bungling workmen that were not their crafts masters till the Smith the Carpenter and the painter came euery one in his place and shewed his skill First the Canonists like blacksmiths blew with the bellowes of their Decrees and hammered and heat it in the coles of the Popes Constitutions these smithes were Gratian Pope Iohn Gregory and Boniface with their prentises that serued them Hostiensis Innocent Panormitane and the rest of that profession Next the Carpenters that tooke it in hand were the Friers and Schoolmen which stretched their line ouer it and brought it into better shape Thomas and Scot and Alexander fashioned it with line and leuel they stretched out the line of Method ouer it and with the thred of a Distinction they plained it where it was rough and with the compasses of their Logick and Philosophy made it in the fashion of a man After that the great Lateran Councell about the yeare 1215. had polished it and giuen it strong ioynts to stand vpon not long after the Councels of Constance Basil and another Lateran hewed it ouer again and altered the fashion in certain points touching the Popes authoritie There some Cardinals Senensis and Cusanus thought the head stood too high aboue the shoulders and would haue had it bowed downe a little lower At last they brought it to Trent into the hands of their best workmen as y Absolutissima Trident. Synod Posseuin biblioth select pag. 18. A. they say who mended it from top to toe and set it vp againe when the wormes had welnigh consumed it since which time the third sort of workmen the Painters haue taken it in hand the Iesuits and their fellowes who neuer cease to paint it day and night There is no colour but they haue tried it to make it beautifull Some with varnish and plaister stop vp the crackes which the Sunne shining vpon it hath made that they might not be seene Bellarmine and his associates in that kind stirre all colours together and varnish ouer the smokie and dustie places so skilfully that a man can scarce tell what the colour is Surius and Baronius with other colours ground by Legendaries cast a shadow ouer it for seeming too youthfull but they haue painted a gray beard to a greene head the rest stand by such as are Sixtus Senensis Lindan Staphylus Posseuine like Censors commending the workmanship and flattering the workmen and extolling the idoll against them they call Lutherans and Caluinists Thus at the last haue they polished their Dagon and set it vp before the Lords Arke saue that it may not be forgotten that with some of it they warme themselues and rost their meate as Pardons the Masse and Purgatorie and laugh in their sleeues at such as turne the spit Ah I am warme I haue bin at the fire 6 This is the labor and workmanship that our aduersaries haue bestowed on their religion to set it forth whereby they haue made their Church so seeming Catholicke And indeed we haue alwayes obserued that there be two principall things which draw mens conceits to Papistrie The first is the Name and report that goeth of the Church of Rome while men perswade themselues that a Church so ancient and renowmed in all ages cannot but be the true Church of God The second is the rumour and opinion of our aduersaries learning as if it were vnpossible so learned men should be deceiued and their writings could be answered Neuerthelesse it is easie enough to see the truth through all this if men will consider of things attentiuely For touching the name and shew of the ROMANE CHVRCH it is but an empty sound of words and titles this present Romane being wholly departed in the questions controuerted from the ancient and retaining nothing but the title This should deceiue no man For the true ancient and Apostolicke Church of Rome so much commended by the Fathers and sought to by the world professed another kind of faith then this doth and the same that now we defend against them whereas this is fallen from it and yet skilfully retaining still the same Seate and Title imposeth maruellously vpon the world hereby Isidorus Pelusiota b L. 3. Epist 408. hath a saying that sheweth the likelihood of this In the daies of the Apostles and afterward when the Church florished and laboured as yet of no disease the diuine graces of God went as it were in a ring round about it the holy Ghost administring all things and all the Bishops thereof inciting and turning it towards heauen afterwards it grew diseased and was troubled with faction and then all those things flew away Thus the Church is like a woman fallen from her ancient happinesse and retaining onely some signes thereof She hath the sheathes and caskets where her ornaments lay but the goods themselues she is spoiled of Not through his carelesnesse and negligence that first enriched her but through their naughtinesse that gouerned not things as they should haue done This Doctor well perceiued that a Church may lose the faith and yet retaine her name still and he saw that in his time things fell to decay and the faith of Christ began to be altered To what purpose then should any man respect the name of the Romane Church when the true faith is changed or what do the prerogatiues and royalties of the ancient Church concerne this that is turned to another religion or who regardeth a house of stately building and honorable title or anticke memory since Iohn of Gaunt when the plague hath infected it and theeues possesse it Besides when it was at the best in the Apostles time and after yet other Churches were commended as well and counted as good as it c Meditat. Respons in iute Graecoroman tom 1. p. 449. These are the words of Balsamon The fiue Patriarkes of Rome Alexandria Constantinople Ierusalem and Antioch had identitie of honour d 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and obtained the roome of one head ouer the body that is the holy Churches of God And Nicephorus the Patriarke of Constantinople e Concil Ephesin pag. 307. in an Epistle to Leo the Bishop of Rome saith And we also who haue obtained the name of new Rome being built vpon one and the same foundation of faith the Prophets and Apostles where Christ our Sauiour and God is the corner stone f 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in the matter of faith are nothing behinde the elder Romanes For in the Church of God there is nothing to be reckoned before the rest Wherefore let Saint Paul glory and reioyce in vs also and ioyning new things with old and comparing vs in doctrines and preaching let him glory in vs both alike For we as well as they following his doctrines and institutions wherein we are rooted are confirmed in the confession of our faith wherein we stand and reioice c. So that the Greeke Churches in the East thought themselues equall with Rome and the commendations of the
faith The Answer 1 The Iesuite hauing immediatly before propounded the vnitie of his Romane Church affirming that therein onely the vnitie of faith and concord of the learned is to be found now proceedeth to proue it by shewing the meanes which they haue for the preuenting of discord which he thinketh so all-sufficient that it were impossible there should be any dissention among them The summe of that which he saith is briefly this They which acknowledge one chiefe Pastor to wit the Pope to whose definitiue sentence in all matters they submit themselues cannot possibly dissent But all Catholickes acknowledge this chiefe Pastor and submit themselues to his definitiue sentence Therefore how is it possible they should dissent The second proposition he assumeth as granted though indeed it be vntrue as I will shew the first he proueth thus They cannot dissent who submit themselues to him that hath authoritie and infallibilitie of iudgement But the Pope hath this authoritie and infallibilitie Therefore they which submit themselues to the Pope cannot dissent The second proposition he confirmeth thus We know that to S. Peter and his successors Christ promised the keyes and sayd vpon them as vpon a rocke he would build his Church praying for them that their faith should not faile and bidding them strengthen their brethren and feede his sheepe which importeth this authoritie in ruling and infallibilit it in iudging But the Pope is S. Peters successor The Pope therefore hath this authoritie and infallibilitie This being the summe of his discourse I answer first to that which he assumeth so confidently that all Catholicke men submit themselues to the Popes definitions acknowledging the same to be of infallible truth For whatsoeuer his authoritie and iudgement be yet the Catholickes do not so vniformly as the Iesuite pretendeth submit their opinions to him but contrariwise when occasion is offered they vtterly refuse both him and his definitions and this is so true that he which will denie it must be reputed ignorant of all sense and experience the which manifestly shew that not onely the Christian Catholicks of the Primitiue Church but the Popish Catholickes of the Romish Church this day themselues haue reiected his determinations and held opinion against him Digression 25. Wherein it is shewed that in the Primitiue Church the Popes determination was not thought an infallible truth neither did the Christians for the maintenance of vnitie submit themselues thereunto 2 For many Catholicke Bishops in those dayes dissenting from the Bishop of Rome and refusing his decrees were not thought therefore to breake any vnitie in the Church For Aeneas Syluius who was himselfe a Pope about seuen score yeares since a Epist 301. writeth that before the Councell of Nice euery man liued to himselfe and small respect was had to the Church of Rome b Sozom. l. 3. c. 8. The Bishops of the East withstood Iulius in the cause of Athanasius and charged him that he had done against the lawes of the Church c Theod l. 5. c. 23. Sozom l. 7. c. 11. Flauianus the Patriark of Antioch about his succeeding Meletius in that sea against Paulinus resisted foure Popes one after another when they would haue had him giue roome to Paulinus d Epi. ad Vrsac Valent. Germin apud Baron annal to 3. ann 357. nu 44. Liberius who was Pope in the yeare 360. confessed that Athanasius was separated from the communion of the Church of Rome Yea e Baron ibid. nu 43. 46. the Papists themselues acknowledge this Liberius condemned Athanasius and entred communion with the Arrians which sheweth against all exception that in those dayes the godly Christians did not thinke either that the Pope was the head of vnitie or that all were of the true Church that held communion with him for then the Arrians had bene good Catholickes and Athanasius with all that tooke part with him had bene hereticks which no man dareth say About the yeare 450. f Act. 16. the Councel of Chalcedon wherein were 630. Bishops withstood Leo then Pope of Rome in the question of his supremacie Concerning which matter g Concor Cathol l. 2. c. 20. pag 748. Cusanus a Cardinall beareth witnesse It is manifest saith he that Pope Leo would not in certaine points receiue the constitutions of the Chalcedon Councell specially that the Church of Constantinople should go before the Church of Alexandria but alwayes gainsaid them as some other Popes did after him and yet the decree of the Councell alwayes preuailed Which experience proueth that in those times the Bishops ouer all the world would as occasion serued refuse the Popes iudgement and yet they were counted good Catholickes for all that So likewise in the yeare 418. h Cap. 105. the sixt Councell of Carthage hauing in it 217. Bishops resisted three Popes one after another decreeing things contrary to the authoritie of the Church of Rome as i Contaré sum Concil magis illustr pag. 263. the Papists themselues expound the Councell whereof Cusanus k Vbi supra writeth thus The Councell of Affricke withstood Celestin in that he would do against the Councell of Nice and Celestin replied not that he might do it but alledged for himselfe the Councell though corrupted Which opposition made against the Pope is so apparent that many Papists indeed labour to excuse it but none denie it and l Sic vndique CarthagineÌ„ses patres constringuntur vt elabi nullo modo possint quis iam ferat crassissimae ignoâ—antiae illam vocem in tot tantis patribus vbi illa Augustini reliquorum prudentia Alan Cope dial pag 76. 77. the despitefull speeches of some Papists against S. Austine and the Bishops bewray that they discouer the same resistance made by the Councell against the Pope that I mention 3 Againe in the yeare 167. m Euseb hist l. 5. c. 23. inde Niceph. l. 4. c. 37. inde there arose a contention in the Church about the keeping of Easter whereby the Bishops of the East and West were deuided in which contention the Popes definitiue sentence was not receiued but refused without any offence against the vnitie of the Church For first Polycarpe coming to Anicetus that was Bishop of Rome in his time would not yeeld to him neither could Anicetus perswade Polycarpe to lay by his maner of obseruation n Euseb li. 5. c. 26. saith the story and yet both sides retained vnitie About thirtie yeares after the question was renewed o Cap. 25. and Victor the Bishop of Rome being earnest against the Easterne Bishops excommunicated them But this saith Eusebius pleased them not for they wrote vnto him reprouing him sharply and bitterly as namely Polycrates the bishop of Ephesus and Irenaeus the bishop of Lyons here in the West These had many on their side that stood against the Bishop of Rome and that which afterwards tooke vp the controuersie was not his
vniuersall doctrine of God of Angels of all other creatures specially of man of his first framing of his finall end and of all things pertaining to his nature of his fall by sinne of his reparation by grace of lawes prescribed vnto him of vertues which he ought to imbrace of vices which he ought to eschue of Christ our redeemer his incarnation life and passion and his coming to iudgement of the Sacraments and all other points that anie way pertaine to Christian religion The Answer 1 That the Iesuites Romane Church hath continually held the present faith it now professeth is false and confuted a Sect. 35. Digr 22. 23. alreadie And I wonder he might for shame say it For is any so mad as to beleeue his Popes supremacie his Latine seruice his reall presence hath alway bene visible from the beginning when there is not so much as any mention of them in antiquitie All that religion therfore which the Romane Church maintaineth against vs came in by peece-meale through the faction conueyance of certaine persons which in all ages corrupted the truth and increased the corruptions by degrees till at length they obtained the name of the Romane faith 2 Next whereas he saith it is proued Catholicke in place by this that it hath and alway had some in euery coast that communicate in profession with it we must distinguish the times For in the Primitiue Church and long after the Christian world indeed communicated with the faith professed in the Romane Church but then it was not the same it is now and so the present Church of Rome is not iustified by this communion but condemned rather Afterward the nations of the world ioyned in profession with it likewise as it degenerated and grew vp in corruption but marke how One part being the smaller and obscurer liued in the middest thereof and communicated with no more then was the truth excepting some small errors like b 1 Cor. 3.12 hay or stubble builded on the foundation and this is not properly any communion with the Papacie but with the true Church whereto the Papacie in the Church of Rome grew as a scab or as a disease Another part communicated with it in the errors also as they grew and embraced the Papacie c Apo. 17.2.4.15 13.14 18.9 2. Thess 2.11 but this was the seduced world which the whore of Babylon made drunke with the wine of her fornication and deceiued with strong delusions And yet this communion was not so great but that many famous Churches in the world refused it and departed from it as soone as the alteration into the faith it now holdeth began visibly to appeare as the Churches of Greece and Armenia for example which to this day would neuer communicate with it Maginus d Geogr. descr pag. 166. saith The Greekes long since departed from the Church of Rome and appointed themselues Patriarkes whom they acknowledge to be their heads and not onely the Greekes obey them but all the Prouinces also that follow the Greekes religion Circassia Walachia Bulgaria Moscouia Russia the more part of Pole Mingrelia Brosina Albania Illyricum part of Tartarie Seruia Croatia and all the Prouinces lying vpon the Euxin sea Whereby it is plaine that many famous countries and infinite people neuer allowed of the Romane faith but haue kept possession against it to this day though many reâ—eiued it as in times past many communicated with Arius and Mahomet and yet they are not proued Catholicke thereby 3 To the last point concerning the vniuersall doctrine taught in the Romane Church I answer that it is not the holding of certaine heads and articles of religion which maketh a Church Catholicke but the holding them truly according to the Scripture Which truth being remoued the more is holden the worse and lesse Catholick is the Church that holdeth them For as much therefore as the Romane Church by adding and detracting hath corrupted the vniuersall doctrine of Christian religion and especially the points mentioned by the Iesuite and patched thereunto innumerable abuses errors and superstitions to the certaine damnation of all that beleeue them it is not proued Catholicke by teaching all the doctrine of religion but manifestly Antichristian because it teacheth euery point vntruly § 47. Neither doth it at this day denie any one point of doctrine which in former times was vniuersally receiued for verity or the Catholicke Church The which if anie will take vpon him to denie let him shew and proue first what point of doctrine the Catholicke Romane Church doth deny or hold contrarie to that which by the Church hath bene vniuersally held as we can shew the Protestants do The Answer 1 The Iesuit needed not to haue bidden vs shew the points holden in his Church against that which the Church of Christ vniuersally held in former ages for we name and shew euery point of his faith wherein he dissenteth from vs and proue that it came in contrary to the doctrine of the Church through the conueyance of some therein being neuer vniuersally receiued of all but maintained and aduanced by the power and contention of some against the rest which either resisted it or receiued it doubtfully And I VNDERTAKE TO SHEW THIS IN ANIE QVESTION OF HIS RELIGION THAT HE WILL NAME VNTO ME BY PROVING THE SAME TO BE AGAINST THE SCRIPTVRE FIRST AND THEN CONTRARIE TO THE PRIMITIVE CHVRCH AND FINALLY TAVGHT BY THE SHOOL-MEN AND OTHERS IN THE ROMANE CHVRCH IT SELFE OTHERWISE THEN NOW THE IESVITES AND TRENT COVNCELL DELIVER IT This is enough to answer the present chalenge and I haue performed it in euery question handled in this booke and namely Digress 32. to 42. Digression 49. Obiecting eight points for example wherein the Church of Rome holdeth contrary to that which formerly was holden The conception of the virgin Marie Latine seruice Reading the Scriptures Priests mariage Images Supremacie Communion in one kind Transubstantiation 1 First touching the conception of the virgin Marie which all the ancient fathers beleeued to be in original sin and the elder Schoolmen vniuersally as I shewed vpon another occasion out of Dominicus a Part. 1. in Tho. q. 1. art 8. dub 5. Bannes and b De consecr d. 4 Firmissime nu 11. Turrecremata contrarie to c Sixt. 4. c. Cum prae excelsa Graue nimis in Extrau commun Concil Trid. sess 5. § Declarat tameÌ„ haec Galatin Arcan l. 3 pag. 490. the present beliefe of the Church of Rome 2 Next touching Latin seruice which is vsed in the Church of Rome against all antiquitie and the iudgement of many d 1. Cor. 14. The Apostle saith If an instrument of musicke make no distinction in the sound how shall it be knowne what is piped So likewise you except by the language you vtter words that haue signification how shall it be vnderstood what is spoken For you shall speake in the ayre I will pray and sing with the
of Christs continuall presence no assurance of his holy Spirits infallible assistance yet it is not possible that such a grosse heresie could arise and ouerwhelme the whole world without some resistance The Bishops and Pastors could not be so simple or so vnmindfull of their dutie but they would first note such an euident contrarietie to the ancient and vniuersally receiued faith and noting it would with common consent resist contradict and finally according to S. Paules rule Gal. 1. accurse it If therefore this could not happen nor neuer did at anie time in like case that any such grosse error or heresie did or could arise without noting and resisting what reason can anie one haue to say that this hath happened at Rome and yet can bring no writer that did note the thing the time and person and what opposition was made against it as in all heresies that haue truly sprong vp of new we can do If there could not a little ceremonie be added to the Masse but that it was set downe in historie when and by whom how could the whole substance of the Masse which consisteth in consecration oblation consumption of the sacred hoast be newly inuented and no mention made when where or by whom or that there was such an inuention at all If also historiographers were not afraid to note personall and priuate vices of Popes which they might well thinke those Popes would not willingly haue had published why should they haue feared to haue recorded anie alteration in religion which if it had bin had bene a thing done by themselues publikely in the view of the whole world So that we may well conclude that if Christian religion had since the Apostles time altered in Rome it would haue bene recorded in histories as other such alterations are and if they should now happen would be But no mention being made in anie storie that such an alteration was it is sure no such was at all no such change of religion being at all it is euident that the same faith and religion which was in S Pauls time hath alway continued and is there now that which was there then was the true faith as appeareth by that high commendation which S. Paul hath left written of it therefore that which is there now must needs be the true Catholicke faith and that company which professeth it must needs be the true Catholicke Church The Answer 1 It must be remembred that the point which the Iesuit in this place driueth at is to proue his Romish Church Catholicke that is denying no point of doctrine which in former times was vniuersally receiued of the Catholike Church but holding the very same without any change To proue this he hath here furnished a popular speech well conceited it seemeth by himself and much reported I perceiue by the vulgar of his side and because it fully expresseth the conceit of our countrie Papists touching the antiquitie of their religion and containeth many speeches vsed by them in maintenance of their heresie and omitteth nothing of that which can be said against vs in this point therefore I will answer it from point to point plainly and directly desiring the reader to marke me diligently and intreating my aduersary whosoeuer he be in the cause not to shut his eyes against reason when it is ready to conuince him nor to mistake any thing that I shall say but to apply it and compare it to that which is obiected as all Christian and moderate minded men in pursuite of the truth and peace ought to do 2 The whole is thus contracted There neuer was in times past nor neuer shall be in times present or to come any alteration from the true faith to grosse heresie such as the Roman religion is supposed to be but foure things fall out withall 1. Some space of time may be shewed in which the said heresie was not visibly known 2. The time may be assigned when it began to rise and the truth to faile 3. The persons are recorded that brought it in 4. The Bishops and people are knowne that note it resist lament and curse it But there is no record extant that any of these things happened to the faith of the present Church of Rome Ergo It is the ancient Catholicke faith without any change I answer that both the Propositions are false The first because many times the truth hath bene changed into error where the circumstances mentioned cannot be giuen The second because in many things holden by the Church of Rome at this day we can out of good records assigne the time of the alteration with the circumstances This my answer I will apply particularly to all that the Iesuite saith as it lieth in order and so confirme it reducing euery thing to one of the Propositions whereto it belongeth 3 First he requireth vs to shew some space of time wherein the Romane Church was not visibly knowne euer since Christ as he can shew many hundred yeares wherein our Church was not This demand is satisfied already in the 47. sect and shall be further answered in that which followeth where that which he saith to proue it is disproued And though the Protestants confesse their Church to haue bene inuisible as I haue expounded Digression 17. yet that will do the Iesuite no good because we obiect more against his Church then so which obiection he may easily assaile with bragges and confidence but can neuer answer with truth and good diuinitie as shall appeare 4 Next he biddeth vs shew when the Romane Church failed in the profession of the ancient faith which once it had Rom. 1.8 and who began the new wherto I answer that these two circumstances when and by whom may be shewed in diuers points which is sufficient to disproue all the rest See below nu 8. inde where I name both the time and persons that changed some points which being so there is no reason why the remainder of that religion the authors whereof are vnknowne should be iustified vnder pretence that we shew not the precise circumstances of the alteration for we giue sound and sufficient reason why we need not do it and to prepare the Iesuite and his partakers to the hearing thereof I propound a Plutarch that famous probleme which in times past the Greekes debated so curiously The ship Argos wherein Iason sailed for the golden fleece at his returne the voiage being ended was laid vp in the road for a monument where decaying by little and little they alwaies peeced it anew where it wore away till in the end the whole substance of the old vessell was gone and nothing remained thereof but onely the reparations successiuely made in the roome of the old Now the question was this whether this ship say it were Saint Peters to gratifie the Iesuite were the same that he sailed in when he liued or another new one diuers from it And whether my wise Athenian could precisely tell when
