scope being seene let vs take also a short viewe of the handling of his matter Setting downe discipline first in two points as if he woulde begin at the two maine heades thereof he maketh the gathering of a Church one and the guiding of it the other as though you might vnderstande howe the light of the fire can be before there be fire the vse of an instrument before the instrument be fourmed and the action of a liuing thing before the same liuing thing be engendered But in these disputes of discipline the man must bee remembred that wee speake not of discipline at randon but strictly of the discipline of a church Which therfore hauing continuall relation to a Church as haue the actions of a man to a man can no more be presupposed to be the discipline of a church before the same church be then can the actiōs of any man be ascribed vnto him or reported of him before the man himselfe that should do them be begotten But if he will needes haue the gathering of a Church to bee a part of the discipline what part will he referre it vnto For hereby we shall find him as farre at oddes with himselfe as hee is with the trueth His diuision of the kingdome of Christ which hee taketh to differ nothing from the discipline as I haue declared you haue heard before What part thereof is the gathering of a Church to bee referred vnto Perhaps hee will answere the last part namely separation But alas poore man hee forgot that his owne definitions haue quite debarred him all such escape For separation sayth he of the wilfull or grieuous offender is a duetifulnesse of the Church in withholding from them the Christian Communion and felowship by pronouncing and shewing the christian Communion to be broken by their grieuous wickednesse and that with mourning fasting and prayer for them and denouncing Gods iudgements against them And this he calleth not separation from the prophane world but separation from the Church The same hee sayth of the other two partes trying out wickednesse and rebuke they be duties of the church sayth he therefore the Church is presupposed first to be say I and so he in this dissenting both from truth and from himselfe sheweth that nothing but the spirit of lies doeth lead him And why doeth hee say The Church must bee gathered of the worthie and not rather of beleeuers according to the vsuall speach of the Scriptures Forsooth he knewe that if hee granted the Church to bee gathered of beleeuers there needed no more to bee saide to his confutation He was so wise therefore for himselfe as to choose rather a worde more impertinent and lesse perspicuous both to reserue a vauntage of cauilling and to darken the light vnto his reader In the tenth of Matthew whence he fetcheth his phrase Christ giueth no commaundement to the twelue to gather Churches as lthough for that ende they shoulde enquire who was woorthie but onely that they should carie thorow the cities of Iudea the sound of the cōming of Messiah for the wakening of the people preparing their minds to receiue their saluation now comming so neare towardes them and there inquiring out of the worthy is not enioyned them for gathering of congregatious in townes and cities but for their direction touching the places where they should looke for intertainment whilest they taried in any towne or citie And therefore sayeth our Sauiour In whatsoeuer citie or towne ye shal come inquire who is worthie in it and then hee saith not gather all such together to bee a Church but there abide ye till ye go thence as appointing them in euery towne where they come to take vp their lodging in the house of him whom they heard most specially to be spoken of for an honest and religious life The rest of his quotations here are from his purpose they concerne not gathering of Churches but partly the behauiour in Churches and partly euery seuerall Christians discerning of contemners And Malachie among the rest is fowly forced when as because he sayeth The Lorde reiected their offerings because they offered the scrobled and the lame and thesicke and the blinde Browne sayth It figureth the reiecting of our Sacraments when dogs and swine do cōmunicate therein when papists Atheists drunkards Maygamsters blasphemers raylers fighters and such like are presented as sweete bread at the table of the Lord. Where he should compare the blind and lame sacrifices with the defect and defilement that may bee in the Sacraments and seruices of the Church hee to serue his owne turne compareth them with the vnworthie receyuers and disordered members of a Church which was very clenly cogging Besides that it is vntrue that euerie vnworthy receiuer by and by is a dog or a swine for the description Christ giueth of them by their properties is such as rightly agreeth with those only who with open malice and wilfull stubbornesse tread vnderfoot blaspheme godlinesse and ragingly persecute the professors of the same Such found Paule and Barnabas of the Iewes at Antioch But such therefore is not euery vnwoorthie Communicant or that doth deserue excommunication His heaping vp of Papists Atheists with the rest sheweth that his pen was in running and he must needs fill vp the nūber Finally it is false that they were no sacrifices because the Lorde reproueth the bringing of such by the people and the accepting of them by the Priest For they keeping them to the kind of cattel that God