Selected quad for the lemma: truth_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
truth_n	age_n	church_n	time_n	2,142	5	3.6322	3	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A76080	Independency not Gods ordinance: or A treatise concerning church-government, occasioned by the distractions of these times. Wherein is evidently proved, that the Presbyterian government dependent is Gods ordinance, and not the Presbyterian government independent. To vvhich is annexed a postscript, discovering the uncharitable dealing of the independents towards their Christian brethren, and the fraud and jugglings of many of their pastors and ministers, to the misleading of the poor people, not only to their own detriment, but the hurt of church and state; with the danger of all novelties in religion. / By John Bastvvick, Dr in Physick.; Independency not Gods ordinance. Part 1	Bastwick, John, 1593-1654.	1645 (1645)	Wing B1063; Thomason E285_2; ESTC R200066	144,017	171

Presbytery in that sense I take it I am so well assured that it is Gods Ordinance as I am of any point of Religion But as I said before if men may argue afthis way The Presbyters in the Apostles times did miracles and spake with strange tongues and their Scholers and Disciples did the same do you likewise and then we will acknowledge you to be true Presbytters otherwise we will not Thus the Jewes might have argued against all their Prophets as against Isaiah Ieremy Ezekiel c. Moses and Elias fasted forty dayes and forty nights and did many miracles do you so and then we will believe you are true Prophets and sent to us of God otherwise we will not believe you to be true Prophets Yea all the wicked and ungodly men of these times may argue thus also God gave unto his Church Apostles Evangelists Prophets c. and they spake all strange tongues and divers languages and did many miracles but you and your Congregations have neither Apostles Prophets nor Evangelists nor ye have not the gifts of Tongues nor ye can do no Miracle Ergò you are not the true Church The Primitive Christians and the servants of God in those times had the gifts of Tongues and Prophesie and the Holy Ghost came down upon them and they spake by direction from God his infallible truth and Gospell whose speeches were not tied to time and to one speaker but many spake one after another by interpreters as it is at large set down in the 1. of the Corinthians chap. 14. vers 27 28 29 30. c. So that they spake infallible truth by direction from God but you have none in your congregations so miraculously inspired with sundry languages and divers tongues nor ye do not speak infallible truths by direction from God nor you cannot cure diseases nor do miracles Ergò your religion is not the same Religion nor your congregations the true Church shew us these miracles and then we will beleeve you to be the true Church otherwise we may not we dare not acknowledge you to be the true Church Again they may argue thus The Apostles and Primitive Pastors and Teachers preached freely and laboured with their own hands and were helpfull to the necessities of others and were not burthensome and exacting from others and spake ex tempore by direction from God but your Ministers in your Congregations do not preach freely nor labour not with their own hands nor are not helpfull to others necessities but are rather burdensome and exacting from others nor they do no miracles nor speak not immediately by inspiration and ex tempore but by Study and out of their Books and are confined to time and speak not in strange tongues and languages one after another by Interpreters Ergò your ministers are not Gods Ministers nor your Congregations the true Church nor your people true Christians for you want all those things that the Primitive Christians and the Primitive Churches had There is a Pamphlet lately come out and highly esteemed and prised amongst many full of such consequences as these which if they hold good against the Presbyters they may also for ought I know be of equall validity to overthrow not onely all Christian Congregations but indeed all Christian Religion But briefly to answer We look upon the Apostles and Primitive Presbyters as men miraculously and extraordinarily gifted and as wonder-working men for the confirmation of the truth of the Gospell to all succeeding ages and we consider in them and in the Christians of those times something extraordinary and temporary as their working of miracles and speaking of strange tongues and gifts of healing c. And those we conceive were to continue no longer in the Church then for the confirmation of the truth of the Gospel Christ himself proclaiming those blessed that believe without seeing of miracles speaking unto Thomas Iohn 20.29 Because thou hast seen me saith he thou believest blessed are they that have not seen and have believed So that miracles now are not ordinary and we are tied to the written Word But we consider likewise in the Apostles and Primitive Presbyters that that was permanent and to continue in all Ministers and Presbyters in all succeeding ages to the end of the world and that was the power of order and preaching and the power of jurisdiction that is of ruling which is not denied by the most learned of the Independents themselves and this I have proved by the Word of God to be transacted over to all Christian Churches whose Presbyters have that power given unto them neither will the Learned Brethren deny it what so ever the ignorant may do Yea the very name of a Presbytery as I said before if we look through the