wrath or hatred that hee striueth with them by his Word and Spirit vntill there be no remedy When there is no remedy to reclaime them but that in Iustice his wrath must needs breake forth Yet doth he lament for thâ—â—â— Math. 23.37 in these wordes Jerusalem Ierusalem c. how oft would I haâ—e gathered thy Children c. And Oh that thou hadst knowne the Day of thy visitation but now it is hid from thine eyes Psal 81.13 Vers 15. And Oh that my people had harkened to mee and Israell had walked in my wayes c. And the haters of the Lord should haue bene subiect to him and their time should haue 〈…〉 for euer And many the like Thus haue wee giuen you a taste of that which followeth beseeching you 〈◊〉 and Iudge without partiality and the God of Wisdom giue you wisdome in all thinges Amen Yours ready to doe you any good thâ— seruants of Christ falsâ—y 〈◊〉 Ana-baptists Predestination The Speakers Ereunetes a Searcher Odegos a Guide FRiend Odegos I haue bene of late much troubled about a weightie controuersie which at this day there is much adoe about that among the learned I will propound it vnto you and desire to knowe your iudgement in the thing and how you answer such obiections as are made The thing is Predestination the consequences of it wherein the Caluinists holde First thus they write Propos disputed in the Vniuersity of Geneua Page 25. Predestination is that eternall and immoueable decree of GOD whereby as it pleased his Maiestie he hath decreed all thinges both vniuersally perticularly so doth effect them by the causes created in like sorte
perdition * Heb. 10.38.39 and not to loose that they haue done * 2 Ioh. 8. and to let no man take away their Crowne * Reuel 3.11 and a thousand such to what end are these if they cannot fall into them doth the Lord vse wordes in vaine and concerning the reprobate say they they haue no profit to saluation neither by these nor the whole Scriptures If any answer the whole Scriptures are giuen to keepe both the Elect and reprobate froÌ„ falling into grosse sinnes yet that neither the Elect can be damned by transgressing them nor the reprobate saued by obseruing them how Atheisticall damnable is this opinion for it is the same that the Atheists teach the one that there is no God and that therefore all thinges are written but in pâ—llicie to keepe people in awe th' other that there is no hurt to damnation to the Elect by disobeying thâ— commaunds of this God nor any profit â—o saluation to the reprobate by obeying the commaunds of this God The Lord deliuer all men from such damnable Doctrine Ereu. You hauing spoken that which satisfieth me in proofe of what you holde in this thing now let me in reat you to answere such obiections as they make and first wee will begin with our Sauiours wordes Math 24.24 If it werâ— p ssible they should deceiue the very Elect so that hence thâ—y conclude it is not possible the Elect should perish Odeg. I haue shewed you before who are the Elect of God namely those that receiue and obey the truth IESVS CHRIST and abide in him vnto the Death these I grant cannot perish through being deceiued that this iâ— the meaning of our Sauiour it appeareth for hauing shewed with what signes and lying wonders and in all deceiuablenes of vnâ—ighteousnes the fâ—lse Prophets would come aâ—d deceiue many hee addeth these words â—o that if it were possible they should deceiue the very Elâ—ct Now our controuersie is whether those that are Elect may fall out of it and not whether those that abide in it can perish For in this wee agree but for the former I affirme and haue proued plentifully that many that are in the Election and fauour of God yea in the estate of saluation may fall away and perish And by this very place of our Sauiour this appeareth in Exhorting his Elect Apostles Vers 4. to take hâ—â—d that no man deceiue you also the Elect Ephesians are exhorted â—oâ— to be deceiued with vaine wordes * Ephes 5.6 also the Elect 1. Thâ—s 1.4 are exhorted Let no man deceiue you by any meaneâ— * 2 Thes 2.3 â— All which hand much more sheweth that the Elect may fall from their Elect on if they take not heed But the words are written for the great comfort of those that abide in their Election that they shall be deliuered from those deceiuings wherewith others are deluded to destruction Further many there be which fall from their Election not by being deceiued but willingly forsake the truth against or after their enlightning as these Scriptures shew Heb. 6.4 c Hâ—b 10 26. c. So that many that are Elect may be deceiued and so fall from their Election againe many may fall from their Election willingly not being deceiued but those that abide cannot be deceiued He that doth these thinges shall neuer fall Psal 15.5 But be as mount Sion that cannot be remoued Psal 125.1 he doth not say hee that hath done these thinges but he that doth these things in the