Selected quad for the lemma: truth_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
truth_n	ancient_a	church_n	doctrine_n	1,896	5	6.2759	4	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A93091	A treatise of liturgies, power of the keyes, and of matter of the visible church. In answer to the reverend servant of Christ, Mr. John Ball. By Thomas Shephard, sometimes fellow of Emanuel-Colledge in Cambridge, and late pastour of Cambridge in New-England.	Shepard, Thomas, 1605-1649.	1652 (1652)	Wing S3148; Thomason E681_17; ESTC R206794	175,099	213

a_o treatise_n of_o liturgy_n power_n of_o the_o key_n and_o of_o matter_n of_o the_o visible_a church_n in_o answer_n to_o the_o reverend_a servant_n of_o christ_n mr._n john_n ball._n by_o thomas_n shephard_n sometime_o fellow_n of_o emanuel-colledge_n in_o cambridge_n and_o late_a pastor_n of_o cambridge_n in_o new-england_n veritas_fw-la nihil_fw-la erubescit_fw-la praeterquam_fw-la abscondi_fw-la turtul_n sua_fw-la silentia_fw-la amat_fw-la spiritus_fw-la per_fw-la quae_fw-la nobis_fw-la illabitur_fw-la seque_fw-la insinuat_fw-la cupidis_fw-la non_fw-la gloriae_fw-la sed_fw-la cognoscendae_fw-la veritatis_fw-la melanct._n let_v the_o blessing_n come_v upon_o the_o head_n of_o joseph_n and_o upon_o the_o top_n of_o the_o head_n of_o he_o that_o be_v separate_v from_o his_o brethren_n deut._n 33._o 16._o london_n print_v by_o e._n cotes_n for_o andrew_n crook_n and_o be_v to_o be_v sell_v at_o the_o green_a dragon_n in_o paul_n churchyard_n 1653._o the_o preface_n to_o the_o reader_n it_o be_v the_o profession_n of_o the_o lord_n jesus_n before_o pilate_n when_o he_o question_v with_o he_o about_o his_o kingdom_n john_n 18._o 37._o that_o for_o this_o cause_n he_o be_v bear_v and_o come_v into_o the_o world_n to_o bear_v witness_n of_o the_o truth_n many_o truth_n about_o the_o spiritual_a kingdom_n of_o christ_n have_v he_o impart_v to_o we_o if_o therefore_o we_o be_v bear_v into_o the_o world_n or_o send_v into_o this_o wilderness_n to_o bear_v witness_n to_o his_o truth_n it_o be_v unto_o we_o reward_v sufficient_a that_o we_o shall_v be_v witness_n thereunto_o even_o to_o the_o utmost_a part_n of_o the_o earth_n we_o confess_v we_o have_v be_v too_o slow_a in_o this_o service_n of_o christ_n not_o have_v to_o this_o day_n set_v forth_o a_o unanimous_a confession_n of_o that_o form_n of_o wholesome_a word_n which_o be_v preach_v receive_v and_o profess_v in_o these_o church_n of_o the_o lord_n jesus_n and_o which_o we_o be_v not_o unmindful_a of_o though_o our_o distance_n and_o other_o difficulty_n may_v delay_v the_o opportunity_n but_o this_o in_o the_o mean_a time_n we_o profess_v in_o general_a that_o so_o far_o as_o we_o know_v there_o be_v the_o same_o bless_a spirit_n of_o truth_n breathe_v in_o the_o ministry_n of_o the_o country_n the_o same_o faith_n embrace_v and_o profess_v in_o the_o church_n which_o be_v general_o receive_v as_o the_o orthodox_n doctrine_n of_o the_o gospel_n in_o the_o best_a reform_a church_n and_o particular_o by_o our_o godly_a learned_a brethren_n of_o england_n and_o scotland_n and_o though_o error_n have_v spring_v up_o among_o we_o and_o some_o be_v go_v out_o from_o we_o that_o we_o fear_v be_v not_o of_o we_o yet_o we_o have_v bear_v witness_n against_o they_o and_o by_o the_o blessing_n of_o god_n by_o the_o breath_n of_o christ_n in_o the_o mouth_n of_o his_o servant_n they_o have_v be_v blast_v neither_o do_v we_o understand_v that_o these_o church_n be_v accuse_v of_o any_o error_n about_o the_o save_a truth_n of_o the_o gospel_n and_o therefore_o we_o think_v ourselves_o not_o so_o much_o call_v of_o god_n to_o such_o a_o confession_n at_o present_a as_o to_o clear_v up_o to_o the_o world_n those_o truth_n we_o