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A17864 An examination of those plausible appearances which seeme most to commend the Romish Church, and to preiudice the reformed Discovering them to be but meere shifts, purposely invented, to hinder an exact triall of doctrine by the Scriptures. By Mr Iohn Cameron. Englished out of French.; Traicté auquel sont examinez les prejugez de ceux de l'église romaine contre la religion reformée. English Cameron, John, 1579?-1625.; Pinke, William, 1599?-1629. 1626 (1626) STC 4531; ESTC S107409 97,307 179

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by his spirit to supply all my defects and notwithstanding my infirmities not to faile to accomplish his power by weake meanes whether it be in confirming those whome he hath already called to the communion of his grace or whether it be in awaking others out of their security to the end that they may seeke his truth and in seeking it may find it and in it euerlasting life through Iesus Christ our Lord to whom with the Father the Holie Spirit be honour and glory eternally Amen FINIS Faults escaped in some copies PAg. 5. lin 18. for braue read some braue Pag. 8. line 21. for superstition superstition florished P· 11. lin 29. for accompany for the most part accompany 28.17 for won wondred 31.27 for liberally literally 132.1 for being true being no true Pag. 108. referre the citation out of Cyzicenus to that which followeth about Hosius and at u read Athanas. 2. Apol. Diuers other petty faults there are such as cannot wrong a● intelligent Reader a Vid. epist. de progress Rel. Christian ap Jndos b Munsler in Cosm. descrip F●is c Rom. 1● 2 d Gal. 1.14 e Rom. 10.3 f Ioh. 6.15 Act. 1.6 g 2. Cor. 3.16 h Mat. 15.3 6. Marc. 7.8.9 13. i Luc. 18.9.8 k Ioh. 6.15 Act. 1.7 l Ioh. 18.36 m Mat. 11.29 n 1. Cor. 1.23 o Act. 2.23 Ioh 9.39 49. a 1 Cor. 1.23 b Videsis Apolog Ch●●stian 〈◊〉 Ge●t●s viz duas Ap●log Iustini d●s●er Tatiani ●heoph C●em Alex. Tertul. in Ap●log Arnob. Minut. F●lic Lactan. Ioseph cont A●pion Cyp●ian cont Dem●t N●zi●n co● ●ulian c Minut. Fel. Arno● lib 7. Te●tul Apolog. cap 22· d Arnob. lib. 1. Cyprian contr Dem●t Maxim Im●er in edict ●useb Eccles. 〈◊〉 ab 9. c. 7. Symmach li 10. epi●t 〈…〉 e Tertul Apol. cap. 49. f Sym. in rel●● g Mecaen apud Dion lib. 52. h Act. 3.17 1. Cor. 2 6. i Ioh. 7.17 k Mark 7.5 Math. 15.2 l Ioh 8 33. m R●m 11. n Ma●k 1.27 o Ioh 6 42. Mat. 13. ●5 Ioh 7 49. p Act ● 5 q Gal. 1.14 Apolog cap. 1. a. Coster En●hir controu c. 1 b. Bordes de abus Missae c. Cens. Colon. p 9. And●ad explis orthodox lib 2. p 69 Eckius in Enchir p●op 4 pag 69. d. Pe●rus a so●● in defe●s de vno praes Iud. E●cles p. 108. co● 2. Pighius de Hiera Ecel 1. c 4. e Card. p●rro in t●●ct de i●suffiScript Pistorius cont disp Mentz f. 27 f Herman laudatus à Card. Hosio lib 3 de author scrip g Bellar. lib. 4. de verbo Dei cap. 4. Tertul de praescrip advers haeret c. 13. alibi b Ps. 45. v. 54. c Cant. 1.5 d Ephes. 1.21 4.15 5.23 Colos. 1.18 e Rom 8.29 f Esay 5● 3. g Phil. 2.7 i Act. 4.13 k Ioh. 7.49 l Luc 2.7 m Math 2.5 n Mat. 1. Luc 3 o Luc. 2.1.2.3 p Mat. 1.18.23 q Mat 13 55. Marc. 6.3 r Luc. 2.8 c. s Mat. 2. t Mat. ● 12.13 u 14. ●5 Ioh. 1.31.33 * Mat. 4 1. x Luc. 9.58 z Colos. 