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A35520 This is an answer to John Wiggans book, spread up and down in Lancashire, Cheshire and Wales, who is a baptist & a monarchy-man wherein may be seen how he exalts himself, against Christ the light, that doth enlighten every man : and also some of his, and his peoples erronious principles, and assertions, which he and his people held in a dispute, with some Quakers ... / from the prisoners at Lancaster, whom he then opposed being then a prisoner, Thomas Curwen, William Houlden, Henery Wood, William VVilson ; also here is an answer to his appendix annexed to the book by Margaret Fell. Curwen, Thomas.; Fox, Margaret Askew Fell, 1614-1702. 1665 (1665) Wing C7703; ESTC R40138 135,639 157

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John who saw they was come said the Saints had the Anointing within them to teach them and they needed not any man to teach them but as the Anointing teacheth them and the Apostles brought them to the Light within them and the Law within them and Christ bid them not to follow the false Prophets but he would dwell in them and his spirit should lead them into all truth Joh. 14. and 2 Cor. 4. Heb. 8. 1. And whereas thou saist We have cryed against the Priests and Teachers as Hirelings and deceivers coveteus scandalous c. and their Hearers as ignorant superstitious formal and that every charge hath much of truth in it Ans Here thou art made to confess something to the Truth as the Devil did to the Son of God and hath judged thy self too for thou was one that we cryed against at Manchester and our testimony stands against thee as it did who professes what thou art not dost thou not remember Elizabeth Hulme John Abraham James Harrison and what a rage and madness thou was in when they came to thee to declare the things of God and how thou lift up thy Fist of wickedness against John Abraham and could not hold thy violent hands and the guilt in you all have answered our testimony and thou yet was never able to stand to truths face nor answer the truth if thou had thou would have answered the Queries e're now And we are not of them which cries loe here is Christ or loe there is Christ but as the Apostle saith Col. 1. 27 28. Christ in you the hope of Glory whom we preach warning every man and teaching every man that we might present every man perfect in Christ Jesus and Christ was not like to be found amongst you when you denyed the Light and they that were innocent that had received the Light quickly saw you and this Light hath and will stop all your mouthes that denies it and the Light is not a shew but the substance And thou would seem to hide thy self from the carnal proud professors as if thou wert not of them but they that knows thee knows what thou hast been and what thou art yet and all thy Congregations which thou hast gathered where hast thou left them now so that which thou who denies the Light hath been doing is but to beat the Air. And all that were sober and feared God seeing you persecuting us and reviling against the Light and against the Spirit and what unchristian actions they used against us was a cause through quiring into truth to cause them to forsake you who denyed the Light of Jesus who broke into confusion amongst your selves and biting at truth and biting at one another till you were consumed one of another And so the good meaning people that did not make Godliness a game as you did imbraced the Light of Jesus and came into the fellowship of the Light and the Gospel which is the power of God Rom. 1. And whereas thou saist The well meaning people easily fell into their Net to do homage to their new God in the mean while the ignorant rash Priests and people who dealt with them lost themselves and injured the truth and gave this people ground to glory over them Ans If the well meaning people fell to us then the ill meaning people staid with you and this manifests you are fallen from truth when the well meaning forsook you And whereas thou saist they did homage to their new God Nay it s that God and Christ which 〈◊〉 ever was and will be whom you for sook and denyed as thou denies still and mocked with your words like them that opposed the Apostles and called it a new Doctrine a setter forth of strange Gods Acts and so you did injure the truth as thou dost now and it is Christs Net which they were catched in which kept the good and threw out the bad according to thy own Words and as you have injured the truth so hath God brought his judgments upon you and thou hath given us as much cause to glory over thee as ever any did but our glorying was and is in the Lord God and his Son Jesus Christ who hath dearly bought us with his Blood and thou that denies the Light crucifies Christ afresh and puts him to open shame And whereas thou saist the right course to deal with us is to distinguish between good and evil Ans This thou hast not done as is manifest in thy Book but like one of the false Prophets who follows thy own spirit and sees nothing but puts darkness for light and light for