not that his soule should be subiect to any infernall power but that subduing the gates of hell he might deliuer our souls from that tyrannie Of the article of Christs descent to hel I am not ignorant how diuersly learned men doe thinke It is somewhat obscure indeed and subiect to many disputations but yet no godly man vpon that occasion will resist or offer force to the Apostles words thou wilt not leaue my soule in hell but will desire of God the vnderstanding therof and in the meane time with a single faith cleaue to the word of trueth although he can not cleerely perceaue the maner how that was performed Of this Article see Austâ—…n Epistle 99. Vrbanus Regius The Church deliuereth vs out of the Scriptures that Christ after he was dead on the crosse descended also to hell to suppresse Satan and hell to the which we were condemned by the iust iudgement of God and to spoile and destroy the kingdome of death Zacharias Scilterus The descent of Christ to hell whereof mention is made in the Apostles Creede after the death and buriall of Christ is to be vnderstood simply according to the letter and without allegorie of the ostension and declaration of Christes victorie no lesse glorious then terrible as Luther writeth to Philip Melancthon indeed made to the diuels in hell or in the place of the damned and of Christes expugning disarming spoyling and captiuating the power of Satan and of his destroying hell and euerting the whole kingdome of Satan and of his deliuering vs from the power of death and eternall damnation and out of the iawes of hell Dauid Chytreus The Article of the Creede let vs retaine simply as the words sound and let vs resolue that the Sonne of God truely descended to hell to deliuer vs from hell to which we were condemned for sinne in Adam and from the power and tyrannie of the diuell by which we were held captiue Of which effect and fruit of Christs descent the Fathers speake as Ierom Christ descended to hell that we might ascend to heauen And Fulgentius The man which God assumed descended thither whither man separated from God by defert of sinne fell that is to hell where the soule of a sinner vsed to be tormented And Augustine Dying for thee I descended to hell to bring thee to Paradise Tartara adij vt tu in caelo regnares I went to the place of the damned that thou mightest raigne in heauen Georgius Mylius in his explication of the Augustane confession The true and proper sense of this Article is that no metaphoricall but a reall descent of Christ to hell must be vnderstood whereby he descended to the lower parts of the earth Eph. 4. vers 9. Et ipsas Damnatorum sedes adijt and went to the very place of the damned The second point is that this Article is no part of his passion and humiliation but of his victorie and triumph I omit infinite others not onely priuate writers but Vniuersities Cities and Countries that haue publikely approoued the same doctrine admitting and allowing the Augustane confession exhibited by the States of Germanie to Charles the Emperour which thus they declare in their booke of Concord With one consent we aduise this matter not to be disputed but this Article of Christs descent to hell to be most simply beleeued and taught It ought to suffice vs if we know that Christ descended into hell destroied hell to all beleeuers and by him or his descent thither we were taken out of the power of death and Satan from euerlasting damnation and euen out of the iawes of hell The maner how this was done let vs not curiously search but referre the exact knowledge heereof to an other worlde where not onely this mysterie but many others simply beleeued of vs in this life shall be reuealed which passe the reach of our blinde reason And where some would so moderate this Article as if it ment no more but that the force and effect of Christes death was manifested as well to the damned to exclude them from all hope as to the faithfull to encrease their comfort Luther sharpely but truely thus refuteth that fansie Thou wilt not leaue my soule in hell The sense heereof is most plaine so plentifully and diligently deliuered by the Apostles But euen here haue men presuming all things of their wittes begun to dispute whether Christ were in hell as touching his soule and the substance thereof and what this meaneth that he was in hell And a great number haue dared to contradict the spirit of God that Christs soule was not in hell but by effect being for sooth handsome glozers of the word of God Thou wilt not leaue my soule that is the effect of my soule in hell Christ descended to hell that is he effected somewhat in hell but despising these friuolous and impious trifles let vs simply vnderstand the wordes of the Prophet as they are simply spoken and if we can not vnderstand them let vs faithfully beleeue them Greater is the authoritie of this Scripture then the capacitie of all mens wittes as Augustine saith For the soule of Christ according to her substance truely descended to hell To like purpose might exceeding many new writers be brought all confessing the descent of Christes soule to the very place of the damned and of the diuels that the trueth force and glory of his humane soule might appeere as well to the reprobate angels and spirits vnder earth as to the elect aboue the earth God making the humane nature of his Sonne this recompence that as he was despised and reproched by Satan in his instruments so he should be adored and feared euen of all the powers of darckenesse and wholy despose of them and their kingdome but these may suffice the sober Reader to let him see that I deliuer none other sense of that Article then hath beene formerly receaued in the church of Christ with full consent and to this day is continued in the same by many great and graue Diuines whose iudgements I need not be ashamed to follow though I confesse I depend not on their wordes farder then they conforme their writings to the word of God which in this case I take to be plaine enough howsoeuer some quarrell be made to the diuers significations of Sheol and Hades which is as easily done in other Articles of the Creed as in this if it were the part of a Christian to wrangle with euerie worde that hath sundry senses or vses in the holy Scriptures To my purpose other Scriptures doe make very much as where Christ saith Father into thine hands I commend my soule and to the thiefe that hung by him This day shalt thou be with me in Paradise You bring Scriptures rather for shew then substance since they inferre no such thing as you would enforce on them The soules of the Saints liuing and dead are in the hands of
of Christ the perfection of whose confidence and patience hee would demonstrate to Angels and men and propose him a paterne to all the Sonnes of God how to humble themsâ—…lues vnder the mightie hand of God and accept his obedience vnto death as a most precâ—…ous and pleasing satisfaction and sacrifice for the sinnes of his elect and reward his humilitie with vnspeakeable honour in making him Lord and Iudge of all both men and Angels not onely to confound the pride and suppâ—…esse the power of Satan but to adiudge him to euerlasting torments with all the wicked and accursed Against the tenor and effect of this Christian confession which I referre to the iudgements of all that be learned rightly instructed in the sacred Scriptures I neuer speake any one word to my knowledge I cannot in euery sentence repeate euery circumstance nor of euery page make a paire of Indentures much lesse may I forsake the forme of holsome words deliuered in the Scriptures But the maine summe and scope of this doctrine being so fully declared and so often repeated by me I had no reason to feare the capacity or doubt the memorie of any heedfull Reader And howsoeuer some shallow trifler may picke out a word heere and there to carpe at yet are there so many cleere places to direct all doubts that no man needeth to stumble but he that will not or can not stand vpright For let the Christian Reader looke but to the marke at which I aime in euery place and remember these two rules that of three sorts of death which onely are mentioned in the Scriptures as the wages of sinne to wit corporall spirituall and eternall death I alwayes remoue the two last from the person of Christ by describing or naming the first which was his corporall death and in that I conteine the whole course and maner of his death that is the feares forrowâ—…s shames temptations derisions smarts and paines which the Scriptures record in the history of his death and all my words will prooue plaine and easie which this maâ—… thinketh so false in themselues so contrary to themselues Examine my words which he hath brought for examples of contradiction and falsity and see whether his labour be any more than meere nugation and vanitie Aâ—…ouching and prouing that Christ could not suffer eternall damnation which is the full wages of sinne nor the death of the soule which by the Scriptures must exclude Christ from the fauour and grace trueth and spirit of God and giuing the reasons why sinne could not preuaile vpon his person as it did vpon others I conclude What maruell then if sinne which should haue wrought in vs an eternal destruction both of bodie and soule could not farther preuaile in him that is to none other kinde of death but to the wounding of his flesh and shedding of his blood for the iust and full satisfaction of all our sinnes euen in the righteous and sincere iudgement of God In this I free Christ from eternall destruction or death of bodie and soule which was the wages of sinne in our persons but could not take holde on his as the difference there betwixt him and vs declareth I exempted him by proofs in the page precedent from the death of the soule which was the maine scope of that section and so leâ—…t him subiect onely to the third kinde of death which was corporall and might be suffered not onely without all taint of sinne losse of grace and change of Gods fauour but euen with great manifestation of Gods power and wisdome in his death and commendation of Christs obedience and patience vnto death That third kinde of death I doe not name but describe by the wounding of Christes flesh and shedding of his blood the rest of his paines and griefes that went bâ—…fore not being excluded as superfluous but continued and increased by that sharpe and â—…xtreame martyrdome which he endured on the crossâ—… as my caueat touching Christs Crosse did plainly admonish And since the whole maner of Christes dâ—…ath and shedding his blood expressed in the Scriptures is the thing that I alwayes intend and the word doth import when I name or touch the death of Christ all that he voluntarily or violently suffered when he yeelded himselfe to be put to death â—…s comprised in the mention of his death Besides that Christ by his bloody sweat in the garden beganne of his owne accord in some sort to effuse his blood for our sakes and safeties and the efore it could haue no iust reason to imagine that my words exclude his agonie and other passions of the soule mentioned in the Scriptures specially my very next words affirming that the same part might and did suffer in Christ which sinned in man to wit the soule though by no meanes it could receiue the same wages which we should haue receiued But I professe by the generall title of my Sermons the full redemption of mankinde by the death and blood of Christ and commend the jâ—…ce and fruit of his bodily death as most sufficient That indeed is very dangerous to your fansie who hold the ioynt sufferings of Christes soule from and by his body not properly to pertaine to mans redemption for that they are common to men with beasts and therefore labour to frustrate all the words of the Holy Ghost deliuered in the Scriptures as improper and impertinent to our saluation but to me there can be no danger in the trueth nor doubt of the fruit or force of those things which the spirit of God so often and euidently commendeth vnto vs in the â—…acred Scriptures as the price of our redemption and meanes of our reconciliation to God In Christ sayth Paul we haue redemption by his blood euen the remission of our sinnes Redemption by Christs blood you will and must gâ—…ant the Holy ghost doth directly auouch it but whether that redemption be full and most sufficient which is purchased by the blood of Christ you doe make some doubt or els you need not sticke at my words which import so much Of that if you doubt you must beare the name of some other sect and not of a Christian for no Christian may doubt whether the redemption which we haue by the blood of Christ be fâ—…ll and suffâ—…cient or no. To make Christ in part a Sauiour is to make him in part no Sauiour contrary to S Peter who sayth There is no saluation in any other If you will deâ—…iue our whole redemption from him but not from his blood shed for vs then giue you S. Iohn the lie who sayth The blood of Iesus Christ clenseth vs from all sinne Clensing from all sinne is full and perfect redemption from sinne and sinne being fully remitted and purged there is no cause of breach betweene God and vs that should hinder our saluation Christ by his owne blood sayth Paul entred once into the holy place hauing purchased eternall
owne words and hereafter by your leaue tell you it is a plaine lye and a meere shift if you father your termes of Christs meere blood and single bodie vpon me as any part of the Question which I mooued or Doctrine which I defend Wherefore I pray thee Christian Reader once more to take notice that I be not driuen in euery page to proue one and the same thing against the Discoursers vnsauery childish and Idle phrases with which he would faine elude the Scriptures and delude the world Your confession both of my Sermons and conclusion Sir Descourser is this Sundry times you teach that Christ did suffer peculiarly and seuerally some proper punishments in his soule besides his bodily sufferings yea that this was a part of his crosse and the effect of Gods wrath on his soule as well as the suffering in his body Against my words so often witnessed in my writings and so openly confessed by your selfe you take vpon you by some secret reuelation belike to know my meaning that no more but the shedding of Christs blood MEERELY is the full satisfaction of all our sinnes which MEERE BLOOD of Christ the Scriptures meane not nor onely his body SINGLY and SIMPLY considered The MEERE blood and SINGLE and SIMPLE body of Christ with such like couerts of your cause are termes fit for such a teacher as you are to which if you could once conuert the Question we must haue as many Lexicons to bring vs out of these Laberinthes as there be leaues in your booke Keepe them therefore as whelps of your owne litture the faith of Christ and the word of God hath stood without them these sixteene hundered yeeres What I meane by the body and blood of Christ giuen and shed for our Redemption and the remission of our sinne I haue meetly well expressed I must not in euery section fall to fresh repetitions When I speake as the Scripture speaketh I meane as the Scripture meaneth They know not your new termes of the MEERE blood nor of the single and simple body of Christ but by his blood and death they meane that manner of shedding his blood and that kind and course of death suffered in the body of his flesh which the Gospell describeth no way excluding from Christ when he presented himselfe before God to vndertake mans cause the due consideration of mans infirmitie and iniquitie abounding or of Gods iustice therewith displeased nor his humble and voluntary submission to the mightie hand and righteous will of his heauenly Father to excuse vs from the heauie iudgement that otherwise did hang ouer our heads So much as the Scriptures mention in declaring the manner of his death and bloodshedding so much they containe in the name of his Crosse blood and death For as the description which the holy Ghost maketh is in no point idle so the comprehension of all vnder one word excludeth nothing formerly described This I take to be a sound and sure way to expound the Scriptures by their owne direction and intention For since the manner and order of Christs death was so carefully regestred by the spirite of God that we should not be ignorant of it whensoeuer the Scriptures speake of Christs Crosse blood and death they referre vs to all that which either by the Prophets was foretold or in the Gospell is expressed touching the order and manner of his death And so Christ died for our sinnes according to the Scriptures as Paul addeth Then to take any thing from it which is mentioned in the Scriptures or to adde any thing to it which is not there expresly recorded is to depart from the word of trueth and to dishonor and deface the death and bloud of Christ with our inuentions This being my meaning euen from the beginning as my words declare I moued these two generall questions The first Whether in the crosse and death of Christ described in the Scriptures the death of the soule or the death of the damned were by any good warrant of the sayd Scriptures comprised Secondly Whether the crosse and death of Christ as the Scriptures describe them be not the full and perfect price of our redemption from sinne and reconciliation to God by the testimonie of the same Scriptures without the death of the soule or paines of the damned The Discourser finding himselfe inclosed with these questions speaketh directlie to neither and prooueth nothing in either but declining the enuie of these speeches the death of the soule and the paines of the damned which indeed are the points misliked and reiected he changeth the first question into the generall termes of suffering Gods wrath and the soules proper suffering which may import manie things besides those two and in the second he euery where beareth the Reader in hand that by the death and bloud of Christ I meane the MEERE bodily sufferings of Christ without anie sense or sorrow of the soule in her spirituall powers And lest the Scripture should stand in his way he casteth them all behinde him that any way witnesse the force and merit of Christes death and bloudshedding as figuratiue speeches because they name not the MEERE bloud of Christ nor only his body SINGLY considered But Sir all this while you forget that you haue proued nothing but onely supposed and auouched what pleased you and that in matters of faith you may not adde to the word of God without manifest apostasie The things questioned by me were the death of the soule and the verie paines of the damned as appeareth euidently by my words when I first mooued the question Of these you say nothing all this while which yet you must soundly fully proue before you may adde them to the words of the Holy ghost testifying the power vertue of Christes bloud and death Therefore howsoeuer you seeme to shift off the Scriptures as figuratiue speeches with your MEERE and SINGLE termes they will sticke faster by you than so For as there can be no doubt of my meaning comprising all in the death and bloud of Christ which the Scriptures report of the order and maner of his sufferings when he yeelded himselfe to die for the sinnes of the world according to the counsell of his Fathers wil so you may not presume any thing to be conteined in the death or crosse of Christ as requisite for our redemption which is not cleerely witnessed by the Scriptures Proue therefore by the Scriptures that Christ died the death of the soule or the death of the damned which are the true paines of hell and then adde it to the crosse of Christ when you will Till so you do the Scriptures which I haue produced stand in their full strength against you For as they bind all Christian men stedfastly to beleeue that which is written touching their redemption by the death and bloud of Christ so do they straitly prohibit all and euery be they men or Angels to adde any other
might and did punish properly Christes soule also and yet neuer deuide his Godhead nor his loue from it The one standeth with Gods iustice and with the nature of man in Christ as well as the other A wanton colt when he winceth with his heeles thinketh he can batter walles and beate downe trees with a blow when yet the skittish thing doth but hurt it selfe Is this the reason which weakened all that I said in so manie sides against the death of the soule for of that I speake in all those pages which you quote Neede you a paire of spectacles so see the difference betweene the death of the soule and the death of the bodie that you so falsely idlely and foolishly match them together A verie drone would soone discerne that the death of the bodie innocently obediently and patiently suffered could no way separate Christ from the fauour and loue of God nor hinder the worke of our redemption though it depriued hiâ—… of life sense and motion in the bodie for the time which are the good blessings of God when they are vsed to his glorie and yet the death of the soule which leaueth neither action affection nor communion of grace trueth or faith in the soule seuereth both Soule and body quite from God and maketh them hatefull vnto God and altogether vnapt to reconcile others vnto God when they themselues are disioyned and parted from God And therefore notwithstanding your Crakes that you can blow mountaines afore you with your breath and your craft that shift the death of the Soule whereof I speake in all those places into a proper spirituall punishment of your owne framing you haue not auoyded any one Reason there nor offer so much as to come toward the matter in question but roue after your wonted manner with generall phrases proper to your selfe and then thinke that no man seeth you there are other punishments in the Soule besides death but none that can reconcile vs vnto God For b Rom 5. We were reconciled to God by the death of his Sonne c 1. Cor. 15. I declare vnto you saith Paul the Gospell which I preached vnto you and whereby you are saued For first of all I deliuered vnto you that Christ died for our sinnes according to the Scriptures Then you and whosoeuer else that preach or beleeue Remission of sinnes by any thing else but by the death of Christ you preach not the Gospell which the Apostle deliuered neither can you looke for saluation in Christ that leaue the maine ground thereof which is the death that he tasted for all and through which he destroyed him that had the power of death euen the diuell So that to step to any other spirituall punishments for the satisfaction of our sinnes and reconciliation to God then to that which the Scriptures call the death of Christ and the death of the Crosse is to renounce all that God hath ordained or reuealed for our Saluation and to create you new Sauiours after your owne conceits You must therefore be directly and plainly brought to this point whether Christ suffered for vs the death of the Soule by the Scriptures and not such giggers of proper punishments nor straines of improper speeches as you and your friends hunt after but fairely and fully according to the direction of the sacred Scriptures which must be heard and preferred before all your fansies as well touching the death of the soule as the trueth of our redemption by the bloud of Christ Iesus Wherein though I exclude not the sense and affections of his soule which felt the paine knew the cause and beheld the counsell of God in all those sufferings vndertaken for man through the tender loue that he bare to man yet none of those feares sorrowes nor paines which the soule discerned and receiued did any whit diminish the power of Gods spirit and grace in him nor the perfection of his faith hope and loue whereby the soule cleaued fast to God without any separation and consequently the innocence obedience and patience of Christes soule in his sufferings both outward and inward did confirme and manifest the life of his soule But of this more in due place d Defenc. paâ—… 90. li. 27. Then you addresse your selfe against another euen one of the chiefest reasons of mine which I make from the strange and incomparable agonies of Christ in the time of his passion You make no reasons from Christes agonie but assuming that for a shew which you do not vnderstand you inferre what you list by your rash presumptuous and manifest contradictions both to your selfe and to the Scriptures e Ibid. li. 30. These inuaded him as we reade principally at three times First in the foretaste of his passion Ioh. 12. secondly in the Garden a little before his apprehension thirdly in his very extreame passion it selfe on the crosse The Scripture mentioneth one agonie and you multiplie that to three In the twelfth of Iohn when some of the Grecians that came to worship on the feast of Easter were desirous to see Christ of whom they had heard much and made their desire knowen to Philip and he to Andrew and they both to Iesus Iesus answered them f Iohn 12. The houre was come euen at hand that the Sonne of man should be glorified by his death This therefore was not a time to shew himselfe when his heart or soule was troubled with other matters euen with the meditation and preparation of his death Now except you be so wise that you will make euery affection in Christ an agonie there is no cause to conceiue this to be an agonie He often times thought and spake of his death before where no man besides you doth dreame of agonies and this verie word is in other cases ascribed aswell to Christ as to others where no colour of an agonie doth appeare When he tolde his Disciples that one of them should betray him g Iohn 13. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 he was troubled in spirit and meaning to raise Lazarus from death when he saw Mary the sister of Lazarus and the Iewes that were with her to weepe h Iohn 11. he groned in spirit and troubled himselfe insomuch that he wept which yet was no agonie but a touch of humane compassion shewing the loue he bare vnto them The complaint on the crosse besides the words had no shew of an agonie and what sense they beare we shall after examine Verily he that would not suffer his owne Disciples to beholde his agonie in the Garden would neuer in the eyes or eares of his enemies with his owne deeds or words verifie their reproches and taunts against himselfe as if he were forsaken of God which was the thing they vpbraided him with And therfore you may deuise not three but threescore agonies if you will The Scripture expresseth one and that you neither rightly conceiue nor rightly vse i Defenc. pag. 90. li. 35. To all that
