Selected quad for the lemma: truth_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
truth_n	amen_n	jesus_n	lord_n	1,685	5	3.6084	3	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A80765	The disputes between Mr. Cranford, and Dr. Chamberlen. At the house of Mr. William Webb, at the end of Bartholomew Lane, by the Old Exchange: on March 1. 1652, and April 1. 6. 13. / Published for the satisfaction of all that love the truth.	Cranford, James, d. 1657.; Chamberlen, Peter, 1601-1683.	1652 (1652)	Wing C6822; Thomason E666_6; ESTC R206920	19,015	40

THE DISPUTES BETWEEN Mr. CRANFORD AND Dr. CHAMBERLEN At the house of Mr. WILLIAM WEBB at the end of Bartholomew Lane by the Old Exchange On March 1. 1652 and April 1. 6. 13. Published for the satisfaction of all that love the TRUTH MATTH 11.19 Wisdome is justified of her Children LONDON Printed by Gartrude Dawson and are to be sold by Gyles Calvert at the Black Spread-Eagle near the West end of Paules 1652. THat the Children of Truth may be sustained with Truth as the Children of Errour gorge themselves with the contrary It hath been thought requisite by divers to let those hours fly abroad into the World with faithfull Records which were for a while limited to a private house and small auditory Dr. Chamberlen being at first confined to two or three of his party and all the rest of Mr. Cranfords party unconfined The occasion was from one of Mr. William Webb's servants Mr. John More who being convinced of the Erronious Practises of the Ministers of England was Baptized the first of February one thousand six hundred fifty two whereupon his Master being displeased these Letters and Disputes following were occasioned The Copie of a Letter left at Dr. Chamberlen's about the second or third of February last A Letter left at my house intimating the first occasion of this Dispute BROTHER CHAMBERLEN OUr brother John More who was lately baptized and my self were here to acquaint you that through the earnest solicitation of his Master who is at present very much displeased with him about his present judgement he is ingaged to procure your assistance under God to dispute these two points with Mr. Cranford Our Brothers Master being very confident that Mr. Cranford will give you the foile therein The Questions are these 1 Whether or no a private person may Preach without Ordination 2 Whether or no the Presbyterian-Ministers be not the true Ministers of the Gospel Our Brothers Master desireth the meeting should be at his house he having a convenient Roome We desire you would consider of the Chalenge and likewise of a convenient time to meet Mr. Cranford which is all at present from Your ever loving Brothers John More John Spittlehouse At your house February 2. 1652. UPon which Letter Dr. Chamberlen consented to a meeting when Mr. Cranford should appoint The Questions being sent him under Mr. Webbs hand but being delayd and the noise of it being amongst Mr. Cranford's Party they began to report that Dr. Chamberlen durst not meet which put Mr. John More to a more eager prosecuting of the businesse with his Master and Mr. Cranford till at last he went with a Paper whereof the Copie followeth from his Master to Mr. Cranford The Copie of the Paper is thus The Questions stated by Mr. William Webb he ingaging for Mr. Cranford his appearance to dispute them with Dr. Chamberlen for whom I ingage Feb. 24. 1652. JOHN MORE Sir The expresse words are these which if you shall please to correct you may provided you under-write them 1 Whether the Ministers of London Presbyterian-Ministers be not Ministers of Jesus Christ 2 Whether private men I mean tradesmen may preach the Word of God without Ordination in the City of London This Paper was presented by the said Mr. More to Mr. Cranford which he owned but would not subscribe it To my much desired Friend Mr. Cranford SIR ALthough the Discourse that passed between us hath done that work which you say you intended yet hath it not taken that Effect I desired so long as you are disobedient to the Truth and so many misreports scattered into the eares of those that were not present I shall therefore humbly desire you to peruse these our Discourses in all faithfullness too your own soul They come forth with the Syllogisme compleated that they might not be fruitlesse to the Reader I have not accompanied them with many Observations till I see what acceptance they find on your behalfe for I would faine winne you by Truth and Love If all the Particulars of our Discourses be not in you may if you please supply what is wanting from some of your Party on whom I have waited somewhat the longer in expectation that you would have published them as was reported If yet you are not convinced but desire rather to mend any of your Answers or Discourses and to proceed in writings as formerly in speakings I shall be ready to endeavour your satisfaction by writing also provided that whatsoever is published on your behalf do bear your Name since no man can likely meddle with your businesse without your approbation In all which I shall endeavour not to depart from the civility and sincerity of being Yours in the Lord Peter Chamberlen A PRAYER O Father of Lights John 1.17 who gavest thy Son John 3.17 a Light unto the World Chap. 12.46 to be the Way the Truth and the Life Chap. 14.6 Who hath promised to give a mouth and wisdome to thy servants which all their adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist Luke 21.15 Unvaile thy Truth O Lord to all that love it that they may find and come into the way which leadeth unto Eternal Life And give me a mouth and wisdome to convince gainsayers to the saving of Soules Tit. 1.9 Through Jesus Christ our Lord Amen On the 25. of MARCH 1652. was the first meeting The Result whereof followeth AFter prayer against Prejudicacies and for the the Truth and a solemn Protestation to endeavour Truth not Victory The Questions being read by Dr. Chamberlen and owned by Mr. Cranford to have been presented to him It was thought good to fall upon the last first according to the first Letter because it was a subject which had been formerly disputed of betwen Mr. Cranford and Mr. Rowley at one Mr. Williamsons Mr. Chamberlen comming in accidentally The Conclusion of the Dispute ended in this That Mr. Cranford freely granted That in Eclesia non constituta or male constituta It was not onely lawfull for any Man but any Woman or Mayd to preach the Gospell The Arguments then by Dr. Chamberlen having been from 1 Cor. 14.31 Where all might Prophesie one by one and from Rom. 16.1 where Phebe is termed a Deaconesse of the Church of Cenchrea and divers other places and instances of Deborah and H●ldad and 1 Cor. 11.5 Act. 21.9 Act. 18.26 Pilip 4.3 c. The Question sent was Whether Private Men I mean Tradesmen may Preach the Word of God without Ordination in the City of London But Mr. Cranford not liking of the Question in those termes the Question altered by him was thus Whether Prvate Men or Tradesmen may Preach the Word of God without Ordination Having propounded the Question he explained it as followeth That by Private Men he meant in reference to Station or Calling And that sons of the Prophets might be Private Men though Publick by Designation By Preach he meant to Expound and Apply to Admonish Exhort Reprove Preaching is

