not Apostolical traditions which appeare certainely so to be and yet woorthily we reiect those vnwritten doctrines and counterfet traditions of the Papists which are falsely fathered vpon the Apostles It is by these vnwritten doctrines and counterfet traditions that the grounds of our faith are impeached and shaken We therefore cannot be said to shake the grounds of faith who retaine the meere simplicity of those grounds and refuse all other strange and bastard stuffe but they shake the grounds of faith who become patrons of such tradition coloured with the names of the Apostles when notwithstanding they plainely crosse the written doctrine of the Apostles 2. W. BISHOP But let vs descend to the particulars wherein the truth will appeare more plainely Thus beginneth Master PERKINS with the Creede First of all it must be considered that some of the principall doctrines beleeued in the Church of Rome are that the Bishop of Rome is the Vicar of Christ and head of the Catholike Church that there is a fire of Purgatory that Images of God and Saints are to be placed in the Church and worshipped that Praier is to be made to Saints departed that there is a propitiatory sacrifice daily offered in the Masse for the sinnes of the quicke and the dead These points are of that moment that without them the Roman religion cannot stand c. And yet marke the Apostles Creed which hath beene thought to containe all necessary points of religion to be beleeued and hath therefore beene called the key and rule of faith This Creede I say hath not any of these points nor the expositions made thereof by the ancient Fathers nor any other Creed or confession of faith made by any Councell or Church for the space of many hundred yeeres This is a plaine proofe to any indifferent man that these bee new articles of faith neuer knowen in the Apostolike Church and that the Fathers and Councels could not finde any such articles of faith in the bookes of the old and new Testament Answer is made that all these points of doctrine are beleeued vnder the article I beleeue the Catholike Church the meaning whereof they will haue to be this I beleeue all things which the Catholike Church holdeth and teacheth to be beleeued If this bee as they say wee must beleeue in the Church that is put our confidence in the Church for the manifestation and the certainety of all doctrine necessary to saluation And thus the eternall truth of God the Creatour shall depend vpon the determination of the creature And the written word of God in this respect is made insufficient as though it had not plainely reuealed all points of doctrine pertaining to saluation And the ancient Churches haue beene farre ouer-secene that did not propound the former points to be beleeued as articles of faith but left them to these latter times Thus farre Master PERKINS Wherein are hudled vp many things confusedly I will answere briefly and distinctly to euery point The first is that in the Apostles Creede are contained all points of religion necessary to be beleeued which is most apparantly false as the Protestants themselues must needes confesse or else grant that it is not necessary to beleeue the King to be Supreame-head of the Church or that the Church is to be gouerned by Bishops or that we are iustified by Christs iustice imputed to vs or that there be but two Sacraments or that the Church seruice must be said in the vulgar tongue or that all things necessary to be beleeued to saluation are contained in the Scriptures To be short not one article of their religion which is contrary to ours is conteined in this Creede of the Apostles therefore to affirme as he doth all necessary points of religion to be contained in this Creede is to cast their owne religion flat to the ground and to teach that not one point of it is to be beleeued this Creede may neuerthelesse be called the key and rule of faith because it containeth the principall points of the Christian religion and doth open as it were the doore vnto all the rest and guide a man certainely vnto the knowledge of them by teaching vs to beleeue the Catholike Church which being the pillar and ground of truth 1. Tim. 3.15 Ioh. 16.13 directed and guided by the spirit of truth will alwaies instruct her obedient children in all truth necessary to saluation Then saith M. PERKINS The eternall truth of God the Creatour shall depend on the determination of the creature Nothing lesse for Gods truth is most sincere and certaine in it selfe before any declaration of the church but we poore creatures that are subiect to mistaking and error should not so certainely vnderstand and know that truth of God vnlesse hee had ordained and appointed such a skilfull and faithfull Mistris and interpreter to assure vs both what is his word and what is the true meaning of it Like as pure gold is not made perfect in it self by the Gold-smithes touch-stone but other men are thereby assured that it is true and pure gold euen so the word of God doth not borrow his truth from the Church but the true children of God are by the holy Church assured which is the same his word If we did hold as we do not that the written word containeth all points of doctrine necessary to saluation yet were it most necessary to relie vpoÌ„ the Catholike churches declaration both to be assured which books of scriptures be Canonicall which not whereupon Saint Augustine a man of far better iudgement than any of these daies said Con. Epist. Iud. cap. 5. that he would not beleeue the Gospel vnlesse the authority of the church mooued him therunto as also to vnderstand them truly because the words of holy Scripture without the true meaning and sense of them do but deceiue men and lead