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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A20964	The waters of Siloe To quench the fire of purgatory and to drowne the traditions, limboes, mans satisfactions and all popish indulgences, against the reasons and allegations of a Portugall frier of the order of St. Frances, supported by three treatises. The one written by the same Franciscan and entituled The fierie torrent, &c. The other two by two doctors of Sorbon. The one intituled The burning furnasse. The other The fire of Helie. By Peter Du Moulin minister of Gods word. Faithfully translated out of French by I.B.; Accroissement des eaux de Siloé. English	Du Moulin, Pierre, 1568-1658.; Barnes, John, fl. 1600-1621, attributed name.; I. B., fl. 1612.	1612 (1612)	STC 7343; ESTC S111086	158,344	552

this Doctor opposeth himselfe against a corporation of Romish Doctors an Vniversity and the Councell of Trent 2. The not reiterating of baptisme against the Anabaptists which is the same with the baptisme of young children for the Anabaptists doe rebaptise those whom we haue baptised as holding baptisme in infancie to bee no baptisme 3. Rom. 8.9.11 Ioh. 14 26. 16.14 The proceeding of the holy Ghost which is proved by the places where he is called the spirit of God and the spirit of Christ and the comforter whom the father sendeth in the name of the sonne which taketh of the sonne c. 4. The consubstantialitie of the father and of the sonne Which is proued in this That the sonne is God Ioh. 1.1 Even our great God Tit. 2 13. consequently one God with the father for there is but one God 1. Cor. 8.6 and being one selfe God they are by consequence one selfe substance Wee haue also S. Iohn in his first Epistle cap. 5. who saith thus There be three that bear record in heauen the Father the Word and the holy Ghost and these three are one 5. He would haue said Anti-dicomarianites or Heluidians The perpetuall virginitie of the Virgin Mary against the Anti marianites but this is no point necessary to salvation The seemelinesse rather then any necessitie induceth vs to beleeue it 6. The translation of the Sabaoth to the Sonday An article not necessary to salvation Apoc 1 I was ravished in spirit vpon a sonday yet doe we see by the Revel 1.10 and by the 1. Cor. 16.1 and by the Act. 20.7 that this Institution was made in the time of the Apostles 7. The celebration of the feast of Easter against the Quarto Decimanis Which also is of no greater importance to salvation witnesse the censure and reprimendum sent by Ireneus to Victor Bishop of Rome who skirmished fiercly in that quarrell This Epistle of Ireneus is extant in the Ecclesiasticall historie of Eusebius lib. 5. cap 23.8 That there are but three persons in the Trinitie a matter which neither the holy Scripture nor any mā that ever had any one drop of common sense did ever studie to perswade for in a dualitie there can be but two in a Trinitie three 9. Lastly he bringeth in The washing of the Apostle's feet which saith hee wee cannot proue to be no sacrament therevpon hee great lights De Maiorit obed tit 33. Can. Solita quanta inter solem lunam tanta inter Pontif. Reges differentia Arist Phis li. 4. cap. 4. the greater is the Pope and the lesser is the Emperor and kings as saith Pope Innocent the 3. These our Masters I say so full of their subtilties and invention in their explications which according to the doctrine of A●axagor as doe draw all things out of al things could they not aswell proue these eight points by the scripture as we with all our doltishnesse haue foūd them out without any difficultie But the truth is that it was no want of invētiō in them but lack of good meaning And these defects in the Scriptures doe they seek out the rather that we might not thinke much that in the Scriptures there is no speech of painting of the Trinitie of worshipping of Images of fetching soules out of Purgatory by Popish Indulgences of their Pastors abstinence from marriage of th●● 〈◊〉 ●ctions of meats to be brief 〈◊〉 their traditions In these consi●●●●ns it stādeth them vpon to ab●●● authori●● of the Scriptures 〈◊〉 accus● 〈◊〉 of imperfection Yet is it their sur●● course to prohibit the people from re●ding of them and from learning any thing but at their mouthes who haue most interest in the suppressing of thē and doe reape most commodity of the peoples ignorance I could therefore wish that the auctors of these torrents fires and furnaises would lay their hā●● to their consciences if they cā find any and