stringe of spiritual eatinge and shunninge the Faithe of the Catholike Churche touching the true presence of the Body and Violently wresting the Holy Scripture and Auncient Fathers to a contrary sense admittinge Figures for Truthe tropes for the letter shadowes for thinges plaie vs many a false lesson and teache horrible lies to the vtter subuersion of those that be lead by them The B. of Sarisburie Here is no mention saithe M. Hardinge of Real Presence and thereupon he plaieth vs many a proper Lesson Notwithstandinge here is as mutche mention made of Real Presence as either Christe or his Apostles euer made or in y◠Primutiue Catholique Churche of God was euer beléeued Farther he saithe VVhat reason or Scripture haue ye that a Peece of Breade and a Cuppe of VVine can sette the Death and Resurrection of Christe as it were before your eies Verily when al your tale is tolde ye seeme to saie nothinge els but that the Body of Christe remaineth in Heauen and that wee muste sende vp our soules thither to eate it there by a certaine imagination whiche ye cal Faithe Here ye doo greate wronge M. Hardinge to cal the Faithe of Christe an Imagination or as I trowe ye meane a fansie S. Paule saithe Fides est Substantia rerum sperandarum Faithe is not an Imagination but the Substance and grounde of the thinges that wee hope for If ye trauaile once againe to Rome being thus far instructed already ye wil easily learne the Lesson that one of your late Popes there as it is reported taught his Cardinalles O quantum nobis profuit illa Fabula de Christo That wée ought to sende vp our Faithe into Heauen and there to embrace the Body of Christe it is S. Augustines Doctrine it is not ours These be his woordes Dices Quomodò tenebo Christum Absentem Quomodò in Coelum manum mittam vt ibi sedentem teneam Fidem mitte tenuisti Parentes tui tenuerunt Carne tu tene Corde Thou wilt saie howe shal I holde Christe beeinge Absente Howe we shal I reache my hande into Heauen that I maye holde him sittinge there Sende vp thy Faithe and thou holdest him Thy Fathers the Iewes helde him in the fleashe Holde him thou in thy harte But for as mutche as H. hardinge thought it sufficient so pleasantly to passe ouer this mater with his Imaginations and fansies I thinke it therefore so mutche the more néedeful to shewe the iudgemente of the Auncient Learned Fathers in that behalfe First therefore S Augustine saithe Rerum Absentium Praesens est Fides rerum quae foris sunt intus est Fides rerum quae non videntur videtur Fides Of thinges that be Absente Faithe is Presente of thinges that be without Faithe is within and of thinges that be not seene Faithe is seene Againe be saithe Cùm non obliuiscimur munus Saluatoris nonne nobis quotidiè Christus immolatur Ex ipsis reliquijs cogitationis nostrae id est ex ipsa memoria Christus quotidiè nobis sic immolatur quasi quotidiè nos innouet When wee foregeate not the gifte of our Saueoure is not Christe offered vnto vs euery daye Of the very remanentes of our thoughtes that is to say of our very memorie Christe is so daily offered vnto vs as though he renewed vs euery daie And the more liuely to expresse this mater S. Hierome saith Tibi Conuiuium Christus est Cogitatio Christus est Gaudium Christus est Desiderium Christus est Lectio Christus est quies Christus est Christe is thy banket Christe is thy thought Christe is thy ioie Christe is thy desire Christe is thy readinge Christe is thy reate Likewise S. Ambrose In animis vestris quotidiè pro Redemptione Corporis Christus offertur In your mindes Christe is daily offered for the Redemption of the Body And to passe ouer others for that it pleaseth M. Hardinge to make himselfe sutche mirthe with Imaginations Euthymius a Gréeke Authour writing pourposely of this mater saith thus Non oportet simpliciter ea intueri sed aliud quiddam imaginari interioribus oculis ea perspicere tanouam Mysteria Wee maie not sooke barely vpon these thinges that is vpon the Breade and Wine but muste thereof imagine somme other mater and behold the same with our in vvarde Spiritual eies as it is meete to beholde Mysteries And leaste M. Hardinge shoulde saie This Imagination is vaine and fantastical as is the greatteste parte of his Religion S. Augustine saith Magis sunt illa quae intelligimus quà m ista quae cernimus The thinges that wee vnderstande or imagine by Faithe are more certaine then the thinges that wee see vvith our eies Neither maie you thinke M. Hardinge that these thinges beinge graunted the Ministration of the Holy Supper woulde be superfluous For these twoo Kindes of Eatinge muste euermore necessarily be ioined togeather And who so euer commeth to the Holy Table auaunceth not his Minde vnto Heauen there to feede vpon Christes Body at the Right hande of God he knoweth not the meaninge of these Mysteries but is voide of vnderstandinge as the Horse or the Mule and receiueth onely the bare Sacramentes to his Condemnation Therefore the Mystical Supper of Christe notwithstandinge this Doctrine is not superfluous But your Transubstantiation your Real Presence and a greate parte of this your idle talke is moste vaine and moste superfluous But ye saie Howe can Breade and VVine bringe vs to the hope of Resurrection or of Euerlasting Life and why maie not a man in like manner demaunde of you Haw can a fewe Droppes of colde VVater bringe vs to the hope of Resurrection If VVater maie doo it why maie not Breade and VVine likewise doo it Touchinge the VVater S. Basile saith Baptismus est Potentia Dei ad Resurrectionem Baptisme is the Povver of God to Resurrection Againe he saith Resurrectionis Gratiam in Die Resurrectionis recipiamus Vpon the Daie of Resurrection let vs receiue Baptisme whiche is the Grace of Resurrection S. Hierome saith Non solùm propter Remissionem Peccatorum Baptizamur sed etiam propter Resurrectionem Carnis nostrae Wee are Baptized not onely for Remission of Sinnes but also for the Resurrection of our Fleashe And therefore the Greekes calle Baptisme 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 That is the VVeede of immortalitie Here M. Hardinge it were somme pointe of skil to shewe vs howe so greate Power maie be in so litle VVater Howe be it it is not the VVater in déede that woorketh the force of Resurrection but the Bloude of Christe that is Signified by the VVater And therefore S. Ambrose saithe Baptismus Resurrectionis Pignus Imago est Baptisme is the Pleadge and Image of Resurrection Likewise Ignarius Credentes in Mortem eius per Baptisma Participes Resurrectionis eius efficimur Beleeuinge in the Death of Christe by Baptisme wee are made Partakers of
of our parte Onely by Faithe ▪ yet S. Augustine saithe as it is saide before Habemus Christum in Presenti per Baptismatis Sacramentum Wee haue Christe Presently by the Sacramente of Baptisme Thus is Christe Presente vnto vs Of his parte Onely by his Grace Of our parte Onely by our Faithe By the Sacramentes Onely as by meane of outwarde Instrumentes to moue our senses This light and childishe errour as I haue saide before is called Ignoratio Elenchi and therefore séemeth to procede of Ignorance M. Hardinge should haue better examined the force of his Argumentes before he thus suddainely sente them abroade Touchinge the mater it selfe it is not the Bodily mouthe but Faithe alone that receiueth and embraceth Christes Body S. Augustine saithe Panis iste Interioris Hominis quaerit esuriem Qui credit in eum manducat This Breade requireth the hunger of the Inner Man He that beleeuth in him eateth his Body This is no tangling as you saie M. Hardinge It is the Auncient Catholique Doctrine of y◠Churche of God Wée be wel assured of it knowe certainely what wée saie But touching y◠certainetie of your Doctrine in this point I haue briefely touched it in my Former Replie so mutche as I then thought might séeme sufficiēte Somme of you hold y◠Christes Body passeth down into y◠stomake Somme y◠it entreth onely into the Mouthe goeth no further Somme others saie Quà m citò Species terūtur dentibus tam citò in Coelum rapitur Corpus Christi As soone as the Fourmes of the Breade be grated with the teeth streight waie the Body of Christe is caught vp into Heauen An other of you saithe A Mouse eateth the Body of Christe An other saithe Nay a Mouse cannot eate it Peter Lombarde the Grande Maister of al your Schoole is piteously confounded in the case and cannot imagine what to saie For after he had him selfe moued the question Quid igitur sumit Mus vel quid manducat What is it then that the Mouse receiueth or what eateth it He answeareth Deus nouit Novve God knovveth As for my parte I cannot tel Sutche be your Doctours M. Hardinge sutche is your Doctrine Therefore to conclude with your owne woordes it appeareth by your agréemente and your answeares ye vnderstande not the thinges ye speake of but both◠affirme and denie ye knowe not what M. Hardinge As ye procede foorth ye geue warninge to your Readers not to take you so as though ye held with transubstantiation And here ye speake thereof as best becommeth your scoffinge sprite callinge it a dreame of men of later times whereof they coulde neuer yet agree within them selues By whiche woordes your eloquence hath set foorth your spite and lieing at once For albeit the terme of transubstantiation be of no greater antiquitie then the Councel Laterane vnder Innocentius the thirde where it was by the Holy Ghoste and the Fathers there deuised as very fitte for opening of the Truthe impugned by the Berengarians yet is the Doctrine thereof no lesse Auncient then the Gospel it selfe For maugre the malice of the Deuil and of al the Sacramentaries the Olde Truthe shal preuaile by whiche we are taught that whiche was Breade by the Mystical blessinge to be made Christes Body and that whiche was wine to be made his Bloude as I haue other wheres sufficiently declared And the Churche hath alwaies hereupon perfitely accorded touchinge the Substance though certaine schoolemen in their Scholastical Disputations where oftentimes victorie is sought and Faith not impugned about discussion of somme schoole point haue without preiudice of our belefe disagreede The B. of Sarisburie As for the scoffes and spites and lies ye speake of M. Hardinge let him haue them that hath beste deserued them Then verily without greate wronge you cannot lose them Touching your New Fātasie of Transubstantiation whether it be a dreame or no whether the dreamers of it them selues were euer yet hable rightly to expoūd theire owne dreame it appeareth partely by your owne Confession Ye graunte the name and terme thereof was neuer knowen or hearde of in al the Worlde vntil your late Councel of Laterane holdē in Rome vnder Pope Innòcentius the thirde in the yeere of our Lorde a thousande two hundred and fiftéene in the time of Kinge Iohn the Kinge of England and neuer before So longe the Churche of God was hable wel to stande without your Transubstantiation And al be it ye tel vs notwithstandinge the newnesse of the name yet neuerthelesse the Doctrine thereof hath stil continewed in the Churche and hathe benne euermore receiued and confessed of al the Faitheful and that maugre the malice of the Diuel and of al the Sacramentaries it is as Ancient as the Gospel or as Christe him selfe Yet of y◠other side ye cōfesse plainely that for the space of twelue hundred yéeres and more Roman wiste by what name to calle it But for as mutche as you thinke it lawful for you to auouthe and affirme what you liste true or false without controlmente whereas ye saie this late Faithe of yours is as Auncient as the Gospel knowe you that somme of the beste learned of your owne side haue saide It is a nevve Pointe in Religion and therefore not so Auncient as you seeme to make it It is a doubteful Conclusion and therefore no Faithe at al. D. Tonstal thereof saithe thus De modo quo id fieret fortasse satius erat ▪ Curiosum quenque suae relinquere Coniecturae sicut liberū fuit ante Concilium Lateranum Of the manner and meane howe this might be whether by Transubstantiation or otherwise perhaps it had benne better to leaue euery man that woulde be Curious to his owne Coniecture as before the Councel of Laterane it vvas leafte at libertie You saie it is as Auncient as the Gospel D. Tonstal saith It is but new and came in twelue hundred yéeres and more after the Gospel You saie it is the Catholique Faith D. Tonstal saithe It is a Coniecture or a Gheasse whiche differeth not mutch from a dreame and that before the saide late Councel of Laterane noman vvas bounde to beleeue it And here it maie please you to consider indifferently with your selfe It it were leafte at Libertie as D. Tonstal saithe for any man either to receiue it or to refuse it as he thought good how could it then be the Catholique Faithe If it were the Catholique Faithe as you saie that maugre the malice of the Diuel howe then could it so many hundred yeeres be leafte at libertie Hereof ye saie ye haue written sufficiently otherwheres Al this I graunt your Bookes are knowen How be it if you woulde haue written nomore but Truethe ▪ ye might haue saued mutche time and spared somme paper But if it shal not mislike you once againe more aduisedly to viewe the same ye shal finde in the very Firste Diuision thereof thrée
to be of the Churche For they be not ignorant howe greate the auctoritie of the Churche is Of whose gouernours Christe saied he that heareth you heareth me and he that despiseth you despiseth me And againe Tell the Churche They consider in what credite the Churche is with all Christen people howe they staye themselues by it as beinge the pillour and grounde of the truthe howe they Loue her euen as their common Mother howe they honour it as the Body and fulnes of Christe as the spouse of Christe through Faithe accordinge to that is written I will despouse thee to me in faithe As the true Syon whiche our Lorde hath chosen to be his habitation and his restinge place for euer As the safe Arke to keepe vs from drowninge in the dangerous Seas of this worlde out of whiche nolesse then once out of the Arke of Noe is nosaluation Againe they know the Churche must needes be greatly esteemed amonge all the godly for the singular promiser Christe hath made to it that he would be with it all daies to the ende of the worlde That he would pray to his father for the holy Ghost to be giuen to it the spirite of truthe to remaine withit for euer But as Heretikes impugne the lawe by the woordes of the lawe 〈◊〉 S. Ambrose saithe so to ouer throwe the Churche they presume to take vnto them the name of the Churche But what doo 〈◊〉 when they are vrged and wroonge when by force of argumentes they are straighted and as it were driuen to the walle when it is plainely proued to their face whiche is sone done that they be not in nor of the Churche specially beinge of Heresie openly denounced and by iust Excommunication cutte of from the Churche In this case the practise of the Gospellers is vtterly to sette the Churche as taught and with a hote raging spirite to defie it and to saye that themselues be the Catholike Churche and that the Catholikes be the Papisticall Churche the Churche of Antichrist the where of 〈◊〉 a deune of Theeues and I can not tell what The Answeare by the Bishop of Sarisburie TO answeare M. Hardinge to euery parcel of his Booke beinge so longe it would be too tedious Wherefore leauinge many his impertinent speaches other vnnecessarie and waste woordes whiche sundrie his frendes thinke he might better haue spared I wil touche onely so mutche thereof as shal beare somme shewe of substance may any way seeme woorthy to be answeared Firste touchynge the Churche of God we beleue and confesse al that M. Hardinge hath here saide or otherwise can be saide It is the Piller of the Truthe the Body the Fulnesse and Spouse of Christe Al these woordes are vndoubtedly true and certaine And therefore M. Hardinge you are the more blamewoorthy that of the House of God beyng so glorious haue made a caue of Théeues haue turned the beutie of Sion into the confusion of Babylon True it is that Heretiques haue euermore apparelled them selues with the name of the Churche as Antichriste also shal procure him selfe credite vnder the name of Christe Thus did your Fathers M. Harding loÌ„ge agoe They saide then euen as you say now We are the Children of Abraham we are the Euheretours of Goddes promises we haue the Temple of God the Temple of God The Lawe shal neuer passe froÌ„ the Prieste nor counsel from the wise nor the woorde from the prophete Thus coutinuinge wilfully in the open breache of Goddes commaundement neuerthelesse they chearished them selues then as you doo nowe onely with the bare title of the Churche in whose name what so euer credit ye can any wise winne your meaninge is skilfully to conueigh the same ouer wholy to the Churche of Rome as if that Churche onely were the Churche of God without that there were no hope of Saluation And therefore you defende and holde for trueth that your Churche hath authoritie aboue Goddes Woorde And Pope Nicolas saithe Who so denieth the Priuilege and Supremacie of the See of Rome hath renounced the Faithe and is an Heretique And thus as Leo saithe Ecclesiae nomine armamini contra Ecclesiam dimicatis Ye arme your selues with the name of the Churche and yet ye fight against the Churche Likewise saithe S. Cyprian Diabolus excogitauit nouam fraudem vt sub ipso nominis Christiani titulo fallat incautos The Diuel hath diuised a new kinde of policie vnder the very title of the name of Christe to deceiue the simple Nowe concerninge that hote raginge Sprite wherewith M. Hardinge saithe the Gospellers deste the Churche and set it at naught verily I thinke it a harde matter for any Gospeller be he neuer so hote in suche kinde of eloquence to matche M. Hardinge Neither yet maye he wel condemne al suche as in the like cases haue bene hote earnest Esay the Prophete saithe O ye Princes of Sodome and ye people of Gomorrha Iohn the Baptist saithe to the Scribes and Phariseis O ye Serpentes ye generation of Vipers and Adders Christe saithe vnto them Woe be vnto you ye Scribes and Phariseis ye hypocrites Ye are of your Father the Diuel In these eramples wée sée the Sprite of God can sometimes be hote and earnest against the deceiuers of the people and the professed enimies of the Crosse of Christe Neither did either Esay the Prophete or Iohn the Baptiste or Christe desie the Churche of God and set it at naught as M. Hardinge imagineth of vs but rather by these seruent speaches vttered the vehement zele and iuste griefe they had conceiued against them that vnder the name of the Churche abused Goddes people and defaced the Churche For they are not al Heretiques M. Hardinge that this daie espie your grosse and palpable errours and mourne to God for reformation S. Augustine saithe Non debet Ouis pellem suam deponere quâ—d Lupi aliquando se ea contegant It is no reason the Sheepe should therefore leaue of his fliese for that he seeth the Woulfe sometime in the same apparel Likewise it is no reason that wée should therfore geue ouer the right and enheritance wée haue in the Churche of God for that you by intrusion and vniuste meanes haue intituled your selues vnto the same It behooueth vs rather to searche the Scriptures as Christe hath aduised vs thereby to assure our selues of the Churche of God For by this trial onely and by none other it maye be knowen Therfore S. Paule calleth the Churche the Spouse of Christe for that she ought in al thinges to geue eare to the voice of the Bridegrooms Likewise he calleth the Churche the Piller of the Truthe for that shée staieth her selfe onely by the Woorde of God Without whiche Woorde yâ— Churche were it neuer so bewtiful should be no Churche The Ancient Father Irenaeus saithe Columna firmamentum Ecclesiae est Euangelium Spritus vitae
thinges wel done vpon very good reason For shortely to saie the truthe these folke falsely accuse and sclaunder al our dooinges yea the same thinges which they them selues cannot denie but to be rightly and orderly donne and for malice doo so misconstrue and depraue al our saienges and dooings as though it were impossible that any thinge could be rightly spoken or donne by vs. They should more plainely sincerely haue gonne to woorke if they would haue dealte truely But nowe they neither truely nor sincerely nor yet Christianly but darkely and craftily charge and batter vs with lies and doe abuse the blindenesse and fondenesse of the people togeather with the ignorance of Princes to cause vs to be hated and the Truthe to be suppressed This lo ye is the power of darkenesse and of men whiche leane more to the amased wonderinge of the rude multitude and to darkenesse then they doo to Truthe Light and as S. Hierome saithe doo openly gainsaie the Truthe closinge vp theire eies and wil not see for the nonce But we geue thankes to the most good and mighty God that sutche is our cause where against when they would fainest they were hable to vtter no despite but the same whiche might as wel be wreasted against the Holy Fathers against the Prophetes against the Apostles against Peter against Paule and against Christe him selfe M. Hardinge The Catholikes doo not burden you with ought wherein by their owne iudgementes they condemne themselues as ye sclaunder them not onely here but oftentimes in your Booke For if they iudged otherwise they would not wittingly do against their iudgemente That is the special propertie of an Heretike whom S. Paule hiddeth al men to a voide knowinge that he that is suche is peruerted and seemeth euen condemned by his owne iudgement They shewe bothe your blasphemous Heresies and your wicked actes Luther ye knowe powred out his Heresies and villanies c. Your robbinge of Churches persecutinge of men for standinge sâ—edfastly in the faithe of the Holy forefathers your incestuous mariages of Monkes Friers and Nonnes your breache of solemne vowes for fleashly pleasure your prophaninge and abandoninge of Holy Sacramentes your contempt of auncient and godly ordinaunces and discipline of the Churche and suche other thinges of like estimation For in deede the catholikes doo persecute you if suche deserued entreatinge of euill persons maye be called persecution and al good folk besides wee grâ—â—te and shal so doe so longe as they love the Truthe and keepe them in the vnitie of the Churche Yet with no other minde doo they persecuâ—e you then Sara did Agar then Christ the Iewes whom he whipt out of the Temple then â—eter did Sâ—nom Magus The B. of Sarisburie Yewis M. Hardinge it might please you to remember that Bartholomaeus Latomus a Doctour of your side confesseth in writinge to al the worlde yâ— our request touchinge the Holy Ministration vnder Bothe Kindes accordinge to Christes first Institution is iuste and reasonable That Gerardus Lorichius an other of your owne side saithe Sunt Pseâ—docatholici qui Reformationem Ecclesiae quoquo modo remorari non verentur They be false Catholiques and this M. Hardinge he speaketh of you beinge one of your owne they be False Catholiques that hinder the Reformation of the Churche by al meanes they be hable He saithe you be false Catholiques far contrary to the common opinion and concludeth in the ende that the wilful mainteinance and sequel of your Doctrine in this pointe is as he calleth it Haeresis Blasphemia pestilens execrabilis An Heresie and a Blayhemie against God Pestilent and Cursed That others of your â—de confesse that this your vse of Ministration vnder one kinde whiche nowe ye cal Catholique began first not of Christe or his Apostles or any Ancient Learned Father but onely of the errour or as he better termeth it of the simple Deuotion of the People That Albertus Pighius the stoutest gallante of al your Campe graunteth there haue benne and be many Abuses in your Passe notwithstandinge ye haue tolde vs far otherwise That Pope Pius oftentimes graunted and vsed commonly to saie He sawe great causes why Priestes shoulde be restoared to the libertie of Mariage That Pope Adrian by his Legate Cheregatus confessed openly at Norenherg in the General Diet of al the Princes of Germanie that al the il of the Churche came firste à culmine Pontificio From the toppe Castle of the Pope And to be short M. Hardinge it might haue pleased you to remember that your selfe in your first Booke in the Defence of your Priuate Passe haue written thus Mary I denie not but that it were more commendable and more Godly on the Churches Parte if many well disposed and examined woulde be partakers of the blessed Sacramente with the Prieste Al these thinges M. Hardinge be they â—ses or Abuses Reasonable or Vnreasonable Right or Wronge Better or woorse Be they neuer so wicked neuer so Blasphemous neuer so cursed yet be they stoutly defended stil and no hope offered of amendement With what Conscience of your parte he onely sâ—eth that sâ—eth the Conscience You graunte ye persecute your brethren where ye haue the Swerd and maye persecute but as Sara did Agar as Christe did the Iewes and not otherwise Verily M. Hardinge that Christe or Sara were persecutours I haue not greatly heard But I remember Chrysostome saithe thus Nunquid Ouis Lupum persequitur aliquando Non sed Lupus ouem Sic enim Caim persecutus est Abel non Abel Caim Sic Ismael persecutus est Isaac non Isaac Ismael Sic Iudaei Christum non Christus Iudaeos Haeretici Christianos non Christiani Haeresicos Ergo ex fructibus corum cognoscetis eos What doothe the Sheepe perscute the Woulfe at any time No but the Woulfe doothe persecute the Sheepe For so Caim persecuted Abel not Abel Caim So Ismael persecuted Isaac not Isaac Ismael So the Iewes persecuted Christe not Christe the Iewes So the Heretiques persequute the Christians not the Christiaus the Heretiques 〈◊〉 ye shal knowe them by their fruites S. Augustine saithe Non eo modo persecutionem passi sunt Pseudoprophetae ab Elia quomodo ipse Elias à Rege nequissimo Neither were the Palse Prophetes so persecuted by Elias as Elias was persecuted by the wicked Kinge Surely Chrysostome saithe Quem videris in sanguine persequutionis gaudentem Lupus est Whome so euer ye see â—eioicinge in the Bloudde of persequution he is the VVoulfe But yée pretende greate good wil and saye Ye persecute and murder your Brethren for Loue as Christe persequuted the Iewes So I trowe Aristophancs saithe Philippides tooke a cudgel and beatte his Father and al for loue How be it M. Hardinge neither are you armed as Christe was armed nor was Christe armed as you are armed I must saye to you as S. Augustine saithe vnto the Heretiques the