them into error and to that end haue alwaies beene and yet are by Heretikes abused to draw others after them into destruction The like may be said of other ancient Creeds and confessions of faith which holding the Apostles Creed did adde some few points vnto it namely such as were in those daies called into question by Heretikes of greater fame and who were followed of many not touching in particular diuers other articles generally beleeued of all true Christians or else by soâ—e fewe and obscure men onely questioned Wherefore to argue that no other points of faith are to be beleeued but such as are expressed in ancient Creeds is to cut off a great part of our faith Lastly it is most vntrue to say that those ancient Fathers and Councels knew not of these articles of faith by him mentioned for they haue most plainely taught them in their writings yea and expresly condemned of heresie most of the contrary positions now againe reuiued and holden by the Protestants as in those seuerall questions I haue before prooued R. ABBOT How M. Pirkins vnderstood that all necessary
we admit them all to be true doth conuince vs to haue disgraded Christ of his offices which are these to appease Gods wrath towards vs to pay the ransome for our sinnes to conquer the Diuell to open the Kingdome of heauen to bee supreme head of both men and Angels and such like He may without any derogation vnto these his soueraigne prerogatiues giue vnto his seruants first power to make lawes to binde in conscience as he hath done to all Princes which the Protestants themselues dare not denie then to determine vnfallibly of the true sense of holy Scripture which the Apostles could doe as all men confesse and yet do not make them Christs fellowes but his humble seruants to whom also hee gaue power properly to pardon sinnes Luc. 24. Ioan. 20. Mar. 16. Matt. 28. Whose sinnes you pardon on earth shall be pardoned in heauen and finally to them he also gaue authoritie ouer the whole earth goe into the vniuersall world Ouer part of hell no Pope hath authoritie and when he doeth good to any soule in Purgatory it is per modum suffragij as a suppliant and entreater not as a commander Whether hee hath any authoritie ouer Princes and their subiects in temporall affaires it is questioned by some yet no man not wilfully blinde can doubt but that Christ might haue giuen him that authority without disgrading himselfe of it as he hath imparted to him and to others also faculties of greater authoritie and vertue reseruing neuerthelesse the same vnto himselfe in a much more excellent maner As a King by substituting a Viceroy or some such like deputie to whom he giues most large commission doth not thereby disgrade himselfe of his Kingly authority as all the world knowes no more did our Sauiour Christ Iesus bereaue himselfe of his power or dignitie when hee bestowed some part thereof vpon his substitutes He goes on multiplying a number of idle words to small purpose as that we for one Christ the onely reall Priest of the new Testament ioyne many secondary Priests vnto him which offer Christ daily in the Masse Wee indeed hold the Apostles to haue beene made by Christ not imputatiue or phantasticall but reall and true Priests And by Christ his owne order and commandement to haue offered his body and bloud daily in the sacrifice of the Masse what of that see that question Furthermore he saith for one Iesus the all-sufficient mediatour of intercession they haue added many fellowes to him to make request for vs namely as many Saints as be in the Popes Kalendar yea and many more too For we hold that any of the faithfull yet liuing may bee also requested to pray for vs neither shall hee in haste bee able to prooue that Christ onely maketh intercession for vs though he be the onely mediatour that hath redeemed vs. R. ABBOT Christ by his office is our Prophet our Priest and our King Christ degraded by the Pope As a Prophet he hath declared fully and finally the whole counsell and way of God for the attainment of eternall life As a Priest he hath offered a sacrifice for our redemption and by vertue of that sacrifice is our Mediatour to intreat mercy for vs. As a King he prescribeth lawes whereby to gouerne vs and hauing a Matt. 28.18 All power giuen to him both in heauen and earth exerciseth the same to safegard and defend vs. In all these offices of which M. Bishop speaketh as if he vnderstood not what they meane the Church of Rome offereth most high indignity to the Son of God To take the points spoken of in order as they are first they are iniurious to the kingdome of Christ in that they giue the Pope authority to make lawes to bind in conscience which Christ only hath authority to doe b See hereof part 2. pag. 17.18 To bind in conscience is to tie the conscience and inward man to an opinion of holinesse and spirituall deuotion in the thing which is done so as to account the same a worship of religion whereby God is truly serued and honoured yea and further according to Romish fancies the means of remission of sinnes and the merit of eternall life This whosoeuer doth sheweth himselfe a deceiuer and an Antichrist and the Pope in so doing is found to be he of whom the Apostle prophecied c 2. Thess 2.4 that he should sit as God in the temple of God domineering in the hearts and consciences of them of whom it is said d 2. Cor. 6.16 Ye are the temple of the liuing God If Princes attempt to make lawes in this sort they are therein vniust and presumptuous against God Otherwise to speake of Princes lawes God himselfe bindeth the conscience to yeeld the outward man in subiection to the Prince when notwithstanding the conscience it selfe remaineth free as touching the