other fancyes fictions of the Heathen As for example Zeus Iupiter was among the Heathens their great God he only was their highest of whom besides they held a 1000. fables and indeed he was none other but a Divell as is before noted Nevertheles the Apostle vseth the same for the only true God the author and governour of Heaven and Earth passing by all their Fables when he applyeth the Poets verse a Act. 2â— His generation also we are Tartarus which b Pag. 3â— you obiect though rarely sometime perhaps a Philosopher will note thereby the Ayer yet indeed vsually and in a maner alwayes they meant Hell by it with a thousand of dreames thereto belonging Yet Peter not canonizing nor commending their dreames and fictions of Hell notwithstanding signifyeth Hell indeed by that worde of theirs according to their common vse thereof and according to the proportion of truth which therein they held So Daimonion which also c Pag. ibâ—â— you obiect they vsed to signifie by it both good and bad Spirits following and conversing with them and the good they honoured as Gods But indeede and in truth seeing these same were all Divels therefore the Scripture holdeth not the Heathens erroneous meaning in this word yet it doth retayne that which they vnderstood by it truly that is to signifie Divells and bad spirits Againe Theos the Heathen vsed for to expresse the Nature of God but so as that they thought it coÌ„mon to many severall Gods The Apostles vse the word also for the true God yet not vnderstanding therein a nature common to many which error they otherwise cleerely and often refute And thus we might speake of infinit mo the like wordes as Feare the power and strength whereof they also fained to be a God and of Hope and of Revenge Goddesses c. Like wherevnto is Hades even that which presently we have in hande The diveâ—â— applicatâ—â— of Hadeâ— With the HeatheÌ„ it commonly and most vsually signified the state of Dead men somtime rarely the Destruction of other things which perish out of this visible world haue no more being heere Whereof anon we shall see further Howbeit now to consider it as it respecteth men only thus the Heathens chiefly and commonly by Hades vnderstoode the state I say and Condition of men both good and bad deceased and gone out of this world And they meant it commonly for the Destruction of their persons from out of this world generally and indifferently Againe oftentimes particularly touching their Bodyes buriall also particularly many things touching their Soules state being parted from the Body Some of which they believed were in Blessednes some in Tormentes although they signified neither of these in the word Hades but onely as I said their state after their departure hence Also they thought some of the Blessed Soules to be in the a chiefest Blessednes â—Vhich you â—â—iect pag. â—â—4 376. that was in presense with the Gods Yet they were in Hades also that is in an other world after they were wiped out from hence Hither they admitted onlie Philosophers Treat 1 pa. â— Heroês such like Thus hither it is that b Plato assigneth Socrates and thus Socrates him selfe hopeth to goe to Hades to the wise and good God Other Soules of good men they gave Blessednes vnto in the Elysian fieldes vnder the earth as they fancied or where els I know not And these were also in Hades So that both these estates and condicions of blessed Soules deceased which was their Heaven though differing very much in places they yeeldâ—d to be in Hades Whence I thinke some of the Fathers and after them some Papistes haue fayned divers places of rest and ioy to the Dead Heaven presently to the Martyrs but to other good Christians an other place of rest ioy which they called Abrahams bosome either in the earth or where they also knew not Howbeit into the glory of Heauen and the presence of God and of Christ they admit none save only the Martyrs before the last day But this errour and all other errors about Hades the Apostles sufficiently confute in their writings so that we are not now to respect the same in the vse of Hades Onely we are therefore to note how much and what besides all errours may bee truly retayned and meant by the Apostles in applying this worde Hades as the Heathen did to both sortes of Soules of Dead men They might truely vnderstand that both have one common condicion and state as touching their being in another world as they were dissolved departed from and wiped out of this visible world aâ— they were now in the world of the Dead an opposite estate condicion to the living This also the very Natural Etymologie of the word according to Grammar doeth properly yeeld in that it signifieth c Vnseene Hades The â—â—ke may be â—â—â—id of Sheol or Not seene any more in this world or an estate not seene heere with vs topos aîdes an Vnseene place as Plato calleth it Where note it cannot be referred to the estate of Angels because Hades is the vnseene state of them that once had a visible and ordinary being and conversation heere in this world So that in very deed it hath properly but a Privative sense not any thing positive in it though this d you can not brooke All this then the Apostles might well vnderstand allow in the word Hades Pag. 396. without any taint of Heathenisme And therfore also doubtles so they did But the heathens further made Hades a Divine power whom also they called Pluto as it were the God of Death or of the Dead because as before is shewed they dreamed that he held all that were Dead vnder his power both blessed damned soules And because no man that dyeth whether good or bad doeth ever live heere againe and because all whosoever without exception must dy therefore they call him Hades améilichos kai adámastos implaâ—able and vnmastered and Nélees êtor echôn having a mercilesso bea rt In which sense in Latin also they vsed Parca Destiny the ende of all because it spareth none Certainly this Deifying of such a Power or to make a God of it the Apostles abhorred and every where in their writinges they shew what Idolatry and extreame impiety it is But yet they may and do acknowledg such a power of Death which worketh this Destruction of all men froÌ„ the world detayneth them in Death afterward Wherefore they have in sundry places Prosopopoeas thereof as in the Revelation the Keyes of Death and Hades Death riding on a pale horse and Hades following after him Death and Hades yeelded vp their dead and both were cast into Hell Likewise that O Death where is thy sting O Power of death where is thy victory But of these more anon Hitherto the 1. observation is manefest that the Apostles vsing the Heathens words yet need not nor
faith that Christes Soule after death Ascended to Heaven remayned there till his Resurrection Namely the Analogy of faith requireth that the Head should bee there where the members were and where they remaine till their Resurrection that there he tary till his Resurrection It seemeth also these texts wil prove it a Ioh. 1â— Where J am there also shall my servant be b cap. 17 I will that where I am there they also shall be with me I see not but that he promiseth heere his servants even a locall accoÌ„panying of him after this life that also generally whither soever he went Moreover this the Fathers c Only Aâ— wavereth where afâ—â—â—ming foâ— where dâ—â—ting all with one voyce I may truly affirme do teach and believe even that Christ after death went no whither but where his faithfull and holy servants were yea and there remayned till his Resurrection To which consent of men somewhere you ascribe exceeding much so that d Perpeâ—â—vern episâ—â— 10. you plainly avouch the coÌ„trary alwayes to be a notorious if not a pernicious novelty To which purpose also other Scriptures doe make very much as where Christ being in the paines of death and presently about to end his life saith Father into thy hands I commend my Soule This being spoken at such a time in the depth of such wofull sorrowes and by such a person in all good reason Gods hands whereinto he commendeth his Soule according to our common vse of speach must be Gods ioyfull peace and Heavenly glory which is also suteable to the scripture phrase as already I have shewed â—reat 1. â—â—g 151. â—â—g 361. neither shew * you any thing against this For what if Gods hands on other occasions do signifie his Power and generall protection only Doth it follow that therefore Holy men oppressed with paines and now about to Dy when they say Father into thy handes I commend my Soule they meane not the ioyes of HeaveÌ„ You aske was David dying when he spake those words He might bee in deadly sorrowes or dangers for any thing you know to the contrary But suppose he were not theÌ„ in danger to dy Yet the Prophets generall sentence may fitly be applyed to this more speciall case of Christ as all men know Howsoever then David were when he spake thus yet Christ now dying ready to come out of most wofull paines doth surely meane when he said so as other holy men do in like case namely to go to Heavâ—n To like purpose serveth that comfort given to the Theefe and common to himselfe This day shalt thou be with me in Paradise As touching †Austius divers opinion and yours â—our p. 360 â—ag 29. see before Be you reconciled vnto him and then let him speake for you Lastlie where the eternal and generall Ordinance of God is shewed to be such â—â—â—k 16.26 that * none can goe out of Heaven downe to Hell nor come from Hell vp to Heaven The text excepteth heere not one This therefore I doubt not is in truth a cleere point against which wee shall find not a worde in scripture that Christes Soule after death was there where the holy Patriarkes deceased were there remayned till his Resurrection So that how you will doe to maintaine that Christ c went indeed vnto them 〈◊〉 220.361 but presently left them that hee might go to Hell I know not In this I doubt you walke f without your guide â—â—g 91. But to proceed I adde that which is a cleere and certaine 〈◊〉 189.193 〈◊〉 219. yea that which g your selfe rightly beleeveth and professeth with vs though against the opinion of the Fathers That the Soules of the holy Patriarkes dead before Christ were not beneath but above not in Limbo but with God in peace ioy blissee even in Paradice 〈◊〉 192.203 that is h Heaven The which to be a doctrine most true against the Popish errour heerein I have briefly i heerto fore â—â—eat 1. â—â—g 131. yet I hope sufficiently proved Therefore hence I conclude that Christs Soule after his death Ascended indeede and descended not downward beneath vs heere 2. Only except there be some speciall reason of good authority to the contrary which is the second point of importance heere to be considered Touching which this I say without expresse and evident Scripture there is in the worlde no sound nor meet authority to disprove our former Reason and Conclusion This also Austin himselfe avoucheth well and faithfully that is supposing there is no expresse nor plaine Scripture for Christs Descending then saith he a Epist â— Miror si quam ad ros cum dâ— dissâ— asserâ— auderet it were marvailous bouldnes that any should dare say he went down to Hel. And againe b Serm. â—temp 14 Nemo de Christo credat nisi quod de se credi voluit Christus No man ought to believe any thing concerning Christ but what himself in his word would have vs to believe Now I assume this and by Gods helpe shall make it manefest No Scripâ—â— at al that Châ—â—â— Soule asâ—â— death dâ— soended That there is in all the Scripture no one place whereby it may bee proved by any shew of reason that Christs Soul after this life went locally downward from hence or diversly from the Soules of all good men deceased besides Yea whatsoever is pretended from the Scripture expresly to prove that he did Descend is but very little and exceeding weake Script prâ—ded Only there are 2. or 3. places sensibly wrested and drawen to this purpose 1. c Your paâ—â— 212. That where Christ is said to have d â—ph 4. come downe into the lowest partes of the earth * Treat â—â—â— pag. 14â— But I have largely and plainly shewed that this place speaketh not a whit neither of Hell nor of Christs Soule descending locally neither before his death nor after It noteth only Christs sensible and apparant Humiliation to the last and lowest point that is to the Grave According to the Hebrue phrase which the Apostles frequented in their Greeke writings very much So that no reason appeareth why or how this place may shew that his Soule after death went downward The rather seeing you will have Christes going downe d Pag 41 to Hell the first and that a notable part of his exaltation and triumph But this was manefestly as I said his lowest abasement Therefore this toucheth not his going down to Hell Where e Pag. 2â— you expound the text say He descended to the lowest and ascended to the highest that he might fill all places with the presence of his Manhood you speake both f In respeâ—â— vbiquitaâ—â— inconveniently and far from the Apostles meaning Who signifieth only Christes filling g Ephe. 1. â— 19 all his Church with the giftes of his Spirit which by his Ascending he h Ioh. 16 7â— Luck 24 4â— promised
