10. Heb. 10 â—â— 1 Pet. 2. 9. 1 Joh. 1. 7. 2 Joh. v. 10 11. Revel 2. 14 15 20. Chap 18. 4. and 19. 20. A remarkable Passage in the Vindication-Booke ANd if our Assembly and Ministers will but diligently preach against that Catalogue of scandalous sins and sinners they have presented to the Parliament and the Parliament prescribe severe Temporall Lawes and Punishments against them and appoint good Civill Magistrates to see them duly executed inflicted I am confident that this would work a greater Reformation in our Church and State in one halfe yeare then all the Church-Discipline and Censures now so eagerly contested for will do in an Age and will be the only true way and speediest course to reforme both Church and State at once which I hope the Parliament will consider of and take care that our Ministers like the Bishops formerly may not now be taken up with Ruling and Governing but Preaching and Instructing which is worke enough wholly to engrosse their time and thoughts FINIS LEt this Way of Peace and Reconciler among Brethren intituled The Smoke in the Temple more then ordinarily usefull in these times be printed Imprimatur IOHN BACHILER The Smoke in the Temple WHEREIN IS A DESIGNE FOR PEACE RECONCILIATION of Beleevers of the severall OPINIONS of these Times about ORDINANCES to a Forbearance of each other in Love and Meeknesse and Humility With the opening of each Opinion and upon what SCRIPTURES each is grounded With the severall EXCEPTIONS which may be made against each Opinion from the SCRIPTURES With one Argument for Liberty of Conscience from the NATIONALL CONVENANT With another Argument to prove the Gospell or New Testament of Iesus Christ the very Word of God Tendred to all the Beleeuers to shew them how little we have attained and there is a more glorious Fulnesse to be revealed With a Discovery of the Antichristian way of Peace c. for Opinions With a full Answer to Master LEY One of the Assembly of Divines against my late New Quaere With some spirituall Principles drawn forth of the Controversie Rev. 15. 8. And the Temple was filled with smoke from the glory of God and from his power and and no man was able to enter into the Temple till the seven plagues of the seven Angels were fulfilled By Iohn Saltmarsh Preacher of the Gospell at Brasteed in KENT THE THIRD EDITION Printed for Giles Calvert at the Signe of the Black Spread-Eagle at the West-End of S. PAULS 1646. To the Right Honourable the Lord Vicount SAY and SEALE and Lieutenant Generall CROMWEL Noble Patriots IF I mistake not you may here single out somthing of the Lords from what is mine and discerne some beames of God amongst many things of man I know the candle of the Lord cannot shine any where with more snuff then in me however since the Lord hath lighted it I dare not but let it shine or rather glimmer before men I have writ your Names to my Book that I may be one of your Remembrancers amongst the rest to the advancement of Truth not but they who know ye know ye to be acted by a Spirit of Truth in your selves The Lord remember ye according to all the good ye have done in your severall Ministrations to this people and do that for ye which gives you most and yet takes most from ye even filling ye with himself till he hath emptied ye of all but his own glory and gathered ye up into the fulnesse and righteousnesse of himselfe in Christ where we are only nothing in our selves and every thing in him and surely the most and best and greatest thing he can do for the sons of men is thus to make them nothing in their own account that he that glorieth may glory in the Lord. I may seeme strange to wish ye thus but I know it is not strange to ye who know the Mystery of the Spirit and of Christ My Lord and Sir Go on still yet still laying your designes in a glory above that of States and Kingdomes and involving all your Counsels there where there is most of Heaven and least of the world So praies Your Servant in the Lord IOHN SALTMARSH To the Beleevers of severall Opinions for outward Ordinances or dispensations scandalously called Independents Presbyterians Anabaptists Seekers Brethren I Have fairly set down how far each of you have attained in the Mystery of Truth and surely we are all short of the glory which shall be revealed in the Temple or Church of God and there are such clouds rolling about each opinion that may darken it or something of it So as things are not so cleare as they are commonly taken by each of us If any man think he knoweth anything he knoweth nothing yet as he ought to know So as the common ignorance and infirmity amongst us may be a rise for a common Vnity amongst us and seeing we all come out of Babylon though in several waies to the glorious Temple or Tabernacle which God hath sent down to be with men and walk thus diversly thither yet our severall and distinct goings are but like so many Travellers to the City of London some travell from the North some from the South and from the West some from the East yet all thither though too there may be some mistaking of the way in each because of the little light that is abroad The gathering of the Saints into the Heaven or Kingdom below in this day of Revelation is like the gathering at the last day which shall be all into one glorious Body though the gathering shall be from the four winds or ends of the Earth by the severall Trumpets or Angels One thing I have more Let us seek for the Spirit of wisdom and revelation to open to us the Mystery of the Scriptures called The Revelation for in that Book is the Prophecie of the Churches laid up and the seasons and times for Truth revealed Let us search and seek out by the Spirit of Iesus even that Iesus which was in the Vision and gave it out to Iohn for there is none found worthy to open the Book with Seals but the Lambe Surely in the Mystery of Angels Vials Sea of glasse with fire Temple with Smoke the Angell with the everlasting Gospell the Angell enlightning the Earth the Whore in skarlet and pretious pearles the Cup of abomination the Beast like a Lamb the Image of the Beast the Horus and Kings of the Earth the marke in the forehead and in the right hand the buying and selling the Tabernacle of God with men the first and second Resurrection the Ihronâ— of God the pure Chrystall River of water the Holy Ierusalem descending from God c. In these is much of the glory wrapped up and from these shall the Truth we contend for appeare to our further enlightning Yet one thing more We that are thus contenders for Ordinances for the Temple and the Vessels in it let us
in things immediately divine and spirituall The consciences of men are under a spirituall and immediate Interpreter of the Word even the Spirit of the Lord in all things of spirituall cognizance as every Scripture-truth or Truth in the Word is and this is not only strengthened and cleer from the Word but from a testimony which some when they read may know better then many others By the Clause According to the Word of God we understand so far as we doe or shall in our consciences conceive the same to be according to the Word of God Now each man standing thus ingaged in his owne particular and in his own proper conscience by a Covenant recommended and imposed each is bound to bring forth the evidence of their consciences in particular concerning this to which they are covenanted So as I or you being covenanted against Popery Heresie and according to the Word of God you and I stand bound by our own private consciences to reveale to the State who hath recommended such a Covenant unto us what our consciences interpret according to this Word against Popery or Heresie unlesse there could be one universall or publike infallible Interpreter of the Word of God and Truth who might determine concerning Heresie and the Word of God and whose determinations is as in the formerly inspired Apostolical teachers we may rest So being thus ingaged by Covenant we are at the same time by one and the same Act bound to liberty of conscience in these particulars of the things of God And if there should be any persecution for the pious modest and peaceable liberty so taken and practised whether would it not clearly and undeniably follow that our consciences are not under the Lord Iesus and his Spirit immediatly in the things of God but under the interpretations of men And surely that one Clause according to the Word of God is most providentially inserted for if we be so closely covenanted to the Word of God how tender ought we to be lest in this dark season of our discerning we oppose somthing of the Word and so in ignorance persecute what we covenant to maintaine I wish our Assembly would presse this equally with the Covenant in their Sermons Object But must every one be the Interpreter of the Covenant Answ Nay not every one in every thing The Magistracy in all things of a civill cognizance and in all spirituall things which go out from their meer spirituall condition into a morall offence as injustice or evill transgression into tumult or disturbance of publike or private peace actually and expressely not interpretatively for so the Nations interpreted the Iewes as troublers of the State and the Iewes Christ and his Disciples as movers of sedition The Papists and Prelats interpreted the Nonconformists or reproâ—ched Puritans as factious and tumultuous So as in all things of Morall Civill or Secular cognizance which the Magistrate hath clear rule for to walke by He ought to interpret and proceed by partly because he is the Legislator and so is the best Interpreter and can best resolve us in things of Law and publike liberty and in morals his duty lies out more cleerly but in meerly divine and spirituall interpretations of Truth and Gospell-mystery the Lord Jesus and the Spirit of Jesus Christ are both the Legislators or Law givers and Interpreters to the conscience Obj. But shall there be no power to compell consciences into Uniformity Answ I shall give light to this by propounding a Case Suppose the severall godly parties or beleevers were equally principled for persecution or non-toleration and were equally numbred and were equally strengthened by parties of Magistracie on their side what would come forth according to such principles I sigh to consider There would be edge against edge authority against authority power against power and all the State or Kingdome involved into bloud and confusion So as we must consider things according to their principles not according to their temporary or occasionall advantages Object But you give not enough to the Magistrate Answ Yea more then any He that gives him that which God hath given him gives more then any that pretend to give him the most The pretenders that bid for the Magistrate at this time are 1. They that put him as an help and government in the Church as some viz. they of the Erastian way 2. They that make use on him but as an help to the Church extrinsecally and by way of forraigne assistance as others viz. they of the Presbyteriall way 3. They that give him power over body goods over all morall and civill behaviours of men Professors and Beleevers of what sort soever of what opinion soever as I and the rest of our Brethren do praying with all manner of supplication that under them we may lead a peaceable godly and quiet life Obj. But why dare you not ingage civill Magistracy in Religion over consciences as some others do Answ Yea in all things morally good and evill God hath ingaged them and hath set the Law and Light of nature and conscience in all people to side with them condemning and excusing what they and their Law doth condemne and excuse and thus to beare witnesse with their dominion and power But in things of pure Gospel-mystery and Evangelically good or evill I dare not ingage them whatever others doe over consciences because I give more to their just power and because I dare not draw them into such principles which hath broken more Magistracy then all the other plots and devices of men For things of Worship which are laid up in the pure simple mystery in the Light of the Spirit not of nature as all meer Gospell-mystery is to ingage the Magistrates Sword into these is rather a way to dash them against every mans conscience and so in time to lay in a fatall power or a fatall suffering We know that power which makes Kingdoms soundest in their Dominion and most lasting is the truest and wholsomest and surely that which ingages them lest into that part of the soule the conscience which can lest endure to be oppressed is the safest and most peaceable To my Reverend learned Freind M. LEY One of the Assembly of Divines at Westminster Author of a Book called The Resolution of the New Quere published by Master Saltmarsh SIR I Shall give you a publike account according to your publike charge in your leafe concerning me That I intended to make you my Censor for some Papers which I did not publish Page 1. Sir those Papers were an Answer to Master Fullers last Book and the Question about Reformation betwixt him and me being so out of all Question as Master Herle serveth and â—e as I heard being dead made me rather put up my Arrows into their Quiver then shoot them at such a mark For my contending with you in this I hope it is but as that of Paul and Barnabas and Paul and Peter a contention of Brethren not
c. And those Families the children of the Bond-woman and of the free never bearing but persecuting each other So as all of pure spirituall constitution cannot but experimentally finde a spirituall nature in themselves working them into a more glorious fellowship then that of the world The sum of the Argument If then there be two contrary natures of Spirit and Flesh if these cannot nor never could in experience of all Ageâ— and according to the truth in Scriptures and example of all there beare each other into the same spirituall society or fellowship if nature it selfe in the creatures run out into antipathies and sympathies that is into particular gatherings and separations mutuall opposings and resistings of each other when together Then spirituall and unmixt Communion and Fellowship from the world and men of the world is warrantable But all this is undeniably true to the experience of all Therefore spirituall unmixt Communion and Fellowship from the world and men of the world is warrantable II. Argument from the Power of Spirituall Ordinances and Dispensations THe Gospel-Ordinances brought into the World a power and spiritual Law in them though in degrees and measures and severall givings out as in Johns time and his Disciples in Christs owne time and his Disciples and in the Spirits time and according to these times of manifestation believers were wrought upon in Johns time they came out to the Baptism of Water in Christs and his Disciples to the preaching of the Word in the Spirits time to the Bâ—pâ—â—sme of the Spirit to a more mighty and glorious working and all these times of Gospel-manifestation had a prevailing losse and more upon the believers of these severall times in drawing them out from the World in part though weakly in Johns time it is said Then came out unto him all Judea yet though they were Baptised of him they gathered not off into such particular societies as after The Kingdome of God then was but at hand in Christs time though his preaching was powerfull yet he let out the glory of his spirit but sometimes with the Word reserving his more glorious manifestations for other times and even here though Christs preaching gathered in his Apostles and Disciples into some particular and neerer way to himselfe yet not many more nay he rather left many partly in that mixed condition of society he found them and so the Disciples Commission which was given was to preach but little yet of Church gathering but by way of Prophecy as in Matt. 16. and 18. The Kingdome of God was but yet at hand not come In the Spirits time then the Kingdome of God was come and then a mighty operation and measure of the Spirit was powred out and then the believers through the powerfull working were brought more off from the World and began to gather in closer to Christ and one another And now all power was given to Christ which was not before his Resurrection and now he sets up a Kingdome All power is given into my hands and now the Kingdom begins to be set up in the hearts and practice of believers and the Spirit to mold and cast the believers into Brotherhoods and societies and the forme of a Kingdome and now the Laws and spirituall policy are given out for ordering this Kingdome And we see how the people of God in Rome Corinth Ephesus Galatia drew off from the world in the things of the Lord. We see then how the Word did begin to worke Believers into a fellowship from the world and the more the spirit was given the more and more off from the world in all these severall times And it is a rationall truth and a clear conclusion even to meer reason that the more Christ and his Spirit is in any the more neer and close they will gather up to heaven and walkings with God and the more Christward any one is the more off still from the multitude of the world And thus the Ordinances of Jesus Christ in which the Spirit breathes so powerfully worke men off from the mixed world into fellowship with the Lord and that spirituall fellowship makes them rejoyce more in one another then in any other that are more carnall The more men live to Christ the more they dye to the world and are formed into the fellowship of his death and Resurrection The sum of the Argument If then the Ordinances and Spirit of the Lord Jesus Christ had ever a power in some degree of prevailing upon the soules of Believers according to the manifestation of the Spirit and if this Spirit flowing from God and Christ carry up the soule to God and Christ according to the measure given to those Beleevers and if the more they are carried towards Christ the more they must come off from the world Then Congregationall or Church-order wherein Beleevers are gathered into fellowship with God in Christ and one another from the world in the things of the Gospell and unmixt communion is warrantable But all this is undeniably true from the Word Therefore Church-fellowship and unmixt Communion is warrantable Argument III. IF mixed communion and society came in upon the Apostacy and falling away and Parochiall Congregations were formed up afterwards from such mixt Communion If as Antichrist prevailed so darknesse and corruption prevailed upon Beleevers If Churches were called Golden Candlesticks before and a Fellowship of Saints and the Body of Christ and Kingdom of God till they grew mixed If the mixt Congregations by Parishes came in first by Dyonisius Bishop of Rome in the yeare 267. and in England by Honorius Bishop of Canterbury and people were only made Congregations by conveniency of situation and the Law of Civill Policy If Parishes were first the seats of Popery and after the seats of Prelacy and now fall under the Presbytery in the same kind and Notion of a mixed multitude Then mixt and Parochiall Congregations are not that way and order of Christ for Ordinances which was the Primitive way revealed and practised in the Gospell But all this is undeniably true from the best Historians Therefore not mixt Communion and fellowship but pure and unmixt is the only Ordinance of Christ Now I shall leave you for the present and commend particulars unto you and the Kingdom the one A Rule of Evidences for Spirituall Communion drawn from the Scriptures the other A remarkeable passage in the Book of Vindication The Rule of Evidences for Spirituall-Communion MAtth. 15. 26. Chap. 18. 19 20. Joh. 10. 16. Acts 2. 44 46. Chap. 19. 9. Rom. 1. 7. Chap. 16. 17 18. 1 Cor. 1. 1 10. Chap. 5. 4 5 11 13. and 12. 12 13 14 20 25 27 2 Cor. 5. 6 7. Chap. 6. 14 15 16 17. Gal. 5. 9 10 12 13. Chap. 6. 16. Ephes 4. 3 4 25 Chap. 5. 1 2 11 12 21 30. Pâ—il 3. 15 16 17. 1 Thes 3. 6. 2 Thes 3. 14. 1 Tim. 6. 3 4 5. 2 Tim. 3. 5. Tit. 3.