Supreme aboue al other auctoritie in Earthe touchinge the gouernement of the Churche yet was it neuer saide ne thought by the Catholiques that al Religion depended onely thereon as your sclaunderous reporte beareth menne in hande The B. of Sarisburie Lanfrancus Euimondus Abbas Cluniacensis Thomas Waldensis Iohn Fisher and other your like Doctours M. Hardinge are ouer yonge al within the space of this laste fiue hundred yéeres far vnlike S. Augustine S. Hierome S. Ambrose S. Chrysostome and others the Ancient Learned Fathers Doctours of the Churche Neither is there any sufficient cause to the contrarie but that Berengarius Iohn Wicklefe Iohn Hus Doctour Luther Zwinglius Oecolampadius others either for Learninge or for Truthe or for Iudgement in the Scriptures or for Antiquitie maye wel safely be compared with them At the least I hope wée maye saie of them as S. Augustine once saide of the Doctours Fathers of his time Neque quorumliber Disputationes quamuis Catholicorum laudatorum hominum velut Scripturas Canonicas habere debemus vt nobis non liceat salua honorificentia quae illis debetur aliquid in eorum Scriptis improbare aut respuere si fortè inuenerimus quòd aliter selfserint quà m Veritas habet Neither weigh wee the writinges of al meane be they neuer so woorthy and Catholique as wee weighe the Canonical Scriptures but that sauinge the reuerence that is dewe vnto them we maye wislike and refuse somewhat in their writinges if we happen to finde that they haue thought otherwise then the Truthe maye beare Likewise the Councelles ye meane are very Newe therefore beare the lesse authoritie for that they be so many waies contrary to the Olde Hereof hereafter more at large Certainely there is none of your errours so grosse and palpable but by some of your late Councelles it hath benne confirmed Therefore wee maye iustly saie to you as S. Augustine sometime saide to Mariminus the Arian Heretique Nec ego Nicenam Synodum tibi nec tu mihi Ariminensem debes tanquam praeiudicaturus obijcere Scripturarum Authoritatibus res cum re causa cum causa ratio cuÌ„ ratione conceuer Neither maye I saye to thee the Councel of Nice nor maiste thou laye to mee the Councel of Ariminum either of vs thinkinge thereby to finde preuidice against the other But let vs laye mater to mater cause to cause and reason to reason by the Authoritie of the Scriptures Ye graunte there is more lighte and knowledge nowe then was before The greatter is either your faulte or your folie M. Hardinge that in the broade daye open Lighte so busily set foorthe the woorkes of darkenesse S. Chrysostome saithe Hic est multò impudentior Ex furibus enim leges eos grauiùs puniunt qui interdiu furantur He is very shamelesse that woorketh deceite in the open Lighte For of al Theeues the Lawe moste sharpely punisheth them that robbe in the daye time Therefore S. Cyprian saithe vnto you Ignosci poruit simpliciter erranti Post inspirationem verò reuelationem factam qui in eo quod errauerat perseuerat prudens sciens sine venia ignorantiae peccat Praesumptione enim atque obstinatione superatur He that is deceiued and erieth of simplicitie maye be pordoned But after that the Truthe is once reueled who so continueth neuerthelesse in his former errour witingly and willingly sinneth without pardonne of ignorance as beinge ouercome by presumption and wilfulnesse You saie not withstandinge al this greate Light wée talke of yet our liues are nothinge comparable to the liues of them that haue benne before vs. This M. Hardinge hathe euer benne an olde complainte in al ages as maye appeare by S. Cyprian S. Augustine and other Ancient Fathers It was a common Prouerbe in olde times 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Thinges a yéere paste are euermore better then thinges presente For euery thinge to vs séemeth the greatter as it séemeth nearest to touche our senses And bicause wée féele not our Fathers euilles therefore wée imagine they had no euil at al. The wise man saithe Ne dixeris quae causa est quòd priora tempora meliora fuerint quà m praesentia Stulta enim est huiusmodi interrogatio Neuer demaunde wherefore the times paste were better then the times presente For in deede it is a foolishe question But M. Hardinge wherefore doo you thus condemne our liues in respecte of our Fathers Certainely you must néedes confesse there are fewer blasphemies fewer Othes fewer breaches of Matrimonie fewer Stewes fewer Concubines fewer Fraies fewer Murthers emongst vs this daie then commonly were at any time emonge our Fathers How be it to let our Fathers passe if it shal please you to laye our liues to your liues although we acknowledge many our imperfections yet Goddes name be blessed wee haue no cause to flee the comparison The Popes woordes you saie were neuer taken for Gospel Yes M. Hardinge and somewhat also aboue the Gospel For proufe whereof it maye please you to remember the woordes of certaine your late Doctours Syluester Prieriâs late Maâ—sâ—ter of Pope Leoes Palaice writeth thus Indulgentiae authoritate Scripturae non innotuere nobis sed authoritate Ecclesiae Romanae Romanorumque Pontificum quae maior est Pardonnes are not warrented vnto vs by the authoritie of Goddes Woorde but by the authoritie of the Romaine Churche and of the Bishoppes of Rome whiche is more then Goddes VVoorde Yf this be not sufficient he addeth farther A doctrina Romanae Ecclesiae Romani Pontificis Sacra Scriptura robur authbritatem trahit The Hosy Scripture taketh strength and authoritie of the Doctrine of the Bishop and Churche of Rome Cardinal Cusanus entituleth his Booke De authoritate Ecclesiae Councilij supra contra Scripturam Of the Authoritie of the Churche and Councel aboue and against the Scripture Your greatest Doctour Albertus Pigghius saithe Apostoli quaedam conscripserunt non vt scripta illa praessene Fidei Religioni nostrae sed potius vt subessent The Apostles wrote certaine thinges not to the ende that sutche willinges shoulde he ouer our Faithe and Religion but rather that they shoulde be vnder Your Canonistes saie a Papa potest dispensare coÌ„ira ius Diuinum The Pope maye dispense against the Lawe of God Papa potest dispensare contra Ius Naturae The Pope maye dispense against the Lawe of Nature Papa potest dispensare contra Apostolum The Pope maye dispense against S. Pause the Apostle Papa porest dispensare contra Nouum Testamentum The Pope maye dispense againste the Newe Testamente Papa potest dispensare de omnibus praeceptis veteris Noui Testamenti The Pope maye dispense with al the CommauÌ„dementes bothe of the Olde and also of the Newe Testamente Hereof more hereafter as farther occasion shal be offered These be your owne Doctours woordes M. Hardinge they be truely reported they be
in thinges necessarie That sinnes can not either be remitted or reteined excepte the Prieste knowe them we are bolde so to saye with the Fathers and specially with S. Hierome who so vnderstoode the woordes of Christe where he promised the Keies of the Kingedome of Heauen to Peter Sacerdos pro officio suo cùm peccatorum audierit Varietates scit qui ligandus sit qui Soluendus The Prieste saithe he when as accordinge to his office he hath hearde the diuersities of sinnes knoweth who is to be bounde who is to be loosed Right so as in the time of Moses lawe he pronounced not who was cleane of Lepre who was not before that he had vewed the colour the bunches and al other tokens of that disease And thus it foloweth of the woordes of Christe that Confession of al Sinnes at leaste deadly muste be made to the Prieste before they can be remitted VVhiche Prieste is the Minister of this Sacramente and hath auctoritie to absolue either Ordinarie or by Commission of the Superiour Againe for proufe that Confession is necessarie wee sate that to remitte and reteine sinnes committed againste God as to binde and to loose be iudicial actes And therefore by these woordes Christe ordeined a Courte a Consistorie a seate of Iudgemente in the Churche and appointed the Apostles and their Successours to be Iudges And that this maye appeare not to be a fantasie of our owne heades S. Augustine so expoundeth those woordes of S. Iohn in his Reuelation Et vidi ledes c. And I sawe seates and some sittinge on them and iudgement was geuen VVe muste not thinke â—aithe he this to be spoken of the laste iudgement but we muste vnderstande the Seates of the Rulers and the Rulers themselues by whome nowe the Churche is gouerned And as for the Iudgement geuen it semeth not to be taken for any other then for that whereof it was saide VVhat thinges yee binde in Earthe they shal be bouÌ„de also in Heauen and what thinges ye loose on Earthe they shal be loosed also in Heauen Sundrie other Fathers haue vttered in their writinges the same Doctrine Hilarius vpon the sixtenth Chapter of Matthewe saithe Beatus Coeli ianitor c. Blessed is the Porter of Heauen whose earthly iudgement that is to saie whiche is geuen here on Earthe is a foreiudged auctoritie in Heauen that what thinges be bounde or loosed in Earthe they haue the condition of the same Statute also in Heauen S. Cyprian hath the like sayinge in an Epistle to Cornelius Chrysostome saithe that Christe hath translated al iudgemente whiche he receiued of the Father vnto the Apostles and Priestes Gregorie Nazianzene in an Oration to the Emperour and his Princes saithe to the Emperour Ouis mea es nos habemus Tribunalia Thou arte my Sheepe and we haue our seates of iudgement S. Gregorie the Pope compareth the Sacrament of Penaunce with a courte of Iustice in which causes be first examined and tried and afterwarde Iudged That the same is to be donne by the Prieste S. Bernarde sheweth VVho as also the learned Father Hugo de S. Victore be not afraide to saie after S. Cyprian Hilarie and Chrysostome that the sentence of Peter remittinge Sinnes goeth before the sentence of Heauen This Ordinance of Christe requireth that al. Trespasses Offences Disorders Transgressions and Sinnes committed against him and his Lawes be referred to this Consistorie VVhether these Defenders allowe Publike Confession or no we knowe not but whereas they inueigh against Priuate Confession and saie in spiteful woordes which they haue learned in the Schole of Satan beinge lothe the Sinnes of the People whereby he holdeth his Kingdome shoulde be remitted that Christes Disciples receiued not the auctoritie of the Keies that they shoulde heare priuate Confessions of the People and listen to their whisperinges VVe tel them that Confession of al deadly Sinnes is of the Institution of God not of Man But concerninge the maner of confessinge secretely to a Prieste alone it is moste agreable to Natural Reason that secrete Sinnes be confessed secretely Clement amongest those thinges that he acknowledgeth him selfe to haue receiued of Peter this is One as he writeth in his firste Epistle translated by Rufine the Prieste That if it fortune either enuie or Infidelitie priuely to crepe into any mans harte or any other like euil he whiche regardeth his Soule be not ashamed to confesse those thinges to him that is in Office ouer him to the ende that by him through the woorde of God and holesome counsel he maye be healed So as by perfite Faithe and good woorkes he maye escape the paines of euerlastinge fire and come to the rewardes of Life that endureth for euer No man speaketh more plainely of Secrete Confession then Origen and that in sundry places to whiche for Breuities sake I remitte the Reader In. 2. Ca. Leuitici Homil. 2. De Principijs Lib. 3. In Psal 37. Homil. 2. VVhere he compareth the state of a sinner to a man that hath euil and vndigested humours in his Stomake And saithe that as by remaininge of suche euil matter the man feleth him selfe very sicke and by vomitinge of it foorthe he is eased so the sinner by keepinge his sinnes secrete is the more greuousely charged in his owne conscience and standeth in daunger to be choked with the Fleume and humour of his sinnes But if he accuse him selfe and confesse his faultes he bothe vomiteth foorthe his sinnes and digesteth the cause of the same S. Cyprian as in many other places so moste plainely speaketh of Secrete Confession Sermone 5. de lapsis Although saithe he of certaine deuoute persons they be entangled with no greate Sinne yet because at leaste they thought of it the same vnto the Priestes of God Confesse they sorowfully and simply They make Confession of their Conscience they laie foorthe the burthen of their minde c. S. Augustine treatinge of the Power of the Keies in many places but specially of Confession in Psal 60. VVhere speakinge muche of the necessitie of Confession he saithe thus VVhy fearest thou to be Confessed If not beinge Confessed thou remaine hidden not beinge Confessed thou shalt be damned And afterwardes thus To this ende God requireth Confession to deliuer the humble to this ende he damneth him that confesseth not to punishe the Proude Therefore be thou sorie before thou be Confessed beinge Confessed Reioyse thou shalt be hole By these and many other Holy Fathers of whome there is no doubte but they had the Holy Ghoste for their Teacher and prompter of al Truthe the Catholike Churche hath benne persuaded that the recital and rehersinge of al sinnes before the Prieste is necessarie to Saluation onlesse necessitie for lacke of a Prieste or other wise exclude vs from it and that a General Confession in no wise suffiseth True Faithe acknowlegeth that Confession is to be made of al â— Sinnes
Children ouersee theire house and geue no occasion to the aduersarie to speake il If these woordes of S. Paule muste déedes be taken of Vowes and none otherwise why doo you so violently contrarie to S. Paules commaundemente either force or suffer yonge Maides and girles to receiue these Vowes Why doo ye not staie them vntil they be striken in age that they maie be thréescore yeeres Olde before they Vowe It is no reason ye should in one place claime by one Woorde and breake so many You saie The Vowe of Chastitie is annexed vnto Holy Orders by the Ancient Constitution of the Churche and by the Apostles of Christe For trial of your truthe herein I beséeche you to consider these sewe in stéede of many Your owne allowed and principal Doctour Gratian saithe thus Copula Sacerdotalis vel consanguineorum nec Legali nec Euangelica nec Apostolica authoritate prohibetur Priestes marriage is not forebidden by any Authoritie either of the Lavve of Moses or of the Gospel or of the Apostles Clemens Alexandrinus saithe Omnes Apostoli Epistolae quae moderationem docent continentiam cùm de Matrimonio de Liberorum procreatione de domus administratione innumerabilia praecepta contineant nunquam tamen honestum moderatumque Matrimonium prohibuerunt Al the Epistles of the Apostle whiche teache sobrietie and continente life whereas they conteine innumerable Preceptes touchinge Matrimonie bringinge vp of Children and gouernemente of House yet they neuer forebade Honeste and sober Marriage Carâ—inal Caictanus saithe Nec ratione nec authoritate probari potest quòd absolutè loquendo Sacerdos peccet contrahendo Matrimonium Nam nec Ordo in quantum Ordo nec Ordo in quantum Sacer est impeditiuus Matrimonij Siquidem Sacerdotium non dirimit Matrimonium contractum siue antè siue pòst seclusis omnibus Legibus Ecclesiasticis stando tantùm ijs quae habemus à Christo Apostolis It cannot be proued neither by reason nor by Authoritie speakinge absolutely that a Prieste sinneth in marrieinge a wife For neither the Order of Priesthoode in that it is Order nor the same Order in that it is Holy is any hinderance to Matrimonie For Priesthoode breaketh not Marriage whether it be contracted before Priesthoode or aftervvarde settinge al Ecclisiastical Lawes aparte and standinge onely vnto those thinges that vvee haue of Christe and his Apostles Abbate Panormitane saithe Continentia non est de Substantia Ordinis nec de Iure Diuino Single life is not of the substance of the Order of Priesthoode nor of the Lavve of God Likewise Antoninus saithe Episcopatus ex Natura sua non habet opponi ad Matrimonium The office or Degree of a Bishop of the Substance of Nature of it selfe is not contrarie to Matrimonie Hereby ye maie easily sée M. Hardinge howe true it is that you saie The Vowe of Chastitie is annexed to Holy Orders and that by the Apostles Ancient Constitution But this Order you saie was taken for that hauinge the vse of Wedlocke wée cannot Praie And to that ende ye allege the Authoritie of S. Paule Where also ye might haue alleged the names and saieinges of sundrie Fathers Origen saithe The Holy Ghoste in time of Copulation forsaketh a man yea although he were the Prophete of God An other saithe Virginitas Sola potest animas hominum praesentare Deo Onely Virginitie is hable to presente the Soule of man vnto God S. Hierome saith Quotiescunque vxori debitum reddo orare non possum As often as I doo my duetie to my wife I cannot Praie And to this pourpose Pope Siricius vndiscretely fondely abuseth the Holy Woorde of God Thus he saithe Qui in Carne sunt Deo placere non possunt They that be in the Pleashe cannot please God These woordes séeme very harde sounde mutche to the derogation of Goddes Ordinance And therefore Ignatius S. Iohns Scholare saithe Si quis Legitimam Commixtionem Filiorum procreationem Corruptionem Coinquinationem vocat ille habet cohabitatorem Daemonem Apostatam If any man calle lawful Copulation and Begeattinge of Children Corruption and Filthinesse he hath the Diuel that felle from God dvvellinge vvithin him In like manner saie the Learned godly Bishoppes in the Councel of Gangra Si quis discernit Presbyterum Coniugatum tanquam occasione nuptiarum quòd offerre non debeat ab eius Oblatione abstinet Anathema sit If any man make difference of a Married Prieste as if he maie not Minister the Oblation or Holy Communion bicause of his Marriage and absteineth from his Oblation accursed be he Likewise it is written in the Councel of Constantinople Si quis praesumpserit contra Apostolicos Canones aliquos Presbyterorum DiaconoruÌ„ priuare à Contactu Communione legalis vxoris suae Deponatur Similiter Presbyter aut Diaconus qui Religionis causa Vxorem suam expellit excommunicetur If any man contrarie to the Apostles Canons presume to remooue either Prieste or Deacon from the vse and Companie of his lavvful vvife let him be depriued And in like manner let the prieste or Deacon be excommunicate that putteth avvaie his vvife vnder the colour of Religion As touchinge the place of S. Paule Defraude not your selues One an Other Onlesse it be of consente for a season that ye maie attende vnto Fastinge and Praier He speaketh not this of that kinde of Praier that is commonly daiely vsed of al the Faitheful as wel Married as Vnmarried but onely of the General Solemne Praier of the whole Congregation whiche then as in time of Persecution and feare of enimies was keapte onely in the night and al the whole multitude of the Faitheful was charged to be presente at the same At whiche times it was necessarie that bothe the man and the wife should leaue the one the others companie and resorte to Praier So it is written in the Prophete Ioel Blowe vp the Trumpe in Sion Proclaime a solemne Faste Cal togeather a Congregation of the People Let the Breedegroome leaue his bedde Let the Spouse comme from her Chamber Let the Priestes the Ministers of God weepe bitweene the Entire and the Aultar And let them saie O Lorde spare thy people and geue not ouer thine Enheritance vnto Confusion Of the like kinde of General and Solemne Praier Tertullian saithe thus Quis Solennibus Paschae abnoctantem Vxorem securus sustinebit What man beinge an Heathen can without mistruste suffer his Wife beinge a Christian Woman to be awaie from him at the Solemnitie of the Easter Praier Of sutche Solemne and Seldome méetinges S. Paule speaketh and not of the Daiely Vsual and Common Praiers of al Christians Otherwise touchinge the Puritie and Holinesse of Married people S. Augustine saithe Quòd Paulus ait Quae innupta est cogitat ea quae sunt DnÌ„i vt sit sancta Corpore Spiritu non
Pambus and many other Holy men liuinge in VVildernesse without letters no reste ne quiet at their hartes Nay who had the like And whereas you saie that al thinges needeful for our Saluation be abundantly and fully cōprehended in the Scriptures this is also as false as sundry other partes of your Doctrine For if al thinges necessary to Saluation be conteined in the Scriptures then what so euer is not in them conteined the same is not necessarie If not necessarie why shoulde we be laden with vnnecessarie burdens Then awaie with al Traditions at a clappe be they neuer so Apostolike neuer so Auncient neuer so Healthful neuer so longe time in the Churche continued Remember you not what the moste renoumed Fathers haue written of the necessitie of Traditions Or if you remember them what thought you when you wrote thus Let Learned and Holy Basil be hearde in steede of many if not to reuoke you from your errour yet to discredite you and staye others in the truthe His woordes be these Of the doctrines whiche be preached in the Churche certaine we haue out of the Scripture written certaine we haue receiued in secrete Mistery by tradition of the Apostles whiche bothe be of equal force to Godlines Neither concerninge these any man gainesaieth be he of neuer so smal knowledge For if we goe about to reiect the customes that be not set foorth in writinge as beinge of litle regarde then shal we condemne those thinges also whiche we haue in the Gospel necessarie to Saluation Yea rather we shal bringe the preachinge of the Faithe but to a bare name For so they were taken for Heretikes whiche regarded not the solemne faste of Lente receiued at the Apostles as we reade in S. Augustine De Haer. ad Quoduultdeum cap. 53. and in the Councel of Gangra in an Epistle to the Bishops of Armenia Euen so they whiche denied the distinction of a Bishop and a Prieste were condemned of Heresie as we finde in S. Augustine in the Booke and Chapter aforesaide and in Epiphanius Lib. 3. Cap. 75. In the Councel of Constance the same is to be founde Againe if al thinges necessarie to Saluation be expressed in the Scriptures to what purpose saide S. Paule concerninge order and maner to be vsed at the celebration of the holy Sacramente Coetera cùm venero disponam As for other thinges I wil take Order for them when I come VVhat meaneth S. Iohn to saye Hauinge other thinges to write to you of I woulde not write them in Paper and inke for I truste to be with you and speake to you mouthe to mouthe To conclude muche that might be obiected in fewe woordes for breuities sake what saie you sir Defender shal we finde al thinges necessarie to Saluation in the Scripture Howe thinke you of the Scripture it selfe How knowe you this to be the Scripture How knowe ye the Gospel of Mathewe Marke Luke and Iohn to be theirs whose names they beare This can you not finde in al the Scripture and yet is the same necessary to be beleeued VVhat Scripture have you to admitte these and to refuse the Booke bearinge the name of Peter the Gospel of Thomas of Bartholome we of Nicodeme VVhy admitte you not the Prophetes that Basilides would to be allowed but onely the foure greate and the twelue lesser what auctoritie haue you to staie your selfe by concerninge these but onely that of the Churche for Scripture haue you none for proufe hereof Then hath not Scripture al thinges in it necessarie for a Christen man Is it not necessarie to beleeue the Sonne of God to be Homousion that is to saie of the same Substance with the Father whiche if you denie you restore the olde condemned Heresie of the Arians The same can you not finde in the Scripture VVhere in al the Bible finde you that God the Father is Ingenitus VVhere finde you that the Holy Ghoste proceedeth frō the Father and the Sonne that the blessed Virgin Marie continued in her Virginitie that suche as be Baptized of Heretikes oughte to be Baptized againe That in fantes ought to be Baptized That the Foure Bookes of the Gospels were written by Mathewe Marke Luke and Iohn by what Scripture can you prooue it To ende where finde you expressely in al the Scriptures three Persons to be one God The B. of Sarisburie Here to weighe downe the Authoritie of Goddes Holy Woorde M. Hardinge hath brought in a heape of ordinarie stale quarrelles Of the difference bitwéene Priestes and Bishoppes of Lente of the Communion Booke of the Homilies of the Order of Seruice and of the Perpetual Virginitie of Our Lady His whole drifte herein is to beare vs in hande that there is very litle or none Authoritie in the Scriptures and that the whole Credite and certainetie of our Faithe resteth onely in the Churche of Rome He seemeth to take it in scorne that the Woorde of God shoulde be called the Light Yet notwithstandinge the Prophete Dauid saithe Thy Woorde is a Lanterne to my feete And againe The Commaundement of the Lorde is Lightsome geeuing Light vnto the eies And Theophylacte saith Verbum Dei est Lucerna qua Fur deprehenditur The Woorde of God is the Candel whereby ther Theefe or false Teacher is espied Whereas M. Hardinge demaundeth of vs so pleasauntly what Scriptures we allowe and what wée reiecte he troubleth him selfe with an idle and a néedelesse question For we embrace and reuerence euery parcel and title of the Scriptures without exception not refusinge any parte thereof that hath benne allowed by the Ancient Learned Catholique Fathers of the Churche of God Neither doo wee so scornefully calle Goddes Holy Woorde a Nose of vvaxe a Shipmannes Hose or a Dead letter as sundrie of that side haue delited to cal it Touchinge the Booke of the Machabees wee saie nothinge but that we finde written by S. Hierome S. Augustine other Holy Fathers S. Hierome saithe Machabaeorum Libros legit quidem Ecclesia Sed eos inter Canonicas Scripturas non recipit In deede the Churche readeth the Bookes of the Machabees but shee receiueth them not emonge the Canonical allovved Scriptures Or Praier for y◠Dead wee shal haue place more conuenient to speake hereafter The place of S. Iames touchinge the Iustification of Faithe Woorkes is answeared before Neither doo wee discredite any parte either of the Authoritie or of the Doctrine of that whole Epistle notwithstandinge Eusebius saithe It was written by somme other and not by S. Iames. His woordes be these Istius Iacobi qui lustus Oblias vocabatur dicitur esse Epistola quae prima scribitur inter Canonicas Sciendum autem est illam Epistolam esse Spuriam The Opinion is that the Epistle whiche is reckened the firste emonge the Canonicalles is of this Iames whiche was called Iustus and Oblias But wee muste vnderstande that
stil the Substance of Breade and Nature of VVine The Substance and Nature of Breade are not changed The selfe same Breade as touchinge the Material Substance goeth into the bely and is caste out into the priuie Or that Christe the Apostles Holy Fathers praied not in that tongue whiche the people might vnderstande Or that Christe hath not perfourmed al thinges by that one offeringe whiche he once offered vpon the Crosse Or that the same Sacrifice was Vnperfite so that now we haue neede of an other M. Hardinge VVhat crake ye of a good parte of the VVorlde The greater is the number of those ye haue seduced the more greeuous shal be your iudgement There be not yet many yeeres paste that ye boasted of your poore small flocke alludinge to the fewnesse of the Flocke that liued with Christe in Fleashe and made their fewnesse an argumente of the sincere Truthe But nowe that through your euil teachinge the worlde groweth more to be dissolute and wicked ye boast of your number This is certaine touchinge groundes of truthe the Churche erreth not as that whiche enioyeth Christes promise and your Congregation teachinge the contrary muste therefore be taken for the Children of the Father of Lies Though tenne or twenty Masses were not saide in one daie by Christe the Apostles or Fathers as ye scoffe when the Faithe was firste Preached and fewe beleued no Churches whiche here not without prophane malice ye name Temples yet beinge builie this is no sufficient reason why we maie not nowe where the Faithe is generally receiued haue sundry Masses in one Churche in one daie Ye make muche a doo about bothe Kindes and to aggrauate the matter ye vse the odious terme of bannishinge the people from the Cuppe VVe teache the people for good causes to be contente with one Kinde doinge them to vnderstande they receiue the whole Body of Christe Fleashe and Bloude no lesse then if they receiued Bothe Kindes The Sacriledge whiche Gelasius speaketh of consisteth in diuidinge Christe and the same he imputeth to the Manichees as I haue an other where declared And therefore as that toucheth not vs who doo not diuide Christe but in the Sacramente geue to the people whole Christe so it sheweth you to be either sclaunderous or ignorant As for the tongue of the Churche Seruice how so euer Christe the Apostles and Holy Fathers praied the vse of the Latine tongue vsed in the Seruice of the Latine Churche is not by any reason or Auctoritie ye can bringe yet so farre disproued that the Churche ought to condemne the order from the beginninge receiued and hitherto continewed The B. of Sarisburie Wée make no crakes of our numbers M. Hardinge but humbly géeue God thankes that maugre al your practises and policies hath published and proclaimed the name of his Sonne in euery place through the worlde The foorth and force thereof greeueth you nowe as it did others your Fathers before you that cried out in an agonie What shal wee doo Al the worlde renneth after him Of them S. Cyril saithe Quicquid Christo credentium accesserit sibi detractum putant As many Faitheful Beleeuers as are gotten to Christe so many they thinke are loste from the selues Notwithstandinge the Truthe of God hangeth neither of many nor of fewe Liberius the Bishop of Rome saide sometime to the Arian Emperour Constantius Non si ego solus sum idcircò minor est ratio Fidei Although I be alone yet the accoumpte of Faithe is therefore no white the lesse Christe compareth the Kingedome of God vnto a peece of Leauen whiche beinge litle in quantitie the woman taketh and laiethe in a greate Lumpe of dough vntil the whole be al Leauened Chrysostome saithe Nemo paucitatem vestram deploret Magna enim est virtus Praedicationis Et quod semel fermentatum est rursus fermentum ad coetera efficitur Let noman bewaile the smal number of you For greate is the Vertue of Preachinge And who so is once Leauened is him selfe made Leauen to Leauen others It is noted in the Glose vpon the Clementines Veritas pedetentim cognoscitur Truthe is knowen by Litle and by Litle And S. Ambrose Constat Diluuium eodem numero quo cumulatum est esse diminutum It is knowen that the â—loudde in the time of Noe as it grewe by degrees so by degrees it abated Origen saithe Ego concitabo eos in non Gentem Nos sumus non Gens qui pauci ex ista Ciuitate credimus alij ex alia Et nusquam Gens integra ab initio credulitatis videtur assumpta I shal prouoke them by them that are no people VVee are they that were no people that Beleeue in Christe a fewe in this Cittie and a fewe in an other And neuer was there any Nation that was taken whole at the first beginninge of the Faithe The meaninge hereof is this that God calleth menne not al togeather but nowe a fewe nowe moe as vnto his secrete wisedome séemeth beste So is it writen in the late Councel of Basile Spiritus Sanctus non illuminat omnes eodem tempore Sed vbi vult quando vult spirat The Holy Ghoste doothe not geeue light to al menne at one time but breatheth where it wil and when it wil. This is the Counsel and the hande of God M. Hardinge Wée maie saie vnto you as Tertullian saide sometime vnto the Heathens Exquisitior quaeque crudelitas vestra illecebra est magis Sectae Plures efficimur quoties meâ—imur à vobis Semen est Sanguis Christianorum Your earnest crueltie is an entisemente and a prouocation vnto this Secte As often as ye recken vs ye finde vs moe and moe The Seede hereof is Christian Bloude Arnobius saide sometime vnto the enimies of the Crosse of Christe Nonne haec saltem fidem vobis faciunt argumenta credendi quâ—d iam per omnes terras in tam breui tempore paruo immensa nominis huius SacrameÌ„ta diffusa sunt At the leaste doo not these proufes make you beleeue that ye see the greate Secretes of this Name of Christe are powred abroade in so shorte space through al Countries Fighte not againste God M. Hardinge There is no Wisedome there is no Counsel againste the Lorde This is certaine ye saie touchinge the groundes of Faithe the Churche erreth not Whether your Churche haue erred or no and in what groundes it shal better appeare hereafter Truely S. Bernarde saithe of your Churche euen of your Churche of Rome Intestina insanabilis facta est plaga Ecclesiae The wounde of the Churche is within the bowelles and paste recouerie And againe Haec sunt infoelicissima tempora quae praeuidit Apostolus in quibus homines sanam Doctrinam non sustinent These be the vnhappy daies that the Apostle sawe before when Menne cannot abide sounde Doctrine This was S.