the time though it were after restored with greater glory This I did not put for the cause of his agonie as you idlely amplifie but noted it as a respect that might worthily lead Christ to dislike or abhorre death in respect of his perfection and communion with God aboue all men and Angels saue for the will of his father and the good of man which ouerruled this dislike in him g Defenc pag. 105 li 22. You say excellent well but by your practise in all matters so farre as I see you neuer meane to obserue it in Gods cause let Gods booke teach vs what to beleeue and what to professe shew me then where you read in Gods word any or all these to be effectuall causes of this strange 〈◊〉 or 〈◊〉 my part I shall neuer beleeue you If I did professe to bind mens faiths to these causes of Christes agonie as you doe to your new redemption by the paines of the damned I would shew you where I redde them in the word of God or els I would leaue â—…ch beleeuer to his libertie but I forwarned all men that the Scriptures directly and particularly speaking nothing of the causes of Christes agonie the safest rule that I could find or they could follow was not to depart from any knowen and receaued grounds of Religion and principles of pietie for the causes thereof For since the Scriptures keep silence and our Sauiour himselfe would not shew it to all his Disciples but chose three from the rest to goe with him and tooke the darke time of the night and left those three whose eies were so heauie that they could not forâ—…eare sleepe about a stones cast before he would pray because he would not haue thâ—…m 〈◊〉 to all that he said or did in that place I see no reason why any man should be ouer curious in searching that which the word of God hath not precisely reuealed specially seeing no demonstratiue cause can be giuen of secret affections and voluntarie actions such as these were in Christ. And your audacious and presumptuous boldnesse is the more chalengeable for that you not onely take vpon you to giue the right and exact cause therof out of your owne braine but you light on such a cause as hath no foundation in any part of the Scripture nor any coherence with the maine positions of the Christian faith vnfalliblely deliuered in the word of God Wherfore I haue not transgressed my directions when I teach what iust and waighty respects of feare sorow zeale our Lord Sauior had in the worke of our redemption which might be the causes of that earnest prayer agonie and withall shewed the iudgements and opinions of diuers ancient and learned Fathers concerning the same but you as insolent in your conclusions as in your conceits take vpon you to specifie the full and true cause thereof for which you haue no shew of Scriptures nor touch of reason And such is the cause which you yeeld that thereby you crosse the chiefe streames of faith and trueth most currant in the sacred Scriptures and with all learned and religious antiquitie The same rule then binding you which bindeth me shew you what Prophet Euangelist or Apostle euer taught or thought the paines of the damned to be inflicted on Christes soule in the Garden by Gods immediate hand and that without the paines of hell we could not be 〈◊〉 or els my not beleeuing you will not excuse your enterprise you must answere to God and to all the faithfull for innouating the very roots and branches of their redemption by the bloud and death of Christ Iesus which you auouch to be vnsufficient for the ransome of our sinnes except your hell be thereto added when the Holy Ghost who should best know the trueth being the spirit of trueth hath expressed no such thing in all the Scriptures h Defenc pag. 105. li. 32. Your sixt and last maine cause is that Christ by this his bloudie sweate and 〈◊〉 praiers did nothing but voluntarily performe that bloudie offering and Priesthood 〈◊〉 in the Law This we simply grant If you should truely repeat and conceiue any part The 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 agonie of my writings you should put your selfe to more paines than you are willing to take iustly to refute it Wherefore your course is either to misrecite or to misconstrue all that you bring In the oblations of the Law which prefigured the death of Christ I obserued that not only the Sacrifice was slaine by the shedding of bloud but that the person of the Priest was sanctified as well as the sinner presented by the Priest to God with earnest and humble prayer to make atonement for the trespasse And since the trueth must haue some resemblance with the figure Christ might in the Garden performe some points requisite to his Priesthood as the sanctifying of himselfe with his owne bloud and presenting his bodie to be the redemption and remission of our sinnes with most instant and intentiue prayer for the transgressours This if you simply graunt as in wordes you say you doe tell vs now which way you will conclude Christes suffering of hell paines in the Garden from his bloudie sweat It hindereth not our assertion Much lesse doeth it further it but yet if there might be a cause of Christes voluntarie sprinckling himselfe with his owne bloud and dedicating it to Gods pleasure for mans redemption besides and without your hellish torments you will come shorter than you recken to make good your conclusion i Defenc. pag. 106. The Scriptures which you cite prooue indeed that Christ now executed his office of Priesthood but will you diuide and exempt his death on the Crosse from his Priesthood Who besides your selfe restraineth Christes euerlasting Priesthood either to the garden or to the crosse But it was one thing for Christ with feruent and submissiue prayer to present and submit his bodie which was his Sacrifice to the will of his Father as he did in the garden and another thing to receiue and admit the violent and wicked hands of the Iewes executing their rage on his bodie with all reproch and crueltie as he did on the crosse Now what had his Priesthood to do with the paines of hell since he was to present and performe the bloudie sacrifice of his bodie prefigured in the Law which he did in the garden and on the crosse And forsomuch as you grant that Christes bloudy sweat and his vehement prayers in the garden were pertinents to his Priesthood prefigured in the Law which indeed is k Hebr. 5. confirmed by the Apostle as you can shew no figure of suffering hell paines or the second death in the sacrifices of the Law no more doth either of these performed in the garden concerne any secret death of the soule which Christ there suffered from the immediate hand of God l Defenc. pag. 106. li. 14. Why say you not aswell that his death
of the Christian faith would any man in his right wits haue asked as Austen doth Who dare auouch it He discusseth the place of S. Peter and when he commeth to those words Christ was quickened in the spirit or by the spirit he resolueth this cannot be spoken of Christs humane soule because that which was afterwards quickened was first mortified and therefore we could not say that Christs humane spirit or soule was restored to life except we first yeelded that it was before subiected to death Now that Christs soule was euer dead who durst auouch it The reason why Christs soule could neuer die he rendreth thus for that the Scriptures acknowledge no death of the soule in any but sin and damnation to neither of which the soule of Christ could be subiect x August epist. 99. Certè anima Christi nullo mortificata peccato vel damnatione punita est quibus duabus causis mors animae intelligi potest Surely the soule of Christ was neither dead with any sin nor punished with damnation which are the two waies how the death of the soule may be possibly vnderstood This collection of S. Austins out of the Scriptures touching the death of the soule is most sound and cannot be shaken with all your shewes and shifts talke of ordinarie and extraordinarie as long as you will That standing good which yet we see immooueable for all your battery it followeth ineuitably that Christ ne did ne could die the death of the soule ne may any man defend it without apparent falsity and impiety What proofes you haue profered against S. Austins conclusion let the Reader iudge I must confesse my selfe very blind if he see any for I see none and therefore not only S. Austins words but his reasons out of holy Scripture stand firme and hold you fast to the grinding stone being no way as yet counteruailed or controled but with your vaine speaches and most vnlearned euasions y Defenc pag. 142. li. 2. Nay according to Austins owne definition of the soules dying it will easily appeare that Christes soule may be said to haue suffered some kind of death Mors est spiritus deseri a Deo The death of the soule saith he is Gods for saking of it but the Scripture saith God did forsake him for a season yea the Fathers also agree fully therevnto Therefore by Anstins definition largely and rightly taken Christ may be said in some sense to haue died in soule From your shifts you returne againe to your proofes and neither barrell is better herring The maior you thinke is Austins the minor is Christs owne words and what trow you should hinder the cōclusion This reason hath but three of your wonted flowers I must not say faults the maior is larger then Austen euer ment and the minor no way matcheth it except you quite alter the words of Christ and the conclusion commeth nothing neere to your purpose Examine them in order Not euery forsaking of the soule is death for the godly often in the Scriptures complaine as I haue shewed that they are forsaken of God when yet their soules liue but as life is repugnant to death and God is the life of the soule so till God haue vtterly forsaken the soule she is not dead Whiles she retaineth any fellowship of grace with God who is her life she is not dead because she partaketh with life As then death is the vtter priuation of life so God must vtterly forsake the soule before she can be pronounced to be dead and that kind of forsaking is indeed the death of the soule in this life So that your maior if euer you will come neere S. Austins meaning must be the death of the soule is Gods vtter for saking of the same And that thus you must conster S. Austins words appeareth euery where by his z In Psal. 70. in Iohan. tract 47. de verbis Apost Serm. 30. comparison with the death of the bodie which is not dead till the soule be vtterly departed from it For as the body which hath in it any power or presence of the soule is not dead but liuing so the soule that hath any communion with God who is her life can not be truely sayd to be dead but as yet to haue life Were you no Diuine but a plaine Sophister reason teacheth you so to vnderstand S. Austins words for where life and death be priuatiues as well in the soule as in the bodie the one hath no place till the other be vtterly quenched He is not blinde that hath any sight nor deafe that hath any hearing the priuation vtterly excludeth the habite neither is the soule dead that hath any force or effect of life in her and consequently not euerie forsaking but onely an vtter forsaking of God is the death of the soule heere in this life Your minor then should be that Christes Soule was vtterly forsaken of God which are not the words of Christ on the crosse nor any way consonant to them yea the verie entrance to that speech when Christ saide My God my God doth prooue the quite contrarie a Matth. 22. God is not the God of the dead but of the liuiug Then directly by the plaine wordes of Scripture when Christ said My God my God his soule confessing God to be his God was liuing and consequently the wordes following why hast thou forsaken me doe net prooue the death of the soule vnlesse you make the Sonne of God so vnwise as not to vnderstand what he said or so amazed that he marked not his owne speech which with you perchance is no absurditie but with me it is a wicked and vnchristian impietie Christes wordes therefore import that he found a kinde of forsaking but not that his soule was forsaken of the trueth grace or spirit of God these be blasphemies to auouch and no points of pietic nor that he was vtterly or altogither forsaken which onely is the death of the soule And against this wresting of Christes wordes from their right sense how many testimonies of scriptures and Fathers haue I sormerly brought all which you trippe ouer with a light foote and make as though you felt them not You haue beene told b Galat 3. the iust shall liue by saith So that if Christ wanted not faith he could not choose but liue in soule Againe c 1. Iohn 4. God is 〈◊〉 and he that dwelleth in loue dwelieth in God Christ then must either haue life or want loue for the loue of God is the life of the soule Farder the Spirit of God is the d Rom. 8. spirit of life that quickneth the soule yea then 〈◊〉 thereof is life and peace Then must you take from Christ the spirit of God with all the gifts and graces thereof before you can depriue the soule of Christ from life What an hellish heape of blasphemies are here before you can affirm that Christs soule was dead according to the Scriptures
to fast then to marrie Now for these very points that none are in Paradise but only martvrs and that the soules euen of the Patriarks and Prophets and all other godlie Christians are apud inferos in places vnder the earth and so shal be till the fulnesse of the resurrection Tertullian vrgeth in his booke De anima and in this chapter the authority of his paraclet which was the founder of Montanus new prophesies Agnosce differentiam Ethnici fidelis in morte si pro Deo occumbas vt pâ—…racletus moâ—…et non in mollibus febribus in lectulis sed in an Acknowledge the difference of an Ethnicke and a beleeuer euen in their deaths if thou die for Gods cause as the Paraclet warneth not in casie agues and soft beddes but in Martyrdomes And that these were the very words of Montanus new prophesie may easily be perceaued by Tertullian himselfe who writing against all flight in persecution which booke was specially written against the Church by Ieroms owne confession citeth them as the words of the spirit to witte in the new prophesies of Montanus Spiritum si consulas c omnes pene ad martyriuns exhortatur non ad fugam vt illius commemâ—…ur publicaris inquit â—…onum libi est Qui enim non publicatur in hominibus publicatur in Domino Sic aâ—…bi Nolite in lectulis febribus mâ—…llibus optare exire sed in Martyrijs If thou take counsell of the spirit he exhorteth all very neere to Martyrdome not to flight as to remember you of that speach Art thou made a publike example saith he it is good for thee He that is not made a publike â—…xample amgoÌ„st men shal be made one with God And so in another place desire not to depart this life in beds easie agues but in Martyrdomes These words Tertullian alleageth as euidently written by the spirit which since they be no where found in any part of the new or old Testament disagree both in words matter from the stile truth of the sacred Scriptures they sauour of another spirit must of force be referred to the prophesies of Montanus who in this very point was condemned by the church of Christ against which as Ierom auoucheth Tertuilian wrote this book in fauor of Montanus heresie And so much also that learned obseruer Rhenanus affirmeth vpon this place Verba sunt Prophetiae Paracleti Montanici These are the words of the prophesie of Montanus spirit Your friends therefore who lent you their paines were not well aduised in excusing Tertullian in this matter from Montanisme since not onely the error of Montanus is heere defended but the verie words of his new reuelation are heere alleadged Also in that obiection of certaine Heretickes whom he confuteth not the true Christians as you misconceaue They argued thus as you doe In hoc Christus inferos adijt ne nos adiremus Christ therefore went to hell to the end we should neuer come there He answereth them that it is false that Christ went to inferos in that sense that is to hell For then what difference is there between the wicked heathen and the godly Christians if one and the same prison after death were for them both taking it for a thing generally graunted in the Church that it were a WICKED AND HERETICALL THING to thinke he went where the damned were that is into hell Ignorance maketh you not onely blind and bold but presumptuous and sawcie to acquite from heresie and condemne for heresie whom pleaseth you And therefore I must not thinke it strange to be chalenged by you for a wicked and hereticall opinion since you grosly belie the whole Church of Christ and dippe them in the same vate of wicked and heretical things with me You wilfully wrest and misconstrue Tertullians words smoothing him in a manifest error against the whole Church of Christ and roling them vp with wicked heresie that were the greatest lights of Christian religion next after the Apostles Tertullians resolutions in this very Chapter are plaine enough to him that is not more then blind Habes de Paradiso anobie libellum quo constituimus omnem animam apud inferos sequestrari in diem Domini Thou hast a book of ours written touching Paradise wherein we determine all soules to be kept sequestred apud inferos in infernall places till the day of the Lord. And in the sentence next before that which you cite he sayth with like confidence Habes regionem inferûm subterraneam credere illos cubito pellere qui satis superbè non putent animas fideliuÌ„ inferis dignas serui super DominuÌ„ Discipuli super MagistruÌ„ aspernati si forte in Abrahae sinu expectandae resurrectionis solatium carpere Thou hast to beleeue that the region of inferi is vnder the earth and to push them from their opinions who proudly enough will not thinke the soules of the faithfull to be fitte for infernall or Iower places seruants aboue their Lord and Scholers aboue their Masters in that they skorne perhaps to haue the comfort of expecting the resurrection in Abrahams bosome Heere Tertullian positiuely declareth that he taketh inferi for a place or Region vnder the earth and that such as thought not the soules of the faithfull fitte for that place till the resurrection did proudly presume to be aboue their Lord and Master and skorne Abrahams bosome where the rest of the Patriarks Prophets are kept as he dreameth and so shal be till the day of iudgement Now whose opinion I pray you was this that the soules of the faithfull after Christs resurrection went to Paradise and not to places vnder the earth was it not the maine confession of Christs Church Tertullian then purposely refuting that opinion what els doth he but traduce the generall persuasion of the faithfull in fauour of his new prophesie which reserued Paradise onely for Martyrs and in that respect abandoned all the soules of the godly dying in their beds to places vnder the earth there to be kept till Christes comming But examine the words which he reiecteth and see if they sauour of heresie or Christianity For thereby we shall best iudge whether they were Hereticks or Christians whom he there impugned His words are Sed in hoc inquiunt Christus inseros 〈◊〉 ne nos adiremus But to this â—…rd say they Christ went to inferi the places bâ—…low that we should not come thither If these wordes imply heresie then was Saint Austen a manifest hereticke for he affirmed as much in effect as this commeth vnto Ideo Christus peruenit vsâ—… ad infernum ne nos maneremus in inferno Therefore Christ came euen vnto hell that we should not remaine in hell Men that come thither abide there If therefore Christ freed vs by his descent thither from remaining there he freed vs from comming thither And Ambrose was likewise an
doth the like He retaineth in the same verse the word hawwito twice saying as Iunius rendreth it God raised him vp and scattered the sorrowes of perditien because it was not possible that he should be coÌ„quered of perdition Where Iunius plainly yeeldeth that this word in Arabicke answereth the Greeke word f hadou not thanátou which appeareth also in the 6 verse of the same chap. Thou wilt not leaue my soule phâ—… hawwito in perdition Which Saint Luke calleth hades and in the 10 Christ was not left in perdition So that Austen had some reason more then you knew to follow the first translator concurring with many Greeke copies that then were and yet are extant and with the Syricke and Arabicke translations who followed the same copies with the Latin church This text is cited in Ireneus â—… whom God raised sâ—…lutis deloribus inferorum quia non erat possible teneri eum ab eis loosing the sorrowes of hell because it was not possible for him to be held of them Cyprian thus expresseth it Impossibile quippe erat sanctam illam animam teneri ab inferis It was impossible for that sacred soule to be held of hell Fulgentius citeth it Solutis inferni doloribus the sorrowes of hell being loosed Bede taketh both for one in this place k Solutosper Dominum dicit dolores inferni siue mortis Peter saith the sorows of hell or death were dissolued by Christ. Since then both are found in many Greeke copies and neither can be reiected as false the name of death if you retaine it must be so expounded as it may not impugne the force of hades and death hauing a double power place and subiect as the death of the body heere on earth and the death of the soule in hell heereafter this later death and hell doe rightly match together the sorrowes of which were losed by Christ because it was impossible for him to be taken or touched by them You quarrell also with the translation which Austen followed for saying in illis in them though that be the right intent of the text and you sticke not to straine Peters words to what higth you list So that you keepe the words and alter the sense and Austen keepeth the sense though he vary somewhat from the words For that was loosed of which it was impossible Christ should be held and euen therefore was it to be loosed because he could not be held therein But the sorrowes of death or hell were loosed It was therefore impossible Christ should be held of them I meane of the sorrowes of either The sense then is rightly and aptly taken though the plurall be put in stood of the singular and Caluin himselfe in respect of the sense retaineth that change though the words doe somewhat differ from the text In this sense Peter saith Christ rose the sorowes of death being loosed â—…a quibus impossibile erat ipsum tenert of which sorrowes it was impossible he should be held Now if you or any man els can find vs those sorrowes after Christs bodily death we are readie to heare you for they were loosed when Christ was raised but if you cannot as in vaine you haue profered to doe then must the words be expounded that though the soule of Christ after death were in hades euen in the place of torment where it was not left nor forsaken yet the sorowes thereof could not touch him but he loosed and scattered them when he was raised to immortality and heauenly power and glory persuaded of this point heare him againe in the same Epistle Quamobrem teneamus firmissimè quod fides habet fundatissima authoritate sirmata quia Christus mortuus est secundum Scripturas quia sepultus est quia resurrexit tertia die secundum Scripturas cetera quae de illo testatissima veritate conscripta sunt In quibus etiam hoc est quod apud inferos fuit solutis eorum doloribus quibus eum erat impossibile teneri Wherefore let vs most firmely hold that which our faith hath being confirmed by most grounded authority as that Christ died according to the Scriptures and was buried and rose the third day according to the Scriptures and the rest of those things which are written of him in trueth most cleerely testified Amongst which this is also one point that he was in hell and loosed the sorrowes thereof of which it was impossible he should be held This is such a resolution that if you were soberly minded and not phantastically conceited as well in doctrine as in Discipline you would beware how you crossed the faith of the whole Church without more pregnant and euident matter then you haue any and not thinke it enough to shift with Poeticall fansies metaphoricall senses and palpable contrarieties and falsities such as few men would fall into besides your selfe And as for the exposition of Peters wordes which Austen leaueth indifferent if it dislike any man that concerneth the place of Peters first Epistle the third Chapter beginning at the 18. verse How Christ in spirit went and preached vnto the spirits in prison who were disobedient in the daies of Noe Which was the question proposed to him by Euodius to whom he wrote his 99. Epistle And of that he saith Consider yet least happely all that which Peter speaketh of spirits closed in prison which beleeued not in the daies of Noe omnino ad inferos non pertineat sed ad illa potius tempora quorum formam ad haec tempora transtulit pertaine not at all to hell but to those times which Peter compareth with these times And after large discoursing how that comparison might stand he concludeth with your words This exposition of Peters words if it dislike any or doe not satisfie quaerat ea secundum Inferos intelligere let him seeke in Gods Name how to fit the things there written to them in hell So that his exposition subiected to other mens liking did not concerne hell at all nor Christs preaching there but the preaching of repentance in the daies of Noah by the spirit of Christ and if any man liked not that exposition of Peters words he might seeke how to make Peters words agree with things done in hell if he could tell how to performe it Moe circumstances of this text Acts 2. do make affirmatiuely for vs first Peter plainly graunteth all this matter of Dauid as wel as of Christ. But that I am well acquainted with your pertinacie I should muze at this insolencie Peter doth exactly proue that this prophesie was neuer verified in Dauid because Dauids flesh saw corruption as was euident by his Sepulchre remaining with them to that day Since then it was not true of Dauids person that he saw no corruption he spake this as a Prophet knowing that God had sworne to raise vp Christ concerning the flesh to set him vpon his throne You
