God ând one man and they were one and had in al one order being and nature For God was all that the man wâs and the man was âl that God was c. Thus man became God at the beginning For God looking vpon man looked vpon him self as the same cleerânes of his liuing Godhead Also the man looked vpon his God his gentle cleane and vnspotted manhode in all fulcomenes in all honesty and fairenes in all fashion and being according to the same Godhead And this was also all one God and the man c. God gaue the man in the beginning none other Lawes Institutions Iudgements nor Commaundements but to liue with ioy naked or vncouered before him and to looke vpon all the works of God for good and not for euil should neuer tast or féele euill death or condemnation But as the man turned âway the eyes of his flesh from his âod saw vpon him selfe that he was not the hyest Godhed it selfe but that he was also man ⪠then was he vndersought or tempted to the knowledge of good and euill to be therethrough as God. Then came a blindnes ouer man and estranged him or seperated him from his God wherethrough he could not beare the word or voice of his god nor shine before him with his naked manhoode Man did acknowledge none other God saluation nor kingdome of heauen but through the knowledge that the man had takeÌ on to him self which was nothing els but the deuill hell and condemnation Through this knowledge of AdaÌ the generations of men haue inherited a consumeable inheritaunce wherethrough men that were made or shaped to be one with God and ought to be one with another are fallen into many contrarieties and hinderlike knowledges Thus man being fallen away altogether destroyed in his vnderstanding and from the liuing Godhed and from the kingdome of heauen straunged might be brought agayne to his vpright estate in his God through his loue according as he had promysed to the saluation of the manly generation he made one new man after the same likenes or similitude of his Godhead and named him Iesus Christus which doeth signifie vnto vs the safemaking oyle of God sauing being the same is gone out from God and hath shewed himselfe vpon earth He is gone into the knowledge of men and found all their man knowledges and their scripture learnednes in all in all that they wist false and lying This false knowledge siting she vnderstandeth not Gods truth aright through her wisdome and Scripture learnednes hath Christ rebuked and taken captiue the knowledge of men and made it through Christ foolishnes to make them frée and deliuer them in this to coÌming day of his Lordlines from all their foolish knowledge Euen so hath Christ done by y sin and the righteousnes of men He is also gone into the death of men and hath borne therby one death namely his death of the crosse and so through his death hath taken captiue the death of men because that he in y last day in his comming againe may set vp the man from death through the death of the cros and make him aliue that he may bring him in his vpright estate to his God. But now hath Iesus Christ the might and Lordship ouer all destroyed things which burthened the men and the destructions which were takeÌ captiue and through the death of the cros had brought all vnder him Euen so is he with his might and Lordship risân agayne from death ouer the destruction and through the declaration of his resurrection hath he shewed to his frends and disciples which belâeued in him and hath made it knowen vnto them the might home to get y ouer winning against al y destroyed things wherewith the maÌ was incaptiued God hath ordayned a day which is the day of loue in which he will iudge the earth with righteousnes through one man he hath concluded it which holdeth beliefe before euery man seing that God hath awaked him againe from the death Hetherto the doctrine of HN. taken out of a booke called Mans falling away his Lordlines and comming agayne THe heauenly being of God and God his vpright righteousnes is become mortall in vs but yet not for euer but for a certaine season till the man shew forth vpright fruites of repentaunce The man in his youngnes is subiect to sinne vntill he haue attayned the manly oldnes in the Loue and the vpright fréedome then is the new couenaunt of perfection ereââed and all is fulfilled which is written by Moyses or that God requireth through his Prophets or what is euangelised of Christ. And if there chaunce any temptations by our Paramours which we in tymes past haue loued to come and assault vs c. but if they lay hould on vs with force and violence and that then although we cry there commeth not any power or helpe vnto vs for to withstand them in their force and violence and that they euen so rauish vs agaynst our will so are we guiltles of the transgressinges for wee haue cryed for to be released from the tyranny of the euill and there is no helpe come vnto vs of which guiltles transgressinges the law witnesseth where it sayth a woman that is violently taken in the field c. The regenerat man from his new byrth is exercised in all well doing and for that cause also he cannot bring fourth any thing els but all good and Loue. The true or vpright fredome is this that the man through the ministration of the gracious word c. his hart spirite and minde is wholy released purged and purified from all wicked nature which hath raigned ouer him that there dwell liue nor rule any other thing in him namely in all his spirite thoughtes minde soule but alone the true Godhed with his louely being of the vpright Loue and so to be wholy replenished with all y vertues of God that there flowe nothing els in him namely in all his spirite and minde but the spirituall heauenly ⪠and liuing waters Man regenerat doth veare costly treasure in earthen veâsels is of one minde with the thrée godly witnesses that heare witnes in heauen Of which thâee godly witnesses the onâ is the Loue which is God the Father himselfe The second witnes is the trueth which is the word of God the Father Iesus Christ himselfe And the third witâes is the holy spirite of Loue or of God of the truâth of Iesus Christ which is the euerlasting lyfe and the inheritaunce of all spirituall and heauenly goodes Consider where God with his Christ and spirite hath his dwelling iâ any one and bringeth forth ãâã secret treasures of the heauenly goodes thereout euen there is then truely his wisedome to be found and also the couÌcell of God according to the trueth
