the dominion of all the worlde it self also to apperteine to hym â–ª whiche neuer yet did any besides hym but the Deuill himself of whom whether the Pope holde it by inheritaunce as his eldest soonne and heire or by ferme as his tenaunte geuerall or as his deputie and Bailiffe errande I knowe not but sure I am that what right so euer he hath therto and by what tenure so euer he holdeth it he holdeth it of the Deuill who chalengeth the same as chief Lorde and hath made offer thereof to suche as would wholie serue hym But GOD I am sure or our Sauiour Christ neuer made any suche offer or promise to any mortall man naie our Sauiour Christe as he hymself refused suche offer made to hym so he specially forbiddeth the affectatioÌ„ of suche worldly dominion to all his Apostles consequentlie by them to all the Cleargie Where as M. Dorman proceadeth saiyng that wee tell Christe that he is of age and able to dooe it hymself and that therefore there is no remedie but he muste needes come doune and geue answere to all our wise demaundes in his owne persone I truste all men doo knowe that M. Dorman did know that he lied leudelie wheÌ„ he did write this For he knoweth right well as shortly hereafter hymself coÌ„fesseth the same that wee thinke it enough that Christe hath once come doune to teache vs and that wee looke for none other answere of Christe then he hath alreadie geuen in his holie Gospell whiche he preached once for all in his corporall presence and confirmed the truthe of the same by visible and corporall miracles and that therefore he speakyng and answeryng vs in his holie woorde to all demaundes necessarie for our saluation needeth not any corporall presence his woorde and Gospell written satisfiyng vs as well as though wee did se hym and heare hym speake with our corporall eyes and eares And maister Dorman and all the aduersaries to the truthe maie bee ashamed to charge vs as not allowyng Christe meanes to woorke his spiritual grace by but vexyng hym by callyng for his corporall presence wheras thei themselues as those that thinke he can dooe nothing excepte he bee corporallie present would turmoile hym euery howre and minute also from place to place yea and would imprison hym also in narrowe and streight roumes passyng little ease in the towre of London manifolde And so thei allowyng hym no meanes to woorke by but that he muste needes come doune in his owne persone dooe as iustlie ioigne in this poincte with Suenkfeldius as thei falslie charge vs therewith whereas wee dooe acknowledge that Christe though corporallie absente by his diuine power is able and dooeth dailie and howerly woorke his manifolde graces in vs by sundrie ordinarie meanes suche as hymself hath appoincted and instituted and that by his moste holie woorde he dooeth teache vs as effectuallie as though he were corporallie presente And by his blessed Sacramentes of Baptisme and of his supper he deriueth as it were his graces vnto vs by the one regeneratyng and reuiuyng vs in hymself who were before vnhappilie borne and deade borne in Adam by the other nourishyng refreshyng our hungrie and thristie soules with the foode of his blessed bodie and bloude as effectuallie as though he were with vs corporally present This dooeth M. Dorman and the aduersaries knowe therfore when M. Dorman saith that we barre Christe of all meanes to woorke by M. Dorman and all the worlde muste also needes knowe that M. DormaÌ„ lieth bothe shamefullie and wittyngly too Now that you vnderstande how M. Dorman hath moste vntruelie charged vs as allies to Suenkfeldius who doo moste abhorre and are moste farre from hym his vile heresies let me sée whether as I haue shewed a verie great likenesse conformitie to be betwene SueÌ„kfeldius the Papistes in this laste poincte of allowyng Christ no meane to woorke by and therefore requiring his corporall presence so I can prooue the like coÌ„formitie betwéen them him likewise in al other pointes by M. Dorman here specified Suenkfeldius emoÌ„gst others holdeth this most abominable heresie That we ought to banishe vtterlie from emongeste vs all Scriptures Dooe not the Papistes themselues forbiddyng the scriptures to be readde of the Laitie kéepyng the scriptures hid in an vnknowen tongue burnyng the scriptures written in knowen language go as nere to this abominable heresie of Suenkfeldius as wee are moste farre from the same Who dooe iudge and teache that all men of all sortes ought with diligence to reade or heare the scriptures Thou must not be perfecte in the Scriptures saieth this stinkyng heretike Suenkfeldius the scripture is not his worde but dead letters and no more accompte to be made of them then of any other creatures emongest the whiche thei are to be rekened Thou must not bee perfecte in the scriptures saie these false Papistes to all laie men it is ignoraunce that is the mother of deuotion it sufficeth a laie man to haue fidem implicitam an implicate faithe yea so implicate that the moste parte of seelie men vnder Poperie caÌ„ no more explicate what thei beleue then can a Popiniay yea and Popiniaye like bothe rehearsyng that their implicate faithe and praiyng in a straunge language thei can no more tell what thei saie then dooth the Popiniay whiche biddeth her dame good night maistres at midde daie And the Papistes speake of the holy scriptures not onelie as vnreuerentlie and abominablie as euer did Swenkfield but dooe farre passe hym in al outrage calling the Scriptures moste contumeliously and blasphemousâ—ie a nose of waxe and affirmyng it to be but an vncertaine thyng and like a rule of Lead appliable to euery wicked sentence and to all purposes excepte it haue the Popes direction as a moste certaine infallible rule I will rehearse the verie wordes of that blasphemous beaste and as Popishe a swine as euer was Swenkfielde a stinkyng heretike I meane Pighius in his Hierarchie or defence of the Popes supremacie written in our time of whom Hosius hath béen as bold to borowe his reasons and authorities as your maister doctor Hardyng hath been bolde to borowe of Hosius and as you M. Dorman haue been bolde with D. Hardyng hymself your maister to whom you owe a greate part of this your booke suche as it is Pighius woordes are these Sunt scripturae vt non minus verè quà m festiuè dixit quidaÌ„ velut nasus cereus qui se horsum illorsum in quam volueris partem trahi retrahi fingique facilè permittit tanquam plumbea quedam Lesbiae aedificationis regula quam non sit difficile accoÌ„modare ad quiduis volueris Et rursum Suprà indicauimus scripturas facilè trahi quocunque velut pluÌ„beam quandam regulam haud difficulter applicari impiae cuiuis sententiae c. These are his verie woordes whiche in English are thus muche The scriptures as
whole companie of Papistâ—s beeyng at so good leisure as thei are that thei haue not hitherto answered the Apologie so loÌ„g abroade in their handes as we are blamed of many for that your bookes lately set foorth are not foorthwith answered It is a pleasure for M. Dorman to shoote at rouers to range as he liste in railyng here and there and to call the Apologie a fardle of lies But it is not so easy for maister Dorman nor D. Hardyng to answere it piththilie to the satisfiyng of the learned readers Whiche neither thei bothe nor their whole Romishe cleargie shal euer be able to answere to any purpose But I maie iustlie replie to M. Dorman as the truth is that this his booke is nothing els but a fardell of lies ragyng railinges packed together as I truste I haue in deede notified to the discreate reader for that is passed ouer of it hetherto doubte not of like successe in the rest And I thinke that all honest and learned men in déede will so muche more like the saied Apologie when thei shall vnderstande that it so muche mistiketh M. Dorman and other of like honestie and learnyng as he is Dorman fol. 7. But because I haue perceiued that God in that people in their lawe and priesthoode shadowed out vnto vs like a cunning workeman the whole forme and proportion of his churche as witnesseth saincte Paule Lex vmbram habet futuroruÌ„ bonoâ—â— non ipsam imag inem rerum The lawe conteineth a shadowe of the good thynges to come but expresseth not manifestly the truth of thinges therefore I thought I might well reason from the shadow to the bodie from the resemblaunce image to the truthe thereto answering FroÌ„ the whiche kinde of reasonyng saincte Paule sometymes absteined not as when he laboured to proue that the lawe of the gospell would beare that thei whiche preached the gospell should liue thereby he reasoned after this sort Nunquid secundum hominem haec dico â–ª Speake I this as a man That is to saie proue I this by worldly reasons An lex haec non dicit Saieth not the lawe so toe And so goeth he forewarde and proueth yet by this texte of the olde lawe Thou shalt not moosell or binde vp the mouth of the labouryng Oxe as though he should haue saied it was so in the shadowe therefore it must be so in the bodie and in the truth signified by that shadowe Thus ye se good readers that I maie saie with saincte Paule haue I proued onely by reasons fetched from the dooynges of men by examples of all common wealthes and societies well gouerned that in Christes common weale there must be also one to rule Haue I affirmed this because sainct Cyprian saincte Hierom blessed and holy Leo so saied VVho yet were while thei liued here but men although now sainctes in heauen Nunquid non lex haec dicit Saieth not the lawe so toe Nowell You take to muche pain M. Dorman to prooue y t you may lawfully with S. Paule allege out of th' old testament for the proofe of good causes as he did We blame you not for that you allege out of th' old testament but for your guilefull vntrue application of places of the old testament of the doctors to suche purposes as thei apperteine nothyng vnto at all naie are moste contrary to the same I would you and all other aduersaries of the truth would as you saie with sainct Paule reason from the shadowes of the olde lawe to the truthe therby figured but you haue dooen otherwise For you dooe not with sainct Paule but with