punishment and payment and vengeance for sinne such as the godly doe in no wise suffer Christ onely hauing wholy suffered that for vs all Therefore indeede his sufferings proceded from Gods proper wrath and were the true effects of Gods meere Iustice bent to take recompence on him for our offences Thou hast in these words Christian Reader the bulwarke of this mans cause concluding that Christ suffered the MEERE IVSTICE PROPER VVRATH and very CVRSE of God for sinne The frame of his reason if I vnderstand it as who vnderstandeth his mysteries but himselfe is this All paine in man is from God either as correction of sinne or as punishment for sinne In Christ there was no ‖ cause and so no neede of ‖ correction his sufferings therefore were the punishments of sinne They were punishments for sinne Ergo they were the true punishment proper payment wages and vengeance of sinne which proceeded from Gods proper wrath and were the true effects of Gods mâ—…ere iustice bent to take recompence on him for our offences His termes of TRVE PROPER and MEERE ioyned to the PVNISHMENT VVRATH and IVSTICE of God are not warranted by any Scripture much lesse referred to the sufferings of Christ nor so much as prooued by any testimony defined with any certaintie directed by any part or expounded by any meanes but onely proiected as Ridles and laberinthes to weary the wise to angle the simple and to refuge himselfe when he shall be pressed with the falsitie and impietie of his assertions Least therefore we wrangle about words in vaine which is his desire and deuise that he may seeme to say somewhat and carry the Reader into a forest of strange and vnknowen phrases where he shall hardly discerne what either side saith I thâ—…nke it needefull first to declare what the Scriptures meane by the wages of sinne and wrath of God and so to trie in what sense and with what truth his termes may be added to them and applyed to the sufferings of Christ. The wages of sinne is death saith S. Paul God himselfe foretold Adam it should be so Whensoeuer thou catest of the forbidden tree thou shalt die the death Then how many kinds of death are by God threatned and inflicted on sinners so many parts must the wages of sinne containe Now those are three the death of the Soule in this life which I call spirituall the death of the body leauing this life which I call corporall and the death of both in the next world which I call eternall For as man had two parts by which he did liue Soule and body and two places wherein he might liue if he obeyed God earth for a time and heauen for euer so disobedience depriued either part of man in either place of the life which he should haue enioyed and subiected him to the feares griefes and paines of death both here and in hell for euer The life of the body is the vnion of the Soule with the body the effects whereof are sense and motion to discerne obtaine and performe that which is needfull or healthfull for the body And as the presence of the Soule bringeth life to the body so the departing of the Soule taketh life from the body and leaueth it dead that is voide of all action motion and sense as to euery mans eyes is apparent in dead bodies The Soule therefore in the Scriptures is vsually taken for the life of the body which proceedeth from the Soule and is maintained by the Soule And these phrases to seeke a mans Soule tolay downe his owne Soule or to giue it for another to powre out his Soule vnto death with such like doe properly expresse the death of the body quickned by the Soule because men loose or leaue this life when they loose or leaue their Soules And where God threatned death to Adam euen the very same day in which he should transgresse we must not thinke that God either delayed the punishment longer or extended it farder then his words at first imported When therefore the very same day that they sinned God said to the woman increasing I will increase thy sorrow and to the man In sorrow shalt thou eate all the daies of thy life we must acknowledge that from that time forward death began to take hold and worke on both their bodies though not by present separation of the Soule from the body for Adam liued after that 930. yeeres yet by mortalitie mutabilitie miserie and namely by sorrow and paine as the instruments and agents of death Worldly sorrow causeth death as Paul witnesseth and a broken hart saith Salomon drieth the bones yea sorrow hath slaine maxy And were it not so written yet experience and nature teacheth vs that griefe of mind and paine of body where they continue or increase consume the flesh and hasten death so that when God the same day that they sinned subiected them to sorrow and paine which before they felt not He made way for death that it might continually worke in them and â—…ken them till they returned to dust The tiâ—…e of this life saith Austâ—…n is nothing elsâ—… but a race to death and truely after a mâ—…n begiâ—…th to be in this bâ—…dy he is in death The life of the soule is not her vnderstanding and will which she can neuer lose no not in hell but onely the trueth and graâ—…e of God by whose spirit she receiueth the light of faith to direct her and the strength of loue to stirre and iâ—…cite her in tâ—…is life to beholde desire and embrace the holinesse and goodnesse of Gods blessed will and promise for her euerlasting happinesse which with patience and comfort of the Holy ghost she expecteth till Gods appointed time do come The lacke or losse of this inward sense and motion of Gods spirit which only can quicken the soule is the death of the soule depriued of her life which is God and left to herselfe in blindnesse and hardnesse of heart and giuen ouer vnto a reprobaâ—…e minde and vile affections to worke wickednesse euen with greedinesse till contempt of Gods will and desperation of his mercy doe fearefully end her miserable time in this life and violently draw her from hence to see and suffer the terrible iudgements of God prouided for sinne in another world Life euerlasting is the perfect and perpetuall vision and fruition of Gods glorious presence in the heauens where vnspeakable light and honour ioy and bliâ—…e shall compasse and replenish bodie and soule in the fellowship of Christ and his elect angels for euer The exclusion and reiection of the wicked from this heauenly fâ—…licity together with the shame and confusion of sinne wounding and stinging the conscience without ease or rest and the dreadfull horror of hell the place of darknesse and diuels hauing in it continuall flames of intolerable and vnquenchable fire eternallie tormenting the soules and bodies of the damned the Scriptures call the sâ—…cond death
had God chiefly respected the execution of his iustice against sinne his owne sonne was most vnfit to be subiected to that vengeance which was prepared for deuils but God in the recompense which he required for sinne chose rather to haue his holinesse contented and his glory aduanced than to haue his iustice inflicted to the vttermost And therefore he selected the person of his owne sonne that might fully satisfie his holinesse and maruellously exalt his glorie but on whom of all others his iustice could take least holde not that his iustice should be neglected but that a moderate punishment in his person for the worthinesse thereof would weigh more euen in the balance of Gods exact iustice than the depth of Gods wrath executed on all the transgressours The chastisement of our peace layd vpon him will proue the same For where the wages of sinne is death and death due to sinne is threefold spirituall corporall and eternall as I haue formerly shewed such was the person of our Sauiour that two parts of death due to sinne could by no rule of Gods iustice fasten on Christes humane nature The gifts of Gods spirit and grace could not be quenched nor diminished in him he was full of grace and trueth he had not the spirit by measure as we haue but of his fulnesse we all haue receiued It is my father saith he that honoureth me whom ye say to be your God yet haue ye not knowen him but I know him and if I should say I know him not I should be a liar like vnto you but I know him and keepe his word and do alwayes the things that please him The cleerenesse of trueth knowing Gods will and fulnesse of grace keeping his word beeing continually present with the humane soule of Christ most apparently the death of the soule which excludeth all inward sense and motion of Gods spirit could haue no place in him by reason the death of the soule is the want of all grace and height of all sinne from which he was free much lesse could any part of Christs manhood by Gods iustice be condemned to euerlasting death or to hell fire since there could nothing befall the humanitie of Christ which was vnfit for his Diuinitie they both being inseparably ioyned together or repugnant to that loue which God so often professed and proclamed from heauen or iniurious to the innocencie and obedience which God so highly accepted and rewarded or preiudiciall to mans saluation which God so long before purposed and promised No weight of sinne no heat of wrath no rigour of iustice could preuaile against the least of these to cast Christ out of heauen and combine him with diuels in the second death which is the lake burning with fire and brimstone There is onely left the third kinde of death which is corporall to which Christ yeelded himselfe willingly for the conseruation of Gods iustice who inflicted that paine on all men as the generall punishment of sinne for the demonstration of his power who by death ouercame death together with the cause and consequents thereof and for the consolation of the godly that they should not faint vnder the crosse nor feare what sinne and Satan could do against them It was loue then in God towards vs to giue his sonne for vs So God loued the world that he gaue his only begotten sonne that whosoeuer beleeueth in him should not perish but haue life euerlasting but farre greater loue to his sonne than to vs though the burden of our sinnes which we could not beare were layd vpon him For since God hath adopted vs through Christ Iesus vnto himselfe and made vs accepted in his beloued of force he must be much better beloued for whose sake we all are beloued And if to make the world by his sonne were an excellent demonstration of Gods euerlasting and exceeding loue towards his sonne to send him into the world that the world through him might be saued doth as farre in honour and loue exceed the former as our Redemption by which heauen is inherited doth passe our creation whereby the earth was first inhabited Neither was it possible that God should remit the rigor of iustice against sinne for the loue of any but onely of his owne sonne whom because he loued as deerely as himselfe and had made heire of all things worthily and rightly did the wrath of God against man asswage and yeeld to the loue of God towards his owne sonne against whom no punishment could proceed but such as was fatherly and serued rather to witnesse obedience than to execute vengeance For though you Sir Discourser in the height of your vnlearned skill resolue that Christ could suffer no chastisement but all his sufferings were the true and proper punishment or iust vengeance of God for sinne yet the Prophet Esay telleth vs the chastisment of our peace was vpon him and the word Musar which the Prophet there vseth deriued from Iasar is the proper word that in the Scripture signifieth the correction of a father towards his sonne and of God likewise towards his Church Chastise thy sonne saith Salomon while there is hope As a father chasteneth his sonne ‖ so ‖ the Lord chasteneth thee sayth Moses to Israel My Sonne refuse not the chastening of the Lord. Blessed is the man whom thou Lord doest chasten The like may be seene by those that will looke Deutr. 21. vers 18. Ierem. 2. vers 30. Ierem. 31. vers 18. Psal. 118. vers 18. The Apostle concurreth with the Prophet Esay touching Christes sufferings and sayth Though he were the sonne yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered He learned obedience which is the subiection of a sonne to his fathers chastisement he tasted not vengeance which is the indignation of an enemie requiting Yea the very death which Christ suffered in the body of his flesh was so farre from being an effect of Gods proper wrath that it was an increase of Gods loue towards him and as well the price of our Redemption as the cause of all his honor following Therefore the Father loueth me sayth our Sauiour because I lay downe my soule or life to take it againe And so much the Prophet foretolde Therefore will I giue him sayth God a part in many things and he shall diuide the spoile of or with the mightie because he poured out his soule or life vnto death Which the Apostle sheweth to be thus verified in Christ. He humbled himselfe being obedient vnto the death euen the death of the Crosse. Wherefore God also highly exalted him and gaue him a name aboue euery name that in the name of Iesu euery knee should bow of things celestiall terrestrial and infernall euery tongue confesse that Iesus Christ is the Lord to the glory of God the father All power honour and iudgement in heauen earth and hell are therefore deliuered
the wages thereof to be finall depriuation of all grace and glorie and eternall damnation of bodie and soule to hell-fire how can she but quake and tremble at the very cogitation and remembrance of her owne guiltinesse and of the greatnesse of his power and iustnesse of his anger And therefore the godlie presently fall vpon the consideration hereof to condemne and detest all their sinnes and with broken and contrite harts to lament their vnrighteousnesse and to afflict their spirits with earnest and inward sorrow till by faith and repentance they find comfort in the mercies of God through Christ Iesus For want of which the wicked often in this life and speciallie at the houre of death sincke vnder the burden of their sinnes and plunged into the depth of desperation are possessed with an horrible fright and terror of the torments prepared for them in another world they feeling here on earth in their soules the remorse of sinne and sting of conscience but not able to rise vnto true repentance and hope of saluation by reason of their continuall contempt of grace whiles it was offered them which then is taken from them After this life appeare the terrible iudgements of God against sinne which the wicked so much feare and the faithful so much shun the speciall maner and meanes whereof as farre as the Scriptures deliuer them I will deferre till I come to the particular handling of them though I haue often proposed them and in part proued them but whether the words of the Scripture expressing them be allegories that is figuratiue shadowes or plaine speeches that question is not yet debated which I reserue till I haue ended the immediate suffering of the soule as this Discourser calleth it Of these sixe meanes besides the immediate hand of God to inflict paine on the soule for the punishment of sinne it pleaseth you Sir Discourser to skip foure and the other two in effect to denie Affections you say are neither punishments nor corrections at all properly in themselues and suffering by sympathie from and with the bodie is common as you auouch to vs with beasts and is no proper humane suffering because in your iudgement your first kinde of suffering from the immediate hand of God alone is the proper humane suffering which for that cause your selfe call the soules proper and immediate suffering But what if in all this you speake not one true word what if the affections that be euill be properlie punishments of sinne what if the soules suffering from and with the bodie be the true and proper humane suffering what if God vse not his immediate hand in tormenting soules but hauing ordained and appointed meanes by his wisedome and power committeth sinfull soules to be punished by those instruments and meanes which he with his hand hath prepared and in his word expressed Do you not shew your selfe a deepe Diuine that prooue points of faith by open falsities and heape vp errours by the dozens binding them with your bare word and obtruding them to the world as oracles lately slipt from heauen but go to the parts and first to the affections which you affirme are no punishments whether they be good or euill The affections of the soule that be good as the loue of God the zeale of his glorie and hope of his mercie and trueth are the speciall gifts and graces of Gods spirit and so farre from paining the soule that they breed exceeding comfort and ioy in the Holieghost The affections that are eâ—…ill are not onely the rage and reward of sinne but inflict as great anguish as may be felt in this life Concupiscence which is the root and nurse of all euill affections in vs be they sensitiue or intellectiue what is it but the inordinate and intemperate desire and loue of our owne willes and pleasures despising and hating whatsoeuer resisteth or hindereth our deuices or delights yea though it be the will and hand of God himselfe this corruption of the soule by sinne which is now naturall in vs all whence came it but from and for the punishment of the first mans sinne what is it but the verie poison of sinne and whether tendeth it but to withstand and refuse all grace that men reiecting God and reiected of God may runne headlong to the finall and eternall vengeance of their sinne It is no small punishment of sinne for men to be left to the desires of their owne hearts and to be giuen ouer to vile affections which the Apostle calleth the reward of their error and euen the fulnesse of all vnrighteousnesse which make men the seruants of sinne whiles they wait on lusts and diuers pleasures which fight against the soule by leading it captiue vnto the law of sinne which is in the members And if you doubt whether they paine the soule or no looke but on their names or their effects and you shall soone be out of doubt Anger disdaine despaire dislike detestation feare sorrow ragâ—… furie for earthly things can these be so much as conceiued or named without euident impression or mention of paine yea the fairest of our affections and those which at first flarter vs most as loue desire and pleasure I speake still of euill and vnlawfull do they not quicklie faile sowerlie leaue and sharplie vexe with their remembrance and repentance the greatest seekers and owners of them In all these worldlie desires and delights S. Austens rule is generallie true Quod sine illiciente amore non habuit sine vrente dolore non perdet He that kept them not without alluring loue loseth them with afflicting griefe As for the intellectiue passions of the soule which are the trembling at Gods wrath the feare of his power and despaire of his fauour besides the shame of sinne griefe of heart and horror of hell what torments they breed in the condemned consciences of the wicked the godly may partly iudge by that which they sometimes taste notwithstanding their present recourse to the mercies and promises of God in Christ. So that euill affections aswell intellectiue as sensitiue be punishments of sinne and painfull to the soule howsoeuer your cogitations Sir Discourser be otherwise humored Concerning the soules suffering from and with the bodie which you say is common to vs with beasts if the soule do not consider for what cause at whose hand and to what end she suffereth as also how she may be freed and what thanks is due to her deliuerer she may be well likened to the Horse and Mule in whom is no vnderstanding but the brutish dulnesse of some earthly minded men doth not make this kind of suffering not to be properly humane which God from the beginning did and doth vse to all his seruants and saints his owne sonne not excepted and whereby God worketh in all his children correction probation perfection preparation to glorie which are things most proper to men and no way communicable vnto beasts God
is the substance of condemnation but also for that the rest of hell paines are not inflicted till both these take hold on the soules of men For so long as men haue any part or hope of heauen they are not condemned to hell neither shall the finall iudgement of God proceede against any till their owne consciences doe first conuict them and condemne them And therefore as in Christs sentence reiection and malediction stand before the rest so in perfourmance they must take place before eternall torment of fire shall follow Gods iudgement being certainely iust shall be without all contradiction euen in the consciences of the condemned who then shal be their owne accusers and as hell hath no communion with heauen no more can a man bee adiudged to hell but he must first be excluded from the possession and expectation of all heauenly ioy and blisse I speake of the order and coherence of the punishments not of any long distance of time betweene them forsomuch as that iudgement shal be as quickly executed as pronounced The torment of fire is the third part of this iudgemenâ—… which I make no question but you will acknowledge to be an essentiall paine of hell whatsoeuer you intend by the name of fire For if this also be accidentall to damnation I maruaile much what is substantiall But you are content to admit this for the substance of hell paines so you may allegorize it and make thereof what best fitteth your fansie Then if Christ suffered not the torment of hell fire so much threatned to the wicked in the Scriptures and inflicted on the damned by Christs sentence it is very plaine he suffered no part of the substance of hell paines vnlesse your learning serue you to say that when Christ commeth to giue Iudgement against all the damned he shall vtterly forget and mistake himselfe and in stead of the substance of hell paines pronounce onely the circumstances thereof against the reprobate both men and Angels Here therfore is the place to examine whether the fire of hell be allegoricall or no for that it is essentiall to the paines of hell can be no doubt with any but with Atheists and Infidels which know not God since it is named by Christ as a chiefe punishment prepared for the diuell and his Angels Wherein I wish thee gentle Reader aduisedly to marke what is said on either side it is a matter of no small moment both to Christian religion and true godlinesse whether it shall be lawfull for euery vnstable wit at his pleasure to allegorize whatsoeuer liketh not his humour in the sacred Scriptures For if the small and eternall Iudgement of God against the wicked be allegoricall then surely the reward of the faithfull from the same Iudge at the same time must likewise be allegoricall And if we once bring all that is threatned and promised in the world to come to be figures and allegories we endanger the power and iustice of God which must openly appeare to all the world in the punishment of sinne if he be a God and displeased and offended with sinne as also his mercy bountie and glorie in crowning his elect to be nothing but types and figures The end of all things which is the time of iudgement must openly and fully performe whatsoeuer God in this life threatneth or promiseth and if that day doe not plainly distinguish betweene righteousnesse and vnrighteousnesse the elect and the reprobate and shewe a most sensible difference betwixt the kingdome of heauen and the torments of hell to the view of men and Angels without figures or allegories no time after is or euer shal be appointed for that purpose The first reason which leadeth me to beleeue the fire of hell to to be a true substantiall and externall fire and no allegorie is that which is and must be the ground of all Religion to wit the proper signification of the word threatned in the Scriptures to the wicked and by Christ inflicted on the damned Otherwise if we hold not fast this rule not to runne to figures in expounding the Scriptures except the proper signification of the words in any place be against the trueth of faith or honestie of manners we shall leaue nothing sound or assured in the word of God For when the mind is possessed with any errour whatsoeuer the Scriptures auouch to the contrarie men thinke it to be figuratiue as S. Austen rightly obserueth Your selfe approue this rule when it maketh any thing for you your words are I like well that no figure is to be admitted in Scripture where there is no ill or hurtfull sense following litterally Now that externall and substantiall fire is denounced to the wicked in the Scriptures and shall accordingly torment the damned in hell what iniurie is it to the Christian faith or what repugnance hath it with the rest of the Scriptures We doe and must beleeue that Christ shall come to iudge the quicke and dead and with his owne mouth shall openly adiudge the reprobate to euerlasting fire prepared for the deuill and his angels What necessitie then is there to allegorize this fire It is impossible you thinke for soules and deuils which are spirits to be punished with externall and corporall fire and therefore the fire in your conceit must be figuratiue Shall it be impossible to God when he speaketh the word to performe the deede or is it too hard for you to conceaue the manner how it shall be done I trust you take not vpon you to restraine the maruailes of Gods workes to the reach of your wits or to measure the greatnesse of his arme by the weaknesse of your hand How many thousand things are there in the creation conseruation and alteration of the world in the aire in the earth and euery part thereof which are daily before our eyes and yet farre passe our vnderstanding To tie Gods trueth and glorie to your capacitie were madde deuinitie to make any thing vnpossible for him which his mouth hath spoken were meere infidelitie He that created spirits of nothing can as easily make them capable of paine and punishment from fire or whatsoeuer meane pleaseth him to vse But fire hee hath threatned vnto men and deuils By fire therefore shall they be tormented which his hand that is Almightie and his mouth that is all true shall perfourme in the sight of all the world A second reason is that Christ shall pronounce these words in Iudgement where the guiltie must perceiue what is their doome the ministers must know what they shall execute and the elect must discerne what they are to approoue Now allegories are exactly knowen onely to the speaker the hearers except they can search the heart can not certainely knowe the meaning of figures and parables till they be expounded Christs iudgement therefore shall be plaine and proper and containe nothing in it that any way may hinder the present and euident conception execution or approbation