haue bent that poore skill and force I haue to displey these men with their doctrine There are many Right honorable that could better more learnedly haue confuted their doctrine but it is so vayne and childish that simple soules and meanely exersized in holy scripture are sufficiently instructed by the Lord to manifest all their abhommations The simplier sort of these men I take to be such as haue a desire to serue the Lord and yet is their simplicitye caryed away by the Elder sort or stronger men conference in my opinion is the best way to helpe the simple which the Elder sort can noâ away withall least their trecheryes should be espied âdad one of their writers geueth theÌ such a precept in his booke intituled a fruitfull exhortation to the Family of Loue in â sextion But ye shall not contend or dispute with the blasphemers and the tanglers about the scripture nor with the apostates or decliners from vs and our good doctrine or with the selfe conceited wife nor yet with any of all those that bring in variaunce and make breach besides our good doctrine of the seruice of Loue. It appeareth Right honorable by this prohibition of this Elder that conference and disputation is forbidden them especially the Elder sort but the noâces which are not enterid into the secret partes of their doctrine but are caryed away with a shew of pietye and good lyfe which at the beginning is opened vnto theÌ with fly and suttle perswasions that nothing els is sought at their handes but how the man might be made persite in Christ Iesu but after once a step be made towardes them or a tast of this doctrin then bookes are bestowed vpon them which they must reade of HN. as his exhortation his dialog his âpistles the exposition of the Lordes prayer with the Articles c. as they profite in these bookes harder to digest as the Prophesie of the spirite of Loue a declaration of the Masse the holy Lambe the Gospel or âuangâly of HN. c. last of all the glasse of righteousnes which few of this company haue the other bokes more riser printed as is supposed in Flasâders and translated by this Libeller into English as he himselfe confesseth And here I craue pardon in that I haue bin ouerlong to trouble your honor with these repeticioÌs and I would to God that I had no occasion ministred once to name these persons nor this error then should Christ his Church nor no member in the same haue needed to bend their study to publish or manifest the same The Lord of mercy geue your honor all increase of fayth with the trueth of true pietye and continue in you a zeale of Christ his Church with a care y nothing but trueth be taught therein and that the contemners thereof may be put to silence so as our God may be glorified his people edified error and heresies subuerted trueth aduanced which the Lord God graunt for his sonne our Sauiour Christ his sake to whom be honor ⪠and prayse now and euer Your honour to commaund I. Rogers To the Christian Reader CHristian Reader thou hast to peruse at thy pleasure this finale treatise contayning an aunswere vnto Christopher Vitell the chiefe âlder of the pretended âamâlye of Loue and because it was directed to me and aunsereth certaine poyntes of my former boke called the displeying of the âamily Therefore it is very meete and conuenient that since the matter toucheth me neerely and âhargâth me with much vntruth that I defend the cause I first toke in hand which I am verely pârswaded is an honest iust and godly defenâe of thâ puritye of doctrine now taught and pâblicklâ preached which this âamilye spuâne egerly against And although 2. vigilant Pastors haue leaânedly confuted the doâtâine of their Author HN. Yet this little availeth to recall them home to that found profession that some of the once âasted and least they should boâst or vaunt that they haue written or compiled anâthing which should not be aunswered I hâue thought good once agayne to bend my simple study to ânswere this libeller Christopher Vitell whole crâdit amongâst the âamilye is not small Maâuelâ not gântle reader that I being the simplest of many thousandes haue aâuentuâed to meddlâ in these disputable questions more âitter for men of learning and knowledge I graunt but since they haue made their inuectiues agaynst me it behoueth me simply to aunswere wherin I confesse many thingâs are omitted which mâght well hâue bin spoken of and many thinges are briefely touched which should haue bin dilated if leasure had serued me but since I cannot dâe thinges as I would thou hast my goodwill as I could Yf thou wouldest profiâe by reading these conferences it is expedient that thou peruse a little boke called âhe displeing of the Familye the publishing of which boke was the cause that this man being touched therein neerely hath made this Lâbell for aunswere thereunto excusing himselfe of many crimes and as much as in him lyeth keeping vp the credit of their Aucthor HN. whoâe the âamilye would not that he should be touched or blemished no not with a venew but he that listeth to marke how his chiefest schollâr or oldest ângliâh Elder Christopher Vâtel doth with might and maine culleâ and hide all the faultes of HN. as well his âoctrine and foule errors as his corrupt lyfe and conueâsation and how confidently and with a bâasen face he auoucheth that all is false and lyes whatsoeuer is brought forth neuer so probably yeâ with many witnesses thou shalt or it be long haue a testimoniall out of âlaunders of HN his whole lyfe which if the Family here in ângland would be âesoluâd with ââueth shal be vpon any oââasion published in print it nothing blâmisheth our âause although this rude and vnlâarned Aunswere be made vnto this slaunderous Libell but our God therein is greatly magnified that simple men are suâficiently assisted with God his spiâite to confute and ouerthrow this blasphemous doctrine of the Familye so gâosse and absurd it is agaynst all the holy scripture and agaynst common reason And as nothing is more in vaâiance betweene vs then how man is restored vnto that âlisle lost in Adam and his state being regeneâate I haue simply set downe my poore sâill such experience of a regenerat man as I finde in holy writâ feele in my own consciâence And also I haue collected the condition of a regenerat peâson by the doctâine of HN. as neeâe as I could collect by such bokes of theirs as came to my handes wherein if the Familye imagine that I haue not rightly set foâth a âegeneâat man after their doctrine let some of their illuminat Elders if they please set vpright such a one as they will stand vnto So shall the controuersy betwene them and vs soner come to end and tryall which if they refuse to doe then it will appeare that it is not
