that the naked and simple truth is to be inquired after with an vnpartiall affection And then the Lord which gives a single heart to seek after it will give a wise hart to find it out Math. 7. 7. Onely let men take heed they be not as Pilate asking vvhat is truth and turning their backs vpon it when they have done nor having found it as Orpah did to Naomi forsaking her weeping And for my self as I could much rather have desired to have built vp my self and that poore stock over which the holy Ghost hath set me in holy peace as becoÌ„meth the house of God wherein no sound of axe or hammer or other toole of iron is to be heard then thus to enter the lists of contention so being iustly called to contend for the defence of that truth vpon which this man amongst others layes violent hands I will endeavour in all good conscience as before God so to free the same as I wil be nothing-lesse then contentious in contention but wil count it a victorie to be overcome in odious provocations and reproches both by him and others And so desiring as earnestly the Christian reader into whose hands this my defence shal come to manifest vnto me such errours in the same if by the word of God they may so be found as to receive from me such truthes as are therin coÌ„tâ—yned I leave the due trial to that alone touchstone coÌ„mit the blessing to the Lord who alone giveth wisdom is able to make wise to salvatioÌ„ CERTAYN OBSERVATIONS vpon the Epistle dedicatory Preface to the Reader FIrst I desire it may be observed by the reader how Mr Bernâ—â—ileth the worshipful personages vnder the wing of whose protection he shrowdeth his papers Christian Professors A title peculiar to some few in the land which favour the forward preachers frequent their sermons advance the cause of reformatioÌ„ Such persons are coÌ„monly called amongst themselves professors vertuous and religious thereby distinguished fro the body of the land which make no such profession and are therefore accounted and iustly prophane and without religion and that as roundly by Mr. B. as by any other in the Land But it seemeth he had forgot both his Epistle whom both he in it and others every where call Professors for distinction sake when he wrote his book for in it he makes all the kingdome professors at a venture and Christian professours I hope he meaneth Thus those whom he severeth in the Epistle he confounds in the book And let him wel consider how he can quit himself eyther from flatterie in the one or from vntruth in the other And where Mr Ber. in the body of the Epistle you seat your self in the middest between the schismatical Brownist as you charitably term him the AntichristiaÌ„ Papist the one snatching on the right haÌ„d and the other on the left it is something which you say and more belike then you are aware of Fitly may you be seated in the middest betwixt both being indeed a minglement compound of both and wel may both snatch at you and yet neither do you wrong if neyther require more then their owne Iustly may the Papists challenge from you that stinted service book devised Ministerie Antichristian Hierarchie and Babylonish confusion which you have stollen away from them as Rahel did her Fathers idols though she covered them never so close And iustly also may we chalenge from you such godly people as you fraudulently deteyn and such truthes of doctrine as you teach as being the peculiars of the true Church as the holy vessels were of the temple though violently with the people caried to Babylon and there kept But if you will still hault betwixt both as Israell did betwixt God and Baal and carry in your right hand many Evangelicall truthes with vs in your left many Antichristian devises with the Papists no marvell though both partyes remayne vnsatisfyed neyther must you be offended though the Papists for the truthes you hold with vs account you hereticks nor though we for the devises you reteyn with them call you Antichristian And so you see your midle standing betwixt them and vs more wayes then one And thus much of the Epistle dedicatory In the next place I come to the preface where amongst other iust complaynts of the iniquityes of the tymes you reckon and that worthily as the most daungerous Atheisticall security carnall living vnder a generall profession to which purpose you alledg 2 Tim. 3. 1. 2. 3. 4. 5. and so instance in your English people This place of Timothy alone had you well weyed and throughly improved especially the fifth verse where separation from such persons as having a shew of godlines do deny the power thereof as you confesse the English people do is expresly commaunded it would eyther have stopped your mouth from reproching vs as you do for separation or els have opened the mouth of the most simple reader to reproue your vanity as God did the mouth of the asse to reprove Balaam The next thing I observe is how vauntingly you bring as chalengers into the lists Mr. Gyshop Mr Bradshaw D. Allison and other vn-named Ministers all which you say are vnanswered by vs. And no marveil for sundry of their writings never came to our hands and besides it were a more equall and compendious way for these men to take vp the defence of their Churches cause where their fellowes have forsaken it and left it desolate then thus to make new chalenges though in truth with the same weapons it may be new frubbished over wherewith the other have lost the field Yet are theyr books and by the grace of God assisting shal be answered in particular as they come to our hands and are thought worthy answering though in truth it were no hard thing for our adversaries to oppresse us with the multitude of books considering both how few and how feeble we are in comparison besides other outward difficultyes if the truth we hold which is stronger then all did not support it selfe The difference you lay down in the next place touching the proper subject of the power of Christ is true in it selfe being rightly vnderstood and onely yours wherein it is corruptly related and specially in the particular concerning vs as that where the Papists plant the ruling power of Christ in the Pope the ProtestaÌ„ts in the Byshops the Puritants as you terme the reformed Churches those of theyr mynde in the Presbytery we whome you name Brownists put it in the body of the CoÌ„gregatioÌ„ the multitude called the Church odiously insinuating against us that we do exclude the Elders in the case of goverment where on the contrary we professe the Byshops or Elders to be the onely ordinary governours in the Church as in all other actions of the Churches communion so also in the censures Onely we may not acknowledge them for Lords
to all Gods curses but the Lord takes occasion by the sinns of the parents to execute his iustice vpon the children in whose punishments he also punisheth the parents themselves after a sort The next thing I observe in this argument is that you affirm the children of the Apostate Israelites to be the children of God by circumcision and infants now to be Christs by baptism which you say also constitutes the Church against which Popish and anabaptistical errour I do iustly except Popish I call it for that the papists imagine that by baptism their children are made Christian soules and in signe of that they have the font ever standing at the Church dore so do the Anabaptists make baptism the form of the Church which you call the constitution as indeed the form of a thing constituteth it and giveth being vnto it Wherof if I my self were perswaded I could not defend the baptism received eyther in Rome or England but I must withall iustify both the one the other for the true Church of Christ. But against this vnsound opinion both theirs and yours I will lay down certayn arguments playnly proving the contrary And first it is the covenant of God which makes the Church as you your selfe both affirm prove pag. 277. of your 2 book of which covenant you also graunt in this place baptism to be the visible seal as was also circumcision in those tymes and therefore it is not the covenant it selfe but is after it in the order both of nature and tyme. Secondly the Lord had his Church before eyther circumcision or baptism were appoynted which is also one and the same in essence from the beginning to the end of the world which it couldnot be if eyther circumcision or baptism were parts constitutive or essentiall of it Thirdly the Lord made his covenant and so admitted them into the Church wâ—â—h Abraham and his seed to be his and their God in their ages and generations so that he children of Abraham and of the Iewes were not without the Lord covenant and him to be their God til the tyme of their circumcision which was the eighth day but were born yea begot in the covenant and an holy seed and therfore the manchilde not circumcised the eight day is sayd to have broken the Lords covenant wherof circumcision was asigne To this also add that the Lord did admit into 〈◊〉 with himself accepting them to be his people all and every one of 〈◊〉 Israelites in the wildernes where notwithstanding all of them in comparison were vncircumcised Ios. 5. 2. 3. 4. 5. Fourthly if baptism were the constitution of the Church as Mr B. speaks then were all heretiques and schismatiques baptised with water into the name of the Father Son and H. Ghost true christians and their assemblyes true Churches of Christ so had the â— Sâ—â—ceâ—â—tes been a true Church by circumcision and so of the Isâ—â—â—elites or Agarians which have retayned circumcision to this day the same may be sayd of the Eâ—â—â—ites and Edomites which were notwithstanding as far from being true Churches as Mr B. is from the truth of God in writing aâ— he doth A fourth consideration is to be had of an affirmation by you peremptorily and absolutely made as though it were without all contradiction or limitation in the third argument and that is that the baptism in the Romish Church is true baptism Touching which I do commend vnto the godly reader this distinction Baptism is to be considred of vs in a twofold respect first nakedly and â—â— the essential causes the matter water and the form the washing with water into the name of the Father and of the Son and of the H. Ghost and in this respect I confesse true baptism both in England and Rome Secondly it is to be considered of vs 〈…〉 as they speak clothed with such appurtenances as wherewith the Lord hath appoynted it to be administred as for example a lawfull person by whom a right subiect vpon which a true communion wherein it is to be ministred dispensed in which regards neyther I can approve it nor Mr B. manifest it to be true eyther in Rome or England When the house of the Lord at Ierusalem was destroyed by the Câ—aldees and the vessels therof together with the people caryed into Babylon they remayned still both in nature and right the vessels of the Lords house though in respect of their vse or rather abuse they became Belshazzars quaâ—fing bowles So is it in the destruction of the spirituall house of the Lord the Church by the spirituall Babylonians and in the vsurpation and abuse of the holy vessels and in special of this holy vessel of baptism Yet is there in this poynt a further consideration to be had of vs vnto which both the scriptures and our own experience do lead vs namely that as the Lord hath his people in Babylon his I mean both in respect of election and of personal sanctification so hath he for their sakes there preserved notwithstanding all the apostacy and confusion which is found in it sundry his holy truthes and ordinances amongst which baptism is one But as this his people being commingled with the Babylonians in one visible communion cannot be called the true visible Church of God so neyther can these ordinances in the administration of them be called the true visible ordinances of Christ and of his Church but as the Lords people are commaunded to goe out of her and to separate themselves and so to build the Lords house a new in Ierusalem or rather themselves into a new spiritual house for him to dwel in so are they to bring with them out of Babylon these ordinances and in particular this ordinance of baptism and to enioy the same being sanctifyed in the right vse and order All which was livelily shadowed out in the materiall temple and ordinances as appeareth Ezra 1. 7. 8. 9. 10. 11. and 5. 13. 14. 15. And this also may serv for answer to that you bring in your second reason for the iustification of Rome in respect of the truthes of doctrine and ordinances there In your fourth argument there is litle but the answer of which I formerly spake vnto the second to wit that antichristianism begun in Christianity which is true as sowernes begins in wine til by degrees it turn it into vineger and as other haeresies begun in the Eastern Churches which have notwithstanding long since eaten out the hearts of them that they cannot nor could not of long tyme be called the true Churches of Christ. True also is it which you say that antichristianism doth not wholy disanul christianity for if it did it were not possible it should deceive so effectually as it doth How should the Divil be beleeved in so many lyes if he should not in some things speak the truth But where you further adde that Poperie is nothing
mongst you or any good effect which God hath wrought by them but this I deny that either they are or have been so effectual as to make any one of your parish assemblies the Church of Christ truely gathered constituted And for the place of Ieremy 23. 22. which as here to prove a true church so every where to prove a true ministery by the effectuall work therof is so frequētly alledged I desire it may be wel cōsidered it will appear that the Prophet speaks not at all of the effect of prophecying but of the drift intēt of the Prophets which had they taken counsel of the Lord would not have flattered the people in theyr sinns by preaching peace peace as they did thereby hardening theyr hearts and strengthening theyr hands in their disobedience and rebellion but would on the contrary by denouncing against them the iudgements of God have endeavoured their repentance as the true Prophets did And if we must thus iudge of true and false prophets by the effects of their ministery certayn it is that neyther Ezechiel no Ieremy himself stood in Gods counsel but were false Prophets for neyther of them were effectuall for the peoples conversion Ier. 20 7. 8. Ezech 3 7. 11. And yet a wonder it is to hear what a noyse Mr B. and his people do make with this scripture of Ieremy as though it did without contradiction iustify both Church and Ministery by some ministeriall effect where it is most playne to all that but read the Chapter with any observatiō that the Prophet speaks not a word of the effect of their Ministerie but of the drift of the ministers the false Prophets desperately slattring the people to their destruction 3 By Gods most straunge and miraculous deliverance of vs from the enemyes of his gospell a promise of God to his people Lev. 26. 7. 8. Deut. 28. 7 These deliverances do no more iustify your estate before the Lord then the deliverance of Samaria out of the hands of the Aramites did the ten tribes in their Apostasie The Lord doth promise victory and deliverance vnto his people in their iust quarrels and vse of good meanes but ever with condition of his glory and their good And they thus walking and being thus delivered take experience of the truth of his promises and have cause of reioycing in the God of their salvation but besides this there are many other causes of deliverance and victory which with all other things of the same kinde †come alike to all men good bad and thus to measure the Lords love by morsels bewrayes too carnal a mind in any man and Mr B. neighbour minister if he have a fatter benefice then he may aswel avouch him self a better minister for the quoted scriptures do as well promise plenty and aboundance as deliverance and victory And where in the last place you lay to our charge that though wee like it well that you should call vs brethren yet wee will not so acknowledge you nor do we hold our selves bound so to admonish you I do answer that as we finde at your hands Mr B. little brotherly dealing traducing vs in all places as Brownists Schismatiques Anabaptists persons obstinate in sin so neyther indeed can we acknowledge any of you for brethren in that visible cōmunion of Saincts which is the Church notwithstanding the loving and respective remembrance wherein we haue very many amongst you severally considered for your personall graces Our reasons are these 1. We cannot admonish any of you according to the rule order of Christ Math. 18. to which duety towards every brother in communion we are absolutely bound 2. We can not acknowledge you for our brethen but we must also acknowledge your Prelates for our reverend fathers vnder whose blessings we mean not to come 3. We cannot acknowledge some of you brethren but we must acknowledg all amōgst you for such for there is but one brotherhood of all amongst you as your owne rhyme teacheth and makest vs all one brotherhood Now by the scriptures we have not learnt to enter any such fraternity where we must acknowledge brother Preist brother half Priest brother dumb Preist brother Atheist brother Epicure brother drunkerd brother blasphemer brother witch brother conjurer lastly brother recusant Papist if not living yet dead for so you must bury him as your deare brother committing his soul to God and his body to the earth And for these causes among others we cannot acknowledge you as we desire in that speciall fellowship of the gospel communion of saynts But disclayme you the fatherhood of the Prelates the brotherhood of the vnhallowed multitude and fest your selves in the family and househould of God and we will acknowledge you in word and deed We will not with that vngodly brother grudge your cōming into our fathers house but will help with our owne hands to kill the fat calf wil make all spirituall melody with you in the Lord. The fifth errour reputed is That onely Saincts that is a people forsaking all knowne sinne of which they may be convinced doing all the knowne will of God encreasing and abiding ever therein are the onely matter of the visible Church This Position which you account errour rightly vnderstood and according to his exposition from whom you received it is an vndoubted truth For of such onely externally and so farre as men can iudge the true Church is gathered whether out of Paganism Iudaism Antichristianism or any other Idolatrous or adulterous estate whatsoever and of them alone framed as of the subject matter which is onely true whilest it continueth such false when it degenerates from this disposition and so as rotten putrified stuffe to be cast out of the Church We will then come to your allegations to the contrary And first you say this is a proper description of the invisible members of Iesus Christ secluding even hypocrites from being true matter of the visible Church All the true and lawfull members of the visible Church are to me members of the invisible Church to me Isay which am bound to iudge them to be in truth as outwardly they appear so I am taught by the Apostle himself who accounts the whole visible Ch and every member of it elect redeemed iustifyed sanctifyed which are conditons competent to the invisible Church And for hypocrites as they may perform all the conditions here required visible or to vs as Mr Smyth hath answered so do we take knowledge of none such in the Chur in the particular til they be knowne in their day by the outbreakings of sinne and being so discovered they are no longer to be reteyned in the Church but to beare their sinne except they repent and then who can repute them hypocrites You object secondly that this makes that David Iehoshaphat and the Church of God in their dayes were no true matter of a Church
contention as they and a thowsand worse evils could not but fall out in a Church gathered as yours is of all the prophane rable in a kingdome so when they do arise in a true Church there is power to voyd them out and the persons with them in whom they reigne But if the vnlawfulnes of a Church government might be proved by the pryde contention the like evils arising in it then surely M B. you that know so well how these and other mischeifs reign in your own should lay your hand on your mouth for shame and be affrayd to provoke any man to medle in that mattâ—â— Besides it is apparent both in the scriptures and ecclesiasticall writers that not onely pride and contention but herely and almost all other evils haue sprung from the officers governours in the Church And surely nothing hath more in former dayes advanced nor doth at this day more vphold the throne of Antichrist then the peoples discharging themselves of the care of publique affaires in the Church on the one side and the Preists and Prelates aâ—rogating all to themselves on the other side Lastly the word Church you say must be expounded figuratively to avoid the absurdâ—tâ—s which eâ—s would necessarily follow out of the text viz that the whole Church must speak ioyntly which were confusion contrary to 1 Cor. 14. 40. that women must medle in Church affaires which the Apostle forbids ver 34. that children must speak which were impossible so then it must needs â—e taken figuratively the part for the whole and if one part must be left out why not an other till the cheif of the Congregation be taken who are chosen by the rest as their mouth Touching the exception of confusion I desire the reader to remember what hath been formerly answered adding further that Mr B. herein doth not oppose vs but the Apostles and Apostolicall Churches governed by them yea the H. Ghost it self propounding their examples for our imitation The Apostle Peter Act. 1. 15. c. standing vp in the middest of the disciples which were about an hundred and twenty spake to them about the choise of one to succeed Iudas and it is sayd ver 23. that they that is these brethren to whom he spake presented two as also that the whole multitude Act. 6. 5. presented the seaven for Deacons to the twelve Apostles who are sayd v. 2. to haue called the multitude and to have spoken vnto them v. 6. to have prayed and layd hands on the elect Deacons Now might not any prophane spirit take vp M. B. words and insult over the holy Ghost himself and say what did all the disciples that were in the place an hundred and twenty present Ioseph and Mathias They must needs speak in presenting these two and spake they ioyntly or all at once this were confusion contrary to 1 Cor. 14. 14. did the women speak they must not medle in Church matters â— 34. did children speak it is impossible So for Act. 6. did all the twelve Apostles speak at once v. 2. and pray at once v. 6. did the whole multitude speak ioyntly when they presented the 7. Deaconâ— v. 6. here were the like confusion and besides here were women and children in the Church also Now let the indifferent reader judge what M. B. hath sayd more against vs then any Lucian or scoffing Atheist might obiect against the spirit of God himself and his holy pen-man the Evangelist Yea further by these and the like consequences women and children are vtterly excluded from the Church as no parts of it Luke sayth Act. 15. 22. that the whole Church sent messengers to Antiochia and Paul 1 Cor. 14. 23. speakes of the whole Churches comming together in one to exercise themselves in prayer prophesying and the like parts of Church communion but children neyther could send messengers nor pray nor prophesie nor the like and women might not speak in the Church and therefore both they must be left out of the Church and if one part why not an other so till we come to the cheif of the congregation that they alone may be the Church and all in all as it is iust with God that he which opposeth the truth should oppose himself also so doth Mr B. in this very place intaÌ„gle himself in the same absurdities wherin he would ensnare vs. First he affirms the Church Math. 1â— must be the principall of the congregation Then Mr B. is not your congregation the true Church of Christ for the principall of your Church namely your self hath no power to excommunicate And say not for shame the Archdeacon or officiall are principalls or lesse principalls of your congregation Again which is the cheif thing I desire may be observed you say these principalls must be chosen by the rest of the Church be their mouth and stand for the whole And how chosen must the whole Church speak joyntly when they chuse them that were confusion must women speak that is contrary to the scriptures Yet are they members of the congregation and so are young youthes childreÌ„ and servants I adde further the Church you say is two or three principall members Well then they two or three must speak to the party how can he els heare but for two or three to speak together is confusion and contrary to the coÌ„maundement 1 Cor. 14. 31. for all must speak by one one And by this time I hope you are ashamed of such tristing as here you vse I do therefore answer in few words it is not necessary that every one of the people should speak to the offender no nor of the officers neyther If but one officer do sufficiently evince and reprove the party what needs more speak The rest both Officers people may manifest their consent eyther by voice signe or silâ—nce yet so as liberty be preserved for any in place and order to speak eyther by way of addition limitation or dissent And for women they are debarred by their sâ—x as from ordinary prophecying so from any other dealing wherin they take authority over the man 1 Cor 14. 34. 35. 1 Tim. 2. 11. 12. yet not simply from speaking they may make profession of faith or confession of sin say Amen to the Churches prayers sing Psalmes vocally accuse a brother of sin witnes an accusation or defend themselves being accused yea in a case extraordinary namely where no man will I see not but a woman may reprove the Church rather then suffer it to go on in apparent wickednes and communicate with it therein Now for children and such as are not of yeares of discretion God and nature dispenseth with them as for not communicating in the Lords supper now so vnder the law for not offering sacrifices from which none of yeares were exempted neyther is there respect of persons with God in the common duties of Christianity And for that so oft reinforced objection of authority given to
