lawful_a and_o also_o very_o useful_a to_o pray_v to_o saint_n depart_v and_o to_o angel_n that_o our_o soul_n after_o death_n before_o they_o enter_v into_o heaven_n be_v to_o pass_v through_o a_o certain_a fire_n and_o there_o to_o endure_v grievous_a torment_n thus_o satisfy_v for_o their_o sin_n that_o one_o neither_o may_v nor_o aught_o to_o receive_v the_o holy_a eucharist_n without_o have_v first_o confess_v himself_o in_o private_a to_o a_o priest_n that_o none_o but_o the_o priest_n himself_o that_o consecrate_v the_o eucharist_n be_v bind_v by_o right_a to_o receive_v it_o in_o both_o kind_n and_o a_o great_a number_n of_o other_o opinion_n which_o their_o adversary_n protest_v plain_o that_o they_o can_v with_o a_o safe_a conscience_n believe_v and_o these_o point_n be_v the_o ground_n of_o the_o whole_a difference_n betwixt_o they_o the_o one_o party_n pretend_v that_o they_o have_v be_v believe_v and_o receive_v by_o the_o church_n of_o christ_n in_o all_o age_n as_o 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also_o contrary_a perhaps_o either_o to_o the_o sense_n or_o the_o affection_n of_o the_o person_n from_o who_o they_o proceed_v thus_o before_o the_o spring_a up_o of_o that_o pernicious_a doctrine_n of_o arius_n who_o so_o much_o trouble_v the_o ancient_a church_n there_o waâ—_n very_o little_o say_v of_o the_o eternity_n of_o the_o divine_a nature_n of_o jesus_n christ_n or_o if_o the_o father_n say_v any_o thing_n at_o all_o of_o it_o it_o be_v only_o in_o passage_n and_o by_o the_o by_o and_o not_o by_o design_n and_o hence_o it_o be_v also_o that_o what_o they_o have_v deliver_v in_o this_o particular_a be_v as_o obscure_v and_o hard_o to_o be_v right_o understand_v as_o those_o other_o passage_n of_o they_o that_o relate_v to_o our_o present_a controversy_n do_v but_o explain_v the_o meaning_n a_o little_a if_o you_o can_v of_o this_o passage_n of_o justin_n martyr_n in_o his_o treatise_n against_o tryphon_n wherâ—_n he_o say_v that_o 1615._o the_o god_n which_o appear_v to_o moses_n and_o to_o the_o patriarch_n be_v the_o son_n and_o not_o the_o father_n for_o as_o much_o as_o the_o father_n be_v not_o capable_a of_o local_a motion_n neither_o can_v proper_o be_v say_v to_o ascend_v or_o descend_v and_o that_o etc._n no_o man_n ever_o see_v the_o father_n but_o only_o hear_v his_o son_n and_o his_o angel_n who_o be_v also_o god_n by_o the_o will_n of_o the_o father_n which_o word_n of_o he_o can_v be_v very_o well_o explain_v without_o allow_v a_o difference_n of_o nature_n in_o the_o father_n and_o the_o son_n which_o be_v to_o establish_v arianism_n do_v but_o observe_v what_o tertullian_n also_o â—ays_v in_o this_o particular_a namely_o fecit_fw-la that_o the_o father_n bring_v he_o forth_o out_o of_o himself_o make_v his_o son_n and_o portio_fw-la that_o the_o father_n be_v the_o whole_a substance_n and_o the_o son_n a_o portion_n and_o a_o derivation_n of_o that_o whole_a and_o many_o other_o the_o like_a passage_n which_o you_o meet_v with_o here_o and_o there_o in_o that_o excellent_a piece_n of_o he_o write_v against_o praxeas_n which_o will_v hardly_o be_v reconcile_v to_o any_o good_a construction_n in_o like_a manner_n do_v dionysius_n alexandrinus_n call_v the_o son_n 〈◊〉_d the_o work_n or_o workmanship_n of_o