Cyprianus vigilantissimus Episcopus gloriosissimus Martyr Blessed Cyprian a most vigilant Bishop a most glorious Martyr And comparing Cyprian Stephanus Idem lib. de unico Bap. contr Petil. cap. 14. Donatus together in their different carriage about that question he did not reproach Cyprian as schysmatically affected but shevved that both Cyprian and Stephanus and those that adhaered to them preserved unity each vvith other Idem contr Donat. lib. 5. Cap. 11. and did not as Donatus seperate from the Church for that cause and for himselfe he professed hovvsoever he held as he did touching the Baptisme of Iohn se non acturum pugnaciter c. that he vvould not quarrrell those that held othervvise In latter times Beza shevved the same spirit tovvards Bullinger and Gualter Praef. in lib. de presbyt et excom contr Erast for though they seemed to incline more to Erastus his opinion then he could vvish yet he speaketh honourably of them calling them after their deaths non tantum Tigurinae sed Christianae totius Ecclesiae lumina lights not onely of the Tigurine but also of the wholl Christian Church and elsevvhere they are stiled by him optimi illi beatissimae memoriae fratres summâ tum pietate tum eruditione praediti his excelent brethren of very blessed memory men of singular piety and learning and he taketh occasion to excuse their difference from him in that point not to brand them with any black noate for it Thus in those men the spirit of love vvraught as it had done before them in the Apostles of Christ For howsoever Paul justly reproved Peter as the case required Gal. 2. yet Peter did not lye at the catch as vve say to recriminate him but tooke occasion from some passage in Pauls epistles to make an honourable mention of him saying 2. Pet. 3.15 Account that the long suffering of the Lord is salvation as our beloved brother Paul according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you c. such a carriage of differences amongst Christians specially Ministers of the Gospell vvould much conduce to the advancement of the truth and stopping of the mouthes of adversaries vvhich are apt to be opened upon tvvo advantages 1. The differences in judgment amongst professours 2. The bitternes of spirit vvhich they discover in those differences To prevent as much as in me lyeth any hurt that may come from these tvvo praejudices I thinck it requisite that I add a word or two upon occasion of this advantage which some bitter passages in the Answer doe seeme to give all sorts of adversaryes to blaspheme the trueth 1. All sorts of people are apt to object against the truth that the professours of it doe not agree amongst themselves This the ancient Philosophers objected against the Christians in the first 300 yeares after Christ whose mouthes the worthy lights in those times stopped with the different sects among the Philosophers thēselves In like manner I may tell the Papalls of the 26 Schysmes in the Romish Church others of the troubles in Franckford raysed in Queene Maryes daies about bringing in the English liturgy into that place for the effecting whereof they spared not to endanger the life of that famous Godly man Mr. Knocks who opposed it others of Troubles about excommunications in Amsterdam extant to the view of all men and all men of differences about their severall wayes and projects 2. Bellarmine to prove that our Religion doeth not produce holynes in mens lives instanceth in the violence of Luthers spirit which appeared in much bitternes even against those vvho agreed vvith him in opposition to popery because they differed from him in some particular tenets That this is but a fallible signe may appeare not onely in this that shevves of holynes may be vvhere holynes in trueth is not as in that gravity constancy and humility vvhich vvas observeable in that enimy of Gods grace Pelagius Aug. Epist 120. Mat. 7.15 according to our Saviours praediction concerning Wolves in sheepes cloathing but also in this that distempered passions have bene found in eminent servants of God as in the difference betvveene Paul Barnabas the onely vvise God for his ovvne glory many vvayes by some infirmityes stayning the glory of all flesh Hovv hot vvas the contention betvveene Cyprian and Stephanus vvhat violent and troublesome dissention vvas there betvveene Theophilus and Chrisostom also betvveene Cyrill of Alexandria and Theodoret boath Bishops Catholicks boath learned boath godly boath excelent pillars of the Church and yet he that readeth both their vvrightings vvould thinck that boath vvere dangerous enimyes of the Church The invectives of Ierom and Ruffinus one against another are extant and Augustines Epistles vvherein he bevvayled the same Hovv many unkindnesses passed betvveene Chrisostom and Epiphanius Did not the one refuse to pray vvith the other Did not the one chalēge the other for manyfold breaches of Canons Did not the one professe that he hoped he should never dye a Bishop and the other that he should never come alive into his country boath vvhich things fell out according to their uncharitable vvishes Epiphanius dying by the vvay as he vvas returning home and Chrisostom being cast out of his Bishoprick and dying in banishment And these things came to passe 1. partly by the instigatiō of others Thus Epiphanius vvas stirred up against Chrisostom by Theophilus So that their contentions arose from a versatilous wit accompanied vvith a malicious and vindictive spirit in Theophilus imprudence accōpanied vvith too much credulity in Epiphanius 2. partly by some stiffnes inflexibility of spirit in some of them accōpanied vvith much hardnes to be reconciled vvhen once offēded to those vvith vvhom they vvere displeased from vvhich blemish Chrisostom vvas not altogether free and that caused him somevvhat the more trouble 3. partly by mistakes as in the differēce betvveene