instance Each mans internal conscience hath a light or law in it which condemns or accusâ—â—h for murther c. now if there be accusations against whom is the offence committed but against something infinite and what way is there more divinely rational to apply to the justice of such an infinitâ— being on God offended but by one who is both man and God even Jâ—sus Christ So as the mystery of salvation is such as even reason it self cannot contradict or gainsay though it cannot comprehend to leave the world inexcusable in their unbelief because it commands them to believe in one whom in reason they cannot deny to be a way proportionable betwixt God and themselves for salvation 11. It carries things in such a rare way of mercy of justice of love of piety anâ— as it is a salvation from God to man so it is a salvation managed by one who is God and Man and every thing belonging to it is accordingly mixed or tempered of Word and Spirit of power divine and outward dispensation or ordinance and all this for man who is of a mixed nature of flesh and spirit Thus things are carried in a way of proportion and sutablenesse so full so sutable and compleat and serviceable as the invention of men could never devise 12. It discovers reason to it self in all its workings and wayes in its purity and corruption in its vertues and vices conscience bearing witnesse to the Laws and Commandments of it it purifies and spiritualizeth reason and brings it into such a way of communion with God as the souls that read it and are exercised in it seem to be new born to receive in another nature an immortal and incorruptible seed 13. It manages all the designe of salvation contrary to nature and the world upon contrary principles dispensations and hands by a Person poor humble and crucified for the good by Ministers and Dispensers mean and contemptible fisher-men tradesmen c. yet inspired by graces contrary as self-denial humility love to enemies by conditions contrary as weaknesse affliction poverty suffering dying carrying a treasure a comfort a riches a life a glory under all these 14. It is accompanied by continued or standing miracles though miracles of a more spiritual nature as discovery of the counsels and hearts of men as conversion from sin mortification of sin changing natures from evil to good planting in new dispositions inclinations affections into the soul Now if such changes and conversions were in material or sensible things as from water to blood from water to wine how would it astonish Which in spirituals is more wonderful though onely lesse discernable and not to be so sensibly perceived preserved by its very enemies the Roman cruelty of Emperours and Antichristian Traditions 15. It refers the discovery of all Truth in it self to the Spirit of God which no word but the Word of God would do and will not take in men into glory with it self which miracles do which are done by the hand and ministery of man and the Spirit in this way must needs be a more glorious Interpreter of the Will of God then the meer ministery by man and miracles can be by how much it is of a more spiritual nature and it is more excellent to seek things in the Spirit then in any out ward dispensation which as it comes more immediately from God so it comes in more immediately upon men and to take in Truth by sense and sight or miracle is rather to know Christ after the flesh 16. Yet after all the Word it self is the best way to bring in evidence and discovery in its own behalf to the souls of those that will come under the power operation and experiments of it under the enlightening convictions impressions of it in the reading hearing and meditating of it These things are written that ye may beleeve And they that are thus exercised are above all miracle and are perswaded enough by it self without the help of an outward work 17. To these I adde the testimonies of the most ancient in witnesse of it Dionysius Areopagita thought to live in the times of the Apostles not daring to take his Divinity anywhere but from these Scriptures Irenaeus who was in the yeer 180. affirming the fulnesse of these Gospel-Scriptures and accounted them the Pillar of Truth So Tertullian who lived 1400 yeers since doth accordingly witnesse to their perfection Origen Athanasius Chrysostome Constantine the Great in the first Nicene-Council with thousands others all along to our own age 18. The Jews whose very Testament and condition answers to every Prophesie and Gospel-Scripture 19. The many of those most eminently ancient learned and godly who have shed their blood in testimony of it 20. The power of God going along with it 21. The confessions of the most learned in that confesse that the Original Copies are not corrupted but continued pure One ARGUMENT from the National Covenant for Liberty of Conscience yet with all subordinate and just obedience to the State ART 1. THe first Branch of the Covenant is That we shall sincerely really and constantly c. endeavour c. the Reformation of Religion in the Kingdoms of England c. in Doctrine Worship Discipline and Government according to the Word of God c. ART 2. The second Branch of the Covenant That we shall in like manner without respect of persons endeavour the extirpation of Popery c. Superstition Heresie Schism c. and whatsoever shall be found contrary to sound Doctrine c. Now from these I argue 1. Each one is personally and individually bound by the Covenant and in his own proper conscience is obliged to endeavour a Reformation according to the Word of God and so far to the example of the best Reformed Churches as they are agreeable to that Word I hope no further Now who shall be the Judge and Interpreter of this Word of God to each mans conscience in the things of God but he who is Lord of the conscience in things immediately divine spiritual The consciences of men are under a spiritual and immediate Interpreter of the Word even the Spirit of the Lord in all things of spiritual cognizance as every scripture-Scripture-truth or Truth in the Word is and this is not onely strengthened and clear from the Word but from a testimony which some when they read may know better then many others By the Clause According to the Word of God we understand so far as we do or shall in our consciences conceive the same to be according to the Word of God Now each man standing thus ingaged in his own particular and in his own proper conscience by a Covenant recommended and imposed each is bound to bring forth the evidence of their consciences in particular concerning this to which they are covenanted So as I or you being covenanted against Popery Heresie and according to the Word of God you and I stand bound by
our own private consciences to reveal to the State who hath recommended such a Covenant unto us what our consciences interpret according to this Word against Popery or Heresie unlesse there could be one universal or publike infallible Interpreter of the Word of God and Truth who might determine concerning Heresie and the Word of God and whose determinations is as in the formerly inspired Apostolicâ—l teachers we may rest So being thus ingaged by Covenant we are at the same time by one and the same Act bound to liberty of conscience in these particulars of the things of God and if there should be any persecution for the pious modest and peaceable liberty so taken and practised whether would it not clearly and undeniably follow that our consciences are not under the Lord Jesus and his Spirit immediatly in the things of God but under the interpretations of men And surely that one Clause according to the Word of God is most providentially inserted for if we be so closely covenanted to the Word of God how tender ought we to be lest in this dark season of our discerning we oppose something of the Word and so in ignorance persecute what we covenant to maintain I wish our Assembly would presse this equally with the Covenant in their Sermons Object But must every one be the Interpreter of the Covenant Answ. Nay not every one in every thing The Magistracy in all things of a civill cognizance and in all spirituall things which go out from their meer spirituall condition into a morall