treasurie of the Popes breasâ—te it were absurde and vnreasonable Mary to saie that the Lawes reste in the Popes breaste after a certaine meaninge as hereafter shal be declared it is not altogeather beside truthe and reason But Sirs what if some meane writer or Gloser vpon the Canon Lawe speake somewhere out of square if al should be exactly tried by Scripture wil ye laie that to our charge Shal the Faithe of the Catholike Churche thereby be called in doubte and question VVe take not vpon vs to Defende al that yâ— Canonistes or SchoolemeÌ„ saie or write c. In this kinde or order be many things whiche may rather be called rules of maners then Principles or such as we terme Axiomata of our Faithe These although they be founde written in the Scripture for asmuche as they haue benne commaunded by an occasion and for some cause they maie for cause and occasion and as we finde in C. Lector for necessitie by Gods depute and Vicare be supplied holpen expounded And if the case so require he in the same for a certaine cause with a certaine persone for a certaine time with certaine circumstances maye dispense by the same spirite they were firste founded and instituted withal and with the same intention to witte for some speciall good and furtherance of Godlinesse Suche administration of Gods Lawe and suche dispensation thereof as of a precious Treasure not free or at Libertie and pleasure but an euen iuste and good dispensation they do attribute to Gods Vicare whome this Defender calleth the Popes Parasites Pages and Clawbackes him selfe a very Page Slaue and clawbacke to the Diuel The B. of Sarisburie Here M. Hardinge ye rome and wander goe masket as a man that were benighted and had loste his waie In somme cases ye saie the Pope maie dispense against Goddes VVoorde In somme cases he maie not Faine woulde ye for shame somewhat limite restraine his Immoderate Authoritie but ye knowe not where to laie the boundes Ye make smal accompte of your Schoole Doctoures and Canonistes that is to saie of the Principal Pillers of your Catholique Churche and thinke them not woorthy to be your guides How be it your laboure cannot al be loste For they wil thinke as light of you But for as mutche as ye saie they flatter not the Pope nor be his Pages or Parasites but speake roundely to him and tel him his owne it shal not be mutche amisse to herken a litle what they saie One of them saithe thus Papa potest Dispensare contra Ius Naturale The Pope maie Dispense againste the Lavve of Nature An other saith Papa Dispensat contra Canones Apostolorum The Pope Dispenseth against the Canons or Rules of the Apostles An other saithe Papa potest mutare formam Verborum in Baptismo The Pope maie change the fourme of VVoordes in Baptisme An other saithe Priuilegium dari potest contra Ius Diuinum The Popes Priuilege maie be graunted againste the Lavve of God An other saithe Papa ex Maxima Causa potest Dispensare contra Nouum TestamentuÌ„ The Pope vpon a very great cause maie dispense againste the Nevve Testamente An other saith Papa potest Dispensare de omnibus praeceptis veteris Noui Testamenti The Pope maie Dispense for any commaundemente of the Olde or Nevve Testamente An other saithe Papa potest Dispensare contra Epistolas Pauli The Pope maie Dispense againste the Epistles of S. Paule And somewhat to qualifie the outrage of the mater an other saithe Papa potest Dispensare contra Ius Diuinum in Particulari non in Vniuersali The Pope maie Dispense against the Lavve of God in Particulare not in General And againe Papa potest tollere Ius Diuinum ex Parte non in Totum The Pope maie abolishe the Lavve of God in parte but not in vvhole An other saithe Martinus Papa 5. Dispensauit cum quodam qui acceperat Germanam suam in Vxorem Pope Martine the. 5. dispensed with a man yâ— had taken to VVife his ovvne Sister Whether this reporte be true or false I referre mée selfe to the credite of the Authoure An other saith Papa potest Dispensare cum omnibus Personis nisi cum Patre Matre The Pope maie dispense vvith al Personnes touchinge Marriage sauinge onely vvith Father and Mother to Marrie or to be Married to theire Children An other saith Papa potest supra Ius Dispensare Et de Iniustitia potest facere IustitiaÌ„ Sententiam quae nulla est facere aliquam Et de nihilo facere aliquid The Pope maie dispense aboue the Lawe the Pope of VVronge maie make Right The Pope of no Sentence maie make a Sentence The Pope of nothinge maie make somme thinge The cause hereof as an other saith is this Quia Papa potest excepto Peccato quicquid Deus ipse potest Sinne onely excepted the Pope maie doo vvhat so euer God him selfe maie doo An other saithe Papa habet Authoritatem declarandi Scripturas ita vt non liceat oppositum tenere vel opinari The Pope hath Authoritie so to expounde and to declare the Scriptures that it maie not be lawful for any man to hold or to thinke the Contrarie For Cardinalis Cusanus saithe as it saide before Scripturae ad tempus adaptatae sunt variè intellectae ita vt vno tempore secunduÌ„ currenteÌ„ Vniuersalem ritum exponaÌ„tur mutato ritu iterum sententia mutetur The Scriptures are applied vnto the time and are diuersly derstanded so that at one time they are taken accordinge to the Vniuersal Currente order whiche order being changed the meaninge of the Scripture is changed too An other demaundeth a question Vtrùm Papa ex Plenitudine Potestatis possit omnia Whether the Pope by the Fulnesse of his Power maie doo al thinges An other saithe Si totus mundus sententict contra Papam videtur quòd standum esseâ— sententiae Papae If al the VVorlde vvoulde geue sentence contrarie to the Pope yet it seemeth vvee ought to stande to the sentence of the Pope These M. Hardinge by your Iudgemente are neither Pages nor Parasites but good sadde and earnest frendes sutche as loue roughly and plainely to vtter theire minde without flatterie This doubtelesse is it that Daniel so longe before Prophesied of him Dabitur illi os loquens grandia He shal haue a mouthe geuen him vtteringe greate and presumptuous maters For in déede notwithstandinge al this glorious glitteringe of painted Authoritie yet one of the Popes owne menne saithe Papa non potest facere de quadrato rotundum The Pope caÌ„not make a square thing rouÌ„de S. Bernarde saith An Regula non concordat cum Euangelio vel Apostolo Alioqui Regularam non est Regula quia non est recta Dooth not the Rule agree with the Gospel or with the Apostle Otherwise that Rule is no Rule at al for it is crooked it
were vtterly decaied and consumed to nought And in this sense ye saie Elias coÌ„plained that the Prophetes of God were al slaine he onely leâ—te aliue But nowe ye saie the Churche maie not be brought to a fevve For God hath geuen to Christe his Sonne the endes of the worlde to bee his possession Yet Christe him selfe that beste knewe the reache and limites of his possession saithe thus When the Sonne of Manne shal comme thinke you he shal finde Faithe in the worlde Whereupon S. Ambrose saithe Tunc Fides rara Vt ipse quasi addubitans Dominus ista dixerit Then shal Faithe be geason So that our Lorde spake these woordes as doubting therof whether there should be any Faithful leaft or no. And S. Iohn in his ReuelatioÌ„s saith Mulier fugit in solitudinem vbi habet locum paratum à Deo The wooman whereby is meante not the Synagog of the Ievves but the Churche of Christe fleeth into the wildernesse where she hath a place prouided of God By whiche woordes is meante that in time of Ignorance and Persecution the Churche is without Countenaunce and vnknowen S. Paule saithe Before the Daie of the Lorde there shal be a departing from the Faithe of Christe By these it appeareth that the decaie of the Churche shal be vniuersal and that the remanentes shal not bee many Therefore Vincentius Lirinensis putteth the case on this wise Quid si nouella aliqua contagio iam non portiunculaÌ„ tantùm sed totam pariter Ecclesiam commaculare conetur Tunc item prouidebit vt Antiquitati inhaereat What if somme newe corruption goe aboute to inuade not onely somme portion of the Churche but also the whole vniuersal Churche altogeather Then must a Christian man settle him selfe to cleaue to Antiquitie That is to saie to folowe the Primitiue Churche of the Apostles and Ancient Fathers This case would he neuer haue moued onlesse he had thought the VVhole vniuersal Churche might happen by somme erroure to be corrupted Surely S. Chrysostome speakinge of the state of the Churche that he sawe in his time saithe thus Videtur Ecclesia hodiè mulieri quae mansuetudine veteri exciderit similis quaeque Symbola tantùm foelicitatis illius quaedam referat Arcas Scrinia rerum pretiosissimarum adhuc retinens Thesauro destituta Huic mulieri Ecclesia hodie videtur similis The Churche this daie is like vnto a woman that hath quite loste al her olde modestie and that beareth onely certaine badges and tokens of her former felicitie and that beinge vtterly berefte of the treasures keepeth onely the Cases and Boxes of the pretious thinges she had before To suche a vvoman the churche this daie maie be likened Likewise S. Hierome speaking of that he sawe by experience in his time saithe thus Ecclesia postquam ad Christianos principes peruenit potentia quidem diuitijs maior sed virtutibus minor facta est The churche after that she is comme to Christian Princes in deede is greatter in wealth and richesse But in vertue and holinesse she is lesse then she was before Therefore saith Chrysostome Haec dico ne quis miretur Ecclesiam propter multitudinem sed vt ipsam probatam reddere studeamus Thus mutche I tel you not that wee shoulde auaunce the Churche bicause of the Multitude and encrease of people But that wee shoulde endeuour to adourne her with vertue Nowe where ye saie the Churche nowe can neuer be brought to fewe S. Bernarde saithe thus vnto God by waie of moane Coniurasse videtur contra te vniuersitas populi Christiani à minimo vsque ad maximum A planta pedis vsque ad verticem non est sanitas vlla Egressa est iniquitas à Senioribus Iudicibus Vicarijs tuis qui videntur regere populum tuum O Lorde the Vniuersal Companie of Christian people seemeth to haue conspired againste thee from the lovvest vnto the highest From the sole of the foote vnto the croune of the heade there is no whole place Iniquitie and wickednesse is gonne foorthe from thy Elder Iudges that be thy Vicares that are thought to rule thy people Againe he saithe Intestinalis insanabilis est plaga Ecclesiae the wounde of the Churche is inwarde and paste recouer Likewise Baptista Mantuane complaineth vnto Pope Leo Sancte Pater succurre Leo Respublica Christi Labitur aegrotatque Fides iam proxima morti Healpe Holy Father Leo Christes Common Wealth that is the Churche is falling downe the Faithe is sicke and like to die So likewise saithe he that wrote the Forte of Faithe Et si in hoc Daemonum bello cadant Religiosi Principes Milites Praelati Ecclesiastici Subditi tamen semper manent aliqui in quibus saluatur Veritas Fidei Iustificatio bonae Conscientiae Et si non nisi duo homines remanerent in mundo in eis saluaretur Ecclesia quae est Vnitas Fidelium In this battel of Diuelles notwithstandinge the Godly Princes the Souldiers the Ecclesiastical Prelates and Subiectes be ouerthrowen yet euermore somme remaine in whome the Truethe of Faithe and the Righteousnesse of a good Conscience is preserued And although there remained but tvvo menne in the vVorlde yet in the same twoo the Churche of God shoulde be saued vVhiche Churche is the Vnitie of the Faitheful The Churche of God is often compared to the Moone which sometimes is ful round bright glorious sommetimes is wholy shadowed drowned in darkenesse and yet notwithstanding is not consumed but in Substance remaineth stil S. Augustine saith Aliquando in Solo Abel Ecclesia erat et expugnatus est à fratre malo perdito Caim Aliquando in Solo Enoch Ecclesia erat translatus est ab iniquis Sommetime the Churche was in onely Abel and he was destroied by his brother vvicked Caim Sommetime the Churche was onely in â—noch and he was translated from the wicked Your owne Panormitane saithe Possibile est quòd Vera Fides Christi remaneret in Vno Solo Atque ita verum est dicete quòd Fides non deficit in Ecclesia Hoc patuit post Passionem Christi Nam Fides remansit tantùm in Beata Virgine Quia omnes alij scandalizati sunt Tamen Christus ante Passionem orauerat pro Petro vt non deficeret Fides sua Ergo Ecclesia non dicitur deficere nec etiam errare si remanet Vera Fides in Vno Solo It is possible the trewe Faithe of Christe maie remaine in one alone And so it is true to saie that Faithe faileth not in the Churche This thinge appeared after Christes Passion For then the Faithe remained onely in the Blessed Virgin For al the reste bothe the Apostles and others were offended Yet had Christe praied for Peter before his Passion that his Faithe shoulde not faile Therefore vve maie not saie the Churche faileth or erreth if the Faithe remaine but in one alone
de Ecclesia qui Spirituales Christiani fuerunt relicta Corporali Ecclesia quam perfidi occupauerant violentia exierunt ab illis Magis autem illi exierunt à nobis sicut Iohannes exponit Non enim ille de Ecclesia exire videtur qui corporaliter exit sed qui Spiritualiter Veritatis Ecclesiasticae Fundamenta reliquit Nos enim ab illis exâ—uimus Corpore illi à nobis animo Nos enim ab illis extuimus Loco Illi à nobis Fide Nos apud illos reliquimus Fundamenta parietum Illi apud nos reliquerunt Fundamenta Scripturarum Nos ab illis egressi sumus secundum aspectum Hominum Illi autem à nobis secundum Iudicium Dei. Relicta est autem deserta ex quo de illa Corporali Ecclesia Spiritualis exiuit Id est de populo suo qui videbatur Christianus non erat Populus iste exiuit qui non videbatur erat Magis autem secundumquod diximus illi à nobis exierunt quà m nos ab illis Euen so touchinge this Nevve Hierusalem whiche is the Câ—urche they that were Spiritu Christian menne lecuinge the Bodily Churche whiche the wicked by violence had inuaded departed out from them Or as s S. Iohn expoundeth it they rather departed out from vs. For he seemeth not in deede to departe from the Churche that Bodily departeth but he that Spiritually leaueth the Fundations of the Ecclesiastical Truthe VVe haue departed from them in Body they haue departed from vs in Minde VVe from them by Place they from vs by Faithe VVee haue leafte with them the Fundations of the VValles They haue leafte with vs the Fundations of the Scriptures VVee are departed foorthe from them in the sighte of Man They are departed from vs in the Iudgemente of God But nowe after that the Spiritual Churche is gonne foorthe the Bodily Churche is leafte foresaken That is to saie from that people that seemed to be a Christian people and was not this people is gonne foorthe that seemed not out wardely but was so in dede Notwithstandinge as wee haue saide before they haue rather departed from vs then we from them Ye saie your Churche of Rome that nowe is and the Primitiue Churche is al One Churche Euen so the Moone bothe in the ful and in the wane is al One Moone Euen so Hierusalem as wel vnder Dauid as vnder Manass es was al one Cittie The Holy place whether the Maiestie of God or the Abomination of Desolation stande in it is al one place The Primitiue Churche saie you and the Churche of Rome that novv is is al one Churche Therefore wée saie the Churche of Rome that now is in Truthe and Religion ought to agrée with the Primitiue Churche Whether the Churche maie be brought to a fevve in number or no wée had occasion sommewhat to saie before The Anciente Father Irenaeus saithe Quemadmodum ibi in plurimis eorum qui peccauerunt non bene sensit Deus Sic hîc multi sunt vocati pauci verò electi As in the Olde Testamente in many of them that offended God was not pleased Euen so now in the Nevve Testamente many are called and fewe are Chosen In Consideration whereof S. Hierome crieth out in an Agonie within him selfe Tanta erit Sanctorum paucitas So smal shal be the number of holy menne One of your owne Doctours saithe as it is alleged once before Licet in hoc bello Daemonum cadaÌ„t Religiosi Principes Milites Praelati Ecclesiastici Subditi semper tamen manent aliqui in quibus seruatur Veritas Fidei Iustificatio bonae Conscientiae Et si non nisi duo viri Fideles remanerent in mundo tamen in illis saluaretur Ecclesia quae est Vnitas Fidelium Notwithstandinge in this warre of Diuelles bothe the Godly Princes and Souldiers and Ecclesiastical Prelates and Subiectes be ouer throwne yet euermore there remaine somme in whome the Truthe of Faithe and the Righteousnesse of good Conscience is preserued And notwithstandinge there vvere but tv voo Faithful menne remaininge in the worlde yet euen in them the Churche of God whiche is the Vnitie of the Faithful should be saued But for that wée saie vvee vvere brought vp emonge you in Darkenesse and Ignorance Yée enter out of season into a needelesse discourse of coÌ„parison of Learninge In the Liberal Sciences ye saie we are not comparable to the Learned menne of your side It was not our meaninge M. Hardinge to cal the Bright beames of your Liberal Learninge into question It appeareth yee woulde faine haue it blased and magnified to the vttermoste and no waie to be disgraced Wee meante onely the knowledge of God and the open ProfessioÌ„ of his Holy Woorde In comparison of whiche knowledge al other knowledge what so euer is meere darknesse How be it touchinge any kinde of the Liberal and Learned Sciences there was no great cause why ye shoulde either so highly rowse your selfe in your owne opinion or so greately disdeigne others Ye maie remember that your Prouincial Constitutions beginne with these woordes Ignorantia Sacerdotum It were no greate Maisterie to charge the Chiefe Doctoures of your side with somme want of Learning Ludouicus Viues saith Vt quidque Ius superioribus saeculis minùs tittum fuit studentium manibus ita purius ad nos peruenit For the space of certaine hundred yeeres paste the lesse any Booke came into your Learned studentes handes the purer and better it came to vs. Meaninge thereby that euery thinge was the woorse for your Learned handelinge Of Thomas Scotus Hugo and others of whom yée seeme to make so greate accoumpte your owne frende Catharinus saithe Scholastici multa ineruditè Comminiscuntur These Schole Doctoures imagine many mâ—ters vnlearnedly Erasmus saithe Portenta quae nunc passim legimus in Commentarijs Recention Interpretum tam impudentia insulsa sunt vt videaÌ„tur suibus ea scripsisse non Hominibus The monstrous folies that wee commonly reade in the Commentaries of the late Interpreters whereby he meaneth the very croppe and the woorthieste of al your Scholastical Learned Doctoures are so far without shame and so peeuishe as if they had benne vvritten for Svvine and not for menne One of your Doctoures saithe Apostolus dicitur ab Apos quod est Argumentum vel praeeminentia Stolon quod est Missio quasi praeeminenter Missus An other saithe Apocrisarij dicuntur Nuntij Domini Papae Nam crisis dicitur Secretum Apos dicitur Nuntius An other saithe Cathedra est nomen Graecum componitur à Cathos quod est Fides edra quod est Sponda An other saithe Eleemosyna dicitur ab Eleis quod est Misereri Mois quod est Aqua Peter Crab in his late Scholies vpon the Councelles saith thus Mulieres 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 id est Cohabitantes Sacculos Likewise againe he saithe Phrygium
receiued of the Apostles And wilt thou knowe Reader what they be Forsoothe they haue neither Priuate Masses nor mangled Sacramentes nor Purgatories nor Pardons Is not the witte of this Defender to bee commended that maketh a man to holde that whiche he hath not Those Greekes holde stil saithe he VVhat holde they Mary they haue not this and that This is a newe kinde of holdinge for a man to holde that he hath not If they holde stil then haue they stil But they haue not saieth he then howe holde they A man maie by the rules of this newe Logique thus reason The Turkes Saracenes Iewes Infidels Idolaters yea the shepe of Cottesholde also if ye wil haue neither priuate Masses nor Communion vnder one kinde nor Purgatories nor Pardons Ergo they holde a number of thinges whiche they receiued from the Apostles The antecedent is true VVho so euer denieth the consequente must compte this Defenders Logique very simple VVhat if one shoulde make this argumente This Defender hath neither good Logique nor very fine Rhetorike nor profounde Philosophie nor the right knowledge of Diuinitie Ergo he holdeth many Heresies Though bothe the Antecedent and Consequent be true yet is the argument naught For by like reason one might conclude an honest vnlearned catholique man to be an Heretique whiche were false and iniurious Sutche is the Logique sutche are the topikes of this newe negatiue and ablatiue diuinitie for so maie we worthely cal it Negatiue in respect of their blasphemous tongues denieing sundrie weightie pointes of our Faithe Ablatiue in respecte of their wicked handes casting away throwinge downe and taking away manie good thinges perteining to the maintenance of Christen Religion and Goddes honour Put them from their negatiues and from their ablatiues then in what case shal they stande The B. of Sarisburie I am ashamed the worlde should be combred with so childishe folies This Defenders witte ye saie is to bee commended He maketh a man to holde that be neuer hadde And what holde they saie you Mary they haue not this and that This is a newe kinde of holdinge for a man to holde that he hath not If they holde stil then haue they stil But they haue not then howe holde they Nowe surely M. Hardinge I trowe wee shal Haue and Holde a mery man So prety sporte yee canne make youre selfe with Hauinge and Holdinge It were great pitie yee shoulde euer be otherwise occupied Annibal of Carthage when he hadde hearde Phormio the Oratoure talke pleasantly a longe whyle togeather beinge afterwarde demaunded what he thought of his Eloquence made aunsweare in his homely sorte Multos se vidisse delitos senes sed qui magis quà m Phormio deliraret vidisse neminem But somme what to yelde vnto your pleasance why maie not a man Holde that be neuer Hadde as wel as Lose that he neuer Hadde In the Learned Gloses vpon youre Decrees yee maie finde this note emongest others Nota quòd aliquis dicitur perdere quod nunquā habuit Marke wel this A man maie be said to Lose that he neuer Hadde And yet ye saie cōmonly in the Schooles Priuatio semper praesupponit habitum The Losing of a thing alwaies pre supposeth the Hauing of the same Or to answeare you in plainer wyse why maie not a man as wel Holde nothinge as you maie talke so mutche and yet saie nothing Galene saide sommetime to one that spake then in sutche substantial manner as you speake nowe Accipe nihil tene fideliter Take nothinge and holde it faste But to leaue youre folies and seely toies M. Hardinge with youre Turkes and Saracenes and Sheepe of Cotesholde wee saie not The Greekes Holde stil that they neuer Hadde But wee saie They Holde stil that they euer Hadde You re Priuate Masses and youre Dimi Communions they Holde not for they Hadde them neuer The Holy and VVhole Communion in Bothe kindes they Holde stil and sithence the Apostles time they haue hadde them euer They praie also for the Dead And therein yee saie is implied youre Faithe of Purgatorie I wil not here touche the simplicitie of youre Rhetorique or Logique M. Hardinge But onely wishe you to haue better regarde to youre Diuinitie For ought that I can see Praier for the Deade and youre Fantasie of Purgatorie were neuer so straitely coupled togeather but that they might wel and easily goe a sunder The Grecians as they Praie for the Deade so doo they Praie for the Apostles for the Patriarkes for the Prophetes and for the Blessed Virgine oure Ladie as you maie soone perceiue by S. Basiles and by S. Chrysostomes Liturgie Yet I thinke yee woulde not haue youre Reader beleue as an Article of youre Faithe that the Apostles of Christe the Patriarkes the Prophetes and the Blessed Virgin Christes Mother are stil in Purgatorie What so euer other opinion the Grecians haue of the Deade certaine it is they coulde neuer yet be brought to beleue youre Purgatorie Roffensis one of your greatest Doctoures as I haue saide before saith thus Purgatorium Graecis vsque ad hunc diem non est creditum The Grecians vntil this daie beleue not Purgatorie Thus M. Hardinge I knowe not whether by youre Logique or by youre Diuinitie for bothe are marueilous yee woulde faine force youre poore Greekes to Holde that thinge that they neuer Hadde An other proper pastime yee make youre selfe with youre Negatiues and Ablatiues And wherefore it were harde to telle sauinge that I see ye were wel disposed and wel it became you to be mery The Ancient Learned Fathers hauinge to deale with impudent Heretiques that in defence of their Erroures auouched the Iudgemente of al the Olde Bishoppes and Doctoures that hadde benne before them and the general consente of the Primitiue and whole Vniuersal Churche and that with as good regarde of Truthe and as Faithefully as you doo nowe the better to discouer the shamelesse boldenesse and nakednesse of theire Doctrine were oftentimes likewise forced to vse the Negatiue and so to driue the same Heretiques as wee doo you to proue theire Affirmatiues whiche thinge to doe it was neuer possible The Anciente Father Irenaeus thus staied him selfe as wee doo by the Negatiue Hoc neque Prophetae Praedicauerunt neque Dominus docuit neque Apostoli tradiderunt This thinge neither did the Prophetes publishe nor oure Lorde teache nor the Apostles deliuer By a like Negatiue Chrysostome saithe Hanc Arborem non Paulus plantauit non Apollo rigauit non Deus auxit This Tree of Erroure neither Paule planted nor Apollo watered nor God encreased In like sorte Leo saithe Quid opus est in cor admittere quod Lex non docuit quod Prophetia non cecinit quod Euangelij Veritas non praedicauit quod Apostolica Doctrina non tradidit What needeth it to beleue that thing that neither the Lawe hathe taught nor the Prophetes haue spoken nor the Gospel hathe preached nor