profess_v about_o the_o kingdom_n and_o government_n of_o christ_n in_o his_o church_n which_o be_v the_o great_a work_n of_o this_o age_n and_o of_o this_o nick_n of_o time_n and_o yet_o here_o also_o we_o fear_v that_o we_o have_v be_v too_o slack_a for_o though_o it_o be_v say_v we_o be_v the_o volunteer_n such_o as_o cry_v up_o this_o way_n etc._n etc._n and_o so_o it_o seem_v we_o be_v apprehend_v to_o be_v one_o cause_n of_o these_o present_a difference_n yet_o if_o thing_n be_v well_o weigh_v we_o may_v seem_v rather_o to_o be_v far_o behind_o in_o the_o duty_n that_o lie_v upon_o we_o indeed_o some_o brief_a answer_n send_v over_o to_o some_o particular_a person_n to_o satisfy_v brethren_n what_o our_o practice_n be_v with_o some_o brief_a touch_n of_o our_o reason_n rather_o then_o to_o discuss_v those_o point_n have_v be_v print_v by_o some_o without_o our_o knowledge_n or_o assent_v upon_o what_o ground_n they_o best_o know_v and_o some_o short_a treatise_n by_o some_o reverend_a brethren_n have_v be_v publish_v to_o declare_v their_o affectionate_a desire_n of_o the_o unanimous_a endeavour_n of_o all_o our_o dear_a brethren_n for_o a_o general_a and_o holy_a reformation_n but_o what_o have_v be_v say_v or_o do_v that_o either_o may_v just_o offend_v the_o mind_n of_o the_o godly_a provoke_v their_o spirit_n disunite_v their_o affection_n or_o hinder_v a_o godly_a reformation_n yea_o we_o have_v be_v too_o slow_a to_o clear_v our_o doctrine_n and_o practice_n from_o the_o many_o objection_n harsh_a interpretation_n and_o manifold_a crimination_n cast_v upon_o the_o same_o wherein_o we_o fear_v our_o loathness_n to_o intermeddle_v in_o these_o controversy_n for_o fear_n of_o make_v the_o breach_n wide_o among_o brethren_n and_o our_o desire_n rather_o to_o attend_v what_o light_n we_o may_v receive_v from_o other_o in_o these_o point_n wherein_o we_o profess_v ourselves_o seeker_n after_o the_o truth_n have_v make_v we_o guilty_a of_o neglect_n in_o this_o our_o duty_n but_o now_o we_o see_v ourselves_o press_v hereto_o by_o a_o necessity_n of_o justify_v our_o way_n against_o the_o many_o aspersion_n cast_v upon_o they_o as_o well_o as_o against_o the_o reason_n use_v against_o they_o for_o we_o perceive_v by_o the_o first_o letter_n of_o our_o brethren_n how_o the_o withdraw_a of_o christian_n from_o the_o liturgy_n be_v impute_v to_o we_o and_o by_o this_o reply_n both_o in_o the_o epistle_n and_o divers_a passage_n we_o can_v but_o see_v what_o apprehension_n be_v raise_v of_o we_o yea_o many_o be_v apt_a to_o think_v that_o if_o we_o have_v say_v nothing_o yet_o our_o very_a act_n in_o forsake_v the_o church_n of_o god_n in_o our_o dear_a native_a country_n and_o the_o cause_n of_o christ_n there_o together_o with_o the_o practice_n of_o these_o church_n think_v to_o be_v so_o different_a from_o the_o reform_a church_n have_v be_v not_o only_o a_o great_a weaken_n to_o the_o hand_n of_o the_o godly_a that_o have_v stand_v by_o the_o cause_n of_o christ_n but_o also_o have_v cause_v great_a disturbance_n to_o the_o reformation_n in_o hand_n to_o which_o much_o may_v be_v say_v but_o that_o we_o shall_v exceed_v the_o bound_n of_o a_o epistle_n yet_o let_v we_o entreat_v all_o the_o godly_a wise_a to_o consider_v and_o look_v back_o upon_o the_o season_n of_o this_o great_a enterprise_n undertake_v by_o we_o and_o the_o manner_n of_o our_o proceed_n in_o it_o with_o the_o admirable_a work_n of_o god_n providence_n first_o and_o last_o about_o it_o and_o we_o think_v though_o we_o be_v silent_a they_o may_v easy_o satisfy_v themselves_o whether_o this_o be_v of_o god_n or_o man_n a_o sinful_a neglect_n of_o the_o cause_n of_o christ_n or_o a_o manifest_a attestation_n to_o the_o truth_n by_o open_a