the reall presence of the body and bloud of Iesus Christ in the holy Sacrament And shall moreouer be verified in that the Doctors haue obiected to the Ministers some arguments against their Supper to make them enter into the same Vnto which they haue nothing answered or so impertinently at the least as one may iudge by the reading of their answere that they fled the Lists as yet also they do by their last writing hiding as much as they possibly can what they thinke of the Supper albeit they haue bene admonished to answere therevnto plainely and to purpose Whether the Doctors or the Ministers retyre shall bee seene by effect For albeit the Ministers will not answer the Doctors will not leaue to aduise them thereof and to manifest to all the world the intollerable errors which bee in the Supper and in all the doctrine of the Ministers Who beeing demaunded dare not confesse and auouch by writing what hath beene written by the inuenters of theyr Supper Now to begin to speake thereof the Ministrrs do maintaine it to be celebrated according to the ordinances of Iesus Christ and after the fashion which the Apostles vsed and all the Primitiue Church whiles it flourished and abode in it puritie Wherevpon the Doctors demaund how long the Ministers esteeme the doctrine of the Supper to abide in it puritie And whether the Church were not then as pure in the doctrine of all the other articles as of this Furthermore whether since that time there is not some place in the world where the true doctrine of the Supper and of other Articles haue beene retained and conserued and whether such doctrine hath euer continued without interruption and in what place and by whom hath it bene preached and set forth and from age to age The Doctors desire the Ministers to make declaration thereof for that it much importeth For as much as before Caluin put forth his Catechisme there was no memorie that such doctrine as he taught had bene held in any Region and the Supper was not celebrated after the fashion and maner as it is celebrated in the Church called Reformed The Doctors would willingly cheare vp the Ministers who are much disquieted in their writing because the Doctors haue said that their Supper differeth not from a common banquet except in that it is worse as being prophane and polluted To meete wherwithall the Ministers haue made a great narration of the whole action of their Supper and by faire shewes which haue a forme of all godlinesse they endeuour to make it very commendable and to couer a new nothing betweene two platters And contrariwise that they may tread vnder foote and abase the thrise precious sacrifice of the body and bloud of Iesus Christ in the Masse by renting in peeces some shewe of him as if they were vsed without reason or signification which the Ministers vnderstand not or make semblance not to vnderstand But things ought not to be prised and esteemed by their shewes but according to their value nature and truth Moreouer the Ministers should foresee that all the Sects which bee now in the world against the Church Catholique for the act of the holy Sacrament doo vse at the least as faire shewe as they And were they thereof asked there is not any which would not enforce himselfe to proue that it approacheth nearer to Iesus Christ and his Apostles and the Primitiue Church then the pretended reformed Religion dooth Concerning all which the Doctors referre them to the writings of the Lutherans Zuinglianists Anabaptists Trinitaries Maister Alasco and such like For vnreasonable it is by such faire deceits to preferre the Supper of the Ministers to other Sects to iudge it good holy vnpolluted and according to the word of God but to repute it rather polluted and defiled with impietie for as much as it cloaketh a lye in stead of truth and giueth the shewe of pietie to impietie and falshood Also the Doctors haue not dispraised the Supper of the Ministers for the praises therein giuen to God or for the confession they there make of their sinnes or the preaching if it contained the truth or for other preparation But therefore did they say it was detestable because against the ordinance of Iesus Christ it contained not but common bread and wine and yet that they attributed vnto it some spirituall effect and other faire pretext of godlinesse The which is an abhominable thing and inuentiō of Sathan who endeuoureth by such maner of Supper to abolish and extinguish the true Supper according to the institution of Iesus Christ and to depriue the faithfull of the fruite and veritie of the same Supper in causing them to giue common bread onely instead of the body and blood of our sauiour Iesus Christ The Doctors could as well recyte the euill shewes as the Ministers do recyte the good which be in their Supper as the secrets the new enterprises practised vnder colour and shadow of assemblies made in their said Supper But to the ende the Ministers reproach not the Doctors that Priests spake of armes of contributions c. they passe it ouer with silence and referre them to the thing it self and wil content themselues to declare some causes whereby they maintaine that there is no truth in the same Supper according to the institution of Iesus Christ which are such as follow That in the Supper of the Ministers and theyr like no consecration can be made of the matter of bread wine which are there proposed And that for this cause there is not in the same matter any change made be it before or in or after the vse And by consequence that the bread and wine in such a Supper cannot be but common That no consideratiō is made in their Supper hereby appeareth first that it belongeth not to all persons to consecrate bread and wine in the Supper but onely to those that by imposition of the Pastors and Bishops hands are lawfully ordained according to the succession from the Apostles time euen vnto vs. Now certaine it is that the most part of the Ministers of the Church called Reformed be not ordained by the laying on of the Pastors hands who haue the power by succession frō one to an other since the Apostles Whereof we must conclude that such Ministers vsurping the office which pertaineth not to them cannot make any consecration and giue not by consequence but common bread and wine Which article shall be spoken of when we shall entreat of the sacrifice and Priesthood Secondly to make consecration of the bread and wine it sufficeth not that the person be fit to consecrate the matter but also it is necessary that the lawfull Minister by a certaine meane do make the consecration to wit by blessing and pronouncing of certaine words ouer the matter proposed euen as Iesus Christ hath first obserued it And because the Ministers albeit they were lawfully ordained and that they had authoritie and power to
betweene the true reuelations of the Lord and the Word which proceeding from him is as true as the reuelation And the reuelation reciprocally as true as the Word Yet doth it not therefore follow that the word and the reuelations of the spirit of the Lord by the which we may be conducted to the vnderstanding of the word are not things different and that the one doth not go before the other And where the said Vigor prayeth the said De Spina to hasten to the point he answereth That he cannot else where ground his answeres then vpon the demaundes which be made vnto him Reply Whereunto the said Vigor replyed that hee referred himselfe touching the sence to that which is touched in the answere of the said De Spina And where he saith that the word goeth before the reuelation that is of no value to make difference vpon the question proposed And to come to the point the said Vigor demaundeth whether a man may be assured that he hath reuelation from the Lord that a booke is a booke of the holy Scripture and when he may iudge assuredly of his inward inspiration Also how he can assure any of this inspiration giuen him of the Lord Answere Touching the first Article of the last demaund It is not a thing impertinent to distinguish the scripture from the interpretation thereof inaâ—much as they bee things diuers and diuers gifts of the Lord. And to answer to the question proposed how a particular man before the reuelation and inward testimonie of the spirit of God in his heart may acknowledge that it is Canonicall The spirit of God varieth not from himselfe And abiding in one particular man he wil acknowledge the Scripture which is come from him and beareth his markes And for answere to the second demand hee also saith that the selfe same spirit beeing likewise in a third person will acknowledge both that the word and the reuelation are of him for the reasons alledged That is to say that the spirit of God in diuers persons is alwayes equall and like vnto himselfe Obiection This is no full satisfaction to the first question proposed by the which it was demaunded how some man may iudge in himselfe that hee hath the holy Ghost to discerne one Booke to be the holy Scripture and another not but Apocrypha and how he may declare vnto another that he hath his inspiration from God Answere The spirit of God is called a seale in the scripture therefore is it that the first effect which it produceth in the heart of him vnto whom it is communicated is to assure him of his presence As for assuring a secoÌ„d person of the reuelation that one hath receiued of the spirit of God it is easie Forasmuch as the spirit of God which openeth the mouth of the one to speake doth also open the eares of the other to listen to his word and the heart to beleeue it to be perswaded thereof So that betweene the maister and the scholler between the teacher and the hearer when they be both furnished and enlightened by the Spirit of God there is alwayes one mutuall consent to acknowledge one another Obiection Such certaintie is a great incertaintie And there is not any of what sect soeuer which doeth not assure himselfe to haue the holy Ghost and the trueth on his side which is a foolish presumption How can a man distinguish a presumption from a true inspiration Answere S. Iohn Chrisostome saith that in vaine a man boasteth of the spirit without the word which is a meane to represse sectes and heresies and to iudge of all things which heretiques others would propose vnder the authoritie tytle of the Spirit of God For as by the spirit we know the true sence of the word so do we also mutually acknowledge by the word who those be which haue the spirit of God or no. Obiection This is no answere to the question For the question is not to examine the doctrine by the word but the question is to know whether it be the word of God by which a man will examine and approoue a doctrine And how a man shall iudge assuredly that hee hath a reuelation of the Lord that that is the word of God Answere If he be faithfull therefore shall he iudge by the Spirit of God which is in him as in him which telleth the same vnto him And if he be vnfaithfull as impossible it is that he should iudge thereof as it is to a blinde man to iudge and discerne of colours presented vnto him Forasmuch saieth S. Paul as the Spirit of God is he by whom wee know and iudge the things that are of God Obiection Yet is not this an answere to the question proposed let the iudgement thereof be left to the readers and hearers Now make they another demaund that is to say Whether we be not very certaine by the word of God that the Lord doeth assist his Church and will assist it vnto the end of the world And whether it be not a more assured thing to stay on the consent and iudgement of the Church touching the determination of the Canonicall bookes of the holy Scripture the distinction of them from the Apocrypha then to leane vpon his owne iudgement esteeming it to bee an inward inspiration whereof a man can make no proofe but supposeth that he hath the holy Ghost Answere The Doctors doo confound the opinions which fantasticke men may haue with the witnesses and reuelations of the holy Ghost although betweene those two there is as much distance as is from heauen to earth And as touching the consent of the Church suppose that it proceedeth from the spirit of God Infallable it is also certaine that particular reuelations may be as of Esay and other Prophets And forasmuch as the one and the other do proceed from one selfe same Authour which is the Spirit of trueth The certaintie of the reuelations of God his Spirit made vnto all the Church in generall and to euery member of it in particular is of one selfe same moment Obiection The Minsters cannot shew to the Catholiques nor to any others that they are not fantasticall for asmuch as they make no proofe more then do other sects of the reuelation of the holy Ghost made vnto them and as touching that is said suppose that it proceedeth froÌ„ the Spirit of God They doubt it seemeth of the assistance of the holy Ghost in the Church of God which saith S. Paul is Columna firmameÌ„tuÌ„ veritatis the pillar ground of truth And a thing it is to be wel considered that they are more certain of the assistaÌ„ce of the Lord in one particular person then in the Church vniuersal And where they say that to know the truth the holy Spirit assisteth as well euery member of the Church as the whole church By that might a man conclude that the particular faithful could neuer erre that the