them patience we beseech thee that they may abide whatsoeuer thy Maiestie hath determined so that euen in tormentes they may witnes thy holy name Graunt vs O Lord our God these our petitions or so many as are expedient for vs thy children for thy deere Sonne our Sauiour Iesus Christ his sake To whom with thee ⪠the holy Ghost be al honor praise glory dominion power for euer and euer Amen A short reply after the order of a proface By the meanes of certayne slaunderous wordes as followeth from C. V. THERE IS NOTHING more necessarye for the reedisying of God his Gospell in a common wealth then foâ euery such vnto whome the Pastorall office is committed With all expedition to beate downe by the aucthoritye of the same word all vpstart heresies And opinions by the which the true Church and congregation Is disquiâtâd ⪠of lâte theâefore as one poore member of the same in a preface To the tituled worke agaynst those which are called the Familye of Loue liking tâeÌ to a Cormorant Fowle was for that I espied By the manner of writinges and imaginatiue prâctise Somewhat slyly couered ouer as the Snake vnder the greene hearbe from their HN. an Onacratoluâ câept in this our natiue Countrye of EnglaÌd through simplicitye But rather I feare me hipocâisie to the bosomeâ of many supposed wise men the more by the meanes of a second Mergus C. V. Whome heretofore by vttered vow at Paules Crosse âecanted as I thinke the same error which he now stiffely defendeth Neuerthelesse sithens which tyme Hath in coâners drawen companyes togethers of the which sâme haue refâained ⪠and others yet tâo many abidiââ I thârefore somewhat to further the goodwil of the Author agaynst that Familye their error and not their pââsons and for the hopes sake which is layd vp in store through Iesus Christ our âord and Sauiâur did by preface ⪠forewarne the vewers of the sayd bâoke to be heedefull of such so pestileÌt a sect who vnder the title of sundry senteÌces of holy scriptuââ Hâue as in a maââ knit fast through the webbe of the Spider Many âely âlyes whose vnstable mindes more wauering theÌ such slender wings haue ben are and will be except the grace of God make them more heedefull so fast tangled that it will be scarce possible to pluck them out I doe once agayne euen as one greatly compelled make aunswere agaynst that which herein followeth by those wâome I hoped their conuersion and not detection whose wordes haue sayd me to be Diueled with the Deuill I doe consider these wordes to bâ sayd to me by the lyke intention as to my L. and maister Christ that he had Belâebub the chiefe Deuill yet wâââe ââue And the reprouers false Their wordes This blasphamous Batman with his slaundering and lyâng blasphemeth the holy Ghost for he nameth the Familye of Loue a Corniorant Fowle And an sereticall sect whereas notwithstanding there is ãâã Catholick Church nor comminasâye of Saintes but the Familye of Loue And herein he condemneth the holy Scriptures the Lawe and the Prophets as also Christ and his Apostles Moreouer he sayth that the Lord his elected Minister HN. is of the seede of certayne sectaries â Whereas his doctrine is altogether agaynst all Sectaries If it be blasphemy to reproue an error then haue I not done well if it be lying to detect a falshode I will reaunswere if slaundering them that slaunder other in one is the fault to this first God his worde doth teach me to defend his Church the Queenes Maiesties lawes her common wealth whereto my conscience aunswereth by the trueth that if you take not better heede you will fall from heresie to treason and so into contempt of your religion Of your loyaltye And true seruice of God of the which take heede for the holy Ghost is iudge betwixt vs both I doe name the Familye of Loue the selfe same as before till I doe perceaue you to be otherwise minded except you vse this policye That when your Religion will hold no longer you will then say we vnderstode not your mindes and so therereby exâuse your follyes You say there is no Catholick Church nor comminaltye of Saintes but the Familye of Loue surely your loue is so secret if we vnderstand it not you much lesse perceaue it but in secluding all that be not of your Family What shall be sayd of all the godly in the world before your HN. whome now to culler doe call the holy name What say you of our gratious Queene Her noble Counsaile the leaâned Byshopâ And disââet preachers of the Lordes Gospell What thinke you of the excellent ouâces both Oxford ⪠Cambridge from the which they are not now to learne of their true loue in god Of your HN. Neither of C. V. Who cunningly hath ioyned together that which we know Christ to be the ouââcommer and C. Vitell the Ioyner to be bât a deceiuer Your Argument must haue an Interâection when you say He condemneth the holy Scriptures the lawe and the Prophetes all which three âââuerence loue and obây ⪠by the Lord God his assistance you ad as also Christ and his Apostles is it enough to condemne any before the cause why ⪠your Vocatiue must haue a Datiue to your selfe be all these except you ãâã the greater heeâe I ãâã also vettrly deny your HN. Hârry Niâholas to be the Lordes elected Minister ⪠otherwiâe then suâferâd to peruert the congregation And also I say to you Chrisâopher Vitell ãâã you ãâ¦ã and while there is yet tymâ ãâ¦ã to God whome in this âtâr you hâue greatly offended your Prince much aâused ⪠anâ many your fellow disorderly ãâ¦ã by your vngodly collections thorow which ãâ¦ã you haue continued too long as to your ease you may thinke So to their payne it may be assured If now your doctrine be agaynst all Sectaryes Then be as good as your word and âly these errors ⪠els as weedes are cut of with sickle and sithe for hiâting the good herbes so must euill membber from a common wealth Fare well Fidem fero mihi fama fuco An Aunswere to a wicked and infamous Libel made by one of the chiefe english Elders of the pretended Familie of Loue. Vitell. Testimonies of Sion of the ââst stone of fouâdatioâ layd therein of âhe iudgement and righteousnes and of the holy priesthood and spirituall oblation through Iesus Christâ brought fourth through the Lordes âlâcââd minister HN. loue Trueth BLessed is he which watcheth for the day of the Lorde which shal come as a theefe in the night Math. 24.1 Thessa ⪠5. Peter 3. For the tyme shall come that the watchmen vpon mount Ephraim shal crye come let vs goe vp vnto Sion to the Lord our god Iere. 31. Mich. 4. Zach. 8. Answere TO what purpose these places of holy scripture are collected I am ignoraunt of because they want dew explication we know that from Sion came the law of
scarce credible But at âmden from that day to this opeÌly he durst not be séene therefore some other matter was layd to his charge then professing a strange doctrine For his credite sake it had beâ conuenient to haue geuen some reason to proue that he was accused for no other cause let the world iudge indifferently where is more probabilitye Vitell. ANd after there was iustice desired then they restored agayne his goodes vnto his children but there was much taking away by the vntrue officers for there was no inuitory taken therof but whether he went and where he had his abode that shall in tyme be manifest when as the Lord shall moue the hartes of the Magesââates to desâre to know the ground of the trueth then shall it all be declared to them but the trueth thereof is yet vnknowen vnto you therefore you may be content and not trouble your selfe therwiâh Answere THe Magâstrates you say redeâiuered hââ goodes to his children therfore they were men that imbraced Iustice and so would they haue ministred Iustice to HN. If he would â stayd but the safest way was to preuent the matter by flight you are very âriuye to HN. and his doingâs that can so redely tell what was missing now the Magestrates here shall know the trueth where he is and where he hath made his abode euer since but sure it is little to be regarded where he is and I thinke the Magestrates doe hartely wishe that he had neuer ben borne nor you neither he