Selected quad for the lemma: truth_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
truth_n	age_n	church_n	true_a	1,952	5	4.9061	4	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A10907	An answer to Mr. Fisher the Iesuite, his fiue propositions concerning Luther. By Mr. Rogers, that worthy Oxford diuine. VVith some passages also of the said Mr. Rogers with the said Mr. Fisher. Hereunto is annexed Mr. VV.C. his dialogue of the said argument, wherein is discouered Fishers folly	Rogers, Henry, ca. 1585-1658.; Crashaw, William, 1572-1626. aut	1623 (1623)	STC 21177; ESTC S116093	13,598	35

sometime in another as it pleased God in his wise dispensation who caries the light of his Gospell as hee doth the Sunne through the world to illuminate nations at seuerall times therewith according to his will E. That is a faire generall but will you tell vs who were these what countrey people what Doctors who taught as yee teach D. Looke the Churches of Asia Africke and of Europe consider them as they were before the mystery of iniquitie ca●e to the height and you shall see that they all had the same doctrine a●d forme of a Church that wee haue in all substantiall points pertaining to Religion E. But you are not able to name one before Luther teaching in all things as he did D. This is a peece of Sophistrie whereby your deceiuers blind the ignorant E How so should not the teachers of the truth agree in all things in one harmonie D. I grant they should and thanks be to God they do also in all substantiall things which are the Articles of our faith The Buckler of Fa●●● published in French by M. Peter du Moulin translated into English twise printed Anno 1624 is a most excellent book for these present times concerning Luther c. let Luther answer it at his best le●sure or Sweet or Anthony 〈◊〉 of any Iesuit or Masse-priest whosoeuer But is this a good reason because some Doctors in some opinions differ whereof men may be ignorant and saued neuerthelesse that therefore these Doctors teach no truth and their Churches are no true Churches E. That seemes to be hard indeed D. You haue reason for you so to think For in one age Victor with the Church in the West was in a different opinion from Policrates and the Churches of the East and Ierome had his owne discordance with Augustine and the first ●athers of the primitiue Church were Chiliasts shall it thereupon follow that because in this point they taught not in all things as wee doe that therefore they were not a Church E. It is no reason D. Cyprian in the point of rebaptizing taught not as Cornelius what of that will it follow that he was not a faithfull Pastor or the Church of Carthage was not a true Church E. It followes not indeed D. VVhy then do you vrge me to giue you one before Luther or Calvin who in all points taught as wee teach The Doctors of the Church both ancient and recent are men subiect to infirmities for no man vpon earth hath his vnderstanding perfect whereof it comes to passe that in some things one of them differs from another but as to the Articles of the faith and substance of Christian religion whereby comes saluation sure it is Tertullian and Cyprian Ambrose Augustine Luther and Calvin haue all deliuered one doctrine and did teach the way of God truly E. Then you thinke the Fathers of the Primitiue Church were of your Religion D. I thinke so indeed and hope to die in the same faith wherein they liued and died E. It would be thought strange to heare that in Italy that the Doctors of the Primitiue Church were of the Protestants Religion D. No marvell though it be strange there where truth is a stranger but this answer was giuen you and them both by a worthy Doctor of our Church The light of Cambridge M. Doctor Whitakers in Camplanum M. Doctor Whitakers and yet we stand to it Patros in maximis sunt nostri in multis narij in minimis vestri Such Fathers saith Doctor Whitakers as haue written before vs and you both in greatest things are ours in many things are doubtfull in smallest things they are yours E. Well I will remember that God willing but in the dayes of Papistrie wherewith you say the world was blinded where was your Church D. Answer me but another question and it shall resolue you E. What is that D. Your Doctors say that when Antichrist shall come the Church shall flie to the Desert that is as themselues expound it The Rhemists vpon Reuel 11. The Church shall be without publike state of regiment and open free exercise of holy functions neither shall it be vnknowne to the faithfull which follow it as this day may be seene the like by the Church of Romane Catholikes in many parts of England E. What doth that helpe you D. Very much That which they themselues say will be done we say is done Antichrist hath already chased the Church to the wildernesse and so oppressed it that for a time it had no publike state of regiment nor open free exercise of holy functions yet was it not vnknowne to the faithfull that followed it nor to the enemies that persecu●ed it as this day may be seene by the Church of Christian Catholikes in many parts of France E. Will ye make that cleare and I thinke you haue wonne much D. VVhat greater clearnesse can you craue If this answer be good to cleare the Popes Church when they say it will be obscured by Antichrist and yet be is it not as good to iustifie our Church when we say it hath been obscured by Antichrist and yet was E. The answer is good enough only if you can I would haue you qualifie it more particularly D. There is not one age since the dayes of Christ vnto this day wherein I cannot point forth men preaching and professing as we doe but because your doubt is specially of the time of Papistrie I will let you see it is a needlesse question for the Popes Church to demand of vs where our Church then was for they found vs alwayes in their teeth before euer Luther or Caluin were borne E. Make that good D. See Reinerus vpon the Apoc. Reinerus a popish Inquisitor who liued more then three hundred yeares ago speaking of the poore men of Lyons and calling them in contempt Valdenses Leonistae saith they were more pernicious to the Church of Rome then all other sects 3. Reasons why the Walden●es much vexed the Rom. Church for three causes First because it hath been of longer continuance for some say this sect hath endured since the Apostles times The second cause is because it is more generall for there is almost no Land in the which this Sect doth not creepe The third cause for that all other Sects doe bring an horror with the hainousnesse of their blasphemies against God but this Sect of Leonists hath a great shew of godlinesse because they liue iustly before men and beleeue all things well concerning God and all the Articles which are contained in the Creed onely they blaspheme and hate the Church of Rome Now there is the testimonie of an enemie making answer for vs which may serue to stop the mouthes of all our enemies from demanding of vs any more Where was your Church before Luther E. 1. but he calls them a Sect and sayes they blasphemed the Church D. So the Priests of the Iewes called the Church of Christians a Sect