we faithfully râ—ceiuing the visible and externall signes according to Christ his institution in remembraunce of his death and passion spirituaâ—ly doe feed vpon the body of Christ aâ—â— receiue the fruites of his death euen remission of our sinnes Other sacramentes we haue no warrant for in the worde of god These sacramentes were onely vsed by Christ and his Apostles and by all their true successours The sacramentes in the olde Testament vnto which anie promise was annexed were these two onely that is circumcision and the Passouer which doe rightly and aptly represent 〈◊〉 two sacramentes set forth in the newe â—â—â—ament as Baptisme and the Lordes â—â—â—er which haue bene vsed alwaies â—â—â—e true Church euer since Christ and â—â—â—ued of the auncient Fathers as the onely knowne sacramentes appoynted by â—â—â—rist So Augustine affirmeth That 〈◊〉 Lord the Apostles deliuered vnto â—â—â—ewe sacraments in steede of manie 〈◊〉 the same to be most easie in doing â—â—â—st reuerend in vnderstandinge and in â—â—â—eruation most pure to wit the sacrameÌ„ts of Baptisme the celebratioÌ„ of thâ— sacrament of the body and blood of ouâ— Lorde Likewise another sayth The sacramentes of Christ in the catholikâ— Church are Baptisme and the bodâ— and bloude of our Lorde Which sacramentes also and all the principle poynte of our true religion Constantine the Christian and godly Emperour and alâ— his noble successours mightely defended and set forth the same The same Constantine was christened not by the Pope buâ— by Eusebius Bishop of Nicomedia noâ— in a corner but in the presence of many other not popishe but Christian Bishopes Hee ouercame Licinium his sisters husbande who persecuted the Christians The same Constantine summoned a councell at Nice against that blasphemous heritike Arrius And as the historie saith the Emperour before named wrote vnto all the rulers of the Churches that they shoulde be at Nice by a day to the Bishop of the Apostolicke sea to Macarius Bishope of Hierusalem and to Iulius the bishope of Rome In that flourishing time liued sundry godly writers whose bookes nowe extant doe shewe that they embracced the same faith and religion which we at this day do professe touching the Sacramentes iustification by faith onely inuocation to God alone saluation onely by Christ and all other chiefe poyntes of doctrine whose workes if your Romish Church had kept inuiolable and had not corrupted as you did in like manner with the Canonicall books of the Bible you might haue learned a difference betwixt trueth and errour And if you would yet hearken to the doctrine which they doe deliuer they will teach you that your Romish church is a cage of vncleane birdes and that your religion is mingled with all heresies though you charge others with the same fault and that you haue no true discipline but rather crueltie no principall pastor sauing Antichrist no officers but Blood-suckers and no Churche in deede but the Sinagogue of Sathan that cruell mother whiche will needes haue the Childe to be cutte in peeces which spareth no Sexe or kinde no Infant though it bee in the mothers belly no hoare heade nor aged person finally your church hath no truth but falshood and iâ— wholly imbamed with the heresies of aâ— ages You take parte with the Iewes anâ— Pagans you care not with whome yoâ— shake handes so it be not with Christ or his holy Gospell vnto which you doo beare â— deadly hate And yet you stand vpon youâ— reputation and would haue men to beleeuâ— you whatsoeuer you speake Whereas you call our Church A contemptible vnknowne close and secret company at thiâ— day the Lord be thanked the greater partâ— of Europe besides the countries I spakâ— of before doo ioyne together with vs iâ— one truth of doctrine I would haue yoâ— to prooue by the worde of God for youâ— wordes bee no warrant to auenturâ— our soules vppon your Romish Church to bee the auncient and true Catholike Church and to professe the same faith and doctrine truely which Christ his Apostles left behinde them and that which was in the time of those godly Emperours of Rome and a long tyme after or that Christ did promise to leaue such a Church as should haue onâ— generall and chiefe Pastor to sit in iudgement to punish offendors and to call a generall councell to try the truth or else we cannot ioyne with you against God and against his sonne Christ For we acknowledge no other principall Pastor but Christ Iesus whom the heauens must conteine vntill the time that all thinges be restored which God hath spokeÌ„ by the mouth of al his holy prophets since the world began who neuerthelesse is euer present with his Church Papist 7 AGaine I require of the Protestant to declare by good histories or by reasonable likelyhod when the true church as they account theirs to be decaied or in what yeare the religion of the Papistes came in and preuailed Whether all their true Church was so soundly sleeping that none would preach against it euen at the tyâ—e when it first entred Whether all nations sodeinly and in one yeare were mooued vnto the doctrine of the Papistes no one man of all their true â—hurch either preaching teaching wriâ—â—â—g nor attempting any thing against it â— making mention of it Whether all â—â—â—kes of seruice were altered Whether 〈◊〉 a moment the masse was sayed in steede of their Apostolike communion Whether sodenly men began to pray for soules departed sodenly required the helpe of Saintes in heauen sodeinly the tongue of common praier was altered Tell me in what yeare of our Lorde vnder what Emperour vnder what Pope vppon what occasion this merueilous mutation was made by whome all these thinges were wrought who preached against it what storie maketh mention of it who of al your Pastoures preached against it Was Goddes Churche so voyde of the spirite of truth and strength that euen then when it most flourished it had none that durste open his mouth agaynst suche corruption of religion at the firste entering in of it and when it mighte soone haue beene repressed If it coulde not haue bene stayde tell me in what yeare of our Lorde this mutation was made and who of the true Preachers withstode our doctrine and yf wee note you not by the names euerye one of your captaines and the seuerall errours whiche they taught and the time and yeare when they rose against the receiued truth and the councels wherein they were orderly condemned If I say this canne bee doone on your side towards vs and wee do it not for improofe of your Church and religion I recante And for that purpose because the gouernement of the Bishoppes of Rome is moste misliked of them And yet moste notoriously knowne by euery Historie let them note the Pope that first brake of the course of his forefathers beliefe and Regiment in anie Articles of faith or necessarie Christian vsage And I recant Answeare 7. MY meaning is not to