vpon their doctorall faith tell vs whether this vnwritten words these letters of credence be not a means prepared by the Pope thereby to forg●● new articles for his commodity A secret corner wherein to coine false mony and to clip the word of God The●● consciences must say yes they are ove● wise to be ignorant thereof but worldly reasons carry them away in som● hope of gaine in some feare and in some worldly devises doe speake lowder and haue greater voice in the Chapter house then conscience In as much therefore as the word ●f God contained in the old and newe ●estament is the only and sufficiēt rule ●f our faith and that Purgatory if wee ●eleeue our adversaries is to bee belee●ed as an article of our faith that vn●er paine of damnation it is strange ●hat God in the old Testament having ●rdained sacrifices expiations for al ●orts of sinnes and pollutions even to ●he Leprosie to the bloody flixe ●nd to the touching of any dead ●ody c. did never ordaine any expi●tion sacrifice satisfaction or pray●r for the soules that were in Purgatorie The ancient Patriarkes good ●ervants of God Abraham Isaac Iacob ●oseph Moses Aaron Iosua Samuell or David never desired after their deathes ●o be prayed for neither did themselues pray for any that was dead that God would vouchsafe to bring them out of Purgatory True it is that they bewai●ed their dead but among al their mournings weepings fastings and lamentations wee find no path to purgatory neither any one prayer to fetch the soules of the deceased out of Purgatory and indeed such lamentations and fastings were made even for the wicked such as died in Gods displeasure As for Saul to whom it was said by the Pithonesse not many houres before his death that God was against him who also died soone after his consultation with the witch David likewise bewailed Absalon who died in rebellion and treason against his owne father yet for such saith the Church of Rome wee must not pray How grievous were the teares vpon the death of Iacob and Moses who as holy and rare lights of the Church could never bee confined into Purgatory The high Priest of the Law never granted Indulgences neither made any intercession to abridge this so scalding a punishment neither did they that died make any foundations of services Pag. 16.18 or sacrifices to redeem their soules out of this fire Here doth our frier seeke a starting hole but the clef● is to straight for him to creep through He complaineth that In liew of seeking the true light in the law of Grace that is to say the Gospell we looke for it in the darke and obscure law of Moses To speak plainly he refuseth the old Testament as an incompetent Iudge for the darkenesse thereof But to this obiection wee doe answer that indeed the prophecies of things to come and the ceremonies of the old Testament are not so cleere easie as the Gospel yet are Gods Commandements therein laid down in

say that if it be spoken of Baptisme it cannot bee vnderstoode but in case of contempt That is to say if any man that may bee baptized hath opportunitie to cause himselfe to be baptized doth notwithstanding in cōtempt reiect it such a one cannot be saved of which baptisme S. Peter in the 3. chapter of his first Epistle maketh mention likewise of this washing of the soule speaketh Zacharias ca. 13.1 which the Church of Rome calleth Baptismus flaminis Whereas in the 7. of Iohn Jesus Christ said that Out of his belly that beleeved in him should flovv rivers of life S. Iohn addeth that by this water he meant the holy Ghost which they shoulde receiue that beleeved in him also as in the 3. of Matthew v. 11. It is said that Jesus Christ baptizeth or washeth vs with the holy Ghost with fire is meant with the holy ghost warming purifying our harts so that to bee borne of water and the holy Ghost signifieth to be regenerat by the holie Ghost washing and cleansing our harts which is a phrase of speech familiar among men and vsed in the Gospell as in S. Iohn the 14. 