Pighius and Hosius vse this place not bringing vs by shadowes to the truthe as did S. Paule but by your shadowes of Ceremonies you haue darkened the truthe brought vs quite awaie from it You haue by this your reason so was it in the shadowe therfore it must be so in the bodie in the truthe signified by that shadowe not onely placed your Romishe head ouer the whóle Christian Churche but also of Christians you haue made vs Iewes and your selues of ministers of the Gospell haue you made Iewishe Aaronicall Leuites You haue on Aarons robes you vse his gestures you haue brought in his incense his censers his altars his candelles his candlestickes his belles and his banners his gold and his siluer into the seruice and Temple of God Of the whiche then beginning S. Hierome in his time muche coÌ„plained And would to God you had doen no woorse then thus made vs and your selues altogether Iuishe by your shadowes imitatyng and counterfaityng the olde lawe I would ye had not also by bringyng in of Idols by inuocations of dead menne by your charmes and witchecraftes contrary to all Gods lawe both old and newe made vs altogether moste wicked Ethnishe Idolaters and withall made a marte and set a sale all this your religion thereby to robbe séelie Christians both of their witte and money yea and of their soules health too whiche is moste of all as it is euidente to all the worlde you haue dooen But now to proceede with M. Dormans reason from the shadowe to the bodie from the figure to the truthe from the Iuishe churche to ours In the Iuishe churche all the people menne wemen and children had the Scripture in a language that thei did well vnderstande the Leuites and priestes in the Iuishe churche had wiues and children in the Iuishe churche there were no Images ergo it must be so now in our churche For God like a cunnyng workeman in that people in their lawe and priesthoode shadowed out vnto vs the whole forme and proportion of his churche now it was so in the shadowe therefore it must be so in the bodie and in the truthe These bee your owne woordes M. Dorman To proceede Maie it be proued by reason onely that thei who are bounden to obeie Goddes lawe oughte to vnderstande and knowe Goddes lawe Dooeth not the lawe saie so too Maie it bee proued by reason onely that ministers of the Churche maie haue wiues Maie not one reason with S. Paule Vnusquisque propter vitandam fornieationem habeat vxorem suam Et qui se non continent nubant Nam melius est nubere quà mvri That is to saie Let euery man for the auoiding of fornication haue his wife And suche as caÌ„not conteine let theÌ„ marie for it is better to marie then to burne Dooeth not the lawe saie so too Maie it bee proued by reason onely that Images ought not to bee in the temples and that men whiche haue life and reason ought not to boow and scoupe to insensible blockes or stones Dooeth not the lawe forbidde it to If you will denie my argumentes and thinke these reasons vnreasonable as I thinke you will yet I trust you doo against your own woords and forme of reasoning And good M. Dorman asâ—oile me of
agaynst the Prophetes Psalmes or the lawe for so Christe doth diuide the holy Scriptures of the olde Testament as here hath Hosius written he should according to the iudgement of the lawe haue like a wicked blasphemar be stoned to death But blasphemie against God and his holy scriptures is with our aduersaries a sporte Dayly and most horrible blasphemies against Christe are suffered in the Iues by the Pope and they neuerthelesse remaine the Popes friends specially in néede of money Onely a woorde against that false vsurpar of Rome and his leude traditions is auenged with swoorde fagot and fire moste cruelly vpon those that doo professe Christes name and all the articles of the Christian faith Whiche emongst many others is not the least proofe that y e Pope is Antichrist for that he doeth therby declare that he preferreth him selfe and his owne traditions before Christe his gospell auenging himself so extremely vpon the cōtemners of his said traditiōs and permitting blasphemers against God our sauiour Christ the holy scriptures to remayne not onely vnpunyshed but also his deare friendes But lette vs procéede with M. Dormans rehearsall of Suenkfeldius heresies The holy ghost vseth to come from aboue vvithout the help of meanes as hearing preaching or reading the scriptures VVe must looke to be taught from heauen not out of bookes saith Suenkfeldins Doo not you Papistes say the same haue not you geuē ouer preaching of gods woord your selues barred the people from reading hearing of it by your crueltie close keping of it in a language vnknowen to the people and burnyng the bookes of the scripture transiated for the peoples vnderstanding Are not you the right heyres of those Phariseis whom our sauiour speaketh of that haue taken away this key of knowledge of goddes woorde and neither will enter in your selfe nor suffer other that would to entre And thus laying aside preaching your selues and burnyng other that doo preache and barryng the people of God from reading and hearyng of his woorde you doe saye euen as did Suenkfeldius that the holy ghoste vseth to come from aboue into your Popishe churche without all helpe of meanes as hearyng preaching or readyng of the Scriptures whiche you will by no meanes suffer so to be vsed in the churche as it may be vnderstanded Are not you those who contrarie to goddes commaundement that the booke of the lawe should not departe out of the handes and from the eyes of his seruauntes haue either suche bookes as fewe can vnderstande either burne such bookes of gods law as all may vnderstand for that you will not haue them to learne of goddes booke but onely of suche traditions as are reuealed to your churche from heauen as you say Thus you sée good readers I truste euidently howe that M. Dorman hath moste vniustly charged vs and that we are as farre from Suenfeldius vile heresies as the Papistes in all poinctes by M. Dorman rehearsed agree and ioyne moste iustly with theim as I haue declared by the very woordes of Pighius D. Hardinges chiefe author and by Hosius M. Dorman his peereles pearle for learnyng and vertue as he sayeth Whiche Hosius gaue occasion to M. Dorman to make mention of Suenfeldius in this place as partly before and more plainely nowe hereafter doth appeare Dorman fol. 11. And thus vvhilest moste shamefully to the great dishonor of the vvhole realme vnder vvhose name as it vver that fardel of lies their apologie vvas sent abroade thei haue not ben ashamed to charge vvith this heresie of Suenkfeldius one of the greatest estates both for lerning and vertue that at this daie Christendom hath vve may se that thei haue not only shovved thē selues to be very vvicked and shameles men the truthe to their vtter and perpetuall infamie and shame had thei any plainly to the contrary in the vvorcks of him vvhome thei so sclaundred bearing vvitnesse against them but are also runne into the same groundes vvhereon Svvenkfilde builded his heresie their ovvne selues Novvell I trust that who so euer shall reade that conformitie betwene the papistes and Suenkfeldius and both their heresies before declared and specially by the woordes of Pighius and Hosius him selfe shall vnderstande that Hosius was not without cause charged with some affinitie to Suenkfeldius his heresie and with contempt blaspemie against God and his holy scripture wherewith Hosius writings doo abounde and beare witnesse most plenteously thereof and that therefore it is no shame at all to the author of the apologie to beare witnesse of the truthe the whiche apologie yet once again M. Dorman with one woorde after his manner confuteth calling it a fardel of lies But euery woorde that M. Dorman speaketh is not gospell Although he haue here in this his booke packed vs vp suche store of lies that he might more iustly haue intitled it a Lighter laden with lyes than a fardell of lies yet shall he and all his fellowes finde it more easie for them to sende vs ouer a Hulke or twayne full fraughted with suche lies as this and other their bookes swarme withall than to answere that litle apologie to any purpose terme he it neuer so contemptuously Concerning Hosius so great an estate of Christendome I wist not of it before Sure I am that in Polonia his countrey he is of the meaner sort of bishoppes there and what should make him so great an estate besides I know nothing but his Cardinals hatte which how much so euer M. Dormā estemeth yet the truth is that originally a Cardinall is but a person or vicar of one of the parishe churches in Rome or there about in the countrey For after that the Popes had iniuriously and violētly put the people of Rome from the election of the sayde Popes beyng but byshoppes of Rome which election of right apperteined to them ioinctly with the cleargie and had geuen full authoritie to the persons and vicars of the parishes in Rome that they alone should elect the Pope Pope Paschall the first of that name to adourne these Papall electours with some solemne title named these single soled clerkes Cardinalles and Pope Nicolas the second of that name confirmed the same as is in y e Florentine historie declared But yet hitherto were these Papall electors footemen for that they were not as yet hable to paye for their horse meate in Rome where prouander is deare because they had chaunged their name and not mended their liuinges they went appareiled as yet like other commen curates no better than our Cardinalles in Paules cathedrall church yea many of them farre wourse This vncomlinesse pope Innocentius the fourth of that name wysely consideryng sayth Platina Statuitvt Cardinales equo in publicum vecti galero rubrovterentur honestandi ordinis causa That is to saye He made a statute or ordre that the Cardinalles should ryde on horsebacke when thei came abroade and should were a redde hatte for the honestie of the