flesh of Christ § 52. Fourthly the Protestants Church is not Apostolike because they cannot deriue their pedegree lineally without interruption from the Apostles as the Romane Church can from S. Peter but are enforced to acknowledge some other as Luther or Caluin or some such from whom mediatly or immediatly they haue receiued by succession the Preachers of their faith Luther and Caluin themselues being not sent of anie to teach this new faith nor succeeding lawfully to anie Apostolike Bishop or Pastor but being as Optatus Mileuitanus said lib. 2. contra Parmen Victor the Donatist an hereticke was Filij sine patre discipuli sine magistro Children without a father scholers without a maister Or as S. Cyprian lib. 1. Epist writeth of Nouatus Nemini succâ—dentes à seipsis Episcopi ordinati sunt Succeeding to none were ordained Bishops of themselues The Answer 1 Our answer is that the succession required to make a Church Apostolicke must be defined by the doctrine and not by the place or persons that is to say they must be reputed the Apostles successors which beleeue the Apostles doctrine although they haue not this outward succession of Pastors visibly following one another in one place throughout all ages as the Iesuite saith it is in the Romane Church For Saint Paul a Ephes 2.20 telleth the Ephesians they are built vpon the foundation of the Apostles and Prophets in respect of their calling to the knowledge of the Gospel and yet they had not lineally as the Iesuite meaneth it descended from the Prophets And Nazianzene saith b Laud. Athan. Succession in godlinesse is properly to be accounted succession For he that holdeth the same doctrine is also partaker of the same succession as he that is against the doctrine must be reputed to be also out of the succession Which being granted the Iesuites discourse about succession is soone answered To the same effect speaketh his owne c D. 4. Non est facile Canon They are not the children of the Saints that sit in their places but which do their workes Yea the Iesuites confesse this For Posseuine d Not. verbi Dei pag. 328. ad interrog 11. writeth that the true Church is called Apostolicke not onely for the succession of Bishops from the Apostles but also for the consanguinitie of doctrine And Gregory of Valenza e Tom. 3. pag. 141. proprietas 4. telling why the Church is called Apostolicke in the Nicene Creed giueth onely three reasons First because it began in the Apostles next because by them it was spred all ouer the world thirdly because it still followeth their faith and authoritie Waldensis f Tom. 1. doctrinal l. 2. art 2. cap. 18. saith The Apostles filled the whole Church with wholsome doctrine and in that respect the whole Catholicke Church is also called Apostolicke By all which it is plaine that for the being of an Apostolicke Church it is sufficient if it hold the Apostles faith though it want the Iesuites succession mentioned 2 Whence it followeth that although it were granted the Romane Church could shew a perpetual succession of Prelates without interruption from S. Peter which the Iesuit saith may be shewed but g See digress I deny yet were it not thereby proued Apostolike vnlesse these Prelates had also retained S. Peters doctrine that the reader may see all other marks of the Church must be tried by the doctrine and that the Iesuits succession and vnitie and vniuersality proue nothing vnlesse the true faith concurre therewith 3 Whence it followeth again that it is no disaduantage to the Protestant Churches if holding the Apostles doctrine they want externall succession of place persons such as the Iesuite boasteth of because the Apostolicknesse of the Church is not to be defined by it but wheresoeuer the true faith contained in the Scriptures is professed and embraced there is the whole and full nature of an Apostolicke Church 4 And so I answer the Iesuites discourse in particular that we can deriue our faith from the Apostles and that without interruption in that to this day it was neuer interrupted though such as succeeded visibly in bishops thrones did not alway professe it it is sufficient that their malice could neuer extinguish it and the professors and teachers thereof liued in the Romane Church it selfe which beside all other testimonies we know by this that it is the faith of the Scriptures which cannot be extinguished but groweth in the middest of all her enemies 5 And touching Luther and Caluin I answer Touching the calling of Luther that whatsoeuer is said against them dependeth vpon another point which is the faith that they taught For if that were the truth theÌ„ no doubt they were sent of God to teach it we hearing them receiued it of them no otherwise then Gods faithful people are bound to receiue the Gospell of their Pastors And whereas he saith they succeeded no Apostolick Bishop neither had any calling to preach that new faith I answer that for the externall succession whereof I haue spoken we care not it is sufficient that in doctrine they succeeded the Apostles and Primitiue Churches and those faithfull witnesses which in all ages since embraced the same in persecution though they succeeded not in that open manner that was vsed afore heresie and persecution grew And albeit the Romane Church would not heare them yet had they a lawfull calling First inwardly from God who stirred them vp gaue them gifts directed them by his spirit and blessed their labor then outwardly in the Church of Rome it selfe where they were created Doctors of Diuinity and Pastors to teach the people as they were baptized by vertue whereof they might lawfully preach afterward that which by the Scriptures they found to be the truth and did lineally succeed the true Pastors of the Church that liued before them If it be obiected that hauing their calling in the Church of Rome it will follow thereupon that only the Church of Rome is the true Church this is easily answered by denying the consequence For the Church of God and the Papacie were mingled together and were both called by one name the church of Rome by reason that in diuers things that were good and indifferent they communicated So that euen in the Papacie many of the things of Gods Church remained as the Scripture Baptisme and these callings which the Pope and his Clergie occupying did as pirates that occupie another mans ship and his goods therein and therefore conferring baptisme and callings to diuers persons that afterwards forsooke the Pope the said persons notwithstanding rightly inherited them as the true Churches goods which the Papacie vsurped And whereas the Iesuite saith they were not sent to preach this new faith I answer him that this new faith as he styleth it is the true faith therfore euen that sending which they had bound them to preach it though at the first it reuealed it not
Church though no man deny but that is needfull for the shewing and teaching of the rule to all that shall be saued expounding the said teaching of the ministerie wherby the faithfull are directed in the Church But he hath not proued the Church to be alway visible to the world nor those foure to be the Notes of the Church He hath said it but not proued it as appeareth by my answer 2 All which being considered his demands are soone and shortly answered that the Protestants admit the authority and doctrine of the Church though they thinke not the Papacie to be it nor the authoritie thereof to be aboue the Scripture And the grounds wherupon they perswade themselues to haue the sauing faith are so infallible that all the Papists in the world cannot cōfute them And our title to the true Church is sound when our aduersaries haue smattered and wrangled against it what they can for the doctrine of the Scripture which in all points we professe beleeue proue it And albeit those foure One Holy Catholicke and Apostolicke be not the markes of the Church but certaine qualities therein yet we haue them at least for anie thing the Iesuite hath said to the contrarie all whose discourse against vs pretending the want of these things among vs I haue fully answered in their proper places and retorted vpon himselfe whereby the iudicious reader may be satisfied And therefore when we say ours is the true faith we brag not but maintaine and auouch our lawfull title since as S. Austin saith the same is not to be found but in the bellie of the true Church which we are Whereupon we aduise all Papists whatsoeuer to renounce the Papacie if they will hold the truth and be saued For according to the saying of the same Austin afore-cited whosoeuer is separated from this bellie of the Church must needs speake false because out of the true Church there is neither true preaching nor lawfull sending such as should preach and I haue manifestly shewed that the Papacie is not the true Church but a disease that by the faction of some grew vnto it 3 Thus the whole discourse of this Section is briefly answered But where he saith our religion sprang vp of late the first founder being Martin Luther an apostata Frier a man knowne by his writings words deeds and death to haue bene a notable euill liuer this must be a little more stood vpon because it is the burden of euery song among the Papists And first it is to no purpose to say our religion sprang vp of late in Luther vnlesse our euidence whereby we shew it to agree with the Scripture and to haue bene taught in the Church of Rome it selfe many hundred yeares afore Luther was borne can be disproued Next we graunt Luther was a Frier and obtaining the knowledge of the truth renounced the profession which was no other apostasie or fault in him then it was in S. Paule when he renounced the profession of a Pharisee and became an Apostle both the professions being hypocrisie saue that of the Frier was of a deeper tincture as I haue shewed Digress 45. Then concerning his writings the Iesuite is no competent iudge For woe to him and all his Church if Luthers writings be good And therefore let them be examined by the Scripture the touchstone of all mens writings not by the witles preiudice of idle companions that neuer read them And if they containe some particular things that deserue reproofe yet what disgrace is that to the substance of his writings What fathers writing is so pure but it containeth some error Yea I challenge the Iesuit let him name if he can one writer of his owne side old or new Schooleman or Iesuite but some or other in the Church of Rome will except against something he writ Thomas Caietan Bellarmine and Baronius are controlled yea in the later editions the Councell of Trent hath purged in a manner all writers which maketh it cleare that some errors in Luthers bookes disaduantage vs no more then the errors purged and espied in their owne books disaduantage the Papists And yet the things that are most excepted against are no errors but the ancient truth maintained against Popish innouation And let the words of Erasmus a man able to iudge by a Antididag p. 58. Sur. cōment p. 288. Staplet discours p. 159. the Papists owne confession determine this matter b Epist ad Cardin Mogent He saith It is obserued of a truth that these men the Papists condemne many things in Luthers bookes as hereticall which in Austin and Bernard are read for godly and good Diuinity and he addeth That he seeth this the best men are least offended at his writings The which is most true it being their ordinary practise for the hatred of our persons to raile vpon that which by their owne confession the ancient fathers held before vs. So c Hosiand hist eccl cent 16. p. 837 Andreas Masius in the company of diuers acknowledged there was more Diuinitie in one page of Luther then sometimes in a whole booke of some father Let his writing therefore rest and come to his life and death Digression 54. Containing a briefe narration touching the life and death of Martin Luther with the incredible reports thereof made by his aduersaries And shewing how sundry Popes in the Church of Rome haue liued and died worse then he supposing all reports were true 4 In speaking of this matter that standeth altogether vpon witnesses I must put the reader in mind of a speech of Bellarmines d Not. eecl c. 14. §. Sed respondeamus That it is the part of a foole rather to beleeue Caluin and Illyricus touching ancient histories whereat they were not present then Bernard Bonauenture and Antonine that were present Let this law be kept then that Surius Lindan Pontacus and other railing Papists that were not present at Luthers life and death be not credited against them that liued with him saw him die and if any will beleeue them let him be the Iesuites foole Now touching his life Melancthon that was his companion and liued with him hath written it and commended it to say no more And Erasmus that was familiar with him e L. 11. Ep. 1. ad Card. Eborac in a certain Epistle to Cardinall Wolsey giueth testimony that his life was approued with great consent of all men And this saith he is no small preiudice that the integritie of his manners is so great that his verie enemies can finde nothing which they may calumniate As indeed to this day nothing can be produced against him that is substantiall They clamour of his doctrine because it was against them and produce some vehement speeches which his aduersaries by their iniuries prouoked him vnto as Saint Hierome often times vseth the like vehemency but what is that to his conuersation Let them shew his life to haue bene led otherwise then became
thought this a fit course Dionysius Alexandrinus h Niceph. l. 6. c. 8. said of himselfe that he vsed somtime to be occupied in reading the writings and treatises of heretickes though it something polluted his mind with touching their vncleane opinions because he reaped this profit therby that he might the easilier refell them and the more execrate detest them If any will take vpon him to confute me the lawes of Christian conference specially in the points of faith bind him 1. to do it temperately abstaining from railing and reproaching 2. perspicuously that I may certainly know his meaning 3. honestly that what I say be faithfully set downe and what I proue my sayings by be not dissembled For I affirm nothing that concerneth the cause but I proue it either in the text by reason or in the margent by authoritie which I would not haue dissembled or according to an vsuall trade taken vp of late among them traduced with taunts and outcries as if it were false alledged vntill it appeare to be so indeed Which if he performe I shall thinke my lot the better to haue met with so profitable an aduersarie And so wishing the good Reader that with loue to all men and reuerence to Gods truth and care to leade a sanctified life he would pursue the cause of religion I take my leaue beseeching our Lord Christ by the power of his spirit to make way for the truth in all our hearts Amen A Table of the seuerall matters and questions handled and disputed in this Booke The first number signifieth the Section noted with this marke §. The other following the first signifieth the numbers of that Section VVhere the number is but one there the whole Section is meant THe true faith is absolutely necessarie to saluation 1. 1. No part of our faith stands vpon tradition 1. 2. Infolded faith is not sufficient without knowledge 2. 1. 7. There is a Rule whereby the true faith may be knowne 3. 1. This Rule is not visible and knowne to all men without exception 3. 2. The properties belonging to the rule of faith 4. The Scriptures translated into English are the rule of faith and how 5. The true reason why Papists deny the Scriptures to be the rule 5. 7. 8. The Scripture ought to be translated into the mother tongue that the people may reade it 5. 9. Touching the certaintie and truth of our translations and how we know it 6. The last resolution of our faith is into the authoritie of the Scripture 6. 9. 10. Our English translation is purer then that which the Papists vse 6. 11. The obscuritie of the Scripture disableth it not from being the rule 7. 1. All matters needfull are plainly laid downe in the Scripture 7. 3. Why the Papists pretend the obscuritie of the Scripture 7. 7. Whence it is that the Scripture is obscure 8. 1. The Scripture is vnderstood by it selfe and how 8. 1 2 3. How we are assured of the true sence of the Scripture which is it among many sences 8. 7 8. The true cause why men erre in expounding the Scripture 8. 13. Our faith is built on the Scripture not on the Church 8. 17. The Scripture is perfect containing all things 9. How I know this Scripture to be the very word of God 9. 5. All things needfull are fully comprehended in the Scripture 9. 9. The Papists hold that the sence of the Scripture varieth with the time 9. 11. Againe touching the errors of men in expounding the Scripture 10. The place of 2. Tim. 3.16 proueth the all-sufficiencie of the Scripture 11. How priuat men priuat cōpanies may see the truth against a multitude 12. By the Church the Papists meane nothing but the Pope 13. 2. Whether and how the Church of God may erre 14. 1. Tim. 3.15 expounded how the Church is the pillar of truth 15. The Protestants do not say that the true Church at any time failed was not 17. 1. The state of the question touching the visiblenesse of the Church 17. 2. The Protestants say no more touching the inuisiblenesse of the Church then the Papists themselues in effect do 17. 3. The arguments are answered whereby the Church is proued to be alway visible 18. inde The true faith is a sufficient marke of the Church 24. 2. The arguments against this are answered 26. to 31. 1. Ioh. 4.1 proueth that it is lawfull to examine the teaching of the Church 31. One Holy Catholicke and Apostolicke are not the marks of the Church 32. What the vnitie of the Church properly is 33. 1. The Protestant Churches want not true vnitie 33. 2. Gods true Church in all ages hath had some contentions 33. 4. inde The Protestant Churches haue the true meanes of vnitie 34. 1. What kind of vnitie the Papists haue 34. 1. 2. The Church of Rome vseth the Scriptures most despitefully fiue wayes 35. 3. The present Roman Church is departed frō the ancient primitiue faith 35. 9. The Church of Rome wanteth vnitie and liueth in manifest contention demonstrated 35. 16. The Popes authority was not receiued of old as the foundation of vnity 36. 2. The very Papists themselues do not yeeld to the Popes determinations 36. 5. The Popes supremacie is no sufficient meanes to preserue vnitie 36. 10. The places of Mat. 16.18 Luk. 22.32 Ioh. 21.15 handled at large shewed to make nothing toward the Popes authoritie ouer the Church 36. 11. inde The Primitiue Church acknowledged not the Popes supremacy foure experiences 36. 26. The Pope may erre euen iudicially and be an hereticke 36. 32. It is vnpossible to proue that the hope is S. Peters true successor 36. 36. No certainty among the Papists how the Popes supremacy is proued 36. 39. A place of Cyprian alledged for the supremacie answered 37. 1 2. The Protestants Church is truly holy and how 38. 1. Certaine words of M. Luther expounded 38. 2. Outward holinesse no proper and essentiall marke of the Church 38. 3. The vnholines wickednes of the Roman Church demōstrated 38. 4. inde What Saints the Protestants haue in their Church 39. 1. Canonization of Saints by the Pope a ridiculous conceit 39. 2. 3. The doctrine of the Protestants induceth not to libertie 40. 1. inde Fasting how the Protestants and how the Papists vse it 40. 2. Auricular confession or shrift iustly reiected 40. 6. Necessitie of good workes taught and defended by the Protestants 40. 11. Touching the merit of workes 40. 12. Touching mans power in keeping the commandements 40. 18. Whether all the good workes we do be sinne 40. 22. The distinction of sinne into mortall and veniall 40. 26. Satisfaction how taught by the Protestants and how by the Papists 40. 28. A short view of long Pardons 40. 35. The doctrine of Iustification by Faith only expounded and defended 40. 37. Predestination how holden by the Protestants 40. 43. What is the roote of Contingencie 40. 44. Freewill and Gods
all things is infallible which if it were granted yet were it too short to proue that therefore this Church were the rule of faith For euery infallible thing whose teaching is most true is not yet in the ordinance of God set apart to instruct vs. As the Angels of heauen for example are not the rule of our faith though a Fr. Suarez in Tho. to 1. disp 42. sect 1. they haue all the graces and glorie that a creature can haue and consequently the grace of infallibilitie Let this be noted in the first place 2 But yet the doctrine and teaching of the Church is not in all points infallible and most true neither meaning this doctrine not of the Scriptures but of the Churches ministery in propounding and following the same for in her ministery and manners she may and doth erre as shall appeare in my answer to the Iesuites reasons throughout this section But first the question must be made plaine For to say as he doth here and euery where in this question that the teaching of the vniuersall Catholick Church is infallible not subiect to error is an improper speech not incideÌ„t to the question because that Church comprehendeth all the triumphant Church in heauen which neither can be vsed neither do we charge it with error but confesse it to be b Ephes 5.27 glorious not hauing spot or wrinkle or any such thing All the question is of that part of the Catholick Church which dwelleth here on earth professing the name of Christ and liuing in warfare against the world and Satan called the Church militant Which so distinguished we hold to be subiect to error both in manners and doctrine And the Iesuite of necessitie by the vniuersall Church must vnderstand onely this part thereof because this part onely is apt to teach vs and hath ministerie in her hands or else he disputeth confusedly not distinguishing the termes of the question 3 This being noted now I come to the discourse which may all be concluded in this syllogisme that we may the better iudge of it That 1. vnto which Christ hath promised his owne presence and the presence of his spirit for euer to the worlds end 2. which hath commission from God to teach all nations 3. which all men are commaunded to heare in all things 4. they that heare it are warranted as if they heard Christ himselfe 5. they that heare it not are threatned as if they despised Christ himselfe that is free from error and the doctrine thereof in all things is infallible But such is the Church that concerning it Christ hath 1. promised 2. giuen commission 3. commanded 4. warranted and 5. threatned as is aforesaid Therefore the Church is free from error and the doctrine thereof in all things is infallible This is the summe of all this section whereto I answer by denying both propositions and the reason is for that they consist of Scripture falsly expounded and applyed and this my answer I set downe more particularly in that which followeth wherein I will examine euery text as it is alledged and make it plain that neuer a one of them proueth the conclusion 4 The first place is Mat. 28.20 Lo I am with you alway to the worlds end But I answer 1. this was a personall promise made onely to the Apostles and so cannot be extended to all the Church if we will speake of the words properly according to their immediate sence 2. To whomsoeuer it belongeth the meaning is c Iansen concord Eâ—ang cap. 149. that howsoeuer his bodily presence ceassed yet his prouidence should neuer faile to preserue comfort them in all their troubles and helpe them in all their actions and by degrees so enlighten them also that they should not perish in their ignorance but be led forward to more perfection This must needes be granted to be all that is meant First because Christ is not absent from his people euery time they fall into an error but remaineth with them still for all that either forgiuing it or reforming it Secondly this promise notwithstanding yet afterward d Gal 2.11 vide August de Baptism cont Donat. l. 2. c. 1. de agon Christian c. 30. Thom. in ep ad Gal. c. 3. lect 3. Peter one to whom the promise was made erred against the truth of the Gospell and was therefore by Paul rebuked and resisted to his face which thing could not haue fallen out if this promise had exempted the Church from all error Thirdly if it priuiledge the whole Church from error because it is made to it then consequently it priuiledgeth the particular Churches Pastors and beleeuers therein because it is made to them likewise but experience sheweth these latter may erre and therefore the meaning must needs be as I haue said Fourthly e See §. it is a ruled case among the Papists that the Pope may erre which could not be if these words of Christ meant the Church of Rome and that infallible iudgment which the Iesuite talketh of As for his glosse vpon the words that Christ in them should promise his continuall presence not for a while then nor for a while now but for euer it is altogether either idle and inept For he can name no Protestant that euer thought Christ was at any time absent but we all constantly beleeue he alway was is and shall be with his Church to the end 5 The second and third places are much like the first Iohn 14.16 I will pray the Father saith Christ and he shall giue you another comforter that he may abide with you for euer And Iohn 16.13 When he is come which is the Spirit of truth he will leade you into all truth But I answer two things First these words are properly extended to the Apostles promising f Act. 2.4 that which was performed immediatly after Christs ascention and ought not to be stretched any further Which being so they conclude somewhat for them but little for the Church because euerie grace belongeth not to the Church in all ages that was giuen the Apostles Secondly applying them to the Church also the meaning is that the holy Ghost should neuer forsake it but perseuere in teaching it all truh which is simply necessary to saue it according as the Church is able to learne it which he doth by meanes of the Scripture though not at all times alike perfectly but so as he endueth it with all holines and yet many sins are found in it This interpretation must needs be allowed for three causes first the Apostle saith of himselfe and the Church g 1. Cor. 13.9 Now we know but in part and prophesie in part Which were not true if these words of Christ had secured the Church in all things and in euery truth for the part cometh short of the whole Secondly this promise belongeth as well to one Apostle as another yea h 1. Ioh 2.20 to all the faithfull as wel as to the
ministerie thereof may be a condition subordinate for the obtaining of that which is the rule As a Ioh. 4.29.39 the woman of Samaria was a good meanes to bring her countrimen to Christ that knew him not and yet their beleefe was not built on her b ver 42. but on that which she reuealed to them And c Ier. 6.16 God biddeth vs by his Prophet Stand by the wayes and behold and aske for the old way which is the good way though in the meane time the persons to be asked are our direction no further then while they point to the old way And the Prophet biddeth d Hag. 2.12 Aske the Priests concerning the law and saith e Mal. 2.7 The Priests lips should preserue knowledge and they should seeke the law at his mouth for he is the Angell of the Lord of hoasts yet these Priests many times spake vntruly being deceiued themselues and deceiuing others And so may it happen to the Pastors of the Church 2 All which notwithstanding the Church abideth still the same that Saint Paul calleth it the pillar and ground of truth in that the truth is no where else to be found Which that I may shew the beter it is to be noted that f Iul. Pol. Onomast lib. 8. pag. 454. Scol Aristoph Nub. Rosin antiq Rom. l. 8 c. 2. Alex. ab Alexand. genial dierum l. 6. c. 23. in old time the Gentiles vsed to write their lawes in tables and so hang them vp on pillars of stone that the people might reade them as Proclamations are nailed to posts in market townes and somtime g Phauorin Hesych Lexic verbo 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 they whited the pillar and so wrote the lawes vpon it h Lexic decem Rhet. Harpocration saith they reared vp straight pillars of stone and so wrote their lawes vpon them And it was also an ordinary thing that they had other pillars like the Pasquill in Rome i Eustach Il. λ. Suid. verbo 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 whereupon whosoeuer listed hung their Epigrams or libels that they would haue knowne Now the Apostle describing the Church likeneth it to one of these pillars whose vse was no more but to shew that which hung thereon it selfe not being the law but that whereupon the law was hung For so the true faith written in the tables of the Scripture whereunto the world will giue no testimonie is fastened to the Church as to a stately pillar and strong supporter that there it may be seene and holden out vnto vs. Hence the Iesuite can challenge no more but that the Church is vnto vs a witnesse and vpholder of the faith and alway preserueth it which we denie not but in the meane time he forgetteth that it is one thing to hold out the rule and another to be the rule it selfe and he that saith the Church is the supporter of truth doth not say withall that the Pastors can neuer erre or faile in deliuering any part thereof The Apostle saith the former but the Iesuite onely beside the text affirmeth the latter 3 This exposition must needs be granted for foure reasons first it is called the pillar of truth in no other sence then k Eph. 5.27 elsewhere it is called glorious without spot or blemish or blame but it is certaine that the puritie there mentioned is mingled with some imperfection therefore it is also certain this vpholding of the truth is not free froÌ„ all error Secondly Paul in this place sendeth not Timothy to learne of the Church which he should do if the Iesuits conceit were sound but l vers 14.15 wisheth him to teach the Church out of the Scriptures that so it might be the pillar of truth Thirdly that which the Apostle saith in these words is true of euery particular Church but of euery particular church it is not true that it caÌ„not erre for we see they may as did m Act. 20.30 Apoc. 2.4 this of Ephesus concerning which the Apostle saith here it is the pillar and ground of truth Fourthly if this place proue that the Church cannot erre in any thing but of it all men must learne the infallible truth then seeing o Bellar. de verbo Dei l. 3. c. 5. Greg. de ValeÌ„t coÌ„ment Theo. tom 3. disp 1. q. 1. assert 3. the Papists hold their Prelates and Pastors to be the Church I demand what is that which must teach them for the Church doth not seeing they are the Church themselues 4 Or if the Iesuite dote vpon his owne exposition then let him cal to mind how other Papists haue expounded before him p Staphyl Apol. part 1. Sâ—apl his translat pag 50. who say The Apostle calleth the Church the pillar and ground of truth signifying by the word ground the largenesse of Christendome by the word pillar the continuall smooth and not interrupted succession of the Apostles and their schollers vpon whoÌ„ all truth is builded Which exposition differing from this of the Iesuites may giue him occasion to looke better into the text and at least mistrust his collections therfrom till he haue conferred with his fellowes For vpon the reckoning it will fall out that vntill the Friers and Iesuites of late began to hammer the Scriptures there was neuer any that out of them would deliuer his conclusion but the contrary The Apostles writings are the pillars and supporters of our faith saith q Lib. 3. c. 1. Irenaeus The Gospell is the gound and stay of the Church saith r Lib. 3 c. 11. the same Irenaeus The truth is the pillar and ground of the Church saith Å¿ Hom. in hunc loc Chrysostome The diuine Scriptures must teach who hath the true Church These are the proofes these are the foundations these are the grounds of our cause saith t De vnit Eccl. cap. 16. Austin 5 The words of Austin alledged by the Iesuite are good but they had bene better if he had not left out the beginning for thus they lie u Contra. Crescon gram lib. 1. cap. 33. For somuch as the holy Scripture cannot deceiue vs let him who feareth lest the obscuritie of this question concerning the baptisme of the Donatists should deceiue him enquire that Churches iudgment of it which the holy Scripture without all doubtfulnes doth demoÌ„strate Wherin Aust saith not the church is the rule or the Church cannot erre but onely as the Iesuite himselfe noteth that the iudgement therof should be inquired His meaning is that in the question of rebaptizing because in Cresconius his suppositioÌ„ the Scripture said nothing of it such as were doubtful might ask the iudgmeÌ„t of the true Church there they should learn Cresconius to be in an error Wherein the Iesuit shal find vs to consent with Austin for doth he think we allow not the Church her ministery or that we silence her from bearing witnesse to the truth or that we turne away the people