2 3. a Colos. 2.9 b Act. 3.15 5.31 c Apoc. 19 16. d Math. 3.17 e Thes. 1.14.18 3.18 f Phil. 2.6.7 g Ephes. 2 1● h Esa. 64.8 i 1 Pet. 1.19 k Ephes. 5.17 l Rom. 8.17 2. Tim. 2.11 m. Luc. 16.19 m Mat. 10.16 o Luc 21.17 p Ioh. 15 17.1● q Ioh. 6.6 r Luc. 12.12 s Ioh. 16.2 t Ma. 10 24.25 u 1. Cor. 1.26 * Mat. 11.25 x Luc. 12 3● y Hier. cont Lu●if●r z Th●odor●t Eccles. Hist. lib. 3. c. 16. a Athanas. in 〈◊〉 ad eos qui ●eg vit solit●r b Greg Naz. in orat cont A●●ian c Jn lib. cont Arri. Auxent a Esa. 49.7.23 b Ioh. 14.27 16.33 c Philip. 4 7. d Rom. 5.1 f 2. Co● 4.8 e Rom. 5.2.3 g Esa. 60.16 h Esa. 46 1● i Esa. 54.11 k Esa. 43.2 l Psal. 125.3 m Prov. 30 8. 1. Tim. 4.8 6.6 n Act. 14.22 o 2. Cor. 5.6 p Heb. 11.13 q Heb. 11.14.15 r Heb. 13 14. Apoc. 14.13 s Prov. 30.6 t 2. Chron. 36.22.23 Esd. 1.11 Esa. 49.28 45.1 u Petrarch in Sonnet beginni●g Fontana * In vit Malch Monac ad ini●i Psal 10● 15 Apoc. 17.17 a. Gal. 3.23 b. Cols 2 17. c. Colos 4.1.2 3.4.5 d. Luc 1.78 e. Malach. ● 2 e. f Col 2 7. g. Ioh 1.17 h. Gal. 4.1 et seq i. Col●s 2.17 Heb 10. k. Gal. 4 3. l. Gal 2.35.26 m Heb. 7.16 n. Colos. 2.19.17 Heb. 6.2 p 1 Tim. 4. d●e 5· 22. q marke 6.13 Iam. 6 14. Aug. ep 118. ad Ianuar. Aug. Jbid. Aug. 119. Epi. c. 9. Aug. ib. Esa. 29.15 Ioh 4.21.23 Colos. 3. ● a Ioh. 18.36 b Mat. 10.25 c Mat. 17.16 d Act. 23.10 e Rom. 13.1 1 Pet. 2.13.14 f 2. Cor. 4.5 2. Cor. 1 24. 2 Thes. 2.4 g 1. Ioh. 2.18 h lb. 2. Thes 2.4 i 2. Thes. 2.4 k See Monsieur d● Nevers his discourse of his embassage to Rome l Viz that of the Cleargy m Viz Monastick vows● n Witnesse the King of Polonia who by a dispensation maried his sister in law o Clem 5 in bu●●a indulg a August civit Dei lib. 10. c. 59 b 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. Plat. in vita Paul 2. a Joseph de bel Judaec l. 6. c 4. b. Gal. 2.11 c. 1 Cor. 11.18 d Act. 23. Bellar. de imag l. 2. c. 20.21 Vid. Sledian comment l. 22. Iohn 17. Iud. v. 12 a Marc 7.5 Math. 13.2 b Sym. in relat ●oh 5.39 〈◊〉 5 4● Math 25.6 f. Tertul. Apol. c. 19. h Arnob. Contr. Gentes lib. 2. i Ambros in r●spos ad Sym. celat Ezek. 2● 18 Tertull. de praescent 〈◊〉 Cypri ad Pomp. cont epist. Seph Epis. epist. 74. ex edit Pamell Cypr. ibid. a Tertul. contr Marcion l●b 4 ca. 5. b Just. Mart. in dial cont T●y Iren. cont Her lib. 5. c. 33. Euseb. Eccl hist. lib. 3 c. 36. Tertul de spe fidel prout cita●ur à Hier. in Com. sup 36 c. Ez●ch Vict ap Hier. ib. in Catal. script Ec●les in nom Papius Lactan. lib. 7. c 25. c Aug. lib. 1. de merit peccat c. 20 24 lib ad Bonif. cont 2. Epist. Pelag. c. 22. lib. ● c. 4. l. cont Iulia ● c 2. passim a ibi d Chrys. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 inacta tom 4. edit Sauil● Cypriari Epist. 74. a. Rom. 1. ● b. 1. Thes. 1. ● c. Math. 3.9 d. Iohn 8.39 e. Rom. 4.16 9.7 f. Ierem. 3.11 Ezech. 16.51 23 11. 2. King 16 21. g. Esa. 1.9 h. Ezech. 9.4 a 2. Thes. 2.3 b. Ierem. 7.4 c. Ierem. ib. d. Ezech 7.10 e. Gal 41.23 f. Heb. 11.13.39 g Zach 2.8 b Gal 1. 3.1 a. Math. 16.18 b 1. Tim. 3.15 c. Ephes. 1.32 d Cant. 2.16 6.3 f. Iohn 16. e. Math. 28.20 g Rom. 2.28.29 h Ib. i 1. Cor.