A REPROVFE written by Alexander Nowell of a booke entituled A PROVFE OF CERtayne Articles in Religion denied by M. Iuell set furth by Thomas Dorman Bachiler of Diuinitie and Imprinted at Antvverpe by Iohn Latius Anno. 1564 Prouerb 19. 4. Teflis falsus non erit impunitus qui loquitur mendacia non effugiet A false witnesse shall not remaine vnpunished and he that speaketh lyes shall not escape Set foorth and allowed according to the Queenes Maiesties Iniunctions Imprinted at London in Fléetestréete by Henry Wykes Anno Domini 1565. 13. die Iuly Cum Priuilegio ad imprimendum solum M. Dormans preface to D. Harding to whom he dedicated his booke and to the Reader are onely omitted for that nothing materiall was conteined in them Of all the rest so farre as I haue proceded not one woorde of M. Dormans either in the treatie it selfe or in his marginall notes is pretermitted There is nothing in this Impression altered from the first sauing onely that M. Dormans euyll handlyng of the auncient Doctours is in some places more at large explicated and that some part of M. Dormans treatie somewhere before diuided is now for more perspicuitie and plainenesse ioyned togeather THE PREFACE to the Reader THOVGH many simple soules may muche meruell at suche plentie of Englishe bookes as are of late so sodeinly sente vs from beyonde the seas by our countrey men there and bothe the authors themselues doo muche bragge therein and their fautors doo magnifie the same exceedingly yet the learned and discrete Readers accustomed rather to vveigh and iudge then to counte and numbre vvill easely consider that it is no harde mater for our aduersaries abouÌ„ding vvith leasure and multitude by common conference of many to patche vp a sorte of suche bookes in Englishe vvherein there is nothing to any purpose vvritten but that vvhiche vvas longe before vvritten in sundry latine bookes and readie to their handes to translate thereout into their Englishe bookes as they thought meete for their purpose so that they be but seely translators or borovvers of those bookes vvhose first authors they vvoulde appeare to be In the vvhiche poincte yet M. Stapleton translating Staphilus his longe Latin booke so longe before vvritten vvorde for vvoorde into Englishe and not dissembling the matter hath dealt therin more simplie theÌ„ the rest of his felovves haue doone By vvhose example the meanest men in learninge and vvitte amongst them all haue they onely a litle vnderâ—â—â—nding in the Latin tongue may lode vs vvith hauocke of bookes vvhen they list For it is vvell kuovven to all that be learned that nothing of vveight or to any purpose can novv nevvly be vvritten for the mainteinance of the Popes vsurped supremacy or any other their matters vvhiche they novv treate of but suche as hath been alreadie both vvritten and printed many yeres agoe in bookes as vvell of the Latin tongue as other languages and the same to be fully ansvvered vnto also to the satisfiynge of the Readers and daily vvinning of greate numbres of men and vvemen of all sortes and degrees from their popishe superstition vnto the truth of the Gospell such bookes as vvell of the one sorte as of th' other beinge rise in the handes of such as vnderstande to such decay of their saide superstition and successe of the truthe as to the vvorlde at this day cannot be vnknovven VVherefore our aduersaries mistrustinge that such kinde of vvriting or rather translating should not appeare vvoorthie to be accoÌ„pted the earnest dooing of any learned or vvise man haue doone vvittely ether to pretende that to be vvriten but lightly for a priuate friende or tvvaine and not mente to be printed but by persvvasion of friendes against their ovvne purpose suffered to come abroade vvhiche yet they in deede haue of longe by common conference elaborated at conuenient oportunitie to be put in printe to the publike patrocinie of their decaied and almost desperate cause or els to appoincte suche to beare the name as the authors of their bookes as may seeme moste meete therefore beinge accompted of all that knovv them for learninge and discretion the simplest men amongst them The same distrust of their ovvne dooinges or rather other mens dooinges set foorth for their ovvne may seeme a cause vvhy they directe their vvritinges either onely or chiefely against the Bishoppe of Sarisburie thinkinge that though they shall absolutely of the matters they take in hande be hable to say nothinge but that is alreadie saide and is likevvise or easely may be ansvvered yet may they seeme abundantly to say to him vvho chalengeth them that they can say nothinge at all and vvho also doth not tie them streightly to the triall of the scriptures the certaine and onely iudges in controuersies of ReligioÌ„ and vvherin in deede they can say nothing at all as shall hereafter be plainly proued but geueth them a moste large scope of all Doctours of the Churche vvho haue vvritten for the space of sixe hundreth yeres after our Sauiour Christes beinge here in earth and of all Councelles kept in the saide continuance of time Out of the vvhiche Doctors and Councelles for that the said Bishop hath aduouched that the best learned of all the aduersaries or all the aduersaries togeather are hable to bring nothing to any purpose for them he hath set all the aduersaries learned and vnlearned a vvoorke by coÌ„mon conference to deuise to say somthing for themselues and against him vvho affirmeth they can say nothing at all And yet fearing least that somthinge vvhiche they all are hable to say â–ª vvill fall out at the lengthe to proue nothinge to purpose they haue all like vvise men agreed that some fevv shall take vpon them to be the onely authors of that something vvhich they all can say least if that somethinge as it is deuised by them all so it should passe abroade in all their names and in time proue nothing at all all their estimation vvere lost at once And for more cautell suche some also to be named for the saide authors as haue not all learninge vvit nor discretion but men of a diuers profession vvho haue yet some fight in Diuinitie as studientes of the same for so they professe them selues VVherin they seeme to me to deale vvith vs as did the Phariseis vvith Christe vvho vvould not come them selues to dispute vvith him but sent their Disciples vvell instructed and furnished vvith all that themselues coulde possibly say to oppose him to th' ende that if their Disciples should obtaine the victorie the glory of their maisters vvho had suche excellent scholers might mount aboue the Moone But in case the scholers should be blanked it might for excuse yet be saide vvhat maruell if yonge men and yet but studientes in the Scriptures tooke a litle foyle But if the olde Doctors come themselues I vvarrant you this nue Prophet shal be othervvise handled And yet like vvise men they
innocent sheepe of Christes folde men and wâ—men yea yonge striplinges and maydes those little lambes shead by these rauening and bloudthristie woulfes testifie the same moste aboundantly in our Phariseis Scribes and high priestes the successours and children of those their olde Iuish forefathers of whoÌ„ with their saide forefathers as this sentence was spoken so dooth it moste expressely represent and depainte them moste liuely in their naturall colours that ye maye well know them by their fruictes For that they spoile poore wydowes houses vnder y t pretence of their longe prayers their diriges Masses of Requiem Trentalles c. is but a trifle with them but the greatter shal be their damnation as our Sauiour saith Now concerning the schisme which M. DormaÌ„ shooteth at chieflie We answere we haue made none other schisme from you than did S. Paule make from the saide high priestes Scribes and Phariseis your predecessours from whom though he were from his childehood brought vp emongst theÌ„ he did wel vpon good grounde departe for that they had before departed made a schisme from God and his most holy lawe to the traditions of the mother churche of their Pharisaicall fathers as haue likewise you Papistes departed made a schisme from Christe and his Apostles doctrine and from the auncient churches founded by the Apostles labour to your mother the Romishe Sinagoge and haue by your poysoned Popishe traditions slayne moe soules than you haue by your crueltie murdred bodies of Christian men and wemen as we haue prooued and wyll dayly prooue more and more most euidently vnto the world vntill all godly in the worlde knowyng you by your fruictes dooe forsake you as did the godly before forsake the olde Phariseis Scribes and highe Priestes and folowed Christe and his holy Apostles as we haue partely already brought to a good forwardnesse Thus you may sée why we haue departed from you and returned to Christe and his holy Apostles and the churches by them founded from whom you haue departed Returne you to them and we will not swarue from you take away the schisme that you haue made from Christ our sauiour his holy Apostles and the churches founded vpon their doctrine and we wyll ioygne with you Otherwise as long as you shall thus swarue from Christe and his Apostles and their doctrine cry you out against schismatikes neuer so much we will neuer ioygne with you beinge the very schismatikes in déede And thus muche I thought to saye to the sentence of S. Augustine against Petilian by M. Dorman alleaged in the fyrst front of his booke as against vs but in déede moste directlie detectinge the schismaticall secte of all Papistes our aduersaries that I might leaue no one sentence of any olde doctour by M. Dorman though colourably and falsely alleaged vnanswered To the Reader I Doo vnderstande sith the first printinge of this booke that muche mutteringe and whisperinge is made by certaine Papistes about certaine places of my booke as false or faultie and namely that place of S. Cyprian De simplicitate Praelatorum as by me guilefully alleaged by omittinge that whiche maketh as they say for them and their Popes Supremacie This Popishe practise by mutteringe whisperinge poinctinge quarellinge and liynge to attempte the defacinge of the simple and plaine truthe and to the maintenaunce of their owne vntruthe is no new practise neither happeneth it to me vnloosed for at this time whiche they faile not to doo to al men and in all