swaie of Authoritie doo wreaste the Scriptures which thing as camotensis saith is an vsual custome with the Popes Howe if he haue renounced the Faithe of christe becoÌ„me an Apostata as Lyranus saithe many Popes haue benne And yet for al this shal the Holy Ghoste with turninge of a hande knocke at his breaste and euen whether he wil or no yea and wholy againste his wil kindle him a light so as he maie not erre Shal he streight waie be the Headespring of al Right and shal al the treasures of Wisdome Vnderstanding be found in him as it were laide vp in stoare Or if these thinges be not in him can he geeue a right and apte iudgemente of so weighty maters Or if he be not hable to iudge woulde he haue that those maters shoulde be brought before him alone M. Hardinge To your howe ifs and what ifs I coulde sone make an answeare by the contrary And Sir how if the Pope haue sene al these thinges the Scriptures Fathers and Councels VVhat haue you then to saie Is not your tale then at an ende VVere your matter good and your selfe wise you woulde nor so commonly vse that weake kirde of reasoning But to a number of your how ifs and what ifs for the readers sake to put awaie al seruple I geue you this answeare Gods wisedome as the Scripture saithe disposeth al thinges sweetly and in one instant forseeth the ende and meanes that be necessary to the end If he promise any man life euerlasting withal he geueth him grace also to do good dedes whereby to obteine the same VVhom he hath glorified saith S. Paule theÌ„ he hath iustified and called So whereas he hath by force of his praier made to the Father promised to Peter and for the safetie of the Churche to euery Peters Successour that his faithe shal not faile and therfore hath willed him to confirme his brethren that is to remoue al doubtes and errours from them we are assured he wil geue him sutche witte diligence learninge and vnderstandinge as this firmnes and infallibilitie of faithe and confirminge of brethren requireth Shal we stande in doubte whether that happeneth in thinges supernatural whiche we see to be in thinges natural that who geueth the ende he geueth also thinges that perteine to the atteininge of the ende If God woulde promise vs abundance of corne for the nexte yeere to come what were more folish then to doubte and saie like to this Defender howe if and what if men wil not til the grounde nor so we any seede Doubtles if they so we they shal reepe if they sowe not neither shal they reepe But what VVe maie gather of the promise of God that we shal haue not onely faier and ceasonable wether wherby the fruites of the earth maie proue plentiful but also that the husbandmen shal emploie theire endeuour paines and labour For the abundance of corne so promised shal not be geuen but to sutch as til so we and truail Euen so wheras Christe hath promised to the Successours of Peter firmnes of Faithe to the Apostles and theire Successours the spirite of Truthe and likewise to Councels gathered in his name we muste perswade our selues that nothinge shal wante necessary for the controuersies touchinge faithe to be decided That you saie of Liberius the Pope is starke fâ—lse He neuer fauoured the Arians The moste ye can finde againste him is that he was compelled by the greate persecution of Constantius the Emperoure to subscribe to the Arians Neither is that by the Aunciente writers of the Ecclesiastical stories constantly affirmed but of the chiefe of them not spoken of where moste occasion was to signifie it if it had so ben of some denied of some mentioned not as true but as a false rumoure bruted abroade of him By whiche rumour it semeth S. Hierome was deceiued remaininge in the Easte farre from the places where the Truth might more certainely be knowen But were it true that he subscribed as Peter denied Christ yet beinge done for lacke of Charitie and not by erroure in faith wel might that facte be slaunderous to the Churche but it was not a decre made in fauour of the Arians neither to confirme that heresie That you reporte of Pope Iohn the 22. is likewise moste false The worste that Marsilius of Padua and VVilliam Ockam Heretikes wrote of him to flatter the Emperour Lidouicus of Bauaria is that he had taught openly whiche also is referred to the time before he was Pope that the soules of the iuste see not God vntil the daie of iudgemente That he had a wicked and a detestable opinion of the immortalitie of the soule there was no sutche his opinion but it is your false slaunder by whiche your wicked and detestable malice imagined to deface the Churche and specially the Auctoritie of the holy See Apostolike No storie of any estimation mentioneth that he was of that firste opinion after he came to be Pope much lesse that he gaue any definitiue sentence of such matter But contrariwise when as he prepared him selfe to goe to the definition of that question concerninge the seeinge of God whiche iuste soules haue before the daie of iudgement as Benedictus theleuenth in sua extrauagante saieth he was preuented by death so as he might not do it You belte Zosimus be corrupted not the Councel of Nice But signified to the Bishops of Aphrike assembled in Councel at Carthage the Truthe concerninge the Canons of the Nicene Councel The same maie be proued by Iulius the first by the Epistle of Athinasius and other Bishops of Egypt Thebats and Libya written to Marcus the Pope of the Original of the 72. Canons of the Nicene Councel that remained in safe custodie in the Churche of Rome subscribed with the handes of the Fathers that at the same Councel were present And what credite was to be geuen to the contrary informatioÌ„ of only twenty Canons that was retourned from the Bishops of Constantinople and Alexandria when Hereikes before had burned the Bookes where the whole number was conteined and lefte but those twenty that al Bookes nowe commonly haue If we shoulde alleage Camotensis and Lyre you woulde cal them the blacke garde and set litle by them First she we vs where they haue that you alleage out of them M Iuel alleageth that of Canotensis in an other place But where it is he kepeth it to him selfe and of him selfe it is likely it proceded For his dealinge is sutche as any false practise in respecte of him maie seme credible Albeit what worshipful Doctour ye meane by Camotensis I knowe not Peraduenture ye meane Carnotensis otherwise called Iuo I haue cause to gesse that so it should be And yet foure Bookes of sundry Printes bothe Englishe and Latine so haue If there be any sutche as I suppose there is not he is
he ought to doo was immediately called to answeare for his life as one that had wickedly vttered disdainful and haynous woordes against the Lawe against Moyses against the Temple and against God Or who is ignorant that in times past there were some whiche reproued the holy Scriptures of falsehed sayinge they conteined thinges bothe contrary and quite one against an other and howe that the Apostles of Christe did seuerally disagree betwixt them selues and that S. Paule did varie from them al And not to make rehersal of al for that were an endles labour who knoweth not after what sorte our Fathers were railed vpon in times paste whiche first began to acknowledge and professe the name of Christe how they made priuate conspiracies deuised secrete Counsels against the common wealth and to that ende made early and priuie meetinges in the darke killed yonge Babes fedde them selues with mens fleashe and like sauage and brute beastes did drinke their Bloude In conclusion how that after they had put out the candels they cōmitted Adulterie betwene them selues without regarde wrought incest one with an other that Brethern laie with their Sisters Sonnes with their Mothers without any reuerence of nature or kinne without shame without difference and that they were wicked men without al care of Religion and without any opinion of God being the very enimies of mankinde vnwoorthy to be suffered in the worlde and vnwoorthy of life Al these thinges were spoken in those daies against the people of God against Christe Iesus against Paule against Steuin and against al them whosoeuer they were whiche at the firste beginninge imbraced the truthe of the Gospel were contented to be called by the name of Christians whiche was then an hateful name amonge the common people And although the thinges whiche they saide were not true yet the Diuel thought it should be sufficient for him if at the least he coulde bringe it so to passe as they might be beleued for true and that the Christians might be brought into a common hatred of euery bodie and haue their death and destruction sought of al sortes Herevpon Kinges Princes beinge ledde then by suche persuasions killed al the Prophetes of God lettinge none escape Esay with a sawe Ieremie with stones Daniel with Lions Amos with an iron barre Paule with the swerde and Christe vpon the Crosse and cōdemned al Christians to imprisonmentes to tormentes to the pikes to be throwne downe headlong frō rockes and steepe places to be cast to wilde beastes and to be burnt and made great fiers of theyr quicke bodies for the onely purpose to giue light by night for a very scorne and mockynge stocke and did compte them no better then the vilest filthe the ofscouringes and laughinge games of the whole worlde Thus as ye see haue the Authours and professours of the truthe euer bene entreated M. Hardinge Who would not thinke these defenders were true men that in the beginninge of their Apologie speake so muche of the truthe Yet who knoweth not that oftentimes euil meaninge is hidde vnder good woordes Who hath not hearde that filthy queanes in time and place vse the honest talke of chaste matrones The theefe commendeth iuste dealinges and many times shewithe a stomake against false harlottes noman more Amonge al none pretende truthe in wordes so muche as Heretiques I feare me saithe S. Paule lest as the Serpente beguiled Eue by his sutteltie so your wittes be corrupted and fallen away from that plainenes Whiche is in Christe The Apostle feared because of the craftie Iewes who the rather to deceiue mingled scriptures with their owne traditions and truthe with fals head So bringeth the Heretique his hearer to errour in faithe by coloure and pretence of truthe They are muche like to the Manicheis who promised their hearers to discusse and set forthe the truthe moste euidently vnto them and to deliuer them from all maner of errours By whiche faire promises S. Augustine was allured to be a diligent scholar of theirs for the space of nine yeres Christe gaue vs a lesson howe to discerne them By their fruites ye shall knowe them saithe he And nowe to you Sirs Euen in the beginninge and as I may saie in the foreheade of your Apologie whiles I examine it diligently I finde two foule faultes the one in your Rhetorike the other in your Logike By whiche two faultes bothe the vns kil of your secretarie and the weakenes of your mater maie be espied as the Asse I spake of right nowe was by his two eares staringe out vnder the Lions skinne Your diuinitie is nothinge els in grosse but a lumpe of lies errours and Heresies First touching your Rhetorike emongst many faultie proemes one of the woorst is that which is suche as the aduersary may vse whiche by them is called Exordium commune that is to wite suche a beginninge as will serue the defendant no lesse then the Plaintife or contrariwise Of that sorte is the beginninge of your Apologie For declaringe at large that truthe hath euer beene persecuted what saithe it therein the faultes amended that we may not saie the same That ship-maister is accoumpted very bad who at the settinge out of the hauen driueth the Ship on the rockes Alleaginge Tertullian to healpe your cause ye iniurie the Doctor by alteringe his wordes Ye were not wise by falsifiyng the first sentence so muche to impaire your credite Tertullian saith not that truthe readily findeth enimies and sclaunderers amongst those that knowe her not but that truthe sone findeth enimies inter extraneos amongst aliantes and strangers Now the Christian Catholikes whom ye call Papistes be not in respecte of the truthe aliantes and strangers For your selues in sundry places of your Booke reproue them for resistinge the truthe whiche they knowe You haue geuen Tertullian a newe liuerie with your owne badge and haue made exchaunge of Extraneos with Ignotos Tertullian meante by aliantes no other then Infidels and Paynimes emonge whom Christen people then liued and were daily persecuted But after the Gospel had benne sounded abrode by the Apostles and their successours through al the earth after that the Emperours them selues and all the people euery where had receiued the faithe then was the truthe no more a wanderer strangers or Pilgrime in the earthe The Bishop of Sarisburie Touchinge this comparison of whoores and Théeues and other like M. Hardinges vngentle spéeches as I haue before protested I wil saye nothinge He is very doumbe and can speake but litle that cannot speake it It is true M. Hardinge that you saie Most Lyers oftentimes pretende most Truthe as if there were none other example maye soone appeare by the whole tenour and substance of your Bookes The Diuel him selfe the better to founde his Lyes beareth him selfe oftentimes as the Angel of Truthe But the example that ye bringe of the Iewes who as you saie the rather to deceiue mingled Scripture
c. Folo winge the Holy Fathers wee doo al with one accorde teache men to confesse one and him selfe the Sonne our Lorde Iesus Christe persite him selfe in Godhead and perfite himselfe in Manhood And for Auctoritie of the Fathers in high pointes of Faith a Bishop in that reuereÌ„d assemblie named Eudoocius pronounced a notable sentence sayeing thus Euery one that consentethe not to the exposition of the Holy Fathers doothe alienate him selfe from al Pristely Communion and from the presence of Christe Thus wee haue alleaged the foure first general Councels whiche S. Gregorie honourethe as the foure Gospels But the thinge beinge so euident as it is and so welkuorwen euen to your selues if ye be learned the Auctorit it of these chief Councels maie suffice The B. of Sarisburie Here M. Hardinge ye haue taken in hande a néedelesse labour For you knowe right wel wee despise not the Authoritie of the Holy Fathers but rather in this selfe same place haue alleged togeather S. Augustine S. Hierome and S. Ambrose thrée of the moste Auncient and approued Fathers and throughout the whole discourse of this Apologie in the Defence of the Catholique Truthe of our Religion nexte vnto Goddes Holy Woorde haue vsed no prouse or Authoritie so mutche as the expositions and iudgementes of the Holy Fathers Wée despise them not therefore but rather geue God thankes in theire behalfe for that it hathe pleased him to prouide so woorthy instrumentes for his Churche and therefore wée iustly reproue you for that so vnaduisedly and without cause ye haue forsaken the steppes of so Holy Fathers These foure General Councelles wherein you dwel so longe as they make nothinge against vs so in sundrie pointes they fight expressely against you Firste they were summoned by the Emperours Constantinus Theodosius 1. Theodosius 2. and Martianus and not by any right or authoritie of the Pope as hereafter it shal be shewed in place conuenient more at large Iulius the Bishop of Rome was summoned by the Emperours write to appeare at the Councel of Nice as wel as others And Pope Leo afterwarde was charged by like Authoritie to appeare at the Councel of Chalcedon In the Councel of Nice the Bishop of Rome was not President but Eustathius the Bishop of Antioche In the same Councel of Nice the Bishop of Rome hathe his Authoritie and Iurisdiction made equal and leuel with the other thrée Patriarkes And in the Councel of Chalcedon the Bishop of Constantinople is made equal in Authoritie with the Bishop of Roome To be shorte the saide Councel of Chalcedon for this laste and some other like causes Leo the Bishop of Rome would not allowe Which thinge notwithstandinge the Councel standethe stil in force whether the Pope wil or no. These be the foure fiste General Councelles whiche M. Hardinge comparethe in Authoritie with the foure Euangelistes But these Heretiques Arius Nestorius Macedonius and Euiyches in these foure General Councelles vtterly despised al the Auncient Fathers and boasted them selues saithe M. Hardinge of the Scriptures and euermore cried out Scriptures Scriptures Touchinge the Arians that they alleged certaine doubteful and darke places of the Scriptures to serue theire purpose it is certaine and manifeste But that either they despised or that the Catholiques against them auouched the Eropsition and authoritie of any Father M. Hardinges onely woorde muste be our Warrante For neither allegethe he any one Author for prouse hereof nor yet namethe any of al these Fathers Notwithstandinge let vs graunt these Heretiques cried out as M. Hardinge saithe Scriptures Scriptures Euen so did the same Heretiques likewise crie out euen as nowe M. Hardinge doothe Fathers Fathers Socrates saithe Et Ariani Originis libros citabant in Testimonium vt illi quidem iudicabant sui Dogmatis And the Arian Heretikes alleged the Learned Father Origens Bookes as they thought for proufe and witnesse of theire Doctrine The Heretique Eutyches saide Ego legi scripta Beati Cypriani Sanctorum Patrum Sancti Athanasii I haue readde the writinges of S. Cyprian and of other Holy Fathers and of S. Athanafius Likewise the Eutychian Heretique Carosus saide Ego secundum expositionem treceÌ„torum octodecim Patrum sic credo fic Baptixatus sum Aliud quid mihi dicas nescio This is my Faithe accordinge to the exposition of the three hundred and eighteene Fathers in the Councel of Nice In this Faithe was I Baptized What ye should saye more to me I cannot telle Euen so saide Eutyches him selfe Sic à Progenitoribus meis accepi credidi In hac Fide Baptizatus sum signatus vsque and hunc diem in ea vixi in ea opto moti Thus haue I receiued of my Forefathers and thus haue I beleeued In this Faithe was I Baptized and signed and in the same haue I liued vntil this daye and in the same I wish to die Thus S. Augustine saithe the Donatian Heretique Cresconlus alleged the authoritie of S. Cyprian Thus the Nestorian Heretiques alleged the authoritie of the Councel of Nice To be shorte thus the Heretique Dioscorus cried out in the open Councel of Chalcedon Ego habeo Testimonia Sanctorum Patrum Athanasij Gregorij Cyrilli Non transgredior in aliquo Ego cum Patribus cijcior Ego defendo Patrum Dogmata Ego horum habeo testimonia non simpliciter aut transitorie sed in ipsorum libris I haue the Testimonies of the Holy Fathers Athanasius Gregorius Cyrillus I alter not from them in any pointe I am throwen foorthe and bannished with the Fathers I defende the Fathers Doctrine I haue theire iudgementes vttered not by chaunce or vnaduisedly but remaininge expressed in theire Bookes I doubte not M. Hardinge but you maye hereby easily sée that the Heretiques ye speake of cried not onely Scriptures Scriptures as ye saye but had leasure also sometimes to crie as you doo Fathers Fathers that as wel to purpose and as rightly as you of longe time haue vsed to crie hauinge in déede in the cases wée speake of neither Scriptures nor Fathers To come neare the mater wée saie not that al cases of doubt are by manifeste and open woordes plainely expressed in the Scriptures For so there should neede no exposition But wée saye There is no case in Religion so darke and doubteful but it maie necessarily be either proued or reproued by collection and conference of the Scriptures S. Hierome saithe Moris est Scripturarum obscuris manifesta subnectere It is yâ— order of the Scriptures â–ª after harde thinges to ioine other thinges that bee plaine S. Augustine like wise saithe Solet circunstantia Scripturarum illuminare sententiam The Circunstance of the Scripture is woonte to geue light and to open the meaninge The like rule Tertullian also geuethe Oportet secundum pluâ—a intelligi pauclora The fewer places muste be expounded by the moe Therefore touchinge this woorde Homousios whiche
M. Hardinge here moueth and the whole contention of the Arians Epiphanius writethe thus Nomen Substantiae simpliciter nudè in veteri Noua Scriptura non proponitur Sententia autem eius nominis vbique ocâ—urrié This woorde Substance plainely and nakedly is not founde neither in the Olde not in the Newe Testamente But the sense and meaninge of that woorde is founde euerywhere In this conference and Iudgemente of the Holy Scriptures wée néede oftentimes the discretion and wisedome of Learned Fathers Yet notwithstandinge maye wée not géeue them herein greater crediâ—e then is conuenient or then they them selues if it were offered would receiue Wée maye reuerently saye of them as Seneca in the like case sommetime saide Non sunt Domini sed Duces nostri They are our Leaders but not our Lordes They are not the Truthe of God it selfe but onely witnesses vnto the Truthe Therfore S. Augustine saithe Alios Scriptores ita lego vt quanâ—alibet Sanctitate Doctrinaque praepolleant non ideò verum putem quòd ipsi ita senserint sed quòd id mihi vel per alios Authores Canonicos vel probabili ratione persuadere potuerint Other writers or Fathers bisides the Holy Scriptures I reade in this sorte that be theire Learninge or Holinesse neuer so greate I wil not thinke it true bicause they haue thought so but bicause they are hable to persuade me so either by other Canonical writers or els by some likely reason Likewise againe he saithe Hoc genus literatum noÌ„ cum credendi necessitate sed cum iudicandi libertate legendum est This kinde of writinges of the Holy Doctours and Fathers must be readde not with necessitie to beleeue eche thinge but with libertie to iudge of eche thinge And to that ende he saithe Ne Catholicis quidem Episcopis consentiendum est sicubi fortè falluntur vt contra Canonicas Dei Scripturas sentiant Wee maie not consente vnto the Bishoppes notwithstandinge they be Catholique if they iudge contrarie to the Holy Canonical Scriptures In this authoritie and credite wée haue and ought to haue the Holy Fathers Nowe let vs sée whethér the Bishoppes and others in these Councelles confuted these Heretiques as wée saye by the Scriptures or els as M. Hardinge séemethe to saye for wante or weakenesse of the Scriptures vsed therein the Authoritie of the Fathers Firste the Emperour Constantinus in the Councel of Nice instructinge the Bishoppes there howe they might beste debate theire quarrelles and ende al striues saithe thus vnto them Euangelicae Apostolicae Literae Veterum Prophetarum Oracula perspicuè nos instituunt quid oporteat sapere de voluntare sensu Dei. Ponentes ergo contentionem ex diuinitùs inspiraris oraculis quaeramus solutionem eorum quae proponuntur The Euangelistes and Apostles Writinges and the saieinges of the Olde Prophetes doo clearely instructe vs what iudgemente wee ought to haue of the meaninge and wil of God Therefore saieinge a fide al contention out of those Heauenly Oracles let vs seeke for the assoilinge of our questions Socrates also touchinge the same Councel of Nice saithe thus of the Arian Heretiques Explicantes Sacrosanctas Scripturas saepe illos euertimus By openinge and expoundinge the Holy Scriptures oftentimes wee ouerthrewe them Likewise S. Augustine disputinge againste the same Arians refusethe as I haue saide before bothe Councelles and Fathers and appealethe onely to the Scriptures Nec ego Nicenam Synodum tibi nec tu mihi Ariminensem debes obijcere Scripturarum Authoritatibus res cum re causa cum causa ratio cum ratione concertet Neither wil I allege the Councel of Nice against you nor shal you allege the Councel of Ariminum againste me By the Authoritie of the Scriptures let vs weigh mater with mater cause with cause reason with reason Touchinge the Councel holden at Constantinople against Macedonius and the Diuinitie of the Holy Ghoste Athanasius saithe Ne interroges sed solùm ex Sacris literis condiscas Sufficiunt enim documenta quae in illis reperias Neuer mooue question hereof but onely learne of the Holy Scriptures For the onely proufes that ye shal there finde are sufficient to warrant the Godhed of the Holy Ghoste So likewise saithe Euagrius of the other twoo Councelles of Ephesus and Chalcedon Ex Euangelicis Apostolicis de Domino vocibus scimus Viros illos Diuinos constituisse Wee knowe that these Godly Fathers concluded this mater by suche woordes as the Euangelistes and Apostles haue vttered of our Lorde Therefore the Auncient Father Origen saithe Vide quà m propè periculis illi sint qui negliguÌ„t exerceri in Diuinis Literis ex quibus Solis examinationis huiusmodi agnoscenda discretio est Consider in what daunger they be that haue no care to reade the Holy Scriptures For by the same Scriptures Onely the iudgement of this trial must be allowed Euen so saithe Chrysostome Etiamsi in ipsis Veris Ecclesijs quae Dei sunt dixerint Christum apparuisse nolite eis credere dicentibus ista de me Non enim digna est Diuinitatis meae haec notitia OsteÌ„dens per haec quòd ab ipsis saepè Veris Ecclesijs excunt seductores Proptereà ne ipsis quidem credendum est nisi ea vel dicant vel faciant quae conuenientia sint Scripturis Yea if they saie that Christe hathe appeared in the very true Churches of God yet beleeue them not For this is no woorthy or sufficient knoweledge of my Godhed By this he sheweth that out of the very true Churches oftentimes come foor the deceiuers Therefore wee maie not beleeue no not them that speake vnto vs in the name of the Churche onlesse they speake and doo suche thinges as are agreeable to the Scriptures In like manner againe saithe Origen Necesse nobis est in restimonium vocare Sancras Scripturas Sensus quippe nostri enarrationes sine ijs restibus non habent fidem Wee muste needes calle to witnesse the Holy Scriptures For our iudgementes and expositions without those witnesses carrie no credit And to leaue al other like authorities that might he alleged for shorte conclusion S. Augustine saithe Solis Canonicis Scripturis sine vlla recusatione coÌ„sensum debeo I owe my consente without gaine saieinge not vnto the Doctours or Fathers but Onely vnto the Canonical Scriptures But the Bishoppes in those Councelles saithe M. Hardinge brought foorthe and folowed the expositions of the Auncient Learned Fathers And wherefore might they not What man euer taught or saide the contrarie Yet notwithstandinge they alleged them not as the fundations or groundes but onely as approued and faitheful witnesses of the Truthe Whiche thinge if M. Hardinge happily wil denie maie easily appeare by the woordes of Cyrillus pronounced and published openly in the Councel of Chalcedon Gratulamur nobis mutuò quòd nostrae vestrae Ecclesiae Fidem habent