from going and enquiring to her Nay rather we aduise all people desirous of the truth to follow Austins counsell howsoeuer such as the Iesuite is to make vs odious giue out the contrary For Austin first attributeth the perfection of truth to the Scripture onely Secondly then he alloweth vs to go to no Church but that which from the Scripture is demonstrated to be a true Church Thirdly he saith neuer a word that the Church should be the rule or free from all error but onely that they should enquire her iudgement which in that questioÌ„ at that time he knew to be sound though possible he were not ignorant that x Euseb hist l. 7. c. 5. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. many famous Churches formerly had not bene so but had decreed the very error that he now confuted Lastly y Aduer Cresc l. 2. c. 21. within fiue leaues of the place alledged he hath these words The Church is subiect to Christ and therefore may not preferre her selfe before him for he alway iudgeth rightly but Ecclesiasticall iudges being but men for the most part are deceiued Let the Iesuit yeeld vs thus much and he shall find himselfe a great deale short of that he reckoneth for the certaintie of his Churches teaching and that Austin maketh not the Church the rule as he would haue it but a meanes to direct vs in things obscure by the Scriptures whose iudgement is to be followed vpon their authoritie and onely so long as she determineth according to them Which point I feare the Iesuite will mislike 6 Yet thus the Church it selfe teacheth vs. For what Bishops what Pastors what Councels what men what Churches haue not erred though z Mal. 2.7 Eph. 4 11. Heb. 13.17 God haue bidden vs enquire their iudgement and seek vnto them The Papists will say particular Churches may erre but how did the Councels of Ephesus Seleucia and Remino misse it a The Bishops at Ephesus were 132. at Selculeucia 16â— at Ariminum 400 whereof aboue 300. were Catholicke Bishops where the flower of all the Christian Pastours of the world were assembled whereof b Dial. aduer Lucifer Ierome complained The whole world groned and wondred to see it selfe Arrian Which imperfection hath hung so fast vpon all Councels and Churches that c Ep. ad Proco Nazianzen writing to a friend of his saith He neuer saw any councel haue a good end And d Adu profanâ— nou c. 4. Vincentius confesseth that not onely some portion of the Church but the whole Church it selfe is blotted with some new contagion So that the very Papists themselues some of them conuinced by experience and the Churches owne confession are driuen in the point to come home vnto vs. For thus writeth e Turrecrem sum de Eccl l. 2 c. 91. l. 3. c. 60 a learned Cardinall That which we say the Church cannot erre in faith or manners must thus be taken according to the doctrine of the fathers that God doth so assist his Church to the end of the world that the true faith shall neuer faile out of the same For to the worlds end there shall be no time wherein some though not all shall not haue true faith working by loue Doth not the Iesuite see here that though all of them lay downe the conclusion that the Church cannot erre yet some of them expound it so that they come roundly home to vs and do as good as deny it againe Therefore let the Iesuite iarre no more about this matter but submit himselfe to the Cardinals exposition and so we will both sit down friendly together at his feete awaiting till either he or some other speake Protestant againe and so agree vs in the rest of the questions that are depending § 16. The first condition therefore of the rule of faith to wit to be infallible agreeth to the teaching of the Church Now that the doctrine and teaching of the Church hath the other conditions to wit that it is such as may be easily knowne to all sorts of men and such as may vniuersally teach them in all points will easily be seene after I shall set downe and proue that this Church is alway visible and further what particular companie of men be those which be this true Church For hauing by this meanes assigned a particular companie of men who according as I haue proued are in all points taught by the holy Ghost and are by God his appointment in stead of Christ in all points to teach vs the infallible truth there will no doubt remaine but that their teaching is such as may be vnderstood of all since they are liuing men that can conforme their teaching to the capacitie of all sorts and such as may sufficiently in all points instruct vs in the right faith that the appointment and ordinance of God by which as I haue proued they are ordained to teach vs in all points may not be in vaine and frustrate of the effect intended by him Let vs therefore first see whether the Church or companie of faithfull men of which I haue alreadie spoken be alway visible or not The Answer 1 The first condition of the rule of faith to be infallible agreeeth not to the teaching of the Church because the Iesuite by the Church meaneth a See Digress 16. nu 4 onely the Pope and all Papists hold b Propterea enim sedes Apostolica seu Romana Ecclesia infallibilis dicitur quia is qui prae est illi authoritateÌ„ habet per se infallibilem Gr. de Val. comment Theol tom 3. p. 247. D. the infalliblnes therof consists in his authority that caÌ„not erre and nothing else Neither can he assigne any company or state of men whereby she may be supposed to manifest her teaching but the same may be subiect to error and in experience hath erred as we see in Councels and Doctors and all other meanes which she hath vsed in teaching vs except that of the Scriptures onely as I haue shewed 2 Next though it were granted to be infallible and the next also yeelded which the Iesuite now beginneth to take so much paines to proue that it were both easie to be knowne and could teach vs vniuersally in all points yet were it not proued thereby to be the rule because there is more required to the rule then this as I haue shewed and this it borroweth from the Scripture as the Moone doth her light from the Sun which sheweth against all exception that the Scripture it selfe is the rule and of greater authoritie then the Church in that these things are originally in the Scripture from whence the Church but borroweth whatsoeuer she partaketh thereof though c Igitur quicquid habet boni aâ— perficit Scriptura quicquid pleni ac solidi id habet ab Ecclesia quae implet eum qui implet omnia pag. 434. Ecclesia aâ—unt coÌ„stituta est vt tertimonium exhibeat diuinis libris quis
doth it is no good marke they say the contrary it is a marke indeed a chiefe marke a proper and very cleare note of the Church a note ingrauen and perpetually cleauing to it Let him therefore be well aduised how he crosse his fellowes lest his so doing impaire the credit of his Churches vnitie and make his reader suspect that he is labouring to confute a matter which his owne conscience telleth him is most true 3 For our Sauiour saith in the g Ioh. 10.27 Gospel My sheepe heare my voyce Which teacheth vs euen by h Bellarm. de not Eccl. c. 2. the confession of our aduersaries that wheresoeuer the voyce of Christ which is the true faith soundeth there consequently are the elect his sheepe that heare it And if his sheepe be knowne to be there by this then is the Church also knowne hereby for wheresoeuer the sheep of Christ liue there is the Church in as much as these two are neuer diuided The true faith and doctrine of the Scriptures then being notes to teach vs where the elect be are proued hereby to be a sufficient marke of the Church because wheresoeuer the elect liue there is the Church of God Again Christ i mat 18.20 saith Where two or three are gathered together in my name there am I in the midst of them This teacheth vs two things by k Bellarm. de notis Eccl. c. 2. the Papists owne confession First that the true faith is a signe where Christ is which is all one as if they had said it is a signe where Christs church is for Christ his church are neuer asunder but l Mat. 28.20 he abideth with it for euer Next that it is a note of the Church if such teach it as are gathered together by lawfull ordination and successiō which is as much as we desire for it is neuer taught by any other and it quite ouerthroweth the Iesuites conceit for he thinketh his Romane Church-men to haue lawful ordination and succession and yet denyeth the faith they preach to be a marke of the Church wherin he cannot reconcile himselfe with his fellowes The same is further confirmed by diuers other places of m Deut 4.6 Psal 147.19 Esa 2.2.3 Act. 2.42 Ioh. 8.31 Rom. 10.14 2. pet 1.19 Scripture whither I referre the reader 4 And surely plaine reason sheweth it For it must needs be granted to be an vndoubted note of the Church which maketh vs know it when we seeke it and distinguisheth it from the false Churches of the heretickes Now this the true faith which is according to the Scriptures doth in that euery church pretending it selfe to be the Church of Christ is examined thereby and that allowed to be the true Church indeed which agreeth therewith according to that of Saint Paul n Gal. 6.26 As many as walke according to this rule peace shall be vpon them and mercie and vpon the Israel of God And our Sauiour in the Gospell o Mat. 7 16. saith Ye shal know the false Prophets by their fruits p Iansen harm cap. 43. Rhem. annot in cū loc Stapl. princip doctr l. 10. c. 1. that is by their doctrine So that if the men which professe themselues to be the Church are first to be tried by the Scriptures it followeth necessarily that the doctrine contained in the Scriptures is the note of the Church In which regard the Apostle q Ephes 2.19 saith of the Church that it is the houshold of God built vpon the foundation of the Apostles and Prophets And Epiphanius speaking of an hereticke r 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Tom. 1 l. 2. haer 4◠saith This man is found altogether differing from the holy Scriptures as it will appeare to all them that reade attentiuely if then he be dissenting from them he is altogether an alien from the holy Catholicke Church And me thinkes if we said no more to this point the very confession of our aduersaries might put it out of doubt who say expresly ſ Reynol Caluinoturc l. 4. c. 9 pag. 859. These two the true Church and the true faith are so knit and infolded together that the one inferreth and concludeth the other frō the true Church is concluded the true faith and from the true faith the true Church is inferred And t Bellar. de not eccl c. 2. when the question is concerning the Church then the Scripture is better knowne then the Church Now betweene vs and the Papists the question is concerning the Church and therefore the Scriptures are the best marke to know it by Moreouer the doctrine of the Scripture declareth what be the notes of the Church as the Iesuite himselfe speaketh and all Papists are constrained by the Scriptures to proue those marks which they assigne and who then seeth not that the doctrine it selfe must needs be the best note of al when it is first and best knowne This is his owne reason who in his discourse following hereby would proue the Church to be better knowne then the doctrine because it sheweth the doctrine and bringeth it to our view Againe u Canis catec magn pag. 131. Reynol Caluinoturc pa. 860. Staplet princip doctrin l. 4. prooem the learned among them maintaine sundry of their notes of the Church to be true notes because as they say the Church is defined by them and why then shall true doctrine and faith be debarred which are the efficient cause very difference of the Church wherein it differeth principally from all false assemblies and therfore to be put in the definition thereof Finally x 2. Pet. 1.19 Apoc. 2.5 the Scripture calleth it self and the faith thereof a light shining in the Church as in a candlestick or lanterne which proueth it sufficient to shew vs where the Church is as a light in a dark night directs the sayler to his hauen And whereas the Iesuits marks vnitie antiquitie and vniuersalitie agree to other assemblies as well as to the Church of God and by y Bellar. de not eccl c. 3. their owne confession are no proofes of euident truth this of the True faith can be found in none but the Church of Christ whereunto it is proper euery way euen to all the Church at all times and to it alone and so cannot deceiue such as follow it 5 In the last place I desire the Reader to marke the iudgement of two ancient fathers Chrysostome and Augustine and to compare the same with the Iesuites conclusion and then freely to say whether the Church of Rome haue all antiquitie on her side or not In this time z Op. imperf hom 49. saith Chrysostome since heresie hath taken hold of the Church there can be no triall of true Christianitie nor any other refuge for Christians desirous to know the true faith but the holy Scriptures formerly it might many wayes be shewed which was the Church of Christ and which Gentilisme but now they that will
know which is the true Church of Christ can know it no wayes but onely by the Scriptures because all those things which belong to Christ in truth the heresies also haue in schisme Therefore if any man would know which is the true Church of Christ how shall he know it in so great confusion of likenesse but by the Scriptures onely For this cause the Lord knowing the confusion of things that should happen in the latter dayes commaundeth that such Christians as will receiue assurance of faith shall flie to no other thing but to the Scriptures else if they looke to other matters they shall be offended and they shall perish not knowing which is the true Church Againe vpon these words By their fruits ye shall know them a In c. 7. Math. he saith A mans fruite is the confession of faith and his workes are the conuersation of his life therefore if thou see a Christian man straightway consider that if his confession agree with the Scripture then he is a true Christian but if it be not as Christ commanded then is he a false Christian for Christ hath referred the triall of a Christian not to the name but to the confession c. Saint Austin hath left written an excellent booke against the Donatists who pretended as the Papists now do that the Church was onely among them wherein he handleth this question at large how the true Church may be knowne and by what markes Thus he writeth in b Liber con tâ— PetilianuÌ„ Donatist Epistol seu de vnitate Ecclesiae c. 2. that booke The question betweene vs and the Donatists is where is the Church What therfore shall we do shall we seeke it in our owne words or in the words of her head our Lord Iesu Christ I thinke we ought to seeke it rather in his words who is the truth and best knoweth his owne body c Cap. 3. Let not these speeches be heard among vs This I say and this thou saiest but let vs heare These things saith the Lord. There are certaine bookes of God vnto whose authoritie we both consent we both beleeue we both stand there let vs seeke the Church there let vs trie our cause Let those things therefore be remoued from vs which we bring one against another not out of the holy Canonicall bookes but aliunde Because I will not haue the holy Church demonstrated by mans teaching but by the holy oracles of God d Cap. 16. therefore setting aside all such matters let them shew foorth the Church if they can not by the speeches and rumors of the Africans not in the Councels of their Bishops not in the writings of euery disputer not in signes and false miracles because Gods word hath prepared and made vs readie against these things but let them declare it out of the prescript of the law the prediction of the Prophets the songs of the Psalmes the words of the Pastor himselfe I enquire the Church it selfe where it should be which hearing the words of Christ and doing them buildeth vpon the rocke let him then shew me the Church and let him so shew it that he say not this is true because I say it or because my fellowes haue said it or those our Bishops or this is true because Donatus or Pontius or some other hath done such or such miracles or because men pray and are heard at the monuments of our dead or because such and such things haue happened there or because such a brother or such a sister of ours hath seene such a vision or had such a dreame let these things be remoued either as the deuices of lyers or as no better then the miracles of deceitfull spirits for either they are not true which are reported or if heretickes haue any wonders done among them it standeth vs in hand to beware the more But whether they haue the Church or not let them declare onely by the Canonicall bookes of the holy Scriptures These be the instructions these be the foundations these be the supporters of our cause By all which discourse it appeareth that Austin thought the true faith was the note of the true Church or else to what purpose should he so earnestly reuoke the Donatists froÌ„ all other courses to the tryall of the canonicall Scriptures if he had not bene of mind that the faith alone consenting with them had bene the infallible signe of the Church as he speaketh also in e Epist 166. another place In the Scriptures haue we learned Christ in the Scriptures haue we learned the Church § 25. I proue it because by true faith either is meant true faith onely in some points or in all it is not a good marke to say that is the true Church which teacheth the true faith in some points onely for all heretickes teach truth in some points and though it be proper to the true Church to be so guided by the holy Ghost that it teach the infallible truth in all points as before hath bene proued yet this is not a good marke whereby all sorts of men may and ought to come to know which is the true Church of which if they will be saued they must needs learne an infallible faith The Answer 1 We do not think euery company to be the true Church that holdeth onely some points of the true faith for all heretickes teach the truth in some things and yet we deny them to be the Church of God but f Act. 4.12 1. Cor. 3.11 Eph. 2.19 it is requisite that the foundation be holden that is to say all such truths deliuered as are necessary for all mens saluation and such heresies auoyded as destroy the foundation which kind of teaching is an infallible note whereby all Churches and professions may be tryed and we meane it when we say the faith is a marke of the Church 2 Neither yet do we thinke as the Iesuite speaketh that any visible church teacheth this truth so infallibly that it erreth in nothing we thinke and g §. 14. 15. I haue shewed the contrary for this befalleth the Church that it may be ignorant of many truthes for a time it may hold the faith sometime more sometime lesse purely it may build hay and wood vpon the foundation it may be infected with the errors and heresies of some therein and some articles lying in the very foundation may be beleeued not so clearely as h Mark 16 14. Luc. 24 5.11.12.21.25.37 Ioh. 20.25 the resurrection of Christ was for a time not well vnderstood which things though they befall the Church the holy Ghost teaching it but by degrees yet is not the faith thereby taken from it but abideth â—ufficient to giue testimony of saluation to all that will follow it And this is confirmed by the confession of our aduersaries themselues who say i Bell. de Not. Eccl. c. 2. that to erre and yet to be ready to learne and when you haue learned to
be as ready to obey is one thing but neither to be willing to learne nor when you heare the truth to be satisfied therewith is another The first of these may befall the particular Church c. § 26. Because a marke whereby a thing may and must be knowne must be more apparent and easie to be knowne to all those men which should by that marke seeke out and find that thing then the thing it selfe otherwise there should come no helpe by the marke to the knowledge of the thing But to know which is the true faith in all points at least to some sorts of men to wit the vnlearned is more hard then to know and assigne which companie of men be the true Church For to know which is the true faith in all particular points requireth learning whereby one may vnderstand the termes and state of the question besides iudgement to discusse and weigh prudently the sufficiencie of the authorities and reasons oâ— both parts that vpon this pondering of reasons they may prudently conclude which is the better part Moreouer they must haue a supernaturall light of God his Spirit whereby they may discerne and see those things which be aboue all naturall rules and reasons Ad haec quis idoneus Who can say that he is sufficiently furnished with these helpes or who can be infallibly sure that he hath all these in such sort as is requisite for obtaining by his owne industrie an infallible faith in al points And as for the vnlearned they must needes confesse that in diuerse mysteries of faith they do not so much as vnderstand the termes and state of the question and much lesse are they able sufficiently to examine the worth of euery reason neither are all such as can perswade themselues that they are singularly illuminated immediatly taught of God his Spirit neither if they did thus perswade themselues could they be infallibly sure that in this their perswasion they were not deceiued since it is certaine that some that most strongly in their owne conceit perswade themselues to be thus enlightened are in this their perswasion deceiued Now for to know which is the true Church and by giuing credite to it consequently which is the true faith there are not so many things required nor anie great difficultie as shall be declared For this is the direct way which Esay as did foretell cap. 35. should be in the time of Messias which he said should be so direct that euen fooles to wit simple and vnlearned men should not erre in it Haec erit vobis directa via saith he ita vt stulti non errent per eam The Answer 1 This is his first argument the summe whereof is concluded in this Syllogisme That which is the marke whereby to know a thing must be more apparent and easier to be knowne then the thing it selfe otherwise it helpeth vs not in finding out the thing But the true faith is not more apparent or easier to be knowne then the Church but contrary the Church is easier to be knowne then the true faith for to know the true faith there is required learning iudgement and supernaturall illumination which no man sufficiently hath but to know which is the true Church these things are not required for the Church is the direct way Esa 35.8 Therefore the true faith is not the marke of the Church To this I answer denying the second proposition and the confirmation thereof that it is harder to know which is the true faith then to assigne which company of men be the Church For faith is the cause of the Church that is to say this is the thing that maketh a people to be the Church of God when they beleeue the word of God and euery cause as it goeth before his effect so is it more apparent to our vnderstanding and better knowne to our iudgement then the effect Aristotle saith a Analy Poste cap. 2. Causes are both before their effects and better knowne and b Ibid. Metaph l. 1. c. 2. l. 2. c. 2. Plato in Thraet the true knowledge of things ariseth from the knowledge of their causes yea those things are simply first and best knowne which are furthest from our sence and nearest our vnderstanding and so the doctrine and beliefe of the Church must needes be easier to know then the Church it selfe because it cometh first to my vnderstanding and of necessitie I must see it afore I can tell whether the Church be there or not For though that company which is offered to me as the Church be more apparent to my sence yet haue I no certaintie that it is the Church or a companie so qualified vntil I know the faith thereof to be true I see indeed a company of men and heare much of their greatnesse but I am not sure they are the Church vnlesse I know they hold the true faith and so the knowledge of this leadeth me to the knowledge of that and the faith is easilier discerned then the Church 2 The Papists themselues haue a saying which if this Iesuite would receiue might determine this matter We see indeed that companie of men which is the Church c Lib. 3. de eccl c. 15. saith Bellarmine but we do not see that this companie is the true Church of Christ we beleeue it For that is the true Church which prâ—fesseth the faith of Christ but who doth euidently know this faith to be the faith of Christ we rather beleeue this by a firme and most assured faith In which words this Iesuites assumption is thus disproued That whereupon I beleeue the Church so to be is more apparent and easier to be knowne sooner to be seene then the church it selfe But vpon knowledge of the Churches faith I beleeue it to be the Church therefore the Churches faith is more apparent and sooner knowne then the Church it selfe Againe By faith we beleeue this to be the true Church and the profession thereof to be the truth but d Rom. 10.17 all faith cometh by hearing the word of God therefore by the meanes of hearing Gods word I beleeue this to be the true Church and so consequently the knowledge of Gods word cometh sooner and easilier to my vnderstanding then the knowledge of the Church 3 And though it were granted that in some cases the Church were easier to know then the faith yet as things depend betweene the Papists and vs the faith is easier to know then the Church for the question betweene them and vs is who hath the true Church In which triall it is the greatest folly in the world for either of vs to offer our selues to the world as the true Churches of Christ till first we haue proued our selues so to be by the doctrine that we professe and in vaine shall we attempt this if as the case standeth this doctrine be not easier and plainer then the Church This is the confession of the Iesuites
e Bellar. de nâ—â— eccl c. 2. When the question is concerning the Church which it is and the Scripture is admitted on both hands then the Scripture is more apparent and easier to know then the Church So that the Papists do but spend time and mocke the world in obiecting to vs the authoritie and dignitie of their Church they may do it as they list one to another but in their controuersies with vs they may not not onely because we reiect it but principally for as much as the doctrine of the Scripture by their owne verdict is easier and plainer 4 Neither are the Iesuites reasons to the contrary of any value For I grant that to the finding out of the true faith we haue need of learning iudgement and illumination as the meanes Yea the doctrine hereof is so hard to natural men as we are all till God haue regenerate vs f Ioh. 7.17 8.31.43 14 17. 1 Cor. 2.14 2. Cor. 3.14 Mat. 16.17 Iob 32.8 that it goeth beyond the capacity of flesh and bloud But he should haue remembred the ministery of the Church and light of Gods spirit helpeth our infirmities the doctrine it selfe is a light shining through all these incumbrances These meanes are not such but the simple may attaine to a sufficient portion thereof and his Ad haec quis idoneus with that which followeth is denied as an idle conceit and g §. 7. 8. alreadie confuted And let the impediments be what they will yet shall the Iesuite finde them in the way of his owne Church and let him if he can free his owne notes from them For is his Catholicke Romane which so eagerly he putteth to his friend such a Church as needeth neither learning nor iudgement nor the light of heauen to discerne it If it be I am content he enioy it himselfe neither will I euer perswade my friends to communicate with that companie which is so famous that the very wind wil blow a man into it And yet h Staple relect controu 1. q. 3. Greg de ValeÌ„t commen theol tom 3. pag. 145. some of the Iesuites owne side will say sometime that they had need both of wisedome and skill that shall alwayes discerne the Church 5 The text of Esay speaketh of the ministery of the Gospell and it meaneth that it shall infallibly guide the meanest people that liue therein to eternall life which it doth by propounding to them the word of God that thereby they may know it to be the true Church and be drawne to walke in the paths thereof And though the Prophet call it a direct way yet I am sure he meaneth not that any can walke in it till he haue found it or any can finde it i Esa 35.5 till his eyes be opened k Ioh. 12.40 Act. 26.18 2. Cor. 4.4 which is done no way but by the doctrine of the Church Or if he think the way of the Church so easie because the holy Prophet calleth it a direct way that fooles may walke in it let him say vnfainedly if his affection to the Romane Helena haue not blinded h s eyes l 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Theocr. Bucoliast as louers are blind and besotted his conscience that he cannot see the doctrine of the Scriptures to be as easie seeing it is called m Psal 19.8 Pro. 1.4 a sure law giuing wisedome to the simple and light to the eyes sharpening the wit of the simple and giuing knowledge and discretion to children And Austine saith n Enar. in psa 8. The Scripture is bowed downe to the capacitie of babes and sucklings And Chrysostome affirmeth o Hom. 1. in Mat. They are so easie to vnderstand that the capacitie of euery seruant plow-man widow and boy may reach vnto them p Hom. 3. de Laz. yea the most simple that is of himselfe onely by reading may vnderstand them In which sayings we see as much affirmed of the doctrine of the Scripture as the Iesuite can say is affirmed in the place of Esay concerning the Church and yet possible he will turne him in a narrow roome afore he will yeeld and keepe possession still in his Church-porch against all the pulpits in England that speake for the Scriptures § 27. Secondly I proue the same because when we seeke for the true Church we seeke for it principally for this end that by it as a necessarie and infallible meanes we may heare and learne and perfectly know the true faith in all points which otherwise is in it selfe hidden obscure and vnknowne to vs according to that of S. Paul Animalis homo non percipit ea quae sunt Spiriritus Dei 1. Cor. 2. For as no man by the onely power of nature can attaine this supernaturall knowledge of diuine mysteries which we beleeue by our faith so neither doth the Spirit of God who doth as the principall cause infuse this gift of faith into our soules ordinarily instruct anie man in the knowledge of true faith immediatly by himselfe alone but requireth as a necessary condition the preaching and expounding of matters of faith to be made by the true Church according as S. Paul saith Rom. 10. Quomodo credent ei queÌ„ non audierunt quomodo audient sine praedicante quomodo vero praedicabunt nisi mittantur Therefore the true Church is rather a marke whereby we must know the true faith then contrarie the true faith to know the true Church The Answer 1 This is the second argument and is concluded in this Syllogisme That is no marke or meanes to know the Church by which it self is vnknowne to vs till the Church teach it and is learned by the meanes and ministery of the Church But such is the true faith that we cannot know it til the Church teach it vs and it selfe is learned by the meanes and ministerie of the Church for God instructeth no man immediatly but by the preaching of the Church as Saint Paul saith Rom. 10. Therefore the true faith is not a sufficient marke to finde the Church by For answer to this argument it will easily be granted that the ministery of the Church is the ordinary meanes whereby we learne the faith of Christ and that no man of himselfe can attaine to the knowledge thereof but as the Church teacheth him This I say is granted so it be well vnderstood For the spirit of God in the Scripture is the principall schoolemaster from whom all truth cometh and which openeth the heart to beleeue and the Church is it which by her ministery holdeth this truth before vs and therefore except in some extraordinary cases the preaching thereof is required as a necessary condition as the text of Saint Paul speaketh 2 But hence it followeth not that therefore the Church is rather a marke of the faith then the faith a marke of the Church for these two the true Church and the true faith are like relatiues inseparably vnited together by a