thing which the Prince commandeth I know that in outward things it is true which the Apostle saith e 1. Cor. 6.12 10.23 All things are lawfull for mee I may doe all things God hath giuen mee no restraint To eat or not to eat to weare such a garment or not to weare it to doe thus or thus it is all one with God I am no whit the better the one way nor the worse the other way Neuerthelesse if my Prince command mee either way God requireth mee to abbridge my selfe of the outward vse of that liberty which he otherwise hath giuen mee and to performe obedience to my Prince yet still retaining inwardly the same opinion and persuasion of the thing in it selfe that I had before and therefore content to tie my selfe outwardly to do thus because I know inwardly that it is indifferent to God either to doe thus or thus The second presumption of the Pope against Christ is in taking vpon him infallibly to determine the sense of holy Scripture By which pretense he most impudently carieth himselfe bringing all abhominations into the Church and corrupting all religion and seruice of God and yet affirming that he doth nothing contrary to the Scripture because whatsoeuer the words of Scripture are yet the sense must be no other but what he list But well might we be thought to be without sense if so senseles a tale should preuaile with vs a thing which in the ancient Church for so many hundreds of yeeres amidst so many questions and controuersies was neuer dreamed of What needed the fathers so much to busie themselues and out of their owne exercise and experience prescribe rules to others for finding out the true sense of Scripture when as a Pope with a wet finger could haue helped them to the certaine and infallible truth thereof Yea why haue we so many Commentatours of the Church of Rome so various and diuers in their expositions and interpretations of Scripture and why doth not the Pope rather by one commentary of his illuminated vnderstanding reconcile all differences dispatch all doubts and resolue at once
non solumâ—t causa vniuersalu sed etiaÌ„ vt particularu ex doctrina Caluini Bezae coÌ„currit ad actiones malas as a cause vniuersall we make him in respect of sinne a cause particular wheras the blinde Iesuit if he had not been blinde might easily haue seene that we make God in wicked sinfull actions only a cause vniuersall in respect of the sinne though in respect of the order and vse thereof we make him a cause particular as who doth particulate and determine the same to this or that as by the words of Hugo Victorinus hath been before said And doth not the Iesuit himselfe confesse as much in the words which I haue alleaged For if God do wrest and turne the wils of sinfull and wicked men to his vse if he hinder them from doing or thinking any thing but what he will permit them to doe or thinke if he so gouerne and rule them as that he maketh them euen against their wils to serue him then he leaueth not the particulating of sinfull actions as touching their order to men themselues but he directeth them in particular to serue the counsell of his will He then that will weigh these speeches of Bellarmine and compare them with that that hath beene before discoursed of our assertion in this point will plainly see that the very euidence of the truth made him subscribe that doctrine against which he professeth to dispute and that he did but maliciously wrest the speeches of our writers to make to himselfe matter of controuersie where by plaine dealing he could finde none This is the triumph and glory of truth that shee aduanceth her selfe and displaieth her banners euen amidest the tents of them that are in armes to fight against her M. Bishop is a true scholer of his and out of the very same malice saith further that Caluin goeth on proouing that God doth not only suffer but actually effect and worke all the euill that any man committeth where he putteth those words actually effect and worke all the euill in a distinct letter as if they were Caluins words whereas Caluin in that that followeth hath no such words The like treachery and falsehood he vseth in the recitall of the other words that God doth worke this euill in man by satans seruice as a meane yet so as God is the principall worker of it and sat an but his instrument whereas the words of Caluin truely reported are these n Cal. Inst l. 1. c. 18. s 2. fateor interposita satanae opera deum saepe agere in reprobis c. Dicitur verò ipse dare homines in reprobum sensum quia iustae suae vindictae praecipuus est author satan verò tantum minister That God by satans seruice doth often worke in the reprobate but yet as by and by it followeth that God is said to giue men ouer to a reprobate sense and to cast them into filthy lusts because he is the chiefe authour of his iust reuenge or punishment and satan only the minister or instrument thereof In which words what is it wherat M. Bishop is offended Surely Saint Austin attributeth to God o Aug. de grat l. arbit c 21. poteÌ„s est fiue per angeles vel bonos vel malos siue quocunque alio modo operari etiam in cordibus malorum pro meritis eorum a power to worke in the hearts of wicked men according to their deserts either by good or euill angels and saith that p Idem in Psal 77. Deus vtitur angelis maâ—is ad puniendos malos sicut in istis â—mnibus c. Et post Eu tribue re sine dubitatione pâ—ssumus obdurationâ—m cordu illorum God vseth euill angels to punish euill men as he did to punish the Aegyptians by hardning their hearts and therefore calleth them q Ibid per illes velut militiae caelestis carnifices the hangmen or executioners of the warfare of heauen So where in another Psalm God is said r Psal 105.25 to haue turned the