Barnabas coÌ„ming among them is not said to have ioyned theÌ„ vnto the Lord but to have exhorted them which were ioyned to coÌ„tinue with the Lord. vers 23. and to have perswaded others to ioyn themselues unto the Lord also vers 24. but that this course ordinary set by Christ should be held in the replanting of Churches after the vniversall apostasie of Antichrist is a thing impossible There were then no Ministers but popish Priests and are they the Lords meanes Mr Bernard Shall the man of sin be consumed by himself or by the breath of the Lords mouth Are false Ministers the Lords ordinary means of planting Churches Or are popish massepreists or the popish Bishops from whom they have their authority and so the Pope himself from whom they have theirs true Ministers And is the Church of Rome a true visible Church For it is not possible there should be a true Ministery in a false Church These are the inconveniences and discommodities Mr Bernard speaks of by which he sayth we would wring the truth from him But it is certayn they are such playne demonstrations as do evince his pretended truthes of popish and popular errours And for the gathering of a Church M. B. I do tell you that in what place soever by what means soever whether by preaching the gospell by a true Minister by a false minister by no minister or by reading conference or any other meanes of publishing it two or three faithfull people do arise separating themselves froÌ„ the world into the fellowship of the gospell and covenant of Abraham they are a Church truely gathered though never so weak a house and temple of God rightly founded vpon the doctrine of the Apostles and Prophets Christ himsef being the corner stone against which the gates of hell shall not prevayl nor your disgracefull invectives neyther Indeed * the Pharisees thought bycause they had Abraham for their father and did descend of him by ordinary succession were the formall Teachers of the Church that therefore God could not possibly cast them off or have a Church without them even so it is with the Pharisaicall formall clergy in Rome and England they think that Christ hath so tyed his power and presence vnto their ceremony of succession that without them he knowes not how to do for a Church but must needs have it passe through their fingers But as Iohn Baptist told the old Pharisees that God was able of the stones to raise vp children vnto Abraham though they all every one of them like vnfruitfull trees should be cut downe and cast into the fâ—râ— so say I vnto their children the Pharisees of our â—yme that though the Lord reject them and every one of them for their apostacy and rebellion yet can he by the seed of the word cast with what hand soever rayse vp vnto Abraham children vnto himself a Church They that are of the faith of Abraham they are the children and seed of Abraham and within the covenaunt of Abraham though but two or three and so of the same Church with him by that covenaunt Your last argument to prove the officers the Church Math. 18. and directly to disprove our supposed popularity is that it is against the dignity and office of the Ministers who represent Christs person vnto the Congregation 1 Cor. 4. 1. having authority from him to preach administer the sacraments vse the censures which none but such as represent him can give them which the body of the people do not by office nor take from them c. This indeed is the thing the dignity of Preisthood is it which goes nearest you and that you keep last as Iacob did Beniamin whom of all his sonnes he was loathest to part with Gen. 42. 4. 43. 14. But first if your meaning be that the Ministers by their office represent Christ in his office it is little lesse then blasphemy for Christ is the husband and mediatour of his Church by his office and herein not to be represented by any other man or angel The ministers in publishing the gospell and word of reconciliation are in Christs stead and therein to be obeyed as himself but what if they speak the vision of their own hart and publish heresy false doctrine or lead a scandalous and prophane life their office is no dispensation for them neyther are they now any longer in the stead of Christ but of the Divel whom they resemble as children their father and are so to be reputed Besides there is no force in your argument bycause the body of the Church represents not Christ by office as the Ministers do therefore it is no way equall with the Ministers nor may medle with them but the contrary May not a man as well argue thus Bycause the wife no way represents her housband in office for she is in no office the same may be sayd of the children aâ— the steward and the bayliffe doe therefore the wife is no way superiour vnto them she may not reprove or displace them in her husbandâ— absence what evil soever they doe in their office or persons but on the contrary they may rebuke her and turne her out of doores and her children with her if there be cause For they represent the maister in office she not Now wee know well the Church is the wife and spouse of Christ the Ministers stewards Thus having cleared the way of such obiections as wherewith Mr Bernard would stumble the reader I come in the next place as I have formerly ordered my course to declare that the Church Math. 18. 17. is not the officers but the whole body meeting together for the publique worship of God and that 1 Cor. 5. proves the same by practise which is in the former place enjoyned by rule Onely I must needs by the way make a step into his 2. book amongst his score of reasons there against popularity and so remove as it were with my foot such of them as are tumbled in by him to make rough the playn wayes of the Lord. And they are as the authour numbers them the 7. 12. 13. 17. 18. The 7. Reason is that if a sort of persons professing Christ together without officers haue the power of such officers in themselves they may do all the officers may do Wee say not that the Church hath the power of the officers but the power of Christ as is expresly affirmed 1 Cor. 5. 4. 5. and 2. it followes not that bycause the Church hath the power of Christ for all things therefore it can injoy all things without officers The power is one thing which is inseparable from the body the vse of the power an other thing which in many cases it may want Civil corporations have the Kings power and charter as well without as with officers and yet it may be there are liberties in their charter they cannot enjoy without officers they
of truth nor cause vs to forbear this most excellent and comfortable ordinance of the Lord Iesus wherein is to be seen and heard the variety and harmony of the graces of God for the aedifying of the Church v. 4. and gayning of the vnbeleevers v. 24. 25. That the Apostle in this Chapter directs the Church in the vse of extraordinary gifts is most evident neyther will I deny but that the officers are to guide and order this action of prophesying as all other publick buesinesses yea even these wherein the brethren have greatest liberty but that he also intends the establishing of so takes order and gives direction for an ordinary constant exercise in the Church even by men out of office I do manifest by these reasons First bycause the Apostle speaks of the manifestation of a gift or grace common to all persons as well brethren as ministers ordinary as extraordinary and that at all times which is love as also of such fruits and effects of that gaace as are no lesse coÌ„mon to all then the grace it self nor of lesse continuance in the Churches of Christ to wit of â—dification exhortation comfort v. 3. compared with 1 Thes. 5. 11. 14. Secondly verse 21. he permits all to prophesie and speaks as largely of prophesying as of learning and receiving comfort But now least any should object may women also prophesie the Apostle prevents that obiection and it may be reproves that disorder amongst the Corinthians ver 34. by a flat inhibition inioyning them expresly to keep silence in the Church in the presence of men to whom they ought to be subiect and to learn at home of their housbands v. 35. and not by teaching the mâ—â— to vsurp authority over them 1 Tim. 2. 11. 12. which the men in prophesying do lawfully vse Now this restreynt of women from prophecying or other speaking with authority in the Church both in this place to the Corinthians and in the other to Tim doth clear the two former obiections In that Paul forbids women he gives liberty to all men gifted accordingly opposing women to men sex to sex and not women to Officers which were frivolous And againe in restreyning women he shewes his meaning to be of ordinary not extraordinary prophesying for women immediately and extraordinarily and miraculously inspired might speak without restreynt Exo. 15. 20. Iudg. 4. 4. Luk. 2. 36. Act. 21. 17. 18. The Prophets here spoken of were not extraordinary bycause their doctrines were to be iudged by other Prophets and their spirits to be subiect vnto the spirits of others v. 29. 32. where the doctrines of the extraordinary Prophets were neyther subiect to nor to be iudged by any but they as the Apostles being immediately and infallibly inspired were the foundation vpon which the Church is built Iesus Christ himself being the cheif corner stone The Apostle vers 37. makes a Prophet and a man spirituall all one whom he further describes not by any extraordinary gift but by that common Christian grace of submission vnto the things he writes as the commaundements of the Lord. Vnto whom also ver 38. he opposeth a man wilfully ignorant teaching vs that he doth not measure a Prophet in this place eyther by the office of ministery or by any extraordinary propheticall gift but by the coÌ„mon christian gift of spirituall discerning It is the commaundement of the Lord by the Apostle that a Bishop must be apt to teach that such Elders or Bishops be called as are able to exhort with sound doctrine and to convince the gainsayers Now except men before they be in office may be permitted to manifest their gifts in doctrine and prayer which are the two mayn works requiring speciall qualification in the teaching Elders how shall the Church which is to chuse them take knowledge of their sufficiency that with faith and good conscience they may call them and submit vnto them for their guides If it be sayd that vpon such occasion triall may be taken of mens gifts I do answer first that mens gifts and abilities should be known in some measure before they be once thought on for officers and 2. that there is none other vse or tryall of those gifts but in prophesying for every thing in the Lords house is to be performed in some ordinance there is no thing throwen about the house or out of order in it and other ordinance in the Church save this of prophesying is there none wherein men out of office are to pray and teach which therefore they ought to covet v 39. and in it to be excercised and trayned vp that when officers want the Church may not need to set vp men as it were to play their prizes nor send them like school-boyes to be posed as your fashion in England is And that minister that is not called vpon the Churches experimentall knowledge of his sufficiency in these things comes not in by the dore which Christ hath opened nor may be accounted a true minister of Christ and his Church Lastly eyther men not yet in office being accordingly qualified may preach the truth of Christ or it is not possible that the people should be taught in lawfull manner eyther in nations vniversally heathenish or vniversally apostate vnder Antichrist before there be true Churches gathered by which the officers are to be chosen for as it is not very like that heathenish or antichristian preists will sincerely teach the truth neyther is it lawfull for them to administer or for any to joyn with them in their administrations by vertue of any heathenish or antichristian calling or ordination Rev. 14 9. 10. 11. 1 Tim. 5. 22. And howsoever the Church of England hath preferred a dumb masse and profane preisthood with a service-book before this ordinance yet the truth of Christ is otherwise and so the Church of Christ is taught to practise which you also Mr B might do well in modesty to acknowledge though you want liberty to vse it I haue insisted the longer vpoÌ„ this point both for it self and bycause it serveth effectually to prove the other point in hand For if the brethren have liberty in this ordinance of prophecy they haue also liberty in the other ordinance of excommunication for they are both of the same nature Look to whom Christ gave the one key of doctrine to them he gave the other key of discipline and they that may handle the one may have a finger vpoÌ„ the other they that may bynde loose by doctrine reproof comfort they may also bynde or loose by application of the same doctrine reproof or comfort to the person obstinate in sin oâ— penitent for it As the one of those doth necessarily establish the other so take away eyther and the other cannot stand And here I gather an other argument agaynst your exposition of Math 18. Lastly as the Elders principally to be imployed in teaching cannot
sorowing to them the Apostle writes them he reproves they were to be gathered together for the excommunicating purging out judging the offender v. 1. 2. 3. 4. 5. And therefore the duety here enjoyned as well concorns the brethren as the officers except we will say the fornicatour was onely among and in the middest of the officers to put from amongst them and left amongst the people still and that the officers onely were puffed vp when they should have sorrowed and not the brethren with them 2. It concerned the people as well as the Preists in the type shadow to put away leven out of their houses to keep the Passeover with unlevened bread and so in the truth and substance to purge and put out this leven Paul speaks of namely the incestuous person v. 7 8. 3. The Apostle admonisheth them that were not to be commingled with fornicators nor to eat with them v. 9. 10. 11. this duety I hope as well concerned the brethren as the officers 4. They with whom Paul deals are commaunded to put the wicked man from among themselves v 13. so that the same persons froÌ„ among whom he is to be put are to put him away which are both officers people And so I conclude that the rule praescribed by Christ Math 18. the practise of the same rule coÌ„mended by Paul 1. Cor. 5. do severally joyntly couple combine together the Elders people in th 〈…〉 ing of an offender the officers going before the brethren 〈…〉 ng in their order the women lastly by silent coÌ„sent wherin the scriptures distinguish them from the men 1 Cor 14. 14. 1 Tim 2. 12. To these things I will adde in the last place the consideration of a scripture to wit a Cor 2. 6. which M. B many others with him think of force sufficient to dash in peices all that hath been or can be spoken for the brethrens liberty right in the fore-handled busines But as I have formerly answered the objections forced from this scripture agaynst the truth I hold so will I here set down one Argument or two very pregnant except I be deceived for the confirmation of it from the same scripture the context thereof 1. They whom the Apostle by his letter made sorry for their fayling in the casting out of the incestuous man and that with a sorrow to repentaunce manifesting it self with great indignation zeale they were â—â— reprove and censure him and so did to his reformation and their own clearing which that it was not the case of the officers alone but of the brethren with them appeares in these scriptures 1 Cor. 5. 1. 2. with 2 Cor. 2. 5. 6. 7. 8. 9. 10. 11. 12. 2. Paul writes not onely to the officers but to the brethren as well as to them to forgive or loose to comfort confirm their love toward the same person vpon his repentance 2 Cor. 2 7. 8. therein plainly witnessing that the brethren as well as the officers had bound rebuked and manifested their indignation against the sin and the person for it Now this point in hand I will conclude with the observation of a practise yet continued in use in the Church of England which is that persons excommunicated for notorious sinns before they be absolved are to do their pennance as they call it in the parrish Churches wherof they are and there to ask the whole Church forgivenes Now I would know of you Mr B. whether the church have power to forgive the parties sin as men can forgive sin yea or no If you say no you discover the shame of your Church thus prophanely to take in vayn the name of God and to make a mock of Christ ordinances if you answer affirmatively then you graunt the power of Christ to forgive to loose sinns so consequently to reteyn and binde them to be in the body of the Church for which I contend The truth is there is no such power in the parish assemblies as now they stand they can neyther bind the sinner nor reâ—â—yn his sin be he to theÌ„ never so impenitent or loose him and his sin seem his repentance vnto them never so full and vnfeighned these knots are to be tyed and loosed onely by the Chauncelours or Officials singers this power have they enclosed with hedge and ditch and as things are judged at their tribunal so must the captived Church take them and will it nill it receive or refuse the party accordingly The Prelates and their substitutes have seazed the substance and kernel as it were into their hands â—aving the poore people onely the shell and shadow to feed vpon And yet this very formall shadow stil remayning in the Apostate asseÌ„blies i◠〈◊〉 to bewray how substaÌ„tiall a power the Churches of Christ were possessed of in their constitution This shell that remaynes shewes where the 〈…〉 hath been And as in this so is it in sundry other paints When the Bishop ordeynes a Minister he bids him 〈…〉 pel though he have been his porter be known vnable to read sensibly he vseth also thâ—sâ— words tâ—ke thou authority 〈…〉 though it may be he is an 〈…〉 dred milâ—â— off but never in thâ— place wherein he is to minister he gives him charge also to monster the 〈◊〉 of Christâ— as the Lord hath commanded though he be but the Bishops mans man to exequute his iudgements which formes of speach notwithstanding serue to shew what the Ministers ought to dâ—â— and where and by whose election they ought to be appointed though in truth they do or be nothing lesse And â—hâ—â— God by his providence continueth vnworn out in the degenerate assemblyes such steps and sâ—adles as may serve to shame them by shewing vnto all that will see how where things have stood by Christs appointment in his Church which do also very well consort with the disposition of Antichrist whose property is vnder a formall flourish for Christ to fight against him in his truth and ordinances Our â— reckoned errour is That the sin of one mâ—n publiquely and obstinately stood in being not reformed nor the offender cast out doth so pollute the whâ—le congregation that none may coÌ„municate with the same in any of the holy things of God though it be a Church rightly constituted till the party be excommunicated This Position thus set downe I deny with Mr Ainsworth though with him and Mr Smyth I do vndertake the confirmation of that truth which in his refutation Mr B goes about to impugne And that is that the whole communion in the Church of England is so polluted with prophane and scandalous persons as that even in this respect alone were there none other there were just cause of separation from it And to this purpose I will lay down a ground vpon which I do build whatsoever I speak in this point which I intreat the reader hâ—re and
of he is inferiour to the teaching Elders and deserves lesse honour then they For so the Apostle orders things RoÌ„ 12. 7. 8. 1 Tim. 5. 17. Now in making your Bishops Pastours Doctours you are double forgetfull of your self and double injurious vnto them and which is worse then both the rest you sin against the Lord his truth For the first in your former book you made your Bishops cheif officers in the Church and the successours of the Apostles and Evangelists and here you make them Pastours and Teachers which are the lowest orders of officers that Christ gave for the work of the ministery Ephe. 4. 11. 2. if your Bishops be Pastours and Teachers by their office what are you and the rest of your rank You and they have not the same office but you an office vnder them and so Pastours and Teachers being the lowest order that Christ hath left in his Church your order must needs be something vnder the lowest and of an others leavings then Christs 3. in making your Bishops the Pastours Teachers of the Church of England or the particular Churches in it you lay to their charge an accusation which they will never be able to answer at the day of the Lord which is their not feeding of so many thowsand sheep committed vnto them to be fedd and taught by them Lastly nothing is more vntrue and disagreable to the word of God then that your Provinciall and Diocesan Bishops are the Pastours and Teachers given by Christ to his Church There were no other ordinary officers left or appointed by the Apostles in the Churches but such as were fixed to particular congregations ordinarily called Bishops or Elders Act. 14. 23. 20. 17. 28. Phil. 1. 1. And if it can be shewed that by the word of God any other officers were left or appointed in the Church after the extraordinary officers Apostles Prophets Evangelists whose gifts and places vvere extraordinary besides such Bishops and Elders as vvere limited to particular Churches I vvill yeeld this vvhole cause in the point of the Ministery and so professe The other of Mr B. answer I mynd is about the power of Christ against sin Sathan Antichrist the want whereof Mr Ainsw and that truely objecteth against the English assemblyes Mr B. defence summarily is that there is in the Church of England the preaching of the word which is the power of Christ Rom. 1. 18. as also excommunication though not in every parrish yet in the Church of England in which is comprehended all parrishes and all superiour power over them For which let the Reader observe these particulars First a national Church since Christs death and the dissolution of the Iewish Church is amonstrous compound and savours of Iudaism Secondly if the mayn part of the power of Christ be to be administred in a particular congregation by the ordinary officers thereof namely the preaching of the gospell why not the inferiour part the censures also save that the Byshops to Lord it over all will keep this rod in their own hands Thirdly the Ministers whose judgments reasons you avouch both say and prove in the latter end of your book that this power is given to a particular congregation of faithful people Fourthly you your self lay it down as a mayn ground against popularity and withal sundry scriptures to prove it that Christ hath appoynted the same sorts of men in his Church for preaching administration of the sacraments and government Lastly it is apparant that the particular Church of Corinth gathered together in the name of the Lord Iesus had the power of the Lord Iesus for excommunication and so hath every other faythful assembly in the world as they had which since your assemblyes are not they may want this power without any great wrong the evil onely is that it resteth in a worse place then the worst parrish assembly the Bishops court or consistory I proceed Onely my desire is that the things which I have noted touching Christs kingly office be the more carefully observed by all the people of God and servants of Iesus in respect of that most direct opposition which in those latter dayes is made against it and the administration thereof For as in the first tymes after Christs comming in the flesh his prophetical office was directly impugned by Iewes and heathens so as it was †not lawful to speak in his name since that his preisthood by the masse-preisthood sacrifices in the popish Church so now in the last place doth Sathan in his instruments bend his force most directly against and with might and mayn oppose the sovereignty and crown of our Lord Iesus that he may not rule in his Church by his own officers and lawes The matter you say is not false and to shew this you note a difference between true matter false matter and no matter As you speak that which neyther any other nor yet your selfe can vnderstand of false matter so you call them no matter which make no profession of Christ at all â—â— Iewes Turkâ—s Pagans and all them true matter to wit visible which openly professe this â—â—yn truth that Iesus the sonne of Mery is the sonne of 〈…〉 Christ the Lord by whom onely and 〈…〉 they shal be saved Many greivous errours are bound vp 〈…〉 invective of Mr Bernards but for prophanenes this one surmounts them all For what can be spoken more prejudicial to the glorie of God or deragotory to the body of Christ hâ—â— that any person but pronouncing so many words how fil 〈…〉 ious soever he be in his life or what errours soever he mingle with this truth is notwithstanding true visible matter of the Church or a true member of Christs body visibly or so far as men can iudg and so must be received acknowledged Against this odious and prophane errour I wil first deal by some clear Arguments proving the contrary and then come to the allegations he makes for his vngodly purpose If all that professe this mayn truth Iesus the son of Mary c. be true matter of the Church then are most notable haeretiques true matter of the Church The Apellites Câ—rdoâ—â—ans and Marcioâ—â—â—es holding two contrary beginnings or Gods the one good the other evil the Macedonians denying the Holy Ghost to be God the Cerâ—â—â—hyans holding that Christ is not yet risen from the dead the Paternians affirming the inferiour parts of the body of man to be created of the Divill the Patricâ—â—â—â— holding so of the whole body the Novatians and Cathari denying repentance to them that sin the Nicholaitans holding community of all things the Swenk seldians and Enthusiasts denying the outward ministery wayting vpon the revelation of the spirit alone and with these many others as ill or worse then they professing notwithstanding this mayn truth as the most of them did and do Then are excommunicates true matter of the
Church though cast out for notorious wickednes for many of them hold these mayn truthes and many more yea more then Mr B. himself doth Then is the true matter of the world and lims of the Divell for such are all wicked persons whatsoever truth they professe Ioh. 8. 44. and 15. 19. Rom. 6. 16 2 Tim. 2. 26. 1 Ioh. 3. 8. 12. true matter and members of the Church They that are Christs have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts of â—â— Gal. 5. 24. therfore persons visibly wicked are not visibly Christs and so not visibly or in respect of men true matter of the Church or members of his body That which destroyes the Church makes it become eyther a false Church or no Church at all cannot make a true Church or be the true matter whereof it is made for these things are contrary But wicked men whatsoever they professe in word make the Church a Synagogue of Sathan and very Babylon which is an habitation of Divils and hold of all foul spirits Rev. 18. 2. provokes God to remove the candle-stick that is to dischurch a people and to spew them out of his mouth Rev. 2. 5. and 3. 16. Mr B. had need be a skilful workman which can make a true Ch of Christ of that matter which makes the true Churches planted by the Apostles themselves eyther false or no Churches at all They which are true visible matter of the Church or true visible christians have Christ for their King visibly or in outward appearance and so far as men can judge for by visible we mean that which may be seen of men opposed to invisible which onely God seeth for Christ is not devided but look to whom he is a Preist to save them a Prophet to teach theÌ„ to the same persons he is also a K. to reign rule over them but he is not a King to any ungodly ones neyther doth he but Satan and their lusts reign over them If profession in word with a wicked conversation make true matter of the Church then an apparantly a flat contradiction a known sinne that which makes men more abhominable makes them true matter of the Church For he that sayth he hath fellowship with God or beleeves in Christ and yet walkes in darknes doth ly and doth not truely 1 Ioh. 1. 6. He that professeth Christ to be his saviour and doth wickednes contradicts himself for Christ is not a saviour of the wicked sinns against the 4. coÌ„mandement in taking Gods name in vayn Other reasons might be brought for the â—â—iction of this soul prophane errour for truth vnanswerable for nuÌ„ber sufficieÌ„t to make a volume but these may suffice for the present some other I will intermingle as occasion shal be offered in the examination of that which Mr B. brings for the confirmation of his assertion For which end he sets down 4. Reasons The sum of the three first is thus much viz that Christ his Apostles preaching the gospell such as beleeved the same and made profession of it and of their faith were without stay or let received into the Church as true matter We are as farr from denying this order of gathering Churches as you are from enjoying it Mr B you needed not to have made three distinct proofs of this which no man denyes nor to have brought so many scriptures as you do for the confirmation of that which wee graunt with you and practise without you But herein you deceive the simple reader in that you separate and disioyn those things which then were and alwayes should be ioyned together and they are faith and repentance These two ioyntly did Christ himself preach and Iohn Baptist before him and the Apostles after him and these two were preached to and required of every one both man and woman which was admitted into the Church Mat. 3. 2. 6. Mark 1. 15. Act. 19. 4. Luke 13. 3. 5. 24. 47. Act. 2. 28. 8. 37. 19. 18. But now bycause faith repentance are inward graces resydeing in the hart and known to God alone which knoweth the hart and that the profession and confession of them are the ordinary meanes by which these hidden and invisible graces are manifested made visible vnto men there was no cause but they which made this profession to men in sincerity so far as men could judge should by men be deemed and acknowledged for true members of Christ and fit matter for the Lords house And so if by any other means men manifested themselves to have fayth and holynes wrought in them though they made neyther profession of faith nor confession of sinnes yet were they and so ought to be intitled and admitted to the liberties of the Church as appeareth Act. 10. 44. 46. 47. And vppon this very ground also it is that the children of the faithfull are of the Church and baptised though they make no profession of faith at all bycause the scriptures declare them to be within the gratious covenant of Gods mercy and love and vnder the promises of the gospel and so by vs to be reputed holy Gen. 6. â— 17. 7. 8. 9. 10. Deut. 29. 10. 11. 12. 13. Act. 2. 39. Rom. 11. 16. 1 Cor. 7. 14. so that it is not for the profession of faith ex opere operate or bycause the party professing vtters so many words that he is to be admitted into the Church but bycause the Church by this his profession and other outward appearances doth probably in the judgement of charity which is not causlesly suspitious deem him faithfull and holy in deed as in shew he pretendeth But that a man of a known lewd conversation appearing still to remain in his sinne whatsoever in word he professeth should be received into the Church out of which he ought to be cast though he were one of it or should have baptism administred vnto him which is as Mr B. rightly confirms from the scriptures the seale of the forgivenes of sinns of new birth of salvation being judged not to have the forgivenes of sinns nor to be born a new nor to be in the estate of salvation were a most desperate and prophane practise then which I know not whither the Divel hath brought any other into the Church more derogatory to Gods glory or prejudiciall to mans salvation This were to make the way of the kingdome of heaven broad enough by which al the Atheists in the world might enter into the Church and certaynly would every one of them if the Magistrate should vse his compulsive power as it is in Engl at this day yea a parrat might be taught to say over so many words yea the Divel himself though he were known so to be would not stick for his advantage to vtter them and so might be true matter for Mr Ber Church The material templi was to be built onely of