the Iesuite so confidently beareth his friend in hand that the Gospels of the foure Euangelists cannot be knowne to be true Scripture more then those of Thomas and Nicodemus but by the authoritie of his Church Wherein possible he hath also the same meaning that Doctor Standish vttereth in the place alledged x In the letter b. a little before that those counterfeit Gospels bearing the titles of Thomas Nicodemus and Bartholomew were written by them in deed but his Church to shew her authoritie that this she can do hath repealed them A fat conceit yet some mens stomackes belike can digest it But if the Iesuite cannot conceiue how the Scripture may be discerned from other writings vnlesse we allow him the Churches authoritie let him hearken and learne of a rare man of his owne side Picus of Mirandula who speaking of the Scriptures y Refert Posseu bibl in Cicero c. 11. hath this memorable saying They do not moue they do not perswade but they enforce vs they driue vs forward they violently constraine vs. Thou readest words rude and homely but such as are quicke liuely flaming stinging piercing to the bottome of the spirit and by their admirable power transforming the whole man This admirable light shining in the Scripture it selfe shall assure vs it is the word of God better I hope then that Church whose tongue is sold to speake nothing but the Popes will § 29. Fourthly if to haue an entire faith in all particular points must be foreknowne as a marke whereby to know the true Church then contrary to that which hath bene alreadie proued the authoritie of the Church should not be a necessarie meanes whereby men must come to the infallible knowledge of true faith for if before we come to know which is the true Church we might by other meanes haue knowne which is the true faith in all points what need then is there for getting the true faith alreadie had to vse or bring the authoritie of the Church The Answer 1 Because this reason is the same with that which goeth before therefore it shall receiue the same answer That although we need the ministerie of the Church to teach vs the faith and this faith is not ordinarily knowne till the Church or some member thereof reueale it to vs yet may it be a marke whereby to know the Church as the effect is a marke of the cause that produceth it the fruite of the tree the teaching of the schoolemaister In which case the reuelation of the true faith whereby we come to know it is an effect or worke of the Church and so able and fit to assure vs that it is the Church Neither doth this suppose or imply that the faith is already had and knowne by other meanes before we vse the Church but onely that when the Church teacheth the faith thereof in the order of my vnderstanding is first knowne that is to say the Church and the faith being inseparably ioyned together yet the faith first cometh to my knowledge This I further explicate by a similitude For musick is the marke of a Musitian whereby to know him and to distinguish him from all other professions And though I must first be assured it is good musicke that he sheweth before I can be certaine he is a Musitian yet were it folly to reason as the Iesuite doth what need then is there for the getting of the musicke already had to vse the ministerie of the Musitian for the musicke is not already had but onely by his playing it cometh in order before himselfe into my vnderstanding and then I know him thereby So a 1. Reg. 3.16 two women laid claime both to one child and both pretended themselues to be true mother thereunto as the Church of Rome this day striueth with vs pleading for her selfe that she is our holy mother the Church and the child is hers in this contention we must find out the Church by the same markes that Salomon found out the true mother which was her tender compassion inclosed in her bowels and discouered by her words that she had rather part with her child then haue it cut in sunder And if the Iesuite should reason against Salomons iudgement that he had followed a wrong marke which was inclosed in the woman heart and needed great iudgement yea diuine illumination to find it the woman her selfe by her speech and behauiour made it knowne to him and if pietie and pitie were the note of a true mother whereby to know her then contrary to that which hath bene already proued the speech and behauiour of the mother should not be a necessary meanes whereby Salomon must come to the knowledge of this pietie c. If I say he should thus argue against Salomon he might do it with the same reason that he vseth against vs and possible with as good successe * V. vltim the spirit of God and the iudgement of all Israel in both alike equally condemning his sophistry For was not the womans pitie toward the child knowne to Salomons wisedome before he knew her to be the mother and yet her selfe was the instrument that made it knowne So true faith is the mark of the Church and known to me before the Church but yet by no other meanes but by the Church whose ministery is needful for the getting it as the cause is needfull for the obtaining of the effect and afterward it selfe is proued by the same effect Now the teaching of the truth is an effect of the true Church § 30. Fiftly if before we giue absolute infallible and vndoubted credit to the true Church we must examine and iudge whether euery particular point which it teacheth be the truth with authoritie to accept that which we like or which in our conceit seemeth right and conformable to Gods word and to reiect whatsoeuer we dislike or which in our priuate iudgement seemeth not so right or conformable then we make our selues examiners and iudges ouer the Church and consequently preferre our liking or disliking our iudgement and censure of the sence of Scripture before the iudgement definition and censure of the true Church But it is absurd both in reason and religion to preferre the iudgement of anie priuate man be he neuer so wittie or learned or neuer so strongly perswaded in his owne conceit that he is taught by the Spirit before the sentence of Gods Catholike Church which is a companie of men many of which both are and haue bin most vertuous wise and learned and which is chiefe is such a companie as according to the absolute and infallible promises of Scripture hath Christ himselfe and his holy Spirit continually among them guiding them and teaching them all truth and not permitting them to erre Matth. vlt. 10.14 16. vt supra The Answer 1 This is his last argument wherein he reasoneth thus that if the faith be a note of the Church then it must first be examined
not to the cleargie but to the people And the reason added why they should trie the spirits maketh it plaine who the parties be that should trie them for many false Prophets are gone out they must trie the spirits that are in danger to be seduced by false Prophets and such are the people and therefore they must examine them as Christ saith a Math. 7.15 Beware of false Prophets by their fruites that is by their doctrine ye shall know them and yet they cannot be knowne by their doctrine vnlesse it be first examined And Saint Basil b Eth. definit 72. pag. 432. Graec. Bas saith It behoueth the hearers which are learned in the Scriptures to examine the things which are spoken by their teachers and receiuing those things which are consonant with the Scriptures to refuse the contrary 2 And whereas the Iesuite auoucheth his conceit by a text of Ephes 4.11 wherein it is said that Christ hath left to his Church Pastors and Doctors that henceforth we be no more children wauering and caried about with euery wind of doctrine the Apostle saith not that our Pastors were giuen vs that henceforth we should no more trie the spirits but for the worke of the ministery for the gathering together of the Saints for the building of the body of Christ all which dutie of theirs is much furthered when the people vnder them trie all things and hold that which is good and by examining their teaching find them to be Doctors of the truth And if Saint Paul had misliked this then the men of Beroea had not bene c Act. 17.11 commended by the spirit of God for examining his doctrine neither would he haue d Heb. 5.14 warned the Hebrewes that through long custome they should haue their wits exercised to discerne both good and euill And to reply that they discerne it because the Church telleth them what it is is too grosse for they cannot tel whether the Church say true or no till they haue examined what it saith 3 In the second place he answereth that the spirits which must be tried are not the spirits of the Church which are of God but onely such spirits of which we may doubt whether they be of God or no then the which he could haue spoken nothing more vnaduisedly because if it be lawfull to trie such spirits as are suspitious or false then is it also lawfull to proue the true for two contrary spirits be relatiues so that we cannot proue the one to be false but we must needs withal proue the other to be true Againe when we doubt whether the spirit be of God then we are not certaine and if the false spirit be not certainly false then neither is the true spirit certainly true in my vnderstanding till I haue tried it Moreouer there is nothing so true in it selfe but it may be doubtfull to vs till we haue tried it and therefore the purest spirits are not exempt from examination specially considering that it is no iniury to the truth which loueth to be sifted if ye proue it by his word e Ioh. 18.37 that was borne to beare witnesse to the truth and the more ye trie it the clearer it is neither can it be grieuance to the spirit of God who f 1. Thess 5.21 calleth vpon vs to trie all things and hold that which is good and biddeth vs haue our wits exercised to discerne betweene good and euill 4 And his conclusion that when it is certaine the spirit is of God then we must no longer doubtfully examine it but obediently accept it saith very well for g 2. Tim. 3.7 the Apostle rebuketh such as are alway learning and neuer come to the knowledge of the truth but he forgetteth that so it neuer is till we haue tried it and therefore we may first examine it that afterwards we may be certaine and obedient And though it be most certaine that the spirit of the true Church is of God yet hence it followeth not that we must seeke this Church by other markes and not by her teaching for those other markes which the Iesuite meaneth are of God too as well as the teaching is and yet he will allow them to be examined And first to examine and trie and then obediently to beleeue are not contrary but subordinate and the one the way to the other And Christ was of God yet h Ioh 5.39 he bad men search the Scripture for his triall and all we being naturally the heires of vnbeleefe cannot haue this certaintie in our selues till the discourse of Gods word haue created it in vs. And if there were nothing else to leade vs yet the experience which we haue had of the Church of Romes dealing were sufficient to warne vs that we neuer giue ouer Saint Iohns lesson Beleeue not euery spirit but trie them whether they be of God Digression 20. Concerning the proceeding of the Councell of Trent in the determining matters of faith 5 For the Papists i Bone Deuâ— quae gentium varietas qui delectus episcoporum totius orbis qui reguÌ„ rerum publicarum splâ—ndor quae medulla theologorum quae sanctitas quae lacrymae quae iciâ—niâ— qui flores academici quae linguae quanâ—a subtilitas quantus labor quam insinita lectio quantae virtutaÌ„ studiorum diuitâ— t aug â—stuÌ„ illâ—d sacraâ—ium impleueruntâ— Posseuin biblioth pag 4â—2 commend their Trent Councell to the skies perswading themselues this very Church was there whose bare authoritie should leade vs and yet marke what course it tooke in the triall of religion For first none was admitted to haue any voice there but onely such as were fast to the Papacie and not all such neither if they were not pliable enough in euery matter to the Popes mind for some were remoued out of the Councell and sent away because they began to speake something freely and to make sure work there were more Bishops of Italy then of all the world beside who might ouer-rule the rest if need required of which matter k Claud. Espencae in epist ad Tit. c. 1. a Popish Bishop confesseth This is that Helena which of late ruled all at Trident besides l Innocen Gen tillet examen Concil Triden pag. 32. Nota quod holie multi sunt Episcopi sine administratione episcopatuum vt sunt isti qui vulgariter appellantur Nullatenenses Panor de offic ordin c. quoniam there were some that had the titles of Archbishops as Vpsalensis Armachanus which yet had neither church nor Diocesse but were created to fil vp the number m Id pag. 251. and wheÌ„ yet vpon a time the Pope wanted voices to sway the matter he sent a fresh supply of forty Bishops newly made as euery base towne in Italy hath his Bishop And when the Protestant Diuines required audience they could not be admitted vpon any equall termes but n Illyr protest contra Concil Trid Fabric recus
mot 45. saith The truth is that some there haue bene in many ages in some points of the Protestants opinion in so much that scarce any peece or article there is of our whole faith but by one or other first or last it hath bene called in question and that with such liking for the time that they haue all in a manner drawne after them great heards of followers I know Bristo meaneth they were hereticks that in all ages did this but that can he neuer proue yet in the meane time belike he saw some that were of the Protestants faith before of late The second is Reynerius that liued three hundred yeares ago who discoursing of the Waldenses a people for substance of the Protestants religion e Refert Illyric catal tom 2. p. 543. saith They are in all the cities of Lombardy and Prouince and other countries and kingdomes They haue many followers and dispute publickely we haue numbred fortie Churches of theirs and ten schooles in Parish No sect hath continued so long some say it hath bene since the time of Syluester some since the Apostles and there is almost no country wherein it spreadeth not They haue great shew of pietie liuing vprightly before men and beleeuing all things aright concerning God and all the articles in the Creed onely they hate and blaspheme the Church of Rome c. In this testimonie of Reynerius you may see our Church was Catholicke both in place and persons and time and doctrine and that the Church of Rome was resisted and the religion thereof refused afore Luther The true cause why it was not so frequent and publicke as now it is either in place or persons was the persecution of the Pope and the generall corruption of the Papacie which as a leprosie infected and as a mist obscured welnigh all places and persons that sometimes not the true beleeuers themselues such I meane as are come to our knowledge were void of error in euery point though they firmly held the foundatiō as these Waldenses did And if it pleased God in processe of time to giue more libertie to the persons and more puritie to the doctrine what iust occasion is this to say we are not all one Church when the true faith of Christ is not alwayes alike visibly and purely professed Minutius Felix f Octau pa. 401. saith Why are we vnthankfull and why enuie we if the truth of God hath grown ripe in our age let vs enioy our good and let superstition be bridled and wickednes expiated and true religion maintained 2 The next point that our Church is but in few places of Christendome is both false and impertinent First impertinent for if it were so yet were it no hindrance to the note of vniuersalitie For Gods Church vnder the law was shut vp within the narrow bounds of Iudaea and g Digr 17. nu 31 the Papists say theirs in the dayes of their supposed Antichrist shall be openly seene but in few places and h Dried dogm eccl l. 4. c. 2 par 2. Bellar. not eccl c. 7. confesse it is not required to the vniuersalitie of the Church that of necessitie there be at all times in euery countrey some beleeuers it sufficeth if there be successiuely Whence it followeth that if only one prouince did retaine the true faith yet should it truly and properly be called the Catholicke Church as long as it might be shewed that it were the same which it was at other times in other places of the world the which we can shew of our Church how small soeuer the compasse thereof may fall out to be at some time Next it is false for there is no place in Christendome but there are some of our religion therein as not onely experience but our aduersaries owne reports beare witnesse wherein they i Boz sign eccl l. 19. c. 1. Bell. de Rom. Pont. praefat li. 3. c. 21. item de verb. Dei praefat habit in Gymn Rom. complaine how our heresie so heretickes style it possesseth many and large prouinces England Scotland Denmark Norwey Sweden Germanie Pole Boheme Hungary Prussia Lituania Liuonia whereto they may adde France and the Low countries yea Italy and Spaine it selfe where the barbarous Inquisition dayly findeth the profession of our religion euen at their doores 3 The third point that our Church is not Catholick in doctrine neither is as ill proued as the former For negatiue doctrine so farre as it is euil standeth not in denying some points which the fathers held but in denying that which they held according to the Scriptures and which they taught and maintained to be certain and necessary matter of faith deliuered in the Scriptures wherein neither we nor the Centuries euer refused them Neither haue we denied any one point which they held in all ages for the truth as our aduersaries haue For though the Centuries reiect this and that which the Father 's held yet they deny neither this nor that which was holden for the truth in all ages as appeareth by their historie wherein they shew the succession of our faith in all ages and note how it was many times corrupted and mistaken euen by some of the ancient Fathers which is all for substance that the Magdeburgenses can be charged with wherein they haue neither denied the doctrine of the Catholicke Church nor offered the Fathers any wrong to say they had some errors as all men haue and themselues confesse which gaue occasion to others to erre likewise which errors the Centuries sometimes more then was cause noting they did not thereby notwithstanding accuse the whole Church of error because euery thing was not the Churches doctrine that some particular men therein held and what they noted of some particular Fathers must not be stretched to be meant against them all as their censuring somtimes ouermuch of many together for some things written against the truth must not be expounded to be the deniall of all they held beside for if it be and the Centuries be thus censured let this Iesuite say directly without shrinking why doth k Cathar tract de concep virg Suar. to 2. disp 3 sect 6. the Church of Rome hold the virgin Marie was conceiued without sinne l Capreol 3. d. 3. Ban. par 1. p. 75. Paul Cortes in sent which all the Fathers with one consent deny Let them looke my demaund in the face that thinke it heresie to deny the Fathers yea all the fathers consenting in one Digression 47. Of the authoritie of the ancient Fathers in matters of our faith and religion Wherein it is shewed what we ascribe to them and how farre forth we depend vpon them And the practise of our aduersaries in contemning eluding and refusing both them and their owne writers is plainly discouered 4 But this is a point that must be further looked into and not suffered to passe away thus Our aduersaries neuer make an end of boasting of the Fathers and by
might be here in the sacrament yet it was not in the beginning so manifestly beleeued as concerning this conuersion o D. 11. q. 3. §. Quantum ergo ad istum But principally this seemeth to moue vs to hold transubstantiation because concerning the sacramēts we are to hold as the Church of Rome doth where in the margin it is noted that our faith as concerning this sacrament is onely by reason of the Churches determination And he p §. Ad argumenta pro prima addeth We must say the Church in the Creed of the Lateran Councell vnder Innocent the third which beginneth with these words FIRMITER CREDIMVS declared this sence concerning transubstantiation to belong to the veritie of our faith And if you demand why would the Church make choise of so difficult a sence of this article whē the words of the Scripture This is my body might be vpholden after an easie sence and in appearance more true I say the Scriptures were expounded by the same spirit that made them and so it is to be supposed that the Catholicke Church expounded them by the same spirit whereby the faith was deliuered vs namely being taught by the spirit of truth and therefore it chose this sence because it was true q Canon lect 41. Biels words are to the same effect Which sheweth the point was neither holden nor knowne vniuersally in the Church before the Lateran Councell and that then it began to be receiued as a matter of our faith And yet since that time these men enquiring so boldly into the congruēcie of the opinion and casting so many dangers about it they shew plainly that they mistrust the proceeding of the Councell though they may not disclaime it Durand r 4. d. 11. q. 1. saith It is great rashnesse to thinke the body of Christ by his diuine power cannot be in the sacrament vnlesse the bread be conuerted into it But if this way which supposeth the bread to remaine still were true de facto many doubts which meet vs about the sacrament holding that the substance of bread remaineth not were dissolued But forsomuch as this way must not de facto be holden since the Church hath determined the contrary which is presumed not to erre in such matters therefore I answer the arguments made to the contrary holding the other part which saith the bread is changed Would our aduersaries thus backwardly come into the opinion if they had seene it to haue bene holden in all ages before in the Church or is it not rather an infallible signe that it was brought into the Church by the strength of some mens conceits without all warrant either of Scripture or fathers the want whereof so dazled those that imbraced it that they could see no reason for it but are all glad to lay it vpon the necke of a silly Pope in his Lateran Coūcell Besides ſ Scot. 4. d 11. q. 3. Bell Euchar. l. 3. c. 23. they confesse There is no Scriptare to inforce it vnlesse ye bring the Church of Romes exposition that is to say the Popes authoritie in whom t Turrect tract 73. quest q. 49. they thinke the power of the vniuersall Church in determining matters of faith principally resides if not alone u 3. part q. 75. art 1. p. 153. Caietan laieth downe diuers opinions holden among the Schoolemen touching the conuersion neuer a one whereof reacheth the transubstantiation and disallowing such as expounded Christs words This is my body metaphorically he saith his reason is because the Church hath vnderstood them properly I say the Church saith he because in the Gospell there is nothing that compelleth vs to vnderstand them properly headdeth that the conuersion of the bread into Christs body we haue receiued of the Church Now put all this together that we beleeue transubstantiation vpon the authoritie of the Church and this Church was Pope Innocent in the Councell of Lateran before which time there was no certaintie nor necessitie of beleeuing it and the Councell might haue chosen another sence of Christs words more easie and in all appearance more true for there is no Scripture sufficient to conuince it and the contrary were liable to fewer difficulties let this I say be put together and it will plainly shew that this point came in contrary to that which was vniuersally holden in the ancient Church because things vniuersally holden were certainly knowne and expresly beleeued without all this ado § 48. Let him shew also what countrey there is or hath bene where Christian faith either was first planted or continued where some at least haue not holden the Romane faith as we can shew them diuerse places especially in the Indies Iaponia and China countreys where theirs is scarce heard of The Answer 1 This is answered before sect 46. nu 2. where I shewed that when countries were first conuerted frō Paganism which was for the most part in the Primitiue Church the present Romane faith was not knowne but the Church of Rome in those daies professed the same that we do and consequently the nations conuerted by it and professing the faith thereof were conuerted to our religion and professed it For the Iesuite deceiueth himselfe with the name of Romane faith wherewith in the beginning all nations indeed vnder heauen communicated but then it was not the same that now it is as I haue plainly demonstrated in the former sect digress 49. And although since the change many nations haue still retained the same faith with it yet that iustifieth not the faith because the said faith growing on by steps and peecemeale was a generall apostasie and the mysterie of iniquitie working throughout the whole Church so that of necessitie there must be some in all places to follow it As when a generall rebellion groweth throughout a kingdome the rebels haue partakers in euerie towne and yet the possession is not proued theirs by that but onely the greatnesse and strength of the rebelling faction is shewed The Papacy that is to say the Roman faith in as much as it differeth from vs is not imagined by vs to be in another Church distinct in place and countries from the true Church of Christ but we affirme it to be a contagion raigning in the middest of the Church of Christ it self and spreading throughout the parts therof wheresoeuer and annoying the whole body like a leprosie in which disease though all the parts be affected yet the inward and vitall parts retaine their operation and still worke to expell the leprosie which at the length they do In this case the man is possessed indeed with a vile contagion but yet the man remaineth there still though the contagion be not the man And the contagion possesseth euery part of him some more some lesse being vniuersally spread ouer the body and yet hereby it is not proued to be the true nature and sound constitution of the bodie but a preuailing humor and when