2. vnder the name of Oyntment and in many other places Obiection The places heere-aboue alledged make nothing to prooue that the Spirite was promised to all to iudge of the doctrine otherwise euen women and all faithfull Artificers should iudge of the doctrine as the Prophets and Apostles To the contrary whereof Saint Paul sayeth Nunquid omnes Prophetae c. Are all Prophets hee putteth downe expresly that the discerning of Spirites is to haue vnderstanding of the Scriptures and are gifts which are not common to all the faithfull but particular to some Answere The consequence which the Doctors gather is nothing worth forasmuch as the Spirit of God is more abundantly oft times comunicated to some then to others And some also are better exercised in the Scripture then others Touching the place of Saint Paul 1. Cor. 12. the Ministers say It maketh nothing against them forasmuch as the Spirit of prophecâ—e and the spirit of discretion are different gifts as it appeareth by the declaration which the Apostle maketh in the same Chapter The second dayes Dispute beeing Wednesday the tenth of Iuly THE Doctors required that their protestations the day before made might be registred which was such That they protested they would not enter into any Dispute of things receiued in the vniuersall Church from the Apostles time hitherto decided and determined by holy Eâ—umenicall and generall Councells holding them for certaine and indubitable and that all doctrine to the contrary was false But following the good and holy desire of the Lorde Montpensier and Madam de Buillon his daughter they were ready to make knowne by the verey exâ—resse word of God interpreted by the sayd vniuersall Church and Councells that their doctrine wherein the sayd Ladie was formerly instructed is sound and wholesome And that the instruction which hath beene giuen her to the contrarie is perniâ—ious and damnable And that this Conference is by way of instruction and not of Dispute The Ministers likewise protested that they assembled not with the Doctors for any doubt they had that whatsoeuer is conteined in their confessioÌ„ of faith is not certain and true and founded vpon the word of God as appeareth by the places of scripture quoted in the margeant of the said confession And doo beleeue that whatsoeuer is contrarie and opposite therevnto is damnable and to be reiected yea though an Angell from heauen should propose it And as touching themselues they were not come thither to be instructed in other doctrine then such as they follow and haue learned of Iesus Christ whom they acknowledge to be the onely maister and instructor of the Church It was declared by my Lord of Neuers that he desired after the obiections and answeres there should bee giuen a short resolution both of the one side and the other of that was conferred of the day before Following which remonstrance the Doctors say that to iudge of a booke whether it be the writing of holy scripture or not and likewise to discerne a booke Canonicall from one Apocrypha or Ecclesiasticall a man must not rest on his owne priuate opinion or priuate and particular inspiration for as much as none haue ordinarie assurance that it is a true reuelation of the holy Ghost without reducing himselfe to the common consent and agreement of the Church vniuersall And also that God albeit hee had power to reueale and imprint in each one the true knowledge necessarie to saluation yet hath he ordained a certaine meane whereby faith is obtained which is a reuealed truth that is to say by hearing of the word of God preached by lawfull Ministers sent by the Pastors of the true Church as by the text of Saint Paul to the Rom. 10. and Ephes 4. appeareth If then the meane to haue faith and inward reuelation of the knowledge of saluation bee by the hearing of the word of God lawfully preached by the Ministers of the same according to the ordinary meane to be assured that a man hath inward reuelation It behoueth necessarily to bee assured that the word by which faith is obtained hath bene preached by the lawfull Ministers of the true Church And by consequence to be first assured of the church before his own inward reuelation following the meane which Iesus Christ hath followed They say further that the true and certaine marke of a true inward reuelation is when as it is reduced to the common consent of the Church And contrariwise that euery pretended inward inspiration particular and priuate is a false perswasion if it bee different from the common consent of the Church For the spirite of God is not particular but common And say moreouer that to finde out a false doctrine it behoueth to examine the same to knowe whether it bee priuate or common euen as our Lord hath giuen the true marke in Saint Iohn 8. saying Qui de se loquitur mendacium loquitur Hee that saieth any thing of himselfe and of his owne proper inspiration is a lyer And likewise as it is written in Ezechiel Sonne of man prophesie against the Prophets of Israel that prophesie and say vnto them that prophesie out of their owne heart heare the word of the Lord. Thus saith the Lord God Woe to the foolish Prophets which follow their owne spirit and haue seene nothing And afterward they haue seene vanitie and lying diuination saying The Lord saieth it and the Lord hath not sent them and they haue made others to hope that they would confirme the word of their prophesie And the verses following doo serue to the purpose Which false Prophets said they had an inward reuelation and the word of God They say also and let it be well wayed that the proppe of Religion grounded and assured vpon an inward inspiration is the foundation of many Sects in our time as of Anabaptists and Suencfildians who stay their doctrines vpon priuate reuelations and alledge the same texts to serue them for foundation of their doctrine which the Ministers yesterday alledged that is to say Ieremy in the third Chapter and Ioel. 2. and Saint Paul 1. Cor. 2. which Brentius and Bucer considering haue confessed that by the onely tradition of the Church wee are acertained of the bookes of the holy scripture in following the doctrine of the auncient Fathers as Saint Ierome who confesseth hee receiued by the tradition of the Church and by the same did knowe that there bee foure Gospels As much thereof saith Origen recyting the Canonicall bookes of the new Testament saying I haue learned by tradition that there bee foure Gospels And you shall not finde any auncient Catholicke which hath stayed his faith to discerne and iudge of bookes vpon his onely priuate and particular inspiration And Saint Augustine Liber Confess cap. 25. vseth these wordes Veritas tua domine non mea nec illius aut illius sed omnium nostrum quos ad communionem aduocas terribiliter admonens ne priuatam veritatem habeamus ne priuemur
because men do alledge propose many things to the contrary To the end therefore that God and his Angels bee maintained true in their words it must not be doubted but God can much more easily change and alter his creatures and all their qualities then a Potter can play with his clay and forme at his pleasure some vessell thereof Moreouer there is daunger that if we limit Gods power towards his creatures wee fall to denie him his Lordship and dominion ouer them For no other thing is it to be Lord of a creature then to haue power to change alter and giue it such a nature and qualitie best pleasing to him as hauing the same in his owne power And therefore God in Ieremy to shewe that hee had power to destroy and ruinate or to maintaine Ierusalem as seemed him good saith I am the Lord of all flesh is there any thing too hard for me Therefore the Doctors do conclude that there is daunger if this question bee maintained as impossible to God that each one therein will dare as much alledging the same examples which the Ministers do to exempt from the power of God euery thing shall displease him And when men shall produce vnto him such things out of the scripture he may interpret the scripture in an other sence saying that such a thing shall be impossible to God by the naturall sence of the words of the scripture Euen as the Ministers doo change and alter the scripture which saith that the body of Iesus Christ is in two places To wit the word of the Supper compared with that of the Ascention and say that that of the Supper ought not to bee vnderstood litterally for that one body should be in two places is impossible to God So say the Doctors that each one wil corrupt the litterall sence of the scriptures saying that the thing is impossible vnto God And therefore must the scriptures be otherwise vnderstood And notwithstanding it may bee because it displeaseth him and yet will hee bring forth the selfe-same reasons and allegations as do the Ministers to shewe that all things are not possible to God The Doctors do againe conclude that it is better to maintaine the scripture in the truth thereof albeit it propose in our iudgements incomprehensible and impossible things then to open a gap for euery one to depraue the word of God to raunge and subiect it to his will and iudgement vnder shadow of saying that it is impossible to God and alledging for the same some examples They will not omit that the Ministers who haue often protested to relye vpon the pure word of God do alledge only auncient Doctors against the power of God flying for aide to them against Gods expresse word which importeth that generally without exception there is nothing impossible to him Answere The Minister answere that the Doctors proue not their consequence and that they leaue it for some distrust they haue as is likely that they are not able to proue it They mentiō but the antecedent of their said consequence to the confession whereof it is not possible for them to lead the Ministers by their reasons and authorities alledged to weaken their said consequence for as much as of one particular they inferre a generall which is contrary to the rules of Logicke And where they say that the authorities alledged by the Ministers nothing serue to reproue their consequence and to shew that God leaueth not to be almightie although he cannot do any thing which doth derogate to his nature they referre themserues therein to the said auncient authors which for the same end and reasons as the Ministers doo alledge and propose the aboue said exceptions Where they pretend that the authorities and sentences alledged out of the auncient Fathers do nought appertaine to the present question for as much as they denie that they should be vnderstood of other things but those only which do containe in themselues contradiction The Ministers do answere that so also doth that which they propose of a body that at on selfe instant it may be in diuers places For as much is it as if they should say that a body is and is not at one selfe-same time and that a body is one and is not one Also that a creature is incircumscriptible and not inclosed within certaine limits which happening it should no more be a creature but God As may bee gathered of that which S. Basil writeth in his booke of the holy Ghost Chapter 22. saying thus The Angell that appeared to Cornelius was not in the same place where Phillip was And he that spake to Zacharie from the Aultar filled not whiles hee spake vnto him his seate and place in heauen But the holy Ghost is in Habacuck and Daniel in Babylon and in Ezeehiel vpon the floud of Chobar for the spirit of God doth fill the earth And the Prophet writing thereof saith Where shall I hide me from thy spirit or whither shall I flye from thy presence Didymus in his booke of the holy Ghost confirming that aboue said saith thus Were the spirit of God a creature his substance should he haue circumscript and limitted as haue all things made and created As then so it is that the spirit of God doth fill the world and is not circumscript nor in any place limitted therof it followeth that he is God Vigilius in the disputation hee wrote betweene Sabellius Photius Arrius and Athanasius vnder the person of Athanasius thus writeth Thereby may it chiefly appeare that the spirit of God is God that he is euerie where and is not contained in any one place as the Prophet writeth Whither shall I flye to hide me from thy spirit Of these places may we conclude that if a body bee not circumscript finished and closed in certaine limits it is not a creature which ought to bee vnderstood not onely of other bodies but of that also of Iesus Christ himselfe as appeareth by that which Theodoret writeth in his second Dialogue where hee thus saith Then is the body of our Lord risen exempted from all corruption impassible and immortall adorned with diuine glory adored and worshipped of the heauenly powers Neuerthelesse albeit it be in such sort qualified yet ceaseth it not therefore to be circumscript as it was before it was glorified whereof it followeth that being a true body and a creature it cannot be in diuers places at one instance Whereas they alledge that the foresaid examples do nothing pertaine to the question proposed for as much as in it the question is onely to know whether God can chaunge the qualities in a substance the substance remaining The Ministers do denie it because in the question there is mentiō of a body which cannot be without hs measure Now the measures and demensions are not as qualities and accidents which may happen to a body and depart from it without corrupting thereof which is the nature and condition of accidents but are