matters at all times But as I can not certainely answearevncertaine corner mutteringes so as soone as I shall see any certaine thinge set foorth in Printe to the worlde againste my booke I will God willinge not leaue it longevnanswered as well to the aduouchinge of my true dealinge as to the declaration of theirvniustquarellinge and consequently as I trust to the more full satisfaction of all reasonable Readers that doo looue truthe and sinceritie A. Nowell Dorman Fol. 1. A PRAEFACE OR INTRODVCtion to the first Proposition THE blessed Martyr of God S. Cyprian writyng to one Rogatianus a Bishop of his prouince hath thiese woordes Initia haereticorum ortus atque conatus schismaticorum malè cogitant ium haec sunt vt sibi placeant vt praepositum supèrbo tumore contemnant Sic de occlesia receditur sic alâ—are prophanum for is collocatur sic contra pacem Christi ordinationem atque vnitatem Dei rebellatur VVhiche is in Englishe thus muche to say The beginning of heretikes the first springyng vp and enterprise of schismatikes thinkyng a misse in matters of faithe groweth of pleasure that thei take in themselues of that that beyng puffed vp with pride thei contemne their head and gouernour appointed ouer theÌ„ By this meanes straie thei from the Churche Thus is a prophane altar placed without the doores and thus rebell thei against Christes peace gods ordinauÌ„ce and vnitie Nowell Saincte Cyprian writyng this Epistle to Rogatian one of his felowe bishoppes in Afrike who had a disobedieÌ„t deacon hath in the beginnyng of his letter these woordes Grauiter dolenter c. I and my felowe bishoppes here present were sore moued moste deare brother saieth saincte Cyprian when wee had redde your letters wherein you complaine of your deacon that he forgettyng your priestly place and his owne ministerie hath greeued you with his reproches and wronges Thus farre S. Cyprian By whiche wordes it appereth that the mattier was betwene Rogatian a bishop in Afrike and his deacon disobediente to hym and therefore nothing apperteinyng to the bishoppe of Romes supremacie at all Whiche might well haue appeared to the reader had maister Dorman written but the iiij lines next before the place by him alledged whiche are these Ideo oportet diaconum c. That is to saie Therefore it is mete that the Deacon of whom you doe write doe penaunce for his boldenesse that he acknowledge the honour of the priest and doo satisfie the bishop his superiour with full humilitie For the beginnyng of heretikes the springyng vp enterprise of schismatikes beyng euill minded are these that thei doo stand in their owne coÌ„ceite that thei despise their gouernour through swellyng pride c. As Maister Dorman hath out of saincte Cyprian alledged This declareth moste euidently that the sentence of S. Cyprian alledged by M. Dorman apperteineth to Rogatian and his deacon beyng Africanes and so generally to all other bishoppes their inferiours of what countrey soeuer thei bee and maketh nothyng for the Bishoppe of Romes supremacie at all If M. Dorman would proue hereby y t euery inferiour minister ought to be obedient to his owne bishop as his superiour or that the disobedience of suche is cause of schismes and heresies for so doeth S. Cyprian meane wee graunte the same But if he would haue it apperteine to the bishop of Rome or to make any thyng for the Popes supremacie as by that M. Dorman calleth this
an introduction to the proufe of his first proposicion whiche is of the Popes supremacie and by the processe of this his preface also it doeth plainly appere that he meaneth he abuseth shamefully the authoritie of S. Cyprian and thinketh all the worlde sauyng hymself alone asleape and blinde on bothe sides too Consideryng that that in all this Epistle there is not one woorde of the bishop of Rome or his supremacie nor he as muche as once named therein Dorman fol. I. And againe in an other place he writeth thus Vndè enim schismata haereses obortae sunt nisi dum episcopus qui vnus est ecclesiae praeest superba quorundam praesumptione contemnitur homo dignatione dei honoratus ab indignis hominibus indicatur Wherof saith he doo heresies and schismes spryng but of this that the bishop whiche is one and gouerneth the churche is through the proude and arrogant presumption of certaine contemned and set at nought and beyng the man by Gods approbacion allowed and honoured is of vnworthie men iudged Nowell M. Dorman trusted that as sone as these woordes The bishop vvhich is one and gouerneth the churche is despised the man by gods approbacion alowed is of vnvvorthie meÌ„ iudged should be redde or heard of the simple thei would nothyng doubte but that y e Pope of Rome despised by suche as we be was meant thereby But this epistle as it is written by S. Cyprian to one Pupianus so doeth it entreate of them twoo and their matters and nothyng concerneth the bishop of Rome For as before by the head and gouernour appoincted Rogatian was meante and not the Pope so in this place by the bishop vvhiche is one and gouerneth the churche by the man by Gods approbacion allovved and honoured and of vnvvorthie men iudged Sainct Cyprian hymself bishop of Carthage is meante who was abused by the saied Pupianus and to whom he did write this epistle reprouyng hym for his disobedience to his bishoppe S. Cyprian who was the onely manne allowed by Gods approbacion to gouerne the Churche of Carthage and so by the saied Pupian as his inferiour to be obeyed Wherefore this place is as impertinente to M. Dorman his purpose as was the former place For neither in this long Epistle is there as muche as one woorde of the bishop of Rome I conclude therefore that these places are by M. Dorman falsly and shamelesly alledged to make a shewe or as he calleth it an introduction to the bishop of Rome his authoritie wherevnto thei apperteine nothyng at all but onely to the euersion thereof And that M. Dorman hath thereby declared what credite he deserueth in the reste of his booke continued with like impudente lies Touchyng S. Cyprian his phrase of one bishop of the churche whiche M. Dorman taketh as signifiyng one bishop ouer the whole churche for that the falsenesse of that collection is at large explicated after in a more peâ—uliar place I pretermitte here to speake of it Onely this is moste euident in what sense so euer S. Cyprian taketh these woordes one bishoppe that ruleth the churche the bishop of Carthage is that one bishop and not the bishop of Rome and therefore that phrase of one bishop rulyng the churche can make nothyng for the bishop of Rome his supremacie but rather dooeth vtterly ouerthrowe it as apperteinyng specially to the bishoppe of Carthage in Aâ—rike not to the bishoppe of Rome in Italie and declaryng in deede the bishops of all places to be equall in authoritie and consequently ouerthrowyng the supremacie of one ouer all Dorman fol. â— The verie same thyng although in other woordes doeth S. Basile in an epistle written by hym to the bishoppes of Italie and Fraunce bewailyng therein the estate of his tyme moste plainely declare Whose wordes because thei doe liuely represent vnto vs the most miserable face of this our age I haue thoughte good to allege set before your eyes Ambitiones eorum qui dominuÌ„ non timent * praesidentias inuadunt et in propatulo de caetero impietatis praemiuÌ„ proposita est prima sedes Quare qui grauiores blasphemias protulit * ad populi episcopuÌ„potior habetur Perijt authoritas sacerdotalâ—s populi admoneri nolunt praesides dicendi libertatem non habent Silent piorumora permissumest autem dicere omni blasphemae linguae Prophanata sunt sacra That is to saie The pride â–ª and ambition of them whiche feare not our lorde doeth inuade and set apon their heades and openly the chiefeste place is proposed as a rewarde for wickednes And therfore he that can vtter against the bishop of the people moste greuous and slaunderous blasphemies is accompted of greatest price and had in moste estimation Th' authoritie of priesthood is lost The laite wil not be admonished The rulers be restreined of libertie to speake The mouthes of good menne kepe silence Euery blasphemous toÌ„gue is set at libertie Al holy thinges are made prophane Hetherto S. Basil Nowell M. Dorman dooeth not as he saied he would sette Sainct Basilles woordes before your eyes but dooeth goe aboute as muche as he can to bleare your eyes that you should not see the truthe For he is so desirous to make some shewe for the Popes supremacie that he would by false translation wrest places of the doctours moste impertinente to make them seme to sounde that waie and therefore in this place in stéede of these woordes praesidentias inuadunt thei dooe inuade the chiefe roumes he hath translated thei doe inuade and set vpon their heades And againe in stede of these woordes He that can vtter most greuous blasphemies to witte against Christ and the holie ghoste is accompted more worthy to be the bishop of the pople he hath thus translated he that can vtter against the bishop of the people moste greuous and slaunderous blasphemies is accompted of greatest price and had in moste estimatioÌ„ Thus hath M. Dorman translated this place whether negligently as halfe a sleape according to his name or ignorauÌ„tly as he that could not see though broad wakyng or maliciouslie wittyng and willyng did he falsifie it to make it seme as spokeÌ„ of the bishop of Rome whom he would haue to be taken for the head and the bishop of the people And vs he would haue to be taken for the inuaders of the said head and the blasphemours of that bishop as it were of God hymself against whoÌ„ properlie is blasphemie But let S. Basill hymself bee iudge betweene M. Dorman and me whose woordes in th'epistle folowing where he entreateth of the same matter and the whiche also M. Dorman hereafter allegeth are these Vnigenitus blasphematur non est qui contradicat Spiritus sanctus ignominia afficitur qui potest redarguere fugatur c. To saie The onelie sonne of God Christ is blasphemed and there is none to gaine saie it the holie ghost is reproched and he that is able to reproue it is