foresaide states in their gouernement and ministerie And if he can proue vnto me that their Churche hath neuer lacked the same appointed officers or that anie other Churche or congregation besides oures hath alwayes kept that charge and I recant Answeare TRuth it is that Christ gaue some to be Apostles some Prophetes some Euangelistes some Pastoures and teachers but where doe you reade that our Sauiour Christe euer promised all these functions to continue successiuely to the worldes end Shew vnto me anie which was called apostle or prophet after Christ his Apostles Saint Paule the blessed Apostle maketh mentioÌ„ of false Apostles which alwaies withstood the doctrine of the Gospell maintained the ceremonies of the Lawe and the inuentions of their owne braine and set them selues opposite vnto the true Apostles and if you will claime your succession from them I will easily agree vnto you There hath bene Preachers and teachers at all times saue onely when they haue bene kept vnder by your tyrannie which haue preached Gods truth and reproued your grosse Idolatrie whom your Church hath alwaies persecuted vnto death and euen vntill this time there hath bene and are Christians in Graecia and Asia which haue euerâ—â—â—e and doe yet vtterly detest the Pope the head of your Church with all your deâ—â—â—s and traditions But shewe mee in one place I pray you of the Scripture where euer Christ promised anie such succession to continue in all ages Yâ— were so that the truth of Gods worde â— the functions in Gods Church should â—ceed alwaies by ordinary succession tâ— you had a good foundation to builde yâ— succession vpon Then Christ our Sauiâ— by right should not haue controuled â— Scribes and Pharesies which satâ— Moses chaire which bragged of succeâ—on as well as you doe saying We are the seed of AbrahaÌ„ we are the disciplâ— of Moses vnto vs God hath made â— promisses as for Christ we knowe nâ— from whence he came And therefâ— they asked Christ By what power he dâ— such thinges who gaue him that auâ—thoritie and so they might very well haâ— said in respect of their outward successioâ— For so Annas and Caiphas were Bysâ—ops aswell as Aaron But that warniâ— and admonicion which Saint Paule gaâ— vnto the congregation of Ephesus toucâ—ing succession might satisfie you I know this saith he that after my departingeâ— there shal greuous Woolues enter in amoung you not sparing the flocke moreouer of your owne selues shall mâ— arise speaking peruerse thinges And againe he saith That true faith cometh not by succession but by hearing not the Bishoppe of Rome but the worde God. Yf Christ had appoynted anie such succession would he haue forewarned vs that desolation of abhomination should sit â—â—â—he holy place and that Antichrist should â—â—â—rude him selfe into the roome of Christ If you looke well about you you haue no cause to glory in succession for that by your writers sufficient is spoken to discredit your succession for one saith That many Popes haue fallen into heresies that Hildebrand in whose time defection froÌ„ the faith tooke place was charged by a generall councell to be an adulterer a Churchrobber a periured person a maâ—queller a sorcerer and an apostata Another calleth the Popes monsters and 〈◊〉 shapen creatures If your heade and chiefe of your Church be such what shall we iudge of the rest I wil take for proofe of your succession euen the confessioÌ„ of Pope â—drian the fourth Succedimus non Peâ—â—â—o in pascendo sed Romulo in parriciâ—â—â—o We succeede saith he not Peter in â—â—â—eding but Romulus in killing To be â—â—â—t what auaileth the succession of your Church vnlesse you coulde prooue that she hath alwayes mainteined the doctrine of Christ For Saint Augustine saith Thaâ— many doo giue the outward marke of a Byshop to wolues and be wolues them selues That the truth of Gods woord maâ— be the touchstone of lawfull succession giuâ— eare to the godly councell of a learned father It becommeth vs saith he to obeâ— those Priestes in the Church which hauâ— their succession from the Apostles anâ— together with the succession of their Bishoprikes according to the good wil oâ— God the father haue receiued the vndoubted gift of the truth An other being pressed with the like succession saith If any of my predecessors haue not obserued and kept the same that our Lorâ— hath taught vs both by his example anâ— also by his commaundement his simplicitie may be pardoned but we if we doâ— the like can hope for no pardon beinâ— now admonished and instructed of ouâ— Lord. And comparing all other Churcheâ— with the primatiue â—hurch the same fathâ— saith If the pipes of the conduit whicâ— before ran with abundance happen â— faile do we not vse to search to the heaâ— The Pristes of God keeping Gods commaundementes must doo the same that if the truth haue fainted or failed in any point we returne to the original of our Lord and to the tradition of the Gospel and of the Apostles that thence wee may take the discretion of our dooings from whence the order it selfe and originall first began Thus muche concerning the succession of your Church hauing no warrant by Gods woorde Papist 6. AND for the necessarie vse and execution of the foresaide offices they must further bee asked what sacraments the ProtestaÌ„ts ministred for the space of a M. yeares together in which they confesse their congregation to haue beene neare or wholly hidde what correction or discipline they kept for offendors to whom they did preache their heresies Where did 〈◊〉 principall pastor sitte in iudgement â—â—â—re did they gather as in a councell â—â—â—ye the trueth in doubtfull matters Hâ—â—e might Christian men iustelie ofâ—â—â—d with some of their Bretheren haue sought out your officers or congregation to make complaint of him or how if it lacked any man to haue beene baptized of them or to haue receiued the communion of them or haue ioyned them selues in faith and religion vnto them How might I say that coâ—temptible and vnknowne companie haâ— beene found out in this case If therefoâ— you can shewe me that euer anie man sougâ— iustice or knowledge of truth sacramentâ— faith or anie helpe of saluation at the Proâ—stants secret and close Church or anie othâ— where else but of Gods knowne Catholâ— Church And I recant Aunsweare 6. TOuching Sacramentes we finâ— two appoynted expresly by the worâ— of God namely Baptisme and the Lorâ— Supper The one doeth signifie our neâ— birth and regeneration that as by watâ— the filthe of the body is washed cleane through faith in the bloud of Christ oâ— soules are clensed from all sinne and wâ— are incorporat and ingraffed into the bâ— of Christ and made members of his boâ— of which he is the onely head the other doâ— put vs in remembraunce that Christ Iâ—sus is our spiritual foode and sustenaunâ— that he is the celestial Manna which came downe from Heauen and
