and Knew the voice of their Church and therefore according to the Doctors own assertion needed it not But perhaps the Doctor will say that for the Verbal Translation of the Scripture the Protestants are not necessitated to have recourse to particular Men the Bible being Translated to their hands and warranted by public Authority tho' here too they will be at a loss unless it appear to them that they may confide in this Authority but for the Sense in all dubious places they ought to Address themselves to their Ministers They may do it if they please And if not I suppose they may let it alone and this last with most safety For according to our late Divines all things necessary to Salvation are plain in Scripture and therefore to look after the meaning of dubious places is to do more than of bounden Duty is required and has the appearance of a Work of Supererogation which is such an abominable thing with the Church of England that they have a whole * See 14th Article Article against it and declare that it cannot be taught without arrogancy and impiety much less as I suppose PRACTISED Wherefore as yet there appears no cause why the Apprentice should be chidden for not having waited on Dr. T. in this occasion And indeed if that be the case viz. That the Members of the Church of England are to go to their Ministers for the Construction of these dubious places I do not perceive that they have any great advantage over those of the Church of Rome tho' what the Doctor says were true viz. That Roman Catholics were to apply themselves to particular Priests for the Translation of the Scriptures since the Protestants themselves must make the same application for the Sense and Meaning of these Scriptures And this Sense is that which is of the greatest importance or rather That which is of any Importance at all But in Truth they are not particular Priests which Catholics depend on for either the Translation or Sense of the Scripture in any necessary Point of Faith but it is on their Church whose Voice is as Intelligible at least and with the Doctors leave much farther Heard than that of the Church of England For is it not full as evident in England and much more evident in other Parts of the World that the Church of Rome Teaches a Purgatory than it is that the Church of England Teaches the contrary And so of other Doctrins This is an Age wherein Men whilest they Scepticize on evident Truths are Positive in Absurdities and therefore there want not Those who ask how the Members of the Church of Rome can know what their Church holds But when they shall have considered how they themselves come to know what That Church holds whilest they Condemn it's Doctrins as also how a Man may come to understand what is held by the Church of England they will not I suppose expect any farther Answer This were it not so Common and even with Men of no Common Wit would have been too frivolous to have been taken notice of One endeavor which I used for the speaking somewhat of a Guide in Controversie was on the following occasion Dr. T. having called me to him and desiring as he said that * Pag. 21. Mr. P. would stick to something took upon him to explain a Text of Scripture which had been long before Cited by Mr. P. for the Authority of the Church viz. That of St. Matthew c. 18. v. 17. If he will not hear the Church let him be to thee as an Heathen and a Publican The Doctor said that considering the Antecedent Verses this ought to be understood of ordinary Trespasses such as the not paying of a just debt c. And not of Articles of Faith making use of a tedious Instance to that purpose the summ whereof was * Ibid. that in case a Man should refuse to pay his debts after one or two demands he is put into the Ecclesiastical Courts supposing it proper for their cognisance And if he will not stand to their Sentence then he is Excommunicated and Treated as such a One. Whereupon I told the Doctor that for my own part I understood that Text of Scripture quite otherwise than he did being persuaded that we were obliged by it to Hear the Church in all those things wherein the same Church doth declare that she hath Power to Judge And most especially in matters of Faith Which in their own Nature seem more proper for the Cognisance of Ecclesiastical Courts than a Question of Debt That it was not unusual for our Blessed Saviour on a particular occasion to deliver a general Precept as for instance when the Jews ask'd him whether or no it were lawful to pay Tribute to Caesar he * Mat. c. 22. v. 19 c. called for the Tribute-mony and ask'd whose Image it bore and being Answered that it was Caesars he gave this Rule Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesars Which Rule I suppose is general and hath regard not only to Tribute but also to whatever else is due from Subjects to Sovereign Princes as Respect Obedience and the like tho' the occasion on which the Rule was made and that which immediately preceded it seem to be Particular and to look no farther than his Pecuniary Rights That in like manner tho' this Text viz. If he will not hear the Church c. might be spoken in a Particular occasion it could not be thence inferr'd that it was not of a more large Extension especially if we should compare it with other Texts such as are * Joh. c. 20. v. 21. As my Father sent me so I send you * Matth. c. 28. v. 19 20. Go and Teach all Nations and lo I am with you always even unto the end of the World. a Luke c. 10. v. 16. He that Heareth You Heareth ME c. b Eph. c. 4. v. 11 c. And he gave some Apostles and some Prophets and some Evangelists and some Pastors and Teachers for the perfecting of the Saints for the Work of the Ministry c. That we henceforth be no more Children c If Pastors are left to keep us from being tossed to and fro it follows that we must hearken to them as also that they must be kept from being tossed to and fro themselves Otherwise they will not be able to effect that for which they were left tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of Doctrin c. d Hebr. c. 13. v. 17. Obey those that are set over you for they watch as being to render account for your Souls All which places at least according to my own Judgment are clear for that Perpetuity and that Authority of the Church which are believed by Roman Catholics But above all this Truth seems to be most apparent to me when I consider what immediately follows in this place of Scripture viz. When
worse because it wanted his Approbation I question not but he likes the Reformation as well for not sending Missions into China as for not endeavouring to do good in Coffee-houses The Doctor may call to mind what Instructions were given by St. Paul to Timothy viz. That he should be zealous in his Exhortations even to importunity Preaching as well out of season as in it and then perhaps he will not think it such a mortal Offence to endeavour the reclaiming of a Soul from Error or Vice wheresoever a probability of doing it or even a possibility shall appear especially when he considers that some men are such studious shunners of Pious Instructions that unless they meet with them amidst their Pastimes and when they least think of them they will always want them Such is the goodness of our Lord that when the Guests come not where they may be regularly invited he sends his Servants into the High-ways c. to call them But the Keepers of these Houses will be Losers by such Disputes for men do not love to lace their Coffee with Controversies Dr. St. knows how great an Argument Gain is with most men The Author of a Seasonable Discourse against Popery did it before him when he addressed two of his main Dissuasives to the Grasiers and the Lawyers putting them in mind that if Catholic Religion should be restored in England the one would be impoverish'd by Fasting-days and the other by Appeals to Rome and so engaging that Passion viz. the love of Money to be of his side which as a Divine he ought to have preached against But no damage ought to be apprehended from that which is good And forasmuch as concerns Coffee-houses if men love not to lace their Coffee with Controversie they may lace it with somewhat else or else drink