c. were enlightned by degrees Angels who see by vision see but as God reveales much lesse men who take in Truths by spirituall reasoning as well as revelation Arise why tariest thou is a Text only for him who had such a Vision as Paul to obey by and such a Vision as Ananias had to Preach by No Church-way INDEPENDENCIE THe Beleevers for the Church-way falsly called Independents they hold on Christ for a spirituall Head on the Magistrate for their civil Head on the Body of Christ above and below in the communion of Saints here their Dependency is spirituall Ministeriall communicative not Classicall Provinciall Nationall Their power is for one another not over one another They cannot mingle or embody with those in a Way not of Truth Their separation is not from men but manners not from beleevers themselves but their practices and corruptions Nor go they out but they are called out Come out of her my people c. And thus the Jews were Independent to the Nations the Christians to the Jews the Reformed to the Papists the Non-conformists to the Prelaticall and these to the Non-conformists A spirit of Love and Meeknesse becomes Beleevers THey that write not as enemies are likely to prove better friends to the Truth because they raise not so much dust with their striving as others to blind one anothers sight Those spirits which cast men sometimes into the fire sometimes into the water are not from Christ it were happy the Lord would cast out those and let a more gospell-Gospell-spirit walke amongst us we might then sooner attaine to that of the Apostle To walke by the same rule so far as we have attained together till the Lord reveale and the stronger to beare with the weake and to please one another to edification rather then our selves in all things wherein the Lord may not be displeased in the way of his dispensation I know no advantages we have got but the reviling our selves before our enemies as well as one another And oh why do we tell it Gath and publish it in the streets of Askalon to make the uncircumcised triumph Was the Lord in the wind or in the fire or in the still small voyce when he spake to the Prophet only in the still voyce How was the Lord heard in the time of his Indignation Man heard the voyce of the Lord God walking in the garden in the coole of the day Oh! could we find out the coolest times to speake and write one to another in and not in the heat of the day as we do When a State-conscience is fully perswaded doubtfull and so sinning IT is with a Publike or State-conscience as it is a personall or particular conscience What is done must be done in Faith or else there is weaknesse doubting and sin Now where there is not a full consent and perswasion from the Word of faith there cannot be faith properly and where there is not a Word of faith for that Conscience to be grounded upon there cannot be a purely and spiritually full perswasion And one may question whether in spirituals as in Civils Votes and Voyces are to make Laws for in the Gospell we find that Divine Laws have their subsistance there without the Vote of any and that is only to be a Law or Truth in the Church and Kingdom of Saints not what is so in the coâ—mon consent or voyce but what is a Law in the very Gospell-truth of it If the Laws of truth were founded as the Laws of Civill-States in a meere Legâ—slative power then Popery hath had as good assurance as any they have had most vâ—ces most Counsels and so Arrianâ—sm when the world went after it Post-script The Testimony of Salmasius the approved German writer of the Presbyteriall way and employed by the States of Holland to write THat the Baptism in the name of the Father Son and Holy Ghost is not that way of Baptism practised by the Apostles The Baptisme of Apostolicall use and institution is in the Rivers not with invocation of the three Persons seeing the Apostles Baptized only in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ In his owne Latine thus Baptisma in aquis perennibus Apostolici instituti moris sed non invocatio Trinitatis super Baptizatum cum Apostli in solo nomine Iesu Baptizarent Salmasius in apparatu ad libros de primatu papae fol. 193. Salmasius his Testimony against the present Presbyteriall-way DUobus modis haâ— Independentia ecclesiarum accipi potest si vel respectum non habeant ad vicinas ullas ecclesias aut si non pendeant ab authoritate aliquot Ecclesiarum simul in unam Classem vel Synodum conjunctarum cujus conventus partem ipsae faciant Prior modus similior reperitur primitivae ecclesiae praxi consueâ—udini ac usui quo voluntaria haec 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 et communio inter ecclesias fuit Posterior magis convenit eum instituto quod postea juris humani dispositione introductum est Hoc posteriore modo lâ—berâ—as particularium ecclesiarium magis immmuta videtur quam priore Sed quod ab initio fuerit voluntatis postea factum est juris Et hoc jus sane positivum atque ecclesiasticum humanumque non divinum juris est quidem divini ut una siâ— ecclesia christi unitas autem ejus non gregalium aut concorporalâ—um plurium adunata collectione consistat sed in fidei ac doctrinâ— unanimi consensione Pag. 265 266 in apparatu In English thus THis Independency of Churches may be taken two waies Either as not having respect to any neighbour Churches or as not depending on the authority of â—ome Churches that are joyned in some Classis or Synod of which the Churches themselves may make a paâ—t The former way is found to be more like the practise custome and use of the Primitive Church whereby this voluntary communion was among thâ— Churches The latter way doth more agree with the institution which afterwards was introduced by a humane authority By this latter way the liberty of particular Churches seem to be lâ—sse diminished then by the former But that which from the beginning was arbitrary afterwards is made necessary as a Law This Law truly is positive and ecclesiasticall aâ—d humane not divine 'T is â—y a divine Law that the Church of Christ should be one but the unity of it doth not consist in the union oâ— collection of many that are of the â—ame flock or body but in the unanimous consent agreement in faith and doctrine Page 65 66. in apparatu FINIS THese Groanes for Liberty out of Smectymnuus his owne mouth I approve to be printed Feb. 27. 1645. IOHN BACHILER If any are ignorant who this Smectymnuus is Stephen Marshall Edmund Calamy Thomas Young can tell you Matthew Newcomen William Spurstow GROANES FOR LIBERTY PSESENTED From the Presbyterian formerly Non-conforming Brethren reputed the ablest and most learned among them in some Treatises called
as these are is this faire dealing with the State You have brought forth before Israel and the Sun many pretended sins and crimes of your Brethren Suppose they should write by your Copy and bring forth the Aslembly-sinnes the crimes of all those of your way of all the Divines and others that you take in and rake back into the ashes of their unregenerate condition keep Almanackes for the yeares and dayes of their faylings watch their haltings in all things they say or doe tell all the Stories of them they heare what would the next generation thinke of their Book and yours At this rate of writing they would not reade one honest man of all their forefathers yet this is your course and method I have done for this time and I hope all that are not inchanted with the Gorgons-head of Hereticks and Schismaticks and Church of England as your owne Smectymnians say will reade and judge I had said more to ye had you printed us more Reason and lesse Reviling and something more then Stories and Winter-tales And for our Licenser whom you so rayle at he is so much a friend to all the world of beleevers as to give them the Scripture-liberty of proving and trying all things and not to silence the Presse as some would and as the Prelates did silence the Pulpit And now let any age weighing all the differences excepting the Blasphemies c. and the nature of them nakedly without aggravations and fallacy of words bring forth a Book printed in such Letters of bloud as this Gangraena bind up all the Oxford Aulicusses the Mountagues the Pocklingtons and see if this Gangraena doe not exceed them all this is Persecution and Prelacy sublimate And for all this I would not have the Civill power drawne against you if we had all the Magistrates on our side but rather that you may in the flowings of a more heavenly spirit with your head of waters and your eyes a fountaine of teares write against your owne Book and let the world see that Men in these times are not infallible as you all conclude but may mistake their Brethren for Enemies some Truths for Errours and Zeale for Persecution as the very Jewes did when they crucified Christ as they thought for Blasphemy And some shall kill ye saith Christ and thinke they doe God good service A Parallel between the Prelacy and the Presbytery Quaere VVHether if we should reply to M. Edwards in his owne words and as Salomon saith answer him according to his c. we not compare things as followeth and trace up their proceedings into the very mystery of Prelacy 1. The Prelates were ordained Ministers by the Bishops Quaere Whether may it not be said the Divines that sit now are Ordained by the same power of Bishops to be Ministers and so by that power ordaine others 2. The Prelates when they had made Canons procured the power of the State to impose them upon all the Kingdome Quaere Whether may it not be said the Divines now get the same power to what they decree and accordingly impose them upon the Kingdome 3. The Prelates composed one great Service-booke for direction to Uniformity of worship according as they had ordered under penalties yet without the least word of Scripture to prove the truth of any thing in it Quaere Whether may it not be said Divines have composed one great Booke accordingly now for the like Uniformity viz. the Directory to be observed under fines and penalties and yet without the least word or tittle of Scripture to prove the truth of any thing in it 4. The Prelates ordered that from that Book Prayers should be read to the people Quaere Whether may it not be said the Divines now have not cast the Prayers of the Spirit into such Formes and Methods that a little invention will make them as stinted currant and legible Formes as before and accordingly read in divers places 5. The Prelates counted all that would not conforme to them Schismaticall and Hereticall Quaere Whether may it not be said the Divines now count not all so that will not be uniforme with them 6. The Prelates forbad all to Preach and Print that did not Preach and Print for their way of worship and Government Quaere Whether may it not be said the Divines now would not have all hindred from Pulpit and Presse that will not be of way of Worship and Government with them 7. The Prelates possessed themselves of the States power and favour Quaere Whether may it not be said the Divines now wholly labour after the same interest both in Parliament and other Councles 8. The Prelates had their Licensers to stop all that write against their power and pompe Quaere Whether may it not be said the Divines now labour to ingrosse the power of licensing only to themselves 9. The Prelates had for part of their Government Fines Pillories Whips Imprisonment Quaere Whether may it not be said the Divines now have those very things for part of theirs 10. The Prelates had Parishes for their Churches and Tythes for their maintenance Quaere Whether may it not be said the Divines now have the same Parishes now for Churches the same Tythes for maintenance 11. The Prelates called all other meetings but their Parish-meetings Conventicles Quaere Whether may it not be said the Divines now call the Churches and people that meet now together apart from them Conventicles as formerly 12. The Prelates called the Non-conformists factious troublers of the State Quaere Whether may it not be said the Divines now doe accordingly call any that write or oppose their Presbytery factious and State-troublers 13. The Prelates ever accused their Non-conforming Brethren to the King and Councell Quaere Whether may it not be said the Divines now accordingly accuse their Non-conforming Brethren to the Parliament and other Councels 14. The Prelates had a designe to send all their Non-conformed Brethren to strange Kingdomes as New-England Quaere Whether may it not be said the Divines now endeavour to send their Non-conforming Brethren to other places out of the Kingdome 15. The Prelates ingrossed all the Preaching and preferring Divines to all places of honour and popularity in the Kingdome to themselves Quaere Whether may it not be said the Divines now doe accordingly preferre to all places of publike trust honour and imploiment as Universities Navy Armies Garrison-Towns Counties Cities c 16. The Prelates would not suffer men whom they called Lay-men to speake of the Scriptures Quaere Whether may it not be said the Divines now doe forbid and contemne all Lay-mens gifts in the same manner 17. The Prelates would not suffer any to goe from the Parish-Minister Quaere Whether may it not be said the Divines now accordingly labour to have all keep to their Parishes 18. The Prelates called Truths which they received not New Lights Errours Quaere Whether may it not be said the Divines now accordingly call all things they
only to the old man not to him who after God is created in righteousnesse and true holinesse To the 8. Nor am Ilesse a Disputant in Divinity because against Forms of Art and Logick as you say I may dispute in Christs Schoole though refused in the Schoole of Tyrannus And if you will challenge me in any poynt of Philosophy I shall not refuse you there in Logick or Forms of Art They are Forms only for the wisdom of men not the wisdom of God Nor dare I take my discoveries of Christ from Reason nor seek the glory of him in Forms so much below him and fashion the Creator like to the Creature who is God blessed for ever You and I must die more to vaine Philosophie to the wisdom of the Greek to the rudiments of the world I allow Learning its place any where in the kingdoms of the world but not in the Kingdom of God To the 9. For my being a Vbiquitary as you say in beleefe and your proofe of this from the severall Opinions stated in my Book Can you be so unfaithfull to that Book Can you who would be counted an Orthodox and a Divine thus force and compell those Opinions upon me or not rather upon the Paper only where they were printed Because I stated the Opinions of man am I therfore a man of all those Opinions The best is the world may convince you of this and of my purpose in that And now you are thus unfaithfull in a little I may suspect you for more Are you one of those who pretend to be in the Mount with God and to give Laws for Religion Can we trust you in the more excellent mysteries of the Father while you trifie thus and deceive the Brethren To the 10. For my being an Antinomian If to say we serve not in the oldnesse of the Letter but in the newnesse of the Spirit If to say The Law was given by Moses but grace and truth by Jesus Christ If to say We are not under the Law but under Grace If to say We are delivered from our enemies that we might serve him without fearâ— in holinesse and righteousnesse If to say The Commandement is holy qust and good If to say Shall we sin that Grace may abound God forbid If this be Antinomianism I am one of that sort of Antinomians I know no other for my part though you have filled the world with a noise if this be Heresie so worship we the God of our Fathers nor have I mis-quoted any but only singled out that truth from many in one leafe before they spoyled it in the next and like Pilate who asking only what truth was would not tarry by it but departed To the 11. And for my unstablenesse If to be sometimes darknesse and now light in the Lord If to put off the old man with the former lusts and to put on the new If to come out of Babylon when the Spirit cals If to adde to faith vertue to vertue patience to patience godliness c. If to grow in the encreasings of God to a fulnesse of stature in Christ If leaving things that are behind and pressing to things that are before be unstablenesse let me be alwaies thus changing till he who can only change our vile bodies fashion me like unto his glorious body To the 12. Nor do I glory I hope in the quick dispatch of what I do but do not you as well over deliberate as I over dispatch and glory in that But are you no better acquainted with the Spirit in the things of God Are we to be ever consulting with flish and bloud did the Disciples and Brethren when they spake the Word of God tugge first amongst so many Schoole-men so many Fathers so many moderne Divines so many Commentators so many old Poets as you do Or rather only with the Word and Spirit and power of Christ and for that of your Poetrie and your Brewer I desire not to shew so much of the old-man or former corruption as to sparkle so lightly with you To the 13. For my Interposing being no delay to the Government as you say Why do you say then in other places I presented you with a former Book against M. Saltmarsh his Remora And again Mr Saltmarshs Quaere to retard the establishment I pray now be friends first with your self before you be too much an enemie to the truth or to me and though I cannot stand in the way of the establishment I am the least in my Fathers house I am but as the fliâ— upon the wheele yet truth is mighty and of that power as it can weigh heavie upon your Chariot-wheels when you would be driving into the red Sea of persecution and pursuing Israel To the 14. Whereas you say you are wished to be better imployed then in writing they are your friends indeed that wish so you cannot be worse imployed I am sure then in speaking ill of your brethren in advancing your selves in Lordino it over the heritage in tryumphing upon the vantage ground of your place and power in supplicating and at the same time judging the Magistrate or in a word intreating them that they may rule not you or your Presbytery but whom you allow them from your Presbytery And for others undertaking me as many as please for I feare not an host nor a multitude of pen-men I see more for us then against us I know this present Presbytery may have many pensioners there are such great livings of hundreds a yeers to spice the Government the silver shrines had many that cried great was Diana in the Ephesians Master Leys Treatise 1. THe subordination of Assemblies is made good by the learned Book of Mr Rutherford against the Congregationall Independency 2. The subordinate Presbyteries are not Churches out of Churches as yours are not in such singularity with free choyce more conveniencies in Parishes more for preservation of Peace more agreeable to the Apostles Acts 15. more authorized by Parliament That tythes are spoken against by those that scruple not at slander or sacriledeg that they usurp upon God and his Ministers that alienate them from his Worship and Service That Old men are more honourable then the Young therefore called Senators Elders Sages that Dreams are more glorious then Visions because of more Communion with God in the sleep then waking and because of many Divine things revealed in dreames and that John was old when he had his vision That it is lawfull to jest at mis-application of Scripture by Gods example in Gen. by Eliahs by others c. That the other Church-Government comes not under such tryals of the Parliament as Presbytery but is set up without their authority That Gospell-patternes are as much in the Letter as the Legall because written That Mr. Prinn Dr. Bastwick Mr Burton Mr Lilburne were cruelly used by the Bishops Mr Lilburne whipped from Fleet-Bridge to Westminster so cruelly
the Presbytery before ye in the Prelacy Therefore consider things 10. That these Ministers though some of them were old Non-conformists and have a power of God in them which I desire to love under any Forme yet according to their Interests they are not so nor to the flesh they are not so and it is their old man I write against not their new so far as they are men and so far as they are persecuters so far as they are lovers of gaine not of godlinesse so far as they are accusers of their Brethren so far as they are in the Forme of Godlinesse not in the power Therefore consider these men are not all spirit and truth we are not to call one of them Iubiter nor the other Mercurius They are men of like passions with us and ye and the worst I wish saving their humour of Persecution is that the Lord would make them love us in the Spirit and we shall in all love allow them their Formes To Mr. GATAKER SIR I Hope I shall answer all things materiall in your Book but your Margin I shall not meddle with I observe you commonly in all your books fill that with things and Authors of little value to Christ crucified As in your last leafe where you quote Sophecles the Poet comparing your selfe to an old prancing horse I should not rebuke your yeers but that I find you Comicall and Poeticall and for my part I am now ashamed to own those Raptures though I am young having tasted straines of a more glorious Spirit how much more you that are old and call your selfe a Divine ought not to have any fruit in those things I hope I shall be in no more passion with you than with your Brother of the Assembly Mr Ley. I write to edifie not to conquer nor to teach others but that we may be all taught of God JOHN SALTMARSH To the Author of the PLEA for the Congregationall or as he should have said Parishionall Government SIR A word to you the Author of the Plea You have so entangled and wrapped your selfe in the Congregationall and Church-principles as if you meant to engage me at once against your Presbytery and the dissenting Brethren But that Spirit which makes me oppose you makes me discerne your designe and so I hope I shall single you from them though you have cloathed your selfe in their Apologeticall Narration yet I must deale with you as your self and your Brethren not as theirs and it is but a little I have to say to you But why no Name Is your Divine Right so questionable that you will not own it or are you one of them that sit too neare it to commend it with open face and think you may better and more modestly do it in disguise and without a name Had I not some reason to suspect it came from some of that sort I had passed it by with as little noise as it came abroad And I have but little to say to you now I cannot stand long wrangling in things that grow clearer and clearer every day for the day breaks and the shadowes flie away SHADOWES FLYING AWAY Or A Reply to Master Gataker's Answer to some passages in Master Saltmarsh his Booke of FREE-GRACE Master Gataker 1 THat he was traduced by one Master John Saltmarsh a man unknown to him save by one or two Pamphlets as witnessing to the Antinomian party 2 That he must unbowell and lay open some of the unsound stuffe 3 That some think they have found out a shorter cut to Heaven 4 That my inferences upon his words are not true nor as he intended As if a Protestant with a Papist disputing about the Masse should say the Controversie is not concerning the nature of Sacraments c. Answ To the first that you were traduced by me Let not you and I be judge of that both our Books are abroad and I have quoted your words to the very leafe where they are Your meaning I could not come at the deep things of the heart are out of the power of anothers quotation For my selfe unknown to you but by two Pamphlets I take your sleighting I could call your Treatises by a worse name then Treatises for I knew one of them some yeers since that of Lâ—ts wherein you defended Cards and Dice-playing And it had been happy for others as well as my selfe in my times of vanity had you printed a Retractation I beleeve you strengthened the hands of many to sin I know you love ancient Writers well by your Margin and quotations And I pray remember how Augustine honoured Truth as much by confessing Errours as professing Truths What fruit should you and I have of these things whereof we are now ashamed For your witnessing to the Antinomian party against your will Is that your fault or mine Nor am I to judge of your reserves and secret senses but of words and writings Nor is it an Antinomian party I alleadge you to countenance but a Party falsly traduced and supposed so a Party called Antinomian by you and others and then writ against A setting up Hereticks to deceive the world and then telling the world such and such are the men You may make more by this trick then you find so To the Second that you will lay open the unsound stuffe I shall not be unwilling I hope to be told my failings but I must look to the stuffe you bring in the roome of mine and entreat others to trye the soundnesse of yours It is not my saying that mine is sound will make it better nor your saying it is unsound can make it worse Let every ones work be proved and then he shall have whereof to boast To your Third of some finding out a shorter cut to Heaven then some former Divines I know not what you meane by shorter cuts The Papists find a way they say to Heaven by works some Protestants by Jesus Christ and works and others by Jesus Christ alone and make works the praise of that Free grace in Jesus Christ And is that a shorter cut then theirs as you call it or rather a clearer revelation of Truth Methinks you expressions have too much of that which Solomon cals frowardnesse in old men Argue and prove and bring Scripture as long as you please but be not too quarrelsome But I shall excuse you in part because you tell us you are not yet recovered from sicknesse so as I take this with other of your Books as part or remainders of your disease rather then your judgement and the infirmity of your body not the strength of your spirit But why chose you not a better time to trie Truth in when you were not so much in the body To the Fourth That nothing lesse was intended by you I undertook not to discover your intents to the world You might have don well to have revealed your selfe more at first that I might not have taken you to be more a friend to Truth
