the old Non-Conformists as M r Hildersham There is nothing in our Assemblies but we may receive profit by it c. And again There is nothing done in God's Publick Worship among us but what is done by the Institution Ordinance and Commandment of the Lord. So among the present it is own'd by both Presbyterians and Independents by the former in the Morning-Exercise Why may it not be supposeable that Christians may be moved by reasonable considerations to attend the Publick Forms the substantial parts of them being thought agreeable to a Divine Institution though in some Circumstantials too disagreeable So it 's acknowledged That in private Meetings the same Doctrine and Worship is used as in the Parish Churches only some Circumstances and Ceremonies omitted By the latter We know full well that we differ in nothing from the whole form of Religion established in England but only in some few things in outward Worship But I shall have further occasion to treat of this under the third General As for the Ministry of the Church 1. It is acknowledged to be true and for substance the same which Christ hath established So M r Bradshaw I affirm That the Ministry of our Church-Assemblies howsoever it may in some particular parts of the execution happily be defective in some places is for the substance thereof that very same Ministry which Christ hath set in his Church This he speaks as he saith of those that do subscribe and conform according to the Laws of the State 2. That they have all things necessarily belonging to their Office so the grave and modest Confutation maintains The preaching of the whole truth of God's Word and nothing but it the administration of the Sacraments and of publick Prayer as they are all parts of the Ministers Office prescribed in the Word so they are all appointed to our Ministers by the Law 3. They owne That all the defects in it whether in their Call or Administration do not nullifie the Office Thus much M r Bradshaw doth contend for So many of our Ministers who in the Book of Ordination are called Priests and Deacons as in all Points concerning the substance of their Ministry are qualified according to the intent of the Laws have their Offices Callings Administration and maintenance for the substance thereof ordained by Christ. And yet I deny not but there may be some accidental defects or superfluities in or about them all yet such as do not or cannot be proved to destroy the nature and substance of any of them This is maintained at large in the Letter of the Ministers in Old England c. p. 86 87. And the like is also affirmed even by those of the Congregational way so the Brethren in their Apology The unwarrantable power in Church-Governours did never work in any of us any other thought much less opinion but that the Ministry thereof of the English Churches was a true Ministry So M r Cotton The power whereby the Ministers in England do administer the Word and Sacraments is either spiritual and proper essential to their Calling or adventitious and accidental The former they have received from Christ c. The latter from the Patron who presents or the Bishop who ordains c. Whoever has a mind to see their Ordination defended may consult Jus Divinum Ministerii Evangelici part 2. p. 12 16 17 25 c. Jus Divinum Râ—gim Eccles. p. 264 c. Cawdry's Independency a great Schism p. 116. and his Defence of it p. 35 37. Thus far therefore we see how far it is agreed that the Church of England is a true Church in its Doctrine Worship and Ministry But when we come to consider what the Church is they own thus to be true there we shall find that they do differ The Presbyterians generally own a National Church and have writ much in the behalf of it as may be seen in the Books quoted in the Margin others look upon it as a prudential thing and what may lawfully be complyed with So Mr. Tombs It is no more against the Gospel to term the believers of England the Church of England than it is to term believers throughout the World the Cahtholick Church nor is it more unfit for us to term our selves Members of the Catholick Church nor is there need to shew any institution of our Lord more for the one than the other But those that will not own it to be a true Church in respect of such a constitution or that speak doubtfully of it do yet assert as much of the Parish Churches It s acknowledged by all that the distribution into Parishes is not of divine but humane institution but withal its thought by some agreeable to the reason of the thing and somewhat favoured by Scripture and by experience has been found to be of such convenience advantage and security to Religion that a person of great eminence hath more than once said I doubt not but he that will preserve Religion here in its due advantages must endeavour to preserve the soundness concord and honour of the Parish Churches And another very worthy person saith that the nullifying and treading down the Parish Churches is a Popish Design But whatever opinion others may have of that Form yet all of one sort and another agree that the Churches so called are or may be true Churches This was the general opinion of the old Non-Conformists Thus saith a late Writer who though he is unwilling to grant that they did