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A13160 A challenge concerning the Romish Church, her doctrine & practises, published first against Rob. Parsons, and now againe reuiewed, enlarged, and fortified, and directed to him, to Frier Garnet, to the archpriest Blackevvell and all their adhærents, by Matth. Sutcliffe. Thereunto also is annexed an answere vnto certeine vaine, and friuolous exceptions, taken to his former challenge, and to a certeine worthlesse pamphlet lately set out by some poore disciple of Antichrist, and entituled, A detection of diuers notable vntrueths, contradictions, corruptions, and falsifications gathered out of M. Sutcliffes new challenge, &c. Sutcliffe, Matthew, 1550?-1629.; Sutcliffe, Matthew, 1550?-1629. Briefe replie to a certaine odious and slanderous libel. 1602 (1602) STC 23454; ESTC S117867 337,059 440

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and robbers are not these gallant fellowes then trow you that suppose the Queenes iustices to be like pirates and robbers and that pirates and robbers may as well spoile men by the high way as they deale with priests according to her Maiesties lawes Finally no hereticks nor miscreants can iustly be reputed martyrs albeit they die for their false conceites and opinions the Donatists died desperatly so likewise did the hereticks called Euphemitae which for the multitude of their supposed martyrs would needs be called ſ Epiphan haeres 80. Martyriani yet did the church of god no otherwise account of them then as of leud hereticks and not as of martyrs as appeareth by the testimony of Eusebius Epiphanius Augustine and other fathers We read also in histories that Turks Tartares Mores oftentimes die most resolutely or rather desperatly for the blasphemous opinions of Mahomet that the t Matth. Paris Assassins that were a sect of desperate cutthrotes like to the Iebusits that desperately would aduenture to dispatch whomsoeuer their generall commanded them to murder suffered death most willingly and constantly and this they accounted a speciall point of their bloody religion yet it were mere madnesse to repute such fellowes martyrs why then should the papists that haue broken their necks and died for the popes cause whom we haue clearely proued to be hereticks be accounted martyrs nay why should rebels traitors and Assassins such as Parrye who by the Cardinall of Comoes letters the popes promises was enduced to lay violent hands on her Maiestie such like wicked men be named martyrs if because they are put in the popes calender it may be easily replied that as at Rome they are put in the popes calender so at Newgate such places they are put in the hangmans calender further it is Christs trueth and not the popes faction that maketh martyrs Those therefore that died in the popes quarrell are traitors and not martyrs and that will be the case also of all their consorts if they passe that way which I would haue not onely all Iesuits and massepriests to consider but also all those that like their humors and opinions neither is it materiall that grace hath bene offered to some that haue bene executed for treason if they would haue renounced the pope his trecherous doctrine and faction for that sheweth not that the parties to whom this grace was offered were no traitors but rather her Maiesties great clemency that was willing to pardon all of whom any hope might be conceiued that they would become good subiects so likewise if a man should offer pardon to an Assassin it doth not proue that such as murder men vpon a leud conceit of wrong religion died as martyrs If then the papists be not the true church I trust all true Christians will avoid them if their doctrine be neither ancient nor catholicke I hope true catholicks will no longer suffer themselues to be abused by them if they be hereticks they will I trust for very shame forbeare to impute heresies to true Christians if massepriests be idolaters I hope religious Christians will take order with them as godly kings did with Baals priests finally if massepriests and the popes agents haue so farre engaged themselues in treason I hope all true subiects will learne to detest popery not onely in regard that it is a false religion but also because it is a packe of leud opinions borne out with all fraud vileny and treason which because it floweth from the forge of Antichristes authority and inuention let vs beséech God to reueale dayly more and more the man of sinne that such as now are abused by him may forsake him and serue God in spirit and trueth according to his holy word And thus much may serue for the declaration and iustification of my challenge it resteth now that I answere my aduersaries exceptions and cauils An answere first vnto such exceptions as by a certaine namelesse and worthlesse fellow are taken to the Challenge precedent and next vnto the same parties most idle obseruations Thereto also is added a briefe of certaine notorious falsifications and vntruthes of the Papists Chap. 1. An answere to Owlyglasses exceptions concerning thirteene vntruthes supposed to be contained in M. Sutcliffes Cha●lenge Sect. 1. The first supposed vntruth cleared IN 19. pages of my challenge and all direct contrary to the doctrine of Papists