Theodoret and Cyrill and in the division betvveene the Christians of the East and those of the West the one suspecting the other of haeresy upon a mistake For the Romans beleived three persons in the Trinity but vvould not beleive three hypostases thence the Orientall Christians thought them Sabellians vvho held that there is but one person in the Godhead called by three names The Easterne Christians beleived three hypostases in the Godhead but vvould not admit three persons vvhence they of Rome thought them to be Arrians vvho beleived that there are three distinct substances in the Godhead Athanasius perceiving that they differed not in judgment brought them to accord by shevving them that they meant one thing though their expressions vvere different so that there vvas a difference arising from ill suspition which was grounded upon misunderstanding one another Lastly from an ill guided Zeale whereby beside the former Luther and those that adhaered to him were carryed too far in opposition against Zwinglius about the Sacrament which afterwards Luther saw and confessed to Melancthon a litle
began to breake forth apparently at least the fuell might have bene subtracted and it suffered to have gone out and to have dyed of it selfe but in stead thereof oyle is cast upon it to make it flame out and the force and violence of it is by his booke as by bellowes or a strong wind driven upon the faces of those who have done and suffered much that they might extinguish it Alas what benefit could redound to the Church by such personall vindications published to the world seing a sufficient answer given in wrighting to their written complaints would have satisfyed their desire and ended all difference among them And what though these private wrightings were printed yet what necessity was there of printing any answer to them seing the Answerer had many wayes to have suppressed them at the presse being made privy to the printing of them by the printer himselfe which I was not and seeing I protested in print against the first part which concerned me and the Complainants professed theire dislike of publishing the other part of it How tender I was of the Answerers reputation my Protestation sheweth in part and my labour to have the booke suppressed more fully manifesteth For I procured that all the copies unsold might be bought up so that I am told about foure hundred and fifty of the five hundred were stopped How he hath requited me let his booke speake And howsoever he pretendeth that the printing of that pamphlet compelled him to print in his owne defence yet it is evident 1. that he declared his purpose of printing about these matters before any wrighting was made by me in myne owne defence or by them in way of complaint of their greivances 2. that his theatning to print an answer to their complaints which then were onely written and left in the Consistory privatly and the report of one who said that he had seene some of the sheets which the Answerer had prepared to print were the causes moving W. B. to print that wrighting 3. that himselfe declared in a letter which the freind to whom he sent it shewed me that he purposed to print an answer to that short wrighting which was left by me when as nothing had bene printed by W.B. Which proveth that the printed pamphlet was not the cause of his booke but that he tooke occasion thereby to publish that which he had before purposed 4. When he acquainted the ministers of the Classis with his purpose of printing an answer to that pamphlet they disuaded him yet he againe importuned them to consent to it threatning to get it printed in England if they opposed it here To conclude He so wearyed them with importunityes as if his life had layne in the doing of it that they left him to himselfe after they had advised him to leave out some passages which they disliked in his copy but still professed that as they did not hinder him so they would not counsail him to doe it This some of those learned prudent men have affirmed to some of the members of that Church whereby the Reader may see with how strong a bent of spirit he was carryed hereunto but upon what argument or motives I leave it to his owne consideration in the sight of God Yet if he would print needlesly ah that he had not done it so reproachfully sarcastically bitterly Not that I have cause to be troubled thereat in respect of my selfe who have in some measure learned to be content if God will have it so to be as a lampe despised in the thought of him that is at ease Iob. 12.5 Heb. 10.35 and to be made a gazing stock both by reproaches and afflications by becoming a companion of them that were so used but for the truthes sake for the Churches sake for his owne sake whom I doe unfeinedly reverence and love in the Lord though I am by him compelled to this unpleasing contest I confesse that when I read his booke and considered how to answer it upon a serious pondering of passages I thought upon Herods short letter to Cassius 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and if I had so written to him Philostr in vit Herod though I should have censured my selfe as not dealing according to the respect which I beare to his gravity and long standing in the Church ministeriall abilities c. Yet he could not answer as Paul did a like though more unjust chalenge that he wrote the words of truth and sobernes Act. 26.25 For how untruely though I hope but by ignorance or forgetfullnes or misapprehension or inadvertency passages are reported I am compelled to declare in the severall answeres How unsoberly let the Reader judge without my raking into that finck which maketh the wholl booke the more unsavoury and uselesse This also remembring my praecedent admonition I would cover for the better moderating other mens censures by imputing it to some aptnes in his naturall spirit to