haue bene humane because wee see it against the nature of this body to enter by the closed doores For to God are all things possible For to walke also vpon the waters is manifestly against the nature of this body And yet the Lord himselfe not onely walked before his passion but also caused Peter to walke Where it appeareth that S. Augustine saith plainly that our Lord did enter by the shut doores and referreth all to the omnipotencie of God Moreouer the text of S. Luke ioyned with that of Saint Iohn doth shewe that he entred through the doores For no reasonable occasion had the Apostles had to thinke it was a spirit and not a body seeeing him before them in the likenesse of a man but for that he was entred otherwise then a true body and very man could enter That is for that he was entred by the closed doores which thing a true man and a true body in no wise can doo To say that the doores were opened and afterwards shut again by myracle or otherwise should nothing auaile For so may a true man and a true body be there and therefore no cause can a man haue to think it a spirit or vaine vision The Doctors say moreouer that all the auncient heretikes and Christians did commonly agree that Iesus Christ passed through but such was their difference as now it is between the Ministers Doctors The auncient heretikes said that Iesus Christ after his resurrection had not a true body because he did workes contrary to the nature of a body which implied contradiction to a naturall body to wit that at one selfe instant he was in one selfe-same place with an other body as when he passed through the doores The auncient Catholike Christians answered that such indeed was the nature of a body that it could not passe through the doores through the body of the virgin in his birth without fracture through the stone of the Sepulchre in it resurrection but neuerthelesse that two bodies should be together by the omnipotencie of God implied no contradiction for as much as it so hapned in the three cases done and recited The first that speaketh therof is Iustine Martir in the 117. question against the Gentiles where hee saith If a thicke body be hindred to passe through the doores how did our Lord after his resurrection enter the shut doores And if it bee so why was the stone remoued by the Angell from off the Sepulchre to the end his body might rise againe He answereth thus That euen as our Lord without changing his body into a spirit walked vpon the sea but by his diuine power he made the sea solide to walke vpon not onely for his owne body but for that of S. Peter So by his diuine power he came forth of the sepulchre the stone remaining thervpon and entered to his Disciples the doores beeing shut Hereby we vnderstand that the things which proceed of diuers vertues ought to haue the same faith And we must know that the things which surpasse nature wheÌ„ they are wrought in it by diuine power ought not to be measured according to the reason proprietie of nature For this cause our Lord seeing his Disciples troubled at such an entry did propose vnto them the parts of his body and the places and markes of his wounds to be touched to shew he was not entred by change of his body into a spirite but with his body composed of it dimensions and thicknesse and by his diuine almightinesse which made all things that surpasse the strength of nature Saint Hillary in his third booke of the Trinitie But thou saith hee which wilt search into the things insearchable and wilâ— be Iudge of the secrets of God and his power I aske counsell of thee giue onely a reason and solution of this fact to mee that 〈◊〉 and do simply beleeue in God concerning all things euen as hee hath said and pronounced them I vnderstand that the Lord was often present after his resurrectioâ— to he seene and knowne of them which beleeued him not The self-same Lord applying himselfe to the weaknesse of out vnderstanding and to satisfie the doubts of the 〈◊〉 doth shewe a secret and a worke of his almightinesse Expound to me theâ— whosoeuer thou art which wilt beeade archer of the omnipotencie of God the reason of this deeâ—â—t The Disciples being shut vp and withdrawne together in secret the Lord is proposed to Thomas to confirme his faith according to the conditions he desired to wit that he might touch his body and proue his wounds And for this cauâ—ent behoued him to bring the true body with him wherein he had receiued such wounds I demaund then for as much as he was corporall by what part of the house entred hee in For I see that the Euâ—ngelist diligently expresseth that Iesus came when the doores were shut and was found in the middest of his Disciples to wit whether he pierced the thicke walles and the great lettes of timber betweene both Certaine it is that without fiction or guile hee there entered Let thy conceit followe and consider his entrie and thy vnderstanding enter into the house shut within All thou seest is whole and fast locked and yet is lâ—ee found in the middest of his Disciples but it is because all things by his almightinesse are open to him Thou slaunderest things inuisible I aske thee againe the reason of this thing there visible Nothing of the wall or solide doores gaue backe or made way Contrariwise I see that wood and stones by their nature cannot receiue such an entrie The body of our Lord was not quite vanished to bee eftsoones taken and made of nothing Whence then commeth it that he is found in the middest of them without opening Sence and speech do herein faile and the truth of the deed is beyond humane reason As then we are abused concerning the birth of the sonne of God we lye also concerning such an entry The deed is false say we it so happened not because we cannot vnderstand the reason thereof and for that our sence and iudgemenr faileth we say there is no such deed But the faith and beliefe of the deed doth conuince our lying The Lord the doores being shut is found in the middest of the Apostles and the sonne of God is borne of his Father Denie not that hee thus entred because by the infirmitie of thy spirit thou canst not comprehend such an entrie I could amplifie like deeds in all the creatures but the Lord hath well prouided for himselfe to haue contained vs in necessitie and modestie by the nature of our bodies Sufficiently we shewe that we would make our selues an other God had we power so to do For as much as wee cannot by the boldnesse of our wicked will ruinate the nature of truth we gainsay it at least and contend with the word of God S. Ambrose in his tenth booke vpon S. Luke cap. 24. saith through the doores S.
can do any thing against the said order which he hath put in the world And thirdly that were it so there should bee contradiction in his will whereby it would followe that hee should be a lyar And for the fourth blasphemie that the power of God is his will and that his weaknesse is his vnwillingnesse And for the fift the Ministers pretend that God hath willed to make a body which at one selfe instant hath beene in many places before they beleeue that God could doo it otherwise they intend to inferre that hee had not power and could not do it So that the Ministers will nought acknowledge of the power of God but so much thereof as hee hath shewed by effect And to that purpose they alledge Tertullian All which blasphemies be drawne out of the proper words of the Ministers first article Touching the first which is that God cannot make a thing which derogateth the order he hath established in the world it is very apparant that it is blasphemie by the holy scripture which in infinite places maketh mention of the workes of God aboue nature which the Ministers call the order established in the world And in proper termes teacheth that God can do infinite things aboue the order by him established in the world Namely that Lots wife was turned into a pillar of salte that a barren woman in her old age hauing an old husband brought forth a childe that a withered Rodde budded that an Asse spake that the sonne stayed and went backe and other more then innumerable examples contained in the old Testament And as touching the new that a virgin brought forth a child That a body walked vpō the water mounted into heauen And generally all the myracles that Christ and his Apostles did aboue nature which is contrary to the order established in the world And of this blasphemie ensueth an other that God since hee established his order in the world hath not done nor could nor can do any myracle Now to proue that the scripture teacheth clearely that God can do contrary to the order established in the world it is written in the 50. of Esay Is my hand that is to say my power so shortned that it cannot helpe or haue I no power to deliuer Behold at my rebuke I drie the sea I make the flouds desart Their fish rotteth for want of water and dyeth for thirst I cloathe the heauens with darknesse make a sacke their couering And more expresly in the new Testament where it is said by S. Iohn That God can of stones raise vp children to Abraham Which place although it may be expounded allegorically yet hath S. Iohn willed in the litterall sence to shewe that it was possible to God And the diue did know and confesse that if Iesus Christ were the true sonne of God he could chaunge the stones into bread Which is neuerthelesse contrary to the order established in the world And it must be noted that there is no more impossibilitie that the bread should bee chaunged into flesh by the omnipotencie of God then a stone into bread And therefore they which denie this last done by the power of God do shewe to beleeue lesse the almightinesse of God then the diuels The confutation of the second blasphemie dependeth on the confutation of the first For although God against the order established in the world hath done many myracles as hath beene before recyted yet neuerthelesse there is no mutabilitie nor chaunge in his counsaile Touching the third blasphemie which is that if God did any thing contrary to the order established in the world there should be contradiction in his will and he should therfore be a lyar The Doctors obiect that it would follow that the will of God should be such neuer to will any thing contrary to the order established in the world And that God should haue purposed and declared by his word his will to be such For otherwise can they not know what the will of God shuld be And the Ministers do not nor can they make it appeare by the word of God the will of God to be such that he will not do any thing against the order established in the world And it behoueth the said Ministers to teach of such a wil of God before they conclude that God made one body to be in two places or other thing against the order of nature established in the world he should be a lyar Touching the fourth blasphemie which is that the power of God is his will and that his weaknesse is his vnwillingnes according to the sence which the Ministers giue it to wit if God cannot but that which he will it is an heresie of the heretikes called