An obedience which themselves though subjects do deny to the decree of all those preceding Councils wherein the judgment of all the Bishops and Metropolitans of the then western world concurred and amongst the rest those of these two Provinces also yet doth their Synod require it § 61 And their requiring this thought to be rationally thus defended Because Though it is not impossible but that such Synod may err yet it may be certain that in somthing it doth not err ‖ Mr. Stilling-fleet p 542. And so to such point may enjoyn assent becaus the thing determined is so evident in Scripture as that all denying of it must be wilful ‖ Mr. Whitby p. 100. But mean-while you see all these Councils have denied what this Synod of twenty six Bishops is certain of and certain from evidence of Scripture an evidence the perusal of which all those Councils had as well as these Here let a sober Christian judge if assent be held due to this London-Synod upon such a pretended certainty of theirs is it not to those other much rather to those others I say incomparably more numerous accepted by the whole West for many Ages and adhered-to still by the greatest part thereof having before them the Scriptures and the traditive Exposition of them weighing the Arguments that are still on foot meeting so often and concluding still in the same Judgment But if these other Councils are justified by the practice of this English Synod either in their requiring assent or at least silence thus is the Reformation rendred unlawful as likewise their appeal to future Councils which can afford us no more just satisfaction than the forepast As for that refuge usually sought in flying to the contrary judgment or non-acceptance of the Eastern Churches in this point it helps not For 1st besides a considerable presence of Grecian Bishops that there was in some of these Councils as to a tacit-approbation or non-opposition in this point the Greek Churches have never bin found to have made the least anti-declaration And 2ly You may see below Disc 3. § 158. the Testimonies both of their own Writers and also of several Protestants shewing their accord herein with the Western Churches § 62 As for the Appeal that is made by many to our sences that they may be consulted rather than the Church or the Fathers who yet had as perfect an information from their sences as we from ours for the decision of this point and as for the many contradictions that are mustered up by them ‖ See Mr. Tillorsons Rule of faith p. 271. Dr. Tailor Real price p. 207 c. 251. c. Stillingf Rat. account p. 117 567. out of Philosophy and from natural reason against it 1st I think all are here agreed that the contrary testimony of sence or the seeming contradictions of Reason are not to be regarded where Divine Revelation declares any thing to be Truth That which I am now upon saith Mr. Stillingfleet ‖ p. 567. in the place where he urgeth such contradictions of sence and reason to Transubstantiation is not how far reason I add or sence is to be submitted to divine Authority in case of certainty that there is a divine Revelation for what I am to believe This saith enough But give me leave to add the judgment of two or three Protestants more in this matter here a little to check the forwardnesse of those who so peremptorily admit the arbitrement of sence and natural reason in mysteries of Religion The 1st is that submission of Dr. Tailours in Real Presence p. 240. after he had numbred up many apparent contradictions not only in respect of a natural but as he saith of an absolute possibility of Transubstantiation from p. 207. to 237. Yet saith he Let it appear that God hath affirmed Transubstantiation and I for my part will burn all my Arguments against it and make publick amends All my Arguments i. of apparent contradictions and absolute impossibilities And p. 237. To this objection that we believe the doctrine of the Trinity and of the Incarnation of our Saviours being born of a pure Virgin c. clauso utero and of the Resurrection with identity of bodies in which the Socinians find absurdities and contradictions notwithstanding seeming impossibilities and therfore why not Transubstantiation He answers That if there were as plain Revelation of Transubstantiation as of the other then this Argument were good and if it were possible for a thousand times more Arguments to be brought against Transubstantiation yet saith he we are to believe the Revelation in despight of them all Now I pray you observe that none can believe a thing true upon what motive soever which he first knows certainly to be false or which is all one certainly to contradict or to be not naturally but absolutely impossible which therefore it is strange that Dr. Tailour affirms himself to know concerning Transubstantiation ‖ p 107 236. For these we say are not verifiable by a divine power and therefore here I may say should divine power declare a Truth it would transcend it self Again in Liberty of Prophecy § 20. n. 16. he saith ' Those who believe the Trinity in all those Niceties of Explications which are in the School and which now adays pass for the Doctrine of the Church believe them with as much violence to the Principles of Natural and Supernatural Philosophy as can be imagined to be in the point of Transubstantiation Yet I suppose himself denies no doctrine about the Trinity that is commonly delivered in the Schools The next is that grave admonition of that learned and moderate Prelate Bishop Forbes Admodum periculosè saith he nimis audacter negant multi Protestantes Deum posse panem substantialiter in Corpus Domini convertere Multa enim potest Deus omnipotens facere supra captum omnium hominum imo Angelorum Id quidem quod implicat contradictionem non posse fieri concedunt omnes sed quia in particulari nemini evidenter constat quae sit uniuscujusque rei essentia ac perinde quid implicet quid non implicet contradictionem magnae profectò temeritatis est propter caecae mentis nostrae imbecillitatem Deo limites praescribere praefractè negare omnipotentia sua illum hoc vel illud facere posse And p 395. Certè haud pauca saith he credimus omnes quae si ratio humana consulatur non minus impossibilia esse contradictionem manifestam implicare videntur quam ipsa Transubstantiatio instancing there in the doctrine of the Resurrection of the same numerical Body And he goes on p. 388. ' Placet nobis judicium Theologorum Wirtembergicorum in confessione suâ Anno 1552. Consilio Tridentino proposita Vid. Harmonia Confess cap. de Eucharistiâ Credimus inquiunt Omnipotentiam Dei tantam esse ut possit in Eucharistiâ substantiam panis vini vel annihilare vel in Corpus
THE GUIDE IN CONTROVERSIES Or A Rational Account Of the Doctrine of ROMAN-CATHOLICKS Concerning the Ecclesiastical Guide in Controversies of Religion Reflecting on the later Writings of Protestants particularly of Archbishop Lawd and Mr. Stillingfleet on this Subject By R. H. 1. Pet. 3.15 Parati semper ad satisfactionem omni poscenti vos rationem 2. Cor. 6.8 Per Infamiam bonam Famam ut Seductores Veraces Printed in the Year MDCLXVII The Preface to the Reader AFter the sad effects of discord and quarrels in Religion so long experienced and End of such Controversies cannot but be by all pious Christians most passionately desired And an end of them if it may be by an Infallible or unerring decision of those necessary That a Writing also if clear and free from any ambiguity in its sence may decide these is confessed by all For if words written cannot neither can words spoken since nothing can be said but what may be recorded and granted also that such Writing doth decide them infallibly if it be the Holy Scripture But it appears that the sence of Holy Scripture is not in all Controversies that are thought necessary to be determined so clear but that it is called in question and disputed by considerable Parties For the ending of which therefore that God hath left another living Guide his Church or the Ecclesiastical Governors thereof which is in all Ages in the exposition of Holy Scripture and the decision of these Controversies as to Necessaries Infallible from other Sects easily discerned in its sentence easily Vnderstood is in these Discourses pretended to be proved And learned Protestants also shewed to maintain those Principles from which it seems rationally consequent Any such living Infallible Guide Protestants