causelesse jealousies or to the infirmity of his age or to his melancholy temper or to the instigation of others or to the violence of temptation or to a misguided Zeale as our love causeth us to impute unbeseeming carriages of our freinds in violent feavers c. to the disease not to the man As for me what reproaches soever I sustaine I hope the spirit of understanding and counsaile and the feare of the Lord will so guide me that I shall not by returning rebuke for rebuke 2. Pet. 3.9 Rom. 12.21 Aug. ad Catech give just cause of suspicion that I am overcome of evill But such a necessity is now layed upon me that I may say with Augustine Cogimur non tacere cum potius expediat flere quam aliquid dicere I am constrained to wright though in some respects it were more expedient to weepe then to say any thing My desire is to make a modest defence of the truth and of mine owne innocency without injuring or irritating any body Wherein I purpose to propound to my selfe excelent patternes whom I wish the Answerer also had imitated such as Basil and Nazianzen Greg Naz Monod in Laud Basil whose spirits were so sweetly composed in a difference betweene them that notwithstanding it they gave due respect each to other Basil calling Nazianzen Vas electionis puteum profundum os Christi An elect vessel a deepe well the mouth of Christ and Nazianzen winding up his invention to the highest streine in Basils praise as appeareth in an oration made by him for that purpose though he noate an unkindnes received from him which he could not well digest In like manner Augustine differed from Cyprian about rebaptization yet he doth not reproach him but excuseth his errour rather Aug. lib. 2. de bapt contr Donat Cap. 7 saying nondum erat diligenter ista baptismi questio pertractata That questiō about baptisme had not bene diligently discussed unto that time and honoureth his name with excelent titles Beatus
if it 2 neither did he keep private as mourners use to doe but came to the Consistory 3 neither did they apprehend the death of that mayd to be so great a cause of sorrow to him as is here intimated for reasons which are not worth the printing 4 that if it had bene so they cōceive that private greifes should not hinder the redresse of publick greivances and that by the sense 〈…〉 owne sorrow that day for the losse of one mayd servant he might have bene more affected with compassion towards them who had many dayes mourned for the losse of more then one Pastor whom God had by his providence brought among them almost cast upon them Secondly The same observation may be retorted upon himselfe both for the yeare and the moneth 1. The yeare wherein his booke was printed was the yeare 1635. A time when not only the Churches of Dutchland were in great affliction but also the Churches in the Low Countryes were in great danger the Prince of Orange being then in Brabant and the Armyes in some distresse by want of victuall a time wherein by speciall order from the States Generall all Churches were called upon to meete one day in a week in publick to heare the word preached and to pray for the good successe of the Prince and of the Armyes And we are commanded as in all prayer so particularly when we pray for those in authority 1. Tim. 2.8 to lift up pure hands without wrath c. 2 The moneth wherein it was published was Iune or Iuly a time when I was very weake having bene not long before very neare unto death at which time he laboured importunately with the Classis for their consent to the printing of this booke But from that death and from dangerous relapses afterwards into weaknes and distemper the Lord in mercy recovered me even when man cruelly added sorrow to my affliction But I wil aggravate that no further How well he performeth his purpose of not doing the least wrong to those against whom he wrighteth will appeare to the indifferent Reader in the examination of the following Sections in which if he had dealt accordingly I might haue bene happily freed from this unpleasing taske whereby I am now unwillingly detayned from more profitable imployments being compelled hereunto by necessity for the justifying of the truth wherein I doe humbly beseech the God of trueth who also is Love to assist me with the spirit of trueth and of love that I may be inabled in every passage to declare the trueth in love To conclude I leaue it to the Reade to judge whether so to contend be worthy of such a censure as this Answerer layeth upon it or of any blame at all for the matter of it and the thing done unles in the manner of it any unwarrantable distemper of affections or passions have appeared in the complainants which if it be found I will not justifye neither will they I hope justify it in them selves So much be noated for the vindication of theire complaints Secondly Now being called See more concerning that wrighting in Sect. 22. 4 Things in defence of my wrighting 1. I must cleare the wrighting left by me from his unjust intimations against it For which purpose I will declare fowre things First that the wrighting qua tale is not to be blamed Suppose I had complained Is it unjust to wright downe a mans complaints Then downe with all courts of Iustice where suits causes are so transacted And my case was such as I could not be righted against many injurious reports purposing to leave this country otherwise then by wrighting Againe a man wrighteth with more deliberation and a more full recollection of his thoughts then he speaketh and so with more strength as the scattered beames of the Sun heate more intensly and vehemently being united in a burning glasse And lastly I would haue added that a man wrighteth with more composednes of mind and a better temper of spirit then he usually speaketh and so with more solid judgment the passions being somewhat quieted and allayed as the water is cleare and transparent after the mudd is setled in the bottom but that the distempered passions appearing in the Answerer and that in print are a reall confutation thereof Secondly Neither was the secret spreading of the wrighting a fault but rather an Argument of my tender care of his reputation that I desired that matters betweene us should not be divulged but only declared where it was necessary for their satisfaction who had bene praejudiced against me by untrue reports of passages Or if the delivery of a wrighting to a freind or two in myne owne defense was to be blamed what shall be sayd to him 1. Who provoked me thereunto both by private suggestions and by publick injuryes 2 Who him selfe did the same thing without being provoked thereunto by me For he wrote a large letter to one Mr. B. at N. in England dated Septemb. 