Owliglasse cannot find so much as any occasion of cauill In the 20. pag●rapi●… numb 10. in my former and in the latter cap. 4 numb 43. bee taketh holde of this that I say That the Papists vse exorcismes blowings salt spittle halowed water annoyntings light and diuers ceremonies neither vsed by the Apostles nor practised by the ancient Church And this sayth he is an vntruth so manifest that Caluin doth confesse it Owlyglasse talking of vntruths in others himselfe vttereth two grosse vntruths in the first charge But what if it be true and what if Master Caluin do not confesse that which I say to bee vntruth Is not Owlyglasse where he goeth about to detect me of one vntruth manifestly takē in a tray and detected to haue vttered two vntruthes in one breath he cannot though he would denie it Well then let vs see first whether my wordes containe vntruth and next whether Caluin confesseth so much or no. Of my proposition there are two partes First I denie that the Apostles vsed these ceremonies now in question and secondly I denie that they were practised by the auncient Church of Christ Iesus Now against the first part of my wordes Owliglasse can obiect nothing neither doth hee so much as touch it But wēt he about to alledge any thing yet the Hystorie of the Actes of the Apostles and Christ his institution would refute his allegations For in neither of the two are any such ceremonies to be found Agaynst the second part he alledgeth Caluins wordes Instit lib. 4. ca. 15. art 19 for exufflations halowing of water annoynting and light and for exorcismes in baptisme he produceth Nazianzen For salt hee quoteth the words of Origen For spittle he citeth the wordes of Ambrose and the name of Petrus Chrysologus But neither doth Caluin nor any of these fathers mention either the vse of the Apostles or practise of the ancient Church nor doth any father speake of all these ceremonies together nor can the practise of the Romish Church in the signes and formes of these ceremonies be iustified by fathers either to haue béene in the whole Church or in any one singular Church nor to come nearer to our aduersaries can any one concludent argument be drawne out of any of the Fathers agaynst that which I teach Caluin sayth He knoweth how ancient the ceremonies of exufflation Lib. 4. instit ca. 15 num 19 halowing of water of annoynting and lights is Which if I should confesse yet could not Owlyglasse conclude that such ceremonies were vsed in the time of the
readers view a representation or liuely paterne of a conference that is notable vntrueths and falsifications c. and these also he auoucheth he will gather out of master Willets and my writings wherein I would pray all moderate papists to consider with indifferency this fond speech of this most miserable popish creature and proctor he calleth notable untrueths and falsifications a paterne of such a conference as he desireth If then he desire a conference he must needs desire vntrueths and falsifications if his words haue any sence I know he hopeth to picke them out of our writings but if he finde any they must be such as are vttered by himselfe and his conforts and not by vs. in the meane while his fellowes are sory to see him speake so foolishly of conferences vntrueths and falsifications Fiftly He e Fol. 1. praef talketh also verie idelly of backe dores and deceitfull entries such as Daniel detected in Bels idolatrous priests which if I did not know the mans great simplicity I would haue imagined to haue beene foisted into his Praeface by some backe friend to popish religion to the great disgrace of Romish priests that by backe dores and deceitfull entries play many lewd parts with their nonnes in Spaine and Italy and with recusants wiues maides and daughters where they are lodged and interteined in England as shall be prooved by particulars if any 〈◊〉 to aske me the question These also doe worship idoles as brutishly as the f Daniel 14. in the Latin translation Babylonians did Bel and set vp the images of saint Anthony and saint Dominicke and other saints vpon altars as the Babylonians did their god Bel. finally they burne incense to their idoles and crouch to them and offer sacrifices before them as the idolatrous priests did before Bel. There resteth therefore nothing to make them all like to Bels priests but now their fraudes and cousinages and idolatries and impieties are discouered that some zelous prince would doe with the popish priests of Baal in England and other places as the king of Babylon did with the priests of Bel in his country and that would make an end both of the whole controuersy and of this idle fellowes brabling 6 Likewise under the title of his booke hee setteth downe this verse g Hierom 14. falsely saieth the Lord doe the prophets prophesie in my name I haue not sent them nor commanded them nor spoken to them they prophesie unto you a lying vision and diuination and fraud and the deceipt of there owne heart whereby it seemeth he was hired to speake shame and reproch of his owne most lewd companions comming directly from antichrist and not from Christ of the church of Rome that in liew of Gods word readeth fables and lying legends and of the pope that in his lying decretales brocheth the deceits of his owne heart neither