have ever had of your persons c. except onely in your particular opinions wherein the dissent from al Protestant yea all Christian Churches in the world M. S. Now let the Protestant Churches to whom you say you submit judge whether in these words there be not a notorious untruth For wherein doe the five Ministers and their Churches differ from many Churches in England diverse in Holland and generally all within the Patent of New-England if you account these places Protestant It may be you will object Mr. Parkers Letter and some Manuscripts from New-England and the Letter from Zeland To Mr. Parker his Letter we neede say little the Letter will answer for us though Mr. Parker little thought when he wrote it to finde an A. S. in England or that his brother Bayly would have printed his Letter seemingly to anticipate the disputation of the Assembly as if hee meant to beg the question though but with shewes and shadowes 1. Mr. Parker saith not one word for a Classicall Presbyterie the maine difference in hand but for a Congregationall that he would have in some things more managed by the Presbyteries of every Congregation without putting every thing to the vote of the people of the Congregation because some confusion hath followed upon it Doth in necessaries abuse take away the use There was confusion in the Church of Corinth Or is there any mention of this in the Apologie that all businesses of the Church must be put to the vote of the Congregation 2. That in that thing only there hath been an arguing on both sides M. Parker Mr. Noyse only are mentioned in the letter to be on the one side all the other Churches on the other against Mr. Parker and Mr. Noyse And 3ly Mr. Parker doth not say he won the day but as hee answered their Arguments as he saith so he confesseth they answered his Arguments and the thing is left to consideration Yea a godly man of New-England told me that the Churches of New-England did conceive that Mr. Parker had received full satisfaction from them in that point How ever it were all amounts but to a private letter subscribed by one man yet Imprimatur saith I. C. as if much to the purpose But looke but a little afterward to our answer to a Letter from Zeland and you shall find the judgement of New-England in Letters newly come over To any private copies or Manuscripts from New-England one Mr. Rutherford hath answered as too much jumping with the Apologie and opposite to Classicall Presbytery Another if it had come forth would have beene keener against A. S. then the Apologie is So that if â—he Apologie doe differ from that it 's onely because the Apologie more agrees with the reformed Churches of this Island And for the third it hath nothing at all for Classicall Presbyterie but some things touching the ordering of Congregationall Presbyteries and all these are but private intelligencers and mutuall advisers not determination or nationall No more then I suppose Mr. Cranford or A. S. will account the strange Queries on the Apologie and Scotch Commissioners Reply to bee the sense of New-England though made by one of that Countrey As for the letter of Zeland I cannot tell how to speak all the truth not offend some whom by my will I would not in the least displease Sure this will not offend to tell A. S. that in Holland if not in Zeland are some Churches that are fully with the five Ministers unto which some of them doe relate And to speake these things to the Letter it selfe being matters of fact I hope cannot justly offend 1. That that Letter came admirably punctuall upon the very nick after the first reply to the Apologie was out 2. That a Scottish Knight as it was informed nine or ten dayes before it was known abroad that the letter was to come said What if ye receive a Letter from Zeland disliking the Apologie or to that effect 3. That there is a Scottish Church of which one Spang is a very busie agent at Trevere hard by Middleborough whence the letter came 4. That there are in it many high passages seeming to some so prejudiciall to our worthy Magistracy that it justifies that of the Apology saying That the five Ministers c. give more to the Civil Magistrates then tbe principles of some Presbyterians do The said letter giving so too little to the Magistracy that the State of England I think cannot approve it here among us Verbum sapientisat est More may be thought upon evident grounds but not spoken here 5. Most happily by almost a miraculary providence in this nick of time came two letters from New-England to countermand Mr. Parkers Letter thence and the other from Zeland The first from Mr. Winthorp Governor of New England To his reverend and very good brother Mr. Hugh Peters Minister of the Gospel these deliver in London Our late Assembly of about fourty Elders met wherein the way of our Churches was approved and the Presbytery disallowed Winthorp Governor Decemb. 10. 