had ordeyned for his sacrifices as sheepe oxen c. it ceased not to be a sacrifice although a faultie one when they offered the lame and the blind of those because the fault was in the qualitie and not in the substance Whereas if they should haue killed a dogge or an hogge or an asse then it had beene vtterly no sacrifice His corrupt opinion in vrging the retayning of euery trespasse of our brothers till wee see him repent I haue discouered before Nowe when hee sayeth This libertie and power euery Christian must holde or else hee is the seruant of men and not of Christ And therehence argueth from the more to the lesse If a particular Christian cannot want it how shall the whole Church be without it and yet be named the Church of Christ It is manifest that hee maketh the reproouing of offending brethren to be of the essence of a Christian and so reasoneth from the deniall of the more probable to the deniall of the lesse probable But his reasoning is sophisticall and the consequence popish heresie His reason is sophistical in that he maketh it lesse probable for a church to faile in matters of discipline than for a christian in his own particular of monishing his brother when as contrariwise it is more probable because to the discipline of a Church is required a consent and consent is neuer free from the clogges crossings of cōtradictorie
beseech you by the mercies of God to haue a due consideration A seconde Answere or Reioynder to Brownes replie for the doubts and obiections of his Disciple WHat desire I haue W. F. to withdrawe you from errour and to bring you to the trueth as the Lorde who searcheth the heart knoweth at full so no man that seeeth these my willing labours taken in the behalfe thereof can with any charitie doubt of it And though I haue nowe lesse hope than I had seeing you without all iudgement to discerne the spirit of error and arrogancie which is so nakedly seene in the framer of your replie yet as by the testimonie of two or three witnesses so shal my loue of your saluation be made manifest by this my comming againe vnto you So much therefore at the least through the goodnesse of God I shall gaine if there come more I shall receyue it as aduantage praise his most holy name for all Beare with mee if I followe not your teachers humour in aunswering for if there were nothing else my time is more precious vnto me 1 Vpon my grant that in our Churches we cannot redresse faults so fully as is to be wished he gathereth six heresies for errours soundeth not full inough in his lauish mouth but because they are without all demonstration no man is bound to beleeue him 2 Whereas you saide The lawe compelleth all to communicate that are aboue sixtene yeeres olde I answered The lawe intendeth a worthines yelded this reason because it prouideth censures for the vnworthie Your leader saith I falsifie the question the lawes For the question let that be iudged by others And in that he chargeth the lawes to enforce a confuse mingling with what face can he do it If hee remember the 2.3.4 pages of that brainlesse answere to master Cartwrights letter where amongest others of like nature are these wordes Wee knowe that the lawes doe punish all outward grosse wickednesse or suffer it to be punished as namely idolatrie c. and if there bee any vice vnpunishable by the law yet the lawes doe suffer either the Church or euerie householder or gouernour to correct so it be not against lawe such as are vnder their charge Againe Also for the discipline in gathering the worthie from the vnworthie the lawe appointeth it and giueth leaue to make exception both in publique iudgement and in Churches against vnworthie persons as against drunkennesse fightings murther adulteries stealth slanders c. and yet also doe giue libertie to the Church to vse their owne discipline Let him nowe looke who is his aduersarie in this Whereas I bid you informe vs of inordinate walkers that we may remoue them he sayth We must first haue an order of discipline established If hee meane by an order of discipline some kinde of order of discipline to debarre the vnworthie then it cannot be denied but we haue an order for it as the answerer to maister Cartwright in the wordes afore rehearsed in behalfe of the lawes acknowledgeth if he would not bee so shortly taken but haue his wordes vnderstood of that onely ordering of discipline which the worde of God setteth out then as I reuerence that for the onely and vnchangeable ordinance of the almightie so finde I none a greater aduersarie thereunto than he nay than you all if you all be of that iudgement hee is that wrote your replye For besides other thinges that I will not nowe enter into whereas I acknowledge that in our Church though wee haue some abilitie to withstand open prophanations yet that the gouerning by an Eldership is far to be preferred for the expectation of a happie successe he openeth his mouth as an enemie but with much falshoode and folly First hee sayth I make an Eldershippe a part of your seconde point leauing out discipline I sayde before wee haue vse of the discipline to remooue the inordinate onely this I graunted withall that if you should obiect that wee haue not so good vse of it as if it were ordered by an Eldershippe my selfe woulde ioyne with you in that poynt Nowe if hee had but so good vse of his vnderstanding as wee haue of this