whatsoeuer is within hell is nothing but fire God perfourmeth that hell shall flame with perpetuall fire euen as in many places and hilles of the earth an unwasted store of brimstone is found that euen thence we may gather there may be Riuers and lakes of brimstone in hell All these things the Almightie knoweth how to prepare that these torments may â—…itte both Soules and bodies so that we haue no neede to dispute whether this fire and brimstone be corporall and if it be corporall how it worketh vpon spirituall substances The Lord as I now said can fit all these to either part of man that in truth they may be inflicted as well on the bodies as on the spirits of the damned which here the Prophet foretelleth If thou hadst rather dispute against them and wilt not now beleeue these things doubtles thou shalt one day trie them by experience Gualter vpon the same place Esaie teacheth what heil is The inside thereof is fire that is how deepe and wide soeuer hell is it is all fire and burneth euerlastingly For so he describeth the sharpnes of the punishment which the wicked shall there suffer And lest any should aske what matter can suffice to maintaine such a fire the Prophet saith there is great store of wood He that made hell hath plentifully prouided that the fire there shall neuer goe out For filthie lustes and lewd actes not purged by â—…aith and guiltie mindes yeeld perpetuall matter and maintenance to those flames Yea and the bodies also of the wicked shall be incorruptible that they may suffer continuall fire and flame and dure therein He mentioneth also a streame of brimstone whereof the Apocalypse speaketh that we should remember and consider those things which are in nature For so many ages hath the fire of Aetna continued and still doth casting vp flames of brimstone He then that kindleth these things in nature without the helpe or assistance of men he also can kindle and maintaine the fire of hell that it shall neuer faile Musculus commenting vpon the 25. of Mathew sayth Those who measure all things by the rule of reason and thinke nothing firme that cannot be comprehended by mans witte dispute how it is possible that the body should alwaies burne in hell and not consume which is repugnant to the nature of the body They likewise dispute how fire can burne not onely bodies but also wicked spirits which haue no bodies These curious men thinke that to be against nature which is done by Gods will neither doe they consider the nature of all creatures to haue and be that which they haue and are by Gods commandement Others quarrell with the qualitie of the fire and thinke it no corporall but a metaphoricall fire which they take â—…or an exceeding paine and sorrow of minde This they gather out of the 9. of Marke where Christ saith their worme dieth not and the sire quencheth not Here as by the name of worme no corporall worme is to be vnderstood but a great and continuall remorse of mind so they thinke by the word fire no corporall fire but a metaphoricall must be conceaued I take it to be rashnes and not the part of a christian man thus to dispute of the qualitie of this fire but rather leauing the certaine knowledge thereof to the Iudge to prouide that we trie it not one day what manner of sire it is Zanchius very soberly and learnedly examining this question resolueth in this sort It is certaine the diuels together with all the wicked shall be in euerlasting fire and therein tormented Christ plainely professeth he will say to the wicked depart into euerlasting fire prepared for the diuell and his Angels What manner of fire it shall be I dispute not because the Scripture doth not expresse it but this is without question that not onely the soules of the wicked but also their bodies shall suffer torment FROM THIS FIRE and therefore the fire such as may worke vpon their bodies and inflict on them a farre greater paine then our materiall fire doth impresse on vs. What qualitie soeuer it shall be of it seemeth it shall be altogether a corporall creature which may worke vpon bodies and torment them Which being so IT IS MANIFEST the diuell shall suffer paine and torment from a corporall thing I meane from this sire and that euerlastingly therefore it is called eternall and vnquenchable fire And asking your question How is it possible that spirituall substances should suffer from corporall he answereth We haue an example in our selues in whom the soule suffereth many things from the body by her coniunction with it Againe what can resist the power and will of God Let this doubt therefore depart from the minds of the faithfull I produce these later writers of great learning and good religion as I might many moe to let thee vnderstand gentle Reader that I neither presse the Scriptures nor cite the Fathers to any other purpose but to that which by all their iudgements is Christian and catholike and howsoeuer some men otherwise learned but carried with this new conceite of Christs suffering the essentiall paines of the damned to colour their deuise call these things in question yet the most aduised and sufficient Diuines of our age haue clearely confessed that which I teach to accord with the holy Scriptures and to be held of the godly without contradiction The ancient Fathers of Christs Church vphold the same doctrine and teach the fire of hell to be an externall visible and true fire and not a spirituall and internall paine onely as this Discourser intendeth With no speech sayth Chrysostome can any man expresse it here but els where we shal see it most plainely Set now before thine eyes that horrible way which shal carrie thee headlong to the fire and the deuils readie with torments and the persons deliuered to such cruel tormentors These things shal be in that day Let vs alwayes thinke on these things sayth Austen lest it repent vs too late when we come to the sight of eternal fire For the burning pit of hell shal be laid open there shal be a descent but no ascent Call to minde saith Basil that terrible tribunal of Christ which no creature may indure there must euery one of vs be presented to render an account of his life About those that haue liued wickedly shal stand fearefull and grisly angels beholding the sire and kindling it Then shall they see a deepe gulfe and darkenes that no eyes can pierce through and an obscure fire that with blackenesse hath lost his shining but kept his burning Alas saith Cyril what a place is that where is weeping and gnashing of teeth which is called hell which the deuil himselfe abhorreth Alas what a Gehenne of vnquenched sire is that which burneth and shineth not how venemous is that worme which neuer resteth how terrible is that deepe and euerduring darkenesse how cruel in
his minde as by his sense and you nothing the neerer to your purpose of his suffering hell paines in mind from the immediate hand of God but to let the Reader see how you catch at Fathers for an aduantage without any shew of their words and when they make against you you reiect with disdaine the whole aray of them Your diuiding of man into his parts and your resolutions thereupon are more absurd and haue neither trueth learning nor common vnderstanding in them Of man to shew your exactnesse you make these partes â—…e bodie the externall sensitiue part of the soule the whole spirit and vnderstanding also You name here the bodie the soule and the spirit but so vntowardly that neither your selfe nor any man els can tell how to make them agree Hath the soule if you will needes distinguish it from the spirit no moe parts or powers to suffer or to be saued but the externall sensitiue part will you take the soule to be all one with the spirit and so make the whole spirit as much as the whole soule But the Apostle reckoneth the whole spirit the soule and the bodie whose words you would seeme to follow and so seuereth the soule from the spirit But not by the externall sensitiue part as you doe Againe why adde you the vnderstanding also after the whole spirit As if it were no part thereof but a different thing from the spirit But this is your skill when you come to any matter of importance to wrap it in ambiguous and confused termes that it shall be more masterie to vnderstand you then to refute you And how commeth it about by your Philosophie that the sufferings of the soule by and from the body pierce no farder then into the externall senses of the soule Doe the sufferings of the body offend and afflict the powers onely or the substance also of the soule Is not the very substance of the Soule passible and punishable as well by the powers of sense as by the affections and vnderstanding The actions passions powers and faculties of the soule are they not all grounded on and seated in the substance of the soule so that from thence all the actions thereof must proceed therein all the passions thereof must be receiued and thereon all the faculties thereof depend Are you so learned in logick that you will bring vs passions without a subiect or powers and faculties without a substance Whether it be therefore by the vnderstanding will affections or sense that the soule suffereth the substance thereof suffereth by those powers and meanes and not any part thereof for so much as the substance of the soule is not diuisible into parts as being a spirit though the powers and faculties thereof may be distinguished and called parts Then is it a strange position of yours that the sensitiue part suffereth or that the vnderstanding suffereth and not the soule by either of them when indeed the substance of the soule suffereth by or from her power or faculties of sense vnderstanding and will which are the meanes that God hath made to impresse paine on the soule For the vnderstanding which you call the mind is no more a seuerall substance in the soule then the power of sense is and the soule not onely discerneth particular things by her facultie of sense as she doth consequent and generall things by hir facultie of reason but by the eares and eyes she heareth the word and beholdeth the works of God whence commeth information of faith and truth Of the vnderstanding Epiphanius saith 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. I thinke not our mind to be any substance of it selfe neither hath any of the children of the Church so thought but to be an effectuall power or operation giuen of God and abiding in vs. Of the sense Tertullian saith Anima perinde per corpus corporalia sentit quemadmodum per animam incorporalia intelligit The soule perceiueth corporall things by the sense euen as she doth vnderstand incorporall things by the mind And shewing how both those powers depend on the soule he addeth Sit nunc potior sensu intellectus dummodo ipse propria vis animae quod sensus Let the vnderstanding excell the sense so that it be a proper facultie of the Soule as the sense is Of the passions of Christs Soule Fulgentius writeth Nunc ostendendum nobis est passionem tristitiae maeroris taedij timoris ad animae substantiam propriè pertinere Now must we shew that the passion of sorrow heauinesse and loathing of hart and feare which our Sauiour felt pertaine properly to the substance of the soule And at the length concluding that the flesh of it selfe can neither haue life nor sense nor sorrow nor desire nor feare nor mourning he saith Haec ergo cuncta in anima quam susceperat pertulit Christus vt veram totamque in se cum suis infirmitatibus hominis demonstraret accepti substantiam All these passions Christ endured in his soule which he tooke that he might shew in himselfe THE TRVE AND VVHOLE SVBSTANCE of a man with his infirmities The purpose for which you pretend so many Fathers is as idle as all the rest for the Soule of Christ might suffer by her senses by her affections by her vnderstanding and will and yet not suffer the paines of hell nor the death of the soule which is your doctrine Though therefore the Fathers doe say that the soule of Christ suffered in his death and passion which is a thing I neuer doubted of much lesse called in question yet neither auouch they it suffered your hell paines neither from the immediate hand of God as your deuice leadeth which things are as strange to them as those they neuer heard of By the Fathers Christ suffered exactly all and whatsoeuer sorrowes and paines which we should haue suffered as well spirituall as corporall as well in all the powers of the soule subiect to suffering as in that which suffered alwaies with and from the body This if you would prooue by the Fathers themselues and not by your false translating and misapplying their words which otherwise haue no such thing you said somewhat You haue raked together some places alleaged formerly by me or formerly refuted by me and out of them you would make fresh shewes if you could tell how There is onely one place of Cyrill taken out of my Sermons by you as you doe the rest of your authorities which hath generall termes apt to be wrested by you and forced against the Authors minde which you forget not to straine to the vttermost the rest are miserably racked without cause or colour from the Fathers mindes and wordes Cyrill saith Omnia Christus perpessus est vt nos ab omnibus liberaret Christ suffered all things that he might free vs from all where the word ALL is found which you make the ground of all your descant
suffer then Christ did not so suffer If you flie to the purpose of the punisher which was different in Christ and his members and thinke there to succour your selfe you come to short the purpose of God in Christes afflictions as I haue shewed by the Scriptures was farre more fauourable and honourable in Christ then it can bee to any of the elect And therefore Gods purpose in Christes punishment will far der free him from hell paines then it will any of the faithfull The proportion of the pain which Christ suffered the inward peace of the sufferer will proue the same For where the paines of hell exceed the patience of men and Angels and are no way possible to bee suffered in the weaknesse of our mortall bodies the measure of Christes paine was so proportioned to the strength of his flesh that it neither ouerwhelmed his life nor his patience And though his sweate were like bloud in his earnest prayer and Agonie yet no Scripture decideth whether that were for paine feare or zeale and that dured but a while in the Garden where as after when his afflictions and paines were at sorest he shewed no signe of shrinking either at the torments of his body or at the affliction of his minde but as the Apostle saith For the ioy set before him endured the Crosse and despised the shame not wearied nor fainting in minde but with most perfect obedience and quiet patience persisting to the ende This conflict betweene paine and patience to serue Gods glorie and obey Gods will Christ proposeth to all his members on the same condition that it was offered to his humane nature To him that ouercommeth saith he will I giue to sit with me in my throne euen as I ouercame and â—…it with my Father in his throne As for the consequents of hell paines it is so brutish blasphemie to affirme them of Christ that I forbeare to obiect them I haue often named them and you say you abhorre such blasphemies as well as â—… doe that Christ so suffered hell paines But Sir you your friends must shew by the Scriptures that God hath seuered these consequents I meane reiection reprobation confusion malediction diction desperation and such like from the true paines of hell The Scripture proposeth them as necessarie and infallible consequents to the true paines of hell You will seuer them because otherwise Christ must either not suffer the true paines of hell which euerteth all your new Doctrine or he must also suffer these which the Scriptures annexe to the true paines of hell If you confesse the first that Christ did not suffer the true paines of hell the Question is well ended If you seuer these consequents from the true paines of hell shew by what authoritie of sacred Scriptures you doe it and then you may be excused from lewd and wicked presumption For if God by his word reuealed hath ioyned them together you doe or should know what sacriledge it is for your pleasure to pull them in sunder Let your Reader therefore iudge whether you can be quited from the one except you shew good warrant for the other which as yet you neither haue done nor offered to doe Your selfe graunt expresly that the wrath of God is hell indeede onely it causeth hell to be cruell yea you grant it to be sharper then hell So that we see hereby how vainely you say out of this proposition Christ suffered for vs the wrath of God for sinne I shall neuer conclude ergo he suffered the true paines of hell I haue here shewed you I trust that this followeth well seeing the wrath of God which Christ felâ—… in his spirit was his right and proper wrath albeit he suffered not all nor the whole wrath of God nor euery part thereof iust as the damned doe Here you see your full purpose is to conclude that Christ suffred for vs the true paines of hell though it hath beene your policie to conceale so much from the Reader all this while And indeede howsoeuer you dissemble it because you can no way prooueit The death of Christes soule and the true paines of hell or of the Damned are the maine markes which you shoote at though you closely carie it in other termes which are more generall and ambiguous as the wrath of God and the punishment of sinne to keepe your Reader from discouering your foolish reasons and reiecting your wicked deuices But cough vp your conceites freely and wander not thus about a wood of words to shew your contentious spirit or at least to hide your hatefull mysteries Here you haue shewed you trust that it followeth well seeing the wrath that Christ felt in his spirit was right and proper wrath You haue shewed vs what you intend but neither here nor else where doe you shew by what grounds of reason and trueth you can inferre it Christ suffered proper wrath and that in spirit you say You neuer went about to define or describe what proper wrath is much lesse haue you any way prooued that which Christ suffered to be proper wrath And now on the sudden you bend vp your bristles and boast you haue shewed that Christ suffered the true paines of hell But by what Scriptures I pray you haue you shewed it or by what Fathers Or if you haue neither of those to deriue your doctrine from what groundes of reason haue you produced for it You haue roued ignorantly confusedly and absurdly at the sufferings of mans soule you haue filled our eares with certaine new phrases of proper verie and right wrath and vengeance for sinne but first and last you haue proued nothing nay I see not so much as any offer of proofe but a bolde proiect of trifles and termes to support your errors But I grant expresly that the wrath of God is hell Hauing shewed by sundrie Fathers the verie page before that the wrath of God is often taken for the effects thereof and so for any punishment which God inflicteth for sinne I granted that hell and all the â—…orments there mightiustly be called the wrath of God because they are t the sharpest effects of Gods wrath against sinne What conclude you thence ergo euerie effect or degree of Gods wrath is hell If you clamper vs such conclusions you are fitter to ring a bell than to write a booke What shew of reason hath this illation of yours The wrath of God is applied to all the paines and punishments of sinne and so by consequent to hell as to the greatest vengeance that God taketh of men or diuels for sinne Will you hence inferre hell is the greatest punishment of sinne ergo hell is all the punishment that God inflicteth for sinne or whatsoeuer God inflicteth for sinne is hell By this Logike a rotten tooth a gowtie toe a broken head or a lame legge are the true paines of hell and all men liuing and dying are in the paines of hell But you will create vs
to cast in his face And though there be neuer so manie old and new writers that would leade you to the true senâ—…e of these words you leaue them all and will needs by wilfull abusing the Scriptures haue Christ to be sinfull and defiled hatefull and accursed euen to God for taking vpon him to purge vs from our sinnes I shewed you the iudgement of Austen and Ambrose in my conclusion for the right vnderstanding of these words but you satisfied with nothing saue with your owne sense pasâ—…e surly by them and the rest as multitudes of men and preferre the proud conceit you haue of your selfe before them all Yet for the Readers sake that he may settle his iudgement with trueth and sobrietie he shall see the consent of all ages and writers how Christ was made sinne for vs and how he condemned sinne in the flesh Origen that Christ was made the sacrifice for sinne and offered for the clensing of sinnes all the Scriptures witnesse touching this sacrifice of his flesh it is said he condemned sinne in the flesh as the same Apostle else where sayth he appeared in the later times to destroy sinne By this sacrifice then of his flesh which was offered for sinne he condemned sinne that is he chased sinne away and abolished it Cyrill Christ is therefore made according to the Scriptures a sacrifice for sinne For this cause we say he is called sinne at selfe for so Paul writeth Him that knew no sinne God the Father made sinne for vs. We doe not say that Christ was made a sinner God forbid but being iust yea Iustice it selfe the Father made him a sacrifice for the sinnes of this world Ierom the Father made Christ who knew not sinne to be sinne for vs that is as the sacrifice offered for sinne is called sinne in the Law In Leuiticus it is written He shall lay his hand on the head of his sinne So Christ being offered for our sinnes tooke the name of sinne Augustine Christ then did no sinne but God made him sinne for vs that is as I haue said a sacrifice for sinne For if thou remember or wilt reade thou shalt finde in the bookes of the old Testament the sacrifice for sinne to be called sinne Againe God then made Christ sinne for vs that is a sacrifice by which our sinnes should be remitted because sacrifices for sinne are called sinne And so in the questions vpon Numbers It is said he shall offer a Lambe for a sinne because that which was offered for sinne was called sinne Whence it is that the Apostle saith of the Lord Christ him that knew no sinne God the Father made sinne for vs that is a sacrifice for sinne He that will see this more at large repeated and confirmed let him read at his leasure Saint Austen 120. Epistle cap. 30. the third booke and 6. Chapter against the two Epistles of the Pelagians his Enchiridion cap. 41. besides the seuenth Sermon De verbis Apostoli and the 48. Sermon De verbis Domini secundum Ioannem which I formerly alleaged Oecumenius the sacrifice which is offered for sinne is called sinne as the Prophet saith they eate the sinnes of my people that is the sacrifices for sinne So the Father made the Sonne a sacrifice to be offered for sinnes Primasius likewise the sacrifice for sinne is in the Law called sinne though it did not sinne as it is written and he shall laie his hands on the head of his sinne So Christ being offered for our sinnes tooke the name of sinne Sedulius obserueth the same words Beda Our Redeemer was made sinne that we might be the righteousnesse of God in him How In the Law the sacrifices which were offered for sinne are called sinne When the offering was brought for sinne the Law sayth the Priests shall put their hands vpon the sinne that is vpon the sacrifice for sinne And what els was this but Christ the true sacrifice for sinne Behold by what sinne he condemned sinne by the sacrifice which he made for sinne euen thereby he condemned sinne To skip Haymo Lyra and others the eleuenth Councell of Toledo in the confession of their faith Christ in the forme of man which he assumed is according to the trueth of the Gospell beleeued to haue beene borne without sinne and to haue died without sinne who aloâ—… was made sinne for vs that is the sacrifice for our â—…innes The new writers beare euen with the old To omit Erasmus Bullinger Peter Martyr Musculus Gualter Vitus Theodorus and others who doe follow the same steps Aretius vpon these words God by sinne condemned sinne in the flesh that is saith he All our sinne in our flesh God condemned by or for sinne to wit by or for the Sacrifice appointed for sinne Now Christ is the Lambe of God which taketh away the sinne of the world this Lambe is called sin because in the Law the sacrifices are called the sinne for which they are offered Hence is it that Christ who knew no sinne was made sinne by his Father Beza in his notes on the New Testament and on those words Him that knew no sinne God made sinne sayth Paul calleth sinne in this latter place the sacrifice for sinne after a maner of speech proper to the Hebrewes with whom the word Ascham is so taken as Leuiticus 7. 2. Tremelius the publisher and interpreter of your Syriack Testament obserueth the like vpon the same place Him that knew no sinne he made sinne for you that is a sacrifice for sinne which euery where in the bible is called Chattath by which name sinne also is called The booke of Homilies authorised in this Realme holdeth so fast to this exposition that it setteth it downe in the Apostles name as the Apostles true meaning S. Paul likewise sayth God made him a sacrifice for our sinne which knew no sinne that we should be made the righteousnesse of God in him The Apostle farder sayth the second time Christ shall appeare without sinne meaning that the first time he appeared with sinne Put the Apostles words vttered in the same place touching Christes first appearing with sinne to these which you cite and the sense is plaine and easie of it selfe In the end of the world Christ appeared once to put away sinne by the sacrifice of himselfe and vnto them that looke for him he shall appeare the second time without sinne vnto saluation Christes first appearing was with sinne that is either with an offering for sinne or with the infirmitie tentation miâ—…erie and mortalitie of sinne for such was the time of his humilitie when he came to purge sinne by the oblation of his bodie the next time of his appearing shall be in glorie that is without either sacrifice for sinne or any other infirmitie of sinners For sinne applied to Christ in the Scriptures may receiue a triple interpretation as Austen obserueth