sufficiently looked after fearing to find it desirous not to find it Wee may then iustly suffer this taunt that wee fainted in our vndertakings that wee were tired in our iourney When they goe about to calculate antiquity now a daies they beginne not with that which is first the first epoche is where were you within these hundred yeares so in steede of going fo●ward they stop at a short period and retire homeward In the meane time this path were not to be neglected nor this method to be refused if they would not stop in their search vntill they came to the age of the Apostles for beateing this way so farre how many nouelties would their be met with betweene this and that of fresher date and which might be questioned where were you before which are not then of that ancient originall nor graced with the priuiledges of true antiquity which yet are antiquities in respect of vs and our times but meere nouel●ies in respect of the age of the Apostles That which was in the age of the Apostles is truely ancient and nothing ancient but that they are the fathers whose bounds wee must not remoue wee must inquire after the waies of these fathers as for those degenerate ancestors which came afterwards wee haue an expresse prohibi●ion Walke not according to the statutes of your fathers and regard not their-ordināces I am Iehouah your God walke in my statutes keepe my commandements and doe them Antiquity then is not to be accounted of but as shee is a witnesse of truth according to Tertullian that which was first taught saith hee is of the Lord and true That which is absolutely first then is to bee sought out and from it the calculation is to begun St. Cyprian giueth vs a direction for this calculation although he otherwise applyeth it which is as pertinent as it is familiar instructing vs that euen as a conduit of water which formerly ranne copiously and continually coming to faile vpon a suddaine wee haue recourse to the spring-head to know the cause of this defect whether it bee that the drying of the fountaine depriueth the running water both of an originall nourishment or whether the foūtaine being entire the water faileth in its course the pipe being either brokē or stopt that it being mēded the water may bee restored to the vse of the citty in the same plenty purity it proceedeth from the fountaine so saith he the Priestes of God ought to repaire to the originall and the tradition of the Gospell and Apostles in keeping his commandements to the end that the reason of our actions may be deduced from the same beginning whence that deriueth its authority That wee may not doubt what is the tradition of which he speaketh let vs he●re what he saith a little before to the same purpose One alleadged to him tradition whence is this tradition replyeth he is it from the Lord from the authority of the Euangelists or Apostles For that those things which are written in the booke of the law are to bee obserued God himselfe testifieth telling Iosuah that the booke of the Law the scripture should not depart out of his mouth If then it bee either commanded in the Gospell or contained in the Apostolicall writings that they which come out of any heresie be it what it will should not be baptised let this holy and diuine tradition be obserued St. Cyprian reiecteth not the baptisme of heretickes but only because he bel●eueth not that it was a holy and diuine tradition that it should bee admitted he is ready to receiue it if it bee proued vnto him to bee such a one giuing vs the rule to proue it by the apostolicall wri●ings He cal●eth then a diuine and holy tradition all that which may bee iustified by them as for other tradi●ions he putteth t●em aside with this sl●ghting interrogato●y whence is this tradition Now therefore such traditions as these we are ready to accept prouided that the Papists after the same method manifest their origin all vnto vs. When w●e demand whence is this tradition when beganne it let them answere vs it is drawne from the writings it hath beene from the time of the Apostles CHAP XVII That the only meanes to pr●ue true antiquity is to haue recourse to the begining by the scripture NOw that wee alledge St. Cyprian it is not to authorise the truth by the authority of men only wee borrow their words and fancies to expresse it Wee wish that it may be considered not who speakes but what is spoken But if better authority here be called for we wil alledge supreme authoritie that of the Lord prescribing vs the rule It was not so from the beginning Wisely then and fitly said Tertullian th●t which is the first is the truer and that which is from the beginning is first and that which is of the Apostles is from the beginning To which wee adde only that which followeth of it selfe that which is in the scripture in the writings of the Apostles is of the Apostles So then in respect of this antiquity doe wee not submit our selues to reason when wee yeeld that our doctrine should be reiected if it be not of the Apostles Are not our proofes authētique to cōfirme ●he antiquity of our religion when they are gathered out of their writings the writings of the Prophe●s Euāgelists The course which is taken to proue the antiquity so much talked of in the Church of Rome is a recourse to Fathers and Councells The more ant●ent these Fathers and Councels are proue t●ey not this antiquity