Selected quad for the lemma: truth_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
truth_n	ancient_a	church_n	doctrine_n	1,896	5	6.2759	4	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A20949	The Iesuites shifts, and euasions; or, his deportment in controuersies of religion. Or, A treatise, wherein the causes are examined why Mr. Arnoux the Iesuite, refuseth to answere to seauenteene questions propounded by the ministers of the church of Paris Wherein also the treatise of fiue euasions which he hath added to the examination of our confession, is likewise examined and answered: by Peter Du Moulin.; Fuites et évasions du Sieur Arnoux. English	Du Moulin, Pierre, 1568-1658.	1624 (1624)	STC 7328; ESTC S111074	27,667	44

of God either in this life or in purgatorie 10 Where God forbiddeth Priests and Monkes to marry 11 In what place of the Scripture we are commanded to adore the reliques of Saints 12 In what place of the Scripture there is any thing said of the place of Limbus for little Children 13 In what place of the Scripture it is said that the Church of Rome is the Soueraigne Iudge of doubts in faith and that she cannot erre 14 In what place of the Scripture the Virgin Mary is called Queene of Heauen 15 In what place of the Scripture God forbiddeth the people to reade the holy Scriptures without speciall permission 16 In what place of the Scripture power is giuen to the Pope to gather into the treasury of the Church the super-aboundant satisfactions of Saints and of Monkes and to conuert them into payment for others distributing them by Indulgences 17 Lastly where and when hath God giuen power to the Pope to depose Kings to draw soules out of Purgatorie and to giue pardons for seauen or eight hundred thousand yeares Vpon these seauenteene poynts which make the Body of Popery and wherein the abuse and tyranny thereof consisteth we aske Master Arnoux whether he will produce any places of holy Scripture to proue them and wee will content our selues with one place onely for euery seuerall poynt Our meaning is not to restraine him to finde these things in the Scripture word by word it shall suffice vs if he can finde them there in substance or that they can be deduced by good consequence For we seeke no delayes nor are not tyed to the number of syllables so the thing be proued in the word of God Now we must see what answere Mr. Arnoux maketh to these questions and how he proueth his Religion by the Word of God CHAP. II. Mr. Arnoux answere to these Questions THe Aduersarie maketh answere in these words 1. 100. page of Mr. Arnoux Booke First he saith it belongeth not vnto them to aske me the reason of my beleefe because I am in possession no man hath giuen them commission to pull the title of the inheritance which I hold out of my hands I answere that it is true that we haue no power to make him speake nor to binde him to giue vs an answere but the commandement of God bindeth him thereunto in the first Epistle of S. Peter 3.15 Be ready alwayes to giue an answere to euery man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekenesse and feare Iesus Christ made answere touching his doctrine to those that came vnto him although they were his enemles and had no power ouer him We haue answered Mr. Arnoux to all whatsoeuer he demanded of vs and obiected against vs although he hath no power ouer vs neither did shew vs his commission He hath bound himselfe to answere vs because he prouoked vs to speake For that asking vs a reason of our religion he might make his account that we would aske him a reason of his religion not in manner of reuenge but to let the truth be knowne and to shew that wee are better grounded in Religion then he is Whereas he saith that he is in possession of an inheritance and that we haue no commission to take it from him If by that inheritance he vnderstandeth earthly possessions and riches we enuie him not and wish that he had ten times as much more so he would become a defender of the truth But if by that inheritance hee vnderstandeth the possession of the true doctrine it is to presuppose that which is in question We goe not about to take a thing from the Church of Rome which she hath partly lost There needs no commission to aske a man what he beleeueth or the reason of his beleefe Charitie towards all men and a desire to lend our helping hand to him that is fallen and the zeale that we ought to beare to the defence of Gods cause sufficiently bindeth vs to speake and to propound the doctrine of saluation to those that require it It is to no purpose to say it is already long time since I haue bin in possession of this doctrine For Pagans Iewes and Turkes may say as much whose religions are ancienter then Papistry We dispute not by numbers or yeeres but by proofes The Church is in a Country where there is a written Law and not in a Country where custome onely ruleth There is no prescription against the heauenly truth which alwayes is most ancient for that vntruth or lying is but a corruption of the truth An ancient opinion once was new and if time may authorize a doctrine tell me how many yeeres at the least me must haue to giue authoritie thereunto Then we must proceed to the ground and to the institution contained in the Word of God And without speaking of the Word of God yet it will be found that the most part of the errors of the Church of Rome are very new As the deposing of Kings by the Pope the Communion vnder one kinde The forbidding to reade the holy Scriptures c. 2 Mr. Arnoux addeth and saith Their request should be more tollerable if they made it before some Iudge that had authoritie to end our difference If this excuse made by the Iesuite were allowable before he sets vpon vs he ought to finde out a Iudge that could set vs at an agreement But that notwithstanding we haue not spared to answere him because that although at this day there is no man to be found that is fit to be a Iudge of Controuersies with infallible certainty and soueraigne authority yet euery particular man ought to haue iudgement with discretion to discerne which of vs best proueth and iustifieth his sayings by the Word of God Then that should bee no hinderance vnto him to answere vs. 3 The third excuse that he addeth is no better then the former which is seeing saith he that they haue bound themselues to re-establish the Church that is fallen and that I offer my selfe vnto them to be drawne out of the ruines wherewith as they thinke I am inclosed It belongs to them to lend me their hand to shew me those notable places and to produce the Scriptures I answere that it is false that we haue taken vpon vs to reforme the Church and that wee haue bound our selues thereunto It is sufficient for vs to reforme our selues They call our Churches reformed and not reformers And they are called reformed because they are Christian Churches purged from Papistrie It is true that as euery true Christian is moued with compassion towards those that erre we could gladly wish that our aduersaries eyes were opened and that we could take the vaile of ignorance from before them But yet we take not on vs the title of reformers I am perswaded that our aduersaries which beleeue that they haue the truth on their sides would be glad if they could doe the like for vs