it plain here being variety of Discourses as well as Liquors and a great Liberty of Conscience of calling for what they please Neither is Disputation it self such a Nuisance to this Trade as Dr. St. imagins for let but the Doctor since he thinks it no crime to go to a Coffee-house honor one of them with his Presence tho' with a Disputing design and I will undertake it shall have Custom enough and particularly Mr. G.'s as often as he is in Town This Marginal Note is too long but the matter lay so near my Road that I could not forbear the taking a view of it Discourses were vented in them there being no places so Sacred which such things as these had not access to some time or other no not the Pulpits themselves I consider'd indeed that Misrepresentations of late had been more frequent in Pulpits than formerly wherefore I hinted it was to be feared that e'r long none of them would be left but what would have met with some Misrepresenter or other I will not deny what indeed is evident in it self that I reflected on some Preachers but how this could pass for a Complement on the whole London-Clergy I stand in need of Dr. St.'s Subtilty to make out for as my saying that some Lyes were told in Coffee-houses did not reflect on all those who frequented them nay I was then actually endeavouring to excuse the frequenting them so neither could my intimating that the Pulpits had been liable to some part of that Misfortune concern all those who Preached in them Indeed my Complement as the Doctor calls it was so far from being design'd by me to all the London-Clergy that I directed it not to Dr. St. himself any farther than his own Conscience should look on it as belonging to him However had he taken it to himself I should not have contended so much to have rescu'd it out of his hands I question not but there is a great deal of sincerity amongst the London-Clergy and even so much as to acknowledge that every individual Member of that Body hath it not And after all had it been true as it was not that I had reflected on this whole Clergy what had That been in comparison of Dr. Tenison's If you are a Papist c. which takes in so many Countreys and Ages and even his own Sovereign These are two Instances what Use these Gentlemen can make of their Inferring Faculties when they see it for their purpose Is there any thing here half so plain or so naturally deduced as that which I drew from Dr. Tenison's Proposition Nay rather are not the Inferences of these two Doctors evidently forced whereas mine is genuine and obvious even to the meanest Understanding And yet base and unworthy ways of catching men are laid to my charge and these Gentlemen pass for Plain-dealers But this will not always be so There is a time to come in which there will be nothing of what is now hidden but what shall be revealed And then it will appear how ill a choice those have made who have preferred Fame before Truth and the saving of their Credit before the saving of their Souls The Doctor says farther That for his part he thought his Loyalty at this time to be more valuable than Mr. M. 's because he as a Son of the Church of England professed he would not Rebel against the King notwithstanding he might be of another Religion whereas Mr. M. being of the same Religion could not so well separate Loyalty from Interest Now for my part tho' I hold Works of Supererogation yet I am far from thinking Loyalty at least as it is here * Viz. A not Rebelling against the King. describ'd to be one of those And therefore it is my opinion that we ought as little to value our selves on our not being Rebels as we would do on our not being Thieves or Murderers nay rather less forasmuch as Theft and Murther are certainly less Criminal than Rebellion And therefore a Loyalty to be boasted of if there be any such must be somewhat more than an ordinary Obedience However if the Doctor think his Loyalty at this time more valuable than mine because he demeans himself peaceably under a Prince of a different Religion he ought to remember that for three years which he hath lived so it has fallen to my share to pass over twelve in the same manner only with this difference that He enjoys entire Priviledges of a Free-born Subject sitting under a large Fig-tree and gathering the Fruit of a well-spread Vine and is promis'd the continuance of them having no other * Vnless perhaps a Restraint from vexing others and consequently the want of the old more effectual method of silencing Jesuits be an inconvenience to him cause of disquiet save only what ought to prompt him to nothing but Gratitude the bare Contemplation that were it not for the Goodness of his Sovereign it might have been otherwise These I say are his Enjoyments during this great trial of his Fidelity whereas I on the other side during my Probation was not only debarr'd of those Advantages which my Education
gratias ago nunc pro peccatis Matris meae deprecor te c. St. Aug. lib. 9. Confess c. 13. Almighty God for his Mothers Good Deeds on the one hand and beseeches him to pardon such Sins as possibly she might have committed on the other And he is so Zealous in this Charitable Employment that he is not contented to offer up his own Prayers only for this purpose but begs of such as should read his Book of Confessions wherein he gives an Account of these things that they likewise would joyn Their Petitions to His * Ut quod illa à me poposcit extremum uberius ei praestetur in multorum orationibus Ibid. That so adds this Holy Bishop what my Mother made her last Request to me may the more plentifully be performed for her by the Prayers of Many Other parts of this Dedicatory Address might likewise be dissected and read upon but I fear that my Lecture is too tedious already Neither should it have been so long had I not been willing to shew my Reader what just cause I have to decline the perusal of the whole Book when a few Lines of Preface afford so much and so trivial work Wherefore I shall not stay to examin with what probability of Truth he asserts That the Souls of his Sheep are much dearer to him than their Fleeces when he seems to be so * See above p. 17. sequ loth that any farther Division should be made in the Fleeces tho' for a better Attendance on the Souls Neither will I ask him how he comes in the close of his Letter to call the English Protestant Church * I suppose not from Missions Apostolical as if it came down by perpetual Succession from the Apostles when every body knows that has not read his Ten thousand pounds worth of Books that it began in the last Age and brags of no other Succession than what it pretends to have received from that Church to which in Truth and even according to its own Profession it neither succeeds in Doctrin nor Discipline And lastly whereas the Doctor says That the Establish'd Church so far as he can understand the Temper of it which is somewhat difficult for him to do had rather suffer Injuries than do them I shall only say That if this be so I presume he will give us leave to hope that this Established Church will not look on the power of doing those Injuries as part of Her Establishment And so much for the Preface I come now to what concerns me in the Book I am told that Dr. Tenison in the 58th page of his new Book calls me a Manager in Conference And again page 96. he says That I am the very Sales-man at every Auction of Arguments What the Doctor means by this I cannot well tell nor I suppose He himself Possibly it was somewhat that came into his Head whil'st the Pen was in his Hand and down it went at all Adventures For this was the second Conference I was ever at in my Life excepting casual and unsought Rencounters and how unwillingly I came to this I have already given my Readers an Account It is true that I had like to have been at one or two more in Mr. G. 