can this prophesie be expounded of any so fitly as of the false priests of Baal that come with faculties from the pope without any one word of authority or lawful mission from God and that prophesie lying visions of the restoring of the idolatrous religion of papists and preach the fancies and deceits of there owne hearts out of their masters conie●turall and false dictates I know he aimeth at vs. but hauing chosen this sentence for an ornament of the front of his lying pamphlet he must be content to take it to himselfe and must for any helpe he shall haue of vs necessarily be forced to apply it to his friends where it is best deserued 7 Talking of suposed falsifications he saith three things make a falsary first changing of the trueth into falshood secondly craft and malice and lastly domage or hurt and to proue his words true he alledgeth the names of Hostiensis and Panormitan two ancient canonistes but vnlesse he acquit himselfe the better in talking of falsification it will be proued that he hath falsely alledged these two authors no man certes euer talked more simply of falsity and falsaries then this falsary for not either change of trueth into falshood is falsity no albeit it be craftily done with detriment to some person for then should euery malicious and hurtfull liar be a falsary also and the authours and approuers of the Romish legends and breuiaries should also be notorious falsaries hauing told many grosse malicious lies to the great slander and hurt of religion nor hath our aduersary rightly defined a falsary for a falsary is he that in writings addeth or detracteth or altereth any thing fraudulently as appeareth by the glosse in c. in memoriam dist 19. and as the Romanistes shew themselves to be by their expurgatory indexes but saith our detractor in the margent in the french copy printed by Hierome Verdussen it is so but this is contrary to the text beside that we are no more ro beleeue the print of Hierome Verdussen then of Iulian Greenesleue if our aduersary will make such crakes he must bring vs better authours then Hierome Verdussen or the popish reporter of the conference betwixt M. Plesu and Eureux is it then likely that our aduersary should conuince vs of falsification that albeit himsefe committeth many grosse falsifications yet knoweth not what this word meaneth which may also appeare in this that he chargeth me with falsification in the first and second place noted page 47. 51. where I doe not so much as alledge any writing or any mans words but onely quote Augustin and Epiphanius in the margent to shew that my assertion may be proued out of their writings 8 His metaphors and profound allegoricall speeches he vseth to draw from womens rocks as though saith he he had not towe inough to his rocke which sheweth that this companion is better seene in womens rockes and frockes then in any point of diuinity beware therefore you of the cacolicke crew that such gallants come not neere your wiues daughters nor maids that they play not with you a tricke of their cacolicke religion if you beleeue not me beleeue Palingenius that would haue such mates excluded out of mens houses that meane to keepe their women chast 9 And although this is the mans great simplicity and weaknesse yet would he needs incounter at one time M. Willet and me both together nay as if we were nothing in this giants hands with great arrogancy he setteth also vpō M. Thomas Bell a man while he was yet a popish priest among them accounted the most learned sufficient and graue man among their company and now well knowen by his learned workes not answerable at the least not answered to haue much profited since but what is it that our wise aduersary obiecteth that he should cry out so loud against Master Bell what is the Gordian knot that he supposeth to be insoluble forsooth because he saith that the bishops of Rome vntill the daies of Saint Augustine and long after were very godly men and taught the same doctrine that Saint Peter
paines as if at the last iudgement all that stand on the left hand as it is written in the 25. chap. of saint Matth. shall not by the sentence of the iudge be adiudged to euerlasting fire or as if that sinne that brought condemnation vpon all should not be punished with sensible paines or as if there might be a place in hell without sensible paines or finally as if there were a middle state betwixt heauen and hell fire Saint f Lib. 1. de orig animae c. 9. Augustine certes saith there is no middle place betweene the kingdome of heauen and the place of the damned g Lib. de fide c. 3. Fulgentius likewise doeth plainely affirme that children dying without baptisme shall susteine endlesse punishments and h Lib. 8. moral c. 16. Gregory the first holdeth that such shall endure the perpetuall torments of hell argument 32 Martin ab Aspilcueta in his Enchiridion writing vpon the first precept of the law chap. 11. saith that it is mortall sinne for a lay man to dispute of matters of faith but catholikes doe not acknowledge any such matter to be mortall sinne argument 33 The papists teach that men haue grace conferred on them by their owne acts ex opere operato and that they are iustified ex opere operato by the sacraments of the new law whereupon it followeth that by