Monarchians in the Primitiue Church Against whom Tertulliā wrote in his booke Aduersus Praxeā and afterwards renewed by Peter Abaillardus And since cōtinued by one called Wickliffe who measured the power of God according to his will Which is against the expresse word of God which often declareth many things possible to God that notwithstanding he wil not do as by that which is written in the 2. of Wisedome appeareth where mention is made that God could send vpon the children of Israel many kinds of affliction to chasten thē but he would not do it hauing disposed all things by number waight measure And that he could destroy those which had offended but that he would not vsing mercie towards thē And in the Gospel our Lord said to S. Peter Thinkest thou that I could not now pray my Father and he would send me more then 12. Legions of Angels And notwithstanding he would not pray for that purpose And his Father would not send them although he had power to do it to the person of his sonne And Iesus Christ himself could haue letted his enemies frō taking away his life but he would not And the Father saith S. Paul by his power could haue saued him frō corporall death But neuerthelesse hee would not do the one nor the other Notwithstanding the Ministers might say that it was preordained yet the scripture saith expresly that he could do it although it had bin preordained And as touching the authoritie of Tertullian the Doctors are glad that the Ministers do produce it because it maketh wholy for the truth against the blasphemy of the Ministers who haue omitted many words and sentences of the said Tertullian which serued to the confutation of their error as by the text here inserted may be easily iudged Nihil Deo difficile Quis hoc nesciat Et impossibilia apud seculum possibilia apud deū Quis ignorat Et stulta mūdi elegit Deus vt confundat sapientia Ergo inquiūt haeretici Monarchiani scilicet difficile non fuit deo ipsū se patrem Filiū facere aduersus traditam formā rebus humanis Nam Aerilē parere contra naturam difficile deo non fuit sicut nec virginē planè nichil Deo difficile
two places alledge nothing more instantly then the impossibilitie for God to doo this Now to the end that all the world may vnderstand the present difference betweene the Doctors and Ministers the Doctors declare that no other difference there hath beene hitherto touching this article then to know whether it be in the power of God to make one body to be in two places at one selfe-same instant or no. And for the second article the Doctors say that the Ministers answere not to the purpose for the obiection was not whether quantitie were an accident of a Mathematicall body Aut de praedicamento quantitatis as speaketh the Philosophers but to know whether it were of the essence and of necessitie to the quantitie of a body to be circumscript and in one piace inclosed And as touching S. Augustine by the Ministers alledged he speaketh expresly according to the proprieties of the diuine and humane natures And wel saith that the diuine is in all places but not the humane because of it naturall proprietie it requireth a place certaine And of this make the Doctors no doubt according to the said naturall proprietie But the question is to wit whether aboue nature by the omnipotencie of God he cannot cause one body to be without place proportionable to it greatnesse Which S. Augustine speaking de Ianuis clausis not hauing regard to the nature of things but to the power of God plainly confesseth And the Doctors would desire the Ministers to alledge this Epistle of S. Augustine against the doctrine of Caluin and his Ministers for the descent of the soule of Iesus Christ into hell as often as they alledge the passage of the place of bodies against the power of God touching the body of Iesus Christ in the Sacrament In the 3. article the Ministers are deceiued For after the sayings of the Philosophers and according to the naturall reason of a body which the Ministers do follow Locus est superficies Corporis continentis Place is the ouermost part of a containing body Wherfore it should behoue that were the high and last heauen circumscript of place there should be a body aboue the high and first heauen A quo primum Caelum contineretur Et sic in infinitum Of which the first heauen should be coÌ„tained And so infinit And moreouer the Ministers answer not to the other obiectioÌ„s made theÌ„ vpoÌ„ this article And as touching the passages of scripture which they alledge to proue that there are toomthes places aboue all the heauens they captiously conclude and 〈◊〉 with doubtfulnesse of the name of place For in all their 〈◊〉 of the dimensions of bodies which they haue said 〈◊〉 to require roomth and place equall and 〈…〉 their bignesse it is meete they vnderstand 〈…〉 roomthes and places euen as the dimensions and of 〈◊〉 do require the same And now when they speake of place◠〈…〉 meet they vnderstand theÌ„ others then 〈…〉 be not such roomthes places as these wherein 〈…〉 now are but incomprehensible and vnimaginable places where bodies and spirits indifferently are without distinction for their greatnesse of certaine spaces and places corporall And in such places the Ministers rule is false by which they maintaine that a body cannot be in one place if it bee not as spacious as the greatnesse of the body Moreouer the Doctors say that it is the manner of heretikes to interpret the scriptures spiritually when they are litterally to bee taken and contrariwise to expound according to the letter that which spiritually and by figure ought to bee vnderstood As the Ministers doo expound the house of Cod in the other world litterally and corporally wherein there are spaces and corporall habitations diuers and seperate one from an other albeit it ought to bee spiritually vnderstood for the diuersitie of degrees of blessednesse The said Doctors cannot omit a manifest contradiction of the Ministers in this selfe-same article wherein they preâ—end that the bodies and soules of the blessed are lodged aboue all the heauens And yet they place the body of Iesus Christ within the heauen And touching the alledged article condemned by the facultie of diuinitie at Paris the Doctors answere that the Ministers do ordinarily alledge authorities pared or euilly applied For the Article saith that the Bishop of Paris hauing called the Facultie condemned all those which would place two distinct heauens one for the Angels the other for the soules of men Which nothing pertaineth to the present question The Ministers in the fourth article do charge the Doctors who neuer attribute the proprietie of God to any creature but haue often heretofore said that to bee euerie where and incircumscript was not naturall to any creatures but to God alone And the Authors by the Ministers alledged as Saint Basil Didimus and Vigilius speake no otherwise theÌ„ of the proprietie of nature to be euery where or not And yet they neuer denie but it is in Gods power to cause one creature or body aboue it nature to be in two or many places but as aforesaid when they come to the power of God many of the olde authors confesse that it is possible with God and that hee hath done the same in the Sacrament the answere of the Ministers is therefore to no purpose For the whole contention is of the power of God and not of naturall proprieties The Ministers in the fift article haue not well conceiued the reason of the Doctors who alledge that the Angels are naturally circumscript as well as bodies and hereby would inferre that the circumscription of place simply depended not as of the sole and essentiall cause of the dimensions of a body as by all their said reasons the Ministers pretend Albeit the Doctors are not ignorant that to put difference betweene the corporall and spirituall creatures they haue accustomed to distinguish in schooles that the Angels Sunt diffinitiue in loco and the bodies Circumscriptiue In the sixt article to satisfie the Doctors who made instance they should produce one onely place of the auncient Fathers where it was said that it is not in Gods power to make one body to be in two places The Ministers for all the testimonies they could haue do falsly alledge a place of S. Augustine where it is said as it is cyted in Gratian De consecra distinct 2. C. prima quidem that the said Saint Augustine hath written that it behoued the body of Iesus to be in one place wherevnto say the Doctors that it is not so couched in the proper text of S. Augustine which is in the 30. tract vpon Saint Iohn For such is the tenour in all the auncient copies of S. Augustine Corpus domini in quo resurrexit vno loco esse potest veritas eius vbique diffusa est The body of the Lord in which he rose againe may be in one place his truth is shead into euerie place Where is not this word Oportet as the Ministers cyte it hauing taken the
them And for conclusiō they haue no other foundation of their saying then their owne coniectures and imaginations and the false interpretations which they giue to the writings of the Fathers To the faith wherof they would gladly constraine subiect the Church to the end that hauing laid that foundation they might afterwards build therevpon all the absurdities and errors they shall delight in touching the same And where they presuppose when Christ entered the shut doores walked vpon the waters and went out of the Sepulchre that such myracles were done rather in the person then in the other things Iustine writeth the contrarie saying that without any change happened either in his body or in that of S. Peter he made by his diuine power the Sea against nature to serue him to walke As also S. Hillary to the same purpose saith That by his power hee made all things passeable Wherevnto likewise agreeth S. Iohn Chrisostome attributing all that to diuine power and freely confessing that hee knew not the maner and the fashion thereof By meanes whereof the Ministers are much abashed that the Doctors are so presumptuous to determine a thing which by the scripture and Fathers hath bene left vndecided and wherein as S. Hillary saith wisely sence and words do faile the truth of the deed exceedeth the capacitie of humane reason How dare then the Doctors so boldly say that the body of Iesus Christ passed through the doores that there was penitration of dimensions that two bodies were in one selfe-same place Seeing that of all that neither in the scripture nor in the auncient Fathers there is not one onely sillable and that as is said the Fathers do confesse that their vnderstanding and sence were too feeble to comprehend or declare the reason of such a my sterie As touching the birth of Iesus Christ the Ministers repose themselues vpon the scripture which saith clearly that the Virgin was with childe that she brought forth that shee gaue sucke and that Apertaest vulua the wombe is opened in the child-birth They adde that the same doth nought derogate nor preiudice her virginitie and purenesse which consisteth in this point onely that shee knew not not was knowne of any man Moreouer they say that in beleeuing the same they follow the scripture and consequently they cannot erre nor bee heretikes nor they likewise which subiect and subdue their sence to the word of God as in this haue done the Fathers which are by them alledged In the following article proposed by the Doctors touching the manner of the resurrection of Iesus Christ there is nothing but coniectures slaunders repetitions troublesome and superfluous which the Ministers by their former answeres haue largely satisfied All that which afterwards followeth in the writings of the Doctors are but iniuries and scoffes in stead of reasons and arguments which is the last recourse of contentious spirits who seeing themselues destitute of reason and vnable to giue place to the truth defend themselues by clamours and slaunders Some reason should the Doctors haue for that which they say concerning the word Aphantos if there followed Autois but that which the Euangelist saith Ap'auton sheweth clearely that the interpretation of the said place and vnderstanding of S. Ambrose where vnto the Ministers agree is better then that of the Doctors As touching the opening of the heauens the Ministers answere that vsing the language of the scripture which saith clearely that in the baptisme of Iesus Christ the heauens were clouen asunder and then opned when S. Stephen was stoned they cannot faile And to apply to the ayre the signification of heauen is a humane imagination This also seemeth should diminish the Maiestie of God and of Iesus Christ who is lifted vp aboue all the