for deuising your new familye and you for publishing the same to our countrye and translating tâe bookes which certainly was not done lyke a godly ChristâaÌ nor a true ânglish harted man For in âeede as I am informed you are of the Dutch race your selfe and so appearâth by your vaine and curious hed salling froÌ one error to another as those countrymen are apt vnto âf the boâkâs had remained in dutch our quiet Country should neuer haue âin troubled with this new familye to the griefe oâ God his childreÌ whiâh bewaile y state that you haue brought many vnto at this day veye well assured that although ye lurke in corners and send fourth your Libels you cannot escape his handes who seeth euery corner of our hartes And as HN. by slight would not abide the triall of his matter euen so doe ye follow the same course sayle rightly by his compas for stand to your doctrine nor come to conference you dare not but priuily insinuat your doctrine where your wordes are taken for Oracles The Magestrates would gladly that you should geue a reason more agreable to truth of your dealinges and doctrine as for HN. where he became or where he is they little passe and wheâe you say that to me the trueth is vnknowen it may be as you say neither will I trouble my selfe much therein but that you of his Familye might imbrace trueth is my chiefe purpose which cannot be in my opinion holding your selues captiue to the illusions of HN. Vitell. FVrthermore you say that he doth cal himselfe Restorer of al things whereunto I aunswere that there is no suâh word written by him and yet hath thâ Lord accomplished according to his promises through the âpiriââ of Christ in him all that he hath spoken through the mouth of his seruauntâs the Prophets more where you say that HN. cannot erre or miââe the right c. I know not how hee or any one should erre whiâhâ is indewed with the holy Ghost led by the spiâite of Christ which leadeth into all trueth Aunswere THat he doth so call himselfe I haue written therein as I âinde it collected by the commissioners who delt specially in that matter but you affirme as much or more of him then I charged him with For you say that the Lorde âath accomplished through the spirite of Christ in him all that he hath spoaken through the mouth of his Prophetes and this we thinke to be very straingely auouched of you contrary to trueth the Prophecyes of such whome the Lord raysed vp to coÌfort the weake estate of his Church in the tyme of the law were fulfilled in their seasons especially such prophesyes as either touched the captiuitye of the Iewes or the destruction of their Citie also many of their prophesies concerned the comming of our merciful Messias the maner of his byrth passion death and resurrection Now to affirme that all these are fulfilled in ââ is very horââble and moÌstrous but such is your vanitye that so you may extoll the dignitye of your Aucthor you care not what vntruthes ioyned with blasphemye you vtter the lyke speach HN. auoucheth of himselfe saying what God hath spoken âhrough hâs holy Prophets what is written of Châist should also in vs and with vs beâome fâlâilled c. âow you are able by any shaddow of trueth to proue anâ of these two sayinges true it had bin requisite that you should a shewed for they carry great absurdityes both in trueth and reason Whether doe you lift vp your Aucthor by such vntrue speaches it doth appeare very lamentable to all God his children this is proude bosting and exaltation such as S. Paule did warne the Church to take heede of such I doe much maruell that Christian men with any face can write thus presumpteouslye of mortall man although you would qualisye your saying that this is brought to passe by the spirite of Christ in him but this helpeth not neither doth it stand with the will of God reueled that any mortall creature should be so exalted For if we should demaund of you how we shall know this to be true then you aunswere by his workes which I thinke you meane his bookes Yf otherwise you meane some miraculous dealing which you are priuy of and not knowen it were necessary for his credit and your honesty not to hide it any longer but simply to manifest the same Moreouer you say that none can erre which are indued with the holy ghost c. We know that the spirite leadeth into al trueth yet those vessels hauing by grace such priuiledge doe often in shew and countenaunce appeare as though the spirite were queÌâhed or as fire raked vp in ashes example here of Peter who hauing the spirite of God yet did thingâs contrary to trueth and therefore was rebuked by Paule and that worthely many in Christ his Church no dout haue bin guided by the spirite of God and yet sometymes haue shewed theÌselues humane creatures as wanting that excellent priuiledge appropriate to Christ which sayd I am trueth such is our condition we may not reach higher not to erre is a speciall title belonging to Christ our Lord and not to mortall man although lightened with the spirite we must rest conteÌt with such honor as it pleaseth him to graunt who is Lord of his creatures and not to reach so high as presumpteously to chalenge a title and dignity farre aboue our capacitye and not
with all to deceaue all How do you obserue the politik ordinaunce of the Maiestrate in printing your bookes and publishing them to the Queenes subiectes contrary to the law made in that behalf your obedience cânsisteth in wordes but not in ãâã âhârefore with more truth you might saye we will not be obedient to Maiâstrates In that you coÌdescend âoâ iâ anye thing contrary to God c. Therin you say well but I would you were found herein true of your promise for then your HN. and hys doctrine with hys prophesies should not haue such credit amoÌg you as appeareth if his doctrine be not directly agaynst the Lorde our God and hys commaundementes I apeale vnto the iudgement of all God his Children that shall reade these conferences You accompt none vngodly but such as blaspheme the Lord and despise his most holy seruice of loue Whome you accompt blasphemers before is declared iâ any speake aagaynst your HN. or your Family of loue Ipso faâto he is a blasphemer then all the worlde which doe despise your Familye are blasphemers your conclusion must needes fall out euen so whereby appeareth what reuerent opinion you haue of any and of al that are not of your Family if you learned this of HN. consider better of it for very shame of y worldâ if no reuereÌce nor feare of God can moue you You confesse that there is no man righteous vntill the Lord deliuer him froÌ hys vnrighteousnes but howe we are deliuered you wee greatly vary we according vnto the holy Scripture do acknowledge Christ to be our righteousnes which he hath wrought perfectly in him selse which by fayth wee apply to our vnrighteousnes hys obedieÌce his loue his pacience c. we by fayth apply to our disobedience to our hatred to our impacience c. all what was in Christ is made ours by grace yet still wee in our earthen vessels are coârupt sinâull and vâyde oâ anye suche vertues as the law