's Company had not the Ministers who were to be his Antagonists disappointed him twice or thrice But this was before Dr. St. had published his first Letter to Mr. G. and so given me to understand how great an Advantage Latitudinarian Wits have over one not only much less but also ty'd within the streight Rules of Sincerity It is true the Goodness of a Cause is of great Weight but the Disingenuity of an Adversary is a shrewd Counterpoise Now I say how my Being at these two Conferences and that accidentally too and forasmuch as concerns the latter very unwillingly could render me that Manager and Sales-man at Auctions of Arguments which the Doctor 's Nick-naming Faculty would make me I do not perceive But the Doctor has a Rule for this as well as for the rest which he has been pleased to bestow on me viz. Calumniare fortitèr aliquid adhaerebit and therefore I shall say no more of it And yet it is hard to find out why the Doctor turns that into a Calumny which fairly represented would be a Commendation For what could any man do better who had a Talent proper for it than employ his time in freeing Souls from Error an Employment for which our Blessed Lord came into the World and for which his Holy Apostles travelled through it But I forget that the Retrenchment of Missions was one of the most considerable parts of the Reformation However tho' I have not been at many of these Conferences yet I will not deny but that I imagin my self to have arrived to some competency of skill in them and for some proof of this and because I desire to be communicative in so precious a Talent I purpose to make my Readers partakers of it as a Reward of that Patience wherewith they have hitherto endured such tedious and immethodical Discourses promising my self that for the sake of this one Treasure only they will think the rest of their time well bestow'd Now forasmuch as the worse the Cause is the greater skill is required in the Management of it I will lay down some brief Rules whereby as I conceive an ill Cause may be managed in Conference to the best advantage and so as that the Defender of it especially if the Hearers be no wiser than some of Dr. Tenison's Parishioners may come off with great Applause First then let the Scene of your Conference be Brief Rules how an ill Cause may be manag'd to the best advantage lay'd amongst your own Friends and therefore if the Disputer be a Protestant and such he must be to stand in any need of these Instructions let it be in a Protestant Family Before the Conference and the arrival of your Antagonist endeavor to possess your Favorers with a prejudice against him prophesie something which you are sure will come to pass that when it doth so they may have the better Opinion of you For Example Tell them that you are come alone without so much as either Friend or Servant when you know that the whole House are your Friends and that none can be readier to serve you than they are And then lay a wager that your Antagonist brings some one with him because you think it imprudent and therefore unlikely that he should trust himself to the Reports of your Party without some Witness of his own But this as you shall word it must argue Confidence in You and Diffidence in Him. And when you shall see that he complies with what you thought Reasonable turn to your Company and say Did I not tell you that he would not come alone Be sure to begin the Conference with that which hath nothing to do with it Make many Exceptions at the
Some Farther REMARKS ON THE LATE ACCOUNT Given by Dr. TENISON OF HIS Conference with Mr. PULTON Wherein the Doctor 's Three Exceptions against EDWARD MEREDITH are Examined Several of his other Misrepresentations laid open Motives of the said E. M.'s Conversion shewed and some other Points relating to Controversie occasionally treated TOGETHER WITH An Appendix in which some Passages of the Doctor 's Book entituled Mr. Pulton Considered are Re-considered and in the Close the best Means of coming to true Faith proposed To all which is added A Postscript in Answer to the Pamphlet put forth by the School-Master of Long-Acre Ego injuriantem novi sustinentem Published with Allowance LONDON Printed by Henry Hills Printer to the King 's Most Excellent Majesty for His Houshold and Chappel And are to be sold at his Printing-house on the Ditch-side in Black-Fryers 1688. To the Readers YOu are inform'd at the beginning of the following Discourse what Accident engag'd me in it And since as you will perceive it was not Choice but Necessity I have a Title to your favorable perusal When persons offer themselves at the Bar for the Defence of Others it is expected they should be Eloquent that is qualified for such an Undertaking but when a man is brought thither to plead for himself it is enough if he come with Sincerity and an intelligible Expression Again if outward Objects have so much influence on the Conceptions of the Mind as they are believ'd to have on those of the Body you will not look for great matters in this Pamphlet when you consider not only my own Inability but also what lay before my eyes whil'st I compos'd it For certainly whatever Dr. Tenison may have shewn himself in other Writings these which have been the Subject of my Remarks do not challenge our admiration for their Excellence As for Method I take that which is usual in Remarks by suffering my Author to lead me which way he pleases and therefore whatever leaps I am forc'd to make from one Matter to another must be attributed to those Hedges and Ditches ouer which I am conducted by him But to say the Truth how unpleasant soever these Incoherences may appear to the Reader they were of no small Convenience to me For having no time for this Task but what was greatly interrupted both by Business and Sickness my Memory would hardly have serv'd me to have carried the Matter of any large and connected Discourse through so many Intermissions and such variety of other thoughts whereas this broken and incoherent Theme was as it happen'd very suitable to my leisure However these Interruptions must apologize for that slowness wherewith this Pamphlet comes abroad For tho' much time be past since Dr. Tenison's Books call'd on me especially the former yet that which has been at my disposal has not been much Nay on the contrary it has been so little that what comes forth with so much seeming deliberation was really written in more hast than my Forces which have not been much exercis'd this way could well comply with And indeed had I not consider'd that things of this nature grow out of season like Gazetts and Almanacs I should have had so much respect for my Readers as to have spent a few more hours in preparing for their Entertainment The Doctor whether it be to manifest the quickness of his Parts or to shew us that his Parishioners are so * Epist to his Parishioners pious and so * steddy that they need not the looking after is very fruitful in such Productions but Nobis non licet esse tà m disertis But altho' in the Method of this Discourse as I have intimated I follow my Author yet I do it not so closely but that sometimes I make a stand and take a view of such things as lie within prospect My thoughts have not been so wholly busied in vindicating my self as I have had occasion to take notice of in some places of the following Paper much less in annoying my Adversary that I have not consider'd which way to benefit my Readers And herein if I have treated of some things which may seem beneath the Dignity of the Press for I have attended in my choice more to ordinary Conversations than to Books I hope it may pass without Censure For since all higher Points are already sufficiently discuss'd by Learned Pens I am not to be blamed if I choose some of those which are not only more proportionable to my strength but also may be taken up with less Presumption for having been rejected by better Writers as not worth their while And yet had these matters which I here speak of been only the peculiar Extravagances of some over-strain'd Fancy they might and ought perhaps to have been contemn'd But when such trivial things if you will call them so are daily both spoken with Confidence and heard with Patience nay when oftentimes at least in outward shew they are the sole hindrances of Conversion they cease to be trivial and we must rectifie that Idea which we have of them from the bare consideration of their Nature by weighing their Effects A Chirurgeon is not so much to attend to the prick of a Thorn as to the Gangrene