prison for that he woulde not take vpon him to be supreame heade of the Churche which Hildebrande poysoned sixe Popes was a coniurer and raised vp Diuelles and threwe the Sacrament into the fire Another saith that they were many that both priuatly and openly cursed Pope Hildebrande and said that with his hatred and ambition he troubled the worlde and that vnder the colour of Christ he wrought the feates of Antichrist This was he in whose time Sathan was let loose and when your Churche of Rome might truely be called the seate and harbour of Antichrist the man of sinne which setteth himselfe against God which sitteth in mens consciences is euen that whore which Saint Iohn speaketh of Which shoulde make the nations of the earth drunken with the cuppe of her fornication and hath imbrued her handes in the bloude of Gods Saintes Surely I muste needes say if that these Potenâ—ates had bene but a litle whitled and â—ot beastly drunke they woulde neuer haue bene so deceiued by Antichriste and receiued the marke of the beast What Lorde King or Emperour woulde haue kissed the Popes foote holden his stirâ—ope serued him at the table To coÌ„clude besides their wickednes in life as many of them being coniurers adulterets namelie Siluester the seconde whoe gaue him selfe bodie and soule to the Diuell that he might be Pope and Pope Ioane the woman Pope who traueled with Childe as shee was carried on foure mens shoulders about in procession their doctrine is most damnable and repugneth in all poyntes the Gospell of Christe As one saying of Agryppa speaking of the Pope and and Churche of Rome plainely sheweth They commaunde saith he the Angelles they haue power ouer the dead they vse violence against the Scriptures to haue the fulnesse of authoritie The Pope him selfe is become intollerable There was neuer Tyrant like vnto him in pompe and pride The Legates of the Byshoppe of Rome doe so riotte in their the Pope to be Antichrist as Irenaeus a godly father sheweth Antichrist saith he being a runnegate and a theefe yet hee will be woorshipped as a God And being but a bondseruant yet he will be proclaimed and published as a King. Another saith Antichrist shall faigne him selfe to bee holy that hee may deceiue men vnder the colour of holines yea he shall call him selfe God and shal cause him self to be worshipped and shall promise the kingdome of heauen An other saith Whereas he is a damned man and no spirit he pretendeth him selfe to bee a God and whatsoeuer he dooth no man may aske him Domine cur ita facis Sir why doo you so Enter now into your owne conscience examine these sayinges vprightly looke vppon them with a single eye and theÌ„ iudge you indifferently And I trust that you will recant according to your promise Papist 8 ITEM I aske what kinde and order of seruice or common prayer what way of ministring the Sacraments your Church had before papistrie as you cal it preuailed in the worlde shewe me one booke or coppie of communion or what else you list that was in english or lacked praying for the departed or inuocation of Saintes in heauen or that wanted oblation or sacrifice or that charged a number to receiue else the Prieste could not consecrate or say Masse receiuing alone or shewe anye note in a communion booke that people should take the sacrament for plaine breade or that they should giue no honour vnto it shewe this booke or anie Church or congregation that euer had aniâ—â—utenticall seruice but ours And I recant Answeare 8 I Shal not neede to stand long in reciting what kind of seruice was vsed before papistrie began verely euen the same which our Sauiour Christ set foorth which is recorded in the foure Euangelists and in the Epistles and writings of the Apostles from which the Apostles the congregations vnto whome they had preached the Gospell departed not one iotte And so the Apostle speaking of the institution of the Lordes Supper saith That thing which I haue receiued of the Lord the same haue I deliuered vnto you As though he should say euen he which ought onely to beare authoritie in the Church hath prescribed a way and orders of celebrating his laste Supper of whiche these are the chiefe partes That the Minister shoulde shewe the Lordes death by preaching his woorde and Gospell by calling vppon the name of the Lorde in prayer in deliuering the bread wine to bee receiued with thankesgeuing that the congregation shoulde for their partes proue and try them selues touching the knowledge of GOD fayth in the mercies of God offered in Christ and true sorrowe and lamentation for their sinnes past endeuouring them selues to leade a new life to shew forth the Lords death in consenting to his woorde and institution It is manifeste that the people to the number of three thousande soules beeing of diuerse countries and nations conuerted vnto the Gospell by Peters preaching continued for so the holie Ghoste speaketh in the Apostles doctrine and felowshippe and breaking of breade and prayers This order of seruice was vsed in all congregations from time to time amongest true Christians and remayned perfect for the space of sixe hundred yeares and odde yea vntill the same was altered by your Popish Cleargie who not being contented with that whiche Chrisâ—e his Apostles and the auncient Doctoures and Fathers of the Churche had sette foorth deuised a newe way of worshipping GOD a new â—order of ministration a straunge and newe â— deuised forme of prayer and so turned all vpside downe But in defence of the truth we may boldely and truely answeare you that we holde and mainteine the same order of seruice the same ministration of Sacramentes the same prayer that the true Apostles and faithfull Christians vsed in all ages And whereas you aske for Bookes in Englishe which were written before Papistrie beganne in which there is no mencion made of praying for the deade of inuocation to saintes of priuate Masse It is plaine that there were sundrie godly bookes of Scripture whiche Dioclesian that wicked Emperour did burne in open markettes whose steppes your Churche of Rome hath followed euermore in suppressing the truth by suche meanes Notwithstanding God be thanked there bee manie volumes exstant writteÌ„ both by the auncient and godly fathers of the Church as also in the Saxon tongue in verie oldâ— English of which I haue seene one veriâ— lately found in a verie olde ruinons wall which forbiddeth prayers for the deade whiche teacheth vs onely to inuocate thâ— name of God which maketh mention oâ— no masse but of the communion in botâ— kindes and to conclude doeth aduouche iâ— all pointes the same Sacramentes thâ— same principles of religion and the same manner of worshipping God that we doe and proueth the same by the scriptures Iâ— appeareth in histories that the Bohemians made peticion vnto the councell holden aâ— Basill that