the signe of the crosse in confirmation by orders matrimony and extreme vnction men receiue charitie for that is the grace they speake of and are iustified exopere operato for this doeth Bellarmine dispute lib. 2. de effectu sacrament cap. 3. and 14. and other chapters following which doctrine if they doe prooue then ex opere operato let him take the grace of the popedome if he doe not prooue he must néedes confesse that the doctrine of papists is not catholike argument 34 The Iebusites in the censure of Colein teach that the regenerat after baptisme haue no sinne and it followeth necessarily of their doctrine of iustification by the works of the law for by them a man can not be both vniust and iust at one time but the cathotike faith is otherwise S. Iohn saith that they deceiue themselues that say they haue no sinne and other scriptures signify i Prouerb 20. that no man can say his hart is cleane neither is this to be vnderstood of veniall sinnes which the papists say may be done away without repentance for S. k Lib. 2. aduers Pelagian Hierome saith that the most iust man in some things standeth in need of Gods mercy and it is apparent for that euery man transgressing the law of God which is the case of all men maketh himselfe subiect to the curse of the law and to the wrath of God argument 35 Papists teach that some sinnes are done away with holy water and without repentance and deserue not death but no catholike euer taught or thought so for the apostle teacheth vs that by Christes blood we are purged and that wée are made partakers of remission of sinnes by faith In the sixt to the Rom. he declareth that the wages of sinne is death and Galat. 3. that such as transgresse Gods law are accursed by the sentence of the law argument 36 They l Censur Colon. f. 204. teach also that this is the proper doctrine of the Gospel if thou wilt enter into life keepe the commandements but catholikes know that those that so teach confound law and gospel and ouerthrow the doctrine of the apostles for he m Rom. 1. teacheth that the gospel is the power of God to saluation to euery one that beleeueth their doctrine doth take from vs all hope of saluation for how can we hope to be saued by the gospel if that promise life to none but such as perfectly fulfil Gods commandements argument 37 They doe also much derogate from the gospell of Christ Iesus where they teach that the rules of Benet of Nursia Francis Dominike Ignatius Loyola and diuers other founders of monkish and frierlike orders doe shew vs the way to perfection and holde not that the gospel of Christ Iesus is sufficient of it selfe to do it true catholikes certes neuer mainteined any such fantasies nor allowed any such order which may also appeare by this that all these orders of monkes and friers haue their approbation and allowance from the popes of Rome argument 38 Of saith they speake thinke and write very basely for they holde first that faith is onely a bare assent and requireth neither firme hope nor holinesse of life to make it truely Christian secondly that not onely wicked men but also the diuels of hell may haue true faith thirdly that faith is not only grounded vpon holy canonicall scriptures but also vpon traditions and determinations of the pope which if they firmly holde and vary not then must they confesse that we are no lesse to giue credit to lousie legends and lying and erronious decretals of popes than to the eternall word of God But true catholikes haue alwaies beléeued otherwise The apostle n Rom. 1. saith that the iust shall liue by faith and the church beléeueth that o Iohn 3. whosoeuer beleeueth in Christ shall not perish but haue euerlasting life and p Rom. 5. that being iustified by faith wee haue peace with God further the apostle q Rom. 10. teacheth that faith commeth by hearing and hearing by the word of God but there is great difference betwixt the word of God and traditions of men betwixt the infallible trueth of Gods word and the deceiuable doctrine of popes decretals argument 39 They teach that charity is the forme of faith but catholiks haue alwaies taken this doctrine to be erronious for how can one vertue be the forme of another againe séeing matter and forme be parts in natural bodies is it not absurd to apply these words to qualities that rather resemble forme than matter thirdly if iustifying faith were alwaies formed with charitie then could not faith worke of it selfe for it is the forme from whence actions procéed and not matter but the apostle r Rom. 1. saith that the iust liue by faith and Ephes 2. that wee are saued by grace through faith hereupon ſ Lib. 2. epist 3. Cyprian saith that whosoeuer doth beleeue in God and liue by faith he is found to be iust argument 40 They t Bellar. lib. 1. de fid c. 13. attribute our first iustice to faith and other preparations as for example feare hope loue repentance a purpose of new life and such like but the principall forme and beauty of our iustice they place in charitie and works of the law and that they call our second iustice but true catholikes doe otherwise thinke and speake of iustice The u 1. Cor. 1. apostle saith that our Sauiour Christ is made iustification vnto vs and x Rom. 3. Gal. 2. 3. that we are not iustified by the workes of