which possibly may have been caused by it And now I will not deny but it is the greatest of my Desires that all my Protestant Readers might be Converted They will not take this in ill part when they know I firmly believe there is not other way for their Salvation However what I ask of them at present is much less and even what themselves cannot refuse without pleasing me much better viz. by changing their Religion This will be no longer a Paradox when I tell them It is only that for some time at least they would be truly Protestants My meaning is That whereas they affirm first that their Faith is not to be pinn'd on another's Sleeve and secondly that none ought to pretend to Infallibility they would now conform themselves to their own Principles and consequently neither be so far enchanted by the Name or Reputation of their Teachers on the one side as to take things from them without farther Examination nor so far ty'd to their own Opinions on the other as not to suspect them where they are contradicted by Men as Wise as Learned and as far as may be guess'd by the exterior as Good as themselves This I say is all I ask of my Protestant Readers and this as I hinted is nothing else in effect than that they would be Protestants The Reformation it self was grounded on the first of these two Principles and the second is a Natural Result from the first For how could Christians have separated from their Church-Guides in order to a Reformation had they not fancied an Obligation of Distrusting them And having once for the necessary justification of this Proceeding denied Infallibility to these Guides with what shadow of Modesty could they arrogate the
or not The Scripture does not tell us of a Church which is to continue only to the end of the Fifth Age. It tells us indeed of one which is to continue to the End of the World And this Church I hope may be found as well in the Fourteenth Age as in the Fifth For if all the Christians of the Fourteenth were Erroneous and Corrupted and stood in need of Reformation those of the Fifth might have been so too for any thing which the Scriptures can assure us to the contrary This Rock then of my Protestant Faith being shaken I mean a Belief that the Church of England had Model'd it self according to the Doctrins of the first Five Hundred Years it will not be wonder'd at if at least I gave way to some doubts I found no better footing in that way which was taken by those Church of England-men who conversed more with Roman Catholics than with Protestant Dissenters viz. Scripture as it is understood by every private Man. First Because those who took that way differed from one another in most material things and also Such as were esteemed Heretics by the Church of England followed the same Rule Secondly Because according to my own Judgment who were by this Rule to judge for my self the Church of England was beholding to Tradition for some Parts of her Doctrin and Practice as Infant-Baptism the Observation of the first Day of the Week and the like having no clear Scripture for them and therefore could not hold them and require them to be held by the Rule of Scripture Interpreted without the help of Tradition Thirdly Because it was sincerely my own Judgment that the Scripture was much clearer for the Catholics than for the Protestants particularly in Transubstantiation Sacramental Confession Extreme Vnction Purgatory St. Peters Supremacy and lastly and chiefly being that which includes all other Points the Decisive Authority of the Church wherefore if I must follow Scripture Interpreted by my self I must at the same time necessarily cease to follow the Church of England These certainly were Motives if not for an absolute departure from the Church of England yet still at least as I have already hinted for the doubting of her Truth About this time I remember that I had two notions concerning Faith. First That Faith was not that which must necessarily suit with the Fancies of particular Men since then it ought to be as various as those Fancies were but it was that which God would have us believe whether we fancied it or not viz. That which he would have us * Bringing into Captivity all understanding into the Obedience of Christ 2 Cor. c. 10. v. 5. submit our Fancies and Judgments to meerly because it was revealed by him And in this submission as I thought consisted both the Difficulty and Merit of Faith. And consequently that I ought not so much to consider the nature of the things proposed to be believed as the Authority by which they were proposed Secondly That this Faith was the * Ephes c. 2. v. 8. Gift of God and for that reason that more confidence was to be put in humbe Prayer for the obtaining it than in any Human Skill or Industry Wherefore as far as God Almighties Grace assisted my weakness I endeavored to obtain this Gift by that means making it my earnest Prayer to his Divine Goodness that I might know the Truth and firmly purposing to embrace that which I should be convinced of tho' it should be ever so contrary to my Worldly Interest as the Roman Catholic Religion at that time most apparently was To Prayer I judged it necessary to add a serious endeavor of amending my Life lest otherwise I should be found to sue Hypocritically for more light from Almighty God whilst I made no use of that which I had received from him by complying with what I already knew to be his Will. This is a Point which all those who are in search of the True Faith ought to examin their Consciences upon and therefore I would not omit the mention of it in this place Amidst these doubts I confess ingenuously that what our English Doctors have made so light of was of great moment with me viz. That the Church of England-men affirmed that Salvation might be had amongst the Roman Catholics but the Roman Catholics absolutely denyed that the like was to be had amongst them For Salvation in the Roman Communion both Churches concurr'd whereas for the latter we had only the bare word of Protestants in their own behalf Who likewise at the same time told us they were fallible and consequently for ought they knew might be mistaken And if they were actually mistaken I should be undone by rarrying with them whereas on the other side if they were not mistaken I could receive no damage by being amongst the Roman Catholics In a word I considered that if the Protestants were true I should be safe with the Roman Catholics but if the Roman Catholics were right I could not be so with the Protestants This Motive is so strong in it's own Nature that many Protestants confess that it must needs have great Power with those who as they say cannot throughly examin the differences betwixt us and these I take to be the greatest part of Mankind And if so I will venture to add that GOD Almighty having taken as much care of the Ignorant as of the Learned would never permit Falshood to be supported by such Arguments as must in common Prudence oblige all unlearned persons to be engaged in it But above all methinks this Argument should be of force with those Vniversal Gentlemen who pretend that their Religion is the Catholic because they believe nothing but that wherein all agree forgetting that such a Restraint of their Belief is peculiar to themselves and not common whereas here is an Agreement of all Parties at least such as have any Esteem with them on which they may safely rely viz. That Salvation may be had in the Roman Catholic Church which is all we do or at least ought to aim at by our Religion As for those other Points which perhaps they hold viz. A Deity a Saviour and the like tho' they have the universal consent of all Christians for their Truth yet they have it not for their sufficiency to Salvation especially so as to exclude the Necessity of believing other Articles when they are duly proposed and it will be of small Consequence to them that what they hold common with others proves True if their additional Article which holds this Truth to be sufficient should prove False What was urged in derogation of this Argument as if the Protestants shew'd a greater Charity by thinking well of Catholics than Catholics did by thinking ill of them was nothing to my purpose For I was then in search of True Faith and not of Charity and knew withal that how great appearance soever there might be of Charity it could not