they mighte bee permitted to haue still the Gospels the Epistles and the Creede in their vulgare tongue iâ— which peticion they affirmed that in the Sclauon language it had beene vsed of old in the Church and likewise in their owne kingdome Charles the great called fiue councels namely at Mentze Rome Remes Cabilon and Arelate also decreed that onely the canonicall bookes of the Scripture shoulde be reade in the Church and none other as it was decreed long before in the councell holden at Carthage He â—ame one of them in the whole Church eiâ—her erected for your faith Church and serâ—ice or not prepared for all sortes for cathoâ—ke practises proue to me that it was done â—or any other seruice and religion then ours â—r that they be monuments of any other faith â—r church then that common knowne cathoâ—cke church And I recant Answeare 9. WHereas you demaund What furniture our Congregation euer â—ad c. I must needes tell you that either â—he hauing of such furniture or the want â—hereof are but weake feble argumentes â— proue the true Church of God by In â—utwarde pompe in superfluous ornaâ—ents in vnnecessarie toyes in vaine decâ—ing of your Churches with gold and silâ—er and other precious and costly attire in â—nprofitable rites in furnishinge your â—mples with abhominable idols in pleaâ—ng the eare in delightinge the eye in â—uginge in roaring in toying in trifâ—ng in nodding in becking in ducking â— all such heathenishe shewes and sensles significations wee thinke your Romishâ— Church excelled all idolatrous Ethnicks before and therefore in such superstitiouâ— trifles wee will not compare with you but willingly geue vnto you the preheminence because they be not signes of true religion but badges of Antichriste and furniture to deck the whore of Rome withall For all such kind of trumperie be her very markes As these was none of these toyes in the primitiue Churche neither in anie true reformed Churche sithence that â—â—ine â–ª so there was no Churches vntill the time of Constantine the great who builded churches and moued others to doe the like for the people of God to repaire vnto for to heare the worde of God truly preached to receiue the Sacramentes faithfully ministred according to Christes institution for the same vse and purpose we haue builded Churches and doe continually repaire and reedifie suche as be decayed and â—uâ—nous But vnto the time of Constantine the Christians were violentely and extremelie put to death and persecuted of tyrantes hauing no publike places to resorte vnto but priuately assembled themselues sometimes in dwelling houses sometimes in hollowe caues and dennes â—or feare of the cruel bloudie torments Laurentius Valla saith that in times past before the raigne of Constantine the greate the Christians had no temples but secrete and close places holie little houses but no great and gorgeous buildinges chappelles no Churches oratories within priuate walles no publike and open Churches For your chalices I will onelie vse the saying of Pope Boniface In time past saith he golden Byshoppes vsed woodden chalices but now wodden Byshopps vse golden chalices In like manner in Constantine his time there were no altars of lime stone but communion tables of wood and a long time after as it may easilie be proued by auncient writers Athanasius writeth That the ArriaÌ„ Heretikes in their furie and their rage did carrie foorth and burne the seates the pulpettes the wodden table and boorde and suche other thinges as they coulde gett out of Christian Churches S. Augustine writeth the same of the Donatistes Concerning your vestimentes your catholike practises and all your trumperies and beggerly Ceremonies for which you haue no warrant in Gods booke we way not one rushe Wee hould vs contented with that which Christ our sauior his Apostles and other catholik godly Fathers vsed Did not our sauiour Christ I pray you minister his last supper vnto his Apostles at the table without any further ceremonie euen as the Apostles all true Christians haue done euer more â–ª whose example the Lord grauÌ„t vs to folow Papist 10 I Aske of them whether the Lutherans Zwinglians Illirians Caluinists Confessionists Zwingfeldians Anabaptists and such like be all of one church And if either they can proue vnto me that these being of such diuersitie in faith and religion make one church or that eche of these sectes may giue saluation to their folowers being so disagreable one with the other in high points of our religion or that I should beleeue all these rather then the catholike church or one of these more then an other all makinge such a bould chaleÌ„ge for the truth Gospel Let the protestants of all these conferr together shew me of these things and with all amoÌ„g them selues agree to what sort of these sectes they would haue me I recant Answeare 10 I Do merueile greatly that you impute vnto our religion the heresies of the Anabaptists Swingfeldians seing that wee doe not in our daily sermons inueigh against their blasphemous errours but also haue written sundry bookes to confute the the same You doe aske a verie hard difficult questioÌ„ which you do vtter either for want of wit or lacke of knowledge to wit Whether Caluin c. were of one Churche whether they gaue saluatioÌ„ to their followers It is not in man precisely to define who is of Gods Church for that they only be of Gods inuisible church Whome God hath elected vnto saluation in his sonne Christ before the fouÌ„datioÌ„ of the world was layd God only doth knowe who are his But it may be that you vnderstand it of the visible church then I will aunswere you accordingly that we are certainly persuaded that they were Gods children and that they ended their life and closed vp their eyes in the true faith of Christe doe rest now in Gods Kingdom Where you seeme to charg them with manifold scismes diuersitie of iudgmentes the truth is that they agreed in all points with the scriptures sauing that Luther in the real presence dissented from the rest which heresie as I haue noted before he receiued of your church of Rome I would not haue you to thinke that we ground our faith and religion or repose any part of our saluation vpon any particular Church or Councel or vpon any mortall man as you do We receiue mens iudgments and writings as they are men and so may erre And so the godly Fathers in times past were reputed and taken S Augustine hath these woordes Wee ought not sayth he to accept the disputations writings of any one be they neuer so Catholik and prayse worthie as we do receiue the canonicall scriptures but that sauinge their reuerence due vnto them we may well finde fault with or reiect some thinges in their writinges if it happen we finde they haue otherwise thought then the truth may beare them so am I in