profession_n against_o corruption_n of_o worship_n in_o use_n and_o for_o the_o necessity_n of_o reformation_n of_o the_o church_n and_o that_o confirm_v by_o no_o small_a degree_n of_o suffering_n for_o the_o same_o for_o be_v it_o not_o a_o time_n when_o humane_a worship_n and_o invention_n be_v grow_v to_o such_o a_o intolerable_a height_n that_o the_o conscience_n of_o god_n saint_n and_o servant_n enlighten_v in_o the_o truth_n can_v no_o long_o bear_v they_o be_v not_o the_o power_n of_o the_o tyrannical_a prelate_n so_o great_a that_o like_o a_o strong_a current_n carry_v all_o down_o stream_n before_o it_o what_o ever_o be_v from_o the_o law_n or_o otherwise_o set_v in_o their_o way_n do_v not_o the_o heart_n of_o man_n general_o fail_v they_o where_o be_v the_o people_n to_o be_v find_v that_o will_v cleave_v to_o their_o godly_a minister_n in_o their_o suffering_n but_o rather_o think_v it_o their_o discretion_n to_o provide_v for_o their_o own_o quiet_a and_o safety_n yea_o when_o some_o free_o in_o zeal_n of_o the_o truth_n preach_v or_o profess_v against_o the_o corruption_n of_o the_o time_n do_v not_o some_o take_v offence_n at_o it_o judge_v it_o rashness_n and_o to_o be_v against_o all_o rule_n of_o discretion_n who_o since_o be_v ready_a to_o censure_v we_o for_o desert_v the_o cause_n many_o then_o think_v it_o be_v a_o evil_a time_n the_o prudent_a shall_v hold_v their_o peace_n and_o may_v we_o not_o say_v this_o be_v not_o our_o rest_a place_n and_o what_o will_v man_n have_v we_o do_v in_o such_o a_o case_n must_v we_o study_v some_o distinction_n to_o salve_v our_o conscience_n in_o comply_v with_o so_o manifold_a corruption_n in_o god_n worship_n or_o shall_v we_o live_v without_o god_n ordinance_n because_o we_o can_v not_o partake_v in_o the_o corrupt_a administration_n thereof_o or_o content_v ourselves_o to_o live_v

knowledge_n of_o and_o if_o any_o by_o such_o write_n do_v abstain_v from_o the_o sacrament_n for_o such_o corruption_n as_o their_o conscience_n will_v be_v defile_v with_o no_o hindrance_n from_o we_o be_v in_o the_o way_n but_o that_o you_o may_v call_v they_o to_o account_v before_o the_o church_n and_o convince_v and_o censure_v they_o if_o there_o be_v just_a cause_n which_o be_v the_o objection_n against_o mr._n p._n in_o fly_v present_o to_o the_o classis_fw-la chap._n iii_o 2_o position_n that_o it_o be_v not_o lawful_a to_o join_v in_o prayer_n or_o receive_v the_o sacrament_n where_o a_o stint_a liturgy_n be_v use_v or_o as_o we_o conceive_v your_o meaning_n to_o be_v in_o this_o as_o in_o the_o former_a etc._n etc._n viz._n where_o and_o when_o that_o stint_a liturgy_n be_v use_v reply_n if_o we_o mistake_v not_o your_o judgement_n and_o practice_n both_o you_o have_v bear_v witness_n against_o both_o that_o you_o call_v the_o rigid_a separation_n and_o this_o more_o moderate_a also_o and_o we_o humble_o wish_v that_o the_o moderate_a do_v not_o degenerate_a into_o the_o rigid_a ere_o long_o it_o be_v very_o strange_a if_o they_o take_v not_o great_a encouragement_n upon_o your_o ground_n answ_n if_o you_o will_v needs_o account_v not_o join_v in_o that_o stint_v impose_v liturgy_n to_o be_v a_o moderate_a separation_n we_o must_v confess_v we_o have_v witness_v against_o such_o separation_n yea_o not_o only_o conform_v to_o that_o corrupt_a worship_n but_o also_o to_o divers_a of_o the_o ceremony_n thereof_o some_o of_o we_o with_o shame_n before_o the_o lord_n may_v confess_v it_o but_o we_o desire_v that_o may_v be_v no_o prejudice_n to_o the_o truth_n since_o discover_v to_o we_o but_o we_o have_v ever_o conceive_v that_o the_o separation_n witness_v against_o both_o by_o yourselves_o and_o we_o have_v be_v such_o as_o to_o separate_v from_o the_o