proved that on the denyal of this Roman Authority as the Doctor calls it Men would have no reason to believe a God it must needs have followed that the Roman Authority was not to be denyed Besides An Arian might have upbraided the Antient Catholics after the same manner and said that so much insisting on the necessity of believing a Trinity would rather make the People Atheists or Vnbelievers than Converts And that the Indifferent would be ready to say content We cannot believe the Trinity and we will have no Deity For Athanasius tells us that it will stand us in little stead to believe a God unless we also believe what is plainly repugnant to our Reason a Trinity of persons in an Vnity of Substance And this Discourse would not have been less conclusive in the Arians Mouth than it was in the Doctors This was the Answer which the Doctor by the Spirit of Prophecy thought not worth the tarrying for and therefore faced about to Mr. P. Which I should not have complained of had it been to have Answered Mr. P's Question But instead of this to shew how sollicitous he was for the Discovery of Truth in so important a Point as a Rule of Faith he * Pag. 6. near the end falls into an insignificant cavil Where I leave him it being too troublesome for me to trace him through all his turnings and windings However what is here said may serve to give the Reader some kind of Notion of them He says p. 14. Mr. M. had some while before asked Pag. 14. Dr. T. who had said that we find the Bible which we now have Quoted by the Antient Fathers how he came to know they were Fathers To which Question he thought an Answer in that place a condescention to an Impertinence The Doctor had been asked upon what Authority or Testimony for the Doctor distinguishes between them he had received his Bible He answered amongst other things that he found his Bible Quoted by the Antient Fathers Now I considered that the Fathers and their works stood in need of some Testimony themselves for their being relyed on And therefore I asked the Doctor how he knew they were Fathers By Fathers I suppose he meant Orthodox Bishops or Doctors of the Church Wherefore the meaning of my Question was how he could prove those whom he accounted Fathers to be Orthodox If he should have said that they had been allowed to be such by all Christians It would have been denyed him there having been and still being several Societies of such as Profess Christianity who assert the contrary And therefore unless the Doctor could give us a mark whereby we might know which sort of Christians are in the right and which in the wrong it would be impossible for us to understand from their Testimony whether the Fathers were Orthodox or not If he should have replyed that these Fathers were approved by our selves That also would have been as little to his purpose For if he looks on our Authority as Good he ought to receive several other things upon it which he does not And if he takes it not to be such he cannot confide in it either for Scripture or Fathers Since here they are not Arguments ad hominem or concerning only the Private difference between us and them but general Arguments which we require of them I mean such as may serve to evidence the certainty of Holy Writ to the whole World. And if the Doctor would have granted that this could have been done by our Authority it may easily be believed that we should have asked no more Lastly If he should have said that he knew those Antient Fathers to be Orthodox no otherwise than by the Conformity which he observed in their Tenets to the Doctrin of the Scriptures which is the Protestant way of proving the Orthodoxness of either particular Men or Churches he would have involved himself in a Circle by proving the Fathers to be true from their agreement with the Scriptures and the Scriptures to be so from the approbation of the Fathers By this time I suppose it sufficiently appears to unbyass'd Readers that Doctor Tenison would have shewed his Learning more by Answering this Question than he has done his Manners by calling it Impertinent Here I cannot but take notice that this Question of mine is inserted in a wrong place to make People believe that I was present to so much of the Conference Whereas I am as certain as my memory can make me that I heard none of those Discourses from the middle of the Doctors 10th Page till towards the latter end of his 17th When the Doctors loud Clamors about the Quotation out of St. Ambrose brought me back from the Window whither I had retired long before viz. before the abovesaid Discourses which begin at the middle of the Tenth Page I say I was present to none of those Discourses between the middle of the Tenth and the latter end of the 17th Page excepting somewhat which is mis-placed viz. Mr P's Reprehension of the School-master for his Wry Mouths c. which was soon after the beginning of the Conference and a little while before I withdrew But the Doctor sets it down in this Pag. 15. place that the People may not imagin that the School-master came so soon to his Assistance as in Truth he did Neither was this Reprehension occasioned as the Doctor would have it by any Discourse concerning the Lateran Council which was not then spoken to but on the School-masters producing a Picture in a Breviary and to shew his Wit laughing at it Which was an action no way pertinent to the matter then in debate And therefore the Doctor to disguise the School-masters intrusion says nothing of the Discourse which happened about the Picture It is unhappy says the Doctor p. 65. that amidst so many things we can have nothing sincere and in it's Naturals The reason of it is because in such occasions the Truth is seldom honorable for both sides And I question not but the Doctor is convinced by this time that he was much in the right when he chose rather to trust his own Memory than his own Amanuensis Concerning what he says p. 14. viz. Mr. M. asked what Writers I do not remember that Question neither did I hear the Discourse of that Paragraph What he said also to me in Derogation of Mr. P. tho' he hath it p. 15. was a long time after But the Doctor is resolved to spread my Controversie through his whole Narrative tho' by this means it be very thin and neither much for my credit nor his It is possible that the Doctor thinks to help it out by putting my Name at length so * Six times in two Pages often as he doth throughout this famous Story whereas the rest of the persons of his Drama excepting only one as I take it have only the first Letter of Theirs However lest the Doctor should design
making as great or greater shew than Figures amount to no summ For example to instance in the matter of our present Consideration when we ask them how they prove their Bible They tell us by it's own light * See Pag. 9. and 10. Their interior Sense and by the Testimony of Jews Turks Infidels and lastly of whole Bodies of Erroneous and Corrupted * Viz. Such Christians as are accounted Erroneous and Corrupted by them Christians whereas the Catholics have but one poor Testimony to oppose to all these viz. That of a true uncorrupted and uninterrupted Church Now it is not every ordinary Head which at least without settling will serve for a just Ballance to these two Proofs and not be weighed down by that which is most Bulky tho' least Weighty And yet one would think that it were impossible but that rational Creatures should see the plain Nullity of the former and the most abundant Sufficiency of the latter But to return to my business Dr. T. says in the latter end of his 17th Page That Mr. M. took Pen and Dr. T. delivering him the Paper he had signed in order to a regular proceeding he began to Write the first words of these Questions Whether God Almighty has left us any Guide c. The truth of the matter of Fact is this Dr. Tenison having after much time spent in vain if that may be said to be so which was spent as was most for the Doctors purpose drawn Mr. P. from that point which he had designed for the