the_o father_n which_o be_v the_o very_a term_n that_o be_v so_o much_o quarrel_v at_o in_o arius_n and_o the_o lxxx_o father_n who_o condemn_v paulus_n samosatenus_fw-la bishop_n of_o antioch_n say_v express_o that_o the_o son_n be_v not_o of_o the_o same_o essence_n with_o the_o father_n that_o be_v to_o say_v they_o in_o express_a term_n deny_v the_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d or_o consubstantiality_n of_o the_o son_n which_o be_v afterward_o establish_v in_o the_o council_n of_o nice_a it_o be_v no_o very_o hard_a matter_n to_o make_v good_a this_o observation_n in_o reference_n to_o all_o the_o other_o dispute_n that_o have_v arisen_a in_o the_o church_n against_o macedonius_n pelagius_n nestorius_n eutyches_n and_o the_o monothelite_n to_o wit_n that_o the_o father_n have_v speak_v very_o obscure_o of_o these_o matter_n before_o the_o controversy_n be_v start_v as_o person_n that_o speak_v accidental_o only_o thereof_o and_o not_o of_o set_a purpose_n it_o be_v now_o a_o good_a while_n since_o that_o s._n declinare_fw-la hierome_n say_v that_o before_o that_o arius_n that_o impudent_a devil_n appear_v in_o the_o world_n the_o father_n have_v deliver_v many_o thing_n innocent_o and_o without_o take_v so_o much_o heed_n to_o their_o word_n as_o they_o may_v have_v do_v and_o indeed_o some_o thing_n that_o can_v hardly_o escape_v the_o cavil_n of_o wrangle_a spirit_n and_o this_o have_v also_o be_v observe_v by_o some_o of_o the_o most_o learned_a among_o the_o modern_n as_o namely_o cardinal_n 5._o perron_n and_o the_o jesuit_n consentiant_fw-la petavius_n a_o man_n high_o esteem_v by_o those_o of_o his_o own_o party_n who_o write_v upon_o epiphanius_n and_o endeavour_v to_o clear_a lucian_n the_o martyr_n from_o the_o suspicion_n of_o be_v a_o arrian_n and_o a_o samosatenian_a say_v *_o that_o in_o this_o question_n touch_v the_o trinity_n as_o also_o in_o divers_a other_o it_o have_v so_o fall_v out_o that_o most_o of_o the_o ancient_a father_n who_o write_v before_o the_o spring_a up_o of_o those_o particular_a heresy_n in_o the_o church_n have_v in_o their_o write_n let_v fall_v here_o and_o there_o such_o thing_n as_o be_v not_o very_a consonant_n to_o the_o rule_n of_o the_o orthodox_n faith_n since_o therefore_o they_o have_v do_v thus_o in_o other_o point_n what_o marvel_n be_v it_o if_o they_o have_v likewise_o do_v the_o same_o in_o these_o particular_a controversy_n at_o this_o day_n debate_v among_o we_o and_o that_o have_v live_v so_o long_o before_o that_o the_o great_a part_n of_o these_o controversy_n be_v start_v they_o have_v speak_v to_o they_o so_o obscure_o doubtful_o and_o confuse_o for_o my_o part_n i_o think_v it_o will_v have_v be_v the_o great_a wonder_n of_o the_o two_o if_o they_o have_v do_v otherwise_o and_o shall_v account_v it_o as_o a_o very_a great_a sign_n of_o forgery_n in_o any_o piece_n which_o be_v attribute_v to_o antiquity_n when_o ever_o i_o find_v it_o treat_v express_o and_o clear_o of_o these_o point_n and_o as_o they_o be_v now_o adays_o discourse_v of_o do_v but_o compare_v the_o expression_n of_o the_o most_o ancient_a father_n touch_v the_o divinity_n and_o eternity_n of_o the_o son_n of_o god_n with_o their_o expression_n touch_v the_o nature_n of_o the_o eucharist_n and_o certain_o