strongly deny and oppose And hereby if indeed there be such a Guide 1st incurr great peril as to their Salvation By denying a due obedience and Submission of Judgment to its Authority and Definitions And by deserting its Communion as not to be enjoyed on other termes And 2ly become unsettled and of a various judgment in several points of Religion of great concernment and daily subdividing into more Sects Their many objections therefore and difficulties urged against the Being of any such Guid are here considered and replyed to Especially those occurring in the writings of their later Divines Arch Bp. Lawd Bp. Bramhall Dr. Hammond Dr Ferne Mr. Chillingworth Mr. Stillingfleet and others Whose Art and diligence hath been so great in fighting against their own Happiness if I may so say and in hindring Themselves and others with all imaginable arguments from returning into the Unity of the Catholick Church and Faith that there seemes nothing left out or neglected by them that can hereafter be said new in their in their Defence Of which objections whether any of moment and pertinent to the matter in hand are here concealed or of those mentioned any not fully satisfied is left to the equal Reader 's Judgment The Author though conscious of his weaknes yet confident of the Cause and presuming so necessary a Truth to have so much advantage over Error as that it needeth not the very sharpest wit and exactest Judgment to vindicate and maintain it hath taken in hand this task in the long silence of many other more able Workmen that he might give satisfaction to some persons who seem with great indifferency to desire it and that the Adversary in having the last Word might not also to some weaker judgments seem to have the best Cause And to this end He hath also wholly applyed himself herein to the language and expressions of Protestants used in this Controversie and indeavored to follow their Motion to the smalest Particulars and last Retraits and hath built a good part of his discourse on their own Concessions as more prevalent with such Readers and those materials which their own writings afford advantagious to Truth and the present design Recommending this most important affair to the Protestant Readers most serious consideration As which if what is promised here be made good will possess Him of a much more true and solid Satisfaction and Tranquility of minde than his former Principles could possibly afford Him 1 * Whilst now he discernes himself contrary to what he before imagined guarded in his way to heaven with a double Guide unfailable The Holy Scriptures as what points they are clear And next the Holy Church in what they seem obscure into whose judgment and sentence he safely resolves all his former Scruples and anxieties concerning such Texts wherein a mistake is any way dangerous * Whilst now by a new and holier way of mortifying his own judgment instead of confuting another's and especially that of Superiors and of subduing his passions †St. August De Serm. Dom. in Monte 1. l. 3 c. On Beati pauoeres spiritu Oportet animam se mitem praebere pietate ne id quod imperitis videtur absurdum vituperare audeat pervicacibus concertationibus effiâ—iatur indocilis instead of enriching his intellect and seeking the possession of Truth by humility and obedience instead of Science and Argument he becomes fixed and setled in most of those Controversies as already stated by this Guide which still entangle and perplex others The light of his own Reason first serving him so far as to the discovery of that Guide a discovery wherein the divine providence hath left so clear and evident that a sincere and unbiased quest cannot miscarry to whom once found out he is afterward for all other things I mean that are prescribed by this Guide to subject and resigne it * Whilst now he renders himself one of those Babes to whom God by these Spiritual Fathers in all simplicity believed by him reveales what things are hid from the self-wise and prudent who are still standing upon their Guard with Pythagoras his 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and the Jewe's Quomodo Jo. 6.52 in their mouths missing of Truth where Authority and Tradition teach it out of too much wariness to be deceived * Whilst now as Mary at our Lord's so he meekly sits at his Church's feet and heareth her words when as those others whom he hath left full of learned cares from their youth like St. Austine when a Manichee how and where to finde Truth taught to believe no side to search and rifle all are stating all their life long every Controversie a new to themselves one on this manner another on that examining all pretended Foundations whether solidly laid For where say they may not an Humane Testimony deceive them even from the more principal The essential Vnity of the Trinity The Divinity and Eternity of Christ and of the Holy Ghost the Vhiquity of Gods essence and his Absolute Praescience the number and right use of the Sacraments The Commission of the Churches Hierarchy and Bishops their just authority and from whom they hold it for in all these they finde acute Divines calling on their impartiall
Interests he is well enough content that the prime Patriarch summon it and then upon this conceded I think I may add as evident from what is said before § 35. n. 2. that the same Patriarch may both appoint some place of meeting and also such Council met divulge and upon spiritual Censures require to be observed its Decrees concerning matters meerly spiritual whether mean-while the secular Powers favour or frown I say appoint some place which place since it must be within the Dominions and under the Power of some particular Prince and farther distant from some particular Churches than others it cannot be expected that it shall ever be so fitly chosen as equally to serve all Interests or remedy all Inconveniences and therefore supposing free access free proposal and voting for all Prelates that come the post-acceptation must make amends for the necessity of many Prelat's or also Church's absence Things thus far conceded by him concerning General Councils §. 36. n. 4. that which I have chiefly to except against is this 1st In his reckoning up the Clergy of the Roman Graecian Armenian Abyssine Russian Protestant Churches as constituting the entire body of such a general Council and affirming that the rest of them are a body three times greater than the Roman including the Western Churches joined with it ‖ See before § 35. he seems much to miscount For 1st Several of the Protestant Churches viz. so many as have deposed Bishops and constituted a Presbyterial Government for any thing I can see are very clearly concluded by Dr. Hammond and Dr. Ferne to be Schismaticks and that from and against their Spiritual Superiours ‖ See Disc 2. and that from and against their Spiritual Superiours § 24. n. 2. which Schisme excludes them from being true Members of the Church Catholick or having place in her General Councils especially since their Clergy also are no Bishops See Bishop Bramhall Vindic. of the Church of England p. 9. opposing Catholick and Schismatical as he doth elsewhere Catholick and Heretical But then as for the Bishops of other Protestant Churches neither can they escape the same imputation of Schisme by the same Dr. Hammonds Concession if those Councils mentioned below § 50. n. 2. whose Authority and Decrees they have rejected be truly their Superiours nor yet Heresie in the Catholick account or perhaps in Bishop Bramhall's considering what he saith Vindic. of the Church of England p. 27. quoted before § 36. and Schism Guarded p. 352. if any of these Councils be Legally General 2. Next As for several of those Eastern and Southern Churches that are brought in by the Bishop to enlarge the Church Catholick in comparison of the Roman Catholick §. 