church_n of_o england_n as_o no_o true_a church_n the_o ministry_n as_o no_o true_a ministry_n their_o separation_n from_o corruption_n in_o doctrine_n and_o worship_n their_o endeavour_n to_o enjoy_v all_o the_o ordinance_n of_o the_o lord_n jesus_n in_o purity_n if_o we_o be_v not_o mistake_v your_o judgement_n and_o practice_n with_o we_o have_v always_o approve_v and_o the_o question_n now_o in_o hand_n be_v not_o about_o a_o new_a kind_n of_o separation_n more_o moderate_a from_o the_o church_n and_o ministry_n of_o england_n but_o whether_o the_o liturgy_n of_o england_n be_v not_o indeed_o one_o of_o those_o corruption_n in_o worship_n which_o you_o and_o we_o have_v need_n reject_v as_o well_o as_o the_o ceremony_n and_o no_o long_o conform_v to_o the_o same_o and_o we_o hearty_o wish_v that_o the_o grow_a endeavour_n of_o the_o godly_a after_o more_o purity_n of_o worship_n and_o to_o be_v purge_v from_o all_o the_o pollution_n of_o the_o man_n of_o sin_n be_v not_o too_o rash_o brand_v with_o the_o odium_fw-la of_o separation_n and_o breach_n of_o peace_n and_o unity_n of_o the_o church_n as_o for_o degenerate_v into_o the_o rigid_a separation_n we_o think_v you_o need_v not_o fear_v it_o upon_o our_o principle_n no_o more_o then_o upon_o the_o common_a ground_n of_o nonconformist_n and_o you_o know_v what_o they_o infer_v upon_o those_o principle_n now_o just_o it_o concern_v you_o to_o consider_v as_o well_o as_o we_o but_o as_o it_o be_v true_o observe_v in_o england_n it_o be_v the_o justification_n and_o press_v of_o ceremony_n and_o other_o corruption_n that_o drive_v many_o to_o separation_n not_o the_o endeavour_n of_o further_a reformation_n so_o you_o may_v fear_v the_o too_o too_o much_o conformity_n of_o minister_n to_o humane_a imposition_n and_o justification_n of_o the_o liturgy_n etc._n etc._n have_v and_o will_v more_o dangerous_o alienate_v godly_a mind_n from_o your_o church_n and_o ministry_n and_o so_o drive_v to_o separation_n then_o all_o the_o principle_n and_o progress_n of_o the_o godly_a in_o way_n of_o reformation_n and_o we_o shall_v refer_v it_o to_o the_o judicious_a and_o common_a experience_n whether_o the_o discovery_n of_o the_o corrupt_a worship_n in_o the_o liturgy_n or_o contrary_a conformity_n to_o it_o be_v the_o great_a block_n of_o offence_n and_o strengthen_v the_o hand_n of_o the_o separatist_n most_o which_o yet_o you_o after_o object_n unto_o we_o we_o suppose_v the_o worthy_n of_o this_o renown_a parliament_n together_o with_o those_o of_o the_o reverend_a assembly_n will_v not_o so_o soon_o have_v remove_v the_o whole_a frame_n and_o fabric_n of_o this_o book_n nor_o whole_o stop_v up_o this_o pit_n if_o build_v of_o battlement_n about_o it_o and_o keep_v watchman_n near_o it_o to_o bid_v passenger_n take_v heed_n have_v be_v the_o ready_a way_n to_o cure_v separation_n nor_o do_v we_o think_v that_o this_o reverend_a man_n of_o god_n will_v have_v be_v in_o more_o jealousy_n and_o fear_n of_o we_o if_o he_o have_v consider_v how_o tender_o we_o return_v our_o answer_n to_o the_o question_n then_o of_o those_o faithful_a witness_n in_o scotland_n who_o separate_v their_o life_n into_o the_o hand_n of_o death_n rather_o than_o communicate_v in_o the_o use_n of_o this_o book_n and_o yet_o we_o think_v they_o deserve_v a_o better_a place_n then_o to_o be_v rank_v so_o near_o to_o the_o rigid_a separation_n notwithstanding_o for_o ourselves_o we_o be_v hearty_o thankful_a for_o what_o he_o humble_o wish_v and_o for_o his_o jealousy_n over_o we_o so_o far_o as_o it_o be_v godly_a but_o so_o far_o as_o such_o wish_n cast_v a_o cloud_n of_o evil_a suspicion_n over_o we_o in_o the_o heart_n of_o other_o as_o if_o we_o be_v go_v fast_a than_o we_o know_v where_o to_o