Paule in the foresaid place that those that come to it must not take the honor to themselues but must be called vnto it as Aaron was to wit visibly and by peculiar consecration and must come to it in this ordinarie maner which our Sauiour termed to enter in by the doore Ioh. 10. to wit by Christ who visibly sent his Apostles saying Euntes docete omnes gentes baptizantes eos c. Matth. vlt. and Ioh. 20. vsing a peculiar ceremonie Qui sufflauit in eos he breathed vpon them saying Accipite Spiritum sanctum quorum remiseritis peccata remittuntur eis quorum retinueritis retenta sunt and are not forgiuen them By which words visibly was giuen to the Apostles both power to absolue from sinnes and a vertuall commandement to the people to make confession to them of all their mortall sinne since without this confession they could not tell what to remit and when to retaine sinnes The which Apostles being thus visibly by our Sauiour called consecrated and sent did visibly by imposition of hands ordeine others their successors and these others from time to time without interruption vntill this present men who now are Priests and Pastors in the Catholicke Romane Church These therefore I say enter in by Christ the doore and therefore are true Pastors and whosoeuer entreth in anie other way our Sauiour in the same place hath told vs how to account of them where he saith Qui non intrat per ostium in ouile ouium sed ascendit aliunde fur est latro who cometh not to feed the sheepe but to steale kil and destroy them So that we haue not to expect any to be sent of God to teach and instruct vs in faith but such as come in this ordinary maner as it is certain Luther and Caluin did not come The Answer 1 In this place the Iesuite to shew we haue not the Church excepteth against our Pastors and particularly against Luther and Caluin as if they had no lawfull calling to preach as they did And indeed it is a certaine truth that all true Pastors in the Church of God taking vpon them to instruct his people must haue a calling thereunto and be sent of God as the texts alledged do well proue Heb. 5.4 2. Chron. 26.18 Mat. 28.19 Ioh. 10.1 and 20.22 And if anie man leape out of the Church forsaking that company wherein lawful succession vndoubtedly is and with the succession lawfull sending froÌ„ God he must be reputed a hireling that cometh to destroy For this is the touchstone whereby true teachers are discerned and the contrarie discouered And by this we know the Pastors of our Church against whom the Iesuite excepteth to be legitimate For the God of heauen sent them and when they came they leaped not out of the Church otherwise then the wheate doth out of the chaffe when it is winnowed neither did they teach anie thing that was new or contrarie to the Church but continued and reformed the ancient doctrine which the Papacie in the Church had corrupted And let the reader remember which I haue often answered in this booke that the Popish religion and abuses of all sorts in processe of time grew as a leprosie vpon the Church and as I may say incorporated themselues therewith by reason whereof things good euill were mingled together Gods word with mans traditions the true Sacraments with mans errors and the externall calling of Ministers with foule corruptions in which case Luther and our teachers renouncing the said errors traditions and corruptions and retaining the rest cannot be said to haue gone out of the Church but to remaine perfectly in it still because that which they left was not vniuocally of the church but only in conceit was reputed so In the Church of Rome knowne by that name and in no other in these Westerne parts were the true Scriptures Sacraments Callings and Successions euery part of true faith and necessarie doctrine but these things were not the Papacie against which we go the Papacie was and is that which ouer and besides was by degrees added to them And therefore our Pastors leapt not out of the Church which alwayes goeth with the truth but out of the Papacie and preaching by vertue of that externall mission which they receiued in the Papacie they had the vndoubted commission of Christ whereto they had right And euen as when a faire poole of water becometh in time corrupted weedes grow the mudde increaseth and frogs creepe into it the owner thereof cutteth a channell and leauing the corruption drawes the water to another place and so occupieth it without danger and the frogs remaining must not complaine the water is theirs because the pit wherein they remaine is it that first ingendred it no more may the Papacy accuse vs for going out of the church of Rome as long as we left nothing behind vs but the frogs and weedes and that which was the ancient water before they came we are whose growing vpon vs was the cause that we separated although they succeeded in the Church as the weeds and frogs did in the poole 2 The Iesuite obiecteth that God hath planted a Church to endure in all ages wherein he will haue a visible succession of teachers preserued from failing in the true faith therefore none are sent of God but such as come in this ordinarie maner called and succeeding visibly and with peculiar consecration which Christ termeth entring in by the doore The Antecedent whereof is false For though Gods ordinance be that he haue a Church and teachers therein in all ages succeeding one another and standing in the truth yet he hath made no law that this succession shall be visible or with peculiar consecration as the Iesuite meaneth them For by visible he vnderstandeth conspicuous at al times to all the world which is a foolish assertioÌ„ a § 17. And so forward to the 24. confuted in it owne place where he disputed it It is sufficient that the succession of the Pastors in the Church be visible to the children of the Church And by peculiar consecration b Dom. Bann he meaneth the Popish ceremonie of Orders which is a priuate inuention of the later times and the proper corruption that grew to the outward ordination and calling of Ministers which God appointed Let these false definitioâ—s be remoued and the succession and calling and consecration be expounded as God meant them when he said they should alway be in the Church and our Pastors haue them as I haue answered c §. 52. n. 5. §. 53. and so forward before Yea our verie aduersaries denie not but a man may be a lawfull Minister though a Bishop neuer consecrated him and whereas the common opinion in the Church of Rome is that a Bishop differeth not from a Priest in order but in iurisdiction onely hence it followeth vnauoidably that iure diuino a simple priest in some cases may ordaine because
vnrighteousnesse what communion hath light with darknesse or what concord hath Christ with Belial or the temple of God with idols It is in vaine therefore to hope for reconciliation of things so farre vnlike vnlesse our aduersaries would wholly renounce their parts and embrace the truth which n 2. Thess 2.11 they will neuer do Many meanes haue bene vsed but neuer anie could preuaile The Emperours Ferdinand and Maximilian trauelled painfully herein and by their appointment Cassander a great learned Papist drew o Consult de Artic. controu ad Iâ—app a proiect to shew his iudgement And in the time of Charles the fift it was much laboured in Germanie to accord the sides both by Papists and Protestants And it is p Act colloqu Ratisbon an 2â—41 Lindan L de querela pacis Praefat. reported that at a meeting at Regenspurge there was an agreement made of many weighty points touching Free will Originall sinne Iustification Faith Merits Traditions the Masse c. but this held not neither indeed can the wit of man auoide that q 1. Cor. 11.19 2. Thess 2.8 inde which God will haue for the triall of his Church and manifesting of his truth There is in our aduersaries that refractarie frowardnesse that they seeke nothing but to be contrarie vnto vs and euen hate the name of peace This opinion r De Grat. lib. Arb l 5. c. 1. saith Bellarmine we imbrace and defend so much the more willingly by how much it displeaseth our aduersaries and especially Caluin Å¿ Maldon comment in Ioh. 6. Another expounding a place of Scripture saith Though I haue no author for my exposition yet I allow it rather then that of Austin and others though it be most probable because this of mine more crosseth the sence of the Caluinists 4 Hauing therefore to do with aduersaries so contentious with doctrine so pernicious with a Church so diseased it is a better way to examine the questions and betake our selues to the true part then to hope for that which will not be And this was the course that the Christians tooke when the Church in ancient times was vexed with Arianisme and Pelagianisme They were not indifferent which side preuailed but they claue fast to the truth they did not neutralize betweene both they did not idly sit and deride those that contended for the truth they made not the questions of religion the matter of their quarrels and rude discourse in Tauernes and streetes and euery base companie but with godly affection they lamented the Churches trouble and with zealous consciences and earnest prayer and religious endeuour they sought the faith This is the way that all men should take now when the rumor of the contention groweth so great 1. with HVMILITIE to craue at Gods hand the direction of his Spirit 2. then with DILIGENCE to reade and learne the Scripture whereby to iudge 3. and so with LOVE to the persons of the men and with a mind prepared to yeeld to the truth to trauell through the questions The want of which no doubt is the true cause why contentions grow and questions multiply and all things are vncertain For the preachings and writings of learned men are licentiously censured afore they be vnderstood the most people making the same onely a matter to cauill at neuer considering with what religious hands they ought to touch the questions of faith wherin whosoeuer erreth loseth no lesse then his soule thereby The questions of faith and all matters of religion require in such as will profitably exercise themselues therein three things Humilitie of mind because they concern the holy things of God Diligence in attending because they are spiritually discerned and strength of iudgement because enemies and seducers are exceeding cunning to beguile a slothfull examiner and deceiue him that considereth not attentiuely 5 Our aduersaries that manage the Papacie if euer any haue expressed this cunning and skill in perswading and setting forth their heresie so farre that it cannot be denied they haue omitted no art that might set it forth nor no diligence that might adorne it We reade strange things of certaine painters how admirably they cast and shadowed their workes but the skilfullest painters that euer were are our Iesuits and Schoolmen and others the workmen for the Church of Rome Not the famous Zeuxis t Plin. l. 35 c. 9. who wrote vnder his table when he had drawne it that men should sooner enuy then imitate him was to be compared to these painters not the ancient Polignotus nor Parrhasius not Mycon Timanthes Bularchus Phidias did euer bestow such pains on their images as these haue done on their idol the Papacie specially the Iesuite who as Plinie u Lib. 35. c. 10. noteth of Parthasius is soecundus artifex sed quo nemo insolentius arrogantius sit vsus gloria artis a workman full of deuice but no man vseth the reputation of his skil more proudly and arrogantly then he Zeuxis being to make the image of Iuno to hang vp in her temple chose out certain virgins to put the seuerall beautie of them all into his picture so haue these painters made choise of the exquisitest deuices that all the heresy in the world could yeeld to put the same into their religion no policie in Machiauell nor Sophistry in Aristotle nor eloquence in Rhetorick but they haue contriued it into their Image that saue truth and sinceritie there is nothing wanting Tertullian saith As the Gentiles with their hands so heretickes with their words are the makers of idols for euery lie that they speake of God is a kind of idolatry The Prophet Esay x C. 44. v. 12. setteth downe a liuely description of this matter The Smith taketh an instrument and worketh in the coles and fasteneth it with hammers and worketh it with the strength of his armes the Carpenter stretcheth out a line he fashioneeh it with a thred and plaineth it and pourtrayeth it with the compasse and maketh it after the figure of a man and according to the beauty of a man that it may remaine in a house He heweth him downe Cedars and Pine trees and Okes and he taketh thereof and burneth it and warmeth himselfe and baketh his bread yet he maketh a god and worshippeth it an idol and boweth downe before it he burneth the halfe of it in the fire and vpon the half of it he eateth his meate he rosteth it and is satisfied also he warmeth himselfe and saith Aha I am warm I haue bin at the fire and the residue therof he maketh a god euen his idol wherto he boweth yea he worshippeth and prayeth vnto it saying Deliuer me for thou art my god In which words the God of heauen deriding the Gentile doth very fitly shew vs the idolatry of Rome and the maner how the idol religion therof was framed and set on foote At the first it was but a rude block and ragged trunk rough hewne by
repugnance although that which he saith seeme absurd to our sence and thought This I proue For vnlesse there were such an infallible rule prouided it were impossible for anie man especially for anie vnlearned man in all points infallibly to learne and hold the true faith and since it is impossible it is no way to be thought but that almighty God who is so desirous that all men should come to the knowledge of the truth consequently to saluation did prouide that infallible rule or meanes sufficient to instruct euery one in all points by which it might be possible for thē to attaine to the true knowledge of infallible faith by that to saluation The Answer 1 This fourth conclusion conteineth two members First that God hath left in the world some certen rule and meanes wherby we may infallibly be instructed what is to be holden for true faith this you may freely grant him with that which he inferreth thereupon that the onely cause why a man misseth the truth is either because he doth not find this rule or hauing found it he will not obey it The second is that this rule is left to all men indifferently so that euery man without exception of what estate or faculty soeuer may haue accesse vnto it be instructed This mēber includes 2. sences First that the rule is of that nature that it is able to direct any man be he neuer so simple yea the most vnlearned aliue may conceiue vnderstand it sufficiently for his saluation This you shall also yeeld him as an vndoubted truth Next that all men at all times may haue accesse vnto it as being a thing concealed from none but visible and reuealed to all places ages and persons And this to be a part of the Iesuits meaning I gather by the words of his eighteenth section where he concludeth the Church to be the rule alway visible Because otherwise men sometimes viz. when it were inuisible should want a rule to instruct them contrary to that of Paul that God would haue all men to be saued and come to the knowledge of his truth this he could not haue said if his meaning in this place the ground of his speech there were not that the rule of faith is euermore and in all places visible and manifested to all men indifferently a point meerely false and smelling of Pelagianisme 2 For before Christ it was reuealed only to the Iewes and not to the Gentiles except some particular persons as appeareth plainly both by obseruation g Psal 76.1 103.7 147.19 Mat. 10.5 Act. 14 16. 16.6 Rom. 3.2 the text And experience sheweth how at this day the Lord hath concealed the meanes of saluation from the Turke and infinite other barbarous gentiles of whom it cannot be said that he hath left vnto them this entire rule but that in his iudgement many times secret but alway iust he hath denied it them seeing as h Rom. 1.16 the Apostle speaketh the Gospell of Christ is the power of God vnto saluation both to Iew and Gentile i 1. Cor. 1.21 and when the world by wisedome knew not God in the wisedome of God it pleased God by the foolishnesse of preaching to saue thē that beleeue And k Epist 107. ad Vital circa med Austin saith It is a most manifest truth that many cannot be saued not because themselues will not but because God will not and the contrary he confuteth as Pelagianisme But if I mistake the Iesuite and he meane the words in the first sence it is well and we both agree To the place of Timothy concerning Gods willing all men to be saued l Deus vult omnes homines saluos fieri id est omnes homines qui saluātur saluos sieri nullus enim nisi eo volente saluatur Vel sit distributio non pro singulis generum sed pro generibus singulorū quia de quolibet genere statu hominum vult aliquos saluos fieri Greg. Arimin pag. 165. l. 1. I shall answer in the 18. section nu 6. § 4. Fiftly this infallible rule prouided by almightie God as sufficient to instruct euery one aswell learned as vnlearned in all points of faith must haue three properties or conditions First it must be infallible most vndoubted sure For otherwise faith grounded and built vpon it cannot be infallible certaine and sure Secondly it must be such as may be easily and plainly knowne to all sorts learned and vnlearned For otherwise be it neuer so certaine and sure in it selfe yet if it be vnknowne or vncertainely knowne vnto them it cannot be to them a rule or infallible meane whereby they may attaine to the infallible knowledge of the true faith Thirdly it must be most vniuersall that it may not onely make vs know certainly what is the true faith in some one or two or more points but absolutely in all points of faith For otherwise it is not a sufficient rule whereby we may attaine to an entire faith which integritie of faith is necessarie to saluation as hath bene proued The Answer 1 To these three properties of the rule of faith we must adde two more if we will shew all the nature thereof First that it be not partiall addicted more to one side then another Secondly that it be of power and authority able to conuince the conscience of such as vse it and from the which there can be no appeale For neither can it be a rule of the truth which it selfe is crooked with affection neither may we safely rely vpon it if either it dismisse our consciēce wauering or admit a superior rule whereto we may appeale And the reason is because our faith and knowledge must be m Col. 2.2 Basil Reg. contract qu. 95. with full assurance and perswasion the which we cannot obtaine vnlesse the rule giue it vs and nothing can giue it but that which hath a coactiue power to bind the conscience and to stay it at his owne tribunal 2 Next the second property must be expoūnded that the rule be easie and plaine to all sorts of men learned and vnlearned to wit which vse the means and are diligent in attending it be enlightned by the spirit of God To all such it is plaine be they neuer so vnlearned to the rest it is not neither is it a necessary condition of the rule so to be Not because it selfe is obscure at any time but for that sometimes men haue not eyes to see into it For all meanes and rules are vaine vnlesse God giue eyes to see as n Gen. 21.19 he opened Hagars eyes to see the well of water according to that of Dauid o Psal 119.18 open mine eyes that I may see the wonders of thy law and p Esa 29.10 Pro. 14 6. Luc. 8.10 Ioh. 8.43.47 1. Cor. 2.14 2. Cor. 3.14 4.3 the Scripture teacheth the point manifestly So saith q In. Ioh. lib. 1.
informe vs to euerie good work to teach vs Christ crucified g 1. Cor. 2.2 and Paul desired to know no more to giue vs light in darknesse to beget our faith Shall we be reuoked from al other teachers to theÌ„ and finally is there no councell no comfort no doctrine no resolution needfull for vs but there it may be found and yet it cannot be the rule it is impious to thinke it blasphemous to say it The primitiue Church spake farre otherwise 4 And consider how the Iesuit can answer the places without tergiuersatioÌ„ h Ep. 80. â—d Eustat medicuÌ„ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 p. 334 Basil saith Let the holy Scripture be arbitrator betweene vs and whosoeuer hold opinions consonant to those heauenly oracles let the truth be adiudged on their side Optatus disputing against a Donatist thus presseth him i Cont. ParmeÌ„ lib 5. We are saith he to enquire out some to be iudges betweene vs in these controuersies the Christians cannot because both sides cannot yeeld them and by parts taking the truth shal be hindred The iudge must be had from without our selues If a Pagan he knowes not the mysteries of Christianitie if a Iew he is an enemie to baptisme therefore vpon the earth no iudgement concerning this matter can be found * De coelo quaerendus est iudex et qui in tumulo quiescit tacitis de tabulis loquitur viuus voluÌ„tas eius velut in testamento sic in Euangelio inquiratur the iudge must be had from heauen but to what end should we knocke at heauen when here we haue one in the Gospell k Contra Hermog TertulliaÌ„ calleth the Scriptures the rule of faith And l Hom. 13. in 2. Cor. Chrysostome a most exquisite rule and exact squire and ballance to try all things by And m Orat. de iis qui adeuÌ„t Hicrosol 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Gregory Nyssen a straite and inflexible rule Austin n De bono viduit c. 1. tom 4. saith the Scripture pitcheth downe the rule of our faith And againe he o De. Nupt. concup ad Valer l 2. c. 33. saith This controuersie depending betweene vs requires a iudge let Christ therefore iudge and let the Apostle Paul iudge with him because Christ also speaketh in his Apostle And p Ep. 112. ad Paulin. againe If a matter be grounded on the cleare authority of the holy Scripture such I meane as the Church calleth canoniall it is to be beleeued without all doubt but as for other witnesses and testimonies vpoÌ„ whose credit any thing may be vrged vnto vs to beleeue it it is lawfull for thee either to credit or not to credit them according as thou shalt perceiue them of weight to deserue or not to deserue credit q De Error profan relig Arcana ProphetaruÌ„ veneranda paÌ„dantur ad sistat nobis sanctorum oraculorum fides pag. 61 Iulius Firmicus Let the mysteries of the Prophets be opened let the credit of the holy oracles stand by vs. r Ho. 1. in Ier. Origen We must of necessitie call the Scriptures to witnesse for our sences and interpretations without them are of no credit Å¿ De doctr Christ lib. 2. c. 9 Austin All points which concerne faith and good life are found in those things which are plainly set downe in Scripture t Ibid. c. 42. And whatsoeuer thing it be that a man learne out of the Scripture if it be hurtfull there it is condemned if it be profitable there it is found u Catech. 4 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 pag 15. Cyril the Bishop of Ierusalem Concerning the holy and heauenly mysteries of faith we must not deliuer any thing though neuer so small without the holy Scripture neither may we be led away with probabilities and shew of words neither yet beleeue me barely saying these things vnto you vnlesse thou also receiue the demonstration thereof from the Scripture For the security of our faith ariseth from the demostration of the holy Scripture x Theod. â—â—it lib. 1. c. 7. pag. 2â—4 The Empereur Constantine in his speech to the Bishops of the Nicen Councel hath this memorable saying y 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. We haue the teaching of the holy Ghost written For the Euangelicall and Apostolicke bookes and the decrees of the old Prophets do euidently teach vs the things that are needfull to be knowne concerning God Therefore lâ—ying aside all contention let vs out of the diuine-inspired Scripture take the resolution of those things we seeke for Thus the ancient Church would neuer haue spoken if it had bene of the Iesuites mind that the Scriptures alone cannot be the rule to direct our faith 5 And very common sense may confirme their iudgement For if the written word be granted to be the rule in one point as z August de Trinit lib. 15. cap. vltim in the Trinitie for example who may deny it to be the rule in another seeing the rule is but one for all and the nature thereof is to be perfect as the Iesuit himselfe requireth Again what father what councell or Churches iudgement is so absolute what doctrine or exposition so likely a Act 17.11 Ioh. 5.39 but it is examined by the Scriptures And when the Papists haue said what they can they are constrayned to grant that all other authority is finally resolued into the authoritie of the Scripture these are the words of Gregory of Valence b Comment Theolog. in Thom. tom 3. disp 1 qu. 1. punct 1. pag. 31. If a man be asked why he beleeues for example that God is one in nature and three in person let him answer because God hath reuealed it If againe he be demanded how he knoweth that God hath reuealed it let him answer that indeed he knoweth it not euideÌ„tly but beleeueth it infallibly by faith and that vpon no other reuelatioÌ„ c bene tamen ob insallibâ—lem propositionem Ecclesiae tanquam conditionem but yet the infallible proposition of the Church as a condition requisite for the beleeuing it doth wel moue him theruÌ„to d Sirursus vnde cognoscat propositionem Ecclesiae esse infallibilems fimiliter dicat se clarè noÌ„ nosse credere tamen fide infallibili ob reuelationeÌ„ Scripturae testimonio perhibentis Ecclesiae cui reuelationi noÌ„ credit ob aliam reuelationem sed ob seipsam If again you aske And how doth he know the proposition of the Church to be infallible let him likewise say he knoweth it not euidently but beleeueth it infallibly because the Scripture hath reuealed it giuing testimony to the Church which reuelation he beleeues not vpon the credit of any other reuelation but for it selfe though hereunto the proposition of the Church as a requisite condition be needfull Let this speech of the Iesuite be well noted 6 Finally the euidence of this truth is such that it conuinceth the Papists themselues many
in Gen. the Fathers then to call vpon the people to get them Bibles to reade them to examine that they heare by theÌ„ and sharply to rebuke the negligence of such as did it not 11 It is a common reproch layd vpon our people that they reade the Scriptures in their houses and the translations thereof be nothing else but profanations of the Bible and this gracelesse conceit like blasphemous Atheists they vrge as z Nunc haec Scripturarum profanatio verius quà m translatio non soluÌ„ zonaâ—ios bouilos pistores saitores sutores verùm etiaÌ„ zonarias bouilas pistrices sattrices sutrices facit nobis apostolas prophetissas doctrices Hos de sacro vernac legend pag. 162. rudely exclaiming withall a Alphons Castrens de punit haeret l. 3. c. 6. Ouand breuil in 4. d. 13. prop. 13. that this is a principall cause to increase heresie and such like all which being compared with the practise of the Primitiue and Apostolicke Church you may freely iudge how truly the Iesuite saith b §. afterward his Romane church neuer altered any one point of religioÌ„ For thus writeth c De curand Graecorum affect l. 5. Theodoret of his times You shall euery where see these points of our faith to be knowne and vnderstood not onely by such as are teachers in the Church but euen of coblers and smithes and websters and all kind of artificers yea all our women not they onely which are booke-learned but they also that get their liuing with their needle yea maidseruants and waiting women and not citizens onely but husbandmen of the countrey are very skilfull in these things yea you may heare among vs ditchers and neat-heards and woodsetters discoursing of the Trinitie and the creation c. The like is reported by others And what maruell for the laitie was accustomed to the text of the Bible as wel as the learned yong children and women as well as others and d Hosius de expres Dei verbo his doctrine that was president in the Trent conspiracie that a distaffe was fitter for women then the Bible was not yet hatched e Socrat. l. 5. c. 8 Nicep l. 12. c. 12. Nectarius of a Iudge was made Bishop of Constantinople and f Socrat. l. 4. c. 30. Nicep l. 11. c. 32. Ambrose of a Deputie Bishop of Millan g Photius epist ad Nicol. Pap. apud Baron to 10. an 862. nu 47. Gregorie the father of Nazianzene and Thalassius the Bishop of Caesarea of lay men were made Bishops which shewes how diligent lay men were in the word of God that they could be able to sustaine the office of a Bishop h Euseb lib. 6. c. 3. Origen from his childhood was taught the Scriptures and gat them without booke and questioned with his father Leonides a holy martyr who reioyced in it about the difficult sences thereof So i Basil epist 74. Macrina Basils nurse taught him the Scripture of a child after the example of Timothy and k Georg. Laodic apud Sozom l. 3. c. 6. Emesenus from his infancy was vsed to the word of God l Niceph. Callist l. 8. c. 14. Many lay men among whom was the famous Paphnutius being very learned came to the Nicene councell m Nazianz. orat funeb in Gorgon Gorgonia the sister of Nazianzene was well learned Hierom n Epitaph Paulae writes of Paula a gentlewoman how she set her maides to learne the Scripture and many of his writings are directed to women commending their labour in the Scripture and encouraging them thereto as to Paula Eustochium Saluina Celantia c. which he would not haue done if he had bene a Papist o Cyril Alexand contra Iulian lib. 6. It was the reproch that Iulian the apostata laid on the Christians that their women were medlers with the Scriptures and from him the Papists haue borrowed it But p Col. 3.16 the Apostles counsell is rather to be followed Let the word of Christ dwell in you plentifully in all wisedome teaching and admonishing your selues Vpon which place saith Hierom Hence we see that lay men must haue the knowledge of the Scriptures and teach one another not onely sufficiently but also abundantly And the Greeke scholiast Christ will haue his doctrine dwell in vs very plentifully and that by searching the Scripture § 6. First because they faile in the first condition which I said before was requisite For thee translations are not infallible as the rule of faith must be For neither were the Scriptures immediatly written by the holy Ghost in this language neither were the translators assisted by the same Spirit infallibly infallibly I say that is in such sort as it were impossible they should erre in any point Since therefore the translator as being but a man may erre to say nothing of that which by Gregorie Martin is proued by the often change and variable translations is shewed that some haue erred how can a man and especially an vnlearned man who hath not sufficient learning meanes nor leisure to compare the translation with the prime authenticall 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or originall be infallibly sure that this particular translation which I haue or you haue do not erre And if in some places it erre how can I he infallibly sure that in there places which do seeme to fauour your side it doth not erre vnlesse you will admit an infallible authoritie in the Church to assure vs that such or such a translation doth not erre of which authoritie I shall say more hereafter The Answer 1 This section containeth the Iesuites first argument to proue that the Scriptures translated into English cannot be the rule of faith and thus it may be concluded The rule is infallible and free from error But the English translation is not infallible and free froÌ„ error Therfore the English translation is not the rule Whereunto I briefly answer two things the first is that the conclusion may be granted for we do not thinke this or that translation to be the rule and iudge but onely that it is a means whereby the diuine truth which is the rule is made knowne to vs for we put a difference betweene the doctrine taught in the Scripture and the meanes whereby the doctrine is vttered to our capacitie as betweene things and words The former is the rule the latter the vessell wherein the rule is presented to vs which in the originall is perfect but in all translations defectiue more or lesse See my answer to § 5. nu 1. 2. 2 Next to the argument that our translations are not infallible I answer An edition or translâ—tion of the Scripture may be erronious many wayes and one way is in respect of the words onely and not of the sence for so it may be corrupt that is to say not altogether so perfect as it should be Now this doth nothing hinder the truth of the matter or the