36. n. 5. they are a Mass of many several Sects of which see what is said more at large in Disc 3. § 1.76 c. such as after the Council of Chalcedon some sooner some later deserting their former Patriarch have since ranged themselves under several Patriarchs of their own residing in several Cities of the East the different Sects having set up in later times without any Conciliar Authority acting in it no less than seven or eight Independent Patriarchs They stand divided both from the Latine and Greek Church and also from one another in several Tenents concerning our Lord's Person Natures and Wills many of those dispersed in the more Eastern parts Assyria Mesopotamia c. suspected as Dr. Field ‖ Of the Church p. 62. acknowledgeth of Nestorianisme somwhat qualified many of the Southern as the Egyprians or Cophtites Ethiopians or Abyssines as to their Religion dependent on the former suspected as the same Dr. Field relateth ‖ Ib. p. 64 66 of Eutychianisme or rather of Dioscorism who was Patriarch of Alexandria and condemned in the Council of Chalcedon divers of them also amongst other extravagant Rites retaining Circumcision If this then be true which this Doctor relates though they be not perfect Eutychians and Nestorians in their Opinions yet such they are as do transgress against the Faith and Definitions of the third and fourth General Council the later of which Councils the greatest body of them expresly rejects See Dr. Field p. 70 71. No reason then can Bp. Bramhall have to admit these to a Suffrage in a Catholick General Council And if it be said ‖ See Dr. Field l. 3. c. 5. that most of them in such illiterate Regions are only through invincible ignorance material not formal Hereticks and therefore are not so unmercifully to be cut off from the Catholick Church it is to be remembred that we speak not here of cutting off either them or also Protestants so many as are invincibly ignorant from being internally still members of the Church and of the Body of Christ and possibly capable of salvation but of their having externally no right being involved in such Tenents to officiate in the Government of the Church or vote in its Councils from which Councils in expelling Hereticks the Church can only look to the external profession thereof and to which suppose a Material Heretick admitted his ignorance would be as to voting as much the bane of Truth there as the formal Hereticks pertinacy But 3 ly were they never so good Catholicks §. 36. n. 6. yet their Body and bulk taking in the Greek Church also as for those residing in the Turks dominions is far from being so considerably great as it is made Where especially for the former Prelacy the oppression is so great these Dignities so set to sale and their means and revenue so alienated and most of the Metropolies in Asia so ruin'd as that the bare title only now descending of many of the Ancient Sees is neglected and the succession in them ceased And though the territory is much vaster yet it may reasonably be presumed that abstracting those which in these parts are adherents to the Roman Communion as the Marointes a long time have been there are more Canonical Prelates and perhaps Christians in some small part of Europe than there are throughout all Turky where also the chief Supporters of the Christian-Religion are mostly Regulars and Monks no welcom Colleagues for the Protestants to join with ‖ See Brerewoods Inquiries 10. c. Botero Relat Vniversal Rel. del Gr. Turco The chief and most united Body of these Eastern Christians is in Greece which Boterus but long ago conjectured might make up two thirds of the inhabitants there And as for those more remote divers of them by the diligent missions of several Religious Orders of the Roman Profession out of Europe into those parts who by the Merchants help procure houses of constant residence there have been from time to time reduced to the Unity of the Roman faith and communion as appears in the relation of these Missions See Spondan Annal. A. D. 1616. 8. and Dr. Field p. 63. what hath hapned in the more Eastern Churches since A. D. 1550. And as their number
carnem ejus verè esse cibum non habere vitam nisi qui carnemallam manducaverit c. § 9. Quae omnia non posse aliter effici intelligimus quin totus Christus spiritu corpore nobis adhaereat So Dr. Tailor Real Presence p. 288. pronounceth Anathema to those who do not confess the Eucharist to be the flesh of our Saviour which flesh suffered for us And p. 5. expounds spiritual Presence put in the Title of his Book only to exclude the Corporal and natural manner not spiritual therefore so as to exclude Corpus Domini but only the corporal or natural manner of that body now by excluding the natural manner is not meant surely the exclusion of Nature or the thing it self For then to say a thing is there not after a natural manner were as much as to say the thing is not there but the exclusion of those Properties which usually accompany Nature or the thing And p. 12. he saith When the word Real Presence is denied by some Protestants it is taken for Natural Presence which Natural Presence he well knows the Roman Church also denies and not for Presence in rei veritate And thus Mr. Hooker l. 5. § 67. p. 357. Wherefore should the world contìnue still distracted and rent with so manifold contentions when there remaineth now no controversie saving only about the Subject where Christ is Nor doth any thing rest doubtful in this but whether when the Sacrament is administred Christ be whole within man only or else his Body and Bloud be also externally seated in the very consecrated Elements themselves And p. 359. His Body and his Bloud saith he are in that very subject whereunto they minister life not only by effect and operation even as the Influence c. See also Bishop Andrews Resp ad Apol. Bell. c. 1. p. 11. Nobis vobiscum de objecto convenit de mâ—do lis omnis est c. Praesentiam inquam credimus nec minus quam vos veram De modo Praesentiae nil temerè definimus non magis quam in Christi incarnatione c. § 67 Would not one think here that touching the Substantial and may not I say corporal so it be understood with Dr. Tailor not after the natural manner of bodies Presence of Christ's Body in the Eucharist all were agreed And the question only as Hooker whether it be to and within the Receiver only or also externally seated in the consecrated Elements And then though not the deceptions of sence concerning the Bread yet which is much harder the many contradictions about the same Body or Entity if you will its being at once in diverse places its being deprived of its dimensions c. do not they press in to disturb the Protestant's belief in this matter as well as the Catholick's Surely some such thing was considered by the English Synod in Queen Elizabeth's days 1562. when they both cast out of the 28th of the former Articles of Religion made in the end of King Edward's Reign these words following Cum humanae Naturae veritas requirat ut unius ejusdemque hominis corpus in multis locis simul esse non possit sed in uno aliquo definito loco esse oporteat idcirco Christi Corpus in multis diversis locis eodem tempore praesens esse non potest Et quoniam ut tradunt Sacrae Literae Christus in Coelum fuit sublatus ibi usque ad finem saeculi est permansurus non debet quisquam fidelium carnis ejus sanguinis realem praesentiam in Eucharistiâ vel credere vel profiteri And also cast out a Rubrick or Declaration to the same purpose inserted in King Edward's 2d. Common-Prayer-Book which gives this Reason why no Adoration ought to be done to any real and essential Presence of Christ's natural Flesh and Bloud in the Eucharist because the natural Body and Bloud of our Saviour Christ are in Heaven and not there it being against the truth of Christ's Natural Body to be at one time in more places than one though I believe to the great grief and dislike of many of the true Sons of this Church the same Rubrick hath gotten in again into the late English Liturgy But the other clause is not hitherto readmitted into the Article § 68 And if there were not also some seeming Absurdities and Contradictions in these Protestant's stating of the Real Presence why call they the manner ineffable full of Miracles and not apprehensible by reason Ego hoc Mysterium saith Calvin ‖ Instit l. 4. c. 17.24 minime rationis humanae modo metior vel naturae legibus sub jicio Humanae rationi minime placebit that which he affirmes penetrare ad nos Christi carnem ut nobis sit alimentum Dicimus Christum tam externo Symbolo quam Spiritu suo ad nos descenderd ut verè substantia carnis suae animas nostras vivificet In his paucis verbis qui non sentit multa subesse miracula plusquam stupidus est quando nihil magis incredibile quam res toto coeli terrea spatio dissitas ac remotas in tanta locorum distantiâ non tantùm conjungi sed uniri ut alimentum percipiant animae ex carne Christi And § 32. Porrò de mâ—do si