darkness and thou hast manifested thy unrighteous dealing to us in all thy Book and thou dost not own the good nor imbrace it nor cherish it how canst thou when thou denies the Light of Christ for that which doth make manifest and reproves is light and all things is manifest by the Light and this Light thou hatest and chofest the darkness Ephesians 5. and loves it more then the Light John 3. And whereas thou saist Thou will joyne issue with us to bear witness against hireling Priests against Tythes against superstitious carnal Worship against swearing against corrupt worldly customes herein joyne with them are they at least in shew for the power of Godliness as well as the forme for worshipping in spirit and truth for justice for Righteousness sobriety mercy gravity and whatsoever is excellent in life and conversation so am I yea whatsoever they can make appear to be evil that I would east off with as much indignation as they and what further good they can shew that I have not learned that would I gladly imbrace Ans When did John Wiggan bear Testimony against Hireling Priests and Tyth-takers should not John Wiggan had Tythes at Manchester to make up his Wages and was not he a Priest at his Chappels where he put off his dark Ware denying the Light of Christ and now when John hath lost his Chappels he will cry against them and their formality now when he cannot get them Oh subtilty but would he cry against them if he had 100. or 200 l. a Year given him nay would he not bless them for it and how can thou worship God in spirit truth who denies Christ the Light spirit of God to be in every man Thou art a false Worshipper thy Worship is false the Lord moved us to cry against thee and that in thy high dayes and must thou talk of crying against corrupt Customs and be in them thy self for thy evil words hath corrupted thy manners and thou art not for the power of Godliness and thou art far from the modesty gravity or justice or righteousness thy language bewrayes thee as thy lyes and slanders with mocking scoffing reproachful words and thy sawey language to Friends and especially to Margaret Fells which shames both Learning and Breeding and that most excellent thing in life and conversation thou hast
the pure Light of Christ which is saving which enlightens every man and for thy saying there will be but little truth found in saying thou taught thy way to others and it will be hard for me to prove or any of my friends thou hast proved it thy self and I have proved it sufficiently here before and also it was proved in the dispute but that thou art more minded to cavil then obey the truth and it s no matter of thee saying my words are improper when thou wilt not believe plain Scripture when as thou bids me tell thee where the Apostle said some preached the way the truth and the life and yet knew him not such as professed him in words and denyed him in life such as the Apostle calls evil doers evil beasts and slow bellies and teaches for filthy lukre as thou hast done who is a sayer and not a doer and such as preacht Christ of envy as thou dost and added afflictions to the Apostles bonds those knew not Christ the way and the life neither was in it for they were in the envy and strife as thou art and those are unlike to know him though they may preach him in words for envy blinded them as it hath done thee Philip. 1. 15. but did not those false Apostles deceitfull workers transforming themselves into the Apostles of Christ preach Christ in words as thou doest how could they have gone about to deceive the Saints which believed in Christ and were they not despisers of the Apostles and Ministers of Christ as thou art nay did they not boast that they were Ministers of Christ as thou doest and denyed his life as thou doest 2 Corinth 11. from the 13. to the 23. and did not Christ speak of such who preached in his name and in his name cast out Devils and I do not believe that ever thou came to see so far as these did and yet he said depart from me ye workers of iniquity and the false Prophets in the 24. of Matthew who said loe here is Christ and loe there these was Preachers of Christ in words under a pretence to bring them to a false Christ and Christ said go not forth after them for he would come and dwell in them and this thou cannot abide to hear spoken on of Christ being in men a saving Light and dost thou not know that many has a form of Godliness Tit. 3. 