offence as injustice or evil transgression into tumult or disturbance of publike or private peace actually and expressely not interpretatively for so the Nations interpreted the Jews as troublers of the State and the Jews Christ and his Disciples as movers of sedition The Papists and Prelats interpreted the Nonconformists or reproached Puritans as factious and tumultuous So as in all things of Moral Civil or Secular cognizance which the Magistrate hath clear rule for to walk by He ought to interpret and proceed by partly because he is the Legislator and so is the best Interpreter and can best resolve us in things of Law and publike liberty and in morals his duty lies out more clearly but in meerly divine and spiritual interpretations of Truth and Gospel-mystery the Lord Jesus and the Spirit of Jesus Christ are both the Legislators or Law-givers and Interpreters to the conscience Object But shall there be no power to compel consciences into Uniformity Answ. I shall give light to this by propounding a Case Suppose the several godly parties or beleevers were equally principled for persecution or non-toleration and were equally numbred and were equally strengthened by parties of Magistracy on their side What would come forth according to such principles I sigh to consider There would be edge against edge authority against authority power against power and all the State or Kingdom involved into blood and cofusion So as we must consider things according to their principles not according to their temporary or occasional advantages Object But you give not enough to the Magistrate Answ. Yea more then any He that gives him that which God hath given him gives more then any that pretend to give him the most The pretenders that bid for the Magistrate at this time are 1. They that put him as an help and government in the Church as some viz. they of the Erastian way 2. They that make use on him but as an help to the Church extrinsecally and by way of forrain assistance as others viz. they of the Presbyterial way 3. They that give him power over body goods over all moral and civil behaviours of men Professors and Beleevers of what sort soever of what opinion soever as I and the rest of our Brethren do praying with all manner of supplication that under them we may lead a peaceable godly and quiet life Object But why dare you not ingage Civil Magistracy in Religion over consciences as some others do Answ. Yea In all things morally good and evil God hath ingaged them and hath set the Law and Light of nature and conscience in all people to side with them condemning and excusing what they and their Law doth condemn and excuse and thus to bear witnesse with their dominion and power But in things of pure Gospel-mystery and Evangelically good or evil I dare not ingage them whatever others do over consciences because I give more to their just power and because I dare not draw them into such principles which hath broken more Magistracy then all the other plots and devices of men For things of Worship which are laid up in the pure simple mystery in the Light of the Spirit not of nature as all meer Gospel-mystery is to ingage the Magistrates sword into these is rather a way to dash them against every mans conscience and so in time to lay in a fatal power or a fatal suffering We know that power which makes Kingdoms soùndest in their Dominion and most lasting is the truest and wholsomest and surely that which ingages them lest into that part of the soul the conscience which can lest endure to be oppressed is the safest and most peaceable To my Reverend learned Friend Master LEY One of the Assembly of Divines at Westminster Author of a Book called The Resolution of the New Quere published by Master Saltmarsh SIR I Shall give you a publike account according to your publike charge in your leafe concerning me That I intended to make you my Censor for some papers which I did not publish Pag. 1. Sir those papers were an answer to Master Fullers last Book and the Question about Reformation betwixt him and me being so out of all Question as Master Herle observeth and he as I heared being dead made me rather put up my Arrows into their Quiver theen shoot them at such a mark For my contending with you in this I hope it is but as that of Paul and Barnabas and Paul and Peter a contention of Brethren not of Enemies for I think you would oppose Truth no more then my self but we both may be said to contend rather for the Truth then against it and rather with one anothers reason then with Truth In this Controversie you have much advantage of learning and experience but there is a Spirit and the inspiration of the Almighty which enlightens the young man and the old Elihu as well as Job or his Friends Your other advantages are the Magistrate whom you have more on your side we onely are more on the Magistrates side then they are on ours yet we cannot but say and blesse the Lord for them they are so far on ours as we lead a peaceable and quiet life under them Your other advantage is an Assembly of learned Divines yet not so wholly yours the way of Truth we stand for hath a Party there and I hope when the vaile of prejudice is taken away and Truth is brought home
it seemes whether Master Saltmarsh consent or no Master Ley in his capacity is better able to put it on at this time then Master Saltmarsh is to put it off to another time unlesse the Lord who is above all and hath the mighty even the Princes of the earth to command work for his own glory above all that we can or think Master Ley's Resolution pag. 38 39.40 To the second Objection and Answer of Heresies and Schisms and so they might have done from Iohn's first Sermon he saith 1. Why doth he begin at Iohns first Sermon Were not the Esseans c. Hereticks and Schismaticks See Epiphanius c. 2. He makes Paul's Epistles the terminus ad quem which from Iohn's first Sermon to the last make up Twenty nine yeers After the Epistles he brings in the sending the Spirit c. which was but five yeeres after the first Sermon of Iohn Baptist 3. Before the end of the Epistles that Government was not which we finde in Scripture and if so the Church-government was not long suspended 4. Nor would it prejudice our expedition People of that Age could not be so easily gathered as with us they may be 5. What was long in establishing in Primitive times cannot be said to be hastily done now after so many discussions and delibrate resolutions Reply You say first Why begin I for Hereticks and Schismaticks from Iohn's first Sermon I begin there because there began the mystery of the Gospel And yet I shew you that no Government began with that Gospel manifestition by which I made appeare that if Government had been of such moral necessity why was it not given out with the Gospels first giving out Now you prove in a chronologicall discourse the space of time from Iohns Sermon to Pauls Epistle to make the time appeare for government And after you have summed up all the time and periods and finde it no two or three yeers work you conclude People of that age could not be so easily gathered as now Nor the long establishing then to be an hasty establishing now And now after all this discourse and ravellings out of time from Iohns Sermon c. What have you gained Not that the government was soone setled Then you have proved much to my advantage and in a clearer and fuller computation then I did the contrary So as you have onely beene taking some learned paines if you well observe and the Reader well observe you to prove that the Government at first was not suddenly cast into modell nor brought forth in practice which is the very thing I aimed at and truely your paines in it have beene more exact then mine and I thank you for it But you say It ought not to be so now nor can it be said to be hastily done now that was done so long ago You say true in that But you know the same Spirit must reveale it that formed it and it formed it at first by degrees and the way of Revelation hath beene more yeeres then the first forming reckon but your Antichristian yeeres as exactly as you have done your first Christian and Primitive yeeres and you may be more satisfied So as all both the first Revelation of it from Prophesies and the latter from Antichristianism makes all for the not hastening which I aimed at Indeed if you can as infallibl assurey us this forme and model is the very forme then given out it were very true that you say That it cannot be said to be hastily done now what was done so long ago viz. If it be that very one which was done so long ago For your exception against me concerning my placing the giving of the Spirit so late if you interpret sense by the strict order of words you will lose many a Scripture truth in the words as you well know Master Ley's Resolution Pag. 40. 