quis me interroget fateri non pudebit sublimius esse arcanum quà m ut vel meo ingenio comprehendi vel enarrari verbis queat And § 25. Captivas tenemus mentes nostras ne verbulo duntaxat obstreper ac humiliamus ne insurgere audeant And in his Confession of Faith ‖ Lib. Epl p. 572. Not fatemur omnino rationem quâ cum Christo communicanus ad miraculum referendam esse Therefore as these Protestants charge the Roman Transubstantiation with contradictions absurdities impossibilities so do the Zuinglians Remonstrants Socinians as freely charge their Real Presence See the Remonstrant's Apology c. 23. who thus dispute against them Quomodo enim non credibile sed possibile esse imo quomodo non impossibile adeoque absurdum videri ' debet Corpus Christi quod est manet in Coelis non alibi vere communicari nobis qui in terrâ sumus non alibi ita ut nobis cedat in cibum And afterward p. 251. they'say Omnia ista non modò obscura incomprehensibilia esse sed manifestè etiam inse continere tum vanitatem tum absurditatem Et ineffabilia illa mysteria humanam seu curiositatem seu superstitionem in hoc tam simplici tam plano a nullo non ingenio facile perceptibili ritu finxisse potius quà m reperisse qui postquam a simplici Scripturae phrasi semel discesserunt admirationibus inexhaustis se pascere malunt quà m clarâ veritatis scientiâ And the Socinians accuse this Opinion of the Calvinists and English Church ‖ Volkel l â— c. 22 Eam cum sanae mentis ratione pugnare quae dictat fieri
non posse ut Christi Corpus tanto intervalio a nobis disjunctum in coenâ revera comedamus Idcirco ille ipse qui sententiae istius author est fatetur se hoc Mysterium nec mente percipere nec liguâ explicare posse And thus also Rivet ‖ Animad in Grot. p. 85. against it Si Corpus Christi non est in Sacramento quantitativè i. e. corporally or secundum modum corporis non est omnino quia Corpus Christi ubicunque est quantum est aut non est Corpus Now if it be said here that though the Real Presence of Protestants to the worthy Receiver admits indeed some seeming contradictions yet doth the Roman Real Presence to the Symboles suâ—â—er many more 1st I answer that a Tenent involving one true contradiction is as far removed from Truth as that which involves a hundred And 2 ly That I know no just bounds but that if ineffable incomprehensible may be used for salving three or four seeming impossibilities so it may be for forty § 69 As for the Fears suggested by some ‖ Still p. 117. 567. Tillots p. 275 That if the judgment of all mens sences is not to be relied on in the matter of the Eucharist then it will be impossible to give any satisfactory account of the grand Foundations of Christian Faith For what assurance can be had of any Miracles c Why not the Apostles be deceived in Christ's being risen from the grave For might it not be an invisible Spirit under the Accidents of Christ's Body And since hearing may fail as well as sight may not we thus question all Church-Tradition That nothing is to be admitted by us as certain which admitted we can be certain of nothing c. As for such Tragical Consequences I say they need not much terrifie us § 70 For 1st If it be not true in the Eucharist I suppose it is in another instance that under the outward accidents and appearances to the sences of one body was contained the substance or presence of another viz. under the external appearance of men the persons of Angels so that the sences of all men that looked upon them were actually mistaken Gen. 18.19 And so would so many more as had beheld them Doth it follow now from this deception of Sence or Reason here which cannot be denied that after this it is impossible to give any satisfactory account of the grand Foundations of Christian Faith or that any assurance can be had of Miracles c. Or lastly That we can be thence-forward certain of nothing If not how follows it from the like supernatural Operation supposed in the Eucharist An Argument drawn from our Sences is not from any of these supernatural effects deceiving sence weakned for proving any Truth save only in so many Particulars wherein we have or pretend divine Revelation concerning such deception of our sence If then there be such Divine Revelation for a deception of sence or natural reason in the Eucharist I hope all will see these aggravating consequences to be vain But 2ly If this Revelation be mistaken yet cannot that deception of sence which is only believed upon its supposal be from hence justly extended to any other thing where this is not supposed So that whether such Revelation be or be not Catholicks and the truth in such hasty and unweighed Argumentations are much wronged This from § 62. I have annexed though somwhat besides the design of this Discourse that the reluctances of our Sence or Natural Reason may do no prejudice to our Faith and humble submission in this great Mystery to the Traditions of the Church and Definitions of Councils The End of the first Discourse THE SECOND DISCOURSE Proceeding upon the Concessions of Learned Protestants That the Pastors of the Church some or other in all Ages do infallibly guide their Subjects in Necessaries to search which in any Division of these Pastors are those to whom Christians ought to adhere and yeild their Obedience THE CONTENTS CHAP. 1. PRotestants grant 1st That there is at this present an One Holy Catholick and Apostolick Church § 1. 2ly That the present Pastors and Governors thereof have authority to decide Controversies § 2. 3ly That these Governors some or other of them shall never err or miss-guide Christians at least in absolute Necessaries to Salvation § 3. 4ly That they and the Church governed by them stand always distinct from Heretical or Schismatical Congregations § 5. Chap. 2. Catholicks further affirm 5ly That if these Pastors guide unerringly in Necessaries the People are also to learn from them what or how many Points are necessary so far as the knowledge thereof is necessary to them § 6. 6ly Again That the Necessaries wherein these Ecclesiastical Governors are infallible Guides ought not to be confined to some few points absolutely necessary but extended to all such points of Faith as are very beneficial to Salvation § 9. 7ly Concerning the exact distinguishing of necessaries from non-necessaries 1. That there seems no necessity that the Church guides should be enabled exactly to distinguish them § 12. 2. That they may infallibly guide in them though not infallibly distinguish them § 14. 3. That they guiding infallibly in all necessaries and no distinction of these made ought to be believed in all points they propose except an infallible certainty can be shewed of the contrary § 15. 4. That these Governors do distinguish and do propose as such all those more necessary points which it is requisite for Christians with a more particular explicite Faith to believ § 17. 8. That Christians submitting their judgment to the present Church-Governors in deciding all necessary matters of Faith ought also to submit it to them in declaring the sence of the Fathers or Definitions of Councils and former Church concerning the same Matters § 19. 9ly That supposing these Guides to err in some of their Decisions yet their Subjects by the concession of Learned Protestants ought to yield the Obedience either of silence or also of assent to them in all such points whereof they cannot demonstratively prove the contrary § 20. 10. From whence it follows that none may adhere to any new Guides but only so many as can demonstrate the Errors of the former § 21. Chap. 3. 11. Granted by all that these Church-Governors may teach diversly and some of them more or fewer may become erroneous in Necessaries and miss-guide Christians in them § 22. 12. In such dissenting therefore that there must be some Rule for Christians which Guides they ought to follow and that this is and rationally can be no other than in these Judges subordinate dissenting to adhere to the Superior in those of the same Order and Dignity dissenting to the major part § 23. Where Of the Major part concluding the Whole in the ancient Councils § 25. n. 2. And Of the Defection of the Church-Prelacy in the time of Arrianisme § 26. n. 2. 13. That