godlinesse Whether all your Fastings and Repentance were from true meltings of heart sound humiliation or because the State called for it and constrained it Whether your praying and preaching was not much of it Self of Invention of Parts of Art of Learning of seeking praise from man Oh should the light of the Spirit come in clearnesse and glory upon your spirit Oh! how much of Self of Hypocrisie of Vanity of Flesh of Corruption would appeare how would all be unprofitable For my part I cannot be so uncharitable but to wish you a better assurance then what you and your Brethren can find in your own works or righteousnesse For it is not what we approve but what God approves is accepted And I am perswaded however you are now loth it may be to lose reputation by going out of an old track of Divinity as Luther once yet when once your spirit begins to be unclothed of forms of darknesse and art of self-righteousnesse and that you with open face behold the glory of the Lord you will cry out Wo is me I am undone for I have seen the Lord and Lord depart from me for I am a sinfull creature and What went I out to see My owne unrighteousnesse or rather A Reed shaken with the winde An Answer to a Book intituled A Plea for Congregationall Government or A Defence of the Assemblies Petition c. YOu write thus 1 That the independents confesse you a true Church and Minstery 2 Those that are ordained by Bishops may be true Ministers else how am I a Preacher or they true Ministers 3 Succession is not necessary to the essence of a true Ministery 4 If no true Ministery no true Baptisme 5 Must not there be persons ordaining and persons ordained And so the dissenting Brethren hold 6 That you abuse the Assembly in citing their Humble Advice touching the Divine Right of a Congregationall Presbyteriall and not of the other The Independents assort a Divine Right there and in Synods too as they do They hold a Divine Right in one as well as the other 7 Their ordination by Bishops though it should be null yet they have all you can alleadge necessary to a Preacher 8 Parishes here are but as in New-England as in Jerusalem Antioch 9 Some of the dissenting Brethren hold Synods an holy Ordinance of God and this Assembly so to be 10 If no Presbyteries must be of Divine Right because not infallibly gifted this concludes against Presbyteries and Ordinances 11 If you would have them content with a mixed power partly prudentiall because of their mixt dnointing you contradict that pure one you plead for 12 The Apostles and Elders and Angels of the Churches of Asia were not infallible as in divers practices 13 To say the Apostles did advise in place of the written Word is little lesse then Blasphemy 14 The Presbyterians in France and Scotland and the Netherlands do not so imbroyle Kingdoms The feare of excommunicating Parliaments and Kingdoms is but a Bugbeare 15 They aske not of the State an Ecclesiasticall-power but a liberty to exercise that power 16 Hath Christâ— said that in a sound Church Church-Officers shall excommunicate and in an nnsound the Magistrate shall do it 17 He may in time say as much against Equity and justice living upon voyces in Assemblies as against Truth Answer To the first That the Independents confesse you a true Chruch and Ministery You are not to prove what others confesse or hold you to be but what you are indeed according to Truth Nor do I contend with those that hold you so but with you that hold your selves so as the Spirit to the Laodiceans Thou sayest thou art full c. and behold thou art poore c. To the second That they ordained by Bishops are true Ministers as the Independents and I a Preacher for all that Ordination If you meane that the Bishops Ordination makes not one for ever a false or Antichristian Minister I grant it because it is no marke to them that renounce it Babylon is no more Babylon to them that are gone out of it But what is this to your Ministery or Ordination who are yet under the Marke and Babylonish Ordination Renounce it come out as the Spirit cals ye and then your being Antichristian is no more to ye then to the Ephesians that they should be lesse light because they were once darknesse or lesse alive because they were once dead To the third That Succession is not necessary to a true Ministery It is both true and false in severall acceptions When there was a true power they ordained others and others them There was succession But that being lost under Antichrist so far as visibly to derive it to us there can be no such true visible Succession appearing And yet you that pretend to stand by the first power must prove your Succession if you will prove your power To the Fourth If no true Ministery no true Baptism For that as you please I dare not exalt the truth of your Baptism above that of your Ministery no more then you To the Fifth The dissenting Brethren hold there must be persons ordaining and ordained as well as we Yeâ— but do they hold Bishops ordaining and Presbyters ordained by Bishops and Presbyters of their ordaining ordaining others as you do To the Sixth of my unjust citing the Assemblies Modell or Humble Advice and that there is no more Divine Right asserted in the Congregationall Presbytery then in the Classicall c. which is done so by the dissenting Brethren I answer Let the Modell be printed to the world to end the difference betwixt you and me And for the Divine Right of the one and the other I am of your mind they are able to prove both alike of Divine Right that is in their Presbytery The one is no more of Divine Right then the other and neither of them of any And for the dissenting Brethren it is not them but you I deale with Why come you under their shadow in a storme and yet will let them have no liberty under yours but would turne us all abroad as Hereticks and Schismaticks To the Seventh Though the Ordination by Bishops be null yet they have the other necessaries to a Preacher Will ye undertake for the Assembly they shall stand to this that all their former Ordination by Bishops is null If so we are agreed if not all their other necessaries are no more then Ahabs peace What peace saith Jehu so long as the whoredoms of thy mother Iezebell are alive So what Ministery so long as the whoredoms of Babylon yet remaine To the Eighth That the Parishes are but as in New-England as in Ierusalem c. I pray forbeare this it is too manifest an errour Are the Parishes of England and Churches of Ierusalm one and the same so discipled so constituted Were all of Ierusalem and Antioch reckoned for Christs Congregations as all Parishes are To the Ninth
in the spirit under the Gospell we worship now in spirit and in truth not by representations as under the Law And therefore it is that the Gospell-Ordinances are so few so plaine and poore to the eye that the soule may not be taken up with the signe but with things spirituall And we may observe that as little as can be of outward elements are made use on as in Baptisme meere water and in the Supper Wine and Bread and the first Ordinance is called the Baptisme of the Spirit not of water and the Bread and Wine The Communion of the Body and of the Bloud of Christ not Bread and Wine And faith the Apostle If we have known Christ after the flesh henceforth know we have no more And further What is it that is said of grace comming in by the eye This is the way the Papists let in Christ having made the eye rather the Organ for conversion then the eare Now Faith commeth by hearing and therefore all their Idolatrous Pictures their Imagery and theabicall representations are all for the eye and bringing in Christ by Obtick or sense and making conversion to be by perspective and working only an historicall faith And further What is it that is said of working grace by the eye As if the carnall part could advantage conversion by any power there but such a power as is meerly carnall and naturall What can all these signes of the Lord Iesus doe upon a blinde soul as all unregenerate men are What are the glorious colours to him that hath no eyes to see The signes of bread and wine are given for working symbolically or by signe upon a soule or understanding spiritually enlightened before and having a discerning and therefore it is that the Apostle saith He that eats and drinks unworthily eats and drinks damnation to himself not discerning the Lords Body which if the Supper had been a converting Ordinance the Apostle would not have charged the unworthy from receiving but rather have encouraged them in their receiving that of unworthy they might have been made worthy But you see he cals for a right discerning of the Lords Body first which cannot be a calling of the unregenerate or unconverted to a partaking because they have no right discerning of the Body of Christ but by the sense first converted Vindication Fol. 44. 1. That the most humbling melting soul-changing sin-purging mollifying meditations of all others are from Christs death and passion c. and therefore c. 2. Afflictions and corporall punishments are converting Ordinances therefore c. 3. That unworthy participating is a meanes of spirituall hardening and so by the rule of contraries a worthy receiving an instrument of conversion 4. All the ends of it are as appeares so spirituall see his Scriptures that how is it possible it should not be Gods intention and Christs Ordination to be a converting Ordination 5. Conversion is a turning of the whole man unto love obedience of God in Christ from the love of the world c. and what engine more powerfull for the forecited respects or spirituall ends 6. Experience in every Christians conscience whose preparations and approaches to this Sacrament were the first effectuall means of their conversion yea they had not been converted if debarred from it Inference We may inferre upon the first That there are soul-melting meditations in a soul unconverted or unmelted and that there are soul-changing meditations in a soul unchanged which the Scriptures never speak on such waies of conversion are no waies in the Word that we read on but hidden paths for the spirit of mans devising Secondly that because afflictions are therefore Sacraments are that is because one thing is therefore another thing is This is but the Old Argument But God may sanctifie any thing at his own pleasure to make way for Conversion and yet that no instituted Ordinance for conversion neither Because some have been converted when afflicted when sick when poor therefore will you first go afflict them and make them sick and poore taking all they have from them that you may convert them and so make them standing Ordinances Thirdly Is a rule of contraries a rule in the Scriptures or in Logick But it is said Worthy receiving is an instrument of Conversion that is Conversion is a meanes of Conversion who can receive worthily till in Christ till converted 4. But all the ends of it are spirituall and how is it possible but then it should convert This How is it possible is like that of Why should it not both of one strength to prove it for though the ends be never so spirituall yet if there be no warrant for any such institution as conversion all the reasons extrinsecall or strange consequences as all such are cannot institute an Ordinance none but God and Christ and therefore the Popish Arguments built upon such forreigne and externall though rationall consequences are not immediate nor intrinsecall enough to warrant any thing of their will-worship 5. But â—â— is a powerfull engine Yea but only for what it is instituted and oâ—dained nor is it lesse excellent because it converts not because every thing is beautifull in its order and place and law of creation 6 But the experiences of Chrictians witnesse who had never been converted if not at the Sacrament But what Christians are these What kind of experiences are these I question the truth of all such conversion who have only such experience as this because that such experience crosses the Word and way of the Spirit and those are no right experiences which are not Scripture-experiences But some had not been converted if debarred from it This is a strange assertion against that of the Word The spirit bloweth where and when it listeâ—â— and some are called at one houre of the day some at another and how is it cleare that the Sacrament converted such or not some other act of the Word at that time or about it Shew me that Christian among so many that can evidence his act of conversion meerely barely singly immediately from the act of communicating and then there is something proved to justifie an experience of Conversion at such a time but still not to justifie the Sacrament an Ordinance-Conversion and so to be used Vindication Fol. 46. Is any Master or Parent so unnaturall and sottish to deny his children or servant wholesome meat to feed their bodies And shall any Minister be so irrationall or inconsiderate in denying the spirituall food Inference Whence we may inferre That the Vindication takes all unconverted persons by this comparison to be alive and spiritually quickned or else it were as he sayes unnaturall sottish irrationall to give them food And if they be unconverted as he pleads for then who is so unnaturall sottish irrational or inconsiderate as to give them any Men onely hold forth food to the living and not to the dead Vindication Fol. 46. Physitians had an errour to deny drink
take heed we forget not him who is greater then the Temple for one greater then the Temple is here It would be spiritually considered that while we strive for the Vessels and Cups we spill not the Wine And it ought to be so carried by all of us that because we are so much in opinion we may not be thought to place Religion there as I feare too many do making a Christ of the very Ordinance of Christ and pressing some outward Ordinances of the Gospell so legally as some hearing such a power of Salvation put into them and finding an outward dispensation more easily got then the spirituall make haste thither only and then sit down as saved under a meere outward Ordinance The Lord grant that we may neither undervalue an Ordinance nor the least Institution of Iesus Christ nor raise it up into a Iesus Christ and set up the Law above or beside the Law-giver We must now learne to know Iesus Christ lesse after the flesh and not to embody salvation in a meer outward dispensation and so incarnate Iesus Christ over again from the glory and spirituality he is in Brethren farewell For my part I am fully assured from Scriptures of the Church of Christ here or Gospell-fellowship of the Saints and unto this fellowship with the Father and the Son I endeavour and I have one way to reveale Truth to me which I cannot conceale nor yet cannot practice as I would and that is this To see Truth by living in the power of Truth and by first obtaning Jesus Christ to live in us in the power of his suffering death and Resurrection for surely Jesus Christ must do all though more gloriously and spiritually over again in his which he did in himselfe If Jesus Christ the Light be in us the light by which every outward dispensation is seen will flow in for where the Sun is there will be every beame with it THE CONTENTS A way of Peace or a Designe for Reconciliation 1 GOds Love the first and last glorious Vâ—ion to be considered to draw us to Vnity Page 1 2 Names of Sect and Division to be laid down p. 2 3 Passions and Railings forborn Ibid. 4 Reviling each other for infirmities forborn Ib. 5 The sins of any not to be laid on the Cause Ib. 6 Liberty for Printing and Speaking Ibid. 7 Let all subscribe their names to what they Print Ibid. 8 Let all be severally accountable pag. 3 9 Free Debates and open conferences Ibid. 10 Let us call Beleevers though of severall Opinions if the name of Brethren cannot be justly allowed Ib. 11 No Beleevers to esteem too highly of themselves for what they attain to Ibid. 12 No assuming infallibility over each other p. 4 13 No civill power drawn into advantages Ib. 14 Tendernesse in offending each other in things of an outward nature Ibid. 15 Severall Opinions from the Gospels first discovery yet all beleevers p. 5 16 No despising for too much Learning or too little Ibid. 17 We be one in Christ though divers Ibid. 18 The Spirituall Persecution to be forborn Ib. The Unwarrantable Way of Peace or the Antichristian Design for Reconciliation TO beleeve as the Church or Councils p. 6 â—o set up oâ—e as the Pope for Infallibility Ib. To allow that all may be saved in their severall wayes p. 7 To forbid Interpretings and Disputes Ibid. By a compuâ—sive power Ibid. The Opinions of these times â— Resbytery so called what it is and what they hold p. 8 â—ceptions against Presbytery p. 9. â— dependency so called what it is and what they hold Ibid. â—ceptions against Independency p. 10 â—abapâ—isme so called what it is and what they hold p. 12 Exceptions against the grounds of the new Baptism Ibid. Seeking or Seekers so called what their Way is and what they hold p. 16 Exceptions against them Ibid. Conclusion p. 19 The Gospell or New Testament proved undeniably to be the very Word of God p. 20 One Argument from the Nationall Covenant Art 1 and 2. for Liberty of Conscience p. 23 Objections against it answered p. 25 26 Spirituall Principles drawn forth of the Controversie GOspell-truth one and the same p. 60 Prudence and Consequences are the great Engines of Will-worship Ibid. The People are Brethren and Saints in Christs Church but in Antichrists Parishioners and servants p. 61 Presbytery it self is founded on Principles of Separation which yet they condemn for Schism in other Churchesâ—ay is the greatest Separation p. 62 None to be forced under Christs Kingdom as in the Kingdomes of the world Ibid. The power of a formall Reformation in a Government makes it not Christs Government p. 63 The visible Church or Communion is the Image of the invisible or mysticall p. 64 How Christ is a King of the Nations and of the Church and how an Head Ibid. The Presbyteriall Government and the Worlds of the same equall Dominion p. 65 The Nationall and Congregationall Church-covenant both lawfull or both unlawfull Ibid. We receive and give out Truth by parts p. 66 All Coveâ—anâ—ers are bound to contribute to Religion as well as State p. 67 We are to try Truth and so receive it in its degrees p. 67 No Church-way Independency p. 68 A spirit of Love and Meeknes becomes Beleevers Ib. When a State-conscience is fully pâ—rswaded doubtfull and so sinning Ibid. A Post-script with Salmasius his Testimony against the present Presbyteriall way p. 69 A WAY OF PEACE OR A Designe of Reconciliation How the Beleevers of severall Opinions scandalously called Presbyterians Independents Anabaptists Seekers may be reconciled to forbeare one another 1 Gods love the first and last glorious Vnion to be considered to draw us to Vnity ONe way is to consider love as it is in God and flowing from him upon the creature God is love and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God and God in him Now the more love there is in any the more of God there is in any Satan the first fountaine of sin made the first Schisme in the glorious Communion All was one and in one glory till the first division and till Satan fell like lightening and he envying the whole Creation which was in love with it self and him that made it drew it into sin and antipathies and mutuall persecutions and when it began to leave loving him that was pure and infinite love it began to hate it self and divide from it self So as the lesse love the more of Satan and sin The consideration of Gods love to himself which is infinite of his love to his which is no lesse infinite because to sinners and of his Sons love spiritually uniting himself here and gloriously hereafter into one Body and Communion cannot but make us love one another 2 Names of Sects and Division to be laid down Let all names and notes of distinction taken up by way of scandall and reproach be laid down and forborn names and notions are like Standards