41. To that of Heresies c. he saith What if they do not stir up their Patrons against the State c. but they busily poyson the souls of the people and shall they if as Paul Best be suffered to blaspheme and reproach and perturb the publike Peace An Indulgence much like old Elies c. If Truth be not more precious then Peace Why doth our Saviour say He came not to send Peace and why do the Fathers contend so against the Arrians about a letter And why we so with the Romish Religion rather then be at Peace with them For that of morall transgressions he would have the Magistrates set on Set on By whom We have not such mean thoughts of the Magistrate as to make mention of him in such terms of disparagement And for all his Disciplines regulating men for religious walking there will be worke enough for the Magistrate to bring them under civill tryall for contumacy c. Reply You say What If heresies stir not up they poyson souls If they poyson let the Gospel antidote be applyed then and no other way which the Gospel will not bear nor allow there is the sword of the Spirit and weapons not carnall but mighty and spirituall For that of old Elies indulgences which you speak on you are still looking upon Moses though you tell us of Christ Make the Kingdome of Israel and of England the same a Iewish and Christian State the same and then we shall allow you both Elies sin and his sons maintenance by tythes and offerings You say Truth is more precious then Peace yet there is a Peace precious as well as Truth even the Peace of Christ as well as the Truth of Christ But to the businesse You would prove Truth to be precious to the disadvantage of Peace and therefore you bring in the Fathers against the Arrians and us against the Papists and Christ against peace But what would you prove Would you prove that truth ought to be established against Peace and Peace to be no way to Truth Surely Truth and Peace do meet together nay they are so much one as there is even a Truth in Peace He that was Truth it self could say My Peace I leave with you But What of the contentions spoken on of the Fathers and us c. If there be any quarrelling for Truth either by the Fathers or us but in a Gospel-way we are not excusable neither doth Christ speak of Truths drawing swords but of swords drawn against Truth which is no Argument for you When Peter would draw a sword in the defence of Truth Christ bid him put it up So far is he against your way of defending Truth You say By whom should Magistrates be set on and that you cannot speak in such disparaging words By whom be set on By the legislative power by the Parliament The Parliament can set on their respective Committees Justices c. and is this any disparagement I speak of subordinate Magestrates not of the supream You say There will be work for the Magistrate enough to punish the contumacious c. That
is in English the Presbytery will keep the Magistracy doing and now who disparages the Magistrate Who set them on work Who makes them their Deputy-punishers Nay Who is the Sathan to whom the excommunicate are delivered It is an expression not much besides your principles and who disparages the Magistrate in that Master Ley's Resolution Page 41 42. To that of Truth being otherwise armed from Heaven I Answer We think it not meet to divide the subservient means from the supream power nor the exercise of Discipline from his assistance who can make it effectuall the sword of God and Gidion To that of the imputation of jealousie c. There is a godly jealouâ—â—e which would set up as many securities as may be against Heresie and impiety The faulty jealousie is theirs that would stifle the Government but there is a fear which we professe of Gods anger for connivence and communion with hereticall men c. There is in some an aversenesse to Heresie in a true zeal and love of God There be many other causes of jealousie but I will take but that one of the Lords and Commons p. 43. If Master Saltmarsh had well considered who were engaged c. he would not have under-valued their piety and prudence to compare them with Papists and Prelates I will conclude with a peece of his own politick advice c. Vpon such principles is Church-Government ordained for his Text out of the Revelation Revel. 18.1 As he began so he ends with mis-application of Scripture Reply You say you cannot divide Discipline from his assistance who can make it effectuall That is from the Magistrates This is a signe without further Argument that you do not hold your government for Christs because it cannot be effectuall of it selfe without help from below and the world and to another power then its own nor is the sword of God and Gideon any fair and just proof for joyning Presbytery and Magistracy it joyns onely God and the Magistates You say Your godly jealousie will set up as many securities as may be But then they are warrantable and Gospel-ways of security That is no godly Jealousie which sets up other wayes as Herod killing all the children to secure his Kingdome David dissembling to escape Jacob to get a blessing there is Jealousie but no godly Jealousie nor warrantable security So to secure any way though of truth by a power not allowed on in the Gospel as no such compulsive power is in your way is not to be jealous with a godly Jealousie though I deny not but some of those may be godly who are so jealous but not in that You say that some fear Gods anger for their Communion with Hereticks c. You know all such fear is onely warrantable in the Church not in the world It is not so with the Nations now as with the Iews Now if we have not communion with them in the Nation we must go out of the world But What communion is this you mean that will bring Gods anger You have your liberty to withdraw to separate as they from you If it be nationall or civill communion then you pluck up the tares before the time of harvest But whom you esteem Hereticks they it may be think they have as good Scriptures to esteem you so and this is Heretick for Heretick interpretation against interpretation And since there is onely a sufficiency but no infallibility now as before since there is no Apostles for interpretation as at first for Revelation why do we thus cry out Hereticks Hereticks the Sword the Sword Let me put one Question here Suppose those you call Hereticks were of equal number to you and both of you equally numbered with Magistrates and both of you equally principled for Persecution and both equally calling out for the Magistrates Sword what clashing of swords would there be What edge against edge what authority against authority what power against power What bloody doings what sad workings what confusion would there be This is an Image of your Incorporation of your two powers that you so plead for in this kinde If we were equally principled and armed for Persecution as you are and acted by your spirit Ah what a Kingdome would here be You say Some have aversnesse to Heresy in a true zeale to God These are but generall notions of Heresy Every thing is not Heresie that is called so And for true zeal to God in that aversenesse all this is granted if that be Heresie indeed But how if it be such a zeale as Paul saith the Iewes had a zeale but not according to knowledge how if it be such a zeale to God as crucified the Sonne of God and such a zeal there hath been we know The Iewes did much in zeale to Truth even against Truth But you close up with that of the Lords and Commons in an Ordinance c. I am afraide these are such proofes as you intend most in your Presbytery to make your supplement to