the one after the other that S. Iohn confirmeth it with his owne i vers 35. sight lest so strange a thing should not be beleeued k Defenc. pag. 106. li. 35. Though it be against the common course of our nature for any paines or feare to sweate bloud yet the diuine power with and through paines and feares might wring out of his body that trickling bloudy sweate As it is plaine that it did by the wordes next before in the text an Angell came to giue him some comfort Your head was troubled about some waighty worke when one sentence wrang from you such contrarieties and falsities But the l Pag. 105. li. 38. Page before you tooke speciall exception against me if I did not thinke that Christ was vrged to his bloudy sweate for thereof you speake in that place by violence of paines or feare procuring it in him NATVRALLY here you say it is against the common course of our nature for any paines or feare to sweat bloud Could it be naturally procured in Christ and yet against the common course of our nature againe if it be against the common course of our nature for any paines or feare to sweate bloud by what reason or authority doe you conclude hell paines out of Christes bloudy sweate for if no paines or feare can by the course of our nature procure a bloudy sweate how know you that Christ did sweate bloud for paines or for feare for hell paines you will say he might Not by any course of our nature For then all his members which at one time or other feele the like which Christ felt should sweate bloud as Christ did But that I trust is sensiblely false The diuine power might wring it out of his body So it may raise Children to Abraham out of stones Doth that inferre that men are made of stones and might not the diuine power wring this sweate for that is your phrase out of Christes bodie as well without hell paines as with them is it hard for God to make a man sweat bloud without the paines of the damned It is plaine that it did by the words next before in the text Doth the text name hell paines or the feare of hell what will you not aduenture that thus presume to outface the Scriptures the text nameth many thinges before and you like your crafts-master will make your choise though the Scripture doe not expresse what was the cause thereof The words next before the text are an Angell came to giue him comfort Then comfort belike cast him into this bloudy sweate if the wordes next before declare the cause thereof which were very strange that a man by comfort should be cast into a bloudy sweate Why may not I rather say that the vision of an Angell put him rather into this sweate then the comfort which was brought him since Daniel was m Dan. 8. v. 27. stroken sicke and astonished with a vision as diuers others of Gods saints haue beene yet I thinke neither of these to be the cause of that sweate but as I say in my Sermons it might be voluntary either for signification as Austen Prosper Bede and Bernard do thinke or for sanctification and consecration of his person and sacrifice answeareable to the manner of the legall oblation prefiguring this as the trueth or for vehement contention of spirit in praier which indeed is the next thing mentioned before his sweate and shewed his desire and zeale to be more then humane for the Redeeming and reconciling of man to God by the shedding of his bloud n Defenc. pag. 106. li. 27. You conclude that Christes agony demonstrating Christs Priesthood must not rise from the terror of his owne death and yet a little before you openly confesse and graunt that his agony did rise from the feare of his death The effect of Christes Priest-hood performed in the garden must in no wise concerne himselfe For he was not a Priest to make intercession or to offer sacrifice for himselfe but for vs. And therefore his praiers then vttered in his agonie with strong cries and teares if they pertained to his Priesthood they were made for vs and not for himselfe and declared his voluntarie profering and presenting his body and bloud to Gods pleasure to be the sacrifice for mans Redemption and his feruent supplications to haue it accepted as the full Ransome for his elect that the accuser and supplanter of his Church might be remooued from Gods presence and wholy subiected vnder Christes feete Now if this desire and offer for vs must not only be voluntarie but inflamed with wonderfull vehemencie then would not Christ sweat bloud for any terror of his owne death but for his infinite feruency to preuaile and obtaine his petition for vs. You permix Christes feare and his feruent zeale together and call the whole action his agonie though it containe both feare conceaued at first when he approched Gods presence in iudgement for sinne and comfort receaued at last by message brought from Heauen and out of this confusion you collect what you list and say what you please to no purpose That Christ might haue a naturall feare of death I then said and yet see no cause to recall it but that I said Christ did sweate bloud for feare of his bodily death this is one of your painted faces with which you would outface the trueth Howbeit this persisting in your ignorant folly without remembring or regarding what is said on the other side argueth ridiculous negligence or malitious diligence of which because I haue already spoken I will say no more o Defenc. pag. 106. li. 33. Why should Hilarie deny that Christes bloudy sweat came of infirmity or Austen that Christes feare and perturbation was of infirmity Because they had learned iudgments and sober considerations in these matters which you want They beheld Christes power which no force of hell or Satan could impeach but where and when himselfe would permit They saw the innocencie and integrity of Christes humane nature which could not be tossed nor troubled with inward affections but when and how farre he was content to admit them They knew the infinite loue of God to his son for whose sake we were all beloued and adopted and that the father was so farre from tormenting the soule of his sonne with his immediate hand that p Iohn 17. he gaue him power ouer all flesh and q Iohn 13. gaue all things into his hands euen before his death and against the time of his agony in the garden Wherefore as the r Iohn 14. Prince of this world had nought in him and for that cause neither sinne nor corruption were found in him and s Iohn 10. no man tooke his soule from him but he laid it downe of himselfe so neither necessity nor infirmitie of our nature could oppresse or possesse him but he must first giue place to it by his will and guide it by
power that in all as well sufferings as doings he might be obedient and yet righteous And had they heard such a ghest as you are tell them a tale of Gods t Defenc. pag. 106. li. 38. diuine power wringing out of Christes body a bloudy sweat they would haue rung you another manner of Peale For what is wringing but violent forcing and what is violence but inuoluntary constraint which is any thing rather then obedience and so where the Apostle professeth of Christ that he was obedient euen vnto death you haue spied out that Christes bloudy sweat was WRVNG from him and so no part of his willing and free submission and obedience vnto God u Defenc. pag. 107. li. 12. Where they say Nec infirmitas quod potestas gessit that prooueth the cleane contrarie for ideo infirmitas quia potestas gessit For the working of his power in him argueth the suffering of his infirmity The power of God is perfited in infirmity If you would ascribe neither Religion nor learning to two such Pillars of Christes Church as Hilarie and Austen were you should at least leaue them common in sight and vnderstanding of their owne wordes It is enough for a man of your sise to lacke learning trueth and sense They were very learned and wise or els the whole Church that hath hitherto esteemed and receaued them for such was much deceaued But you that haue found a new faith in the Scriptures no maruaile if you catch the fathers with contrarieties which others neuer drempt of The ground of their wordes is the cleare rule of reason nature and trueth confirmed in heauen earth and hell that contraries in one and the same subiect time and respect doe exclude one another As if any thing be cold it is not hoate if it be drie it is not moist if it be straight it is not crooked and so if it be weake it is not strong Hence they conclude if there could be in Christ no compulsion to feare and sorow then was there election if no necessity then liberty and consequently if no preualence of corruption against his fullnesse of trueth and grace then it was not infirmity that subiected him to these violent and painfull affections but it was his will and power that raised and restrained them in him selfe Against this what saith our master of new maximes nay it was therefore infirmitie because power did it This indeed crosteth their sayings but withall it crosseth all trueth if you take their wordes as they spake them But you meane as your marginer noteth therefore there was infirmity because x Defenc pag. 107. ad marginem li. 3. there was power He can neuer shoot amisse that neuer offreth to any marke Where was there infirmity where was there power in the person of Christ belike Hilary and Austen did not know that Christ was God and man and had in his person both the infinite power of God and the voluntarie weaknesse of man that being compared with his Godhead might well be called infirmity as the Apostle saiâ—…th Christ was crucisied concerning his infirmity that is in the weaknesse of his flesh but yet that voluntary weaknesse of God or in God the sonne was stronger then all the power of men or of Diuels whom his manhood spoiled and caried captiues with an open triumphe This is not their meaning to say that Christ had no infirme part in his person compared with his diuine power that is no manhood but only his Godhead and therefore your reply to that purpose is as senselesse as it is needlesse Where Christes diuine power did punish there his humane infirmity did suffer This is your wresting of their wordes against their meaning to bring them to your compasse but this is no part of their speech That weaknesse is patient where power is agent this may be but what is that to their words which are very true without your punishing power Hilarie sayth y Hilar. de Trinitate li. 10. To sweat bloud is against nature and so not a weaknesse in nature Since then it was aboue nature to sweat bloud he ascribeth it to Christes will and power performing that in his bodie which nature could not do z Ibidem Quis rogo furor est repudiata doctrinae Apostolicae fide mutare sensum religionis totum hoc ad imbecillitatem contumeliam rapere naturae quod volunt as est sacramentum quod potest as est siducia triumphus What madnesse is this here you Sir Defender how he requiteth you for peruerting the trueth of his words by refusing the faith of the Apostles doctrine to change the sense of religion and to impute all that to the imbccillitie and contumelie of Christes nature which was his will and a mysterie yea power considence and victory And againe lest you should thinke he wanted reason for his speech a Ibidem Quarogo side naturaliter infirmus fuisse defenditur cui naturale fuit omnem human arum infirmitatum inhibere naturam Forte stulta atque impia peruersitate hinc infirmae in â—…o naturae presumitur assertio quia trist is sit anima eius vsque ad mortem With what faith I aske is Christ assirmed to be naturally weake to whom it was naturall to heale all mans infirmities Happely by a foolish and wicked peeuishnesse he is therefore presumed to be of a weake nature because his soule was sorrowfull vnto death This ground of his speech is short but sure except you will deride Christ and say b Luke 4. Physician heale thy selfe or blaspheme him with the Pharises and say as they sayd c Matth. 27. He saued others he can not saue himselfe It was then in Christ not want of power to represse these passions or repell these infirmities that subiected himselfe vnto them it was his owne willing obedience that would taste them and power that did guide them lest they should breake into the distemper and excesse of our corrupt nature The power of God you say is perfected in infirmitie Those words I trust were not spoken of Christ and howsoeuer in some sort they may be verified of Christ yet is there no comparison betwixt our naturall infirmitie and his fulnesse of trueth and grace d Esa. 11. The spirit of counsell and trueth rested on him e Iohn 3. without measure wee wholly want it till Gods power in some degree confirme our infirmitie Againe infirmitie in these words doth signifie outward afflictions and miseries for so the Apostle there expoundeth it f 2. Cotin 12. vers 10. Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities in reproches in necessities in persecutions for when I am outwardly weake then I am inwardly strong So that those words can not rightly be referred to inward infirmitie and might they yet Christes gifts and graces of the Holy Ghost were not only farre aboue Pauls but in the greatest degree that any creature might haue them and
on him sundry waies and that directly from Gods proper wrath for our sinnes he felt his whole humane Nature for the time left all comfortlesse and alone without any ioyous assistance of his Deitie Doe you enforce all this from the word for saking or would you adde it to those words which Christ spake either way your ignorance or impudence is cleare and manifest For if you dare adde so many circumstances of so great importance to those words you are not a tolerable expounder but a notable peruerter of Christs words If you would conclude so much from the word you shew your selfe most ridiculous against all the rules of Diuine Doctrine and humane sense to deduce all those sequels from that one word For neither infinite paines nor from Gods proper wrath nor in Christs whole humane Nature nor all comfortlesse are necessarie consequents to that word and yet graunt all these so farre as any truth or experience conuinceth them to be felt in this life they no way amount to the second death or to the true paines of the damned which is the thing you should and would inferre from this complaint r Defenc. pag. 108. li. 7. I meane his Godhead as it were withdrawing and hiding it selfe from him for that season of his Passion gaue him no sense nor feeling of ease comfort or ioy Your owne mouth testifieth against you that you doe not expound but corrupt the Scriptures to serue your conceits Begin with the last Doth not the Apostle in plaine words say that Christ s Heb. 12. for the ioy set before him endured the Crosse Who could set any ioy before him in that case but God alone then apparantly did his Godhead set before him assurance of ioy and that euerlasting in the highest degree which was so great that it led him with patience to endure the Crosse. He had no present feeling thereof you will say So you must say or else in exact words you shew your selfe to contradict the spirit of God But if God did propose it and Christ did most certainly know it and expect it had faith and hope in him no present sense nor feeling had not Christ farre certainer and fuller knowledge and sight of Gods presence fauour and promises then any faith or hope in vs can haue t Rom. 5. If then we reioyce vnder the hope of glory did not he did not he know that he u Luke 24. was to suffer those things and so to enter into his glory when he called them fooles and slow of hart that beleeued not all that the Prophets haue spoken by the spirit x 1. Peter 1. forewitnessing the sufferings of Christ and the glory that should follow Did the spirit of God by Dauid beare false witnesse when he said of Christ and in Christs person I y Acts 2. beheld the Lord alwaies before me at my right hand that I should not be shaken therefore did mine hart reioyce and my toong was glad and my flesh shall rest in hope Ease from paine he felt none ne would he feele till by death he determined his sufferings but comfort in his afflictions he could not want because he was not onely patient and obedient to the will of God and so not void of comfort when he had done the will of God to receiue his promises but euen in the midst of his sharpest paines he saw the counsell of God for his glorification and our redemption and beheld God as his Father most highly pleased with him though iustly displeased with our sinnes the smart whereof he must feele in his flesh That therefore Christes whole humane Nature on the Crosse was all comfortlesse and alone is false doctrine and repugnant not onely to the words of Dauid that Christ z Psal. 16. beheld God alwaies at his right hand that he should not be mooued but euen to the manifest assertion of Christ himselfe who said to his Disciples a Iohn 16. the houre is come that you shall be scattered and leaue me alone but I am not alone for the Father is with me Now if God were alwaies present with Christ that he should not be shaken God was alwaies well pleased with him Yea God was ioyned to him not ingrace alone as he is with vs but in nature and person as he is with no man else nor Angel If then we haue comfort from Gods grace and spirit in our afflictions how much more did consolations abound in Christ euen as sufferings did for since God is b 2. Cor. 1. the God of all comfort who comforteth vs in all our troubles that as the sufferings of Christ abound in vs so our consolation should abound through Christ how is it possible Christ should comfort vs if he were himselfe all comfortlesse in his paines shall we deriue that from him which he had not or rather is it impietie so much as to thinke that any inward comfort wanted vnto Christ who was personally vnited to God and on whom the c Esa. 11. Spirit of God rested that is alwaies continued with all fulnesse of grace and truth c Esa. 11. euen the spirit of wisedome and vnder standing the spirit of counsell and strength the spirit of knowledge and of the feare of the Lord If this spirit neuer departed from him he could want neither peace nor ioy in the holy Ghost and so no comfort incident to mans nature afflicted as he then was and would be yea that was the least degree of his comfort which was common to him with vs who yet deriue all our comfort from him he had the nearest surest highest and plentifullest spring of comfort in his owne person that any creature was capable of To make therefore his whole manhood all comfortlesse without any inward peace or ioy from Gods spirit is a detestable doctrine subuerting the communion of both Natures in Christ and so dissoluing the vnion of his person if neither part of his humane nature had any sense or feeling of his Godhead d Defenc. pag. 108. li. 5. I say not he wanted now all assistance of his deitie If he wanted peace and comfort in the holy Ghost if he had no longer any certaine knowledge nor vnderstanding of his fathers will and if he felt inwardly in his humane soule no perswasion apprehension nor expectation of his fathers presence fauour and promises tell me what assistance he had of his Godhead when all these things failed in him ioious assistance Christ found no ioy in his pâ—…ine but comfort in his hope he had none Is it fit for such a wrangler as you are first to dishonour the sufferings of Christ with the leauen of your fansies and then to sprinkle them with the holy water of your Phrases how often hath it beene told you that for obedience to the will of his father the sonne of God would vse no power to repell his paines nor to diminish his sense thereof but only
patience whereby we might be assured that he felt his afflictions on the Crosse with quicker sense and greater paines then we are able with any patience to endure And is this all that now you would say that Christ found no ioy in his paines what Cow-keeper doth not know that paine is paine and not ioy but was Christes paine such that it excluded his soule from the remembrance or sense of all Gods graces so richly powred on him and promises so faithfully made vnto him you were best come in with your mooueable fittes of astonishment and tell vs that in one and the same sentence when Christ said My God my God he was in full and perfect assurance and assistance of Gods fauour whom els he could not call his God if he felt no comfort in him that is the God of all comfort and when he pronounced the next syllable why he presently fell into a sudden pangue where he was forsaken and left all comfortlesse and alone according to your deuices And if any man be so wise to let you lead him through such thornes as to graunt in Christ on the Crosse sometimes hope of glorie and sometimes feare of confusion sometimes comfort and suddainly distrust of his saluation sometimes Gods fauour and full assistance as in affliction and by and by the second death and the paines of the damned he may dally with faith and infidelity with heauen and hell with Christ and Beliall as you doe But if it were not possible for Christ crucified being the wisdome and power of God to be tossed and tumbled with such contrarie blasts then hath the forsaking which he complained of an other manner of sense then you imagine And whatsoeuer meaning you ascribe vnto it you may not with a word that admitteth diuers interpretations impugne the plaine and open wordes and deeds of our Sauiour in which is no question As when the high Priest asked him e Mar. 14. art thou Christ the sonne of the blessed Iesus said I am and ye shall see the sonne of man sit at the right hand of power and come in the cloudes of heauen And when the Theefe that was crucified with him said vnto him f Luc. 22. Lord remember me when thou comest into thy kingdome he answeared Verily I say vnto thee to day shalt thou be with me in Paradise As also breathing out his soule he said g Ibidem Father into thine hands I commend my spirit If to be the sonne of God and to sit at Gods right hand in glory if to dispose of Paradise at his pleasure and to commit his spirit into his Fathers hands be no signes nor proofes of comfort and ioy then let your exposition beare some shew but if these be more then arguments of most excellent honour and glory not onely reserued for him and confirmed vnto him but assumed and professed by him euen when he was condemned and crucified who that had any care of trueth or respect to reason would auouche that Christs h Defenc. pag. 108. li 9. godhead gaue him for that season of his passion no sense nor feeling of comfort and ioy neither in spirit soule nor body i Defenc. pag. 108. li. 16. This was that extreame humiliation and exinâ—…nition of nature wherein God spared not his sonne and wherein Christ spared not himselfe If you may sit iudge not only ouer Prophets and Apostles but ouer Christ himselfe you will soone appoint him to suffer what pleaseth you but when you come to make proofe thereof you betray the violence of your spirits that must haue all thinges giue way to your wills and the weakenesse of your iudgements that discerne not humility from infidelity nor religious patience from hellish astonishment k Philip. 2. Exinanition and humiliation the Apostle nameth in Christ but either voluntary and either in comparison of his diuine glory and maiesty wherein being equall with his father he tooke on him the forme of a seruant and Christ emptied himselfe of glory not of gracâ—… humbled himselfe becomming obedient to the death of the crosse The Apostle neither saith nor meaneth that Christ emptied himselfe of all grace or comfort in his whole humane nature but laid aside the vse and shew of his diuine power and honour whiles for loue to vs he performed the worke of our redemption in the shape of a seruant and became obedient vnto the death of the crosse which was painefull and shamefull but not astonished with the paines of the damned nor subiected to the second death This is your yarne which you would faine weaue into the Apostles words but truth and falshood haue no fellowship no more haue your dreames and the Apostles doctrine As much it maketh for you that God spared not his owne sonne but gaue him for vs all whence you may as well conclude that God adiudged his sonne to euerlasting destruction and damnation for that were indeed not to spare him as that he inflicted on him the true paines of hell least he should seeme to spare him The Apostles wordes expound themselues God spared not his sonne but gaue him for vs This giuing him into the hands of sinners for our sakes was Gods not sparing him otherwise that God spared him in nothing which either his power was able to impose or our sinnes did deserue this is doctrine for him that meaneth to be an Apostata from all faith and trueth to set the father at as great enmity with his sonne as our sinnes did deserue or could prouoke The higth of Christs not sparing himselfe was as the Apostle teacheth his obedience vnto the death of the Crosse if you will haue Christs obedience stretch to the second death of the damned you must get you some new Scriptures these that are already written witnesse no such thing How beâ—…t you will lacke no Scripture For rather then you will acknowledge your want in that behalfe you will make euery Chapter throughout the Bible to speake of your dreames For euen * 〈◊〉 pag. 〈◊〉 heere you quote Deutero 10 17 and Luc 16 17 in the first of which places the Scripture saith l Deut. 10. 17. The Lord your God is God of Gods and Lord of Lords a great God mightie and terrible which accepteth no persons nor taketh rewards What is this to Christes sufferings or to the paines of the damned was it after noone or after midnight when you quoted these places you knew not why nor wherefore So play you with Luc 16 17. where it is said m Luc. 16. 17. It is more easie that heauen and earth should passe away then that one tittle of the Law should fall Will you hence inferre which is the thing that you should prooue ergo Christ was forsaken of all outward and inward comfort and ioy besides you no man hath the grace to make such faire and cleare demonstrations of your doctrine n Defenc pag. 108. li. 21. This forsaking or
Creed how we were saued and what is the price of our Redemption specially the Scriptures going so cleare with them and they teaching so closely and soundly the trueth there expressed d Defenc. pag. 110. li. 9. These very sentences of the fathers I can easily admit if they import no more then that those outward afflictions on the Crosse were SOME CAVSES AND THAT NO SMAL of his complaint alwaies remembring that some greater cause also did concurre and was conioined with them Then by your owne confession haue the fathers spoken trueth and there was small or no cause giuen you to make so light regard of them As for your other greater cause when you prooue by Scripture as you intend that Christs soule on the crosse suffered the second death and the paines of the damned you shall haue a speciall reseruation that your fansies may be conioined with Christs praiers otherwise your reasons be like your resolutions they haue neither proofe nor strength besides your owne priuate and presumptuous perswasions e Defenc. pag. 110. li. 14. Your third sense if I conceiue it aright is that his being left to bodily death caused him thus to mourne which is but as the last before And yet you seeme to meane not only that but also because his flesh now should want all feeling of his heauenly comfort for that while that it should remaine dead A maruailous exquisite and farre fet cause The sense is neither mine nor so farre fet as you would make it I tooke it out of Tertullian Hilarie and The third sense of Christs complaint on the crosse Epiphanius whose wordes I produced to that purpose and howsoeuer you gibe at it after your scornefull maner I suppose it will prooue sounder then your hellish death which you haue so learnedly deuised out of their words The difference betwixt this and the former sense is not great For there the fathers ment Christ was forsaken that is not deliuered from the rage of his persecutors whiles he liued and these doe adde that he was left vnto death presuming death to be the greatest and most grieuous of all outward afflictions which in this life befall the nature of man f Defenc. pag. 110. li. 19. Yet me thinks as this crosseth your other expositions here so it is flat contrarie to the Scripture also If the expositions were contrary each to other so long as they be sundrie mens and repeated onely by me to shew how many senses haue beene deliuered in the Church of Christ by learned and auncient Fathers touching that complaint or praier of Christ which you would faine abuse to hatch your hell-paines what els note you by their contratiety but the diuersity of mens iudgements vpon these words all which conioined in this against you that Christes complaint on the crosse may diuersly be conceaued according to the different acceptions of forsaking and yet your paines of the damned haue no place in that variety or contrariety of â—…enses But this third sense you say is flat contrarie to the Scripture That were worth the hearing indeed if your foolish conceits were not farre more likely to crosse both themselues the Scriptures then iustly to controle the iudgements of so learned fathers But what is this great ouersight that is so much repugnant to the Scripture the Scripture g Ibid. li. 21. giueth after a sort to Christes dead flesh this LIVELY AFFECTION my flesh shall rest in hope The soule of Christ which was replenished with life trueth and grace as being personally vnited vnto God and of whose fullnesse we all haue receaued you affirme died on the Crosse and none other death then the second death and Christs flesh lying dead in the graue you imagine not only to haue life but to be a liuing spirit For you giue vnto it the liuely affection of hope which nothing hath that is not a liuing and reasonable soule or more You doe it you will say but after a sort That sort is absurd inough of figuratiue speaches in the Scriptures to make positiue doctrines For if you defend that the dead flesh of Christ in the graue had indeed any liuely affection of hope in part or in whole it is a brutish heresie denying that Christ was truely dead and that his body was truely flesh since a liuely hope impoâ—…teth not only life but vnderstanding and faith If you graunt these speaches to be figuratiue then doe you betray your folly to thwart the fathers assertions with figuratiue florishes as if they were proper and to pronounce their sayings flat contrary to the Scriptures because you can pike out a word that in outward shew soundeth somewhat strangely Hope in these wordes of Dauid is either applied to the soule of Christ in respect of the resurrection of his body which he beleeued and hoped for as most assured or if we apply it to the body it noteth safety from corruption and promise made by God of speedie resurrection which was the thing wherewith Christs bodie might be inuested But we shall haue mainer proofe for this matter h Defenc. pag. 110. li. 24. Is it likely is it possible that he should so dolefully mourne that either he should bodily dy or that his body should want the sense of his diuine presence so little a while when as in HIS MINDHE SPEAKETH SO TRIVMPHANTLY of his CONSTANT and CONTINVALLIOY IN GOD yea not excluding euen his body though dead from participating in some sort therein as we read in the former place at large I i Act 2. 26 27. BEHEID the Lord alwaies The Defender 〈◊〉 contradicteth his owne doctrine before me for he is at my right hand that I should not bâ—… shaken Therefore did mine heart reioice and my tongue was glad and moreouer my flesh shall rest in hope Now can a man in this EXCEEDING GENERALL and CONSTANTIOY so vncomfortably mourne in that sense as you vrge My God my God why forsakest thou my flesh it cannot be I would not thinke it likely nor possible if I did not see it before mine eies that such a pert Proctour should so proudly despise all auncient writers and fathers that fauour not his faction and yet so palpably confound himselfe and his whole cause with ouermuch prating For Christian Reader I pray thee take no more but his owne confession or assertion in this place by which he thought to ouerbeare all that stood in his way and obserue both how desperatly he contradicteth himselfe and how sensibly he subuerteth his whole doctrine and his deuice of this new found hell But the lease before he told vs peremptorily that k Pa. 108. li. 8. Christes Godhead as it were withdrawing and hiding it selfe from him for that season of his passion gaue him NO SENSE NOR FEELING OF COMFORT OR IOY in spirit soule or body Now suddainly whiles he eagerly hunteth after his hell paines he not onely falleth ouer head and eares into the myre of contradictions