A DEFENCE OF A TREATISE TOVCHING THE SVFFERINGS AND VICTORIE OF CHRIST IN THE WORKE OF OVR REDEMPTION Wherein is confirmed 1 That Christ suffered for vs not only Bodily griefe but also in his Soule an impression of the proper wrath of God which may be called the paines of Hell 2 That after his death on the Crosse he went not downe into Hell For Answere to the late writings of Mr Bilson L. Bishop of Winchester which he intitleth The effect of certaine sermons c. Wherein he striueth mightily against the doctrine aforesaid By HENRY IACOB Minister of the worde of God Iohn 7. ver 24. Iudge not according to the appearance but iudge righteous iudgement 1600. To all the godly and religious Magistrates faithfull Pastors and other Christian brethren in England Grace and peace be multiplied in the true sufferinges and victorie of IESVS CHRIST our onely and most glorious Redeemer GIVE me leaue I beseech you Fathers and Brethren right honorable beloved in Christ in so great and necessary a case to reply and Defend my selfe in such wise as becommeth me against the vnseemely writings of a mā who indeed I aknowledg in the world is far greater then I am Yet forasmuch as the Cause which heere I maintaine is right and iust as to any man I hope it shall soone appeare that will simply and soberly trie it by the Scriptures Againe in regard of mine owne person and poore credit although meane in the world yet by Gods mercie such as in conscience I am bound by all honest and Christian meanes to preserue seeing he so strangelie traduceth accuseth me in his booke as is almost incredible I am therfore of necessitie as I take it to open my mouth at this time and specially in the behalfe of that doctrine which I am vndoubtly perswaded for the substance of it that hither vnto I with infinit mo in England haue truly faithfully taught And albeit I finde my selfe very vnequall to try any question with him who is so high in authoritie so prompt of witt so exquisit in learning my selfe in all things so despised and rejected as I am by him and some others insomuch that I might iustlie be altogeather terrified and wholly turned away were my cause neuer so good frō maintayning the same against him yet surely God is my witnes it seemeth to mee so easy and so plaine to defend togeather with the necessitie of duetie binding me as likewise indeed all mē els I think to stande therevnto that I could not choose but speake againe in this matter and cleere it againe so well as I can from his further weake exceptions and vnsufficient obiections against it Neyther let any man thinke that in thus doing I greatly please my selfe or seeme vnwilling to let others to vtter their iudgments heerevpon Nay surely it is the thing that heerein chiefly I desire even that others yea many others if so it may seeme good vnto thē would declare their mindes touching this new doctrine sprung vp from Winchester and likely to bring a common calamitie with other errors mo vpon our Churches in England because I feare that not a few among vs are wil be troubled therewith And so I doubt not but it will most amply appeare how Holy true a doctrine this is which he so disdainfully skoffeth at and reprocheth beeing well assured that even the most learned and godly Teachers in this land Defendours of the trueth against Poperie as wel before time as now at this day vnder our gracious Queene doe concurre agree with my opinion herein This if it shall please God that I may see it wil far more exceedingly please me to beholde then whatsoever myne owne vnskilfulnes hath or can vtter In the meane while I beseech thee Christian Reader consider duly with thy selfe not who speaketh but what is spoken by eyther of vs. As for me I am not ashamed to testifie with all duetie though after my simplicitie in the behalfe of the Gospell of Christ against mens improbable conjectures which my trust is that the godly and sober minded will take in good worth vprightly even as my heart meaneth it the Lord knoweth sincerely The grace of our Lord Iesus Christ bee with you all Amen H. I. A Praeface to the Christian Readers touching our 2. Questions and their Defense following IT is a iust thing with God deare brethren to punish in his dissolute people sinne with sinne and where one iniquitie is not repented to binde others therevnto Which thing surely we may to well see is com to passe and befallen vs in England deseruedly at this day Who after so long plentifull and comfortable enioying of the Gospell the most precious blessing of God in this life are now allmost generally com to this that we haue lost the loue thereof What remayneth then for vs when we set so light by this Heauenly grace forgetting our first loue which once wee seemed to beare towards it and wherein now wee ought to haue abounded but that God should punish this our hainous and generall sinne with others and among others send vs delusions euen strong delusions to broch beleeue lyes seeing we shew so small affection and so little pleasure in his truth The Lord in iustice then no doubt doth punish vs with such delusions of error as are now so rife in our land at this time more then in times past when as the Gospell hath ben soundlyer preached and better beloued among vs then now it seemeth to bee Now so much the more dangerous this mischief is as also it must needes proue yet still because it is offered vnto vs forsooth by the frendes of the Gospell and fathers of the Church as they desire to be called yet being indeed sole Commanders in Religion very Lords ouer mens cōsciences compulsiuely ouerruling their brethren and Gods deare flocke contrary to the “ Mat and 2 2 Cor. 1. Cor. 1. Pet. expresse Scripture and all well ordred Ancient and present tymes How needfull then is it that the Lords faithfull Remembrancers forget not themselues in these deceiptfull dayes nor that great charge which the great Pastour of the Flock hath layd vpon them but to bee watchfull and diligent and for no respect of persons to suffer any part of the gracious truth of God to bee disgraced by men chiefly that part and point if we can discerne what it is which by the corruption thereof raiseth and maintayneth most of our other vaine corrupt and contentious quaestions which now swarme among vs yet which easily would bee cut cleane downe if the word of God alone might beare sway as we see it to be brought to passe this day by the blessing of God in other Reformed Churches of forraine Countryes For my part being occasioned at this time more specially to speak of 2. of these foresaid corrupt doctrines J am not vnwilling though vnequally yoked to defend the truth in them It hath pleaseth Mr Bilson
them the Locall Hell eternall punishment Diminution of faith Holines c. with Desperation â—reat 1. â—â— 40 Reiection vtter darknes c As for my wordes which you wrest that way they are cleared by my Opening this Question both before and after Wherefore wee plainly tell you that we defie and detest in our heartes as well as you all these blasphemous wicked thoughtes of the Sonne of God our most glorious and gratious Redeemer And yet if you had vnderstoode those Phrases the whole Câ—rse of God His whole Wrath All the sorrowes of Hell onely toâ—ching the sense of Meere paines that Christ feeling the proper wrath and Iustice of God punishing him for our sinnes felt as extreeme sharpnes of paines which had no mixture of sinne as may in any possibilitie be endured yea though in Hell it selfe and so a kinde also of “ As in 〈◊〉 place I 〈◊〉 â—hew forsaking in them a kinde of * Such as 〈◊〉 self explaiâ—â—â— pag. 245 And as 〈◊〉 Curse is nâ— words bâ— deeds pa. Cursing and hatred and condemnation and a sense of burning wrath which he being our high Priest and Sacrifice was appointed vnto and which payment of ours was by God layed vpon him being our Redeemer and Ransompayer Surety and that all this he sustayned and suffered for a time in this life so deeply wofully as was possible for a man any where to suffer which was also wery God I say if this had ben your meaning we would not then hold it blasphemous nor erronious as “ Epiâ—p you obiect it vnto vs but the very truth indeed to say Hee suffered the true paines of Hell and the wholl wrath of God Which verily your own words also in some places do imply yea at least so much and that manifestly enough it seemeth as before I haue observed But to wade further then this and to particularize or to specifie the parts of Gods wrath which Christ felt as * Pa. â—47 you will vs to do or to shew the manner how or the certaine measure how deepely he suffered it what madnes were it in men to attempt and what folly is it in any to requier This sufficeth that we know God is able aswell out of the locall Hell as in it to reveale and inflict spiritually this wrath where he findeth sinne vnsatisfied and in Christ the vnion of his Godhead might admit it in his Manhood his Soule was capeable apt to discerne and feele immediatly the impression thereof in it selfe Now because also God was heere bent to punish all our most horrible sinnes in Christ and he was ordained to receave the same vpon himselfe and God was never to punish them truly any more nor any where ells and because of the proportion of Gods exact Iustice which dispenseth not where there is no necessitie for dispensation because also of Christes taking our wholl nature for no needfull purpose at all without this and lastly by reason of many pregnant texts of Scripture proving by infallible arguments that thus surely it was in this mystery of Christs purchasing our redemption which you in all your writing have no whit defeated therefore we are vndoubtedly perswaded that this is the very truth of God Namely as “ Treat 80.81.7 before I taught as touching the sense of paine and vehemency of sorrow that Christ suffered for vs All and wholly the wrath of God and his bitter Curse That is as I said so far as * Pa. 37. possibillity would admit so far as he being also very God and a man not possible to sinne could suffer Neither is there any peece of reason on your parte for the contrary And this is much more I trust then to suffer in Soule by Sympathy only from and by and with the Body Pag. 13.14 which as before I shewed you plainly do make the only wholl suffering of Christ for our Redemption which kindâ— of suffering all Godly men doe suffer also when the wicked in the world do afflict and persecute them But touching suffering of Martiâ—s and godly men Pag. 8.11 it is not intruth as †before is shewed of that kinde as Christes suffering was and therefore this suffering of the Soule onely by Sympathy commeth nothing neere to the sorrowes of the suffering of Christ which hee suffered from the hand of Gods offended Iustice and pure Holines and Wrathfull power infinitly satisfying it selfe on him for our sinnes which by his office he receaved vpon himselfe to acquite vs from the same This no Martir nor godly man doth who suffer only as from the malice and rage of men â—â—â—d therefore â—â—â—ey are so â—â—â—eerefull at â—â—â—eir Death â—â—â—hen Christe is extremeâ—â—â— sorrowfull from God there proceedeth nothing but fatherly chastenings to them his very wrath indeed for their sinnes appeareth not at all against them which they know Christ hath once borne and for ever dissolved You haue wordes in some places as if you hâ—ld this difference with vs of Christes sufferinges compared with the suffering of Martirs Namely where you say Pag. 248 Christ suffered the wrath of God punishing sinne â—ag 257 not * in his Body only but in his Soule also by some proper punishments of the Soule as by sorrow and feare in his Agony c. Howbeit though these wordes seeme plaine yet I perceave ambiguity and fallacy in them yea also I thinke a great errour First your fallacy is in that you meane sorrow and feare indeed properly in his Soule but not any proper Punishment of sinne nor comming for any paine or smart that he felt inflicted for sinne but it was meere Devotion to God 2 1â—4.23.9 144 290 Love pity compassion towards men Which say you could not be without some feare and zeale and griefe That is true but this is a notable fallacy For many thinke that you meane Christ suffered such sorrow and paine as was both proper to the Soule and was the proper punishment of sinne also But then had you heerein fully agreed with vs. Nowe that Religious Devotion godly and â—â—â—tâ—ous Aâ—â—tions and Pity are properly partes of Christes Holines and righteousnes not of his Sufferings for sinne For these 2. parts of Christes Mediation I trust you will distinguish And surely Christs Agonie was properly a part of his most bitter Passion not of his Obedience and Righteousnes albeit even in suffering also he was perfitly obedient Thus then you are never the neerer to the truth in this point for all your seeming Againe considering what you write of the wrath “ Pa. 130 132.246 of God which the Godly generally do suffer you seeme to me to thinke that every Martiâ—s death and all the crosses and griefes both of body and minde in the godly are very * For yoâ— make Gâ—â— Wrath â—â—â—ferent to men who afflicted punishments of sinne and right effects of Gods Iustice and wrath taking properly vengeance on them