whole Scripture signifieth a Magistracy or Signiory or Corporation invested with authority of governing and ruling and such a counsell and company of men as upon whom the government under Christ is laid and to be extended so far as their jurisdiction extendeth and as far as by common consent it may make for the good and edification of the Church and for the safety of the same And such was the government of all those Churches of the New Testament which were as so many Committees their limits and bounds prefixed them as at this day all Committees through the Kingdome have in their severall Hundreds Wapentakes and Cities to whom the ordering and government of those places that are under them are committed so that all that is done or transacted must be done by the joynt consent and counsell of the whole Committee not any particular man or any two of them severally considered by themselvs can make an order but that order only is binding which is made by the joynt consent and common agreement of them all or the greatest part of them assembled together Even so all those particular Congregations that are within the compasse and jurisdiction of the severall Presbyteries are to be ordered and governed by the common and joynt counsell of the severall Presbyters or the greater part of them For this was the order the Apostles established appointing in every City a Presbyterie and when they had so ordered the Churches they set them all to their severall imployments the Presbyters to command and all the people and particular assemblies and congregations under them to obey neither is it ever found in the holy Scriptures that the people were joyned with the Presbyters in their commission So that they that oppose this government resist Gods Ordinance And if we looke into all the Epistles writ by the Apostles to the severall Churches we shall finde in them that they enjoyne all the severall congregations to yeild obedience to their Pastors and Rulers over them and signifie unto them that they owe unto them double honour especially such as labour in Word and Doctrine that is they must yeild unto them not only due reverence and subjection and obedience to their counsell and just

remissions of sins and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost c. Then they that gladly received his word were baptized and the same day were added unto them about three thousand souls And they continued stedfast in the Apostles Doctrine and fellowship and in breaking of bread and prayer And feare came upon every soule and many signes and wonders were done by the Apostles and all that believed were together and had all things common and they continuing daily with one accord in the Temple and breaking bread from house to house did eat their meat with gladnesse and singlenesse of heart praysing God and having favour with all the people And the Lord added to the Church daily such as should he saved Here we see that by vertue of one Miracle and Sermon God working with them were added to the Believers that Saint Iohn the Baptist and Christ and his Disciples had converted and such as were formerly baptized three thousand more a great Miracle all which with the many other that were converted afterward are called but one Church For it is expresly said that the Lord added to the Church daily such as should be saved We heard of the great multitudes and of a world of such as believed in Christ before this Miracle and Sermon And can any man in reason conceive that all these could meet in any one place or congregation to partake in all acts of worship But let us go on In the 3 and 4 Chapter by means of that Miracle that was wrought upon the Impotent Man who was known to all the people to have bin a Cripple from his Mothers wombe and through the powerfull preaching of Peter who exhorted them to repent and to be converted that their sinnes might be blotted out when the time of refreshing should come from the presence of the Lord c. It is said that many which heard the Word believed and the number of those new Believers is there specified to be about five thousand men which were also added unto the Church and joyned to all the former Believers so that we have here eight thousand new Members added unto the Church in a very little time and this was a greater Miracle then the former So that the Prophesie in the 110 Psalme vers 3. was not fulfilled That in the day of Christs power his willing people from the wombe of the morning should be multiplyed as the Dew upon the Earth And which is not to be passed by without due notice It is supposed by the best Interpreters and the most orthodox Writers and there is good reason for it that these new Converts were Men not Women and Children And without doubt these new Believers endeavoured to convert their Wives Children Servants and Neighbours and there is good reason also why we should be induced to believe that Truth with such wonders and miracles annexed to it should be as prevalent to convert Women Children Servants and Neighbours and whole Families as errors and novelties in these our dayes are able to mis-leade those poore creatures that are ever learning and never come to knowledge and the which are carried about with every winde of doctrine and believe every new-born truth as they tearm it and follow every New Light and every new-found way though it tend to the confusion of the Church and Kingdome It is said of that man of Sinne that Sonne of Perdition that he shall come after the working of Satan with all power and signes and lying wonders and with all deceiveablenesse and