Scripture from Authority and so to make us beleeve what you cannot perswade us to beleeve and to make it out by an Ordinance what you want by Scripture But I hope that honourable Senate will rather let you argue from the Scripture against us then from their Authority But I have not to do here with answering Ordinances of Parliament I contend not but submit to them in every Ordinance for the Lords sake nor doth my Argument lie against any thing of theirs but yours I dare not undervalue them to count them as Parties but Iudges in our difference I appeal to the Parliament as to Caesar nor in it a fair proof of Truth to draw the Magistrates Sword out of the Scabbard You say You wonder considering who was engaged I would so undervalue them to compare them with Papists and Prelates I did consider who was engaged a Parliament c. and had I not highly valuâ—d them I had not ventured so far in my Quaere I considered the sad and fatal troubles which attended the Magistrates engagements with the Ministers the blood which hath been poured out by National compulsion of tender Consciences and like a Spiritual Watchman I could not but blow my Trumpet and give warning And for my comparison of Papists and Prelates I appeal to the world if there be any reproach whether it be not in the Interpreter rather then in the Author But I know no such thing by my Paper And if it be lawfull to draw in consequent conclusions and then father them I could prove you to speake Treason Blasphemy Idolatry Atheisme Heresie nay Independency which some of your Way think worse Anabaptisme Separation which would seeme to be as hatefull to you But I judge you not in any such sort nor had I spoken so far now but in a just Vindication You say You will conclude with my Politicks and upon such Principles as mine Church-govenment is ordained I have told you my Politicks were
contrary to the full b practice of all that baptized by water as they do as in Act. 2.38 Act. 10.48 Act. 19.5 Act. 8.16 c. and a confounding Scriptures together viz. several institutions and practicer 2. That baptizing in Matth. 28.18 cannot properly nor in the word and letter be understood of baptizing by water because there is no more mentioned in the letter or Scripture then meerly the word baptizing and to expound it as they do by a baptizing by water is to put in a c consequence and interpretation of their own for Scripture which way of consequences they condemn in all others Presbyterials c. as Will-worship and traditions of men and justly too Now there being no water nor any circumstance in the Text to make out any sense of water as in other places it is an usurpation upon the Spirit and the Word to put such a sense so infallibly and peremptorily upon the Word which Jesus Christ himself uses in other d significations then that of water as in Matth. 20.22 23. Matth. 3.11 1 Cor. 12.13 1 Cor. 10.2 all these places are of Baptism and baptizing yet not one of them of baptizing by water but of Metaphorical and figurative Baptism by his sufferings by the Holy Ghost by the Spirit by the cloud and sea 3. That Matth. 28.18 Mark 16. c. are rather and far more probably to be expounded of the Spirits Baptism or the e Baptism of the Holy Ghost because it seems to be prophesied on by Joel 2.28 Isai. 44.3 where the Holy Ghosts Baptism is promised to come by Christ and in Matth. 3.11 Act. 1.5 Joh. 1.33 prophesied on to come by John and Christ himself to his Disciples and was fulfilled in Christs institution and power which he gave in Matth. 28.18 by baptizing with the Holy Ghost which the Apostles did accordingly practice and by their Ministery was given as in f Act. 8.17 and Mark 16.16 17. compared with Matth. 28.18 doth shew that the Baptism in Matth. 28.18 is a Baptism of gifts as Mark 16.15 16 17. 4. That the Baptism of Jesus Christ by water was onely in the Name of Jesus Christ as appears in all the places where such a g Baptism was practised as in Act. 2.38 Act. 10.48 Act. 19.5 Act. 8.16 Rom. 6.3 all which is a Baptism onely in the Name of Jesus Christ of the Person of the Son not of the Father Son and Holy Ghost as they now practise and which was never practised as appears in all the Apostles and Disciples practice 5. That the form by which they baptize viz. I baptize thee in the Name of the Father Son and Holy Ghost is a h form of mans devising a tradition of man a meer consequence drawn from supposition and probability and not a form left by i Christ to lay over them at the dipping them in the water If Christ had said When you baptize them say this over them I baptize thee in the Name of the Father Son and Holy Ghost and unlesse Jesus Christ had left this form thus made up to their hands they practise a thing made up by themselves and drawn or forced out of Jesus Christs words in Matth. 28.18 6. That to preach in the Name of Jesus Christ or to do things in the Name of Jesus Christ is not alwayes in that grosse manner as it is taken viz. naming Jesus Christ or the Father Son and Holy Ghost over them But in the k power vertue efficacy Ministery of Jesus Christ or the Persons of the God-head of Father Son and Holy Ghost as in these Scriptures Matth. 18.20 Mark 13.6 Joh. 14.3 Act. 19.15 16. Joh. 17.6 11. Act. 9.14 Revel. 11.18 So here they are at some more losse 7. That though I deny not but water is a signe and one of the l witnesses that bear record and in the Word though not yet clear yet neither can Christs Institution of water as his own Baptism in his own Person be made appear out of all the New Testament nor can the Apostles practice by water yet be fetched from such a particular Institution unlesse from John's And if so I am sure they are then at as great a Controversie one with another concerning m John's Baptism and Jesus Christ's making them to be two several Baptisms 8. That every common disciple cannot so baptize as the first disciples did because not gifted or n qualified as they were And there is as much necessity to make out the Truth in the same power and way of evidence to an Antichristian estate as to a Jewish and Heathenish and with a Word written as well as preached speaking and writing lieing both equally open to question and exceptions without a power o gloriously working in the behalf and to the reputation of it Nor is there any one Disciple in all the New Testament preaching and baptizing by way of authority but he was able to make out the truth of his calling and dispensation either by miracle or gifts There are but three Exceptions and they have no weight in them 1. p Ananias was a Disciple I answer Yea but he restored sight to Saul and had vision 2. q Philip did no miracle to the Eunuch I answer We can neither conclude he did nor he did not from the Word for it is silent but he did miracles in Samaria 3. They that were scattered went every where preaching I answer Who they were or how they preached or what power they manifested is not laid down in the Word neither for nor against The Word is silent 9. That there is not such an Officer as Administrator in the whole Word but Apostles Evangelists Prophets Pastors Teachers Elders Rulers Deacons c. and therefore Administrator is an unwholsome word 10. None ought to give the Baptism now because there is none can give the gift of the Holy Ghost with it to make up that glorious supplement of gifts which it alwayes had and they are joyned both in the Word and practice as in Heb. 6.1 Doctrine of Baptisms and Laying on of hands and in their practice they were joyned as in act Act. 8.14 15 16. And it will appear in the Word that the Apostles did not so reckon of them single but together as in Act. 8.14 15 16. where it is said they were onely Baptized in the Name of the Lord Jesus but they prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Ghost So as Baptism by water and by the Holy Ghost being joyned together both in Institution Doctrine and Practice are not to be separated nor given in such a time wherein that of the Holy Ghost is not given For what God hath joyned together let no man put asunder 11. That it is as unreasonable to take any such Ordinance of Jesus Christ from any that is not distinctly specially spiritually powerfully enabled as the first dispensers as it is to take the word of any