the world yet not of it but chosen out of it and hated by it men fearing God and working righteousnes and so being accepted of God in what nation soever purchased with the blood of Christ and so made his flock saynts by calling and sanctifyed in Christ Iesus and calling vpon the name of the Lord Iesus Christ in every place such were the Churches in Iudâ—a Galily and Samaria the Churches in Galatia the 7 Churches in Asia and of such people gathered into so many distinct assemblyes ech entyre in her self having peculiar Bishops or Elders set over her for her feeding by doctrine and government did those particular Churches consist they thus separated from the rest both Iewes and Gentiles in every nation whether more or lesse were that chosen generation that royall Preisthood that holy nation and purchased people of the Lord. But that ever the whole nation and all the Kings naturall subiects in it should have been within the covenant of the Lord entituled by the word of the Lord to the seals of the covenant and all the other holy things depending vpon it is a popular and popish fantasy as ever came into mans brayn requyring a new-found land of Canaan for a seat of this national Church wherein no vncircumcised person may dwel and a new old testament for the policy and government of the same And lastly it makes all one them that Christ hath chosen out of the world and the world them that fear God work righteousnes and whom he accepteth in every nation and the nation it self the beloved of God at Rome and the sanctifyed in Christ Iesus at Corinth with the City of Rome and of Corinth then which what confusion can be greater But to admit that for truth which you so take namely that Rome in the sence wherein we speak sometymes was the true Church of God as Iudah and more specially that the English nation was as the nation of the Iewes and all and every person in it high and low received into covenant with the Lord to be his people and that he might be their God yet can it not be sayd of Rome that she stil remayns the true Church of God as Iudah did in her defection but on the contrary as she brake her covenant with God advancing by degrees that man of syn the sonne of perdition and adversary Antichrist till he was exalted into the throne of Christ and that mistery of godlynes in and according to which that Church was planted at the first degenerated into the mistery of iniquity so did the Lord for her adulteryes wherein she was incorrigible when they were come to the height break the covenant on his part and gave her as an harlot a bill of divorce and put her away and her daughter Engl. with her amongst the rest Now for the more full clearing of this truth I wil in the first place answer such reasons as Mr B. brings against it and that done lay down certayn arguments to disprove his Popish plea for that Romish Synagogue Onely in the mean whyle I wish him to consider that if Mr â—m deserve so severe a censure as he layes vpon him pag. 281. of this book for some favourable affirmations touching some things â—â— persons in Rome he himselfe is much more blame worthy that both professeth and pleadeth her the true Church of Christ and in the covenant of grace and salvation then which what greater and more notable plea can be made for her Nay if it be probable that he which pleads for Rome as Mr Smith doth will in tyme become â—n love with it and sit downe a blind Papist it is necessary that he which thinks it a true Church return vnto it from which he hath wickedly schismed as all men do that separate from the true Church of Christ for any corruptions whatsoever Here I do also entreat the prudent Reader to beare it in mynd that the constitution of England cannot be iustifyed nor she proved to be rightly gathered but with the defence of Rome yea of that great and purpled whore to be the true spouse of the Lord Iesus The Reasons by which Mr B. would prove Rome a true Church are by him reckoned five in number we wil consider of them in order The first is taken from the first planting of that Church in S. Pauls tyme by vertue of which former calling and constitution sayth he Rome still remaynes the Lords people as Israel did in the wildernes notwithstanding her idolatry I do answer first that Rome as we now consider of it was never the Lords called nor under his covenant though a Church or assembly in that city or it may be more then one of saynts were and secondly that though she were yet is the covenant broken through her fornications and impenitency in them both on her part and the Lords visibly and she devorced long a goe and her daughters in and with her His secoÌ„d Reason is grounded vpon 2 Th. 2. 4. because Antichrist that is sayth he that head with his body sitteth in the temple of God which he further tels vs must be vnderstood visibly in respect of the truthes of God in doctrine and ordinances of Christ held there of which Gods people among them partake in his mercy to their salvation and others from tyme to tyme have mayntayned openly to the preservation of some fundamental poynts of the Apostolical constitution Wherevpon he also concludes that since the temple of God typing out the Church wherein he sitteth hath a true constitution Rome and that in respect of the tyme present hath a true constitution and is a true Church He might also have added and ever shal be a true Church for Antichrist ever shal sit there til Christs second coÌ„ming v. 8. Many men have written much about the notes marks of the true Church by which it is differenced and discerned from all other assemblyes and many others have sought for it as Ioseph and Mary did for Christ with heavy hearts Luk. 2. 48. that they might there rest vnder the shadow of the wings of the Almighty enioying the promises of his presence and power But what needs all this a doe Mr B poynts vs out with the finger a mark of the true Church most evident and conspicuous and like a beacon vpon an high hill and that is the exaltation of Antichrist I had thought the Churches and people of God should have been known by his dwelling among them walking there and by Christs presence in the middest of them but I now perceive Antichrists power presence and exaltation is a sure signe by which the Churches of Christ must be discerned If any therefore desire to plant his feet in the courts of the Lords house and there to abide for ever let him be sure to chuse such a Church to ioyn to as wherein Antichrist sitteth
and so espeiaâ—lly the Church of Rome because he sits surest there And it is very like this is one reason why Mr B. is so much perswaded of the Church of England as of a true Church because he thinks Antichrist sitts there in a measure and it is not impossible but this may have been some part of the cause why in former tymes he was so loath to leav that Church and to ioyn to vs when he thought we had the truth because he perceived we wanted that prerogative of Antichrists seat which England enioyes But though this shew the absurdity of the opinion yet doth it not answer the obiections I do then answer the same in effect which Mr B. makes his fourth ArgumeÌ„t namely that Popery or Antichristianism begun not out of Christianity but in the Church of God where it did also by steppes advance it selfe into the very throne of God of Christ there did in tyme and by degrees so vniversally corrupt and confound both persons and things as that God could no longer be sayd to dwel there by his visible presence and promises but Antichrist in his stead having destroyed the temple of the Lord the Church and caryed captive his people with the holy vessels into Babylon spirituall as did the civil BabyloniaÌ„s the material temple carying captive with them into Babylon civil the holy vessels and other appurtenances thereof together with a remnant of the Lords people of which more hereafter Onely I doe in the mean whyle except against two particulars in this second Argument The former is that Antichrist sitting in the temple of God viz so remayning is that head with his body 2 Th. 2. Antichrist was not in the Apostles tyme nor in a long tyme after a perfit man consisting of the head the Pope and the body the Hierarchy ecclesiastical but was in the seed onely or as an embrie in the wombe not perfectly framed much lesse visibly brought forth least of all grown to that height as to iustle with Christ for his throne yea to dispossesse him of it as now he doth and hath done a long season Secondly it is not truely affirmed that because there are some fundamental truthes of God in doctrine and truthes in ordinances of Christ as you Mr B. speak held there that therefore Rome is the true Church How should Antichrist and the Divil in him so effectually deceive with the delusion of vanity and errour if he did not countenance the same with some truthes And do you not think it possible Mr B. that any malignant and falâ—e Churches should vsurp some truthes and ordinances of Christ which apperteyn not vnto them If your argument be good the Greek Churches the Arians Anabaptists Vbiquitaries yea and all the assemblyes of haeretiques and schismatiques in the world are true Churches of Christ for they all reteyn many mayn truthes and ordinances of Christ. The third Argument is that as the children or infants of the ten tribes in IeroboaÌ„s Apostacy were called the children of God by circumcisioÌ„ the visible seale of Gods covenant so may the litle ones in the Romish Church be called Christs for that they have received true baptism And so that Rome hath a true constitution by true baptism in the children who are Christs thereby as the children of the Israelites were the Lords by circumcision til by education they be made Antichristian and by that offered vp to Antichrist as the Israelitish children became Molechs by their fathers offering them to him You do here Mr B. in the first place alter the state of the question in both the termes The question is whether the Church of Rome be the true vsible Church of Christ or no. You for the Romish Church put the lâ—tle ones in the Romish Church and in stead of their being the visible Church you tel vs they may be called Christs Whereas 1. those litle ones or infants are not the Church but the least part of it and secondly they are not necessarily eyther the true visible Church or of it because they are Christs â—â— so they were in a respect for God hath his in Babylon whicâ— are visible Citizens of that visible City of fornication though the Lords in respect of election and the beginnings of personal sanctification whom he therefore calls out of the coÌ„m 〈…〉 of it the aboâ—â—â—ations therein vnder a severe penalty Secondly whâ—â— you say 〈…〉 the children in the Romish Church have a tâ—ue 〈…〉 by 〈…〉 are Christs till by education they be made An t 〈…〉 â—â—d by it 〈◊〉 vp to Antichrist you seem to make the Church of Rome to be or to comprehend in it two distinct yea two 〈◊〉 visible Churches a Christian Church of infants before they be capable of education and an Antichristian Church of those that are of ripâ— yeares And yet further where you say that iâ— for so your words are hath a tâ—â—e constituâ—s â—â— by true baptism in their children there it seems you will have the parents to have one constitutioÌ„ that is to be one Church with their children and that true by their true baptism and to the parents which by their education are Antichristian must by the baptism of their children be made christian and yet the children by their parents when they are capable of their education be made antichristian offred vp to Antichrist The scriptures every where teach that parents by their fayth bring their children into the covenant of the Church and entitle them to the promises but that children by their circumcision or baptism should constitute their parents in the Church read â— not but in this mâ—ns scripture Yoâ— most manifest it is every where that wicked parents by their 〈…〉 lity or other sinns depriving themselves of the Lords presence and covenant have enwrapped their children â—â—th 〈…〉 and visibly secret things ever reserved vnto God So C 〈…〉 the presence of the Lord caried his posterity with him so â—iâ— Ismaell and Iâ—saâ— theirs the Ismaelites and Edoâ—â—es And â—â—th Lord disâ—laym the mother for a harlot not reputing her his wife he accounts the children no better then bastards on whom he wil have no pity And if the children of the Iewes be not broken of with their parents for their vnbelief they are successively within the covenant and of the true Church every one of them to this day Neyther doth this at all crosse that which els where you obiect out of the Prophet that the soul that sinneth shall dy that the sonne shal not bear the iniquity of the father c. For first the Prophet there speaks of such a sonne as forsakes his fathers evil practiseth the contrary Otherwise the Lord threatneth that he wil visit the sinns of the fathers vpon the children yet not so as the children are without fault for infants new-born by Adams transgression and their natural and original corruption are children of wrath and lyable
is a supernaturall thing and cannot possibly be yeelded vnto voluntarily by a naturall man or perswaded but by a supernaturall motive which is onely it self that by the operation of the spirit also in some measure it cannot be vnderstood and beleeved but by it self published and proclaymed as the sun is seen by it own light much lesse can it be willed and willingly yeelded vnto for the will must follow the vnderstanding neyther can any man will that he knowes not Besides the many treasons and great rebellions raysed to reestablish Popery in the laÌ„d the great good liking of the old law as they term it which still is found in the multitude and the apparant hatred and persequution against the true profession of the gospel in any measure though there be ten now for one in the beginning of the Queens reign that haue atteyned to some measure of knowledge and conscience of godlynes do confirm that which I say viz that the yeelding vnto the gospell in the multitude could not be voluntary The three scriptures you bring to shew that the agreement of the cheif is accounted in the case of faith and religion the act of all though the inferiours give not their consent is by you egregiously perverted for they do all every one of them plainly prove the peoples consent The first is Exod. 19. 3. 7. 8. where v 3. the Lord signifies his wil vnto Moses and v 7. Moses propounds the same things vnto the Elders and v 8. all the people viz having the same things by the Elders propounded to them as Iunius vpon that place and so will any man of common sense noteth promise obedience to all the Lords commandements The second place is Iosh. 4. 2. 8. where it is evident to him that reads the scripture quoted with it that which is written ch 3. 9. and Deut. 27. 1. 2 3. c. that the twelve men that took the twelve stones out of the miâ—des of lorden for a memoriall of the peoples safe passing over did it with the distinct knowledge and actuall consent of the multitude and of all the people as is sayd v 1. who are also expresly commanded by Ioshua v 2. of the same chapt and v 12. of the chapt before going to chuse or take these twelve men for the purpose before named Lastly for 2. Chron. 14 as â—t is true that Asa the King did provoke the rest to seek the Lord both by his example and authority so is it as true that the people sought the Lord their God with him and as vntrue that any did by his power obey in fear as you affirm The Lord himself testifies expresly against you and that all Iudah Beniamin assembled in Ierusalem and made a covenant to seek the Lord God of their fathers with all their hart and with all their sowl of whom also it is witnessed accordingly that they swore vnto the Lord with all their heart and sought him with a whol desire And for the point it self howsoever in bodily things the people may refer themselves to the determinations of their superiours and may bind themselves to rest in them as in their own acts though they neyther take knowledge of nor give consent vnto the things in particular yea though they be to their bodyly domage yet in the matters of faith and religion it is clean otherwise and to hold the same proportion is a very popish errour which makes the governours Lords over the peoples faith And thus at the last am I got back whence I digressed will now proceed in the examination of such reasons as Mr B brings to prove that profane persons or to vse his own words men of lewd conversation are not false matter of the Church To which purpose he first distinguisheth true matter into good and bad and so taking that which is bad naught vnto himself for the matter of his Church he will yet have it true and no false matter And this distinction of his he labours to exemplifie by similitude and to confirm by example The similitude he borrowes from a materiall house and the matter of it timber stone which makes eyther nothing to the matter in hand or if any thing against himself If there can possibly be any false matter of an house then rotten timber is false matter and so wicked and vnrepentant sinners dead and rotting in the grave of sinne are false matter in proportion but if there can be no false matter of a materiall house then he may see how maymed his comparison is when the termes of the one side are impossible Howsoever it is evident that the house of God the Church is a spirituall house made of lively stones built vpon that lifegiving foundation Christ Iesus And as a man or other living creature being once become dead naturally cannot be called a true man naturally so neyther can a man spiritually dead in trespasses and sinnes be called a true man spiritually and therefore not true matter of that spirituall house the Church The things you further adde namely that all Churches have in them good and bad matter that men deserving iustly to be cast out are not false matter nor so cast out of the Church but as bad matter but true that excommunicates are still brethren by their professioÌ„ are all of them so many devises of your own without proof or truth For first it is not true that all Churches which you take for such have in them good matter for there may be by your owne graunt true Churches by their profession consisting onely of wicked persons which you acknowledge bad matter though true and there are full many parish Churches in Engl wherein he that should be put to find any good matter yea one holy and sanctifyed man had need with the Cynick Phylosopher seek it oâ— him with a candle at noon day neyther is it true on the other side that all Churches haue in them bad matter there are Churches in the world wherein by the mercy of God and power of his ordinances there is no visible bad matter that is no person of known lewd conversation els God forbid You wrong the Churches of Christ and deceive the Christian reader where in the shutting vp of this point you perswade him that he shall find ever cause thus to be affected and to greive viz at lewd persons in the Church wheresoever he comes He may and ought to come where there is no such cause of greif nor by the grace of our God assisting vs shal be without reformation though you measure others by your own lyne Now for the second poynt nothing can be more vntruely affirmed then that the Church may cast out any part or parcel of her true matter For first all the true matter of the Church hath vpon it the form of the Church and so is of the essence and being of the Church which for the Church to cast out
reader may see in both his books from their gifts and aptnes to teach from their holy graces their painfull and zealous preaching their suppressing of Popery and conversion of soules with other the like effects of the truthes of the gospel published and taught by them which things since he dares not affirm of the scandalous vnpreaching Preists he cunningly passeth them by as some small moat faln into the Church by the covetousnes of Much-wormly patrons but contrary to the true meaning of the lawes and without the least default of the Bishops or Archbishops as though the covetous Patrons could present them except the vngodly Bishops had first ordeyned them If he had undertaken the justification but as true though not as good both of the vnpreaching and preaching Ministers he must have sought and produced such Arguments as would haue agreed to both but finding himself able to make no shew at all for the ignorant idle and scandalous sort having no colours to paynt no morter to dawb over those filthy stones no not to any shew he smothers all them though far the greater both in number and authority and in deed the almost onely true formall ministers according to the Church canon and constitution and presents to the reader a few dispersed disgraced tolerated and tolerating persons and vndertakes their defence manifesting himself a right naturall merchant of that great whore in shewing some handfull of tolerable wares thereby to deceive the simple buyer with the whole peice or heap of rotten stuffe which goes with them Now on the contrary if Mr B. should not haue defended men of lewd conversation as true visible matter of the Church and members of Christs body he could not haue justifyed with any colour the Nationall Provinciall Diocesan and Parish Churches or any one of them as true since they were all at the first collected and do still consist for the greatest part of such people and so disposed He therefore takes liberty vnto himself to make such defence and for so much of his Church and Ministery as will serve his turn amongst the deceived multitude and of no more But the mayn point in this place about this matter in hand to be considered of is whether ability to preach be a qualification and so preaching a work necessarily required in the ministery of Engl according to the true meaning of the lawes ecclesiasticall civil and the book of ordination This Mr B. takes for graunted affirmatively and vpon it as a mayn ground builds his whole treatise about this matter but I on the contrary do affirm that this is so is known to be to all that mind it with wisdom good conscience cleane otherwise and that neyther this ability nor practise of preaching is of necessity required to the true and naturall constitution of the English ministery in the meaning of the lawes established in that case And for the confirmation of that I affirm against this mans presumptuous asseveration these proofs suffice First the books of Homilies published and confirmed by law to be read of such ministers as cannot preach do evidently declare that ability to preach is not necessarily required of all in the true meaning of the law 2. By the statute law of the land and in particular by one statute enacted for the prevention of vnworthy ministers though wanting the book I cannot set down the title tyme or order of it he that is eyther a Bachilour of arts in one of the Universities or can give an account of his faith in latin or hath been brought vp in a Bishops house though he haue been his porter or horsekeeper or hath a gift in preaching is capable of orders and may be by the Bishop ordeyned a minister so that by the expresse letter and playn meaning of the law aptnes and ability to teach is not necessarily required in the English ministery If he haue any one of the three former qualifications the law approves of him and being ordeyned the Patron may present him to any congregation in the land whom the Bishop also must institute the Archdeacon induct and the people receive and may be therevnto compelled whither they will or no. Adde vnto these that your canons and constitutions framed by the convocation house and confirmed by the Kings royall assent so being the lawes ecclesiasticall of your Church by your doctrine Mr B. the Act of all the Church though the inferiours come not to consent do not onely approve an vnpreaching Ministery but also lay deep curses and Anathemaes vpon all that deny eyther the truth or lawfulnes of it To this also I might annex that it is a very common doctrine with your Prelates and their Chaplins and faction that preaching is no necessary annexum or appurtenance vnto Orders which they also offer to defend against all gainsayers But it seems you haue speciall reference to the book of ordination let vs therefore see what it makes for you or your purpose That you build vpon I know iâ— these words of the Bishop when he orders his Preist and delivers him the Bible in his hand Take thou authority to preach the word of God and to minister the holy sacraments in this congregation where thou shalt be so appointed The words I hear and acknowledge but the true meaning of the book I deny it to be that every Minister should be able to preach It may as wel be sayd it is the meaning of the book that that every Preist should be ordeyned in the particular congregation where he is to minister bycause of the latter words in this congregation where thou shalt be so appoynted and that he is to minister the discipline of Christ as well as the doctrine and sacraments bycause such words passe betwixt him and the Bishop in another place of the same book It is not the least delusion of Sathan or mistery that such formes of good wordes are reteyned both in the Romish English Church without any truth eyther of purpose or practise in those which vse them for by them the eyes of the simple are easily bleared by such deceivable merchants as right now I spake of though it be not without a speciall providence of God that these the like forms of words should be vsed for the more full conviction and condemnation of them that chuse to be deceived as I have formerly noted in this book To conclude this poynt The reading of the service book in form and maner the celebrating of mariage churching of women burying of the dead conformity and subscription are more essentiall to your ministery and more necessarily requyred by the lawes of your Church both civil and ecclesiasticall then preaching of the gospel is The wearing of the surplice and signing with the crosse in baptism are of absolute necessity without partial dispensation yea I may ad violation of oath by the Bishops whereas preaching of the word is no