faith saythâ— thus In this battaile of diuells notwithstanding the godly Princes the souldiers the Ecclesiasticall Prelats subiectes be ouerthrowen yet euermore some remaine in whom the truth of faithe and the righteousnesse of a good conscience is preserued And although there remaine but two men in the world yet in the same church then al meÌ„ yong old for those yeres perished with out hope of mercy because they coulde not vnite them selues and be incorporate to the companie and congregation whereof they neuer hearde nor coulde by anie meanes surmise Therefore let anie man aliue proue me that either anie man could euer out of the trewe Churche be saued or that anie other companie could bee knowne for the true and onely Church but our common catholike societie or that all men were damned for a thousand yeares togither because they coulde not surmise of anie other Church then that which practised all holie functions which Christ left for our saluation â—n the worlde And I recant Answeare 12 COncerninge your question whether anie man for the space of a thousande â—eeres of blindnesse could be saued out of the Protestantes Churche wee doe not yeld so much vnto you that your blinde Church continued a thousande yeares but of that I haue sufficiently spoken before and haue shewed in what manner it began howâ— iâ— grewe and increased and when it came to full perfection You haue moreouer framed albeit vncunningly a dilemma or captious proposition wherein you meanâ— to intrappe vs in these words If say you for the space of a M. yeres the people could be saued by the popish sacraments then theâ— was away to heauen without Gods church â— then al are daÌ„ned which died within the â—â—â— passe of these M. yeres Whiche argumeâ— is vntrue in either parte for wee neitheâ— can ascribe saluation to your sacramenteâ— neither do we coÌ„demne those which died â— the time of ignoraunce but referre them â— God 's secret iudgement Furthermore â— answere that without the Church of Goâ— there is no saluation but this Churche â— not bounde nor tied to place time or peâ—son but is inuisible not knowne saue onlâ— to GOD who causeth his lighte to shinâ— forthe of darknesse who doth by his holâ— spirite breathe where he thinketh goodâ— Who is no accepter of persons as Pâ—ter saith But in euerie nation he that feareth God and worketh righteousnes is accepted of him Who is sure in his promises cannot denie himselfe And Saint Paule groundinge vpon Gods election and mans faith saith That the foundation of God remaineth sure hath his seale that the Lord knoweth who are his Man cannot iudge whom God hath chosen For although Elias supposed all the children of God in Israel to haue been murdered by wicked Iesabell and cried out I onely am left aliue Aunswere was made him by God That hee had seuen thousande in Israell that had not bowed there knees vnto Baall And therefore we will not iudge those which haue died in ignorance for want of knowledge but referr al to Gods secret Iudgement who knoweth whom he hath chosen Touching the visible church Saint Augustine saith That acording to gods secret predistination there be manie sheepe without the Church and manie wolues within the Church for he knoweth them and hath them marked that knowe neither God nor them selues So that we neither condemne olde nor younge rich nor poore noble nor simple but leaue them vnto the Lorde who knoweth his God is able in a moment to turne mans harte The theife that did hang vppon the right hande of our sauiour Christ when he desired him to remember him when he shoulde come into his kingdom was most louingly receiued I haue knowen sundry persons which haue ben trained vp al their life time in your popish religion and vppon their deathbed when they did see no waye but one they haue renounced all your trumperie and popish woorship and haue dyed faithfull Christians to mans iudgement Therefore I ende this matter with that saying of the Apostle That Christ is able to haue compassion vppon them that be ignorant So we referre all things vnto Christ as vnto our onely heade and Captaine who hath conquered all our enemies and reconciled vs to God his father You repose a trust and confidence in your Sacramentes wherevnto you doo ascribe saluation vsing them as a way or meanes to climbe vp to heauen as though they coulde sanctificand conferre grace which albeit you did vse them according vnto Christes institution which you haue cleane altered and doo not agree therewith in anie one pointe yet they were but visible signes of inuisible grace So we say that they bee true significations of Gods eternall grace beeing ministred according to the rule which Christ hath left But if grace were necessarily ioyned with the outwarde Sacramentes then the wicked receiuing the Sacramentall signes shoulde also receiue grace which is farre from them I will not vrge you with manie authorities for the proofe hereof whether the sacraments conteine grace or no Reade but your owne writers and they can satisfie you herin Bonauenture one of your own side saith Wee maye not in anie case saye that the grace of God is conteined in the Sacramentes substantially as water in the vessell or medicine in the boxe for to vnderstaÌ„d it so it were erronious But the Sacraments are saide to conteine the grace of God because they signifie the grace of God. An other of your schoole-doctors saith The speciall grace of the passion of Christ is conteined in the Sacraments of the Church euen as the power of the woorkeman is conteined in the instrument or toole wherewith he woorketh Euen as the children of the Prophets sayde to Elizeus the Prophet O thou man of god death is in the pot for that they feared some poisoning herbe to be in the pot because of the bitternes And as the wise man saith Death and life are in the power of the tongue and they that loue it shall eate the fruite thereof His meaning is that by the well or euill vsing of the tongue commeth eyther good or bad But thus much of these matters Papist 13 AGaine shew me anie church or immagin if you can by good reason a Church of Christ in which there is no gathering together for preaching no spirit of prophesying no rodde of correction no order of ministring nor anie spirituall function that can be named prooue me that there can be a true Church for a thousande yeares togeather and lacke all thâ—se things and withall that there was one vntrue Church which for those many yeares onelye practised these offices to the saluatioÌ„ of many And geue me a good reason why this church that alwaies hath had these functions should be a false Church and the other that wanted them all shoulde be a true Church and I recant Answeare 13 THese be verie base childish reasons to prooue the true