requireth But âou on the contrarye affirme that by Christ working in vs by hys spirite we are made righteous and so clensed from our vnrighteousnes that we are chaunged into hys perfection so that in all our actions wordes and thoughts nothing can âlow oâ pâocâede from vs but sucâe as procâede ârom Christ because we are guyded by the same spirite but whether you or wee speake truth let the holy Scriptures beare witnesse then may be say that the Lord is his righteousnes it is very true but how and in what manner the Lord may be sayd to be our righteousnes is to be vnderstoode we acknowledge y hee in hys owne person is our righteousnes and sanctificatioÌ but you will haue hys righteousnes wrought in you by his spirtie the difference coÌsisteth in the maâer we acknowledge in him all strength all piety all obedience and in our selues all weakenes all vngodlinesse and all disobedience but you will needes haue all in all to be in vs whiche to much blemisheth hys glory and triumph if we shoulde also in our persons triumph our triumph standeth not in doing but in beleeuing in him which did Therefore as you haue charged vs wrongfully to be aduocats for sinne so may we rightly call yâu Patrons for our corrupt rotten and earthen vessels Vitell. MOre you are offended at the confession of the Familye of Loue vnderstand the matter well that there is no man coÌpelled therevnto but if any one be wounded or trobled in his coÌscience then he may to his coÌfort make his euel thoughts or els what manifest vnto a priest or Elder aâcording vnto the counsell of the holy scripture Also I thinke it is an ordinauÌce in the Church of England that if any one be troubled in minde he shall come and aske counsell of the person or minister and I thinke he must then make manifest his thoughtes c. And the Catholiâk ReligioÌ holdeth thought word and deede but there are many that will compell men to deâlare their thoughts ⪠whiâh ãâã nââther pâiestes nor Ministers of the âord Aunswere TOuching your coÌfessioÌ which âou acknowledge to be voluntary and not coaâted I haue signified my dislyking your Auâthor HN. doâh say it is expedient that they of his Familye make maniâest all that hath bin coÌmitted both what it is wherevnto our nature draweth vs vnto here it apppeareth ⪠if you follow your Author directly he leueth the matter not so voluntary as of necessitye And this must be done as you say vnto a pâiest or Elder to please the Papitles I thinke you haue added this worde priest but we tell you that such manner of confession the scriptures allow not of if any be wounded in conscieÌce he may to his comfort repayre to any godly or learned preacher âo shew his griefe and to receaue counsell and comfort to his consolation by the scripture agaynst the prick of conscience or the law which troubleth many miÌs mindes but that of necessitye he must make manifest all thoughts all what our nature doth incline vnto there is no warrant what ordinaunce is in the Church of England you haue not shewed but that he must of necessitye make manifest his thoughts it is vntrue it is left frââ onely by way of perswasion men are moued to repaire in such extremitye to their learned and godly pastors and by no ordinaunce but this appeareth that you accompt not your selfe as any member of this Church of England no maruell for you holde it more safe to professe HN. his Familye then to be an obedient child of Christ his Church Whereof England is a speciall part What the Catholick religion holdeth touching confession is no cloke to shaddow your dealinges with all for we tell both you and them that such a confession as both you and they hold is not agrâeing with trueth The Papistes vrge men and accompt them heretickes that deny it and you hold it as an expedient thinge neither haue you both any warrant so to doe Some doe compell men to declare their thoughtes which are neither priestes nor ministers as you affirme who they are you tell vs not yet I suppose you meane the coÌmissioners who âxamining your Familye touching their fayth and doctrine found them so suttle by your instructioÌs that in y end they required theÌ to declare their knowledge what they thought of their Author HN. and I thinke the Magistrate authorised by the Prince may in such cases require vs to maniâest what opinion we haue of any Author or what we thinke of him but you haue taught them to say we know him not and therefore to commend him or discommend him wee may not such sleightes you deuise wheÌ the Magistrats requireth a trueth at your handes and here is also declared your obedieÌce to rulers your Elders are safe when the poore country people are brought before the Magistrates but when will any of you the âlders come voluntarily and defend your doctrine and proue it good by souÌd argumeÌt it
is not enough to seâd out your Libelâ without name and âide your seluââ ãâ¦ã and say our riâorous deâling is tââ cause thereof Truelâ iâ you would appoânt tyme and place and meete accordingly I burst vndertake to be bound that you should both come goe safely where confereÌce might bring trueth to light if you looke for trueth and require to be satisâââd for this wrangling is not so consonant to ChristiaÌ pietye ⪠truth ⪠and playne dealing is âest and none that euer held trueth but was desirous of conference iâ you refuse it and mutter still among your selues when shall trueth appeare where it is For the loue of God examine these things and take better aduise Vitel. YOu say moreouer that we affirme that the lawe of God may be kept it is true we doe so affirme that they whiâh loue God will keepe his commaundementes âor so sayth Christ he that loueth me will keepe my commaundementes but he that loueth me not will not keepe them Aunswere THen all is not false y I haue collected of you as some of your Familye haue written that the law is possible to be kept you deny not but why you affirme it you yeald small reason only Christ sayth If you keepe my commaundementes c. Touching this matter of the possibilitye of the law I haue aunswered your schollers to their seuerall Epistles sent to me Yet further consider what ãâã nature of the law is Theâ lawe causeth wrath Rom. 4 v. 15. The law hath dominion ouer man as long as he liueth Râm â v. ââ I know not sinne but by the ãâ¦ã Actes 15. chap. 10. ver ⪠Why tempt you God to ley a yoke on the disciples neckes which neither our fathers nor we are able to beare marke therefore what is the nature of the law It causeth wrath it hath dominion ouer vs while we liue it bringeth vs to the knowledge of sinne a yoke importable now compare this with our frayle state and condition how by the law the Lord hath made our sinnes knoweÌ as appeareth Rom. 11.32 For God hath shut vp all in vnbelieââ that he might haue mercy on all also Gala. 3.22 But the scripture hath concluded all vnder sinne that the promise by the fâith of Iesus Christ shoulde be geuen to them that beleue If by this doctrine we bâ concluded and shut vp all vnder sinne then it argueth a playne impossibilitye to keepe the law If there were in vs any