the constitution for the ministery in it Now where you adde that Luther and other worthy Ministers of Christ were raysed vp out of the Romish Church you wrong him them and the truth in them whilst you would gratifie Rome and England Luthers Ministery from Rome was his Fryardome and is a Fryar a true minister of Christ by his office or of Artichrist whither Besides look what ministery the Church of Rome gave him it took from him and lastly if he had been a true officer or minister of the Church of Rome it had been sinne in him to have left his charge Touching the baptism received in the Romish Church I have formerly spoken and of our reteyning it but not our Ministery I shall speak hereafter That which is worthy consideration in the fourth Argument is the enterance into the ministery in the substance of which he tells vs there is nothing wanting by their lawes For touching the ability and desyre to teach and other graces he speaks of they no more make a minister then courage the feare of God true dealing and the hatred of of covetousnes make every man a Magistrate that is so indowed Now this entrance he layes down in 4. particulars 1. presentation 2. election 3. probation 4. ordination with imposition of hands But these in such confusion and with so many contradictions as do evidently shew what monsters an ill cause a vayn spirit meeting together will gender and bring forth First in his former book pag. 136. he places the whole calling or as he speakes the making of a Minister in ordination and comprehends vnder it as the 3. parts of it 1. examination 2. election 3. admission with imposition of hands In his second book he makes ordination but the fourth and last part of his calling pag. 295. as in deed it is and the same with admission The reason why he would thus advance ordination is bycause that in Engl is all in all being done by a Bishop yea though it be by the Bishop of Rome And so they call their book they make ministers by the book of ordination not the book of election or choise or calling of Ministers The Bishops Lordship swallowes vp the peoples liberty and if he but lay his hands vpon a man bid him Receive the H. Ghost he is a minister of the Church sufficiently ordered 2. Where in his former book he puts examination or probation before election in his â— he would haue election first and the probation or tryal of the partyes gifts and graces to come afterwards mis-interpreting that which is written 1 Tim. 3. 10. of probation to be made before election And the Reason of this I conceive to be bycause the Ministers in England are not onely elected but fully made before any such tryall be taken of them But I come to the particulars and first to that which he calls presentation for which he quotes Act. 1. 23 and 6. 6. In which scriptures especially in the latter of them he is much mistaken the presentation there spoken of not being before but after election The cause I suppose of this his confused wryting is the confused practise in his Church wher the Patrone presenteth his clerk both after his chusing and ordeyning But for the thing it self vnderstanding by presentation the nomination of the person to be chosen or considered of for choyce as the officers are in all other things to goe before the people so in this ordinarily provided alwayes the brethrens liberty be not infringed but that they may present or nominate others if any amongst themselves seeme more fit Now for the examination and tryall of the partyes gifts and graces as we all know what it is in the Church of England where if a man have the gift of subscription conformity canonical obedience though other gift or grace he have none he is a tryed minister and so reputed which if he want be his other gifts and graces never so eminent he is neyther to enter into nor being entred to continue in his Ministery so do the things which you write in your former book touching this tryall examination of men before they be choseÌ„ into the Ministery notably condemn both the ministery of your Church which you labour to iustify and on the contrary iustify sundry practises amongst vs which els where you condemn for notable errours The particulars are these 1. First that the gifts of him that is to be chosen must be examined according to those things which the place wherein he must be requireth and God hath commaunded 2. that the place or office of the Ministery consisteth principally in the preaching of the word administration of the sacraments and prayer 3. that the first namely the preaching of the word is to be preferred in the first place as being first imposed Math. 10. 28. 29. and most necessary both to beget and preserve a people Iam. 1. 18. Prov. â—9 15. 4. that the knowledge zeale and vtterance of of â—â—â— party to be elected must be examined Whereupon these things follow First that by your own graunt men out of office may preach administer the sacraments and prayer and so exercise their gifts and graces of knowledge zeal vtterance But as there is some difference in the respect in hand between the sacraments on the one side and the word and prayer on the other bycause there is no speciall gift required for the administration of them as there is for the latter so is the exercise of prophesying and prayer out of office so much impugned by you vndenyably iustified by this your own position And as it is a very presumptuous evill to call any man into the office of a teaching Elder whose gift in teaching hath not been sufficiently tryed out of office so is it no lesse presumption in a Church to set a man over herself for government of whose both ability faithfulnes in the reproving censuring of sinns and in other publick affaires of the Church she hath not taken good tryall 2. If this be true that the office of the Ministery consist principally in the preaching of the word and administration of the sacraments prayer how is that true for which you have so much contended in the former part of your book that the authority to censure offenders is in the cheif officers and governers of the Church as their speciall prerogative Can a lesse principall work be the peculiar priveledge of a more principall office It is against the light of nature and common reason More particularly this observation by you truely made with that also which followeth namely that the preaching of the word is to be praeferred in the first place overthrowes the order both of the Prelacy and Preisthood of your Church For if the preaching of the gospel be the principall work of the Ministery and to be preferred in the first place then are not your Provinciall and Diocesan
true holynes as the Collect for the first sunday in Lent witnesseth But admit the Ministers of Engl taught foundly in all the mayn points of religion as I acknowledge some doe in the most yet did this no way prove them true Ministers of Christ that is lawfully called to true offices in the Church In what mayn point of religion as you valew points could Corah be chalenged and yet he was no true Preist of the Lord but an vsurper of that office v. 10. 11. as on the contrary they were true Preists in respect of their office who deceived the people here and every where as the scriptures manifest So that both he which is no true minister of Christ may teach the maâ—n truthes of religion and he also that is a true Minister may erre greatly yet not presently cease to bear both the place and name of a true minister of Christ. Otherwise all Ministers are Popes that cannot err To end this Argument Mr B. in both his books vvould have probation and tryall to be made of a mans gifts and graces before he be admitted into the ministery And not onely he but Paul himself amongst above the rest requires aptnes to teach and ability to exhort with wholesome doctrine and as this gift must be in him so must it be known to be in him before he can be lawfully called into the ministery and this Mr B. affirms expresly and that by the exercise of this gift his knowledge zeal and vtterance is to be manifested Wherevpon I conclude that if tryall by sound doctrine must be made of them which are no ministers at all as indeed it must in the exercise of prophesying then cannot sound doctrine be any sufficient tryall that is proof or Argument of a true minister The sixth Argument for the justification of the ministers in Engl. is Gods ordinary and dayly assistance of them in theyr ministery for the working mens conversion vnto the Lord. God forbid I should eyther deny or make doubt of the effectuall conversion of men vnto salvation in Engl. neyther doth Mr Ainsworth say as you charge him in your 2. book that none are converted by you but he shewes first how you coÌ„tradict your selves in saying that you convert men to God and yet affirm that the same persons before their conversion were true Christians and 2. that considering the swarmes of graceles persons wherewith all your parrishes are filled you have more cause of blushing then of boasting this way But this I deny that the conversion of men vnto God is a sufficient Argument to prove a true minister of Christ that is to prove a lawfull calling into a true office of ministery according to Christs testament It is most evident that whosoever converteth a man vnto God that person doth in truth and in deed minister the word of God the spirit by the word so may be sayd to be sent of God but that every one whom God so honoreth though never so ordinarily should therefore be a true Church officer lawfully called to publique administration which is the quaestion betwixt Mr B. and me is most vntrue coÌ„trary both to many scriptures which shew that men in no office may and to much experience which shewes they do convert and save sinners And if onely officers may convert vnto the Lord to what purpose should private persons exhort instruct and reprove any vpon any occasion whatsoever But here I am driven to take vpon me the defence of them whom Mr B. pag. 299. of his 2. book challengeth for cavellers upon the same ground he chalengeth Mr Ainsworth for deceipâ—ful dealing pag. 304. of the same book Mr Ainsworth denyes that qualification with good gifts is a proof of a lawful Minister Herein sayth Mr B. he severs deceiptfully things to be conioyned for this reason with the rest in my book shewes who is a true Minister In like maner we except against his 6. Argument affirm that others besides Ministers do coÌ„vert men to God that therfore conversioÌ„ argues not a true minister This is cavelling sayth Mr B. for both these and others may convâ—rt and agayn this is but one Reason but there be mâ—re besides which are sufficient to prove our ministery And is it cavelling in vs or ignorance in you thus to speak you do acknovvledge pag. 304. that qualification with good gifts is a Reason amongst the rest to shew a true Minister and pag. 298 you make the conversioÌ„ of men a distinct argument to prove the same thing And know you not that every sound Reason or Argument must prove or argue of it self the thing for vvhich it is brought Many Reasons indeed or Arguments may be produced to prove one and the same thinge and so for further confirmation may follovv one vpon another but so as every one of them severally be of force to prove the thing in quaestion othervvise it is not vvorthy the name of a Reason or Argument but is a meer sophistication Eyther therefore Mr Bernard bring such Arguments as vvil of themselves evince that they are brought for and then reckon them vp by sevens as you do here or by tvventies if you vvill as els vvhere you doe or els cease to abuse the Reader vvith a multitude of maymed proofs as your custome is Novv bycause the conversion of men to God is much vrged by the Ministers and much stood at by many vvell minded people as indeed both in equity and good conscience men are to respect the instruments of Gods mercy tovvards them I vvill enlarge my self in this point further then othervvise I vvould And first for the tvvo scriptures quoted in both your books Rom. 10. 14. 15. 1 Cor. 9. 2. from the former of vvhich you coÌ„clude that bycause you so preach as people thereby do heare beleeve call vpon God you are therefore sent of God Let the Reader here observe that the Apostle in both these places speaks of the conversion of Heathens and Infidels to the fayth of Christ as were the Romayns and Corinthians before the preaching of the Gospel vnto them and so let him demaund of Mr B. whether the Ministers in England haue had the same effect in their preaching vnto the people there with them that preached vnto the Romayns and Corinthians and brought them by preaching from infidelity to beleeve in God If they haue then vvere the people Infidels before and vvithout faith and so are the rest not thus effectually converted by their preaching if not how then stands the comparison or proportioÌ„ between the effect of their Ministery then and theirs in England now or what Argument can be taken from these effects compared together In the generall I confesse there is a proportion and so in that generall and large sense wherein Mr B. pag. 313. expounds the word sent or Apostle I do acknowledge many Ministers in Engl sent of God
own heart but of others morally in the judgement of charity which is according to outward appearance and which may deceive The 8. 9. errours imputed to us are that we hold none of their Ministers may be heard that it is not lawful to ioyn in prayer with any of them Sundry things Mr B. brings to evince the former position of errour but not one of them so much as tending to prove it lawfull to partake in an office of Ministery eyther devised or vsurped with out lawfull calling as that in Engl hath been proved to be It is not true then which he sayth that we censure any for hearing the word we do it for partaking in other mens sinns and for receiving the mark of the beast in coÌ„municating with the Ministery of Antichrist as we assuredly know yours to be the office enteraÌ„ce into it notwithstaÌ„ding the truthes taught personal graces in the teachers and for obstinacy in the same It is true then but not pertinent which Mr B. sayth that it is a good thing to hear the word which who denyes but the Church of Engl that sileÌ„ceth the Preachers of it for her own the Popes inventions that tyes the people to their unpreaching parish-preists rather then permits them to hear a Preacher in the next parish Other things obiected by him are els where handled yet seemes it not amisse to ad something touching three scriptures by him produced and appy'ed to his purpose they are Mat. 23. 1. 2. 3. Phil. 1. 15. 18. Tit. 3. 10. 11. And first there is not one of these scriptures that gives so much as any colour of couÌ„tenaÌ„ce to the hearing of the word ministered in a false Church devised office and by vertue of an vnlawfull calling or where any of these barres are put and by all these we do beleeve affirm our selves to be kept from hearing you And this generall defence I do apply vnto the particulars and first to the first answering that the Scribes and Pharisees did neyther minister to any but the Lords people the Israell of God nor in an vnlawfull place nor by an vnlawfull enterance how corruptly soever they ministred for corrupt administrations besides the coÌ„stitutioÌ„ in the true Church we do not think the Ministers are eyther suddeynly or vnorderly to be forsaken To which I do ad further first that the words do sit in Moses chayr and whatsoever they bid you do may more strictly after the Greek be turned have sit in MOSES chayre and have bidden you observe that is what you have heard of them formerly according to Moses that do and observe But let the words be as they are and that Christ speakes of the time to come yet I see not how in them the LORD eyther commaunds or approves of his disciples hearing the Scribes Pharisees in their publique and solemn administrations but if he speak of them then he may onely permit his DISCIPLES in respect of their weaknes and being for the present too much addicted vnto them so to hear them or otherwise Christ may speak of such occasionall meetings and conferences as passed ordinarily between the Pharisees and his disciples wherin what was of Moses he willes them to receive from them without praejudice of their persons and so we do also will and exhort the people with vs to receive and reteyn whatsoever of God they hear from you or any others vpon the like occasion And considering that in the first verse Christ spake vnto the multitude and to his disciples laying no more vpon his disciples in this case then vpon the multitude and what respect the disciples had the Pharisees in and how oft and vsually they met and medled together it is very probable that Christ vpon this supposition that the disciples would or should hear or meet with them intends onely to provide that the word of God may reteyn all due authority with his in that confused estate wherein all things then stood neyther coÌ„maunding nor approving the hearing of them And considering what Christ himself testifieth of the Scribes Pharisees in that very chapter that they shut vp the kingdomâ— of heaven before men neyther going in themselves nor suffering them that would making those of their profession two-fold more the children of hel then theÌ„selves what haeresies they taught touching justificatioÌ„ by works and perfect obedience to the whole law how they made voyd the commaundements of God for their own traditions how they denyed in Christ both the person and office of the Messiah blaspheming him in his doctrine as a deceiver of the people in his life as a glutton and drinker of wyne and in his most glorious miracles as one that wrought them by the Divel considering I say these things it should be strange that Christ should eyther send his disciples to be taught by these blynde guides or approve of their hearing them him self also being the onely doctour and teacher of his Church And this I would know of you Mr. B of others which vrge this scripture as here you doe whether you would like it well or be content that the disciples should hear any such corrupt haereticall and blasphemous teachers as were the Scribes and Pharisâ—es and that denyed both the office and person of Christ as they did You your selfe teach in this very page that obstinate haeretiques are not to be heard and such were the Pharisees yea so malitiously obstinate in their haeresies as that the Lord Iesus insinuates agaynst them the very sin of blasphemy agaynst the H Ghost If then you your selves would allow your disciples to hear teachers far lesse corrupt and haereticall then were the Scribes and Pharisees to what purpose do you produce and insist vpon Christs allowance of his disciples to hear them Is this fitly to alledge the scriptures or not rather to take Gods name in them in vayn To the other scripture which is Phil â— 15. 16 answer hath been given both by others and by my self formerly and I now do ad that those there spoken of which preached Christ of envy and strise had corrupt inward affections so appearing to the Apostle by that speciall spirit of discerning which was in him though not so discovered vnto others but what makes this to such as minister in an office devised and by an enterance found out by Antichrist and so left to them which think his mark a priveledge Touching your 3. Argument which is from Tit 3. 10. 11. I do first observe your graunt that private persons and such as are not in office may reiect obstinate hareâ—iques and so by consequence that the thinges which Paul writes to Timothy and Titus touching the reformation of abuses and censuring of offendours do not concerne the officers onely much lesse the cheif officers but even the brethren also in their places 2. There is no consequence in your Argument that bycause obstinate
came out of the earth the image of the beast both small and great ritch and poore free bond received his mark in their right hand in their foreheads And is the man of sin divels idols the beast al which Antichristians worship the true God Or is that notable idol their breadeÌ„ God in the sacrameÌ„t of the altar which they so much adore the true God Yea are the Virgin Mary other saynts to whoÌ„ they pray go in pilgrimage and perform other devotions in whose honour they have built the very temples we speak of the true God Oh Mr Bern that you should be dravvn to this pleâ—sor Rome Surely the hand of God is vpon you it is a fearfull thing you feel it not And as Antichristianism doth not vvorship the true God onely but false Gods or such as are no Gods with him therefore is both against the 2. 1. coÌ„mandement as hath been sayd so neyther is Paganism as you speak without all profession of the true God To let passe that the learned of our natioÌ„ have proved the contrary agaynst the Papists pleading for themselves as you do for theÌ„ that they worshipped onely the true God that which is written 2 King 17. if there were no more scriptures doth sufficiently manifest your errour It is there sayd that the King of Ashur taking Samaria carying away Israell to Ashur brought from Babylon and other Heathenish Countryes folk and placed them in the Cities of Samaria in stead of the children of Israel And in the same place it followeth that those Babylonians and other Pagans reteyning still their Paganism and worshipping as before the Gods of their own nations did withall worship Iehovah the true God Of like truth with the former is that which followeth namely that Paganism was wholly without the Church but that Antichrist sits in the Church of God For first admit it be true of Paganism in the land of Canaan before the Israelites entred into it yet afterwards it was otherwise as the scriptures testify and got too great footing in the Church in that place as it had done before in all places 2. it is not true you say that Antichrist sits in the Church of God he sits in his own Church into which the Church of God is degenerated though there remayn vsurped sundry things still which are of God It is a great vntruth to affirm that the Popish Synagogue in the present state is the true visible Church of God vnto which he hath promised his presence given his power As Paganism hath subverted other Churches so hath Antichristianism that Church loÌ„g agone And here I would demaund of Mr Bern. what he judgeth of the Israelites in and after Ieroboams apostasie especially in the time of Ahab Iezabell when Baall was espetially worshipped and temples and altars reared vp vnto him in Samaria Doth he judge them at that tyme playn Pagans Or was their worship simple Paganism I see not but as the religion of the Papists in the opposition it hath to Christianity is rightly called Antichristianism so the religioÌ„ of the ten Tribes in the oppositioÌ„ it had to the law given by Moses may fitly be called Anti-Iudaism And for the Baalims then and there worshipped they were even as the lesser Gods at this day which are called Patrons amongst the Papists The divell to the end he might bring in agayn the old Idolatry craftily borrowing the names of the holy Apostles and martyrs by whom it was in former tymes overthrown and driven away and by this meanes it hath put on another person that it might not be known Wherevpon it followeth by proportioÌ„ that as the temples altars and high places for those Baalims other Idols were by godly kinges to be razed downe and taken away no way to be imployed to the true worship of God so are the teÌ„ples with their appurtenances built to the virgin Mary Peter Paul and the rest though true saynts yet the Papists false Gods and very Baalims to be demolished overthrown by the same lawfull authority in the mean while as execrable things to be avoyded by them which have none authority to deface or demolish them Now howsoever the difference put by M. B. is neyther true nor to the purpose if it were true yet do I graunt a difference not in respect of the things but of the tymes and that there was something legall in many of the coÌ„maundements given by Moses touching these and the like execrable things yet so as there is one the same generall and comon equity bynding the Iewes then vs now that I consider in two respects the one in the detestation of Idolatry past and the other in the preservation of it for the tyme to come And as the godly vnder the law were to shâ—w their detestation of Idolatry by defacing and abandoning the monuments reliques and remembrances of it so are they now to manifest in the same manner their just and zealous hatred of the same or like impietyes and as the kings and mighty of the earth have in former tymes given their power vnto the beast and adorned the purple-coloured whore with many ornaments and with stately temples aedifices amongst the rest so shall they in the day of her full visitation strip her naked of these amongst her other ornaments and leave her desolate Now for the 2. reason who is ignorant how many thowsands in the land are most dangerously nourished in their erroneous superstitious perswasions by the howses themselves to let passe the particular both memorials of and incitements vnto Idolatry stil appearing in some places more in some lesse knowing none other Church to which God hath promised his speciall praesence and wherein he wil be glorified save in that of lime and stone putting holynes in the very place And how well your Church provides for this appeares in sundry things as in whyting the walls of the houses where you silenced the preachers in bynding the people absolutely to the places though litle care be taken what eyther they or the ministers to whom they come do there so they deale not too faythfully in the Lords buesines in tying ChristiaÌ„ buriall absolutely to the Church or Church-yard where the Minister with all his holy implements must meet the corpes at the Church-style and so with singing saying as is appointed admit it into the holy ground And lastly in teaching the people that by keeping their Churches in good repayr they shall not onely please God and deserve his manifold blessings but also deserve the good report of all godly people And for the Papists all men know what claym they lay vnto the places as in deed they do farre better fit their pompous religion then the simplicity of the gospel what new life they continually receive from them what religion they put in them and what devotion they haue