own the National Church to be a true Church yet doth admit as he needs must at least that they did own the several Parishes or Congregations in England to be true Churches both in respect of their constitution and also in respect of their doctrine and worship and that there were in them no such intollerable corruptions as that all Christians should fly from them And even those that were in other respects opposite enough to the Church did so declare It was saith Mr. Baxter the Parish Churches that had the Liturgy which Mr. H. Jacob the Father of the Congregational party wrote for communion with against Fr. Johnson and in respect to which be called them Separatists against whom he wrote The same I may say of Mr. Bradshaw Dr. Ames and other Non-Conformists whom the Congregational Brethren think were favourable to their way And if we will hearken to the abovesaid Author he saith again and again that the general sence of the present Non-Conformists both Ministers and People is that the Parishes of England generally are true Churches both as to the matter of them the people being Christians and as to the form their Ministers being true Ministers such as for their doctrine and manners deserve not to be degraded But left he should be thought to incline to one side I shall produce the testimony of such as are of the Congregational way
not condemn such Christians as having Pastors in the places where they live of meaner gifts do desire so they do it without open breach or contempt of the Churches order to enjoy the Ministry of such as have better gifts c. so they do it without contempt of their own Pastors and without scandal and offence to them and their People So again You ought not to leave your own Pastor at anytime with contempt of his Ministry as when you say or think alas he is no body a good honest man but he hath no gifts I cannot profit by him And as if he could not be too cautious in the case he lays down this as the Character of one that doth this innocently He only makes right use of the benefit of hearing such as have more excellent gifts than his own Pastors and learns thereby to like his own Pastor the better and to profit more by him That this is to be but seldom we have the concurrent testimony of the Provincial Assembly of London who upon this Question Would you have a man keep constantly to the Minister under whom he lives do answer We are not so rigid as to tye up People from hearing other Ministers occasionally even upon the Lords Day But yet we believe 't is most agreable to Gospel order upon the grounds forementioned Thus it is resolved also by one of a more rigid way who puts this Question Whether members of particular Churches may hear indifferently elsewhere and returns this answer God will have mercy and not sacrifice as distance of habitation handling such a point But most certainly members of Churches ought mostly to be with their own Churches The imagined content in hearing others is rather a temptation than motion of the Spirit From all which we may conclude that the pretence of better edification is no sufficient reason for Separation from a Church Worship or Ministry without there be other reasons that do accompany it and then it is not for this reason so much as those it is in conjunction with But admitting this yet it will hardly be granted to be a reason for Separation from the Church of England if the testimony of many worthy persons be of any consideration Thus Mr Hildersham declares when he is reproving such as make no conscience to come to the beginning of Gods publick Worship and to stay to the end of it he thus proceeds Because I see many of them that have most knowledge and are forwardest professors offend in this way I will manifest the sin of these men 1. They sin against themselves in the profit they might receive by the Worship of God There is no part of Gods service not the Confession not the Prayers not the Psalm not the Blessing but it concerns every one and every one may receive edification by it This he otherwhere repeats and saith By the Confession and all other Prayers used in the Congregation a man may receive more profit than by many other Of this opinion as to the most of the Prayers in our Liturgy were the old Non-Conformists We are perswaded that not only some few select Prayers but many Prayers and other exhortations may lawfully be used with fruit and edification to Gods People As for the word preach'd amongst us Mr Nye saith that there is a summ of doctrinal truths which in the enlargement and application are sufficient both for conversion and edification to which the Preachers are to assent And that the word of God interpreted and applyed by preaching in this way is a choice mercy and gift wherewith God hath blessed this Nation for many Years to the conversion and edification of many thousands And he afterwards ascribes the want of edification to the prejudices of People Such reasonings saith he against hearing though they convince not the unlawfulness of it yet they leave such prejudices in the minds of them which are tender as perplex and render hearing less profitable and edifying even to those that are perswaed of its lawfulness This M r Tombs declares himself freely in If we look to