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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A33981	The vindication of liturgies, lately published by Dr. Falkner, proved no vindication of the lawfulness, usefulness, and antiquity of set-forms of publick ministerial prayer to be generally used by, or imposed on all ministers, and consequently an answer to a book, intituled, A reasonable account why some pious nonconformists judge it sinful, for them to perform their ministerial acts in by the prescribed forms of others : wherein with an answer to what Dr. Falkner hath said in the book aforesaid, the original principles are discovered, from whence the different apprehensions of men in this point arise / by the author of the Reasonable account, and Supplement to it.	Collinges, John, 1623-1690.	1681 (1681)	Wing C5345; ESTC R37651	143,061	307

doth not Prayer as I told him p. 61. is in Scripture called a crying to God a wrestling with him a powring out of our Souls it must be with strong cries and groans Is there any such thing said of Reading the Scriptures Or of Singing Psalms Attention of our thoughts indeed is required in all so are such degrees of Fervor as are proper to those duties but what if God will require some degrees of Homage to be performed to him one way some another some in a way not capable of the like degrees of Attention and Fervour as others are such I take reading the Scriptures to be is it not enough for us to do that duty with such degrees of Attention and Fervour as he requires in that duty tho we do not do it with such degrees of Attention and Fervour as in that duty he hath not required Or shall it be concluded by any man of reason that the mean which God hath appointed by which we may serve him in one duty as in Reading the Scripture it is nothing but the use of our ability to read which is not by reason of the infirmity of our nature capable of such an attention of our thoughts which will wander if they have the least liberty may be used in another duty of another Species where God requires other degrees of Attention and Fervour or that the mean which he hath given us for that duty is not necessary but that duty also may lawfully be performed in the use of a mean which doth hinder such degrees of Attention and Fervour 19. This was the substance of one of my Answers tho a little further opened now what saith our Vindicator to this Truly little what he saith is p. 135. in these words and no more But what he saith That there are different workings of the Soul towards God in Singing and in Prayer I suppose he will upon further consideration discern to be an oversight since the Application to God for the same things require the same Pious Exercises of Mind whether it be in Prose or Meeter and it was another oversight that he declares me to know and confess what he thus asserts when I never declared any such thing but know the contrary As to the last Clause Reader judge see Libertas Eccles p. 123. Both in reading the Scriptures and in Prayer our hearts ought to be religiously moved towards God tho in somwhat a different manner Wherein have I wronged him here Neither see I reason to acknowledg the oversight let him prove if he can that we are obliged to Sing Psalms with an equal degree of Fervor of Spirit at all times as we are to Pray Though we may sing the Words of a Prayer yet it is more then I know that we are to make those words our Petitions or to address our Souls unto God for the same things which are the matter of the Psalm we Sing If I thought so I should hardly sing many of Davids Psalms having no occasion for the things he asked of God Nor do I think Singing is the Application of our Souls to God for obtaining Mercies but the Praedication of the Holy Name and Will of God and only to differ from Reading the Scripture as the first is done with the Modulation of the Voice the other not so which Modulation is required as having some force in it to excite several Affections either of Joy or Grief according to the matter sung Further in the same page he saith Tho there be different Acts of the Mind exercised in these duties yet that Consideration Reverence Faith Submission and other Gracious Dispositions which suit the special parts of Divine truth doth require as much seriousness diligence and care in reading the holy Scriptures But doth it require as much Fervour of Spirit and Affections That is the Question and the contrary was shewed by the Phrases wherein Prayer is in Scripture expressed but as to this not a word onely he had shewed before that a Form of Words in Prayer doth not hinder any Exercises of Piety therein What he hath formerly said I have formerly answered I leave the Judgment to any Intelligent Reader 20. I had further told him That the Scriptures are Divine Forms and reading them is a Divine Precept and the Forms we Sing Divine Songs and the Singing of a Congregation by a Form naturally necessary and the duty impossible to be performed but by a Form The Question was only stated about Humane Forms and in a Case where no such thing is necessary all the World will see the inconclusivenes of such Arguings I shall not trouble my self to answer such things further which nothing relate to the Question in issue which himself owned to be plainly and cleerly stated I wish I could say that on his side it had been as plainly and clearly Argued against CHAP. V. An Answer to what