gifts which it alwaies had and they are joyned both in the Word and practice as in Heb. 6. 1. Doctrine of Baptisms and Laying on of hands and in their practice they were joyned as in act Act. 8. 14. 15 16. And it will appeare in the Word that the Apostles did not so reckon of them single but together as in Act. 8. 14 15 16. where it is said they were only Baptized in the Name of the Lord Jesus but they prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Ghost So as Baptism by water and by the Holy Ghost being joyned together both in Institution Doctrine and Practice are not to be separated nor given in such a time wherein that of the Holy Ghost is not given For what God hath joyned together let no man put asunder 11. That it is as unreasonable to take any such Ordinance of Jesus Christ from any that is not distinctly specially spiritually powerfully enabled as the first dispensers as it is to take the word of any common man charging us in the name of the Parliament and cannot visibly make out a visible Excellency and Supremacy of power by Ordinance or Commission 12. That these Churches who enjoy Christs mind as they think most fully in the practice oâ— Ordinances yet have no greater gifts in their Churches then there are in those called Independent or Separatist Prayer Teaching Prophesying being as fully and powerfully performed in the one as the other And being so Whether must not the Churches of Christ be distinguished by some more visible glorious power and gifts as at first by which they may be discerned to excell all other Societies 13. That the fulnesse of time is not yet come for Ordinances For as there were severall seasons for the givings out of Truth before so now Seeking or Seekers So called What their Way is and what they hold THat there is no Church nor Ordinances yet That if they did not end with the Primitive or Apostles times yet they are to begin as in the Primitive times with gifts and miracles and that there is as much reason for the like gifts to make out the Truth of any of the Gospell now to an Antichristian estate as formerly to a Jewish or Heathenish That such a Belever as can dispence Ordinances must be qualified as the Beleevers in Mark 16. and as the former Disciples were That there is a time and fulnesse for the Spirit and for the latter pure spirituall dispensations as there was formerly for the first dispensations And whether this shall be while the Angels are but powring out their Vials or not or when Babilon is fallen And whether there is not as much need for new Tongues to reveale the pure Origionall to us it being conveyed with corruptions and additionals in Translations by which Truth may be more purely discovered and the waters of Life that now run muddily may flow more cleare and Crystal-like from the Throne of God The Exceptions 1. THat Jesus Christ did promise to be ever with his Church and therefore cannot be reasonably presumed to leave them without Church and Ordinances 2. That if Scriptures were not so pure and cleere to us as the Word of Life were not sufficiently there God were lesse gracious to us now under Grace and Christ come in the flesh then before to the Jews who gave them a Book of the Law which remained with them to the coming of the Messiah 3. That such gifts and miracles were rather for bringing the Word into the world and for glorifying Christs first coming in the flesh then for after 4. That if we must have miracles to make us beleeve and not beleeve any truth till then we must have for every Truth as well as for one or two a miracle to give it evidence and so there must be a continuall and new miracle working for every new beleeving 5. If there must be miracles for beleeving Truth is not of that excellent nature that it seems for if it be not able to make it selfe evident and cast a native and spirituall f shine or brightnesse upon that soule it comes into it is but weake dark and insufficient 6. If Truth be not discernable in it self by its own glorious lightsome nature by beames from it self it is of a worse condition then many things below as the Sun and Stars and Candles c. which bring that light in their own nature and dispensation by which they are discerned 7. If every Truth be a became of Christ the truth then every beame hath light in it selfe because it streams from the fountaine of light and so is discernable 8. That it is more glorious to take evidences from the Spirit then from any thing without which can at the farthest of it self but convince the outward man 9. That all shall now in the last times be in a secret invisible inward spirituall glory no more in grosse carnall visible evidences and materiall beams as gifts miracles And this is to know Christ no more after the flesh 10. No miracles can in their own nature make one beleeve without a spirituall conviction from the Spirit of Christ going along with it so as we see when miracles were wrought some beleeved and some beleeved not So as then there is no such reason for miracles as pretended because that conviction which comes from the Spirit through the work of a miracle may come by any other instrumentall or originall way Or it is a more glorious operation by how much more single or by way of immediate revelation it works 11. To beleeve meerly by the Spirit is far more glorious then by any other outward means though never so outwardly glorious by how much the Spirit is more excellent then any thing else by so much more divine and spirituall are the impressions of it 12. That when miracles are wrought yet a pretender may work a miracle for the contrary like the Sorcerers of Egypt against Moses and Antichrist is spoken on rather to come with signes and wonders of the two then Christ So as here shall be a losse to any that think to beleeve meerly by miracle So as the Spirit is that which must make us beleeve beyond all the power of miracle which can give out its power but upon the sense at farthest being meerly outward and visible 13. That there is no such power for Ordinances as is pretended but Beleevers as Disciples may administer and so did the Apostles and Beleevers formerly as they were Disciples 14. That the Scriptures of the Gospell or New Testament are of such a divine and even Spirituall glory in the Letter as no other word There is a power to discover the reason and secrets of the heart which the reason and heart of man witnesses unto There is a power to convince and accase and terrifie and comfort clearly and undeniably and
experementally known 15. These Scriptures we have as they are do make a Discovery of such a way of Religion as reason never yet in any age attained to The men of purest reason as your old Philosophers never attained further then the knowledge of something infinite which they did not know and a Religion of humane or morall righteousnesse and purity and some sacrifices of atonement c. And there is not any Religion in the world Jewish or Turkish but they are made up of carnall principles and are founded upon reason and nature but this Gospell Religion hath opened a new way of righteousnesse in one that is both God and Man in a most rationall though infinite way of salvation and a way of Worship crosse to all methods and wates of reason and the world opening new waies by a new Spirit purifying naturall reason into more divine and glorious notions then ever it yet attained bringing in a way of beleeving and placing a Religion upon a spirituall perswasion called Faith which is more proportionable to an infinite God and an infinite way and depth of salvation then reason ever invented viz. for the soule to beleeve upon one even Jesus Christ in whom God hath laid up all love and fulnesse and so for man to become one with him who is God and Man and there cannot be a more rationall way for man to become one with God then by one who is both God and Man 16. That though there be not such glorious powrings out of Spirit and such gifts as Beleevers both may and shall have yet all Beleevers ought to practice so far of the outward Ordinance as is clearly revealed they may 17. That the Scriptures or Gospell of the New Testament being as many hundred years old as from the Apostles even in that Originall we have them no very materiall differences in Copies as it seems and though they have passed through the great Apostacy yet they have not had the power to corrupt them materially in their Originall to advantage their heresies and corruptions which very constant preservation of Truth in the midst of the very Enemies of Truth is both a constant and standing miracle of it selfe and so we need not stay for a Ministery with miracle being we have a Word with miracle which in its matter subject power speaking of God of his Son God and Man of his Spirit the Actor in man from both by waies of outward Ordinances of the depths windings and workings of reason c. is of as much efficacy to perswade as any thing else we can have and the way of the pure Spirit is a more glorious way of operation then any other of a visible sensuall nature And God may be more glorified by quickning and spiritualizing a word and using the spiritually glorious Ministery of that then of man and they are far too low who look for their originall teaching from man and not from the Word and Spirit CONCLUSION I Have drawne out this map of each opinion that your eye may travell over that in an houre which otherwise you might be a yeare in going over Thus each are discovered in a narrow yet full Discovery and I thinke all that are divinely rationall will see no such cause to thinke that each hath attained so far that either they should presume in their degree or look down from the pinacle of an infallibilitie upon each other I have set the strength and weaknes of each opinion before it self that on the one side as it may glory so on the other side it may fear and be humble All I wish now is that we be all so far one at least in infirmity and this Common weaknesse as may be a ground of Common embodying and associating against the Common Enemy or Grand Antichrist as in States when they are at lowest have least factions and when weakest are most peaceable with one another The Gospell or New Testament of JESUS CHRIST proved undeniably to be the very Word of God without Miracles to assure us of the particular duties in it Because there are some men now of more reason then sound belief I cannot but in a spirituall rationally way beare witnesse to our salvation in the written Word 1. IF there were not a Word or Will of God revealed in Lawes and Ordinances written God were worse provided then the Lawgivers of Nations and Kingdomes and the World were left to their owne wils which is esteemed ridiculous in the eyes of all the Nations of the world in their very politick condition 2. The Laws and Ordinances contained in the Word or New Testament beare only the Image of a God in their holinesse purity righteousnesse glory infinitenesse eternity immortality which are all with many more things of like excellency there which are as the beams of light to the Sun or so many things of God revealing God 3. The Word is so tempered into a middle nature betwixt God and man as no Word can be more revealing the most glorious spirituall infinite things from a God in a meane literall figurative comparative significative way to man 4. To have a standing Word as the Gospell is is more for the glory and authority of a God then any ministry of man though with miracles and signs because such a Word where none can joyn themselves as Authors or Parties as in other wayes of dispensation by men men may joyne themselves doth undoubtedly hold forth most of God and of divine Authority and thus to maintaine or preserve a Law or Word in the world is not so much with God as for King and Princes to maintaine Statutes and Lawes in their Kingdomes 5. A Word as the New Testament is may be as well a way and dispensation to an infinite God to make out himself by as any other either of dreame or vision or Revelation or Oracle all being but wayes of a naturall straine and condition no more then the Word 6. The very manner of dispensation or writing is such as hath the authority power wisedome counsels of a God the whole businesse of it being a work discovered to be begun by God and amongst men to let forth the glory of God the mercy love and wisdome of God and the way by the Son of God and Spirit of God and all to be glorified with God and thus treating only of things divine and a work divine in a way divine 7. We must either give up our selves to this Word wholly or not at all and then let the world and experience judge what kind of Religion reason at large unbounded or unenlightened will bring forth by the former paterns of Heathenish and Gentilish Religion 8. Why should it not be thought the most clean and direct way for God to manifest himself to man by Word Gospell and Epistle and so by an infinite and invisible power and hand commend and conveigh it from age to age from generation to generation as well as for men to make out
their art reason knowledge experience into books and words written to their owne and other generations 9. This Gospell of Iesus Christ places Religion upon a more glorious transcendent way to sute with an infinite God then ever any device of man or reason could invent viz. upon faith upon a beleeving or spirituall perswasion wrought by the same God by which men are carried out into depths of infinitenesse and glory no way measurable nor discernable but by this way of beleeving and there could never have been an engine contrived which could have gone from man into God but this of faith by God himself nor more for the advantage of the glory of a God taking all from the creature employing it wholly upon a God 10. There is more reason in this Gospell or New Testament in the way of Religion which it holds forth by Iesus Christ then ever could be thought on by the reason of man as for instance Each mans internall conscience hath a light or law in it which condemnes or accuseth for murther c. Now if there be accusations against whom is the offence committed but against somthing infinite and what way is there more divinely rationall to apply to the justice of such an infinite being on God offended but by one who is both man and God even Iesus Christ So as the mystery of salvation is such as even reason it self cannot contradict or gainsay though it cannot comprehend to leave the world inexcusable in their unbeliefe because it commands them to beleeve in one whom in reason they cannot deny to be a way proportionable betwixt God and themselve for salvation 11. It carries things in such a rare way of mercy of justice of love of piety and as it is a salvation from God to man so it is a salvation managed by one who is God and Man and every thing belonging to it is accordingly mixed or tempered of Word and Spirit of power divine and outward dispensation or ordinance and all this for man who is of a mixed nature of flesh and spirit Thus things are carried in a way of proportion and sutablenesse so full so sutable and compleat and serviceable as the invention of men could never devise 12. It discovers reason to it self in all its workings and wayes in its purity and corruption in its vertues and vices conscience bearing witnesse to the Laws and Commandements of it it purifies and spiritualizeth reason and brings it into such a way of communion with God as the souls that reade it and are exercised in it seem to be new-borne to receive in another nature an immortall and incorruptible seed 13. It manages all the designe of salvation contrary to nature and the world upon contrary principles dispensations and hands by a Person poore humble and crucified for the good by Ministers and Dispensers meane and contemptible Fisher-men Tradesmen c. yet inspired by graces contrary as selfe-deniall humility love to enemies by conditions contrary as weaknesse affliction poverty suffering dying carrying a treasure a comfort a riches a life a glory under all these 14. It is accompanied by continued or standing miracles though miracles of a more spirituall nature as discovery of the counsels and hearts of men as conversion from sin mortification of sin changing natures from evill to good planting in new dispositions inclinations affections into the soul Now if such charges and conversions were in materiall or sensible things as from water to bloud from water to wine how would it astonish Which in spirituals in more wonderfull though only lesse discernable and not to be so sensibly perceived preserved by its very enemies the Roman cruelty of Emperours and Antichristian Traditions 15. It refers the discovery of all Truth in it self to the Spirit of God which no word but the Word of God would do and will not take in men into glory with it self which miracles do which are done by the hand and ministry of man and the Spirit in this way must needs be a more glorious Interpreter of the Will of God then the meer ministery by man and miracles can be by how much it is of a more spirituall nature and it is more excellent to seek things in the Spirit then in any outward dispensation which as it comes more immediately from God so it comes in more immediately upon men and to take in Truth by sense and sight or miracle is rather to know Christ after the flesh 16. Yet after all the Word it self is the best way to bring in evidence and discovery in its 〈◊〉 half to the souls of those that will come under the power â—peâ—atâ—on and experiments of it under the enlightening convictions impressions of it in the reading hearing and meditating of it These things are written that ye may beleeve And they that are thus exercised are above all miracle and are perswaded enough by it self without the help of an outward work 17. To these I adde the testimonies of the most ancient in witnesse of it Dionysius Areopagita thought to live in the times of the Apostles and not daring to take his Divinity any where but from these Scriptures Irenaeus who was in the yeare 180 affirming the fulnesse of these Gospell-Scriptures and accounted them the Pillar of Truth So Tertullian who lived 1400 years since doth accordingly witnesse to their perfection Origen Athanasius Chrysostome Constantine the Great in the first Nicene-Councell with thousands others all along to our own age 18. The Iewes whose very Testament and condition answers to every Prophesie and Gospel-Scripture 19. The many of those most eminently ancient learned and godly who have shed their bloud in testimony of it 20. The power of God going along with it 21. The Confessions of the most learned in that confesse that the Originall Copies are not corrupted but continued pure One Argument from the Nationall Covenant for Liberty of Conscience yet with all subordinate and just obedience to the State ART I. THe first Branch of the Covenant is That we shall sincerely really and constantly c. endeavour c. the Reformation of Religion in the Kingdoms of England c. in Doctrine Worship Discipline and Government according to the Word of God c. ART II. The second Branch of the Covenant That we shall in like manner without respect of persons endeavour the extirpation of Popery c. Superstition Heresie Schism c. and whatsoever shall be found contrary to sound Doctrine c. Now from these I argue 1. Each one is personally and individually bound by the Covenant and in his owne proper conscience is obliged to endeavour a Reformation according to the Word of God and so far to the example of the best Reformed Churches as they are agreeable to that Word I hope no further Now who shall be the Iudge and Interpreter of this Word of God to each mans conscience in the things of God but he who is Lord of the conscience
of Enemies for I thinke you would oppose Truth no more then my selfe but we both may be said to contend rather for the Truth then against it and rather with one anothers reason then with Truth In this Controversie you have much advantage of learning and experience but there is a Spirit and the inspiration of the Almighty which enlightens the young man and the old Elihu as well as Job or his Friends Your other advantages are the Magistrate whom you have more on your side we only are more on the Magistrates side then they are on ours yet we cannot but say and blesse the Lord for them they are so far on ours as we lead a peaceable and quiet life under them Your other advantage is an Assembly of learned Divines yet not so wholy yours the way of Truth we stand for hath a Party there and I hope when the vaile of prejudice is taken away and Truth is brought home to their soules in its nakednesse power and evidence by a power more spirituall then is yet given out from Heaven out Party there will be greater I willingly presume so much of them I have laboured that a Spirit of love and meeknesse might run through all my Reply unto you though in my travelling over your Paper I have met with some things in the way too sharp and your way hath more Briars and Thorns in it then you promised in your first leafe I had much ado not to be provoked by how much your promise had removed all offence on your part from my expectation If you find any passions in my Book charge them on my unregenerate part for I find that when I would do good evill is present with me You see my labours deducting the time of their Printing are of about two weeks growth younger by some sixe weeks if I mistake not then yours I hope where you could not expect much you will not look for more then I here return you in this time Sir I salute you in the Lord and with all due respects to your self your age your learning I begin my Discourse with you and the Lord let me see the failings on my part while I seek to discover those on yours that I may take out the beame from my own eye as well as the more from yours You desired me in your Book to enter upon away of Peace and I have accordingly presented my Modell to be perfected and refined by any that will set upon the work I do not love in any thing I write to fume out meerly in Controversie but in something if it may be to edification I rest Your Friend in the Lord JOHN SALTMARSH THE SMOKE IN THE TEMPLE Wherein is the Vindication of the new QUERE From Master Ley's RESOLUTION Master Ley's Resolution Page 2 3. I Put a Question Whether he were an Independent or no He told me He was not but that he had a latitude of charity for them of that way Since that I had a glimpse more of his inclination by his Dawning of Light but a full discovery of his mind in his Book The Opening of M. Pryâ—â—s Vindication I will not entertaine him as an enemy To give him his due in all that I have seen set forth in his name I find him rather opinionative then passionate Reply Your Question was accordingly put by you and accordingly answered by me And for my appearing for Truth not all at once in my Treatises you may see I was not hasty to beleeve nor to write in the behalfe of a Truth before I saw it nor to plunge my selfe into any Way till I had examined it The Apostles waited for the full revelation of all Truth by the Spirits comming The Bereans searched daily to see whether the things were so or no. Apollos preached not Christ clearly till he was instructed in the way of God more perfectly We are bidden to try the spirits and prove all things So as I appeared in those degrees but by Scripture warrant And I could name to you examples of another sort Augustine Luther both finding truth but in degrees and the latter sweetly acknowledging how he was enlightened by beam after beam Angels who lie more naked towards God and take in the things they know by way of Vision yet see not any of that will of God which gives Laws to them but as he reveales Much lesse such as we who dwell in houses of clay and whose foundations are in the dust and who come by the sight of things discoursively and by spirituall reasoning God giving in the revelation of his Truths in a naturall yet supernaturall way But for that Notion of Independency you speake on I dare not owne it because I account my selfe both under a spirituall and civill Supremacy under Jesus Christ and the Magistrate severally and exempt from neither We are not of those that despise Governments and speak evill of Dignities nor are we under any such singular Notion that I know on to be called Independents c. We all hold of the Body of Christ and of the Communion of Saints below and we hold one upon another but not one over another We dare not be Classicall Provinciall Nationall these are no formes of wholsome words to which we are commanded nor know we any such power but that of Brethren and Ministery and fellowship We dare not take out a Copy either from the States of the world or the State of Israel to obey or rule by under the Gospell And if you can the Churches or Christ Independent for this we must suffer till the Lord bring forth our righteousnesse as the noon-day Yet this you and we both know that when Truth would not embody or mingle at any time with corruptions it had presently the name of Sect Schisme Faction all which are implyed in the name Independency put upon it Thus were the Reformed Nations of England Germany France c. scandalized by Popish Writers and the old Nonconformists by the Prelaticall the Jews formerly by the Nations the Christians by the Jews We have heard enough of Independency and Presbytery such notes of distinction are now become names of reproach and so I lay them downe And whereas you say you will not entertaine me as an enemy It is more likely then in the end both you and I may prove a better friend to the Truth It is possible many in this Age might have seen more had they not east so much dust in one anothers eyes by their strivings It were well such a Gospell spirit would walke more abroad and that spirit which casts men sometimes into the fire and sometimes into the water were not so stirring Well since you will be no enemy to me I shall not I hope contend with you though I dare not but contend earnestly for the Truth And the Truth it self which I write for may I hope at length find you no more an enemy to it then you are to me I cannot