yeeld vs an easier passage thorough the rest behind To com then to that which hee first * Pag. 2â— beginneth with where he laboureth very much to shew that hee mistooke not his Text wherevpon first he grounded his doctrine This I say that “ Gal. â— pag. 1. this Text whereon he * Pag. 3 groundeth and setteth downe the doctrine of the wholl meritorious contents of Christes Crosse as likewise of †Pag. 42 those effectes therof which he in his Treatise handleth I am perswaded is mistaken and that this place of Scripture intendeth not these things Gal. 6.12 It is manefest that the Apostle * heere reproveth the false teachers for mingling the pure doctrine of the Gospell because they were loth to taâ—t persecution which then followed the true and sincere professors thereof And so incourageth the godly to beare all Afflictions for this persecuted truth and for Christes sake Thus the Crosse of Christ here signifieth I grant Christ crucified Christ afflicted Christ persecuted not in his owne person only but also in his members Hee doth heere iointly togeather vnderstand by Christs Crosse the afflictions of the whole mysticall Body of Christ both Head and members which they commonly have in the world Which many shunned euen with Shipwracke of sincere Religion but Paul reioyced therein so much as in no worldly ioy like to it For so he meaneth when he saith God forbid that I should reioyce but in the Crosse of Christ not that hee makes it a thing detestable to reioyce in any thing ells Pag 227 as you imagine him to do It is lawfull to reioyce in other things besides the Crosse of Christ but it is not lawfull to reioyce in any worldly ioy so much or we are not to reioyce in comparison of our ioy which we ought to haue in this our shame and afflictions sustained for Christ for his Servants and for the purity of the Gospell Paul had very great cause thus exceedingly to reioyce heerein For 1. this was a token to men that he walked in the perfit way and a meanes also to himselfe so to doe 2. Because this his doing rebuked the corrupters and minglers of the Religion who would sustaine in the world no disgrace which followed the sincere course he thus incouraged also the weake professors to suffer willingly for the same 3. This indeed Crucified the world vnto him and him vnto the world as still it doth vs also These causes are both evident in the text and sufficient for Paul so exceedingly to reioyce in suffering for the pure Gospell Now hee cannot heere respect the meritorious and propitiatory Contents of Christs Crosse and so make it detestable to reioyce in any thing ells as propitiatory besides this suffering heere expressed which is the sense that you give vnto it I say this Paul cannot respect in this Word if hee include his own the Godlies afflictions But it appeareth by that before that indeed he doth include them all the circumstances imediatly following do also declare it 1. That which I touched before By suffering in the world for Christ for his simple truth Church sake the * Which your pâ—â— Text v â— world was Câ—ucified to him and he indeed vnto the world Also an other reason sheweth it †v 15. For in Christ Iesus neither circumcision nor vncircumcision avayle any thing but a new Creature That is a sincere vpright conversation being the fruit of a sincere and pure faith and profession which matter hee nameth a little before “ Gal. 5. Faith working by loue So by this Fruit he incourageth men as I said though there com shame and trouble therewith Also in the next place thus * v 16. And as many as walke according to this rule both of pure profession and conversation peace shal be vpon them c. howsoever in the world they have shame and trouble Lastly †v 17. hee willeth that no good Christian heerafter should put him to busines by seeking resolution of him whether for the pretended peace of the Church vnprofitable Caeremonies should be retayned with the Gospel for lo saith he my example sheweth you all my minde J beare about me the markes of the L. Jesus that is Afflictions for the sincere truths sake which I could by policy and wisdom avoyd aswell as those corrupters of Religion if I had no more care of the sincerity of the Gospell then they have This being thus it cannot be possibly that the Apostle should heere minde to name the particular kindes and all the meritorious partes or Contents of Christs suffering in this place but only hee incourageth men as I said to indure all afflictions for Christ and his truth sake Thus you are answered also in that * Pag. 22 you deny the Crosse of Christ in Scriptures to be taken for the Afflictions of the godly You see the Apostle “ ver 17 heere calleth the Afflictions of the godly the markes of the Lord Iesus also the afflictions of Christ in * Coll. 1. â— another place And in another “ 2 Cor. â— the dying of the Lord Iesus What are these in truth but the Crosse of Christ vnlesse you imagin some mysterie in the divers wordes when apparantly the matter is all one Also the very worde Crosse * Gal. 5.1 a litle before signifieth the Shame and hatred of Christ slaine on the Crosse togâ—ather with the shame of his ServaÌ„ts And thus also “ Pag. 22 your maine obiection is answered where you argue that Paul cannot be vnderstood * ver 12. to say that those false teachers would not suffer persecution for the Afflictions of the godly He may be vnderstood to say that he would not suffer persecution for commending the Afflictions and shame of good Christians for Christes sake which they ought to have done Then what sense or reason wanteth this exposition I knowe the roote and originall of their Hatred and disdaine was against Christ himselfe namely for his ignominious death on the Crosse But this excludeth not indeed it includeth in the Crosse of Christ Christs members the faithfull which are his owne Body and so consequently all their Afflictions for Christes sake Which the wicked and corrupt professors I say wil not commend as Paul did by suffering persecution in their own persons they will not by Suffering win credit and reverence to that way in the world Pa. 229 The Fathers which you bring hereabout overthrow not this sense but iustifie it rather Wherefore you cannot avoyd it yet but that it is still an oversight in you to vnderstand heere by the Crosse of Christ the Contents of his sufferings and to note his wholl and intire Passion in every part thereof as he merited thereby for vs which evidently the Apostle intendeth not neither is he about that in this place You say * Pa. 226 you drew no reason from these words of
lâ—sse to make his Sonne or his Sonne to make him selfe any such Suretie or Redeemer of Rebells as Christ was made and might be made of God for vs. So that also where you would have it to serve that we might perceave by this how Christ was not defiled nor hatefull nor guilty by imputation of our treason it is evidently to weak For you have not shewed neither can shew that this Kings Sonne was or ought to have bene such a Suretie Redeemer as Christ was that is vnto bodily death Therefore this Similitude cannot bee good We have other maner of warrant that Christ was by imputation made Sinne for vs and the Curse for vs and that this ordinance was holy and right and above all reproofe Which you can not bring for your Kings SoÌ„nes Suretiship nor for the Kings fact who kept not the order of iustice when he spared abominable Rebells without their bloudshed or when he slew his guiltles Sonne for them that they might be spared After this c he impugneth another reason of myne with marveylous skorne and detestation Pa. 183.284 That seeing Christ d on the Crosse spoyled principalities and powers Col. 2.15 and made a shew of them openly triumphing over them Therfore I collected that Christ there discerned and felt the Powers of darknes Sathan and his Complices as very instrumentes working the effectes of Gods wrath vpon him selfe Which as I conceave is no such foolish nor impious reason as he vainly pretendeth For doth not the very phrase and maner of speach import some such mightie contention and violent opposition where yet at length an absolut glorious triumphant victorie was obtayned Surely it doeth This then must be conceaved and felt by Christ neither could these be other effectes but onely of Gods proper wrath severitie and indignation against the sinne of the world which was matter of a Of som paine a tormenâ— opposition against Christ at that season it could not be the revealing of anie glorie or comfort which such instruments procured vnto him wrought vpon him Against this you bring not a word Nevertheles your high disdaine towards me breaketh out touching the maner how this might be But what is that to the purpose What if no toung can expresse the maner as neither have I once indeavoured to expresse it shall not therefore the testimonie of the H. Ghost be true that on the Crosse Christ obtayned such a victorie against the Divells which implyeth also such a Conflict first as I have observed Yet because you will needes examine the maner howe possibly this might be let vs see what you make of it The Divells saye you have nothing to doe with the Soules of men but eyther to tempt them or torment them First before I answer you directly this wee may consider Christ might and no doubt he did in his Soule discerne conceave and applie to him selfe all the rage malice How Châ—â—â— might be faulted by than on Crosse and violence of the Iewes tormenting him to death as set on fire by Sathan him selfe and by all the powers of Hell and these also as set on worke by the Iustice and severe Wrath of God now purposely laying punishment on his Sonne thereby to take satisfaction and recompence for all our sinnes Now this feeling and suffering in the Soule of Christ made an other kinde of impression in him and was infinitly more greevous and dolefull as touching the present sense then otherwise the meere outward stripes and woundes of men were or could be These conflictes of Christ on the crosse with Satans rage malice laboring if he could possibly by these meanes to have queÌ„ched the light of our Salvatio may wel be vnderstood by the Apostle in this place yet none of your exceptions do touch this argument Elswhere in your book you speak directly against the maine grouÌ„d of it affirming that God himself did nothing to Christ that is he did not pperly punish him Thus you say b Pag. 3â— God did not any thing vnto him And c Pag. 32. who did Crucifie him I pray you God or the Jewes And d Pag. 7â— He was indeed coÌ„demned by man that gave wrongful sentence of death against him but he was acquitâ—ed of God And e Pag. Christ was no more a Curse then he was Sin who indeed and with God was neither â—roperâ—â—â—hed â—â—st â—â—or 5 21 but with men he was reputed both wicked and accursed Notwithstanding the very trueth and Gods word it selfe is flat contrary to you For it is written a Hes made him Sinne for vs which knew no sinne that we should be made the righteousnes of God in him Yea b he made his Soule sinne Which is nothing els but that c the Lord layd vpon him or inflicted vpon him the iniquitie of vs all 〈◊〉 53 10. 〈◊〉 6.5.10 â—rem in 〈◊〉 8. 〈◊〉 4 28. â—â—m 8.3 Yea d the Lord delighted to bruise him and afflicted him or slew him And the Apostles doe acknowledge that e both the counsell and the Hand of God was in Christs punishment Finally f God sending his Sonne in the similitude of sinfull flesh and for sinne â—â—iac condemned sinne in * his flesh His CoÌ„demning of sinne in Christ was in deeds and not in words Gods own hand then did smite Christ and inflicted on him whatsoever he suffered as the condemnation of sinne Where yet we imagine not that God was moved with any affection or perturbation â—â—g 245. but as f you acknowledge the punishment or dayned for sin by the Iustice of God and inflicted by the hand of God whatsoever meane it pleased him to vse is called the wrath of God And then howe may we thinke Gods infinite Iustice power punished Christ Surely in all such respectes as he was capable of paines and punishments as from God Wherefore in his spirit certainly he suffered spirituall and incomprehensible punishmentes being no sinnes such as Mens soules are subiect vnto as from God In his Body also he felt bodily afflictions wch our bodyes can apprehend Some God himselfe immediatlie inflicted some hee inflicted by meanes and instrumentes but still it was his Hand principally which did what soever was done vnto him Neither can you say that Christs punishment was Gods meere and bare permission only Nay his punishment was his revealed and written will his expresse and publike ordinance and most holy appointment from the beginning of the world and now at last effected by his owne hand and by other meanes when the fulnes of time was come Wherefore the whole suffering of Christ was Gods owne and most proper action The wicked Iewes and Divells were only his instruments to doe that which he set them on worke to doe though they thought not so Now we come to answer you more directlie touching the text in hand Where you would intimate that Christ on the Crosse was not tempted by the powers of Hell because