Kingedome of God but rather Shutte it The Apologie Cap. 7. Diuision 1. And touchinge the Keies wherewith they maie either Shutte or Open the Kingdome of Heauen wee with Chrysostome saye They be the Knowledge of the Scriptures with Tertullian we saie They be the Interpretation of the Lawe and with Eusebius wee cal them the Woorde of GOD. M. Hardinge The let where by the whole Nature of man is shutte out of Heauen by the sinne of our Firste Parent is taken a wait by the Passion of Christe But because before that benefite be receiued Heauen yet remaineth shutte bothe for sinne Originall contracted and sinne actual committed wee haue neede of the Sacramentes and Keies of the Churche The Holy Fathers for good considerations grounded vpon Scripture haue diuided the Keies into the Keie of Order and the Keie of Iurisdiction And either of them into the Keie of Knowledge whiche they call also the Keie of Discretion and into the Keie of Power To these Defenders wee saie that they confounde the Keies and seme not to knowe what the Keies are Verely these be not onely the knowledge of the Scriptures nor the Interpretation of the lawe nor the VVorde of God although these also doo open or shute the Kingedome of Heauen in their kinde as Chrysostome Tertullian and Eusebius maye well saye and not onely these but also Miracles and Plagues and all other thinges whiche prepare the will or vnderstandinge of man whereby hee maye receiue the benefite of those moste principall Keies that nowe wee speake of The B. of Sarisburie Gentle Reader for the better vnderstandinge hereof it may please thée to consider that the Woorde of God according to the sundrie effectes and properties thereof hath sundrie names For example For that it encreaseth and multiplieth it is called Seede For that it cutteth the Harte and diuideth the Fleash from the Sprite it is called a Swerde For that it taketh and encloseth vs and bringeth vs togeather it is called a Nette For that it wassheth vs cleane it is called Water For that it Enflameth vs it is called Fire For that it Féedeth vs it is called Breade And euen so for that it openeth and geueth vs an entrie into the House it is called the Keie This House is the Kingedome of Heauen Christe is the Doore the Woorde of GOD is the Keie For thus saieinge M. Hardinge telleth vs Wee confounde maters and séeme not to knowe what wée saie Notwithstandinge herein we imagine nothinge of our owne but onely reporte the very Woordes and Sentences of the Ancient Learned Catholique Fathers Tertullian saithe Quam Clauem habebant Legis Doctores nisi Interpretationem Legis What Keie had the Doctours of the Lawe sauinge the Exposition of the Lawe S. Hierome saithe Duces Ecclesiae habent Claues Scientiae vt aperiant Scripturas creditis sibi Populis Vnde praecipitur vt Magistri aperiant Discipuli ingrediantur The Captaines of the Churche haue the Keies of Knowledge to open the Scriptures vnto the People to them committed Therefore Commaundement is geuen that the Maisters should open and the Scholars shoulde enter S. Ambrose saithe Remittuntur peccata per Dei Verbum cuius Leuites est Interpres Sinnes be forgeuen by the Woord of God the Expounder whereof is the Priest Thus these and other like Ancient Fathers haue opened the meaninge of these Keies And yet were they neuer therfore condemned of ignorance as menne y◠wiste not what they saide Certainely Chrysostome saithe Clauis est Scientia Scripturarum per quam aperitur Ianua Veritatis The Keie is the knowledge of the Scriptures whereby is opened the gate of the Truthe And S. Augustine saithe Clauis est dicenda qua ad Fidem pectorum dura reserantur That ought to be called the Keie where with the hardnesse of mennes hartes is opened vnto Faithe Here hath M. Hardinge wel multiplied and encreased his Keies and hathe brought vs foorthe a whole bunche of them altogeather The Keies of Orders The Keies of Iurisdiction The Keies of Discretion The Keies of Power The keies moste Principal and the Keies not so principal And thus hath he keies of Order without Iurisdiction and keies of Iurisdiction without Order keies of Discretion without Power keies of Power without Discretion And al these prety shiftes of keies hath he diuised to auoide Confusion and to make vp his tale as if the Popes Crosse Keies were not sufficient Plagues and Miracles and I knowe not what thinge els are brought foorthe vnto vs in the likenesse of Keies And this distinction and limitation of Keies saithe he hath vpon good considerations benne diuised by the Holy Fathers And yet of al these Holy Fathers for modesties sake he nameth none What answeare were it beste to make to sutche Vanities In deede when the right Keie of Knowledge was loste and gonne it was time to diuise some other pretie Pikelockes to woorke the feate Bonauentura hereof writeth thus as it is partely alleged before Omnes ferè Sacerdotes ita sunt simplices idiotae post susceptionem Sacerdotij sicut anté Dicendum ergo quòd Scientia non est Clauis Principalis nec per se sed prout iuncta est Authoritati Ligandi vel soluendi Et haec Clauis non est de Esse Ordinis sed de bene esse Al Priestes for the moste parte are as simple and as iude after the receiuinge of Priesthoode as they were before Therefore we must saie that Knowledge is not the Principal Keie not any Keie at al of it selfe but as it is ioined with the Authoritie of Bindinge or Loosinge And this Keie of Knowledge is not of the Substance of the Order of Priesthoode but of the better beinge of the same And therefore to encrease M. Hardinges number of Keies he saithe Quidam habent Scientiam Clauium quidam Clauiculam quidam nullam Somme haue the Knowledge of the Keies somme a pretie litle Keie somme no Keie at al. In this case it were good for M. Hardinge to resolue his Reader when the Prieste hath nothinge els but a Pretie litle Keie or no Keie at al what Authoritie he hath either to Open or to Shutte M. Hardinge replieth farther VVee haue Remission of Sinnes in the Ministration of the Sacramentes Therefore wee haue it not onely by the hearinge of the VVoorde of God This Obiection touched and partely answeared a litle before S. Augustine calleth the Sacramentes Verba Visibilia Woordes Visible for that in them as in liuely Images the Deathe of Christe is sensibly sette before our eies For the woorde of God is the Substance and Life of al Sacramentes and without the same Sacramentes what so euer are no Sacramentes And therefore S. Augustine saithe as it is alleged before Quare non ait vos mundi estis propter Baptismum quo lot◠estis Sed ait propter Verbum quod locutus sum vobis Nisi quia in Aqua
aquam Petra praebente potati sunt They were vnder the Clowde and were drenched vvith Christe the Rocke geeuinge them water Likewise saithe Leo Mysteria pro temporum ratione variata sunt quum Fides qua viuimus nulla fuerit aetate diuersa The Sacramentes are astered accordinge to the diuersitie of the times But the Faithe vvhereby vvee liue in al ages vvas euer one Likewise S. Augustine Sacramenta illa fuerunt in Signis diuersa in rebus quae significabantur paria These thinges were Sacramentes in the outvvarde tokens diuerse but in the thinges tokened al one vvith ours M. Hardinge wil replie S. Augustine saithe Sacramenta Noui Testamenti dant Salutem The Sacramentes of the New Testament geeue Saluation But who can better expounde S. Augustines meaninge then S. Augustine him selfe He addeth immediately Cùm ergo iam teneas promissa quid quaeris promittentia Saluatorem Hoc dico teneas promissa non quòd iam acceperimus Viram aeternam Sed quòdiam Christus Venerit qui per Prophetas praenuntiabatur Wherefore seeinge thou haste the Promisses of the comminge of Christe already perfourmed what seekest thou the thinges that Promised the Saueoure I saie Thou haste the Promisses already perfourmed not for that wee haue alreadie receiued euerlastinge life but for that Christe is alreadie comme that was promised by the Prophetes Therefore when S. Augustine saithe Our Sacramentes geue Saluation his meaninge is this Our Sacramentes teache vs that Saluation is already comme into the World Thus S. Augustine saithe in an other place Illa fuerunt Promissiones rerum complendarum haec sunt indicia completarum The Sacramentes of the Olde Lawe were Promisses of sutche thinges as should afterv vard be accomplisshed Our Sacramentes of the Newe Lawe are takens that the same Promisses be already accomplisshed Thus the Holy Fathers saie The Sacramentes of the Newe Lawe vvorke Saluation bicause they teache vs that our Saluation is already wrought So Bonauentura saithe of the Sacramentes of the Olde Testamente Mundare dicebantur id est mundatum ostendebant They were saide to make a man cleane bicause they shevved or signified that a man vvas made cleane The Apologie Cap. 11. Diuision 1. And wee doo expressely pronounce that in the Lordes Supper there is Truely geuen vnto the Beleuinge the Body and Bloud of our Lorde the Fleashe of the Sonne of God whiche quickeneth our Soules the Meate that commeth from aboue y◠foode of Immortalitie or Grace Truth Life And the same Supper to be the communton of the Body and Bloud of Christe by the partaking whereof wee be reuiued streghtened and fedde vnto Immortalitie and whereby wee are Ioined Vnited Incorporate vnto Christe that wee maie abide in him and he in vs. M. Hardinge VVhat ye proncunce of this high Sacrament the wise and careful tenderers of their soules wil be right ware thereof Of you and suche as ye be because your Doctrine is but of a corner of the worlde in respect of the Vniuersal Churche hathe geuen vs a watche woorde Nolite credere beleeue them not In your the Lordes supper celebrated by the Ministers of your owne creation there is not geeuen the Body and Bloud of our Lorde neither to the beleuing nor to the vnbeleuinge For at the celebration of your schismatical supper no * consecration being done * nor Faithe of the Churche * not right intention had * nor Christes institution obserued what deliuer ye to your communicantes but * a peece of Breade and a * sippe of VVine Neither is it * your wil it be more or better At the supper of Our Lorde ministred in the Catholike Churche by Priestes rightly consecrated and as it hath ben accustomed in Christes Churche there is the true and whole Body of our Lorde and saueour geeuen and receiued be the receiuers beleuinge or not beleuinge For when Christe gaue this Sacrament to his Disciples at his last supper after that he had consecrated the same saieing take ye eate ye this is my Body Iudas the traitour as the * Fathers teache receiued his true Body nolesse then Peter Andrewe Iohn or Iames did though they to their saluation he to his damnation Now it is to be noted how this Defender in this long sentence affecteth a certaine holy as it were and solemne eloquence and vseth a religious amplification of Woordes to set foorth the sacrament as though he had a reuerent and a godly opinion of it whereas in dede he taketh it but for a poore signe or token as their Doctoure Zuinglius dothe But suche is their crafte to purchase them credite among the people Thus offer they to the vnlearned their faire cuppes ful of venym anointinge the brimmes with Honye of sweete and Holy woordes the rather to poison them Suche complainte maketh the graue Father S. Hilary againste the Arians of his time Ingerunt nobis primū nomina Veritaùs vt virus falsitatis introeat Bonum in Ore est vt de corde malum subeat Firste saithe he they thrust me foorthe woordes of truthe that the venym of falsehed mate enter in Good is in their mouthe that out from the harte maie euil proceede And among al these woordes hee meaneth the Arians confession of their faithe I heare no where by them saide Deum dei filium God the sonne of God Right so among al these faire woordes concerning the Sacramente we heare neuer a whit saide of the real presence of Christes Body Epiphanius noteth the like crafte in Arius and so doth S. Augustine in the Pelagians Nestorius likewise spake honorably in many places of Christe and his Mother But now here would he cal her 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that is the Mother of God The Iewes also as we finde in the Gospell called our sauiour Iesus the Carpenters sonne confessed Mary to be his Mother Iames Ioseph Simon and Iude his brothers and that his sisters were among them by whom his Kinnes folke are to be vnderstanded but the sonne of God they would not acknowledge him nor in that degree honour him Better then to those Iewes can I not compare these Defenders who speake honorably of our Lordes Body and Bloud in their supper but that his Body is really that it is verely in the Sacrament of the aulter that wil not the Deuill who raigneth in their hartes suffer theire mouthes to vtter The B. of Sarisburie M. Hardinge telleth vs wée deliuer vnto the Faitheful nothing els but a péece of Breade and a slppe of Wine that wée haue neither Intention nor Consecration that our faire Cuppes be ful of Venime That our Supper is Schismatical that our Eloquence is Hypocritical that our Doctrine is Heretical that wée are like to the Pelagians to the Nestorians to the Arians and to the levves and that the Diuel raigneth in our hartes If the Truthe of God were euermore ioined with vaine speache then might M.
worlde VVhereas ye speake to Christian menne to those that be Baptized to suche as haue Faithe Yet ye tel them they maie woorke as mutche as they wil but al in vaine c. Ergo then although a liuely Faithe cannot be idle and somme true Faithe is liuely yet in an other sense there is a true Faithe whiche is not liuely but idle VVhiche true Faithe shal become liuely and haue great aide in woorkes if it wel learne to leaue idlenesse and practise that in will and harte whiche it beleeueth in vnderstandinge But whereas these Defenders woulde no helpe or aide to be in Christian mennes woorkes that Heresie maie not so escape Christe beinge demaunded of one what good he shoulde doo to obteine Euerlastinge life saide If thou wilte enter into Life keepe the Commaundementes To keepe the Commaundementes is a woorke to enter into Life is somme helpe to a man Therefore it is falsely spoken that in our woorkes there is no helpe for vs. Againe Christe saithe VVho so euer forsaketh his house or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife or children or landes for my sake be shal receiue an hundred folde and shal inherite Life Euerlastinge S. Paule saithe God wil render to euery man accordinge to his woorke To those that seeke for glorie and honour and incorruption accordinge to the sufferance of good woorkes he wil render Life Euerlastinge The B. of Sarisburie Here ye trifle M. Hardinge although not mutche bisides your common woonte yet sommewhat aboue your ordinarie Our Doctrine herein is grounded vpon these woordes of Christe When ye haue donne al saie that ye be vnprofitable â–ª Seruauntes and therefore haue deserued nothinge In deede of late yeeres this hath ben the General Doctrine of your Scholes Vita Aeterna est Merces debita pro nostris Meritis Vita Aeterna nisi esset Merces debita esset incerta Quia debitum certum est Misericordia incerta Euerlastinge Life is a rewarde dewe for our deseruinges If Euerlastinge Life were not a dewe rewarde it were vncertaine For dewe debte is certaine Mercie or sauoure is Vncertaine Thus haue you vtterly drowned the Grace of God and the Saluation that we haue onely in Iesu Christe and haue turned the most Comfortable Doctrine of the Gospel into a doungeon of Desperation Then saie you Lette the Labourers Prouerbe take place I had rather plate for nothinge then woorke for nothinge Verily M. Hardinge when other reason coulde not serue you it was reason your Labourers idle reason shoulde take place Howe be it if ye wil doo nothinge at Goddes requeste of good wil without rewarde but muste be hyered onely for your Penny then maie your Labourer be he neuer so simple easily tel you ye are not the Childe of God but onely a Hyrelinge and a Labourer For the Natural louinge Childe wil Obey his Father not for rewarde but of loue onely bicause hee is his Father Gregorie Nazianzene saithe Si Seruus es time plagas Si mercenarius tantum specta Mercedem At si supra hos es etiam Filius reuerere tanquam Patrem tuuÌ„ Bene facito quia pulchrum est obsequi Patri Et quamuis nihil aliud futurum sit tamen vel hoc ipsum erit Merces tua fecisse quod gratum esset Patri If thou be a bonde Slaue then feare the whippe If thou be a Hyrelinge then looke onely for thy rewarde But ouer and bisides these If thou be a Natural Childe then reuerence GOD as thy Father Doo vvel bicause it is good to Obey thy Father Yea and although thou shalt haue nothinge els yet euen this shal be thy revvarde that thou haste benne Obediente to thy Father S. Hilarie saithe Nos si semel ieiunamus satisfecisse nos arbitramur Si aliquid ex horreo domesticarum facultatum inopi damus implenisse nos iustitiam credimus c. Sed Propheta totum à Deo sperat totum à Misericordia eius expectat If wee faste once wee thinke wee haue satisfied If out of the barnes of Our housholde stoare wee geeue sommewhat to the Poore wee beleeue wee haue fulfilled the measure of Righteousenesse But the Prophete hopeth al of God and trusteth al of his Mercie Christe saithe to his Disciples Let your Light so shine before menne not that ye maie be rewarded but that they maie see your good woorkes and glorifie yur Father whiche is in Heauen S. Augustine saithe Minùs diligit te qui diligit aliud praeter te O God he the lesse loueth thee that loueth any other thinge bisides thee Likewise S. Basile saithe Qui non fidit suis rectè factis nec expectat ex operibus iustificari SolaÌ„ habet spem salutis Misericordias Dei He that trusteth not to his ovvne good deedes nor hopeth to be iustified by his vvoorkes hathe the Onely hope of his Saluation the Mercies of God Further ye saie A true Faithe maie be idle and vtterly without woorkes therefore ye thinke it not true that wee saie A true Faithe is Liuely and can in no wise be idle Here perhaps ye wil set Faithe vpon the Laste and Racke her to a larger â—ise For so Latomus one of your Felowes saithe that Socrates and Plato and other Heathen Philosophers had as good vnderstandinge and Faithe in Christe as had Abraham And Andradius an other of your Felowes saithe that the Heathen and Infidel Philosophers had the Righteousnesse of Faithe and Euerlasting Life His wordes be these Philosophi qui ab inani Deorum multitudine abhorruerunt c. illos tu illa Fide Deique cognitione destitutos dices per quam scilicet impius iustificatur ex qua iustus viuit The Philosophers that abhorred and shunned the vaine multitude of Goddes c. wilte thou saie they lacked that Faithe and that knovvledge of God whereby the wicked is iustified and whereby the Righteouse liueth An other or your neare Felowes saith Petrus non Fidem Christi sed ChristuÌ„ Salua Fide negauit Peter denied not the Faithe of Christe but he denied Christe his Faithe neuerthelesse beinge safe If ye cal this True Faithe M. Hardinge that maie be founde in Heathens and Infidels and maie wel and safely stande with the abiuringe of Christe then without question your True Faithe maie be without good woorkes But S. Paule whose woordes wee ought rather to credite saithe farre otherwise He that hathe no regarde to his owne specially sutche as bee of his housholde hathe denied the Faithe and is woorse then an Infidel Againe he saithe They saie they knowe God but by theire woorkes they denie God S. Iohn saithe VVho so saithe hee knoweth God and keepeth not his Commaundementes is a lyer and the Truthe is not in him S. Iames saithe Faithe without woorkes is deade And the Diuel beleeueth and tremblethe for feare But a Deade Faithe is nomore a True perfite Faithe then a Deade
Papias Apollinarius Victorinus Tertullianus Irenaeus Lactantius others desended the Heresie of the Chiliastae that saide Christe after the General Iudgemente shoulde dwel here a thousande yeeres togeather vpon the Earthe Irenae us helde that Man at the beginninge when he was firste created was vnperfite Clemens Alexandrinus and Iustinus helde That the Angels fel and effended God in that they desired the companie of Woemen But it shal be in vaine to stande longe herein For of sutche examples there is greate stoare To comme neare the purpose Theophilus calleth Epiphanius Haeresiarcham that is The Grande Captaine and Father of Heretiques Gennadius saith S. Augustine was not far of from being an Heretique S. Hierome writinge vnto S. Augustine saith thus In Epistola tua quaedam Haeretica esse iudicaui I iudged that there were certaine Heretical errours in your Epistle Pope Bonifacius 2. saide that Aurelius the Bishop of Carthage and S. Augustine and other Godly and Learned Fathers in the Councel of Aphrica were prickte on and inspired by the Diuel S. Augustine willeth S. Hierome to acknowledge his erroure and to recante Thus be saithe Accipe Seueritatem Christianam ad illud opus corrigendum atque emendandum 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 vt dicitur Cane Take vnto you Christian Seueritie to correcte and amende that Booke of yours and recante your Erroure Thus mutche I thought good briefely to touche not meaninge thereby to deface the Authoritie of the Aunciente Fathers but sommewhat to open the truthe of M. Hardinges tale and to shewe that these and other like Bishoppes and Fathers notwithstandinge they were Learned and Godly and woorthy Members of the Churche of God yet were they not voide of theire infirmities Erasmus a man of greate Iudgemente saith thus Illis temporibus ingeniosa res fuit esse Christianum In those daies it was a greate pointe of Wisedome to knowe how to be a Christian Man And againe Illa aetate in Chartis erat Fides potiùs quà m in animo ac penè tot erant Symbola quot Professores At that time of the Auncient Fathers the Faith was in Bookes rather then in the Harte And in a manner there were as many sundrie Creedes as there vvere Professours of the Faith Therefore Clemens Alexandrinus saithe the Heathens thus vpbraided the Christians for the striues and dissensions that were emong them Vos Christiani dissidetis inter vos tot Sectas habetis quae licet omnes Christianismi titulum sibi vendicent tamen alia aliam execratur condemnat Quare vestra Religio vera non est nec à Deo originem ducit Yee Christians dissente emonge your selues and mainteine so many Sectes Whiche Sectes notwithstandinge they al Claime the title of Christian Religion Yet one of them curseth and condemneth an other Therefore your Religion is not true nor hath her beginninge or grounde from God The Apologie Cap. 4. Diuision 1. What woulde these menne trowe ye haue saide in those daies Whiche side would they specially then haue takeÌ„ And whiche would they then haue foresaken Whiche Gospel would they haue beleeued Whom would they haue accoumpted for Heretiques and whom for Catholiques And yet what a stirre and reuel keepe they this daie onely vpon the twoo poore Names of Luther and Zvvinglius Bicause these twoo menne are not yet fully resolued vpon somme one certaine pointe of Doctrine therefore would they needes haue vs thinke that bothe of theÌ„ were deceiued that neither of them had the Gospel and that neither of them taught the truthe aright M. Hardinge After many thinges by these Defenders alleaged for proufe of Dissension to haue ben amonge the Apostles the faithful people in S. Paules time the Bishops and Holy Fathers of the primitiue Church whereby they woulde perswade if they coulde that theire owne diuision into sectes and dissensions is not a marke of false Doctrine at length as though they had wonne the filde and tried them selues proper men triuÌ„phing ouer vs as though we had nothing to saie with a great courage thei demauÌ„de this question of vs whiche though it be but one in effecte yet with a kinde of brauerie they seme to diuide into sundry braÌ„ches and thus they saie VVhat would these men they meane the Papistes then trowe ye haue saide in those daies VVhiche side woulde they then haue taken and whiche woulde they haue foresaken VVhiche Gospel woulde they haue beleeued VVhom woulde they haue accoumpted for Heretikes and whom for Catholikes Touchinge these foure interrogatories if we had then ben aliue beinge of the minde we be nowe of we would haue requirred you with foure answeares of the Holy and moste Learned Father S. Hierome and woulde haue saide as in the like state of times in a Learned Epistle he saide to the Learned Pope Damasus touchinge the Heresies whiche he founde in Syria at his firste cominge thither from Rome Firste Mihi Cathedram Petri fidem Apostolico ore laudatam censui consulendam inde nunc meae animae postulans cibum vnde olim Christi Vestimenta suscepi VVhiche woordes taking vpon me the Person of al Faithful and Catholike folkes thus I Englishe In these controuersies I haue thought good for counsel what I ought to beleeue to repaire to the Chaire of Peter and to the faithe of the Romaine Churche praised by Paule the Apostle owne Mouthe And from thence now require I the foode of my soule from whence I receiued the garmentes of Christe To speake the same more shortely and more plainely In the Catholike Churche I looke to haue the foode of my soule to euerlastinge Life in whiche I was firste Christened Secondely we woulde with him haue saide one speakinge for al directinge our woordes as he did to those that be of the Catholike faithe whom ye cal Papistes Vos estis lux mundi vos sal terrae vos aurea vasa Argentea hâ—c testacea vasa vel lignea Virgam ferream Aeternum operiuntur incendium Ye are the Light of the VVorlde ye are the Salte of the Earth ye are Golden and Siluerne Vessels here emonge the Gospellers are the Earthen and VVoodden Vessels which must abide the yron Rodde and flame Euerlastinge Thirdly with him one likewise bearing the person of al we would haue saide to Pius the fourth that nowe sitteth in the Peters Chaire as he then saide to Damasus Ego nullum primum nisi Christum sequens beatitudini tuae id est Cathedrae Petri Communione consocior Super illam Petram aedificatam Ecclesiam scio Quicunque extra hanc Domum agnum comederit Prophanus est Si quis in Arca Noë non fuerit peribit regnante Diluuio Makinge none but Christe firste of al whom to folowe I ioine in felowship of Communion with thy holines that is to saie with the see of Peter Vpon that Rocke I knowe the Churche is builded VVho so euer eateth the Lambe without the compasse of this