it self mix with Religion where Churches are Nationall And how can I speake properly but to both where both are in interest For my suggestion of a suspition of haste you know words and phrases are not the same to all one may interpret thus another thus I had no thought of Jehu's driving as you imply when I wrote I must lay the supposed crime at your owne doors for it is none of mine nor have I nor any reason to tax that Honourable Senate whose Counsels are grave and serious and deliberate Had I lookt for Jehu I should have lookt to another coast and quarter where they drive more furiously Why deale you not more candidly Why are you not more faithfull in your interpretation to the Originall For that of my taxing the Ministers for desiring power none have reason to speak but the guilty it concernes not the innocent It is not strange for some Ministers to affect Government or rather ruling we have so much of Prelacie yet left and working in the Countrey with us and if not in the City too I refer you to Master Coleman For the word rendred from the Originall metaphorically I quoted only the Text to my remembrance to the Printers hand and how he came by the metaphor I know not but I find fault as well as you However to make the best of it now translations of Scripture are not all Grammaticall as you know nor to the letter as I could wish them with you For Artificiall Colours or Rhetorioall c. You make me guilty of such vernish as I have not laid on to my knowledge nor have much to lay on if I would Truth and Peace which were my subjects are faire enough of themselves without any colour of mine And I desire not to bring forth either but in the evidence and demonstration of the spirit and if there be any thing of their own beauty there call it not artificiall put not suspitions and jealousies into any that such things as they see are not so to make men Sceptâ—call It is as much injury to Truth and Peace to misreport them as to counterfeit them And for your logicall marshalling my reasons I thank you you took more pains with them then I would doe Notionall order I received them in Nor dare I be too logicall and notionall in things divine Systems and formes of art have done our Divinity some harm Such Classes and methods of reason have been found too strait for the more spirituall enlargements of truth Yet I honour your Learning though I thus speake Master Ley's Resolution Page 9 10. His first reason taken from Rules of Faith Rom. 4. 3 13 c. Now he should have planted his reason directly against the imposing a Government rather then obedience to it as thus c. Those that set up a Government which they are not fully perswaded on sin But they that now set up Church-Government with power c. doe set up a Government whereof they are not fully perswaded on Therefore in so doing they sin The major is true but the minor not because of their faithfull learned Counsellors and Scripture-discussings Reply Since you will help me to prove you are welcome You have furnished me with one Argument more You are a fair enemy to lend out your own weapon And now you have made your Argument half for me I shall make the other half my self You say What the imposers of Government cannot doe in Faith is sin This is your half Argument But you take it for granted Our imposers of Government are not such but such as are fully perswaded and can set up the Government in faith and you prove it thus from those of their Counsellors so near them and from their Scripture-discussions First I know not what Counsellors you mean but they are too wise a Senate to be carried by any interest but their owne and I wish them no other Counsellors then Truth and Peace nor doe I know that they are so fully perswaded of any such Government I beleeve some of them are not so fully principled for your way and then they all are not perswaded so of the Government nor have you yet been able to make out the evidence of every truth you presented them from cleare Scriptures saving your Art of deductions and consequences and prudence and if all cannot be perswaded that State-conscience or Publike conscience is not so wholly nor fully perswaded then as you imply a State or Publike conscience is like a Particular conscience which if it doth not wholly consent is doubtfull or weake for it is not in Spirituall things as in Civill Votes of major parts make laws and they stand good from any such forms of Policie but I never yet saw that rule in the Gospell for any such proceedings in spirituall things but that is a Law in Christs Kingdome not that which is voted so but that which is so in the truth of it For else Popery were the best for it hath most voices and counsels So as unlesse you can prove the Parliament to be of one minde in it how can you prove a Parliament so fully perswaded in minde as you imply Let them prove a Truth by most voices that please or can but I wish the businesse of a State-conscience in a thing of this nature were more enquired into then yet it hath been But if the Parliament were fully perswaded of the truth of the Government yet there would be a new question yea and is very learnedly discussed by our worthy Brethren Master Coleman and the Commissioner how they could be perswaded of the imposing and power of setling For my part if there must be an imposing of Government for I would have the State-consciences left to their liberty as well as Particular and yet Truth to have the liberty of accesse unto them I would have the power of the Parliament laid up there we have had too sad experience when it hath been given out from thence and trusted too far Paul referred himselfe thither I stand saies he at Cesar's Judgement-seat rather then to the Councell of the Priests and Elders Christ had more favour from Pilate a Roman Governor then from Caiaphas the Priest One word more How can the Parliament properly be said to be fully perswaded c. unlesse they could freely signe it with a Jus divinum or divine Right Nothing but Scripture and the Word can properly fully perswade Now if they cannot find so much Scripture as to warrant it for Christ's Goverment how can there be a purely Gospell-warrantable a full perswasion or faith where there wants a word of faith to secure it And now I shall forme your Argument you halfe made to my hand thus and return another with usury Your Argument is this Those that set up a Government which they cannot be fully perswaded on cannot but sin But the Parliament cannot be fully perswaded of this Government Therefore if they set it up they cannot but
Pastors I write against but the way There may be a Moses in Pharaohs Court a Ioseph in Poâ—phar's house a Cornelius or devout man though out of the Church a Luther even in Rome till the Lord enlighten So as government and discipline is a Churches right and priviledge not the worlds and Nations priviledges as so and then Where are all your quoted Texts which are applied Surely that of Corinth is the Churches and that of Ezekiel and Proverbs makes not for the discipline of a Church at all Master Ley's Resolution Page 16 17. He makes a comparison betwixt materiall and spirituall buildings as stone and timber should not be clapt together in the one soone in the other 1. Similitudes may illustrate but not prove any thing 2. Conformity betwixt materiall and spirituall things is not to be carried too far 3. In materiall buildings or the Temple there is not only squared stones but peeces and rubbish which have their use not so in the spirituall all things there are homogeneall and square and living stones c. 4. Those that he accounts rough and unsquared are in some conformity though not so polished as others 5. The best stones are not to be taken from the rest to make up a building by themselves as in seperated Congregations 6. Let him shew any such example in the New Testament where when there was a mixture of holy and prophane as in Corinth i Cor. 11. 21. the Apostles gathered out the holy part 7. That of Axes and Hammers hath a mysterious truth in it but not to his purpose viz. That the spirituall building is built of the soft and secret whispers and motions of the spirit Reply To that of the similitudes I fully agree with you they illustrate better then they prove To that of not carrying a conformity betwixt materials and spirituals too high I agree with you in that too yet not so fully for Iesus Christ the great Prophet of the Gospell preached the glory of the Kingdome in materiall comparisons in salt water leven mustard-seed sowers husbandmen vines vineyards c. To that of spirituall buildings which you say are to be made up only of squared living stones I agree with you and here the controversie might be ended If your Temples shall be of living stones the controversie is granted But because I will not seem to mistake you I beleeve the spirituall building you mean and I are not the same here You mean as it appears the invisible spirituall or Church mysticall and yet there all is not so Homogeneall and of the same kind neither The head of the body is both God and man and one member like one star differs from another in glory But we are speaking of the spirituall building or Church here which is the Image of the Church above and as that is of true reall essentially spirituall living stones so the Church below is to consist at least of such as visibly and formally appeare so and therefore the Apostle cals them in his Epistles Saints and called to be Saints And to that of your peeces of Rubbish in the materiall building It is true But what is that to Salomons Temple which my comparison drives up to How much Rubbish can you prove in that type nay square stones pure Cedar gold c. to figure out the Gospell-building or Temple as in Heb. 9. So as your rubbish is only in your owne allusion not in mine To that of your unpolished stones in your Parishes which may fit the Temple now I answer It must be then only such a building as the materiall one you speake on which is made up of rubbish and broken peeces and if that be according to Christs patern let these Scriptures in the margin with many more determine And for their submitting indeed there is a nationall blinde traditionall obedience in them I cannot call it Gospell submission To that of the best stones not to be taken out to make up a building I answer I am sure we are to take in no ill unhewne unpolished and the Scripture cautions and practise are cleare c. then judge you what the stones must be Nor doe we so picke and chuse as if all stones were to be square alike or equally polished that is not in any materiall building Though we would take in no rubbish yet we take in stores differently squared As in the body one member differs from another the eye and hand and foot c. and members lesse honourable 1 Cor. 12. so in the body of the Church every one according to his measure and as every one hath received Nor do we stand so for the first polishing as you pretend You make as if we set up such degrees of perfection as were only the degrees of the invisible or mysticall body when it is meerly in the degrees of visible Gospell-perfection By this you would make the carnall to abhor and the weaker to stumble and be offended as if the doore of our Churches were not open for any such whom you imply were of a temper meerly Spirituall and of a size of our owne not the Scriptures Let the doores of our Churches be as strait as you imply I am sure your doors are set open or rather cast off the hinges but a pure Gospel-entrance is neither too wide nor too narrow We know there is smoaking flax and bruised reeds measures of grace If they can willingly submit to Iesus Christ their Law-giver and walk as members of the body here they may receive polishing and have honour and building up and many other degrees of perfection which the Saints of God obtaine when they are in fellowship with the Father and the Son To that of your challenge that I should shew any such example in the New â—â—stament of taking out the best when there was a mixture of holy and prophane I answer Those were Gospel-Churches gathered by the Word and Spirit into Gospel-fellowship and when you make your Parishes to appeare such Churches then I shall tell you more till then I suspend your challenge The world and an Antichristian Nation are both under Christs fan for gathering them out To that of a mysterious truth you speak on in the Axes and Hammers I agree with you in that and because of the mystery I therefore quoted it And whereas you summe up all the mystery into the soft whisperings and motions of the Spirit you can hardly warrant us or secure us that your interpretation is the whole mind of the Spirit and that very interpretation of yours is part of it the very same I aime at viz. to shew how the Gospel-building is softly gathered and made up by the Ministery of the Word and Spirit and not with Axes and Hammers tools of a compulsive forcing sharp and authoritative nature as c. Master Ley's Resolution Page 17 18 19. For that of his c. whore he makes Christs description of himself c. to be against the establishment
debarre it for over I answer Yea forever would I debarre a government not clear from the Word and not one haire would I debarre a government that had the name of Christ in Scripture-letters engraven upon it pure Gospell-principles and proceedings To your other That a new-star is to prepare for a misguider and your story of Barchochebas upon it it hath more light somnesse then light in it But why should you be so pleasant with my expression of truth by a Star It is the very allegory of the Spirit Christ cals himselfe the morning star the light which springs from above The Spirit is called the day-star arising in our hearts and the Spouse is attired in a crown of twelve stars Nor do I call to any to look for a new created star of truth but an old yet new appearing star to us one of those stars in the Gospell-firmament which the Clouds of Tradition and Ignorance hinder us from seeing And now what of your story But what way is most likely to mislead That which b 〈…〉 you prove and try all things and accordingly follow or that which saith This is the way compell them to come in not only as the Gospell compels in the Parable by a Spirit of power but by a civill power not a power of word only but of State too and so tw-sting the Gospell with the Law and humane authority with divine Master Ley's Resolution pag. 27 28 29. To his other prudent all rule which is That he makes the Civill and Ecclesiasticall power so linked that if there be motions in the one there will be no quietnesse in the other I answer 1. He aimes at the perpetuall prohibition not at a temporall forbearance only He carries it on so as if we must allow him the authority of a Politick Dictator 2. What if they reciprocate interests must the Civill State leave every man or Congregation to be governed Judg. 17.6 3. Because disturbances are communicated therefore the Civill State ought to settle the Ecclesiasticall that it may enjoy its own peace theâ—olleration â—olleration of the Protestants of France Henry the fourth being a Protestant though a revolter and recovering his rights by the arms of Protestants he could do no lesse in humanity then allow them their Religion though now tollerated because the trust est friends to the Crown of France For that of the State being most free where the conscience is least straitned If free in indulgence to all Religions he complies with the Author of The Bloudy Tenet If free from commotions experience in severall Ages and Countries prove the contrary For that of his Parable of the Teares and the Wheat If there must be such mixtures tollerated what warrant have they to pluck the Wheat from the Tares nay Wheat from Wheat in their now gathering Churches Reply You prove against my reason the compliance and nearnesse of the Civill and Ecclesiasticall power occasioning motions in each other 1. By the authority I assume of a Politick Dictator But what doth my assuming prove against the complyaney and motions of the two Powers This is no proofe against the two Powers of Church and State but against use I hope you conceive not they are concentred in me a private Divine as you call me nor would I give any thing out in way or Magistrality but evidence you and I and Assemblies of men are not infallible 2. By my aiming at the perpetuall prohibition But what doth this prove against the compliancy and motions in the two powers This is still against me not against my reason And further because I suggest a reason of not embodying the Civill and Ecclesiasticall Powers too suddenly therefore saith he I aime a 〈…〉 perpetuall prohibition How doth this follow I aime to prohibit it rebus sic stantibus therefore for ever I aime to prohibit it because as yet neither the Discipline appears to be all Christs nor the Parishes fit matter for Churches therefore I prohibit it for ever Is this good reasoning They that do over-desire the enjoying any thing do measure time by eternity and weeks by Ages and take a little deferring for everlasting Why is his Charets saith Siferah's mother so long in comming 3. Because they reciprocate Interests therefore is every Congregation to be left at liberty Yea at liberty in Spiritualls and not as they will but as the Gospell perswades the will Yea and because they reciprocate Interests therefore to be left at liberty say you Rather because they reciprocate Interests to be cautious how they mingle and incorporate Interests too soon And if any just liberty may arise to the people of God from such State-pauses why not such a liberty Should the Churches be ever persecuted and have no rest It was not so under the first Persecution Then had the Churches rest Because say you disturbances are communicated therefore settle the Ecclesiasticall that the civill may enjoy peace But can you secure the Civill from the Ecclesiasticall in peace ought you to have a State-being or a Church-being first Is this good reasoning Because disturbances are communicated therefore order it so that the Civill may be within the Line of communication or of Ecclesiasticall disturbances by clasping and incorporating them together So as it follows better thus Because they reciprocate Interests therefore take heed how you establish because the State cannot but establish a way something of its own in the Ecclesiasticall To that of Henry the fourth's humanity which you presse because the Protestants helpt him by arms I answer Let but the same humanity be copied out by the State here and presse for it here as you do there and we are agreed Surely you have the same and greater ingagements Your Brethren whom you call Schismeticks and Hereticks have not been sparing of Arms and Bloud in the high places of the field and in a Cause more glorious with successe more admirable with courage as gallant And sure they have been found as trusty friends to this State as the Protestants to the State of France You say That State is rather free in indulgence as the Bloudy Tenet then free from commotions c. For the freedome contended for by The bloudy Tenet when I undertake to prove his freedom at large then put us together till when deale fairly I could as easily draw something of yours under the Line of Prelacie but I would not force any mans notions much lesse yours You see of what stamp the Liberty is I contend for And for Commotions let the world judge if all the broyles and combustions kindled not from the Coales on the Alia and from the flame of an Ecclesiasticall Interest such as you contend for For that of the Tares and Wheat c. where you charge us with mixture tollerated or rather with plucking up Wheat from the Tares c. in Church-gathering I answer We tollerate no mixture but in the world where Christ himselfe tollerates as in the same Paâ—able not