Christ could not bâ—â— tempted by Satans inward suggestion but onely by the care receaving an outward voyce This I suppose also is a singular conceit of your owne without any title of Scripture to proove it by Yea what reason can you give that where the minde conceaveth any temptation there of necessitie must be Concupiscence Originall sinne a Pag. 1 Corruption of the flesh c. In vs men it is so you say I grant in vs it is so But that of necessitie in nature it must be so or that Adam was tempted by voyce of necessitie and not accidentally I see no reason in the world or that Christ might not be sometime inwardly assaulted tempted also without heaving any voyce Nay I suppose you have no reason to affirme as b Pag 1 you doe that Christ in the Wildernes was tempted by Sathan by outward voyce only It seemeth rather to be manifest that his temptation was meerely in cogitation and in the thoughts of his heart so mooved by the * Or els bâ— such outâ— obiects tâ—ther with 〈◊〉 work thaâ—rituall câ—â—tion in Câ—â— As SataÌ„ 〈◊〉 well knoâ— how spirituall suggestion of the Divell First because the text saith that Satan c Mat. â— set him vpon a pinnacle of the temple in Ierusalem and mooved him to cast him selfe downe Which was within the time of his fasting and hee fasted but fourty dayes and fourty nights and so long continually hee was d Marc. in the wildernes Seeing then Christ was in the Wildernes all the while that hee was thus tempted Howe could that bee really and actuallie done This was therefore in a spirituall Cogitation But chieflie when the e Mat. 4. Divell shewed him all the kingdomes of the worlde and the glorie of them and f Luc. 4. that in the twinkling of an eye how could that †Yea sibly it 〈◊〉 be don â—â—â—ally c ficellâ— aâ— you But onles it 〈◊〉 be Ergoâ— possibly be done really actually and externally Wherefore I must needs think that as Satan was a subtil Spirit so he could did sometime spiritually suggest temptations into Christes heart and Christ could in Soule conceave them and yet vtterly without all sin which we at no hand now can doe because we are all naturally apt and inclining to evill as Christ was not Yea the text to the Hebr. seemeth to prove it also Christ was tempted in all things like vs without sinne Then he was tempted both outwardly and also meerely within for so are we and this was meerely by conceaving and considering of Satans wicked spirituall motion in his Spirit which it was possible that he might doe without any yeelding to it though we by reason of our inborne corruptioÌ„ can not possibly doe it Thus then it was possible and most likely it is also that Christ was assaulted and wrastled withall by the Divels spirituall suggestions now when in most bitter Agonic he hanged on the Crosse Howbeit to goe further such grievous and bitter assaultes of the Divel he might receave outwardly also by his senses other wayes though not by Satans own voyce yet by Satans members meanes And so a â—ag 283. you say he was tempted of Satan all the tyme of his abode on earth Then so you denie not but now even on the Crosse Christ might be and was tempted and assaulted by Satan that is by Satans instrumentes moved and inraged by him And this is none other indeed but that which in the entraÌ„ce of †Pag. 77. this question heere I observed which as I have before shewed sufficeth to prove Christes Combating as it were and wrastling with the powers of Hell on the Crosse But b Pag. 284. you obiect against this that Outward temptation by the mouthes and handes of the wicked is no effect of Gods wrath No is Here you are cleane contrary to your self and the truth Elswhere c Pag. 243. â—63 275 you truly acknowdge that all outward crosses and afflictions small or great are in their nature punishments of sin and effects of Gods wrath Now those doubtles are temptations Then sure these outward temptations by the mouths and hands of the wicked such as Christ indured are effects of Gods wrath viz. his revilings his shame his poverty his stripes his woundes and death it selfe c. You say outward temptation is rather a try all of Gods gifts and graces bestowed vpon vs. And is not inward temptation in the Godly so to I pray what oddes is this that you make betweene the inward and outward temptations It is true this is one good vse of both these fortes in the godly in whom Christ hath sanctified all afflictions death it selfe Yet in their very nature they all are none other but partes of Gods Curse for sin very punishments of sinne and true effects of Gods wrath as in Christ they were all Further Satan might spiritually and extraordinarily worke togeather with these his instruments outwardly afflicting his body I say by these bodily occasions thus the rather working an impression of his malice and spirituall fury mixed with subtilty against Christ and Christ likewise extraordinarily might apprehend the same that is the rather by the concurrence and cooperation of those outward occasions with these spirituall incursions And thus might Christ suffer most strange temptations and incomprehensible sorrowes as very punishmentes of sinne from the furious rage of Satan and malice of wicked men whatsoever other vses they might have besides in him Heere now we may seed row vniustly you conclude that Satan could no other way assault Christ as an instrument of Gods wrath but a The veâ—â— wrastlings assaults of â—â—tan may bâ— ritual â—ornâ—â— though 〈◊〉 such as arâ—â— ecuted in locall He only by executing tormentes on his Soule even in such wise as he tormenth damned soules in Hell and that caÌ„ be say you no other way then by Satans very possessing of those soules Which grosse and infernall speculations of yours for truthes you can not make them I vtterly leave to your owne discussing For my parte I have spoken no word of them in all my treatise Notwithstanding this heere I avouch that howsoever the meanes or maner was of Satans and his furious bandes assaulting of Christ on the Crosse it made certainly an impression of most doleful sorrow and torment in his Soule as feeling discerning by that meanes the very stroke of Gods owne hand vpon him and receaving the sting of his wrath and indignation therein which then wrought and was revealed chiefty then vpoÌ„ him for all our sinnes Neither say you any thing whereby you doe or can overthrow this assertion Our authorised doctrine in England agreeth with me saying b Noweâ— Catech. He fought and wrastled as it were hand to hand with the whole army of Hell Finally heere where you skornfully reiect and detest this my sense of the Apostle in this place yet you give no inkling of any
soule properly also For the one standeth with Gods iustice and with the Nature of man in Christ aswell as the other So farre for this Then e you addresse your selfe against another â—ag 289. even one of the chiefest reasons of mine which I make from the straunge and incomparable Agoâ—ies of Christ in the tyme of his Passion These invaded him as we read principally at 3. times 1. in the foretast of his Passion shewed vs in the 12. of Iohn 2. In the Garden a little before his apprehension 3. In his very extreame Passion it selfe on the Crosse The Scriptures f heeretofore I rehearsed at full Treat â— â—ag 49. 50. â—oh 12.27 Mat. 26.39 and 44. Mark 14.33 â—uk 22.44 and 43. Mat. 27.46 â—ebâ—â— 5.7 whence these piteous and vnspeakeable Agonies of his are notified vnto vs. Whereby to all that duely consider it appeareth so cleare as the Sunne at noone day that The paines of his Passionâ— which plainly now he felt and feared because he knew he was to feele them further vnto death were the proper and direct cause of those Agonies But we assume that such straunge and lamentable things and behaviour in Christ were not the effectes only and meerelie of his bodily paines and death or of the feare of them Therefore Christ felt and indured more then his meere bodily paine and death by the testimonie of the Scriptures which thing a Before 14.25.5 you deny In your whole discourse you gainsay * Pag. 17 22. 23. 2â— 34. c. the Proposition that the paines of Christes Passion or the naturall feare of them was the proper and direct cause of those Agonies or that these Scriptures doe imply so much The Assumption you graunt and acknowledge that the meere bodily paines and death of Christ or the feare thereof were not the only nor the proper and direct Cause of these Agonies in him For b Pag. 29â— you are resolved that the cause of Christes Agonie could not proceede but from his Submission to God or Compassion to men or froÌ„ both These you name elswhere a c Pag. 23. â— religious Feare d Pag. 124. 20 21. Devotion and Pietie to God pitie to men c. And thus you resolutely denie my Proposition For you meane it seemeth that Christ suffered paines in his Soule by reason of the strength and zeale of these his Holy Affections and that these were the proper and maine Causes of that his most wofull and miraculous Agonie Complaint Therfore not any extraordinarie Paines inflicted vpon him by way of proper punishment as my Proposition intendeth But this your Assertion I simply denie that Christes Holy Affections his Piety and his Pity were the proper and maine Causes of that his most wofull and miraculous Agonie Complaint And then my Proposition standeth firme that his Paines inflicted on him by way of proper Punishment and Vengeance for sinne were the proper and maine Cause thereof Wherefore let vs try your proofes for it and then mine against it But before we com to them you must know that this your Resolution as you call it is first most vaine also directly contrary to your selfe and then altogeather vntrue and presumed by wide coniecture as God willing presently I shall shew For the first I hartily intreat the Christian Reader to marke wel to consider how your L. doth contrive 3. notable Equivocations in these few wordes Christ suffered in his Soule the wrath of God Notable Sâ—â— phistrie which you e Pa 243 24â— 245. 248. seeme to grant but in truth you do not and if we ad also the paines of Hell then hee opposeth a fourth fallacie against vs. And these 3. or 4. are the only Pillars of his Doctrine For the 3. former your first Equivocation is in this word Christ Suffered and about it wee deale in this place now The common and ordinary phrase of men vnderstandeth heerein His feeling of paines inflicted on him by way of proper punishment and satisfaction for sinne â—t Christes â—fering or â—â—lion is proâ—â—ly which he vndertooke for vs. Only this in the ordinarie and vsuall maner of speach is signified by Christes suffering or his Passion and so doe we alwayes vnderstand by it But you cunninglie take another rare sense of this word as it signifieth the Affections of the Minde in Christ wholly bent to Holines Righteousnes Obedience of God that so he might exactly perfitly keep his iust Law Which 2. partes of Christes Mediation are greatly differing â—â—e before pa. 18. 52. 64. and ought not both in trueth to be called His Passion or Satisfaction for sinne Therefore speake plainly I beseech you and deceave vs not call not this His Soules suffering but his Soules Holines Righteousnes And seeing you meane This was the proper maine cause of Christs Passion Suffering wheÌ„ he wrought his satisfactioÌ„ for sin now at the last end of his life chiefly I simply denie it 〈◊〉 Treat 1. pag. 68. 69. all Reason reclaimeth against it and to that which I alleaged for further reproofe thereof you answere nothing Your next Equivocation is in this See before pag 52. Hee suffered †in Soule your next in Gods wrath Both which I have plainly shewed before As also your 4. Before pa. 49. 19. * Fallacy which may be called Fallacia Accidentis But Sit I hope you will not thinke to beare downe all afore you with nothing but with cunning Before pag. 16. 53. yet vaine deceipt countenanced out with cruell and hatefull wordes Further you are in this your Resolution directly contrary to your owne selfe Before pa. 36. 64. as before I have briefly yet sufficiently shewed Againe where you censure your selfe very sharply for your resolutnes in this cause Pag. 17. * It is curiosity to examine presumption to determine impossibility to conclude certainly what was the true cause therof Thirdly “ Pag. 290. where you make but 2. causes submission to God Compassion to men elswhere but one * Pag. 23. Religious feare But †Pa. 17. c. before you very precisely made 6. If you agree no better w th your self I have small hope that you will agree with vs. Last of al this your resolution making Christs Piety Pity to be the only proper maine Cause of all his wofull Passion is vtterly false and vntrue having no grouÌ„d but meere coniectures But before I vnâ—â— my reasons against your Assertion Your 6. Causes of Chr. Agonie vntrue let vs view all your particulâ—â— Causes see if any one of the can be good †Pag. 18. Your 1. Cause is Sâ—â—mission to the Maiesty of God sitting in iudgemeÌ„t Against whom 〈◊〉 in what cause sate he now in iudgment when Christ was thus astonished Agonized therewith Of necessity it must be one of these three wayes 1. Gods Maiesty great iustice now at this time might sit in iudgement