hearts of the Aegyptians so that they hated his people Å¿ Ibid. Benè creditur deus fecisse per illos angelos malos c. we may wel beleeâ—e saith he that God did this by the euill angels Now then why doth M. Bishop doubt but that satan and his angels are rightly tearmed the ministers and instruments of Gods vengeance the hang-men and executioners of his wrath against wicked and vngodly men Is hee offended to heare that God is the chiefe authour of this vengeance But that wee haue heard before out of Thomas Aquinas whom I trow hee will not gainesay t Tho. Aquin. supra poena refertur in deum sicut in primumactorem that punishment is referred to God as the chiefe authour of it The truth is that if hee had reported Caluins words aright he had had nothing to say against them but leudly and vnhonestly he falsifyeth them that hee may seeme to haue some colour for this slanderous imputation where indeed he hath none Now to goe on with the rest in the same order as I haue begun from the last to the first there foloweth MelancthoÌ„ Of the same cursed crue was Melancthon saith he whereas he himselfe rather here carieth the mark of an accursed wretch in that hee so wilfully belieth and slandereth Melancthon He citeth him vpon the 8. to the Romans where no such are and vpon the 9. of the same Epistle there are words words directly contrary to that forwhich he citeth them u Melanct. ad Rom. c. 9. Etsi deus impertit vitam malis tamen deus non est causa peccati sed voluntas ipsa in malis in diabolo homine transferens agitationem ad obiectum prohibitum à deo est causa peccati Haec sententia tuta â—era est ac sacris literis consentanea Quod autem in scripturis legitur Ego indurabo c. Tradidit eos c. similia haec figura sermonis facilè potest explicari siquis obseruet naturam Hebraici sermonis Certum est enim has figuras habere quandam significationem permittendi Tradidit c. non significat positiuè deum efficaciter seu proprio quodam motu rapere animos ad explendas cupiditates sed significat desertionem Deus deserit impios sinit eos surere non cohibet eorum furorem Ego indurabo c. id est sinam indurari non flectam genuinam impij cordis duritiam Cum autem buius desertionis mentionem facit poenam significat qua punit impiâ—s Haec est vera Grammatica interpretatio nihil habet absurdi Though God saith he giue life to the wicked yet God is not the cause of sinne but the will it selfe in the euill whether the diuell or man transferring the cogitation to an obiect forbidden of God is the cause of sinne This opinion is safe and true and agreeable to the holy Scriptures And whereas saith
Priest is q Mal. 2.7 the messenger of the Lord of hosts The Priest though he be by calling the messenger of the Lord yet sometimes neglecteth his calling and forbeareth to doe the message wherewith hee is sent and so the church though by duty it be the pillar and ground of truth appointed to vphold and maintaine the same yet sometimes forgetteth this duery and followeth lies in stead of truth For as the church is now so hath it euer beene from the beginning the pillar and ground of truth and yet we finde that very often the church of the Iewes in the time of the Iudges and vnder the wicked Kings of Iudah and Israel did forsake t Mal. 2.6 the law of truth which God had giuen vnto them went a whooring after strange and false gods and many waies prouoked him by their abominations For no longer doth the church continue to be as it ought to be the pillar and ground of truth than it continueth built vpon the foundations of truth ſ Eph. 2.20 vpon the foundations of the Apostles and Prophets as Saint Paul speaketh t Ambros in Eph. 2. Hoc est supra nouum vetus teslamentum collocati that is vpon the new and old Testament as Ambrose expoundeth it If it once go awry from those foundations truth falleth to the ground and it becommeth a pillar and fortresse of errour and vntruth Thus hath it come to passe in M. Bishops church of Rome which in her pride hath cast off the yoke which she at first tooke vpon her and hath magnified herselfe to be a Queene to giue lawes of her owne in stead of the lawes of Iesus Christ Shee is indeede by duety as all other churches are a pillar and ground of truth but being become the minion of Antichrist and prostituted to his adulterous desires shee hath learned for his sake and for her owne sake by him u 1. Tim. 4.2 to speake lies in hypocrisie and x 2. Pet. 2.3 through couetousnesse with feined words to make merchandise of y Reu. 18.13 the soules of men All which hypocrisie and feined words shee fairly gloseth and cōmendeth to men with this perswasion that she can not erre because she hath a promise of Christ to be alwaies directed and guided by his spirit into all trueth But where hath Christ made any such promise to the Church of Rome Whom and how the spirit of Christ leadeth into all truth Wee read that Christ said to his Apostles z Ioh. 16.13 When he is come which is the spirit of truth he will lead you into all trueth and wee beleeue that what hee spake to his Apostles he intended to the whole Church and to all the faithfull but neither doe we reade nor haue any cause to beleeue that Christ therein intended any thing in speciall to the church of Rome neither did euer any ancient Father or Councell gather any such thing out of those words And surely no otherwise doe they alleage this Scripture for themselues than the Manichees did for themselues and the Montanists for themselues For as the Manichees alleaging these words to colour their heresies against the Scripture appropriated the spirit of truth here spoken of to their Patriarch a August cont Faust Manich. lib. 32. cap. 17. Dicere soletis Ipse vos inducet in omnem