in the Church And for our plucking it is not plucking but gathering and calling out Your words are of more violence then the Word will beare that is more properly plucking which is a destructive pulling out a bloudy Separation a plucking of Persecution such a plucking as some contend for and would requite our gathering with plucking and take us all not for a mixture of Tares and Wheat but all for Tares You say we gather out the Wheat it is well you observe that we have Wheat amongst us which some of your Brethren will searce allow us and you very hardly Master Ley's Resolution pag. 29 30 31. His other politike consideration is this Our Parties or dissenting Brethren now together and clasped by Interest c. I answer 1. No clasping in the Camp must loose us to division in the Citie 2. Mr. Saltmarsh in his Politike adviseth to represse factions c. 3. The delay hath occasioned a multiplication of Heresies and Schisms 4. Many disposed to division heighten their spirits to contumacie and contempt To that other of his it is possible while time is given opinions may be sooner at peace I answer 1. Possibility is no pleae against probability nay cleare experience that by the Brethrens amiable carriage they have driven on their designe with a politike activitie and gained more by their adversaries slownesse than the goodnesse of their cause To that of his Fire let alone under wood and so to dye out c. I answer 1. Will fire under drie wood quench it selfe or the setling of a Government be as the Bellows 2. The contrarie is plaine by examples of Anabaptists and other Sectaries in Germany whom Luther at first mediated for with Frederick Duke of Saxony but after he was glad to stir up the Princes and people of Germany for extinguishing a common combustion To that of his c. The contentions of Brethren are like the Bars of a Caestle Prov. 18. 19. I answer 1. This is his seale to his politike Aphorisaâ— But will the bars of a Caestle be taken by letting alone We have not found it so in our wars c. Reply To your first That we must not claspe in the Camp and divide in the city You say well we are to agree or clasp both in Camp and Citie and to divide in neither To your second Mr. Saltmarsh in his Politikes I told you before I dare not allow my selfe the priviledge of an Aphorism of light then when it was rather night than day with me as I told you You know Pauls regenerate part or law of his mind quarrelled with the law of his Members so doth mine so Luther Augustine c. To that of delaying occasioning Heresies Whether may not your setling things thus be as great an Heresie as you complaine against Be sparing You may call these Truths which you now call Heresies Paul preached that Doctrine after which before he destroyed To that of many heightning their spirits into contempt Do not aggravate against your Brethren remember your own professed ingenuity in these words I would not excite Authority to needlesse severitie To that of the Brethrens politike advantage on your slow pace and amicable carriage as you say Give not over your amicablenesse for that their policie is no warrant against your dutie and if they be politike blame them in print For my part I hate to see in any too much of man in the businesse of God but if some of the Brethren be politike what is that to the rest who waite for the Spirit in the simplicity of their own But it may be you mistake the advantages and put their encreasing upon Brethrens policie which is the power of the Gospell You know in Christs time many beleeved on him and the people went after him and yet not policie but his power gathered them To that of your fire and drie wood and that your setling a Government would be no bellows Who are the dry wood you meane and what fire and what by the bellows I fit be this that the setling a Government will quench our contentions yea and it may quench more then it ought even something of the Spirit may be quenched by it Persecution may put out many a Candle of the Lords lighting and many a coale kindled from his Altar But take heed there be not more fire in the bellows then in the wood To that of the Anabaptists and Sectaries quenched by Luthers mediation I dare not beleeve your Historian nor take all against them from the Pen of an enemie He that takes the Parliaments battells from an Oxford Pen shall read nothing but Rebellion rather than Religion And me thinks I observe much here in your observation to the contrary We may rather think that Germany is a field of bloud to this day for shedding the bloud of so many consciences for some points of difference And for Luthers mediation against them Look well and tell me how much the Lutheran there have advanced in the Reformation Have they not rather stood like Joshua's Sun where he left them Let England take warning by Germany To that of the Brethrens contentions which are like bars of a Castle and must not then be let alone you say as in our Wars Yea go on take these offended Brethren these Castles in your military way but then let your Warfare be spirituall your weapons not carnall put on the armour of light c. and take them by a Gospel-siege and we are satisfied But it you take them with the power of the Magistrate with swords and staves as they took Christ if you come in this Gospel-Controversie to to take them as the Parliament takes in their Towns and Cities by force of Arms and compulsive Artillery as your instance seems to imply take heed lest you shed more spirituall bloud to that under the Altar that never ceases to cry How long Lord how long Master Ley's Resolution Page 32. To that he saith We have not yet any experience of our new Clergy Answ How can there bee experience of them if there be no government to try them withall Reply So as you will have an hazard run both in State and Church for a new experiment upon the Ministers but sure your Statists will tell you it is not safe trying experiments with State they are too vast bodies for that What thinke you of that Physician that will cast his Patent into a disease to try a cure on him You know the old morall adagie Turpius ejicitur quam non admittitur hospes One is sooner kept out then cast out Master Ley's Resolution Page 32. To that It is not safe trusting a power too far into those hands Answer He need not much feare the government will be so qualified so disposed for the persons that manage it c. Reply These are faire promises It is pitty that government should ever be set up that cannot tell before hand how well it will carry it selfe Oh I
We are not of those that speake evill of dâ—gâ—iâ—ies or despâ—se government unlesse you count your Presbyterie to be that government and dignitie spoken on by the Spirit and that remaines to be proved That which cannot be proved to be a Scripture-government cannot challenge a Scripture-law to defend or secure it You say If the Byas run most towards government it is but as it should be Yea if towards a Scripture-government else it is as it should not be and not as it should be You say The Bishops government 's put down some must be set up and that is Presbytery But there is one set up already a civill Parliament arie government and will you set up another above that or cordinate with that Will you set up one government to rule another or tutour another And must you needs set up as large a Dominion as the eivâ—ll Power hath Must our Presbytery be full as ample as high and supream as our Parliament Will no lesse territory or Kingdom serve it but all England Whole Nations Must Christs government be just as broad and long as the worlds You find not the golden Read for the Temple of that length Now Reader judg which government affects Dominion Which brings in whole Nations under the Scepter of it Poore Scripture-government can be content to sit down in a Village To the Church in thy house saith the Spirit In a City as Corinth and over but a few there the Saints only in fellowship to the Church in Corinth In a Countrey not over a Countrey so the seven Churches in Asia not to the Church of Asia or the Church Asia a Church taking in halfe part of the world Sure if Christ would have had such a Nationall compreliensive Church he could have converted King and Princes first and they should have given up their Scepterâ— and Kingdoms to Jesus Christ in the way of a Presbyterian Nay it ought to have been so Jesus Christ was bound in the way of righteousnesse to have be un the practice and modellâ— to us over whole Kingdoms having not left it in precept in the whole Gospell and we ought either to have had practice or precept to order and command us in what we obey You say If other Truths be set by it is by those that so oppose Government and not by the Presbyteriall I see the Presbytery must be in no fault Happy men that have nothing but Truth on their side You wish I had more caution in my mind and paper and â— shorter Refutation had served Cautions are not amisse both for you and me and I think you had need of more caution of the two by how much more vast and nationall the Government is you manage You that put yokes upon whole Nations in a day had need to have the cautions of a yeers provision laid in before hand And for your Refutation of my paper do not beare witnesse of yourâ—selfe let Truth judge bet wixt us and let the Reader pray for a spirit of discerning to judge both what is Truth and which is Truth that which you or I affirme Nor will I say I have made here a Refutation of yours If I have done well What have I that I have not received And if I have not the Lord enlighten and enable me to refute my selfe Master Ley's Resolution pag. 36 37 38. To that of his that the matteriall Temple was more clearly left and known then the Gospell paterne c. Answer 1. He would not be thought to side with Sanballat and Tobijah and so endeavours to shew some considerable difference 2. If it beâ—toâ— soon now for the Government will he set a time for it when it will be seasonable or will he have it stay till it be a matter all building or till we have inspired Prophets 3. It cannot be of too quick dispatch if we set it up by the dictates of the Holy Ghost in the New Testament nor the determination sudden if after consideration with Scriptures with the best Divines and collation of the exactest paterns after long debates in the Assembly of Divines where the dissenting and liberty to object and lastly received by Parliament 4. By the builders speciall regard hath been had to Jesus Christ for Foundation c. And now by Master Saltmarsh his consent the work may go on c. Reply You say I would not seem to side with Sanballat and Tobljah You say true I would not But every building is not Temple-work And though I would not with knowledge hinder the Temple of the living God yet if another kind of frame were in building I would do my best to hinder and be no Sanballat neither But they are Sanballats not whom man but whom the Lord counts so But surely they hinder more that set up another kind of Temple then Christs then he that advises to look well that all be right and Temple-worke that is set up To the difference I made of the materiall and Gospell-paterns you say nothing and that is the only considerable It may be as you said by me you are best able to deale with the other You say I should set a time then for the setting it up Yea I shall set you a time yet not in mine own authority but Christ's When your Patern is all Gospell and your people all qualified in that Gospellpatern then is my time for setting up and then is Christ's time too Nor would I stay you for a materiall building as you say You know I call you on to the Gospell I am very far from turning you back to the Law I call you on to Christ I would not turn you back to Solomon And for the inspired Prophets you tell me I stay for and would have you stay too Is not that a very Gospell-way to stay for the Spirit 's coming into the servants of the Lord Take heed of denying inspired Disciples You know it is part of the fâ—lâ—illing of the great Prophecie Acts 2. Indeed some of the Prelates many of them being uninspired themselves and having little of the Spirit or none would needs say therefore All inspirations and Spirituall enlightnings c. were ended in the Church because ended in them and because they were so carnall themselves they thought none was Spirituall And you remember how they made Laws even against the Spirit in Prayer I speake thus only to remember you who spoke most against inspiration and the Spirit lest you may let fall some words which may be taken up by some of that way to countenance them in their Invectives Not but that I esteem of you as one inspired your selfe in a measure and having the Spirit of God in you therefore I know the Spirit will be very tender in opposing the Spirit You say you ought to dispatch the Government because you have followed the dictates of the Holy Ghost of the Assembly and Parliament Then let me put one Question Why is it not called Christs Government Why
peace doe meet together nay they are so much one as there is even a truth in peace He that was Truth it self could say My Peace I leave with you But What of the contention spoken on of the Fathers and â—â— c. If there be any quarrelling for Truth either by the Fathers or us but in a Gospel-way we are not excusable neither doth Christ speak of truths drawing swords but of swords drawn against truth which is no Argument for you When Peter would draw a sword in the defence of truth Christ bid him put it up So far is he against your way of defending truth You say By whom should Magistrates be set on and that you cannot speak in such disparaging words By whom be set on By the legislative power by the Parliament The Parliament can set on their respective Committees Iustices c. and is this any disparagement I speak of subordinate Magistrates not of the supream You say There will be worke for the Magistrate enough to punish the contumacious c. That is in English the Presbytery will keep the Magistracy doing and now who disparages the Magistrate Who set them on work Who makes them their Deputy-punishers Nay Who is the Satan to whom the excommunicate are delivered It is an expression not much besides your principles and who disparages the Magistrate in that Master Ley's Resolution Page 41 42. To that of Truth being otherwise armed from Heaven I answer We thinke it not meet to divide the subservient means from the supreme power nor the exercise of Discipline from his assistance who can make it effectuall the sword of God and Gideon To that of the imputation of jealousie c. There is a godly jealousie which would set up as many securities as may be against Heresie and impiety The faulty jealousie is theirs that would stiffle the Government but there is a fear which we professe of Gods anger for connivance and communion with hereticall men c. There is in some an aversenesse to Heresie in a trne zeal and love of God There be many other causes of jealousie but I will take but that one of the Lords and Commons p. 43. If Master Saltmarsh â—ad well considered who were engaged c. he would not have undervalued their piety and prudence to compare them with Papists and Prelates I will conclude with a peece of his own politick advice c. Vpon such principles is Church-Government ordained for his Text out of the Revelation Rev. 18. 1. As he began so he ends with mis-application of Scripture Reply You say you cannot divide Discipline from his assistance who can make it effectuall That is from the Magistrates This is a signe without further Argument that you do not hold your government for Christs because it cannot be effectuall of it self without help from below and the world and to another power then its own nor is the sword of God and Gideon any faire and just proof for joyning Presbytery and Magistracy it joynes only God and the Magistrates You say Your godly jealousie will set up as many securities as may be But then they are warrantable and Gospel-wayes of security That is no godly jealousie which sets up other wayes as Herod killing all the children to secure his Kingdome David dissembling to escape Iacob to get a blessing there is jealousie but no godly jealousie nor warrantable security So to secure any way though of truth by a power not allowed on in the Gospell as no such compulsive power is in your way is not to be jealous with a godly jealousie though I deny not but some of those may be godly who are so jealous but not in that You say that some fear Gods anger for their communion with Hereticks c. You know all such feare is only warrantable in the Church not in the world It is not so with the Nations now as with the Iews Now if we have not communion with them in the Nation we must goe out of the world But What communion is this you meane that will bring Gods anger You have your liberty to withdraw to separate as they from you If it be nationall or civill communion then you pluck up the tares before the time of harvest But whom you esteem Hereticks they it may be think they have as good Scriptures to esteem you so and this is Heretick for Hereticks interpretation against interpretation And since there is only a sufficiency but no infallibility now as before since there is no Apostles for interpretation as at first for Revelation why do we thus cry out Hereticks Hereticks the Sword the Sword Let me put one Question here Suppose those you call Hereticks were of equall number to you and both of you equally numbred with Magistrates and both of you equally principled for persecution and both equally calling out for the Magistrates Sword What clashing of swords would there be What edge against edge What authority against authority What power against power What bloudy doings What sad workings What confusion would there be This is an Image of your Incorporation of your two powers that you so plead for in this kind If we were equally principled and armed for persecution as you are and acted by your spirit Ah what a Kingdome would here be You say Some have aversenesse to Heresie in a true zeale to God These are but generall notions of Heresie Every thing is not Heresie that is called so And for true zeal to God in that aversenesse all this is granted if that be Heresie indeed But how if it be such a zeal as Paul saith the â—ewes had a zeal but not according to knowledge how if it be such a zeal to God as crucified the Sonne of God and such a zeal there hath been we know The Iews did much in zeal to Truth even against Truth But you close up with that of the Lords and Commons in an Ordinance c. I am afraid these are such proofs as you intend most in your Presbytery to make your supplement to Scripture from Authority and so to make us beleeve what you cannot perswade us to beleeve and to make it out by an Ordinance what you want by Scripture But I hope that honourable Senate will rather let you argue from the Scripture against us then from their Authority But I have not to doe here with answering Ordinances of Parliament I contend not but submit to them in every Ordinance for the Lords sake nor doth my Argument lie against any thing of theirs but yours I dare not undervalue them to count them as Parties but Iudges in out difference I appeal to the Parliament as to Caesar nor in it a faire proofe of Truth to draw the Magistrates Sword out of the Scabbard You say You wonder considering who was ingaged I would so undervalue them to compare them with Papists and Prelates I did consider who was ingaged a Parliament c. and had I not highly valued
will have a body sutable pure Not only is the visible body of Christ thus pure but every truth of Christ bears the Image of Christ every truth of his hath something of himself in it who is Truth it self I am the Truth saith Christ every beam of light is light every truth is a sparkle of truth it self Thus we may judge of truth by what of Christ we see in it They who break a Chrystall may see their face in every peâ—â—e and parcell so in every thing of Christ there is an Image of Christ either of his purity or holinesse or love or humility or meeknesse c. The Presbyteriall Government and the Worlds of the same equall Dominion VVHat kind of Church-government is that which will set up it selfe with the Civill and State-government even co-ordinate with it if not to the ruling and tutoring of it which hath as large a Dominion as the other which is as full as ample as high and as supream which no lesse territorie then a Kingdome will serve then a whole Nation Muâ—â— Christs Government be just as large as the worlds which Government affects Dominion which brings in whole Nations under the Scepter of it This or that little one in the Scripture which sits downe sometimes in a house to the Church in thy house sometimes in a City as Corinth and over a few there to the Church in Corinth in a Countrey not over a Countrey to the seven Churches in Asia not to the Church of Asia or the Church Asia a Church a fourth part of the world Sure if this Nationall and comprehensive Church were the patern we should walk by Why did not Christ begin first at Kings and Princes and so bring Nations and Kingdomes and make Churches of them But we see no such thing he begins lower at the base and weake and foolish and few and raises up his Kingdome from the bottome of the world and not from the top or pinacle of Princes Kingdomes and Nations The Nationall and Congregationall Church-covenant both lawfull or both unlawfull HOw can a Church-covenant be unlawfull if the Nationall-covenant be warrantable and why doe any plead against that who are for this A Covenant is condemned in the Congregationall Church and yet commended in the Nationall Now How can a Church-covenant be both true and false Is a great Church-covenant lawfull and a little one unlawfull a Nationall Church-covenant warrantable and a Congregationall unwarrantable But Covenantâ— in their nature were a dispensation more of the Olâ— Testamenâ— strain a Nationall Church had a Covenant to gather them up into their Nationall way of worship and were under the Laws of an externall Pedagogâ—â— and now the spirituall dispensation being come even the Gospell of Iesus Christ there is a fulnesse of spirit let out upon the Saints and people of God which gather them up more closely spiritually and cordally then the power of any former dispeâ—sation could the very Covenant of God himself of which the former were typicall and Propheticall comes in nakedly upon the spirits of his and drawes them in and is a law upon their inward parts sweetly compelling in the consciences with power and yet not with force with compulsion and yet with consent and surely where this Covenant of God hath its kindly and spirituall operation there would need no such externall supplement as before but because of the hardnesse of our hearts it is thus from the beginning it was not so the spirit tyed up thousands together then Let States then have any prudentiall security any designe of sound wisdome to consoraâ—e people together but let the Church only be gathered up by a Law of a more glorious and transcendent nature by the pure Covenant of God himselâ— with the souls of his We receive and give out Truth by parts MEn are to be judged and followed according to the degrees of light they receive and if any have some light that light is not to be used as an advantage to all their other darknesse as if all their darknesse might passe under that one beame of light The light rises upon the Prophets as the Sun upon the Earth it is dawning and morning and noon with them Thus came the Gospell Iohn preached Repentance Iesus Christ Faith and Repentance Iohn came with Water Christ with the Spirit and first in Parables and after in power the Apostles they knew first Christ for Messiah then that he should suffer and die and rise againe and then the Kingdome of God Luther knew first that Indulgences were unwarrantable and after that Popery was Antichristianism and Rome was Babylon and works could not justifie and after conscience was not to be compelled in spirituals Thus we grow from Faith to Faith to the fulnesse of stature in Christ to a perfect man in him growing with the increasings of God The Kingdome of God is like a little leven like a grain of mustard seed So as while we see but things in degrees we are neither to be too sudenly admired by others nor our selves All Covenanters are bound to contribute to Religion as well as State VVHosoever hath Covenanted is bound to assist the Publike to his utmost in every Condition and Calling and Place and Way accordingly from naturall abilities to his relations from one relation to another even to all to that of Christian and Spirituall his Prayers Counsell Notions with Countributions of all sorts Civill Naturall Temporall Spirituall He is bound by Covenant to discover malignity in State in Church enemies to God as well as man endeavours to any thing of Popery and Prelacy under what visage habit form of Words of Doctrine Discipline be it Presbytery or whatever if repugnant to the Word of God as we are perswaded in conscience who have personally Covenanted The breathings and speakings of the Spirit are not to be quenched Every season is for the Lords service in season and out of season Watchman watchman what of the night The Spirit is powred upon sons and daughters Synods of men are not infallible Not because more men more of the Spirit The liberty of the subject is that of soule as well as body and that of soul more deare precious glorious The liberty wherein Christ hath made us free Be not ye then the servants of men in the things of God We are to try Truth and so receive it in its Degrees ENquiries for Truth ought to be according to Scripture-rule and that rule lights us on to the triall of all things and proving spirits and judging between the precious and the vile The water that is mingled with the wien the Tares with the Wheat will require sound tryall lest we make but an exchange of one Error for another The Apostles waited for the Spirit the Bereans searched the Word we are bidden to trie and prove The Prophecies of seducers false Christs Antichrist with lying wonders are as reall cautions given out by the Spirit The examples of former Ages Luther