the more euidently But what fa●hers what Councells a●e more ancient then the scripture what antiquity then is ancienter then the scriptures what title more ancient then that which is of the same date with the scriptures certainely it is an excesse of open blasphemy to equalize either fathers or councells to Scripture and yet this is done But though this be done yet it will not be said that the Scripture is of a fresher originall then the fathers and Councels Impudency hath not yet ventured so farre He then of whose side is the doctrine of the scripture hath gaine● the prerogatiue of antiquity and by consequent of truth So then this question about anti●uity is brought to this issue what wee are to examine which is the doctrine most consonant to Scripture this being cleared the controversie of antiquity need to trouble vs no longer It is impossible othe●wise to decide it for let them alleage fathers and Councells as long as they will this scruple still remaineth to knowe if the Apostles haue so ordained Vniversall consent cannot be called to witnesse in this case for to shew that it would ●e requisite to aske all persons of all ages vntill the Apostles If the name of vniversall consent be attributed to that which is beleeued by the greater part to the most received opinion yet how shall we knowe and iudge of this kinde of
they added to this truth their lyes to this spirituall bread their leauen then they sate in their owne chaire they were to be heard no farther then the true church stopt her eares against them the false she listned to them Thus we answer to this importunate questixon How may this be By the same reason also we are not perplexed for an answer when they aske vs what is become of our forefathers This interrogatory proposed by the Pagans to the first Christians extorted from them an answer odious in the mouthes of children speaking of their parents that God was marvellous in his waies but in all likelihood they were damned Thankes be to God we are not driuen to such straites In Paganisme there was nothing which might saue no word of grace and mercy in the doctrine published in the church of Rome there was something to be● chosen and they who picked it out carefully and applyed it to their vse were saued Why should wee doubt but that many thousands of our fathers did it God hath knowne how to preserue a church to himselfe in the midst of the most horrible Apostacies confusions and desolations happening vnder the old Testament since Malachie Should his arme be shortned vnder the new No but Eternall as he is he is alwaies like himselfe Now then let the importunate curiosity surcease those questions framed only to distract the simple Where was your Church Where were your Pastours Our church was in Babylon and her Teachers for want of better were the Teachers of Babylon Concerning that which they trouble vs farther with why therefore we haue not imitated our forefathers example why we are come out of Babylon if they were saved in it We will giue reasons for it hereafter in their proper place CHAP. XXV Of the true succession of the Church what it is that it dependeth not of succession either naturall or Politicke NOw because they mainely oppresse vs with the preiudice which they make against vs about Succession which they say is of great moment and pretend moreover that they haue it and that we haue it not that they haue continued alwaies that we are lately come in by the by crossing their line of succession let vs consider what strength this pretence for them exception against vs may haue Now that the ambiguitie of the word may not intangle vs we must knowe what kinde of succession they meane If it be a naturall succession from father to sonne from generation to generation we say that the succession of the Church dependeth not of such a succession It was and is still the prerogatiue of the obstinate Iewes that they are the successours of the Patriarches and Prophets in respect of carnall and naturall generation yet they are farre enough from being the true Church They haue succeeded their religious Ancestors in being men this succession is naturall They haue not succeeded them in being faithfull men this succession is spirituall If they vnderstand a politicke succession in respect of the place and auctority one succeeding another in order and without out interruption we affirme that the Church is not fastned to such a succession How often doe the Prophets complaine that the people of Israell their kings and Priestes were all gone out of the way and quite disordered by idolatry albeit their kings were successours of good kings and their Priests of good Priests The Scribes and Pharises enioyed not they this kind of succession which we call Politicke Were they for all that the true Church yea were they not seducers of the people corruptors of the Law sworne and deadly enemies of the Lord and his doctrine Now against this truth so evident it is impossible they should reply any thing but it will be very friuolous If it be said that Malachie prophesieth that the Priests lips shall preserue knowledge that the people shall seeke the law at his mouth wee answer that in that place there is not contained a prediction of an after euent but a declaration of a duty For indeede presently after the Prophet accuseth the Priest for hauing gone out of the way for