but he clearely confesseth before hand that all which himselfe will say touching the second death of Christes soule on the crosse is apparantly false doctrine and euidently repugnant to the sacred Scriptures Thou wilt maruaile much at this and so doe I but that Liars are often so earnest to serue their turnes and not the trueth that they forget their former tales whiles they inuent newer As here for example He that would before allow to Christ on the crosse NO SENSE NOR FEELING OF COMFORT OR IOY in spirit soule or body Now vrgeth to promote another purpose Christs EXCEEDING GENERALL AND CONSTANT IOY euen at the same time when he spake these wordes My God my God why hast thou forsaken me and not content with this he addeth that Christ euen then IN HIS MIND SPAKE TRIVMPHANTLY OF HIS CONSTANT and CONTINVALL IOY in GOD and prooueth it by the words of the holy Ghost where Dauid being a Prophet spake concerning Christ on the Crosse that he l Acts 2. beheld the Lord alwaies before him at his right hand that he should not be shaken And therefore did Christs hart reioyce and his tongue was glad Vnderstand you sit faith-maker the difference or repugnance betweene NO SENSE NOR FEELING OF COMFORTOR IOY in spirit soule or body A most shamefull contradiction and EXCEEDING GENERALL CONSTANT and TRIVMPHANT IOY in GOD in the mind of Christ can you read this and not thinke you reele as your reasons doe to and fro can you salue this sore without sweating or make vp this breach without blushing and I pray you since the ground of these wordes is true in that it is the holy Ghosts and you may not flie from your owne inference which you presse so violently against the fathers to beate downe their exposition how could Christs Soule on the crosse IN THIS EXCEEDING GENERALL CONTINVALL CONSTANT and TRIVMPHANT IOY OF MIND suffer also the paines of the damned and the second death wherein IS NO SENSE NOR FEELING OF ANY COMFORT OR IOY IN body soule or spirit Can you hang these gymmoes together that the one shall not crie shamefull and intolerable falsehood against the other the best excuse that I can make for your to saue you from ebriety or frensie is that these things were posted ouer to you from diuers that saw not each others fansies and so without due perusing or remembring where they crossed ech other you patched their papers together with more hast then good speed How beit surely I take it to be a iust iudgement of God when you are diuided from the trueth to diuide either your tongues from your harts or your harts from themselues that all men may learne to take heed how they dally with the Christian faith or delude the Scriptures I thanke God I hate you not so much but for your owne sake I could wish you had beene silenter or circumspecter And see how euill you lucke or at least your cause is For heere haue you spoken enough to confute all that you formerly haue said and afterward will say and yet you haue brought nothing to infringe that which I said For a naturall seare and mislike of death as also griefe and sharpnesse of paine in the body may well stand with a continuall and constant comfort in God yea where grace is present and preuaileth the m 2 Cor. 4. perishing of the outward man bringeth the renewing of the inward man and bitter affliction maketh vs seeke after God and call vpon him the more earnestly for his assistance in which case it is most true that Gods n 2. Cor. 12. power is perfected in our infirmity For when I am weake saith the Apostle in body then I am strong in spirit And if Paul could o 2. Cor. 12. delight in reproches persecutions and anguishes for Christes sake and yet feele the smart of them could not Christ retaine comfort in his afflictions though his flesh were pressed with extreame paine Many thinges more may be strongly alleaged against this opinion With such strength as you haue already shewed whereneither words nor matter shall hang together p Defenc. pag. 110 li. 37. As first that seeing he perfectly knew that as his flesh should now quietly rest so his soule should enioy perfect glory and comfort more then before it did That doth not quench the detestation Was there no comfort in all this which mans nature hath of death euen by Gods ordinance though it comfort and courage the soule in hope of future blisse to indure the paine and horrour of death S. Austen saith q August epistola 120. Nemo vnquam carnem suam odio habuit et praeterea non vult anima vel ad tempus abeius etiam insirmitate descedere quamuis 〈◊〉 se sine infirmitate in aeternum recepturamesse confidat Tantam habet vim carnis animae dulce consortium No man euer hated his owne flesh and therefore the soule is not willing to depart euen from the weakenesse of the body for a time though she beleeue that she shall receiue her flesh againe for euer without infirmity Of so great 〈◊〉 is the sweet 〈◊〉 betwixt the soule and the body And so againe r 〈◊〉 tract in 〈◊〉 123. This affection of mans weakenesse whereby no man is willing to die is so naturall that age could not take it from blessed Peter to whom it was said by Christ when 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 old thou shalt be led whither thou wouldest not And to comfort us our 〈◊〉 himselfe assumed and shewed this affection in himselfe when he said Father if it be possible let this cup passe from me So that these respects made Christ the more comfortable in death but by no meanes did vtterly quench the naturall dislike that Christes manhood had and lawfully might haue of death knowing it to be the punishment of sinne and dissolution of our creation though by Gods goodnesse it be now made a passâ—…ge in his to a better life Your next reason is of the same stamp The resurrection of the body maketh no man willing to die if he could with Gods liking decline death but obedience ouerruleth the naturall instinct that God hath impressed in vs to abhorre death And where you take it for a mighty'pillar in your building that Christ s Pa. 111. li. 6. would not so extreamly mourne and complaine only for this cause as my fansie importeth you build but on sand which will haue the greater fall For I shew you many more causes and senses of those words then this only all which you kindly skippe and pretend this only which I neuer professed calling it my fansie that I cited out of auncient and reuerend writers t Defenc. pag. 111. li. 8 Further he knew perfectly that this was the very appointment of God for the obtaining of his most desired purchase of our health for the more aduancing of Gods glorie and for the aduancing of his very manhood Finally it was
that Christ did attend his praiers is most euident For he both added a condition to them and presently declared what he ment by that condition to witte that he desired the bitternesse of this cup to passe as much as Gods gratious will towards him should like and not as the sense of mans nature in him would affect So that here is nothing in Christes praier arguing any forgetfulnesse or not remembring but an euident confirmation rather of that which you would so faine denie or auoid if you could tell how that Christ did religiously and carefully conuert his cogitations in his praiers both to deprecate his Fathers wrath as farre as might be and yet to giue full assent to his Fathers wil. And therefore the difference which Origen Ierom Bede and others make betwâ—…ene the beginning and continuing of these affections of feare and sorow in Christ howsoeuer with a false shew you impugne it hath better ground in it then any thing you say against it i Defenc. pag. 124. li. 8. Natures verie instinct is in such dolours to wish and desire ease and the more vehemently it is pinched the more earnâ—…stly it desireth and this is Gods owne gift and workemanship in nature and simply thus to desire is in this respect truely to be reckned Gods owne expresse will Haue you now found that Christ did not manifestly in plaine words pray contrary to his Fathers knowen will But that expressing the sense of mans nature in himselfe as touching the paines which should assault him on the Crosse he desired that cup that is the sharpnesse of that paine might passe as much as was possible to stand with Gods good pleasure And yet least he should seeme in nature more to respect his owne â—…inart then his Fathers will he presently declareth himselfe that he ment no farder to be eased then might stand with Gods counsell and will foredetermining these thinges So that without your hell paines then inflicted on Christes soule by Gods immediate hand and without your confused and forgetfull astonishment the praiers of our Sauiour in the Garden did both answeare Gods ordinance in the frame of our flesh which is not brasse as Iob speaketh and yet preferre the will of God for the conseruation of his iustice before the liking of his sense or desire of his nature Which if you acknowledge then are your assertions false and wicked that Christ in plaine wordes praied contrary to Gods knowen will and this could not haue wanted sinne had he not been astonished when he so praied For the praiers are facred and sound without any maze or obliuion of his Fathers will and his owne purpose but rather expressely remembring both and preferring that which indeed should be preferred when and as it ought k Defenc. pag. 124 li. 22. It was contrary in the outward wordes and in the particular affection of his mind now wanting this remembrance but it was fully and wholly according to Gods wilâ—… in the generall disposition of his mind and whole man You would faine vphold a contrariety to Gods will in the praiâ—…rs of Christ and though they be neither in trueth nor in sense repugnant to Gods will yet you say there is a repugnancy in the particular affection of his mind As appeareth by his adding Not my will but thy will be done Howbeit you heard before out of Zanchius a very learned and very sufficient Diuine l Zambius de triâ—…us Elâ—…him parte 2. li. 3. ca 9. Râ—…sponsio 2. Quare falsum omnino est in Christo diuersam voluntatem a Patris fuisse It is vtterly false that there was in Christ a will diuers from his Fathers will The naturall dislike that man hath of paine and death which is the rule of Gods creation Christ calleth his will because it was the weakenesse of mans flesh in him as he forewarned when he said The spirit is prompt but the flesh is weake to abide the paine and horror of death but this naturall affection when he had confessed to be in himselfe both to shew himselfe to be a true man and naturally affected as we are and also to foreshew that his death should be very painefull and greeuous vnto him he wholly and fully submitted it to his fathers will which indeed was his will and desire euen as he was man as well as his Fathers His owne wordes are m Luc. 22. Desiring I haue desired that is I haue earnestly desired to eat this Passâ—…ouer with you before I suffer And againe n Luc. 12. I must be baptised with a baptisme and how am I grieued till it be ended He desired the time and fâ—…uit of his death he might not desire death in it selfe because it was not only the dissolution of nature but the touch of Gods wrath against the sinne of man and therefore no way to be desired but in regard of consequent effects Neither was there any contrariety in the particular affection of Christs mind to Gods will as you auouch It is a dangerous deuice of yours to make Christes will agreeable to Gods in the generall disposition of his mind but repugnant in his particular affection which you would excuse with a greater error of Now wanting this remembrance But Gods will was as Christes was that Christ in his humane nature should haue an vtter dislike and horror of death which yet for the loue of man and obedience to God he should submit to that will of God whereby he would haue the punishment of our sinnes tedious and grâ—…euous to the Redeemer least it should seeme a sport to ransome vs from the wrath of God Both these wills were in God the Father and the sense of the one and the submission to the other in the humane nature of Christ so that in either part Christs will was conformable to the will of God though his naturall dislike of death and paine yeelded and submitted it selfe to the will of Gods iustice by which he required and exacted the punishment of our sinne in the manhood of Christ. o Defenc. paâ—… 124. li. 30 If you abhorre this â—…n me yet see what Chrysostom taught These wordes NOT AS I VVILL BVT AS THOV VVILT do signifie two willes saith he one of the Father another of the Sonne contrary one to the other Thinke you as Chrysostom doth and then you shall easily be suffered to speake as Chrysostom speaketh For as power and weakenesse are contrary so were the two wills in Christ declaring his two natures the one despising and conquering death which was his diuine will answeareable to his Fathers the other fearing shunning death which shewed him to be a true man As then Christ had two contrary natures yet knit and vnited in one person so had he two contrary wills touching death yet both agreeing and concurring in one end And so much Chrysostom would haue taught you if you had read on the very same place which you quote for your error p Johan
these and such like actions and passions with the bodie For the force to doe and since to feele is from the soule and so in the death of the bodie the soule is partaker with the bodie not to lie dead and senselesse as the bodie doth but to feele the paine of death and suffer the separation from the bodie 〈◊〉 the effects of death appeare in the bodie But that the soule doth die when the whole compound of bodie and soule dieth is no consequent neither in Philosophie nor Diuinitie z Defenc. pag. 137. li. 20. The text heere speaketh as I iudge of the whole and intire sufferings of Christ. The text heere speaketh of death bereauing life which was after re-â—…stored when Christes bodie was againe quickned by the power of his spirit the rest of Christes sufferings during the whole time of his life are not comprised in the name of death otherwise Peter must haue sayd Christ was alwayes dead since his affections 〈◊〉 with circumcision if not before which is no part of Peters speach nor meaning yea rather it is repugnant to both since Peter saith Christ a 1. Peter 3. suffered once fâ—…r sinnes when he was put to death and not euer and alwayes whiles he liued on â—…arth b Defenc pag. 137. li. 35. Against this obseruation what pretended you some Scriptures palpably abused first Matthew where Christ speaketh of his Disciples that their spirit their inward regenerate man was ready to watch bâ—…t their flesh their corrupt Nature was weake and sluggish 〈◊〉 is this to Christs flesh and spirit If my authoritie were as good as yours and my learning as great I could say as you doe I iudge it so but if I shew not better reason for me to aâ—…firme those wordes Christ ment of himselfe then you doe or can that he ment them not of himselfe I am content your consistorian seeming shall goe before my laborious proouing my vse is not to relie too much on mine owne iudgement as you doe though I thanke God I can examine both your and other mens interpretations but when I finde a thing maturely and rightly considered and concoâ—…ded by the learned and auncient Fathers in matters of faith or exposition of the Scriptures I goe not easily from them Tertullian saith c Tertullianus de suga in persecutione Christ himselfe professed his soule was 〈◊〉 vnto death his flesh weake that he might shew to thee there were in himselfe both the substaâ—…ces of man by the propertie of heauinesse in the soule and weakenesse in the flesh Athanasius likewise d Athanasius de Passione Cruâ—…e 〈◊〉 A little afore his death Christ cried the spirit was willing but the flesâ—… weakâ—… that our aduersarie the diuell encountring him as a man might feele his diuine power Theophilus Alexandrinus e 〈◊〉 epistola Paschali prima contra Appollinaristas If Christ tooke onely the flesh of man and not the soule of man why in his Passion did he say the spirit is prompt but the flesh weake Ambrose f Ambros. ls 4. in 〈◊〉 ca. 4. If Christes body had beene spirituall he would not haue said the spirit is prompt but the flesh is weake Heare the voice of either in Christ as well of weake flesh as of a readie spirit The auncient writer among the works of Saint Austen g De Salutaribus documentis ca. 64. The trueth it selfe our Lord Iesus Christ saith of himselfe the spirit is prompt but the flesh weake Cyrill h Cyrill Thesauri li. 10. ca. 3. Though Christ abhorred death as a man yet as a man he refused not to doe the will of his Father and his owne as God and therefore he said the spirit is prompt but the flesh is weake Vigilius i Vigilius contra 〈◊〉 li. 5. ca. 4. What is that wherein he suffered and tried weakenesse but mans nature whereof he said at the time of his passion the spirit is prompt but the flesh weake tasting of which infirmitie he learned to helpe the weake Seuerianus k Seuerianus contra Nonatum citatur a 〈◊〉 contra 〈◊〉 hem My soule saith Christ is he auic vnto death And interpreting to what his Passions pertained the spirit saith he is ready but the flesh weake Remigius l 〈◊〉 in 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 26. 〈◊〉 a Tho. 〈◊〉 in 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 In these words Christ sheweth that he tooke true flesh of the Virgine and that he had a true soule Wherefore he now saith that his spirit is ready to suffer but that his weake flesh feareth the paine of his Passion Euthymius m 〈◊〉 in 〈◊〉 My God my God said Christ why hast thou for saken me that is why hast thou left me in this feare knowing my spirit is ready but my flesh weake What thinke you had I no more reason to say as I saide then you haue to denie it where also you may note that all these learned Fathers refuse your lame obseruation as well as I doe and so you had neede seeke some better authoritie then your owne or perhaps some one that 〈◊〉 you with this rule seruing to none other end but to helpe forward your hell fansie n 〈◊〉 pag. 139. li. 1. Thinke you that Christs soule was willing to suffer as God had appointed but that his flesh resisted veâ—…ily so you seeme heere to vnderstand and it is as likely as your applying of flesh and spirit to Christ in your pag. 104. Put on your visard before you take in hand to controle the iudgement of so many Fathers Your pride is greater then your wit in this and most things that passe your pen. Is it such newes to you for me or for them to say that Christes flesh was weake that is not so ready to suffer as was his soule seeth your mastership no difference betwixt weakenesse and resistance specially when in comparison of the readinesse of the spirit the flesh is said to be weaker that is lesse ready to suffer then the soule doth not the Apostle applie the same word vnto Christ when he saith Christ was o 2. Cor. 13. crucified through weakenesse and long before the Prophet said of Christ p Esa. 53. He is a man full of sorrowes and one that hath experience in infirmites So that your cholor was kindled without cause when you strooke such an heat with my saying that Christs flesh was weake the Prophet foretold he should be a man full of sorrowes and well acquainted with infirmities The vntrue conceit which you challenge in the 104. Page of my Sermons touching Christes flesh where I sayd it must haue force to cleanse and quicken when you impugâ—…e I will defend in the meane time it may serue I savd nothing but what our Saâ—…iour sayd before me q Iob. 6. vers 56. 54. He that eateth my flesh and drinketh my bloud dwelleth in me and I in him he hath eternall life and I will raise him vp at the last
day If you could take any hold I doubt not the sharpenesse of your teeth but your foolish conceits are caried like clouds in the aire they rest not before they vanish r Defenc pag. 139. li. 5. Then Luke where both spirit and flesh are not intended of Christ as our obseruation requireth but only the flesh Your obseruation is made to fitte S. Peters words to your fansie For there are not many places in Scripture where spirit and flesh are expressed and intended of the two natures of Christ though in other places some words adioyned doe prooue him to be God as well as man In that of S. Luke Christ doth not denie himselfe to be a diuine spirit for then he were no God since God is a s Iohn 4. spirit nor to haue an humane spirit for then he were no man but that which they saw with their eies he affirmed was flesh and bloud and not any apparition in the shape of a man And the words following t Luke 24. as ye see me to haue containe and note the other part of his humane nature which was his soule and spirit and consequently inferre that he was a man and had an humane spirit though compassed with flesh and bones as we haue u Defenc. pag. 139. li. 7. Then the Romans where I affirme that flesh signifieth the whole manhood of Christ according to the which he came from Dauid euen as well as Salomon or Nathan did who were Dauids sonnes in their intire and perfect nature Whether Christs body without a soule which was but a Carcasse be alwaies in the Scriptures intended by the name of Christs flesh this is not the question there is but one place in the new Testament where Christs flesh importeth his dead body as when Peter saith Christes x Acts 2. flesh saw no corruption but whether whatsoeuer is attributed to Christs flesh with comparison or mention of his diuine nature doe properly agree as well to his soule as to his body this is the thing in question betwixt you and me That the man Christ was borne of the Virgin and died on the Crosse there is no doubt but that his soule was made of the seed of Dauid and circumcised crucified as well as his body this is your error and for this you haue no shew in the word of God and therefore you seeke by rules of your owne making to draw it in by the heeles when you cannot by the head It is but a shift to saue your selfe when you tell your Reader that Christs whole manhood came from Dauid as well as Salomon or Nathan did The point is whether Christes soule were made of the seed of Dauid as well as his body was That I denie and haue the Apostle for my warrant that men are only the y Heb. 12. Fathers of our bodies and God is the immediate Father of our spirits Which if it be true in all men then Salomon and Nathan were the sonnes of Dauid not because their soules were made of the seed of Dauid but only their bodies and yet since they drew as much from their father as children by Gods ordinance do or may do therefore were they the sonnes of Dauid In Christ it is most sure which the Apostle saith that according to the flâ—…sh he was made of the seed of Dauid This by no meanes can be verified of his soule howsoeuer you would slubber it vp by calling his whole manhood the sonne of Dauid which I doe not denie Not that his soule was made of the seed of Dauid as was his body that is an open and an odious error but that his flesh made of the seed of Dauid which was the Virgins body was also quickened with a soule from God in due time that came not out of Dauids loines Euen so the whole man in Christ died on the Crosse not that his soule was depriued of life or left dead as was his body but that the coniunction of soule and body which maketh the whole man was dissolued by death his flesh lying in the graue without corruption and his soule remaining in the hands of God to which it was commended z Defenc. pag. 139. So likewise Christ was kinne to the lewes according to his whole humanity as well as Paul was When you can shew kindred in spirits as well as in flesh that is deriued from parents then say that Paul and Christ were kin to the Iewes according to their whole humanity till you proue that howsoeuer vse of speach may be endured which must be interpreted according to the truth you can neuer conclude there is consanguinity betweene soules as there is betweene bodies And spight of your heart if you will not maintaine vntrueths to vphold your credit as your maner is the Apostle teacheth you how to vnderstand those words that as we haue fathers of our bodies from whom our spirits come not but immediatly from God so kindred and consanguinity which commeth by the parents goeth by flesh and bloud receiued from them and not by soules infused from God S. Iohn leadeth you to the same rule that men are borne of bloud and of the will of the flesh and so by flesh and bloud commeth kindred God giuing soules to quicken their bodies Wherefore the Scriptures when they expresse kindred they note it by flesh and bone As when Laban said to Iacob Thou art my a Gene. 29. bone and my flesh So Iudah of Ioseph b Gene. 37. he is our brother and our flesh So Abimelech to his mothers brethren c Iudic. 9. I am your bone and your flesh And vsualy where kindred is claimed or yeelded the Scriptures expresse it by d 2. Sam. 5. 19 flesh and bones as Adam said to Eue e Gen. 2. This now is bone of my bone and flesh of my flesh So that howsoeuer you dreame or talke of the consanguinity of soules it is like the rest of your nouelties which haue no handfast but in your head and the exception taken by me will stand good doe you and your adherents what you can that in these attributes to the manhood of Christ you shall neuer prooue they properly pertaine to both parts but to the whole conioyned or to one part seuerally respected f Defenc. pag. 139. li. 21. Further that which you bring out of the Corinthians compared with this in Peter doth most cleerely open and confirme the same He was crucified touching his infirmitie but liueth by the power of God His soule had infirmities of suffering in it aswell as his bodie therefore his soule also is vnderstood here that it was crucified and died that is according to the condition thereof You proue not what you promise but pronounce what you please which if any man will suffer you to doe we shall soone haue a new Church a new Faith and all things new Afore you pretended rules at least though void of reason and trueth now you