possibilitye to fulfill the lawe theÌ Chriââ our Lord dyed in vaine for he fulfilled the same for vs neither was there any meane found in heauen or earth to pacify the wrath of God and satisfy y law but the death of that immaculate Lambe Christ Iesus For Christ was apoynted to fulfill the law for vs before there was a law geuen for if by our infirmitye the strength of Christ is made perâte Cor. 2. chap. 12. vers 9. So contrary if we affirme in vs strength to fulfill the law then is his death extenuatâ and made oâ none effect It is no derogatioÌ to God that such a law is geuen vs which we cannot keepe but thereby his great mercy and loue towards vs is shewed in sauing vs and delyuering vs from the danger therof by Christ Iesus ouâ Lord. We reiect not the law but in reuârence imbrace it as a scholemaster to sée our imperfections and send vs to Christ such is the nature of the law such is our weakenes in performing the same neuer was there any that did it only âachary âlysabeth are sayd to walke in all the commaundements âut how far sine querela coââm ãâã without reproose before men But iâ the Lord should haue entered inâo iudgement agaynst them by the dexterity of his law ⪠then must they needâ haue sayd to vs is nothing due but confusion and shame to thee be honor and glory for euer Now you sâe how the law is fulfilled and satiâfied in the person of Christ noâ in our persons but meerely by him so that in Christ and by Christ haue we fulfilled the law because his righteousnes is made ours by grace which we take hold on through faith All those places of holy scripture which commaund the obseruation of the law do therin set before vs marks to leuell at so that we must studye to come as neare them in our life as our mortall state and frayle condition will permit You deceue your selues mightely when by illusion of Sathan you acknowledge that you keep the law in euery condition as it requireth except ye admit that distinctioÌ the Libertines doe which affirme nothing to be sinne except we make a conscience thereof before it be committed Much more might be sayd by men of better skill if you require to be satisfied Vitell. FVrthermore you say that we affirme HN. to be the true Prophet of God sent to blow the last trumpâ of doctrine which shal be bloweÌ vpon the earth Marke whât ⪠his works testifie of him and euen so is he whether it be beleued or noâ But he sayeth not that no man knoweth the true senâe of the scripture but he but this I say if any man know the truth he caÌnot condemn HN. nor his prophesie but much more imbrace it Answere THat HN. was a Prophet you denied not before now you affirme the same but you giue vs a caueat that he is the same that his workes testifie of him what you meane by his works I know not excepte you meane hys bookes which testifie him to be a deceiuer ââd an erroneous spirit he seducâd by Sathan and you by him But if you meane by woâkes some miraculous matter muttered of you in secret corners theÌ we tell you plain âhat neither his bookes nor his works can cleare him of false prophesies and wicked doctrine which you teach the people as appeareth You say if any man know y truth he cannot condemne HN. nor his prophesie but much more imbrace it If you could make this to be beléeued it were somwhat but who will credite your saying being so often takeÌ tardy There be many in the worlde which know the truth vndoutedly which neuer heard of HN. nor any doctrine of his ⪠your saying is very monstrous many are with the Lord that haue geuen their liues for the truth and yet neuer knew HN. nor heard of him if none know the truth but such as imbrace âN and his doctrine then waâ trueth hidden before he came into the world or writ his bookes such a gift you haue to auouch a manifest vntrueth where all godly Christianes can say the contrary Yet to mayntayne him in his vaine prophesying ⪠you let not to ty trueth to his girdle so that none that knowes trueth can condemne HN. So inuinsible a Patrone you haue with long seeking gotten at last I doe verely thinke for all your great bragge that HN. will be an odious name in the mouthes of god hiâ children through all England
now he beginneth to be knowen and by the great credit and admiration you haue him in the more detestable will he be reputed as a seducer of such men as cannot content themselues wiâh such trueth as the scriptures containe but must haue a Prophét raysed vp out of FlauÌders a banished man and one that dare not shew his face in any countrey openly and you had rather imbrace his noueltyes then the wholsome doctrine conteyned in the olde and new testament Vitell. NOw concerning his bookes they be of such Aucthoritye as he affirmeth them but where as you say that he sayth all is false and lyes whatsoeuer is taught c. marke wel what he writeth and adde nothing thereto and it shall be found true what he writeth more where as you say he commendeth the Pope and Cardenalls with the Masse and other ceremonyes there is none commended but in their right order if you marke the matter well Answere HIs bookes I affirmed that they were in crâdite amongest the familye of equall auâhoritye with the scriptures and that they were written with the same spirite to this you auÌswere that they are of such aucthoritye as he hath affirmed thereforâ note well what you say for neuer any since the Apostles tunes had so impudent a face as openly to publish such a detestable lye if this come not from the spirite of pride I know no proud bosting spirites all the Fathers in the primitiue Church euer reuerenced the holy scripture and submitted all their bookes thereunto Austen desired not to be credited or beleued but as his workes might agree with the holy scriptures all men in generall haue euer acknowledged themselues in their writinges to be subiect to error onely the scripture to be without blemish but this man will haue HN. and his bookes of equall aucthoritye with the scriptures written with the same spirite thus doe you runne from one impietye to an other and in the highest degree of blasphemye But I pray you looke vpon the matter better before you say he is a prophet now his bookes are of equal aucthoritye with the scripture whether will you lift vp your HN. aboue all condition of fraile man the higher he is exalted the more greuous will be his fall without repentaunce it is Luciferian pride thus to attribute vnto mortall man but you make HN to be a name of office and not of a creature such misteryes requireth falced where trueth and simplicitye imbraceth playne dealing Now you say that HN. doth auouch all to be false whatsoeuer is taught by any other therefore heare his owne wordes and then discerne and sée God his trueth and his godly and heauenly workes are vnknowen vnto all fleshe and vnto all fleshly and earthly men but it is geuen to the children of the kingdome the comminaltye of the Loue to vnderstand the secret misteryes thereof You say it will be found true what he writeth If none but the comminaltye or Familye of Loue doe vnderstaÌd the scripture then it was not rightly