6. verse I am the waie the truth the life in liew of saying I am the true way to the life Of the limbo of the Fathers The fourth place is the Limbo of the fathers mothers that is to say The fourth place of such persons as lived before the comming of Christ There were say they Adam Eue Noah Abraham c. vntill that Jesus Christ vpon the day of his resurrection in his returne from hell delivered them out of this prison himselfe also say our adversaries by his ascention brought them into heaven For they suppose that the way into heaven was not open vntil that Christ by his ascentiō entered in But because Jesus Christ said vnto the thiefe This day thou shalt be with me in Paradice wherby it appeared that the thiefe passed into Paradice forty daies before the ascention of Jesus Christ our Monke preventeth him by vsing his priviledge hee will haue vs hereby Paradice to vnderstande the lower parts that is to say Limbo or Purgatorie For page 95. he saith wheresoever the presence of God is there is Paradice as much as if he should say The thiefe being on the Crosse was in Paradice because Jesus Christ was there present and that Jesus Christ did but mocke him in promising him that hee should shortly be in Paradice sith hee was there already Now in as much as it was forty daies betweene Christs resurrection and his ascention It may be said that these souls being come out of Limbo were set sentinels in some corner or other or that peradventure they walked their stations here below for of this matter we find no decision of the Popes Extrav de Constit tit 2. Can. licet to whom only it belongeth to decide all matters of Religion as to thē that cannot erre in faith in their Cānons doe boast that all right resteth in the shrine of their harts Our Franciscan and the auctor of Helies fire do say that during the forty daies those soules were with Jesus Christ that is to say Pag. 38. 44. when Jesus Christ was in the chamber with his Apostles all the soules of the old Testamēt were there also with him That when he went to Emaus they followed him That when he was by the sea side there also they were assembled and arranged vpon the sands Into this Limbo entred two sorts of soules The one sort such as without need of purgation came directly in the other they that after their purgation and satisfaction in Purgatory came neverthelesse thither In those daies was the torment of Purgatory of much lōger continuance then in this age it is For then the soveraigne high Priests gaue no Indulgences neither fetched any soules out of Purgatory whereby it appeareth that God being now more liberall they doe wrong to call the first age The goldē age Of this Limbo would our men make Iacob to speake in the 37 of Genesis where according to the Roman translation he saith I shall go down into hell bewailing my sonne wherevpon say we that it followeth that in the 42 Chapter where these words are repeated Iacob spake of this Limbo yet he there saith that his white haires shall go downe The soules then are hairy for these good fathers went downe into Limbo with gray haire whereof we are also to presuppose that in that country they haue barbers And all this absurdity groweth of this that they wil not vnderstand that Sheol in Hebrew namely in these places signifieth sometimes the state of the dead and somtime the Sepulcher albeit they be driven to it by sundry places of the scripture as in the 14 Psal ver 7. and in the 30. vers 4. in many other places They also produce the 9. of Zachary and the 4. of S. Paule to the Ephes but they do only quote the places and so leaue the reader to guesse at the matter and good reason for of Limbo there is no speech throughout al the scriptures but cōtrarywise we finde that Moses and Elias talked with Jesus Christ vpon the mountaine wherby it appeareth that they were not in a corner vnder the earth Againe if the death of Iesus Christ were of force to deliver the fathers of the old Testament out of hell why not out of Limbo which they say is a more easie prison As concerning the passage in the ninth of Zachary there is no speech of Limbo but of the deliverance from hell vnder the figure of the deliverance from the Captivitie of Babilon The words of the prophet are these In the blood of thy covenāt thou hast delivered thy prisoners out of the lake where is no water They also obiect vnto vs the 4. of S. Paule to the Ephes Where speaking of the Incarnation and habitation of Jesus Christ vpon earth hee saith that he descended into the lowest parts of the earth accommodating to our Savior Christ the words of David in the Psalme 139. v. 15 where he saith that he was formed in the lowest parts of the earth that is in his mothers wōb and according to the Greek 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in the superlatiue but what communitie hath this with Limbo Much lesse is it meant of the fetching of the Fathers out of Limbo which is in the eight verse Hee led captivitie captiue for would he haue led captiue the soules of the fathers considering that they would that hee should haue brought them out of captivitie For in the Greeke it is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which signifieth to lead into captivity those whō they haue taken at the swordes point These captiues thē are the divels death c. The Auctor of the fire of Helie giveth it vs brauely he maketh S. Paul Heb. 11. v. 39. 40. to say that these fathers are not rewarded before vs but neither there nor