of God and ordinances of Christ is injurious both to the growth and sincerity of the obedience of Gods people For whereas they ought to be led forward vnto perfection this teacheth them to stay in the foundation as if it were sufficient for the building of the house that the foundation were layd secondly it insinuates that it is sufficient if men so serue God as they can obteyn salvation though with disobedieÌ„ce of a great part of the revealed wil of God occasioning them thereby to serve him onely or chiefly for wages as hypocrites do As if a child should be taught so far to honour and please his father as he might get his inheritance but not much to trouble himself about giving or doing him any further honour or service Secondly I do answer that this truth which the ministers make t 〈…〉 onely fundament truth in religion is held and professed by as vile haeretiques as ever were since Christ came in the flesh May not a coÌ„pany of excoÌ„municates hold teach and defend this truth and yet are they not a true Church of God 3. I deny that the whole Church of England hath received and doth hold and professe this fundamentall truth how boldly soever these ministers affirme it They graunt there are many Atheists in the land they might say in the Church for Atheists are and ever wil be of the Kings states religion many ignorant and wicked men besides who make not so clear and holy a profession of the true fayth as they should And do these Atheists hold and professe the true fayth and every article of Gods holy truth which is fundamentall Are there not many thowsands in the nationall Church ignorant of the very first rudiments foundations of religion as the Apostle noteth them down and can they hold and professe that whereof they are ignorant Yea how can any wicked men hold that CHRIST is their saviour but they hold an apparantly in the eyes of all men for which notwithstanding these Ministers wil have them reputed true members of Christs body I ad that since the body of that Church or nation consists of mere naturall men and that naturall men are Papists in the case of justification and look to be saved by their good meaning and well doings it is most vntruly affirmed by those ministers that their Church accounts none her members but such as professe salvation by Christ onely They hold otherwise and so professe if an account of their fayth be demaunded as I have shewed by the testimony of Mr. Nichols and could do by the testimony of others if all men did not see it too evidently And yet see what these men affirme and that confidently and without fear for their advantage as that their whole Church makes profession of the true fayth that it holds and maintayns every article fundamentall of Gods holy truth and particularly that Iesus Christ the sonne of God and lastly that they that receive this truth are the people of God and in the state of salvatioÌ„ Whervpon it must follow that their whole nationall Church is in the state of salvation And surely so had it need be in the judgment of men having the promises and seales of the covenant of salvation applyed and ministered vnto it and to every member of it Lastly though the whole Church of England and every member in it did personally professe the true fayth in holines as all the true members of the Church do which are therefore called both saynts and faythfull and that we had do just exception agaynst that prophane and implicite profession for which both Mr. Ber. and the ministers plead yet could nor this make it or them a true Church The bare profession of fayth makes not a true Church except the persons so professing be vnited in the Covenant and fellowship of the gospel into particular congregations having the entyre power of Christ within themselves As hewed stones are fit for an house but not an howse nor any part of it till they be orderly layd and couched together so are men professing fayth and holines fit for the Church but not a Church nor of it before their orderly combination into a particular assembly having in it the power of Christ for the ministery government censures and other ordinances A company of excoÌ„municates put out of the Churches order may professe the same fayth they did formerly so may a sect of schismatiques putting themselves causelesly out of the Churches order so may many particular persons never ioyning themselveâ— vnto any Church at all You your selves define a Church to be a company of faythfull people c. so is not your nationall Church but many companyes not distinct and entyre in themselves and so onely one in nature as all the true Churches of God are but one by monstrous composition in a praeposterous and absurd imitation of the Iewish nationall Church and government Thus much of the Arguments in the handling of which the ministers insinuate agaynst Mr. Barrow sundry vnjust accusations which I will breifly cleare As first that he will account none members of the visible Ch but such as are truly faythful not onely in outward profession and appearance but even in the Lords ey and judgement bycause a Church is described a company of faythfull people that truly worship God and readily obey him But wherefore should the ministers thus interpret him doth he not speak of the visible or externall Church and so by consequence of visible and externall fayth and obedience which are seen of men In their Articles of religion a Church is made a company of faythful people if they must not be truely faythfull then they must be falsâ—ly faythfull And for true worship and ready obedience the Lord requires them in his word according to which we must defyne Churches and not according to casuall corruptions and aberrations brought in by mans fault 2. They charge Mr. Barrow to hold that every member of our assemblyes is led by the spirit into all truth and that it is evident he would have none to be accounted the people and Church of God who eyther know not or professe not every truth conteyned in the scriptures bycause he af firms in his Discovery that to the people of God and every one of them God hath given his holy sanctifying spirit to open vnto them and to lead theÌ„ into all truth It followes not that bycause he affirmes they have received the spirit to lead them into all truth that he therefore affirmes they are led into all truth by the spirit May not the Papists as truly avouch that Paull teacheth that the Church is without spot or wrinkle or any such thing bycause he teacheth that Christ hath given himself for it that he might make it vnto himself a glorious Ch without spot or wrinckle or any such thing It is then an il collectioÌ„
professe the gospel of and vnto which they were apparantly and notoriously ignorant and disobedient as they were They knew what they were to look for and so being for the most part of no religiō they set themselves to conform as the tymes were to that which they discerned the Queen to be of And for the Preachers and Cōmissioners which were sent before this set day for the catholik fayth of all the Queens subjects as I think it was well so was it not sufficient to make the whole land or to prepare them to be a true Church besides that the people were of the Church all this while the same nationall provinciall diocesan and parochiall Church Churches consisting of the same persons generally still continuing vnder the same government ministery in the same will-worship though in a measure reformed as before in Queen Maryes dayes Now for the Preachers you name as Mr Knoxe Lever c. which exercised their Ministery in some of the best reformed Churches during Q. Maryes reign as the good they did to some few in comparison by the truthes they taught could not make all the Queens subjects a true nationall Church so do we all know how hardly they were suffered in the begīning of the Queens reign that contrary to the publick Church-government ministery as also that neyther they nor any others could or can be admitted to any Church by any ministery received in the reformed Churches but onely by the ordination of a popish Praelate whether English or Romish it matters not by which also it is apparant to all men vpon what string the English ministery hangeth Lastly where these men say that many are dayly added to the Church by the ministery of the word preached I marvayl how this can be and from whence they are added Addition is a motion and in every motion there must be the terms or bounds from and to which it is made All they to whom they preach are of the Church already for recusant Papists come not to their Church and besides the number of them encreaseth dayly It seemes then they are added from the Church to the same Church Bycause this practise of adding men to the Church by the preaching of the gospell was in vse in the primative Churches and this phrase vsed in the scriptures therefore these ministers think they may abuse the phrase without the thing and so feed their simple readers with words of the winde Of the ministers 4 exceptiō viz of the vniting of the Queens subiects vnto those professours whose fellowship in popery they had forsaken and of the course taken for that purpose by the example of the godly Kings of Iudah I have formerly spoken of the former part even now and of the latter els where declaring 1. first that the English nation and all the people of the kingdom never was admitted into the LORDS covenant by the rules of the new testament to become a nationall CHURCH vnder nationall government as was IUDAH and all the people in it vnder the old If this can be proved I acknowledge my self in many great errours if not it is vanity and errour thus to instance in IVDAH and indeed to revive Iudaism and the old testament 2. That though England had been somtimes a true nationall Church as was Iudah yet that it did not so remayn in the deep Apostacy of Antichrist but was divorced in Rome her mother whereas Iudah on the other side into what transgression soever she sell was never divorced by the Lord but still remayned his though vnfaythfull wife the L. ever anon stirring vp some extraordinary instrument or other for her reformation the renovation of her covenant with which also the Lord so effectually wrought as the things are wonderfull which are written of all the people and such as never shal be found in any whole kingdom to the worlds end 3. That the reformation by King Edward and Queen Elizabeth though great in it self and they in it vnder GOD greatly to he honoured was nothing comparable to that which was made in Iudah by Iehosaphat Iosiah Asa Ezechiah and Nehemiah These poynts I have proved at large else where and do refer the reader thither for answer onely I will note some particular oversights of the ministers in this fourth exception as first where they say they have proved there was a true Church in the land before Queen Elizabeths reign they should have proved that the Land was a true Church for so was Iudah 2. Where they say that the noble men were sent by Iehosaphat onely to accompany assist the Levites to countenance their ministery where the scriptures affirme they were sent even to teach You will have no teaching but by Church officers therfore you so put the scripture of 3. That they say Iosiah compelled his subiects to the service of the true God taking compulsion as they do where it is evident the people did it freely though I acknowledge he made compulsive lawes 4 Speaking of the authority of magistrates over their subjects they bring in Ezechias proclamatiō as they call it sent to Israell wheras the ten tribes were not his subiects nor he their King And lastly that the Ismaelites were separated from the Church of God therein acknowledging that IVDAH was alwayes the true Church of God which I suppose they will not say of Engl alwayes or of Rome if they do it is their sin to separate from the true Church The fifth and last exception of the ministers is that Mr BARROVV Mr GREENVVOOD required that the people in the begīning of the Queens reign should by solemn oth covenant have renounced Idolatry have professed fayth obedience to the gospel after the example of Asaes reformation To which their answer is first that such a covenāting by oath is not absolutely necessary as appeares in Iehosaphats Iosiahs reformation 2. That the people was before that oath covenāt Gods true Church which their people also may be 3. That sundry congregations as in Coventry and Northampton did publiquely professe repentance for their Idolatry and promised to obey the truth established 4. They doubt not to affirm that the whole land in the first Parliament did enter a solemn covenant with the Lord for renouncing of Popery and receiving the gospell That Mr Barr. and Green should requyre that the covenant into which the Church entereth should be by oth necessarily is more then I know or then we practise But that they required that the people that is the whole nation should so have passed a solemn oth and covenant I know is most vntrue All men know they thought the ignorant prophane popish multitude vncapable of the Lords covenant and the seales of it to have requyred of them an oth for such a purpose had been to have requyred of them the taking of Gods name in vayn Where it is sayd in the 2. place
over Gods heritage as you would make them controuling all but to be controuled by none much lesse essentiall vnto the Church as though it could not be without them least of all the Church it self as you and others expound Math. 18 But we hold the Eldership as other ordinances given vnto the Church for her service and so the Elders or officers the servants and ministers of the Church the wife vnder Christ her husband aâ— the scriptures expresly affirm Of which more hereafter And where further you advise the reader to take from the Iay other birds feathers that is as you expound your self to set vs before him as we differ from all other Churches Therein you make a most inconsiderate and vnreasonable motion If a man should set the Church of England before his eyes as it differeth but from the reformed Churches it would be no very beautiful bird Yea what could it in that colour afforde but Egyptian bondage Babylonish confusion carnal pomp and a company of Iewish Heathenish and Popish ceremonies Whatsoever truth is in the world it is from God and from him we have it by what hand soever it be reached vnto vs Came the word of God unto you onely vnto it we have good right as the Israel of God unto whom he hath committed his oracles Rom. 3. 2. Towards the end of the Preface you do render two reasons vpon which you do adventure to deal against vs as you do the one coÌ„fidence in your cause the other the spirituall injury which some of late have done you in taking away part of the seale of the Ministery Touching the first as it is to vs that know you wel no new thing to see you confident in all enterprises so doth it much behoove you to consider how long and by what meanes you have been possessed of this your confident perswasion I could name the person of good credite and note to whom vpon occasion you confessed and that since you spake the same things which here you write as confidently as now you write them that you had much a doe to keep a good conscience in dealing against this cause as you did But a speach of your own vttered to my self ever to be remeÌ„bred with fear and trembling can not I forget when after the conference passing betwixt Mr H. and me you vttered these wordes Wel I wil returne home preach as I have done and I must say as Naaman did the Lord be merciful unto me in this thing and therevpon you further promised with out any provocation by me or any other that you would never deale against this cause nor with-hold any froÌ„it though the very next Lords day or next but one you taught publikliâ— against it and so broke your vâ—w the Lord graunt not you conscience And for the seale of your Ministerie deceive not yourself and others if you had not a more authentick seal in your black box to shew for your Ministery at your Bishops visitation then the converting of men to God which is the seal you meane this seale would stand you in as little stead as it doth many others which can shew as â—â—â—re this way as you and yet are put from their Ministerie notwithstanding And wil you charge your Bishops Church representative to deale so trecherously with the Lord as to put downe his Ministers and Officers which have his broad seal to shew for their Office and Ministerie What greater contumely do these vipers these schismaticall Brownists lay vpon your Church then you doe herein The Church of England acknowledgeth no such seale as this is The Bishops ordination and license conformitie vnto their ceremonies subscription to their articles devout singing and saying their service-book is that which will beare a man out though he be far enough eyther from converting or from preaching conversion vnto any And here I desire the reader to observe this one thing with me When the ministers are called in quaestion by the Bishops they alledge vnto them their former subscription conformity in some measure at least their peaceable cariage in their places but when they would iustify their ministerie against vs then their vsuall plea is they haue converted men to God herein acknowledging to let passe their vnsound dealing that we respect the work of Gods grace in any at which they know the Bishops and their substitutes if they should plead the same with them would make a mock for the most part I do most freely acknowledge the singular blessing of God vpon many truthes taught by many in the Land and do and alwayes shal so far honour those persons as the Lord hath honoured them herein But that the simple conversion of sinners yea though the most perfect that ever was wrought should argue a true office of Ministerie the scriptures no where teach neyther shall I ever beleeve without them This scripture 1 Cor. 9. 1. 2. is most frequently alledged for this purpose But as vnsoundly as commonly For if simple conversion should argue an Apostleship then should a common effect argue a proper cause an ordinarie work an extraordinarie office for the conversion of men is a work common to extraordinarie and to ordinarie officers yea to true and false officers yea to such as are in no office at all as hereafter shall appeare And what could be more weakly alledged by Paul to prove himself no ordinarie but an extraordinary officer an Apostle which was the thing he intended then that which is common to ordinary officers with him Might not the Corinthians easily have replyed Nay Paul it followes not that you are an Apostle immediately called and sent by Christ because you haue begotten vs to the Lord have been the instrument of our coÌ„versioÌ„ for ordinary Ministers Pastors Teachers called by men do beget to the Lord as wel as you The bare conversion of the Corinthians then is not the seal Paul speakes of but together with it their establishment into a true visible Church and that with such power and authority Apostolicall as wherewith Paul was furnished by the Lord. Of which more hereafter But the father of these childreÌ„ you say you are which thus vnnaturally fly from you and whereof we so injuriously have deprived you in which respect also you make this your hue cry after vs and them for through the gospel you have begotten them And have you begotten them vnto the faith as Paul did the Corinthians and are you their father as Paul was the father of the Corinthians then it must needs follow that before you preached the gospel vnto them and thereby begot them to the Lord they were in the same estate wherein the Corinthians were before Paul preached vnto them that is unbeleevers and without faith and so were to be reputed And how then true matter of the Church for which you so much contend Besides these your begotten children were baptised long before you saw their faces some twenty
vs yet since the things we suffer for are parts of the generall truth of the gospell which others before vs have witnessed we must expose and give our bodyes to the smyters and our cheeks vnto the nippers and must not hide our faces from reproches spitting rather then we deny the least part of it How much more then considering how many witnesses the Lord hath raysed vp which having finished their testimony against the Apostacy and vsurpation of the man of sinne some in one degree and some in an other have been killed by the beast some of old and others of late tymes Rev. 11. 3. 7. Lastly where mention is made of things onely seeming vnto men just holy it must be considered that it is all one to the conscience of the doer whither the thing done be so in truth or but in appearance And he that eyther doth that which seemeth vnto him vnjust and vnholy or passeth by that which seemeth just and holy sinneth agaynst his owne hart and if his owne hart condemn him God which is greater then his heart will much more condemn him If yet thou doest iudge a thing commaunded a sinne and not to be obeyed for thy help herein enquire whether that which is wrongfully or sinfully commaunded may not yet neverthelesse be without sinne obeyed as Ioab obeyed David in numbring the people This is as much as if in playne termes you should counsel a man to coÌ„sider whether he may not sinne without syn for what els is it to obey that commaundement which a man judgeth not to be obeyed A cold comforter are you to a perplexed conscience an ill counseler thus to advise men to be bould agaynst the Lord and to try whether they can blynd their consciences and harden their harts that they may sinne without feeling or feare The example of Ioab in obeying David is impertinent The case was civil and in civill affaires many thinges may lawfully be vndergone which are vnlawfully imposed For example If the King merely for his pleasure should enioyne Mr B. vpon some great penalty to come into the field souldierlike to draw a sword shoot march or the like the Magistrate might do evill in thus coÌ„maunding and yet not Mr B. in obeying but thus to do in the Church or pulpit in the tyme of Gods worship were as finfull obedience as were the commaundement sinfull All actions ecclesiasticall in or about Gods worship are subordinate to the edification of the Church and to good order if they tend thereto they are lawfull in the commaunder if not they are vnlawfull in him that obeyeth Besides Davids coÌ„mandement for numbring the people was no way vnlawfull in it selfe but vpon occasion both lawfull necessary Numb 1. 2. 26. 4. It was onely the curiosity or pride or infidelity of Davids heart made the sinne which might hurt himself but not Ioab But had Ioab judged the thing commaunded sinne and not to have been obeyed he had sinned in obeying as well as David in commaunding That which Mr B. calls next into quaestion is whether the recusant Ministers may not for the free preaching of the gospel yeeld so far to the evill disposition of the Prelates as to subscribe and conforme vnto their ceremonies though they cannot approve of them nor judge them lawfull For this is the thing M. B. aymes at though he carry the matter something covertly because he would offend neyther party And to perswade vnto this he brings in Paul checking himselfe for reviling the high Preist and observing the legall ceremonyes after abolishment to procure free liberty to preach the gospell and after Moses graunting a bill of divorcement countrary to the law of mariage for the very hardnes of the peoples harts To this I answer sundry things as first to preach the gospell vpon condition of obedience in that wherein a man eyther judgeth or suspecteth himself to sinne is nothing lesse then to preach the gospell freely though this be in truth that free preaching of the gospell in the Church of England whereof we heare so many lowd boasts And to perswade a maÌ„ vnto this is to perswade him to do evill that good may come thereof as though the Lord stood need of mans sinne for the publishing of his truth or saving of his elect The preaching of the gospel is a most excellent thing and the fruits of it far better then those of Eden and oh how happy were we if with exchaunge of halfe the dayes of our lives we might freely publish it to our own nation for the converting of sinners yet must no maÌ„ be so far possessed with the excelleÌ„cy of the obiect as were our first parents with the goodnes bewty and supposed benefit of the forbidden fruit as to presse vnto it by vnlawfull wayes and for a man to go about to perswade to the practise of a thing by the casuall fruits and effects of it not in the meane whyle to cleare the way of feare and scruple of sinne in the meanes of attayning the proposed good is to go about to deceive him whom he perswadeth and by a bayt as it were to til his coÌ„science as a byrd into a snare into most fearful intanglements And for Paul as it is a very vngodly suspition cast vpon him that he should do any thing which he doubted to be syn or which he did not most assuredly know was pleasing vnto God so is it very vntruly affirmed that he did that he did eyther as yeelding to the evil disposition of men or to procure free liberty to preach the gospel He did all things most freely and without any respect to humane authority fulfilling the royall law of love in tendering the weaknes of the brethren newly converted from Iudaism observing with them the legall rytes those also made a part of Gods worship by them and that without all probability of sinning whereof you impeach him Now for Moses he did not graunt that is approve of the bill of divorcement but onely permitted it for the avoyding of a greater evil which civil Magistrates may do in some cases which notwithstanding no man vsed without sinne And what doth this better your popish ceremonies The last thing in quaestion is the case of offence touching which you make many doubts where the holy ghost makes none forgetting your owne good admonition that men should take heed of gâ—â—â—ing distinctions and other evasion through pollicy or fear of trouble to loose sincerity where the word is playn There is not a case in the whole Bible more cleare then that the things called indifferent may and ought to be forborne for the weak conscience of a brother Rom. 14 15. 20. 21. 1 Cor. 9. 19. 20. 21. 22. 10. 23. 24 28. 29. And yet this clear truth you labour to darken by the mist of mans authority pretence of good effects surmises of partiality humour and folly in the partyes offended raysed out
wheat be plucked vp with theÌ„ as though the Lord would have the persons of men respected in judgement yea verily there is more need to look to them in such cases then to any private meÌ„bers whomsoever as whose sinns are more displeasing vnto God more scandalous to them without more pernitious to the Church then of any others Some again wil have this prohibitioÌ„ onely to take place when the multitude of the offenders is so great as that they cannot be censured without danger of schisme and distraction as though the multitude of offenders should priveledge the offence and as though the Lord Iesus by his power given to his Church 1 Cor. 5. 4. should fear to meddle with them for their multitude and might as David feared to meddle with the sonnes of Zeruiah because they were too hard for him The Apostle sayth speaking of the incestious man that little leaven leaveneth the whole lump how much more a great deal which makes all more sower And for answer to both it is apparant the Lord here forbidds the rooting out of any tares whither fewer or more in number whither of high or low growth Let men then cease to draw in by the hayr of the head these parables for the tolerating of the wicked in the Church an intollerable wickednes as most prejudicial to the name of God which is by this meanes blasphemed to the partyes salvation who by this connivency is hardned in his sinne where by due censuring he should be humbled to the health and safety of the body which is hereby corrupted and defyled and to the conversion of them without who by the holy converversation of the Church should be provoked to the love of the truth These things being thus cleared I come in the next place to the true and naturall exposition which I doubt not these scriptures will well bear I do then find two interpretations eyther of both I am assured more agreable to the truth then this forced glosse by me coÌ„futed and neyther of them conteyning in it any thing which the words of the Parable will not beare or which is dissonant to the analogy of faith or any other scripture First admit the feyld be the Church which Christ expounds the world then say I by tares in the feild are meant not notorious offenders but hypocrites not so throughly discovered which by the envy of Satan are foysted into the Church It wil be sayd that tares are easily discerned froÌ„ wheat I answer not alwayes so though oakes may as one of your owne hath spoken upon this scripture and it is certainly reported by such as have travayled Iury those parts to which the Lord hath reference that the weeds we call tares are there very hardly discerned from the true wheat If it be further pressed that the tares are espied I do further answer that it is in parables both curiosity and danger to labour to make all partes meet in every particular and since this particular of spying the tares is omitted by Christ in the exposition wee may well be modest in it But let it be that the tares are seen as the words are the question is who those servants are espying them and so desiring to have them rooted out These servants may well be some speciall persons in the Church endued with a singular spirit of watchfulnes and discerning by which they do discover in some persons this tarish disposition vnder the â—ayl of holynes so Paul spied out that bitter root of envy and pride by which some were set a work to preach Christ such persons notwithstanding must be born till their sinnes be ripe and the Lord lead them forth amongst the workers of iniquity Or by the servants may be here meant the Angels who by conversing much with the Ch both can without doubt do through the subtilty of their nature long experience spy out in the Church much cloked wickednes impiety which as the zealous ministers of Gods justice they are ready to revenge But since the Lord Iesus who best knew his owne meaning calls the feild the world and makes the harvest which is the end of the field the end of the world and not of the Church why should we admit of any other interpretation Neyther is it like that Christ would in the expounding of one parable speak an other as he should have done if calling the feyld the world he had meant the Church As God then in the beginning made man good placed him in the field of the world there to grow where by the envy of the serpent he was soon corrupted so ever since hath the seed of the serpent stirred vp by their father the Divel snarled at the heel of the womans seed and like noysome tares vexed and pestered the good and holy seed which though the children of God both see and feel to their payne yet must they not therefore forgetting what spirit they are of presently call for fyre from heaven nor prevent the Lords hand but wayt his leasure eyther for the converting of these tares into wheat which in many is dayly seen and theÌ„ how great pitty had it been they should so vntimely have been plucked vp or for their finall perdition in the day of the Lord when the Church shal be no more offended by them And that the Lord Iesus no way speaks of the toleration of prophane persons in the 〈…〉 Church doth appear by these reasons First because as hath been observed he doth not contradict himself by forbidding the vse of the keyes in one place which in an other he hath turned vpoÌ„ impenitent offenders Mat. 18. 15. 16. 17. 2. In the excommunication of sinners apparantly obstinate with due circumspection and in the spirit of wisdome meeknes long suffring with such other generall Christian vertues as with which all our speciall sacrifices ought to be seasoned whaâ— daunger can there be of any such disorder as the plucking vp of the wheat with the tares which the husbandman feareth vers 29. Lastly the Lord Iesus speaks of the vtter ruinating destruction of the tares the gathering and plucking them vp by the rootes vers 28. 29. and to this end they are reserved by the husbandman v. 30. ever presupposed they so continued but excommunication rightly administred is not for the ruyne and destruction of any but for the salvation of the party thereby humbled 1 Cor. 5. 5. But to conclude admit of Mr B. exposition that the field here is the visible Church the good seed the good godly the tares wicked and vngodly persons I am contented that the difference in this place betwixt him and me be tryed at the tribunall of this very scripture even thus expounded and I doubt not but it will pronounce a cleare sentence on my side in the thing for which I contend and that is that the Church in the right gathering