Ambrose Aurelius Prudentius and other Christian writers answeryng that false sclaunder is moste euidente to bee seen And as iustlie might you charge the Apostles and their doctrine with those schismes sectes and troubles as you dooe charge vs with these that haue risen in our daies Where it is well knowen to the worlde that our learned men haue by their writynges more oppugned and repressed the said sectes then all the Papistes haue dooen In deede wee must needes confesse a truth that whiles we al remained vnder the quiet obedience of your Romishe heade in one doctrine of his traditions there was a coloured kinde of quietnesse concorde and loue emongest all the members of that one heade the subiectes of that one gouernour and ruler and specially emōgest the cleargie of that one churche who had in possessiō the riches and rule of the worlde with not onely quietnesse but thankes also of thē that were bothe oppressed and robbed So blinded were thei with ignorance the mother of suche deuotiō brought in by the said Popishe cleargie by hidyng in vnknowen tongues and withdrawyng of the light of Gods woorde whiche should haue shined and guided our steppes better But when that Christ the authour of that light as he hymself and by his Apostles bewraied the errours of the Iuishe traditions by the saied light first springyng withall troubled their vnitie concorde in the doctrine of suche traditions and their quietnesse in their Synagoge so settled before so now the same our sauiour in the tyme by his wisedome appoincted who of his goodnesse would not suffer vs seelie straiyng shéepe to wander in darkenesse of suche errors nor of his iustice could suffer your head the Pope with his adherentes to deceiue his people any longer by the same light of his holy woorde againe springyng shinyng to vs sittyng in suche palpable darkenesse and in the shadowe of death hath disclosed that your head and you for the mainteinaunce of his and your fathers false traditions haue obscured hidden broken and forbiddē the lawe of God our heauenlie father and shinyng before vs hath exhorted vs to folowe and walke in the saied light and hath warned vs to forsake bothe your doctrine and woorkes of darkenesse By this occasiō is there risen a like schisme betweene you and vs as was betweene S. Paule and the Phariseis with whom he was broughte vp from his childhoode before By this occasiō of the light your greate gaine and riches mainteined by the darkenesse of ignoraunce and deuotion of seelie soules deceiued sufferyng themselues to bée robbed is decaied as was the gaine of Image makers shrine makers and other artificers of superstition in Ephesus by the preachyng of S. Paule By this meanes is your quietnesse troubled your reste interrupted your good cheare marred your pompe abated your estimation decaied and the yoke of your tyrannie shaken of our neckes This maketh your Romishe head and you crie as you doo and barke againste vs as heretikes and schismatikes as did the high priest and other Iuishe priestes and Phariseis crie out againste Christe and his Apostles This maketh your head and you to persecute vs moste cruellie and to adiudge vs to death as did your aunciente fathers persecute and iudge Christe and his Apostles If this bee to make schismes wee confesse our selues schismatikes from you who haue firste made your selues schismatikes from Christe and his Apostles To whō as wée doubt not but wée haue ioigned our selues in the truth of his Gospell so haue you in déede in persecuting of vs for professyng Christes Gospell and the doctrine of his Apostles ioigned your selues with the old Synagoge of Satan and the Iuishe Priestes and Phariseis who for the same cause persecuted Christe and his Apostles to death moste cruellie But if that you could with vs embrace the truthe of Christes Gospell walke with vs ioinctly in the light of his woorde there should bee more true quietnesse as well of consciences as of bodies more sincere loue more godlie vnitie peace ioy then euer there was wordlie quietnesse loue ioye in the darkenesse of Poperie Which because you refuse to doo despisyng the peaceable wayes of the Lorde you are guiltie of all these schismes and troubles and not we And so finallie for this part of purgation of our selues againste your sclaunders of schismes and troubles as by vs raised dooe we allege the effecte of the same Parable of the strong manne so quiet in his house vntill a stronger then he came and disturbed him whiche Christ our sauiour in like sclaūder rehearsed for defense of hymself If the reader shall thinke that I haue been to tedious in answeryng this matter here but touched by M. Dorman as it were by the waie I truste he will beare with me therein for that M. Dorman as he beganne and floorished the first face of his booke with blotting vs by this sclaunder of schismes so hath he hetherto cōtinued in the same and applied all his allegations out of S. Cyprian Basill Hierome Nicephorus and others chieflie to that purpose and omitteth not in euery other leafe hereafter importunately to repeate the same folowyng therein Eckius Pighius Hosius and generally all the aduersaries that speake or write againste vs who doo moste vehementlie and continuallie burthen vs with the crimes of schismes and fectes and of the disturbaunce of the quiet state of the churche and worlde at their pleasure termyng vs Heretikes Schismatikes Huguenotes Caluiniās Lutherans and Zuinglians Neither are thei contented herewith but doo also play with pictures verie pleasantlie as thei thinke in the whiche thei painte out a multitude of suche heretikes or rebelles as our confederates or alies whose opinions wee doo moste abhorre and against whom we continuallie bothe preache and write And all this doo thei for that thei are not ignoraunte that suche though moste false sclaunders beyng yet so importunelie and continuallie laied to our charge are of muche effecte to offende the mindes of the weake and simple to stirre vp their hatred against vs. And therefore thei vse suche constant asseuerations for argumentes as in their schooles thei are taught to doo when thei are destitute of due proufes whiche hath also caused me for the simplear sortes sake once at large to answere and earnestlie to repell that false vsuall sclaunder of schismes troubles laied vpon vs by those who are themselues moste guiltie thereof For I truste that no reasonable reader will thinke vs to bee suche onelie for that it pleaseth them maliciouslie so to misname vs and onelie to saie we be suche seyng their tongues and pennes are their owne to vse as thei liste and not in our power For as wee haue no religion but onelie Christes so desire we to be called after the names of none but his as we bee so to be named christians and beyng Christians we care not to bee called heretikes of heretiques or schismatikes of schismatiques suche as in
the world condemned and burned to ashes bee an eternall witnesse Yea let their owne decree made in the saied Councell whiche was That no faithe nor promise is to bee kepte to any heretike nor that any manne by any promise standeth bound to an heretike for so thei call all those that dare speake against them bee a perpetuall testimonie of the same Thei saie wee are heretikes wee dooe deny it if our naie maie not defende vs why should their yea coÌ„demne vs Thei saie because thei bee the churche but wee deny the same shall here their yea secue for theÌ„ as it did before against vs and our naie neither touch theÌ„ nor helpe vs In some countreis if the partie accused pleade not guiltie and saie naie to the crime obiected if he by diuers tormentes enforced to confesse doo still maintaine his naie and passe through the appoincted tormentes constanly mainteinyng his naie he is discharged and let goe But it caÌ„ not healp vs accused as heretikes to denie the false accusation to mainteine our deniall in all tormentes and moste cruell deathes neither to bring good testimonie of our innocencie out of Gods woorde all these can helpe vs nothyng against their onelie bare saiyng that we bee heretikes for that is all their proofe In what case are we then How easily maie thei then bothe defende themselues coÌ„demne vs and maintaine what thei list be it right or wrong truthe or falshoode beyng accusers witnesses examiners and iudges theÌ„selues in the causes wherein thei bée parties and parties accused also Wherefore what can we dooe els but as did Christ our sauiour and his holie Apostles against the high Priestes against the Phariseis and Scribes appeale to God not absent not dumbe as M. Dorman deuiseth and saiyng nothyng at all for vs as he would haue it seme but to God yea and to our Sauiour Christe his soonne speakyng his minde moste largelie and plainly in the scriptures and beyng no partie but moste indifferent iudge betwéene them and vs. For if the controuersie be about true Religion and scruice of God what better triall can there be then Goddes woorde God hymself commaundyng vs that in his seruice we shall dooe that whiche he coÌ„maundeth vs that wee shall neither adde thereto nor take any thyng therefrom What better Iudge can there be in this worlde betwene vs then Gods woorde whiche as our sauiour Christ saieth shall iudge vs in the worlde to come If the controuersie bee aboute the true churche what better iudge can there bee then the Scripture writen by the Prophetes and the Apostles seyng it is testified to vs by the spirite of GOD moste plainelie that the true churche is builded and staied vpon the foundation of the Prophetes of the Apostles And though this dooe not like M. Dorman and suche as he is yet you shall heare that it did not misâ—â—ke the old and holie fathers of the auncient and true churche that suche controuersies should bee so quietted by the scriptures Sainct Augustine coÌ„tendyng against those who doo attribute Gods grace and giftes to the woorthinesse of mennes merites coÌ„cludeth thus Cedamus consentiamus autoritati scripturae sancte quae nescit falli nec fallere That is to say Let vs geue place and aagrée to th'autoritie of the holy scripture whiche caÌ„ not bee deceiued nor deceiue