unrighteousnesse in them that perish because they received not the love of the truth that they might be saved 2 Thess 2. But to see people so deluded without Miracles is a Miracle So that those poor Women that are carried about with every winde of doctrine from that truth that was taught by Christ and his Apostles and confirmed by so many Miracles and those that do and have mis-led them have all of them a great deal to answer for But this I speak by the way conceiving that all those new Converts would endeavour as the good Samaritan Woman did after conversion not only to bring their Wives Children and Families but their Neighbours also and whole Cities to the same faith And I have that opinion also of all the Women and people of that Age that they were as ready to imbrace the truth as the Women and people of this Age and in these our times are to follow errors But let us now see what effects the other Miracles wrought upon the people that are related in the fifth Chapter as of Ananias and Saphira his wife who for tempting the Spirit of God were both stricken down dead and gave up the ghost and the other Miracles wrought by the Apostles It is said in Vers 11. That fear came upon all the Church and to as many that heard these things and that to the rest viz. the Scribes and Pharisees the Malignant party durst no man joyne himselfe And Believers were added unto the Lord multitudes both men and women Here come in the good Women now And in Vers 26. it it is said that the Captaine with the Officers brought the Apostles without violence for they feared the people least they should have stoned them It will not be amisse briefly to take notice of the severall effects these Miracles wrought The first is that great fear of offending God came on all the Church Gods own people which notwithstanding of the many additions of Believers is called still but one Church The second that none durst joyne themselves to the contrary party the Pharisaicall malignant crew The third that Believers were added to the Church and that multitudes no small companies both of Men and Women Here is a new increase and that a great one The fourth is that the very Captain and Officers were awed and kept in fear by reason of the multitude of Believers so that those that feared not God were afraid of his servants By which it may be gathered that the party of Believers did ballance the number of the incredulous and Pharisaicall party if not by far exceed them And therefore by all probability must needs be an innumerable company and a mighty multitude and such a number as could not all meet in any one place or congregation to partake in all the Ordinances And to say nothing of the diversity of Tongues and Languages which were not given to the Apostles to be uselesse and of no profit nor to speak any thing of the divers Jewes that were then dwelling at Jerusalem devout Men and Women out of every Nation under Heaven which notwithstanding may be a sufficient argument to prove that they all had their severall meeting places and their severall Ministers to preach unto them in their severall Languages that they might be edified I say for the present to wave all this let us take notice what is positively set down in the last Verse of the fifth Chapter

ceremoniall law with the Gospell cals it a perverting of the Gospell of Christ wishes that such teachers were cut off Gal. 5. v. 12. and blames likewise those Galatians that received their doctrine saying Oh foolish Galatians who hath bewitched you that you should not obey the truth and yet they onely urged the ceremoniall law which God by Moses had appointed to remaine till the fulnesse of time but was now abrogated they were not their owne traditions they were no new borne lights no new wayes no new truths Now if Paul was so displeased or God rather with the Galatians both teachers and hearers the one for bringing in or joyning the ceremoniall law to the Gospell and the other for admitting of them how highly would God have been displeased with them if they had set up their owne inventions for the lawes of God and had brought in new borne truths and intruded them upon the people as necessary to salvation and for the setting up of Christ upon his Throne Without doubt the Apostle would most sharply have reproved them and have given speciall caveats against them as he did in his Epistle to the Colossians the second chapter of the which being chiefly spent in condemning all humane traditions yea in his first chapter of his Epistle to the Galatians ver 8 9. He chargeth them that though the Apostles themselves or an Angel from Heaven should preach unto them otherwise than that they had received they should count him accursed and as I said before saith the Apostle so say I now againe if any man preach unto you otherwise than that you have received let him be accursed But none of the Apostles ever taught the Church that christians and beleevers though baptized should not be admitted as members into the church unlesse they had walked some time in church-fellowship with them and had first made a publike confession of their faith and had brought in the evidences of the truth of their conversion and entred into a solemne private covenant and were admitted by the consent of the church none of all this did ever the Apostles teach or the christians of those times embrace or beleeve and therefore such doctrines as these ought not to be received In the first of the Corinthians in many places he reproves those that made scismes and brought in heresies and sects into the church and in the