discipline he would haue discerned that I added this only to preuent such an obiection from you and not that I thrust it into your second poynt as to make it a part thereof Secondly hee sayth by Elders we meane Aldermen as that we seeke no other but by ciuill power and authoritie to force the vnruly Whereunto if I shoulde answere hee was madde I should fauour him much in mouing pitie for him and if it be not taken so both friends and enemies must needes set a harder sentence vppon him Againe he taketh it not necessary but superstitious to stand vppon the choosing of Elders as the state of our Church nowe standeth and in stead thereof hee supplyeth that the forward of euery Parish put forth themselues by visiting counsailing withdrawing comforting c. to performe the busines Wherin he gratifieth the enemies of discipline with this that the fourme of Church gouernement is changeable Besides let the wise consider whither that bee not apparantly a confused course wherein euery one that lusteth may gouerne Hee supposeth considering the times that an agreement were better than a choise As though there can bee obedience and so agreement where those that gouerne are not chosen His consideration of the times warranteth no man to runne before hee bee called Hee giueth another reason that rather God may haue the praise in prouoking and calling them then man in choosing them This I perceiue is Brownes Anarchie and thus I ouerthrowe it Whatsoeuer course of obedience tendeth more or rather to the praise of God then another that same is alwayes to bee preferred before the other But hee saith that for men to put forth themselues to execute discipline tendeth rather to the praise of God then if they be chosen Therefore we must conclude if hee say true that to offer our selues is alwaies to bee preferred in this case before choosing and so it shall follow by consequence that the order of ordayning set downe by the spirit of God is not the best course of all others Also when as it is hereby intended that the forwarde professors vppon their owne inward motions and feelings shall thus take vpon them to bee Elders and the others must so acknowledge them it followeth thereuppon connexiuely that these inward motions and feelings must be holden warrant inough both for them-selues to take vppon them Church-callings as also to bind other mens consciences to obey them For if this testimonie of their feeling bee not an authenticall warrant to the conscience how shall either parties walke in faith So then if this bee not to leade vs into the lake of Anabaptisticall reuelations I knowe not what can bee But hee proceedeth saying As for the names of Elders and other ceremonies in ordeyning seeing they
to resort keepe vnto But the first is false saith the same Apostle in the place last quoted therefore the latter standeth firme cannot be denied of any that with the least indifferency cōpareth our cōmunicating with theirs For if you wil obiect they had the right order of discipline so haue not we that maketh them the greatlier in fault aboue vs as hauing more meanes in their hands yet came shorter of a holy profession in outward behauior then we and so sealeth vp my conclusion more surely to conuince you But I returne againe to my former purpose I hope I haue made it manifest that neither the forme of the institution was violated by the Corinthians nor yet the abuses committed were done by them all And now I suppose it will not be hard to prooue that the most vnworthie among them did also eate the outward sacrament First if those had not eaten the sacrament at all they could not haue beene charged with eating the bread and drinking the cup of the Lord vnwoorthelie without discerning his bodie and so to their condemnation But they are charged so therefore we must needes graunt they did eate it The assumption is prooued in the 30. verse saying For this cause many among you are weake and sick and many sleepe Wherein the Apostle by these effectes leadeth them to acknowledge the cause namely their sinne such and so as he had propounded it in the 27. 29. verses Whereby behold and if you will suffer the point of truth to pearce into your heart cast out that furious spirit that saith The Communion can not be good to one partie and bad to another and acknowledge by this case of the Corinthians that manifest indignities may be committed by some and apparant vnworthie ones may communicate with others when they cannot be remoued and neither disanull the sacrament nor yet infect or make guilty all the Communicants with their sinne Neither doth this place alone affoord this instruction for you but euen that place of Iude also where inueying against such filthy professors as whose grosse sinnes could not be altogether secrete in any Church wheresoeuer they liued yet doth he graunt it might come to passe that they should impudently thrust themselues into the Church feastes of charitie wherein also the Lords Supper then vsed to be celebrated though so also they should be but as spots and staines therein In the which place neither doth the Apostle once insinuate that the action should thereby be disanulled vnto them nor all to be made wicked by their meanes in communicating yea contrarywise implyeth to the comfort of the godly that they might by prayer through the holie Ghost in the circumspect obseruing one another keepe both