others The same S. Augustine contending with the Donatistes hath these woordes Nos nullam Cypriano facimus iniuriam cum eius quaslibet literas à canonica Diuinarum scripturaruÌ„ autoritate distinguimus neque sine causa tam salubri vigilantia Canon ecclesiasticus constitutus est ad queÌ„ certi prophetaruÌ„ ApostoloruÌ„ libri pertineÌ„t quos omnino iudicare noÌ„ audemus secundum quos de caeteris fideliuÌ„ infideliuÌ„ iudicamus mox ca. 32. Ego huius epistolÄ™ autoritate noÌ„ teneor quia literas Cypriani noÌ„ vt canonicas habeo sed eius ex canonicis considero quod iÌ„ eis diuinaruÌ„ scripturatuÌ„ autoritati coÌ„gruit cum laude eius accipio quod auteÌ„ noÌ„ congruit cuÌ„ pace eius respuo Whiche is to saie We doo Cyprian no wrong when we make a difference betweene euery letter and writing of his and the Canonicall autoritie of the holy scriptures Neither without cause thecclesiasticall Canon with so holsome care hath béen appoincted to the whiche the certain assured bookes of the Prophetes Apostles pertaine the which in no wise we presume to iudge and according to the which we iudge of all other bookes writinges both of the faithfull and of the infidels And straight waies after in the 32. chapiter I am not bound to the autoritie of this epistle because I hold not Cyprians letters and writynges for Canonicall but consider his writynges by the Canonicall what accordeth in them to the auctoritie of the diuine Scriptures I allowe with his praise and what disagreeth froÌ„ them by his leaue I refuse These are the woordes of S. Augustine You maie sée here how S. Augustine preferreth the scriptures before the doctours yea before S. Cyprian so often by you M. Dorman alleged who was in deede a blessed martyr is no doubt a sainct in beauen and who also is mosse against you euen where he is alleged by you You see S. Augustine will haue sainct Cyprians writynges and all other doctours and mennes saiynges and writynges examined and Iudged by the scriptures whiche you yet reiecte as no coÌ„uenient iudges and that the scriptures maie be iudged by no man Yea S. Cyprian hymself agreyng hereto sheweth the causes why heresies schismes corruption of the truthe and breache of vnitie dooe come into the Churche and why so many are deceiued by the deuill transformyng hymself into an angell of light by these woordes Hoc eò fit fratres dilectissimi dum ad veritatis originem non reditur nec caput quaeritur nec magistri coelestis doctrina seruatur Quae si quis consideret examinet tractatu longo at que argumentis opus noÌ„ est That is to saie This coÌ„meth to passe hereof moste beloued brethren for that wée dooe not retourne to the origene â—â— beginnyng of the truthe neither is the head sought nor the doctrine of the heauenlie maistor kepte The whiche thynges if a man dooe consider and examine it shall not neede any long treatiâ— orargumentes Thus farre saincte Cyprian Who calleth Christe originem veritatis caput vnum caput originem vnam magistrum coelestem c. To saie The beginnyng of the truthe the head the onelie head the onely beginnyng the heaueÌ„lie schole maister whose doctrine if we would obserue we should not saith S. Cyprian neede any longe treatie or argumenâ—es But for that this beginnyng of the truthe is not returned vnto this heade is not soughte for the doctrine of this hâ—auenlie schoolemaister is not kepte he affirmeth it to bee the cause of all heresies schismes endlesse contentions illusions
erat sancta quę apud impios non erat Nunc autē aut tales aut peiores facti sunt Christiani quales sūt hęretici aut gentiles adhuc autem maior continētia apud illos inuenitur quamuis in schismate sint quà m apud Christianos Qui ergo vult cognoscere quae sit vera ecclesia Christi vnde cognoscat nisi tantummodo per scripturas Sciens ergo Dominus tantam confusionem rerum in nouissimis diebus esse futuram ideo mandat vt Christiani qui sunt ī Christianitate volentes firmitatem accipere verae fidei ad nullam rem fugiant nisi ad scripturas Alioqui si ad alia respexerint scandalizabūtur peribunt non intelligentes quae sit vera ecclesia That is to saie Let them that bee in Christianitie flie to the scriptures And wherfore ought al Christians at this time to flie to the scriptures Because in this time sith heresies possessed those Churches there can bee no proofe of true christianitie neither can there be any other refuge of Christians desiryng to knowe the true faithe but the diuine scriptures For before it was declared by many meanes whiche was the true churche and whiche was Gentilitie but now thei who would knowe whiche is the true churche can knowe it by no meanes but onelie by the scriptures Why so For all these thinges whiche are properly Christes in y e truth the same hath heresie also in schisme Heresie hath churches likewise and the diuine Scriptures likewise Bishops likewise and other orders of clearkes Baptisme likewise the sacramente of thankes geuyng likewise and all other thinges to conclude euen Christ himself He therefore that would knowe whiche is the true churche of Christ how can he knowe it in so greate cōfusion of likelihoode but onely by the scriptures Further the churche of Christ might be knowen before by the maners of it when the conuersation either of all or of the moste parte of Christians was holie whiche was not so emongest the wicked But now Christians are become either suche or woorse then be the heretikes or Gentiles yea there is greater continencie emongeste them though thei bee in schisme then is emongest the Christians He therefore that would knowe whiche is the true Churche of Christe how can he knowe it but onelie by the scriptures The Lorde therefore knowyng that in the last daies there would be so greate confusion of thinges dooeth commaunde that Christians whiche be in Christianitie willyng to haue the suertie of true faithe dooe flie to no other thing but to the scriptures Els if thei haue respecte to other thynges thei shall stumble or faile of the truthe and perishe not vnderstāding whiche is the true churche Thus farre that aunciente author whose sentence and verie woordes though for auoidyng of prolixitie alittle intermitted I haue truely rehearsed You maie see that this auncient writer will not allowe that you beeyng the one partie should claime to your self the name of Christians the name of the churche the names of bishops and the names of the cleargie and so to take vpon you as iudges to condemne the other partie but that bothe you and wee must be iudged and tried whether we be in Christianitie and in the true church by the scriptures You see the names of the churche of Bishops and cleargie whiche are common to heretikes with Christians can not prooue you to bee catholikes for that heretikes vse the same names but that bothe you and wee muste knowe by the Scriptures whether wee bee in the true faithe or no for that as he saieth in this confusion of thinges bothe the true churche and the true faith must bee knowen by the Scriptures onelie and by no other thyng and that whosoeuer goeth aboute otherwise to knowe them shall stumble and perishe Wherein this author dooeth agree with S. Augustine S. Hierome S. Chrysostome and with all the olde Doctours of the auncient churche Whereby al men maie well vnderstande that it is not our newe opinion as M. Dorman would haue it seme but the olde true perswasion of all the auncient doctors and godly fathers of the primitiue churche that the Scriptures as moste indifferent and certaine ought to be iudges in controuersies in religion rather then Doctours then Councelles then your Churche then dead menne then angelles yea that the scriptures should bee iudge and not thei And that the true sense of scriptures if doubte rise thereof maie bee and must be gathered by the conference of the scriptures who doo clearly expounde themselues For the declaration whereof the said doctors doo so often and largely write that the rehersall thereof would fil an huge volume but I did thinke that this much would suffice But you Papistes will neuer allowe the Scripture as iudge nor the sense thereof to be certaine vntill it come to the exposition of the Churche and you will bee that churche that must so expounde it your self that is you will graūt no sense to be true but your own sense But wee deny that you are the true Churche that hath this autoritie of determinyng of the sense of the scriptures And if you will saie still your are the churche neither will nor can proue it but onely by so saiyng we be not so voide of all sense and vnderstāding but that we perceiue you will haue no sense but your owne and that you will be still bothe parties and iudges in your own causes againste vs as the Iuishe high Prieste Phariseis and Scribes would needes be against Christ and his Apostles who did by your iudgemēt as it semeth allege the scriptures for themselues againste the saied high Prieste Scribes and Phariseis in vaine for that thei being the churche as you now be were the iudges of the sense of the saied scriptures by Christ and his Apostles alleged And I am sure that the high Prieste with his Iuishe churche was able to saie as muche for the ordinarie succession of the high Priestes his predecessours euen from Aaron vntil his time for antiquitie for consente and for vniuersalitie againste Christe and his Apostles so fewe in comparison and as it seemed latelie starte vp as you are able to saie for your churche or against vs. But yet we doo thinke that the woorde of God as it was alleged by Christe and his Apostles against the saied high priest and his churche so maie it and ought also to be alleged by vs against your high priest and your churche and that the same woords of God whiche shal iudge bothe you vs in the worlde to come as is saied ought also to be iudge betwéen you and vs here in this transitorie worlde for so dooeth our sauiour Christ teache so doo S. Chrysostome S. Augustine and S. Hierome with all the auncient doctors of the Churche teache also as hath been partely besore specified crie you neuer so muche to the contrarie and make you neuer so many exceptions to the scriptures and claime