due to this much greater though some smaller part dissenting and that an Opposition of their definitions in matter of faith becomes heresie and a separation from their Communion upon their requiring an approbation of and conformity to such their decrees becomes Schism if an opposition to or separation from the whole be so § 28 14. As for that way or those marks that are given usually by Protestants ‖ See Calv. Instit l. 4 c. 1. §. 9. by which Christians are to discern Prop. 14. in any division of them the Society of the true Church Guides whether these happen to be more or fewer of a higher or lower rank than the other as they say somtimes they may be the One somtimes the other from the false namely these two 1 The right teaching of the Christian doctrine 2 And right Administration of the Sacraments 1st If any are directed to finde out by these marks those Guides not only whose Communion they ought to joyn with but from whose judgment they ought to learn which is the same true Christian doctrine and which the right administration of the Sacraments i.e. are by those marks first known to find out those persons by whom they may come to know these marks as for example if one that seeks a Guide to direct him what he is to believe in the Controversie of the Consubstantiality of God the Son with the Father is first to try if Consubstantiality be true and then to chuse him for his Guide in this point that holds it The very Proposal of this way seems a sufficient confutation of it For what is this but to decide that first themselves for the decision of which they seek to anothers judgment And there is no question but after this they will in a search pitch on a Judge that decides as they do but then this is seeking for a Confederate for a Companion not seeking for a Guide for a Governour When they can state the true doctrine themselves their search for a Guide to state it is at an end and they may then search rather to whom to teach it than of whom to learn it T is granted indeed §. 29. n. 1. supposing the marks above-named were only to be found among the right Church-Guides which is not so ‖ See §. 29 n. 2. that these right Guides may be discerned from false by this mark i.e. by the truth of that doctrine which they reach by so many as can attain the certain knowledge of this true doctrine by some other means or way as by the Holy Scriptures Fathers c. Nor is private mens trying the truth of the Doctrine of these differing Guides by these denied here to be lawful nor denied that the Proposal of such a trial to the People may by the true Guides even by the Apostles be made use of with good success because the Scriptures c. may evidence to some persons intelligent in some Controversies less difficult the truth of those Doctrines which some of the learned out of great passion or interest may gainsay But then for all such points wherein a private man's trial by Scripture is very liable to mistake and the sense thereof not clear unto him as no private person hath reason to think it clear in such points of Controversie wherein the Church-Guides examining the same Scriptures yet do differ among themselves and perhaps the major part of them from him here he must necessarily attain the knowledge of his right Guide by some other Marks prescribed him for that purpose and not by the truth of that doctrine or clearness of those Scriptures for instruction in the truth or sence of which he seeks such a Guide Unsound therefore is that Position of Mr. Stillingfleet's Rat. Account p. 7. That of necessity the Rule I suppose he means and by it the Truth of Faith and Doctrine must be certainly known before ever any one can with safety depend upon the judgment of any Church And very infirm that arguing of his and so all that he afterward builds upon it where he deduceth from this Proposition conceded That a Church which hath erred cannot be relied on in matter of Religion therefore men must be satisfied whâ—ther a Church hath erred or no before they can judge whether she may be relied oâ— or no for though this be allowed here that such Church as may be relied on hath amongst other properties or sure marks this for one that she doth not or cannot err yet many other Mark or Properties she may have by which men may be assured she may be relied on who are not first able to discern or prove all her Doctrines for truth or demonstrate her not erring Such arguing is much-what like to this That Body which casts no light cannot be fire therefore a man must first be satisfied whether such a body gives light before he can judge whether it be fire Not so because one blind and not seeing the light at all yet may certainly know it is fire by another property by its scorching Heat Or like this No Book than contains any false Proposition in it can be the Book of Holy Scripture therefore men must be satisfied whether such Book contain any false Proposition in it or no before they can judge whether it be the Book of Holy Scripture or no. Not so for men ordinarily by another way viz. universal Tradition become assured that such Book is Holy Scripture and thence collect that it contains nothing in it contradictory or false and so it is for the true Church or our true Guide that though she always conserveth Truth yet men come to know her by another way and of her first known afterward learn that truth which she conserveth But 2ly These Protestant Marks viz. Truth of Christian doctrine and right Administration of Sacraments §. 29. n. 2. if we could attain a certain knowledge of them another way and needed not to learn them from the Church yet are no infallible Mark of that Catholick Body and Society to which Christians may securely adhere and rank themselves in its Communion because such Body when entirely professing the Christian Faith yet still may be Schismatical and some way guilty of dissolving the Christian Vnity as Dr. Field amongst others freely concedes Who ‖ Of the Ch. l 2. c. 2. p. 31. 33. therefore to make up as he saith the Notes of the true Catholick Church absolute full and perfect and generally diginguishing this Church from all other Societies adds to these two the entire profession of saving Faith and the right use of Sacraments a third Mark viz. an Union or connexion of men in this Profession and use of these Sacraments Under lawful Pastors and Guides appointed and authorized to direct and lead them in the happy ways of eternal Salvation Which Pastors lawfully authorized he ‖ l. 1. c. 14. grants those not to be who though they have power of Order yet have no power of
it is very plausible and much used especially against Church-authority so is it very fallacious by which the more Orthodox party of Protestants also have suffered much from several Sects Whenas it cannot be denied that there are many things granted most true and of most high concernment which are for those excellent ends of Gods infinite wisdom which we cannot fully discern nor so clearly expressed there for preventing disputes as they might have bin Our Saviours Sermon made partly at least concerning the Eucharist amply set down in the 6th of S. John and therefore perhaps mention of the Eucharist omitted afterward by that Evangelist in the Story of his passion was delivered by him in some expressions so obscure as that as St. Austin observes not only his enemies the blinded Jewes but his own disciples misunderstood it and some of them deserted him upon it calling it durus Sermo and yet saith that Father ‖ In Iohan. Tract 27. Sic oportebat ut diceretur quod non ab omnibus intelligeretur And what contentions and also persecutions think we might a declaration of the abrogation of Circumcision and the Mosaical Ceremonies have saved in the Apostles times if it had been any where delivered expresly by our Lord who well foresaw those troubles in the Gospel he preached Or what contentions would the Athanasian Creed have prevented in the times that followed had it been written verbatim in one of S. Pauls Epistles or had the points of modern Controversie bin set down there in as expresse termes as they are in a Protestant Catechism in the 39. Articles or in the Council of Trent 1 Cor. 1.23 25. If we will give humane wisdom in respect of which God's Wisdom is often thought foolishnesse liberty to devise what is best or fittest had it not bin much more to purpose for Conversion of the Iews to Christianity that our Lord upon his Resurrection should have openly manifested himself to all the Nation at that great Festival on the top of the Temple with a Trophee of victory in his hands And for the salvation