house he is Prophane If any remaine without the Arke of Noe he shal be loste when the floud raigneth Fourthly touchinge the Authours of this New Gospel with the same Hierome we saie al vnder the Person of one Non noui Vitalem Meletium respuo ignoro Paulinum Quicunque tecum non colligit spargit hoc est qui Christi non est Antichristi est â–ª Vitalis I know not Meleriê° I refuse Paulinus I wote not what he is these were head Heretikes in S. Hieromes time VVho so euer gathereth not togeather with thee Holy Pastour he scattereth abroade that is to witte who is not of Christes side he is of Antichristes side To transferre this to our selues the names changed the case remaininge like for our answeare to our Gospel prelates we saye Luther we knowe not Zuinglius Oecolampadius Bucer Peter Martyr Latimer Ridly Cranmer Hooper we reiecte and refuse Caluine Beza Iuel Pilkinton Grindal Horne and theire felowes what they are we wote not VVe see they are not gatherers withe the supreme Pastor of the Catholike Churche but scatterers The B. of Sarisburie It appeareth by that hath benne already saide that the Gospel of Christe is now misliked doubted of you as it was in Olde times of the Infidels and Heathens Chrysostome there of saithe thus Venit Gentilis dicit vellem fieri Christianus Sed nescio cui adhaeream Multae inter vos sunt pugnae Seditiones ac tumuitus Nescio quod dogma eligam quod praeferam Singuli dicunt Ego Verum dico The Infidel or Heathen commeth and saithe I vvoulde be a Christian man but I knovve not vvhom I should folovve There is mutche strife and dissenssion and trouble emongest you I cannot tel vvhat Doctrine to chuse to set before other For euery one of you vvil saie I saie the Truthe As ye agrée wel with them in Fourme of Woordes so I praie God ye agree not with them in Faith Sprite contempte of God The same Chrysostome speaking not onely of the Heretiques but also of the Faithful Christians that were in his time saith thus â–ª Hanc ob causam ridiculi facti sumus Gentibus Iudaeis dum Ecclesia in mille partes discinditur For this cause wee are scorned and laught at bothe of Iewes and Gentiles while as the Churche is thus rente into a thousande partes Therefore it was not amisse M. Hardinge to demaunde you this question whiche of these sides ye woulde haue folowed and whiche of al these Gospelles ye would haue beleeued For it maie wel be thought that being minded as they were ye woulde haue answeared as they did But ye saie yée woulde rather haue saide as S. Hierome sommetime saide to Pope Damasus touchinge the Heresies whiche he founde in Syria If ye woulde vse S. Hieromes answeare M. Hardinge saie vnto the Pope as S. Hierome saide Perhaps ye shoulde deserue no greate thankes for your laboure For S. Hierome in that selfe same place biside sundrie others vtterly denieth the Primacie of the Bishop of Rome His woordes be plaine Ego Nullum Primum nisi Christum sequens Beatitudini tuae id est Cathedrae Petri Communione Consocior I folovving no First Man that is to saie No Heade or Chiefe but Onely Christe am ioined as a felovve in Communion vnto thy Blessednesse that is to saie to Peters Chaire S. Hierome telleth the Pope He knoweth No Firste No Chiefe No Heade no not the Pope him selfe but onely Christe Againe he saithe not I am thral and subiecte to thy commaundementes But I am ioined as a Felovve in Communion vnto thy Blessednesse Felowship wil hardly stande with that Vniuersal power whiche you imagine the Pope ought to haue ouer the whole Churche of God Verily the Pope him selfe would take it in scorne if you this daie woulde folowe S. Hierome and cal him your Felowe But S. Hierome saithe He agreeth in Faithe and Religion with Damasus And what greate marueile is this that beinge a Godly Learned man he woulde leaue Vitalis and Meletius and other Heretiques and ioine him selfe to that Bishop whom he knewe to be Godly Catholique Hereof he writeth thus him selfe Vineam Christi exterminant vulpes Vt inter lacus contritos qui aquam non habent difficilè vbi Fons Signatus Horrus ille Conclusus sit possit intelligi Ideò mihi Cathedram Petri Fidem Apostoli Ore laudatam censui consulendam The Foxes destroie the Vineyarde of Christe so that emonge these broken cesternes that haue no Water it is harde to vnderstande where is that Sealed Fountaine and that Enclosed Orchard Therefore I thought it good to herken to S. Peters Chaire and to that Faithe whiche was commended by the Apostles mouthe S. Hierome from his youthe was brought vp in Rome He was Christened in Rome He had benne a Studente in Rome He had taught a Schole in Rome He had benne Secretarie to Damasus the Bishop of Rome He was a Prieste of Rome And of late they haue furnished him with a Cardinalles Hatte as if he had benne a Cardinal of Rome And as it is thought by somme sauinge for somme displeasure that certaine of the Cleregie had conceiued against him he was like to be chosen the Bishop of Rome What greate maruelle therefore is it if he had somme special affection to the See of Rome Alphonsus de Castro saâ—the That the Franciscane Freers be sworne to Duns and that he hearde a Dominicane Freere saie openly in his Sermon that he was to be suspected as an Heretique that in any thinge dissented from Thomas of Aquine There is noman lightly but hathe a special credite in somme One man before al others But how holdeth this Argumente M. Hardinge S. Hierome ioined with a Godly Bishop Ergo Wée muste ioine with a wicked Bishop Or S. Hierome agréed in Faithe and Religion with Damasus Ergo wée muste agrée with one that doothe al thinges of pourpose contrarie to Damasus So might you saie The Godly people of the Iewes were bounde to obeie Aaron and Moses Ergo al others that folowed afterwarde were likewise bounde to obeie Annas and Caiphas The Faithe of Christe M. Hardinge goeth not alwaies by Succession The Bishoppes of Rome haue benne Arians Nestorians Monothelites and otherwise founde in horrible Heresies as hereafter shal be shewed Woulde ye in sutche cases haue recourse to him that sitteth in Peters Chaire Would ye saie to sutch a one You are the Salte of the Earthe You are the Light of the Worlde Woulde ye saie This is the Faithe that was commended by the Apostles Mouthe Truely S. Hierome him selfe when he saw Abuses or Errours mainteined in the Churche of Rome made smal accoumpte of S. Peters Chaire For thus he saithe Quid mihi profers Vnius Vrbis Consuetudinem Potentia Diuitiarum paupertatis humilitas vel sublimiorem vel inferiorem Episcopum non facit Coeterùm omnes
a greate inconuenience That the Pope him selfe for as mutche as he Ministreth Sacramentes Teacheth Exhorteth and occupieth him selfe in Spiritual affaires leaste of al others is therefore the lowest and baseste of al his cleregie Nowe M. Hardinge I beseeche you consider the weight and drifte of your owne Reason The Popes Charge is Spiritual saie you Ergo the Emperoure is bounde to sv veare obedience to the Pope By what Reason maie this Reason be proued Uerily by the same good Reason ye maie saie Euery Priestes Charge is Spiritual Ergo the kinge is bounde to svveare obedience to euery Prieste Yet by sutche proper Reasons the Pope hath auanced him selfe aboue al the states and Princes of the Worlde But your Holy Father Innocentius leste he shoulde séeme to wante Scriptures for proufe hereof allegeth also the woordes of God spoken vnto the Prophete Hieremie Beholde I haue set thee ouer Nations and Kingedomes to the intente that thou maiste pulle vp and scatter and builde and plante Ergo saithe he the Emperoure is Subiecte vnto the Pope These proufes ye saye Our Defenders coulde not find Further ye saie in your sober māner VVhen wil you forsake the Schole of Lieing Truely if there be any sutch Schole M. Hardinge you maie claime of good right to be the Maister Wée are as far frō lieinge as you are from saieing the Truthe But what make these woordes of Hieremie for the Bishop of Rome Wil ye saie that the Prophete Hieremie was the Pope Or that the Kinge then was sworne to be subiecte and loial vnto him What Kinge or Prince did Hieremie subdue What People or Countrie euer did he ouerthrowe One of your owne Doctours saithe Hieremias nullum Regem deposuit Sed intelligitur positus supra Centes Regna quasi habens Authoritatem super ea in annuntiando praedicando Vera. Nō de destructione Regum Mundi sed de destructione Vitiorum plantatione Fidei morum Vt illud Pauli Dei aedificatio estis Dei Agricultura estis Hieremie deposed no Kinge But wee vnderstande that he was placed ouer Nations and Kingedomes as hauinge Authoritie ouer the same in openinge and preachinge of the Truthe He speaketh non of the ouerthrowinge of the Kingedomes of the World but of the ouerthrowinge of vices and of the planting of Faith and manners In this sense S. Paule saith to the Corinthians Ye are Goddes buildinge Ye are Goddes tillage The very Glose it selfe saithe Vt euellas Regnum Satanae vt plantes bona vt aedifices Ecclesiam I haue placed thee to roote vp not the Kingedomes of the worlde nor the states of Common Weales but the Kingedome of Satan to plante good thinges to builde vp the Churche His whole Commission was limited with these woordes Posui Verbum meum in Ore tuo I haue put my Woorde in thy Mouthe Sutche Authoritie had Elias ouer Kinge Achab. And therefore he saide vnto him It is not I that trouble Israel but thou and thy Fathers house Sutche Authoritie had Iohn the Baptiste ouer Kinge Herode and therefore he saide vnto him It is not lawful for thee to haue thy Brothers Wife If it be true that ye woulde seeme to saie that the Popes Superioritie standet onely in thinges Spiritual wherefore then doothe Pope Nicolas saie Christus Beato Petro Terreni simul Coelestis Imperij Iura commisit Christe bath geuen to Blessed Peter the Right as wel of the worldly as also of the Heauenly Empiere Wherefore then did Pope Adrian thus write vnto the Emperoure Fredericus Romae nostra Sedes est Imperatoris est A quis in Arduenna quae est Sylua Galliae Imperator quod habet totum habet à nobis Sicut Zacharias transtulit Imperium à Graecis ad Teutonicos ita nos possumus illud transferre ab Alemānis ad Graecos Ecce in potestare nostra est vt demus illud cui volumus proptereà constituti sumus à Deo super Gentes Regna vt destruamus euellamus aedificemus plantemus My Seate is in the Cittie of Rome The Emperours Seate is at Acon in Ardenne whiche is a Foreste in Fraunce VVhat so euer the Emperoure hath he hath it of vs. As Pope Zacharias translated the Empiere from Graecia into Germanie so maie wee againe translate the same from y◠Germaines to the Greekes Behold it is in our power to bestowe the Empiere vpon who wee liste Therefore are wee appointed by God ouer Nations and Kingdomes to pulle downe to roote vp to builde and to plante againe This Authoritie I trowe reacheth sommewhat further then onely to causes Spiritual One of your own Doctours saith Magis esset acceptum Deo quòd per Solum pōtificem Mundus in Omnibus regeretur It were more acceptable vnto God that the worlde in Al Maters both Spiritual and Temporal were gouerned onely by the Pope That Innocentius addeth of the Sonne and the Moone yée saye is not a Reason but a Similitude This thinge maie easily be graunted For in déede it is a Similitude vtterly voide of either VVitte or Reason But who taught the Pope so childishly to plaie with Similitudes thereby to auance him selfe and to abase the Empiere of the world Who tolde him that the Pope is the Sonne and the Emperoure the Moone Or that the Emperoure is so far inferioure to the Pope as y◠Moone is inferiour to the Sonne Isidorus that liued sixe hundred yéeres before Pope Innocentius saithe quite contrarie Per Solem intelligitur Regnum per Lunam intelligitur Sacerdotium By the Sonne vvee vnderstande the Kingdome and by the Moone vve vnderstande the Priesthoode Whereby he geueth vs to consider contrarie to the Iudgemente of your good Father Pope Innocentius that as the Moone is inferioure to the Sonne so is the Pope inferioure to the Emperoure M. Hardinge But when Constantine was Baptized he gaue place to S. Syluester then Bishop of Rome and to al other Successours of S. Peter O how that irketh your haries that so great an Emperour and the first that openly professed Christianitie shoulde by the same Holy Ghoste who called him to the Faithe of Christe be made to departe from the Cittie whiche ruled the worlde and to yelde his owne Palaice partly a Churche to our Sauiour Christe partely a dwellinge house for the Bishops of Rome Aske of Constantine why he submitted his necke to S. Syluester VVe haue cause to thinke that Constantius the heretike sonne of Constantine was not very glad of his Fathers dooinge And yet God suffered him not to retourne and dwel at Rome but to leaue that Cittie free to the Rulers of the Churche The B. of Sarisburie Constantine ye saie gaue ouer the Cittie of Rome and al the VVeaste parte of the Empiere to the Pope and to his Successours for euer And this thing erye saie yrketh our hartes ful soare Yea verily M. Hardinge it irketh vs mutche in
of Sisters and Brothers there wanted not menne whiche forged false tales vpon the same saieinge that the Christians made no difference amonge them selues either of age or of kinde but like brute beastes without regarde had to doo one with an other And whereas to praie and to heare the Gospel they mette often togeather in secrete and byplaces bicause Rebelles sometime were woonte to doo yâ— like therefore Rumours were euery were spreadde abroade that they made priuie confederacies tooke counsel togeather either to kil the Magistrates or to subuerte the Common Wealthe And whereas in Celebratinge the Holy Mysteries after Christes Institution they tooke Breade and VVine thei were therefore thought of many to woorship not Christe but Bacchus and Ceres for somuche as those vaine Goddes were woorshipped of the Heathen in like sorte after a prophane Superstition with Breade VVine These thinges were beleeued of many not bicause thei were true in deede for what coulde be more vntrue but bicause they were like to bee true and through a certaine shadowe of truthe mighte the more easily deceiue the simple On this fashon likewise doo these menne sclaunder vs as Heretiques and saie that wee haue leafte the Churche and Felowship of Christe not bicause thei thinke it is true for they doo not mutche force of that but bicause to ignoraunte folke it mighte perhaps somme waie appeare true Wee haue in deede put oure selues aparte not as Heretiques are woonte from the Churche of Christe but as al good menne oughte to doo from the infection of naughty personnes and Hypocrites Neuerthelesse in this pointe they triumphe maruciloully that they bee the Churche that their Churche is Christes Spouse the Piller of Truthe the Arke of Noe and that without it there is no hope of Saluation Contrariewise they saie that wee bee Renegates that we haue torne Christes seate that wee are plucked quite of from the Body of Christe haue foresaken the Catholique Faithe And when they leaue nothinge vnspoken that maie neuer so falsely and malitiousâ—y be saide againste vs yet this one thinge are they neuer hable truely to saie that we haue swarued either from the Woorde of God or from the Apostles of Christe or from the Primitiue Churche Surely wee haue euer iudged the Primitiue Churche of Christes time of the Apostles and of the Holy Fathers to be the Catholique Churche neither make wee doubte to name it Noes Arke Christes Spouse the Piller and vpholder of al Truthe nor yet to fixe therein the whole meane of oure Saluation It is doubtlesse an odious mater for one to leaue the felowship whereunto he hathe benne accustomed and specially of those menne whoe though they be not yet at leaste seeme to be and be called Christians And to saie truely wee doo not despise the Churche of these men how so euer it be ordered by them now a daies partely for the names sake it selfe and partely for that the Gospel of Iesus Christe hath once benne therein truely and purely set â—oorthe Neither had we departed therefrom but of very necessitie and mutche againste our willes M. Hardinge VVee graunt that in olde time slaunders were made vpon the Faithefull But no like slaunder is made by vs vpon you in the matter whereof ye speake For let vs graunt that ye haue in deede put your selues aparte and are gone from the contagion of naughtie persons and Hypocrites This is the very thinge we laie to your charge For though we were suche as for a great number ye shall neuer be able to prooue yet by Christes owne sentence ye muste doo that whiche they that sit in the chaire of Moses bid you doo although they be Hypocrites as the Scribes and Phariseis were of whome Christe spake c. But it shal be inoughe for you to doo as the Successours of Peter bid you to doo and so to folowe their saieinges and not their dooinges The Primitiue Churche is continewed with our time by the Successours of S. Peter for whose Faithe neuer to faile Christe praied and whome onely he made Shepeherde to feede all his Flocke of Sheepe and Lambes Christe now requireth of you not to obeie Peter and Paule but to obeie him who sitteth in their chaire VVhere ye saie it is an odious matter to forsake vs and yet haue foresaken vs where ye confesse that ye despise not the Churche we be of and yet graunt that ye haue departed from it how standeth this togeather Remember ye what ye saie Knowe ye what ye doo VVho will regarde your woorde whiche with one breathe saie and vnsaie If it be odious why doo ye it If ye despise not the Churche why departe ye from it The B. of Sarisburie Christe saithe The Scribes and Phariseis sitte in Moses Chaire Doo that they saie but doo not that they doo Ergo saie you Wee maie not departe awaie from the Pope How so euer it fare with your Conclusion M. Hardinge verily in your premisses yée compare the Pope and his Cardinalles with the Scribes and Phariseis And yet the Scribes and Phariseis sate in the Chaire and taught the Lavve Your Pope and Cardinalles sitte stil and teache nothinge Notwithstandinge let vs wel allowe of this Comparison Ye maie remember that Christe also saithe Woe be vnto you yee Scribes and Phariseis that shutte vp the Kingedome of Heauen before menne and neither doo you enter in your selues nor wil you suffer other that faine woulde enter Woe be vnto you yee blinde Guides Woe be vnto you that haue taken awaie the keie of Knovvledge Likewise he saithe of them vnto his Disciples Beware of the leauen of the Scribes and Phariseis Let them goe Blinde they are and the Leaders of the blinde To sitte in Moses Chaire was truely and rightly to instructe the people and to open vnto them the Lawe of Moses S. Augustine saithe Hoc ipsum quòd bona dicebant ea quae dicebant vtiliter audiebantur fiebant non erat ipsorum Cathedram enim inquit Mosi sedent That they spake good thinges vnto the people and that the thinges that they saide were profitable to the hearers and dooers of the same it was not of them selues For Christe saithe They sitte vpon Moses Chaire Againe he saithe Sedendo super Cathedram Mosis legem Dei docent Ergo per illos Deus docet Sua verò illi si velint docere nolite audire nolite facere Certè enim tales sua quaerunt non quae Iesu Christi Sittinge vpon Moses Chaire they teache the Lawe of God Therefore it is God that teacheth by the meane of them But if they wil teache you thinges of their owne then heare them not then doo it not For certainely sutche menne seeke their owne and not the thinges that perteine to Christe Jesus Ye sée therefore M. Hardinge wée are bounde to heare the Pope and his Cardinalles and other like Scribes and Phariseis not absolutely or without
the whole drifte of the letter or the very bare woordes as they lie ye mighte easily haue seene that this onely was S. Cyprians meaning His woordes be these Post ista adhuc insuper Pseudoepiscopo sibi ab Haereticis constituto nauigare audent ad Petri Cathedram vnde vnitas Sacerdotalis exorta est à Schismaticis Profanis literas ferre nec cogitare eos esse Romanos quorum Fides Apostolo praedicante laudata est ad quos Perfidia habere non possit accessum After this hauing a False Bishop appointed vnto them by Heretiques they dare to take shipping and vnto Peters Chaire and vnto that Principal Churche from whence the Priestely vnitie grewe firste to carrie letters from Schismatiques and lewde menne Neither cōsider they that the Romaines are that people whose Faith is praised by S. Paule the Apostle vnto vvhome Vnfaithfulnesse of reportes tales can haue no accesse If yee doubte of this Exposition reade these woordes touchinge the same goeinge before in the same Epistle Roman cum Mendaciorum suorum merce nauigarunt Quasi Veritas post eos nauigare non posset quae Mendaces linguas rei certa probatione conuinceret They saile to Rome with the Marchandise of their Lies as though the Truethe coulde not saile after them that by proufe of the certaintie might controlle their lieing tongues This is that Vnfaithfulnesse that S. Cyprian speaketh of and not the Vnfaithefulnesse of Faithe and Doctrine Nowe touchinge this Appealinge and fleeing to Rome leste yee shoulde thinke by occasion of these woordes that S. Cyprian alloweth it or thinketh wel of it ye shal finde in the same Epistle y◠he vtterly misliketh it condēneth it For thus he saithe Acquum est pariter iustū vt vniuscuiusque causa illic audiatur vbi crimen admissum est It is meete and right that euery mannes cause be pleaded in that Countrie where the faulte was committed c. Againe Oportet eos quibus praesumus non circumcursare It is not meete that they ouer whome wee haue Jurisdiction should renne aboute the Worlde He meaneth to Rome And againe Nisi paucis desperatis perditis Minor videtur esse Authoritas Episcoporum in Aphrica constitutorum c. Onlesse a fewe desperate and wicked menne thinke the Authoritie of the Bishoppes of Aphrica is lesse then the Authoritie of the Bishoppes of Rome By these woordes S. Cyprian maketh the Bishop of Rome equal in Authoritie vvith him selfe and other Bishoppes Wherefore I muste conclude with other woordes of S. Cyprian in the same Epistle Haec est Frater vera dementia non cogitare quòd Mendacia non diu fallant Noctē tam diu esse quoad illucescat Dies O my Brother this in deede is very madnesse not to thinke that Lies cannot longe deceiue The Nighte lasteth no longer but vntil the Daie beginne to springe The Apologie Cap. 12. Diuision 1. 2. Or if there be no perile that harme maie come to the Churche what neede is there to reteine to no pourpose the names of Bishoppes For so it is nowe commonly vsed among them For if there be no Sheepe that maie straie why bee they called Shepeheardes If there be no Cittie that maie bee betraied why bee they called VVarchemenne If there bee nothing that maie renne to ruine why bee they called Pillers Anon after the firste Creation of the Worlde the Churche of God began to spreade abroade and the same was instructed with the Heauenly Worde whiche God him selfe pronounced with his owne Mouthe It was also furnished with Diuine Ceremonies If was taught by the Sprite of God by the Patriarches and Prophetes cōtinued so euen til the time that Christe shewed him selfe to vs in the fleshe This notwithstanding how often O good God in the meane while and howe horribly was the same Churche darkened and decaied Where was that Churche then when al fleashe vpon Earthe had defiled his owne waie Where was it when amongest the numbre of the VVhole VVorlde there were onely eight persones neither they al chaste and good neither whom Goddes wil was shoulde be saued aliue from that Vniuersal destruction and Mortalitie when Elie the Prophete so lamētabldy bitterly made his moane that onely him selfe was leafte of al the Whole Worlde whiche did truely and dewly worship God and when Esaie saide The Siluer of Goddes people that is of the Churche vvas become Drosse and that the same Cittie vvhiche aforetime had ben faithful vvas novv become an Harlot and that in the same there vvas no parte sounde throughout the vvhole body from the head to the foote Or els when Christe him selfe saide that the House of God vvas made by the Phariseis and Priestes a Denne of theues Of a truthe the Churche euen as a cornefilde except it bee eared manured tilled and trimmed wil in stede of Wheate bringe foorthe Thistles Darnel and Nettels For this cause did God sende euer among bothe Prophetes and Apostles and laste of al his own Sonne who might bringe home the people into the right waie and repaire anewe the tottering Churche after she had erred M. Hardinge These and the like places haue ben already alleaged of olde time against the Catholiques by the Donatistes as S. Augustine sheweth and of late yeeres by youre scholemaister Iohn Caluine of Geneua VVe neede not to studie for newe answeres to the argument made out of these and suche other places mutche fitter for this purpose then these are sithe that the same is so wel answered by S. Augustine Oftentimes saithe he Goddes worde rebuketh the wicked sortes of the Churche so as though al were suche and none at al remained good For thereby we are warned them in their certaine number to be called al as mutche to sale al the children of hel But Sirs what if the Churche at the beginning of the worlde and at the general drowning was of smal number And what if the Synagog were sometime quite extinguished Must it therefore folowe that the church also after that God hath geuen to Christe his Sonne the endes of the worlde to be his possession maie nowe be brought to a fewe and to faile altogether VVhere was the Churche saie ye when of al the worlde there were but eight persons and they onely saued aliue from the vniuersal destruction Forsooth they were in Noes Arke And nowe haue we our Noes Arke also in whiche who so euer abideth not the same is drowned Neither were the Prophetes and Apostles sent nor Christe came him selfe to repaire a newe the Churche whiche had in faithe wholy erred but both they were sent and he came that it shoulde not wholly erre The B. of Sarisburie It is true that ye saie In the Holy Scriptures this woorde Al is often vsed in steede of Many And thus ye saie it fared with the Synagog of the Ievves for that then the Faithful were sommetimes broughte vnto a smal number sommetimes
Authoritie of the Scriptures be remoued that eche man maie be leadde by his owne fantasie what he liste either to allowe in the Holy Scriptures or to disallowe that is to saie that he submitte not him selfe touchinge his Faithe to the Authoritie of the Scriptures but that he make the Scriptures subiecte vnto him Not that he wil allowe any thing bicause it is written in that high Authoritie of the Scriptures but that he wil thinke it wel written bicause he alloweth it By meane hereof it commeth to passe that S. Hilarie writeth Qui quae scripta sunt negas quid superest nisi vt quae non scripta sunt probes For as muche as thou deniest the thinges that be written what remaineth there but that thou muste allowe the thinges that be not written Concerninge the Authoritie and Credite of Councelles wee shal haue cause to saie more hereafter But where ye require but a man of common sense to sitte as Iudge in this cause it appeareth that either ye remember not or els ye weighe not that ye immediately said before For in this selfe same Chapter ye saie The people maie not iudge of theire Bishoppes and that as ye tel vs by Christes own Doctrine For the Scholar is not aboue his Maister Yet now suddainely as hauinge foregotten youre owne woordes ye cal foorthe the Scholare yea and as it maie be thought one of the meanest of al youre Schole as a man onely endewed with common sense to sitte in Iudgement ouer his Maister Notwithstandinge God is no accepter of personnes Goddes Holy Sprite is not bounde to Councelles or Companies but breatheth freely where it listeth And therefore as youre owne Doctour Panormitane saithe in Cases of Religion the Iudgement of one Simple plaine man ought sommetimes to bee receiued before the Iudgemente of the Pope Here endeth the Fourth Parte The Fifthe Parte The Apologie Cap. 1. Diuision 1. BVt here I looke they wil saie though they haue not the Scriptures yet it maie chaunce they haue the Auncient Doctours and the Holy Fathers with them For this is a high bragge they haue euer made howe that al Antiquitie a Continual Consent of al ages dooth make on their side and that al our cases be but Newe and yester daies woorke and vntil these fewe late yeeres were neuer hearde of Questionlesse there can nothing be more spitefully spoken against the Religion of God then to accuse it of Noueltie as a mater lately founde out For as there can be no chaunge in God him selfe so ought there to be no chaunge in his Religion Yet neuerthelesse we wote not by what meanes but we haue euer seene it come so to passe from the firste beginninge that as often as God did geeue but somme light did open his Truthe vnto menne though the Truthe were not onely of greatest Antiquitie but also frō Euerlasting yet of wicked menne of the Aduersaries it was called Newfangled and of late diuised That vngraceous and bloudthirsty Haman when he sought to procure the kinge Assuerus displeasure against the Ievves this was his accusation to him Thou hast here saithe he a kinde of people that vseth certaine nevve Lavves of their ovvne but stifnecked and rebellious againste al thy Lavves When Paule also began firste to preache and expounde the Gospel at Athenes he was called a tidinges bringer of Nevve Goddes as mutche to saie as of a Nevve Religion For saide the Athenians maie wee not knowe of thee what Nevve Doctrine this is Celsus likewise when he of set pourpose wrote againste Christe to the ende he might more scornefully scoffe out the Gospel by the name of Noueltie VVhat saithe he hath God after so many ages novve at laste and so late bethought him selfe Eusebius also writeth that the Christian Religion from the beginning for very spite was called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that is to saie Nevve and Strange After like sorte these menne condemne al our maters as Strange and Nevve but they wil haue their owne whatsoeuer they are to be praised as thinges of longe continuance M. Hardinge They had saide somme what if they had proued that the doctrine of Christe had benne called nowe by them who were the professours and folowers of it But nowe reportinge that the Gentils who knewe not God as A man as the Athenians as Celsus the Ethnike and suche the like called the right and true Religion of God newe they saie nothing to any purpose But let them shewe that before the comminge of Christe any suche Religion was allowed that was newe Or that sithens Christes incarnation amonge Christian menne what so euer Religion was not shunned and reiected as heretical whiche was newe Here are they domme And yet for shewe of learning in a matter not necessarie they bringe foorth their store and declare that the doctrine and Religion of truthe was newe to them whiche knewe not God nor Christe the sonne of God whiche no man denieth Thus al menne of any iudgement maie see how fondly they reason VVe tel them that al nevve doctrine nowe in the Churche of Christe is naught and they proue that infidels haue in the time of Moses lawe and at the first preachinge of the Gospel impugned Goddes euerlastinge truthe with the odious terme and reproche of newnes Newe doctrine was good to vs at our firste conuersion from infidelitie But since that we receiued the true faithe from S. Gregorie the Bishop of Rome who conuerted the Realme of Englande to the faithe by S Augustine his legate and others sent for that godly purpose worthely we shunne and abhorre al new Gospels new faithes new doctrines new religions The B. of Sarisburie The Truthe of God neither is furthered by the face of Antiquitie nor hindered by the opinion of Noueltie For oftentimes the thinge that in deede is Nevve is commended as Olde and the thinge that in dede is Olde is condemned as Nevve If Nevvnesse in Religion in al respectes and euery waie were il Christe would not haue resembled his Doctrine to Nevve VVine nor woulde he haue saide to his Disciples I geue you a Nevve Commaundemente Neither woulde he haue called the Cuppe of Thankesgeuinge The Nevve Testamente in his Bloude Arnobius saithe Religionis Authoritas non est tempore aestimanda sed numine nec quo die sed quid colere coeperis intueri conuenit Quod Verum est Serum non est The Authoritie of Religion muste be weighed by God and not by time It behoueth vs to consider not vpon what daie but what thinge wee beganne to worship The thinge that is true is neuer too late S. Augustine saithe Quod Anterius est inquiunt Ethnici falsum esse non potest Quasi Antiquitas Vetus Consuetudo praeiudicet Veritati The Heathens saie The Religion that was firste can not be false As though Antiquitie and Olde Custome coulde preuaile againste the Truethe Againe he saithe Nec dici