Scholasticall distinction of caput absolutum and ministeriale healpe the matter nor yet Hosius declaration tendyng to the same ende how Bishops bee both seruauntes and lordes can in this case any thyng further you For there can not possiblie bee one onelie head minister in earth ouer all the churche throughout the whole worlde more then there can bee one vniuersall ciuill heade in earth ouer all the worlde it self But note the intollerable ambition of the Pope who when he saw he could not defeÌ„de the name of the Head of the vniuersall church rather then he would loose that onely sounde of this name Head of the church he qualiâ—ieth it with ministeriale to saie a seruing head of the church he might as good cheape haue been contente with the single title of a minister of y e churche And so he semeth sometyme colourablie in shewe to be contente callyng hymself seruum seruorum Dei the seruaunt of the seruauntes of God But he plaieth in deede Rex Regum dominus dominantium I knowe M. Dorman dooth so qualifie this the Popes supremacie terming him caput ministeriale the ministeriall head for that Christe is the absolute heade of all But yet in respecte of the whole churche as beyng vnder the Pope he will haue hym called caput the heade But I would haue hym to make that relation of caput and these woordes Seruus seruuorum to agree and to bee bothe caput and seruus or minister respectu eiusdem the head and the seruauÌ„t in one respecte specially claimyng suche a kinde of capitalitie as dooeth the Pope whiche can not agrée with the humble ecclesiasticall ministerie And I thinke he shall finde some difficultie and muche hypocrisie and more crueltie of suche a headie seruaunte and seruile head who if he be head he is a cruel and frantike head mangling his owne members as did Lyrurgus in his furious phrensie if he be a seruaunt he plaieth the false traitour murdering his felowe seruantes whose part at the commyng of the Lorde shal bee with hypocrites and homicides You might therefore as good cheape graunt the Pope simplie to bee minister ecclesiae a minister of the churche and therefore no head but an inferior to the Churche vniuersall But the truthe is in deede that the Pope is neither heade nor minister of Christes churche but a sworne enemie to bothe which he well declareth by his ragyng furie againste the true churche and members of Christ our head M. Dorman harpeth to muche vpon this one stryng out of tune for his purpose I meane the example of the Iewishe high prieste whiche as it declareth that it were good that euery seueral churche of euery seuerall nation had their seuerall head Bishop so dooeth it prooue nothyng that all churches of all nations must haue one onely heade in earth whiche is not possible to be That he saith as dooeth Hosius God would by this one earthly head the Pope shewe his exceadyng greate loue towardes maÌ„kinde is a manifest lie for it is euidente by experience that the Deuill the homicide the head of helle hath by this his principall minister the Pope shewed his murderyng malice againste mankinde more then euer he did by any Nerons Domitians Maximines or suche like bloudie tyrauntes And as the deuill hath vsed the Pope his ministers handes to al murders so hath that prince of darkenesse and father of lies by the Popes meanes moste darkened the light of Christes Gospell and hath vsed his polluted mouthe and tongue thereby to vtter all lies and blasphemies againste God and the truthe of his woorde Dorman Fol. 9. Because Christ is kyng of all kynges and lorde of all lordes because if it so pleased hym he could rule al this worlde muche better then it is ruled without the help of any other whereof he hath his absolute power coÌ„sidered no neede shall we therefore saie that there bee not nor neede to be any kynges here in earth VVhen sainct S. Paule called the man the head of the woman denied he therefore Christ to bee her head Kyng Saule when he was called by the Prophete Samuel caput in tribubus Israel the head of the tribues of Israel was God thinck you excluded that he should not be their head To vse examples more familier the archbishop of Cauntorburie is the heade of the Bishopricke and diocesse of London as he is of al the bishoprickes within his prouince and yet can not a man infer apon this that therfore the B. of LoÌ„doÌ„ is not the head of that his diocesse Nowell We dooe not sticke with you nor with Hosius your author about this name Head but that it maie be attributed to men as to the kynges and Iudges of Israel Saule Dauid and suche like But I praie you coÌ„sider by the waie when the scripture saieth that Saule was by God made head ouer the tribes of Israel whiche place Hosius and you dooe allege whether he wer appoincted heade ouer the tribe of Leui also that is ouer the Cleargie as well as ouer other tribes for that is to be considered We knowe that Christ is the onely heade ouer all and that he vseth kynges to bee seuerall heades vnder him vpon earth in their seuerall dominions as sigismunde in Polonia for Hosius vseth that example but we knowe aswell againe that God vseth no one kyng to be the onelie earthlie heade vnder hym ouer all the worlde whiche yet bothe Hosius and you should conclude M. Dorman if you would bryng in these examples to gather thereby that there oughte to bee one head in earth vnder Christe ouer all churches throughout the whole worlde dispersed for so should you haue prooued the saiyng of the Apologie vntrue and our argumente faultie But where the Apologie and we dooe thus reason Christe is the onelie head ouer the vniuersall churche Ergo he needeth not any other generall head in earth vnder hym neither can any mortall man be any suche head You like a good Logician stickyng to the matter dooe prooue that there bee diuers seuerall heades in the Churche vnder Christe whiche wée neuer denied no more then wée denie that there bée seuerall kynges rulers in earth vnder God though we denie that there is one onelie kyng or Emperour of all the worlde But neither by your Logike shall you euer prooue nor by your Rhetorike perswade to any reasonable men by suche vnreasonable reasonyng and examples impertinente that there is or can be any one head in earth vnder Christ either of all the worlde or of all the Churche dispersed thrâ—ughout the worlde For to gouerne the whole world or the whole Churche is the peculiar and onelie office of God and Christ and a thyng vnpossible to any earthlie manne who hath muche and to muche a dooe well to gouerns one little parcell thereof as I haue saied before And where you mingle kynges Bishops together whose offices are distincte and vse the examples of the Archebishop of
woorde of God is the true light wherein wee endeuoure our selues to our power to walke Your vnwritten verities are more meeter for blinde Battes to flitter in Wee haue our heade and Iudge in heauen one Christe onelie and in earth one prince and other ministers bothe ecclesiasticall and ciuill to gouerne and Iudge vs accordyng to his holie woorde To iuggle and to coniure too bée your owne Popishe properties we haue nothing to doo with theÌ„ And thus I haue answered M. Dormans asseueratioÌ„s in this place by shorte poinctes which maie suffice seyng he onely saith his pleasure proueth nothing at al. Dorman Fol. 14. Tell them that you haue seen them thriue so euell apon that presumption of theirs so many heresies so many schismes and leude opinions broughte in thereby that you are at a poincte with your selues to leaue them and take that waie that Saincte Hierome in the like case hath doen before you who although his knowledge in the tongues were suche as by the reporte of moste men it passed any others in his tyme yet would not he take vpon hym in the discussyng of doutes to leane to that rule of theirs to laâ—e and conferre together one texte with an other but referryng hymself to the see of Rome he alwaies protested that by that seate and faithe praised by the Apostles owne mouth would he be counceled and ruled Beatitudini tuae id est cathedrae Petri communione consocior To your holines saieth he writyng to Damasus then the Bishoppe of Rome that is to saie to Peters chaire am I ioigned in communion and he addeth a cause whie Super illam Petram aedificatam ecclesiam scio I knowe that on that rocke Peters chaire the Churche is builded Nowell The Pope and Papistes haue thriuen so well vpon their striuyng againste the truthe of Goddes woorde that I trust all the worlde shortly will be at a poinct to leaue them Saincte Hierome saieth no where that he would not compare the scriptures together for the discussyng of doubtes as M. Dorman would beare vs in hande and S. Augustine saieth he would dooe it and exhorteth other to dooe the same S. Hieromes woordes to Damasus Bishop of Rome make nothyng againste vs nor with M. Dorman For what meruaile is it if that sainct Hierome borne in a coaste of Italie Christened at Rome brought vp at Rome and made priest at Rome would in the faith of the blessed Trinitie rather ioigne himself in communion with Damasus Bishop of Rome a learned and godlie man then with Vitalis and Meletius whom M. Dorman calleth Miletus and Paulinus who were Antiochian bishops and therefore straungers to him and also not cleare from the Arrian heresie What argument can M. Dorman frame hereof Hierome a Prieste of Rome c. ioigned hymself in communion to his owne bishoppe Damasus Ergo we Englishemen musie ioigne our selues likewise to the bishoppe of Rome that now is beyng bothe a forainer and an enemie Againe Hierome ioigned in communion with Damasus a godlie bishoppe of Rome Ergo we must submit our selues to a false vsurper and enemie of God and all godlinesse Naie it foloweth rather thus As saincte Hierome refused to ioigne hymself to Vitalis bishoppe of Antiochia and an Arrian bothe because he was a straunger and also an heretike and ioigned hymself to Damasus his owne Bishoppe and a godlie Bishop so ought wée to refuse the Pope beyng bothe a foraine vsurper and a false heretike to ioigne againste hym with our owne godlie bishops at home But will M. Dorman saie saincte Hierome addeth a cause whiche is