subject of the whole Conference viz. The Rule of Faith and fallen into particular matters where there is much more Sea-room for Controversie and consequently less danger of being run a-ground whilst these things were under debate Mr. P. happening to produce some proofs out of the Fathers in favor of Transubstantiation and particularly quoting a passage out of St. Ambrose de Sacramentis for one The Doctor to use his own words catch'd at it crying out that the Book was Spurious and none of St. Ambrose's And in this transport called for Pen Ink and Paper And to shew what a willing Mind may do that which was so hard to come by when the Writing of the Conference was proposed was brought him in a trice He writes down his Doughty Challenge Which was to this purpose That the Book cited by Mr. P. was Spurious and a late Book and none of St. Ambrose's and that he Dr. Thomas Tenison would shew it to be such This he valiantly subscribed Now indeed according to due Form Mr. P. should have underwritten That he would not fail to meet this bold Challenger desiring only a fair Stage and of him no favor But this it seems he refused for those reasons which he has already * See Mr. P 's Account p. 10. and sequ Published Now all this was done with so much noise and Triumph on the Doctors part and with such Tumultuous applause of his Adherents that being over and above called upon by them with great importunity I thought it convenient to put my self into the midst of the Bustle that I might come to know the matter and keep the Peace if it should lie in my Power As soon as I understood what had been the cause of so much Tumult I immediately applyed my self to the Doctor who had made some kind of Appeal to me and told him That indeed I could not but look on it as a very disingenuous proceeding that he should importune Mr. P. to Subscribe to One single Quotation as if that had been the Only thing that in so many hours he had been able to produce for the defence of his Religion Which would have appeared very Ridiculous whether the Book could be proved Authentic or not to any Wise Man of either Church I added That the Doctor should permit Mr. P. to do what he had desired viz. Write down all his Quotations and Arguments and Sign to them which would look like something and that then the Doctor should do his Best And lastly that this was no more than what was Fair and Reasonable The Doctor having little regard to what was said either by Mr. P. or my self still pressed Mr. P. to subscribe But Mr. P. not being drawn by the Doctors repeated instances nor by the Importunity of his * Pag. 70. and in Mr. P's Acc. pa. 11. Ingenious Women to what he judged neither Prudent nor Equitable I took the Pen into my hand and taking the Paper from Dr. Tenison's I told him that I would Write something which should look more like the substance of the Conference than what he had Written and in it self be more Efficacious towards the ending of the Controversie What I would have set down was as follows Whether God Almighty hath left us any Guide or Guides to direct us in the Interpretation of Scripture in things necessary to Salvation Or Whether he hath left every one to his own Vnderstanding in such Interpretation without obliging him to submit his Judgment to any other But I had scarce Written the three first Words of these Questions before the Doctor snatches away the Paper and blots out my Writing as much as he could with his Fingers Which was as I suppose lest * Pag. 70. some weight might be laid upon Ones Writing and Signing and the others Refusing For this * Viz. Dr. T 's Writing and Signing and Mr. P's Refusing to Sign was to be the Sign of Dr. Tenisons carrying the day And if I had Written and the Doctor had refused to Sign as it was Ten to one but he would all had been spoiled and the business had been but a drawn Battel at best Now I must confess that there was no great weight to be laid upon my three Words especially after the Doctor had blotted them But certainly the Doctors not giving leave to Write will bear as much Weight as Mr. P's refusing to Sign But Dr. T. said that I was drawing them away from their Point I know not how far it drew them from their Point But I am sure it drew them back to that Point which was proposed for the Subject of their Conference and which they ought to have been upon viz. The Rule of Faith And which had it been once fixt would have settled even that Point which they had then rambled to Wherefore as I have said already I told the Doctor that I would propose somewhat that might be look'd on as the substance of the Conference with more justice than what he had Written And as he had taken the liberty to pick out of this Conference what pleased him best for Writing so he ought to have permitted us to make choice of that which we had a mind to for the like purpose Especially when in Truth the Question which Mr. P. had proposed and Mine were of the same nature and the Doctor by Answering One would have Answered Both Or indeed when my Question was
but the second Branch of Mr. P's Mr. P. ask'd from whom we were to receive the Scriptures My Question was from whom we were to have the Meaning of them Now St. Augustin will tell you that you ought to receive the Sense or meaning of the Scripture from those on whose Testimony you admit the Letter according to a * Aug. contra Epist Fundam passage which I formerly Quoted to Dr. St And which he not liking as I suppose St. Augustins Judgment took no notice of Wherefore according to the Sense of this Father if Dr. Tenison had found out those Christians on whom he might have relyed for the receiving of the Scriptures which was Mr. P's Question he would have known whom to have trusted for the understanding them which was Mine Which being so I leave my Readers to Judge whether either of these Questions were not much more to the purpose than that which the Dr. set up Indeed it was so little to our Controversie whether that Book were truly St. Ambrose's or not that I wonder that a grave Man should forget himself so much as to lay any stress on it when other Proofs were offered full as plain and out of Writers of as great Authority as St. Ambrose and even when there is a passage to the same purpose and to a great degree in the same words in an undoubted Work of St. Ambrose Nay one of the Arguments which is brought against the Authority of this Book De Sacramentis is that the words of this Quotation are in another Work of the same St. Ambrose and that it is improbable this Author would use the same Words and Phrases in two distinct Books Which if a good Argument against the Authority of that Book is likewise a very good one for the Authority of the Passage Wherefore if that passage which was alledged or one Equivalent to it were undoubtedly St. Ambrose's of what moment could it be whether that particular Book which was first named were St. Ambrose's or not If the passage prove what it was produced for it is at least Equivalently in an undoubted work of St. Ambrose And if it prove nothing why so much clutter whether the Book be Authentic or not Here the Reader may be put in mind of another Method which the Protestants use in their Disputations When the Work of any Father is Quoted by Catholics if it were ever doubted of there is no remedy but it must pass for Spurious And when it shall happen to be Undoubted they will do as much as in them lies to render it Dubious at least in those places which are Quoted But when nothing of this will do their last shift is Interpretation which indeed does their business effectually This Interpretation is laid up like a Treasure which is never to be brought forth but in cases of urgent necessity Otherwise they would need no other Fond for the carrying on of almost all their Controversial Expeditions For what need is there that they should spoil their Eyes with poring on old Worm-eaten Manuscripts for the disproof of an Author when perhaps the passage which they would evade is not half so plain against them as that of some unquestioned Book which already they have set aside by their Interpretation What Obligation is there that Words in a Spurious Work should have quite