bâ—leeving and placing a Religion upon a spirituâ—l perswasion called Faith which is more proportionable to an infinite God and an infinite way and depth of salvation then reason ever invented viz. for the soul to beleeve upon one even Jesus Christ in whom God hath laid up all love and fulnessâ— and so for man to become one with him who is God and Man and there cannot be a more rational way for man to become one with God then by one who is both God and Man 16. That though there be not such glorious powrings out of Spirit and such gifts as Beleevers both may and shall have yet all Beleevers ought to practice so far of the outward Ordinance as is clearly revealed they may 17. That the Scriptures or Gospel of the New Testament being as many hundred yeers old as from the Apostles even in that Original we have them no very material differences in Copies as it seems and though they have passed through the great Apostacy yet they have not had the power to corrupt them materially in their Original to advantage their heresies and corruptions which very constant preservation of Truth in the midst of the very Enemies of Truth is both a constant and standing miracle of it self and so we need not stay for a Ministery with miracle being we have a Word with miracle which in its matter subject power speaking of God of his Son God and Man of his Spirit the Actor in man from both by wayes of outward Ordinances of the depths windings and workings of reason c. is of as much efficacy to perswade as any thing else we can have and the way of the pure Spirit is a more glorious way of operation then any other of a visible sensual nature And God may be more glorified by quickening and spiritualizing a word and using the spiritually glorious Ministery of that then of man and they are far too low who look for their original teachings from man and not from the Word and Spirit CONCLUSION I Have drawn out this map of each opinion that your eye may travel over that in an hour which otherwise you might be a yeer in going over Thus each are discovered in a narrow yet full Discovery and I think all that are divinely rational will see no such cause to think that each hath attained so far that either they should presume in their degree or look down from the pinnacle of an infallibility upon each other I have set the strength and weaknesse of each opinion before it self that on the one side as it may glory so on the other side it may fear and be humble All I wish now is that we be all so far one at least in infirmity and this Common weaknesse as may be a ground of Common embodying and associating against the Common Enemy or Grand Antichrist as in States who when they are at lowest have least factions and when weakest are most peaceable with one another The GOSPEL or NEW TESTAMENT of JESUS CHRIST proved undeniably to be the very Word of God without Miracles to assure us of the particular duties in it Because there are some men now of more reason then sound belief I cannot but in a spiritual rationally way bear witnesse to our salvation in the written Word 1. IF there were not a Word or Will of God revealed in Laws and Ordinances written God were worse provided then the Law-givers of Nations and Kingdoms and the world were left to their own wills which is esteemed ridiculous in the eyes of all the Nations of the world in their very politike condition 2. The Laws and Ordinances contained in the Word or New Testamens bear onely the Image of a God in their holinesse purity righteousnesse glory infinitenesse eternity immortality which are all with many more things of like excellency there which are as the beams of light to the Sun or so many things of God revealing God 3. The Word is so tempered into a middle nature betwixt God and man as no Word can be more revealing the most glorious spiritual infinite things from a God in a mean literal figurative comparative significative way to man 4. To have a standing Word as the Gospel is is more for the glory and authority of a God then any ministery of man though with miracles and signes because such a Word where none can joyn themselves as Authors or Parties as in other wayes of dispensation by men men may joyn themselves doth undoubtedly hold forth most of God and of divine Authority and thus to maintain or preserve a Law or Word in the world is not so much with God as for Kings and Princes to maintain Statutes and Laws in their Kingdoms 5. A Word as the New Testament is may be as well a way and dispensation to an infinite God to make out himself by as any other either of dream or vision or Revelation or Oracle all being but wayes of a natural strain and condition no more then the Word 6. The very manner of dispensation or writing is such as hath the authority power wisdom counsâ—ls of a God the whole businesse of it being a work discovered to be begun by God and amongst men to set forth the glory of God the mercy love and wisdom of Gâ—d and the way by the Son of God and Spirit of God and all to be glorified with God and thus treating onely of things divine and a work divine in a way divine 7. We must either give up our selves to this Word wholly or not at aâ—l and then let the world and experience judge what kinde of Religion reason at large unbounded or unenlightened will bring forth by the former paterns of Heathenish and Gâ—ntilish Religion 8. Why should it not be thought the most clean and direct wâ—y for God to manifest himself to man by Word Gospel and Epistle and so by an infinite and invisible power and hand commend and convey it from age to agâ— from generation to generation as well as for men to make out their art reason knowledge experience into books and words written to their own and other generations 9. This Gospâ—l of Jesus Christ places Religion upon a more glorious transcendent way to sute with an infinite God then ever any device of man or reason could invent viz. upon faith upon a beleeving or spiritual perswasion wrought by the same God by which men are carried out into depths of infinitenesse and glory no way measurable nor discernablâ— but by this way of beleeving and there could never have been an engine contrived which could have gone from man into God but this of faith by God himself nor more for the advantage of the gloâ—y of a God taking all from the creature employing it wholly upon a God 10. There is more reason in this Gospel or New Testament in the way of Râ—ligion which it holds forth by Jesus Christ then ever could be thought on by the reason of man as for
Ordinance for Ordination c. Though the liberty of speaking lengthens the Debates and delays the Votes c. and so much the more because they are more in number then we and because their determinations are final as ours are not Answer For some things in my Book of Policy I praise the Lord I can look on them as on part of the darknesse I was in and I can freely joyn with any in censuring any unregenerate part in me as I esteem much of my Carnal reason to be When I was a childe I spake as a childe neither have I any fruit now as the Apostle sayes of some of those things Nor would I have any go thither for direction but so far as they find Scripture or sound Reason I cannot but give a Caution concerning this Book because I would have Readers to look on any thing from me as Luther speaks of himself as I receive in light And methinks I scarce do any thing which I could not with Augustine when it is done finde something to retract in it either something is too dead or too dark or too carnal Thus you see I willingly help you against my self and I account it a part of my condition here not to see all at once For the unseasonablenesse of my Quere you alleadge the Declaration of Parliament and the Covenant in Art 1. wherein they are ingaged to endeavour Reformation and the Ordinances c. Now where is my unseasonablenesse The Parliament is endeavouring c. May I contribute my moneys my vote my pains my informations to the Civil ingagements and not my notions to the Spiritual Are we not to bring in all our disoursements either Natural Civil or Spiritual into that publike Treasury Though you of the Assembly cast in of your