1643. The second from another of New-England to another Minister in Old-England about the same time wherein we have these passages We have had saith he a Synod lately in our Colledge wherein sundry things were agreed on gravely as That the votes of the people are needfull in all admissions and excommunications at least in way of consent all yeelding to act with their consent 2. That those that are fit matter for a Church though they are not alwayes able to make large and particular relations of the work and doctrine of faith yet must not live in the commission of any known sin or the neglect of any known duty 3. That consociation of Churches in way of more generall meetings yearly and more private monethly or quarterly as Consultative Synods are very comfortable and necessary for the peace and good of the Churches 4. It was generally desired that the exercitium of the Churches power might onely be in the Eldership in each particular Church unlesse their sinnes be apparent in their worke 5. That Parishes Churches in old England could not be right without a renewed Covenant at least and the refusers excluded And were not New-England so farre the Churches of New-England would soon send a third punctually to approve the Apologie unless it bee for their neerer compliance with them who notwithstanding have written against them We have been the longer in answer to this clause because wee finde A. S. to bee but the Text of other mens Commentary-discourses who say That the five Ministers will oppose all the visible Christian Churches in the world If they did it were not such a wonder as for one Wickliff in one age one Husse in another and Luther in a third to oppose all the world The truth is all Churches generally partly by tyranny and partly by Security are grown so corrupt that to apologize for a through reformation seemes to
Non-Conformists come in a title of a Booke thus A most grave and modest Confutation A touch on W. R. his booke called The grave Consutation c. of the errors of the sect commonly called as W. R. sayth Brownists or Seperatists so his skill writes it for Separatists agreed upon long since by the joynt consent of sundry godly and learned Ministers of this Kingdome then standing out and suffering in the cause of Inconformitie and now published in a time of neede * VVhat now all or the greatest part of them come to our publik meetings and the Apol. disclaims Separation and Brownisme unlesse you would drive them to corners again c. against that pernitions evill Published by W. R. As if their sufferings were a seale of the just length of reformation how farre we must go and no further When as the most of them stood only upon the negative part What they would not have but onely a few declared positively of which some for a Congregationall presbytery or Church-way be it or be it not a pernitious evill as W. R. calls it God forbid that if wee have suffered for Christ in the behalfe of any piece of truth that therefore we should pride up our selves as having done so much or stint our selves from proceeding further in knowledge or affright our selves from suffering more if more truths bee to be contended for as the Apostle speakes or least of all through the sides of Brownisme or Separation to wound the truth Saints of Jesus Christ just in the nick of such reproachings cast upon them that disclaime in words and practise all pernicious Brownisme c. It cannot bee forgotten that the choicest doctrines held in England have beene called pernitious heresie And therefore it is an high peremptorinesse in a generall title to call all those things pernitious evils some of which are truths We have and doe disclaim Separation and Brownisme properly so called But if the Pope or the Devill * Mar. 1. 24. confesse Christ we will not therefore call that truth a pernitious evill I suppose all that W. R. book sets forth in heads and Chapters as to be confuted are some of those things hee means are pernitious evills As 1. That pag. 8. Many Parish-Churches are not rightly gathered 2. That p. 11. That they Communicate in a false and idolatrous worship as stinted prayers Homilies Catechismes 3. That p. 17. They want that Discipline and order which Christ in his Testament hath appointed for the governement of his Church 4. That p. 50. That it is objected against them that the ignorant and prophane multitude are admitted to all priviledges of the Churches Are these we give but a tast perniâ—ious evills Then you condemne Smectymnuus for writing the Parliament and Assembly for removing and about to remove these exceptions And most presbyterian Ministers in London for forbearing to give Communions to such multitudes Mr. Calamy said that an imposed Liturgie was idolatry And our worthy brethren of Scotland justly stood up against these enormities No wonder therefore if W. R. booke abound with weakenesses and impertinencies in stead of Confutation of such thing as these For I patronage not any false or unadvised speeches of Barrow or c. there used 3. A. S. Saying That the Apologists differ from the most reformed Churches in the world Some of which hee knowes are in Holland more in England most in New-England all publike Churches if hee speakes not falsly or ignorantly yet begging the Question whether the Churches named or the Classicall Presbyterian are most reformed To close our answer to this tell us no more of your multitudes the Lord keepe us all from the broad way that leadeth to destruction though many there be therein One Phinees one Elijah left alone in the eye of the world two against thousands viz. Caleb and Josuah in the truth are more to be honored then swarmes of swarvers I judge none The time is at hand that ten men shall take hold of one Jew * Zech. 8. 