appropriated sense nothing contrary to the literall sense I will make our greatest enemies Iudges herein whether they would endure that in our confession wee should serue our selues with places of Scripture not agreeing with the literall sense but with an accommodated sense made for our pleasures and drawne for our profit for those places are interpreted for the Popes aduantage in an impious sense to perswade men that he ought to be adored by Kings and that he hath all power in heauen and in earth Are these the men that will binde vs to finde all that in the Scripture which we say and in as many words and syllables who in the meane time take libertie themselues to play with the Scripture with such licentious prophanation and thinke to carry it away by saying that it is an accommodated and not a literall sense which accommodated sense neuerthelesse they receiue for good and most certaine seeing they hold that the Pope and his Counsels cannot erre in faith After this Doctor hath so barely acquitted himselfe hee speaketh as being touched with compassion towards vs and giueth vs counsell full of wisedome saying Yeeld your selues to the Church and she will tell you all as if he should say Ioyne your selues with the Church of Rome and then wee will at leasure answere to your demands for by the Church he vnderstandeth the Romish Church which he will haue vs to beleeue to be the true Church before we know what shee ought to beleeue that shee may be the true and pure Church But why should shee rather be the true Church than the Greeke or the Syrian Churches which are ancienter than the Romane and purer and which Iesus Christ and his Apostles did plant and where S. Peters and the rest of the Apostles chaires are Thereupon Master Arnoux will haue vs plainely to shew which is the true Church if the Church of Rome be not the true Church but he saith that to mocke vs for he speaketh as if he should say Shew vs that but while you shew it wee will shut our eyes for the true Church is that which followeth and teacheth the true Doctrine contained in the holy Scriptures by that we must know it as St. Augustine saith Aug. lib. de vnitate Ecclesiae cap. 16. Vtrum ipsi Ecclesiam teneant non nisi diuinarū Scripturarum canonicis libris ostendatur Et eodem libro Ergo in Canonicis Scripturis eam requiramus Cap. 3. let vs seeke for the Church in the canonicall Scriptures that is that holy Scripture which they hide from the people Then these Doctors will haue vs to shew them the true Church but will not haue men to see that which onely maketh them to know the Church As if a man would haue one to shew him the best gouerned Common-wealth without knowing the rules that make a good Common-wealth He also will haue vs to produce our Commission and the charge that we haue from that Church Whereunto we haue answered in the 123. Section of the first Booke where wee haue handled the vocation of Pastors The effect thereof is that although euery Pastor of our Churches be lawfully called and according to the forme and manner therein required by imposition of the hands of other faithfull Pastors after enquiry made of his life and conuersation and of his capacity and doctrine yet it is not alwaies necessary to haue his commission and allowance from a pure Church and without errour He that is admitted into the charge of a Pastor in an hereticall Church as in an Arian or Nestorian Church and that hath beene receiued vpon oath to teach the truth ought necessarily to accomplish that oath and in the same charge to change his hereticall doctrine and propound the true Doctrine of saluation Not only because the charge of a Pastor in what Church soeuer it be by the nature thereof and the first institution is expresly giuen vnto him and instituted to teach the truth but also because that euery oath made to God concerning any good iust and necessary thing and whereinto a man hath not intruded himselfe ought necessarily to be accomplished And if it hapneth that any Pastors of an hereticall and an idolatrous Church as the Romish Church is changing their hereticall doctrine and taking on them to preach the truth and thereby draw a part of their flockes to follow the truth and that thereupon the other part obstinate in errour expulseth and excommunicateth them I say that they ought to be constant and not to abandon Gods cause that they may not leaue their charge for accomplishing their oathes but conuert their charge into the true vse thereof for they ought rather to haue a respect to Gods will and intent for the which hee hath instituted the charge of Pastors than to the intent of those that imposed their hands vpon them when it is contrary to Gods will and intent for a man is not established in the charge of a Pastor to doe the will of man but the will of God The force of the bond to obserue and keepe his oath proceedeth not from him before whom he taketh his oath or that maketh him to sweare but from God to whom hee sweareth and in whose power the punishments of periury are reserued Such was the commission and the proceedings of those whom God vsed to striue against Papistrie in the Church of Rome and openly to publish the holy Scripture which the Pope had suppressed who hauing beene chosen and elected Priests and Doctors in the Church of Rome to preach the Doctrine of the Gospel to the people and to be sacrificers of the body of Christ did beleeue that they were bound to performe the first because it is the ordinance of God and to leaue the second because it is the inuention of man Master Arnoux addeth a conceipt which hee saith is very strong and of much force the substance whereof is That no Testament is made without there be an heire That the Testament is the Gospel That the Church is the perpetuall assigned heire of this Testament the which by consequence cannot erre as being perpetuall inheritor of the infallible truth I answere that the inheritance which Iesus Christ by his testament hath left to the true faithfull Ephes 1.14.18 Hebr. 9.15 is the Kingdome of Heauen and not the guift not to erre And although the infallible truth of God might be called the inheritance of the Church yet it doth not follow that the Church cannot erre nor sinne against the truth So the law which is the intire rule of righteousnesse is giuen to the Church which neuerthelesse doth sinne against that Law How should the Vniuersall Church be without error seeing it is composed of diuers and particular discordant Churches among the which why should the Church of Rome rather haue the guift not to erre than the Greeke ancienter than the Romane or than the Syrrian much ancienter than the Greeke and where Saint Peters chaire is and which