experience of former times there is now ground to expect a blessing from conforming Preachers as well or rather more than from Preachers of the separated Churches Sure the conversion consolation strengthening establishing of Souls in the truth has been more in England from Preachers who were Enemies to Separation whether Non-Conformist to Ceremonies or Conformists Presbyterial or Episcopal even from Bishops themselves than from the best of the Separatists I think all that are acquainted with the History of things in the last age will acknowledge that more good hath been to the Souls of men by the Preaching of Vsher Potter Abbot Jewel and some other Bishops by Preston Sibbs Taylor Whately Hildersham Ball Perkins Dod Stock and many thousands Adversaries to the separated Churches than ever was done by Ainsworth Johnson Robinson rigid Separatists or Cotton Tho. Hooker and others though men of precious memory promoters of the way of the Churches Congregational And therefore if the Bishops and conforming Preachers now apply themselves as we hope when the heat of contention is more allayed they will to the profitable way of preaching against Popery and Prophaneness exciting Auditors to the life of faith in Christ c. there may be as good ground if not better considering how much the Spirits of Separatists are for their party and the speaking of the truth in love and edifying in love is necessary to the growth of the Body Eph. 4.15 to expect by them a blessing in promoting the power of Godliness than from the Separatists So that whether we consider the Worship or Doctrine or the preaching of it the Church of England in their apprehension doth not want a sufficiency of means for the conversion and edification of Souls And consequently the argument taken from edification in justification of forsaking the Communion of it is inconclusive and of no force But this branch of it will be further confirm'd under the third general But however this will not be so easily quitted for supposing the Doctrine good and those that teach it capable as far as learning and parts are requisite to improve it to the conversion and edification of others yet if they themselves are loose and scandalous it may give just offence and be thought a sufficient cause to separate from the Worship in which such do officiate 3. Therefore I shall shew that the badness of the Ministers is of it self no sufficient reason to forsake the Communion of a Church or to separate from the Worship administred in it What holy M r Rogers saith is a great truth It is not to be denied but that the example of ignorant and unreformed especially notorious Persons in the Ministry hath done and doth much harm and if either they cannot be convicted or if their crimes be such as cannot remove them out of their places there is just
cause of grief that such should have any thing to do in Gods matters which are so weighty and to be dealt withal in high reverence But yet before the objection is admitted it is to be premised 1. That if there be such in the Church it doth not proceed from their Conformity to it For good and pious men of this sort always were and still are in the Church What there were formerly may be read in Mr Baxter who thus delivers himself When I think what learned holy incomparable men abundance of the old Conformists were my heart riseth against the thoughts of separating from them such as M r Bolton M r Whately M r Fenner c. and abundance other such yea such as Bishop Jewel Bishop Grindal Bishop Hall c. yea and the Martyrs too as Cranmer Ridley Hooper himself c. What there are now in the Church he also tells us I believe there are many hundred Godly Ministers in the Parish-Churches of England And of his own knowledge saith I profess to know those of them whom I take to be much better than my self I will say a greater word that I know those of them whom I think as Godly and humble Ministers as most of the Non-Conformists whom I know So saith D r Bryan In some Countries I am sure there are many Sober Godly Orthodox able Preachers yet in possession of the publick places 2. It is to be premised that this argument if of any yet is of no farther force than against the Congregations where such are and so is of none against the Church it self where are good as well as bad nor against Parochial Communion where such are not So M r Baxter argues I doubt not but there are many hundred Parish Ministers who preach holily and live holily though I could wish that they were more And what reason have you to charge any other mens sins on them c. or to think it unlawful to joyn with the good for the sake of the bad this is to condemn the sound for the sake of the infected Having premised this we shall re-assume the case and consider how it is stated and resolved by them 1. It s granted that it is not unlawful to joyn with bad Ministers in some cases where they may have better So M r Rogers As it is far from me to be a Patron of such or to justifie them so yet while we may enjoy the Ministry of better I would not refuse to be partaker of the Prayers which are offered by them 2. It s granted that its lawful and a duty to hear and joyn with such where a better cannot be had that it is lawful so M r Rogers Who can blame him