23. and so on one true christian Godly men may be hunted out of a Kingdom not of the truth meane while such a Kingdom may be without them but neere the more without judgments England was never quiet but worse worse since it hunted away almost a little Nation of Saints to New-England though W. R. joyning issue with A. S. will follow them with a blotting pen in print even to that Kingdome too Yea and take in his way many Churches in old England and some that are and lately were in Holland and then have at New-England none comes amisse that have gone an inch in reformation beyond W. R. his Non-Conformitie Like him who would strike all that were next him who e're they were that injured him And all this worke he cuts out for himselfe in his booke he calls a Narration of some Church courses in New-England ☞ O that all Readers that will not be wilfully blind would by the way observe how A. S. condemnes the Apologists as guiltie of dissenting from the Churches in New-England And W. R. condemnes them for agreeing with the Churches of New-England So that A. S. and W. R. doe not agree betweene themselves But you shall have an Answer to that booke of W. R. in a distinct treatise by it selfe ere long God permitting Meane while we goe forward with A. S. A. S. I am perswaded in my conscience that your opinion of Independency c. if it were admitted pardon my expression till I be better instructed could not but prove the roote of all sorts of Schisme and Heresie and consequently the utter overthrow of Christs universall militant Church M. S. If you speake cordially as supposing indeede that you may be better instructed it had beene best for you to have stayd for the Assemblies determination or to have conferred with some of them you write against before you had written and printed that desperate speech lest the inke seeme letters of blood to you at your dying pillow I warrant you if what one or many say onely would make an argument a multitude would say that a coactive classicall Presbyterie would be the root of couched Prelacy and Ecclesiasticall tyrannie But I will not be one of them to say so Probatum est in New-England that which you call Independency hath not procured but cured or purged out heresies schismes formalitie prophaneness more then some other Kingdoms that so hate and hit at mis-called Independency A. S. You sue for a Toleration and consequently for a Separation M. S. So then where Papists are tolerated there they are Separatists too It 's but the Noun of multitude between but that the Independents in England might tolerate and the Presbyterians might be tolerated would they then be Separatists Who desires separation but rather union in the truth If any hold the truth and stumble though of weakness at some smaller matters as you count them it is your duty to suffer
tyrannie I had much rather be a benefactor to the world by the communication of my hopes to it when I have any that may befriend it then to draw any man into pain or trouble with my self by imparting my fears But when Sheep bring forth Lions and Doves Serpents and calm Christian-like spirited discourses invective bitter and high rising raging Answers and Replies Difficile est prophetiam non scribere Who can but prophecie God of his mercy destroy the sign and make the prediction vain As for the Author of the black Observations and Annotations 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 he hath his wages well paid into his bosome for his work in the precedent and subsequent of this Discourse 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 As for Levi the Anatomist who hath joyned himself with his brother Anatomie of Independencie c. Simeon the Annotator to massacre the innocent Narration though for the present hee hath taken sanctuary under the shadow of the Figure Anonymi and for fear of the worst I mean dishonour and disgrace for fear of authority in this case swimming with the Presbyterian stream hee could have none playes least in fight with his name yet I make no question but his day also is in coming wherein his false translation of streight actions into crook'd reports will be corrected and amended according to the originall and the mysterie of his intentions in that translation truly translated into the knowledge and understanding of all men This Anatomicall or cutting Discourse according to my A. S. his calculation wants nothing of