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Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
truth_n	ancient_a	church_n	true_a	2,421	5	5.1957	4	true

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A91478	Susanna's apologie against the elders. Or A vindication of Susanna Parr; one of those two women lately excommunicated by Mr Lewis Stycley, and his church in Exeter. / Composed and published by her selfe, for the clearing of her own innocency, and the satisfaction of all others, who desire to know the true reason of their so rigorous proceedings against her.	Parr, Susanna.	1659 (1659)	Wing P551; Thomason E1784_2; ESTC R209665	59,393	127

my letter I believed to be truth neither have I reason to think the contrary if it were as Mr Stucley sayth More then three would have been able to witnesse it 't is true he being an ancient non conformist and very sensible of the evils under which the Church of God did formerly groane I had a good esteeme of him but that I laboured to have him Pastor will never I believe be clearly proved yea two or three of the chiefest of them did witnesse in the meeting that they never heard mee speake for him Jnstance 5. She affirmed that she never profitted by Mr Stonehams preachings and never approved his Ministry the contrary hereunto was witnessed by three persons Resol What I affirmed concerning Mr Stoneham was in a letter in these words viz. As for M. Stonehams preachings J have had little benefit by it but J have imputed it to my owne dulnesse in hearing and did hope that when J was better acquainted with his method in teaching J should profit more by it they that vvitnesse other then this vvitnesse a lie Jnstance 6. Shee denyeth in a letter That shee suspected those that had Kindred and Relations among the Presbyterians whereas many vvitnessed the contrary Resol 1. If the contrary vvere true then I must have suspected my selfe having Kindred and acquaintance that vvere Presbyterians vvith whō I had daily societie intimate communion and vvhom I did highly honour for the image of God shining in them though our judgments differed 2ly Let them shew me the persons vvhom I suspected and I vvill shew other grounds of my suspicion 3ly They themselves questioned me for my affections to those of different judgements even Presbyterians and therefore I cannot but vvonder that they should dare to charge mee vvith this This may I hope suffice vvith all judicious and impartiall Readers for the vviping off that filth vvhich they flung after mee at my leaving them in reference to lying one of those three generalls to vvhich he reduced the ground of my Suspension the other two are contentiousnesse and censoriousnesse so he is pleased to miscall Love and Faithfulnesse Contention The first of these Contention he saith pag. 41. in his Answer to Mr Toby Allen vvas proved by many vvitnesses in six particulars Ans As to this I ansvver that I vvas cleared by the vvhole Church of this Impeachment as in my narrative vvhich all of them can vvitnesse if they vvill since that time none of them ever undertook to prove it to my face I was so far from delighting in Contention as that I complained of it to Mr. Stucley severall times and also in a letter I told him plainly that I was not able to live in the fire of Contention nor sit down under a ministry that I could not profit by and therefore I should willingly withdraw from them which I did accordingly for this and other reasons therefore he hath little reason to accuse me of Contention But he saith it was proved in these particulars Instance 1. In very many if not in most of those debates which have been in the Church since our first coming together she hath been usually silent untill the Church have been ready to come to some determination or had determined and then she would object against what she perceived was the Judgment of the Church and pursued it with much violence This the generality of the then Church witnessed Sol. 1. Was I silent till the last why may not Elihu's Apologie be mine Job 32.4 5 10 11 12. 2 My Assent was required to their determinations and therefore it was very fit I should know what ground there was for them especially considering that the then Church-members the generality of them were novices in Christianity and very weak in the first principles so unacquainted with the Rule as that they knew not how to behave themselves in the Church of God knew not how to direct either themselves or others in matters of faith or order without instructions from abroad yea we vvere then in a bevvildred condition without officers and some of the ordinances and professed our selves to be a people that had lost our way and that vvere seekers of the way to Syon 3 As for my pursuing it vvith much violence I knovv not vvhat he meanes unlesse it be that I refused to be satisfied vvith their determinations vvhen they gave me no sufficient ground for them Instance 2. Secondly vvhen it vvas moved in the Church to this effect That it vvas very necessary to have respect in our admission of Church members to union in Judgment at least in all the ordinances of Christ that peace and love in the Church might be preserved she did eagerly contend against this motion and occasioned long and sad disputes betvveen the Church and her selfe especially concerning singing of Psalmes the practice of vvhich she absolutely denied and declared That praises and thanksgivings unto God in prayer were only that singing which the Scripture requireth This also the generality of the then Church members did vvitnesse Sol. 1. Mr. Stucley vvas not present at this meeting 2. Those vvho made this motion vvere some of them very vveak and erronious in their Judgment 3. When this motion vvas made vve were without some of the ordinances and so continued for some yeares after this And they who made this motion were of a very indifferent Spirit as to the procureing them untill they had setled themselves in publique offices This was such a burden unto mee as that I was very much dissatisfied when as they who needed some to enforme their Iudgments who made so litle Reckoning of the ordinances should yet be so forward after union in Iudgment I conceived the worke we had to doe was to free our selves from that Confusion in which we were by getting officers and ordinances 4. As to Singing of Psalmes It 's true I did at that time question it which doth administer matter of daily humiliation unto me to consider and remember the darknes of my minde that hath and continually doth cause mee to wander from the way of the lord to the right hand and to the left But yet Mr Stucley hath litle Reason to Charge me with it for 1. He was the first that unsetled mee as to this practise by Speaking against it himselfe 2. Some of his members have spoken more slightingly of this ordinance then ever I did in affirming that one who was possessed of the divell would singe Psalmes that they who sunge Psalmes sunge lyes c. 3. The generality of the People that were for seperation every where Scrupled Singing as to the matter manner place or time So that it was a vaine thing at such a time to Expect vnion as to this ordinance much more to presse it so eagerly as to make it a necessary qualification of Church member ship when as the Apostle sayth Him that is weake in the faith receiue you but not to doubtfull disputations whereupon I