4. and what form is that is it not the Scriptures that speaks of God and Christ and denies the power wherein I feel thee to be one who are to be turned away from who withstand the truth and many of thy Hearers turned away from thee whom thou led away Captive And what wise man cansay I have wronged the Apostles words in this for I have not wronged the Apostles words but thou wrongest me and thou dost not preach the Love of Christ who denies the Light Christ to be saving that enlightens all men and Christ is the way the Truth and the Life who ever preach him or for what ever end they preach him for and we set up the Christ Jesus the Apostles preached and set up the Light of the World which the Prophets prophesied of but thou preachest another as was said before who denies his Light to be a saving Light in all men though some men neglect their Salvation as thou may read in the Scriptures and we have the same Gospel the Apostles had and preached to wit the power of God which I do believe thou was never yet in for if thou had thou would not have changed so and have left thy people for what hast thou left that Christ thou preached to the Independants or hast thou restored the Money which thou got amongst them so confess the truth for I never changed since I knew the Truth the same Christ the Apostles preacht and the true Religion I believe thou hath to seek it who denies the Light and so in meekness and fear I declare to thee we own no other Christ Jesus then the Apostles preacht and set up and this Christ Jesus I am not ashamed to confess before all who is the Light that enlightens all men that comes into the World who is the Salvation to the ends of the Earth who tasted death for every man and this is Gods Love to Mankind And whereas thou sayest thou will not answer my Queries nor satisfie me nor any Querist in this thou hast manifested thy self and spirit what it is and hast denyed a Christian Spirit who should be ready to give an answet to any that asked them a reason of the hope that was in them and my questions tends to edification and not to strife and confessing the working of God in their hearts and what they past thorow and the acquaintance with God hearing and seeing of him and things concerning Salvation and Scripture words that declares of the same and this is not edification to thee and yet thou contradicts thy self and sayest thou would give a reason of the hope that is in thee and yet doth not answer my Queries concerning-Christ the hope and other workings of the Spirit of God Truly John this manifests thy emptyness and shallowness of the things of God and that which concernes mans Salvation And thou sayest thou hast in readiness to answer in love those Queries was in Love sent to thee but this is but a shift and a boast for if thou hadst not answered them in love to us who thou accounts thy enemies though thou hast called us thy friends thou might have answered them for their sakes thou sent thy Book too if thou hadst no love to enemies John Wiggan thou sayest that the Light wherewith every man is lighted that comes into the World is not a saving Light and this thou say'st thou shalt thorough the strength of Christ be ready to maintain against me or any of my friends who hold the contrary when and where a meeting may be had in a peaceable and quiet way before competent Witnesses Answ Thee and all thy Witnesses at the meeting by all your opposing the Scriptures and us that stood for them could not make good that Christ was not the saving Light that enlightens every man that comes into the World though yee broke out into a rage and broke your own order which was that none should speak while another was speaking and thou was the first man that brake it both when G. F. and W. W. was speaking and neither love or humility proceeded from thee but abundance of pride rage and envy when thou was plung'd and could not make good what thou hadst asserted which was contrary to Christ and the Prophets as in Esaiah and John the 1. 8 12. And that which moved me to stick the Paper on the Door proceeded from the Holy Spirit which hath caused thee to vent forth so much against the Light of Christ and hath brought that forth which hath been so long hid in thy heart
principles are according to the old errors thou speaks of But thou saist thou hast done with our Principles thou needs not enlarge upon our Hay Wood and Stubble being assured the removing of our Foundation which thou saist thou hast done will bring down our whole building Ans We are Gods building 1 Cor. 3. And we have a building of God Ephes 2 and Christ is our Foundation which remains and stands sure 2 Tim. And we are built upon the Foundation of the Prophets and Apostles Christ himself being the head Corner stone the Lord hath laid our foundation and no other foundation can any man lay 1 Cor. 3. 11 12. Zach. 8. 12. Eph. 2. 2. Tim. 2. And as for hay wood and stuble it is thy own and will be burnt up who has denyed Christ the Light the foundation and called him a natural and created Light and Idol but thy foundation and building is down together it 's hard to know where it stood And where are all your Builders and Daubers and now after all thy slanders and raylings thou wouldst make people believe thou lovest our persons And when thou hast uttered all thy lyes and malice thou in hypocrisie and feigned humility would make people believe thou pittiest us But we know what thy pitty is But we are come to the true Jesus who takes pity of our souls though thou long deceived many of us I believe that few people would hardly have believed that there had been so much poison venom in thee thou hast denyed Christ the Light the way truth life calls him natural and created and so art in the error thou speaks of and thy bowels is the belly of Hell Jonah 2. And what hast thou to do to take the Lords name in thy mouth and hates to be reformed But thou art one of them that uses thy Tongue saying Thus saith the Lord when he never spoke to thee Jeremiah 23 Thou saist Thou hast born thy Testimony against us in that which appears in us against the mystery of Christ crucified Ans Christ Jesus which was crucified which thou slanderously saist we deny but him we own it is thou that denies him to be crucified in denying his Light for we preach Christ crucified 1 Cor 1. 