integritie of the text This distinction is a Relect. princip doctrin contriou 5. q. 3. art 3. pag. 525. D. Stapletons and therefore the Iesuite must admit it and it is the truth for no translation can fully expresse the idiom or propertie of the originall language and words and phrases may be defectiue and all secondary causes haue their impediments all which may in their kind be truly called errors and we deny not but our English translation and the Latin vulgar too is subiect to them but this hindereth not the truth of the matter nor the perfection of the text saith D. Stapleton 3 And therefore that which the Iesuite vrgeth against our translations is of no force because it proueth no error in matter but inwards onely as I haue said before for we graunt as he saith the Scripture was not written immediatly in English neither was the translator assisted by the holy Ghost in such sort that he could not erre in any point but being a man be might erre for he might erre in his owne worke which he did himselfe viz. in words and proprieties but in the matter contained which is Gods work he could not holding him to the originall Hebrew and Greeke which our translator did or at the least it was not vnpossible but he might truly and faithfully translate without any new inspiration though he were a man otherwise subiect to error because the originall might leade him and many other meanes might direct and admonish him and discouer his error else what will the Iesuit say when an ordinarie Pastor preacheth Gods word to the people For that which he deliuereth may be free from error and yet his voice is a humane worke and himselfe hath no immediate or infallible inspiration The very same reason is there of translations for a diuine work propounded by a humane meanes may be free from error which I further proue by Bellarmines owne confession who speaking of the vulgar Latin b Admittimus enim interpretem non esse prophetam errare potuisse tamen dicimus eum noÌ„ errasse in illa versione quam ecclesia probaâ—it De verbo Dei l. 2. c. 11. saith He admitteth the translator was no Prophet but subiect to error yet he could not erre in that translation which the Church allowed where he granteth that some translatioÌ„s done by a man subiect to error may yet be free if the Church allow it Now the Church hath allowed our English and we say ours is the true Church and therefore the translator though he were but a man did not erre Againe thus I reason if the Latin translator were freed from erring that is to say might erre but yet did not then our English translator may be freed likewise because he hath the same meanes for if the approbatioÌ„ of the church exempted him ours also hath the same approbation but that could not exempt him for it was extant and therefore was free from error if euer it were so at al c It began to be receiued about the time of Gregory the great who entred his Papacy in the yeare 590 saith Baron annal toÌ„ 2. an 231. nu 47. but was neuer declared to be authenticall till the Councell of Trent Sess 4. anno 1546. a thousand yeares or at the least some time afore the Church either allowed it for authenticall or could take notice of it And when the Councel of Trent did approue it it put no other truth into it then was there before but onely declared it to be true It followeth therefore that the translator was preserued from error by no other meanes and why might not the same direct ours also as namely the infallible and perpetuall veritie of the doctrine it selfe translated the direction of Gods spirit his owne diligence meanes skill faithfulnesse and the Churches carefull ouersight 4 The summe of all is this that our English Bible containeth two things the Doctrine and the Translation d 1. Tim 3.16 2. Pet. 2.20 The Doctrine was inspired of God written by men infallibly assisted by the holy Ghost and therefore is free from error and so coÌ„sequently the Scripture translated into English in respect of the matter is infallibly true because it was done by the immediate inspiration of the spirit of God The translation was done by the ministerie of the Church and industrie of certaine men who though they had no supernaturall inspiration or priuiledge from error yet we know infallibly they haue not erred in the matter by the same meanes whereby we know other truths and discerne other articles of Christian faith namely by the light of the doctrine translated the testimony of the spirit the ministery of the word the rules of art the knowledge of the tongues and such like 5 To that which the Iesuite faith out of Gregory Martin I answer that Martin hath said something against our translations but proued nothing Doctor Fulkes confutation of his discouery lieth yet vnanswered and long must do Martin cannot giue one instance of the sence corrupted his exceptions are childish if you reade his booke But as e De opt gen interpret ad Pammach Ierome said of some that vnskillfully reproued his translations so I may answer Martin and the Iesuite These and such like toyes are scored vp for our hainous faults Martin missed it farre as f Treatise of Renuntiat p. 156. some of his fellowes charge him producing the Councell of Trent against him when he allowed Recusants to go to Church with a Protestation He that was so short in his proofes at home might be as wide in his discoueries abroad And if the g Palaephat de Fabul non credent Lamia would haue pluckt his eyes out of his boxe and vsed them at home as well as he did abroad he might haue seene some errors also in his owne vulgar Latin whereof I will say something in the seuenth digression 6 His next reason is that the often change and variable translations do shew that some haue erred Whereto I answer two things First though it be granted that some haue erred yet hence it followeth not that all haue which is the point he must proue else he were as gond say nothing For we defend the Scriptures well and faithfully translated not this or that mans edition whereof our Church taketh no notice whether it be pure or no. It is sufficient for the veritie of our assertion that in the Church there be some translations faithfull and agreeing with the originall 7 Secondly we do not deny but our translations varie and haue bene altered according to h Posseuin biblioth select l. 2. cap. 8. inde Sixt. Senens biblioth Sanct. lib. 8. haeres 13. Bellar. de verb. Dei l. 2. cap. 8. Caesar Baron tom 2. an 231. Aug. de doctr Christ lib. 2. cap. 11. the example of the primitiue Church before vs. But this variety hath bin in the words and style and not in any materiall
l. 11. c. 3. Ecclesiam esse regulam infallibileÌ„ proponendi explican li veritates fidei non potest reduci ad authoritateÌ„ ipsius Ecclesiae Hoc enim esset idem per idem confirmare sed necesse est reducere hunc assensum ad testimonium Spiritus sancti in â—linantis per â—umen fidei â—d â—oc credibile â—ccleâ—ia non â—otest errate Dom. Ban 22. q. 1. art 1 pag. 17. Austin be wel considered Moses that writ these things O God is gone to thee if he were now before me I would desire him to open them to me and I would heare him if he spake Hebrew I could not vnderstand him if he spake Latin I could know what he said but how should I know whether he spake the truth And if I did know it could I know it from him For within me in the inner parlour of my thought there is neither Hebrew nor Latin â—or Barbarian truth that could say Moses saith true that I should presently being certaine and confident say to him thy seruant thou sayest the truth Therefore seeing I cannot aske him I aske thee the truth by whose fulnesse he spake the truth thee O my God I beseech pardon my sin and which gauest him power to speake these things giue me also power to vnderstand them Austine would neuer haue enquired thus how he should know whether Moses spake the truth if he had thought the testimonie of the Church could secure vs he could not beleeue the Scripture vpon Moses word then much lesse could he beleeue it on the Churches Yea his words do wholy exclude the authoritie of Moses both totall and partiall 20 The Papists therefore are the patrons of Atheisme t Bellarm de effect Sacram. l. 2. c. 25. who teach that if we take away the authoritie of the present Church and of the Councell of Trent then the whole Christian faith may be called in question for the truth of all ancient Councels and of all points of faith depend vpon the authoritie of the present Church of Rome How much better said u De doctrin Christian l. 1. c. 37. Austin Our faith shall reele and totter if the authority of the Scriptures stand not fast Let these assertions of Papistry be well noted § 9. Thirdly they erre in the third condition For the Scriptures are not so vniuersall as the rule of faith had need to be For this rule ought to be so vniuersall that it may absolutely resolue and determine all points questions and doubts of faith which either haue bene or may hereafter fall in controuersie But the Scriptures alone are not thus vniuersall * Non inficiamur praecipua illa fidei dogmata ad saluteÌ„ omnibus necessaria perspicuè satis comprehendi in Scriptura Coster ench c. 1. For there be diuerse questions of faith and those also touching verie substantiall points which are not expresly set downe and determined in the Scripture As namely that those books which are generally holden for Scripture are euery one the true word of God For this in particular of euery booke holden for Scripture we shall not find expresly written in anie part of the Scripture This part therefore whereupon dependeth the certaintie of euery other point proued out of Scripture cannot be made infallibly sure vnto our vnderstanding or beliefe vnlesse we put some other infallible rule whereupon we may ground an infallible beliefe which infallible rule if we admit to assure vs that there is at all anie Scripture and that those bookes and no other are canonicall Scripture why should we not aswel admit it to assure vs infallibly which is the true sence and meaning in all points of the same Scripture The Answer 1 The Iesuits first exception against the Scripture was that it was too difficult now followeth his next that it containeth not all things needfull to be knowne Thus his argument may be concluded The rule must be vniuersall containing all points of faith But such is not the Scripture for many substantiall points are not expresly set downe therein Therefore it is not the rule Whereto I answer denying the assumption for euery point of faith and whatsoeuer else is needfull either to be knowne or done is contained in the scripture so far forth that there is no point question or doubt concerning faith but by the scriptures alone it may absolutely be determined For a 2. Tim. 3.15 it is profitable to teach to reproue to correct and to instruct in all righteousnesse that the child of God may be absolute being made perfect to all good workes 2 But the Iesuite saith there be diuers things not expresly set downe or determined reseruing this word expresly for a starting hole to creepe out at because they be not written word for word in so many syllables But I answer him three things first that the Popish diuinitie is that many points are contained in the Scripture neither thus expresly nor yet at all to be concluded thence by collection for else why make they that opposition betweene the scripture and tradition Secondly if this be his mind then he hath put more into the assumption then was in the proposition for the rule is not bound to containe all things thus expresly Thirdly that is expresly in the scripture which is there set downe either plainly in so many words as b De doctrin Christian l. 2. c. 9. Austine saith All things are that concerne our faith and manners or by analogie when it is necessarily implied in the text For c Alliaco 1. sen qu. 1. art 3. euery such conclusion is a theologicall discourse and hath his warrant from the text and so still the scripture containeth all things needfull 3 Against this the Iesuit hath one argument that it is no where written that these bookes of scripture that we haue are the true word of God Wherto I answer first though this were granted yet would it not follow that all points of faith are not contained in the scripture because in euery profession the principles are indemonstrable assented to without discourse and the scriptures are the principles of religion and therefore first we must grant them to be the very word of God and then say they are such as containe all points needfull to be knowne This then which the Iesuite requireth to be shewed out of the text it selfe is first to be supposed yea beleeued that it is the true word of God whereto we are perswaded by the heauenly light it selfe Secondly I wonder at the Iesuites confidence that dareth so boldly say that of euery booke holden for scripture we find it not expresly written that they are the true word of God for Saint Paul d 2. Tim. 3.16 saith expresly All Scripture is giuen by inspiration of God and Saint Peter e 2. Pet 1.20 Luc. 1.70 saith No prophecie in the Scripture is of priuate interpretation but the holy men of God spake as they were moued by
though he alledged the words thereof absurdly wrested The sheepe therefore casteth not away her fleece though the wolfe sometime put it on else the Iesuite must renounce the authoritie of his Church also because sectmasters sometime alledge it But euen as he will say they alledge it indeed but yet either not the true Church or the true Church not truly so I say sectmasters alledge the scripture indeed but either not the true Scripture or the Scripture not truly And let the Iesuite remember that h Defence of the censure against Chark pag. 166. a good friend of his excuseth the blasphemous comparison of those that liken the Scripture to i CeÌ„sur Colon. pag. 112. Pigh hierarch l. 3. c. 3 p. 103. and others a nose of waxe by this that heretickes wrest and detort it as a nose of waxe is bowed into many formes Digression 15. Against the two former conclusions shewing that priuate and particular companies may sometime be assured of the truth against a pretended Catholicke companie 8 Because the Iesuite pleadeth so for his Catholicke multitude let him consider the Scripture k 1. Thes 5.21 1. Ioh. 4.1 biddeth all men trie what they are taught l Act. 17.11 commending them that examined euen the Apostles teaching and m Math. 7.15 24.4 Esa 8.20 Ier. 23.16 Rom. 16.17 commaunding to beware of false Prophets and n Ios 1.18 Ioh. 5.39 to search the Scriptures o Heb. 5.14 that we might haue our wits exercised to discerne good and euill all which were to no purpose if when we had done we neither could by reading attaine to any certaintie or hauing attained might not hold it against a multitude but were still bound to referre the matter to them which are suspected and whose iudgement is the very thing to be examined Againe p 1. Reg. 22.15 one Michaiah defended the truth against 400. Prophets q Niceph. lib. 8. cap. 19. one Paphnutius directed the whole Councell of Nice Christ and his Apostles withstood the whole Iewish synagogue and r Iob 32.6 Elihu one yong man rebuked the ancients 9 Saint Chrysostome hath a discourse about this point which I thought fit to be propounded A Gentile Å¿ Homil. 33. in Act. saith he cometh and saith I would be a Christian but I know not which side to cleaue vnto many dissentions are among you and I cannot tell which opinion to hold euery one saith I speake the truth and the Scriptures on both sides are pretended so that I know not whom to beleeue to this Chrysostome replieth Truly saith he this maketh much for vs for well might you be troubled if we should say we rely vpoÌ„ reasoÌ„ but seeing we take the Scriptures which are so true and plaine it will be an easie matter for you to iudge and tell me hast thou any wit or iudgement for it is not the part of a man barely to receiue whatsoeuer he heareth but if thou mark the meaning thou maist throughly know that which is good When thou buyest a garment though thou haue no skill in weauing yet thou satst not I cannot buy it they deceiue me but thou doest all things that thou maist learn how to know it say not then I am a scholler and wilbâ— no iudge I can condemne no opinion for this is but a shift and a cauill and let vs not vse it for all these things are easie To the same effect saith t Comment in Nah. c. 2. in fine Hierome It is alway the diuels endeuour to bring the waking soule asleepe therefore at the comming of Christ and his word and the Churches doctrine and when Nineueh that sometime was so beautifull a whore shall haue her end the people which before was lulled asleepe vnder their teachers shal be lifted vp and hasten towards the mountaines of the Scriptures the mountaines Moses and the Prophets and the Apostles and the Euangelists which are the mountaines of the new Testament and when they come to these mountaines and shall be occupied in the reading thereof if they finde none to teach them then their endeuours shal be approued because they flew to the mountaines and the slothfulnesse of their teachers shall be detested Did Hierome in these words expound a Prophet or Prophecy himselfe concerning these later times wherin the whore of Babilon drew toward her end and the profound sleepe of the Romish teachers was such that men were faine to flie to the Scriptures wherby they directed both the slothfulnesse of their labor and the coruption of their doctrine And why not when in many cases the peoples eares are holyer then the Priests heart as the same Hierome saith in u Ad PaÌ„mach adâ—e erro Ioh. Hierosolym another place 10 Moreouer let the Iesuite consider that the learned of his owne side haue left written as much as we say in defence of priuate men that so it may appeare what truth there is in his conclusion when his owne Doctors confute it For thus writeth x Part. 1. de Elect elect potest cap. significasti In concernentibus fidem etiam dictum vnius priuati esset praeferendum dicto Papae si ille moue retur melioribus c. Panormitan One faithfull man though priuate is more to be beleeued then the Pope or a whole Councell if he haue better reason on his side and authoritie of the old and new Testament y De exam doctrin part 1. consid 5. And Gerson more fully The examination and triall of doctrines concerning faith belongeth not onely to the Pope and Councell but to euery one also that is sufficiently seene in the holy Scripture because euery one is a fit iudge of that he knoweth And again some lay man not authorised may yet be so excellently learned in the Scripture that his assertion shall be more to be credited then the Popes definitiue sentence For the Gospell is more to be credited theÌ„ the Pope Therefore if such a lay man though he be priuate teach a truth contained in the Gospell and the Pope either know it not or will not know it yet it is euident that his iudgement is to be preferred z And yet if the Pope neuer so little anger theÌ„ they write asmuch at this day Non saluat Christian quod pontifex constaÌ„ter affirmat praeceptum suuÌ„ esse iustum sed oportet illud examinare se iuxta regulaÌ„ superius datam dirigere tract de interdict composit à Theolog. Venet prop. 13. I know not what these men would haue writ if they had now liued in the Popes Seminaries but this you see they writ before Luther was borne or Seminaries were erected that the Scriptures be the rule to try al things by and the priuatest man that is may by them iudge yea conuince and refuse the Pope and his Councels Which is all that we say for priuate men that hauing the Scripture for their foundation they taught and beleeued against the
meant by those importunate bragges of the Catholicke Church and why the Papists rely so much vpon it x Audito Ecclesiae nominâ— hostis expalluit Campian tat 3. apud Posseu bibl select lib. 7. c. 19. they make their vaunts that the very name of the Church appalleth vs and good reason if the Pope be it Gods enemie and ours But in the meane time themselues might blush thus to tell the ignorant a tale of the Church and will the foolish Protestants be wiser then the Catholicke Church y Nomen callide retinuit tem ipsam funditus desiniâ—ndo fustulit Camp vbi supra and yet this Church when things come to the reckoning is nothing else but the Pope § 14. And first that the doctrine of the vniuersall Church in all points is infallible thus I reason If our Sauiour Christ haue promised to any company of men the assistance of himselfe and of his holy Spirit for this speciall purpose to teach and instruct them in euery truth giuing withall peculiar commission to them to teach all nations and warrant and commandement to all to heare them and to do in all things according to their saying and further threatning that he that will not heare them and do in all things according to their saying should be accounted as an Ethnicke and Publican then certainly the doctrine and the teaching of this companie of men is in all points infallible and most true For looke what he promiseth must needs be performed and whatsoeuer he warranteth or commandeth to be done may safely and without danger of error be done nay must of necessitie be done especially when he threateneth those that will not do it and consequently if he promise to send his holy Spirit to teach anie companie of men all truth it is not to be doubted but that he sendeth this his Spirit and by him teacheth them all truth And since the teaching of this Spirit is infallible we haue not to doubt but that this companie to which this promise should be made should in all points be infallibly taught the truth If also the same our Sauior gaue warrant and commandement that we should heare and do in all points according to the saying of this companie of men being thus infallibly taught and hauing commission to teach we may not likewise doubt but that they shall infallibly teach vs the truth in all points For otherwise by this his commandement we should sometimes be bound to heare and beleeue that which were not true and to do that which were not right and good which without blasphemie to Christs veritie and goodnesse can no way be taught But so it is that Christ our Sauiour hath in holy Scripture promised giuen commission warranted commanded and threatened in maner aforesaid therefore we haue not to doubt but that a certaine companie of men there be to wit that companie which is called the true catholike Church which both is in all points taught infallibly by the holy Spirit and is in like maner to teach vs all truth The promise we haue Mat. vltim Ego vobiscum sum omnibus diebus vsque ad consummationem seculi I am with you all the dayes vnto the end of the world In which words is promised the continuall presence of Christ himselfe the maister of truth with his holy Church not for a while then nor for a while now but all the dayes vnto the end of the world Also we haue another promise Ioh. 14. Ego rogabo Patrem meum alium paracletum dabit vobis Spiritum veritatis vt maneat vobiscum in aeternum I will aske my Father and he will giue you another paraclete that he may remaine with you not onely for sixe hundred yeares but for euer And to shew vs for what purpose he would haue his holy Spirit to remaine with vs for euer he saith againe Cum autem venerit ille Spiritus veritatis docebit vos omnem veritatem Iob. 16. And when the Spirit of truth shall come he shall teach you all truth The commission we haue Mat. vltim Euntes docete omnes gentes The warrant also we haue Luc. 10. Qui vos audit me audit By which words appeareth plainely that our Sauiour Christ would haue vs to heare and giue credit to his Church no lesse then to himselfe The commandement we haue Mat. 23. Super cathedram Mosis sedent Scribae Pharisaei omnia ergo quaecunque dixerint vobis seruate facite Out of which words we may gather that we are commanded in all points to do according to the doctrine of the Prelates of the catholike Church though it should happen that their liues should not be coÌ„mendable or good For though in this place our Sauiour do onely speake of the chaire of Moses in which the priests of the old law did sit yet it must be vnderstood à fortiori of the chaire of S. Peter in which the Priests of the new law do succeed So did the ancient Fathers vnderstand and especially S Austin Epist 165. who saith thus In illum ordinem Episcoporum qui ducitur ab ipso Petro ad Anastasium qui nunc in eadem cathedra sedet etiamsi quisquam traditor per illa tempora subrepsisset nihil praeiudicaret Ecclesiae innocentibus Christianis quibus Dominus prouidens ait de praepositis malis quae dicunt facite quae faciunt facere nolite Into the order of Bishops which is deriued from S. Peter himself vnto Anastasius who now sitteth vpon the same chaire although some traitor had crept in for the time he should nothing hurt or preiudice the Church of the innocent Christians vnto whom our Lord prouiding saith of euill Prelates what they say do what they do do not The threats we may gather out of Luc. 10. where our Sauiour saith Qui vos spernit me spernit He that despiseth you despiseth me signifying what sinne it were not to heare but to despise the preaching of our Sauiour Christ himselfe that we should account it the same sinne to despise and not to giue heed and credite to his catholike Church insinuating thereby a threat of like punishment for the said contempt Also Mat. 18. the same our Sauiour saith Si Ecclesiam non audierit sit tibi sicut Ethnicus Publicanus Thus you see our Sauiour Christ hath promised vnto his Church the continuall assistance of himselfe and of his holy Spirit to teach vs all truth Moreouer that he hath giuen commission to it to teach vs yea and hath warranted and commanded vs in all points to heare and to do according to the saying of his Church and hath threatened greatly those that will not heare the Church which proueth that it pertaineth to this Church to instruct vs in all points of faith that we ought to learne of it in all matters of religion the infallible truth The Answer 1 The drift of all this section is to proue that the doctrine of the vniuersal Church in
say that sometime it could neither it selfe be knowne nor be a meanes by which the true faith might be made knowne then since as I proued it is a necessarie meanes and so necessarie that without it according to the ordinarie course there is not sufficient meanes to instruct all men infallibly in al points of faith then I say men that liued at that time wanted necessarie meanes whereby they might attaine to the knowledge of true faith and consequently whereby they might come to saluation Which if it were so how is it vniuersally true that Deus vult omnes homines saluos fieri ad agnitionem veritatis venire 1. Tim. 2. God would haue all men saued and to come to the knowledge of true faith and thereby by degrees to saluation For without these meanes prouided he knoweth it impossible for them to attaine to saluation and knowing it impossible he cannot be said to will it since no wise man willeth that which he knoweth impossible and much lesse almightie God whose wisedome is infinite whose will is alway ioyfully ioyned with some worke or effect by which that which he willeth at least is made possible to be done The Answer 1 Here the Iesuit hath laid downe two arguments to proue the Church to be alwayes visible the first is because our Sauiour ordained it to be the light of the world and nothing can be such a light which it selfe is inuisible Thus it must be concluded That which Christ ordained to be the light of the world is alway visible But Christ ordained the Church to be the light of the world Math. 5.14 Ergo the Church is alway visible In which argument neither of the parts are true For first it is not true that euery light is alway visible so that granting the Church to be the light of the world which it is yet is it not proued thereby to be alway visible for two causes First because a Gen. 1.16 Psal 136.8 the Sunne and Moone were ordained to be great lights for the gouerning of day and night and yet we see them darkened and suffer strange eclipses So the Church though it be ordained to enlighten the world by ministring the doctrine of the Scriptures sometime may faile out of mens sight as b 1. Reg. 19.10 in the dayes of Elias Therefore c Apo. 12.1.5.6 it is compared to a woman which one while is as visible as any thing can be clothed with the Sunne the Moone vnder her feete and vpon her head a crowne of twelue starres and yet at another time she is driuen into the wildernesse out of the sight of men yea taken vp as it were into heauen there to abide 1260. dayes And concerning the Pastors d Micah 3.6 the Prophet threatneth that Night shall be to the people for a vision and darknesse for a diuination the Sunne shall go downe vpon the Prophets and the day shall be darke ouer them Secondly though it be a light yet such as walk in darknes and loue it better then the light because their deeds are euill and know not the seruants of the light do not alwayes see it but want either will or eyes thereto as e 2. Reg. 6 16. the king of Arams souldiers saw not the mountaine full of horses and chariots of fire that were round about Elisha nor knew that they were in the middest of Samaria till their eyes were opened or possible with the mist of their owne errors or smoke of persecution they may obscure it according to that of the Reuelation f Apoc. 9.1 where it is shewed that a starre falling from heauen the bottomlesse pit was opened and there arose out of it a smoke wherewith the Sunne and the aire was darkened So Saint Austine g Ep. 80. ad Hesych prope fin epist 48. ad Vincent speaketh When the Sunne shall he darkened and the Moone shal not giue her light and the starres shall fall from heauen then the Church shall not appeare by reason vngodly persecutors shall rage out of measure 2 So then where the Church is called a light the meaning is not that it is alway visible or that the externall appearance thereof is plaine to euery eye and at all times for thus the Papists grant their owne Church is not visible but that as the Sunne so it hath in it selfe all light of truth and glorie whereby the children of God are enlightned and the darke wayes of the vngodly detected and except heresies or persecutions come betweene this inward light doth also shew it selfe forth to the world by outward profession and gouernment so as no temporall state is more glorious or conspicuous Which difference betweene the inward and outward light being rightly expounded and obserued the Iesuite may find how it may be the light of the world though sometime by eclipse it become inuisible for at all times and to all men and of it owne nature it is not so 3 Next the other proposition faileth likewise for though the light of the Church be graunted yet it is not true that Christ our Sauiour ordained it to be alwayes the light of the world according to these words Math. 5. Vos estis lux mundi You are the light of the world for those words were spoken by Christ to his disciples and his purpose therein was not to teach what the state of the Church should alway be but to prouoke them to constancie and holinesse forsomuch as they should be in euery mans eye and therefore if they chanced to do otherwise then well it could be concealed no more then the light of the Sunne Now this is nothing to the Churches visiblenesse For the Apostles being set ouer all the world to enlighten it with their teaching as it were Sunne might be in the view thereof and yet the Church afterward with the Pastors therein be suppressed from the sight of her enemies This therefore is a common error of the Papists that whatsoeuer things in the Scriptures are personally affirmed of some particular times and persons they will stretch generally to all 4 His second argument to proue the Church alway visible is because Christ ordained it to be a rule or meanes by which men may come to knowledge of the faith wherein he beggeth the question or as h Rat. 9. Campian the Iesuite telleth vs i Eccum quos gyros quas rotas fabricat Turneth the wheele For being to proue that the Church is the rule of faith k § 16. he said he would do it by shewing the teaching thereof to be infallibly easie and vniuersall and this he would do by prouing it to be alway visible and now he saith it is visible because it is the rule or meanes whereby to finde the truth which is the question and would not haue bin assumed but proued Neuerthelesse his reason shal be examined and considered of for thus it standeth That which Christ appointed to be the rule