heauens to establish so lowe as the ayre the Throne of his Maiestie And there is no likelyhood in that which the Doctors say touching the being of two bodies in one selfe-same place and that which the Ministers say of the sight of Stephen which extended euen to the heauens for as much as the one is a myracle of the power of God in nature and the other a wonder against nature and the will of God The Doctors in the article following do falsly impute to the Ministers that they affirmed it was a thing impossible for God to make a Camell to passe through the eye of a needle for they neuer touched this point in theyr former answeres but that part of the sentence onely where it is spoken of rich men Now to answere too and resolue their obiections the Ministers say that euen as God can saue a rich man by chaunging him and emptying his heart of so much vaine trust and presumption as is therein and whereof beeing grosse and filled hee is vncapeable to enter into the Kingdome of heauen so to him it is also easie to make a Camell passe through the eye of a needle hauing circumcised and pared off the grossenesse thereof and other things which might hinder the same to passe ****** First that the Supper which is celebrated in the reformed Church is the true institution and ordinance of the sonne of God Afterwards that the end for which it was instituted is to assure the faithfull of the true participation which they haue in the flesh of Iesus Christ crucified for their saluation and in his bloud shead for the remission of their sinnes and for the confirmation of the new couenant which God hath made with his people Thirdly they say that it is necessarie that the bread and wine abide in their proper substance and that after consecration otherwise they cannot be Sacraments of the body and bloud of Christ Lastly the Ministers say that the vnbeleeuers presenting themselues at the Supper by meanes of their vnbeliefe can there no other thing receiue then the outward signes of bread and wine and that to their iudgement and condemnation The Ministers on the other side propose vnto them touching the Masse that such as it is and now celebrated in the Romance Church it is nothing but a humane inuention and tradition Also that it is a corruption and prophanation as well of the holy Supper of our Lord Iesus Christ as of the true and lawfull vse thereof Also that it is an abuse of the Priesthood of Popish Priests and that there is no other Priesthood in the new Testament ordained to get and obtaine remission of sinnes nor also to make intercession and by prayers and merits to obtaine the fauour of God then the onely Priesthood of Iesus Christ They say moreouer that it is a blasphemie and sacriledge but of the sacrifice of the Romish Priests and that there is no other oblation then that which Iesus Christ once made with his body vpon the Crosse by which the wrath of God could be appeased his iustice satisfied sinners reconciled to God sinnes pardoned and the hand-writing of eternall death cancelled and abolished Also they say that the seperation of
Doctors haue noted the Ministers say by the new interpretation of the order of the world in one word they haue fully answered Which to dissolue the argumēts produced by the Doctors commeth nothing to the purpose And the Ministers passe ouer the alledged places of scriptures which declare the blasphemie and dissemble the contradiction of their doctrine and of that of Caluin touching the prouidence of God in respect of the order established in the world And the Ministers answere not to the Doctors obiectiō that from the third blasphemie flow many others least in confessing the same they might heape blasphemie vpon blasphemie and make their doctrine by this meane odious toall the world For answere to the fourth blasphemie vse the Ministers a distinction of the will of God which may two wayes bee considered The first is called the will knowne by signes and the other the will of good pleasure The Ministers confesse that according to the first God can doo more then he will and not according to the second which is as they say equall to the power of God is hidden and vnknowne to men The which distinction if it ought to haue place the Doctors obiect that the foundation of the Ministers wherevpon they stay the pretended truth of this proposition God cannot make one body to bee in diuers places is wholly destroyed For the Ministers will haue the power of God to be measured according to his will not according to the second which is hidden vnto men It behoueth then that this be taken according to the first by the which they confesse that God can do more then he will do Whereof it followeth that the rule by them giuen to measure Gods power is false For it cannot be measured by his will seeing he can do more then he will Moreouer the Doctors say that the Ministers should not require thē to proue that God hath willed that one body should be in two places to declare that he could do it For the Doctors might obiect that to teach that God may doo something it needeth not to proue that he hath formerly willed it For according to the Ministers confession God can do more then he will The Doctors adde for as much as the will of God appeareth not to vs but by signes words and effects and that the order established in the world according to his prouidence as the Ministers agree is hidden vnto men that the Ministers cannot affirme and shewe that God hath established such order in the world that one body may not bee in diuers places For meete it were they should teach such an ordinance of God and declaration of his will Oft times haue the Ministers bene required to bring one onely place of scripture where such a will of God is manifest and where it is said that hee cannot make one body to bee in diuers places As touching the place of Tertullian the Doctors for vnderstanding thereof refer themselues to euery man of sound iudgement and say that the Ministers haue ill to the purpose alledged Theodoret and it maketh more against them then with them For when he writeth that it must not be indeterminately said that God can do all things comprehending therein good and euill in that he maketh no restraint of the omnipotencie of God but contrariwise doth amplifie the same in so much that not to be able to do euil things is both a vertue and power as before hath beene largely declared Where the Ministers do instant the Doctors to shewe that God hath willed one body to bee in two places the Doctors answere that these are two different questions whether God can do it or whether he hath willed it And when it shall be confessed as it ought to bee of all Christians that the power is in God very easie shall it be to shewe the will by the word of the Supper and of the Ascention which they of the pretended reformed religion haue accustomed to depraue and disswade men from by the impossibilitie which they faigne to bee in God to put one body in two places Also the Doctors leaue it to the readers iudgement whether S. Augustine haue bene cyted by the Ministers to the purpose or no. And to that which concerneth whether ihe quantitie be essentiall to a body or not the Doctors speaking of a body as doth Philosophers namely In predicamento quantitatis haue neuer doubted but it is essentiall But the difficultie is to know whether to be circumscript in a place certaine be essentiall to a body And the Doctors suppose they haue sufficiently proued that it is not essentiall but that it is an accident naturall to a body And they verifie their saying by the definition of a body wherein all essentiall reason is comprised and such it is that a body is a kinde of firme quantitie of three dimensions length breadth and deepenesse where no mention is made of the circumscription of place in the saide definition What pertaineth to the question concerning places aboue the heauen the Ministers as they are wont do lightly passe ouer And for want of good answere they wrong the Doctors calling them Sophisters And that which they bring to confirme that our Lord is in one place aboue the heauen is ouer friuolous For by the same reason might one conclude that the diuinitie is circumscript And Aduerbes signifying place shall be found in the scripture when it speaketh of the diuinitie as well as when it speaketh of the humanitie of Iesus Christ Where the Ministers impute to the Doctors that they confesse their Canons to be false it is a manifest slaunder For the Doctors acknoweldge not any Canons but in as much as they are taken out of the Councels other bookes authenticke and not according as they are extracted of any particular person as is the polinge of Gratian wherevnto they giue no credit but as much as that which hee cyteth deserueth For resolution of the 8. article the Doctors send the Ministers to the schoole of Philosophers to vnderstand that in a predicament of substance there is a body which is a kind of substance and in a predicament of quantitie an other body which is a kinde of quantitie And to learne them also that the body which is of quantitie is accidentall and not essentiall to a body of predicament of substance Moreouer the Ministers do erre against all Philosophie calling a materiall substance incorporall But the Doctors will not rest vppon such things and are much grieued that they haue not to do with people better grounded in Ppilosophie For that being such they could better touch the reason then the Ministers do The Doctors doo maintaine the consequence of two bodies in one placle to infer it for necessarie that one body may be in two places for there is like reason and like inconuenience in the one as in the other And therefore if the one be to be done the other is possible and so they referre it to the readers
Tertullian in his booke of the Resurrection maketh after hee had disputed against them which denied the same to be possible with God And it seemeth they then said as the Ministers haue formerly said that there was something by the scriture impossible with God to wit that he could not lye nor deceiue and that thereof they tooke occasion to goe further and to dispute that the resurrection was to him also impossible So that the Ministers because God cannot lye haue endeuouted â—o inferre that to put one body in two places was impossible for him as well as to lye and deceiue Tertullian in the end accordeth with the Marcionists and saith Rather had I confesse that God cannot deceiue and that hee is onely weake and impotent in deceit to the end that thereby hee seeme not to haue taught and spoken one way and to haue otherwise disposed of the deed contained in his word Then if hee cannot concludeth Tertullian deceiue and abuse the resurrection must be beleeued as it is carried in his word and not otherwise least deceit be found in the word of God The Doctors say also they willingly confesse that God cannot lye nor deceiue and that it must therefore be beleeued that so he hath willed and ordained the truth of the Supper in such sort and not otherwise as his word soundeth and beareth Now so it is that his word plainly and expresly beareth that he affirmeth that what hee gaue with his hands to his Apostles to eat was his body deliuered for vs we must therefore beleeue that his word saith not otherwise then his will is least he be esteemed a lyar And that as he saith This is my body This is my bloud that it is so indeed The which the Doctors by Gods assistance will declare in the next Conference to shewe that he hath not onely power to establish his body in the holy Sacrament but also that he hath willed it and so hath done it Artictles proposed by the Doctosr for the next Conference and others following according to the order of the said Articles ALthough following the order of Conference touching the Apostles Creed they ought secondly to entreate of an other article as the Ministers themselues in the beginning of the Conference not onely accorded but demaunded offering the imprinted Articles of their confession bearing date the 1564. yeare from the first vnto the last to be examined by the Doctors Neuerthelesse the Doctors seeing it will not be much from the purpose after they haue intreated of the omnipotencie of God which extendeth to bee powerfull to cause the body of Iesus Christ to be in heauen and in the Sacrament in continuing that matter to enter into the probation of his will they are content to shewe that he hath not power onely but that also he hath wil and are consequently determined to refute all the blasphemies and heresies contained in their Supper which are called reformed to the end also they be not deemed