another Sense than the self-same words in one which is Legitimate No but this knack of Interpreting is too great a cheat to be often Practised and therefore when any thing else will serve the turn this must not appear I said that Interpretation was their last shift But unless this be understood with some restriction I think I was too hasty in my Reckoning Their shifts are like the Priviledges of some Parliaments not so easie to be numbred For sometimes when the Author is unquestioned the passage too palpably plain to be wrested and the Party somewhat more indifferent and not so greedy of being impos'd on and when for these reasons the Gordian-knot cannot be untyed what should they do but follow Alexanders example They lop off a Century or two out of the Five Hundred Years which their Brethren are wont to Appeal to and it is great odds but the Father that is Quoted most of them and those the most Celebrated being in the fourth and fifth Centuries drops with them and loses his Authority not out of any particular picque that they have against this Father whoever he be but because he lived in ill times and when Popish Errors began to be predominant But if it shall so happen that they do not see him lying on the ground together with these Two Hundred Years the third Century is sure to follow and then it is a Thousand to one but they have him down However if after all this he shall yet remain untoucht Perhaps another Branch may fall for these Errors were very early in the Church or else the Fathers are sicut caeteri Homines and as Dr. T. intimates p. 16. there is no Decisive Determination to be built on what they say This you will say as I have said * See above pa. 27. before agrees not well with an Appeal to the first Five Hundred Years However this gradual Proceeding argues great Moderation a thing that is sometimes bragg'd of and shews that the Members of this Church are not for carrying matters to Extremities but where Necessity which hath no Law obliges them I intimated above that it was ten to one but Dr. Tenison would have refused to Write or Sign any Answer to my Questions Which was no groundless Conjecture of my own For had he not differed from himself he would most certainly have done so A Gentleman of my acquaintance then a Protestant had formerly carried him these Questions and desir'd his Answer to them in Writing In the first place the Doctor took a very sufficient time for consideration And in the second he absolutely refused to give any thing under his hand saying in excuse that he knew not what Inference might be made Whereupon I remember I advised the Gentleman to put him in mind at their next meeting of the Logical Maxim A veris possunt nil nisi vera sequi telling him consequently that if his Answer were true he need not fear that any thing should follow from it but Truth In the mean time I am not ignorant that there is something in the Doctors Narrative which is a kind of * Pag. 18. Answer to my Questions But as the Reader will perceive it is not offered by the Doctor as his Answer to them neither is there any thing else set forth as such throughout his whole Pamplet save only the mention of two Books pag. 56. and a little one which perhaps might be one of them that Mrs. V. had from him pag. 24. I say there is nothing else but these Books which is proposed by Dr. T. as an Answer to those Questions Now for my own part I
an Holy Invective against them He calls them Vngodly Men and compares them to Brute Beasts By and by he stiles them Followers of Cain Balaam and Core Spots Clouds without Water carried about of Wind Trees without Fruit twice dead and pluck'd up by the Roots Raging Waves of the Sea Wandring Stars Mockers in the last time with much more of this nature And lastly that we may know whom he means by all this he gives us their Mark and their Crime in one single word These says he be they who SEPARATE themselves This therefore being the Phrase of the Apostles and Saints viz. so sharp so penetrating so full of perfect abhorrence towards those who violated what they had so tender a concern for the Unity of the Church I shall need few words for the Justification of a sharpness of Language which comes far short of theirs For if bare Separation deserv'd so much severity what shall we say when erroneous Doctrin is added to Separation and both are maintained by unjust and fraudulent Proceedings On the contrary I am afraid it would be a harder task to excuse that coldness wherewith we often treat such things as these It may very well be apprehended that whil'st we play the Courtiers too much in Controversie we may leave the Crimes of Heresie and Schism divested of that Horrour wherewith they ought always to be represented And therefore to say the truth it was not so much for the defence of the severity of our Language towards Protestants that I have chosen these two Instances out of numberless others of the same time and to the same purpose but it was chiefly that I might take this occasion of shewing my Readers what great apprehensions the Primitive Christians had of those things whereof now-adays we make so little account that so what the Age will not bear from my Pen they may receive from those whom they pretend to follow There is but little difference say some between Vs and the Catholics as if that were little for which the Unity of the Church is broken or indeed as if the meer breach of that Unity were little Let them who have this thought consider these two passages which I have cited and for farther satisfaction if they shall yet want it compare on the same Subject the rest of the Scriptures with the One and the rest of the Fathers with the other and then it is probable they will be of another Opinion I am sure they will have reason to be so I intimated that the principal Design of my alledging the Examples of St. Jude and St. Augustin was not to defend the sharp Language of our Controvertists This indeed had been superfluous and my Readers might well have blam'd me for an unnecessary Paragraph For besides that what I said at first of the necessity we are in of using such Expressions is abundantly sufficient for their excuse we have the Example of our very Accusers for the same sharpness should we stand in need of any farther justification For could but Dr. Tenison consider Himself and his Friends but half so narrowly as he doth his Adversaries he would find that those Reverend Gentlemen he mentions are not behind-hand with us on that score but rather they give us two for one What I have collected out of his own Pamphlet may serve for a small Instance There are other Books as well stor'd But what need of more It is well known that Superstitious Idolatrous Antichristian Devilish c. are Terms of course and as ancient as that of Papists And indeed as the matter is now between us if sharpness were an undoubted sign of an Apostolical Spirit They would pass for Apostles and We for Schismatics It is true there is a difference between sharpness and scurrility and therefore we ought to be careful that whil'st we imitate the Fathers in the One we may not follow the Heretics in the Other the One being the result of Zeal the Other of Malice And this last kind of Eloquence was heard so early amongst our Reformers witness Luther's especial Talent in this way that it may well be termed the Vagitus or First-Cries of the Reformation But says the Doctor They say this ill of us not because we are such but because we are not theirs This he SAYS and because * Ep. Ded. in his new Book Defending and Proving is so disagreeable an Employment to him he expects that his Parishioners who * Ep. to his Parishioners in his first Book pass as high Obligations on their Pastor as man can have to man will continue their high Obligations so far as to believe him without Proof He tells them by and by That J. S. is now under better hands This looks like an Insinuation as if there were some hopes of reclaiming him I thought the Boy had been past recovery He was assured as he says in the 3d page of his Narrative that this Conference would be to no purpose as to the Boy And since neither Dr. Hornec's Things of Moment * Pag. 3. nor Dr. Tenison's