a perfect libell but only that it hath the formality of an Imprimatur to cover that nakedness of it otherwise as well in the Privatives of it as Positives I mean as well in respect of the want of the Authors name as of the matter and content of it quantus quantus est sapit libellum eúmque famosum Suppose his Narrative of Independent infirmities and miscarriages would abide the touchstone yet was it a grand over-sight in a man pretending to so much knowledge and wisdome as hee seems to do in this piece not to consider whether the dung-hils of Princes as well as of Peasants do not afford rags to them that will rake in them whether the independent story though written by an adversary yeelds that proportion in weakness which the Presbyterian Commentaries if but unpartially penn'd would do in wickedness I am not afraid to refer it to the conscience of the Anatomist himself to judge and say under which of the two governments the throne of Satan is lift up the higher and whether thefts rapines murthers drunkenness blasphemies sorceries witchcrafts c. reign and are like to continue reigning more in the Independent then Classique territories But I trust the men upon whose faces that dirt is cast will wipe themselves clean in due time and wrest the dissecting knife out of the Anatomist's hand I hear a bird sing that the bird in their breasts sings a note of innocencie from those aspersions For the present I shall leave this Author to the reward of those that intend to do God service in persecuting his Saints There is another Advocate for the Presbyterian cause step'd forth lately upon the Stage who adventures his name upon the confidence it seems which he hath of his work 'T is intituled A Confutation of the Anabaptists by T. B. This man with a party of his discourse faces the Anabaptists whilest with the main body of it he falls in upon the quarters of the Independents in which respect though I cannot justifie him in his intentions yet as touching matter of execution I judge him innocent Animum nocentem calamum innocentem gerit Independencie if I mistake not very much will never fall by the edge of his sword But Reader when shall we see an end of these disputes in the world and when shall the names of Presbyterian Independent with all others of the like troublesome and jarring importance cease from amongst us I cannot prophesie unto thee the justness of the time when this great wonder shall be but some few signes of this time approaching if ever it shall approach I conceive I am able to inform thee First when men shall begin to grow to a clearness singleness honourableness and Christian-like greatness in their ends making themselves and their own interests their foot-stool and the glory of God and the publike accommodation of the world their throne this is one great sign that that golden age we speak of is at the door The reason is because there is no hope scarce a possibility of a general accord amongst men in any degree conscientious but in the truth or mind of God revealed in the Scriptures No other band is like ever to gather them all or hold them longer fast together The reason of this is because in a great society or communion of men worshipping God aright I mean with uprightnesse of heart it is seldome or never sound but that some of them fewer or more have the truth of God revealed to them some in one point and others in another and that with such assurance or evidence of understanding that no arguments or reasonings to the contrary whatsoever are able to remove them or alter their judgements therein So that except all the rest shall come over unto them and joyn with them in such particulars as these there is no possibility of a thorough union in judgement between them Now there is no way means or method more probable and hopefull to bring men to the knowledge of the truth or which is the same of the mind of God delivered in the Scriptures in all things then that simplicity or Christian nobleness of spirit which we spake of in their ends The reason is because the tenour frame and constituting principles of the Scriptures are cast moulded and ordered by him that is the great Author of them on purpose to comport and fall in with such ends as were mentioned viz. his own glory and the publike accommodation of men from every particular and on the contrary to oppose thwart and cross every man in all his personall and particular ends whatsoever which have not a perfect intire consistence with those other So that he that is inspired acted and led by those high and noble ends the magnifying of God and doing good to the community of men can have no occasion or tentation at any time upon him to bow strain force or wrest any Scripture because in their native and proper sense and tendencie they comply with him and as the Hebrew phrase is speak to his heart whereas on the contrary if men be ingaged in self-ends and aims which are incompliant with the glory of God and the general good of men as when they make these their foot-stool and their own honor or greatness their throne they have a strong tentation amounting to little less then a necessity upon them to deal violently with the Scriptures to