stay_v we_o wish_v humble_o such_o word_n have_v be_v spare_v till_o some_o other_o time_n concern_v this_o distinction_n a_o letter_n of_o this_o subject_n be_v cite_v print_v without_o the_o author_n knowledge_n that_o put_v a_o difference_n indeed_o between_o the_o reason_n of_o the_o separatist_n proper_a to_o they_o qua_fw-la tale_n and_o other_o reason_n use_v by_o himself_o common_a to_o other_o studious_a of_o reformation_n to_o which_o we_o answer_v 1_o that_o letter_n acknowledge_v no_o such_o distinction_n of_o separation_n rigid_a and_o moderate_a only_o if_o you_o will_v a_o separation_n from_o church_n and_o separation_n from_o the_o sin_n and_o corruption_n of_o church_n which_o latter_a be_v all_o we_o profess_v 2_o those_o reason_n which_o the_o letter_n ascribe_v to_o they_o qua_fw-la tale_n will_v we_o suppose_v be_v find_v in_o their_o book_n thus_o far_o that_o the_o prayer_n preach_n sacrament_n etc._n etc._n be_v unlawful_a because_o offer_v in_o a_o false_a church_n by_o a_o false_a ministry_n for_o the_o subject_n of_o antichrist_n kingdom_n that_o there_o shall_v be_v no_o separatist_n in_o the_o world_n because_o none_o it_o be_v say_v none_o plead_v against_o the_o book_n of_o common-prayer_n as_o unlawful_a because_o offer_v up_o in_o a_o false_a church_n be_v strange_a to_o we_o that_o this_o learned_a author_n shall_v not_o read_v or_o observe_v the_o same_o exceed_v frequent_o in_o the_o separatist_n write_n take_v but_o a_o taste_n in_o the_o first_o page_n of_o mr._n smith_n against_o bernard_n in_o his_o parallel_n censure_n and_o observation_n his_o word_n pag._n 9_o be_v these_o he_o will_v prove_v that_o a_o erroneous_a constitution_n of_o a_o church_n be_v a_o real_a idol_n and_o the_o prayer_n they_o offer_v with_o the_o prayer_n of_o the_o wicked_a come_v from_o that_o false_a constitution_n be_v taint_v with_o the_o idolatry_n of_o that_o constitution_n and_o pag._n 10._o it_o be_v idolatry_n to_o offer_v up_o service_n to_o god_n in_o a_o church_n of_o a_o false_a constitution_n and_o pag._n 13._o tell_v i_o mr._n bernard_n can_v there_o be_v a_o true_a ministry_n true_a baptism_n true_a faith_n true_a prayer_n true_a preach_v and_o administer_a the_o supper_n true_a excommunication_n in_o a_o church_n which_o be_v false_o constitute_v do_v the_o lord_n accept_v the_o sacrifice_n of_o the_o church_n constitute_v by_o jeroboam_n so_o page_n 14._o a_o church_n false_o constitute_v be_v not_o accept_v of_o god_n neither_o be_v their_o action_n ecclesiastical_a as_o prayer_n preach_v etc._n etc._n acceptable_a in_o the_o sight_n of_o god_n and_o again_o a_o false_a ministry_n worship_n government_n may_v be_v in_o a_o true_a church_n through_o ignorance_n and_o the_o like_a but_o a_o true_a ministry_n worship_n government_n can_v possible_o be_v in_o a_o false_a church_n we_o think_v it_o needless_a to_o recite_v more_o testimony_n aliquando_fw-la bone_fw-la dormitat_fw-la homerus_fw-la a_o good_a memory_n may_v sometime_o fall_v asleep_a and_o not_o see_v that_o which_o be_v sometime_o most_o obvious_a and_o visible_a but_o what_o other_o argument_n they_o have_v be_v or_o may_v be_v common_a to_o other_o studious_a of_o reformation_n as_o their_o