〈…〉 and it haâ—h the being from them The 2. I gather from Mr B. own graunt where treating of the causes and properties of the Church he makes the true matter such as professe Christ Iesus their onely saviour and the form to be the vniting of men to God and one to another visibly Now except he will say which God forbid that none may make profession of faith and be vnited to Christ without officers he cannot deny but there may be and so be called a Church without them For all vnited vnto Christ the head are members of the body which is the Ch and so the whol assembly ioyntly considered is an whole and entyre body and Church So that to deny an ordinary assembly or communion of Christians to be a Christian Church is an vnchristian opinion And here I entreat the indifferent reader to consider whether these mens wayes be equall or no. When we deny their assemblies to be true visible Churches though they consist for the most part of prophane and vngodly persons vnder the government of a Provinciall or Diocesan Bishop and the Ministery of a dumb or prophane Preist as the most do to which also the best is subiect within one moneth they complayn of vs as most injurious detracters and yet will not they acknowledge any assembly of faithful holy people onely if vnfurnished for a time of officers to be a true Church or capable of that denomination But let not the harts of Gods servants be discouraged he is no accepter of mens persons he hath not tyed his power and presence to any order or office in the world but accepted of them that feare him and work righteousnes hating the assemblyes of the wicked and all their sacrifices Vpon this point I haue insisted the longer partly because it is the ground of the other truthes to be handled in their places and partly in detestation of the vnsufferable pryde of this Prelacy and Preisthood which will have the very life of all Churches to hang on the breath of their nostrels yea I may safely say on their lusts if they dy yea or forsake their charges in never so fleshly respects their Churches are dissolved at least during the vacancy and so the brethren dismembred from being of the visible body of Christ. But so far are the officers from being the formall cause of the Church as is intended as they are in truth no absolutely necessary appurtenance vnto it The power indeed to enioy them is an essentiall property seated in the body which may braunch out it self as God gives fit means into officers accordingly which if they prove unfruitful it may also accordingly lop or break off And so farr is the Holy Ghost from giving countenance to this opinion that the Officers make the Church as when he speakes distinctly of the body and officers and considers them severally he calls the body the Church excluding the Elders as appeares in these amongst many oâ—her scriptures Act. 14. 23. 15. 4. and 20. 17. 28. 1 Tim. 3. 5. 15. And the reason is because the Church is essentially in the saincts as the matter subject formed by the coverâ—ant unto which the officers are but adjuncts not making for the being but for the welbeing of the Church and furtherance of her fayth by their service The second poynt now comes to be manifested which is that two or three faythful persons joyned unto the Lord in the fellowship of the Gospel have immediate interest to Christ in all his ordinances Now least any should stumble at these words two or three ioyned or gathered together as it seems Mr. B. would hereby take advantage to discountenance so small a number it must be coÌ„sidered that two or three thus gathered together have the same right with two or three hundred Neyther the smallnes of the number nor meannes of the persons can prejudice their right When the Lord did chose one nation from all other nations he chose the smallest amongst them fewest in number And though now Christ have opened a way for all nations yet is it a narrow way and which few finde especially in the first planting or replanting of Churches of which Christ speaks most properly in which regard also he likens the the kingdome of heaven or Church to a grain of mustard-feed which is the least of all seeds but yet hath vertue in it to bring forth a tree in whose boughes the birds of heaven may build their nests And against this exception of discouragement Christ himself hath provided a coÌ„fortable remedie in speaking expresly of two or three to whom he hath given his power and promised his presence Now for the poynt it self the truth whereof is sufficiently manifested by that which hath been â—ormerly layed down If a company of faythfull people though without officers be the true Ch. and body of Christ and Israel of God then to that company apperteynes the covenants of promise the oracles of God are committed untothem and to them are given his word statutes and iudgments so they may freely enjoy them amongst themselves in the order by Christ prescribed without any forreyn Ministers for Mediators II. They that have received Christ have received the power of Christ and his whole power for Christ and his power are not devided nor one part of his power from another But every company or communion of faythful people have received Christ. Ioh. 1 12. Rom. 8. 32. Isa. 9. 6. and with him power and right to enjoy him though all the world be against it in al the meanes by which he doth communicate himself unto hiâ— Church III. When the Scriptures would give us to understand the near union betwixt Christ and his Church and the free and full title which he hath given her in himself and all his most rich and pretious benefits they do teach the same by resemblances of most streight and immediate conjunction as of that between the vine and the branches the head and the body the husband and the wise and so as the branches do receive and draw the sap and juice immediately from the vine and as the body receiveth sense and motion from the head immediately and as the wife hath immediate right to and interest in her husbands both person and goods for her use though she may and ought to use the service of her husbands and own servants as they can be had for convenient purposes so hath every true visible Church of Christ direct â—nd immediate interest in and title to Christ himselfe and the whole new Testament every ordinance of it without any vnnaturall monstrous and adulterous interposition by any person whatsoever betwixt the vyne and the branches the head and the body the husband the wife which are Christ and his Church though but two or three gathered together in his name as hath formerly been manifested If all things be the Churches even the ministers
of you where your your fellow Ministers power of excommunication had been duetify as an obedient child in giving the rod of discipline into the hands of your reverend fathers alone and their substitutes Well Mr B. whomsoever the Lord Iesus meant by the Church Mat. 18. he never meant that the Archbishop of York the Archdeacon of Nottingham the Officiall of Southwel were the Church of Worksop and for this I vvill spare all Arguments and send you to your owne guilty conscience for conviction which as it condemns you in yourself which is also the case of many thowsands in the Land so do I earnestly wish both you and them to remember with fear and trembling the condemnation of him that is greater then your cōscience Ioh. 3. 20. So far are they from being the Church of Worksop as they are not so much as members of it nor of any other particular Church in the kingdome they are neyther the Pastours so called nor vnder the Pastors of any particular Church but with their tanscendent jurisdiction in their Provinciall and Diocesan Churches take their scope without orb or order and as clouds without rayn carryed about with the wind of ambition and covetousnes for the the greatest part To leave them and come to your reasons Mr B. by which you would prove that tell the Church is tell the governours But here behold the fruites of an vnstable mind This man in his former book laboured by many scriptures and reasons to lay downe the nature of the Churches government and in speciall to prove that the Church Math. 18. 17. to vvhich complaint of sinns was to be made was the cheif officers onely and this he affirmes also to be the iudgement and the practise of all reformed Churches But lo now in his second book he devoures the hallowed thing and labours vvithall his power to persvvade young divines seely country people as he speakes and as in truth they had need be both young and seely that are perswaded by him that the points of discipline and Church-government are not so apparant by the scriptures as that they can rightly iudge of them And to this end he brings in the variety of iudgements and contradictions of learned men some holding no government at all others that an externall government is to be had but of these some holding it alterable others constant and perpetuall and of these some to be in the Pope Cardinalls others in the body of the congregatiō some in the Presbytery with the peoples consent and others which he puts last as best and for which he brings sundry reasons referring the reader to the treatises written to that end in the Bishops his Lords And againe touching the punishment of offenders some he brings in holding excommunication but not suspension some holding both and some neyther And particularly for Math. 18. he musters in thick and threefold reasons and persons so reasoning and proving that the place and so of Lev. 19. 17. doth nothing at all concern discipline or ecclesiasticall censures but that Christs meaning there was onely to direct the Iewes how to carry things before the Synedrion in cases of bodily injury And thus he brings mens contrary opinions to darken the scriptures which are most playne like so many foul feet to trouble the pure fountaynes of living water that the thirsty may not drink of them And as a learned man in our age nation to discover the vanity of prognosticatours gathered together their contrary guesses of the wether and so presented them so this man to make the government of Christs Church as vncertayne as an Almanack sets together and so offers to the vvievv of the world the contrarieties of opinions concerning it Now if other men should take this course Mr B. doth in other points of religion and one lay down the differences that are about predestination the points depending vpon it some vtterly denying it others affirming it and of these some grounding it vpon Gods mere grace others vpō mans faith or workes foreseen an other about baptisme some denying it to all infants others ministring it to all others to such onely as are of Christian parents in a sort and others onely to them that are of beleeving parents at the least on the one side a third about the Lords supper in which point some hold transubstantiation others consubstantiation others onely a sacramentall vnion which some also will have merely rationall others reall also there could not be a playner way beaten for all Atheism to come into the world by nor a course devised by the Divell more pregnant to perswade the multitude that there were no certaynty nor soundnes in the scriptures But let God have the glorie of his truth and of the clearnes in it and let men bear the just blame and shame of their naturall blyndnes and in speciall let Christ have the honour of being as faythfull in his owne house as Moses was in his Maisters in setting orders and officers in it and let not vile flesh dare to flatter Princes and Prelates to mislead silly soules and to preach liberty and licentiousnes to the world make Christ Iesus an Idol King having a kingdome vpon earth without lawes or officers for the administring of it nor to make his redeemed Idoll subjects as whom it concerns little or nothing whether they be vnder Chrits lawes and officers or vnder Antichrists his professed adversary Now though I will not trouble my self and the reader about every stone that Mr. B. idely casts in the way yet such as may stumble the weakest passenger I will remove and so returne to my former task And in the first place I will answer certaine reasons in number six brought by Mr B. for the superiority of his Lord Bishops but those not backed with the scriptures as in other points when he thinks he speaks the truth his manner is The first is taken from the succession of Iames at Ierusalem of Peter at Antioch of Peter Paul at Rome of Mark at Alexandria I answer first that these were not Bishops set over certayn Churches here and there though vpon occasion they tarryed some good space in some certayne Churches but generall men Apostles and Evangelists without successours in their Offices so the Protestants do generally answer the Papists instancing them as you do now 2. I deny the very Apostles vsed any such Lordly and Papall authority as to exclude eyther the inferiour officers or people in Church affaires the contrary is most evident in the choice of officers Act. 1. 15. 23. 26. and 6. 1. 2. 3. 5. censuring of offenders 1 Cor. 5. and debating of other Church matters Act. 15. 2. 3. 4. 6. 7. 22. 23. 30. 21. 22. The 2. Argument is taken from 1 Cor. 12. 28. where say you three degrees are reckoned vp the first of Apostles the second of Prophets the third of Teachers But since the
speach to the 2. person not saying what it but what you shall bind and loose c. In so saying you give the cause though you presently eat vp your own graunt For you affirm that by the Church ver 17. is meant the whole body of which Christ speaks in the third person and what say wee more But where you adde that the authoritie is not given till the 18. vers and that then Christ turns his speach to his Apostles it is your own devised glosse For first it is evident that Christ establisheth the power of binding and loosing in the hands of the Church speaking in the 3. person v. 17. that so firmely as what brother soever refuseth to heare her voice is to be expelled from all religious cōmunion Vnto this the 18. v. is added partly for explanation and partly for confirmation For where as the party admonished might say with himself well if the Church disclaim mee I shall disclaym it if it condemn me I shall condemn it again the Lord doth here back the Churches censures for her incouragement and for the terrour of the refractary despising her voice and that vnder a contestation that what she bindes and looseth vpon earth namely after his will he also will bind and loose in heaven And for the change of persons in the 17. and 18 verses it is merely grammaticall and not naturall It is common with the Holy Ghost sometimes for elegancy sometimes for explication sometimes for further inforcement of the same thing to and vpon the same persons thus to vary the phrase of speach in the first second or third person grammatically as the reader may take a tast in these particulars Psal. 75. 1. Is. 1. 2. 3. 4. 5. 6. c. Math. 5. 10. 11. 12. c. and in this very Chapt. v. 7. 8. Rom. 6. 14. 15. 16. 8. 4. 5. 12. 13. c. Your 3. Reason that bycause Christ speakes of a few two or three gathered together therefore he meanes the officers of the Church and not all the body is of no force if the body consist but of two or three as it comes to passe where Churches are raysed in persecution as the most true Churches are Yet if Christ do speak of two or three officers of a Church gathered together in his name he speaks against you where all the power of the keyes over many 1000. Churches are in the hands of two Arch-Prelates and from them delegated and derived to their severall vnderlings But the truth is that gratious promise which Christ here layes downe for the comfort of all his saints you do engrosse into the hands of a few Elders You might aswel affirme that onely two or three officers gathered together have a promise to be heard in their prayers and not a communion of two or three brethren for Christ v. 19. 20. speakes principally and expressely of prayer though with reference to the binding and loosing of sin which as all other ordinances are sanctified by prayer The very scope of the place and reason of the speach is this The Lord Iesus had v 18. enfranchised the Church with a most excellent and honourable priveledge now the disciples did already see with their own eyes and were more fully taught by their Maister that the Church should arise from small and base beginnings and that it was also by reason of persequution subject to great dissipation Math. 7. 14. 10. 17. 18. 22. 23. 13. 31. 32. least therefore their harts should be discouraged and they or others driven into suspition that the Lord would any way neglect them or his promise towards them for their paucity and meannes he most gratiously prevents and frees them from that jealousy telles them and all others for their comfort that though the Church or assembly consist but of two or three as such beginnings the true Church of God had and have though your English Church begū with a kingdome in a day Act. 16. 14. 15. 17. 34. 19. 7. yet that should no way diminish their power or prejudice the accomplishment of his promise And the reason hath been formerly rendred bycause this power for binding loosing being given to the fayth of Peter depends not vpon the order of office multitude of people or dignity of person but merely vpon the word of God And hence is it that Christ thus gratiously descends even to two or three wheresoever assembled in his name yea though it be in a Cave or Den of the earth of which most gratious and necessary priveledge you would bereave them Now in your 4. Reason out of v. 19 you do most ignorantly erre in the grāmaticall construction for you make a change of the person agayne where there is no change at all Christ speakes onely in the third person as the originall makes it plaine though the English tongue do not so distinctly manifest it to an ignorant man Christ sayth not whatsoever you two shall agree of shal be given to them that is to the Church but whatsover two of you shall agree of or consent in they two that so agree shall obteyne it of God Which words Mr B. you do most vnsufferably pervert to the seducing of the ignorant as if Christ had sayd if two or three of you officers or you two or three officers shall agree together of a thing whatsoever they that is the Church shall desire namely of the Officers for so you expound the words it shal be givē them where it is most evident that they which are to agree vpon the thing they are to ask it and that of God who will give it them And where the scripture sayth that the brother offended speaking indefinitely of any brother and so of the Officers themselves must complayn to the Church M B. on the contrary as if he would even beard the Lord Iesus tells vs the Church must complayn to the Officers Your 5. Reason followes with many litle ones in the womb of it which you bring forth in order to prove that Christ speakes here figuratively and that by the Church he means the governours The first is It agrees with the practise of the Iewish Church frō whence it is held that the manner of governing in the Church is fetched And is this the necessary proof you speak of whatsoever is so held is so in truth And yet in your second book as hath been shewed you bring in sundry men holding contrary things as if contraries could be true Well I confesse it is so held and that by many with whom I would gladly consent if the scriptures taught me not to hold otherwise It had been good here the authour had shewed vs what the government of the Iewish Church was and not thus sleightily to have passed over things of this moment For the purpose in hand thus much The Church of the Iewes was a nationall Church the Lord separating vnto himself the whole natiō
had not excommunicated the incestuous person Bastingius in the 4. place quaestion 85. of his Catichism speaking of the difference between the two keyes that of preaching the other of discipline places it in this that the former which is of the preaching of the gospel is committed to the Ministers the other bycause it perteyns to the discipline of excommunication is permitted to the whole Church Lastly even Beza himself how streyt soever he be to the multitude in this case hardly graunting them the liberty which Mr B. yea which the very Iesuits do namely that they were with the Elders gathered together in the name of the Lord Iesus 1 Cor. 5. 4. yea do playnely deny it in his Annotations vpon 2 Cor. 2. 6. Yet vpon v. â— he is constreyned to affirm that Paul intreats that the incestuous person might by the publique consent of the Church be declared a brother as he was by the Churches publique consent cast out Now to these speciall lights in the reformed Churches abroad I will annex a few of the cheif endeavours of reformation at home The first of them is Mr Hooper who in his Apology writes that excoÌ„municatioÌ„ should be by the Bishop the whole Parish that Pauls consent the whole Church with him did excoÌ„municate the incestuous man To him adde Mr Fox whose judgement in the book of Martyrs pag. 5. 6. 7. is and so is inforced by him that writ the discovery of D. Banâ—r ofts vntruthes and slaunders against reformation that every visible Church or congregation hath the power of binding and loosing annexed to it If it be sayd the Church hath it if the Officers have it I see not but it may be as well sayd the Church hath the scriptures in a known tongue if the Officers so enjoy them Thirdly Mr Cartwright in his reply to D. Whitgifts answer pag. 147 both affirms and proves that Paul both vnderstanding and observing the rule of our Saviour Christ communicates this power of excommunication with the Church Him also an other writing A demonstration of discipline alledgeth adding further that they which were met togither 1 Cor. 5. 4. 5. were to excommunicate the incestuous person with whom also consorteth he that wrote of the certayn form of ecclesiasticall governmentâ— who vnder that head of the authority of the Ministers of the word that by the Church Math. 18. Christ meanes a particular Congregation the Pastor Elders people consenting making that the iudgement of the particular congregation which is spoken of 1 Cor. 5. 12. In the 4. place Mr Iacob in his book to the King for reformation pag. 28. pleads for the peoples consent and voyce-giving in elections excommunications to whom I ioyn them that made the Christian offer to iustify against the Bishops and their adhaerents that every ordinary assembly of the faithfull hath by Christs ordinance power in it self immediately vnder Christ to elect and ordeyn deprive and depose their Ministers and to exequute all other ecclesiasticall censures Proposition 5. Prop. 8 that the officers can do no materiall ecclesiasticall act without the free consent of the Congregation Lastly the godly Ministers in the end of Mr Bernards book do directly judge against him interpreting the Church Math. 18. to be a particular Congregation and excommunication the iudgement censure of that particular congregation whereof the offender is a member Thus have I been constreyned by the bold boasting and facing which this man vseth of and with the iudgement of all reformed Churchâ—â— to set downe the judgements of some few amongst many both at home and abroad for his conviction though I desire the touchstone of the holy scriptures alone may try all differences betwixt him and me I now return to Mr Bernard where I left him so come to two reasons he annexeth pag. 98. 99. to prove the officers to be called the Church the former is because it is an vsuall speach to put the name of the whole vpon the part and this to be taken for the whole The 2. bycause a company is no where called a Church in the new testament but where they have officers The latter of these I have formerly confuted as the reader may see pag. 126. 127. c. Onely I adde one thing vpon occasion of these words a Church in the new testament that as there is but one body or Church and we vnder the new testament that one or the same body or Church with the Iewes in the old so if the Ministery made the Church how much more if it were the Church could it not be that the Iewes and we should be one Church for I shall never be brought to beleeve nor I think will any man affirm it that the Ministery of an Apostle or Elder now is the same in nature with the Ministery of a sacrificing Levite vnder the law Wee are by faith sonnes and daughters of Abraham and partaker of the covenant and promises and by fayth grafted in their holy root and in this stands our onenes with them but neyther in the Ministery nor in the government nor in any other ordinance which are but manners of dispensing that covenant and those divers changeable where the covenant is nothing lesse And for the former of your reasons howsoever the place you bring Act. 15. 3. proves no such matter yet is the thing true you say namely that a part of the Church is sometimes called by the name of the whole but what part not the officers but the brethren the saynts as being the matter an essentiall cause of the Church the Elders not so as being but for the assistance and well being of it And so the Church gives both being and denomination to the Elders but not the Elders to the Church which is never called the Church of the Elders as they are called the Elders of the Church and so are of it and not it of them That which you adde of inconveniences and discommodities following vpon your doctrine not to be regarded is frivolous except by them you mean absurdities and inconsequences â—a alâ—gâ— in theologia as they call them and then they are to be regarded as never necessarily following vpon any truth for the truth brings forth no errour by true consequence The sixth Reason of the superiour order followeth for Mr B. hath his reasons and his vnder reasons which is In it self the multitude being ever vnconstant it is instability vnorderlynesse where every one is a like equall it is the nourse of confusion the mother of schisme the breeder of contention These very same things have been formerly objected by you in the fourth part of your 5. argument and there cleared The truth is the drawing of all power into the officers hands breeds in them pride and arrogancy and in the people ignorance and security And for your contemptuous vpbrayding of Gods people in this book with inconstancy