to flye the list touching the Supper and the Masse as the Ministers haue reproached them Neuerthelesse they protest that their meaning is after the conclusion of this matter and resolution giuen to returne to examine the wonderfull errors of the Ministers which in number are many against the other articles of the Creed which thing the Ministers vnwilling that the Doctors should pursue the order begun do greatly feare as one may see and iudge foreseeing that in the next Conference an other blasphemie would be shewed them which the Church calling it selfe Reformed against the goodnesse of God after Caluins doctrine maintaineth to wit that God worketh in the reprobate the euill and sinne they commit which is an execrable Atheisme and no lesse then the deniall of the omnipotencie of God And they that can read these Conferences continuing to the ende of the discussion of the Ministers errors and of their religioÌ„ against all the articles of the Creed shall bee likewise abashed to vnderstand the absurdities and blasphemies issuing from the same An other point there is yet which inuiteth the Ministers to demaund tractation of the Supper which is that they haue the whole matter alreadie squared by many of their Sect who haue written of the same And chiefly the great booke of Peter Martir will not faile them Wherby they shal be furnished with I know not what infamous obiectioÌ„s of some passages of the Fathers broken depraued or euilly applied to impugne in shew the truth of the body in the Sacrament But for defence of all other their errors the Ministers are meanely armed and their conscience doth sufficiently witnesse that by the scripture decision of generall Councells and common accord of the writings of all the auncient Fathers no apparance to the contrary they are conuinced and condemned of their errors against the said Creed Now to enter into the examination of the Supper of the Ministers the Doctors do maintaine that it is a prophane eating and drinking not differing from common eating and drinking but in that it is worse that they abuse the holy institution of the Supper of Iesus and pollute and defile such their banket with all impietie blasphemie They also maintaine that the Ministers do great iniurie to the Sacrament of Iesus Christ falsly to attribute to such their prophane and polluted banket the name of Sacrament And to the end that the proofe thereof be more cleare the Doctors demaund of the Ministers whether they receiue one common doctrine receiued not only in the Church Catholique but also almost in all Sects which are seperated from it That is that in the confection of the Sacraments there be two essentiall and necessarie things the matter or element and the word Secondly what word with the Element is necessary to make a Sacrament and namely that which the Ministers do call the Sacrament of the Supper and whether it behoueth to vse certaine words or no Thirdly whether the word haue some power or effectuall working in the Sacrament what whether it worke vpon something in the matter of the bread and wine Fourthly whether by the same word consecration bee made of the matter of the Sacrament or no Fiftly whether by the word consecration be not made of the matter to wit how the same consecration is made and by what vertue the same is made Sixtly whether besides the bread and wine and the spirituall graces and benefites of Iesus Christ the true body and bloud of Iesus Christ in their proper substance and not in spirituall effect onely be really receiued in the Supper And the Doctors do demand vpon this article a plaine confession of the faith of the Ministers They demaund further whether in receiuing the bread before taking of the wine they receiue not by the eating of the bread the body and bloud of Iesus Christ or the body onely Briefly whether they admit that which Diuines call a Concomitance of the body and bloud of Iesus Christ They demaund also whether
the Supper ouer and besides the assurance which it giueth them of the participation they haue in the flesh of Iesus Christ for their redemption doth worke in them remission of sinnes Lastly they demaund whether one receiueth any thing by the Supper which he could not receiue without the Supper or whether without paine taking to go the Supper or beeing present thereat one may as well receiue the bodie and graces of Iesus Christ as if hee were present at the Supper The Doctors will afterwards debate the other articles contained in the Ministers last writing for as much as the precedent demaunds ought to be first examined as grounds of other articles proposed by the Ministers Moreouer after the confutation of the Supper of the Ministers and the confirmation of the reall presence of the body and bloud of Iesus Christ in the holy Sacrament the Doctors by order and without confusion will clearly teach by the pure and expresse word of God that the Masse was instituted and said by Iesus Christ and that he commaunded his Apostles to say it which thing then following the ordinance of their Maister they afterwards performed That the Masse is a true sacrifice of the lawe Euangelique That they which reiect the Masse and admit in the Church no externall sacrifice nor Priesthood are without the true lawe without true Religion and therein worse then Idolaters themselues That the Masse auaileth to obtaine remission of sinnes fauour and grace of God and that it auaileth both for the quicke and the dead That it is not an abuse in the Church if the Priest in the Masse do communicate alone when they that are present will not communicate That they commit an horrible blasphemie which call the adoration of the body and bloud of Iesus Christ in the Sacrament adoration of bread and wine and falsly call such worship of the body of Iesus Christ Idolatrie To be short that there is nothing in the Masse at this day ordained and celebrated which in it selfe is not good and holy and agreeable to the word of God The Doctors do admonish the Ministers to answere to the demaunds here aboue written to purpose plainely and by order Sunday 28. of Iuly in the yeare aforesaid The Ministers answere to the writings of the Doctors sent to thē by my Lord de Niuernois the 28. day of Iuly about seuen of the clocke in the euening in the 1566. yeare THe Doctors reproach the Ministers in the beginning of their writing that in their former complaint against thē they immitate the Donatists wherein they verifie that which the Ministers heretofore haue oftentimes shewed them to wit that the most part of their writings are imployed in repetitions iniuries scoffes and inuectiues rather then in good arguments and reasons And they say that the example of the Donatists is much more proper to bee applyed to them then to the Ministers for as much as the Donatists would restraine the name of the Church which vniuersally comprehendeth all the elect and faithfull that are and euer were and attribute the same to the sole company of them which follow their customes and errors as the Doctors at this day approue not others for the Catholike and vniuersall Church then they which follow the traditions and abuses of the Romane Church Moreouer the Donatists did persecute them which were contrarie to their doctrine and vsed violence and all crueltie against them that they could deuise as Saint Augustine in many places doth recyte Now what in time past hath bene the rage and furie as well of the Doctors as of their complices Priests and hypocriticall Monkes against poore Christians each one knoweth And there is not he which knoweth not now both by their Sermons writings and conferences what is their hate and spight against the children and seruants of God and what pleasure should they haue to roote them out were theyr power answerable to their will whereby one may iudge whether they or the Ministers come nearer to the likenesse and example of the Donatists And whereas the Doctors adde that the Ministers cease not to bee blasphemers because they reiect and detest the name thereof The Ministers answere that the Doctors also leaue not to be false accusers because they disauow and denie the name And that the effects do shewe of the one side and the other to whom such crimes and names may appertaine and be attributed And touching that which the Doctors in the same article say that it is blasphemy against the goodnesse of God to impute vnto him that hee is the author of vice and of sinne The Ministers confesse it and do adde that it is blasphemy also against his truth to say that with him there is yea and nay as doo they which vnder a colour and false pretext to establish the omnipotencie of GGD doo propose that hee can cause one bodie at one selfe-same instant to bee in diuers places to wit that it is and is not Touching that which the Doctors afterwards say that the Ministers erre in the grounds of Gods omnipotencie for as much as they haue said that he was almightie because he doth whatsoeuer hee will and that nothing can hinder or with-hold the execution of his counsailes The Ministers answere that therein they haue followed Saint Augustines definition of the omnipotencie of God in the 96. Chapter of his Enchiridion where word for word hee thus saith For other cause is hee not truly called omnipotent but for as much as hee can do all whatsoeuer hee will and that the effect of the will of the Almightie is not hindered by the will and effect of any creature In that they consequently impute to the Ministers that they haue said the omnipotencie of God ought not to bee generally extended to all things which men may conceiue and imagine in their mindes The Ministers say vnder the Doctors correction that they said not so but that the almightinesse of God ought not to be extended without any discretion or distinction to all things generally which men in their foolish phantasies might forge or imagine Wherein to each one it may eftsoones appeare how they curtall and falsifie the Ministers words and sentences to haue meanes and colour for their slaunder Afterwards where they affirme that it is blasphemy to say that God can doo nothing against order the Ministers on the contrary part maintaine that to thinke and say that hee can doo ought which is not well ordered is to blaspheme the wisedome and eternall prouidence of God The Doctors pretend in the article following that one body to be in diuers places at one selfe-same instant is not a thing derogatorie to the truth of God The Ministers doo maintaine the contrarie that it should be derogate both to his truth for as much as there should be in him as is said yea and nay and to his wisedome for as much as in his words there should be disorder and confusion and by consequence to his almightinesse because