causing the people to stumble A manifest proofe that these words the lips of the Priest shall preserue knewledge haue no other emphasis thē to signifie that the lips of the Priest ought to preserue knowledge There is nothing more frequēt in Scripture thē to propose a duty in the future tense Almost all the commandements of God runne in this forme Thou shalt haue no other Gods before me Thou shalt not make to thy selfe any graven image Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vaine c. He that should inferre vpon these formes of speech that these Cōmandements shall never bee broken would hardly proue himselfe a reasonable creature So the true succession of the Church is not alwaies ioyned to this politicke succession which of it selfe without the succession of piety is like to the succession of darknesse to light of sicknesse to health of an infectious aire to a wholesome of barrennesse to frui●●ullnesse of a Tyrant to a good Prince That ought to be accounted the true succession which is the su●cession of truth To haue the same minde and opinion is to haue succession of the same seate not to haue the same opiniō is to be contrary in respect of the seat The succession of the seate hath but the name of succession the succession of opinion hath the truth of it said Nazianzane and in saying so hath taught vs in what sense the Lord would haue the Scribes and Pharises to be heard as sitting in Moses chaire to wit when they tought like Moses so farre as they are the successors of Moses in doctrine But that hindreth not but that he hath commanded also to take heed of the leauen of the Pharises when they sit not in his Chaire but vpon a stoole of their owne making But what hath the Church of God then no certaine succession on earth Yea the Lord hath said that as the substance of the oke and Teyletree is in that which they cast so the holie seed shall be her substance But this succession is not tyed either to the naturall or to the politicke succession but it dependeth onely of the free disposition of him who turneth riuers into a wildernesse and the water springs into drie ground A fruitfull land into barrennesse for the wickednesse of them that dwell therein who turneth the wildernesse into a standing water and drie ground into water springs CHAP XXVI That the Popes authority is not originally deriued from the Apostles BVt to come nearer to this matter the Romish Church hath no kind of lawfull succession not that of gouernment and policie not that of rites and ceremonies no not the succession of persons least of all that of doctrine Shee hath not that of the policie of the ancient Church for in the ancient Church there were no
tyrannicall This is their comfort that they haue gotten on the one side that which they haue lost on the other so they would haue it choosing rather to be subiect to one who is far from them and whose greatnesse dependeth of theirs then to many which are neare them and whose lustre might obscure theirs In regard of this order therefore there is no succession in the Church of Rome In the ancient Church there were Elders tearmed Presbyteri from whence came the name of Prebsters Priests But the Priests of the Romish Church retaine nothing of them but the name Their Principall office was to teach and instruct where as the Romish Priests for the most part are vnlearned idiots and by consequence are no otherwise successours of those Primitiue ones then darknesse pouerty sicknesse succeed light wealth health Now this default cannot be excused by alleaging that it is the fault of the persons for so it is in Ecclesiasticall functions that were the incapacity of the person is the function cannot bee I call here the incapacity not simply the fault of the person but the impossibility of discharging the function The womā which hath no milke cannot be a nurse and if she take the office of one who hath vpon her this cannot be in the qualitie of a nurse shee cannot be a nurse beyond the name So he which hath not in some sort the abilities requisite for reaching he cannot possibly be a teacher if he succeede one that could and did teach he succeedeth him not as teacher but onely in his name Moreouer the Principall part of the priests office consisteth now a dayes in mumbling of masse and in being sacrificers of which there is no mention in the Primitiue ordination of Priests In the ancient Church there were Deacons now there are Deacons Archdeacons subdeacons But what haue these people of the ancient Deacons beside the name Take they any care of the poore yea they suck their blood by a cruell and importunate exaction of their reuenues Doe they serue tables yea themselues are sumptuously attended at their owne In a word seeing they doe not the office of the ancient Deacons how shall they be their successiours Concerning Monkes and Nunnes there will no● be found a syllable in scripture to signifie that there were any in the age of the Apostles St. Hierome who hath much extolled this profession fetcheth its originall from Paul the Hermite a faire time after the Apostles If else where he referreth its beginning to a time more ancient he contradicteth both himselfe and the truth being carried away by the excessiue affection he bare to this profession Howsoeuer the Monkes of these times cannot iustly be accounted the successours of these Monkes which