somewhat narrowly throughout the Sect. 16 whole volume of his Discourse to finde something that with any indulgence of imagination might be conceived to look like a proof of this his opinion and can finde none save only that poor one of the examples of the Kings of Juda pag. 63 inforc'd after this manner It is the Civill Magistrates part to take away Heresies Superstitions and corruptions in manners after the examples of the Kings of Juda. Wherefore then is it not his duty likewise to take away all Schismes which are the high way to and sometimes from Heresie and consequently to deny Toleration which is a way to both Reader neither you nor I must be offended to have a mole-hill of proof given us for a mountain of conclusion You must know it is the manner of the Presbyterian School to hang great weights upon small wyars For what need Dictators argue But 1. If it be the Magistrates part to take away Superstitions Heresies c. Sect. 17 sure it is his part also to make himself able to discern superstitions and heresies from the true worship and truths of God Hee is to serve God in such a practice with his own understanding and not by the Proctorage of Presbyterie as you tell the Apologists pag. 48. that they must not serve God by a Proctor and if so you must untruss and deliver back again to him that Directive power in matters of Religion which you lately took from him 2. When the Magistrate takes away Superstition Heresie c. hee Sect. 18 had need have better security then a Synod can give him to save him harmless in case he should mistake and smite the truth of God in stead of Heresie and the true worship of God in stead of Superstition Gamaliel Act 5. 24. 28. 38 39. might have had the full Vote of a Synod or Councell for persecuting the Superstition Schisme and Heresie of the Apostles but this was not security enough to him he was afraid of fighting against God this notwithstanding And for my part when the civill Magistrate shall be far enough out of this danger of fighting against God I have nothing to say against his fighting with Superstition Heresie Schisme corruptions in manners c. Only my prayer for him unto God is that hee would give him a wife and understanding heart to consider and discern whether usurpation over the judgements and consciences of the Saints of God in matters of Religion be not as grand a corruption in manners as a Church or Kingdom is lighly incident unto 3. Because the examples of the Kings of Judah for want of better Sect. 19 arguments are so much importun'd to speak a good word for that executive coercive power in the Civill Magistrate with which A. S. would truk with him for that Directive power before spoken of let us consider with a little more freedome and ingenuity what they contribute thereunto 1. We do not read that any of the good Kings of Judah ever offered any violence to the true Prophets or people of the Lord except it were in passion as a Chron. 16. 10. where Asa is said to have been wroth with the Seer that admonished him and to have put him in prison Which fact of his I think A. S. himself will be asham'd to present either to Kings or Parliaments for imitation Therefore whatsoever besides may be prov'd from the example of the Kings of Judah in matters of Religion towards the rearing up of a Presbyterie in the perfection of its glory certain it is that nothing can be proved for the persecuting annoying crushing disgracing banishing fining the Apologists whom himself more then once or twice acknowledgeth for very pious godly and learned men 2. Neither did any of these Kings ever compell any man to be of the Jewish Religion nor yet to profess the Jewish Religion against their judgements It was permitted to persons of other Nations to live amongst them without being circumcised yea or without smarting for want of it 3. Nor do we reade that ever they attempted any thing against any Sect. 20 Sectaries or Schismatiques as A. S. would call them which yet abounded in great variety and numbers amongst them We do not finde that ever they finde imprison'd banished put to death either Scribes or Pharisees or Herodians or persons of any other Sect in the profession of the Jewish Religion that lived peaceably in their State Idolatry and Idolaters were it seems the adaequate object of their coercive power in matters of Religion 4. Nor did they nor were they to inflict any outward punishment Sect. 21 upon every kinde of Idolater though of the Jewish both Nation and Religion as first not upon covetous persons who yet are a kinde of Idolater Epbes 5. 5. Nor secondly upon those that worshipped the true God of Israel though with some violation of the second Commandement as when they sacrificed in the high places c. But first upon such only who apostatiz'd from the God of Israel to serve strange gods the gods of other Nations And yet secondly not upon such neither simply as such but as attempting to intice and draw away other of the people of God unto the same Idolatries with them Deut. 13. 