Arke of Noe. The Heretique Dioscorus to geate somme credite to his Doctrine woulde séeme to bringe the descente thereof from al the Ancient Fathers of the Churche For thus he saide in the open Councel Ego testimonia habeo Sanctorum Patrum Athanasij Gregorij Cyrilli in multis locis Ego cum Patribus eijcior Ego defendo Patrum Dogmata Non trāsgredior in aliquo Et horum Testimonia non simpliciter neque transitoriè sed in Libris habeo I haue the witnesse of the Holy Fathers Athanasius Gregorius cyrillus in many places I am throwen foorth with the Fathers I defende the Fathers Doctrine I swarue not frō thē in any pointe I haue theire witnesse not barely nor by the waie but in theire Bookes So saide the Heretique Eutyches Ego legi Scripta Beati Cyrilli Sanctorum Patrum Sancti Athanasij I haue readde the Bookes of Cyrillus of the Holy Fathers and of Athanasius So saide the Heretique carosus Ego secundum expositionem trecentorum decem octo Patrum sic Credo sic Baptizatus sum Thus doo I beleue and thus was I Baptized according to the Exposition of the three hundred and eighteene Fathers in the Councel of Nice Thus y◠Arian Heretiques alleged the Authoritie of y◠Ancient Father Origen thus the Pelagian Heretiques alleged the Authoritie of S. Augustine As vpon occasion it hath benne saide before Euen with sutche truthe M. Hardinge are you woonte to blase the Armes of your Religion There is no toie so vaine or so fabulous but ye are hable by your conninge to bring it lineally either from Christe him selfe or from his Apostles or from one or other of the Ancient Fathers The Bishop of Sidon in y◠Late diete of the Empiere holden at Augusta auouched openly that ye had your whole Canon from the Apostles of Christe woord by woord euen as it is péeuishely written in your Masse Bookes Andreas Barbatius proueth the Antiquitie of y◠Cardinalles of Rome by these woordes written in the firste Booke of the Kinges Domini sunt Cardines Terrae Et posuit super eos Orbem The Corners of the Earth be the Lordes and vpon them he hath sette the world Abbate Panormitane saithe Cardinalatus est de Iure Diuino Quia Papa per Sacerdotes Leuiticos intelligit Cardinales The Cardinalship standeth by the Law of God For the Pope by the Leuitical Priestes vnderstandeth his Cardinalles Hosius séemeth to saie that Monkes haue theire beginning euen from the Apostles meaninge thereby as one of your Companions there doothe in fauoure I trowe of Religion that Christe him selfe vvas the Abbat For thus he saith Christus Dux exemplar vitae Monasticae Christe was the Captaine and samplar of Monkes life And yet the same man afterwarde as hauinge forgotten his former dreame vtterly displaceth Christe geueth the whole honoure hereof vnto Elias Elizaeus These be his woordes Elias Elizaeus Duces instituti Benedictini Elias and Elizaeus were y◠Captaines of S. Benettes order y◠is to saie thei were Blacke Monkes By like wisedome ye would séeme to fetche your Holy Water from S. Augustine This was sommetime a ioily good waie to winne credite specially whiles what so euer ye said y◠people was ready to geue you care So y◠olde Arcades saide in commendation of theire Antiquitie y◠thei were a daie or twoo elder then the Moone Saturnus beinge in Italie for y◠he was a stranger no man knew frō whēce he came therefore was called Filius Caeli was thought to come frō Heauen Romulus Alexander for that thei were borne in bastardie neuer knewe theire owne Fathers therefore to magnifie the nobilitie of theire bloude woulde be called the Children of the Goddes the one of Mars y◠other of Iuppitter With sutche Truthe and Fidelitie M. Hardinge your woonte is to painte out al the partes and members of your Doctrine For be it neuer so vaine or childishe or lately diuised yet ye beare vs in hande that your Predecessours receiued the same as you saie of theire Bishoppes and they of others theire Predecessours by order vntil they reache to your Augustine the Monke of Rome whom ye haue ful woorthily made a Sainte your Augustine yée saie receiued the same of Gregorie Gregorie of others before him and they al one of an other by continual ascente vnto S. Peter and Peter of Christe and Christe of God his Father No Heralde coulde lightly haue saide more in the mater I trowe ye woulde proue by this Ascente and Descente that God the Father made Holy VVater and said Masse In deede as wel herein as also in your emptie names of Augustine Hierome Chrysostome Ambrose Basile Cyprian Dionyse c. as I tolde you once before ye bringe vs onely a vaine shewe of painted boxes and nothinge in them For in al these Holy Fathers where finde you either your Priuate Masse or your halfe communion or your Accidentes without Subiecte or the reste of your like Vanities wherewith ye haue so longe time deceiued the worlde Leaue your dissimulation set aparte your Confectures and blinde gheasses and for your credites sake once shewe vs these thinges in the Ancient Holy Fathers and shew them plainely and in déede that wée maie thinke there is somme weight in your woorde But your owne Glose speakinge of the Ministration of the Holy Communion whiche now in your Churches in a manner is wholy abolisshed saith thus Hoc Antiquum est Nam hodiè videtur esse relictum This was the Olde order For as it seemeth nowe it is leafte Doctoure Tonstal saithe It was no Heresie to denie your Transubstantiation before your late Councel of Laterane Erasmus whoe 's iudgement I thinke ye wil not refuse saith thus In Synaxi Transubstantiationēe ser ò definiuit Ecclesia In the Holy Ministration it was longe ere the Churche determined the Article of Transubstantiation Al this notwithstandinge M. Hardinge ye blusshe not to saie that bothe these and al other your fantasies haue benne conueighed vnto you by moste certaine Succession from hand to hand from your Englishe Augustine from Gregorie from the Fathers from the Apostles from Christe and from the bosome of God him selfe The Apologie Cap. 1. Diuision 3. But howe if the thinges whiche these menne are so desirous to haue seeme Newe be founde of greatest Antiquitie Contrariwise howe if al the thinges wel nighe whiche they so greatly set out with the name of Antiquitie hauinge benne wel and throughly examined be at length found to be but Newe diuised of very late Soothely to saie no man that hath a true and right consideration woulde thinke the Iewes Lawes and Ceremonies to be Newe in deede for al Hammans accusation For they were grauen in very Aunciente Cables of greatest Antiquitie And although many did take Christe to haue swarued from Abraham and the Olde Fathers and to haue brought in a certaine Newe Religion in his owne name yet
sales hereof many Godly menne haue complained Ye haue turned godlinesse into gaine and as S. Peter saithe Through couetousnesse by fained speache yee haue made Martes and Markettes of the people One of your owne frendes saithe thus In multis Breuibus continentur tot Indulgentiae vt boni Viri mirentur vnquà m de Conscientia Papae vel alicuius boni viri potuisse illa procedere In many of theire Bookes there are conteined so many daies and yeeres of Pardonne that good menne marueile that thei coulde euer comme out by the Consente either of the Pope or of any other god man To conclude wée wil saie with S. Augustine Fratres Iesum Christum Iustum habemus Aduocatum apud Patrem Ipse est propitiatio pro Peccatis nostris Hoc qui tenuit Haeresim non fecit Hoc qui tenuit Schisma non fecit Vnde enim facta sunt Schismata Cùm dicunt homines Nos iusti sumus Nos Sanctificamus immundos Nos iustificamus impios Nos petimus nos impetramus My Brethera wee haue Iesus Christe the Righteous our Aduocate with the Father He is the Propitiation or Pardonne for our sinnes He that helde this neuer made Heresie He that helde this neuer made Schisme For whereof doo Schismes comme Hereof they comme when menne saie as now the Pope saithe Wee are righteous Wee doo make Holy the vnholy VVee doo iustifie the wicked VVee doo Praie we doo obteine The Apologie Cap. 8. Diuision 1. These menne are woonte to speake mutche of a certaine secrete Doctrine of theirs of their manifold sundrie readinges Let thē therefore bringe foorth sommewhat now if thei can that it maie appeare they haue at leaste readde or doo knowe sommewhat They haue often stoutely noised in al corners where they wente that al the partes of theire Religion be very olde and haue benne approued not onely of the multitude but also by the consente and continual obseruation of al Nations and times Let them therefore once in theire life she we this theire Antiquitie Let them make appeare to the eie that the thinges whereof thei make sutche a doo haue taken so long and large encrease Let them declare that al Christiā Nations haue agreed by consente to this theire Religion Nay nay they turne theire backes as we haue said already and flee from theire owne Decrees and haue cut of and abolished againe within ashorte space the same thinges whiche but a fewe yeeres before them selues had established for euermore foresooth to continewe Howe should one then truste them in the Fathers in the Olde Councelles and in the Woordes spoken by God They haue not good Lorde they haue not I saie those thinges whiche they boaste they haue thei haue not that Antiquitie thei haue not that Vniuersalitie they haue not that Consent neither of al places nor of al times And though they haue a desire rather to dissemble yet they themselues are not ignorant hereof yea and sommetime also thei let not to confesse it openly And for this cause they saie that the ordinaunces of the Olde Councelles and Fathers be sutche as maie nowe and then be altered and that sundrie and diuers Decrees serue for sundrie and diuers times of the Churche Thus lurke they vnder the name of the Churche and beguile seely creatures withe theire vaine glosinge It is to be merueiled that either menne be so blinde that thei can not see this or if thei see it that they can be so patient so lightly so quietly to beare it M. Hardinge Here is mutche a doo and as some saie greate boste and smal roste many wordes litle matter The sense of these wordes if I be not deceiued resembleth M. Iewels chalenging sprite as like as an E We resembleth a sheepe VVhat we can bringe foorth we saie not Neither thinke wee it necessary at your requeste to shewe what we haue reade and what we knowe Bosting and bragging shewes we leaue to you that you require hath ben sufficiently declared other wheres Al thinges are not to be saide at al times Yet two of your lowde lies besides other that you make here I wil be so bolde as to discouer The decrees of the late Tridentine Councel for that is it that you meane although they be not yet in al place moste exactely obserued yet be they not repealed cut of and abolished againe as you saie And what a fowle lie is that other where you saie that our selues acknowledge and confesse openly that the faith and Doctrine whiche we holde is not Auncient and Vniuersal for times places and consente of al VVhat els meane we when we chalenge vnto vs and claime the Catholike Faithe But this is your accustomed slender Rhetorike when proufes and argumentes of truthe faile you to vse the figure of impudent lieinge and saie that we our selues confesse it to be true whiche you impute vnto vs. VVhat so euer you saie in this place we maie of right retourne it euer to you So we do and so take you it c. And for ought that I can se yet as your Synagog had of late the beginninge so it is like shortely to haue an endinge The B. of Sarisburie Of al these woordes and others moe so vaine as many there is not one woord woorthe the answearinge What affiance M. Hardinge and his frendes haue in theire Antiquitie it maie appeare by the laste Diuision The Apologie Cap. 9. Diuision 1. But whereas they haue commaunded that those Decrees should be voide as thinges nowe waxen too olde and that haue loste theire grace perhaps they haue prouided in theire steede certaine other better thinges and more profitable for the people For it is a common saieinge with them that if Christe him selfe or the Apostles vvere aliue againe thei could neither better nor more Godly gouerne Gods Churche then it is at this presente gouerned by thē They haue put sommewhat in theire steede in deede but it is chaffe in steede of vvheate as Hieremie saith sutche thinges as according to Esaies woordes God neuer required at theire handes They haue stopped vp saith he al the vaines of the cleare springing vvater haue digged vp for the people deceiuable puddlelike pits ful of mire and filth vvhiche neither haue nor are hable to holde pure vvater They haue plucked awaie from the people the Holy Communion the VVoorde of God from whence al comforte shoulde bee taken the true Worshippinge of God also and the right vse of Sacramentes and Praier and haue geeuen vs of their own to plaie withal in the meane while Salte Water Oile Boxes Spittle Palmes Bulles Iubilees Pardons Crosses Sensinges and an endelesse rabble of Ceremonies and as a man might terme them with Plautus prety games to make sporte withal M. Hardinge Raile and reuel whiles ye wil the Churche is gouerned by disciline If Christe himselfe or his Apostles wee aliue againe the worde that is to saie the Doctrine of
of the Romaine Churche is the infallible Rule of Faithe from the vvhiche the Holy Scripture taketh her force And Indulgences and Pardonnes saithe he are not made knovven to vs by the Authoritie of the Scriptures but they are knovven to vs by the Authoritie of the Romaine Churche and of the Bishoppes of Rome vvhich is greater then the Scriptures Pigghius also letteth not to saie that without the licence of the Romaine Church we ought not to beleue the very Plaine Scriptures Mutch like as if any of those that cannot speake pure and cleane Latine and yet can babble out quickely and readily a litle somme sutche Lawe Latine as serueth the Courte woulde needes holde that al others ought also to speake after the same waie that Mammetrectus and Catholicon spake many yeeres agoe and whiche themselues doo yet vse in pleadinge in Courte for so maie it be vnderstoode sufficiently what is said mennes desires maie be satisfied that it is a fondenesse nowe in the later ende to trouble the worlde with a newe kinde of speakinge and to cal againe the olde finenesse and eloquence that Cicero and Caesar vsed in theire daies in the Latine tongue So mutche are these menne beholden to the folie darkenesse of the former times Many thinges as one writeth are had in estimation oftentimes bicause thei haue benne once dedicate to the Temples of the Heathen Goddes Euen so wee see at this daie many thinges allowed highly sette by of these menne not bicause they iudge them so mutche woorthe but onely bicause they haue benne receiued into a custome and after a sorte dedicate to the Temple of God M. Hardinge Ye haue neuer donne with the Churche of Rome I cannot blame you For so long as that standeth without ye repente and tourne ye shal neuer be taken but for sutche as ye be Schismatikes and Heretikes But alas poore soules what thinke ye to ouerthrowe that Churche builded vpon the rocke Peter againste whiche hitherto neither tyrauntes nor Heretikes farre passinge you in lerninge and honestie of common life coulde euer preuaile Trowe ye to extinguishe that faithe of the Romaine Churche whiche is the same that was the faithe of Peter for which Christe praied that it should neuer faile Ye laboure in vaine VVel may Sathan winne you the Churche whiche our Lorde praied for by you shal he neuer winne Geue ouer therefore your vaine and wicked attemptes Trust not in the patches that falsely ye allege out of Canonistes gloses scholemen riminge poetes Heretikes and who so euer be they neuer so bad Some ignorant persons maye ye deceiue whose sinnes deserue the same VVhat Syluester Prierlât saieth I minde not here to discusse Neither where he saithe that you alleage haue you thought good to tel vs lest by perusinge the place we shoulde take you in a lie as we haue almoste in al your other allegations The like sinceritie you use in alleaginge Pighius VVe binde our selues neither to the wordes of Syluester nor of Pighius If they erre what is that to vs Let them beare theire owne burthen If they tel truth we beleue them for truthes sake If otherwise we leaue that parte for you to carpe If Syluester Prierias saide that for pointes of belefe the Doctrine of the Romaine Churche is a squire to trie theire truthe by the same beinge wel vnderstanded is right true Likewise if Pighius saie that the Romaine Churche sheweth vnto vs which be the approued and vndoubted scriptures and whiche be not this is so true as your selfe I suppose wil yelde thereunto As for that the scripture receiued from the Churche of Rome Authoritie credite and force if in your meaninge you exclude God that is your lie not Syluesters sentence If relation be made to vs that we ought not geue credite vnto it onlesse it had ben shewed to be holy scripture by the Romaine Church whiche is the true Churche of Christe in this sense be it Syluester or who els so euer saithe it it is a true saieinge and agreable to S. Augustine Ego Euangelio non crederem nisi me Catholicae Ecclesiae commueret Authoritas I woulde not beleue the Gospel except the Auctoritie of the Catholike Churche moued me And for that you alleage out of him touchinge indulgences truthe it is the ful and whole knowledge of them is not plainely opened vnto vs by expresse and euident wordes of Scripture no more then the mysterie of the blessed Trinitie baptizinge of infantes and many other truthes but rather by the doctrine of the Romaine Churche VVhere you tel vs of Pighius that he letteth not to saie that without the licence of the Romishe Churche for in that word you please your selfe wel we ought not to beleue the very plaine scriptures we wil proclaime you a lyer vntil you shewe vs where he spake so farre beside reason and lerninge The holy Churche doth not wil vs to staie from belefe of the scriptures vntil we haue licence but by al waies and meanes inuiteth and stirreth vs to beleue the truthe in the scriptures vttered The B. of Sarisburie The greatest weight hereof vpon twoo of your Doctoures Syluester Prieriâs and Albertus Pigghius Whoe 's credite notwithstandinge yée woulde faine otherwise saue vpright yet here as it séemeth ye are contente for shame to géeue them ouer VVe binde our selues yée saie neither to the woordes of Syluester nor of Pigghius If they erre what is that to vs This shorte and blunte answeare notwithstandinge it séeme to like wel you yet perhaps Prieriâs and Pigghius it woulde not like I sée no greate cause to the contrarie but either of them might as wel renounce your Authoritie and saie of you Wée are not bounde neither to M. Hardinges woordes nor to his felowes For that yée doubte the Truthe of our allegations reade Syluester Prieriâs Maister of the Popes Palace in his Booke entituled Contra praesumptuosas Martini Lutheri Conclusiones de potestate Papae His wordes there emongest others be these Quicūque nō innititur Doctrinae Romanae Ecclesiae ac Romani pōlificis tanquam Regulae Dei infallibili à qua etiam sacra Scriptura robur trahit Authoritatem Haereticus est Who so euer leaneth not to the Doctrine of the Romaine Churche and of the Bishop of Rome as vnto the infallible Rule of God of vvhiche Doctrine the Holy Scripture taketh force and Authoritie he is an Heretique Againe he saithe Authoritas Romanae Ecclesiae Romanique pontificis maior est c. The Authoritie of the Romaine Churche and of the Bishop of Rome is greater then the Authoritie of Goddes woorde As for that is here alleged of Pigghius it is the very sounde and sense of the greatest parte of his Common place De Ecclesia Of whoe 's iudgemente herein M. Caluine writeth thus Pighius ait Nullius Scripturae Authoritate quantum libet Clarae nostro quidem
of him selfe but of Freere Eckius that disputed against him Eckius and his felowes neuer beganne this mater for Goddes sake nor for Goddes sake wil they ende it For he sawe they had begonne were bente to ende it againste God as beinge enflamed with ambition and malice and procured and hired by the Pope Euen so M. Hardinge maie wée also truely saie You and your Felowes haue not begonne these your Contentious Vanities for Goddes sake nor for Goddes sake wil you ende them The Apologie Cap. 16. Diuision 8. Wherefore if thei wil weigh al these thinges with a quiet minde fully bente to heare to learne thei wil not onely allowe this determination of ours whoe haue foresaken Errours folowed Christe and his Apostles but themselues also wil foresake their owne selues and ioine of theire owne accorde to our side to goe with vs. Here endeth the Fifthe Parte The Sixthe Parte The Apologie Cap. 1. Diuision 1. BVt peraduenture they wil saie it was treason to attempt these maters without a sacred General Councel For that therein consisteth the whole force of the Churche there Christe hath promised he wil euer be a presente assistant Yet they themselues without tarrienge for any General Councel haue broken the Commaundementes of God and the Decrees of the Apostles and as wee said a little aboue they haue spoiled and disanulled almoste al not onely the Ordinaunces but euen the Doctrine of the Primitiue Churche And where they saie It is not lawful to make a chaunge without a Councel what was he that gaue vs these Lawes or from whence had they this Iniunction M. Hardinge If general Councels continewe in that estimation and Auctoritie they haue euer had theire priuate conspiracies and false conueiances in corners be like to be dasshed Nowe priâ—keth foorth theire Secretary who thinketh him self a fresh souldier in Rhetorike and geueth the onsette vpon vs with a blinde peraduenture But Sir what so euer you imagine vs to saie touchinge a General Councel we are not so simple as to graunt whiche your Peraduenture semeth to surmise of vs that your Heretical and moste vngodly matters whiche you speake of might without blame be attempted by licence of any Councel Sutche wicked changes in religion as ye haue made neither is it lawful to make with a Councel nor without a Councel The Apologie Cap. 1. Diuision 2. In deede King Agesilaus did but fondely who when he had a determinate answeare made him of the opinion and wil of mighty Iuppiter woulde afterwarde bringe the whole matter before Apollo to knowe whether he woulde allowe thereof as his Father Iuppiter had donne or no. But yet shoulde wee doo mutche more fondely when we heare God him selfe plainely speake to vs in his most Holy Scriptures and maie vnderstande by them his wil and meaninge if wee would afterwarde as though this were of none effecte bring our whole cause to be tried by a Councel which were nothinge els but to aske whether menne would allowe as God did and whether menne woulde confirme Goddes Commaundemente by theire Authoritie M. Hardinge For as mutche as the scriptures wherein God speaketh vnto vs be in sundrie places not moste open and plaine to humaine senses and many by mistakinge them be deceiued were it not wel done of you for the more suretie and better vnderstandinge of that ye goe about I meane in matters concerninge religion to folowe the iudgemente of the Catholike Churche represented in general councels Yea we saie boldely that surer it is in pointes of faithe to leane to the exposition of the Fathers agreinge togeather and to folowe the tradition of the Churche then to trust to your selues or to the letter of the scriptures scanned onely by your owne wittes For the Churche is promised to be lead into al Truthe by the holy Ghost Ye cannot saie any such promise hath ben made to your particulare company Therefore it were not fondly done as ye saie but wisely saie we if ye tried and examined your Doctrine which ye pretende to be according vnto the Scriptures by the rule of Ecclesiastical Tradition which is the chiefe rule to trie euery Doctrine by The B. of Sarisburie Wée neuer despised the iudgemente of the Learned and Holy Fathers but rather take them and embrace them as the Witnesses of Goddes Truthe And therein wée finde you the more blame woorthy M. Hardinge for that hauinge without cause renounced the iudgemente and orders of the Primitiue Churche and Anciente Fathers as to the wise and Learned it maie soone appeare yet neuerthelesse yée euermore make vaunte of your Antiquitie and fraie the world with a visarde of the Churche a shewe of Olde Fathers as if a poore Sommonere that had loste his Commission would serue Citations by the vertue of his emptie bore And thus haue ye set al your vaine fantasies in place of Goddes Churche and your Churche in place of God as by the woordes and witnesse of your owne Felowes I haue before shewed more at large For example Cardinal Cusanus saith Nulla sunt Christi Praecepta nisi quae per Ecclesiam pro talibus accepta sunt The Commaundementes of Christe are no Commaundementes Onlesse they be so allowed by the Churche Thus yée leaue Iuppiter and renne to Apollo or rather yée foresake God séeke to Man as it is written in the Prophete Hieremie Yee leaue the Fountaine of the Water of Life and rippe vp broken and filthy Cesternes that can holde no Water Tertullian thus vpbraideth the Heathens Apud vos de humano arbitratu Diuinitas pensitatur Emonge you the right of God is weighed by the iudgemente of menne But Clemens Alexandrinus saithe Quoniam ipsum Verbum ad nos venit de Coelo noÌ„ est nobis ampliùs eundum ad Humanam Doctrinam For so mutche as the Worde it selfe that is Christe is comme to vs from Heauen wee maie not nowe any more seeke vnto the Doctrine of Man Likewise S. Chrysostome saithe Fuisset extremae absurditatis eum qui edoctus fuerat à Deo postea cum hominibus communicate It had benne greate folie for S. Paule hauing receiued his Doctrine from God him selfe afterward to conferre thereof with menne that is to saie with Peter or Iames or with any others The Apologie Cap. 1. Diuision 3. Why I beseche you except a Councel wil and commaunde shal not Truthe be Truthe or God be God If Christe had meante to doo so from the beginninge as that he woulde preache or teache nothinge without the Bishoppes consente but referre al this Doctrine ouer to Annas Caiphas where shoulde nowe haue benne the Christian Faithe Or who at any time shoulde haue hearde the Gospel taught Peter verily whom the Pope hath oftener in his mouthe more reuerently vseth to speake of then he dooth of Iesus Christe did boldely stand against the Holy Councel saieing It is better to obey God then Men. And after yâ— Paule