â—â—bâ— 5.7 Againe if you meane that all this was voluntary in him and not felt indeede according to the outwarde semblance and as men beholding him would iudgâ— Luc. 22.43 then belike you make him to have counterfayted Which thought God for bid should ever come into any Christians heart For no cause you say f I iest and iybe with the Apostles wordes Pag. 302. but I feare this is to iest and iybe in deed with the most dreadfull and bitter sorrowes of our Saviour in working for vs our Salvation And heere why say you not aswell that his Death and bloudshed on the Crosse shewed in him no paines nor infirmitie but only that voluntarily he made him selfe there the true Priest and pe formed the prefigured bloudy and deadly Sacrifice for the sins of the world As good reason altogeather you have to say so as to affirme it of his Agonie â—ag 29. As for the Scriptures which g you cite they prove in deed that Christ nowe executed his office of Priesthoode but will you divide exempt his Death on the Crosse froÌ„ his Priesthood Or his â—ines and fit mity froÌ„ ther The sanctifying of him self doeth it not as well intend and comprehende that Sacrifice on the Crosse as that of his Prayers in the Garden To thinke otherwife is without all shewe of trueth or reason yet I see not why you should cite these textes vnles you meant so neither can I see what els you meane where you conclude saying Christs Agonie being alleaged by the Apostle to demonstrat Christs Priesthood must not rise froÌ„ the terror of his own death â—ag 27. And yet h a little before you openly doe confesse and grant that his Agonie did rise from the feare of his death and that Christ had farre greater cause then any of his members to feare it Also it is contrary to your citing of Cyrill pag. 25. And heere why should i Hilary deny that Christes bloudy sweat came of infirmitie â—ag 28. Or k Austin that his feare and perturbatioÌ„ was of infirmitie â—ag 25. Surely there is no cause For though it be against the coÌ„mon course of our Nature for any paines or feare to sweat bloud yet the Divine power with and through paines and feares might wring out of his body that trickling bloudy sweat As it is plaine that it did by the wordes next before in the text a Luk. 2 44. An Angell came to give him some comfort that is least hee should have bene overwhelmed quite in his sorrow and discomfort but still he was in his Agonie and swet like droppes of bloud trickling to the ground and presently saieth My Soule is full of sorrowes even to death and thrice he prayed that this Cup and this Hower might passe from him It cannot be therefore but that by Sorrowes and Paines this sweat came though also Gods power caused it by laying vpon his Soule and body invisible supernaturall vnspeakeable sorrowes and horrors and by making his fleshe visibly to expresse in some sort this spirituall and extraordinary torment of paine and feare which he suffered And in deed where they say 1 Not Infirâ—â—ty but Poâ—â—â— did this Nec infirmitas quod potestas gessit that proveth the cleane coÌ„trary For Jdeo infirmitas quia potestas gessit 2 Therforâ— there waâ— firmity â—â—cause thâ—â—â— was Powâ—â— For the working of his Power in him argueth the suffering of his Infirmitie The power of God is peâ—fited in infirmÃtie And because it was aboue the course of nature therefore nature was herein oppressed not exempted from paines Thus these speak fully for vs and against you that heere appeared not Christes infirmity only in suffering but his Divine power also in punishing And this I iudge in deed to bee their very meaning But those other mysticall and figuratiue sayings of Austin Pag 28. â— Bede Bernard howe shall we admit them without better warrant That Christes bloudshead was to signifie that Martyrs should shead their bloud what reason have we so to thinke Or that his bloud head should signifie the purging of his Disciples hearts froÌ„ sinne yea or of all his Church in the whole world It did not signifie this but it did it in deed Lastly if it had thâ—se significations in it yet withall his Agonie might rise from his very Paines Feare comming from the present sense of Gods iustice and wrath nowe revealâ—d and working vpon him Hitherto we have made it manifest that in trueth you have nothing in all these wordes against our doctrine that Paines and sorrowes were the true and proper cause of Christes dreadfull Agonie nor to prove that his meere bodily paines or death was the whole Cause Now we are to shew the like in his most we full Complaint on the Crosse where he saith My God my God Math 27. why hast thou forsaken me You will aske me heere what kinde of Forsaking may this be I shewed you plainly * Treat 1 â— 6â— 65 6â— before if you had regardâ—d it Namely that Christ being also now yea specially in the feeling of infinit Paines inflicted on him sundry wayes â—â—w Christ on 〈◊〉 Crosse was â—â—â—saken of â—â—â—d See also â—â—â—g 112.113 and that directly froÌ„ Gods proper Wrath for our sinnes he felt his whole Humane nature for the time left all comfortles and alone without any ioyous assistance of his Deitie I say not that he wanted now all assistanc of his Deitie for it surely would then have quite overwhelmed him with this intollerable burdeÌ„ But his Godhead as it were withdrawing and hiding it selfe from him for that season of his Passion gave him no sense nor feeling of ease comfort or ioy but all the sense of sorrowes and paines as well in spirit as in soule and body that might bee all the sense of his ioy and comfort for the while being cleane gone and wholy swallowed vp in that huge bottomles gulfe of sorrowes and paynes issuing vpon him out from the fierce Wrath of God Howbeit yet even nowe he wanted not sufficient assistance of the Deitie to sustayne him in life heerein as I said Phil. 2.7 Rom. 8.32 â—eut 10 17. â—â—c 16.17 This was that extreeme humiliation and exinanition of nature wherein †God spared not his Sonne and wherein also Christ spared not him selfe For hee vndertooke all this most willingly and yet being in it naturally grieved and sorrowed for it at some moments being astonished with it suddenly and naturally desired ease and release from it This forsaking or dereliction beseemeth the time place person and case of Christ our Ransom-payer and Purchaser of salvation with the price of his owne most direfull paines Pag. 24. c â—â—â—r 6. Expoâ—â—â—ions of â—hristes CoÌ„â—â—aint are all â—â—â—isse Not any other farre fet or hardly applyed or strangely devised by the braynes of men As in trueth all those other senses heereof are which you rather imbrace
now in Hell seeing you seeme to belieue no torments for Damned soules save only at the Resurrection For thus you reason b Pag. 25 As the Body hath ben the instrument of the Soules pleasure in sinne so it shal be of hir paine c Pag. 20â— But all provocations and pleasures of sinne the soule taketh from her body all acts of sinne she committeth by her body Therefore the iustice of God both temporally and eternally punisheth the Soule only by the Body Or Therefore all the Soules paine for sinne both temporally eternally is by the Body This is your owne reason which being true why should you care for corporall fire in Hell before the last iudgment Your striving to a Pag. 34â— confute my allegations of Fathers I hope I have refuted sufficiently before And then b Pag. 35 Sir Refuter endeth as be began with egregious lyes What lyes began he with and with what doth he end In the begining our lyes have proved tales of truth and in the end your wordes will prove iniurious at least I said that not som or the most or best but even all every one both Churches Writers in the world who are Protestants teach as we do except only your selfe or happily som after you since the year 1597. What ly is there in al this Why name you not in al the world one man of those whom we call Protestants of your minde that it may appeare who deserveth such rebukes Nay in this being the very point of the matter you are silent in revilings outcryes and accusations you exceed Where I avouch that c Treat â— pag 8â— only the hoatest and cunningest Papists Iesuits Priests Fryars have alwayes vntill this day had this controversie with all Protestants and all Protestants against them namely Bellarmin Campian English Rhemists c. To al this scanalous suspicious argument you reply not a syllable What shall we thinke of such doctrine which in this learned age hath none but such defenders And yet among the Papists I noted 2 Cusanus and Ferus as liking of the Protestants doctrine heerein which also they do in some other matters Now these 2. and only these though more there are c you cite at large 〈◊〉 140.141 whose wordes indeede especially the Fryars seeme excessive But our owne most worthy and learned Teachers d M. Fulke â—rea 1. p. 88 M. Deering M. Whitakers which against you I alleaged you vouchsafe not a looke towards them Nor to M. Nowels Catechisme nor to the Synod authorising it â—efore pag. 42. nor to the Archb great * approbation thereof Not to our Common Bibles note authorised publikly to be read thorough out England Only against my alleaging of our Homilyes e you take exception Pag 355. but I trust I have before fully and cleerely defended them to bee for vs and against you Neither doeth any such matter appeare in them as f you avouch Pag. 136. Thus then I end our 1. Question being sorry that I have ben so long But I trust the friendly Reader will pardon me considering how I have ben occasioned therevnto A brief Collection containing the whole effect of our Doctrine before delivered brought into 4. Assertions God himselfe in his Iustice properly punished Christ for our sinnes See pag. 8. 9. 75. 82. Christ even as other men consisted of a perfit Humane immortall Spirit and a mortall living Body and so was by nature capable of suffering sorrows for sinne from Gods hand aswell in his Spirit peculiarly and properly as also in his Soule and Body togeather sith other men do thus suffer for sinne pag. 8. 48 52. 61. 74. Gods exact and immutable Iustice spared his Sonne in nothing but did punish him in all severity as he punisheth sinners I meane Hee punished him in All his partes of nature apt to suffer that is in his Spirit peculiarly and properly and in his Soule and Body togeather also Againe God punished him with all the Whole Generall Curse not with all the particular Curses and punishments with the Generall Curse in all the whole Nature and substance of it not with all the Circumstances with all the meere Paine and Sorrow thereof not with the sinfull Adherents and concomitants in it pag. 8 13 74 86. Gods exact immutable Iustice spared not Christe in these Circumstances of Punishment with he suffered not For either in exact Iustice he could not or necessarily hee needed not to punish him so In exact Iustice he could not punish Christ in such respects as were simply and absolutly impossible It was simply impossible that any touch of Sinne should once come neere his person or Eternall suffering or all the Particular punishments in the world All which come not to any one man though Damned neither can come Finally that Christ should necessarily have suffered after this life or locally in Hell there was no cause seeing these are but meerâ— Circumstances of Gods Iust PunishmeÌ„t of sinne whether now or then whether heere or there These alter not the nature of Gods wrath which is the strength of Hell The whole substance nature of that Punishment he might feele in this life aswell as any parte God is able to inflict it aswel heere as heereafter The rather seeing Christ came and was sent of God Extraordinarily of purpose to suffer for sin all that he might suffer Thus then only in this life Christ might and did suffer all For so was Gods ordinance and will as it is plainly expressed vnto vs in his word Therefore so we professe and so we believe by the certaine rule of Gods word and the proportion of faith Christ shunned for our sake nothing which the Damned suffer except only Circumstances and Accidents impossible or vnnecessary not any Substantiall point of Gods Punishment decreed against sinue pag 13. 14. 16. 43. 66. 75. 87. 134. 135. That Christ after his death on the Crosse went not downe into Hell in his Soule THe 2. part of our Controversie is this That Christ after his death on the Crosse went not downe into Hell in his Soule Where note first Notes that we vnderstand Hell properly and locally as our common speach in English doth vsually take it for the very place of the Damned after this life Now against them that belieue Christes Soule did go down locally into Hell thus I reason Reasons gainst Châ—â— Descendiâ—â— locally is Hell First If there be a good and sound generall reason in Christian faith that Christes Soule leaving his Body ascended vp to Heaven and there remained till his Resurrection and if there be no speciall reason of authority to the contrary that his Soul now descended downward then surely every good Christian ought to believe that his Soule ascended to Heaven and descended not locally into Hell Two maâ—â— points to noted But both those former pointes are most true First There is a good sound generall reason in Christian