you_o will_v find_v that_o the_o one_o be_v not_o more_o wide_a of_o the_o truth_n at_o this_o day_n profess_v touch_v this_o last_o point_n than_o the_o other_o be_v from_o the_o doctrine_n long_o since_o declare_v in_o the_o council_n of_o nice_a the_o council_n of_o nice_n express_o and_o positive_o declare_v that_o the_o son_n be_v consubstantial_a with_o the_o father_n the_o council_n of_o antioch_n have_v before_o deny_v this_o whether_o the_o father_n therefore_o affirm_v or_o deny_v that_o the_o eucharist_n be_v real_o the_o body_n of_o christ_n they_o will_v not_o however_o therein_o contradict_v thy_o opinion_n whosoever_o thou_o be_v whether_o romanist_n or_o protestant_n any_o more_o than_o the_o father_n of_o the_o council_n of_o antioch_n seem_v to_o have_v contradict_v those_o of_o the_o council_n of_o nice_a we_o may_v add_v hereto_o that_o as_o the_o arian_n ought_v not_o in_o reason_n to_o have_v allege_v in_o justification_n of_o their_o opinion_n any_o such_o passage_n of_o the_o ancient_a father_n as_o have_v innocent_o in_o passage_n only_o and_o in_o discourse_v on_o other_o subject_n without_o any_o thought_n of_o this_o opinion_n of_o they_o fall_v from_o they_o so_o neither_o to_o say_v truth_n be_v there_o any_o reason_n that_o either_o thou_o or_o i_o shall_v produce_v as_o definitive_a sentence_n upon_o our_o present_a controversy_n which_o have_v be_v start_v but_o of_o 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his_o own_o opinion_n and_o observation_n as_o apostolical_a and_o which_o have_v not_o use_v his_o utmost_a endeavour_n to_o gain_v they_o the_o repute_v of_o be_v universal_a s._n hierome_n allow_v every_o particular_a province_n full_a liberty_n to_o do_v herein_o as_o they_o please_v arbitretur_fw-la let_v every_o province_n say_v he_o abound_v in_o its_o own_o sense_n and_o let_v they_o account_v of_o the_o ordinance_n of_o their_o ancestor_n as_o of_o apostolical_a law_n it_o be_v true_a indeed_o that_o he_o speak_v in_o this_o place_n only_o of_o certain_a observation_n of_o thing_n which_o be_v in_o themselves_o indifferent_a but_o yet_o that_o which_o he_o have_v permit_v they_o in_o these_o matter_n they_o have_v practise_v in_o all_o other_o i_o shall_v not_o here_o trouble_v myself_o to_o produce_v any_o other_o reason_n to_o prove_v the_o difficulty_n of_o this_o inquiry_n because_o i_o shall_v then_o be_v force_v to_o repeat_v a_o great_a part_n of_o that_o which_o have_v 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thing_n may_v have_v happen_v to_o most_o of_o the_o other_o father_n and_o that_o they_o may_v have_v sometime_o disallow_v of_o that_o which_o they_o have_v former_o believe_v as_o true_a now_o from_o this_o consideration_n there_o fall_v in_o our_o way_n a_o new_a difficulty_n which_o we_o be_v to_o grapple_v with_o in_o this_o our_o inquiry_n into_o the_o true_a genuine_a sense_n of_o the_o father_n touch_v our_o present_a controversy_n for_o see_v that_o the_o condition_n and_o nature_n of_o their_o write_n be_v such_o it_o be_v most_o evident_a that_o when_o we_o will_v make_v use_n of_o any_o of_o their_o opinion_n it_o will_v concern_v we_o to_o be_v very_o well_o assure_v that_o they_o have_v not_o only_o sometime_o either_o hold_v or_o write_v the_o same_o but_o