will peaceably joyne with them in the Kingdom under that Power and not to trouble the Magistrate further and the other Brethren as peaceably to enjoy their other Divine Right as the Brethren of the Presbyteriall way theirs and all alike under the same Civill Power and neither of them with it and all other Reformed Kingdomes in unity of the Spirit and love to one another Principles destructive to their present Petition extracted from the Inferences 1. The Presbytery now not so distinct in gifts and office but the Magistrate may rule with them THe Eldership and Presbytery in the primitive Churches had a spirit anointing them to such Administrations but now as the anointing is not so nor is the Office pure peculiar and distinct the Magistrates and Parliament have gifts as spirituall as there are any now in the pretended Presbytery and may therfore as well put forth a Power in their Churches or Congregations as they unlesse their Churches Officers and Gifts were more Christs then they are 2. The Magistrate may better rule then the Eldership or present Presbytery The Magistrate is unquestionably a power of God and the present Presbytery are Officers questionable in their Offices Gifts c. Therefore the Magistrate may more lawfully put forth a Power coercive to sin then they 3. Vniformity in the Word of God is the Vniformity of Churchâ—â— They that presse the Covenant for Vniformity so penally as they do make it a snare of compulsion not in the Word of it but in their Interpretation of that Word unity in the Spirit makes up the want of Uniformity in the Letter Kingdoms are to be no more compelled to Vniformity in Laws Ecclesiasticall then in Civill but may walke together as Beleevers so far as they have attained that clause according to the Word of God makes roome for the severall statures of Christ and measures of light in the Covenant and they that agree in that are truly Vniforme for it is the Vniformity with the Word not with one another but so far as we are all alike in that Word which is the very Vniformity of the Kingdom of Christ 4. The Magistrate as they now make him is Ecclesiasticall as well as they They that ascribe a Power to any to compleat and actuate them in their Ministration do acknowledge that very Power by which they are informed to be in those that so informe and compleat them so as the very Petitioning a State for Power and qualification for Eldership and Presbytery doth imply a Presbyteriall and Ecclesiasticall Power in that State and if so the Magistrate may as well govern in that Church as any ruling Officer they have 5. The present Presbytery in mystery both over and under the Magistrate They that are a Magistracy neither over nor under the Presbytery tell me in what spheare or where rule they for over it they are not Commissioners they say are contrary to the Word and under it they are not for their Presbytery is accountable as they say unto â—â— so as they who are so much in the dark with their Government do with Magistracy they know not what and would place it they know not where The Position being a safer way for the Magistrate then the Erastian and how the Presbyteriall Brethren cannot justly exclude him from ruling with them according to the present constitution both of the pretended Church and Presbytery THat the Magistrate or Parliament cannot be excluded from Government in this present Presbytery as the present Assembly would exclude them because this Kingdom of England is not a Church in Gospell-order but a Kingdom of Beleevers in generall and because their present Presbyters and Elders are no true Presbyters of Jesus Christ according to Gospell-order and till both this Nationall Church and Officers be that very Kingdom of Christ and those very Officers of Christ the Magistrate may as lawfully yea more lawfully rule then any other pretended Officer Minister or Elder amongst them for Magistrates have the whole Kingdome of the world allowed them from God for their place of Government And this Kingdom of England being but a Kingdom or world of Beleevers not a Church they may as they are powers of God rule amongst them Jesus Christ being only King and head in that Church or Kingdom which is more his own and the Magistrates Kings for him in that Kingdom which is the worlds or lesse his own so as the Presbyteriall Brethren cannot exclude the Civil power from governing with them according to the unsound constitution of their Church Ministers and Elders nor till they have proved the truth both of their very Church Ministery and Eldership for all Scripture proofes of Eldership and Presbytery is respective to the true Presbytery and Eldership according to Truth not to every pretended Presbytery and Eldership of the Nations so as till the very Constituting Principles of Presbytery be proved â—â—ue no Scripture either alleadged for Presbytery belongs to them nor any other by which they would exclude the Magistrate as from the Church of Christ Conclusion These few things I have writ to draw forth the strength of others in a thing of this Nature which is of high concernment in the things of Gospell-order as any point now abroad for surely it is not a Vniversity a Cambridge or Oxford a Pulpii and Blacke gowne or Cloake makes one a true Minister of Iesus Christ though these are the best things in the composition of some the Mystery of Iniquity hath deceived the world with a False and Artificiall unction for that true one of the Spirit and the Ministery hath beene so cloathed with Art and Habit that if the Apostles should live again and preach in that plainnesse they came they would be as despised for we wonder after the Wise the Scribe and the Disputer of this World FINIS An End of ONE CONTROVERSIE BEING An Answer or Letter to Master Ley's large last BOOKE called LIGHT FOR SMOKE One of the Assembly at WESTMINSTER Which he writ lately against me In which the Summe of his last Booke which relates to the most materiall Passages in it is gathered up and replied to By Iohn Saltmarsh not revolted as Master Ley saith from a Pastorall Calling but departed from the Antichristian Ministery by Bishops and now a Preacher of the Gospell Isa 5. 20. Woe be to them that put darknesse for light Acts 19. 32. Some therefore cried one thing and some another for the Assembly was confused and the most part knew not wherfore they were come together Ver. 41. And when he had spoken this he dismissed the Assembly LONDON Printed for Giles Calvert at the Black Spread-Eagle at the West end of PAULS 1646. THE Law of Nature giving a man leave to speake fairely in his owne just defence and the Law of Grace requiring him to speake zealously in the defence of Truth I thinke it equall that this answer to Mr Ley should be printed April 15. 1646. John Bachiler The LETTER
SIR FOr the Controversie in substance betwixt us I cannot think the Truth I defended so weak as to need a new Treatise to beare it up I see it is otherwise with you who dare not let your former Books stand by themselves without another to support them It is indeed the way of the Popish Schooles to fill the world with Volumes and Tomes and rather to astonish then convince and this is one thing which hath made the world wonder after the Beast There is no end in making many Books How hath Truth been carried out of sight from the Reader in the Labyrinth of Replies and Rejoynders Your selfe gives us an Experement in this Book for how are you puzled to let the Reader know what was yours and what was mine at first and what is yours again and what was mine afterwards and what is yours again in answer to mine and what Truth is after all this I find it to be the wisdom of the Spirit of God to leave the world a sufficiency of Scripture and Truth but not to write all list the world should not contain it And Pilate was not amisse in that What I have written sates he I have written when they desired him to write more So as things being thus I hope I shall write you as much if not more in One Sheet and an halfe as you have writ me in Seveâ—teen for he that writes anything of Truth more properly writes much then he that writes against it though in more Paper The Summe of your Book is this 1. YOur Epistles which are a competent Treatise of themselves and the very Cisterne of your reasoning from whence you fill all the other Pages of your Book 2. The parrs of my Treatise with your Answer or rather much of your former reply which in things of most weight is no refutation but a reference to other Divines who have writ of the like subject c. it seems you have a common stock of learning amongst you or a Argumentative Treasurie to which you referre us with much ease but I cannot take this for good paiment to be put over to another man when you are bound to pay me your selfe I could turne you over thus to as able Divines as you do me to Mr Tho. Goodwyn Mr Burton Mr Iohn Goodwyn Mr Nye Mr Tombes Mr Prâ—â—â— Mr Burrough Mr White Mr Eator Mr Den Mr Knolls c. 3. The Appendix to your Book writ by a Master of Arts whether your friend or your selfe for I know not whom you make the two letters C. D. to stand for who brings in testimonials of your abilities learning piety good carriage worth c. who methinks speaking so much to your praise as he doth stands a little too neere you we should not seek glory one of another our praise should be of God not of men Thus I have contracted you to save you some evill in the multitude of your words now to your matter 1 THat they should counsell me not to cry down the Government 2 That no Presbytery Parochiall c. assumes such power as the Prelaticall 3 That if the question were rightly stated men would be convinced Magistracy and Christian Liberty would be preserved 4 That I should restore such Tythes if unlawfull as I formerly received because the sin till then is not remitted 5 That I would have men beleeve as they list 6 That he was wished rather to a neglect of me then alloud conquest over me 7 That he had rather consute Bellarmine then my new-sprung Notions 8 Because I am against Logick and Formes of Art I am no right Disputant 9 That I am an Ubiquitary in my Beleefe because of the Opinions set down in The Smoake c. 10 That I am an Antinomian and deales with some late Divines as some with Luther 11 That I am unstable 12 That I glory in the quick dispatch of my worke To which Tertullian and some old Poetry and other Authors with a Story of a Noble-man and a Brewer is brought 13 That my Interposition is like to be no delay to the Government 14 That he may be better imployed then in writing and others shall undertake me To the first 1. ARe you in such feares of your Government that you make friends to me to be silent Is it so weak that it may be cryed down To the 2. Is Presbytery because Parochiall Classicall Provinciall lesse Tyrannicall then Episcopall because many rule in that and in this but one or rather not more Tyrannicall because one Tyrant is not so much as many together Evill in a Community is stronger more diffusive then in Vnity To the 3. Is not the Question of the Presbytery yet stated Yea surely What else hath your Assembly and others been doing Is it not a power in your Eldership and Presbytery how little or large soever over the Churches and Congregations Independent upon the Magistrate coercive to all that beleeve not as they beleeve as to Hereticks and Schismaticks And yet men are not convinced nor is Magistracy or Christian liberty so preserved as you say let both the Magistrates and Christians judge who in the mean time you would be Iudges over To the 4. For my restoring of Tythes now unlawfull to me I have done it I have returned to the State my property of a full yeers Arrearage nor did I take Tythes since I was in Kent but the peoples free composition from the first and being even convinced against that too a yeere since I forbore it But take heed how you put forgivenesse of sin upon restitution for that is not only Popery but like the Pope you would sell Pardons only to the rich and none to the poore and you would put more upon Sacrifice then upon Mercy To the 5. Nor would I have men beleeve as they list as you say of me I would only not have men forced to beleeve as others list as you or your Brethren list I would have Faith wrought by the Spirit of God not by the spirits of men who have no Dominion over Faith To the 6. And why do you speak so of a loud Conquest over me Truth is not conquer'd when the man is trampled on It is not your being great can make you a Conqueror no more then your calling by the Bishops a true Presbyter To the 7. And for your desire rather to deale with Bellarmine then me I did not think I had been so formidable an enemie but I will not presume Indeed Bellarmine is a more easie adversary because he opposes the Truth and I though a weake one may be more considerable because Truth defends me rather then I the Truth for I will rather make it my Champion then my selfe a Champion for it And for my new-sprung Notions as you say call Truth Notion or new or what you will you can never call it out of its own nature or essence And Truth is Gods own Notion neither mine nor yours and new
flying away to a Book of Mr Gataker one of the Assembly intituled A Mistake c. and the Book of the namelesse Author called The Plea both writ against me And a very short ANSWER in a word to a Book by another namelesse Author called An After-reckoning with Master Saltmarsh and to Master Edwards his Second Part called Gangrena directed to me Wherein many things of the Spirit are discovered Of Faith and Repentance c. Of the Presbytery And some things are hinted to the undeceiving of people in their present Ministers By John Saltmarsh Preacher of the Gospell Acts 7. 26. Sirs ye are brethren why do ye wrong one to another LONDON Printed for Giles Calvert at the Black Spread-Eagle at the West end of PAULS 1646. Reader IN this Answer to Master Gataker I conceive thou hast a taste of the true Notion both of the sweetnesse and glory of the Gospell Imprimatur May 26. 1646. IOHN BACHILER To the Right Honourable the Lord Maior Aldermen and the Common-Councell of the City of LONDON Right Honourable MAny who call themselves Ministers and Prophets of God accuse us of Heresie and Schism before ye But I hope ye will take notice they are but men as we are and of like passions with us neither Apostles nor Prophets of the first Baptism or gifts of the Spirit Yet if the Priests and Elders or any Oratour as Tertullus accuse Paul to Festus or Agrippa be cannot but answer for himselfe I have but few words to speak to ye Noble Citizens That ye would in that Spirit which is of God judge the Doctrines of Men and single them from Traditions Customes Councels Synods Interests Ye are bid to try the spirits whether they be of God or no. Try whether it be according to God for some Ministers and those not Apostles to call others Hereticks who beleeve not as they beleeve What will become then of the strong and weak Christian of the children fathers and young men Trye whether they ought to preach to ye to suppresse all but themselves since they are not infallible but may erre and where is the Remedy then if they erre Who shall judge the Iudges Try whether this make for unity of spirit to allow no more fellowship nor brotherhood then in Horme and practice And what will they have ye do if Formes should alter For States may change England hath done so Try whether this make for the glory of Christians to persecute or banish as they would have ye all but themselves May they not as well tell ye that God hath made England only for men of the Presbytery or one opinion to live in and worship in And where find they that Trye whether some by their daily Invectives from Presse and Pulpit against Independent's and others bring not in the Popish Designe in another Forme to divide the godly party both Presbyterian and Independent and so to ruine all Try if all such Doctrine as they commonly preach and write to ye resolve not it selfe most into their own interests profits place power And what doth the Scripture and Histories tell ye of that And now I have done praying for ye That ye may be still a free City and not disputed by the miscelany of Logick and Divinity of some into bondage That ye may be still populous and not your streets growing with grasse through any un neighbourly Principle of Persecution which must needs lose ye many and much resort from this famous City under the name of Hereticks not letting such live beside them That ye may be a peaceable City and not raised up and dashed by any breath of men against the other and greater part of your selves the Parliament England hath long enough broken it selfe against its own walls let it now be our strength to sit still and to stand still and see salvation And since the Lord hath let the most of the successe of the Presbytery which is so much desired come thorow the hands of those and that Army whom they have told ye over often were Hereticks let this be but taken notice on by ye what God hath told ye in the successe of that Army and I trust ye will never regard the Messengers by whose hands the Presbytery in a kind came by beating them out of doores Thus rests he Who would rejoyce in your Peace Prosperity and GOSPELL-unity JOHN SALTMARSH REASONS FOR Vnity Peace Love THe Nations and Kingdoms of the world shall bring their glory to Christ and be at peace with all his according to the Prophesies isai 11 6 7 8. Revel 21. 26. Isai 49. 23. And how happy is that Nation or Kingdom which shall be first in this truth and have rather a peace of Prophesie than Policie a peace of God than man How happy shall this Kingdom be to fulfill any of this Prophesie of peace to one another and to the Saints That all Kingdoms and Nations and Princes and People prospered according to their love to Christ and his Pharaoh for Ioseph Ahasuerus for Mordecai Artaxerxes for Nehemiah and the people of the Iews and those Nations have been ever nations of bondage and tyranny to themselves which became so first to the Saints That Ierusalem hath been ever a burdensome stone and a cup of trembling to all that oppressed her and the stone cut out of the Mountaine without hands too mighty for all the Mountaines of the world And the bloud of the Saints where-ever spilled and where ever found in literall or mysticall Babylon never left crying till that very place had bloud given them to drink for in her was found the bloud of the Prophets That the true Peace indeed is more spirituall and comprehensive then men usually think it and takes in severall natures nations people languages of every tongue and kindred so severall spirits consciences judgements opinions not a Peace only of such or such an Opinion not a Peace only of such or such a Society of such or such a Body not a Peace of Presbytery only nor Independency only nor Anabaptisme only but a Peace of All so far as that all or many may be one which is that unity of spirit in the bond of peace That true Peace is an enemy to all selfish interest and selfish preservation and selfish unity or selfish peace because that when Uinity Peace Preservation gathers up from that common interest Peace and Unity to which they are appointed by the law of Creation and Institution and becomes only their own and not anothers their own peace their own unity their own preservation they breaking that law of the Spirit and Communion of their first Creation each perishes in their single private and unwarrantable way of saving themselves And the eye saith unto the hand I have no need of thee and the head to the foot I have no need of you That there is no such impossibility of being one under divers Opinions as we are made beleeve no more then there was for