26. in which moneth also he had revived contention in publick after I had satt downe quietly almost 5 moneths and with this he sent inclosed a copy of the wrighting of the 5 Ministers which I never did because I tooke it to be a private wrighting not to be communicated without their consent Thirdly Neither was that wrighting a complaint if actions be denominated from their ends but rather an Apology or true defense of my innocency against untrue reports about my letter to the Classis and about the question concerning promiscuous baptizing of all that are presented by whom soeuer and about passages betweene the Answerer and me being frequently importuned by some freinds to giue them myne answers to such objections that they might be inabled to satisfy others that were praejudiced unjustly against me So that in my intent it was an Apology if by accident it became a complaint who is to be blamed He that complaineth or he that gave the cause let the Reader judge Fourthly Here is an old fallacy Nō causae ut causae when my wrighting is pretended to be the cause of their complaints which was not For they complained of many of the greivances mentioned in that wrighting not only before my wrighting was seene but before I saw Amsterdam And though they make some complaints which agree with some passages in my wrighting yet they make many more also which are not in my wrighting Who watered those rootes So much shall suffice for the vindicating of my selfe from the imputation of contentiousnes and of my wrighting from the censure of watering evill weeds of unjust complaints Ans He sayth of our Church had he not exercised much patience and industry it would certainely have fallen from me c. But as he doth vainly prayse him selfe c. Here is a 4 fold charge layed upon me with bitternes enough Reply 4. Things unjustly charged upon me 1. Vaine selfe-praysing 2. Wronging him and the Church 3. Folly and
November 1633. New stile We now proceed to the third worthy Mr. Forbes and to examine what he sayth concerning him Two reasons are pretended by the Answerer against Mr Forbes Ans 5 A defence of Mr. Forbes for the justifying of his refusing him to be his Colleague 1. His differing from him in judgment about the Declinatour or appeale c. 2. His refusall of referring that difference to an hearing of Ministers And thence he proceedeth in the third place to shew the issue of this difference and Mr. F. refusall to referr it which was that not only he but all the Elders with one consent refused to proceed in the calling of him Reply These we will examine severally and breifely To the first Herein may be noated 1. The Answerers unaequall dealing in publishing to the world these particulars against Mr. F. which by his owne confession were at least 24 yeares past Pag. 13. whereas he blameth the Complainants for unseasonable admonition in that they complaine now of matters done above 20 yeares agone about Mr. Parker and Mr. Forbes Was it unseasonable in them and is it not so in him Nor will it helpe that he say they compell him to it seing in the very next instance viz speaking of Mr. Peters he sayth I thinck it needles to give a reason here why I gave not my voyce for him Why might not this answer as well have served in the former instances 2. His policy is to be noated in this passage in his urging that appeale as a meane to keepe out Mr. Forbes well knowing that Mr. Forbes would not now passe from that for procuring a Ministry in Amsterdam for the which he had formerly taken his life in his hand and at that instant indured banishment 3. His disparadging of Mr. Forbes his judgment when he sayth he saught to maintayne his appeale insinuating thereby an indeavour without ability To the second 1. Any man of understanding and charity will conclude that Mr. Forbes his refufall of entring into that dispute with the Answerer is not to be imputed to his feare of the Answerers weapons or strength especially the case being such wherein Mr. F. had bene as well sifted before as the Answerer could sift him but to his great wisdome modesty who hath alwayes manifested that duetifull respect to his Soveraigne never to stand to the defence of any thing displeasing to his Maties but when and where conscience did urge him Neither could he have entred into that debate without some overture of too much forwardnes for and desire of that station from which his spirit was very averse 2. it seemeth not to be without too much selfe-confidence that he undertooke to shew Mr. F. the unlawfullnes of that appeale The wholl councell of Scotland consisting of wise and honourable persons with others as well versed in the lawes and constitutions both Ecclesiasticall and civill of Scotland as the Answerer did they re indeavour to make Mr. F. and his associats to understand the unlawfullnes of it and yet they could not see it but the Answerer will presently shew it them To the third That both he and the Elders with one consent refused to proceed in the calling of Mr. F. upon his refusall to give them satisfaction A refusall