of mankind God-willing that all should be saved ‖ p. 103. had it not bin better to have made the divel at first close prisoner 1 Tim. 2.4 and prevented the temptation of Eve and fall of Adam Hear Mr. Chillingworth himself where it concerned him reprove the folly of such arguing In humane reason saith he it were incomparably more fit and useful for the decision of Controversies that the Apostles Successors should do miracles will you now conclude they have the Gift of doing miracles It had been most requisite one would think that the Copies of the Bibles should have bin preserved free from variety of reading which makes men very uncertain in many places which is the Word of God and which is the error and presumption of man and yet we see God hath not thought fit so to provide for us Who can conceive but that an Apostolick Interpretation of all the difficult places of Scripture would have bin strangely beneficial to the Church especially there being such danger in mistaking the sence of them as is by you pretended c. And yet we see God hath not so ordered the matter Thus Mr. Chillingworth Supposing then that a General Council or the Bishop of the prime Apostolick See were constituted by God the Supreme and Final Judge of Controversies in Religion and of all Appeals from inferior Ecclesiastical Courts yet Gods wisdom might think meet not to register this in these or the like short and clear expressions in Scripture for many excellent reasons tending to the manifestation of his greater glory who makes darknesse as well as light to bring light out of darknesse and leaves many arguments of contradiction to humane reason See Disc ◠§ 16. the more to shew the power of the operation of his grace who discloseth the things belonging to our salvation somtimes with more somtimes with lesse evidence yet this always sufficient for the necessary preserving of truth on the one side and for the exercise and greater merit of faith on the other But 2ly to come closer to the matter in hand God hath in the Scriptures not only left a General Command of following their Guides § 47. n. 3. but also sufficiently directed Christians to know in any division of these Ecclesiastical Guides 2. ‖ See before which are those they ought to follow in that he ‖ 46. n. 3. being in all things the Author not of confusion but of order and peace ‖ 1 Cor. 14 33 hath not left these Guides in the Church without a due subordination from the very first and Apostolical times and also hath authorized the Church-Governors to make afterwards such wholesom laws for the Regency peace and unity thereof as do justly and unappealably oblige all inferiors and subjects Hence there is not wanting both Precept and Example sufficient both in the Holy Scriptures and primitive Church-constitutions and practice whereby the inferior Clergy are subjected to the Superior and a part unto the whole Body i.e. one or a few parts to the many parts or to all the rest of the Body and by this also is our obedience directed whenever an inferior and a Superior a part and the whole differ Nor can any justly raise a dispute in this divided Body whom they should obey when both the Number and Primacy are unequal See for these things what is said before Prop. 12. § 23. And 1. Disc § 15. Therefore In a division between any single Guide and that Corporation of them whereof he is a member this body justly claims both the Laicks and that Guide's obedience As the decree of the whole in the Acts Act. 5. was to be obeyed by the Antiochians before the orders of one or a few members of it that were zealous of the Law though these should have bin the proper Pastors and Guides of the Church of Antioch because of the subordination of these Pastors to the other supreme Representativé of the Church And again in any great division hapning in this Body it self our obedience follows the fuller Body of them still which in respect of the rest being fewer bears the name of the whole Especially when the supremest Ecclesiastical Governor that is upon earth the chief President of this Body joynes with it upon which terme only obedience to these Guides is demanded feom those of the Reformation Thus it is before that any be excluded by heresie from this Body But when any in its former lawful Councils are so cut off then our obedience follows the fuller Body of them these other how numerous soever afterward excepted Now this fuller Body at this day joined with the chief Pastor of Christs Sheep here on earth § 48 if any one seeketh after for his safe conduct to future happinesse he cannot but discern it from all other Christian Societies that pretend to guide him And this found
time and 3 persons Yet 1 doth he so expound this universal Testimony ‖ See ib. n. 2.8.10 as to signifie only the consent of the most in most places in all or most times For else saith he †§. 5. n. 2. there would be no Hereticks at any time in the World Viz. If those only should be held such necessary Articles of our saith which all none excepted in all times do hold And again 2 he makes use of the Churches Councils for convincing Heresies against this faith Viz. of the four 1st General Councils saying That all the parts of this faith are compleatly comprehended in the Scriptures as explained by the Writers of the three first ages and definitions of the â—our first Councils so that in sum he who imbraceth all the Traditional Doctrines proposed by them embraceth all the necessary faith thus universally delivered which cannot come to the fifth age c. but through the fourth and third and so can be no Heretick See 7. § 6 7 8. n. His words there n. 7. are Of the Scriptures of the Creed and of those four Councils as the Repositories of all true Apostolical Tradition I suppose it very regular to affirm that the intire Body of the Catholick Faith is to be established and all Heresies convinced or else that there is no just reason that any Doctrine should be condemned as such And see what is cited out of him concerning these Councils before § 19. and of Heresie § 14. n. 10. But here since he admits Councils for convincing Heresie why rests he in the four first and why admits he not all Councils in whatever age that are of equal authority for the same discovery since many new errors against tradicive Faith may arise after the four first and the Church's later Councils accordingly may testifie and declare the same Faith as occasions are administred against them If it be said that what is traditive in any latter age wherein some later Council is held was so in the third or fourth and so all Heresie is sufficiently convinced by those ages then so were the Definitions of the four first Councils traditive in the first second or third age And therefore what need hath Dr. Hammond to add for conviction of Heresie these four first Councils which were held after the three first Centuries The sum is For convincing Heresie either the testification of all lawful General Councils is authentical or not that of the four first But if the Doctor allow all lawful General Councils to be so as something seems said by him to this purpose Here 's § 14. n. 1.2 Catholicks are at accord with him herein concerning the Nature and Trial of Heresie and the dispute only remains whether any of those Councils that have heretofore defined or testified any such Point of Faith traditive which is opposed by Protestants be such a lawful General Council Concerning which see in 1 Disc § 36. n. 3. c. § 50. n. 2. § 57. c. Thus Dr. Hammond restraining conviction of all Heresie within the time of the first Councils But Bishop Branhall ‖ In Reply to Bp. Chalced. c. 2. p. 102. seems to be yet more free I acknowledge saith he that a General Council may make that revealed Truth necessary to be believed by a Christian as a point of Faith which formerly was not necessary to be believed that is whensoever the Reasons and grounds produced by the Council or the authority of the Council which is and always ought to be very great with all sober discreet Christians do convince a man in his conscience of the truth of the Council's definition And in vindication of the Church of England p. 26. When inferiour Questions not Fundamental are once defined by a lawful General Council all Christians though they cannot assent in their judgements are obliged to passive obedience to possess their souls in Patience And they who shall oppose the