imagine as fearing they would inferre against them that God then should commit some folly Which would not follow For albeit that some things be esteemed follyes in the iudgement of men neuerthelesse seeing they be in themselues possible they may bee done of God but wisely although humane sence do iudge the contrary euen as in many iudgements man is deceiued esteeming that folly which as saith Saint Paul is wisedome to wards God The Doctors then say that all things imaginable to man are without exception to bee done as touching God the things excepted which imply contradiction to be and not to be Which cannot be done in regard of the repugnancie comming on their part and not by default of the power of God The Doctors pray them that shall bee able to reade these Conferences to note that the Ministers are alwaies found false accusers whē they taxe the Doctors with slaunder as in the former writing they remaine thereof conuinced The Ministers shall finde themselues also false accusers in the article following there where they cut off the saying of the Doctors and falsly impute vnto them that they haue written God can do something against order The Doctors haue well said that it is blasphemy to say that God could do nothing against the order by him established in the world Where appeareth the slaunder of the Ministers who haue clipped the sentence and taken away these words Established in the world In that they inferre it is blasphemy to say that God can doo a thing which is not well ordained It is doublesse but to doo some matter against the order established in the world importeth not some thing disordered but onely a mutation and chaunge of order without any disorder which the Ministers confesse in their article following The Doctors haue in great execration the blasphemies contained in the next article Of which the first is that one body to bee in diuers places is a thing derogatorie to the truth of God for as much as in God there should bee yea and nay So that the Ministers doo say that God should not be true if hee caused one body to bee in diuers places And yet teach they not nor can teach that God hath euer said that one body could not bee in diuers places It impugneth the wisedome of God because that in his workes ther◠should be disorder and confusion Wherin they likewise confesse that God should not be wise if he caused one body at one instant to be in diuers places The third is that such a thing repugneth the omnipotencie of God For in such a worke there should be imperfection So that so farre off is it after the Ministers opinion that God in so dooing should bee almightie that contrariwise he should be imperfect and weake The fourth is that were such a thing done it should bee against the eternall and vnchangeable will of God and therefore God should bee mutable which blasphemies doo necessarily disgorge a manifest Atheisme to wit that God should not bee God if hee made one bodie to bee in diuers places at one selfe-same instant For God cannot be but true wise almightie and vnchangeable which blasphemies the Doctors doo content themselues to quote and marke onely and to admonish what simple stuffe issueth from the doctrine of them which denie the reall presence of the body of Iesus Christ in the holy Sacrament without dwelling vpon further confutation of them as beeing too manifest and hauing regard to that which Ireneus saith that some heresies there be which to discouer is to refute them In the article following do they gainesay that which so often they haue said that God could not cause one bodie to be in diuers places at one instant because it repugneth the order which he hath established in the world As if God could not do otherwise then according to the order alreadie by him established In the present article they confesse that God can change and vnchange the said order From which confession the Doctors drawe such an argument God can chaunge and alter the order which hee hath established in the world and that without preiudice to his truth wisdome power and vnchangeable will Therefore can he chaunge the order by which he hath established as the Ministers wil say that one body shuld be but in one place cause contrariwise the order being chaunged that one body shall bee in diuers places without that the same is any way derogatorie to his truth wisedome power and will And that by consequence God of his omnipotencie can cause one body to be in diuers places As touching the article of the distinction of the will of God the Ministers do confound the whole vnderstanding nothing in the said distinction no more then in that which they say that one body to be in two places is in the ranke of things which God hath declared by his word against the which he can do nothing The question is first of the omnipotencie of God which is reduced to his power and not to his essence and to that which he is in himselfe as to be one wise good which things belong not to the matter of the omnipotencie but of the essence in himselfe Secondly what reason is there to confer the being of one body in one place or to know whether God can cause it to be in two or many places with the essence of God which is one incomprehensible c. seeing that such things of number pertaine to the essence of God and power to make one body in many places doth nothing properly belong vnto it and is not referred vnto the same Thirdly the Ministers say that God by his word haih declared his will because he was one which nothing serueth to the present matter But pardoning the Ministers such follies how dare they cōpare with the matter of Gods essence that which is in question of the being of one body in one or in diuers places seeing God hath neuer said that he could not do it as he hath manifestly shewed all the other perfectiōs which pertaine to the diuine essence Wherby it appeareth that it sufficeth the Ministers to fill vp paper without founding their saying vpon solid reason For as much as they repute it slaunder when one cutteth off some of their words albeit the full sence abide the Doctors do wonder that the Ministers haue not feared the like obiections to them But they are so accustomed therevnto that they cannot beware thereof As in the article where mention is made of the definitiō of a body they passe that ouer in silence which giueth solution to theyr difficultie The Doctors haue defined a bodie to be a kind of firme quantitie of three dimensions length breadth and deepenesse which definition comprehendeth the whole essence of one body which is of the predicament of quantitie and no mention is any way made of the circumscription of place The Ministers say that the Doctors by their definition doo limit the body
the Doctors wel reason of the rigor of Penetrare as the Ministers did of the rigour of Aperire which more often is found in the scripture without signification of the reall opening of the heauens then Penetrare is found in the scripture to signifie a diuision and actuall cutting of the heauens For Aperire Caelos is often found for imaginary and spirituall opening and hardly is Penetrare Caelos euer found for actuall diuision of the heauens And therefore had the Doctors better reason to conclude by the rigour of the verbe Dierchesthai or Penetrare to pierce without actuall diuision of the heauens then the Ministers had to inferre the opening of them by the verbe Aperire The Ministers in the last article obiect to the Doctors that they haue passed ouer some places of scripture by which it appeareth that faith is the worke of God whervnto say the Doctors that in some one of their writings they haue expresly confessed that faith in as much as it is a gift of God it is a worke of God but in as much as he that beleeueth worketh together with God in beleeuing for Nemo credit nisivolēs no man beleeueth vnlesse he be willing it is a humane work And it is not repugnāt one self-same work for diuers causes to be a worke of God and a worke of man And where they say that the auncient Fathers haue said if not in proper yet in equiualent termes that God could not cause one body to be in diuers places that is false And the Ministers neuer haue nor can shewe the same and contradict their last writing For bringing the reason why the Fathers haue not expresly said it It was said they because they neuer thought that such an absurditie would euer fall into the braine of man Which reason ought to haue place for the saying in termes equiualent as in expresse termes sith one selfe-same thing is signified as well by the one as by the other As touching the rest the Ministers neuer answer to the principall point whereof they haue bene so often admonished and they efsoones admonish them should they a thousand times call this saying a repetition to wit that they are required to bring scripture to proue that it repugneth the order established in the world the truth the wisedome omnipotencie and vnchangeable will of God that one body may be in two places which thing they cannot do but they will answere as they are accustomed that is to say nothing Wherein appeareth that their doctrine is not founded vpon Gods word but vpon their owne opinion or particular inspiration which cannot be but of Sathan For it cannot be of the holy Ghost which is against the common consent of the Church vniuersall And vpon the same are also founded the other articles of their religion albeit they disguise them and promise Gods word to euery purpose A short Aduertisement of the Doctors vpon the Ministers Resolution touching the omnipotencie of God THe Doctors are astonied at the fashiō of the Ministers in their words and writings For they themselues from the beginning of the Conference haue neuer had patience to prosecute conclude one onely point without mingling other things therewithall impertinent to the matter in question as shal appeare by the reading of the acts And before their resolution made of the omnipotencie of God they haue heaped vp all the articles which they could remember and throwne one vpon an other without cause or reason Although the Doctors at their request had proposed the Articles of the Supper And after dispute of the omnipotencie of God to make present the body and bloud of Iesus Christ in the holy Sacrament to come orderly to shewe and proue that the will of God hath bene such and that there it is But the Doctors well vnderstand the good custome of all them of the pretended reformed religion which is to spet in the eyes of Christians all the articles of the Religion and theyr inuented filthinesse all on one threed to the end that nought bee determined that all abide in confusion and that the Serpent glide awaye hauing cast his venome Moreouer by obseruation of the Ministers answeres it shall bee seene and knowne that they neuer stay vpon any certaine and the same answere but rather of an act alledged out of the scripture where of euery question they haue giuen therevnto diuers impertinent and sometimes vnsufferable answeres Of which the Doctors do admonish them that can read these Conferences and pray them to haue regard to the same and thereof referre them to their iudgement Furthermore the Doctors admonish the Ministers that they may or ought to knowe that all Sects of our times doo cast before the eyes of those whom they will abuse the same beadroll of Articles which the Ministers in theyr Resolution haue gathered together to get audience against the Church Catholique and to bring in theyr heresies and errors vnder the name of the glorie of GOD. Whereof they boaste to bee defenders as well as the Ministers And therefore are they not so acceptable in theyr opinions and conclusions that the Ministers can pretend any right to exalt the power and glorie of God by such mingling and confounding of all matters together Moreouer the Doctors shewe that they may with better reason retort against the Ministers the conclusiō which they pretend to inferre of the subtiltie and craft of Sathan which is as they write that Sathan vnder faire shewe of pietie glideth like a Serpent into the Church of GOD to put therein disorder and confusion and in the end to assaile God himselfe The Doctors do pray each one to consider in himselfe whether the Ministers purpose be not such by their deductions and generally by the principall points of theyr doctrine For vnder faire pretext to roote out some abuses and errors against the word of the Lord which they falsly studie to perswade the world to bee in the Church Catholique And vnder the shadow to preach that they seeke the aduancement of the name of the same Lord they goe about to spoile God of all his proprieties and perfection albeit they no more declare it then Sathan told his meaning to the first man Furthermore the Ministers abase the merit and efficacie of the bloud of Iesus Christ and open a doore by their doctrine to all vices and sinnes Be it so the Doctors will not repeate what the Ministers haue held concerning the omnipotencie of God because they shall fill their writings therewithall But so it is that in their goodly resolution although they suite it with seemely words that God cannot after them but so much as they please to receiue of his wisdome and will which they disguise after their owne sence when it is found declared in the scripture Against the goodnesse of God they hold that he is the author and worker of euill and of sinne Against his mercie they teach that he neuer pardoneth nor will pardon a man which shall