supposeth a petition the Answerer should have shewen who was the petitioner 1 was it Mr. Forbes This seemeth to be intimated But they that knew M. Forbes knew him to be a man of no such meane spirit as to petition or seeke to be the Answerers Colleague 2. were the members of the Church the petitioners or motioners for his call and was theyr request frustrated upon this ground Then they re complaint seemeth to be just in that they were deprived of him for such a cause For what is a difference about things done in Scotland and which are proper and peculiar to the cognition of that State to the Church in Amsterdam what Canon of any Nationall Synod what order of any Classis what Custom of any Church in Holland is violated by Mr. Forbes his opinion concerning the Declinatour Which injury both to them and him is the greater seing notwithstanding that he was intertayned setled in an English Church and which is more to this purpose with the English Merchants amongst whom he lived paynfully discharging the office of a Pastor above 20 yeares to the singular content of the Company not without his Maties of Great Brittaine c. King Iames of famous memory his approbation as to the prayse of his Royall clemency appeared in a message sent by him to the Company For him God provided mercyfully But the Church in Amsterdam was by this meane deprived of a man of eminent worth in the injoyment of the fruits of whose learning judgement wisdom amiable spirit and other exellent properties and indowments all places where he hath lived thought themselves happy accounting him a mā richly furnished with all indowments which are requisite not onely for a minister to any Church but also for a publike instrument upon great occasions in the cōmon affaires of many Churches to stand before princes What esteeme he had in Scotland appeared by theyr imploying of him in publick services those of great importance How he was accepted in Swedē whither he travayled after his banishment was manifest besides other instances in the great favour shewed him and honourable proffer made to him by that Mirrour of Princes the last King of Sweden a litle before his death How the Company of Merchants who injoyed him so many yeares affected him is evident in the annuall exhibition which they have conferred upon his widow as a testimony of theyr high esteeme of him theyr deceased Pastor whom it pleased God to call hence where in ter Veer he finished his course was freed from all the troubles of his pilgrimage to injoy that crowne of righteousnes which is layd up for those that have faught a good fight he died on the 5 day of August old stile and was buryed on the 9 day Anno 1634. In the sixt place he dealeth with Mr. Peters or rather declineth the answer of theyr complaint in that particular Had he done so in all the rest he had eased me of all this labour and trouble might have seemed to others more free from blame then he is or now can rationally be judged to be The answer to the sixth Section examined This Section might haue passed without being examined by me P. 33. had not the Answerer in the close of it brought me in as one fighting against him in like manner as the Complainants which is according to an English proverbe to slander him with a matter of trueth But because he sayth the answer before given to the Complainants may also serve for answer to me I am compelled to examine the wholl Section to find out the answer given to me in theyres His wholl answer tendeth to charge them with slander in
authority of Câ—â—sses whereunto what I answered he knoweth 2. Concerning promiscuous administration of Baptisme according to the custom of the Dutch Church in Amsterstam wherein what I held and doe hold shall appeare For the second By comparing this report with my noates of our conferences which I wrote upon my returne to my lodging whilest matters were fresh in memory I finde it to be partiall and defective First partiall in declaring the state of the question which was not as he intimateth but thus After an hystoricall narration made by him of a difference betweene the Classis and Mr. Hook about a custom which the Ministers of the Dutch Church in Amsterdam have of baptizing all that are brought by whomsoever he asked me what I thought of it I desired for my satisfaction to know whâ—t their custom was being then in part ignorant thereof He told me that they baptized all refusing none I replyed that I would baptize all their infants who were members of his Church refusing none He sayd that is not sufficient I desiring to carry matters with all possible peaceablenes told him that I would not refuse to baptize others also which were no members of his Church if I were satisfyed coÌ„cerning the Parents and instanced in such as might occasionally be there from England were sufficiently knowne to me But yet the case might be such in some others as I should not adventure to doe it He answered But here they except none but baptize all that are brought though the parents be not knowne or the infant be presented in the fâ—thers absence by persons unknowne I told him that I hoped such cases were seldom especially in the English Church He said it must be expected to fall out often I told him I should desire to be satisfyed concerning the parents before the child were presented He sayd They would often bring them in sermon time without giving any notice before and in such a case to refuse any would give offence if the child should be unbaptized I replyed that offence may be prevented seing those whom I dare not admit may repayre to the Dutch Church where none are refused He added that it would give offence to the Classis if our Church â—hould not doe as they did in this I answered the difference betweene the small English Church the vast Dutch Church in the same towne being considered that might easily be answered By all