that_o they_o have_v moreover_o persevere_v in_o they_o to_o the_o end_n common_n whence_o vincentius_n lirinensis_n in_o that_o passage_n of_o he_o which_o be_v so_o often_o urge_v for_o the_o make_v use_n of_o the_o 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this_o father_n when_o he_o write_v the_o say_v passage_n be_v not_o yet_o come_v to_o the_o ripeness_n of_o his_o judgement_n and_o perfection_n of_o his_o study_n whereas_o afterward_o when_o he_o be_v now_o more_o full_o instruct_v in_o the_o truth_n of_o the_o sense_n of_o the_o church_n he_o change_v his_o opinion_n and_o retract_v as_o this_o cardinal_n say_v both_o in_o general_n and_o in_o particular_a whatsoever_o he_o have_v before_o write_v in_o those_o three_o prologue_n where_o he_o have_v exclude_v the_o maccabee_n out_o of_o the_o canon_n ibid._n and_o so_o likewise_o to_o another_o objection_n bring_v to_o the_o same_o purpose_n out_o of_o the_o commentary_n of_o s._n gregory_n the_o great_a he_o give_v the_o like_a answer_n say_v that_o s._n gregory_n when_o he_o write_v that_o piece_n be_v not_o yet_o come_v to_o be_v pope_n but_o be_v a_o plain_a deacon_n only_o be_v at_o that_o time_n employ_v at_o constantinople_n as_o the_o pope_n nuncio_n to_o the_o greek_n now_o these_o answer_n of_o his_o be_v either_o insufficient_a or_o else_o it_o will_v necessary_o follow_v from_o hence_o that_o we_o ought_v not_o to_o rest_v certain_o satisfy_v in_o the_o testimony_n of_o any_o father_n except_o we_o first_o be_v assure_v that_o not_o only_o he_o never_o afterward_o retract_v that_o opinion_n of_o he_o but_o that_o beside_o he_o write_v it_o in_o the_o strength_n and_o ripeness_n of_o his_o judgement_n and_o see_v now_o how_o we_o be_v fall_v into_o a_o new_a labyrinth_n for_o first_o of_o all_o from_o whence_o and_o by_o what_o mean_n may_v we_o be_v able_a to_o come_v true_o and_o certain_o to_o the_o knowledge_n of_o this_o secret_a when_o as_o we_o can_v hardly_o meet_v with_o any_o light_a conjecture_n tend_v to_o the_o make_n of_o this_o discovery_n namely_o whether_o a_o father_n have_v in_o his_o old_a age_n change_v his_o opinion_n touch_v that_o point_n for_o which_o it_o be_v produce_v against_o we_o or_o not_o if_o they_o have_v all_o of_o they_o be_v either_o able_a or_o willing_a to_o have_v imitate_v the_o modesty_n of_o s._n augustine_n we_o shall_v then_o have_v have_v little_o leave_v to_o trouble_v we_o but_o you_o will_v hardly_o find_v any_o either_o of_o the_o ancient_n or_o of_o those_o of_o late_a time_n that_o have_v follow_v this_o example_n unless_o it_o be_v cardinal_n bellarmine_n who_o have_v late_o think_v good_a to_o revive_v this_o piece_n of_o modesty_n which_o have_v lie_v dead_a and_o bury_v for_o the_o space_n of_o so_o many_o age_n together_o by_o write_v a_o book_n of_o retractation_n which_o book_n of_o he_o be_v very_o diverse_o receive_v by_o the_o learned_a as_o well_o of_o the_o one_o as_o of_o the_o other_o religion_n but_o yet_o if_o you_o will_v stand_v stiff_a upon_o it_o with_o cardinal_z perron_n and_o not_o allow_v the_o say_n of_o a_o father_n to_o be_v of_o any_o value_n unless_o it_o be_v write_v by_o he_o after_o the_o ripeness_n of_o his_o study_n i_o shall_v then_o despair_v 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