the power and priviledge to passe sentence for life and death within themselves and yet are accountable to the State they live in Pag. 16. An instance they give of their owne practice in a businesse of this nature of Excommunication wherewith some Churches were offended In this Case our Churches did mutually and universally acknowledge and submit to this as a Sacred and undoubted Principle and supreme Law to be observed among all Churches That as by vertue of that Apostolicall Command Churches as well as particular men are bound to give no offence neither to Jew or Gentile nor the Churches of God they live amongst so that in all cases of such offences or difference by the obligation of the common law of Communion of Churches and for the vindication of the glory of Christ which in common they hold forth the Church or Churches challenged to offend or differ are to submit themselves upon the challenge of the offence or complaint of the person wronged to the most full and open triall and examination by other neighbour churches offended thereat of what ever hath given the offence And farther that by vertue of the same and like law of not partaking of other mens sins the Churches offended may ought upon the Impenitency of those Churches persisting in their error and miscarriage to pronounce that heavy sentence against them of withdrawing and renouncing all Christian Communion with them untill they do repent And farther to declare and protest this with the causes thereof to all other Churches of Christ that they might do the like Pag. 21. It was openly and publiquely professed in a speech that was the Preface to that discussion to this effect That it was the most abhorred Maxime that any Religion hath ever made Profession of and therefore of all other the most contradictory and dishonourable unto that of Christianity That a single and particular Society within themselves should farther arrogate unto themselves an Exemption from giveing account or being Censureable by any other either Christian magistrate above them or neighbour Churches about them So farr say they were our Iudgements from that Independent liberty that is imputed to us So Mr Borroughs heart division p. 43. where he sayes Those in the Congregationall way acknowledge that they are bound in conscience to give account of their wayes to the Churches about them or to any other who shall require it this not in an Arbitrary way but as a duty they owe to God and man Reader here you see how wide and dissonant the judgements of those more learned of the Congregationall way are from the practice and proceedings of Mr Stucley his Church Those of that way acknowledging but hee denying submission to any examination or triall by neighbour Churches and hee and his Church claiming an Independent power or liberty to give no account or be subject to no others though accused and challenged for erring grosly in point of their Arbitrary unjust proceedings against us which is plainly manifested in Master Allen's booke called Truths manifest revived and will farther appeare in my ensuing Vindication to which I hasten This being to my best remembrance a true Relation of what passed between us untill the Excommunication THE VINDICATION BY that which hath been said in my Narrative it is manifest that I was never questioned much lesse admonished for lying untill my coming off from them that they never accounted me whiles I was with them such a vile person as now by their slanderous pamphlets they endeavour to make the world believe me to be and here I cannot but wonder at Mr Mall that he being a stranger to me and altogether ignorant of my manner of life and conversation should yet be so rash and inconsiderate as meerly upon reports to defame me in Print for which he is bound in conscience as he is a Minister if he be one a Christian yea as he is a man to give the Church of God mee and the world satisfaction The Notes saith he in his Epistle to the Reader of Mr Stucleys Sermon I am glad I took in short hand from his mouth or otherwise thou mightest never have seen a true Copy of them Surely if the Copy do agree with the Originall which some question I shall be so bold to affirme of both that they exceedingly disagree with the Truth in laying those Crimes to my charge which they are never able to prove as will sufficiently I beleive appeare in these my following Answers to their Severall Articles I shall begin with that of lying it being that which my accuser begins and almost ends with which he in many places of his book mentions with a great deale of pretended zeale and indignation which he indeavours to equall with the sin of Incest which he saith is a fault detestable to the very heathens Some of them this is the Cryme which he and his party especially charge me with both in Citie and Country crying out every where I am a lyar yea an egregious one and therefore justly Excommunicated This is in fine the Article on which the whole charge depends Before I come to the Charge it selfe in particular I shall crave leave to speake something in the generall concerning the apprehension I have of this Sin as also somewhat concerning Master Stucleys practice in reference unto it whereby it will be evident both how improbable it is that I should be such an Egregious lyer as hee hath made mee in his booke and also how unlikely it is that hee should be so zealously affected against lying as he therein pretends For the first of these Lying is that Sin which my Parents from time to time so represented unto me in the severall aggravations and deformities thereof as that I alwaies since I came to yeares of discretion abhorred and detested it both in my selfe and others I account a lyar unfit not onely for Christian Communion but also civill Commerce From the word and my own sadd experience I finde it to be an hereditary evill in all the sons and daughters of Adam That the heart is deceitfull and desperately wicked above all things who can know it That there is a way of lying in the best of men by nature in this sense let God be true and every man a lyer The guile deceipt falshood and hypocrisy which is in the heart is that which is a chiefe part and member of the bodie of death and that which makes it out of measure sinfull and an intollerable burthen to be borne As to the practice of this sin I do believe that it is not consistent with the worke of grace That he which lives in the practice thereof is not a member of Christ but a limbe of the divell it is so contrary to the God of truth so contrarie unto Christ who is the Truth and so contrarie unto the Spirit of Truth and so contrary unto the work of Regeneration as I cannot believe that such a soule as lives in