aboundance may not the poor ones cast in their mite Are we not by the same Covenant bound to discover anything against God and the State and the glory and peace of both And if I finde my conscience perswading me such or such a thing is not accordingly ought I not by all the Obligations that are upon me of Gospel Parliament and Countrey peaceably and meekly to speak a word May we discover any thing to the State we conceive of malignity or danger in Civil things and not in Spirituals Is not the Spiritual or soul-liberty the more glorious liberty of the Subject We cannot but speak the things which we have seen and heard saith the Apostle And What you hear in the ear that speak you on the house top saith Christ We know who it was that said Prophesie not here for it is the Kings Chappel And for things of a Spiritual nature we are allowed almost the fulnesse of time for season Be instant in season and out of season saith Paul But What better season could I come in then such a one wherein things were but ripening and moving towards establishment Where nothing is setled there can be nothing disturbed Where nothing is concluded there can be nothing repealed Where nothing is established there can be nothing disordered But since you put me to a further account I shall give it My spirit was not my own so wholly then but his I hope whose motion I obeyed the Lords Such breathings of Heaven who dare safely quench It is as fire in the bonâ—â— sayes the Prophet and like that of Mordecai If thou altogether hold thy peace at this time c. And whereas you say that the Parliaments determinations are finall That holds better for me who might have spoken to much lesse purpose had I stayed till all had been done and the determinations ended and become final sure it was time then to speak before determinations were final or never and by your own account too for you are pleased to reckon up the proceedings of State in the businesse of Religion which are such as had I stayed I had had a worse season however as the Prophet says I have delivered my soul they were you know the foolish virgins that came not with their oil till the door was shut Whatever my Oil or my Lamp was yet I think it not agreeable to the wisedom of that Parable to come and knock onely when the door is not open Master Ley's Resolution pag. 6 7 8. The title of the Quere is baited with Truth and Peace He a private Divine to put such a Quere both of State and Religion and to suggest such a suspition of haste and to tax the Ministers for putting in for a power not consonant to Scriptures and Prudence c. His rendring the original word metaphorically His artificial colours Rhetorical c. And my marshalling his reasons in a right method Reply I have gathered up into one bundle your pieces of a lighter concernment I would not stay tything Annise and Cummin but I hasten to the weightier matters of the Law A word onely to each For baiting my Quere with Truth and Peace you allude to Christ's allegory that we are fishers of men and if I have no worse things to bait with then these two Truth and Peace none need I hope be afraid of the hook And for the proof of them both argument and time will evidence For me a private Divine to put a Quere of State and Religion What were John Hus Wickliff Luther Paphnutius who in their several ages gave out their testimonies They were but single men compared with Councils and Synods Not that I would compare with them who am lesse then the least of all the mercies of God yet they were but single though singular men And what if a private Divine Jesus Christ may bid a private man stand and speak to the people There is a law of the Spirit commands to speak as well as the Law of a State and though you speak by the later law another may speak by the former And what though a Quere both of Religion and State Is not our Covenant mixt accordingly of Religion and State Doth not the State it self mix with Religion where Churches are National And how can I speak properly but to both where both are in interest For my suggestion of a suspition of haste you know words and phrases are not the same to all one may interpret thus another thus I had no thought of Jehu's driving as you imply when I wrote I must lay the supposed crime at your own doors for it is none of mine nor have I nor any reason to tax that Honourable Senate whose counsels are grave and serious and deliberate Had I lookt for Jehu I should have lookt to another coast and quarter where they drive more furiously Why deal you not more candidly Why are you not more faithful in your interpretation to the Original For that of my taxing the Ministers for desiring power none have reason to speak but the guilty it concerns not the innocent It is not strange for some Ministers to affect Government or rather ruling we have so much
10. If we take his reason to stand immediately against obedience and so consequently against commands c. It is more formal but still as feeble Repugnant to Religion and reason against former Protestations and the Covenant for some will always scruple c. Reply Some of this might have been spared Let us have as much reason and as little reviling as may be Your reason is Because then neither Protestations nor Covenant of State can be administred for some will always scruple So as here is the force of your reason Because Protestations and Covenants in the State are put upon a people unwilling and malignant therefore Government should First a truth of Government and the establishment of it is but indirectly unsutably and disproportionably proved from Oaths and Covenants Indeed under the Old Testament and in the State of Israel Covenants were more agreeable to the way of that Church they were part of the Worship then and it was a way of obligation and engagement sitted more to the Policie of that Nation They were a People or Nation of themselves singled out from the world and marked by a carnal Ordinance and their Discipline was sitted to the whole Nation by God himself and so Covenants c. gathered them up from the world into their National way of Worship c. But now the way of Church and Worship changing and the Laws of such kinde of external Pedagogie ceasing and a more inward and spiritual Law coming in you might have done well ere you took things thus for granted to clear the way of Covenants under the Gospel and not to prove one probable thing by another Those of your way are against a little Church-covenant and why not a great one For the imposing of Protestations now c. It is not my work here to discusse nor am I against any way of State-security that may consist with sound Prudence and for the spiritual part of them wherein men covenant in the things of God let every one be fully perswaded in his own minde That is the Apostle's rule I am sure whatever any say to the contray and will stand In civil things I would have any way or designe of assurance that is fairly and justly Politick in spiritual things onely such ways of assurance as are Gospel-ways and may sute with the New Testament-believers And now you are to prove more then perhaps you thought on that is to clear a Church-covenant which many of your Way are against for though you condemn it in some Churches not of your Way yet a National Church-covenant you plead for And how can this be both true and false that a great Church-covenant is lawful and a little one unlawful a National Church-covenant lawful and a Particular or Congregational Church-covenant unlawful This onely by the way To shew you how one may mistake his way in a mist you were proving a Government and now you are engaged to prove Chuch-covenants which you are both for and against And yet after all this of Protestations and Covenants there is no fair proof of establishing a Government or imposing it in your way and designe from these It is not safe going to the State for a Patern for the Church If the State in certain seasons of unfaithfulnesse and unsettlement contrive any way of security or assurance necessity is often a law-maker in States yet not so in the Church will you from hence argue for a liberty in the Church Will you make Necessity your Gospel your Law-giver there Necessity is