ad Catechumenos Paschasius De Coena Domini Tvvo Sacramentes Bessarion De Sacramento Eucharistiae Concil Triden Session 7. In Captiuitate Babylonica In Apologia Confessionis Augustinae Baptisme very sclenderly spokeÌ„ of by the Defenders Baptisme taught by our Nevve cleregie to be but a Signe and seale of our nevve birth * Vntruthe For vve saie noâ— so That in Baptisme sinnes be fully and truly forgeuen Cap. 36. Timot. 3. * This talke is needelesse and out of season * These vvoordes maie vvel perteine to M. Har. him selfe For vve sai not thus Pelagians belied the Catholikes as the Sacramentaries do also novve Vntruthe ioined vvith grosse ignorance M. Har. fouly mistaketh S. Augustines minde * Vntruthe fond and vaine Reade the Ansvveare Augustin in Iohan tracta 5. De Conse dist 4. Baptismus talis Iohan. 1. Augustin De Libero Arbitrio Li. 3. Ca. 22. Augustin De Verbis Apostolâ— Sermo â–ª 10. The Faith of the Infantes Hieronym in Ezechiel ca. 16. De Consecra Dist 4. Verus Actor 15. 1 petri 3. Augustin in Iohan. tracta â—0 Augustin Epist 205. Augustin Epist 23. In eadem Episto Catharinus contra Caietanum errore 87. 88. Augustin in Iohan. tracta 80. De Con. dis 4. Aliud est Augusti epist 23. The Povver of Baptisme August Epist 23. Iohan. 1. 1. Iohan. 1. Cyprian De Baptismo Christi Hieronym in Esaâ—am Cap. 4. Hierony ad Galat Cap. 3. Roman 7. Ambros Lib. 10. Epist 84. 1. Iohan. 1. August contra Iulian. li. 5. ca. 3. Augu in Iohan. Tracta 41. Concupiscence is Sinne. Albertus Pighiin Controuer de Peccato Originis Concil Trident. Session 5. Roman 8. * VVee vtter as many Syllables of Real PreseÌ„ce as Christe euer vttered The Lordes supper vvith the Defenders is an euident token of the Body and Bloude of Christe * Vntruthe ioined vvith sclauÌ„der and malice * Vntruthe sclaunderous as the Former Euen as vvel as by the VVater in Baptisme Faithe doth al. The Catholike Doctrine touchinge the Sacramente of th aulter * Vntruthe coÌ„trarie to the Ancient Fathers Reade the Ansvveare Vntruthe vvithout sense or sauoure No Catholique Father euer taught this peeuishe Doctrine * Vntruthe and one of M Harmystical dreames A threefold distinction to be considered in the Doctrine of this Sacramente Vntruth horrible and Heathenishe Indistinct speakinge of distinct thinges Faithe Eateth Al this is onely M. Hardinges discante VVee admit Figures for Figures and Truthe for Truthe Augu. in Iohan. Tracta 52 Augu. De Trinitate Li. 13. Ca. 1. Augustin in Psalm 75. Hieronym De 7. Ordinib Eccle De gradu 7. Ambros De Virginib Lib. 2. Faithe Eateth Euthymi in Iohan. Cap 9. Augu. Epist 117. Basilius De SaÌ„cto Baptismo Hieronym in 1. Cor. 15. Dionysius Ca. 2. Ambro. in Epist ad Rom. Cap. 6. Ignatius ad Trallianos De Conse Dist â— Tribus gradib in Glossa DiffereÌ„ce bitvvene c. August Epist 23. ad Bonifacium Articulo 21. De Conse dist 2. Non iste Rabanus Lib. 1. Cap. 31. Chryso in Matthae Homil. 11. August De Doctrina Christiana Lib. 3. Cap. 5. Deuoute lookers on doo Spiritually CoÌ„municate * Vntruthe For the Catholique Fathers CoÌ„demned them Vntruthe For S. Chrysostome calleth them impudentes improbos Ad â—phes Homil 3. A Vntruthe coldely auouched Reade the Ansvveare Calixtus alleaged for Anacletus The Defenders require more of the Catholikes then they performe them selues The place of Anacletâ— discussed B Vntruthes three togeather As shal appeare B Vntruthe three togeather As shal appeare The beste Disshe This CommauÌ„demeÌ„s of receiuing the CoÌ„munion geuen by Anacketâ— perteineth only to the Ministers of the Church in solemne Feastes * Vntruthe plaine and manifest Reade the Ansvveare * Vntruthe For in the Apostles Canons it is vvritten thus Quicunque Fideles ingrediuÌ„tur in EcclesiaÌ„ c. Canone 10. See the 9. Canon of the Apostles 1. Corinth 11. De Con. Dist 2. Non iste Hieronym ad Hedibiam Cyprian De Coena Domini Cyprian De Natiuitate Christi August in Psalmum 57. Priuate Masse Suidas Esai 29. Chrysost ad Ephes Homil. 3. Impudens Improbus Not Seldome Anacletus Calixtus De Con. Dist 1. Episcopus De Con. Dist 2. Peracta Artic. 4. Diui. 3. De Con. Dist 2. Peracta In Glossa Anacletus Calixtus Canon Apostol Canon 10. Canon Apost Can. 9. In Margine Concil Antiochen Can. 2. Concil Aquisgran Cap. 70. Clemens Epist 2. Ambros in 1. Corinth 1â— Chrysostom in 2. Thessal Homi. 4. Durandus in Rational Li. 4. Cap. 55. Hugo Cardina in Luc. Cap. 24. Iohan. Cochlae Contra Muscul De Sacrificio In. Clichthoueut in Canon Missae Dâ— Consec Dist Comperioâ—â—s CoÌ„munion vnder both kindes not coÌ„maunded expressely by Christe nor ordeined by the Apostles * Vntruthes three togeather boldely presumed †To prooue a Negatiue it is a folie But you shal neuer proue the Affirmatiue * Certainely yenough For in the same tvvoo Articles ye haue vttered threescore and foure greate Vntruthes An vnshamefaste and sclaunderouse lie â–ª ‡ Vntruthe so sensible and so grosse that a man maie feele it vvith his fingers * Vntruthe No Learned Father euer called the Sacramente his God or Maker Institution in Bothe Kindes De Miss Publica Proroganda Cassander 〈◊〉 Viraque Specie Pa. 29. Chrysost in 1. Corin. Homi. 27. Theophylact. 1. Corinth 11. Paschasius De Con. Dist 2. Quia Passus Nicola Cusanus Epist 2. ad Bohaemos August contra Epist Parmeniani Lib. 3 Cap. 2 Hilar. De Trinitaae Lib. 9. M. Hardinge Pag. 48. b. Leo Sermon 4. De Quadragesima De Coâ—s Dist 2. Comperimus Chrysostom ad Popul Antioch Homil. 61. In Epist ad Ephes Homul 3. August in IohaÌ„nem tract 59. Chrysost in Iohan Homil. 3. In Iohan. Ca. 6. De Sacr. Lib. 4. Cap. 4. Substance Accidentes In Dialogis 1. 2. In Sermon ad Infantes In Matth. Homil 15. VVhat is that vve cal holy and heauenly Mysteries * Vntruthe No Doctour or Father euer taught sutche vaine foâ— lies Matthae 26. Luc. 22. 1. Corinth 10. 1. Corinth 11. Cyprian in Oratio Dominicam Augustin De Fide ad Petrum Ca. 19. Cyrill in Iohan. Lib. 4. Cap. 24. In and By. The Defenders refuse to speake as the Church speaketh * Vntruthe For this phrase is vsed commonly of the Ancient Fathers as shal appeare Roman 6. Coloss 2. Hieronym De Corp. Sanguine Christi Augustin in Iohan tracta 50. Cyrill in Iohan. Lib. 11. Cap. 27. Hilarius De Trinit Lib. 8. August De Baptismo contra Donatist Lib. 3. Cap. 10. VVhat Presence of Christe in the Sacrament doo the Defenders acknovvledge Absente in Body * Vntruthes tvvo togeather For properly and in SubstaÌ„ce vvee receiue it not Reade the Ansvveare * Vntruthes tvvo togeather For properly and in SubstaÌ„ce vvee receiue it not Reade the Ansvveare The Body of Christe not receiued by Faithe onely ‡ VVe ansvveare It is a peeuishe question * Vntruthe For Christe meante no suche thing as appeareth by the Fathers ‡
It shal be shevved Reade the Ansvveare O so careful this good man is for our cares ‡ Vntruthe Manifeste Reade S. Augustines vvoordes in the Ansvveare Lib. 5. Hypognosticâ—n Haeres 88. * Vntruthe For the margine vvas so noted by Erasmus VVhat is that S. Augustine doubted of touchinge Purgatory ‡ Vntruth blasphemoê° against the Bloude of Christe Reade the Ansvveare * O graue Commentarie and a vviâ—e mater to be called in question Scriptures to proue Purgatorie ‡ This vvhole mater is concluded vvith seeminge and likely hoode * Double Fire in Purgatorie Double Folie De Ciuita Dei Lib. 21. Cap. 26. Iohan 5. Esai 53. Coloss 2. Apocal. 14. Apocal. 7. Bernard in Cantica Serm. 65. August ad Laurenti Ca. 67. Dist 29. ScienduÌ„ August In 8. qu. ad DulcitiuÌ„ q 1. Augu. De Ciuit. Lib. 21. Cap. 21. ‡ It maie be a question * Perhaps it is true Augu. De Fide Operib ca. 16 Quantum arbitror S. Augustine doubteth ‡ As mutche as I thinke Augu. De Ciuit. Lib. 21. Cap. 27. * NoÌ„ potui I coulde neuer attaine to the knowledge Aeneid 6. Augustin in Psalm 25. Double Fiere Augu. De Verbis Domini Serm. 59 Chrysost in Genes Homil. 44. Chrysost De B. Philogonio Sir Thomas Moore Zachar. 9. The Bishop of Rochester Psalm 65. August Hypognosti Lib. 5. S. Augustine denieth Purgatorie Fourthe place August Epist 80. August in Apocalyp Homil. 11. August ad Petrum Diacon Cap. 3. Augustin in Iohan Tracta 49. Olympiodorus in Ecclesiast Ca. 9. Polydor. De Inuentorib Lib. 8. Cap. 1. Ceremonies * Vntruthe For S. Augustine speakinge of his time saithe Tam multis Praesumptionibus ita plena sunt omnia c. ‡ Then be yee circumcised as Paule vvas For this vvas onely a Ievvishe Ceremonie August Epist 119 August in ead Epistol Chrysost in Matthae Homil. 52. Cyrill in Iohan. Lib. 8. Cap. 1. Socrates Lib. 5. Cap. 22. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Socrates eod loco August Epist 19. Dist 63. Quia Sancta August Epist 119 Chrysost in Matthae Homil. 52. Hieremi 23. Hieremi 2. Hieremi 23. Esai 1. Matthae 15. Ierem. Cap. 2. 11. There is but one Mediatour of Saluation vvho is Christe onely But the Sainctes his frendes be Mediatours of Intercession 2. Corin. 1. * This is M. Hardings legierdumaine For vvee speake onely of sutche Mediatours as vvee ought to praie vnto ‡ As if S. Paule had euer vvilled vs to Praie to Sainctes Mediatour of Saluation Psalm 138. Sainctes be peculiar patrones of certaine places Sapien. 3. * Vntruthe procedinge of vaine dotage ‡ A graue Authoritie taken oute of the very Portuise In fine Lib. S. commeÌ„t in Lucam ‡ This is the certainetie of M. Hardinges Praier It hangeth of a blinde coniecture Intercession of the blessed Virgin Mary * It is a greatter Grace to be the Childe of God Roman 8. Marie Mother to al that loue Christe Iohan. 19. Spiritual familiaritie vvith the mother of God in excesse of minde and soueraine Deuotion ‡ Open Blasphemie is Spiritual dalliance O vvheu vvil M. Hardinge confesse a faulte Mediatour of IntercessioÌ„ Ambrosi in Sermone 6. De S. Margareta Rom. 8. 1. Timoth. 2. Augustin Contra Epist Parmeniant Lib. 2. Cap. 8. Augustin in eod Lib. Distincte Offices Epiphani Li. 3. Hares 59. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Augusti De Ciuita Li. 4. Ca. 22 Copus Dialog 3. Pag. 340. Mother of God Childe of God Bembus in Epist ad Carolum 5. Concil Trident. Session 2. Concil Oxoniens 1. Corin. 10. Augustin De Sancta Virginitate Cap. 3 Augustin in Iohan tracta 10. Epiphani Li. 3. Hares 59. Contra Collyridian Origen in Lucam Homil 25. Ambros ad Roma Cap. 1. ‡ A vaine folie For Gods Lavve vvas vvritten for Men in Earth not for Angels in Heauen God commaundeth not that vvhiche is impossible to a man in grace * A horrible heresie S. Augustine saithe Deus iubet aliquae quae non possumus facere ‡ A fonde question For God punisheth Infantes for theire Original Sinne yet are theie by no meanes hable to avoide it Deut. 30. Rom. 10. Matthae n. 1. Iohn 5. * The cause hereof is Gods Mercie S. Augustine saithe Omniae mandata facta deputantur quando quicquid non factum est ignoscitur * Vntruthe For vve make not god Vniuste but vve Confesse our selues to be finners Deuter. 6. Matthae 22. Deuter. 17. Deuteron 27. Calat 3. Iacob 2. Matthae 5. Hieronym ad Câ—esiphons contra Pelagianos Possibilitie of the Lavve Augustin De â—â—ati libero Arbitr Cap. 4. Hieronym ad Ctesiphont contra Pelagianos Hieronym coÌ„tra Pelagianos li. 1. Augustin De Spiritu Litera Cap. 1. Matthae 5. Philip. 3. Hieronym Aduersus Pelagian Lib. 1. Vnperfite PerfectioÌ„ Hieronym ad Câ—esiphont Augustin ad Bonifacium Li 3. Cap. 7. Augustin Retracta li. 1. ca. 19. Augustin De Spiritu Litera Cap. 35. Hieronymus ad Aâ—gasiam Hieronym in Ezechiel li. 14. Cap. 46. Augustin De Ciuita Lib 19. Cap. 27. Merite and Mercie * No aide or helpe vnto Saluation Othervvise this report is Vntrue ‡ Nazianzen Si mercenarius es tantùm expecta mercedem De Sancto Baptism * Is not this a folie M Hard. Goddes Truthe is no mockerie ‡ Vntruthe For vve saie vvith S. Paule your vvoorkes shal not be in vaine in the Lorde * Vntruthe Reade the ansvveare ‡ Vntruthe For it is no Heresie it is the Faithe of Christ Reade the Ansvveare That good vvoorkes helpe vs. Matthae 19. Luc. 17. Gregori NaziaÌ„ De Sancto Baptismate 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Merite and Mercie Hilari in Psalm 118. Matthae 5. Augustin Confession Basil in Psal 32. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Illyricus De Sectis Pag 93. Kemnitius in examine TrideÌ„t Concilij Pag. 535. Copus Dialo 1. Pag. 51. 1. Timothe 5. Fidem abnegauit Tit. 1 1. Iohn 2. Iacob 2. Augustin in Euangel Iohan. Sermo 61. Augustin De Fide Operib Cap. 23. Ambros Li. 6. Epist 36. Origen in Epist ad Roman Li. 8. Cap. 10. Origen in Ezechiel Homil. 9. Apocalyp 14. Matthae 10. 1. Corin. 15. Iob 9. Iob. 9. Esai 64. Augustine De Tempore Sermo 49. Augustin Epist 52. ad Macâ—don Augustin De Spiritu Litera Cap. 33. Augustin in Psalm 137. Hieronym in Esai Cap. 64. Origen ad Roma Li. 4 Cap. 4. Origen in Matt. tracta 8. Augustin in Psalm 94. VValden contra VViclefum Roman 8. Apocalyp 22. Apocalyp 21. Origen ad Roman Li. 9. ca. 12. Augustin Epist 105. ad Sixtum Augustin De Verbis Apostoli Sermo 15. Augustin De Ciuitate Li. 14. Cap. 1. Basil in Psal 32. Basil De Humilitate Hieron in Epist ad Ephes cap. 3. Bernard in Psal Qui habitat * Vntruthe For so the Fathers of the Old Lavve and al Christan Infantes shoulde be vtterly excluded from Resurrection The cause of Resurrection Iohn 6. Augustin in Iohan tracta 25. Idem tracta 26. Nicola Lyra in Psalm 111. Iohn 6.
propriè in renatis Peccatum sit sed quia ex Peccato est ad Peccatum inclinat Si quis autem contrarium senserit Anathema sit The Concupiscence whiche the Apostle S. Paule sommetime calleth Sinne this Holy Councel declareth that the Cathosique Churche neuer vnderstoode it to be called sinne for that it is so in deede and in Proper manner of Speache in them that be Baptized but bicause it is of Sinne and enclineth vs vnto Sinne. And if any man thinke the Contrarie accused be he Thus wée see that by the Decrée of this woorthy Couente S. Ambrose and S. Augustine other Holy Fathers that haue written the same are al accursed As for that M. Hardinge here toucheth as an errour defended by certaine I knowe not by whom that Baptisme géeueth not ful Remission of Sinne he maiâ— commaunde it home againe to Lâ—uaine emongest his felowes and ieine it with other of his and theirâ— Vanities For it is no parte nor portion of our Doctrine Wée Confesse and haue euermore taught that in the Sacramente of Baptisme by the Deathe and Bloude of Christe is géeuen Remission of al manner Sinnes and that not in halfe or in parte or by waie of Imagination or by fansie but ful whole and Perfite of al togeather so that nowe as S. Paule saithe There is no damnation vnto them that be in Christe Jesu Nowe iudge thou indifferently gentle Reader what Sprite forced M. Hardinge thus terribly to crie oute They Lie they studie to deceiue they seeke shiftes c. The Apologie Cap. 12. Diuision 1. Wee saie that Eucharistia that is to saie the Supper of the Lorde is a Sacramente that is an euident Representation of the Body and Bloude of Christe wherein is sette as it were before our eies the Deathe of Christe and his Resurrection and what so euer he did whilest he was in his Mortal Body to th ende wee maie geene him thankes for his Deathe and for our deliueraunce And that by the often receiuinge of this Sacramente wee maie daily renewe the remembraunce thereof to thintente wee beinge fedde with the Body and Bloude of Christe maie be brought into the hope of the Resurrection and of Euerlastinge Life and maie moste assuredly beleeue that as our bodies be fedde with Breade and Wine so our Soules be fedde with the Body and Bloude of Christe M. Hardinge Amonge al these gay woordes we heare not so mutche as one Syllable vttered whereby we may vnderstande that ye beleue the Very Body of Christe to be in deede Presente in the blessed Sacrament of the Aulter Ye confesse the Eucharistia whiche commonly ye cal the Supper of the Lorde to be a Sacramente and al that to be none other then an euident token of the Body and Bloud of Christe As for that ye adde to make the matter seme sommewhat of the Deathe of Christe and his Resurrection and his actes done in fleshe VVhat reason or scripture haue ye that a peece of Bread and a Cuppe of VVine for in your belefe more make ye not of this Sacramente can set them as it were before our eies Dothe not rather a faire Painted table set foorth the actes of our Sauiour before our eies more liuely and more expressely And be we not moued therewith to geue God thankes for his greate benefites as wel as if we haue Breade and VVine on a table But I praie you sithens al is but Breade and VVine after your teachinge howe shal we by eatinge and drinkinge thereof be fedde with the Body and Bloude of Christe Againe can we by Breade and VVine be brought into hope of the Resurrection and Euer lastinge life as ye saie And howe shal we by Eatinge of Breade and Drinking of VVine be assured that Christes Body and Bloude doth in like manner feede our soules as Breade and VVine feedeth our bodies Though your imagination be neuer so stronge yet by eatinge of that whiche is Breade onely and Drinkinge of that whiche is VVine onely we see not how your soules can be fedde with the True Body and Bloude of Christe no more then ye be at your common meales Verily when al your tale is tolde ye seme to saie nothinge els touchinge the eatinge of our Lordes Body but that the Body of Christe remaineth in Heauen and that we muste sende vp our soules thither to eate it there by a certaine Imagination whiche ye cal faithe For this is your Maister Caluines Doctrine By this Doctrine al standeth vppon your faithe your faithe doth al alone And he that beleueth in Christe so as ye teache eateth his Body and Drinketh his Bloude For by your Gospel to eate the Body is nothinge els but to beleue in Christe If this be true then is your Supper superfluous For declaration of the Truthe herein it is to be considered that when we speake of this blessed Sacramente we meane specially the thinge receiued to be the very Real Body of Christe not onely a Signe or Token of his Body Yet we thinke it necessarie the Doctrine of the Fathers be clerely taught whiche is that here is a Sacramente and the thinge of the Sacramente The Forme of Breade and VVine whiche is sene is the Sacramente that is to saie a Signe of the Holy thinge For a Sacramente besides the outwarde shape whiche it representeth to the senses causeth an other thinge to come into knowledge The thinge of this Sacramente is of two sortes the one in tho same conteined and signified the other signified but not conteined The firste is the Body of Christe borne of the Virgine Mary and his Bloude shed for our Redemption the Seconde is the Vnitie of the Churche in these that be predestinate called iustified and glorified VVhiche Churche is Christes Body mystical So that here are three distincte thinges vnderstanded The one is a Sacramente onely the other a Sacramente and the thinge the thirde the thinge and not a Sacramente The firste is the visible shape or Forme of Breade and VVine the seconde is the proper and very Fleashe and Bloude of Christe the thirde his Mystical Body And as there be two thinges of this Sacrament so be there also two meanes or waies of eating The one Sacramental after whiche bothe good and euil eate the true Body of Christe they to saluation these to damnation The other spiritual after whiche the good only do eate These Defenders as al other the Sacrament aries speakinge of these distinct thinges indistinctly cause confusion and deceiue the vnlearned readers In sutche a sense and meaninge the place commonly alleged out of S. Augustine as also many other the like maye wel be vnderstanded without preiudice of the Truthe of Christes Body in the Sacrament Vt quid paras dentem Venttem Crede manducasti To what pourpose makest thou ready teeth and bely Beleue and thou hast eaten Nowe these Defenders harpingâ—â—â—nâ—ly vpon this one
that he heareth loseth the thinge that he heareth Therefore the Pope him selfe in his Pontifical géeueth this special Charge vnto the Reader Stude Lectiones Sacras distinctè apertè proferre ad Intelligentiam aedificationem Fidelium Endeuoure thee selfe to pronounce the Holy Lessons or Chapters distinctely and plainely not to a Spiritual doumbenesse but to the vnderstandinge and profite of the Faitheful Touching the Praiers that the simple people maketh in a tongue vnknowen Christe saithe This people honoureth me with theire lippes But theire hartes are far from mee The Apologie Cap. 9. Diuision 2. In these thinges haue they set al theire Religion teachinge the people that by the same God maie be duely pacified Spirites be driuen awaie and mens consciences wel quieted M. Hardinge VVhat shal I saie to al this but that ye lie I would saie as the manner is Sauing your worshippes but that your often and vnshamefaste lieing hath quite taken awaie from you al opinion of honestie Al Christes Religion whiche we professe consisteth not in these thinges neither by these be mennes consciences quieted By certaine of these euil and impure sprites be driued awaie in deede VVhich here by sundry Aunciente recordes and Testimonies I woulde declare to be moste true were it not wel yenough knowen by daily experience But as for you whereas neither Breade nor VVater nor Crosse driueth you awaie it semeth ye are worse to be coniured then the deuil himselfe Many of your secte Catholike Princes haue founde so stubborne as they could yet neuer ridde theire Countries of them but by coniuration of fire The B. of Sarisburie Yée saie yée ye neuer sought to quiet mennes Cōsciences by Oile Water Palmes c. And therefore ye stande vp a tipps toe and in your familiare manner crie oute yee lie For shorte trial hereof one example maie suffice in stéede of many Augustine Steuchus one of your special and woorthy Doctoures saithe thus Aquas Sale Orationibus Sanctificamus vt ad earum Aspersum nostra deleātur delicta We halowe VVater with Salte and Praiers that by the Sprinkelinge thereof our sinnes maie be foregeeuen Reade your owne Pontifical and ye shal finde in the halowinge of your VVater your Asshes your Palmes your Candels c. this clause euermore in the ende Vt sint nobis ad Salutem Animae Corporis That they maie be to vs to the Saluation of Body and soule Whereas in the ende ye vaunte your selfe of your Crueltie and so pleasantly make Sporte with the Bloude of your Brethern take it not for il if I answeare you with the Woordes of Salomon Viscera impiorum crudelia The bowelles of the wicked be alwaies cruel Therein M. Hardinge standeth your greateste puissance If ye were no better armed with Fire and Svverde then ye be with Scriptures and Doctoures no wise man woulde greately feare your force As for vs wée maie answeare you now as S. Cyprian sommetime answeared the Heathens Nobis ignominia non est pati à Fratribus quod passus est Christus neque vobis gloria est facere quod fecit Iudas It is no shame for vs to suffer of our Brethren the same violence that Christe suffered neither is it any praise for you to doo the same thinge that Iudas did Tertullian saith vnto your Fathers Crudelitas vestra gloria nostra est Semen est Sanguis Christianorum Your crueltie is our Glorie The Bloude of Christians is the seede of the Gospel I praie God al that innocente Bloude that hath benne sheadde in this cause be not required at your handes in the daie of Wrathe and at the declaration of the iuste iudgemente of God The Apologie Cap. 10. Diuision 1. For these lo be the oriente colours and Pretious sauours of Christian Religion these thinges dooth God looke vpon and accepteth thē thankefully these must cōme in place to be honoured must put quite awaie the Institutions of Christe of his Apostles And like as in times paste when wicked Kinge Ieroboam had taken from the people the right seruing of God had brought thē to woorship the Golden Calues leste perchaunce thei might afterward change theire minde and slippe awaie geatinge them againe to Ierusalem to the Temple of God there hee exhorted them with a longe tale to be stedfast saieinge thus vnto them O Israel these Calues be thy Goddes In this sorte commaunded your God you shoulde woorship him For it shoulde be wearisome and troublous for you to take vpon you a iourney so farre of yeerely to goe vp to Ierusalem there to serue and honoure your God Euen after the very same sorte when these menne had once made the Lawe of God of none effecte through theire owne Traditions fearinge that the people shoulde afterwarde open theire eies fal an other waie and shoulde sommewhence els seeke a surer meane of theire Saluation Iesu howe often haue they cried out This is the same woorshippinge that pleaseth God and whiche hee straitely requireth of vs and wherewith he wil be turned from his wrathe that by these thinges is conserued the Vnitie of the Churche that by these al sinnes be cleansed and consciences quieted and that who so departeth from these hath leafte vnto him selfe no hope of Euerlastinge Saluation For it were wearisome and troublous saie they for the people to resorte to Christe to the Apostles and to the Anciente Fathers and to obserue continually what theire wil and commaundement should be This ye maie see is to withdrawe the people of God from the Weake Elementes of the worlde from the leauen of the Scribes and Phariseis and from the Traditions of menne It were reason no doubte that Christes Commaundementes and the Apostles were remoued that these theire diuises might comme in place O iuste cause I promise you why that Anciente and so longe allowed Doctrine shoulde be nowe abolished and a newe Forme of Religion be brought into the Churche of God M. Hardinge It shoulde haue becomme Scoggin Patche Iolle Harry Pattenson or VVil Sommer to haue tolde this tale mutche better then your Superintendentships And if ye woulde nedes haue plaied the parte your selues it had ben more conuenient to haue donne it on the stage vnder a vices cote then in a booke set abrode to the worlde in defence of al your newe Englishe Churche Ye shal neuer make any reasonoble man beleue your scoffinge tale VVe esteme litle your railinge comparison with your spiteful woordes and so mutche deuilishe villany The Apologie Cap. 10. Diuision 2. And yet whatsoeuer it be these menne crie stil that nothing ought to be changed that mens mindes are wel satisfied here withal that the Churche of Rome the Churche whiche cannot erre hath decreed these thinges For Syluester Prieriàs saith that the Romishe Churche is the Squier and Rule of Truthe that the Holy Scripture hath receiued from thence Authoritie and Credite The Doctrine saith he