5 8 9. 5. There are two reasons very considerable why the Kings of Judah Sect. 22 might be invested by God with a larger power in matters of Religion then Kings or Magistrates under the Gospel have any ground or warrant to claim from them First they were types of Christ which no King under heaven at this day is Secondly not the people only but the very Land over which they ruled were typicall also the one of the spirituall Church of Christ the other of the heavenly inheritance of that Church both of them holy and consecrate in speciall manner unto God If Kings and Magistrates under the Gospel can plead either these reasons or any other of equall consideration with these I shall not scruple an acknowledgement of an equality of power in them But otherwise to alledge the power of the Kings of Judah in matters of Religion for an investiture of Kings and Magistrates under the Gospel with the like justifies the arguing of the Prelaticall School which pleads the order of the Aaronicall Priesthood to demonstrate the necessity of a Metropoliticall soveraigntie 6. It no where appears that any of the godly Kings of Judah ever Sect. 23 had or exercised any power to suppress banish imprison trample upon crush or grinde the faces of any godly persons among them were they few or many only because they were for a while tender in point of conscience to concurre with the major part of the Priests Scribes or Levites in some things disputable between them and others in the Land Vntill A. S. shall dig such a treasure as this out of the Scriptures hee will never have sufficient wherewith to finish that tower of a Magistraticall coercive power in matters of Religion which he
of your Reason what doe you think of Sinite utrunque crescere Let both grow together untill the Harvest Matth. 13. 30. Is not here the toleration granted which you deny to be granted Non laclacti nec ovum ovo similius If it bee not this toleration certainly it is somewhat as like to it as like may be You know who the Housholder is that gave this order laid this restraint upon his servants otherwise the 37. verse will informe you And who doe you think should be meant by the tares You will not say the good sons of the Church at least so acknowledged by their Mother You cannot say with reason the loose vicious c. morally disordered sons of the Church because these were sown in the field before the Housholder sew that good seed therein spoken of v. 24. and 38. whereas the tares which must be let grow to harvest are expresly said to have been sown after v. 25. And besides such wicked and vicious persons as these at least as the danger and degree of their wickednesse may be ought to be gathered out of the State and then they cannot grow in the field till harvest by the hand of the civill Magistrate Therefore thirdly and lastly you must by the tares of necessity understand such in the Church as you call Sectaries Schismaticks Heretickes such as corrupt the purity of the doctrine of the Gospel by erroneous and false opinions or at least are look'd upon by the greater part of the respective Churches of Christ as such Which yet appears further by the reason which the Housholder renders unto his servants why he would not have them pluck'd up but grow untill the harvest lest saith he whilest yee goe about to gather the tares yee pluck up the wheat also There is no danger of hurting or plucking up the wheat i. the children of the Kingdome v. 38. by punishing civill or morall misdemeanours of men but if Magistrates or others shall be busie about plucking up Sectaries Heretiques c. they will be in continuall danger of plucking up the wheat First because many truly pious and conscientious men children of the Kingdome may soon be drawne into some unwarrantable Sect and opinion And secondly such opinions as are sentenced by the generality or major part of a Church as erroneous or hereticall and so expose those that hold them to the reprochfull names of Sectaries Schismatiques Heretiques very often fall out to be the sacred truths of God and the persons holding them forth unto the world the best and faithfull est of his servants For your sixteenth reason it concerneth others more then the Apologists His 16. Reason answered to answer the frame of it being an indignabund relation whether true or no caveat lector of what hard measure the New-Englanders offered to some that desired to sit downe amongst them because they differed a little from them in point of discipline The men here charged are of age to speak for themselves and besides want no abilities otherwise I make no question but if they had but the correcting of A. S. his Relation they would be able to make more reason and equity of it then without some correction or other I am able to doe But to leave our brethren in New-England to their own Apologie I would fain know