veritatem c. de vestro Manichao esse praedictum Manicheus and the Montanistes in like sort to b Tertull. de Veland virginib sub initio Montanus as if in them and by them the spirit should direct the Church into all truth Euen so the Papists howsoeuer they talke of the Church directed by the spirit yet doe indeed put ouer the Church to the Pope placing the residence of the spirit in him that he may bee to the Church the infallible oracle of all truth In which fancie if they will expect to haue more credit than those heretikes had they must bring better warrant for themselues than those heretikes did But because they can bring vs none therefore we reiect them all alike as coseners and deceiuers of the Church pretending the spirit of truth for the maintenance of lies and claiming that credit to be giuen to an vsurping wretch which our Sauiour reserueth as proper to the holy Ghost The promise of the spirit as I said before belongeth to all the faithfull and of them all S. Iohn saith c 1 Ioh. 2.27 The anointing which yee haue receiued of him that is saith Austin d August in 1. Ioan. tract 4. Eadem vnctio id est ipse spiritus domini the spirit of the Lord teacheth you of all things Albeit when it is said all things and all truth we are not to vnderstand absolutely all for the spirit doth not teach vs to know e Idem in actis cum Felice Manich. lib. 1. cap. 10. Si hanc doctrinam putas ad illam veritatem pertinere c. interrogo te qunt sint stellae Ibid. Ego tibi possum dicere ea quae pertinent ad doctrinam Christianam how many starres there be as Austin opposeth to Felix the Manichee but he teacheth all things belonging to the doctrine of Christ as the same Austin there expoundeth Yea and yet further he excepteth by the words of the Apostle f Idem cap. 11. Dicebat Apostolus Ex parte scimus c. quia in i st a vita homo cum est non potest assequi omnia sed ex parte assequitur in hac vita ipse autem spiritus qui ex parte docet in hac vita post hanc vitam introducet in omnem veritatem Vide eund in Ioan. tract 96. We know in part and we prophecie in part that whilest a man is in this life he cannot attaine to all things but attaineth onely in part but the holy Ghost saith he which in this life teacheth in part shall after this life bring vs into all truth Hee therefore giueth vs to vnderstand that notwithstanding this promise of the spirit of truth it is incident to them to whom the same appertaineth to be ignorant in this life of many truthes to be subiect to mistaking and errour albeit the same spirit faileth not to enlighten them to that necessary truth which serueth for introduction finally to all truth And heerein the Apostle comforteth vs that g Phil. 3.15 that if any man be otherwise minded than is right God will reueale the same to him so long as in that whereunto we are come we proceed by one rule that we may minde one thing But wee are specially to note the reason which our Sauiour addeth to the words alleaged When he is come which is the spirit of truth he will leade you into all truth for he shall not speake of himselfe but whatsoeuer he shall beare shall he speake meaning thereby the same that he hath before said h Ioh. 14.26 He shall teach you all things
greatest Saint onely hee hath perhaps better laid hold of this treasure that is hath stronger faith than I. Now what is heere as touching equalitie of glory in the world to come Heere is a common brotherhood in this life wherein none can challenge more than other but this hindreth not but that who in this brotherhood doth the greater worke shall heereafter receiue the greater reward Albeit if Luther doe affirme equalitie of glorie what is that to the impeachment of the article of life euerlasting when as by the common iudgement of the fathers life euerlasting is that u Matt. 20.2.12.13 Aug. de Sanct. Virgin cap. 26. Hiero. cont Iouinian lib. 2. Gregor Moral lib. 4. cap. 31. penny mentioned in the Gospell which in howsoeuer great difference of worke and labour yet is indeed equall and alike to all Now albeit M. Bishop haue heere said whatsoeuer his malice could deuise and more than truth and honesty would haue said yet he would make his Reader beleeue that he hath omitted many other particularities that he might not be ouer tedious but what his other particularities are may be esteemed by those that he hath heere set downe consisting more in lies and cauils than in any matters of moment and trueth Nothing hath he said whereby it may in any sort be conceiued that either our doctrine tendeth to infidelitie or that it is without cause that we cry out against the Antichrist of Rome for corrupting the puritie of the Gospel 16. W. BISHOP First saith Master PER. it is a rule in expounding the seuerall Commandements that all vertues of the same kind are reduced to that Commandement Hence it followeth that counsels of perfection are inioined in the law and therfore prescribe no state of perfection beyond the scope of the Law Answ None of the counsels of perfection are enioyned in the tenne Commandements though for some affinitie they may be reduced to some of them For example It is commanded that I shall not steale that is to take any of my neighbours goods against his will but to giue away all my own to the poore is beyond the compasse of the law so likewise it is commanded not to commit adulterie but wee are not commanded to vow perpetuall chastitie and obedience Such offices only that are necessarily required to the performance of any Commandement are comprehended within the same but no others though some men take occasion of the Commandement to treat of the counsels of perfection R. ABBOT a Psal 19.7 The law of the Lord is a perfect law All works of