authority and disturbe the peace of the Church deserve to be punished as Hereticks Here though the Bishop makes not the opposers of the Councills definition for the reason of opposing it Hereticks because he holds that no error but that which some way overthrowes a fundamental Truth can be Heretical and though in his holding that Councils may not prescribe what things are fundamental nor oblige any to assent to their judgment in what they do define further than their reasons convince them He as the rest leaves Hereticks undiscoverable yet he grants that all are to submit for non-contradiction to the determinations of L. G. Councils even in all inferiour points not fundamental and that the opposers deserve to be punished as Hereticks which if observed by Protestants would sufficiently keep the Churches peace and then concerning the past definitions of such Councils see what is argued with him in 1 Disc § 36. n. 3. c. This for Heresie § 55 12ly For Schism Neither do they enlarge it so far as Catholicks That any separation upon what cause soever from the external Communion of all particular former Churches or of our lawful Ecclesiastical Superiors or of the whole Church Catholick is schism but restrain it to a separation culpable or causless ‖ Chillingw p. 271. holding that some separation from them may not be so § 56 But they leave us here again in uncertainty between these Superiors and Inferiors which of them shall judge when such separation is causeless when otherwise and so uncertain of Schism or also they affirm that the Inferiors are to judge when their Superiors require unjust things as conditions of their Communion and so when a separation from them is lawful or culpable Of which thus Mr. Stillingfleet ‖ p. 292. Nothing can be more unreasonable than that the society imposing certain conditions of Communion should be judge whether those conditions be just and equitable or no And the same thing may thus be produced from other Protestant-Tenents For they hold that the whole Church is infallible only in absolute Necessaries or Fundamentals errable in other matters of faith that its Governors collected in their supâ—emest Councils may also enjoyne such errors as conditions of their Communion that these errors at least some of them may be certainly and demonstratively discernable by Inferiors and these complained of and not amended by Superiors that they may lawfully separate in the sence explained before § 20. from such Communion wherein these are imposed Here therefore inferiors judge when the separation is just when causless and upon this account surely no separation will ever be I do not say Schism but discovered to be Schism if the separatist is to Judge when it is so But if the Superiors are to Judge when a separation from them and from their definitions imposed is culpable or causeless it will either be always judged such which is the Catholicks Doctrine or such a granted-just cause will be removed by these Superiours and so there will be no
at last converted whether it I say now after a 150 years continuance hath made any progress sutable to such an effect as is the reducing of all Nations to its Profession or rather whether after it had made a sudden increase at 1 st as new things take most and infancy grows fastest it doth not seem already long ago to be past its full growth and now rather declining and withering and loosing ground in many places where it was formerly well rooted whilst that Antichrist which it promiseth to destroy acquires more strength and daily enlargeth his Dominions to which I may add * whether since protestancy is divided into so many Sects severed under so many differing secular Heads the Nations at length converted by them if they should be brought by some to the purity yet would not still in general want the Vnity of the Christian Faith But to return All this authority we find one present Body using now as the Catholick Church did anciently and among other things this Body also entitling it self the present Catholick Church So that if there be a Catholick Church still which stands invested with that authority that our Lord bestowed on it and which the former Church practised then seeing that all other Christian societies do renounce and not pretend at all to such an authority I mean the requiring from their Subjects an assent and submission of judgment to their decrees as infallible in all necessary faith declaring Hereticks those that oppose their Doctrines and Schismaticks that relinquish their Communion and question this other Church also for using it it follows that either this must be the sole Church-Catholick that thus bears witness to it self that it is so or that what ever Church besides pretends it self Catholick doth not exercise or own that just power and those priviledges with which our Lord hath endowed it We find further this present Church very vigilant and zealous in vindicating the honour and authority the customs the decrees of former Church and pretending what ever in truth it doth most strictly to follow its footsteps extolling the Fathers numbring allowing and challenging the Councils as if it thought them most advantagious on its side and carrying its self to this old Mother with such expressions of affection as if it only were her true daughter Therefore conjoyning the tradition of former Church interpreting Scripture together with the Text thereof for the steady guide of its proceedings in establishing truth and convincing Heresies And professing to handle things controverted ‖ Concil Trident Sess 18. Salv. Conduct Secundum sacram Scripturam Apostolorum traditiones probata Concilia Ecclesiae Catholicae consensum sanctorum Patrum authoritates We find it with the same Zeal celebrating an honourable Memory of the Fathers ancient Martyrs Confessors and Doctors in its publick Liturgies inserting therein both their Traditionary Comments on the Text of Scripture and an abridgement of their holy Lives there praising God for their pious Examples and provoking her present children to an emulation of their vertues whilst another Party in its pretending a Reformation to the Doctrine and Manners of the Primitive Church yet in its new Service expunged both the Lections taken out of these Fathers and the Narrative of their Lives We find it * retaining the same publick service of the Mass with the Catholick Church of former ages as its adversaries confess ‖ D◠Field p. 188. Chemnit Exam. Conc. Trid. part 2. de Canone Missae for this 1000. years i.e. from the times of S. Gregory if not without some small additions of something new yet without change of what was the former And * much resembling the visage of the ancient Church especially that after Constantine when by the more copious Writings of those flourishing times we come better to discern that Churches complexion in its Altars and a quotidian Sacrifice in its frequency of publick Assemblies and Devotions Solemn observance of Feasts Vigils and Fasts Gravity and Magnificence of its Ceremonies In its pretention of Miracles and extraordinary Gifts of the Holy Spirit in several of its Members in its high Veneration of the Celestial Favourites who stand in the presence of God and daily Communication by Commemorating the Saints departed with the Church triumphant and in the honour done to their Holy Relicks in its charitable Offices performed for those other more imperfect faithful Souls whose condition in the next world it conceives betterable by its prayers and oblations In its distinction of sins and use of its keys toward greater offenders In retirements from the world for a nearer converse with God and the freer exercise of Meditation and Devotion In its variety of Religious Orders Votaries and Fraternities In its advancing the observance of the Evangelical Councils its high esteem * of voluntary poverty i. e. relinquishing all particular propriety and enjoying only necessaries in Common * of virginity and continency and * of yeilding an undisputing obedience in licitis to all the Laws and commands of a Superiour In the single lives and sequestration from worldly incombrances of its Clergy obliged to a daily task of long Devotions and purity of conscience and corporal abstinence suitable to their attendance on the Altar and there daily or very frequently offering the Commemorative Sacrifice of our Lords all satisfactory Passion and comunicating