which it appeareth that the thing which I refused and whereupon our difference arose was the promiscuous administration of baptisme to all that are presented by whomsoever and not that J made the parents submission to my private examination a necessary condition of baptisme but only I propounded it as a prudent meane for avoyding that promiscuous baptizing which he required Thus the Reader may see the report to be partiall Secondly it is defective not mentioning diverse passages of discourse betweene us which I will but point at As about an order in the Classis which he sayd was for this concerning which what I demanded and what he answered I will for this time conceale as also what he spake about this custom being alwaies observed in that Church as also about passages that he sayd had bene betweene the Classis and Mr. Forbes about Mr. Hooker in reference to this question He omitteth also our discourse about the case of an unbaptized Turke presenting his child to baptisme with no other profession then that which is required in they re Church And how he thought it to be more for a mans satisfaction to baptize all upon the injunction of the Classis then to refuse any upon his owne judgement Other passages also I could name but these may suffice to shew that his memory hath not retayned particulars so well as my noates at least that this report is defective But let us consider his Arguments The arguments for promiscuous baptizing 1 From Reasons He mentioneth 2 sorts of arguments which he used in that conference to convince me The first consisted of reasons the second of Scriptures alleadged against my opinion First the reasons were two 1. the scandall of the Brownists 2. the offence of the Church In both which he should have set downe my answers also which seing he neglected I will now set downe truely according the to substance of my answer and yet breifely 1. The scandall of the Brownists To the first I answer 4 things Ans 1 1. What the Brownists hold so farr as it accordeth with the rule is to be received for the rules sake which is truth and not to be rejected because they hold it Ans 2 2. Theyr unjust and unwarrantable excommunicating of Mr. S. for such an opinion is not justifyed by my supposed agreement with them in this tenet For a man that holdeth this may condemne that Ans 3 3. the difference betweene them and me in this point is such as the Answerer knoweth that there is no feare of theyr insulting or being hardened thereby 4. the French Churches and some other Dutch Churches viz in Zealand and England c. are not so large in this practise as they in Amsterdam To the second I answer 1. That the wayes propounded by me for accommodation 2. The offence of the Church Ans Meanes propounded for accommodation A Copy of a wrighting shewing were sufficient as I conceive to prevent any offence of the Church These wayes I will now relate in the words wherein I wrote them to a freind to inable him to acquaint the Dutch preachers with the truth in this matter This wrighting was dated delivered by me for the use aforesaid the 10 of Ian newstile 1634. Wherein I spake of my selfe in the third person for good reason at that time Sir because you are willing to take paines for the accommodation of this difference you shall in few wordes understand 1. the true state of the question 2. the reasons of his answer 3. the way of accommodation which will best satisfye him which I leave with you in wrighting for the helpe of your memory First the question is 1. The state of the question whether he will baptize all children who are presented to the Church though the parents be no members His answer was and is that this cannot be answered otherwise then according to cases He may not say that he will baptize none and he dare not say that he will baptize all but this he sayth There are cases where in he will baptize such as are not members of this Church and yet the cases may be such as in them he shall refuse to administer it to others Secondly the reasons of his answer 2. Reasons of my answer besides others which to him seeme weighty in reference to this particular place are two 1. the promiscuous mixture of all languages and sects amongst which also are many Libertines which are of no Church and for aught is knowne many parents who themselues never
Mr. Doctor doth make of the holy Sacrament of baptisme which is an entry into the house of God and whereby the family of God must enter a common passage whereby he will have cleane and uncleane holy and profane as well those that are without the covenant as those that be with in it to passe by and so maketh the Church no houshold but an Jnne to receive whatsoever cometh I will answer If one of the parents be neither drunkard nor adulterer the child is holy by vertue of the covenant for one of the parents sake if they be boath yet not obstinate in their sinne whereby the Church hath proceeded to excommunication themselves being yet of the Church their child cannot nor aught not to be refused To the second question wherein he asketh what if the child be of papists or hereticks If boath be papists or condemned hereticks if so be J may distinguish papists from hereticks cut off from the Church their children can not be received because they are not in the covenant If either of them be faythfull I have answered before that the infant aught to be received To other questions wherein he asketh what if they erre in some points of matters of fayth If it be an errour and be not in those points that rase the foundations of fayth because they still notwithstanding that errour are to be accounted amongst the faythfull their children pertaine to the promise and therefore to the Sacrament of the promise Dr. W. p. 111. Else where he demandeth whether a wicked father may have a good child a papist or heretick father a beleiving child Yes verily