St. Hierome so much commendeth What maketh a monke sayd he within citties These not onely abide in citties but euen in them build citties In St. Austens time it was theft for a Monk to beg now it is an especiall point of their sanctifie In St. Cyprians time it was not vnlawfull for him who had vowed continencie to marry afterwards now it 's a matter monstrously hereticall except when the Pope dispenceth with it who like a God vpon earth can doe whatsoeuer it pleaseth him and more also then God in heauen for he can make vice vertue and vertue vice by his dispensations CHAP XXVIII That the Ceremonies of the Romish Church are not of Apostolicall institution IF we consider the Ceremonies of the Romish Church we shall quickly see that the ancient simplicity and Apostolicall purity is not to be found in her that those decent customes of true antiquity are either quite changed by her or so extreamely abused that they are made vnprofitable In the flourishing time of the Apostles there was nothing vsed in baptisme but water afterwards there was added Chrisme and since that salt spittle What successiō haue these additions these new superfluities seing they had not their originall at the first institution of that sacrament The channell pipe as it were of succession here grew faulty and receaued in this stinking water running athwart The disguisement which they haue put vpon the holy supper is yet more prodigious they haue miserably and vnhappily mangled it they haue cleft the seale of the King of heauen in the middle and cast away the one halfe of it What is it that superstition dareth not to venture vpon We haue the institution canō of this holy sacrament recited by three Euangelists and by St. Paul Can there be any thing more pure more simple lesse stuffed with superfluous superstitious ceremonies lesse accompanied with pomp compliments Now compare with that purity simplicitie that nakednesse as I may say of ceremonies the histrionicall pomp the apish gestures and anticke trickes of the Masse can there be any thing imagined more vnlike vnto it and disproportionable What succession then may be conceiued or acknowledged where the dissimilitude is so great but a succession of evill to good or corruption to purity Moreouer what shall we say of their superstitious consecration of chappels altars pixes fonts Chalices plates vestiments holy oile holy bread holy water of their Beads Agnus Dei Images of their christning of Bells of the hallowing of ensignes and swords From whence will they fetch the institution of these trumperies Had they a heart of lead a face of iron a for●head of brasse yet they would not dare to affirme that any of these fopperies were in vse in the age of the Apostles What succession then of them can they pretend Lastly their processions their stately pompe at funeralls so Proud and magnificent that now they fondly liue and die altogether Came it from the Apostles Yea is it not a relique of the Pagā superstition CHAP. XXIX That there is no succession in respect of doctrine in the Romish Church BVt the worst of all is that they destitute of the succession of the truth which is the soule and life of the Church True antiquite beleeued that they which die in the Lord rest from their labours they beleeue that at their departure out of this life they goe to Purgatorie there to fry in as scorching a fire as that in hell True antiquity beleeved that when we shall haue done all that which is commanded vs we are but vnprofitable servants because wee shall haue done no more then was our dutie to doe They teach that man already culpable before God may merit eternall life ex condigno by exact proportion of the worke of the wages True antiquity beleeued that the sufferings of this present life are not sufficient to counterpoise the glory which is eternall They beleeue that they doe counterpoise them in merits Antiquitie beleeued that we are saued freely They beleeue that we are saved by the merit of our works Antiquitie beleeved that we are saved by grace through faith and that not of our selues it is the
heretiques Antiquity beleeued it wee beleeue it with antiquity They reiterate not the Baptisme administred by vs wee reiterate not the Baptisme administred by them this priuiledge aduantageth not vs against them why should it aduantage them against vs The true Circumcision was in the Church of the ten tribes it was not for all that the true Church an hereticall Church shall haue Baptisme yet for all that not cease to be a false Church not in respect of the Baptisme but of her heresie not in regard of that which is pure in her of the Lords institution but in regard of her rebellion against the Lord her owne impurity That they haue Baptisme then wee graunt but so wee say haue all heretiques so the ten tribes after their apostacy receiued circumcision this exception then is friuolous when they pretend that wee confesse that they haue the Baptisme craftily dissemble that which wee adde that they haue adulterated depraued it as much as in them lies Concerning the substance of Christian religion wee confesse that it is also amongst them but not pure nor separated not only from chaffe and straw that is from tolerable abuses but neither from the venome and poison of false doctrine Now it is no schisme to forsake a Church wherein is the substance of religion if it