his most precious Body and Blood In the like relations with those of all past ages concerning the eminent vertue shining in and divine favours bestowed on those holy persons who have lived in its Communion their great austerities and mortifications Exstafies Visions Predictions Miracles c. Which stories if they be all supposed lies and fictions and hypocrisies all I say or most of them for that some counterfeits will mingle themselves among truth there is no question yet such lyes are also found in all ages even from the Apostolical Times nor is the present age more guilty of them than the precedent as may be seen by comparing the Stories related by S. Austin ‖ De Civ Dei l. 22. c. 8. the Saints lives written by S. Jerome Gregory Nyssen Theodoret Severus Paulinus Palladius Gregory the Great Gregory of Tours Bede Bonaventure Bernard and other ancient Authors with the modern whilst all other Religions meanwhile have such a disparity to antiquity that in them no such things are at least fained But indeed did not many of these Stories contain a certain truth it cannot be imagined that so many persons reputed of great Sanctity and Devotion and several of them contemporary to those whose lives they recorded should have written them with so full a testimony to many things not as heard of others but seen by themselves Of the Roman Church and its adherents So persevering in the steps of Antiquity thus Grotius in the Preface to his Votum pro Pace giving account there of his studies in reading the Fathers Collegi saith he quae essent illa quae veterum testimonio
Church Where the Dr. seems to grant these two things That all that the Catholick Church declares against Heresie is grounded upon the Scripture and that all such as oppose her judgement are Hereticks but only he adds that they are not Hereticks properly or formally for this opposing the Church but for opposing the Scriptures Whilst therefore the formalis ratio of Heresie is disputed that all such are Hereticks seems granted And the same Dr. else here concludes thus ‖ p. 132. The mistaker will never prove that we oppose any Declaration of the Catholick Church he means such a Church as makes Declarations and that must be in her Councils and therefore he doth unjustly charge us with Heresie And again he saith †p. 103. Whatsoever opinion these ancient writers St. Austin Epiphanius and others conceived to be contrary to the common or approved opinion of Christians that they called an Heresie because it differed from the received opinion not because it opposed any formal Definition of the Church where in saying not because it opposed any Definition he means not only because For whilst that which differed from the received opinion of the Church was accounted an Heresie by them that which differed from a formal definition of the Church was so much more Something I find also for your better information in the learned Dr. Hammond †Titus 3.11 commenting on that notable Text in Titus A man that is an Heretick after the first and second admonition reject a Text implying contrary to your discourse Heresie discoverable and censurable by the Church where he explains 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 self condemned not to signifie a mans publick accusing or condemning his own doctrines or practices for that condemnation would rather be a motive to free one from the Churche's censures Nor 2ly to denote one that offends against conscience and though he knows he be in the wrong yet holds out in opposition to the Church for so none but Hypocrites would be Hereticks and he that stood out against the Doctrin of Christ and his Church in the purest times you may guesse whom he means should not be an Heretick and so no Heretick could possibly be admonished or censured by the Church for no man would acknowledge of himself that what he did was by him done against his own conscience the plea which you also here make for your self But to be an expression of his separation from and disobedience to the Church and so an evidence of the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 his being perverted and sinning wilfully and without excuse †See more Protestants cited to this purpose Disc 3. §. 19. § 26. What say you to this Soc. What these Authors say as you give their sence seems to me contrary to the Protestant Principles †See Dr. Potter p. 165.167 Dr. Hammond of Heresie § 7 n. 3 §. 9. n. 8 Des of L. Faukl c. 1. p. 23. See before Disc 3. §. 41 n. 1. and their own positions elswhere neither surely will Protestants tye themselves to this measure and trial of autocatacrisy For since they say That lawfull General Councils may erre in Fundamentals these Councils may also define or declare something Heresie that is not against a Fundamental and if so I though in this self-convinced that such is their Definition yet am most free from Heresie in my not assenting to it or if they err intolâ—erably in opposing it Again since Protestants say Councels may erre in distinguishing Fundamentals these Councels may erre also in discerning Heresie which is an error against a Fundamental from other errors that are against non-Fundamentals Again Whilst I cannot distinguish Fundamentals in their Definitions thus no Definition of a General Councel may be receded from by me for fear of my incurring Heresie a consequence which Protestants allow not Again Since Protestants affirm all Fundamentals plain in Scripture why should they place autocatacrisy or self-conviction in respect of the Declaration of the Church rather than of the Scripture But to requite your former quotations I will shew in plainer language the stating of Protestant Divines concerning autocatacrisy as to the Definitions of the Church under which my opinion also findes sufficient shelter We have no assurance at all saith Bishop Bramball †Reply to Chalced. p. 105. that all General Councils were and alwayes shall be so prudently managed and their proceedings alwayes so orderly and upright that we dare make all their sentences a sufficient conviction of all Christians which they are bound to believe under pain of damnation I add or under pain of Heresie And Ib. p. 102. I acknowledge saith he that a General Council may make that revealed truth necessary to be believed by a Christian as a point of Faith which formerly was not necessary to be believed that is whensoever the reasons and grounds of truth produced by the Council or the authority of the Council which is and alwayes ought to be very great with all sober discreet Christians do convince a man in his conscience of the truth of the Councils Definitions which truth I am as yet not convinced of neither from the reasons nor authority of the Council of Nice Or if you had rather have it out of Dr. Potter It is not the resisting saith he †p. 128. the voice or definitive sentence which makes an Heretick but an obstinate standing out against evident Scripture sufficiently cleared unto him And the Scripture may then be said to be sufficiently cleared when it is so opened that a good and teachable mind loving and seeking truth my conscience convinceth me not but that such I am cannot gainsay it Again †p. 129. It is possible saith he that the sentence of a Council or Church may be erroneous either because the opinion condemned is no Heresie or error against the Faith in it self considered or because the party so condemned is not sufficiently convinced in his understanding not clouded with prejudice ambition vain-glory or the like passion that it is an error one of these I account my selfe Or out of Dr. Hammond †Heresie p. 114. It must be lawful for the Church of God any Church or any Christian upon the Drs. reason as well as for the Bishop of Rome to inquire whether the Decrees of an universal Council have been agreeable to Apostolical Tradition or no and if they be found otherwise to reject them out or not to receive them into their beliefe And then still it is the matter of the Decrees and the Apostolicalness of them and the force of the testification whereby they are approved and acknowledged to be such which gives the authority to the Council and nothing else is sufficient where that is not to be found And elsewhere he both denies in General an Infallibility of Councils †Se before Disc 1 §. 6. and grounds the Reverence due to the Four first Councils on their setting down and convincing the truth