Barrabas S. Paul defending himselfe before his Iudge Felix saith that he will satisfie for himselfe in Greeke it is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 I defend my self Yet in al this haue we no speech of paiment or redemption What is now become of our Coniurations and the demonstrations of my grossenesse Learn brother Minor and thanke me Now let vs wrastle with these humane satisfactions taken for redemptions payments to the Iustice of God for the payments due to our sins hereto serveth al that hath beene spoken against the satisfaction of Purgatory for the sufficiency of the only satisfaction of Iesus Christ now let vs thereto adioine the reasons 2 By the holy scripture we learne that Salvation is a gift yea a free gift Rom. 6.23 Luk. 12.32 Ephes 2.8 Pag. 102. we do not then buy it neither doe wee pay any price for it in part or in whole Du Val answereth not The frier saith that the two first passages are false and that there is not such a worde let vs therefore looke vpon the passages at large In the 6. to the Rom. v. 23. S Paule saith the gift of God is eternal life through Iesus Christ In the 12. of S. Luke v. 32. Iesus Christ saith Feare not litle flock for it is your fathers pleasure to giue you the kingdome Am I a falsifier or hee a slanderer You see it is his hope was that the reader woulde never haue searched out the places for their prohibition that none shall read the holy scripture emboldeneth him in this liberty yet doth it not serue his turne for having so falsely accused me of falshood in the next line himselfe committeth a notable falshood corrupting this excellent passage of S. Paul to the Ephes cap. 2. For by grace are yee saved through faith and that not of your selues It is the gift of God Then NOT BY WORKES least any man should boast him selfe But this Frier to breake the force of this passage and to entāgle it maketh the Apostle to speak thus The salvation wrought by our Lord proceeded of the only grace of God of his mercy and loue He perverteth the sense and taketh away the words of most importance that it is not by workes that wee are saved but by the gift of God Where is truth and plaine dealing become Where is conscience O God how lōg shal thy advesaries tread thy holy word vnder foot 3 Against this so wholsome doctrine which appeaseth our cōsciences and giueth to God the glory of our redemption our adversaries doe obiect the Counsell that Daniell gaue to Nabuchadnezar Redeeme thy sinnes by alms 1. But this redemption was not toward God but toward men whome hee had robbed and was therefore to recompence them by liberalitie 2. Againe here the question concerneth satisfactory paines in which ranck Almes hath no place albeit it is a worke commanded to all and an exercise pleasing to the faithfull Never will any man exercise charitie as he ought so long as hee thinke it a punishment or satisfactorie paine Is that helpe where one member helpeth another as the hand doth the foot a paine We all are members of one selfe bodie saith Saint Paul 3. Which is more our adversaries will haue our satisfactions to serue to redeeme from the iustice of God not the sinnes but the punishment for the sinnes Now here it is Redeeme thy sinnes Here therefore haue we need of a glosse after the Romish manner that Sinne here signifieth the punishment of sinne as who should call Theft the whip Murder the gallows For everie absurdity is good with these men provided that yee beleeue a Purgatory 4. The principall point is this that this king Nabuchadnezar beeing a heathen needed no satisfactions which they say serue but to redeem tēporal paines and that after baptisme or after Circūcision but this king was never circumcised being out of the Church needed not these meanes to avoide eternal paine The frier produceth yet other passages as in the Proverbs cap. 5. v. 29. Almes purgeth sinne but this place is false the whol verse left out of the Hebrew yea even the Romane translatiō it hath no speech of Almes 2. To what purpose speake we of purgation where the question is of redemption 3. Finally we confesse that amendment of life purgeth sinne so farre forth as by this