sometimes a suspender of Laws in the Gospel but no Law-maker Master Ley's Resolution pag. 10. But I answer I wonder an ingenuous man as M. Saltmarsh is should make such an Objection Reply These are good words and I hope you shall have no worse then you bring yet we must speak truth Master Ley's Resolution pag. 10. I answer The Church-government is such as in the chief parts of it is from the Word Reply You grant then the Government is but in some parts warrantable by the Word So was Episcopacy and Prelacy in some parts of it There is not any false Worship or Way but it hath some parts of truth in it The great Image had a head of gold c. The Mystery of Iniquity sits in the Temple of God c. The Whore of Babylon sits in skarlet decked with gold and precious stones and pearls Truth must be all one and the same and homogeneal not in parts The Jews had the Law but then their own traditions mingled There is one Lord one Faith not two Master Ley's Resolution pag. 10. Things of lesser moment in it though they are not directly from Scripture yet not repugnant they are of Prudence and agreeable to the best Reformed Churches Reply But Why of lesser moment All things are of moment in spirituals Indeed if they be such as be not the Gospel's they are then as you say of lesser moment and yet of moment too in another sense for Traditions of men make void the Commandments of God Nor are grounds of Prudence any Scripture-grounds to rule by Prudence hath let in more Will-worship then any thing Prelacy had its Prudence for every New additional in Worship and Government And if Presbytery take Prudence too let the Reader judge what may follow And what is that Not directly from Scripture yet not repugnant Surely Christ's rule is not such he opposes any Tradition to the Commandments of God Not directly from Scripture is repugnant to Scripture such is the onenesse entirenesse indivisibility and essentiality of the Truth He that is not with me is against me And for the Reformed Churches as a rule that is to set the Sun by the Dyal and not the Dyal by the Sun We must set the Churches by the Word and not Church by Church and the Word by the Church Master Ley's Resolution pag. 10 11. Because the practice of the Government belongs not to the peoples part but to the Ministers and Elders Because so far as concerns the peoples compliance they are to be instructed before they yeeld submission Because if any remain unsatisfied they are not to be put upon his Dilemma of sin or misery or to be ruled with the rod but meeknesse 2 Cor. 4.21 2 Tim. 2.25 Because the ignorance of the people generally which he would have for a reason to suspend it ought to be rather a reason for expedition that they may practically know it for while it is unknown it is slandered which might have been more amiable Because his two Texts make not onely against the suspending for a time but for ever I wish he would preach such Texts as these to his people 1 Thess. 5.12 13. 1 Tim. 5.17 Heb. 13.7 17. Reply To your first It belongs not to the people c. It seems then the people must be kept out from all intermedling But I would have the people mark well what kinde of Government that is that sits upon
Many disposed to division heighten their spirits to contumacie and contempt To that other of his it is possible while time is given opinions may be sooner at peace I answer 1. Possibilitie is no plea against probabilitie nay cleare experience that by the Brethrens amiable carriage they have driven on their designe with a politike activitie and gained more by their adversaries slownesse than the goodnesse of their cause To that of his Fire let alone under wood and so to dye out c. I answer 1. Will fire under drie wood quench it selfe or the setling of a Government be as the Bellows 2. The contrarie is plaine by examples of Anabaptists and other Sectaries in Germany whom Luther at first mediated for with Frederick Duke of Saxony but after he was glad to stir up the Princes and people of Germany for extinguishing a common combustion To that of his c. The contentions of Brethren are like the Bars of a Castle Prov. 18.19 I answer 1. This is his seal to his politike Aphorism But will the bars of a Castle be taken by letting alone We have not found it so in our wars c. Reply To your first That we must not clasp in the Camp and divide in the citie You say well we are to agree or clasp both in camp and citie and to divide in neither To your second Mr. Saltmarsh in his Politikes I told you before I dare not allow my selfe the priviledge of an Aphorism of light then when it was rather night than day with me as I told you You know Pauls regenerate part or law of his mind quarrelled with the law of his Members so doth mine so Luther Augustine c. To that of delay occasioning heresies Whether may not your setling things thus be as great an heresie as you complaine against Be sparing You may call these Truths which you now call heresies Paul preached that doctrine after which before he destroyed To that of many heightning their spirits into contempt Do not aggravate against your Brethren remember your owne professed ingenuitie in these words I would not excite Authoritie to needlesse severitie To that of the Brethrens politike advantage on your slow pace and amicable carriage as you say Give not over your amicablenesse for that their policie is no warrant against your dutie and if they be politike blame them in print For my part I hate to see in any too much of man in the businesse of God but if some of the Brethren be politike what is that to the rest who wait for the Spirit in the simplicitie of their owne But it may be you mistake the advantages and put their encreasing upon Brethrens policie which is the power of the Gospell You know in Christs time many beleeved on him and the people went after him and yet not policie but his power gathered them To that of your fire and dry wood and that your setling a Government would be no bellows Who are the dry wood you mean and what fire and what by the bellows If it be this that the setling a government will quench our contentions yea and it may quench more then it ought even something of the Spirit may be quenched by it Persecution may put out many a candle of the Lords lighting and many a coale kindled from his Altar But take heed there be not more fire in the bellowes then in the wood To that of the Anabaptists and Sectaries quenched by Luthers mediation I dare not believe your Historian nor take all against them from the Pen of an enemie He that takes the Parliaments Battells from an Oxford Pen shall read nothing but Rebellion rather then Religion And me thinks I observe much here in your observation to the contrarie We may rather think that Germany is a field of bloud to this day for shedding the blood of so many consciences for some points of diffâ—rence And for Luthers mediation against them Look well and tell me how much the Lutherans there have advanced in the Reformation Have they not rather stood like Ioshua's Sun where he left them Let England take warning by Germany To that of the Brethrens contentions which are like bars of a Castle and must not then be let alone you say as in our Wars Yea go on take these offended Brethren these Castles in your militarie way but then let your Warfare be spirituall your weapons not carnall put on the armour of light c. and take them by a Gospelsiege and we are satisfied But if you take them with the power of the Magistrate with sword and staves as they took Christ if you come in this Gospel-Controversie to take them as the Parliament takes in their townes and cities by force of arms and compulsive Artillerie as your instance seems to imply take heed lest you shed more spirituall blood to that under the Altar that never ceases to cry How loâ—g Lord how long Master Ley's Resolution Pag 32. To that he saith We have not yet any experience of our new Clergie Answ How can there be experience of them if there be no government to try them withall Reply So as you will have an hazard run both in State and Church for a new experiment upon the Ministers but sure your Statists will tell you it is not safe trying experiments with States they are too