vnderstode before there was any mention of your Familye Now for commendatioÌ of the Pope Cardinals and Masse he sayth hee commendeth none buâ in his right order this speach is ambigâus in his right order For simply I thinke none of them haue any shaddow of right order neither is their callinges nor doctrine grounded vpon either right or good order Your Author belyke alloweth the Masse or els he would not haue taken such paynes as to explicat euery ceremonye therein in his booke called A declaratioÌ of the Masse but thus with subtiltye of speach you would faine say somewhat to defend your Author be his sayinges neuer so monstrous Vitell. FOr in that booke named a ioyfull message of the kingdome of God Christ though ye deâidingly call it his gospell is declared that âPapa signifieth an olde Father in the holy vndeâstanding Now althogh he be not indued with the holy vnderstaÌding yet is the name not the worse in it selfe For the Lord hath ordeined gouernours spirituall and temporall and they represent the maiestye of God although now certayne gouernours gouerne not according to the rule of righteousnes yet is not therefore the name euerthelesâe of reputation because it is an ordenance of God therefore let vs despise no name that belongeth to gouernours neither yet also any gouernour nor any man els for we haue all sinned haue neede of the grace or mercy of the Lord. Answere THe booke in lattin is called EuaÌgelium Regnâ gospell of the kingdome but this man is the translator thereof and hath qualified it calling it a ioyfull message of the kingdome the title is arrogant and presumptuous the doctrine therein worse as will appere in print ere it be long the pope hath found among manâ enemies one freÌd although his doctrine is spokeÌ against euery where yet this maÌ would gladly képe and retayne his bare name belonging to a gouernour in office we coÌdeme not the name his doctrine not agrââing with the word is by the same word condemned so is yours For significations of names ⪠wâe will not contend a part of your deuinity lyeth therein neither do wee despise any name but is euell doctrine be shadowed or vnder any name cloked then wee inuey agaynst the doctrine vsing the name as wheÌ inuectiues are made agaynst the Pope or HN. it is not ment of the persons but of the doctrine And surely the Pope did neuer exercise so great a Popedome in the West Church as your HN. a new Pope doth among you of his Familye and as the papistes which tooth and nayle seeke to maintayne euery absurd and senceles part of the popes doctrine with all their power witte and skill EueÌ so do ye of his Family maintayne your Nâ and whatsoeuer vnsauery doctrine he teacheth it maâ not be discredited nor he cannot therein erre or misse the right in such reputation haue you placed mortall man. You say we all haue sinned haue need of y grace or mercy of the Lord y all haue sinned you truely confes but that all doe dayely sinne you cannot beleue especially you the ââders of the holy vnderstandinâ but in humilitye of spirite you and wee ought to coÌfesse not onely that we haue sinned but dayely and hourely do sinne and haue neede not onely of his grace but his mercy also although you speake of grace or mercy but wee craue his grace and mercy his grace to guide vs and his mercy to deliuer vs. Vitell. MOreouâr you are greatly offended because hee sayeth that none shold take iâ haÌd to teach or preach but the illuminate elders whiâh arâ Godded with God or incoâpoâatâd to God and with whom also God in one being and power of his spirite is hominisied or become man And those you call proud speaches and because âN vseth them ye despise him althoughe they be no strange words or speches in thâ dutâh language ⪠therfore in so doing you despiâe the
acknowledge themselues to be felow Elders with the Elder HN. and magnifie his office and calling abouâ measure and protest with great vehemency that such wonderfull workes as are brought forth through the same HN. could not be wrought unles the Lord God were with him And these strange names of their Elders do maruelously astonish our English people Elidad as I haue learned is an Hebruâ word and signyfieth dilecâus Dei. the beloued of God which is a proper title belonging to our Sauiour Christ. This is my beloued sonne c. And that we generally are in him and by him beloued there is no dout so is be still the beloued And that some of their Elders name themselues Fidelitas so others that belike are not come to so high degree name theÌselueâ Amatores Charitatis It is a world to see how these men delite in such vayne shewes of piety and thinke to get credite by these coloured meanes which to the godly seemeth ridiculous and too too fond And thus much coÌcerning the bokes in latin by occasioÌ of the Dutch wherin note this Christian Reader that wheras the Italian Pope would haue all in latin this other Pope and dutch Antichrist would haue all in Dutch as a predestinate tongue to open his prophesies and misteries of that Lord. All the quotations of holy scripture that HN. vseth to proue that he is rysen from the dead to iudge the world do proue in deede that Iesus Christ hath rysen from the dead must they therfore auouch HN. his resurrection See good Reader the presumptuous spirite of Sathan so setled in these for âorne âdames ⪠that through the eating of that forbidden fruite wherethrough they would become as god that is deiââed they are wholy become sathanified or diuilyfied Strange names I confesse but very significant propeâ for such strange Christians Was not Christ Iesus mightely declared to be God by the resurrection from y dead If this resurrection were the mightyest declaration or argument proofe that Christ was God iudge Christian Reader ⪠if HN. maketh not himself not only God but Christ and so the promised séede And in deede you your selfe Vitell haue affirmed him to be a Prophet before in thiâ place you cal him a priest geue him also the name of a king and then is he Christ a new Messiaâ for by his resurrection he maketh him selfe god Such an Antichâist â thinke should neuer haue beene heard of if that the Children of God had not beene warned in the gospell that many false Christes should come into the world and such dangerous dayâs that if it were possible the elect of God should be deceaued But blessed be God whâ euer is ready to preserue his electe by Christ sâ that perish in âecoiuable wayeâ they shall not such a care hath the Lord ouer his Now HN. and his ââistes office shall appeare where through the Lord will receaue all men O impudent wretâhes haue we not a deliuerer euen the Lord Iesus who doth not onely receaue vs but continually protect vs and minister to vs all thinges both heauenly and earthly which are expedient for vs but will you blasphemously open your mouthes that wee shall be receiued by the Priestes office of your HN. No godly Christian can heare this without griefe What âerogatioÌ is this to our merciful Lord and Sauiour that now a wretched man possessed with a lamentable spirite shall take vpon him his office and calling