themselues and others from the contagion of all such Now I woulde wishe you W. F. and all of your learning to fixe your eyes heere a little in the meditating of these two places and amongst other things bethinke you what was the cause that neither Paule in consideration of that great disorder in the Church at Corinth nor yet Iude in respect of those wicked ones which he calleth spots in the Church feastes no nor Iohn that I may touch you vtterly to the quick in testifying that Church to be ambitiously vsurped vpon ouerweyed and therefore corrupted in the discipline do yet in the least syllable directly or indirectly account those assemblies thoroughly leauened or the couenant broken or yet perswade any of them to withdrawe from the rest and to gather a part And after you haue diligently sought and considered it may be you shall finde no cause but this namely that the Apostles were as farre from your leaders minde and iudgement in this matter as Heauen and Hell are distant and deuided asunder Now against his odious repetitions and senselesse collections I oppose the plainenes and simplicitie of mine answeres but where I call our dealings by admonition and labouring for the Church censures a kind of protesting against the sinne of the vnworthy he mistaketh me as though I meant an open excepting against thē at the Lords table 12 I say there is no further power giuen to a particular member in proceeding against the vnworthy than by processe of admonition Your replier vrgeth me with diuers Scriptures which he supposeth warrant me some further proceeding The first is Giue not that which is holy vnto dogs Inasmuch as this may be brought to Church assemblies it belongeth to the practise of the whole ioyntly not to a particular member seuerally and alone like as other precepts also of Church gouernement The second is Let him be vnto thee as an heathen and publican that is to say when the Church hath for his sinne separated him for so his binding by the Church is set down in the next verse with the efficacy therof to bridle the obstinate and stiff-necked The third is If an Angell from heauen or Paule preach otherwise hold him accursed I hold him for a cursed instrument of Sathan and not a blessed seruant of God whosoeuer bringeth vs another doctrine then the Lord hath left vs in his word but what is this to the purpose in hand His fourth and fifth places Be not thou partaker of other mens sinne and follow not a multitude to do euill I haue answered before where I haue shewed how far and in what sort we may partake with the vnworthy in the Sacrament and haue proued it to be without guilt of their sin The like I answere to his other two places out of Timothy He quoteth Ierem. 1.17.18 If he meant that euery priuate man should take vpō him as with Ieremies cōmission either for the parts of his duty towards the Church or the manner of carying himselfe in his place he seduceth you dangerously for so euery priuate man may publikely denounce the iudgemēts of God against Princes Ministers people contend with them all if they faile in their duty yea if they but iudge them to faile in their duty for I trow he wil not ascribe to them such sure reuelations as had the Prophet and so what should an Eldership do in the Church yea or any other gouernors whē as if they proceed not according to my expectation in any thing I so any priuate man may disanull their doings If otherwise he cite the place but for the generall doctrine that may therehence be deriued vnto all namely whatsoeuer the Lord cōmandeth any of vs to do be it a matter that seeme neuer so dangerous fearefull to vs that we obserue to do it to the vttermost without fearing the faces of any if I say he quote the place for this let him know that whē he shall proue particular members of a Church to haue receiued such a commandement frō the Lord as is heere in question then this place of the Prophet Iere. shal make for his cause in the meane time I cannot but iudge
him and beeing builded vppon him by faith It is certaine there may be other wants and deformities where these essentiall partes are Now those deformities and wantes may bee both in pointes of doctrine and practise as may plainely bee prooued by examples of the Churches of God established in all ages For the leauen of euill and daungerous pointes of doctrine let the Churches of the Corinthes about the resurrection also counting fornication among indifferent thinges and the Colossians aboute ceremoniall obseruation of dayes and abstinence of meates and worshipping of Angels testifie Yea let the Churches of Galatia generallye infected with daungerous doctrine bee witnesse Wantes in pointes of knowledge and doctrine appeared manifestly to be in the Apostles the Church at Ierusalem touching the vocation of the Gentiles As for practise in gouerning and ordering the Churches if we search the times we shall easily find both deformities disabilities or wantes yea euen in the holsome censures of the Church which are here in question The Corinthians vnreuerent and scandalous yea almost prophane comming to the Lordes table is an example of a foule and corrupt behauiour of a Church Of wants and disabilities in the practise of Church gouernment let vs marke whether they may not be found euen in some Church which that most painefull Apostle Saint Paule laboured so plentifully to make perfect