the Vindicator hath said in his Third Section of Chap. 3. concenring the General use or Impositions of Forms in the Primitive Church Some further things noted of the Canons of the Provincial Councels of Laodicea Carthage and Milevis Further Discourse upon the head of this Argument waved because the Argument it self if true concludeth nothing as to Lawfulness or Unlawfulness 1. I am now come to the Argumentum Palmarium of our Adversaries in this Question the pretended Practice of the Church for 1300 years Indeed I always looked upon the Practice of Men a very poor Argument where the Question was about the Lawfulness or Vnlawfulness of an Action And it is doubtless no Argument tho Ex Abundanti I did speak somthing as to that point and since at the request of some Friends have spoken much more in a Supplement to that Book I shall now say little but refer my Reader to my former Book and the Supplement to it 2. Our Author hath told us That it is not probable that such excellently Devout and Judicious Men as the 4th and 5th Century abounded with should not discern helps and hindrances of Devotion I told him it was possible Like one in Cathedra he tells me This is a rash and contumelious Expression What is That some particular Men may be mistaken in a particular point This is all can be made of my words and such a point too as is of a mutable Nature for I have shewed before That that may be an hindrance to Devotion to one which is not to another which is most certainly true Is this a contumely when David saith All Men are Liars and tho he spake it in haste yet it hath thus much truth in it that there are in all Men grains of Falshood and Error and Fability Did ever any modest and judicious man talk at this rate When our Articles tell us That the Churches of Jerusalem Alexandria Antioch and all Rome erred both in matters of Worship Ceremonies and Doctrine Artic. 1562. n. 19. may not we say it was possible that some Churches in the

liberty it ought not to be determined by Superiors because it was the VVill of God that his People should have liberty in the case and that liberty is a part of the Institution 15. In the Old Law where a strict Prescription of all Acts Parts and Means of VVorship can be modestly denyed by none yet in the burnt offering of Fowls Levit. 1.14 the people were left to liberty to bring either Turtle Doves or any other Young Pidgeons and in the Womans Purification Lev. 12.6 she had the like liberty I would gladly know now if our Vindicator or any sober man thinks that the Superiors in the Church or State of the Jews might have determined the Jews and by their commands enjoyned all the Jews to bring none but Turtle Doves Or none but Young Pigeons of another kind Or what president there is in Scripture of any Ecclesiastical or Civil power that ever arrogated and assumed such a liberty or declared that they judged such a thing lawful This I think sufficient to have spoken to what our Answerer saith as to the first Question 16. The Second Question was about the Superiors power of commanding in Religious Acts. A grave and weighty Question an Agreement in which will bring us to a present issue as to all our Religious differences Let us see what our Vindicator will grant in the case He tells us p. 185. That if any Inferior or any person whatsoever accounteth any thing to be forbidden proceeding upon any good and true grounds no such thing may be appointed being in it self evil whether the Superior think it not necessary or by a mistake thinks it necessary We thank him for this it is enough for us nor shall we need repeat any thing more he hath in this Chapter said I have onely this Question to ask Who as to the Inferiors Practice must judg whether the Inferiors judgment proceedeth upon just and true grounds Let us but have this point freely and clearly spoken to If he saith the Superior must judge all this is just nothing for those Superiors must be prodigiously wicked that shall command their Inferiours to do that which they judge the Inferiors upon good and true grounds judge unlawful This were for him to command things which he knew to be sinful 17. If he saith as he must do if he will maintain the Religion of Protestants That tho the Superior be the judge of the lawfulness or unlawfulness of his commands so far as concerneth his own Act in commanding yet every Inferiour must judge of the lawfulness or unlawfulness of his Act in obeying and the truth and falshood of the grounds upon which he proceeds It is what we hold and agree in 18. But still the true Question remains upon supposition That the Superior and Inferiour differ in their Aprehensions of a thing the Superiour thinking upon such as he thinks good and true grounds that the thing is lawful The Inferior judging upon what he thinks true and good grounds that it is unlawful Whether the Superior can command his Inferiors such things in the VVorship of God Qu. which he judgeth not necessary from the Light of Nature or Revealed Will of God and the Inferior judgeth sinful and what he may not do So then there are two things we yield in the case 19. That as to things which are meerly Political and secular the Magistrate may command what he judgeth necessary or expedient for the ends of his Government of which things he hath no Judge save God alone Superior to him and the Inferiour must obey him where Gods Will doth not plainly controul and if it doth controul him