where through we shall be receaued Oh manisefâst impietye Oh exeârable iniquitye which no patience can beare Seing you publishe âuch doctrine in writing with deliberation what doctrine doe you teâch in corners to your Family where no maÌâare open hiâ mouth agaynst any blasphemy that you doe vtter ⪠In such credââ are you ââept but wo worth y hed that seekes to ãâã the simple with such horrible doctrine Your ãâã âayd that I know not HN. but as it was sayd to Serinthus the heretique I know him to be the first begotten sonne of SathaÌ But the Lord hath geuen his Church the spirite of trueth to direââ them from all such vâyne boastes of iniquitye So lykewise O Lord geue thy holy spirit to the simple seduced in y Familye ⪠that they may behold the blasphemyes which their Elders in wickednes doe teach agaynst the son of God Christ Iesus Vitell. FVrthermore you write very vntruly of HN. where you say that no man be he neuer so learned or godly can vnderstand or interpreat the scriptureâ for I am sure there are no such wordes written by him therfore I must needes say they are lyes and false iudgementes with wrong interpretatioÌs almost all what you write of him and of his workes and euen so are most of your interpretationâ which you alledge of Christ and his Apostles doctrine For if so be they I meane HN. his bookes might be perused of vnparciall Iudges then your iudgement would be found euen lyke their iudgement which coÌdemned Susanna but the Lord raysed vp Daniell which is the iudgement of God and deliuered the giltles vnto whome we commit our cause For he will iudge vprightly and reward euery one according to his deedes Aunsweâe WHat HN. hath pronouÌced of all other mens vnderstaÌding of the scripture I will here agayne set down that the reader may iudge who is in the lye Therefore it is assuredly all false and lyes seducing and deceitfull what the vngodded or vnilluminated men out of the imagination or of their owne knowledge and out of the learnednes of the scriptures bring forth institute preach and teach they preach in deede the letâer and the imagination of their knowledges but not the word of the liuing God. And in an oâher place âo diuâ ⪠codem cap. ãâã theÌ esteme themselues so holy as they will they are a false Christianitye and Diuells sinagogue or schole c. with many other places to lyke effect so that HN. still teacheth his Familye that it is geueÌ to the Familye of Loue to vnderstand the secretes thereof Now let the indiffereÌt reader iudge whether HN. exempt not all but him and his from the true vnderstanding of the scriptures all men which are not godded with God he tearmeth fleshly minded and earthly in cogitations and intreateth whole chapters of such men he sayth That a fleshly and earthly man out of his naturall and scripture learned vnderstaÌding hath not any sight or knowledge at all thereof he iâ so vtterly voyd of the same that he cannot vnderstand the smallest title thereof much lesse expound the same according to the trueth to an other c. So that it appeareth pâayne that nono but HN. and his illuminat Elders can vnderstand the samâ ⪠ââccording to trueth You say if HN. his bookes might be perused of vnpartiall Iudges then should his case be found as innocent as Susanna Those vnparcial Iudgeâ that you would haue are you and your fellow Elders in the Familye For I doe truely affirme that no
Gather ye now altogether into my house of Loue and to my holy tabernacle or man of God wherein I as a glorious God with my perfite Godhed as with my Christ at my right hand and with my holy spirit of Loue my true being doe liue dwell and walke and wherein wee as one true deity haue reuealed and glorified vs to the end that ye all now may become consubstantiated or coÌformably vnited as one mân of God in me and inherite my rest with all the children of God. For when all that which the Lord requireth through his word through the seruice of his Loue is fulfilled with vs all and in vs all so is then also verely with vs all namely by those with whome the same is fulfilled the end of the sinne and the death of the same come to passe or atteyned vnto the end of the sinne her death is the beginning of y eternall immortaâitye is also the vpright freedome in Iesu Christ whereunto all men Iewes and Greekes circumsized and vncircumsized wise and vnwise are called ⪠and bidden by the grace of God. Man being thus illuminate regenerat Godded with God in whom god in one power being of his spirit is hominiâied or become man cannot sinne misse the right nor commit any euill but doth Lorde preuaile with God and Christ ouer the sinne nothing can flow from him but heuenly liuing and safe making waters Christ his shape is required to be perfite in vs while we are in this lyfe the shape is perfection without sinne which shape cannot be in vs if we be sinners therefore requisite that we be pertakers of the new couenaunt of perfection spoken of by Fidelitas chap. 1. deui 8. Let euery one take this effectually to hart and let no man refuse the good being whereunto God hath created the man and called him through Iesus Christ his holy ones and wherevnto he is also presenly loued by the comminaltye of the loue c. FINIS AT LONDON Printed by Iohn Day dwelling ouer Aldersgate Anno. Dom. 1579. The âhâninâing of HN. into a holy nâââ and C. Vitell ⪠into an oueâ ãâã ⪠is a pâââe ãâã tâ ãâã so ãâ¦ã of ãâ¦ã The Deuâls dâââst neâeâââthe theâ fall of Lucifer eââhâânge theââ names into the dâuine eââenâe tâll now Onely ãâã I waâ thâ Cârist the Caâpenter ãâã called was yet better ãâ¦ã then Vitell the ioyneââ that so peâeshly hath framed wood and clay together ãâ¦ã Proph ãâ¦ã Gal. 2.11 Iohn 4.1 2. Thes. 2.1 Rom. 6.12 24. 1. Cor. 3.11 Psal. 130. â Tim. 1.15 Luke 17.10 Cor. 2. cha 12. v. 9. Tim. 1. châ Iohn 3.16 Prophesi Chapter 13 verse ãâ¦ã A ãâã callâd mânnes fâlling away Thessâ 2. châp â Prophesie âol 1. In the preââcâ of the Prophesie Fol. 1. Iohn 10. Psâlme 1. Gen. â 7 âââans ââatâ in innoceâcy Mans ãâã in âis âall ãâ¦ã 15. Gal. 4.4 Esaâ â 14 ãâ¦ã Rom. 13.14 Ephe. 1.3 ãâ¦ã ãâ¦ã Râm â 24 Râm â 9 Rom. 7.3 Gal. 5.17 â Cor. 1â 7 2. Sam. 12. âsay 57 â7 âeuââ0 1 ãâã â 18 Psalme 103 Psâl 116.13 Deut. 2â 26 ãâã 3.10 2. Cor. 12.8 Iob. 7.1 âsay ââ 9 Psal. 19. Ioh. 9.3 Ioâ 15. câa 14. â 15 1â âsa 25.11 Reuâ â This worâ ãâã worde ãâã of a ãâã called Man ⪠falling awây an ãâ¦ã 1. 2. âla 9. ââ Sexion 2. Sexion 6. Seâion â Man his innocency Sexion 10. Sexion 11. Sexion 14. Sexion 15. Sexion 1â Thâ opiâion thât thâ ãâã hauâ of Chriât Sexiân 17. Mâth 15. Lukâ â3 Sexion 10. Sexion 2â Sâxâoâ 24. Which man iâ HN. Published peace chap. 1. deui 16. Documentall sentenceâ HN. châp â deââ 4. âidâlitas Chap. 1. ââui â Documentâll sântenceâ chap. 3. dâui 7. â Libertinisme Deut. 22. Document chap. 2. deâi 1. Deut. 26. Maâ hâs stâte râgenârat Documentâll sântâncâs ⪠chap. 2 Dâuâ â Prophesie ⪠châp 6. Dâui 9. Pâophesie ⪠chap 7. Diui. 19. âidelitas Chap. 3. dâui 15. Vitel ⪠Libell Sexion And is their genâââl doctrine A principle in thââamilye collectâd by the doctrine Fidelitas Chap. 5. deui 15.