be principles of the Christian faith and that in so euident and pertinent manner that I know not how to lighten or strengthen their wordes Thou hearest them with one voice affirme that Christ died not A DOVBLE but A SINGLE death for vs which they likewise aâ—…ch was the death of HIS BODY ONLY AND NOT OF HIS SOVLâ—… and THâ—… DEATH OF THE SOVLE HE DIED NOT. The death of the soule they truely deriue from the Scriptures to be either sinne or damnation sinne by which men are depriued of all grace and so of the life of God and damnation which is a perpetuall reiection from all blisse addicting the wicked to eternall and intollerable miserie in the torments of hell fire Which of these things will this dreamer denie will he say that Christ died moe deaths then ONE and as well the death of the soule as of the bodie So he must say if he will vphold his new redemption by the death of Christs soule and so he doth say but whether there in he crosse not the full consent of Christs whole Church I leaue it to thy censure Will he shift as hee hath hitherto done with the name of flesh that it compriseth as well the soule as the bodie and therefore by the death of Christs flesh onely the Fathers doe not exclude the death of Christs soule but the death of his Godhead they prooue indeed against the Arians that the Sonne of God could not die in his Diuine nature but onely in his humane flesh And this as we now see is one of their maine reasons The soule of Christ died not nor coulde die much lesse then his Godhead And therefore the most of them do expresse that argument vtterly denying that Christes soule died any kinde of death but onely his flesh Besides a number of them not onely expresâ—…e by circumstances and consequents of burying and rising againe what the rest meane by the flesh but they vse the word 〈◊〉 which can not be taken for the soule and with like zeale and truth auouch that Christ died in his body onely So that these three stand for cleere and sounde conclusions with all these Fathers First that Christ died BVT ONE KIND of death Secondly that HE DIED ONELY IN HIS FLESH OR BODY and thirdly that THE DEATH OF THE SOVLE HE NEITHER DID NOR COVLD DIE. Will hee shuâ—…e with the name of death and say they ment not his kind of death that will nothing relieue him For first if Christ died but one kinde of death and of his bodily death no Christian may so much as doubt then by maine consequent out of their wordes Christ died no death of the soule let him take it how and which way he will Againe if Christ DIED ONELY IN BODY as they likewise witnesse then apparantly he died not any death of the soule neither in your sense Sir Defenser nor in theirs Lastly what death of the soule can you shew mentioned in the Scriptures without the compasse of their diuision that is which is not sinne or damnation Of sinne the Apostles wordes are plaine p Rom. 7. Sinne seduced me and slew 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and I died as likewise that q â—…hes 2. q Coloss. 2. we were dead in our sinnes This death men liâ—…ing may die as the Apostle saith of wanton widowes r â—… Tim. 5. lyuing she is dead and of all the Gentils s â—…phes 4. walking in the vanitie of their minde they are strangers from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them because of the hardnesse of their heart who being past feeling haue giuen themselues to worke all vncleanesse euen with greedinesse Where the hardnesse of mans heart voide of all feeling or 〈◊〉 of God and so running on in all wickednesse is by the Apostle defined to be the death of the soule which is a depriuing or â—…anging from the life of God The second death as I before haue shewed is the laâ—…e burning with fire and brimstone into which the diuell and all the wicked shall be cast Shew now a third death of the soule not in your extraordinarie fansie and folly but in the word of God to which these Fathers proportion their speeches If there be no such thing there then directly earnestly and truely do these Fathers auouch that Christ dâ—…ed no death of the soule Of Fathers it may be your Mastership maketh small account and will not sticke in the high perswasion of your great and deepe learning to reiect them all as ignorant of the principles of their faith and so fitter to be taught then to teach but that proud peeuishnesse to giue it no worse words I leaue to the sober to censure for an vpshot the Reader shall haue a cleere conclusion out of the sacred Scriptures that the soule of Christ neuer was nor could be dead and consequently that these learned and ancient Fathers deliuered sound and true doctrine touching the soule of Christ and The soule of Christ liuing by graâ—…e could no way be dead fully build their asâ—…ertions on the maine foundations of the Diuine Scriptures It is euident by nature sense and trueth that priuatiues can not concurre at one and the same time in one and the same subiect For the one expelleth the other and so can not be found both together Yea since the one of them cleerely remooueth the other they can no more stand together then may contradiction For that which liueth is not dead and that which is dead liueth not I meane alwaies the same time and the same part But the soule of Christ by the manifest and manifold testimonies of holie Scripture did alwaies liue in the fulnesse of faith of hope of loue of grace of trueth of spirit It is euident therefore that the soule of Christ neuer died nor could die Which of these assertions will you encounter that Christes soule may be aliue and dead both at one time You would seeme the leafe before to shunne the shame of t Defenc. pag. 140. li. 25. this absurditie that Christes soule died and died not will you now come plainely and grossely to it by auouching that Christes soule was at one and the same time LIVING AND NOT LIVING DEAD AND NOT DEAD that is both ALIVE AND DEAD If you doe there is no man in England that hath either eies or eares to see or heare but he will reprooue you for a manifest beliar of his sense as well as of Christs soule Will you smoothly set yourselfe to one side and say that Christs soule was not aliue so many parts of life as I haue named in the soule of Christ so many pregnant proofes are there in holy Scripture that Christes soule was not onely liuing but as full of life as of grace during the whole time of his passion Neither is there any one of those things named by mee concerning the life of Christes soule which you can take from Christ without apparent blasphemie For if
est mortuum anima illa non est mortua The word died not the soule of Christ died not And therefore the death of Christ which the Scriptures euery where note was the breathing of his soule out of his body not the separating of his soule from God as you would haue it Austins purpose in that place you little conceiue if you make him haue but one purpose As occasion serued he taught many things pertinent incident to his text which was large euen from the 10. verse vnto the 20. of that f Iohn 10. Chapter And these words I lay downe my soule for my sheepe being part of his text he had iust occasion to treate what death Christ died for his sheepe which was neither the death of his diety nor the death of his soule but only the separating of his soule from his bodie if this make not against you you haue good lucke that nothing will reach you his words refute the foolish error which you would establish that by the Scriptures Christ may be said to haue died the death of the soule as well as the death of the bodie which Austen expressely contradicteth auouching the one and denying the other in as plaine speach as any wise man can require g Defenc. pag. 143. li. 34. All your other discourse heere against me is almost nothing but reuilings and reproches and bitter skoffes Yet you say you haue not learned nor vsed to giue reuiling speaches Haue you not learned it is it then naturall vnto you Nâ—…y you meane these are fatherly warnings and admonitions If your fatherly admonitions are such what are your Lordly rebukes If these be your bishoply blessings what are your cursings What my discourse is against Hâ—… your defendour 〈◊〉 som what pleasurable you muâ—…t bee left neither to your censure nor mine but to the Readers If I called your conclusions bold and foolish shewing neither learning nor wit but sauouring onely of the vanitie of your owne conceits the trueth forced me so to doe which I might not betray When you reiected the iudgements and expositions of the fathers one after an other as k Trea. pa. 69. li. 67. 68. fond and absurd void of sense reason and likelihood yea most absurd and too fond to be spoken and trampled on their names credits as you would on nutshels affirming i Ibid. pa. 95. 96. It is onely the Fathers abusiue speaking and altering the vsuall and ancient sense of words that bred this error their vnapt and perillous translating that confirmed the same and that is a thing too rife with the Fathers yea with some of the auncient est of them to alter and change the Authentike vse of wordes whereby it is easie for errors and grosse mistakings to creepe in is or ought any good man to be so patient or rather negligent as to heare a parrat thus prate against the whole Church of Christ in her best times next after the Apostles and not onely to spare his folly but to reuerence his pride For my part I must confesse I tooke my selfe bound in duety to yeeld him no more regard then he deserued that thus sought to blaze his errors with contempt of all men saue of himselfe If therefore your absurd positions and proofes S. Treatiser did not iustly prouoke these replies which I made in the opinion of any wise and Christian Reader I crie your mercie but if you thinke me to blame for not taking you to be some Patriarke of Vtopia because you can scoffe and mocke as well at Bishops as at fathers Salomon aduiseth me to answere some men according to their merits k Prou. 26. least they seeme wise in their owne eyes Your Mockes I remit to your selfe I am as readie to bearâ—… them for the trueth as you to giue them Howbeit you wanted colours in your coate when you made such pastime with the blessing of Bishops and pepper in your porrage when I taking learned for skilfull which is not strange to any saue to you whose skill is void of all good learning you would needs make your selfe such mirth that railing must be naturall to me because I was not learned or expert therein I wish these were the worst of your toyes and then my sufferance should quiet the whole l Defenc. pag. 144. li. 8. Finally that is not true where you say the flesh doth often signifie the soule in vs. Is it ignorance or malice which driueth you to this waywardnesse to auouch you know not or care not what so you seeme to crosse that I say better learned then you or I obserued that before me which you affirme to be false Austen saith m August dâ—… 〈◊〉 Symbolo â—…a 10. Anima cum carnalia bona adhuc appetit caro nominatur The soule so long as it affecteth fleshly things is called flesh And Ambrose n Ambros. in 6. câ—… 〈◊〉 ad Romanos Caro aliquando corpus intelligitur velipsa anima sequens corporea vitia The flesh is sometimes vnderstoode to be the bodie of mâ—… or the soule it selfe addicted to corporall vices And Ierom. o Hâ—… in 5. ca. â—…pist ad Galat. Anima inter carnem spiritumque consistens quando se tradiderit carni caro dicitur The soule consisting betweene the flesâ—… and the spirit when it yeeldeth it selfe to the flesh is called flesh And least you clamour against these Fathers as your Treatise doth that they change the authentike vse of words heare what Zanchius a man of good iudgement though a late writer saith thereof p Zanchij tractat Theologicâ—… de peccato originali Thes. 6. Flesh and bloud reuealed not this vnto thee saith Christ to Peter The mind of man he calleth flesh and bloud why so because it is wholy corrupted by the flesh so that it sauoureth nothing but flesh How thinke you Sir is it true or false which I sayd that the soule is often called flesh because of her corruption as well as the bodie q Defenc. pag. 144. li. 12. Heere I desire the Reader to change a worde or two in my former Treatise for alwaies to set vsually and for a Man to set Christ. Because since I finde that flesh and spirit together applied to men doe once 2. Corinth 7. vers 1. signifie meerely the body and soule Which then I thought euery where did signifie in vs our corrupt and regenerate man Which ouersight the Bishop spieth not but in this place confirmeth The Bishop that professed hee found fewe true sentences in your Treatise had neither will nor leasure to traduce them all but obseruing your errors in doctrine remitted this and many other ouersights as not preiudicing the maine point in question As for his confirming it that is one of your vsuall verities who by the defending of falshood haue gotten you such an habite that you can scant see or speake a trueth when it toucheth but the skirts of your cause
vs from all deaths And resolue as we may read that by one kinde of death which was the death of Châ—…istes bodie onely both our deaths of body and soule were vtterly abolished And whether this be true or false which I auouch I wish no better triall then the present view of their sayings whom now you stroke as auncient and godlie writers but not long since you stript as fond absurd the peruerters of Authentike words and occasioners of grosse errors b Defenc. pag. 145. li. 1. Tertullian and Cyrill will giue a taste heereof for all the rest You will giue a fresh taste of your vnlearned mistaking them otherwise their places as they make nothing for your pretences so were they obiected and answered before c li. 2. In Tertullians wordes Christes flesh is expresly opposed to his Deitie not to his soule so that euidently he meaneth thereby his whole manhood If you meane that Tertullian still conceaued Christes flâ—…sh to be humane flesh that is not amisse but wide from your matter But if you would obserue that Tertullian in that tractate speaking of Christes flesh doth not distinguish it from Christes soule or maketh common to Christes soule whatsoeuer he there aâ—…firmeth of Christes flesh it is a palpable and pestilent vntrueth When he saith Hâ—…c vox carnis animae id est hominis This was the voice of his flesh and of his soule that is of his Manhood doth he not in exact wordes distinguish Christes flesh from his soule Againe where he saith d Tertullianus aduersus Praxeam Denique spiritum posuit statim obijt spiritu enim manente in carne caro omnino mori non potest Christ laid downe his spirit and straight way died for his spirit abiding in his flesh the flesh could not die at all can there be any doubt but the name of Christs flesh here doth not containe his humane spirit or soule though you auouch the contrarie Of the attributes of Christes flesh he saith e Ibidem videtur contrectatur per carnem Christ is seene and handled by the flesh which I hope he is not by his soule Though therefore he often interpret carnem id est hominem flesh that is man shewing he speaketh of Christ who had both body and soule yet that doth no way prooue that what hee affirmeth of Christes flesh must be common to both parts of Christes manhoode which simple shift when you haue once taken vp you can neuer make an end of it f Defenc. pag. 145. li. 5. If he had ment to exclude any part or facultie of the soule from suffering as he doth his Godhead he had consirmed that heresie against which he striueth as before I noted You keepe close to your owne notes though they want both trueth and iudgement To make Christes soule as impassible as his Godhead was to make him no man for mans soule is mutable subiect to affections and passions which God is not But what is this to the death of Christes soule if it were an humane soule and not equall with his Deitie or what heresie doth this confirme if Tertullian deny Christs soule to be mortall which he ascribeth to the flesh of Christ You talke much of heresiâ—…s but take heed you leape not head and eares into them whiles you deuise new deaths and new hels for the soule of Christ without and against the rules of the sacred Scriptures g Defenc. pag. 145. li. 7. It seemes he yeeldeth the name of death to this suffering of Christes whole manhood in saying quod vnctum est mortuum ostendit that died which receaued the annointing For I hope his spirit was anointed with the holy Ghost as well as his flesh You doe weâ—…l to adâ—…e seeming to this saying for to him that vnderstandeth little it may so seeme when in trueth it is nothing lesse Tertullian interpreting the name Christ which is as much as Anointed saith Christ died not as he was the word and Sonne of God but as he was Anointed that is in his humane flesh which was anointed as well as his humane spirit Doth he say all that was anointed died as you most falsly would enforce his speech It sufficeth then that he died not as he was God who can no way be subiect to death but as he was man hauing one part mortall which was his bodie and he died that death which is common to all I meane the separating of the soule from the body not that which is speciall to the wicked as reiâ—…ction from the fauour and grace of God Tertullians owne words next before are these h Tertullianus aduersus Praxeam Cum duae substantiae censeantur in Christo Iesu diuina humana consâ—…et autem immortalem esse diuinaâ—… cum mortalem quae humana sit apparet quatenus eum mortuum dicat id est 〈◊〉 carnem hominem silium hominis non quâ spiritum sermonem filium Dei. Dâ—…do â—…que Christus mortuus est id est vnctus id quod vnctum est mortuum ostendit 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 câ—…rnem Where there are two substances in Christ Iesus a diuine and â—…n humane and it is câ—…rtaine that the diuine is immortall and the humane mortall it is plaine wherein the Apostle pronounced Christ to be dead that is as he was flesh and man and the Sonne of man not as he was a spirit and the word and Sonne of God In saying then Christ that is the Anointed was dead he sheweth that which was Annointed euen his flesh to haue beene dead Will you teach out of these wordes that Christes soule was certainely mortall because it was not his diuine substance and that he died in soule because he died in his humane nature as a man which Tertullian expoundeth to be his flesh and likewise his death to be the laying downe of his soule or breathing out of his spirit as the Euangelist describeth it i Defenc. pag. 145. li 14. My false translating of him which you note is not worth the noting but you doe worse in false placing those his last rehearsed words for aduantage in Tertulliâ—…n they are vsed more generally comming long before Your mistranslating can not be defended and my misplacing as you call it is no way preiudiciall either to the truth or the authors intent What should hinder me to alleage diuers sentences out of any Writer occurrent in one and the same Treatise and tending all to declare his meaning and to dâ—…ct your misconstruction of him I vse to set Ibidem by the side to shew that it is a new sentence which if the Printer omit what wrong is done to the Reader so long as I adde or alter nothing as you do He that will rightly conceiue anothers sense must compare his words vttered in the same discourse and belonging to the same matter You say they are vsed more generally in their owne place this were somewhat if your saying were any thing
the perfection of their celestiall glory Otherwise against you and all that out of this place surmise that iust mens soules shall not be deliuered out of Sheol till the resurrection the sense and words of Dauid in this are pregnant enough For Dauid putting a difference in thâ—…se two verses betwixt himselfe and the wicked and that with an aduersatiue coniunction since the soules of the wicked are in Sheol presently vpon their deaths if Dauids must be there also what distinction doe his wordes make betweene himselfe and those others of whom he spake before Againe he saith God will deliuer his soule from Sheol ki cúm or quia when he shall receiue me or because he will receiue me Take which you will it is plaine by the Scriptures and by these very words of Dauid that so soonâ—… as God receiueth the soule of man it is deliuered from Sheol But hee receiueth the soules of his Saints instantly vpon their deaths they are therefore presently deliuered out of Sheol and stay not there by any force of Dauids wordes vntill the resurrection Lord Iesus sayd Steuen euen as he was stoned receiue my spirit The begger died saith the Gospell and was caried by the Angels into Abrahams bosome This day shalt thou be with mee in Paradise said Christ to the theefe He that beleeueth in him that sent me saith Christ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is already passed from death to life If the faithfull passe so soone to life they bee as soone deliuered from Sheol by Dauids owne confession against which I will heare neither you nor any man liuing Againe that Psalme sheweth it also where it is thus written My soule is filled with sorrowes and my liâ—…e draweth neere to Sheol by his life he meaneth his soule the proper cause and fountaine of life in him which also in â—…e first part of the sentence hee nameth By these rouing and licentious glozes builded on the sands of your owne saying you thinke you may prooue what you will and all shall be expresse Scripture if you say the word Life you will haue to be soule drawing neere to be abiding in The graue to be the generall condition of soules deceased and to warrant all this your selfe is the soothsayer By his life he meaneth his soule which also in the first part of the sentence hee nameth as the manner of phrase in the Psalme is in the second part to speake of the same things that are in the former Many verses in the Psalmes doe illustrate the selfe same generall with diuers parts adiuncts and consequents but that the words be of all one force or signification in euery such verse this is an other of your new found methodes which is nothing else but a meere confusion of all things For will you see with your manner of phrase as you finâ—…ly furbish it what consequents hang on these kind of collections This life of which Dauid speaketh continueth not in Sheol because it is vtterly exstinguished by Sheol ergo the soule likewise is mortall and wholy perisheth in Sheol for so doth the life mentioned by Dauid which you say is all one with the soule Againe if both these parts import one sense then the iust in Sheol are filled with sorrowes for so are the former wordes of Dauid And if that be true how much hath the spirit of God deceiued vs who bad S. Iohn write blessed are the dead which hereafter die in the Lord euen so saith the spirit for they rest from their labours But that was the spirit of trueth and therefore the spirit of error in you sucketh these absurdities out of the Psalmes by your misconstruction of them Indeede I denie not but life may signifie heere the whole person of man and so may nephesh the soule also very well and then Sheol and Hades signifie not peculiarly and distinctly the graue which is only for the car casse but the condition of the whole man after he hath no being in this world And per aduenture so it is vnderstood heere in thâ—…se places in which sense Sheol and Hades are farre from signifying hell yea or heauen either yea or onely and meerely the graue but it signisieth destruction out of this world and not being heere any more as aforetime to the whole person that is both to the bodie and to the soule The idle deuices of this wild-gooseracer who would spend either time or paines to tracke when he reeleth to and fro like a man pot-shotten with it may be and per aduenture it is so and closeth vp all in the end with a dangerous destruction which he maketh to be iust nothing Boyes meanely Catechised can soone conceiue that death or the graue bringeth with it an end of all earthly things from which the wicked are loth to depart as hauing no farder nor better hope after this life and therefore to them death is a destruction indeed that is a ceasing of all their pleasures and an encreasing of all their paines To the godly who put not their hearts to the things of this world but desire to bee dissolued and to bee with Christ and in comparison of his presence account all earthly things to be base and burdenous death is a gaine and no destruction because they renounced the loue of all these worldly thinges before hand and sought for the permanent citie whose founder is God Wherefore to them this bodie is a burden this life is a warefare and this world is a desert full of snares and pits Wherein they wander as pilgrimes and strangers If then to lay aside these troubles and trifles and to be freed from all labours and dangers and to come home to the countrcy and citie which God hath prouided for the faithfull be in any wise mans sense a destruction then haue you some reason to call the generall condition of death as well to the iust as to the wicked a destruction but if that thought and speech be void of all religion and reason then doe you houer in the midst betweene heauen and hell and huddle saluation and damnation in one generall condition or state as you call it and when you sce what inconuenience will follow thereof you make it nothing but a meere priuation or an end of things past And this you would applie as well to the person of Christ whose soule you say was in no Sheol but this as to al his members whose soules shall not be freed from this destruction and Sheol till the day of resurrection Did you speake of the nature of death in it selfe or as it taketh hold on the wicked I would allow the word destruction which if it be well vnderstood is more then a mâ—…re priuation but when you presume to peruert the Scriptures with peraduentures and to sow to them what sense you list as may best fit your monstrous fancies lâ—…t no man be offended if I often thinke it fit to reiect your