mean_n of_o worship_n which_o those_o priest_n never_o be_v reply_n on_o the_o contrary_a if_o you_o will_v extend_v this_o text_n to_o all_o unworthy_a minister_n of_o what_o sort_n soever_o who_o the_o word_n of_o god_n condemn_v as_o not_o approve_a minister_n of_o god_n etc._n etc._n answ_n we_o intend_v no_o other_o sort_n then_o such_o as_o we_o have_v in_o hand_n the_o unable_a and_o ungodly_a idol_n priest_n of_o england_n and_o therefore_o this_o discourse_n concern_v we_o not_o for_o we_o free_o confess_v that_o it_o be_v lawful_a in_o divers_a case_n at_o least_o for_o a_o time_n to_o communicate_v with_o such_o unworthy_a minister_n as_o may_v be_v contain_v in_o your_o description_n but_o that_o people_n must_v and_o aught_o to_o join_v with_o such_o in_o the_o worship_n of_o god_n and_o sin_n if_o they_o separate_v from_o the_o ordinance_n as_o you_o say_v the_o scripture_n allege_v teach_v not_o this_o so_o evident_o that_o we_o can_v see_v as_o 1_o sam._n 2._o 12_o 13._o 17._o 24._o that_o imputation_n verse_n 24._o they_o make_v the_o lord_n people_n to_o transgress_v do_v not_o depend_v immediate_o on_o verse_n 13_o 14._o 17._o but_o on_o verse_n 22._o 23._o where_o they_o be_v charge_v to_o have_v lie_v with_o the_o woman_n the_o other_o passage_n be_v interrupt_v by_o the_o story_n of_o samuel_n and_o his_o mother_n verse_n 18_o 19_o 20_o 21._o so_o jer._n 8._o 8_o 9_o micah_n 3._o 11_o 12._o contain_v only_a threat_n against_o wicked_a minister_n but_o not_o a_o word_n to_o prove_v people_n ought_v to_o join_v with_o they_o etc._n etc._n phil._n 1._o 15._o speak_v of_o such_o as_o preach_v and_o preach_v christ_n though_o not_o of_o sincerity_n do_v not_o reach_v such_o minister_n as_o the_o word_n condemn_v for_o many_o such_o may_v be_v approve_v minister_n by_o the_o word_n have_v a_o call_v according_a to_o the_o same_o but_o we_o shall_v not_o contend_v in_o this_o case_n wherein_o we_o do_v not_o dissent_v so_o that_o christian_n be_v 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the_o question_n which_o in_o our_o answer_n be_v of_o join_v in_o prayer_n with_o and_o when_o that_o whole_a liturgy_n be_v use_v and_o he_o that_o join_v with_o that_o whole_a liturgy_n must_v needs_o be_v suppose_v to_o have_v actual_a communion_n with_o all_o the_o corruption_n thereof_o what_o ever_o they_o be_v and_o therefore_o though_o this_o proposition_n reach_v to_o the_o practice_n of_o able_a and_o godly_a minister_n yet_o let_v none_o think_v we_o plead_v herein_o separation_n from_o their_o ministry_n but_o only_o that_o people_n may_v not_o conform_v with_o they_o to_o any_o corruption_n in_o worship_n and_o by_o this_o proposition_n also_o the_o author_n may_v easy_o have_v see_v that_o we_o deny_v the_o other_o which_o be_v weave_v in_o with_o this_o not_o because_o of_o the_o ungodliness_n of_o the_o minister_n alone_o as_o he_o carry_v his_o dispute_n but_o chief_o in_o respect_n of_o the_o corruption_n of_o the_o worship_n together_o with_o the_o unlawfulnesse_n of_o such_o a_o ministry_n that_o be_v both_o unable_a and_o ungodly_a second_o concern_v the_o argument_n it_o run_v as_o full_a for_o conformity_n to_o all_o the_o corrupt_a ceremony_n of_o the_o book_n as_o the_o corrupt_a worship_n itself_o therein_o as_o be_v say_v before_o clear_v the_o one_o viz._n non-conformitie_n to_o ceremony_n show_v a_o reason_n why_o you_o will_v separate_v from_o the_o sacrament_n because_o you_o will_v not_o kneel_v according_a to_o the_o book_n and_o you_o answer_v your_o argument_n here_o allege_v against_o we_o but_o the_o reply_n proceed_v reply_n and_o if_o presence_n at_o form_n of_o prayer_n be_v not_o lawful_a by_o reason_n of_o the_o corruption_n allege_v there_o can_v be_v no_o visible_a society_n name_v since_o 200._o year_n after_o christ_n or_o thereabouts_o wherein_o a_o christian_a may_v lawful_o join_v in_o prayer_n read_v the_o scripture_n hear_v the_o word_n or_o participation_n of_o the_o sacrament_n their_o doctrine_n prayer_n 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pure_a than_o england_n in_o doctrine_n rite_n etc._n etc._n it_o may_v be_v that_o as_o general_o church_n be_v corrupt_a so_o they_o contemn_v and_o censure_v such_o as_o profess_v more_o purity_n but_o that_o there_o