who desireth to pray with better than they be And yet better to joyn with them sometime than to leave the publick Assemblies altogether So M r Baxter No People should chuse and prefer an ungodly Minister before a better but they should rather submit to such than have none when a better by them cannot be had That its a duty so the old Non-Conformists The Scripture teacheth evidently that the People must and ought to joyn with them unworthy Ministers in the Worship of God and in separating from the Ordinance they shall sin against God For the Worship is of God and the Ministry is of God the Person unworthily executing his place is neither set up by some few private Christians nor can by them be removed And warrant to withdraw themselves from the Worship of God because such as ought not are suffered to intermeddle with holy things they have none from God So M r Ball To communicate with Ministers no better than Pharisees in the true Worship of God is to worship God aright to reverence his Ordinances to relye upon his Grace to hearken unto his voice and submit unto his good pleasure This they maintain by several arguments As First Such were always in the Church and Communion must never have been held with the Church if no Communion was to be where such were So the old Non-Conformists argue If the Minister make it unlawful then all Communion in any part of Gods Worship with such Ministers is unlawful and so the Church in all ages of the World the Prophets our Saviour Christ the Apostles and the faithful in the Primitive Churches sinned in holding Communion with such when the Priests were dumb Dogs that could not bark and greedy Dogs that could never have enough when the Prophets prophesied lyes when the Priests bought and sold Doves in the Temple c. when they were such and did such things they were ungodly Ministers but we never find that the Prophets our Saviour and the Apostles did either forbear themselves or warn the faithful not to communicate with such in the Ordinance of Worship So much M r Nye doth grant More cannot be objected against our Ministers that Conform than might against the Scribes and Pharisees in Christs time either in respect of their Doctrine which was loaden with Traditions their standing which was not according to Law their lives which were vicious yet Christ not only permits but requires us to attend the truths they deliver Secondly They plead that our Saviour himself did Communicate where such did Officiate So D r Bryan In some Countries I am sure there are many Sober Godly Orthodox able Preachers c. And if you know any Country where it is worse consider if Christ himself did not joyn with worse This is attested by another Reverend Person Our Saviour Christ used to attend on the publick Worship in his time notwithstanding such formalists and superstitious ones as the Scribes and Pharisees did officiate in it Thirdly They say that the sin of the Minister is not theirs nor doth bring any detriment to them though they Communicate with him So M r Baxter A Ministers personal faults may damn himself and must be matter of lamentation to the Church who ought to do their best to reform them or get better by any lawful means but in case they cannot his sin is none of theirs nor doth it make his administration null or ineffectual nor will it allow you to separate from the Worship which he administreth So the Ministers sent to Oxford do assert Some evil men may and always have de facto been Officers and Ministers in the Church c. and the wickedness of such men did not null or evacuate their Ministerial Acts for our Saviour would have the Scribes and Pharisees heard while they sate in Moses Chair c. And that the Ministrations in such a case are not invalid and that the People suffer not by it they further prove 1. Because they officiate not in their own name So the Old Non-Conformists It hath evermore been held for a truth in the Church of God that although sometimes the evil hath chief authority in the
Ministration of the Word and Sacraments yet forasmuch as they do not the same in their own name but in Christs and minister by his commission and authority we may use their Ministry both in hearing the Word and receiving the Sacraments neither is the effect of Christs Ordinance taken away by their wickedness 2. The vertue of the Ordinance doth not depend upon their goodness but Gods promise So M r Rogers saith of Prayer If this burden of bad Ministers must be born I ask if among many sweet liberties we enjoy we may not joyn in Prayer with them if we can pray in faith seeing their unworthiness cannot withhold the fruit of Gods promise from us which is to one kind of Prayer as well as another So saith M r Cradacot of the Word Take heed saith he of being leavened with prejudice against the Ministry of the Word because of the misdemeanors or miscarriage of the Minister It is the word of the Lord which converts not the Person of the dispenser or speaker Hence it was that the Ministry of the Scribes and Pharisees was not to be rejected but to be esteemed so long as they failed not in the substance thereof c. I conceive its a rare thing for unconverted Ministers to convert and yet we must remember not to tye the efficacy of the Word and Sacraments