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truth_n	age_n	church_n	time_n	2,142	5	3.6322	3	false

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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A70371	The present separation self-condemned and proved to be schism as it is exemplified in a sermon preached upon that subject / by Mr. W. Jenkyn ; and is further attested by divers others of his own persuasion all produced in answer to a letter from a friend.	Jane, William, 1645-1707.; Jenkyn, William, 1613-1685.; S. R. To his worthy friend H. N.; Brinsley, John, fl. 1581-1624.; H. N.	1678 (1678)	Wing J454; ESTC R18614	63,527	154

Firmin is so pestered with that he answers it after this sort in his Separation examined pag. 28 29. But this Objection hath no place in these Churches for Prayer Preaching Administration of the Sacraments yea Discipline they had in the Episcopal days c. As if that were sufficient to vindicate what they wanted in theirs The Case then was plainly thus That they were some Years without any setled Constitution That though the Province of London was by an Ordinance 1645. divided into Twelve Classical Elderships yet after all the Ordinances about it the very Form of Government was not ordered to be published till 29 Aug. 1648. nay nor the Articles of Religion agreed to be printed till about a Month before And yet notwithstanding then the Cry was Independency a great Schism and worse than Popery as Adam Steuart in his Zerubbabel to Sanballat p. 53. and Separation from them Schismatical Now if it must be so when no body knew what the Church was nor they themselves knew what Foundation to lay it upon if J. Goodwin in his Sion College visited pag. 10. or J. L. in his Plain Truth pag. 6. are to be believed and as Mr. Brinsley pag. 49. doth not deny then what must it not be when it is from a Church that is established and whose Articles Constitutions and Orders are and have been time out of mind setled as ours is If in 1647. there was a Church and a Church of England as the Ministers sent by the Parliament in that Year to Oxford did maintain and as the Form of Church-Government to be used in the Church of England printed by Order of Parliament 1648. doth acknowledge then certainly such a thing there is now to be found To conclude this If the old Nonconformists thought the Church of England to be a true Church and what they did think themselves obliged to hold Communion with If the present Nonconformists when time was did declare as much If the Church of England doth not now differ from what it was when they so thought of it and that it is much more a Church than what that was that the Independents were accounted by them Schismaticks for withdrawing from Then I hope their Separation from us will be allowed to be unwarrantable And now I know not what can be said unless with the Author of Sacrilegious Desertion pag. 33. it be said that this is onely local distinction not separation But that is the second thing I shall proceed to shew 2. There is a Separation from the Church of England If there was no more to be said in this Case than what Adam Steuart in his Zerubbabel to Sanballat wrote against the Independents 1644. it would be sufficient viz. If ye be not separated from us but entertain Union and Communion with us what need ye more a Toleration rather than the rest of the Members of our Church The pains the Nonconformists took to compass and the joy which they expressed at obtaining a Toleration shews that they were not of its Communion But what credit can we give to such a Declaration For alas as Mr. Brinsley pag. 28. saith in the same case what meaneth the lowing of the Oxen and the bleating of the Sheep I mean the confused noise of our lesser and greater Divisions Divisions not onely without Separations Sects and Factions but Divisions of an higher nature amounting to no less than direct Separation and that not barely to a negative but to a positive Separation to the setting up of Altars against Altars Churches against Churches That it is so de facto I think it will not it cannot be denied For if Mr. Baxter and some others shall profess That they meet not at the same hour with the Publick under any colour and pretence in any Religious Exercise than according to the Liturgie and yet in the mean time use it not the Dividers will not see as the Author of Sacrilegious Desertion saith pag 20. the different Principles on which they go while their Practice seemeth to be the same But if we should grant this to those that are willing to hold Communion with us yet these are very few to what do wholly decline and deny it Mr. Jenkin here saith pag. 22. That Separation appears in the withdrawing from the performance of those Duties which are both the Signs of and Helps to Christian Vnity as Prayer Hearing Receiving of Sacraments c. And that Schism is negative when there is onely a simple secession c. without making head against that Church from which the departure is or positive when Persons so withdrawing do so consociate and draw themselves into a distinct and opposite Body setting up a Church against a Church Now I dare appeal to all that know them whether Mr. Jenkin and the far greater part of his Brethren have been ever seen in our Congregations unless at some times the more adventurous of them have thrust their Heads in at the Door when if they heard all as it is usually but very little of the Sermon that they have patience to hear Mr. Brinsley will tell them That as for Occasional hearing it is agreed on all hands it is not properly an act of Church-Communion pag. 35. And I will appeal to your Eyes whether they do not constantly keep up their Meetings in opposition to those of the Church But what need I go so far about when this is not onely acknowledged but defended See Mr. Wadsworth in his Separation yet no Schism Epist to the Reader where he puts the Case of the Nonconformists thus There are some hundreds of true Ministers of Jesus Christ and there are many thousands likewise of visible Professors of Christianity do willingly hear and joyn with these Ministers in the Worship of God and in a participation of Sacraments These meet in distinct Congregations separate from the legallyestablished Congregations in the Land with whom they will not because they cannot hold Communion And now it is out and what you see is plainly avowed So that I have leave to pass to the next Head 3. That this Separation is voluntary and unnecessary The sin of Schism will all say is very great and what cannot be blotted out with the blood of Martyrdom as Mr. Jenkin here saith pag. 26. one spoke very well But as he observes from Musculus pag. 31. There is a double Schism the one bad the other good the bad is that whereby a good Vnion the good whereby a bad Vnion is broken asunder And of what sort the present Separation is comes now to be tried which I shall do by making my Observations from what this Sermon will afford and by shewing from thence when a Separation is justifiable and when not From all which if it appears that the Reasons produced by them fall within the compass of the Negative but hold not as to the Affirmative it will appear That their Separation is voluntary and unnecessary Now there are Six Cases as may be collected

