Selected quad for the lemma: truth_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
truth_n	age_n	church_n	time_n	2,142	5	3.6322	3	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A56079	A Protestant antidote against Popery with a brief discourse of the great atheisticalness and vain amours now in fashion. Written in a letter to a young lady. By a Person of Honour.	Person of honour.	1673 (1673)	Wing P3820; ESTC R220564	36,838	182

no Church before him therefore it can be no true Church at all To which we answer that this cause is no cause For though Luther had no being before Luther yet none can deny but that he was when he was though he could not be before he was So there may be a true Church after Luther though there was none for some ages before him as since Columbus his time there have been Christians in America though there were none for many Ages before for it does not follow that nothing but a Church can possibly get a Church nor that the present being of a true Church depends necessarily upon the perpetuity of a Church in all Ages for though I cannot deny the Churches perpetuity yet that 's not here necessary to our difference but that a false Church by Gods providence over ruling it may preserve a means of confuting their own Heresies and so reduce men to truth and raise a true Church I mean the integrity of the word of God with men Thus the Jewes preserve means to make men Christians and Papists preserve means to make men Protestants and the Protestants false Church as the Romans call it preserves men Papists nor does it appear that the perpetuity of the Church is the truth of the Papists Church for they speak as if they were the onely Christians in the World before Luther when the whole World knowes that this is but talk and that there were other Christians besides the Papists that might have perpetuated the Church though there had not been then one Papist in being for sure there was a Catholick Church before the Roman one Next the Papist say to hold that the visible Church is not perpetual is a Heresie so that Luthers Reformation being but particular and not universal nor but of late date it can have nothing to do with the visible and perpetual Church which the Protestants answer thus To say the visible Church is not perpetual is properly a Heresie but the Papists cannot deny but that the Apostles who preach'd the Gospel in the beginning did believe the Church universal though their preaching at the beginning was not so So Luther also might well believe the universal Church though his Reformation was but particular the Church in the Apostles time being universal de jure of right but not de facto in fact Nor did Luther and his followers as the Papist are pleased to mis-cal many Protestants forsake the whole Church but the corruptions of it in renouncing some of their corrupt practices and this the Protestants say they did without Schism because they had cause to do it and no man can have cause to be a Schismatick because he is onely one who leaves the Church without a cause for 't is not onely seperation but a causeless seperation from the Church that is Schismatical and I think t' will not be amiss before I go any farther to distinguish the difference between Heresie and Schism Heresie is anobstinate defence of any error against any necessary Article of the Christian Faith Schism is a causeless separation of one part of the Church from another Now we Protestants say still that we never forsook the whole Church or the external Communion of it but onely that part of it which is corrupted and is to be fear'd will still continue so viz. The Papist Church and forsook not but onely reformed an other part which part they themselves were and sure the Papists will not say the Protestants forsook themselves nor their own Communion and therefore the Papists argument must be a very weak in urging that the Protestants joyned themselves to no other part of the Church therefore they must separate from the whole Church which the Protestants say is a false conclusion in as much as they themselves were part of it and still continue so and therefore the Protestants could no more separate from the whole then from themselves So that by the Rule of Reason if Protestants be Schismaticks because they differ from one part of the visible Church by the same reason the Protestants may say that the Roman Church is in a manner made up of Schismaticks for the Jesuits are Schismaticks from the Dominicans and the Dominicans from the Jesuits and the Jesuits from the Canonists the Fransciscans from the Dominicans and the Dominicans from the Fransciscans for all these as the World knowes differ in point of Doctrine and betwixt them there is an irreconcileable contradiction and therefore one part must be in error And if the Papists will but stand to justifie what they declare as truth that every error against a revealed truth is a Heresie they holding for certain as a revealed truth the immaculate conception of the Virgin Mary then consequently the Dominicans that hold and declare it an error in Doctrine must necessarily hold a Heresie Now it may be a fault to be in error because it many times proceeds from a fault but sure Protestants forsaking error it cannot be a sin unless to be in error be a vertue so hardly do Papists deal with us Protestants as they will either damn us in making us follow their false opinions or else brand us as Schismaticks for leaving them And yet the rational sort of Papists can hardly deny but the Protestant Religion must be a safer Religion than theirs in worshipping Pictures in Invocating Saints and Angels in denying the Lay-men the Communion in both kinds as was commanded by our blessed Saviour in celebrating their Church Service in an unknown Tongue which was condemned by St. Paul in adoring the Sacrament and in all these a rational Papist cannot deny but he is on the more dangerous side as to the committing of sin and the Protestant in the more secure way as to the avoiding it For in all these things if Protestants say true the Papists do that which is impious but on the other side if the Papists were in the right yet the Protestants might be secure enough too for their fault would be onely this that they should onely not do some things which the Papists themselves confess is not altogether necessary to be done And truly the Protestants are so charitably civil as only to say of Papists as St. Austine did of the Donatists That Catholicks approved the Doctrine of the Donatists but abhorred their Heresie of Rebaptization So Protestants approve the Fundamental and necessary Truths which the Papists retain by which many good souls among them may be saved but abhor the many superstitions they use in their Religion And supposing these errours of the Popish Church were in themselves not damnable to them that believe as they profess yet for us Protestants to profess what we do not believe and esteem those as Divine Truths which we believe not to be either Divine or true would be doubtless damnable as to us for 't is certain Two men may do the same thing and it may be sinful to one and not to the other as suppose a