perfection prescribed by the lavv and therefore prescribeth whatsoeuer is necessary to perfection It requireth b Deut. 6.5 Luk. 10.27 all the heart all the minde all the soule all the strength and because beyond all there can bee nothing more therefore there is no vertue no righteousnesse no perfection that is not commanded therby It is commanded saith M. Bishop that I shall not steale but to giue all mine owne to the poore is beyond the compasse of the law But I answer him that where it is beyond the compasse of the law there it is not a work of perfection but an act of superstition If God command it then not to do it is sin if God cōmand it not there is no piety but folly in the doing of it because God casteth it off with that reprofe c Esa 1.12 Who required these things at your hands Let M. Bishop tell vs when Christ said to the rich man in the Gospell d Luk. 18.22 Goe sell all that thou hast and giue to the poore and thou shalt haue treasure in heauen come and follow me did hee sinne or not in refusing to doe as Christ aduised him If not why doth our Sauiour except against his entring into the kingdome of heauen If he did sinne then he brake the law for e Rom. 4.15 where there is no law there is no sinne and therefore the giuing of all his goods to the poore was within the compasse of the law Hee boasted that hee had kept the law but our Sauiour Christ would discouer how farre he was from louing the Lord with all his hart which the law requireth who had so tied his heart to his worldly wealth as that hee could not finde in his heart God so requiring for the reliefe of his neighbour whom hee should loue as himselfe to void himselfe of the possession thereof To giue all that a man hath to the poore is then a worke of righteousnesse when the calling of God and the following of Christ requireth it and then it is commanded by the law To doe it when dutie to God requireth it not may wel be called a worke of supererogation but work of perfection it is none We are not commanded saith he again to vow pertuall chastitie and obedience It is true and therefore those vowes are no matters of true deuotion and religion but of rash errour and presumption Such offices onely saith he as are necessarily required to the performance of any commandement are comprehended within the same and I answer him that no offices are at all required but what are necessarie to the performance of some commandement For notwithstanding all that can be said or alleaged for aduices and counsels and howsoeuer it may be pleaded that they may seeme in some particulars rightly so called yet circumstance and occasion alwaies maketh them necessary duties and the omitting of them is either the violation of the briefe of the first table Thou shalt loue the Lord thy God with all thy heart c. or of the second Thou shalt loue thy neighbour as thy selfe there being reason of the doing of them either for the glory of God or for the edification of our brethren of which neither can be neglected without trespasse of the law 17. W. BISHOP Secondly saith M. PER. the Commandement Thou shalt not make to thy selfe any grauen Image c. hath two seuerall parts the first forbiddeth the making of Images the second the adoration of them Hee concludeth out of Deuteronomy that the Images of the true Iehoua are forbidden in the Commandement and consequently the adoration of such Images Hence he will haue it to follow that to worship God in or at Images with religious worship is abominable Idolatrie Answ First if the Images of God onely be there prohibited and then worship done to them according to his owne exposition then it followeth most cleerely that there is no probibition for either making or worshipping the Images of any Saints and therefore with a very euill conscience doth he wrest the commandement against them Secondly I say though God had forbidden vs to worship Images yet doth it not follow therof that we must not worship God in or at Images For as God is euery where so may he be worshipped in all places and as wel at or before an Image as in the Church and before the communion table
haue need to haue remission eucry day Now the collection against M. Bishop is pregnant and cleere for if to aske forgiuenesse of the sinne be to aske release of the punishment then it followeth that our petition being granted there is no remainder of punishment after the forgiuenes of the sin The ground of this collection he himselfe approoueth saying When wee in our Lords praier craue pardon of our debts we confesse that we are in his debt and that there is paiment of punishment due vnto vs the remission whereof we then require If then we here require the remission of punishment I aske him do we not require theremission of eternall punishment What haue wee the remission of eternall punishment without asking or praying for it Doth Christ teach vs to begge the forgiuenesse of temporall punishment and not of eternall Tell vs your minde plainly M. Bishop doe not glosse the matter with a false application of M. Perkins words A man committeth mortall sinne and thereby incurreth eternall punishment Hee commeth to God and humbleth himselfe and saith as Christ hath taught him forgiue vs our trespasses Doth he not heereby craue of God for Christs sake the release of of that punishment If he say no hee is more absurd than that Christiā eares wil giue him the hearing If he say yea he is confounded in the cause because it must then needs be granted that the hearing of our praier is the relaxation both of temporall and eternall punishment of temporall by his owne confession of eternall by a truth which hee must confesse whether he will or no. Their opinion therefore is not strengthened