beene chaunged so ought to bee also the esteeme and reputation in which it hath beene adding therevnto that in whatsoeuer degree of honor she hath bene formerly lifted she hath not neuerthelesse beene esteemed by the Fathers for the vniuersall Church nor her Bishop for vniuersall Bishop As by that which Saint Ierome wrote thereof to Euagrius and by that which concerning the same was determined in one of the Councells of Carthage appeareth And as touching the reformed Church in France the Ministers doo not say that it is the vniuersall and Catholique Church but only a member of the same And that it hath it foundation not vpon the opinioÌ„ or authoritie of men but vpon the doctrine writings of the Prophets Apostles Moreouer as touching the protestations of Charitie and zeale whereby the Doctors feare to bee forced vnto Inuectiues and pursuites which they make against the Ministers and other the faithfull by the example as they say of Saint Augustine and other Bishops which in time past solicited the Magistrates against the Donatists theyr proceedings and fashion which they haue and still doo vse towards the sayd Ministers and faithfull do euidently declare that with false tokens they shrowd themselues by these examples For as much as the Catholiques whome they alledge exhorted the Magistrate to vse all moderation and mildnâ—sse towards the Donatists and other heretiques and to assay all meanes to reduce them before they came to the rygor of paines and iudgement And further they endeuoured to containe and represse the fury of the people and to hinder theyr open violence vpon them Whereas they contrariwise doo stirre vp against the Ministers the people and Magistrates by slaunder and false imputations and by all other fashions meanes they can inuent for this purpose Touching the Omnipotencie of God and the definition thereof which the Ministers haue proposed drawne and extracted out of the bookes of Saint Augustine the Doctors in theyr last writing produce no new thing to cause them leaue the â—ame For that they alledge of the Angels which can do whatsoeuer they will and by that meanes should be almightie as well as God if the abouesayd definition of his Omnipotencie had place is an example from the purpose and which cannot prooue that there is in the Angels any such power as in God For certaine it is that theyr will and power dependeth elsewhere and that God ruleth ouer them to chaunge suspend and hinder them as he pleaseth and as he can do in all other creatures Which none can say of God without blasphemy Howsoeuer it be If the Doctors will reproue the definition of Gods Omnipotency proposed by the Ministers they deale not with them but with S. Augustine For as much as the said definitioÌ„ was word for word copied out of his writings The Ministers do maruell that after they had so amply declared to the Doctors what they thought of Gods Omnipotencie and shewed that it stretched not indifferently to all things which men in theyr foolish phantasies may conceiue or imagine the Doctors will eftsoones harpe on that string alledging that God can do wisely what fooles do foolishly imagine For manifest it is that fooles can imagine many things which are impossible to God As for example that there is no God Psal 14. and 53. That hee is corporeall as thought the Anthropomorphites That the world is eternall as thought the Peripatetiques That there was two beginnings as taught the Manichees All which thinges can no way without blasphemie be attributed to the Omnipotencie of God But that which more contenteth the Ministers is that our Maisters after so long and sharpe combat in this Article and so ofâ—en crying blasphemie when the sayd Ministers proposed the truth thereof are constrayned in the end to accord with them and follow the interpretation and restraint which the Ministers themselues had giuen touching the Omnipotency of God as it appeareth by a sentence of theyr last writing whereof the words are such The Doctors say That all things imaginable to man are possible to be done with God without any exception but of those things which imply contradiction to be and not to be What reason then is there that for the things whereof the Ministers and Doctors agree that they ought to be excepted out of Gods omnipotency the Ministers in excepting them be held for blasphemers not the Doctors which say confesse the selfe-same thing Now this proposition that a naturall body yea that of Iesus Christ is in diuers places at one selfe-same instant is in the ranke of things which imply contradictioÌ„ as it hath bin already sufficiently proued Therfore the Ministers coÌ„clude that the omnipotency of God cannot be referred extended thervnto The Doctors doo afterwards charge the Ministers with foure horrible blasphemies as they say grounding themselues vpon that which the Ministers in defending that one body could not be diuers places at one instant haue said that it repugned the truth wisdome and omnipotency of God Which thing the said Doctors finde so straunge and farre from reason that they would not vouchsafe to staie to refute it thinking it was vnworthie of answere and that it sufficed to haue recyted the same Wherevnto the Ministers answere that it is a very easie and readie meane to rid them speedily of all the difficulties wherein they finde themselues wrapped to say that it is a blasphemy and vnworthie of answere The Doctors yet make instance to the Ministers and say that it behooueth them to shewe by the word of God that one bodie cannot be in diuers places at one instant Wherevnto the Ministers efâ—soones answer that it is for the Doctors to proue the contrary by one text of scripture to wit that one body may be in diuers places at one selfe-same instant seeing that they are proponents in this Conference the Ministers respondents and that neuerthelesse they haue heretofore shewed them by liuely reasons drawne from the scripture and the essentiall proprieties of God froÌ„ the nature of bodies and the authorities of Fathers that the thing in question was wholly impossible And touching the argument which they thus make God can change the order which he hath established in nature Therfore can he also cause that one body at one instant be in many places The Ministers denie the consequence and yeeld reason therof for as much as such a matter should not onely change the order but should wrap vp also a contradiction the which by the confessioÌ„ of the Doctors themselues is excepted out the omnipotencie of God The Doctors in the article following do but reproach the Ministers for they confound and obscure what had bene clearly proposed by the Ministers in their last writing By means wherof let them make if they will more large an answer and expound themselues better Where the Doctors accuse the Ministers to haue maliciously concealed the word place in the matter of circumscription of a measured body the Ministers say
bee briefe could in fauour and contemplation of his merits and dignitie obtaine of God remission of sinnes and the other graces needfull for them which trust in him and instantly desire him Secondly the Ministers say that there is no other sacrifice for sinne but that of Iesus Christ That he is the onely Lambe which beareth the sinnes of the world that there is nothing but his bloud whereby our filthinesse is washed To bee short that God taketh pleasure in no other sacrifice nor oblation and that hee requireth no other burnt sacrifice nor offering for sinne And that therefore Iesus Christe as it is written of him in the rolle of the lawe is come to doo and accomplish the will of God his Father Thirdly they say of the sacrifice of Iesus Christ that it was one onely and once offered by himselfe without that it was euer needfull afterwardes to repeate and reiterate the same considering the perfection and vertue thereof by which sinne is abolished and absolute and eternall sanctification obtained to all the elect as it appeareth in the 9. and 10. of the Hebrewes By meanes whereof no lesse blasphemy it is nor a thing lesse contrarie to the doctrine and meaning of the Apostle to approue the repetition and reiteration of the sacrifice of Iesus Christ then the pluralitie of sacrifices for sinne And if the Doctors would as they wontedly haue to disguise and colour such an abuse shewe forth their distinction betweene the propitiatory and applicatory sacrifice saying that the Priests pretend not in their Masses to sacrifice Iesus Christ for other end then to apply the merite of his death to those for whom they celebrate the same The Ministers answere that in so dooing they should attribute vnto Iesus Christ more then they do because all the fruite of his sacrifice commeth vnto vs by the application thereof As healing commeth not so much by the confection and preparation of the medicine as by the application of the same Furthermore the Ministers would willingly demaund of our Maisters by what meane the benefite of the death of Iesus Christ was applied to the Fathers before his comming seeing that as then they did sing no Masses Well seeth euerie man of any spirite or iudgement that such distinctions are friuolous and onely inuented to obscure the truth and dazell the eyes of the simple and ignorant For Iesus Christ who hath offered the sacrifice is hee himselfe which applyeth the same vnto vs by his spirite his word and his Sacraments To returne then to their former speech and declare why the Fathers haue called the Supper and all the action thereof a sacrifice It behoueth to note that there are many sorts of sacrifices in the Supper As the sacrifice of a contrite heart offered by publike confession of sinnes which there is made After the sacrifice of our body there offered by publike prayer which followeth the said confession Thirdly the sacrifice of praise there offered when they sing Psalmes after the confession and prayer After commeth the preaching of the Gospell which is called a sacrifice Rom. 15. then the confession and prayers ended the Minister presenteth himselfe to the people to preach vnto them the word of God The Almes which is an other kinde of sacrifice was heretofore brought forth in the Supper by the faithfull which would therby testifie not only their remembrance of the graces benefites of God but also their loue desire they had to relieue the necessities of their poore neighbors Besides all these Sacrifices there are yet in the Supper two particular sacrifices wherof mention is made in the writings of the Fathers The bread and the wine which were chosen and taken of the Almes brought thither for the poore and were consecrated that is to say deputed and appointed to the holy and sacred vse of the Supper The other is the memorie of the death and sacrifice of Iesus Christ celebrated and repeated in all the action of the Supper The which for this reason is called a Sacrifice by S. Iohn Chrisostome vpon the Epistle to the Hebrewes when he saith We make not euery day other Sacrifice then that of Iesus Christ. But rather saith he correcting himselfe we make the memorie of that Sacrifice S. Ambrose calleth it the memorie of our redemption To the end that we remembring our Redeemer may obtaine of him increase of his graces in vs. S. Augustine yet proposeth it more clearly vnder a comparison which he bringeth of the dayes of the passion and resurrection of Iesus Christ which he thus applieth when the Feast of Easter approacheth we vse oft times this maner of speech To morrow or within two daies we haue the passion or resurrection of Iesus Christ That cannot properly be vnderstood of the day wherein Iesus Christ suffered death which is long since passed but onely of the memorie of his death which is solempnized and celebrated as this day euery yeare A little after to appropriate his comparison he addeth Iesus Christ hath not he bene one only time offered in himselfe And neuerthelesse in the Sacrament of the Supper not only on Easter day but euery day also is hee offered to the people Also elsewhere The flesh and blood of this Sacrifice were before the comming of Iesus Christ promised by the figures of Sacrifices In the passion of Iesus Christ they were giuen and offered in trueth And after the Ascention of Iesus Christ into Heauen they are celebrated by the Sacrament of remembrance Of these and many other like passages one may deduct that the Fathers haue often called the Supper a Sacrifice by reason that in the same the memory of the Sacrifice of Iesus Christ is renued and celebrated The name of Sacrifice is by the Auncients often also applied to the Almes which the faithfull brought forth in the Supper As by Iustin Martyr in the second Apologie by S. Augustin in the 20. chap. of the 20. book Cotra Faust by S. Ciprian in the booke de Elimosina by S. Iohn Chrysostome Hom. 46. vpon S. Mathew Which thing may also be verified by the Canō of the Masse it selfe where it is said We offer to thy maiestie part of thy gifts benefits which ought to be referred to the Almes of the faithfull which the Minister in the name of the whole Church offered to God They haue sometimes also called the praiers there made Sacrifices As S. Ciprian vpon the Lords Prayer And Eusebius in the 7. of the Ecclesiasticall History Tertullian in the 3. booke against Marcion where alledging that written in Malachy of the cleane offering which ought to be made vnto God from the rysing of the Sunne to the going downe of the same saith that ought to be vnderstood of the Hymnes and praises of God Which S. Ierome expounding the passage aforesaid doth also confirme For conclusion of this matter the Ministers say that all the passages of the bookes of the Fathers wherin mention is