Chamb. upon it replied that we may then take up the lamentation of the Prophet Isa 1.5 6. From the sole of the foot even to the head there is no soundnesse c. But can a clean thing come out of an uncleane Job 14.4 Doth a fountaine send forth at the same place sweet water and bitter Jer. 3.11 12. Do men gather Grapes of Thornes or Figgs of Thistles Mat. 7.16 17 18. Luke 6.43 44. Either make the Tree good and the Fruit good or the Tree corrupt and the Fruit corrupt Mat. 12.33 Many other things were spoken on both sides which could not be written down and indeed this Dispute was the most disorderly because some things were written and some not By reason whereof it is probable that both Mr. Cranf and Dr. Chamb. might have their thoughts diverted from a clear pursute of their Dispute and Dr. Chamb. at this time was so ill that he was scarce able to speak for Hoarsnesse Yet the Arguments will sufficiently shew what might fully have been proved in the matter And many other Arguments were provided All which may hereafter be mentioned if there be occasion They that are desirous of Truth may hereby be whetted on to a further enquiry if they be not satisfied They that are not desirous but of itching eares 2 Tim. 4.3 this is too much for He that is of God heareth Gods Word John 8.47 and 10.27 Something may chance be further brought to memory if Mr. Cranf or his Party shall think good to adde their Collections also Upon misreports of these Disputes these following Letters were occasioned which losing their place in the beginning are thus added for the better manifestation of the occasion of the Presse Erata IN Page 11. For you would fain draw me to believe it but you shall not draw me to it with horses Read Doctor I perceive what you would faine draw me to but you shall not do it with all the Cart-ropes and horses in Towne Meaning as we supposed Infants Baptisme For my much respected Friend Mr. CRANFORD SIR THere are some think much that so many hours of Discourse should be buried in a Napkin you may be pleased to unfold it to the World to prevent the overspreading of mis-informations unlesse you desire I should do it Let Truth be set up on a hill They that look upwards will see it they that love it will receive it They that receive it not in love may then justly be given over to strong delusions 2 Thes 2.10 11. Sir Let us not study our selves more then the Glory of God Your loving Friend PETER CHAMBERLEN April 19. 1652. Be pleased to return me your Answer 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Sir THe discourse that passed between us was undertaken by me upon a particular occasion and hath had its effect and done that work which I intended It is neither in my purpose to unfold it to the World nor in my desire that you should there are books enough already of this argument out of which they that desire satisfaction out of love to the Truth may by the blessing of God receive it to which our discourse will add little if any thing Yet if you have a mind to be printing I pray you deale ingenuously and truely in your Relation I conclude as you the Lord give us that we may study our selves lesse and the Truth and glory of God more Sir I rest Yours to serve you as I may JA. CRANFORD April 24. 1652. For my Reverend Friend Mr. CRANFORD SIR I Have no itch to provoke the spleen of men against me as all printing of the truth will But it having been reported that you had so convinced me as to make me forsake the Faith which I do professe and had subscribed to your Party I suppose I am bound to let the Truth appear to the contrary by giving as nigh as I can the true relation of what passed between us not endeavouring so much to remember the weaknesses as the main scope so solemnly protested before the Lord to enquire after the Truth so that having those things before your eyes you may have opportunity in coole thoughts to meditate thereupon and give glory to the living God and purchase assured comfort to your own soul in obeying the Truth And Sir I beseech you consider whether Paul were more glorious when he was riding to Damascus with Power and Authority and Attendants given him from the once beloved people of God against the true Churches or when being reviled and persecuted he escaped for his life in a Basket and ranne to Jerusalem Acts 9. When he profited more than many of his Equals in the Traditions of his Fathers or when he preached the Faith which once he destroyed Gal. 1.14 23. Yet Sir you may now professe the Truth upon easier termes I beseech you in the Lord consider what a miserable Ordination that must be which is squeezed out of an ulcerous Chuch as you confesse it and to believe that the most Holy God with such sacrifices can be well pleased Consider also what a strange kind of Discipline that must be that must be found in the Mothers belly as you say Children are taught in their Parents and what a refuge is this to pick out Children out of the Disciples of Moses in John 9.28 Therefore I humbly desire you in all Christian love and faithfullnesse to lay to heart whether it will not be better for you once for all to deny your self and confesse the Truth then to be alwaies subject upon all occasions of discourses or controversie concerning these and some other points to have such poor refuges and weak evasions Consider also what Glory you may bring to Almighty God and the Gospel of Jesus Christ in bringing many to confesse the Truth with you and no more to resist the Spirit of Truth and power of the Word of God Sir I know none can come unto Christ but those whom the Father draweth Joh. 6.44.65 and all that the Father hath given him shall come unto him v. 37. of which number if you be I professe I shall be willing to contribute all my endeavours and to hazard my life for you and look upon you as so much the more precious by how much not many wise c. are called 1 Cor. 1.26 so praying for you to the Lord who is able to doe abundantly above what we can ask or think I rest Yours in the Lord PET. CHAMBERLEN April 26. 1652.