may they sayth he So may have and have the Turckes and Jewes and yet their children are not to be received unles their fayth doth first appeare by confession But you say the papists and hereticks be baptised and so are not the Iewes and Turcks Their baptisme being cut off from the Church maketh them as much strangers unto it as was Ismael Esau which albeit they were circumcised yet being cast out of the Church they were no more to be accounted to be of the body of Gods people then those which never were in the Church The same authour in his next Reply to the same Doctor reasoning out of Beza in his epistles that the papists are to be compared with the Israelites with fell away from true Religion â—dem 2 Reply concerning Church discipl Tract 11 and not with the Idumaeans answereth This cannot help him unles he first shew that the infants of those Apostates were lawfully circumcised For if they were not circumcised by Gods order and constitution but rather at the lust and pleasure of those which being fallen away from the covenant ceased not to put to the seale as if they had bene still within the covenant it followeth that in this respect there is no more succour for the papists in such resemblance with such Israelits then when they are matched with the Ismaelites or Idumaeans Mr Cartwright his judgment is the more to be regarded in in this matter because what he wrote in those Replyes he wrote as a publick agent in the name and with the concurrent judgement of many worthy ministers who pleaded for the purity of Christs ordinances at that time So that it is not to be accounted his singular opinion but the judgement of many mâ—n of eminent noate Maister I del'Espine minister of the word in the Church of Anger 's upon a most dreadfull Apostasy Mr. I del'Espine Treat of Apostasy revolt of many from the profession of the truth in the Churches of Anjou on St. Bartholomeus day memorable for ever infamous for that bloody massacre wrote a learned and excellent treatise against those that persisted in their Apostasy wherein he proveth them to be deprived of God of Christ of the Spirit and of those meanes whereby they may come unto God that they have no fayth and are without the Church and that they are deprived of the Sacraments as well as of the word of baptisme as well as the supper of the Lord. For their baptisme no more serveth them for a token to testifye and declare them to be members of the Church from which they are seperated or that they pertayne any longer to the Father to the Sonne or to the Holy Ghoast whose house and dwelling place they have forsaken As if a Knight having received that order of the King and taken the accustomed oathes if afterwards he should depart from the troth which he had given in token whereof he should send him back his order to signifye to him that he would afterward be freed and released from his oath So the Apostates having given over the covenant of God have also by the same meanes forsaken the tokens and markes thereof c. Before all these Iohannes a Lasco Anno 1550. a learned noble man of Poland obtayned of Edw 6. K. of England of famous memory that the Churches of strangers in London principally of Germans might have the liberty of their Religion under the broad seale of England which was by that most pious Prince graciously granted not without the approbation of renowned Cranmer Archbishop of Canterbury and other eminently learned and godly men at that time What their care was to prevent the prophanation of this Sacrament by such a promiscuous admission of all as is practised in this place will appeare in his owne report which I doe translate from the latin copy thus Baptisme in our Church is administred in the publick assembly of the Church after the publick sermon For Iohn A. Lasco lib Forma ac Ritus tota eccles minist p. 117 seing Baptisme doth so belong to the wholl Church that none aught to be driven thence which is a member of the Church nor to be admitted to it which is not a member of it truely it is aequall that that should be performed publickly in the assembly of the wholl Church which beloÌ„geth to the wholl Church in common Forma ac Ritus administ Bapt. And Paul testifyeth that by Christs ordinance the Church it selfe without excepting any member of it is to be accounted cleane or holy by the Ministry of Baptisme Whence we may easily see that Baptisme doth neither belong to those who are altogether without the Church nor may be be denyed to any members of the Church Now seing our Churches are through Gods blessing so instituted by the Kings Matie that they may be as it were one parish of all strangers dispersed thorough the wholl city or one body corporated as it is called in the Kings grant and yet in the meane space all strangers doe not joyne themselves to our Churches yea there are many who whilest they turne from and flye all Churches will pretend to the English Churches that they are joyned with us and to us that they are joyned with the English Churches and so doe abuse both them and us we least