the king as vnto the chiefe And to conclude he saieth Honour all men Loue brotherly felowship feare God honoure the king Markâ— also howe Tertullian a godlie Father agreeth with the Apostle against your supâ—rioritie We honour saith he the Emperoures maiestie as a man next vnto GOD for so is the Emperour greateâ— then all men while he is lesse then onelie the true God. Of this minde waâ— Pope Gregory as hee sheweth in an Epistle which he writeth vnto Mauritiuâ— the Emperour Beholde saith he Thuâ— will Christe answeare you by me beinâ— both his and your most humble seruantâ— I haue committed my priests into youâ— handes as for my parte I beyng subiect vnto your Maiesties commaundâ—ment haue caused your order to be senâ— throughout diuerse parts of the world â–ª So that by the premisses it plainelâ— appeareth what dangerous errours and corrupt doctrine moste repugnant to Christe your Churche of Rome hath taught the people of God. Papist 18 LET anie Protestante in the whole worlde prooue vnto me that their Churche coulde rightly be called Catholike which was so particular that â— man aliue coulde name a place where â—y such churche was or that it might bee â—lled holie which had neither Baptisme â—r anie other sacrament to sanctifie anie â— her felowes withall or that it coulde bee â—e which as it grewe vp in the worlde was â—uided into so manie sundrie sectes â–ª or that â— might be called Apostolike which coulde â—uer make an accompt by orderly successiâ— from anie apostolike man or that the seâ—ete base and disordered congregation was â—er of that maiestie that it might require â—e obedience of all nations or that it was â—er able to gather generall councels or exâ—cise discipline vpon offendours or that â—hese titles proper by scripture and doctours â— the true church could euer be chaleÌ„ged by â—ght to their congregation I meane these â—itles following Corpus Christi the bodie of Christ Sponsa Christi the spouse of Christ â—nicè dilecta Christo the dearely beloued of Christ Amica Christi Christes louer Doâ—us dei Gods house Columba speciosa the beautifull Doue Columna veritatis thâ— piller of truth Ciuitas Dei the citie of Godâ— Ciuitas super montem posita a Citie set vpoâ— a hill Hortus conclusus a close garden Fons signatus a fountaine sealed vp Sponsa agnt The spouse of the Lambe Answeare 18 YOu doe vâ—ge often this Catholike Church and doe seme as of right to challenge iâ— to be your Churche of Rome but how vntruely I haue partely touched before This worde Catholike doth signifie vniuersall as in deede the true church of God is vniuersally spread and scattered abroade in all coastes and countries of the worlde and so doe diâ—erse good writers speake of it Saint Augustine sayeth That the catholike Churche is dispearsed throughout the whole earth And iâ— another place hee sayeth That the Church is called Catholike because she is vniuersally perfect and halteth in nothing and is poured throughout the whole worlde An other saith That the vniuersall Churche is Hierusalem the citie of the liuing God which comprehendeth the congregation of the electe and chosen written in heauen An other sayeth That the churche is truely called catholike which is separated by sincere pure and vnspotted communion or felowship from all vnfaithful persons and from their successours and companions These thinges of duetie appertaine vnto the Churche First that it is vniuersall and therefore as I haue sayde before it is not limited eyther to place time or person Secondarily that it is of â—he elect whome God in his secrete and â—rcane knowledge hath sealed vnto life eâ—erlasting Thirdly that it hath no felowâ—hippe with the vnfaithfull and with such â—s will not beleeue the trueth Neuerâ—helesse in the visible churche there be of â—ll sortes mixte together both good and â—adde beleeuers and hypocrites darâ—ell and pure wheate But to answeare â—our interrogation You woulde knowe Howe the Protestantes churche can be calâ—d the true Catholike and Apostolike â—hurche And I woulde demaund the like â—f you howe your Churche of Rome can â— knowne to be the true churche of god â—ruly there is an vnfallible rule set down readie howe the true Churche of God may be knowne and howe this controuersie may easily be decided For if we will beleeue the holie Apostle of God he telleth the Ephesians That they are no more straungers and Forrenners but citizens with the sainctes and of the howshould of God and are built vppon the foundation of the Apostles and Prophetes Iesus Christ himselfe being the chiefe corner stone in whome all the building coupled together groweth to an holy temple in the Lorde So that you may see that the true Church of God is discerned and knowen by the Scriptures The true sheepe doe heare the voice of Christ and will not heare a stranger And so the godly father Augustine saith That in the scriptures wee learneâ— Christ in the Scriptures wee learne the Churche Wherefore doe wee not then reteine in them both Christe and his Church And writing against the Donatists being notorious heretikes he saith Betwixt vs and you this cometh in question where the church is what shall wee doe nowe in this matter â–ª Shall wee seeke for the church in our owne words or in the words of her heade which is our Lorde Iesus Christ I thinke that wee ought to seeke it rather in his woords who is the truth and doth best of all knowe his owne body So Chrisostome saith That since the time that Heresies inuaded the church there can bee no triall of true Christianitie neither any other refuge of Christians which woulde know the true faith but onely the scriptures of God and therefore he which will know the true Church of God howe shall he know it but onely by the Scriptures Thus it appeareth that the true Church of God dooth defend her selfe onely by the Scriptures and woord of God which your Church of Rome doeth vtterly refuse for that you boldly affirme that the Scriptures haue not their strength neither receiue their authoritie from god But from the Church of Rome Yea moreouer you say That the holy Church of Rome hath power by a singular priuiledge graunted vnto her to open and to shut vp the gates of the Kingdome of heauen from whom shee listeth and that this power of binding and loosing is no lesse in your church of Rome then it is in Christ But you will say that I doe sclaunder you in saying That you affirme the Scriptures of God to haue their strength and authoritie from the church of Rome Truly one of your owne writers hath these wordes Who soeuer leaneth not sayth he to the doctrine of the Romaine church and to the authoritie of the Bishop of Rome as vnto the vnfallible rule of God of which Doctrine the holy Scripture taketh her force and authoritie he is an heretike He saith further That