he must patiently suffer the penalty for not doing them for his private Conscience is no Judge of these things further then as to his own practice whether they be contrary to the Rule of Gods Word or no. 20. That as to things of a more Spiritual Nature which concern the Worship of God the Magistrate is bound to command what he after diligent inquiry into the law of God judgeth necessary that is commanded by God in his Word and to forbid what he judgeth there forbidden and in these things the Inferiour is bound to obey If in these things he judgeth diversly from his Superiour he cannot do the things but must patiently suffer and the matter in difference must be by God determined at the last day where the Magistrate tho it then appears he was in a mistake may hope for Mercy because he did what he did in the integrity of his heart provided he neglected not due means for finding out of the Will of God nor in his Punishment for disobedience exceeded the Rules of Scripture and right Reason and Justice 21. But we do not think that in the Worship of God especially as to the Acts Parts or Means of it those being things of the truth or falshood of which the Will of God alone can determine and which he hath sufficiently determined in his Word The Superior without sin can command what himself doth not from the will of God judge necessary but he knoweth the Inferiour judgeth to be sinful 1. Because he hath no power in commanding things of this nature more then the Kings of Israel and Judah had who had no power to bind up all the Israelites to bring Turtle Doves when Gods prescription had left them at liberty either to bring them or young Pidgeons nor was ever any such power assumed by Magistrates under the ordinary Circumstances of Magistrates that is being no Prophets and divinely inspired as were David and Solomon who both were Pen-men of Scripture 2. Because such commands must necessarily be for Destruction not for Aedification and the Apostle declared he had no such power 2 Cor. 13.10 such commands must necessarily be against Charity tending to destroy Peoples Souls 22. But as to this our Vindicator tells us That real Charity providing for the good and profit of the Souls of Men is of far greater value then that which I call Charity gratifying and complying with men in their mistakes How properly this is spoken and how prettily the Question here begged let any ordinary Reader judge was not I arguing for the good and profit of Peoples Souls and Bodies too That which I call Charity is what the Apostle calls so Rom. 14.15 If thy Brother be grieved with thy Meat which thou mayest eat or let alone now walkest thou not charitably that is in eating and so giving him occasion to sin destroy not him with ●y meat for whom Christ dyed Can any Divine think that God in that Text hath not said to all Magistrates in the matters relating to my Worship make not him to sin by thy commands which thou mayest or mayest not as thou thinkest at thy pleasure give out for whom Christ dyed 23. I appeal now to all rational and intelligent persons whether the Vindicator or I have spoken here most sense and pertinencies as to the matter in

Question Whether Forms of Prayer in the publick Ministry may be universally used or imposed This is all which I can find in this Chapter of our Vindicator worth any notice as to the Question in hand for what is spoken as to other Rites Ceremonies and Gestures the lawfulness or unlawfulness of them it doth not concern our present purpose Let us first have done with this single Question and then we will if he pleaseth discourse other things in the mean time I intend not to swell a Book with Discourses De Omni Ente Besides it may be that by our close discourse upon this Question we shall be better prepared for others which in my mind are much lighter by understanding upon what principles we distinctly argue and first exposing the truth or falshood of them to the judgment of the World Our Vindicators Principles in this Chapter seem to be 1. That words in Vocal Ministerial Prayer are neither parts nor means in that Worship 2. That Superiors may determine whatever he judgeth God hath left at liberty in his Worship though the Inferior thinks they are not there left at liberty I am not of his mind CHAP. VII Containing a Reply to what the Vindicator hath said Chap. 5. p. 193 c. The Vindicator grants the Superior may tye up Ministers and People to Forms in the publick Congregation and in Families but not in Closets His reason why not in Closets holds as to Congregations and Families They have new Emergences daily The Evil of tying up all to Forms expressed exemplyfied in the neglect or omission of Praises to God for deliverance from the late Hellish Popish Plot and of Prayers for the perfecting of that Salvation The Vindicator saith nothing cogent to prove that Forms of Sermons ought not to be as Universally imposed and used as Forms of Prayer 1. THe Answerer p. 193 comes to my fourth Argument which I laid thus To agree a Principle which being agreed is of sufficient force to restrain the total exercise of the Gift of Prayer is sinful Reaso Account p. 93. But to agree it lawful for Ministers ordinarily in their Solemn Prayer to perform their Acts of Prayer by the prescribed Forms of other Men were to agree such a Principle Ergo. I supposed none would deny the first Proposition because it could not be denid● without allowing man to