costly stones of cedaâ—s firres and the like special trees and those all prepared before hand hewed and perfit for the building so that neyther hammer nor ax nor any tool of iron was to be heard in the house in the building of it * By the gates of the house were the porters set that none that was vnclean in any thing should enter in Vpon the altar there might be offered no vnclean beast no nor that which was clean having a blemish vpon it And is any rubbish and riâ—rat now good enough for this †spirituall house and temple of God the Church whereof the material temple was but a carnall shadow may the porters the officers let into it the clean vnclean without difference may dogges and swyne and all vnclean beasts and byrdes promiscuously be offered vpoÌ„ * the altar we have in our spiritual tabernacle God forbid And far be it from the servants of the Lord to prepare his Maiesty such a house to dwell in or to defile his holy things with such vnclean persons or to offend his nostrels with the stench of such sacrifices Yea whosoever shall bring me this doctrine that a man of known wicked conversation without such appearance of repentance as the Church by the word of God rule of charity is to judge true may by warrant of the word or practise of the Apostles be received and admitted into the Church by the pratling of a verball profession I will hold that man yea though he were an angel from heaven accursed And for the places which Mr B. brings for this purpose they are so evident against him as when I read them I do even wonder with what conscience modesty or wisdome he could set them down They do speak in deed of faith and the profession of faith in and by such as were received into the Church but of what fayth of a dead faith without works as Iames speaks or fruitfull in evil works which is worse nothing lesse but of such a faith as hath the expresse promise of life eternall annexed vnto it even of that faith which purifieth the heart and worketh by love towards God and man The places of scripture are these Rom. 10. 9. Ioh. 1. 12. 3. 36. Ioh. 17. 3. Act. 2. 36. 8. 37. 9. 20. 11. 26. 16. 31. 33. 19. 4. â— â—8 28. Luk. 24. 47. 1 Cor. 15. 3. 3. 11. Godly reader view the places one by one and see if any one of them speak of a verball faith onely begot in the mouth or of such a profession of faith as hath ioyned with it a prophane conversation the contrary will appear as cleare as the sun and in it how evill a conscience this man vseth thus to pervert the scriptures to the maintenance of a vile opinion and prophane practise Your 4. Reason to prove that the profession of the mayn truth before layd down is of force to make a true Christian is that by it the man so professing doth differ from Iewes Turks Pagans Papists He doth in deed for he is so much worse then they by his verball profession of the truth taking Gods name in vayn and dishonouring it farr more then the other 1 Tim. 5. 8. Isa. 52. 5. Rom. 2. 24. And what matter is it from whom he differs that differs not from but is one of the men of the world a lim of Sathan and an habitation of his spirit Lastly â—â— fire it may be considered whether you be not a partiall and 〈◊〉 judge betwixt the Papists and your selves They for shutting â—â— their works at a third or fourth hand with faith in the 〈…〉 f salvation must be judged â—â—â—se matter and their errour against the 〈◊〉 of faith in the Sonne of God and destroying it against he truth of the gospel bycause it is against the sacrifice of Christs Preisthood and yet you though you yoak Antichrist with Christ and the Popes Canons with Christs Testament in the spirituall government of the soules and bodyes of his people and so sin against the scepter of his kingdome must be reputed true matter your errour no way against the nature of faith or truth of the gospell as though true faith did not as well apprehend Christ a King as a Prophet in the cause of salvation though not in the act of iustification and as though the order which Christ hath left in the Evangelists Actes and Epistles to Timothy and Titus for the gathering and government of his Church were not as well a part of the gospel and so the obiect of faith as any other portion of it Yea to conclude I tell you Mr B. and not I but the holy Ghost and I pray you consider it well that a lewd coÌ„versation and evill conscience is as damnable a sin and as directly against the nature of faith in the sonne of God and the truth of the gospel and doth as plainly destroy faith and prejudice salvation as any eyther Popish or other haeresy in the world Luk. 24. 47. 1 Cor. 5. 11. Gal. 5. 19. 20. 21. Ephe. 5. 5. 6. 1 Tim. 1. 19. 5. 8. 1 Ioh. 1. 6. But graunt as you would have it that profession in word with an apparant denyall of the same in deed made a true Christian or true matter of the Church and that the Apostles built the Lords house of such stones which for me to graunt were both solly and impiety as it is in you to affirm it yet would it no way advantage you nor iustify your Church For the profession by which the Apostles and Apostolike Churches received meÌ„bers was voluntary and personall freely made by the particular persons which ioyned themselves vnto the Lord as the scriptures by you quoted prove as every one that readeth them may see but where was or is any such personall and particular profession vsed or required of any men or women in the replanting of your Church after Popery A man may go out of these countryes wher I now live as many do and hyre a house in any parrish of the land â—e is by the right of his house or fâ—rm a member of the paâ—rish Church where he dwels yea though he have been nousled vp all his life loÌ„g in Popery or Atheism though he were formerly neyther of any Church or religion Yea though he should professe that he did not look to be saved by Christ onely and alone but by his good meanings and well doings yet if he will come hear divine service he is matter true as steel for your Church yea be he of the Kings naturall subiectes he shall by order of law be made true matter of the Church whether he will or no. And what profession of faith in this very case of salvation the body of your Church makes or would make if men freely spake their thoughts a Minister of good note amongst your selves shall testify out of his own experience The
person is Mr Nichols who in his Plea of the innocent expresly affirms that conferring with the particular persons in his parish after he had preached some good space amongst them about the meanes of salvation of 400 coÌ„municants he scarce found one but that thought and professed a man might be saved by his own wâ—ll doing and thaâ— he trusted he did so love that by Gods grace he should obteyn everlasting lâ—se by serving God and good prayers Now how do these agree together Mr B sayth that all professe salvation by Christ onely and alone Mr Nichols on the coÌ„trary affirms out of his own experience that not one of 400 so thinks and professes And if he and all the ministers in England should deny it we out selves by our own experience know what the fayth and perswasion of the multitude in most places is Now for your further reasoning that bycause a Bishop or two published this and some other mayn truthes vnto the world with the approbation of the Parliament and Convocation house and that some preachers here there do so teach therefore all the land so professeth where many thowsands do not so much as vnderstaÌ„d it what can be imagined more vayn Can men professe the truth they know noâ— What is this but the Papists implicit faith when men beleiv as the Church beleiveth though they know not what it is yea and worse then it also for as we see and know infinite multitudes beleive and vpon occasion professe the contrary But most vayn of all is it to affirm that bycause a few godly martyrs have sealed vp this the like truthes with their blood that therefore they that murdered them professe the same truth are true ChristiaÌ„s without any other change wrought in them for the most part then by the Magistrates sword and authority You affirm by way of answer pag. 249. of your second book that the Magistrates compulsion vnto goodnes is no hurt vnto it neyther makes men vnholy or lesse good if they have goodnes in them As it is not simply true you affirm that the compulsion of men to the faith doth not hurt it for if the causing the truth to be blasphemed be to hurt it then the coÌ„pelling of apparant wicked persoÌ„s to professe the same hurts it as it doth both them and the Church whereof they are so if the body of the land in the beginning of the Queens reign were good and holy at all the magistrates compulsion wrought it in men made them of persequuting Idolaters true Christians for other meanâ—â— intervening or coÌ„ming betwixt their professioÌ„ of the masse of the gospell had they none saving the Magistrates authority But here I am by necessity and in respect of the present matter in hand drawn into Mr B. 2. book and a great benefit were it to me if there I might find him though in both vnfound yet one and the same But a great trouble it is to walk with a drunken man and to be bound to follow him in all his vagaâ—ies so is it to deal with an adversary light headed dizzy with wrath vanity and errour whom a man must follow in all his staggerings and reelings to and fro and in all the forwards and backwards that he makes oft times going and vngoing again the same by-pathes There is no one thing wherevpon Mr B labours more in his former book and for which he brings more reasons and scriptures and those often repeated then to prove the Church of EnglaÌ„d or rather such particular Churches as have the word preached in them to be truely gathered after the suppressing of Popery and by the order of the Apostolick Churches both in respect of separation from Idolatours and Antichristian Papists pag. 108 as also by profession of the mayn truth and sum of the Gospell wherein they differed from Iewes Turks and Pagans as no matter and also from Papists as false matter of the Church pag 111. 112. 113. 116. And therefore having proved by a multitude of scriptures that the Apostolick Churches were gathered by free profession of fayth he concludes thus of them and of his own Church such as make this profession are true matter and so are wee for we all professe this fayth c. But now as though he had eyther forgotten what he wrote before or cared not how he crossed himselfe so he might oppose vs against whom he hath vowed such vtter emnity he suckes in his former breath and eats the words he had formerly vttered peremptorily affirming in his 2. book that in the reformation of a Church after Popery there is not required any such profession nor yet the word of God to go before their reformation but that the feare of the Magistrates sword is sufficient to recover them and to setle the people in order to the worship of God The ground vpon which he builds this his new and crosse opinion is the practise of Asa Ezechias Iosias and Nehemiah godly Kings and Princes of Iudah in the reformation of that Church after her Apostacy in the dayes of vngodly Idolatrous Kings therevpon taking it for graunted that the catholique visible Ch of Rome as it is called now is and that the national Church of England in Queen Maries dayes and before when Popery reigned was in the same estate with Iudah in her apostacy he concludes thence that as the Magistrates then without any voluntary profession did by force bring the people of the Iewes back from Idolatry to the true service of God so might King Edward and Queen Elizabeth by force bring back the people of England into covenant with God to be his true Church without any such profession of fayth as in the first planting of Churches is required We will then consider of this poynt at large as being both weighty in it self and having many others depending vpon it That Iudah was at the first and so continued by vertue of the Lords Covenant with her forefathers on his part faythfully remembred and kept though by her oft tymes broken the true Church of God and holy in the root till she was broken of for vnbeleif after the death resurrection and ascension of Christ fully published and confirmed by the Apostles I graunt with him but the same or the like things of the Church of Rome or of England in the respects layd down may I not acknowledg That there was at Rome a true Church beloved of God called saynts by giving obedience vnto the fayth is apparant but that eyther the city or Church of Rome consisting of many cities and countryes was ever within the Lords covenant and holy in the root as Iudah was may I neyther acknowledg neyther can he possibly prove So for England I wil not deny but there were at the first true Churches planted in it by the preaching of the gospell and obedience of fayth and these as the other Churches in every nation though in
Azariah Obed he not onely went on with that work but * asseÌ„bled together all Iudah Beniamin 〈…〉 which had 〈…〉 out of Israel wheÌ„ they saw the Lord his God was with him that they made a covenant to seek the L. God of their fathers with all their hart with all 〈…〉 that whosoever would not seek the L. God of 〈…〉 whether he were â—â—â—al or great man or woman the same covenaÌ„t with the Lord being coÌ„firmed by an oth it is sayd that all Iudah reioyced at the 〈…〉 the reason is added for they had sworn vnto the Lord with â—â—â— their 〈…〉 and fought him with a whole desire he was found of them The Lord as he had chosen this whole kingdome to be his people and raysed vp this and the like notable instruments of reformation amongst them so did he vpon this and the like occasions work a most wonderful and extraordinarie work vpon them bowing their harts vniversally to the love of his word for the present and to the receiving of the same with ioy together with all readines vnto the obedience of his commaundements the like vnto which never was nor shal be seen to the end of the world in a whole kingdome except the Lord do again chuse one nation from all other nations to be his people as then he did And I am verily perswaded that Mr B. how bold soever he be in his affirmations will not say the like of all England eyther in the beginning or end of King Edwards or Queen Elizabeths reign which the scriptures themselves here and els where do testify of all Iudah whither we respect the disposition of the people whose hearts vniversally the Lord on his part did thus affect or the solemn covenant which they on theirs did contract or rather renue with him And here I do further also infer since all Iudah reioyced at the oath of the covenant and swore vnto the Lord with all their heart and sought him with a whole desire 2 Chr. 15. 13. and that the hand of God was in Iudah so that he gave them one heart to do the commaundement of the King and of the rulars according to the word of the Lord Ch. 30. 12. and so at other tymes that it is most vntruely affirmed by Mr B. how oft soever he repeat it that the reformation of Iudah was not voluntary but of compulsion and of fear True it is that the Kings of Iudah made compulsive lawes for the reformation of the people or rather for their continuance in that reformation to which they had voluntarily submitted but as Mr B. ignorance is intollerable in that his seditious errour tending indeed to the disturbance and subversion of all states civil and ecclesiastical that †voluntarinesse is taken away by being vnder any government that to be subiect and ruled is an estate far from fredome and that Christians loose therby christian liberty so should he here have observed a difference betwixt compulsion active and passive as they speak or more playnly thus that it is one thing for Kings or men in authority to require of their subiects the performance of necessary duties or the forbearance of the contrary vpon such and such penaltyes and another thing for their subiects to obey them herein for fear and involuntarily Many of the Kings lawes do require loyalty of all his subiects towards his maiesty and do forbid vpon payn of death al treasons rebellions now wil any man hereupoÌ„ be so vnadvised as to affirm that therfore all the Kings subjects do forbear treasons and rebellions through compulsion and fear and vnwillingly That godly magistrates are by compulsion to represse publique notable idolatry as also to provide that the truth of God in his ordinance be taught and published in their dominions I make no doubt it may be also it is not vnlawfull for them by some penalty or other to provoke their subjects vniversally vnto hearing for their instruction and conversion yea to graunt they may inflict the same vpon them if after due teaching they offer not themselves vnto the Church but that any King now vpon earth is by the word of God to draw all the people of his nation into covenant with the Lord how much lesse before they be coÌ„veniently taught and to confirm the same by oath and to inflict death vpon all that refuse it or remayn wicked and vnrepentant as the Kings of Iudah were to do by the people of that nation can never be proved by Mr B. or any other man how oft soever they bring in their practises for presidents And if the Kings of Engl. should hold it their duty as the Kings of Israel held it theirs to destroy all the wicked of the land and to slay all that would not seek the Lord God of Israel with all their hart and with all their soule whether great or small man or woman should practise accordingly they would be left barer of subjects then I hope they shal be To these considerations let this be added that when David the most famous King of Israel had subdued the nations round about him and made them tributaries and reigned over them he did not force them into the Church by compulsive lawes nor take any such violeÌ„t courses that we read of Neyther can you shift of the matter Mr B. by alleadging that these nations were heathens and infidels and such as made no profession of religion nor were circumcised for amongst the rest over whom David ruled the Edomites are named which were the posterity of holy Abraham as well as the Israelites comming of Esau as they of Iaakob who did also besides many mayn truthes reteyn circumcision and that true also as well as the Papists reteyn true baptism and by which they might as truely be deemed the Lords people though in apostasie as the Papists by the other To end this argument of violence in religion to which it is very vnnaturall neyther Hezechiah nor Iosiah nor any other King eyther of Iudah or England had or hath power from God to compel an apparant prophane person so remayning eyther to joyn vnto or continue in the Church and the Church so to receive continue him The Kings of Iudah as I haue shewed were to destroy and put to death all such wicked ones and so to weed them out of the Church by the sword according to the dispensation of those tymes to what end then doth Mr B. bring in them their authority eyther for the planting or watering of such persons in the Church for which purpose notwithstanding he produceth them So for other Kings though they be not to destroy all the wicked in their land or nation as not being to gather a nationall Church so are they to vse their authority for the preserving pure of the Church to see that wicked â—lagitious persons be neither taken into nor kept in the Ch to the
become one body with them he the head and they the members as it is betwixt him and his Church 1 Cor. 10. 17. 12. 12. 27. Lastly no Woman having a former housband alive may take a second or be lawfully maryed vnto him but wicked prophane persons have a former husband yet living even the law or sin taking occasion by the law to work in them all manner of lust ruling over them as the husband over the wife to which also they are bound as the wife vnto the housband Rom. 7. 1. 2. 3. 5. 8. therefore cannot be maryed vnto Christ nor become his wife The 2. similitude followeth A man professing obedience to a king as his alone sovereign and obeying his lawes in the general though he transgresse in some things openly greatly is that Kings true subiect notwithstanding You deal vnfaithfully put the case wrong The question is of a man professing himself in word the Kings loyall subiect his alone but in deed truth the sworn slave of his professed enemy an apparant rebell against the Kings majesty And whether such a one be a true subiect vnto the King or no for such and no better are wicked profane men whatsoever in word they professe even slaves and vassals of the Divel and rank rebels against the L. Iesus Right now you would have Rome a true Church now you will have Iesuites the Kings true subjects for such they professe themselves as boldly as falsly And yet no Romish Preist or Iesuit is more treacherous to the Kings person state then is a prophane vngoldly man professing Christianity to the crown dignity of Christ Iesus The 3. resemblance is of a man professing one onely trade though bunglingly or carelesly whom none will call a false trades-man but eyther no good trades-man or vnprofitable yet truely that trades-man by his profession Here as before you mis-put the case you should instance in a man professing a trade or faculty but practising the contrary in his generall course For example a man professeth himself in word a surgeon or physition but is observed and found in deed and practise to poyson men and cut their throtes and this to be his resolved course Now so charitable is Mr B. as he will have this man still called and that truely a Physition or surgeon though not good nor profitable But the truth is he is a false and treacherous homicyde and murtherer and so to be abhorred of all but of none eyther to be called or accounted a true physition or surgeon eyther good or evil Such a one and no better is he to his own soul that vnder the profession of Christianity in word practiseth wickednes and impiety and hath his conversation in them The authour having thus ended his defence for the bad and naughty matter of his Church so granted by him in effect comes to speak of false matter but so breifly and darkly withall as it appears plainly he is loth to meddle with it least in the handling his bad matter should prove false matter as it comes to passe with counterfeyt coyn That he sayth then is that false matter is contrary to this true matter that is to the true matter of which he hath spoken Wherevpon it followeth that since the true matter he hath spoken of is wicked and vngodly men though professing Christ and that holy and godly men are contrary to men wicked vngodly that therefore godly and holy men are contrary to the true matter of his Church and so by his reckoning false matter To conclude this point What is false but that which hath an appearance of truth but not the truth it self whereof it makes shew in which respect the scriptures also speak of false Christs false Prophets false Apostles false brethren false witnesses false ballances and the like pretending themselves to be that which they are not and to have that truth in them which they have not of all which there is none more truely false nor more fitly so called then that man is and is called truely a false christian or false matter of the Church which 〈◊〉 in word he looks to be saved by Iesus Christ and yet continues in a lewd and wicked conversation having a shew of godlines but denying the power thereof and professing the knowledg of God but by works denying him Wherevpon I do also conclude that the body of the Church of England being gathered generally and for the most part of such members visibly cannot be the true visible body of Christ except a true living body can be compact of false and dead members That which comes next into consideration in Mâ— B order is the visible form of the Church as he calls it which he makes truely the vniting of vs vnto God one to another visibly in his 2. book the covenant by which Godsets vp a people to be his people and they him mutually to be their God This description he illustrateth by a similitude borrowed from a materiall building whose form ariseth from the coupling together of the stones vpon the foundatioÌ„ which he also further manifesteth by comparing it with the form of the invisible Church by which the faithfull are vnited to God through Christ invisibly and one vnto another Of the termes of which comparison and their proportion wee shall speak by and by I do onely in the mean while intreat the reader to observ with me these two things The former that Mr B having in the beginning of his book censured vs very severely and that with D. Allisons concurring testimony for misapplying 1 Pet. 2. 5. to the visible Church which sayd they was meant of the invisible Church here notwithstanding he interprets it of the visible Church even as we do The latter that speaking of the invisible Church and the form of it he brings in sundry scriptures as so to be expounded which are apparantly intended of the visible Church amongst the rest these three Ephe. 2. 22. and 4. 4. 1 Cor. 12. 13. the last of which he himself also within a few pages following expounds as meant of the visible Church and the properties thereof Now for the comparison betwixt the form of the invisible and visible Church wherein if Mr B. observed due proportion and made the form of the visible Church the same visibly externally in respect of men which he doth the form of the invisible Church invisibly internally and in respect of God and so layd down things in simple and playn terms the truth in the point would easily appeare much needles labour be spared on both sides The form of the invisible Church he noteth first and on Gods part to be raysed by the spirit by which invisible hand God taketh men immediately by the hart and sayth he wil be thâ—â—â— God 2. and on mans part by â—aith by which invisible hand the beleevers
and priviledges from without and my learning froÌ„ his distinctioÌ„ is that he vndertakes to teach others where he hath not yet learnt himself His errour then is in the too streyt acceptioÌ„ of the term property which he should take in a larger sense as Mr Smyth hath rightly taught him namely that whatsoever is proper vnto a person or thing whether within or without and not common to other things or persons with him or it that is a property or property of that person or thing And so since all the priviledges wherewith Christ hath endowed his Church are proper and peculiar vnto the Church and not common to her with the world it is most evident they are all of them the Churches properties and so to be accounted though she may for a tyme want the actuall vse of many of them And even those priviledges which your self bring for instances are true properties of the Church as to be called saynts faithful elect to suffer for Christ to be the ark to keep the books of the covenant to set to the seales to vse the keyes to open to shut heaven then which what can be more proper or peculiar vnto the Church And it is strange that sayntship and holynes grace to suffer for Christ and the like should not be accounted more naturall propertyes of the Church then a prophane profession of faith and vsurpation of some ordinances of religion by lewd and vngodly persons But towching the properties of the Church by you layd down my answer is that except your nationall Church be that true Israell of God which he hath admitted joyntly and severally into the covenant fellowship of grace salvation and to whom he hath given the promises of that covenant and to whom by his revealed will the seales and sacraments for the confirmation of those promises do apperteyn the more you meddle with this covenant by professing or publishing it the more you take Gods name in vayn and the more of the ordinances of God his covenant you vse and injoy the more you abuse vsurp the longer you continue in so doing the more dangerous is your estate the more to be bewayled And for the things themselves by which you would haue the Ch of Christ distinguished from all other assemblies they are such as may in the outward ceremony and observation of them without any sanctifyed vse which is the point in controversy between me and you both be performed and continued in eyther for feare or fashion by any accursed conventicle of atheists murderers adulterers or the like yea by a company of men and women excommunicated for these the like traÌ„sgressions And can these things which ly thus in comoÌ„ to all be the true properties of the Church 2. I must be bould to tell you Mr B. that the holding out of the truth sacraments are not so properly the displayed banners of your Church as is the observation of your popish ceremonies The surplise is a banner far broader displayed then the preaching of the gospel or ministration of the sacraments the crosse is a standard higher advanced then baptism so is kneeling then the Lords supper without thâ—se neyther the word may be preached nor the sacraments administred but where these banners are set vp and fayre borne there is that which is required will serve the turn though there be very litle truth held out eyther by preaching knowledge or obedience but the contrary Lastly where speaking of the marks and tokens of the true Ch you will the reader to observe well that they are not the word truely preached nor the sacrameÌ„ts rightly administred but the true word preached and the true sacraments administred I cannot but observe it well and in it both your errour and lightnes In your litle catechism printed 1602. you demaund this quaestion What are the marks of the true Church here on earth to which your answer is amongst some other things Christs word truely preached and his sacraments rightly administred But now in your Separatists schism not the word truely preached but the true word nor the sacraments rightly administred but the true sacraments are the infallible and convertible marks and tokens of the Ch in the iudgement of ill the divines at home and in all the reformed Churches in Christendome Now that which I observe hence is that Mr B. is one in his catechism where he labours with good conscience to instruct his people in the knowledge of God and another in his Invective headily begun and unconscionably prosequuted In the former he endeavoured with good conscience to lay down the grounds of Christian religion but now considering that the Christian grounds there layd will not beare the Antichristian confused building which he is to defend in his latter book he chuseth rather to rase his former Christian foundations and to lay new those contrary then to leave one stone of Babell vndawbed with his vntempered morter Now for the point it self let the reader obserue these few particulars First that rightly and truely in preaching and administration are by Mr B. very ignorantly restrayned to the holy graces of the Church for which right and lawfull persons by and to whom these administrations are to be made are required And are persons graces Mr Bernard 2. It is not true you affirm that all divines hould the true word and true sacraments though not truely nor rightly administred the infallible tokens of the Church I do not remember that ever I read this phrase the true word before in any wryters Such as write of these things are generally against you as you are against the truth Your own articles of religion condemn you which make it a property of the Church to haue the sacraments duely administred And since the word and sacraments are divine ordinances instituted by the Lord for certayn ends and purposes and determined to circumstances of persons as by to whom they must be administred it is necessary wee measure and defyne them by the manner of ministration otherwise wee make them but as the charmes of wizards or at the best as the prayers of Papists which they account true if so many words be sayd over by whomsoever or howsoever The word of God may be and oft times is in a great measure preached or published vpon a stage and what if the sacraments should be added to it were here a true Church marked out And as the word and sacraments may be sacrilegiously vsurped by them which are no Church of Christ nor haue any right at all vnto them so may the true Church of Christ be for a time without them though never without spirituall right vnto them as in the tyme of some great plague when the Church dare not assemble or of persequâ—tion when it is severed eyther by bonds or â—light It doth not then cease to be a Church no nor a visible Church neyther It remayns visible in it self though