vast bodies for that What think you of that Physitian that will cast his Patient into a disease to try a cure on him You know the old morall adagie Turpiùs â—jicitur quà m non admittitur hospes One is sooner kept out then cast out Master Ley's Resolution Pag. 32. To that It is not safe trusting a power too far into those hands Answer He need not much feare the government will be so qualified so disposed for the persons that manage it c. Reply These are faire promises It is pity that government should ever be set up that cannot tell beforehand how well it will carry it selfe Oh I saith Absolon If I were King it should not be thus But what is a qualified government that is not Christs I can never hope to gather grapes of thornâ—s or figs of thistles Sure it can never be well for the trees of the Forrest when the Bramble will reigne Master Ley's Resolution Pag. 33. There are many of note who affirme the best way to suppresse the multiplicaity of Sects is to let them have scope and they will run themselves out of breath but I cannot give my Vote false teachers are not be tolerated no not for an houre Gal. 2.5 Reply I would there were more such of that minde I am sure it is safest and soundest It is safest there is no such danger in that of crucifying Christ in ignorance of fighting against God And soundest for so they die out most naturally by their owne unsoundnesse without noise and commotion Sometimes the cure makes the greater disease when the cure is not naturall but violent For that of Pauls
written by my dimmer light And if your Government be built upon no better Principles then mine I cannot but be out of conceit with that Government being so farre out of conceit with mine own Principles and it makes me thinke the worse of it because my former Principles fit it so well Those Principles you speak on are partly of Civill power and the Sword and the Dominion or Scepter in the Gospel is more Spiritual You say of my Text in the Revelation Revel. 18.1 that as I began so I end with misapplication of Scripture Misapplication is a word soonâ—r writ then proved and my Reasons were rathâ—â— crowded then ordered in my Paper The Scripture was this For the Angel that came down from heaven hath great power and the earth is lightned with his glory Which Scripture there applyed doth hint to any that wil not rather cavil then interpret that my only reason for delay of Government was in this An Angel was yet to come with power and glory or the Gospel would fill the earth with more light so as we should not shut up our selves too soon in the dark And now Reader judge whether it be my misapplication or his mis-interpretation SPIRITUALL PRINCIPLES drawn forth gospel-Gospell-Truth is one and the same THat which is onely in some parts of it warrentable by the Word is not purely nor in a Scripture-way warrantable For there is not any Will-worship but it hath something from the Patern of the true The Samaritaine-worship was copied after the Iewish and the Iewish when Christ came had Priests and Temple and Sacrifices and was copied by the Law but then there was Traditions and Commandments of men That is pure Gentilism which hath no Image of Gospel nor legal Truth Antichrist sits in the very Temple of God though rather upon it False Christs call themselves Christs as well as the true The great Image had a head of Gold though feet of Iron and Clay Every Heresie hath a scripture-Scripture-Word in it But Truth must be all one and the same and Homogeneal not in parts so but all so There is but one Lord one Faith c. Prudence and Consequences are the great Engines of Will-worship THings of Prudence meerly are not to be admitted into the Spirituall way and Gospel-designe Prelacy had its Prudence for every new additionall in Worship and Government And once let Prudence open a door and then will more of man crowd in then the Law of God can keep out Nor is that to be admitted which is so received a Maxime Though not directly yet not repugnant to the Word Christs rule is not such he opposes any Tradition to the Commandements of God Not direct from Scripture is indirect and repugnant though not to the very letter of such words yet to the form and Analogy of truth to the generall Scripture-law viz. the will of God that nothing shall be added nor diminished and ye are onely my friends saith Christ if ye do what I command you and the Lord will raise you up a Prophet him shall ye hear For if any thing of Prudence is to be let in then something of Tradition for Prudence can make nothing higher nor purer nor better man can but give his own Image to the things he makes himself though he make them up of divine materials from Scriptures yet the form none but the Lord himself can give and the form is that which stamps Christs Image upon every Truth Every thing in the Word hath a form that is it is such a thing of truth and not another Nothing but Gods power and will can make a thing Truth his power creates it and his will creates it such a Truth Nothing is agreeable to the will of Christ but the very will of Christ The will of Christ is the onely Legislative power in the Gospel Nothing is agreeable to his will but what he wills and every thing is repugnant to his will but what he wills So as this will is the supream generall Law and indeed the very form or essence of Scripture and the Word of God And whatsoever is devised by Prudence though upon Scripture-materials yet being not the work of this will nor having the Stamp or Image upon it is none of Christs but as repugnant as any other Tradâ—tion or Invention of men And here let us look to that new though old design against Truth the most subtill undiscernable and divinest kinde of Will-worship in the world that which some call Scripture-consequence an unwholsome word as it hath been used for under colour of consequence what Conclusions may be promoted What may not Reason draw from Scripture and what may it not fashion like a Truth But consider in Parliament Laws or Ordinances or Commissions is it lawfull to take them and from every part of them to draw out results of our own and when there is but one Law make many subordinate Laws of our own and frame Laws out of Laws and Ordinances out of Ordinances and Commissions out of Commissions No sure But we must keep to that one generall entire litterall Law and Will of the Parliament Is it thus in Laws humane and not much more in Ordinances divine Yea â—here is the same onenesse entirenesse indivisibility and essentiality of the Truth Nor do I here disapprove any Scripture-consequence if meerly consequent and not formed up into a Law by meer reason for then man makes Laws from the Laws of God and this is not the least engine that Antichrist hath wroughâ— with The People are Brethren and Saints in Christs Church but in Antichrists Parishioners and Servants WHat kinde of government is marked out in Scriptures for sitting on the waters or people Christ governs by the people ministerially not over the people authoritatively onely and the people being once in his Church-way lose their old capacity for a new and are raised up from people to Brethren to Churches It is a saying of Master Goodwins and Master Nye not so pleasant as true The Clergy had at first the golden ball of government amongst themselves and it is not much mended anywhere but in that Church where the people have their interests as well as others they are the Clergy properly a notion which the Ministers got onely to themselves till of late The interest of the people in Christs Kingdome is not onely an interest of compliancy and obedience and submission but of consultation of debating counselling prophesying voting c. and let us stand fast in that liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free Presbytery it selfe is founded on Principles of separation which yet they condemn for Schism in other Churches nay is the greatest separation WHat is a Presbytery over Congregations or a Congregation but a Church gathered out of a Church Nay Is not that the onely Church and the remainder of people made but an accessory or something of another kinde or rather the Nation or Kingdome which is only subject to this power supream And