the Gentiles neuer vsed that word which the heathen at that time did not vnderstand but where occasion so required they retained the word hades and applied it to the place of torment and to the ruler thereof which things were not strange to the Gentiles Since then the Euangelist and Apostles neuer ment to confirme or continue the erroneous fansies of the Pagans and yet vsed their words it is euident they vnderstood so much by these wordes as was not repugnant to the Christian faith Now hades with the Pagans was a place vnder the earth where the wicked after this life were punished This was agreeable to the trueth and for that cause the Apostles retained that sense and force of the word That the soules of the iust were also kept vnder the earth in rest and ease this was the error of the heathen though both Iewes and Christians lighted afterwardes on that fansie This the Apostles doe not ratifie in vsing the word hades for that it was not consonant to the grounds of true religion from which they neuer ment to depart by vsing any wordes accustomed among the heathen And as the Gentiles before they beleeued vsed hades for the chiefe ruler of those Infernall places so doth Saint Iohn not refuse to attribute that name to the diuell in his Reuelation And so without your conceits or discourses we haue shortly and plainely the cause and course why and how the Canonicall writers concurred with the Grecians in vsing the word hades and yet corrected their error Howbeit I thinke the Apostles had chiefe respect to the Septuagint who translating the Hebrew into Greeke then rife in many learned mens handes and expressing there the sense of Sheôl vsed Hades for the death of the bodie in the graue and for the death of the soule in hell after whose example the sacred writers of the new Testament speaking of the wicked or ioyning death with hades note what hades is besides the death of the bodie which they intend by Thanatos And therefore though Hades in the old Testament import the places of death for bodie and soule I meane the graue and hell yet throughout the new Testament that word being alwayes opposed to heauen applied to the wicked or connexed with other wordes that signifie the death of the bodie it must of force be taken for the power and place that killeth the soules of all men approching it except onely Christs to whom all powers and principalities in heauen and earth and hell were and are submitted and subiected Hitherto wee haue tried the nature and vse of Hades and haue found it to bee not properly hell as you auouch no not when it is applied to soules of men deceased And therefore also that it cannot be so vnderstood in Acts 2.27 where it is applied to Christs soule after he was dead which yet is the onely place you haue to pretend Hitherto you haue prated what pleased you and proued nothing and notwithstanding your vaine euasions meere priuations inuincible conditions and plaine visible contradictions Hades is found by the full consent of Christian and heathen writers to bee a place vnder the earth and in darkenesse where the soules of the dead adiudged to that place were and are detained vnder the Dominion of the Diuell though the Pagans in their wandering from their trueth imagined him to be a God and dreampt of earthly pleasures there to comfort their deiected spirits against the terror of death And since Christs soule was not left in hades after death as appeareth Acts 2.31 what haue you or any man liuing to say why Christs descent to Hades that is as the Gospell expoundeth this word to the place of torment of which it was impossible for him to be held or to bee therewith touched should not bee iustly grounded on this place wee may simply take hades for the inuisible state or place of the deceased If for the place then for heauen where you say Christes soule was after death And would Christ so greatly reioice that his soule should not be left in heauen Otherwise we may take it simply for deaths force and power supplying also the same wordes eis ton topon or tên chôran hadou in that place where the power and strength of death preuaileth and holdeth the deceased soules from their bodies You haue so many senses that you haue neuer a good First you tooke hades for a state or place and then you supplied it as indeed you must with topon or choran a place or region And so your sense went round like a wheele Thou wilt not leaue my soule in the place of place or state which is not seene that is not in heauen Now you renew your strength to take better hold and saie Thou wilt not leaue my soule to the place of deaths power Where we must note that heauen for there was Christes soule as you grant is by you appointed to be the place of deaths power and so you haue brought vs the strength and power of death and darknesse preuailing in heauen and euen on Christes soule This is the world of the dead implying nothing else but an estate opposite to our visible state in this world Are the places or states of heauen and hell nothing but an opposition to our visible estate in this world There are bodies both in heauen and in hell by the consent of the best Diuines new and old How then is their state opposite to our visible state Moses and Elias were seene talking with Christ in the mount What place will you appoint for them since they were visible And if the world of the dead be nothing else but an estate opposite to our visible estate then Christ after his resurrection relapsed often to hades to the world of the dead for he was inuisible to all men as long as he staied on earth but when and where he was pleased to shew himselfe And if that be true which you your selfe doe say that l in very deed hades hath properly but a priuatiue sense and not any thing positiue in it then your additions of place and region be repugnant to the nature of hades except you can bring vs a place and region of meere priuations in which is nothing positiue and consequently your varieties and expositions of hades be meere illusions and haue nothing in them but lies and mockeries For hades is a place below in the earth and darke by condition as wherein nothing is seene as both Christians and Pagans affirme Hades therefore is no mecre priuation If the soule of Christ then after death were in hades it was not at the same time in heauen for heauen is opposite throughout the Scriptures to hades and your owne common and inuisible place of both is a priuate and palpable errour of your owne Last of all we may take Hades heere by a prosopopaea conceauing it to be as it were some person of vnresistable power taking away
vsed by misapplying them to your fansie Otherwise feares and sorrowes to satisfie and pacifie the wrath of God against our sinnes Christ might haue and yet be farre from the paines of the damned and the second death yea from the terrors and confusion of the wicked since he knowing the iustnesse and greatnesse of Gods anger against sinne and how impossible it was for him with patience to support the power thereof either in soule or in body might giue God his due by inward and euident sorrow for sinne and feare of Gods power by which the fiercenesse of Gods indignation against sinne was rebated and calmed and so much paine proportioned to the weakenesse of Christs flesh as should not exceede the patience of his humane nature But this doth no way further your hell paines suffered in the soule of Christ since these religious feares and sorowes which mitigate the wrath of God though they be painefull in themselues yet haue they no communion with the feares and sorrowes of the reprobate much lesse of the damned o Defenc pag. 119. li. 5. What reason haue you against our assertion Verily only this you oppose because all the sorowes of the reprobate are but sinfull guiltinesse of conscience or feares of iudgement foreseene which is executed onely in the next life you meane onely in the definite and locall hell Which is no refutation of my assertion that Christ was as sharpely touched with paine as the very reprobate When men affirme strange and new positions in Christian religion they must not aske what reason can be brought against them but they must shew where that they teach is written in the word of God or ineuitably concluded from that which is written for p Rom. 10. faith is by hearing and hearing by the word of God So that if you take vpon you to be a Coiner of new Creeds we must not beleeue you till by reason we can refute you but you ought q Prou. 30. not to adde to the word of God lest you be found a liar Shew then where these comparisons and positions are written if not feare the plagues appointed for such as adde their lies to the Trueth of God And yet to exclude all comparison betweene Christ and the reprobate in this case what better reason can be brought than that Christes feares and sorowes had no sociâ—…tie nor affinitie with the feares and terrours of the reprobate for no rule of reason alloweth you to compare things together that haue no likenesse betwixt themselues You make Christ and the reprobate yea and the damned equall in paine and Christes paines superiour to the sharpest of theirs and yet when all is sayd there is no kinde of likenesse betwixt their paines r Defenc pag. 119. li. 11. Though the wicked in this world did neuer suffer any reall effect of Gods burning wrath working actuall vengeance on their soules for sinne but only some guiltie remorse or feare and nothing els yet this letteth not but that Christ whom God ordained extraordinarily and alone to be in this life a whole and absolute burnt sacrifice for all sinne did feele and suffer the same truely properly and perfectly You were of opinion in your Treatise and set it downe resolutely for one of your new-made Maximes That the s Trea. pa. 77. li. 5. paines and sufferings of Gods wrath did ALVVAYES ACCOMPANIE THEM that are separated from the grace and loue of God And euen there you also affirmed t li. 9. Christ suffered the horror of Gods seuere iustice LIKE THEM who be separated indeed from the grace and loue of God If you stand to these words you must confesse that Christ suffered the horror of reiection confusion and desperation LIKE to the reprobate which is euen as the reprobate doe suffer it and then ineuitably you fasten on the soule of Christ a plaine persuasion and inward feeling that he was for the time reiected confounded and seuered from God as the reprobate be which whether it will amount to open impietie I leaue to the Christian Reader to iudge Your cunning in two leaues after with as touching the vehemencie of paine is a giddie deuice when you haue made their horrors like then to restraine it to the sharpnesse of paine for thereby you doe not intend to make their horrours vnlike which before you pronounced to be like but that their horrours being LIKE their paines can not be vnlike Since then paine and griefe of minde is a necessarie consequent to horror as it is to feare and sorow you doe not recall but confirme your former impâ—…etic That Christ hauing the same horrour of Gods iustice and wrath which the reprobate haue must needs haue the same paine forsomuch as that horrour is not without paine answerable to it in the soule of man despairing the goodnesse of God and beholding nothing in God but his terrible and fierie indignation against sinne That the wicked haue ALVVAYFS these horrors accompanying them in this life is a great and grosse vntrueth the 73 Psalme doth auouch the cleane contrarie u Psal. 73. ver Loe these are the wicked yet prosper they alway So that they for the most part liue here in pleasure and abundance neither are they plagued with other men but x Luke 16. receiue their good things in this life saue when the wisdome and iustice of God is pleased to make some of them examples vnto others for then these inward terrours of minde raised with remorse of sinne and feare of iudgement to come doe desperately finally and vtterly ouerwhelme them This now you begin to see which before was not within your thoughts and therefore you now affirme that though the wicked did suffer no such thing as you before sayd they ALVVAYES suffered yet this doth not hinder but Christ did feele and suffer the same What doth not hinder is not the question but what doth helpe you to proue that Christ did suffer your new-made hell from the immediat hand of God in the garden or on the crosse I hope you bring it not for an argument that the wicked do not suffer it in this life ergo Christ did suffer it That were very strange both Logicke and Diuinitie y Defenc. pag. 119. li. 18. Second how I haue alwayes expresly excluded from Christ all sinfull adherents and consequents in paines and feares which are in the wicked and doe resemble his to theirs onely in sharpnesse and vehemencie of paine I haue often declared before In generall words you would seeme to exclude them but by your positions and comparisons you conclude the contrary for if you exempt from Christ all feare and doubt of his Fathers loue towards him and confesse he had perfect and full assurance of all Gods promises in the midst of his paines tell vs then how the horrours of the reprobate could inuade his soule Shew vs how the fulnesse of trueth and grace alwayes dwelling in him he could be so confounded
and amazed as to feele or thinke himselfe forsaken of God when he neither was nor could be sâ—…uered from the loue life fauour or spirit of God Absolute and inherent paine not deriued from feare or sorow but only discerned by the naturall powers and faculties of the soule if you put in the mind of Christ it must neither excâ—…ed his patience nor euert his obedience for if you make him faile or saint in either of these you presently close him within the compasse of impatience and disobedience which are more than sinfull consequents Now that the true paines â—…emency of hell paines passe the patience of men and angels oâ—… hell or of the damned may be suffered of men or angels or of Christ himselfe with patience you must looke to proue before you take libertie to affirme You may suppose what you list but afore any Christian man may giue credit to your dreames he must see them soundly prouâ—…d not by your owne headie and hastie positions but by the vndoubted word of Trueth which onely is the meet measure to direct things in and after this life And for feares and sorowes which sometimes beset the godly by the weakenesse of their faith and remembrance of their sinnes and subuert the wicked in the middest of their peace and pleasure when their destruction draweth neere neither of these can be either in the Elect or Reprobate in this life without soâ—…e sinfull defects in Gods seruants and desperate impieties in his enemies for these feares and sorowes doe shake the faith and hope of such as should beleeue and trust in Gods promises and mercies and in the wicked they worke an vtter relapsing and recuiling from all affiance and expectance that God will be gracious vnto them In Christ then these were more sinfull than in any other if after so cleere and constant promises and oaths secretly decreed formerly reuealed and lastly proclaimed by God from heauen the Sonne of God should stagger and wauer in the full and immoueable persuasion and resolution of Gods most gracious purpose and promise faith and fauour towards him Wherefore his apprehension of Gods wrath against our sinnes must be such as might not call the loue that God bare towards him in any question but he might well beholde the iustnesse and greatnesse of Gods displeasure against our vncleannesse and knowing full well the power of Gods wrath to exceed infinitely the strength of his humane nature with sorow and feare due to so great and yet so strâ—…ngth indignation against our sinnes he might assuage and pacifie the fiercenesse of that anger which we had prouoked and by most humble confession and submission quench the flame thereof which otherwise would burne to euerlasting destruction of all resisters and neglecters of Gods holinesse and righteousnesse z Defenc. paâ—… 119. li. 21. Thirdly the case is cleere enough that the reprobate many times in this life doe not only feare the iudgement to come but also doe feele some reall and actuall impression of Gods burning wrath and euen of hell torments though not being yet in the locall hell Is it cleere enough that the paines of the damned are sometimes executed here in this life on the reprobate and that by Gods immediate hand what Scripture haue you for it that horrible feares and terrors doe sometimes besiege them and that the Diuell doth now then possesse and torment some of them who are out of Gods protection the Scripture witnesseth as well by rules as by examples but that the paines of the damned are no greater then are felt in this life or that this mortall flesh is able to endure the true torments of hell vnder which the Diuels themselues doe sinke what rule or reason leadeth you to that presumptuous error Cain was afflicted with the terror of his owne conscience Saul was vexed with an euill spirit sent from the Lord and into Iudas the diuell entring draue him with desperation to confesse his sinne and to hang himselâ—…e Other examples of men possessed and tormented by Diuels are many in the Gospell Which of these whom you name did not eat sleepe and manage other affaires of this life as time did permit them notwithstanding their inward torments of mind Saul was eased with musicke when the euill spirit of God vexed him and liued as king of Israel in that case almost forty yeeres Cain liued a long time after he was cast from Gods presence and begat children on his wife Can men haue leasure or list to doe or desire any of these things in the true torments of hell You will make an easie hell if the torments there be no greater but that men may eat sleepe beget children and delight themselues with melody The greatest feare that euer afflicted Saul for ought that we read was when he that appeared in shâ—…w of Samuel sayd to Saul a 1. Sam. 2â—… To morow shalt thou and thy sâ—…nes be with me and the Lâ—…rd shall giue the host of the Israelites into the hands of the Philistines for then be feli straightway all along on the earth and was sore afraid and at first refused to eat but after at the perswasion of the witch and his seruants he b Ibid. ver 23. â—… 25. arose from the earth and did c Heb. 10. eat Prate of this so long as you will no wise man will wander so farre from the trueth as to thinke they haue such leasure and ease in the paines of hell d Defenc. pag. 119. li. 25. For proofe whereof that which before I alleged out of Iob and others that euen the godly heere want not experience of the sorowes of hell sometimes you passe ouer answearing nothing thereunto Which being so in the godly it must needes be in Cain Iudas and the reprobates farre more direfull and intollerable sometimes Such proofes doe well become such a cause The godly are sometimes afraid of Gods displeasure and are persued with the tentations and snares of Satan Ergo they feele the very torments of the damned What shew of reason is in this which is worth the answearing and yet how often haue I repelled this peeuish presumption and obserued that if desperation which is the greatest torment of this life be but a e Heb. 10. fearefull looking for of iudgement and violent fire which shall deuoure the aduersaries The difference is great betwixt the expectance and the experience of that terrible iudgement at which the Diuel himselfe trembleth Which may soone be gathered though not so soone be measured For the destruction and confusion of the damned may better be feared then knowen forsomuch as the Scripture threatneth that as the full wages of wickednesse and highest degree of Gods displeasure against sinne But you are vnansweared you say Some weighty reasons belike that require so exactly an answeare Euery trifle with you must haue a speciall answeare when you skip leaues by the dosen and speake to no more then you mistake or
And how come you now to put so great a difference betwixt alwaies and vsually where before you did interpret alwaies to be ordinarily but now you finde flesh and spirit together applied to men once to signifie meerely the body and soule Meane you in all the Scriptures or in the new Testament onely You call it the r Treatis pag. 136. li. 8. perpetuall vse of the Scripture and so must include the old Testament as well as the new except you will barre the old from being part of the Scripture What then shall become of that which Moses so often ascribeth to God when he saith s Numb 16. 27. O God the God of the spirits of all flesh Praieth he for the spirits of men or of beastes If you will straighten your wordes to the new Testament how insolent a bragger and negligent a Reader of the Scripture are you that first said it was alwaies so and now correcting your error say you finde it once otherwise where a childe might easily haue found it oftner The Apostle decreed the Offender at Corinth to be t 1. Coâ—… 5. deliuered vnto Sathan for the destruction of the flesh that the spirit might be saued in the day of the Lord. And to the Hebrewes he telleth vs u Heb. 12. We had fathers of our flesh which corrected vs and we reuerenced them Should we not much more be subiect to the Father of spirits In both which places the spirit of force must signifie the substance of mans soule x Defenc. pag. 144. li. 19. Finally to make an end with your Fathers and Councels I haue shewed before that your large claime prooueth a very short gaine For in substance and full effect they are euidently and generally against you and for vs. If thou thinke Christian Reader that I charge this man vniustly with impudent facing behold but these wordes and say what thou thinkest of them He that hath not brought nor can not bring one euident or pertinent word out of any Father for the death of Christes soule he yelleth out with open throatâ—… that generally and euidently they are in substance and full effect for him and against me It is no time heere to repeat what is past by that which is said thou maist easily iudge on which side the Fathers stand with full confession of the trueth and their faith Bragging is boies play where all performance wanteth y li. 24. As for their denying that Christ died in his soule I haue answered before With senselesse and shamefull shifts that Christes soule died not as the body did that he died not the ordinary death of the soule expressed in the Scriptures but an extraordinary newly deuised by your selfe and more then this in summe and substance you haue not said one word z li. 25. Further where you bring them in many places saying by his bloud onely he redeemed vs and he suffered onely in his body they are abused by you woonderfully not in their wordes but in their meaning You would faine change dying into suffering and haue your Reader imagine that I say Christes soule suffered nothing at all but these are now so stale tricks of yours that euery man reiecteth them as fast as I doe From death you 〈◊〉 to sufferings from sufferings to proper sufferings of the soule to which you à dde as a supplussage the paines of the damned from the immediate hand of God And so where you finde any Father affirme that Christ GRIEVED FEARED OR SORROWED in soule which are the naturall passions of mans soule common to good and badde you looke no farder but presently pronounce that Father maketh euidently with you But awake out of this ignorant lâ—…thargie there be many steps betweene their words and your wiles which you will neuer tread ouer with any the least shew of truth or proofe If I haue not abused their wordes in alleaging them as you confesse and I assure my selfe I haue not but where the Printer perchance hath made some fault which no man can auoid as pag. 81. August de Trinitate li. 11. the Printer hath set for lib. 13. and some such then haue I lesse abused their meaning whereof I make euerie Reader iudge and so referre my collecting to their censuring which is no abuse a Defenc. pag. 144. li. 28. They striuing against Arians and such other heretikes who would haue Christs Deitie to take part in his sufferings for our redemption the godly auncient writers doe heereupon say he suffered and satisfied for vs onely in his body not excluding the proper and immediate sufferings of his spirit Let the Authors themselues be viewed if you thinke 1 affirme of them falsely Against whom they write is not so much as what they write and how they confute those heretikes whom they vndertake The positions which they establish out of the Scriptures against such heresies are most to be regarded by their proofes you shall see their purpose To confound those misbeleeuers that would haue the Godhead of Christ suffer in his flesh or together with his flesh the Fathers do soundly oppose first that the Godhead is inuiolable impassible immutable and such like properties of the Godhead Secondly that the soule of Christ was subiect to no kind of death neither of sinne nor damnation which are not the death of the body as you wilfully but most absurdly would wrest it and therefore the Godhead was much more free not onely from this death of the bodie but from all touch of any kinde of death Thirdly to shew what it was in Christ that died since neither the Deitie nor the soule of Christ could die any kinde of death they prooue that that which died was a mortall bodie buried and raised againe the third day according to the Scriptures Which accidents and attributes belonging onely to the body of Christ It is most certaine by the sacred Scriptures that onely the body of Christ was yeelded to death for the redemption of our sinnes These be the chiefest of their reasons though they haue many others tending to the same issue which whether they truely and effectually exclude the death of Christes soule from the worke of our redemption I leaue it to their iudgement that shall peruse the former places by me cited or view the Fathers themselues in their full discourses And yet a number of these Fathers in the places by me alleaged doe not refute the Arians but handle professedly other points of our redemption saluation as Tertullian in his booke of the Resurrection of the flesh Chrysostom in his Homily of drunkennesse of the resurrection Augustine in his 99. Epistle those Chapters of his fourth Booke de Trinitate which I produced Gregorie vpon Iob Bernard in his Sermons to the Souldiers of the Temple Bede in his Homilies and Albinus in his questions these I say doe not there take in hand to refell the Arians but to deliuer what kinde of death Christ died to free