be_v some_o visible_a assembly_n more_o pure_a may_v be_v conceive_v by_o that_o testimony_n give_v to_o aerius_n and_o many_o orthodox_n christian_n with_o he_o though_o condemn_v for_o a_o heretic_n in_o that_o which_o we_o all_o now_o hold_v to_o be_v a_o undoubted_a truth_n also_o after_o the_o waldenses_n cast_v off_o the_o pope_n and_o his_o will_n worship_n and_o the_o follow_v reform_v church_n those_o of_o scotland_n geneva_n and_o divers_a other_o in_o france_n and_o switserland_n etc._n etc._n who_o doctrine_n rite_n and_o administration_n we_o doubt_v not_o will_v be_v confess_v more_o pure_a than_o english_a church_n it_o will_v be_v too_o tedious_a and_o in_o these_o know_a time_n

to_o this_o objection_n be_v speak_v before_o only_o we_o marvel_v why_o you_o say_v they_o must_v first_o partake_v of_o seal_n when_o as_o act_v 2._o they_o be_v baptize_v and_o add_v to_o the_o church_n the_o same_o day_n and_o it_o be_v grant_v the_o apostle_n gather_v church_n by_o baptism_n reply_n such_o as_o for_o lack_v of_o mean_n and_o opportunity_n can_v join_v in_o such_o estate_n ere_fw-we be_v disperse_v by_o persecution_n or_o destitute_a of_o pastor_n or_o teacher_n may_v for_o a_o time_n seek_v the_o seal_n in_o other_o society_n answ_n the_o first_o instance_n be_v the_o thing_n in_o question_n and_o such_o as_o may_v come_v to_o any_o society_n to_o desire_v seal_n be_v not_o whole_o destitute_a of_o mean_n and_o opportunity_n to_o join_v viz._n to_o that_o society_n the_o two_o other_o instance_n be_v of_o such_o as_o may_v be_v suppose_v still_o to_o hold_v their_o right_n in_o a_o church_n society_n the_o thing_n be_v grant_v by_o we_o in_o way_n of_o communion_n 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partake_v in_o the_o seal_n till_o he_o have_v join_v himself_o in_o church_n fellowship_n and_o in_o the_o call_n of_o the_o minister_n we_o conceive_v you_o will_v not_o say_v that_o child_n and_o woman_n have_v to_o do_v in_o the_o call_n of_o the_o minister_n if_o some_o part_n of_o the_o church_n do_v not_o consent_v in_o the_o call_n of_o the_o minister_n must_v they_o separate_v from_o the_o ordinance_n of_o worship_n etc._n etc._n answ_n the_o seem_a swell_n of_o this_o proposition_n will_v easy_o fall_v and_o run_v within_o bank_n and_o bound_n if_o it_o be_v receive_v in_o its_o true_a sense_n and_o meaning_n for_o by_o the_o call_n of_o a_o minister_n must_v needs_o be_v understand_v the_o voluntary_a subjection_n of_o all_o church_n member_n to_o his_o ministry_n after_o he_o be_v call_v as_o well_o as_o the_o act_n of_o election_n of_o he_o at_o the_o first_o it_o be_v irrational_a to_o think_v a_o minister_n be_v to_o be_v choose_v over_o again_o whensoever_o a_o member_n be_v add_v to_o the_o church_n and_o therefore_o our_o meaning_n be_v not_o hard_a to_o conceive_v and_o be_v so_o take_v woman_n choose_v their_o minister_n that_o be_v voluntary_o submit_v to_o he_o be_v choose_v child_n be_v subject_v to_o he_o by_o their_o parent_n the_o dissent_v part_n of_o the_o church_n ought_v to_o submit_v to_o he_o be_v choose_v and_o do_v if_o they_o remain_v under_o his_o ministry_n and_o so_o in_o all_o other_o case_n you_o have_v or_o can_v suppose_v reply_n here_o you_o say_v people_n must_v join_v in_o the_o call_n of_o a_o minister_n before_o they_o can_v lawful_o desire_v and_o be_v admit_v to_o the_o seal_n and_o another_o have_v zealous_o affirm_v it_o be_v a_o presumptuous_a sin_n to_o choose_v a_o officer_n not_o train_v up_o and_o wry_v in_o debate_v discuss_v carry_v and_o contrive_v church_n affair_n in_o admonish_v exhort_v comfort_v etc._n etc._n lay_v these_o together_o and_o consider_v how_o long_o many_o a_o poor_a soul_n convert_v to_o the_o faith_n must_v