for his general phrase implying that al the Deceased both good bad were apud inferos vou do so whip him handle him g Your pâ—â— 387. 3â— heere that it seemeth you forget by whom your selfe hath profited and that even he in time past hath ben your Teacher I will not now enter into any defense of Cicero his speach and language will defend it selfe Also that were to leave our maine purpose But it is the lesso strange that you vse Cicero thus for others also have had the like correction at your handes with him â—â—g 310. a Before Torence scaped not And b heere Plato and Socrates and other Greekes have also their partes 〈◊〉 374.378 for their vsing and taking of the Greeke worde Hades so largely as the naturall Etymologie thereof doeth beare But let them defend them selves whether they speake vsuall and right Greeke and Latin or no I will leaue them in that They are eloquent enough they can speake in this case for them selves Only I will take their wordes at their handes evens as c I finde them and so I refer the iudgement of all to the learned and wise Reader 〈◊〉 also all 〈◊〉 forenoted â—â—â—ned Wâ—â—â— have loud 〈◊〉 vsed 〈◊〉 likewise â—â—g 385. Also for that charge against me of d lewd lying and open falsifying of Plato I remit all to the indifferent Reader Yet I can not but smile truly for offended I will not be that Mai. Bilson is so strongly perswaded that c I am of Platoes and Ciceroes religioÌ„ touching Hell â—â—g 370. 〈◊〉 389. Heaven the Gods and wicked Spirites and that I seeke indeed to bring in their fantasticall Hell into our Christian Creed This fantasticall conceit of his let him feed him selfe with it and let him perswade it to whom he can Thus much the sober and indifferent Reader will consider and acknowledge that the Holy Apostles doe teach the Heavenly trueth with the very wordes and Grammar of the Heathen men wherevnto that serveth which is written of them f We every man heare them speake in our owne tounges and languages wherein we were borne 〈◊〉 2.8 11. Then the Apostles surely spake according to the currant speach before their times and in their times and yet thereby never g Canonized the fables and fancies which the nations implyed in their wordes â—â—g 368. Whosoever he be that will say otherwise knoweth not what he saith neither shall any credit or greatnes which he hath get him credit in so saying Yet in a certaine place you most strangly and confidently avouch h That neither with the ancient Maisters of the Greeke tounge which were Poets â—â—g 410. 〈◊〉 1. Treat 〈◊〉 97.98 â—â—to in â—â—done â—m iliad 1 â—â—lutarch â—rallel â—â—nsol ad 〈◊〉 nor with the 70. nor with the Writers of the New Testament nor with the people of that time Hades did ever signifie the world of Souls without any limitation of state or place I thought that those fewe allegations which I brought of * Plato †Homer and Plutarch for the Greeke and of Latins for the Latin would haue suffised to cause you not to deny so cleere and manifest a trueth which heere you denie even against your owne knowledge as after shall appeare Wherfore to demonstrat this point a litle further to you and to al men if any yet doe believe this your assertion which is most vntrue I will not thinke it to much to note some more places out of the Heathen authentike Greekes for that is the principall controversie that Hades with theÌ„ did signifie the World of Soules with out any limitation in the very word it self either of state or place But as all men know that by reason of Circumstances it often signifieth with theÌ„ Hell determinatly Note so by reason of circuÌ„stances also it signifieth with them many times determinatly the HabitatioÌ„ of the Soules of good men in ioyes and pleasures which was to them as their Heaven And for this I will only put you in minde of some places which you know well enough already First note that common epithet or title of Hades Hades tâ—â— worlde Soules 〈◊〉 the Auther Greeks a Lycopâ—â— Hades pandokeus or pandocheus The vnseene worlde or state of Death that receaveth all both good and bad b Hom. 〈◊〉 15. Heâ— in Theâ—â— Others imagin Hades a God or mighty power power of Death do cal him eneroisin kataphthimenoisin anassôn Ruler not of Hell only but of all that ' Dy. And therefore to this place com not the wicked and damned onely but the noblest and best also as Achilles saith being dead and being in Hades c Hom. 〈◊〉 λ. Aidós de katélthemen éntha te nékroi Hither into hades all we that are dead do come This d Plato Gorgiaâ— Plutarcâ— Consolâ— Apolloâ— Plato and Plutarch do acknowledge in that place which e Pa. 37â— you cite at large togeather with a number mo both of the Poëts Philosophers And this also it is that Homer shewing how Iupiter cast down his rebellious Angels into Hell Tártaron with them the proper place of the Damned hee describeth it to be so much beneath Hades the place of the other Dead f Hom. hoson ouranos esti apo gaies as heaven is from the earth So in regard of this it is that g Sophoâ— Aiant another maketh it to be much better to be in hades as it is the common place and condicion of the dead not Hell then to be sicke vnrecoverably kreissôn aida keuthôn e nosôn mátan And so Plutarch maketh Hades not Hel but the place of the Dead or the stare of the dead in generall to be a soveraigne comfort to the afflicted miserable in this world h Plutarcâ— swering Aeschyâ— O Thanate paian iatros molois Limen gar ontôs aidas an' aian Aiden d'echôn boethon ou tremo skias Lastly that which i Pag. 37â— you bring of Orpheus describing the true God that he is King both of the Vnseene world aithéros ed'aïdou and also of this present visible worlde ponton gaiéste tyrannos confirmeth all that is before said For aither aides heere is to be construed togeather not separatly and so he signifieth thereby that the true God indeed is Lord and King not onely over this whole Visible world which he vnderstandeth by the Sea and Land but also over the whole Invisible world or ayer that is over all the Dead both good and bad I marvaile therefore very much what you meane to speake so plainly contrary to the truth and to your owne knowledge that Hades did never signifie the world of Soules without any limitation of state or place no not with the ancient Maisters of the Greeke toung which were the Poets The rather this your speach is directly against your knowledge because you expresly collect and confesse the contrary that is the same which I do â—ag 403. thus you say a Hades
before the Apostles time extended to good and bad pag. 371. And within Plutoes kingdom vnder the earth which they call Hades as well the places and pleasures for the Good â—ag 379. â—â—â—d in Hoâ—â—r Virgil â—istophanes â—â—pides and â—â—ers you shal the World â—he Dead â—he world of â—â—es be they 〈◊〉 or bad to â—â—in Plutoes â—â—gdo which Greekâ—â—â—ts call â—â—les as the prisons and punishmentes for the bad are in their conceit prepared and setled Againe b Hades with them was the Ruler or place of Soules were they in rest or paine Where you make a strange answer that Christian Religion will assure that this place must needes be Hell What That place where some good mens soules deceased are in rest Is this Hell Yea is it Hell in Christian Religion Who then henceforth will care for Hell if some soules haue rest and pleasures in Hell But you say also that those Heathen Greekes did thinke that this place of Soules was c vnder the Earth It is true they thought so indeed and it was their error as also the very same was the Christian Fathers errour likewise Which they drew certainly from their acquaintance with those Heathens 〈◊〉 379.381 〈◊〉 Hades it â—â—â—fe imporâ—â—â—g no such â—â—â—ng but no where at all from the Scriptures Yet none of these thought this place to be very Hell where soules were in rest There is small rest and few pleasures in Hell But these Heathens d vnderstood Hades chiefly for Pluto the Ruler of this place vnder the earth 〈◊〉 371.374 So that though the place were also called Hades yet this was but secondarily I answer This is questionles vtterly vntrue For rather the Place or the Estate of the Dead was first originally called Hades The God thereof whom afterward they idolatrously imagined they did conceave secondarily in respect of the place or thing Which beside the evidence of the matter I am perswaded that Plato Plutarch do shew also plaine enough even heere where you cite them Howsoever this is not maternal nor to any purpose whether the place and state were with theÌ„ first and chieflie called Hades or whether the fayned Power of death and Ruler of the Dead as they imagined were first and principally so called This is certaine that this Power or Ruler which they conceaved to be over the Dead as they like Idolators made it a God so their meaning was to esteeme him as the God of the Dead in Generall and his state and kingdome to be the c Which â—â—ing a priâ—â—â—pall pomâ—â—â— our quaâ—â—â— is fully gâ—â—â—ted by yâ—â—â— before HabitatioÌ„ of the Dead in generall not of the wicked only in Hel but of the good also in their Elysian happines which was to them in their estimation and reckoning that which Heaven indeede is to vs. But “ Pag. 39 you say there is no one place in truth common to all soules departed this life but som are in Hel and som in Heaven I doubt not but the blessed in Heaven the Damned in Hell are both in coÌ„dition situation seperated a funder exceeding far Yet nevertheles as they are somwhere w th in the coÌ„passe of the created world so they are in a coÌ„mon place opposiâ— indeed to this visible earth world of the living but coÌ„mon to al the Dead namely in this only respect as they are Dead departed hence are vnseene vtterly exempted froÌ„ all mutual medling togither with vs that do live Moreover we stande not so much on this that by Hades must be vnderstood any one place coÌ„mon to all the Dead but the State and condition of death among the Dead or the Power and Dominion of Death which very aptly also it serveth for and fitteth our purpose aswell as to vnderstand there by a common place But indeed all this I doubt not Hades very well may signifie when it is referred to men according to the circumstances of the authour where it is read But this Hades you say in those Heathen authors “ Pag. 3â—â— 378 41â— is the very Divell himselfe Therefore his Kingdome must bee needes nothing but Hell I answer The Heathen in their conceit thought him not to be a Divell but a * Vâ—z that 〈◊〉 or of dâ—â—â— which by 〈◊〉 is somâ— signifieâ— God even the God and Ruler over all the Dead and so they worshipped this foule Idoll Therefore his whole kingdome region they reckoned to be the World of the Dead or Dominion of Death which also they called Hades It may be f Pag. 37â— Porphyrie meaneth that they held him to bee Lorde and Ruler over Hell and all the wicked Spirits and Divells therein yet he saith not but that Hades or Pluto was thought by them to have power over all the Dead his rage against men and the feare that men had of him signified the vnmercifulnes of Death sparing none and how it is to the nature of all men a thing most terrible So that they esteemed a part indeed of his Dominion to be Hell peculiarly but a part also to be the Region of the Happy which was their Heaven But you say this was the Divell Yea even as the rest of their Gods were also very Divells indeed nothing els So was their Highest Jupiter and so was Apollo and so was Mercury and all the rest of the Goddes and Goddesses which their impiety adored They were indeede none other then very Divels illuding the vanity of men And thus I grant was their Hades or Pluto likewise Howbeit in their estimation he was not properly the Divell but a Power or Ruler over the Dead both good and bad and his Kingdom the Dominion and world of the Dead both good and bad Pag. 171. But a you remit Poets and Pagans vsing this word to the alleagers Yet Poets Pagans are the authentike maisters for Grammar both Greek Latin Yea they were yours I doubt not in time past Before pag. â—70 Austin as we saw alloweth the Etymologie and naturall propertie of hades to be regarded Yea all learned men in all ages condemne this your reiecting of Pagans and Poets for the Grammaticall vse of wordes whom still they do regard and follow in this respect But heere let vs observe how the holy Apostles doe teach the truths of the Gospell with the very wordes and language of the Heathens â—bservations There are in this point 3. or 4. thinges that must bee well observed and remembred 1. The Apostles doe speake of the mysteries of true Religion with the Heathens words as I said yet so as that when the Heathens wordes do imply some errour with truth then in other expresse places they plentifully refute al their errours implyed in their wordes Whereby it comes to passe that all the proportion of truth which the Heathen signified by them is yet fully and rightly signified still in the Apostles vse of them but nothing further that is none of the