consider I say diligently and you shall finde that same famous Church of Rome where not long after Paule died for the testimonie of Christ so weake and defectiue in duties of gouernment as that they could not separate from them such as preached Christ contentiously and with so spitefull minds against Paule as tended to the cutting off of so good and faithfull a guide from amongest them You will not say they deserued it not nor yet that the better sort woulde not doe it for then also their faulte was worse You cannot say they knewe it not or it was secrete for Paule was in prison so as the knowledge therof coulde not come to him but by the information of brethren yea it is manifest by the same Epistle that the greater number of that Church did corruptly demeane and carrie themselues in the same Againe that pestilent chaire of ambitious vsurpation ouer the assemblies was crept into the Church whereof Saint Iohn maketh mention in these wordes I wrote vnto the Church but Diotrephes who seeketh the preheminēce among them receyueth vs not wherefore if I come I wil declare his deedes which he doeth pratling against vs with ambitious wordes and not therewith content neither himselfe receyueth the brethren but forbiddeth them that would and casteth them out of the Church First here is as much deprauation of discipline as Browne can tell vs of Secondly it is plaine that the same Church remained then vnable to remedie it which the Apostle signifieth by purposing a time to come rebuke him which needed not if the Church according to his demerite could haue chastened him Thirdly hee yet intituleth them the Church whereby all men may see the Apostle was farre frō Brownes mind For he neither insinuateth that the Church was now disanulled by such corruption nor giueth any caueat for men to withdraw or withhold themselues from ioyning with the same which certainly had bene necessarie both for that time present and all posterities ensuing Consider likewise what I haue before obserued vpon the 11. to the Cor. in the 11. sect So that turne you which way you will this shall bee sufficiently proued alwayes that a Church that is to say an assembly consisting of the essentiall partes of a Church of God may bee chargeable of diuerse other wantes and deformities both in doctrine gouernment which being so the other bulwarke also which your leader had builded for you to perswade you boldly to go from vs is beaten downe to the ground namely that the failing of any necessarie point in the publique practise of gouernement breaketh the couenant of a Church Yeld your selfe therfore for here must you needes be taken 22 But nowe let vs come to applie this same generall question to our particular congregation which if it bee tried in the essentiall parts aforsaid shall vndoubtedly be found a Church of God howsoeuer in some other things impure and defectiue He excepteth but against his owne knowledge cōscience that we haue no power nor order in vse to separate the vnworthy First this is no way of the essence of a Church as I shall proue Also I haue saide before that we both may and doe discerne of the Communicants and debarre the vnworthie And I brought places of his owne writings that testifie the same If hee doubt whether wee doe it let him inquire If the reader woulde see where the lawe doeth warrant it let him reade at the beginning of the ministration of the Communion in the Church bookes there shall he see it His sophisticall fetch in making this discipline all one with Christs power gouernment is bowlted out in another place To holde the church of Englande to bee without Christs discipline is they vnaduisednes of him that putteth all vpon the spurre and neuer looketh at his way To discerne the worthy and vnworthy in the assemblies to admonish the inordinate to suspend finally excommunicate the vnruly ones which is the discipline wherof our question is all men know the church of England by law professeth and dayly practiseth therefore it cannot bee said to be without the very discipline of Christ this very discipline I say as touching all the parts and duties of censuring although not ordered administred by such a course as the worde appointeth Which if he consider better hee may more truely hereafter affirme that the church of England administreth the discipline corruptly then that it wanteth the same that the outward forme and ordering of the discipline is popish but not the substāce so How much we labor according to our places to recouer that libertie the word giueth to euery cōgregation for executing the discipline as it is vnpossible for you to report of it that come not among vs so it is a shame for him to define of it that otherwise knoweth vs not 30 But then he woulde haue vs crie out by name against those that restraine vs yea though it cost vs our liues I answer All men in this cannot be tied to one rule for the maner of proceeding neither in any other case of suffering for the truth but euery one is to be left brotherly stirrings vp excepted to the particular preparations and thrusting forth of the spirit Your leader therefore hauing such a particular feeling of so great a charge and bond of duty to venture his liuing life in this case and specially holding the discipline so deare aboue vs as he pretendeth cannot keepe backe himselfe in this case but with ranke cowardlinesse and being guiltie of