fourth chapter and sixt verse under his owne and Apollo's name he sets an example before them that they should containe themselves with in the limits and bounds of that doctrine and manner of preaching prescribed and set downe in the Word of God and used by the Spirit of God and commands them that they should learne in the Apostles not to presume or to be wise above that which is written and enjoynes all christians to reject all wayes of teaching that have not Gods Word for their warrant Now in all Gods Word there is nothing of all this written that after men beleeve and are baptized they should not yet be admitted into the church without they had walked sometime with them for their approbation and without they had made a publike confession of their faith before the congregation and brought in the evidences of their true conversion and had entred into a private covenant and were admitted by the consent of the church none of all this is written in Gods Word and therefore we ought not to embrace it And in the second of the Corinths chap. 11. ver 4. the Apostle signifieth unto the Corinthians that no man can teach the Gospel more exactly tahn he and the other Apostles have taught them nor set before them a more perfect doctrine of Jesus Christ than that that they have taught them for the converting of any unto Christ and for the setting up of Christ as King upon his Throne and for the making of them members of the church and for the building of them up in their most holy faith and commands the Corinthians to take heed of all false teachers whatsoever piety and godlinesse they make shew of calling them deceitfull workers such as transforme themselves into the Apostles of Christ And no mervaile saith he for Satan himselfe can transforme himselfe into an Angel of light and therefore it is no wonder his ministers transforme themselves as though they were the ministers of righteousnesse Now if men will consider what those false teachers were we shall find them to be no other but such as under shew of holinesse and piety taught their owne inventions and grolleryes and abused the simplicity of the people for their owne advantage and brought them into bondage and devoured them verse 20. as the Pharises did the Widowes houses under pretence of their long prayers which our Saviour Christ sharply reproves them for and denounces a woe against them for their so doing after the same manner did these fals teachers amongst the Corinthians who made their owne traditions joyned members with the Gospel as if they had had a more fine neat and eliganter way of gathering of Churches and admitting of members than Paul and the other Apostles But the Apostle bids the Corinthians take heed of all such how glorious soever they seem to appeare and tels them they cannot teach the way to Heaven and happinesse better than he and the other Apostles have done and yet neither Saint Paul or any of the Apostles in preaching of the Gospel taught them that they should admit of none to be joyned members of the Church although they beleeved and were baptized except they walked some time in fellowship amongst them that they might have approbation and tryall of their conversation first and after make a publike confession of their faith before the church and did give in evidences of the truth of their conversion to the congregation and entred into a solemne private covenant and were admitted members by consent of the church Not a word of all this in the Gospel that Saint Paul and the other Apostles taught and therefore all that teach their new wayes their new-borne truths and set up their new lights are wise above that which is written and teach otherwise than Christ and his Apostles have taught or the christians of the primitive times had received and therefore ought by the Apostles command Gal. 1. ver 8 9. to be accursed Saint John also in his second Epistle to the Elect Lady ver 9 10. saith Who soever transgresseth and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ hath not God he that continueth in the doctrine of Christ he hath both the Father and the Son If there come any unto you that bringeth not the doctrine of Christ receive him not into your house neither bid him God speed for he that biddeth him God speed is a partaker of his evill deeds Now the doctrine that the Independent Ministers teach for the gathering of Churches and admitting of members and joyning and jumbling of them together was never taught

were to submit themselves And therefore this their Argument maketh much against them and greatly for us And this shall suffice to have answered to this their first Objection which to speak the truth is that that carrieth the most appearance of any Argument they produce to prove their Assertion and tenent for all their other Objections raised from the severall meetings of the Apostles and people and from the multitude comming to them about the ordaining of Deacons by which they would perswade the world that the company of Believers in the Church of Jerusalem was not so numerous at any time but that they might all meet in one congregation or in one place to partake of in acts of worship they consist most of them in Homonymies and meer Paralogismes which indeed beseem not the gravity of reverend men and in the weighty matters of Divinity would be undecent in a sucking Sophister and therefore are much more blameworthy in them who by such fallacies labour to amuse the people to the disturbance of the whole Church and Kingdome and alienating the affections of Brethren one from another I shall briefly run over