the pith of the matter saiyng thus Super illam petram c. I knowe that vpon that rocke Peters chaire the Churche is builded whiche is the cause why S. Hierome ioigned with Damasus will he saie But he maie be ashamed had he any shame at al thus shamefully by a false parenthesis to intermingle these woordes Peters chaire in this sentence of S. Hierome and so to falsifie it as though S. Hierome had saied or ment in this place that the Popes chaire is the rocke whereon the Churche is builded And now maie ye see to what ende all M. Dormans long former drifte commeth to witte to bryng vs from the scriptures to Peters chaire that is the Popes consistorie there to bee iudged whiche now at the laste after so long suspensioÌ„ and delaie vnder S. Hieromes name but moste falsly he hath vttered For the more plain declaration wherof I will report here sainct Hieromes woordes a little more largely then M. Dorman hath dooen whiche are these Facessat inuidia Romani culminis recedat ambitio cuÌ„ successore piscatoris discipulo crucis loquor Ego nullum primum nisi Christum sequens Beatitudinis tuae id est Cathedrae Petri communione consocior super illam Petram aedificatam Ecclesiam scio Quicunque extra hanc domum agnum comederit prophanus est Si quis in Arca Nohae non fuerit peribit regnante diluuio That is to saie Let enuie auoide let the ambition of the height of Rome departe I speake to the successour of the fisher and a disciple of the crosse I folowyng no chief or head but Christ am ioigned in communion to your holines to saie Peters chaire vpon that rocke I knowe the Churche to bee builded whosoeuer eateth the Lambe without this house he is prophane or vnholie If one be not in the arke of Nohe he shall perishe when the floud is aloft Thus farre S. Hierome Now if a manne would aske of M. Dorman why he left out those twoo lines wherein S. Hierome admonisheth Damasus as the successour of the poore fisher Peter to laie aside all ambitioÌ„ whiche the greatnesse of the citie of Rome might mooue hym too and withall affirmeth that he will folowe no chief head but Christe whiche woordes are ioigned and by a participle dependyng to that whiche M. Dorman alleged whatsoeuer he shall answere thereto I knowe the true answere M. Dorman did of falsehood and corruption of the meanyng of sainct Hierome thus detrunke and mangle his sentence for he did sée that S. Hierome admonishing Damasus of humilitie and withall professyng hymself to folowe no chief or head but Christ not exceptyng Damasus case but rather affirmyng hym not to be Primum the chief maketh clearely with vs who in this controuersie of the Popes vsurped supremacie saie the same We folow no head but Christ we ioigne in communion with none but suche as folowe hym c. Furthermore he did see that the woordes of S. Hierome folowyng vpoÌ„ this rocke I know the church to bee builded might and ought to bee referred vnto Christe mentioned by S. Hierome so nere before and by Peter coÌ„fessed to be that rocke wheron the churche is builded and therefore M. Dorman left out of saincte Hieromes sentence the meÌ„tion of Christ that he might most falsly and blasphemously referre the rocke to Peters chaire as though Peters
the conference of scriptures for that heretikes haue vsed the like And what if Arrians Anabaptistes or other heretikes will not bee satisfied with conference of places and textes of scripture Is it not well that all true Christians be satisfied thereby Dooe not thei allege Doctours and Councelles for them aswell as scriptures As though M. Dorman could deuise vs a waie that should satisfie all heretikes without all contradiction or exception on their parte whiche shall neuer in this worlde be brought to passe For our Sauiour Christe hymself the soonne of God neither by the authoritie of his diuine persone nor by the truthe of his heauenlie doctrine nor by the confirmation of the same by his wonderfull miracles neither by his example of moste vertuous life neither by al these together did satisfie al men but that many yea those who of reason leaste should the Priestes Scribes and Phariseis made exception to his persone and life and were not satisfied by his doctrine It M. Dorman therefore dooe mislike the Scriptures or the conference of textes for that all men will not be thereby satisfied sure I am that he shall neuer bee satisfied in this worlde as one that might by that reason mislike also of our sauiour Christ hymself as no-sufficient iudge And thinketh he that Popes of Rome menne of suche life suche partialitie suche ignorance suche vntruthe suche falsehoode suche briberie Simoniakes poisoneâ—â— murtherers shall satisfie all menne in all their iudgementes of all causes and controuersies yea in their own verie causes wherein thei be parties and that without all exception The deuill thei shall and that maie I saie truely Wherefore I dooe coÌ„clude though our sauiour Christ were to the high Priestes Scribes Phariseis and other wicked a stone to stuÌ„ble at and a rocke of ruine his Gospell either an offence or a mockage so farre of was it that he did satisfie theÌ„ yet is he and his holie woord whiche is the vertue the wisedome of God the true iudge in all controuersies doubtes of religion whatsoeuer the high prieste or his adherentes the Scribes and Phariseis dooe faie to the contrary or be M. Dorman neuer so angrie therewith Dorman Fol. 13. If your hartes good readers bee moued vvith these heresies in the readyng as truelie God I take to vvitnesse myne vvas in the vvrityng abhorre those that teache them shonne and auoide suche principles and groundes as haue been the foundation not of these onelie but of all that novve reigne in the vvorlde and maie bee of any other hereafter that any desperate heretike listeth to inuente Sticke to those by vvhiche all heretikes haue been and these shal be to ther vtter coÌ„fusion vanquished Shrinke not rashelie from that fundation vvhereon your elders and forefathers fastenyng theÌ„selues haue passed ouer so many hundred yeres in the true confession of one God one faithe one truthe to them that hauyng yet scarse fourtie on their backes haue notvvithstandyng emongest them creapyng all out of the filthie neast of one Martin Luther so many faithes and yet no faith so many truthes and yet no truthe neuer a one agreyng vvith the other as there be madde frantike heades emongest them Geue no eare to that subtill generatioÌ„ vvalkyng in the darck like blinde Battes vvithout a head vvithout a Iudge and all to the ende their iuggeling might not be espied Nowell O pitifull harted manne but yet farre better Oratour then tender harted who when he drawyng towardes an ende of this his first parte that is to witte That the vvhole churche must needes haue one onelie heade and thinkyng that he ought to haue some matter of weighte to mooue affections vpon and findyng none in his purposed matter bringeth in the rehearsall of the Arrians and Anabaptistes heresies whiche it is knowen to the worlde that we dooe moste abhorre and vpon them as it were vpon our heresies dooeth this Rhetorician russhe into these vehemente affections whiche he mooueth here but as I thinke stirreth no wise manne excepte it be to laugh at his foolishenesse Where he speaketh of desperate heretikes sainct Cyprian so calleth all suche as thinke one Bishoppe inferiour to an other as dooeth maister Dorman and suche other Papistes as hath been before declared Maister Dorman adourneth the Popes chaire or see of Rome with many glorious titles but nameth it not as yet neither a greate while after partly for that a periphrasis or circumscription was here more meete for amplifications sake and partelie for that when he had reiected the scriptures he thought it not good by and by to saie that all heretikes whiche by no meanes can be vanquished by the scriptures muste bee vanquished by the see of Rome or Peters chaire or Popes theron sittyng but to auoide all shewe of absurditie he compasseth the matter and at the laste stealeth vnto the see of Rome vnder S. Hieromes name That he exhorteth you to sticke to those by whom all heretikes haue been and these shal be to their vtter confusion vanquished meaning the Popes of Rome as is afterward euideÌ„t I aunswere If force fire and fagoties faile them not for other meanes to vanquishe haue not the Popes nor knowe thei any thei will no doubte vse their cruell furie againste vs as thei haue dooen and yet haue thei as I thinke neither gotten any greate gaine nor made any greate conqueste but if Gods woorde maie bee heard I doubte not but the Popes chaire of pestilence shal be shortly ouerthrowen and he with all Papistes vanquished to their vtter confusion Where he calleth the Popes chaire for it he meaneth as after he dooeth declare the foundation whereon our elders forefathers staâ—ed them selues many hundreth yeres in the confession of one faithe and truthe c. the contrarie is moste true that the Pope hath as muche as in him hath lien subuerted the faithe and truth of Christ and destroyed Christian menne and Christendome moste horribly sith his false forged supremacie in these our latter daies hath gotten creadite Our faithe and doctrine haue as many yeres on their backes as haue the scriptures whereon thei are grounded as hath the Primitiue Churche and olde aunciente Doctours wherewith in all necessarie pâ—inctes of religion thei agrée throughly It is the Pope and his supremacie and other Poperie that is builded vpon a late and sandie foundation and therefore shortlie to bée subuerted and â—ooted vp Concernyng diuersities of faithes disagréeynges and Schismes whiche M. Dorman so often repeateth he dooeth nothyng els but caste their owne dounge at our heades laiyng the peculiar and proper faultes of the Papistes to our charges accordyng as I haue at large before declared and as I truste sullie satisfied the discreate reader therein That whiche maister Dorman speaketh of franlike heades hath allusion to his maisters case when he forsooke the truthe and reuolted to Poperie â–ª The worlde knoweth wee bee not subtile but are sore encombred with the craftie generatioÌ„ of Papistes The