as bad as none at all and yet after all this is it possible for a Philosophical or contemplative man nay for any man that has reason or common sense after all these suppositions to believe that none among these holy Writers of the New Testament should remember ad rei memoriam To set down plainly this most necessary Doctrine not so much as once that we were to believe the Roman Church infallible Again that none of the Evangelists should so much as once name this Popish necessary point of Faith if they had esteem'd it necessary for us to believe it when St. Paul says He kept not back any thing that was profitable for us and sure the Papists cannot deny but what is necessary to salvation must be very profitable And St Luke also plainly tells Christians his intent was to write all things necessary And sure it stands also with reason that when St. Paul wrote to the Remans he would have congratulated this their extraordinary priviledge if he had believ'd it belong'd to them And though the Romans bring it as a great Argument for them that St. Paul tells them Their Faith is spoken all the world over Yet pray let them moderate those thoughts with this consideration that St. Paul said the very same thing to the Thessalonians and let them further consider this that if the Roman Faith had been the Rule of Faith for all the world for ever as the Papists hold sure St. Paul would have forborne to put the Romans in fear of an impossibility for though raillery is much in Fashion now sure 't was not then that they also nay the whole Church of the Gentiles if they did not lock to their standing might fall into infidelity as the Jews had done 1 Eph. 11. And methinks it also stands with great reason that the Apostles writing so often of Hereticks and Antichrist should have given the Christian world this as Papists pretend onely sure Preservative from them to be guided by the infallible Church of Rome and not to separate from it upon the pain of damnation Methinks also St. Peter St. James and St. Jude in their Catholick Epistles would not have forgot giving Christians this Catholick direction of following the Roman Church and St. John in stead of saying He that believes that Jesus is the Christ and born of God might have said He that adheres to the Doctrine of the Roman Church and lives according to it is a good Christian and by this mark you shall know him In a word can there be any thing more irrational than to believe that none of these holy men who were so desirous of mens salvation should so much as once remember to write that we were to obey the Roman Church but leave it to be collected from uncertain principles and by more uncertain consequences So that upon the whole I cannot without much wonder look on the Pope's confidence and the Papists credulity in esteeming the Pope or his Councils to be an infallible Guide sure either they never read what they ought to believe or else they will not believe what they read though it be never so known a Truth and worthy of belief for if they did they could never believe the infallibility of the Popish Church for indeed if they would read the Popish story or as I may well call it the Civil Wars of the Popes you shall find as I said before Pope against Pope Councils against Councils some Fathers against others nay some against themselves new Traditions brought in and old ones turn'd out one Church against another nay the Church of one Age against the Church of another In a word the Papists say their Church is infallible and all other Christians besides themselves though more in number than they absolutely deny it and yet we must for all that believe the Popish Church infallible And to speak the plain Truth and in a word to unravel the real cause of the Grandeur of the Church of Rome above all other Churches is onely this Rome was the Imperial Town of the Empire and its Greatness was given by men and not God and when afterwards Constantinople was the Imperial City they Decreed that the Church of Constantinople should have equal Priviledges and Dignities with that of Rome And now to end this Discourse I desire you will please to consider this Conclusion which is that after all that the Papists have said be it never so much and mighty to shew the infallibility of their Church I am verily perswaded they cannot shew more if so much out of the Scriptures for their Church as the simallest society of Christians met together in prayer can for themselves that when two or three are met together in my name I will be amongst then sayes the Lord. And now I have just done this small discourse and the Sun is just upon finishing this dayes visit I can very readily follow that holy advice of not letting it go down in my anger which I thank God I have to none living and therefore am in so much Charity with the Papists as to wish that neither they nor Protestants might wast their pretious time in meer speculative controversies about words and ceremonies which of themselves will never carry us to Heaven but that we may spend our time like wise Christians in the wayes and fear of God which is the onely beginning of wisedom and not consume it in studying and maintaining of Disputes and factions but if we must still differ let Protestants and Papists differ in opinions but as Aristotle and Cicero did who though they were of differing Judgments touching the natures of Souls yet both of them agreed in the main that all men had Souls and souls of the same nature And as Phisitians though they dispute whether the Brain or the Heart be the principle part of man yet that all men have Brains and Heart they sufficiently agree in So though Protestants esteem one part of the Church doctrine and Papists set a higher value on another part yet the Soul of the Church may be in both of them and though the Papists account that a necessary truth which the Protestants account neither necessary nor perhaps true yet in truth truly necessary they both agree viz. The Apostles Creed and that Faith Hope and Charity are necessary to Salvation And lastly though Papists hold they may be justified by their works and Protestants hold none can be justified barely by them in regard of the imperfections of their works yet on the other side we so much agree with the Papists as to esteem none can be justified without them for without Repentance and Charity none can be good they being both like Health to our bodies the want of which is sufficient to disturb all other pleasures Therefore when we read St. Pauls Treatise of justification by Faith without the works of the Law Let us at the same time read what he writes to the Corinthians concerning the absolute necessity of that Excellent vertue of Charity and they will reconcile one another and I wish that we were all so reconciled in the unity of the Spirit and in the bond of peace And that you Madam may be the sooner reconcil'd to me for this tediousness I shall now make a conclusion which after such an overgrown letter must needs be the best complement that can be made by Madam yours c. London the 24. of Feb. 1673