then I see you are forgive me this injury as the Apostle saies if I accounted you better then you desire to be Love hopeth all things and beleeveth all things And Paul it seems was better perswaded of Agrippa then there was cause and quoted some of the Heathen Poets better then they intended them as it seems I have done with you that being the greatest thing you lay to my charge Master Gataker 1 That our Antinomian Free grace is not the same with that of the Prophets in the Old Testament and the Apostles in the New 2 That in saying the Old Testament was rather a draught of a Legall dispensation then an Evangelicall or Gospell-one was to taxe the Ministery of the Prophets for no Free-grace 3 That in saying the Ministers now by the qualifications they preach do over-heat Free-Grace as your poore soules cannot take it doth make the Prophets Iuglers and deluders of the people Answer To your first That our Antinomian Free Grace is not the same with the Prophets and Apostles Why do you tell us of Antinomians of Prophets and Apostles Free-grace It is not the Free-grace of any of these Free-grace is of God in Jesus Christ Prophets and Apostles are but dispencers of it and Ambassadours of it and Ministers of it and yet Ambassadours not in the same habit The Prophets preached Grace in a rough and hairy garment or more Legally the Apostles in a more clear and bright habit in the revelation of the mystery of Christ The Law was given by Moses but Grace and Truth by Iesus Christ I could as easily say Master Gatakers Free-grace and the Legalists Free-grace as he sayes Our Antinomian Free-grace but such words and reproaches make neither you nor I speake better truth To your Second That in saying the Old Testament straine was rather Legall then Gospell taxes the Ministery of the Prophets for no Free-grace That is according to your Inference only Because the Spirit sayes the Law was given by Moses therefore will you put upon the Spirit that Moses taught or gave out nothing but Law Because I say The Old Testament was a Legall ministration therefore do I say there was no Free-grace in it or doe I not rather say Therefore it was Free-grace legally dispenced or preached or ministred Would not such Inferences be bad dealing with the Spirit and will it be faire dealing with me I wonder you who pretend to write against me as having not dealt justly with your sense will deale so unjustly with mine and commit the same sin your self in the very time of your reproving mine You may see what this Logick hath brought you to To deceive your selfe as well as your neighbour Can you cast out my mote and behold a beame in your own eye I have printed all you quoted let the Reader judge from this and compare it with the rest of my Book The whole frame of the Old Testament was a draught of Gods anger at sin And God in this time of the Law appeared only as it were upon tearmes and conditions of reconciltation and all the Worship then and acts of Worship then as of Prayer Fasting Repentance c. went all this way according to God under that appearance And in this straine saith he runnes all the Ministery of the Prophets too in their exhortations to Duty and Worship as if God were to be appeased and entreated and reconciled and his love to be had in way of purchase by Duty and Doing and Worshipping So as under the Law the efficacy and power was put as it were wholly upon the Duty and Obedience performed as if God upon the doing of such things was to be brought into tearmes of peace mercy and forgivenesse so as their course and service then was as it were a working for life and reconciliation Do not these words and termes inserted As it were and in the way and as if and is it were cleare me from such positive and exclusive assertions of Free-Grace as you would make me speak To the Third That in saying the Preachers with their qualifications over-heate Free-grace I doe by that make the Prophets deluders of the people c. I answer That way of preaching the Prophets used pressing as you say Repentance Reformation Humiliation and with Commination and the Law c. was but according to the way and method and straine the Spirit taught them under the Old Testament but if the Prophets should have held forth Jesus Christ under the New Testament and when Christ was manifested in the flesh with such vails over him and so much Law over him as they did before they had sinned against the glory of that ministration as well as some of you who bring Christ back againe under the cool shadow of the Law and make that Sun of Righteousnesse that he warmes not so many with the love of him as he would doe if ye would let them behold with open face as in a glasse the glory of the Lord and if you would give his beams more liberty to shine upon them doth not the ministration of the Spirit exceed in glory Nor were the Prophets deluders of the people then because it was the peoples time of Pupillage and being under Bondage they were shut up under the Law till faith came they were under Tutors and Governors till the time appointed So as that was truth and right dispensation in them to preach so much of the Law of curse and judgement c. as they did and of Repentance and Reformation in that straine they did But in ye who pretend to preach Christ come in the flesh ye who pretend to be Preachers in the Kingdome of God and so greater then the greatest Prophet then he that was more then a Prophet in ye such preaching were delusion because it were not as the truth is in Christ nor according to that glory of the Gospell to that grace revealed to that manifestation of Christ in the flesh to that ministration of glory but rather to those deceitfull workers the Apostle speaks on to those that troubled them with words subverting their souls who preached Law and Gospell Circumcision and Christ Master Gattaker 1 That we gird at those that bid men repent and be humbled and be sorry for sinnes and pray c. as Legall Teachers 2 That Christ preached repentance humiliation self-deniall conversion renouncing all in purpose this is not the same Gospell with that they preach as in Free-grace pag. 125 126 152 153 163 191 193. Answer To your first for our girding at those that bid men repent and be humbled c. as Legall teachers If ye presse repentance and humiliation legally why wonder ye at such words as Legall teachers Will ye doe ill and not be told of your faults must we prophesie smooth things to you and say ye are able Ministers of the New Testament when we are perswaded that truth is detained in unrighteousnesse We blame not any that bid men
repent or be sorry for sinne c. be humble c. if they preach them as Christ and the Apostles did as graces flowing from him and out of his fulnesse and not as springings of their owne and waters from their fountaines as if the teachers like Moses would make men beleeve they could with such Rods and exhortations smite upon mens hearts as upon rocks and bring waters out of them be they never so hard and stony We agree with you that repentance and sorrow for sinne and humiliation and self-deniall are all to be preached and shall contend with you who preaches them most and clearest but then because Iohn said Repent and Christ said Repent and Peter said Repent are we to examine the Mystery no farther Know we not that the whole Scripture in its fulnesse and integrality reveales the whole truth and must we not looke out and compare Scripture with Scripture spirituall things with spirituall and so finding out truth from the degrees to the glory and fulnesse of it preach it in the same glory and fulnesse as we find it We heare Christ preaching before the Spirit was given Repent and we find when the Spirit was given Christ is said to give Repentance to Israel and forgivenesse of sinnes and shall we not now preach Jesus Christ and Repentance in Jesus Christ the fountaine of repentance the author of repentance and yet preach repentance and repentance thus and repentance in the glory of it more The Apostle in one place saith Beleeve in the Lord Iesus Christ and thou shalt be saved and in another place He is the author and finisher of our Faith Shall we not now preach Iesus Christ first and Iesus Christ the fountaine and Iesus Christ the author of faith and beleeivng and yet preach faith yea and thus preach faith faith in the glory faith in the revelation of it faith from Christ and faith in Christ One Scripture tels us godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation c. And another tels us They shall look on him whom they have peirced and they shall mourne for him c. Shall we not now preach sorrow for sin took from Christ Christ piercing and wounding and melting the heart Christ discovering sin and powring water upon drie ground this is sorrow for sin in the glory of the Gospell One Scripture bids He that will follow me let him deny himselfe and take up his crosse Another saith It is he that worketh in us both to will and to do of his good pleasure and I am able to do all things through Christ that strenghneth me Shall we not now preach Christ our strength and Christ our selfe-deniall and is not this selfe-denyall in the glory of the Gospell So as the difference betwixt us is this Ye preach Christ and the Gospell and the graces of the Spirit in the parts as ye find it we dare not speak the mystery so in peices so in halfe and quarter revealings we see such preaching answers not the fulnesse of the Mystery the riches of the Gospell the glory of the New Testament We find that in the fulnesse of the New Testament Christ is set up as a Prince as a King as a Lord as a crown and glory to every grace and gift nay he is made not only righteousnesse but sanctification too and so we preach him Whereas to preach his riches without him his graces by themselves single and private as repent and beleevs and be humbled and deny your selves ye make the gifts lose much of their glory Christ of his praise and the Gospell of its fulnesse To the Second of your alleadging my Book in such and such pages as another Gospell from Christs I shall print them as you quote them and with them I desire these things to be considered together with the other parts of my Booke and the scope of it which you have detained in unrighteousnesse All these I freely open to the judgment of all who are Spirituall Master Gataker 1 That John Christs and his Apostles Method were all one for matter and manner for they all preached Faith and Repentance and yet we are taxed for these things as Legalists by this Author 2 John and the rest preached life and salvation upon condition of Faith and Repentance and Obedience 3 Where we find Faith only preached it is because we have but the Summaries or heads of their Sermons Answer To the first that I taxe you for preaching Faith and Repentance as the Apostles did and John did as Legalists Nay I tax ye only because ye preach it not as they did according to the full revelation of it in the New Testament but you preach it only as you find it in their Summaries and in the briefe narration of their Doctrine and this you ought not to do if you will preach according to that glorious Analogie of the Gospell and to this I shall only bring in your own words to convince you and so from your own mouth condemn you You say of the Apostles We have but Summaries of them as in Acts 2. 40 and 16. 32. and you knowing this preach only by their first Methods and Summaries not looking to the revelation of the mystery which the Apostle saies is now made manifest And for Iohns manner of preaching his Preaching is to be no more an example to you then his Baptism You know the least in the Kingdom of Heaven is greater then he To the second That Faith Repentance and Obedience were conditions of life and salvation Why keep you not to the Forme of wholesome words in Scripture Where doth the Scripture call these conditions of salvation They that are Christs do beleeve and repent and obey but do they beleeve repent and obey that they may be Christs Hath not God chosen us in him predestinated us unto the adoption of children in Jesus Christ But I know you wil say That when the Apostles did beleeve repent and obey it is by consequence as much as a condition and the same with a condition But answer The interpreting the Spirit thus in the letter and in consequence hath much darkned the glory of the Gospell When some of Christs Disciples took his words as you do under a condition Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man c. the words saith he that I speake are Spirit Consider but what stâ—â—â—ts you bring the Gospell into first you make life appearing to be had in the Covenant of Grace as at first in the Covenant of Works Do this and live so beleeve repent obey and live thus runs your Doctrine nor can you with all your distinctions make Faith in this consideration lesse then a worke and so put Salvation upon a condition of works againe Is this Free-Grace But you say Faith is a gift freely given of God and here is Free-grace still But I pray Is this any more Free-Frace respectively to what we do for life then the Covenant of works
are not so to him who hath chosen them nor to him in whom they are chosen And this is the mystery why Christ is offered to Sinners or Rogues or whatsoever you call them they are as touching the Election beloved for the Fathers sake I speak of such to whom Christ gives power to receive him and beleeve on him and become the Sons of God and Christ findes them out in their sins and visits them who sit in the region and shadow of death and them that are darknesse he makes light in the Lord. To your fourth That God may be provoked to wrath by his Children I pray Can God be as the Son of man Is there any variablenesse or shadow of change in him Can he love and not love Doth he hate persons or sins Is he said to chastise as Fathers otherwise then in expressions after the manner of men because of the infirmities of our flesh must we conceive so of God as of one another Can he be provoked for sins done away and abolished Hath Christ taken away all the sin of his Hath he borne all upon his body or no Speakes he of anger otherwise then by way of Allusion and Allegory as a Father c. And is that He is a Father after the fashion of men Or speaks he not in the Old Testament according to the Revelation of himselfe then and in the New Testament of himselfe now only because our infirmity and his own manner of appearing which is not yet so but we may beare him in such expressions and yet not so in such expressions but we may see more of him and his love and the glory of Salvation in other expressions and not make up such a love as you commonly do of benevolence and complacence Did David and Peter as you say make up their peace with God by Repentance Is there any that makes peace but one Jesus Christ who makes peace through the bloud of his Crosse Can Repentance make peace Or Obedience make peace Is there any sacrifice for sin but that which was once offered even he that appeared in the end of the world to put away sin by the sacrifice of himselfe And was not this called by the Apostle One sacrifice for sins for ever Repentance Obedience c. may make way for the peace made already for sin that is in such workings of the Spirit the love of God in the face of Iesus Christ may shine upon the Soule more freely and fully and the more the Spirit abounds in the fruits of it the more joy and peace flows into the Soule and the more the Soule looks Christ in the face so as peace with God is not made but more revealed by the Spirit in obedience and love c. To your fifth That God loves us for his own graces in us I thought he had loved us too in himselfe and from that love given Christ for us and yet loved us in Christ â—op Can any thing without God be a cause of Gods love Doth God love as we love one another from complexions or features without or loves he not rather thus God is love and therefore we are made and Redeemed and Sanctified not because we are Sanctified therefore he loves us We love him because he first loved us he loved us because he loved us and not because we love him not because of any Spirituall complexion or feature in us because of his Image upon us that is but an earnest of his love to us that is only given us because he loved us he loves us from his will not from without for though we are like him yet we are not himselfe and he loves us as in Christ and himselfe Whereas you say God is as man and as a Father I hope you meane not as in himselfe but as in his wayes of speaking and appearing to us and if so we are agreed But your taking things more in the Letter then the Spirit makes your Divinity lesse Divine and your conceptions more like things of men then of God This makes the Gospell so legall and carnall when we rise little higher then the bare Letter or Scripture not the inspiration by which it came all Scripture being given by inspiration To your sixth That Faith is not a persâ—â—sion more or lesse of Gods love and that all may have that I pray mistake not Can all beleeve from the Spirit Can all be more or lesse spiritually perswaded Do I speake of any perswasion of Christs love which is not Spirituall Deceive not your selfe nor your Reader nor wrong not your Author or do I speak of Faith abstracted from all Repentance Obedience c why deale ye thus When you say men may beleeve too suddenly because I presse men to beleeve and you instance in Simon Magus Was he blamed for beleeving too suddenly or for mis-beleeving because he beleeved the gifts of the Holy Ghost were to be bought with money Can any beleeve too soon if some mis-beleeve or beleeve falsly what is that to them that truly beleeve Shall the unbeliefe of some make the Faith of God without effect God forbid Can Christ be too soon a Saviour to us Can the Fountaine be too soon opened for sin Can the riches of Christ be too soon brought home Paul counts it an honour to be first in Christ Salute Andronicus and Iunia who were in Christ before me and the Church in Prâ—scilla's house and Epenetus who were the first fruits of Achaiâ— unto Christ To your seventh That Christ bids us repent as well as beleeve yea first repent Yea but will you take the Doctrine of the Gospell from a part or summary of it as you say and not from the Gospell in its fulnesse and glory and Revelation Will ye gather Doctrines of Truth as Ruth for a while did gleanings here one eare of Corne and there another and not rather go to the full sheafe to Truth in the Harvest and Vintage Will you pluck up Truth by pieces and parcels in Repentance and Obedience and Selfe-dentall and not reveale these as Christ may be most glorified and the Saints most Sanctified and these gifts most Spiritualized and improved Will ye Preach Doctrines as they lie in the Letter or in their Analogie and inference of Truth The Papists Preach Christs very flesh and bloud to be in the Wine And why but because they looke but halfe way to the demonstration of Truth in the Spirit they shut up Christ in one Notion and not in another and so loses the Truth by revealing it in that Forme of words which is too narrow for it and too short of the height and depth and length of it You say We are to try our Faith So say I too if you would not pick and choose in my Book to make me some other thing then you find me But you mean we must try our Faith for assurance as your other words imply and so far I say too but you
That some of the dissenting Brethren hold Synods Ordinances of God and this Assembly so I know some of our Brethren for the Presbytery hold Infant-Baptism unlawfull and Antichristian and hath better defended it then any yet whom I have read hath answered it And for this Assembly to be an Ordinance of God I thought that had been but an Ordinance of Parliament and stood by that power by which they were called by at first Yet deny not but that consultations for holy ends about the things of God are lawfull by the Word To the Tenth That Presbyteries because not infallibly gifted are of no Divine Right and so concludes against all Presbyteries and Ordinances Yea against all your Presbyteries to be of Divine Right as the first But our question is rather whether the first was any such Presbytery as you now affirme and for ought I see you can no more prove the truth of the Presbytery then in the sense you take it then your Presbytery to be one with it one only in Divine Right not in Divine power or gifts And how are these things sutable To the Eleventh That I contradict the pure Government I plead for by pleading for yours as prudentiall It were true indeed if I pleaded it in mine own behalfe I plead it occasionally for them who will needs have what the State cannot in conscience allow them and yet will not practice any other but what the State shall give them and so trouble both the State and their own consciences and would cast a snare upon both Brethren if ye will needs have the State to allow ye your Presbytery Why are ye not content with what they can allow ye If ye will have a Divine Right which they cannot allow ye why do ye trouble them and sit down under a bondage of your own making But how justly is this yoke come upon you who would have brought a worse upon your Brethren To the Twelfth That the first Presbyters and Apostles c. were not infallible as in divers practices What is this to the truth and gifts they taught and taught by They failed as men but not as Apostles They erred as they were Peter and Paul but not as moved by the Holy Ghost Take heed by opening the Apostles failings to justifie your own you speake not worse Blasphemy then you name in me and make that glorious Word of Scripture questionable which they preached like the words that your selves preach from that Scripture To the Thirteenth That to say the Apostles did advise in place of the written Word is Blasphemy What Blasphemy is it to say that the same Word which they writ and preached the same Spirit spake in them and spake the same truth in them which writ in them And is it so with any of your Presbyters Therefore till the same Spirit speak truth in them so as in the first Presbyters will they challenge the same right the same power Will they have a Divine Right acted by a spirit lesse Divine then the Right To the Fourteenth That the Presbyterians in France Scotland and the Netherlands do not embroyle Kingdoms There is good reason in France they cannot if they would I wish you would walke under the Magistrate as they do and as your dissenting Brethren here and not make him serve you And in the Netherlands do you as they do there and leave your Brethren to the like liberty that is in that State and they will not grudge ye your Presbytery amongst your selves For Scotland they are Brethren I wish no worse to then Truth and Peace and power above their Ministers To that of excommunicating kingdoms being a bugbear You do well to say so till ye be established but you that dare so capitulate with States whom ye are called to advise in things onely propounded what more may be expected upon all your principles I leave to be judged To the Fifteenth That they aske not of the State a power but a liberty to exercise that power Well and will ye trouble the State no further Will ye not intreat them to punish such a one and such a one whom ye judge an Hereticke and a Schismaticke to fine and imprison when you have done with them at Excommunication May the State be quiet if they say to ye go all that are so perswaded as you are and worship and practise as your dissenting brethren and other Saints and trouble not us to provide for your Tythes and Rule for you in things of your own cognizance over Consciences But you would onely have liberty from them your power is of Christ But you cannot so cleare things as you thinke If your power and liberty respectively to your selves and the Magistrate be so distinct why have ye mingled them and confounded them all this while Why make ye the truth and power ye have from Christ wait so at Parliament-doores as Master Case said If the powers on earth will not do for Christ as you would make the people beleeve Why do not ye your selves more for Christ Is it better to obey God or man Thus the more ye would single your selves in your power and right from the Magistrate the more your practice makes an argument against ye To the Sixteenth That I should say 〈◊〉 sound Church Church-officers shall excommunicate and judge of offences and in an unsound the Magistrate and the Inference there I answer I spake and writ so according to your principles not to my owne Nor can I see how you can chalenge such a one entire and simple Discipline exclusively to the Magistrate upon no more true pure and Scripture-principles then your present Presbytery is And I conceive the powers on earth or in the world have to do in every Government that is more of the world then of Christ For if ye exclude them from a part in that Government which is partly prudential and of man you exclude them from off part of their owne Kingdome which is theirs by inheritance and of more Divine Right then I conceive yours to be And whereas you would make us beleeve you stand onely in a pure Gospel strength and power and desire no more of the Magistrate but liberty can this be so in truth when all is esteemed invalid and nothing if the Magistrates power doth not actuate the Ministers power I know you may distinguish of powers Scholastically and Spheres of working for those powers and so tell the Magistrate and us he doth but act in his Sphere when he acts in yours and indeed acts yours making it to be stronger then it is in it selfe But is not his Civil power that which puts life as you think into all your Presbytery Yet he must think he doth but as a Magistrate still as if so be that the Magistrate were made to be rods in the hands of the Church and Swords to be drawn by them and Iron whips at their girdles We are not now as Aarois and Moset we are not