that wrighting would have bound me The second way of defining he denyeth to belong to any Councill and affirmeth that it appertayneth onely to God and to Christ and to the Holy Ghost Here I might be large in alleadging wrighters of the most eminent noate affirming the like and the same for substance with me in this matter and many of them expressing their judgments in the same words But these shall suffice till a further provocation Afterwards the Answerer demandeth whether no truth be uttered or described by men in our times whereunto the consent of men may be required But what is this to the matter in question Had they declared it to be a truth I was ready to have testifyed my consent with them in it But that they did not nor hath he done it in all this taedious discourse So that this is to argue ex non concessis from that which is not granted Or will he say that because every truth uttered by men must be consented to therefore we are bound to consent to every thing which men shall utter And to as litle purpose is that which he alleadgeth concerning the subscription which the Reformed Churches require to their confessions of fayth Whereas the matter in question is not comprehended in any Article of those Confessions and out of those very Confessions we doe dispute against it But was not the Answerer driven farr and put hard to his shifts when to make some shew of answer he demanded how I could subscribe my name to my owne wrighting sent to the Classis to shew my consent to it and whether I did thereby make my selfe an Apostle or my wrighting aequall to the word of God To let passe his improper calling it my consent to my owne wrighting my subscription to it was not in reference to my selfe but to the word of God whereunto it is consonant and it testyfyed unto them my persuasion that it agreed therewith but what is this to the subscription which they required to injunctions and praescriptions which were not declared to agree with the Scripture either in that wrighting which they sent or in any conference they had with me though I told them that unicum Argumentum c. Any one Argument from the word should prevayle with me and that besides other times once in the hearing of some of the Elders and others But will it follow that because a man upon persuasion of the truth may subscribe to other mens wrightings or to his owne that therefore he may subscribe to those wrightings concerning the truth whereof he is not persuaded Whilest he was wrighting these things a secret Monitour from within suggested to him that all humane judicatoryes are subject to errour and that when that errour is shewed by the word of God it aught to be corrected But if the question be who may judge of this errour and shew it them Here his answer is defective He sayth one Synod often reformeth that which hath bene decreed by another This sheweth indeed that Synods are subject to errour And doe they not therefore erre because they fetched not their definitions and praescriptions from the Scriptures And is it not the best way for rectifying them to reduce them to that rule And how shall this be done but by the course which those Noble Beraeans tooke by comparing them with Act. 17.11 and examining them by the Scriptures And to whom doeth this belong Indeed the publick Ministeriall power of judging in such cases belongeth to Synods or Councills themselves But the private judgment which Divines call the judgment of practicall discretion belongeth to every Christian So that no man is bound absolutely to submit to or to rest in the judgment of any man or Councill but to trye them by the Scripture and to consent with them no further then they appeare to consent with that rule This the Scriptures abundantly declare Mat. 24.4 1. Thess 5.21 1. Ioh. 4.1 Gal. 1.8 Mat. 23.8 when they command all Christians to beware of Seducers to trye all things to trye the spirits Also when they are called upon to receive the word of Christ onely as their onely Master And to deny men the use of their private judgment in things taught them by their Pastors or injoyned and praescribed by Classes or Synods what is it else but to deprive man of his reason mans understanding of its end which is to search find out the truth yea to deprive Christians of the fruite of their fayth and supernaturall illumination and of the spirit of Revelation 1 Cor 14.20 Eph 4.14 Euseb li. 5. C 12. Or at least to make those of riper yeares to be alwayes as Children in understanding This were to revive the haeresy of Apelles 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that people aught not accurately to weigh and examine what is propounded to them Hieron in proem ad Gal from which Ierom was so farr that he much commended Marcella a good woman in Rome for this that she wherever she met him would be putting good questions to him and received his answers not as Pythagoras his schollers did his sayings or as the Answerer would have had me to rest in the judgment of the five Ministers but she examined and weighed all things so that he thought himselfe to have non tam discipulam quam judicem not so much a scholler as a judge and as he allowed a good woman this liberty in trying the wordes of a learned and godly Teather so Hylary giveth the same liberty to all private Christians in examining the decrees of Councells Hylar de Synod adv Arrian Si contraria invicem senserint Concilia debemus quasi judices probare meliora If Councills or Synods differ in their determinations we aught as judges of our owne actions to approve of that which is better Whereas he addeth Yet doeth not this take away their authority for the judging and deciding of controversies For by such reasoning they might take away all government and bring in confusion I grant that it taketh away no due subordinate Ministeriall authority frō them but a supreme Praetorian or Magisteriall authority as that is when they bind men to rest in their determinations without convincing them that they are according to the mind of God in the Scriptures or so much as declaring to them sufficient ground out of the word for their so doing And so to doe is not to take away all or any government but tyranny nor to bring in confusion but to prevent it and to establish order Whereas he addeth that by these and such like injurious speeches they doe exceedingly gratifye many sorts of Libertines Arrians Socinians and other haereticks c. What injury is it to witnesse against undue power which is a testifying against injury And how can the Libertines Arrians c. be gratifyed by pleading against that undue power which is excercised in upholding that disorder of promiscuous baptising which serveth to strengthen