to the goodness or badness of a Ministers Person So when it s objected How can we expect a blessing upon the labours of such though they preach truth Mr. Nye replys Answ. 1. The mixtures in Sermons are nearest the irregularities of their calling next the sins of their conversations furthest from their Doctrine and therefore have less efficacy at such a distance to prejudice it Answ. 2. It s Gods word and not their own they preach c. 3. That if Persons themselves do believe and are sincere they are notwithstanding such a Ministry accepted The sacrifice of a faithful Elkanah saith one was pleasing to God even when Hophni and Phineas were Priests From all which we find some declaring that notwithstanding this they would Communicate So a Reverend Person The Peoples prejudices against the Liturgy are grounded for the most part upon the wicked lives of those that are the most constant readers and frequenters of it doubtless the Author if he had considered this would rather have said that they are grounded upon the wicked lives of some of those that read and frequent it I shall never upon that account cease to joyn in Prayers and to hear Sermons Others we find exhorting their Auditors to attend even upon such So Mr R. Fairclough in his Farewel Sermons Get all good from shew all duty to him that follows If he should be weak or evil yet while he preacheth truths while he sits in Moses Chair hear him seriously and carry your selves towards him as becomes a People to their Minister I have thus far considered the case of scandalous Ministers because many make it an objection as well those that are not concerned as those that are Otherwise it must be acknowledged that England was never better provided with a learned and pious Ministry than at present who have as good understanding preach as good Doctrine do as much good by their Preaching as any others as a late writer doth confess But though many Congregations are well supplied with a Pious Able and Industrious Ministry yet there are few or none but what have some more or less amongst the Laity that are as it may be supposed not fit to be received into Communion with a Church or to be communicated with This brings me to the next thing in Worship which is 4. The case of mixed Communion This is a plea saith Mr. Vines that is plausible to easie capacities because it pretends to set up holiness of Ordinances and People but what the eminent Dissenters do utterly disclaim Mr. Vines saith it is Donatistical and others as Mr. Brinsley and Mr. Jenkin that its the common plea or pretence which for the moct part hath been taken up by all Schismaticks in defence of their separation from the Church and therefore that it is necessary the People should be untaught it as Mr. Baxter doth advise And as they do disclaim it so they declare that those that separate upon this account do it very unjustly that the scandals of professors are ground of mourning but not of separation that there may be a sufficient cause to cast out obstinate sinners and yet not sufficient cause for one to leave the Church though such be not cast â—ut That the suffering of prophane and scandalous livers to continue in the Church and partake in the Sacrament is doubtless a great sin yet the godly are not presently to separate from it There is saith M r Burroughs an error on both sides either those that think it concerns them not at all with whom they come to the Sacrament or those that if they do what they can to keep the scandalous away and yet they should be suffered to come that they themselves may not come to partake of it This both the Presbyterians and Independents so far agree in and for this their opinion they urge several Arguments First It s no where commanded but is a vain pretending to holiness above rule and example saith M r Vines It s no duty as he elsewhere saith because there is no command it s no duty and therefore we read not this word come forth in any of the Epistles written to the seven Churches against which Christ saith he hath such and such things They that lived in the impurer are not called forth into the purer but there are promises made to them that keep themselves pure and duties injoyned them toward the impurer part For we may not make every Disease the Plague Shall the Sons of God the Angels forsake the Lords presence because Satan came also amongst them c. The Provincial Assembly of London doth affirm In the Church of Corinth was such a profane mixture at the Sacrament as we believe few if any of our Congregations can be charged withal And yet the Apostle doth not perswade the godly party to separate much less to gather a Church out of a Church From which consideration Mr. Tombs concludes Sure it can be no sin in any Person to joyn in the true Worship and service of God with any if he have no command to withdraw himself from that service because of their presence nor power to exclude them and yet is bound to the duties there performed Nay they do not only plead that it s not commanded but that its forbidden and unlawful So M r Hooker To separate from a Church because of the sin of some Worshippers is unlawful So the New England Ministers do declare As separation from a Church wherein prophane and scandalous livers