of A. S. what he means to do with his story or how he intends to bring it under contribution to his cause For first he doth not onely not approve of those proceedings which he relateth but is very passionate and intemperate in the very relation Delicti fles idem reprehensor Author Is the man so full of the spirit of reprehension against such practises and yet so full of the spirit of imitation also Or what Is his desire so great to appropriate or ingrosse the power and practice of persecuting for difference in religion to himselfe and his own party that he is not able patiently to beare the sight of either in others If your brethren in New-England stumbled at the stone you speak of persecuted as you say those that were approved by themselves both for their life and doctrine meerly because they differed a little from them in point of discipline you have a faire warning take heed that you doe not stumble at the same stone also They it's like justified themselves in themselves in those proceedings though they did not so in the fight of God but if you having condemned them in what they did shall neverthelesse run the same course you wil be both 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 both self-condemned and God-condemned also and so have no cloak nor shelter for your sin But you think it no wayes reasonable that the Apologists being of the same profession as you speak should be suiters for a toleration in Old-England We answer first if you speak with reference to those proceedings immediatly before reported by you you are more of the same profession with them then your brethren the Apologists These doe not professe persecution meerly for a little difference in point of Discipline the world knowes who they are that do little lesse Secondly what though men of the same profession with them miscarried for want of such light as should have directed them in a better way must this be a band of conscience upon them to bow down their backes without any more adoe and to suffer Presbyterian greatnesse to go over them as the stones in the street Nay thirdly they have the more reason and necessitie in regard of such a miscarriage of their brethren to sue for a toleration here because by that miscarriage of theirs they are awakened to expect and feare yet far harder measure from you and your partie if they doe not bestirre themselves by some means or other to prevent it He that feeles the smart of rods to be grievous hath the more reason not the lesse to take heed of being beaten with Scorpions Fourthly and lastly why should you any wayes be against your brethren suing for a toleration when as there lies a necessity upon you to grant it or consent to it unlesse you mean to steere that New-England course which you have with so high a hand of indignation contested with in this very reason Except haply you have this ingenuous reach in it for your reputations that you would honest is precibus occurrere prevent all honest and reasonable requests with the early forwardnesse of your bountie If I could reasonably thinke this to bee your designe I would seriously perswade with the Apologists to wave their suit for a toleration and so to gratifie you with an honourable opportunitie of doing good before you were provoked by any mans suit or motion to it But men that are subject to feares are seldome sons of bounty The bottome it seems of all that A. S. hath pleaded throughout his Discourse against the Toleration of Apologisme is a solemne fear that possesseth him of being
reprove all and so all are ready to be offended that are lesse reformed We have heard of sad stories of late but true not teld in a corner of the lamentable over-spreading of Popery Atheisme drunkennesse in some kingdomes and adulterie formality c. in others If we reforme but in part by halves imitating Hen. 8. towards the Pope cutting off the head of Prelacie and sitting down in their Chaire similia non sunt contraria as Mr Davenport meeting with a Classicall Presbytery in his way to New-England said they were but thirteen Bishops for one the cry of the sin against our light and opportunity will call back our reeling Reformation like will hasten to like an unblest posture will leave us unhealed of our sins and our sins will make us become any thing Had not the Abbeys been pulled downe the Priories since had had opportunity to have risen Therefore Moses grinds the Idol to powder that it might be quite abolished I speak all this by way of supposition what shall upon full debate be found to be the Idol the nest of Popery the Chair of Prelacy the half-reformation Thus of your charging the five Ministers with dissenting from all Protestant Churches The expression that follows is a most grosse one That they differ from all Christian Churches I say grosse in two things 1. To call them Churches and Christian that are not Protestant and ergo are Popish now since the Councell of Trent wherein they gave Christ a bill of divorce as the learned assert anathematizing most of