present time Ereu. What say you to our Sauiours wordes Ioh. 10.27 c. My sheepe heare my voyce and I know them and they follow mee and I giue vnto them eternall life and they shall neuer perish neither shall any plucke them out of my hand My Father that gaue them me is greater then all and none is able to take them out of my Fathers hand Oâ—eg These wordes of our Sauiour as many other in the holy Scriptures to this same purpose teacheth vnto Ch ists sheepe vnspeakable consolation that so long as they continue his sheep heare his voyce and follow him so long they are so sure and haue such spirituall peace and saâ—ety in Gods acceptance as the whole world can neither giue them nor take from them but if those to whom Christ hath promised these gracious protections doe euil in his sight and will not heaâ—e his voyce then hee will repent of the good that he promised * Ier. 18.10 yea in this case he hath forsaken his house and heritage and hath giuen the dearely beloued of his soule into the hands of her enemies For it cryed out against him therefore hee hated it * Ier. 12.7.8 And the Lord is with his * 2. Chr. 15 â— whilst they are with him but if they forsake him hee will also forsake them For it may come to passe * Mal. 2. that they that were yesterday my people or sheepe of my pasture may rise vp on the other side as against an enemy They that follow CHRIST are his sheepe and those shall neuer perish but those that run from him in not hearing his voyce and following him are not his sheepe and to such this promise belongeth not Ereu. What say you to Ioh. 13.1 These whoÌ„ he loueth he loueth to the end For the guifts calling of God are without repentance RoÌ„ 11.29 Odeg. The first place proueth that while IESVS was in the Flesh among his Disciples which were his owne hee alwayes louing them was desirous to take all occasions to testifie the same vnto them euen vnto the end of his life which is the meaning of the place among other thinges he testified his loue by this action of humilitie to wash their feete and to teach them thereby what they ought to doe one to another Nay I say he loueth his euen without end for euer but still you must obserue our question is not of Gods or Christs loue vnto his for of that there is no controuersie but of the continuance of their loue vnto him For although he loue al men first yet after they must loue him and continue in his loue by keeping his CoÌ„maundements * Ioh. 15.9.10 which if they doe not they are cast out as a withered branch into the fire and burned Vers 6. If wee suffer with him we shall raigne with him If we deny him he will also deny vs. If we forsake our beliefe yet abideth he faithfull he cannot deny himselfe 2. Tim. 2.12 c The meaning of which is that Christ without respect of persons loueth in euery Nation him that feareth him and worketh righteousnes Act. 10.34.35 But if any cast off his feare him God accepteth not â—et hee breaketh not promise with that peâ—son for his promise is to them that feare him which a person that hath cast him away doth not so that Christ loueth alwayes his but he that forsaketh him is not his neither
nor performe the same For although God required of all Abra seed to Circumcise their males which was the performance of their part of the Couenant Gen. 17. Yet hee required no more of the male of 8. dayes old neither could it promise nor performe any more then the Female And God was asmuch the God of the female Infants of Abra concerning whome nothing was required as hee was the God of the male Infants of whom nothing was required onely their Parents required to Circumcise them in obedience to God and to teach them the circumcision of the heart which by that type they were to learne and that the word Seede or Children is not meant Infants but men of vnderstanding I haue shewed formerly in Pag. 136. Further this Couenant Gen. 17. is made with Abraham and his seed not with euery faithfull man and his seed is euery faithfull man AbrahaÌ„ what proofe for that It is well if we bee Abrahams seed let vs be content to haue Abra for our Father whose Children if these men were they would teach their children to seeke saluation and all their priuiledges Spirituall with God by Faith only and not by their Fleshly discent as they doe Thus all may see all these their deuices are as the Potters clay their dawbing will not holde their wall and they shall bee destroyed together if they repent not Ereu. It is obiected that circumcision was a seale of Faith to Abraham * Rom. 4. Odeg. It is said Abraham receiued the signe of circumcisioÌ„ the seale of the righteousnes of the faith which he had when he was vncircumcised that he should be the Father of the faithfull whether circumcised or vncircumcised This place proueth Vers 11. that Abraham receiued circumcision to seale vp his Fatherhood of the faithfull not that he receiued it to seale vp his Faith in the Messiah which he had * Gen. 12 with 17. 