Great Conference wherein Nine some say Fifteen Jesuits were silenced could do any good upon this Youth he had so much perverseness in his heart and so * Pag. 2. strange a figure in his Countenance it is probable that those Hands from which the Doctor seems to hope so great success must go some other way to work with him than by what the Doctor doth not care for Defending and Proving In Dr. T.'s former Volume we had some Confessions and Retractations and might have imagined that a new St. Augustin had risen up amongst us But in This he retracts his Retractations and so St. Augustin * Ep. to his Par. in his first Book as it were vanishes away and Dr. Tenison is left us in his stead When he published his first Book he voluntarily owned what he THEN thought less decent But his Friends reprov'd him for making Apologies for Warmnesses which they cannot find And he will not so much suspect their Sagacity as to imagin they are in the wrong especially where the suspecting it is so little for his Credit Wherefore he now changes his Note In his first Epistle to these Parishioners he spoke thus What I said either with less Strength or more Warmth than I ought I have set down and laid it before your Charity It may be I have a motive to severe Language towards that sort of Men which few have besides me Then he tells the Story of Gubbard and concludes This Instance of such gross Hypocrisie and Injustice made Impression upon me when I was young and so raised my Suspicion and Indignation that where I have met with any thing of a like nature it has been some difficulty to me to temper my self But nothing I hope shall ever so transport me as to prevent the doing of my Duty among you c. Here the Doctor asks pardon for some Warmnesses of his at the Conference and
wished Rest to none but those who as they thought already enjoy'd it And even this Wish of theirs if it had Charity it had also in my Opinion Weakness in it And truly it had so in my Opinion too for I must not always differ with the Doctor if they wished Rest to none but those whom they supposed to enjoy it already For would it not be a Weakness in Me or in any one else whom the Doctor should take for a better Friend to wish that Dr. Tenison were possess'd of the two Parishes of St. Martin's and St. James's And if a man should wish tho' ever so heartily that the Doctor had a great deal of Sincerity I am afraid that he would take it for somewhat worse than a Weakness tho' at the same time the Party should tell him that he imitated some Christians about the Fourth Age in wishing to Folks no more than what they believed they had already But why should the Doctor fancy thà t those Holy and Learned Men I mean the Ancient Fathers those Pillars of Christianity during the first and purest Ages of the Church and those whom not only Mr. Thorndyke but the whole English Reformation pretends to imitate why I say should he imagin that these Great Men were guilty of so much Weakness Certainly if Christian Religion be a * Rom. 12. 1. Reasonable Service we cannot think that the Best Christians were the most Vnreasonable Men. These Fathers pray'd for the Dead in most express Terms they offer'd Sacrifices for them they begg'd of Almighty God to forgive them their sins they exhorted the Faithful to do the like they declared that such Prayers and Sacrifices were beneficial to the Souls of the Deceased St. Augustin hath a whole * Viz. De curâ pro Mortuis Book on this Subject and there is scarce any one of the Fathers who hath not somewhat to the same purpose And were all these Doings for nothing Did they think that their Prayers would help none but those who stood in no need of their help which is as much as to say that they would help none at all Certainly the Doctor cannot think this But all Truths are not to be spoken at all times It is better that the Fathers should pass for Weak Men in * Would not such Praying also be a Mocking of God the Taking his Name in vain and the Being guilty of Idle words even at our Devotions Praying where they knew it was to no purpose than that the Papists should have so strong a proof of Purgatory from the Consent of the Ancient Church that the Dead in some cases might be helped by the Prayers of the Living And their praying for none but whom they * If by thought he means absolutely supposed thought to be already in Happiness is so far from being true that they prayed not for the * Ideoque habet Ecclesiastica disciplina quod Fideles noverunt cùm Martyres recitantur ad Altare Dei ubi non pro ipsis oretur pro caeteris vero commemoratis Defunctis oratur Injuria est enim pro Martyre orare cujus nos debemus orationibus commendari St. Aug. Serm. 17. de verb. Ap. cap. 1. Martyrs meerly because they concluded them to be Happy and consequently not to stand in need of their Prayers It is worth observing after what fashion this matter is spoken of by the Doctor He imitated says he some Christians about the Fourth Age. By some Christians I suppose he means all the Holy Fathers of that Time and indeed he might have taken in the whole Catholic Church in which as * In Machabaeorum libris legimus oblatum pro mortuis Sacrificium Sed etsi musquam in Scriptur is veteribus omninò legeretur non parva tamen est Universae Ecclesiae quae in hac Consuetudine claret Authoritas ubi in precibus Sacerdotis quae Domino Deo ad ejus Altare sunduntur locum suum habet etiam commendatio mortuorum St. Aug. lib. de Curâ pro mortuis c. 1. St. Augustin assures us this Practice of Praying for the Dead was Universal By about the Fourth Age I suppose he means the said Fourth and the two next to it both before and after viz. the Fifth and the Third and to these he might if he had so pleased have added the Two First So that we have the settled Custom of all Antiquity deliver'd to us as the peculiar or private Practice of some Christians about the Fourth Age. Neither is this without Mystery For having said in his first Book p. 16. that he would not part with the Fathers and having now an occasion of dismissing them as weak men he signs their Discharge in other Names that he may not seem to be worse than his word When he can discover any thing in their Writings which may be wrested for his purpose they shall be as much Fathers as you please but when he catches them holding a Popish Doctrin they are out of Favor and must be turn'd into some Christians about the Fourth Age. But if the Doctor means by what he says in this place that there were some Christians about the time he mentions who imagined that Souls could not be help'd by Prayers or Wishes and therefore wish'd Rest to none but whom they supposed to enjoy what they wish'd them and so dissented from the Universal Church which as hath been shewn pray'd for the Dead out of another Principle There might for ought I know have been some such Christians but as yet I never heard of them Lastly if by some Christians wishing Rest to such as they thought to have it he means that they had so good an Opinion of those they pray'd for as to think they were already received into Bliss he need not play the Antiquary so much as to go to the Fourth Age for such Christians as these They may be found in the Seventeenth We our selves the Catholics of these times are not so uncharitable but that we think that many of our Deceased Brethren whom we recommend to Almighty God in our daily Prayers are already in the fruition of that Glory which we so earnestly sollicite for them but because we do but think so and are not certain of it we still continue our usual Intercessions left possibly it may not be so well with them as we imagin And so our Charity is exercised both ways as well by offereing this Relief to our Friends as by having so good an Opinion of them at the same time as to think they need it not And in this manner St. Augustin pray'd for his Mother For tho' as he says himself she lived so vertuously that he had reason to hope she contracted nothing since her Baptism which might retard her admission to Eternal Happiness yet because for ought he knew it might be otherwise he thanks * Ego itaque Deus cordis mei sepositis paulisper bonis ejus actibus pro quibus tibi gaudens