his main truths The Popish notwithstanding a few Saints in secret here and there are in a dependance on Antichrist 2. To charge it as a crime on the five Ministers to differ from them when as it is a sin and shame not to dissent from them If you dissent not from them you will never kindly dissent from the intituled Mo. R. A. BB. and Rt. Rev. BB. I observe that men in their Replies secretly afore they are aware ☜ run to the Popish markes of a Church viz. Visibility Succession Vniversalitie A. S. You as my selfe are but men yet ye know but in part and consequently may erre M. S. Yet this one man thinks he hath more knowledge to his part then the other five Ministers or else sure he would not so boldly condemne them of erring in a point which all the Assembly have not yet determined and so peremptorily acquit himself A. S. I thought this which is the question between you and all the Churches in the Christian world M. S. This untruth comes thick upon us that the Apol. differs from all the Christian world It is intimated in the title It is expressed in the very beginning of the Epistle and here againe and once more in 3. pag. of the Epist and once in Consid 5. and how oft more in the book I doe not yet know till I find as I goe We have answered it once for all in the threshold of this Epistle A. S. I esteemed it no lesse a part of my dutie and Christian libertie as a man to oppose my selfe to five men then for five men to oppose five hundred thousand c. M. S. Hear ye O all ye men on earth that A. S. saith it is his Christian liberty to oppose the five Ministers but the whole scope of his booke is to rebuke them upon supposition that they doe oppose others whiles they tell them wherein they agree with them One instance follows at the heâ—l of his Christian liberty to which by and by Mean while Reader observe how this mans words do smell popishly though I think the man to be a real Protestant as if they came from Rome intimating as if visibilitie universalitie and so pluralitie of voyces of learned men might be an unerring or very certain argument He speaks as if he had forgot or never heard of Wickliff many yeares after him Husse long after him Luther justly opposing the whole world as we all religiously maintain at this day And that one Paphnutius opposed a whole Councel mistaken in a point which is upon record of History to his great honour to this day A. S. Five men to oppose so many learned men so many holy Divines hundreds and thousands for one of you no way inferiour to the learnedest and best among you and not only to particular men and Divines but to so many yea and those the most pure and most reformed Churches of the world amongst whom there have been found so many thousands who have sealed Christs truth with the losse of their goods imprisonment of their bodies by exile of their persons yea with their dearest blood and lives who if they wrote not miracles yet God declared his almighty power in working miracles about them c. M. S. Here we have in forme and I will not say how much more a Popish argument I will not say a mopish argument I abhor flying on men instead of matter To this I will speake and then they that will be deceived let them be deceived First you * Doctrines and practises prove men good not men doctrines and practises good dub such a number of men and people Saints most reformed learned no way inferiour to the learnedst and best among the five Ministers as if you knew perfectly all mens spirits mens lives in all places in the world and the five Ministers parts c. intus incute Then secondly as before you came what R. Reverend and most Reverend I desire to speake it no other way then with a Christian griefe and anger against such Sophismes so now you Cant to us as it were the Popish Prelaticall Letanie and Te Deum As if by the temptations and fastings by the passions by the deaths and burialls of suffering Christians The noble army of Martyrs praising the holy Church throughout all the world acknowledging you would conjure us to yeeld any thing upon pluralitie of voyces or topick arguments that may are turned every way and used by all sorts good and bad for their owne waies 1. Men living in a notorious sinne of grosse usury unjust enclosures monopolizing c. First They will tell you of severall Ministers c. very holy men and then secondly They will tell you that those Ministers doe approve of those things 2. The Malignants now cry that so many good Lords so many Parliament men most of two Kingdomes are for the King Ergo the King doth well beleeve it who so will The Papists proclaime that they have pluralitie of voyces Martyrs c. Ergo they are in the right So the Prelacie tell us that of Bishops were many Martyrs to which Smâ—ctymnuus answers by them was composed the Liturgie and they have a thousand for one of them so they had formerly and most of the learned Doctors c. Scholars Divines and Lawyers were for them therefore they were in the right Then some of our respected brethren of the reputed godly