24. yeares before he was circumcised but that it was a seale of his Faith in beleeuing God that hee should be the Father of many Nations * Gen. 12 Rom. 4. â— this was imputed to him for righteousnesse * Vers 2â— The intendment of the Apostle in this place being to proue that whereas the Iewes sought righteousnes by beiag Abrahams fleshly childreÌ„ * Ioh. 8.39.53 as these obiecters doe by supposing they are the children of the faithfull successiuely through by the flesh or by workes for hee found nothing thereby * Rom. 4.1 but his iustification was by Faith long before he was circumcised God finding him so faithfull continually would make him the Father of all the faithfull and so he receiued circumcision a seale of his Faith that he should be the Father of the faithfull and therefore taught that all that will be Abrahams Children indeed must not regard to be the Children of the Law or flesh but of his Faith for if Abraham himselfe found nothing by the flesh for iustification what can any fleshly Children finde by the same And besides it is a very farre set thing to say AbrahaÌ„ receiued circumcision a seale of the Faith which he had before therefore all that receiued circumcision it was vnto them a seale of faith consequently Infants may be baptised I haue shewed AbrahaÌ„ receiued circumcision as none receiued it also that faith was required of none to circumcision but Faith is required to baptisme and therfore these be but mens dreames chaffe in stead of wheat All may see they haue nothing to say for Infants baptisme Christs perfect Testament affoording them no tittle of proofe only they goe about to establish the Couenant of the Gospel which is saluation by Christ to euery sinner through Faith vnto the Children of the Law or flesh contrary to the expresse wordes of the holy Ghost For if they that are of the Lawe be heyres Faith is made voide and the promise is made of none effect but it is by Faith that it might come by Grace vnto all the seed of the faith of Abraham * In Rom. â— 14.16 As also see Gal. 3.22 Rom. 9.8 〈◊〉 are they compelled to runne to the old Testament though it and not serue them and f oÌ„ thence to fetch the chiefe corner Stone of their building viz. from circumcision and wholy forsake the newe Testament practise of the Apostles 〈…〉 Moses disciples as if Christ were not 〈…〉 teach them his new Testament but 〈…〉 the new of the olde 〈…〉 of the Law th' 〈…〉 th◠〈◊〉 beheld 〈…〉 and what is the issue of all this truth and experience teacheth a accessiâ—â— of maintayning that harlot and strumpet Rome to be Gods Church and people as that apostate Franâ—◠〈◊〉 and others haue done as indeed it cannot be auoyded for if Infants be to be baptised by the rule of circumcision according to their owne ground their estate is such If they deny Romes estate to be such in their outward standing they baptising Infants from generation to generation as they haue done let them shew when and how they became no people of God nor is Church Ereu. It is sufficient that you haue cleared all obiections proued that the baptising of Infants is not warranted by Gods worde besides all which I haue not long since seene a Booke translated out of Duch and Printed in English proouing that this inuention of Infants baptisme was brought in and Decreed by diuers Emperors Popes and Counsels so that I am euery way satisfied in this onely Iohn Robinson Preacher to the English at Leyden hath Printed halfe a sheet of paper who laboureth to proue that none may baptise but Pastors or Elders of a Church for other Officers to baptise I conceiue not that he meaneth and consequently that you and all your companies in England wanting Pastors are vnbaptised To Iohn Robinson Odeg. In this thing we are iustly called vpon and therefore I shall manifest that any Disciple of CHRIST that hath receiued power and commaundment from God to Preach and conuert though no Pastor may also by the same power commaundment baptise which I will first proue by the Scriptures and then answer this obiections perticularly But first I will lay down a maine foundatioÌ„ which being sufficiently proued the euident truth shall plainly appear and this it is That the members and Churches of Christ are so made both by Faith and Baptisme and not by the one only which being true it will follow that neither the Church members of Rome are members and Church of Christ because Faith is neither required nor performed thereto nor yet any profession of people that seperate from Rome as from no Church of Christ retayning Romes Baptisme and building new Churches without Baptisme That the members and Churches of Christ are so made by Faith and Baptisme euen by both it is proued in Rom. 11.20 c. where th'Apostle sheweth That the Church at Rome the Gentiles were grafted into Christ the head of the body