do nor vnderstand in them any of their fancyes and errors which by their doctrine otherwise they refute nevertheles they may and do vnderstand the generall truth signified in them whatsoever the Heathens vsed by them to signifie and imply And thus is our worde in controversy Hades cleered But to cleere the rest also of those which b Pag. 36â— you obiect Sec we are to observe that the Apostles transfer the Heathens Civill words many times to their Ecclesiasticall vse namely keeping yet still the proportion of their former sense As in these Apostle Bishop Deacon Gospell Law Sinne Repenâ—ance Hope Conscience Concupisence c. Which change is small and easy sith the words have a iust proportion still togeather both in Civill and Ecclesiasticall vse Onely if any difference or oddes be it is expresly vttered in some part of the Apostles doctrine besides There is no such cause nor matter of difference to be found in Hades Third The Apostles do vse some wordes kat ' éxochen by an excellencie yet in no point altering the native vse or property of them â—â—â—a all the 〈◊〉 before â—â—â—med or â—â—â—t oâ— them 〈◊〉 â—e conâ—â—â—ed also â—â—â—er this â—â—â—e â—ag 403. a Thus Scripture is vsed commonly for the Word of God only Diábolos for the Divell although sometimes other writings are called also Scripture and other Accusers and slanderers Diaboloi But neither hath this consideration any place in Hades that in Scripture it should signifie chiefly Hell much lesse only Which thing b you avouch Lastly Som think the Apostles altered the worde Faith from the Passive sense of it importing Faithfulnes and honestie as the Heathens commonly vsed it to the Active sense which is True beliefe or Trust vsed in the Scriptures which you also obiect But I suppose the Apostles tooke this Active sense of the word Faith froÌ„ the Old Testament meerely translating the Hebrue into Greeke For I see not what difference at all there is betweene c Pistis â—â—â—om 1.17 â—â—â—bac 2.4 and d Emunah whereby the Iewes signified Faith to salvation Which is reason enough for this vse thereof in Greeke by the Apostles namely if it bee a Hebraisme though it bee not very suteable to the Heathens vse thereof The like I iudge of Elder Law Sinne c. But Hadès for Hell hath no like reason Further I think even the Heathens have vsed this word Faith sometime Actively as the Gospell vsually hath it likewise the Gospel abhorreth not altogeather the Passive vse of it for Faithfulnes Lastly if it were so that the Apostles did follow no other reason but meerely transferred that word from the Civill passive to the Ecclesiasticall active vse we say on necessity they might do it For having some Spirituall doctrine to deliver and the ordinary speach wanting some fit word for the same then they might yea of necessity they were forced to take some word neerest in nature and sense to their purpose so they might give to that word a peculiar Ecclesiasticall vse further then anciently it had But Hades for Hell hath no help by this reason they tooke the word Gehenna from the Hebrewes and vsed it properly for Hell Therefore they need not alter hades for that purpose for which they had another proper word It is manefest then that the Apostles stil kept the proportion of the sense in all their words translated from the common and vsuall speach of the Heathen so far as any reason of truth might be alike in both so they spake indeed still the tounge and language of the Nations and therefore Hades with the Apostles can not be properly Hell as even with Heathens also properly it was never I suppose yet you will say The Fathers take Hades for Hell I answered a Pa. 1 before how they sometime take it determinatly and strictly so they signifie Hell by it Somtime they take it largely generally according to the Ancient Heathens vse and so they signifie by it nothing but the generall state of Death pertayning alike both to good and bad deceased as I have declared Thus you get nothing by them albeit sometime theâ— restraine the worde Hades more then they ought to restraine it Heere also were place to have added somwhat for iustifying that I said The Fathers do alter the ancient true vse of som words both Greeke and Latin from whom in controversies we ought to appeale to their authentike vse in Scripture and Classicall authors But because b Pag. 3â— you send me about ChirotonÃa to another place I am content to examine what you have there to the contrary Which seeing it draweth me into further matter therevnto appertaining I will differre for this time Hitherto we have tryed the nature and vse of Hades and have found it to be not properly Hell as c Pag. 1â— 171. 40 you avouch No not when it is applyed to soules of men deceased And therefore also that it can not be so vnderstood in Act. 2.27 where it is applyed to Christs Soule after he was dead Which yet is the only place that you have to pretend How thâ—â— in Act. â— may siâ—â—â— and trâ—â—â— vndersâ—â—â— Now something more you bring for your purpose from the Circumstances of this Text which we must consider But first let vs simply and plainly vnderstaÌ„d the same according to our former true declaration of the nature and vse of Hades Where the text is Thou wilt not leaue my Soule in Hades or to Hades we may simply take Hades for the invisible state or place of the deceased And so supplying the defect of a word which must be vnderstood thus we may say eis ton topon or chôran hadou in the place or region of the invisible state or b Aithér dou Or before pâ—â—â— 173.17 World of the Deceased Otherwise we may take it simply for Deaths force strength and power supplying also the same words eis ton topon or ten chôran hadou in that place where the power and strength of Death prevaileth and holdeth the deceased Soules from their Bodyes This is the World of the Dead implying nothing ells but ap estate opposit to our Visible estate in this world Thus may hades be fuly taken sith I have largely proved before how Hades Thanatoâ— Death are in effect all one and may both be applyed even to iust mens Soules deceased but hades more easily naturally Last of all we may take hades heere by a Prosopopoea conceaving it to be as it were som Person of vnresistable power taking away withholding from hence al mens Souls departed Howbeit this power was controlled and loosed by God in Christes Resurrection And then we may construe it thus eis ten chóran topon or oikian Hadou in the place region or habitation of this mighty power Or eis to kratos exousian dynamin or epikratian tou Hadou to the strength power or dominion of this Destroyer of life Thus howsoever we take it though
that is the DominioÌ„ or power of Death were cast into Hell â—â—v 20.14 I said it was absurd to say Hell was cast into Hell You answer it is more absurd to say the world of Soules was cast into Hell Where you doe but dally and play with words â—t â— e woâ—â—â—e â—e Deaâ— Aâ—â—ally For I vse not that terme * the world of soules though it may be named sometime in a good sense Which you will by no meanes conceave only you delight much to sport your sâ—lfe with it Our answer theÌ„ is this There is no absurditie to say that at the last day when the * last enemy shal be destroyed then Death â—â—â—ore pag. 2. and the power of Death or the Kingdome and Dominion of Death shal be cast into Hel that is eternally dâ—stâ—oyâ—d abâ—â—ished shall râ—turn to the Divell whâ—â—â— they came To say many soâ—t that theÌ„ Hell phalbe cast into Hell souÌ„deth sensâ—les in my â—atâ—s Although you meane the Contayning to bâ— put for the Contayned Hâ—ll for the Divels of Hel and that the Divels shalbâ— theÌ„ cast into hâ—l fire Yea although one Andreas â—eda vnderstand it so likewise For neither you nor they it â—â—â—meth do cosidâ—r that this place assigneth them to Hell then at the last day who yet are not in Hell but shal be then cast into Hell â—nd destroyed But the Divels are a 2 Pet. 2. Iâ—d 6. in Hell already reserved in eâ—â—rlasting châ—mes of darknes Therefore the Divels cannot be vndâ—â—stood heere by Hadâ—s that they shal be then cast into Hel seeing â—hey are already cast in to Hell for ever Death and the Power thereof being the last enemie that shal be dâ—stroyed is not yet but shal be indeed at the last day aboliâ—hed swallowed vp of Hell Lastly â—eere is shewed the most general vniversall rendring vp of all the â—ead whatsoever to iudgment But Hel plainly hath not all the Dead Death the world of the Dead or thâ— Dominion of Death have all Therefore Dâ—ath Hades heere do not signifie properly the Divâ—ll Hell but this only that Death and the vniversall Dominion or power of Death yeelded vp to iudgment al the Dead both great smal both good and bad to be iudged according to their workes Thus it is evident and cleere that Hades no where in the â—ew Testament doth signifie properly Hel as you say it doth Thus also that is concluded fully and perfitly which my 2. Reason †Pag. 15 before affirmed that you have not one place at all in the Scripture to prove that Christs Soule was in Hell b Act. â— 2 One place only you have stood vpon that Christs Soule was in Hades but that helpeth you nothing at all as we have seene You must prove indeed that Chriâ—ts Soule was in Gehenna if you would perswade any man of knowledg which you shal never do Gehenna in the New Testament is properly Hell but Hades is never properly so taken as I hope it is sufficiently before proved Therefore the Concluâ—ion is good To thinke that Christes Soule was ever in Hell is a thing that ought to be vâ—terly denyed Yet heere we must consider a maine obiection of yours â—ven those words of our common Creed Touching Câ—â—â—◠〈◊〉 which vsually in English wâ— vtter thus He descended into Hell originally 〈◊〉 is He descended into Hades And in truth this is all that you have to allâ—age for your opinion â—swere But I answer 2. wayes First Admitting then Denying the authority of thâ—se words in our Comon Creâ—d 1. Admitting the authority of these words yet Not as sufficient not as Aposâ—â—hâ—all but such as may be fâ—oÌ„ godly and sound Christians wâ— affirme that we can well vnderstand them according to the Scriptures vse of Hades rightly viz that Christes whole humane Person came vnder the power and Dominion of Death or that he dâ—caying in this world * falling down from that state of life wherein a while he flourished went absolâ—tly from hence into the world of the Dead 〈◊〉 before 〈◊〉 153. according to the law of nature which all other men follow likewise when they dâ— How this sense doth fully agree also with the mindes of the ancient Fathers generally we have at large dâ—clared c before Pag. 166. Pag. 1â—4 But this serveth not your turne therefore you will needes inioyne vs d 3. Rules to be exactly and prâ—câ—sâ—ly kept in the expounding of these words namely 1. Distinction of matter 2. Consequence of order 3. Propriety of words You must know that we can be no more strict Note nor more religious in observing the Ciâ—cuÌ„stances of matter order even in the holy Scriptures themselves then you inioyne heere to be observed in these words of men Might not these godly men think you misse in som such Circumstance or light point although the Scripture can not Or if they might why impose you such strictnes on our consciences about mens words as if heere were no possibility of any the least missing or imperfection How beit we admit your 3. Rules also 3. Rules and will observe them sufficiently First these words He descended to Hades may very well expresse a Distinction of matter differing from all the words heere besides They naturally and properly signifie as before we shewed that Christ came to vtter decay in this world and being taken hence was gathered in both partes of his Manhood dissolved wholy intirely to those who were departed before him into another world Or ells thus that he came vnder the full power e before Pag. 192. Dominion of Death Now either of these differeth verily from meere and simple Death â—vian â—â—â—â—â—â—ce â—eaâ—h For to Dy propeâ—ly is nothing els but the going a sunder of the Soule from the Body That other is to be wholy razed out from the presence and sight of this world also a remayning vnder the possession and strength of Death and a going to the society of them in another world g. 192. These indeed are f differing points and degrees in Death albeit in effect generally they bee all one with Death that is they be necessaâ—ily consequent alwayes conioyned vnto Death Againe if those wordes in the Creed were only but a more emphaticall phrase of through and perfit Dying and Departing hence if there were in them no further DistinctioÌ„ of matter then so yet this were enough to distinguish them froÌ„ the other words Dead and Buryed This is cause enough especially in the Ancient times when men suppose this Creed was framed when Christs Humanity and naturall Death was by al meanes subtilly and violently oppugned after a short worde signifying his Death and Buriall yet for more emphasis sake and for further Viging the same to addâ— this other short familiar phrase importing no other maine matter then was before noted but only a more effectuall and more absolut signification