meanes the sinner becommeth cleane as cleanlynes purgeth the body succeeding after foulnesse as they say in the schooles non efficienter but formaliter But where the question concerneth such a purging of sinnes as by vertue thereof we shall appeare cleane and innocent in the day of iudgement there the holy Scripture saith that The blood of Iesus Christ purgeth vs from all our sins 1. Ioh. 1.7 Hee also citeth the 16. of the Proverbs Almes redeemeth iniquitie whereto I haue already answered vpon the place of Daniel besides the passage is falsely set downe for according to the Hebrew it is thus There shal bee propitiation for iniquitie by gratuitie and truth Yea even in the Romane translation there is no speech of almes That which hee addeth out of the 12. of Toby That almes maketh vs to finde eternall life is not in the greeke originals neither is it to the purpose for we do confesse that almes and all other good workes are the way to salvation and consequently to make vs finde salvation but here our questiō concerneth the price of our redemption from the paine due to our sinnes which also may bee an answer to that which he hath alleaged out of the 4 of Tobie Almes deliuereth from death and suffereth vs not to come into darkenesse For so it is in the greeke Surely no man doth deny but that good works be the way to salvation and in applying our selues to them we withdraw our selues from perdition Let vs goe on and sith the old serpēt though cut asunder knitteth himselfe againe let vs not cease mangling of him with the word of God and sword of the Gospell 4 God commanding vs to pray that he would forgiue our offences as wee forgiue them that haue offended vs doth thereby shewe that wee must looke for like forgiuenesse from him as we doe giue to our neighbours that is without revenging or exacting satisfactory paines 5 But what if I should proue to these advocats of mans satisfactions that man by satisfactory paines cannot satisfie God for paines due to the least sinne For if slandering of our neighbor or calling of our brother fool be in the Church of Rome veniall sinnes yet S. Paul saith in the first to the Corinthians the 6. that backbiters shall not inherit the kingdome of God Iesus Christ saith that hee that calleth his brother fool is punishable in hel fire when shal we haue satisfied for the paine due to such a sinne which many times evē the best doe incurre Or when shal we haue endured paines satisfactory for hel fire or for a sinne that deserveth deprivation

in the shadow of death herevpon also doth Erasmus in his preface to the fifth booke of Irineus note that Irineus did suppose that the soules dismissed from the bodies did not immediatly enioy the sight of God but are reserued in some secret place vntil the resurrection The same father in the same booke not farr from the beginning saith that God hath placed man in Paradice Quapropter dicunt presbyteri quisūt Apostolorum discipuli eos qui sunt trāstati illuc translatos esse which is the gardē of Eden frō whence for his disobedience he was driven into the world and thē he addeth Therefore the ancient fathers that were the Apostles disciples do say that such as are translated from hence are translated into that place Hee therefore did thinke that the garden of Eden from whence Adam was expelled was the secret corner where the soules are hidden vntil the resurrection A frivolous doctrine yet such as testifieth that in his time there was yet no speech of purgatory which Erasmus also hath noted in the same preface Origen in his seventh homily vpon Leuiticus saith thus Nondum sācti receperūt laetitiam suā c. The Saints no not the Apostles themselues haue not yet receaued their ioy but they expect vntil I bee made participant thereof with them And in his second book of his principles toward the end he saith with Irineus That the saints after their decease are transported into the earthly Paradice Eam Regionem sinū dico Abrahae et si non coel●stem sublimiocem tamen inferis interim refrigerium praebituram animabus iustorum donec comsummatio rerum resurrectionem omnium plenitudine mercedis expungat Quae infra terram iacēt neque ipsa sunt digestis ordinatis potestatibus vacua Locus enim est quo piorum animae impiorum ducūtur c. Tertullian in his fourth book against Marcion cap. 34. I call Abrahams bosome that region albeit not celestiall yet higher then the hels which nevertheles must giue rest to the soules of the righteous vntil the consummation of things accomplish the resurrection through the