be_v compel_v to_o want_v god_n ordinance_n answ_n first_o it_o do_v not_o answer_v the_o profession_n in_o the_o letter_n thus_o to_o join_v we_o with_o mr._n robinson_n as_o another_o of_o the_o same_o sort_n as_o it_o be_v for_o such_o as_o will_v glad_o receive_v every_o syllable_n from_o we_o that_o may_v dislodge_v their_o thought_n of_o separation_n in_o we_o as_o we_o be_v hearty_o desire_v to_o be_v assure_v of_o in_o the_o epistle_n to_o this_o reply_n we_o think_v will_v not_o so_o close_o join_v we_o with_o such_o they_o will_v have_v we_o part_v from_o and_o upon_o so_o little_a occasion_n and_o to_o so_o little_a purpose_n unless_o they_o do_v much_o forget_v themselves_o second_o when_o it_o can_v be_v deny_v but_o the_o choice_n of_o minister_n be_v in_o the_o church_n and_o that_o hand_n shall_v not_o rash_o be_v lay_v on_o any_o man_n and_o deacon_n the_o low_a office_n shall_v be_v prove_v and_o then_o minister_v be_v find_v blameless_a yea_o he_o say_v and_o these_o also_o prove_v imply_v that_o other_o also_o shall_v be_v so_o 1_o tim._n 3._o 10._o what_o fault_n can_v be_v find_v with_o the_o substance_n of_o what_o either_o robinson_n or_o ourselves_o speak_v if_o our_o meaning_n and_o his_o be_v but_o charitable_o take_v if_o his_o word_n be_v overzealous_a to_o say_v it_o be_v a_o presumptuous_a sin_n to_o do_v otherwise_o what_o be_v that_o to_o we_o three_o for_o the_o delay_n of_o ordinance_n if_o both_o these_o be_v take_v together_o in_o most_o case_n it_o need_v not_o be_v long_o where_o god_n afford_v able_a and_o fit_a man_n for_o office_n but_o if_o some_o delay_n be_v and_o that_o a_o church_n want_v some_o ordinance_n and_o can_v by_o communion_n with_o other_o church_n enjoy_v they_o which_o be_v rare_a yet_o be_v it_o not_o better_a to_o forbear_v some_o ordinance_n a_o while_n then_o miscarry_v in_o so_o great_a a_o work_n as_o the_o choice_n of_o officer_n upon_o which_o the_o follow_a comfort_n and_o good_a of_o the_o church_n do_v so_o much_o depend_v the_o demand_n follow_v be_v answer_v in_o this_o whole_a discourse_n and_o we_o hope_v not_o with_o word_n but_o proof_n especial_o in_o our_o answer_n to_o the_o reply_n in_o the_o first_o consideration_n neither_o do_v we_o see_v any_o such_o difficulty_n but_o that_o such_o christian_n may_v as_o easy_o join_v to_o such_o a_o church_n for_o a_o time_n as_o desire_v to_o enjoy_v the_o ordinance_n and_o to_o sit_v loose_a from_o it_o for_o transient_a member_n we_o disallow_v not_o reply_n if_o the_o proposition_n may_v stand_v for_o good_a i_o fear_v we_o shall_v scarce_o find_v that_o ever_o in_o ordinary_a way_n the_o sacrament_n be_v lawful_o dispense_v or_o receive_v in_o the_o christian_a church_n of_o god_n since_o the_o first_o foundation_n of_o they_o answ_n if_o they_o be_v take_v in_o their_o true_a meaning_n and_o in_o that_o latitude_n we_o intend_v they_o we_o see_v no_o such_o cause_n of_o scruple_n for_o what_o be_v more_o ordinary_a in_o all_o true_a church_n then_o for_o people_n first_o to_o choose_v their_o minister_n &_o then_o to_o receive_v the_o seal_n at_o their_o hand_n and_o this_o have_v be_v the_o way_n of_o ancient_a reformer_n it_o be_v true_a many_o corruption_n have_v be_v in_o many_o true_a church_n and_o usurpation_n upon_o the_o right_n of_o the_o people_n in_o choose_v their_o minister_n as_o also_o in_o administration_n of_o the_o ordinance_n themselves_o and_o oft_o in_o the_o constitution_n of_o church_n but_o as_o the_o maintain_n of_o any_o truth_n of_o god_n against_o those_o corruption_n in_o worship_n etc._n etc._n do_v not_o argue_v a_o unlawfulnesse_n of_o the_o ordinance_n in_o such_o church_n but_o convince_v only_o the_o corrupt_a administration_n of_o they_o so_o in_o