23 2. Cor. 2. And him that the Jews crucified who were in the same envious Spirit with thee against the light Jo. 1. Mat. 20. 19. and Mark 15. 13. Luk. 23. 23. Rev. 11. 8. we are crucified with Christ Gall. 2. 20. And if thou hadst written fewer errors it had been better for thee but praised be the Lord God thy deeds are brought to light and this is a poor shift for thee to come off so after thou hast laid down thy assertions and cannot maintain them nor canst not make them good for our questions was learned questions and tended not to strife and yet stands on thy head unanswered and thou and all which thou hast declared hath been against God and Christ so that thou art one that bears false witness against him not for him And thou hast manifested the error of thy judgment for thy understanding is error Psal 19. Mat. 22. 22. 1 Tim. 6. 10. and that which thou hast done hath been against Christ the Foundation of the Prophets and Apostles and thy Commendation of us is reviling and slandering for it is manifest thou hast a double tongue unbridled Jam. 1. Tim. 3. 8. and with thy tongue thou thinks to prevail Psal 12. but a lying tongue Prov. 12. 19. is but for a moment and he that uses slanders is a fool Prov. 10. 18. but we cannot walk with slanderers Jer. 6. 20. And thou saist Our principle hath had its growth and advantage from these means from the pride covetousness formality idleness and cruelty corrupt oustomes Idolatry superstition of Parish Priests and the generality of their Hearers Ans And John Wiggan Trencher Chaplain shall be put in amongst them And thus when you were in your wickedness as thou speaks of before and mocked God with your Religion as the end of it hath manifested it self God hath overturned it and stained your glory and your pride which went before your destruction Prov. 16. 18. then the Lord had compassion upon us in your day when no eye pittied us and revealed his Son in us who is our Shepherd and leader and Salvation Ezekiel And thou with the rest Railed against us in your idleness and pride and carnality and who was mader against Truth then your separated Congregations in railing against the Light and Spiritual Teaching and who were taught of God and Christ and followed him and would not follow your pernitious wayes and when we prophesied to you of your down-fall both in your Towns and Cities and Army you abused us prisoned us and persecuted us though all the things is come to pass upon you which we then spoke and yet thou in thy envy and malice art railing against the Truth the Light Christ that it should spread but thou had rather the evils before mentioned should spread Idleness and Pride c. And our Testimony was born against your pride and hypocrisie in the truth and spirit and power of Jesus against all your false Worships and Churches and Teachers which God hath thrown down according to our Testimony and you were found treacherous to your own Principles in all things for we faithfully bearing our Testimony for the Lord God to you as he gave to us and for standing faithful to him we were prisoned and had our Goods spoyled by you and now you are murmurers against us because truth stands and your foundation is fallen to the ground and thou wickedly termes the true Christ who is Light to be Antichrist And whereas thou saist Antichrist doth never oppose Christ more then when he appears in a mystery when he comes in the name of Christ and pretends to be all for Christ reproving much that is evil and pleading for many commendable things thus our Saviour tells us many false Christs shall arise Mathew 24. 24. in Sheeps cloathing Mathew 7. 15. in so much that if it were possible they should deceive the very Elect. Ans This is directly thy own condition who appears in a mystery to oppose Christ the Light but we cannot say of many commendable things thou hast done or sins reproved and neither Mat. 24. nor Mat. 7. saith that Antichrist shall do many commendable things or reprove sins for that which reproves sin is the spirit which Antichrist is gone from Christ said Antichrist and false Prophets should come to the Disciples and John saw they were come 1 John 2. and they went forth from them into the World and as in the Revelations the whole World went after them and they inwardly ravened from the Spirit and so keeps people from the Spirit and Light within them as thou dost and these have the Scriptures the Sheeps Cloathing and if it were possible would deceive the very Elect but