suppress the total exercise of a most eminent Gift of the Holy Spirit of God I proved the Second Proposition by an inductio● of the several kinds of Prayer and shewing That the Superior had as much Authority to command the use of Forms in the Pulpit as in the Deske in our Families as in either yea ' and in our Closets too and the Inferiors Obligation to Obedience would be as much concluded as to one place as another because it related to the Superiors Dominion and so far as that extended so far the Inferiours Obligation to Obedience must extend This was the sum of what I said what saith our Vindicator to all this 2. Will he deny the Major I find not a word in his whole Chapter that way But it is the Minor which his loose discourse seemeth to deny but before he doth it he must again be premising 1. That he hath before shewed that Mens Ability of Expression which is not properly the Gift of Prayer are not on other accounts necessary to be used unless where they be requisite for the better performing the Worship of God What he hath said about the Gift of Prayer I have answered and proved That an Ability fitly to express our minds to God in Prayer is properly the Gift of Prayer if we speak as we do of Vocal Ministerial Prayer For the other part of this sentence besides what I have further said before to prove them a Divine Natural Proper Mean I would again know of him whether every man as to his own practice must not be judge of his better performing the Wo●●hip of God if he must he hath said nothing 3. As to his premising that he hath before shewed the usefulness of set Forms in themselves for the Pablick Offices of Religious Worrship I have pr●ved that as to Prayer they cannot be established 〈◊〉 without mans taking upon him to appoint one Essential part of VVorship in Vocal Prayer which himself denieth man a power to do I have also proved Gods Institution of another mean viz. our own Abilities 4. But he tells us That he not founding their lawfulness and expediences meerly upon obedience to Superiors can be no ways concerned to determine and enquire after the extent or boundaries of the Authority of our Governours in this thing But yet I hope we neither being able to see nor yield any such usefulness of them for all Ministers must enquire whether we be not obliged to the use of them from the meer command of Superiors and if in that thing they be not our Superiors that is have no power to command we can have no obligation upon us to obey nor are any of those great Topicks from an Obligation to Vnity and Submission to be used towards us for why should not those who are so Zealous for Forms as well unite with us as we with them especially considering that words in Vocal Prayer are an Essential part of Worship the Calves of our Lipps which must be creatures onely of Gods making If our Vindicator will only argue them lawful because they are useful we are not of that mind so let it be a Problematical Question but then let not us be railed at as Schismaticks and sinfully disobedient to Governours who judge them not lawful and so not the object of Superiors power 5. Besides in so tender a thing as Gods Worship every thing as we can fancy useful is not therefore lawful Indeed the usefulness of things in Gods Worship must be concluded from a preceeding Prescription of God No Act Part or Mean of Worship is useful which God hath not directed by the Light of Nature or in his Revealed Will. 6. As to what he tells me p. 194. n. 4. I answer That no good Christian can yield a Reverence to Superiors where he cannot save his Reverence to God in the first place and that he cannot do till he be satisfied that his Superior is his Superior in that case i. e. That God hath given him a power to command and to determine him in the case if it be the Will of God that another Mean should be used in that case by those that have it Or if it be the Will of God that as to any Act of Worship a mean should be left to his Peoples liberty as under the Law it was in case of the Turtle Doves or young Pigeons before named It is no Reverence to but a sinful flattering of Superiors to tell them by our Tongues Pens or Practice that they may appoint such means as God hath not appointed or that they may appoint and determine where it is

different Notions they may vary in their Prayers and Exhortations So they may in their Sermons before the Sacrament and what help for that 12. His last Reason was thus delivered That this may be an Evidence to other Churches in future times after what way we Worship God and that such a Church is in its measure a pure and incorrupt Church I answered where hath God required such an Evidence He tells me We need not any special command for every good thing Nor need every good thing be brought into Publick Worship and made a part of it I always took the recital of the Creed to be a good thing but no Part of Worship and thus himself answers what I next said That to this end Forms of Sermons are also needful on this Account I told him a publick Confession of Faith is a sufficient Testimony He tells us it is so as to our Doctrine but not as to our Worship Well let the● be then a Law made with all our hea●●s That none in the publick Worship of God should do any other Act nor use any other mean but what God in his Word hath established We should think this Act as good an Act as ever was made And this would give a better Evidence to the World then