Councell are penned so cunningly and i For Apollo his oracles alwaies equiuocated Ambigua semper incerta obliquaque erāt ipsius responsa Iul. Lessign de cognom Deorum lib 1. c. 4. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Scol Aristoph in Pluto oraclewise that they will reasonably beare as many expositions as there shall be opinions and then albeit the contention be neuer so great yet who dares say the contenders submit not themselues to their chiefe Pastor when euerie side shall expound his decree for his owne opinion 8 Moreouer if it were true that all Papists acknowledge the Pope to be their iudge and of such infallible truth in all his teaching that they may and must boldly yeeld all their iudgements and wits to his let them satisfie the world how it fell out that they haue depriued so many Popes yea for heresie for it should seeme in this case that their Church tooke vpon her authority to direct him when he was out of the way and when there haue bene diuers Popes at once k Nullus enim fuit illo tempopore Concilij Constantiēsis certus Papa Caiet tract de author Pap. Con c. 27. ad 6. what time it was vncertaine who was Pope what submission could there be to this chiefe Pastor Or if it be true that a Councell is aboue the Pope which l Cusan concord l. 2. c. 20. 34. Panorm de elect c. significasti Facta capitulorum vniuersitatum quia superiorē habent non sunt aequanda gestis conciliorum vbi solum Deus est superior à quibus non appellatur Aen. Sylu. ep 25. the most and the ancientest Papists beleeue and m Concil Constant Sess 4. 5. Concil Basil Sess 2. two generall Councels decreed how can it be said that Papists holding this opinion depend vpon the Pope as the Iesuite pretendeth 9 Thus we see how the Papists esteeme their Popes at home hey thinke it a perillous matter to be tyed so straightly to him they thinke it lawfull to resist him they beleeue he may fall into heresie yea preach it and practise the destruction of the Church they beleeue a Councell is aboue him and may restraine or depose him they beleeue he and his Councels may erre in euery part and circumstance of his definitions but the conclusion it selfe they haue notoriously maintained opinions against his decrees they haue deposed him and bene in that straight that they knew not who was Pope whereupon I say it is a most intollerable thing to endure the hearing of these loud brags that they make abrode concerning their obedience to him and so willing acceptation of his iudgement for the ending of controuersies and I am firmely perswaded by the experience of their writings behauiour that whatsoeuer they pretend abrode among the ignorāt they haue a most base opinion both of his person and iudgement For Guicciardine a man very neare him n Hist l. 16. writeth that the goodnesse Apostolicke is then commended when he exceedeth not al other men in wickednes And Fr. Victoria speaking of his practise in dispensing o Relect. 4. de potest Pap. Concil Pro. 12. saith Giue me Clements Lines and Siluesters that is Popes as good as were Clemens Linus and Syluester and I wil permit euery thing to their iudgment but that I say no worse against these later Popes certainly they are inferior to those ancient Popes by many degrees 10 But supposing all Papists as the Iesuite speaketh do acknowledge one chiefe Pastor ouer them to whose definitions in all matters they submit themselues yet hence it followeth not that therfore they haue the true vnitie and cannot dissent for p Fere semper seruata haec consuetudo vt acta priorum pontificum sequentes aut infringerent aut omnino tollerent Plat. in Steph. VI. the Pope may be at controuersie with himselfe or possible his mind cannot be known as of a long time it was not when the Friers contended about the conception of the virgin Marie nor is not to this day q Suar tom 2. disp 3. sect 6. the Church hauing defined nothing in this matter and possible r Suar. vbi prius refert as Caietan and Cano haue obserued cannot by reason the opinion that holdeth her conception without sinne is in shew godly but indeed vntrue and vaine But that which is principally to be obiected the spirit of God hath neither giuen him such vprightnesse of iudgment that he can alway define the truth nor put him into such authoritie that men necessarily are bound to obey him the which being true then it will follow that all such as relie most vpon him shall either not consent at all or consent in error and a people may be vnited to the Pope and yet be without the true vnion of Christs Church ſ Nilus l. de primat Neceph Greg. l. 10. hist Rom. c. vlt. And assuredly the Greekes complaine that this vsurpation of the Pope to be head of al Churches and iudge of all matters hath bene the very fountaine of all our diuisions 11 Against this the Iesuite replyeth that the Pope hath infallibility and authoritie of iudgement both giuen him by Christ so that it were impossible his people should dissent and for confirmation hereof he alledgeth 3. texts of Scripture wherein he saith our Sauiour Christ spake of Peter and his successors meaning the Pope and gaue them this power that he speaketh of and so concludeth that by vertue of Christs owne ordinance the Pope is the meanes to vphold the vnitie of the Church whose determinations the Papists receiuing cannot disagree Wherunto I will answer distinctly three things First that in all the words alledged our Sauior meant the rest of the Apostles as well as Peter Secondly whomsoeuer he meant yet the words spoken containe no such thing in them as the Iesuite gathereth Thirdly supposing they were meant of Peter and contained the primacie yet the Pope is not Peters successor and so consequently hath no part in them the which parts of my answer being iustified there wil no doubt remaine but the vnitie of the Romish Church is proclaymed and set forth vpon vncertaine grounds 12 First I say that all these words of Christ I will giue vnto thee the keyes and vpon this rocke I wil build my Church Mat. 16.18 I haue prayed for thee that thy faith faile not Luc. 22.32 and feed my sheepe Ioh. 21.15 were not meant or intended to Peter alone but to the rest of the disciples with him Of the first place in Mat. 16. it is cleare For t Bell. de Ro. pont l. 1. c. 10. §. Ac vt à primo c. 11. § Catholici autem c. 13. §. At no◠Catholici the rocke and the keyes signifie the same thing so that to whō Christ promised the one he promised the other but the keyes and al the power thereof was promised giuen to al alike as is proued for
giuen to nature which belongeth to grace that cannot be without eminent danger But whatsoeuer we haue done in the point this I am sure of that our aduersaries are gone too farre euen by their owne confession There haue not bene wanting Diuines in our times d 22. p. 390. saith Dom. Bannes who haue giuen too much to freewill and the power of nature and while they thought to eschue the error of Lutherans they fell into the proud heresie of Pelagians And * Et 393. to make men free they haue made them proud filled them with sacriledge This is the truth For freewill hath of it selfe either some strength though small or none at all If any then Christ said not true without me ye can do nothing If none then where is freewill and the cooperation thereof with Gods grace I will end the point with Saints Austins complaint e De verb. Apost Ser. 2. Vnthankfull men to ascribe so much to weake wounded nature true it is that man when he was made had great strength of freewill but by sinne he lost it But f Sixt. Senens praefat l. 5. Staplet de Iustif l. 2. c. vlt. our aduersaries thinke Saint Austin went too farre in this question attributing too little to mans will § 41. In the Romane Church I confesse there be some bad and sinfull folke For the Church is called nigra formosa blacke and faire Cant. 1. because in it are mixed good and bad as out of diuerse parables of our Sauiour I proued before but there are two differences betwixt the sinfull which are in the Romane Church and among the sectaries And first of those that are among the sectaries there are none truly Holy of which as of the better or more worthie part their Church may be denominated and termed Holy as the Romane Church may be It may perhaps be that diuers of them abstaine from grosser sinnes as swearing backbiting stealing c. and that they do sometimes many workes morally good as giue almes erect hospitals liue at least in outward shew in modest and moderate sort but alas these be not sufficient or certaine signes of sanctitie all this and perhaps much more we may find in the heathen Philosophers These outward actions may proceed from naturall and sometimes from vicious and sinfull motiues and consequently may be verie farre from true holinesse which must proceede of true charitie without which charitie to distribute all that one hath to feed the poore or to giue ones bodie to burne doth nothing profite 1. Cor. 13. The which charitie must proceed de corde puro conscientia bona fide non ficta 1. Tim. 1. The which things being most inward and consequently hidden and secret cannot sufficiently be shewed to be present by those outward actions Nay they cannot be infallibly knowne of the partie himselfe for Nemo scit vtrum amore an odio dignus sit quis potest dicere mundum est cor meum Pro. 20. but are reserued to him onely qui scrutatur corda to wit almightie God and it cannot be perfectly knowne of vs who haue them truly and consequently who be truly Saints vnlesse it please him to reueale it by miracle or some other certaine way vnto vs. The Answer 1 To proue we are not the holy Church of God the Iesuite obiected our sinfull liues as if we had bene of worse conuersation then the professors of the true faith could be But forsomuch as he wisely foresaw that if we fell to comparing the liues of one another his owne Church would receiue as much disgrace thereby as ours and his argument bent against vs in the discharge would recoile vpon himselfe and roll in the fall vpon the heads of his owne people because they are as bad and sinfull as their fellowes therefore now he answereth that difficultie by assigning a difference betweene the people of his Church and the people of ours in this point and the difference he saith is this that although in his Romane Church there be some bad and sinfull yet all are not so whereas with vs there are none good but all are wicked A proud and ridiculous bragge but yet I answer it True holinesse consisteth in the concourse of the righteousnesse of iustification and sanctification The former of iustification is wheresouer Christ with all his merits is imputed and apprehended by faith for the pardon of our sinnes and accepting of vs againe to eternall life a Rom. 4.11 3.24 This is called the righteousnes of faith and they which haue it are truly holy thereby and our Church teacheth it against the Church of Rome that hath renounced it and so depriued her children of all true holinesse The second of sanctification is when we bring forth fruites worthy of amendment of life not walking after the flesh but after the spirit And we affirme that in our Church this also is ioyned with the former though we all confesse it be in great weaknesse and farre from that perfection which we desire and such as walke in it b 1. Ioh. 3.7 Mat. 7.16 12.33 Rom. 8.9 Gal. 5.22 Eph. 5.9 2. Pet. 1.5 are proued thereby to be truly holy 2 Against this externall righteousnes of our sanctification the Iesuite obiecteth that though we abstaine from grosser sinnes and do many good morall works c. yet this is no certaine signe we are holy for this and much more may proceed from sinfull motions and be found among the very Gentiles Whereto I answer that this were a good argument against vs if we had no righteousnesse among vs but such as he hath herein described For this morall holinesse is no holinesse indeed neither do we thereby declare the holinesse of our Church but say the good workes done among vs proceed from faith and loue and are directed to the glory of God according to the rules of sanctification and so are sufficient to testifie for vs. And we grant as the Iesuit requireth that many great and plausible workes of moralitie may proceed from naturall yea sinful motiues and that therefore there is no true holinesse vnlesse it proceed from charitie grounded on a pure heart and a good conscience and faith vnfained but we adde withall that the workes of our Church proceed from this charitie and thence receiue their condition of holinesse 3 And how doth the Iesuite know the contrary because he saith so confidently the holinesse found among vs ariseth not from charitie What is the ground whereupon he saith so He answereth true charitie a good conscience and faith be things inward and secret and therefore cannot by our outward actions be shewed to be present nay he saith the partie himself without reuelation or miracle cannot be sure he hath them The which if it be true I desire him to answer plainly how he knoweth his owne good workes proceed from faith and charitie and by what meanes he will demonstrate it to me that
Scriptures and he must no longer say we haue the true faith because it was confirmed by miracles in the Primitiue Church but he must proue the faith of the Primitiue and his present Romane Church all one that afterward he may boast of the miracles This I say touching all those miracles that are true and were done indeed in the Primitiue Church 6 The things therefore whereupon with most probabilitie they can stand and wherein indeed they put most confidence are the miracles of their Legend Saints Anthony Benet Francis Dominicke and such like which thicke threefold they vse to alledge against vs. But we except two things against them First that supposing much thereof were true yet the Romane faith is not necessarily proued thereby to be the truth for heretickes yea pagans may do wonderfull things to confirme their error D. Stapleton f Promptuat moral part aestin pag. 627. saith that for the more triall of the godly not onely Antichrist himselfe and his forerunners but all heretickes also may do true miracles by the permission of God as the sorcerers of Pharaoh did The which is proued to be true by all stories diuine and humane That which Pharaohs sorcerers and Simon Magus did is well knowne g Baro. An. 68. n. 22. The stories adde touching Simon that he made images to walke and would lye in the fire without hurt and flie in the aire and make bread of stones He could open dores fast shut and vnloose bands of iron and had many shadowes following him as it had bene men c. h Tacit. l. 4. The Emperour Vespasian at Alexandria restored a blind man to his sight i Holy â—h in vit Philoâ—oph Empedocles the Philosopher raised vp a dead woman to life k 〈◊〉 ostâ— l. 4. The like did Apollonius Tyaneus of whom l Lib 4 5. Philostratus and m Compend pag. 202. Cedrenus report great things that he could deliuer cities from scorpions serpents and earthquakes and that being dead many miracles were wrought at his graue And Cedrenus addeth that the same time there was one Manetho which in these workes went beyond him and by his verie words could do what he listed These things I grant as the same author affirmeth were done by the efficacie of Satan God permitting him for the triall of mens faith and punishing of their sinnes yet do they well proue that the false Church may haue as strange miracles in it as the Church of Rome hath and therefore such things are but a weake argument to proue the truth by vnlesse the euidence of the Scripture go before 7 Secondly we think the Legends that report these miracles to be lies the meere deuises of mens idle wits the which is proued by this that I cannot remember one writer of that sort whom the Papists themselues do not challenge for a lier And though at the first my speech may seeme hard yet let the reasons be looked into whereupon I say it and it will proue it selfe againe to be the truth Claudius Espencaeus n 2. Tim. 4. digr 21. saith No stable is so full of dung as the legends are full of fables yea very fictions are contained in their portesses o Loc. l. 11 c 6. Canus hath a whole discourse of this matter among other things he writeth as followeth The Pagan Historiographers write more truly then Christians haue done the liues of Saints and Suetonius with farre lesse corruption set forth the liues of the Emperours then Catholicks haue done the facts of Martyrs Virgins and Confessors they either follow their affections so or of set purpose deuise so many fictions that it not onely shameth me but irketh me to see them It is certaine also that all their narration is deuised either for gain or error and it is a iust complaint of Ludouicus Viues touching certaine histories deuised in the Church who wisely grauely reproueth such who thought it a great part of pietie to coine lies for religion and following ouermuch their affection to write things not as the truth but as their fancie told them they present vs now and then with such Saints as the Saints themselues if they might would not be The Church of God therefore is greatly hurt by these men who thinke they cannot sufficiently set forth the liues of Saints vnlesse they decke them vp with fained miracles and reuelations Wherein their impudencie hath spared neither the blessed Virgine nor our Lord himselfe To this day I could neuer yet see one storie that I could allow neither do I sift the author of that storie which is called the Golden legend for in him you may read monsters of miracles rather then true miracles he that writ this was a man of a brasen face and a leaden heart Let it be noted well what this man saith of all the Saint-stories without exception and then see vpon what goodly grounds the reuelations of Francis and the rest are builded that they should be such an infallible testimonie for the Church of Rome And let any Papist shew if he be able that their miracles are written in any better authoritie then this that Canus chargeth with lying falshood Would our aduersaries haue vs such fooles as to beleeue what themselues beleeue not For I make this offer to the Iesuit freely that if he can proue his Saint-miracle by such an author as the learned of his owne side giueth credit to in all things and refuseth in nothing the said miracle shall be admitted and all the consequences thereof but if himselfe thinke his author faultie in some things I may by the same libertie refuse him in others 8 And I adde further that there is nothing more common with our aduersaries then at home among themselues to reiect these verie miracles which abroad in the Faire of fooles they set out to sale so buisily p Opusc de concept virg c. 1. Caietan saith It cannot be knowen infallibly that the miracles whereupon the Church groundeth the canonization of Saints be true by reason the credit thereof dependeth on the report of men who may deceiue others and be deceiued themselues And I haue shewed before that a vision of Bernard and another of Briget being obiected in the question of the virgin Maries conception q Part. 1. tit 8. c. 2. Antoninus the Archbishop of Florence answereth they are fantastike visions and mens dreames And marke what Canus r Loc. l. 11. c. 6. saith of Gregories Dialogues and Bedes Historie reputed to be of the best sorts of stories that they haue The same saith he may I say of Gregorie and Bede truly and rightly they misse it now and then c. who writ miracles talked of and beleeued among the vulgar which the censours of this age will thinke to be vntrue For my owne part I could better allow those stories if the authors with seuerity of iudgement had ioyned more care in choise This censure
the power of ordaining belongeth not to iurisdiction but to order as they call it The which point will serue to auoid all that the Iesuite hath said in this section though we should say no more 3 The Texts of Scripture obiected are easily answered To that of Heb. 5. I say it requireth no more but that the partie be called of God which Luther was as we know by his labour and the fruite of it though Luther had also a lawfull outward calling as I haue shewed Sect. 52. num 5. For the Apostle speaketh of Christ who yet had none of the peculiar consecration mentioned by the Iesuite but onely a calling from God otherwise testified All the other places receiue the same answer For they mention nothing but a lawfull entrance into the ministerie containing no one sillable that bindeth to such an externall kind of succession as our aduersaries call for Whereupon I conclude that Luther and Caluin and all our ordinarie Pastours came in by the doore and satisfied the whole ordinance of God touching a lawfull calling For inwardly God enabled them and opened their eyes to see the Romane corruptions and outwardly they were created Pastors and teachers of Diuinity in the Churches where they liued and where they preached the magistrate authorized the people allowed them which is sufficient vnlesse the doctrine they taught could be disproued And if anie other outward ceremonie or custome were wanting which is vsed in the Church of Rome or hath bene vsed in the purer Church in former ages we care not for that but are readie to maintaine that all circumstances considered no such custome or ceremonie is simply and by the law of God or absolutely necessarie Digression 55. Shewing how vncertaine and contrary the Papists are among themselues touching the power of Priesthood in remitting sinnes and concerning the first institution of Shrift where it began 4 The Iesuite alledging the words of Christ mentioned Ioh. 20.22 to shew the necessitie of coming in by a lawfull calling by the way glozeth two things vpon them that deserue to be noted First that thereby the power to absolue from sins was giuen the Apostles so consequently to all Priests Which I will shew to be but a new opinion and of no certaintie that the reader may see the Church of Rome is not at one with her selfe touching the principallest points of her faith and no man can be certaine of anie thing that the Iesuite saith for these be his words To the Apostles was giuen power to absolue from sinnes But Fra. Victoria d Relect 1. de potest eccles sect 3. saith There be many Catholike authors which to the power of Orders do not simply attribute the remission of sins or collation of grace or any effect truly spirituall at all For they say mortall sinnes can neuer be forgiuen but by contrition and that by the power of the keyes sinnes are neuer forgiuen or the first grace conferred Wherein he hath truly reported of many great and ancient Schoolemen For so thought e Lib. 4. d. 18. the Maister of Sentences And Maior f 4 d. 14. q. 2. concl 3. saith The sacrament of Penance doth no way blot out sinne adding that the Doctors hold this commonly g Mich. AygnaÌ„ Bonon in Ps 31 Bononiensis demaunding whether a Priest can remit sinne by the power of the keyes answereth that the keyes are taken three wayes First for the principall authoritie simply and so they belong to God onely Next for authoritie not simply principall but precellent and so they belong to Iesus Christ onely Thirdly for authoritie neither principall nor precellent but ministeriall onely and thus the Pope and his successors haue the keyes as Christ said to Peter I will giue thee the keyes By this ministeriall power he meanes the same that Peter Lombard whoÌ„ he alledgeth followeth doth h Mag. lib. 4. d. 18. Ouand 4. d. 18. pro. 26. who is now reiected for holding that the key worketh not any absolution from the sinne but onely declareth the partie to be absolued But i Altisiod part 4. tract 6. cap. 8. q. 2. Alexand. part 4. q. 80. m. 1 ad 3. Occh. 4. q 8. lit q. Gabr. 4. d. 14. q. 2. lit d. n. most ancient Schoolemen follow him Occham saith I answer according to the Maister that Priests bind and loose because they declare men to be bound and loosed 5 The which exposition being the truth as it ouerthroweth the present conceit holden touching the Priests absolution that it is a iudiciall act effecting grace and iustifying a sinner whether contrite or not contrite that is not materiall to the Priests authoritie so it ineuitably destroyeth the Sacrament of Penance For this supposed power to remit and retaine sinne is the foundation of that Sacrament For therefore it is beleeued to be a Sacrament because the Scripture mentioneth the remitting of sinnes by the power of the keyes which power being no more but onely to declare them to be remitted by true contrition without conferring anie grace to the partie the Sacrament is destroyed for want of conferring grace properly and so there is no argument in the Scripture that Penance is a Sacrament 6 Againe the Iesuite saith that the Apostles had power to absolue from sin and the people a commandement to confesse their sinnes giuen in those words of Iohn thereby affirming his supposed Sacrament to be instituted by Christ and in those verie words wherein he falleth againe into the former difficulties and worse For in the 40. Section he said the Protestants denying Penance and Satisfaction to be needfull go against that of Iohn Baptist Do workes worthy of penance and that of our Sauiour Mat. 4. Do penance Which cannot be so if Penance were not ordained before Christs resurrection for howsoeuer he will thinke the deniall of Penance is against the Scripture yet if it were not ordained till Christ was risen he is debarred from saying we do against the words of Iohn Baptist Christ Mat. 4. because those words command no Penance or if they do then it was not instituted in Iohn 20. after Christs resurrection Let the Iesuite choose which he will 7 The truth is our aduersaries and the Church whereof they are though they make much ado with this sacrament because it is the net that taketh all their prouision yet can they not tell either when or where it was instituted or who commanded it You heare what the Iesuite saith that Christ did it in the 20. Chapter of S. Iohn which is I grant the currant opinion among the Iesuites since the Councell of Trent but in former times it was not so afore these men the Paracelsians of the text tooke it in hand Now k Ouand 4. d. 16 pro. 15. faith a late Frier out of the Tridentine Councell prouing the necessity of confession by discoâ—rse out of the authoritie of Iohn 20 we haue this to be the germane sence of that