be accompanied with superstition impiety and sacriledge as gold and siluer in false coine are mingled with copper aad tinne It is true that the Church of Rome teacheth that there is one God Father Sonne and holy Ghost that for the redemption of mankind the s●nne hath taken to himselfe the nature of Man and in it hath expiated our sinnes by his death that he was buried raised from the dead taken vp into heauen sitting at the right hand of God Almighty That the holy Ghost sanctifieth vs th●t there is a Church a communion of Saints a remission of sinnes a resurrection of the flesh and a life euerlasting That by faith wee must rely vpon the mercy of God that by hope wee must expect the accomplishment of his promises by charity loue him This is indeed the substance of Christian religion which continueth so farre as the doctrine and outward Profession of it in the Church of Rome in this respect wee haue not forsaken her but these considerations make vs leaue her the title of a Church to which soe farre wee will alwaies be ioyned But what is it that hath not beene added to corrupt this truth what strange doctrines haue beene inuented to obscure it What heresies what Idolatry what grosse sacriledge vent they vnder the protection of this Truth which they professe These are the causes of our separation from them if amongst them wee could haue enioyed the substance of true religion without defiling vs with their superstition wee had tarried with them still But in these later times after the Lord had lifted vp the Standart of his Gospell and sounded with his Trumpet Come out of Babilon my people since the Angells haue flowne in the midst of heauen carrying the euerlasting Gospell and crying with a lowd voice Blessed are they henceforth who dye in the Lord for they rest from their labours and their works follow them not to runne to this standard not to obey this summons not to goe whither wee heare this inuiting voice call vs in breife not to come out of Babilon to goe vp to Ierusalem is a rebellion against the liuing God and a manifest contempt of his grace· Before this the faithfull whom God had reserued to himselfe in the Captiuity of Babilon as a residue of the election of grace though they were not separated from the superstitious yet they were from their superstitiō their groanes and sighs seruing in steed of protestations against it because that the Lord had not yet opened them away by which to come out nor as yet prepared them a place into which they might withdraw themselues In a word the time preordained by God to put an end to that miserable captiuity was not yet come As then it was not a sinne to tarry in Egypt before the Lord had sent Moses or in Babilon before the seauenty yeares were expired But God hauing sent Moses hauing giuen liberty to his people to come out of Egypt to come out of Babilon to tarry there still had beene manifestly to testify a consent to the superstition of Egypt and idolatry of Babilon so before the Lord had sounded vs a loud summons with his trumpet Come out of Babilon my people he sustained and supported his people in the midst of Babilon it was not at that time a sinne but a Captiuity to abide in it But for any to abide or linger in it after the publishing of this summons it is a sure testimony that they liue not in it vnwillingly but with delight and that at least outwardly they partake of her sinnes and so may iustly partake of her plagues Now to demand why God caused not this trumpet to be sounded sooner is to dispute against him it were to bring back those ancient questions propounded to the primitiue Christians why the Lord Iesus had not brought the light of the Gospell sooner into the Church to which St. Paul clearely answereth when he teacheth that the fullnesse of time was not yet come Why the Lord called not the Gentils sooner vnto his knowledge to which the same Apostle answereth noe more then that God hauing winked at the time of Ignorance now warneth every man to repent He hath the times and seasons in his owne disposing It often falleth out that they who cannot goe out of an infectious citty tarry in it and are safe but for all that they that haue opportunitie to goe out of it will not take example from them to tarry in it The sheepheard will lead his sheepe into pastures where are noxious hearbs rather then he will suffer them to bee famished but if he haue the opportunity of leading them elsewhere where no danger is to be feared the good lucke that God gaue him of preserving them in an vnwholsome pasture shall not disswade him from taking of them out of that to put them into a better That which the shepheard doth to his sheepe we are to doe to our selues so long as there was presented vnto vs no other place of pasturage then the Romane Church for want of a better wee were compelled to make vse of that But the Lord hauing graciously prov●ded vs a better miserable are we if we leaue not that and betake our selues to this In the time of a famine men liue pinchingly and wretchedly but the dearth being past and plenty restored hee that will not take the benefit of it deserueth to be starued to death Let this consideration then serue for the solution of the difficultie aboue proposed CHAP. XXXVIII That there is nothing which deserveth to be admired in the life of the Monkes of the Romish Church NOw it remaineth that