make anie long or large discourse or rehersal as concerning the Originall and offspring of your holy Churche of Rome whose beginning was with moste detestable and heynous murders poysoninges and other suche like meanes and practises neyther yet to dilate vppon the proceading succession or continuance thereof from time to tyme and vntill this present day neyther doo I mynde to remember you of the honour and reuerence which by the collour of your succession you haue wonne therevnto from God vnto whome onely such honor is due But to answeare you in few words the true Church of God began first to decay wheâ— as your Byshoppes of Rome not conteâ—ted with their dioces and their peculiaâ— charge vsurped other mens rightes anâ— interest or when they chalenged aucthoritie aboue their felow Byshoppes Thiâ— was in Phocas time who flew his Maistâ— Mauritius the Emperour and to currâ— fauoure with the Pope yeelded vnto hiâ— that superioritie that he shoulde be calleâ— the vniuersall Byshoppe and heade of thâ— Churche And so saith Platina Bonifaâ— saith he the thirde of that name obtained of Phocas the Emperoure yeâ— not without greate contention that hâ— should be called the heade of the Churche So saieth Sabellicus The Pope Boniface the thirde saith he at his beginning intreated Phocas the Emperoure that the Romaine Church might be the heade of all other Churches and that was graunted vnto the Apostolike Sea not without greate strife the Grecians claiming that honour saying that they ought by Christian pietie to be chiefest in respecte of the Empire whiche long before that time was at Constantinople Yet it appeareth by the writinges of Gregorie the greate that this challenge shoulde rather be a signe of Antichrist then of a true minister of Christ and therefore he writeth vnto Iohn Byshoppe of Constantinople saying It is not my cause but it is Goddes not I onely but the whole Church is troubled because godlie lawes reuerend synodes and the verie commaundementes of our Lord are ouerthrowne by a certaine proude and pontificall name or worde of vniuersalitie And againe he saith Whosoeuer doeth call him selfe an vniuersall Byshoppe is either Antichriste or the forerunner of Antichrist And agayne None of our Romaine Bishoppes euer chaleÌ„ged this name of singularitie none of my predecessors euer agreed to vse this prophane worde we will not receiue this honour though it were offered vnto vs. And to speake the playne trueth euen from this time Goddes true Churche beganne to decay and the superstitions of your Churche of Rome by little and little to increase and as your Churche grewe in wealth and riches so it waxed proude and carelesse as a good writer spake of it Ecclesia peperit diuitias et filia deuorauit matrem Thâ— Church brought forth riches and tâ— daughter deuoured the mother Foâ— euen this same Gregorie who liued sixe hundred yeares and odde after Christ not wtihstanding his owne bookes doe witnesse agaynst him to all posterities yet in his latter age he claymed this name of vniuersalitie though he could neuer attaine it for not onelie he but all before him and manie after him yeelded them selues vnto the Emperours refusing to be called vniuersall byshoppes or heades of the Churche Marcellus Meltiades and Siluester Byshoppes of Rome were in subiection vnto Constantine the Emperour Sirilius in subiection to Theodosius Anno domini 388. Hilarius vnto Iustinian Anno Domini 528. Gregorie the first vnto Mauritius Anno domini 600 Adrian and Leo to Ludouicus Pius Anno domini 830. Sergius vnto Lotharius Anno. 840. Benedict 3. and Iohn 9. vnto Ludouicus the Emperour Sonne of Lotharius Anno domini 856. But some of these byshops with their successoures peeced and patched with certaine superstitious ceremonies your Churche euen vntil â—ildebrandes time otherwise called Gregorie the. 7. at whiche time as it was prophecied long before Antichrist â—d beginne his full raigne Which Hildeâ—ande by a councell of nineteene byshops â—olden at Brixia was condemned for a â—riured person and a Necromancer As for your masse which was and is a more abhominable Idoll then the idoll at Delphos thoughe the Diuell himselfe was worshipped there in personall forme it was seuen hundred yeares in setting together and in framing And transubstantiation the piller of your masse not hatched vntil your Lateran councel beganne which was after Christ 1215. yeares and some euen the chiefest doctoures of your Churche cannot tell whether it be true or false certaine or vncertaine or a verie dreame or no. For Petrus Lumbaâ—â—us rehearseth these doubtes and therevnto he addeth his aunswere Quibusdam ita videtur Quidam dicunt quidam tradunt quidam concedunt alii putauerunt substantiam ibi panis et vini remanere Some men iudge thus Some say thus Some haue written thus some graunt this some other haue thought thus that the verie substance of the breade and wine remaineth still But marke your doctours iudgement and aunswere Si autem queritur qualis sit illa conuersio an formalis an substantialis an alterius generis definire non sufficio Yf a question weare moued what maner of conuersion or chaunge this is whether it be in forme or in substaunce or of some other sort I cannot define You may see your great doctors to be as ignorant and as doubtfull as the rest An other of your doctours saith How the body of Christ is there whether it be by chauÌ„ging of something into it or Christ his body begin to be there to gither with the bread both the substance and the accidents of the breade remaining still without chaunge it is not found expressed in the canon of the bible Beholde your Church Behold your doctours Beholde your vniforme assent and agreement whiche vntruely you so much boast of What time prayers for the dead soules Inuocation to Saintes seruice in an vnknowne and straunge tounge began in your Romish Church it is not much materiall seing they be all expresly â—gainst the worde of god The continuâ—unce of an errour doth not make the erâ—our a truth You may knowe by the scripâ—ures that the soules of such as departe his life in the faith of Christ be with Laâ—arus in Abrahams bosome as Saint â—ohn saith in rest and need not your praiâ—rs Such as end theire life in wickednes â— dye without true repentaunce be in hell â—here as the scripture saith that there is â—o redemption Concerning inuocation â—nd praier which is a parte of gods worâ—hip you robbe God of his due honour if â—ou giue that to anie creature which is â—roper to the creator For God saith by â—is prophet HonoreÌ„ meum alteri non â—abo I will not giue mine honour to â—nie other And againe Call vpon me â—n the day of thy trouble and I wil heare â—hee So likewise our Sauiour Christ â—aith whatsoeuer you shal aske my father â—n my name he shall giue it you And Saint Iohn saith If anie man sinne â—ee haue an