thence haue giuen testimony to vs who remain behinde that they are safely arriued there you I say are vnwise that will leaue this way to aduenture the liues not of your bodies but of your soules in a path found out by your selues neuer tracked before In which whosoeuer haue gone yet God knoweth what is become of them since we neuer had letter or miracle or euident token or any word from them to assure vs that they passed safely that way I may account you most vnwise men that will aduenture such a pretious iewell as your soule is to be transported by such an vncertaine and most dangerous way I must needs think that since there is but one way and that the way of the Catholike Church is a sure and approued way you are very vnwise that leaue it The Answer 1 They are vnwise that leaue the way of the Catholicke Church they are no wiser but the very same that follow the way of the Romane Church the reason is because the Roman is not the Catholick Church And therfore we that haue left it and the waies thereof that we might trauell towards the heauenly Ierusalem reioyce in the goodnesse of God that hath called vs to this mercy and daily craue of his heauenly maiestie that he will continue vs therein to our liues end though Papists cal vs to follow them Whose miracles as a Digress 44. I haue shewed giue no testimony that any man in the Popish religion euer came to heauen The miracles of Christ and of his Apostles and of the Primitiue Church belong not to them but vs in that our faith is the same that theirs was that did them The rest contained in the Legends and Indian Newes which are all that Papists can properly challenge are the delusions of Satan and forgeries of men And so the diuell and the Frier playing the Carriers loded their packe-horse with such stuffe and because the Pope paied them well for the deuice they made silly Papists such as the Iesuite is beleeue they came from their friends in heauen This therefore is no sure way to finde the truth vnlesse it be certain that these miracles were sent indeed and then as certaine that they which sent them died in the present Popish religion 2 As for our selues we are not so destitute of letters and tokens as the Iesuite pretendeth sent vs not from men that are departed but from God that gaue them entertainment whose certificate to vs is b 2. Pet. 1 1◠more worth then all the miracles of the world because he sent it vs by his owne Sonne that best could tell who arriued in his fathers house And these letters are the Scriptures God our King c Hom. 39. saith Macarius hath sent the diuine Scriptures as it were letters vnto vs. And Saint Austin saith d Enarr Psal 90. conc 2. These are the letters which are come to vs frō that Citie whither like Pilgrims we are trauelling So that as long as by these Scriptures we can iustifie our faith we haue letters from heauen sufficient to assure vs that all which embrace and obey the faith we professe are safely arriued in the kingdome of heauen This is the reason why the Pope forbiddeth his people the reading of them lest thereby they should know so much and knowing it should forsake him and his lying miracles § 63. I must thinke that since the Catholicke Church is as I haue proued the light of the world and rule of faith the pillar and ground of the truth that you leauing it leaue the light and therefore walke in darkenesse forsaking the true faith and therefore are misled in the mist of incredulity into the wildernesse of misbeliefe Finally hauing lost the sure ground of truth fall into the ditch of many absurdities must needs be drowned in the pit of innumerable errors And erring thus from the way the veritie the life which is Christ residing according to his promise in the Catholicke Church must needs vnlesse you will returne to the secure way of the same Catholicke Church incurre your owne perdition death and endlesse damnation of body and soule from the which sweet Iesus deliuer vs all to the honour and perpetuall praise of his name Amen Laus Deo beatae virgini Mariae The Answer 1 The Church of Rome is not the Catholike Church but the seate of Antichrist and therfore what danger soeuer there be in forsaking the Catholicke yet there is none in refusing the Romane Church Nay t 2. Cor. 6.17 Apoc. 18.4 all such as will be saued must forsake it And they that will abide therein shall find by experience at the last that all the inconueniences which the Iesuite saith belong to such as leaue the Catholicke Church will fall vpon them And therefore blessed be God the Father of lights who hath restored among vs the publicke ministery of the Gospel for the calling of his people out of the damned errors of the Romane Sea into his owne Church And let the earth reioyce and euery child of God therein and giue him thankes who hath made the light of his Church to breake out when the tyranny of the Church of Rome had thought to haue smothered it in eternall darkenesse and with the innumerable errors that it bred to haue seduced misled and drowned it for euer wherby mankinde should haue incurred perdition death and endlesse damnation of body and soule And let my deare countrimen know among whom vnto whom I write these things and for whose sake I will expose my selfe to the vndiscreet fury of seducers and many seduced refusing no paines or dutie that may tend to the enlightning of their conscience and confirming of the vndoubted faith of Iesus Christ wherof I am called to be the meanest preacher that liueth among them LET THEM I SAY AND ALL THE PEOPLE OF OVR LAND WHOM THESE HAPPY DAIES HAVE RECLAIMED FROM THE CHVRCH OF ROME COVNT THIS THEIR CHIEFEST HAPPINES AND WE ARE IT AS THEIR CROWNE that God hath thus made them partakers of his Gospell when the other side euen vnder their eyes lie plunged in ignorance of mind error of faith and vilenesse of conuersation so horrible and prodigious that it needeth teares to bewaile it rather then a pen to report it In recompence wherof let them be CONSTANT AND FAITHFVLL to the end and continue in the things that they haue learned making no question but our faith which could bring so visible a reformation of manners into our countrey so certaine knowledge so vnspeakeable comfort into our minde which could bring the light of Gods owne word the maiesty of elder times the reuerent countenance of the first antiquitie and the perpetuall testimony of our aduersaries themselues for her iustification wil saue their soules if they will obey it For want of which obedience they may and shall perish eternally when the faith it selfe is in no fault And let them LABOVR WITH LOVE AND
it is from the world but we meane three other things First although it abide alwayes vpon the earth holding the whole faith without change and containing a certain number that constantly professe it yet this number may be very small and their profession so secret among themselues that the world and such as loue not the truth shall not see them they remaining so hidden as if they were not at all This point concerning the smalnes of the number is confessed by i Alexan. part 3. qu. vlt. nu 5. art 2. Dur. ration l. 6. c. 72. nu 25. Panorm de elect electi potest c. significasti Tur recrem de CoÌ„secr d. 2. semel Christus nu 4. theÌ„ that hold that about the time of Christs passion the true faith remained in none but onely the virgin Mary and by k Refert Fr. Suarez tom 2. difâ— 54. sect 6. pag. 649. such Catholicke writers as say that in the times of Antichrist the true faith shall perish throughout the whole world And the secretnesse of their profession is acknowledged by Pererius the Iesuite who l In Daniel pag. 714. writeth that in the time of Antichrist there shall be no sacrament in publick places neither shall any publicke honour be giuen it but priuately and priuily shall it be kept and honored And Ouandus the Frier m Breuiloqu in 4. Sent d. 18. prop. 3. p. 602. who thinketh the Masse at that time shal be celebrated but in very few places so that it shall seeme to be ceassed Secondly all the externall gouernement thereof may come to decay in that the locall and personall succession of the Pastors may be interrupted the discipline hindered the preachers scattered and all the outward exercise of gouernment and religion suspended whereby it shall come to passe that in all the world you cannot see any one particular Church publickly professing the true faith whereto you may safely ioyne your selfe by reason persecution and heresies shall haue ouerflowed all Churches as n Gen. 7.18 Noes floud did the world or obscured their light as the Sun is eclipsed or corrupted the sinceritie of religion as a leprosie or scab sometime groweth ouer the whole body of man and hideth euery member till by little and little it fall off againe Thus in effect say the Papists Acosta o De Temp. Nouiss l. 2. c. 15. saith All the light and reputation of Ecclesiasticall order lieth worne out and buried in the time of Antichrist the Priests lamenting the Church doores destroyed the altars forsaken the Church empty because there are none to come to the Lambes solemnitie And p Vpon 2. The. 2 3. the Rhemists It is verie like be it spoken vnder the correction of Gods Church and all learned Catholickes that this great defection or reuolt shall not be onely from the Romane Empire but specially from the Roman Church and withall from most points of Christian religion For that neare to the time of Antichrist and the consummation of the world there is like to be a great reuolt of kingdomes people and Prouinces froÌ„ the externall open obedience and communion thereof For the few dayes of Antichrists reigne the externall state of the Romane Church and publicke intercourse of the faithful with the same may ceasse q Aquipontan contra Sâ—hn de Antich pag. 23. Tho. Boz de Sign Eccl tom 3 l. 24 cap. 9.10 Others thinke that then the sacrifice of the Eucharist shall be taken away And r Dom. à Soto 4. d. 46. qu 1. art 1. some affirme The departure and reuolt of the whole world froÌ„ the sea of Rome shall be a signe of the end of the world the faith being extinguished by reason of this reuolt Thirdly Å¿ Apo. 13. 17. that which the world and the kingdomes thereof followeth as the Church may fall out to be the synagogue of Antichrist whose doctrine is poyson whose Pastours be Wolues in sheepes clothing and whose people be the bastards of the whore of Babylon that none can discerne the true beleeuers but such as are specially enlightened by Gods Spirit therunto Thus writeth Gregorie of Valence When we say the Church is alway coÌ„spicuous t Annal. fid l 6. c. 4 coÌ„ment Theol. tom 3. pag. 145. saith he this must not be taken as if we thought it might at euery season be discerned alike easily For we know that sometimes it is so tossed with the waues of errors schismes and persecutions that to such as are vnskilfull do not discreetly enough weigh the circumstances of times and things it shall be very hard to be knowne Which then specially fell out what time the falshood of the Arrians bare rule almost ouer all the world therefore we denie not but that it will be harder to discerne the Church at some times then at other some yet this we auouch that it alway might be discerned by such as could wisely esteeme things To the same effect u Relect. controâ— 1. q 3 pag. 30. writeth D. Stapleton 4 Whereby it appeareth that if our aduersaries would set contention aside the matter of the visible and inuisible Church were at an end for themselues thinke it may be driuen into the same straits that we complaine of as will appeare by examining the places alledged And no doubt they could haue bene contented to haue called it the inuisible Church too as we do buâ— that as in all other matters so in this it was their lucke to come after vs and we by euill hap vsed the terme before them and so matred x See Rhem. vpon 1. Tim. 6.20 2. Tim. 1.13 the Catholicke phrase that now it cannot relish in their mouthes But in the meane time let the Iesuite speake indifferently what fault we haue made that our Church must be condemned for no Church because it was sometime obscured and yet his be the Romane Catholicke Church though it be subiect to the very same inconueniences For though he say their Church is neuer thus obscured but in the times of Antichrist yet this granteth as much as we say that it may be hidden and then we reply that all those dayes of the Churches inuisibilitie were the dayes of Antichrist § 18. The second part to wit that Christs Church must as long as it is be alwayes visible I proue First because Christ our Sauiour ordained this his Church to be the light of the world according to these words Matth. 5. Vos est is lux mundi and to be a rule or meane by which all men at all times may come to an entire and infallible knowledge of the true faith as hath bene alreadie proued but how can it be the light of the world if it selfe be inuisible or how can it be a meane by which at all times the infallible truth in all points of faith should be made knowne to all sorts of men if it selfe at anie time could not be knowne of men Or if you
whereby all men at all times may come to the true faith must be alway visible to all sorts of men But Christ appointed the Church to be the rule whereby all men at all times may come to the true faith Ergo the Church must be alway visible to all sorts of men This argument is faultie two wayes first in the assumption for the Church is not this rule as l Digr 3. § 14 per totum I haue shewed at large neither hath the Iesuite alreadie proued it but onely said it as here he beggeth it to proue that which before he brought to proue this 5 But yet it is a subordinate meanes for the bringing men to saluation in that God teacheth his elect by the ministerie thereof m Ad ipsam salutem ac aeternam vitam nemo peruenit nisi qui habet caput Christū habere autem caput Christū nemo poterit nisi qui in eius corpore fuerit quod est ecclesia Aug. de vnit eccl c. 16. neither can any man be made the child of God except first he be conceiued in the wombe of the Church But hence it followeth not that the Church is therefore visible or knowne to all sorts of men because visiblenesse and inuisiblenesse are but differences of the Catholicke Churches outward state here vpon earth and the elect may partake her ministery in either of these estates that is to say he may be effectually ioyned to the Catholicke Church though it do not visibly appeare in outward shew by the ditection of Gods word and spirit and by the teaching of a few faithful Christians that lie hid in the world as wheate doth in his chaffe and so consequently Gods elect neuer want necessary meanes of knowledge saluation because some part of the Church or other first or last though hidden from the world is manifested to them 6 As for the reprobate I grant that many times the Church is neither knowne to them nor yeeldeth them any meanes whereby the faith may be knowne And I adde further that this is Gods very ordinance whereby he vseth to punish their obstinacie For as sometime n Esa 6.9 Ioh. 12.40 he taketh away their heart and sometime o 2. Thess 2.11 giueth them ouer to strong delusions to beleeue lies so sometime he sends p Amos 8.12 a famine of the word of God that they shall wander from sea to sea and from the North to the East they shall runne to and fro to seeke the word of the Lord and shall not find it and sometime q Apoca. 2.5 compared with 1.20 taketh away the candlesticke which is the visible Church as I haue touched r § 3. nu 2. before All which notwithstanding it is true that God would haue all men saued and come to the knowledge of the true faith This I say is true not vniuersally in euery sence but as the Apostle meant it whose sence is declared by ſ Enchir. c. 103. cont Iulian. l. 4. c 8. de praedest sanct c. 8. de corrept grat c. 14 Austine thus No man is saued but whom he will saue not that there is no man whom he would not haue saued but that none is saued but whom he willeth and therefore is to be intreated that he would because what he willeth of necessitie must be done And by t De incarnat grat c. 31. Fulgentius thus By all these men whom God would haue come to saluation is meant not altogether all mankind but the vniuersitie of all that shal be saued who therefore are called All men because them all the goodnesse of God saueth out of the number of All and that out of euery nation condition age language and prouince The same exposition is also giuen by u Aug. vbi supra Haymo Anselm in 1. Tim. 2 Mag. 1. d. 46. others and commended by x Alliac c. 1. q. 14. art 1. ad 1. pag. 206. Durand 1. d. 46. qu. 1. ad 2. p. 134. Greg. de Valent. tom 1. p. 325. tom 2 p. 894 Biel. lect 68. lit f. pa. 189. Vocabul theol verbo voluntas Dei anteced Greg. Arimin 1. d. 40. art 2. ad 4. learned Papists But Thomas preferreth it before all others and y Lect. 1. in 2. c. 1. ep ad Timot. saith it agreeth best with the Apostles intent And Emmanuel Sa is of the same mind God saith z Notat in 1. Tim. 2 4 he would all men be saued he would All men that is All kind of men not euery man for if he would absolutely then he would do it Which being so the Iesuite may see there is no such necessitie that God should prouide the meanes of a visible Church to instruct all men vniuersally forasmuch as he neuer willed absolutely that all men vniuersally should be saued but as Saint Austine a Ep. 107. ad Vital post mediū speaketh It is euen by children manifest that many be not saued not because themselues but because God will not confuting the contrary as Pelagianisme And it is no absurditie to say of such that they wanted b Mat. 10.5 Act. 14.16 16.6 17.30 through Gods iudgement many times secret but alway iust c Rom. 1.16 1. Cor. 1.21 Rom. 10.14 Act. 2.47 necessarie meanes whereby they should attaine to faith and saluation God willing the meanes no otherwise then he doth the end that is by no absolute will formally abiding in himselfe but onely conditionally Whereas his will concerning the elect being his absolute purpose to giue them eternall life is alway ioyned with such works as make it not onely possible or conditionall but also certaine to be effected And if nothing else can teach the Iesuite thus much yet he might haue learned it of his owne words For if God will nothing which he knoweth impossible then doth he not will the saluation of such as he knoweth to be d Rom. 9.22 1. Pet. 2.8 Iude vers 4. the vessels of wrath prepared to destruction And if the Iesuite thinke yet to answer and vnfold the matter by applying e Magist 1. d. 46 47. ibi Scolast communiter omnes Damascen l. 2. orthod fid c. 29. the schoole distinction of will antecedent and consequent then let him open his eyes and consider that this Antecedent will taking it as f Voluntas Dei antecedens est qua dat alicui naturalia vel aliqua bona antecedentia quibus potest aliquid consequi Ockā Camerac 1. q. 14. art 1. and so the rest it is described g Quod vult Deus voluntate antecedente solùm non simpliciter vult Dur. 1.46.1.2 neither is any will simply properly and formally as the Apostle saith God willeth in the place alledged neither doth it necessarily include the certaine publishing of the Gospell or reuelation of the Church But h Interna vocatio Gentibus nunquā defuit nam iuxta opinionem Scoti
5 when he said I would not beleeue the Gospell vnlesse the authoritie of the Church did moue me For though the testimonie of the Church by reason of mens infirmitie afore they beleeue be requisite to draw them on to consent to the Scriptures as children afore they can go hold themselues by the side of a stoole and so learne to go yet is not the credite of the Church or authority of men the thing whereby we know and distinguish the Scripture from other writings but the authoritie of Gods spirit is it that by the help of the Church worketh faith in vs. Digression 19. Touching the place of S. August cont epist. fundam cap. 5. and the matter which the Papists gather from it 4 The Papists haue a principle among them that the Scriptures receiue all their authoritie from the Church meaning thereby g Rhem. Gal. 6.2 that they are not knowne to be true neither are Christians bound to receiue them without the attestation of the Church h Ioan. de Turrecr suê‘ dist 9. Noli meis nu 4. Which testimonie declareth vnto vs which be the Scriptures and which not i Baron annal tom 1. an 53. nu 11. so that by the tradition of the Church all the Gospel receiueth his authority and is built therupon as vpon a foundatioÌ„ and cannot subsist without it Yea k Bosius de sign eccl tom 2 pag. 439. some of them write that the Scripture is not to be reckoned among such * Principia principles as before all things are to be credited but it is proued confirmed by the church * Quasi per quoddam principium as by a certain principle which hath autority to reiect allow Scripture And l D. Standish Treat of the Script c. 6. probat 3. a countriman of ours hath left written that in three points the authoritie of the Church is aboue the authoritie of the Scripture The second is for that the Church receiued the Gospel of Luke and Marke and did reiect the Gospels made by his high Apostles Thomas and Bartlemew The which speeches of theirs when the Papists haue expounded how they can yet this will be the vpshot that in all discourses concerning religion the last resolution of our faith shall be into the Churches authoritie 5 For confirmation whereof they bring you see this of Austine I would not haue beleeued the Gospel vnlesse the Churches authority moued me In which words he speaketh of the time past afore he was conuerted and according to the phrase of his countrey putteth the preterimperfect tense for the preterpluperfect tense meaning thus I had not now beleeued the Gospell and bene a Christian but that the Church by her reasons perswaded me thereunto speaking onely of the practise of Christians who by their perswasions conuert many to the Gospell And that he speaketh of the time pâ—st when he was an vnbeleeuer it is plain not onely by viewing the place but by the testimonie of a learned Papist m Can loc l. 2. c. 8. pag. 34. who saith Austine had to do with a Manichee who would haue a certaine Gospell of his owne without controuersie admitted therefore Austine asketh what they will do if they chance to meet with one * Qui ne Euangelio quidem credat which beleeueth not the Gospell and by what arguments they will draw him into their opinion n Certè se affirmat non aliter potuisse adduci vt Euangeliâ—m amplectâ—retâ—â— quà m Ecclesiae authoritate victum Verily he affirmeth that â—e for his part could not otherwise be drawne to embrace the Gospel but being ouercome with the authorie of the Church therefore he doth not teach that the credite of the Gospell is founded on the Churches authoritie Whereby it is plaine that Austine propoundeth himselfe as an instance of one that beleeueth not which he could not be when he wrote this but by speaking of the time past And though it were throughly proued that he spake of himselfe being a Christian and in that estate said he would not beleeue the Gospell vnlesse the authoritie of the Church moued him yet were it not proued hereby that he meant the present Church as it runneth from time to time or the Church of Rome or any other place as it now standeth For if some Papists misse it not he meant the Church which was in the Apostles times which saw Christs miracles and heard his preaching Durand o 3. d. 24. q. 1. in litera o. saith That which is spoken concerning the approbation of the Scripture by the Church is meant onely of that Church which was in the Apostles time Of the same mind are p Dried de var. dogm l. 4. c. 4. Gers de vita anima Occham dial l. 1. part 1. c 4. others whereby he may see that Austine giueth a kind of authoritie to the Church but it is not that Church which should serue his turne Neither is the authoritie giuen large enough to reach the Popish conceit or the Iesuites conclusion if we had not the testimony of the Church we could not be infallibly sure that there were any Gospell at all nor know these bookes to be Scripture for Canus a Doctor of his owne q Vbi supra confesseth I do not beleeue that the Euangelist saith true because the Church telleth me he saith true but because God hath reuealed it And r Triplicat incho 〈◊〉 uers Whitak in Admon Stapleton The inward testimonie of the spirit is so effectuall for the beleeuing of any point of faith that by it alone any matter may be beleeued though the Church hold her peace or be neuer heard And Å¿ Comment theol tom 3. pag. 31 Gregorie of Valence The reuelation of the Scripture is beleeued not vpon the credit of any other reuelation but for it selfe And t qâ—â— Sent. 1 q. 1. art 3. pag 50. liâ—eta C. â—â—ce Greg. Arimin prolog n sent q. 1. art 3. pag. 4. Cardinall Cameracensis The verities contained in the Canon of the Bible onely are the principles and foundation of Diuinitie and receiue not their authority by other things whereby they may be demonstrated And therefore this testimonie of Austine proueth not that he beleeued the Gospel through the Churches authoritie as by a Theologicall principle whereby the Gospel might be proued true but onely as it were by a cause mouing him to credite it as if he should say I would not beleeue the Gospell vnlesse the holinesse of the Church or Christs miracles did moue me In which saying though some cause of his beleeuing the Gosp ll be assigned yet u Compare this wâ—â— the place of Bozius alledged in the beginning of this Digress letter a. no former principle is touched whose credite might be the cause why the Gospell should be beleeued These speeches of our very aduersaries which the truth it selfe hath wroong from them deserue to be obserued the more because
whether it be true or no. But to examine the Churches faith he saith is absurd and thus he proueth it They which examine the particulars taught by the Church whether they be the truth or not with authority to accept or reiect make themselues examiners and iudges ouer the Church and preferre their owne liking and censure before the iudgement definition and censure of the Church But this later is absurd considering the Catholicke Church is a company of men wise learned and free from error Mat. 28.20 Iohn 14.16 16.13 Ergo the former is also For answer to this argument we do not hold that we haue authoritie to accept that which we like or which in our conceit seemeth right and to reiect whatsoeuer we dislike or which in our priuate iudgement seemeth not conformable neither do we admit any priuate conceit of any man as the Iesuite vntruly suggesteth but all authoritie thus expounded we disclaime and renounce And here I affirme against his odious suggestion that not we but himselfe and his Pope are guiltie of this presumption of whom they write a Sacr. Cerem lib. 1. tit 7. that all power is giuen him in heauen and earth b Innocent 3. de Concess praebendae c. proposuit And of the fulnesse of this power he may by right dispence beyond all right c Gloss ibid. §. supra ius Euen against the Apostles and their Canons and the old Testament and in vowes and othes d Sum. Angel voce Papa nu 1 And against all the commandements of the old Testament and the new For otherwise it might seeme that God had not bene a prouident father in his familie neither could it be said that the Pope is Gods generall Commissary assumed vnto him into the fulnesse of power Finally e De translatione Episc c. quanto in gl He is said to haue a heauenly iudgement that can make somthing of nothing and that to be the sence which is no sence because in such things as he will his will is insteed of a law Whence it cometh to passe that f Cusan ep 2. pag. 833. the Scripture is fitted to the time and the sence thereof altered as the time altereth g Id. ep 7. pag. 857. so that sometime it is expounded one way and sometime another h Alu. Pelag. de planct Eccles l. 1. art 6. ex Hostieni Neither may any Councell iudge the Pope for that if in any matter the whole world should iudge against him yet his opinion were to be receiued They that attribute all this and a great deale more to their Pope whom alone they make iudge of all in my minde may very ill vpbraid others with assuming authoritie to iudge c. 2 But this we say that it is lawfull and necessary for euery particular man i 1. Thess 5.21 to trie all things and hold that which is good and by the Scriptures to examine and iudge of the things which the Church teacheth him k Luc. 1.4 Col. 2.2 that he may haue the full knowledge and assurance of the things wherein he is taught The which triall because it is made by the Scriptures is no priuate iudgement but the publicke censure of Gods spirit that speaketh openly in the Scripture to all men And when a man in this manner reiecteth the teaching of a Church as great and good as the Romane Catholicke his conceit herein is not priuate as priuate is opposed to spirituall but onely as it is opposed against that which is common among others and so a priuate man may iudge For our Sauiour saith l Ioh. 7.17 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 If any man will do the will of God he shall know of the doctrine whether it be of God or whether I speake of my selfe m Act. 17.11 And the men of Beroea when they receiued the word of Paul and Silas searched the Scriptures daily whether those things were so And yet the teaching of the Apostles was more certaine and infallible then the doctrine of any Church since and their persons more holy and wise then any that haue liued after them 3 Therefore the true manner how the Churches teaching may be examined being thus expounded the proposition of the Iesuites argument is false wherein he saith They which examine whether the particular points which the Church teacheth be true make themselues iudges ouer the Church preferring their priuate conceits before the definitions of the Church c. For they examine and iudge not by their owne priuate humors but by the publicke word of God n Ioh. 12 48. which in the Scripture speaketh openly to all the world though the children of God onely know and beleeue it by reason o Ioh. 12 40. the vnbeleeuers haue their eyes and hearts blinded that they should not vnderstand And thus it is lawfull for all men to iudge the Churches teaching because else they cannot be certaine they liue in the true Church or haue true faith p Col. 2.2 which is ioyned with the full assurance of vnderstanding to know the mystery of God Chrysostome answering the obiection of such as pretended they could not tell what religion to be of there were so many opinions q In Act. hom 33. saith That seeing we take the Scriptures which are so true and plaine it will be an easie matter for you to iudge and tell me hast thou any wit or iudgement for it is not a mans part barely to receiue whatsoeuer he heareth Say not I am a scholler and may be no iudge I can condemne no opinion for this is but a shift c. Basil saith r Ethic. definit 72. pag. 432. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 It behoueth the hearers that are learned in the Scriptures to trie those things which are said by their teachers and receiuing that which agreeth with the Scriptures to reiect the contrary And Gerson one of his owne side Å¿ De exam doctr part 1. conâ—ess 5. writeth The examination and triall of doctrines concerning faith belongeth not onely to the Councell and Pope but also to eueryone that is sufficiently learned in the Scriptures because euery man is a sufficient iudge of that he knoweth 4 And in all this hitherto there is no wrong offered to the Church but onely that put in practise which was neuer misliked till a Church arose whose siluer being drosse and milke poyson might not endure the triall And whereas he saith it is a great absurditie to preferre a priuate mans iudgement be he neuer so witty or strongly conceited of himselfe before the iudgement of Gods Church herein he saith excellent well but will he expound the light and euidence of the Scripture to be nothing else but wit and conceit and will he leaue no roome for the full assurance of vnderstanding in the heart of man or is it absurd for a priuate man to preferre the truth of Gods word before the teaching of all the world I would not