thereof Which in trueth these our wordes in question doe well performe He came vnder the Dominion of Death or Went to the societie of the Dead following presently after these wordes Dead Buried And thus your 2. Rule alse Consequence of order is rightly kept For euen in respect of time it is certaine that Christs whole person perishing froÌ„ hence was wholy ioyned to the Dead after the precise separation of his Soule and body which was his Death And his Buriall being the visible part thereof in good reason may be set before that which signifieth the whole contayning also his Soules invisible going vnto the Dead Lastly if there be no more in this but a stronger emphasis meerely a more full-signifying phrase it might well come after termes of lesse emphasis Your 3. and last Rule Proprietie of Wordes is plainly for vs and against your selfe For that which we strive for is the a Pa. 157 169 17â— native and proper sense of Hades even according to the etymologie of it and according to common vse You if you vrge it to signifie Hel do indeed make a †Pa. 171. Figure in it viz. Synecdoche a part for the whole as before we haue shewed As for the other word heere in the Creed katébe or katélthe Hee descended or came vnder it is not necessarie to take it alwayes to signifie a locall going downe specially thus ioyned with Hades For thus it may aptly lively shew the fall or whole casting down of a mans person from the state of life to death and vtter destruction out of this world as also men are said to stand vp and spring vp when they live Or it may serue to expresse the Force and Dominion of Death which Christ came vnder when he dyed Or the abasement and humiliation of Christ yeelding submitting him selfe so farre that is not onely to Dy but also to come vnder the strength and force of death by lying held subdued as it were for so long time in it All this the very property of the word katebe admitteth very easilie and Ruffinus liketh it where he interpreteth this phrase â—uffin in â—â—mb Descendit in mortem He descended vnto Death If any thinke this to be somewhat figurative yet it is verily so familiar and easie to all people as that other word in this Creed is He sitteth at the right hand of God yea it is farie easier indeed And heerein all the later famous learned and godly Restorers of Religion in a maner doe ioyne with vs as Mat. Bucer P. Martyr Bulinger â—â—slitut Olevia c. Yea M. Calvin liked this also wel enough though yet he seemeth to leane more to another sense viz. Christes Hellish sufferings which indeed is a true doctrine as before is declared though to this place of the Creed I thinke not so fit Now these men your L. ought not to skorne nor reproch though you have leave to deale so with me Their pietie learning and authoritie is such with all that love the Gospell as will overwaigh your big wordes and high lookes and whatsoever els you are lifted vp withal aboue our mediocritie Hitherto we haue answered admitting the authoritie of these wordes He descended to Hades But wee are in truth to know â—ere that as you cite them and vige them they have no such authoritie credit as hitherto we have yeelded vnto them And that for 3. causes First for that your TraÌ„slating and terming them He descended into Hel is corrupt partiall and vntrue Which I trust is manifest by that which I have shewed before touching the true property natural vse of Hades If you say among vs all men do so speak heere and translate hades Hel. I pray you coÌ„sider that this article as also I think this whole Creed was at first written in Greek and not in English Wherefore the English terme how comon so ever must not preiudice vs nor the truth in this matter as very vnreasonably a you indeavour to make it to do â—â—g 420. Convince vs evidently and soundly by Greek authoritie that Hades is alwayes Hell or that Hades is never applyed to the condicion and state of the godly deceased and then I will yeeld or els my sufficient proofes before to the contrary will convince the vntrue and partiall translation Another reason to deny vtterly the authority and credit of these wordes He descended to hades so to hold them vnable to make any argument as from our Creed is because this speciall clause of Christs descending to Hades or to Infernum is new and lately put into our vulgar Creed called the Apostles Creed b Ruffin Symb. Ruffinus witnesseth who lived about 500. yeeres after Christ that it was not at all in the Creed in his time I say not at allâ— neither in the Romane Creed nor yet in the Creed of the Easterne Churches His words are these Sciendum sanè est quod in Ecclesiae Romanae symbolo non habetur additum Deseendit ad inferna sed nee in Orientis Ecclesiis habetur hic sermo Will you say Ruffinus lyeth Or can you bring to the contrarie any proofe I think not yea I am sure you can not Then if there were no such Article as this nor anie such wordes any where in the Creed for the space of 500. yeres after Christ I mervaile what authoritie they haue now to be taken necessarily for a distinct article in our Creed and as differing materially from Dead and Buried Sure it is a Namely Desâ—â—â—le Hades to new to be receaved for doctrine which b Pag. 13â— sprang vp so late Yea thus c Erasm 〈◊〉 Symb. Caâ—â— 4. Erasmus may seeme to haue some colour for his coniecture that about Thomas Aquinas time they might peradventure be put into this Creed Third we can not see but that whensoever whosoever put it first into this place they signified heereby it seemeth that Christ went to Limbus a place vnder the earth where they imagined the blessed Patriarkes rested For this was indeed the opinion generally of the ancient Christians even for “ Limbus inter tayâ— before Châ—â— descendinâ— bades waâ— our set â—câ— oâ— the Crâ—â— a long time and stil is retayned among the Papistes though now growen much worse theÌ„ it was of old But this you iustly coÌ„demne as an error as wel as we how generall and how ancient soever it be Now also though this were the 1st meaning of this Article whensoever it fiâ—fte tooke place in the common Creed yet this was not Hell this giveth no furtherance to your assertion that Christ went into the place of the Damned in tormentes But Thaddaeus Jgnatius Athanasius haue these very words Yet they say not any where that they were in that set forme of the Apostles Creed * Which â—â—deed they 〈◊〉 had not which we now have Also they are cleane against your opinion heere as presently wee shall see You will say yet
They are 6. in number The 1. is that when Christ on the Crosse cryed out My God my God why hast thou forsaken me by this word me he should meane His Church For the which you have no reason in the world but the bare names of Austin Leo Athanasius Shew me their reasons See before â—ag 28.29 presse not their authorities Which your selfe also reiecteth when you list though when you list againe they must be your best yea your only reason But even these Fathers if they be vnderstood Pag 79. as * before I have shewed Cyprians meaning to be that Christ spake these wordes as doing now the part of the Suretie of his Church and as standing in the case of his Children whom now by his suffering paines he saved then they agree iust with our minde herein For then doubtles it was for the infinite paines which now he felt in our steed that he so cryed out My God my God why hast thou forsaken me Otherwise if you thinke they meant that Christ spake this by some strange Metonimy naming him selfe but meaning his Church that can have no good sense For how can it be that we were forsaken of God when Christ was on the Crosse Nay even there and then were we “ Act. 20 purchased vnto God not forsaken by God Againe your owne rule is which I like well that no Figure is to bee admitted in Scripture where there is no ill nor hurtfull sense following literally But I have shewed a little before a plaine easie and Christian sense heereof taking it literally that me signifieth Christes owne person namely his Manhood bearing nowe as our Suretie intollerable paines inflicted by Gods wrath vpon him and so he may mourne sorrowe that he was forsaken that is left in vnmeasurable paines with out feeling of any comfort or succour for the tyme. Wherefore neither you nor any of the Fathers ought to conceave that me heere should signifie not Christ properly but the Church Figurativelie What other construction you can make heereof I can not discerne Finally this 1. sense is contrary to your 2. and 3. following also to your 5. and 6. senses If eyther of these be taken as the true meaning of this place it cannot possibly stande with the rest although you allow them all as by and by we shall manifestly see Now then your sense what is it Even this that Christs humane nature was left helples to the rage of the Iewes which is a kinde of forsaking This seemeth to come neerest indeed to your liking by that which I observe in a Pag. 13 you But as I said this is directly contrary to your 1. sense to the rest following Also b Heere 11.50 before we saw how greatly Christes sufferinges specially on the Crosse differed from such as the godly doe also suffer Yea there is surely no reason nor shew of reason that Christ heere should so mournfully and so vncomfortably complaine that God had forsaken him if it were only but for such distresses as the godly also doe equally suffer at the hands of evill men Seeing most of theÌ„ at the hower of their martyrdoms doe never vtter any such shew as Christ heere did of a minde vncomforted Where also note this well that no godly man not Martyr did ever ascribe this forsaking of themselves to God in the time of their martyrdomes For though then they are oppressed with greater violence of bodily enemies yet they are assisted with far greater abundance of heavenly comfort even in the middest of the paines of death So that they never mourne nor complaine at such extreme dealing as Christ now did when hee said my God my God why hast thou forsaken me Wherefore it is a great shame to imagine that Christ was lesse able to indure such a dereliction or that he would thus complaine and mourne for it only Pag. 35. The bare names againe of c Austin Ambrose Hierom doe heere likewise no good This is but a weake kind of reasoning for so learned a Divine as you are Although also these very sentences of the Fathers I can easily admit if they import no more then they seeme namely that these outward afflictions on the Crosse were some cause and that not small of his complaint alwayes remembring that some greater cause also did concurre was conioyned with them Your 3. sense if I conceave it a right is that his being lâ—ft to bodily death caused him thus to mourne which is but as the last before And yet you seeme to meane not onely that but also because his d flesh now should want all feeling of his heavenly comfort for that while â—n that you 〈◊〉 His Godâ—â—ad deparâ—â— nowe froÌ„ 〈◊〉 body c. that it should remaine dead A marvelous exquisit far fet cause Yet me thinks as this crosseth your other expositions heere so it is flat contrary to the Scripture also which giveth after a sort to Christs dead Flesh this lively affection 〈◊〉 2.26.27 e my flesh shall rest in hope because thou wilt not leave my soule to remaine as all other flesh dying doth in the vnseene worlde of the dead neither wilt suffer thy holy one to see corruptioÌ„ Is it likely is it possible that he should so dolefully mourne that either he should bodily dy or that his body should want the sense of his divine presence so little a while when as in his mind hee speaketh so triumphantly of his constant and continuall ioy in God yea not excluding even his body though dead from participating in some sort therein as we read in the former place at large I beheld the Lord always before me for he is at my right hand that I should not be shaken Therefore did my heart reioyce my toung was glad moreover my Flesh shallrest in hope c. Now can a man in this exceeding generall and constant ioy so vncomfortably mourne in that sense as you vrge My God my God why forsakest thou my flesh It cannot be Many thinges more may be strongly alleaged against this opinioÌ„ As first seeing he perfitly knew thath as his flesh now should quietly rest and have a present ende of all his most bitter sorrowes so even all that while continually after his soul which was his best part should inioy perfit glory and comfort more then before it did Also seeing this senseles rest of his flesh was to be but for a very little while then presently to receave a most glorious and eternall felicity iointly with his Soul and with his Deity who can imagine that Christ would now ready to dy so extreamely mourne and complaine only for this cause as your fancy importeth Further he knew perfitly that this was the very appointment of God and for the fulfilling of Prophesies for the obtayning of his most desired purchase of our health for the more advancing of Gods glory yea and for the more advancing of his very