as hee vainly pretendeth but is plainly ouerthrowen by the true and necessarie construction of this petition 39. W. BISHOP The fourth point of our doctrine hence impugned by M. PER. is that a man in this life may fulfill the law Whereas in this place euery seruant of God is taught to aske daily pardon for the breach of the law answer is made that our daily sins are veniall and not against the law though besides the law but this which they say is against this petition for a debt that commeth by forfeiture is against the band or obligation Now euery sinne is a debt causing the forfeiture of punishment and therefore is not beside but against the law Answ I grant that euery sinne is a debt causing the forfeiture of punishment but this punishment may bee small and short and so the sinne veniall and the debt not against the law directly yet against the band of some morall duty as the misspending of time vsing of some idle words and the committing of such like light faults which I am bound in reason to auoid but not by any prescript law directly And thus in fine we see how foulely M. PER. was mistaken that thought to ouerthrow foure points of our doctrine at a clap when not so much as one is thereby any whit at all stirred R. ABBOT It will be well for M. Bishop that misspending of time and vsing of idle words be reckoned for veniall sinnes for God knoweth he hath misspent a great deale of time in the writing of these books and hath sent vs a number of idle words Tush saith he the sinne is but veniall and the punishment but small and short for such light faults But if it be a point of godly a Ephe. 5.16 wisedome to redeeme the time as S. Paul teacheth surely it is a point of folly to esteem so lightly of misspending time and hee will not so easily swallow idle words that regardeth what our Sauiour saith that b Mat. 12.36 No man liueth without breach of Gods law of euery idle word that men shall speake they shall giue account at the day of iudgement To come to the matter M. Perkins reason is very good There can be no forfaiture without breach of the condition of a bond Euery sinne is a forfeiture Therefore euery sinne is a breach of the condition of a bond The obligation or bond here is the law of God Seing then euery sinne and therefore euery veniall sinne maketh a man subiect to a forfeiture of punishment it must needs be that euery veniall sinne must be holden to bee a breach of the law of God And because no man can liue without daily committing veniall sinnes therefore it followeth that no man can liue without daily breach of the law of God I dispute not heere whether sinne be rightly called veniall in his sense or not I aime at the point that because no man by their confession can liue without venial finnes for which he daily saith forgiue vs our trespasses and euery veniall sinne is a breach of the law of God therefore no man can liue without daily breach of Gods law and therefore that no man in this life doth fulfill the law But well fare a schoole-tricke yet that shall put this argument quite out forsooth there is a twofold bond whence the forfeiture ariseth One is the law of God and veniall sinnes he telleth vs are not against the law directly wee are not bound to auoid them by any prescript law directly Thus faintly and fearefully he speaketh his owne conscience telleth him that they are against the law of God but being loth to confesse the truth which thus notwithstanding reigneth ouer him he minceth the matter with directly and indirectly But if the curse of God which is the penaltie of the law doe light vpon him for these sinnes what shall it boote him to say that he did but indirectly runne into it Well they are not directly against the law but against what are they directly They are saith hee against the bond of some morall dutie and we are bound in reason to auoid them Heere is then the other obligation or bond the bond of reason the bond of morall duty But is there any bond of morall dutie but only the law of God and doth not the law perfectly determine all morall duty or doth the reason of man find it selfe otherwise bound than by the conscience of the law Surely S. Paul saith c Rom. 7.7 I knew not sinne but by the law and hath M. Bishop a way to know sinne otherwise than by the law S. Paul saith d Rom. 4.15 Where there is no law there is no transgression and shall we beleeue M. Bishop that there is transgression where there is no law e August de pecc meritis remiss l. 2. c. 16. Quomodo non vetatur per iustitiam si peccatum est Neque peccatum erit siquid erit si non diuinitus iubeatur vt non sit How should it not be forbidden by righteousnesse saith S. Austin if it be sin and that that is sinne saith he shall be no sinne if God doe not forbid the being of it Doth God forbid all sinne or else it is no sinne and yet is there some sinne that is not against the law of God Well let vs leaue M.