live And for the parts of the body to which he here hath reference and the like they do more fitly resemble the officers of the Church then the ordinance of excoÌ„munication the eyes and mouth the Bishops and Elders which are to oversee and teach the Church the hands the Deacons who are to distribute her almes And aâ— there may be a true though an vnperfit naturall body without these parts so may there be a true visible Church or body of Christ without these officers though vnperfect and defective It now remayns I lay down some reasons to prove the power of the censures of excommunication simply necessary vnto the Church of Christ. The Reasons are First bycause it is simply necessary for the being of a Church that there be power for true members to joyn together and so to receive others vnto them even so consequently must there be power to disioyn and cut of false members 2. Excommunication and absolution are of the same nature with preaching the gospel yea the very same particularly applyed to persons obstinate and repentant which preaching is in the generall The preaching of the gospell is the power of God vnto salvation to every one that beleeveth excommunication is the power of the Lord Iesus Christ for the destruction of the flâ—sh of him that is otherwise incorrigible that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Iesus The preaching of the gospel makes the first or major proposition thus he that beleeves not and repents not is bound in heaven and hath his sinnâ— vnremitted but he that beleeves and repents his sinnâ— are pardoned and he loosed in heaven Now excommunication and absolution applyed to a particular person and occasion do make the second or minor proposition thus thou beleevest not or repentest not of this thy sinne and therefore thou art bound in heaven and thy sinnes vnpardoned and so of absolution or the loosing of sinns Adde also vnto these things that the same Bishops or Elders are to preach the gospel in way of doctrine and to minister the censures in way of discipline though in some divers order as I haue formerly shewed And these two being the two mayn duties of the Ministers comprehended vnder this generall duety of feeding the stock must needs be of the same nature both of them mayn and necessary parts of Gods vvorship and of religion and so to be performed vpon the Lords day as his work and in the assembly of the saynts as an exercise of their holy communion howsoever with you and others they are made a consistory and working day matter to the great violation and indignity of the kingdom of Christ in the dispensation of it in his Church 3. The want of excommunicating and censuring wicked men levens the whole lump and makes the whole particular congregation whereof they are accessary to their sinne and to purpose to continue in such a congregation or Church as hath not this power is to purpose to continue in disobedience to the commandement of the Lord Iesus which he hath layd vpon all his disciples to tell the Church in the order by him prescribed 4. Without the censures the Church becomes of Syon Babylon even the habitation of Divels and the hold of all â—owl spirits and a cage of every vnclean and hatefull byrd And so Mr B. in his forenamed catechisâ—â—â— teacheth that the holy and right vse of discipline and of excommunication serves to maintâ—yn the Church and to over throw haeresy that destroyes the foundation and other mischiefs And since haeresy destroyes the foundation as Mr B. teacheth and that there must be haeresies in the Church as Paul teacheth and that the Church cannot possibly be purged of them without excommunication that must needs be absolutely necessary to the Church without which the Church must absolutely necessarily come to naught To these I do adde as a fifth and last Reason that as the glorie of God salvation of them without are most furthered and advantaged by the holy conversation of the members of the Church and on the contrary most disadvantaged and hindered by their vnholy and prophane courses so is the power of excommunication by which solemn ordinance aloâ—e prophanenes impiety are rooted out of absolute necessity for the Churches of Christ. And of this point I desire the reader to take knowledge not onely as of a matter of truth but of conscience also and for practise That which Mr B reputes our nynth errour is our holding all their ministers false Ministers As I have formerly sayd of your Churches so say I here of your ministers that if one be false all are for all are of one constitution In deed Mr B if he might be let alone would save himself much labour this way by restreyning his defence to some few of the most able and conscionable men excluding the rest and therefore in his former book he speaks of such ministers as God hath furnished with gifts to discharge their functioÌ„ with holy graces a blamelesse lifâ— and in his 2. book he desires to be vnderstood of such as are sent of God and set over congregations according to the truth and true meaning of the lawes and book of ordination In which he doth directly exclude the Archbishops Bishops Suffragans Deanes Archdeacons Chauncelours Commissaries and with them all pluralists non-residents vnpreaching and prophane ministers For some of these are not set over congregations at all but over Provinces Diocesse others not in respect of their offices above named and others though they be set over particular Churches yet haue they neyther gifts nor graces for their function But as he were nothing faythfull vnto a city that vndertaking the defence of it should pâ—ck out here and there a corner most strong and defensible and fortify there leaving the body of the city to the invasion spoyl of any that would assault it so neyther is Mr B faythfull to the Ministery of England who pretending the defence of it against vs calls out here and there a man whom he will iustifie and leaves the body and all the principall members of it vndefended And here I would demaund of him why he doth not as well defend all the Ministers in this place as he did even now defend all the people or why a Minister so called though vnapt to teach and of a prophane life is not as well a true though a bad Minister as a Christian so called being ignorant and of a lewd conversation a a true though a bad Christian There is one and the same reason of both though Mr B have more reason for to plead the one then the other considering his own standing If he should plead for the ignorant and prophane Ministers he should deprive himself of all arguments for the justification of the preaching more conscionable sort for he rayseth them all as the
Bishops of God which have obteyned the principall order and office in your Church for a lesse principall work namely government and are preferred to the highest first place not for the teaching of their Dioseces Provinces which were impossible though they desired it but for ruling of them You say they are the successors of the Apostles but the cheif work of the Apostles Ministery was the preaching of the gospel not ruling much lesse Lording wherein your Bishops office standeth The order which the Apostle Paul hath left is that those Elders which labour in the word and doctrine should have speciall honour and aboue them which are imployed in ruling but this order Antichrist hath subverted as being a course not onely too base and laborious but even impossible for him to honour his Ministers by as he desired and hath effected hath procured not double treble but an hundred fold greater honour to be ascribed to ruling and government then to preaching And this is not the least part of that confusion wherein you stand and against which wee testify 2. If the office of Ministery consist principally in preaching how can your office of Ministery or order of Preisthood be of Christ which coÌ„sists not at all in preaching as I haue shewed but may stand without it by the Canons Lawes of your Church not requiring it necessarily as any essentiall property for the being but onely admitting of it as a convenient ornament for the well-being commending in deed the person that vseth it but no wayes justifying the office which requireth it not Yea most evident it is that the Ministery of the Church of England considering it not onely in the state cariage of things but specially in the civil and ecclesiasticall lawes wherein it is founded consists more principally in the wearing of a surplice then in the preaching of the gospel To conclude this point as the examination of such with you as are to be ordeyned by the Bishop and his Chaplayn is no triall of their gifts of knowledge zeal or vtterance or that they are apt to teach but a devise like the poseing of schoolboyes without eyther warrant fro the scriptures or good to the Church so the onely examination which the word of God approves of is that just and experimentall knowledge which the Church by wise observation is to take of the personall gifts and graces of such men as the Lord rayseth vp amongst them manifesting themselves in the publick exercises of the Church in their places as there is occasion though you Mr Bern. be bold to abuse 1 Tim. 3. 7. to the justification of your letters testimoniall vnto the Bishop which any vngodly person may procure from other persons as ill as himself and thereby may find acceptance with some Bishop or other as evill as eyther of both The Apostle Peter directing the disciples or Church about the choice or nomination of one to be chosen into the room of Iudas tels them they must think of such a man as had companyed with them all the tyme that the Lord Iesus was conversanâ— among them And the same Apostle together with the rest by the same spirit directs the Ch afterward to chuse from among themselves seven men iustly qualified to take vpon them the administratioÌ„ of the Church treasury And vpon the same ground it was that the Apostles Paul Barnabas did not streightway vpon the gathering of the Churches of the Gentiles ordeyn them officers but a good space after even when the people had made good proof and tryall of the gifts and faithfulnes of such men as by their free choice and election the Apostles ordeyned over them And whom doth it concern so nearely to make proof or to take observation of them that are to be called into office as them that are to call or chuse them and to commit their soules vnto them Of which election it followeth we consider in the next place And the first thing I purpose about it is to sum vp and set together a few of Mr B. sayings which like so many waves driven by contrary winds do dash theÌ„selves asunder one against another First then he affirmeth pag. 133. and 138. that the Church iâ— tâ— separate and câ—â—se 〈…〉 amongst others for Ministers such as are found fit in so saying what doth he but graunt that the Church is before the Ministers They that chuse must needs be before the that are chosâ—nâ— How them do the Ministers make the Church 2. In his 2. book he reproacheth Mr Smyth as an impudent gaâ—nsayer of the tâ—â—t for saying that the Church did elect Mathias Act. 1. where the Lord did make the châ—ise and yet in the same book pag. 295. 296. he graunts that such examples of practise were then in vse for the peoples chusing Ministers and quotes this very scripture with some others for that purpose 3. he affirmeth in his former book that the guides and governours of the Ch were to chuse the Officers alledgeth to that end Act. 14. 23. Neyther remembring what he had formerly written in the same book namely that the rest of the congregation were to chuse the principall to be their mouth and to stand for the whole Church nor yet caring what he was to write in his 2. book to wit that the people were to chuse their ministers for which he also bringeth the same scripture Act. 14. 23. If this man had been in Iohn Baptists place the Iewes might well haue answered Christ that they had gone out to see a reed shaken with the wind But to leave his contradictions of himself to come to his oppositions against the truth And first it is erroniousâ—y written by him and the scriptures Act. 13. 1. 2. 14. 23. sinfully perverted to the justification of his errour that by the Church which is to chose officers â—s meant the guids and governours thereof That which I haue formerly noted out of both his books espetially his quoting the latter of these scriptures for the peoples liberty in chusing their ministers doth give great cause of suspition that in this case he thus writes for his purpose against his conscience and is in deed condemned of himself And for the other place which is Act. 13. 1. 2. I may as justly yea much more reprove Mr B. for bringing it for the governours chusing of Paul and Barnabas as he Mr Smyth for bringing Act. 1. for the peoples chusing of Mathias For first Barnabas Saul were Apostles as well as Mathias and therefore not to be called to their office by man but by God Gal 1. 1. and so were of the Holy Ghost as immediately separated by name as was Mathias by lot 2. Mathias was at that time first called to the office of Apostleship which before he had not but Paul and Barnabas were Apostles long before and at that tyme designed
to repute them holy in regard of the Lordes covenaunt and do therefore set his seale vpon them so are their parents even from their cradle to bring them vp in instruction information of the Lord and so to prepare them for the publique ministery vnto which if they in their riper yeares give obedience in any measure they are so to be continued in the Church if other-otherwise they are in due time as vnprofitable branches to be lopped of and so cease to be of the Pastours charge Secondly for men falling into wickednes in the Church if they continue obstinate and irreclamable then are they in order to be consured and so the Pastour is discharged of them if on the contrary God vouchsafe them repentance this cannot be called a conversion of them to sanctification but a restoring or recovering of them out of some particular evill or evils into vvhich through infirmity they are falln So that the doctrine stands sound for any thing that Mr Bernard hath sayd or that eyther he or any other man can say that the Pastours office stands in feeding not in converting as also that Pauls scale and work was not the bare conversion of the Corinthians but their conversion from heathenism plantation into a Church and these with the signes of an Apostle even signes and wonders and great works 2 Cor. 12. 12. Lastly that the simple be not deceived and eyther give honour where it is not due or give it not where it is due let them consider that the conversion of a man is no way to be ascribed to the order or office eyther of Apostles or Pastours but onely to the word of God which by the inward work of the spirit is the power of God to salvation to them that beleeve it is the law of the Lord that converts the soule The word of the kingdome is that good seed which being sown in good ground prospereth to the bringing forth of fruit to life whether he that sow it be in a true office or in a false office or in no office at all And though it be true which Mr B. saith in his former book that the Ministers in England do preach as publik Officers of that Church yet doth their Office confer or help nothing at all to the conversion of men It is the blessing of God vpon the mayn truthes they teach not vpon their office of Preisthood which converts which truthes if they taught without their office eyther before they were called to it or being deprived of it would without doubt be as effectuall as they are yea much more by the blessing of God as appears in this that such amoÌ„gst them as make least account of their office formally received from the Prelates are the most profitable instruments amongst the people where on the contrary the professed formalists cleaving vnto their office and order canonically are generally vnprofitable eyther for the conversion or confirmation of any to or in holines To conclude then the turning of men vnto holynes of life is no iustification of your office of ministery or calling vnto it but of such truthes as are taught amongst you which all men are bound to hold and honour as we also do though we disclaym the order and power in and by which they are ministred The seventh and last argument Mr B. takes from certayn properties of true sheepheards layd down Ioh. 10. which he also affirmeth the Ministers of the Church of England have the first whereof is that they go in by the dore Iesus Christ that is by his call and the Churches which as he sayth he hath proved at large In so saying he speaks at large let him prove that the Bishop or Patron or eyther of them is in Christs place set by him to chuse Ministers or that they are the Church to which he hath committed the power of calling and choosing them and answer the Reasons brought to the contrary otherwise his large proving will appeare but a large boasting and he will give men occasion to remember the proverb It is good beating a proud man The 2. property wherewith he investeth them is that the porter openeth vnto them by which porter Mr Smith means the Church for which Mr B reviles him out of measure making the porter invisibly Gods spirit visibly the authority committed by the Church vnto some for admitting men into the house the Church of God which sayth he is a sensible exposition according to the custome with us and in Iudaea As there are many true ministers in respect of men which enter not in at all by the spirit of God or any motion of it as it was with Iudas is with all hypocrites who for by-respects take that calling vppon them so is Mr Smithes exposition making the Church the porter far more probable then yours who make the porter the authority of the Church coÌ„mitted to some for the admission of men Is not the porter a person rather then a thing And who that hath but common sense will not rather by the porter vnderstand the person or persons having authority then the authority which he or they have And if you Mr B. had but remembred what you write of the properties of the Church pag. 237. 138. making as here you do the porter or authority of the Church a property of a sheepheard you would I suppose in modesty have forborn the charging of Mr Smith to have his braynes intoxiâ—ated by his new wayes to be madded by his own fantasies in religion for wryting in this poynt as he doth And for the thing it self it is evident that Christ Iesus is properly the sheepheard of the sheep here spoken of and that therefore the authority of the Church can be no porter for hi enterance or admission I do therefore rather think that by the porter is meant God the father whose care and providence is ever over his flock who therefore hath called and appoynted his sonne Iesus Christ to be that good sheepheard who gave his life for his sheep And if you will apply this to ordinary Pastours and their calling then sure by the porter must be meant such as have received this liberty power from Christ by the hands of his Apostles for the chusing and appoynting of ministers which I am sure of all others are not the Romish or English Bishops Christ would never have the wolves to appoynt his sheep their sheepheards The 3. property of good sheepheards which you chalenge to your selves is that they call their own sheep by name that is they take notice of their people of their growth in religion â—â—d do abyde with them diligently watching over their flockes as by true and faithfull promise made in the open congregation they be bound in their ordination It must here be observed as before that Christ speaks onely of himself properly for of him onely it can be sayd that the
and brethren with them are one the same publique body to be exercised in one and the same part of their publique communion and to make the officers publick persons and the brethren private in the cōmunion is to make a schisme in the Church and to make the brethren part of the cōmunion in the administration of the word sacraments prayer singing of Psalmes contribution calling of officers censuring of offenders or other Church action whatsoever private and the officers publik is to make it schismatical them in it schismatiks Thus much of the 9. errour objected The tenth foloweth which is that we say Their worship is a false worship For answer vnto this assertion Mr B refers vs to the end of this treatise and there then will wee attend for it yet somewhat will he say against it that is First that they worship no false God 2. that they worship the true God with no false worship We charge you not with the worship of any false God though wee shall see by by how in one particular you will defend your selves But the thing you should have endeavoured is to prove that your divine-service-book framed by man and by man imposed to be vsed without addition or alteration as the solemn worship of your Church is that true and spirituall manner of worshiping God which he hath appointed with which he will be worshiped in spirit trueth Of this you say little or nothing but bycause you seem to your self to say somewhat wee will see what it is The word you say preached is the true word the sacraments true sacraments the prayers we pray whether conceived or set and stinted are such as may be warranted by the word and agreable to the prescript form taught by our saviour Christ. The word preached in popery or in the most haereticall assembly in the world is the true word but the devises of men are not the true word eyther with you or them Yea the divels thēselues preached the true word when they affirmed and published that Iesus was that Christ the sonne of God the most High did they therefore perform vnto God true worship Of the sacraments I have spokē formerly have shewed that in the administration of them they cannot be reputed true It is the word of promise that makes the sacraments except then the parish assemblies joyntly considered in their members have right unto the spirituall promises of God the sacraments administred in and vnto them in that their estate cannot so be accounted true sacraments For your prayers I observe sundry things out of your own words which I may not passe over as first that you speak not properly no nor truely in saying you pray stinted prayers for you read them and who will say reading is praying you pray to God but will you say you read to God or if you so say and do is it agreable eyther to his ordinance or to cōmon reason Mistake me not as though I speak of inward prayer or of the lifting vp of the hart for I graunt a man may pray inwardly or lift vp the heart to God when he reads or preaches or sings or receives the sacraments of such prayer we neyther speak nor can discern but in our selves our speach then being of the outward act ordinance of prayer I do affirm and so marvayl if all reasonable men concurre not with me that the ordinance of reading cannot be the ordinance of praying 3. In your division of prayer wherin you make some conceived and some set and stinted you graunt that the prayers which are set and stinted are not conceived wherein you do as much as graunt that they are not of God nor according to his will The Apostle Iude directeth vs alwayes to pray in the holy Ghost and Paul teacheth that we cannot pray as we ought but as the spirit helpeth vs and begetteth in vs sighs vnutterable by the work of which spirit if our prayers be not conceived first in our hearts before they be brought forth in our lips they are an vnnaturall bastardly and prophane byrth Lastly if your stinted prayer be as you say agreable to the prescript forme of prayer taught by our saviour Christ then must none other form of prayer be vsed but a stinted or set form for none other form may be vsd but that which is agreable to the prescript form of Christ since Christ hath sayd after this manner pray Where you further add that nothing is imposed or done by you for the worship of God but the word read and preached and the sacraments and prayer I demaund of your first in worship or honour of whō are your holy dayes bearing the names of S. Michaels S. Peters S. Iohns day and the rest imposed and kept if in the honour of the Saynts Angels then are you not cleare as you make your selves from the worshipping of false Gods neyther can you exempt your selves from the number of them which in voluntary religion worship Angels if on the other side those dayes be appoynted and so kept holy in the worship and honour of God then do you and that by authority worship God by and put holines in other things then the word read preached and the sacraments and prayer yea and other things then ever came into the Lords heart to sanctify for his worship And so the place Math. 15. 9. and other scriptures to that purpose are truely though you say falsely alledged against you 2. I do demaund of you whether your Apocrypha books namely that which is placed betwixt both testaments causing the Iewes to think the new testament no better then the fables which are ioyned to it as a learned man of our nation hath observed and the other book of Homilies be enjoyned and vsed as parts of Gods worship It is evident they are so held And therefore it is that a great portion of the former is preferred in the most solemn assemblyes before the canonicall scriptures and the reading of them before the reading of the other which they justle out of their place And for the homilyes they are enioyned and so vsed in stead of the preaching of the word which is the principall part of Gods worship wherevpon it followeth that the Apocrypha wrytings of mē being preferred before one part of Gods worship which is the reading of the Canonicall scriptures and vsed in stead of an other part of Gods worship yea and that the principall part as is preaching are imposed and so vsed as partes of Gods worship So that it is not without good cause M Ber that M Ainsworth bids you prove the Apocrypha scriptures and books of Homilies the true word of God Nothing you tel vs is imposed and vsed amongst you for the worship of God but the true word of God read and preached and the sacraments and prayer now these being imposed and vsed for the