fulnes of reward The same he repeateth in his fourth poeticall booke against Marcion cap. 6. in his booke of the soule cap. 55. Constituimus omnem animam apud inferos sequestrari in Diem Domini Wee hold assured that every soule is sequestred into the lower partes vnto the day of the Lord. The same hee also saith cap. 56.57.58 Nouatian in his booke of the Trinity and is to bee found among the bookes of Tertullian cap. 1. saith The things that are vnder the earth are not void of powers digested and ordered For it is the place whether the soules both of the faithfull and of the wicked are brought feeling already the foreiudgement of the iudgement to come Now were it to no purpose to say that Novatian was an hereticke for it is well knowne hee was never holden to be an hereticke for this opinion but because hee refused reconciliation to the Church to those that were once fallen Chrysostome on the first to the Corinthians hom 39. If the body riseth not againe the soule shall not be crowned but be kept out of the celestiall beatitude The same he saith hom 28. vpon the Epistle to the Hebrewes In the same father we finde some sentences to the contrarie as indeed it was his fault to be of smale constancy and yet all that he saith doth yet make more against Purgatory And in his homily vpon the Epistle to the Philippians The righteous whether it bee here or whether it be there are ever with the king but there much more yea more neer not as it were by the way not in faith but face to face And wee consequently doe say not in a fire not in a prison vnder earth Theophil●ot a follower of Chrysostom vpon the 11. to the Hebrews The saints haue not yet obtained the celestiall promises Omnes in vna communi que custodia detinentur donec temp adveniat quo maximus iudex meritorum faciat examen Lactantius lib. 7. cap. 11. Let no man thinke that the soules be iudged immediatly after death for they are all detained in a common prison vntil the time come that the great iudge taketh the examination of what they haue deserved Victor in Martyr vpon the sixt of the Revelation saith that Saint Iohn saw vnder the alter the soules of the Martyrs and those that were slaine and these words sub ara hee doth expound sub terra Thus then hee placeth the soules of the Martyrs and Saints vnder earth S. Hillary vpon the 38. Haec humanae lex necessitatis est vt sepultis corporib animae ad inferos descendant c Psalme It is the law of necessity where to man is subiect that the soules should descend into the lower parts after the dead be buried Which law Iesus Christ for the accomplishment of a very perfect man did not refuse Neither may we say that hee speaketh of the fathers of the old Testament for in all that place hee hath not a word of them besides he would haue said This was the law but he saith This is the law Finally saying it is a humane necessitie which Iesus Christ vnderwent to become very man hee sheweth that it is a condition imposed vpon all man kind which if Iesus Christ had not vndergon hee had not participated in all that was proper to mankind Hee also vpon the second Psalme saith The dai● of iudgement is the eternall retribution of beatitude or of punishment but the houre of death in the meane time holdeth every one vnder her lawes whiles the bosome of Abraham or the paine reserveth every one to iudgement Euthimius vpon Luke 16. saith that the history of Lazarus is a parable wherein is described vnto vs what shall bee done in the day of iudgement And vpon the 23. Psalme he saith None of the righteous haue receaued the promises and the kingdome shal be giuen in the day of the vniversall retribution Wherevpon also Io. Hentenius a Monke of the order of S. Hierom hath noted in the margent that Euthimius as a Greek followeth the errors of the Greekes S. Bernard in his 3. sermon of all Saints maketh three habitations for soules Primum in Tabernaculis secundum in Atrijs tertium in C●●lis The first in Tabernacles that in this body the second in Porches the third in heaven these receptacles hee tearmeth hals As for S. Ambrose and S. Augustine we finde them wavering and vnlike to themselues sometimes speaking according to the truth sometime carried away with the common error Ambrose indeed hath before told vs that the habitation of the souls separated is aboue and in the 11 Chapter he saith Incer●● supremi Iudicij non verentur eventum But in his second booke of Abell and Cain cap. 2. he saith thus The Pilot arrived at the shore thinketh not himselfe at the ende of his travaile for