they might otherwise help themselves and that they had Means sufficient without it as the Scriptures mutual Edification and Conference Prayer and Meditation c. and that though never so few or weak Christ was amongst them And if this would be sufficient when wholly destitute of a Ministry I am apt to think it would do as well with one though not altogether so well qualified as might be desired I shall conclude this with what the same Author saith pag. 28. When God hath vouchsafed a sufficiency of Means and those unquestionably lawful though not of so rank flesh or so highly promising as some others for the attaining of any good and desirable End a declining and forsaking of those Means whether out of a diffidence of the sufficiency of them for the End desired or upon any other reason whatsoever to espouse others pretending to more strength and efficacy hath been still displeasing unto God and of sad consequence to those that have been no better advised than to make trial of them But is it really thus that there is any such difference betwixt the Abilities of their and our Teachers and that the obtaining apparent Advantages to their Salvation in that respect above what they could have had with us is what they separate for So they would have it thought as you may see in the Call to Archippus printed 1664. pag. 20 21. There is indeed a Ministry and Preaching such as it is but whether snch as is likely to answer the Ends of it judge ye Are those like to convert Souls that have neither will nor skill to deal with them about their Conversion So again When there is no better help than an idle ignorant loose-living Ministry under which God knows we speak it with grief of heart too many not to say the most of those that are of late come in may be reckoned or than the cold and heartless way that is generally in use the Coal of Religion doth ever go out An high and daring Charge which he will be concerned to make good or to suffer under the imputation of a foul Defamer Have they neither will nor skill to convert Souls From whence then proceed those most excellent and laborious Sermons that the Wisest of the Nation do so extol the present Generation for Whence was it that when we were bewildred with Phrases and Religion made hard and unintelligible and Cases intricate and perplexed that the things of it were made easie and to lie near to Mens Understandings and that the part of Casuistical Divinity is not near so cumbersom as it was in the days of some Men Are they idle and ignorant From whence then is it that their Adversaries of all sorts are so well opposed not to say confuted that they are made to quit their ground and to betake themselves to new Principles in their own defence to fall from the Infallibility of the Person to that of Tradition as they do abroad from old Nonconformity to Brownism and from Presbyterianism to Independency as some do at home In what Age and Church have the great Truths and Principles of our Religion been more effectually considered more diligently searched into more clearly stated and explained or more successfully defended than in ours and which I may challenge the whole Party of the Separation to shew any thing equal to From whence comes all this to pass if our Church did so abound with uncatechised Vpstarts poor Shrubs and empty and unaccomplished Predicants as Mr. Jenkin with an holy indignation doth in his Exodus p. 55. complain Surely if these Men had but duly weighed things and had been conversant in the Writings of our Church or looked amongst themselves they would not have dared thus to reproch the most Learned and Industrious Ministry that perhaps England ever yet had Let me recommend to such what Mr. Baxter saith in the like case in his Explication of Passages in the Profession of the Worcestershire Association printed 1653. pag. 110. I desire those Brethren that object this but to search their hearts and ways and remember what may be said against themselves and cast the beam first out of their own eye at least to censure as humble men that are sensible of their own miscarriages and imperfections And if they did according to this advice I am perswaded that they would think there were as good and useful Men in the World as themselves Do we not find some of themselves forced to acknowledge as much Consult Sacrilegious Desertion pag. 86. I really fear lest meer Nonconformity hath brought some into reputation as consciencious who by weak Preaching will lose the reputation of being judicious more than their silence lost it And a little after speaking of their own Ministers he saith Verily the injudiciousness of too many among you is for a lamentation And pag. 88. he adds Through Gods mercy some Conformists preach better than many of you can do Truly when I consider what a Stock of worthy and accomplished Persons in that Quality whether for Sobriety and Learning our Church is at present furnished with though it must be confessed there are that are defective in both as when were they not I look upon Men of this quarrelsom temper to be such as are described in Sacrilegious Desertion pag. 91. That having set themselves in a dividing way secretly do rejoyce at the disparagement of Conformists and draw as many from them as they can and that therefore deserve the Character he there gives That they are but destroyers of the Church of God Such that to strengthen themselves and carry on their own Interest care not what they do or say but how worthily let the Author of the Antidote to Mr. Baxter's Cure judge who saith pag. 20. That to reproch a whole Party for the miscarriages of some few without taking notice how many faults are in those whom they would defend is the usual artifice of such that think themselves concerned upon any wretched terms whatsoever to maintain an ill Cause and have prostituted their Consciences to defend an Argnment I will leave such to consider what Mr. Watson saith in his Sermon of God's Anatomy upon the Heart pag. 167. which is so severe that I care not to transcribe But to proceed As little reason is there to separate from a Church for remisness of Discipline This the Author of Separation yet no Schism saith that he seeth no sin in pag. 67. for the Reason given before and to which my abovesaid Answer and what I have also said pag. 66. will be sufficient I shall onely add That care is taken by our Church and Constitution as I have already shewed for the due Administration of Discipline And if it be objected That it fails in the exercise and application of it I will answer with Mr. Jenkin here pag. 33. Let them consider whether the want of purging and reforming of Abuses proceed not rather from some unhappy and political restrictions in the exercise