condition of fraile and sinfull flesh Now because no part of this could be imported in that memoriall if it were a thankesgiuing for the Saints therefore whether M. Higgons will or not it must necessarily be taken to haue been a praier for them And heereof there is one argument more in the last part of the comparison when he saith of Christ that he is in heauen and of the Saints that they are in the earth by their bodies yet resting in the earth Where it hath some reason that they should say We pray for them as respecting that their bodies lie yet in the dust of the earth expecting a blessed and happy resurrection which we craue to bee reuealed vpon them but to say that they meant to giue thanks to God for that the bodies of the Saints lie buried in the earth it were senslesse and absurd And because it is confirmed vnto vs by the Ecclesiasticall Hierarchy that the Church did pray for the dead in respect of the resurrection therefore wee cannot doubt but that the memoriall heere spoken of by Epiphanius vsed for the Saints in respect of their bodies in the earth was a praier for them to wish their full and perfect consummation by the resurrection from the dead My former conclusion therefore hence deduced standeth good that sith the ancient Church thus praied for the Saints and Martyrs therefore that certaine it is they did not pray vnto them And because they thus praied for the Saints whose soules they were assured were in heauen therefore they praied for the dead without respect of Purgatory which now is made the onely ground and reason of praier for the dead 38. The next matter for which he questioneth me is concerning the opinion of the Greeke churches as touching Purgatory and prayer for the dead My words are such as might haue serued to weaken his motiue had hee not beene resolued without any motiue to remooue and run away What could he haue better to resolue him then that which I say that the Papists themselues confesse that Purgatory was not receiued or beleeued in the Greeke Churches and therefore that it is certaine that they had no respect of Purgatory in their praier for the dead I did not onely say that the Papists confesse it but I cited the places of their confession Alfonsus De Castro saith k Alfons De Castro adu haeres lib. 8. tit de Indulgent In antiquis scriptoribus de Purgatorio feré nulla mentio potissimum apud Graecos Scriptores quae de causa vsque in hodiernum diem purgatorium non est a Graecis creditum Of Purgatory there is in a maner no mention at all with the ancients but specially with the Greeke writers for which cause Purgatory is not beleeued of the Greekes vntill this day Yea not of the Greekes only but of the Armenians also he acknowledgeth that l Ibid lib. 12. de purgatorio vnus ex notissimis erroribus Graecorum Armeniorum est quo docent nullum esse Purgatorium c. they teach there is no Purgatory calling it an errour well knowen concerning them both The words of Roffensis their great and holy Martyr I cited out of Polydore Virgil m Polyd. Virg. de inuent rer lib. 8. cap. 1. ex Roffensi De Purgatorio apud priscos nulla vel quà m rarissima fiebat mentio sed Graecis ad hunc vsque diem non est creditum esse Of Purgatory there was none or very rare mention made amongst the ancient Fathers yea and with the Greekes it is not beleeued till this day Thus did they ingenuously acknowledge as the truth is and did it nothing stagger M. Higgons to finde this so plainly acknowledged Did it make him nothing doubt of his imagined mutuall dependance of Purgatory and praier for the dead Surely he was a very voluntary conuert or else he might easily haue seene that it is no good connexion to say They praied for the dead therefore they beleeued Purgatory but rather they beleeued not Purgatory therefore they praied not for the dead in any such meaning as the Papists now doe He might haue remembred that which I told Doct. Bishop that many amongst vs of custome and of humane affection of loue doe vse many times words of praier for the dead who notwithstanding from the bottome of their hearts doe vtterly defie both Purgatory and the Pope 39. In another place hee saith that it is n Book 1. part 2. cap. 3. ¶ 4. num 2. to our great disreputation that I name the Albigenses as professours of the same faith and religion which we now prefesse But why Forsooth he knoweth no cause himselfe but referreth his Reader to Parsons the Iesuit in his treatise of the three conuersions of England Yea M. Higgons would you make Parsons his narration a motiue of your recantation Would you giue heed to him whom you knew by the testimony of his owne fellows to be a man of Belial an infamous wretch a meere politizing Atheist and therefore likely if it were to serue his turne to deale with the stories of the ancient Christian Martyrs as he hath done with M. Foxes story carying himselfe in all that worke like a very Porphyrie or Iulian applauding himselfe and seeking to bee applauded in a iollity of forcing all things euen against the haire to scorne and mockery You say the Albigenses in their opinions followed the Waldenses as indeed they were the same some part of them onely being so called of the towne wherein they dwelt and would you beleeue Parsons concerning the opinions of the Waldenses who o Exam. of Fox his calen cap. 3. num 13. Of these Waldēses see at large Simon Goulart Catalog test veritatis lib. 15. Where thou shalt see how leaudly Parsons hath dealt with them disclaimeth Aeneas Syluius who was afterwards Bishop of Rome testifying their faith and doctrine vprightly and faithfully as of his owne knowledge that so he may giue way to other either carelesse or malicious reporters who impiously fathered vpon them strange paradoxes in no other sort than Friar p Edm. Campi decem rat cap. 8. passim Campian lately dealt with vs Yea and is not ashamed to cite q Three Conuers pag. 2. c. 10. num 29. Prateolus and Sanders for witnesses thereof whose ioy it hath been to finde out any thing were it neuer so vntrue which they might report opprobrious and disgracefull to them I doubt not but that the Waldenses and Albigenses might happily in some things be otherwise minded than we be and what are they in the church of Rome all in all things of one and the same minde but if wee respect the substance of their faith and doctrine as we may discerne the same not only by r Aeneas Sylu. de Origen Bohem cap. 35. Aeneas Syluius but also by ſ Alfons adu haeres passim Alfonsus De Castro and specially by t Sleidan Comment lib. 16.