whatsoeuer God him selfe can doo For in name you giue him no lesse prerogatiue Dominus Deus noster Papa Our Lord God the Pope We say that wee are iustified freely by Gods speciall grace and mercie offered in Christ and that faith is the instrument to apprehend this our iustification and so saith the Apostle Ye are saued by grace and that through faith not of our selues it is the gift of god not of workes least any man should reioyce And againe Abraham beleeued God and it was couÌ„ted to him for righteousnesse You say that we are iustified by our owne works yea and that we haue workes more then wee neede which you call woorkes of supererogation or superfluous woorkes We say that we must confesse our sinnes onely vnto God and so saith Dauid I will confesse euen against mine owne selfe mine vnrighteousnesse vnto the Lorde You say That wee muste confesse our sinnes to the prieste and receiue absolution at his handes And this you call Auricular confession We say that the people of God be they neuer so simple or vnlearned ought to haue the vse of the scriptures of GOD in their knowne tongue and both heare them and reade them So Christ biddeth al men To search the scriptures Dauid sayeth That they are a light to our feete Saint Paule saith That whatsoeuer thinges are written they be written for our learnin and eugery scripture sent from God is profitable to teach to instructe to reprooue and to exhort that the man of God may be perfect prepared to euery good woorke He saith further Let the woord of God dwell in you aboundantly Wherevppon Saint Hierome noteth That euen the Leye peoshoulde reade the Scriptures and teache and admonish one an other Your church saieth That the vnlearned people ought not to haue the Scriptures in their vulgar toung that they are hard and full of difficulties We say that no Images are to bee brought into the Temple of God or to bee woorshipped God hath forbidden it by expresse commaundementes â—oth the making and the woorshipping God curseth â—oth the maker thereof the toole that â—eth it and him also that worshippeth â—t Christ saith Thou shalt woorship the â—ord thy God and him onely shalt thou â—erue The Apostle saith that Idolaters â—all haue no inheritance with Christ and â—ith God. The Angell of God refuseth â— be woorshipped and saith moreouer â—oorship God. You say that images are to bee made at they oughte to bee placed in the temâ—es that they are to bee worshipped and that they are the Laie mens bookes yea and that not onely images of Saints departed but also of Christe and of GOD himselfe whiche image of God you set foorth in the similitude of an old aged man hauing a loÌ„g gray beard and a hoare head albeit God hath geuen a straighte charge to the contrarie And Christe saith that no man hath seene God at anie time but the onely begotten sonne of God. Saint Augustine saith That it is abhominable to set anie suche picture in the Churches of Christians If a man had come into anie of your Churches in times past and had vsed your images as Epiphanius a godlie writer did vse the like long sithens you woulde haue cursed him with bell booke and candell and woulde haue burned him to ashes in the ende I will repeate the wordes conteined in an Epistle which Epiphanius did write vnto the Byshoppe of Hierusalem whiche be these I founde saith he a vaile hanging at the entrie of the Churche stained and painted and hauing the Image as it were of Christe or of some Saint for whose picture it was in deede I do not remember Therefore when I sawe the image of a man to hang in the Churche of Christe contrarie to the commaundement of the Scriptures I toare it in sonder and gaue councell to the wardens of the Churche that they should winde and burie some poore bodie in it c. â— beseech you charge the Priestes of that place that they commaunde that suche â—ailes as be contrarie to our religion be â—o more hanged vp in the Churche of Christe it behoueth your reuerence to â—aue care hereof that this superstition â—nmeete for the Church of Christ and â—nmeete for the people which be committed vnto you be remoued I might â—ande long in displaying and manifesting â—he erroures superstitious trifles of your Churche of Rome not onelie in secrete â—ractises and deuises moste expressely aâ—ainst God and his truth but also euen in matters of faith and in the principles of â—rue religion how farre you disagree from Christe and his Gospell and from all â—odlie writers of auncient time But these â—ay serue for a taste sauing that I will â—peake one worde of your Popes greate â—hallenge We say that all men of what calling soeuer they bee oughte to yeeld their obedience vnto suche as are in aucthoritie Christ our Sauiour paied tribute he sayed Giue vnto Caesar that whiche is due vnto Caesar Saint Paule sayeth Let euery soule be subiect vnto the higher powers for there is no power but of GOD whosoeuer therefore resisteth the power resisteth th' ordinauÌ„ce of god Saint Chrisostome vpon these wordes saieth Although thou be an Apostle although thou be an Euangelist although thou be a Prophete or whosoeuer thou arte for this subiection doth not ouerthrowe godlinesse and he doeth not say simplie let him obey but let him be subiect And Theophilacte writing vpon the same place sayeth That the Apostle teacheth al men whether he be a priest or Monke or Apostle that he be subiect vnto Princes Your Churche doeth challenge this aucthoritie from Peter to be aboue Kinges and Emperoures which also you say Peter receiued from Christe For these be the verie words of Pope Nicholas Christ saieth he hath giuen to blessed Peter the righte as well of the â—orldly as also of the heauenly Emâ—yre Wherevpon you grounde these arâ—ments The Sonne is higher and greaâ—r then the Moone Therefore the â—ope is higher and greater then the â—mperour The soule is aboue the boâ—e therefore the pope is aboue the â—mperour Thus you take vpon you not â—elie to haue the superioritie ouer Emâ—erours but also to put them forth of their â—ates and to remoue the Empire at your â—easure And thus did Pope Adrian write â—to Frederike the Emperour My seate â—saith he is in the citie of Rome The â—mperoures seate is at Acon in Arden which is a Forest in Fraunce Whatsoâ—uer the Emperour hath hee hath it of â—s as pope Zacharias traÌ„slated the Emâ—ire from Graecia into Germany So â—ay we againe translate the same from â—e Germanes to the Greekes Behold â— is in our power to bestowe the Emâ—ire vpon whom we liste But note how â—he writinges of Saint Peter doe agree â—ith this proud popish stile Submit your â—elues saith Peter vnto all manner orâ—inaunces of man for the Lords sake Whether it be vnto