them Acts 2.46 where it is related that the Believers and new Converts continued daily with one accord in the Temple and breaking bread from house to house From these words the Brethren conclude that the multitude of Believers was not so great but that they might all meet in one congregation and in one place to partake in all acts of worship for here in expresse words the place where they met is specified and it is said to be the Temple I appeale to the wisdome of any learned man or but of a rationall Christian whether this be a candid or ingenuous way of arguing That because three thousand Christians might meet together in the Temple of Jerusalem Ergò all that believed in Jerusalem that were converted by Iohn the Baptist and all that believed by Christs ministery and miracles and all that were converted by the Apostles and the seventy Disciples before Christs sufferings and all that were after his Resurrection converted for twenty years together by the Ministry of all the Apostles and all the other Ministers of the Gospell they might yet all meet in any one place or Congregation to partake in all acts of worship and to edification I refer this I say to the consideration of any Learned man or any intelligible Christian whether this be an ingenuous way of arguing I believe if one should argue against them after the same manner they would laugh at him If one should thus dispute within these seven years all the Independents continued daily with one accord in such a place and they all met together in one congregation Ergò there is but one congregation and but one Church still of Independents in London and they all meet together in one congregation Would not the Brethren make themselves as merry with such a way of disputing as they have made others sad with their way of arguing yes doubtlesse The truth is their way of arguing is not to their own honour to speak but favourably of it as will appear For should I grant unto them that at that time this place of Scripture speaks of there had been no more Believers in Jerusalem but those hundred and twenty names specified in the first Chapter of the Acts and these three thousand new Coaverts and accord also unto them that all these did meet together in one place and in one congregation and did partake in all the Ordinances which notwithstanding I cannot grant them for divers reasons for in the same place it is said that although they continued daily in the Temple yet they brake bread from house to house that is to say some of them did daily meet to hear the Word in the Temple and then followed their severall imployments and others in private and they had the holy Communion or Sacrament in severall houses from which it is manifeltly evident that then when there were newly added to the Church but three thousand Believers they had many and severall congregations and assemblies and without all doubt as the multitudes of Believers increased they were still distributed into more congregations for it is said They brake bread from house to house that is they had their assemblies and meetings in severall houses and places besides the Temple and in those severall houses they had not only the preaching of the Word and Prayer but the administration of the Sacraments and communicated in all the Ordinances which they could not do in the Temple as afterward will appear and all that I now say is evident from the 41 Verse of the same Chapter to the 47. But I say should I silence my own reason and suffer it to speak nothing and should I grant to our Brethren that there were but three thousand and that these three thousand Believers might all meet in one congregation and partake in all the ordinances to edification would it follow that when ten thousand were added unto them and twenty thousand more to them and thirty thousand more to all these and it may be in a short time many hundred thousands more would any man think or believe that ten thousand men can meet in one congregation to edifie and to partake in all the Ordinances much lesse when there is so many thousands more added to them that they could still meet in any one place or congregation I think no man that hath not abdicated his understanding will so conclude So that all men may see not only the weaknesse of this argumentation but the strength of truth For this very weapon with which they had thought to have defended themselves and wounded the Truth they wound themselves and overthrow their own tenent as God willing I shall more fully by and by make appear But out of Chap. 5. our Brethren conceive they have a very strong invincible Argument where it is related that after Ananias and Saphira were miraculously taken away for lying unto the Spirit of God It is said That great fear came upon all the Church and upon as many as heard these things And by the hands of the Apostles were many signes and wonders wrought among the people and they were all with one accord in Solomons Porch Ergò say they the number of Believers in Jerusalem was not so great but that they might all meet together in one congregation for the place where they did meet is set down viz. in Solomons Porch and it is further specified That they were all with one accord in that place This is their Argument faithfully and truly set down and with the best advantage for their cause But to speak the truth this kinde of arguing hath no force in it neither doth it beseem grave men to trifle thus in the matters of God and Religion For should I grant unto them that all the Believers that then were in Jerusalem and had been converted by John