Forms can how we Worship God And now I am come to an end of my long journey where I have not been tyred with the length of my way but for want of one Stile or Difficulty to give my hand or pen the least stop I am resolved without great reason to tread this path no more I see there is no end of Writing where Men will take a liberty to repeat what is said as they please and run Vagaries nothing concerning the matter in hand onely studying to divert the Reader from understanding the truth and how to expose those that will venture to contradict their Sentiments Let those who have a mind to talk at this rate talk on for all me and please themselves with the noises themselves make and with having the last word FINIS 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 A REVIEW Of the Third Section of the Third CHAPTER OF THE VINDICATION OF LITURGIES Beginning Vindicat. p. 136. 1. THose who are but meanly versed in this Controversie will easily understand that our Adversaries three great Topicks are Vnity Authority and Antiquity Themselves know as well as we and will sometimes confess that to argue from the Institution of God and Chri● to the Institutions of Men is very weak and the Pleas from Christs using the same words as we translate it from the Precepts for speaking the same thing and glorifying God with one Mouth from the command to Timothy That Intercessions and Prayers and Supplications should be made for all Men from Pauls order for bringing the Parchments from Troas are such as none of them would offer to bring in the Schools being fit only for a Countrey Auditory They also know that not one of their pretended Arguments from Reason will conclude either necessity or lawfulness but Vnity Obedience to Superiors and Antiquity are the three great Bulwarks from which they think to Batter us who are of another mind Indeed none of all these will conclude the general use of such Forms of Prayer as the Question speaks of either necessary or unlawful nor can have any force upon an Intelligent Soul till the point of Lawfulness be determined within it self for Peace is no further required of us then as it can be kept together with our Peace with God and who so perswades another by Sin to seperate himself from God that he may keep an Vnion with Men hath not learned his Doctrine from the Old or New Testament which commands us to follow Peace and Holiness which certainly lies in a first respect to Gods Commands and no further then as much as in us lyeth and as far as it is possible to have Peace with all Men which must certainly be interpreted not concerning our Natural but Moral Power nor are we to obey man but in Subordination to God and in my preceding Discourse I have I think made it appear That no man hath power to appoint an Essential part of Worship which in Vocal Prayer words must be nor when God hath prescribed One Mean in Worship to direct another nor yet when God hath commanded us to serve him with the utmost Attention and Fervency and consequently to use all means he hath given us in order to that end can any command of men limit us to a Mean which we upon experience find hinders our Attention and Fervency nor yet when he hath in any duty promised the influence of his Holy Spirit can Man command any such mode of performance of that duty as must necessarily shut it out which must be in the present case if any influence of the Holy Spirit upon our Words in Prayer be any part of his promise And for the Practice and Examples or Opinions of good and Holy Men it is impossible they should further lay hold upon our Consciences in this matter then to double our thoughts upon the matter in question to make us seriously to weigh on what grounds they Act our selves being as likely to be mistaken as they This made me pass over our Vindicators third Section of his Third Chapter wherein he laboureth to load us with the prejudice of the Constant Practice of the Church against our Opinion and Practice something slightly looking upon it but as loss of time and paper to reply to an Inconcludent Argument and seeing that the question being about Sin or Duty no Practice could conclude on either side 2. But yet as the most of Men so I my self have a great Reverence for things that can be made out to be Vniversal Traditions Of which nature I hardly know any thing not plainly revealed in Scripture except the observation of the Christian Sabbath and Infant Baptism neither of which stand upon that single foot much less do I think that there is any such thing to be pleaded for Ministers Vniversal porformance of their Ministerial Acts in Solemn Prayer by the prescribed Forms of other Men. Though therefore enough is said partly in the Reasonable Account partly in the Supplement to answer whatsoever hath been said of this nature yet having my pen yet in my hand I shall add a few lines to justifie what is before said against the Attaques upon it and to shew the weakness of what is brought a-new in the Vindication 3. Only because we are so apt to vary from the Question I desire the Reader would first consider what we do not deny and therefore needeth no proof 1. We deny not but from the beginning Publick Prayers Were made by the Minister and Congregation 2. We also believe That very early the use of the Lords Prayer was general in the publick Congregations tho we find none enjoyned it under Penalties 3. We do believe That even from the first there were