first Lye you chardge vs with is that your bare affirmations are held authenticall of your auditorye Our answere is That you haue drawen an absolute Proposition from conditionall words We in our Letter reproued you for not adding Doctrine to your lypps some proofe to your assertions saying that except you would haue your owne bare affirmation to be held as authenticall with vs as it is with your miserable auditorie that haue no power or freedome publicklie to censure or reproue anie false Doctrine that you publickly delyuer c. Here is in these words no vntruth be your Doctrines neuer so blasphemous pernitious your Church hath no power presently publickly to cēsure you or them but must ioyne vnto you still in prayer Sacraments vntill their Lord Ordinarie redresse the matter or if he will not they must then swallow all vp how impious soeuer they be Lo◅ke for this lawe in the booke of your aduertisments in the Articles for doctrine preaching Now howe far your Doctrines are authenticall to that woefull people that haue no power in themselues to call them into question to examin trye or censure thē iudge you Yea how Authenticall you would haue your owne bare affirmations esteemed let these your 3. letters shew where you haue not added one reason to proue or disproue anie thinge you affirme or denie but your owne bare word But they must not be so with vs who meane to examin them by the Scriptures before we receiue them The word authenticall peraduenture we had not vsed had not you gyuen occasion in your former letter in these words I trust my affirmation shalbe as authenticall as yours Which presumptuous words you would not haue vsed if you had not thought well of your self and some speciall authoritie to be gyuen to your words As for vs we seeke no credit furder then we speake according to truth neither hold or would haue anie thing held authenticall besides or with the holy word of God The second lye should be that it vvas sufficiently proued in our last Conference that your BBs vvere that Antichrist 2. This we doubt not to affirme you cannot deny but your Bishopps were there proued to vsurpe both Ciuile ecclesiasticall Offices iurisdiction that they hold execute diuers ecclesiasticall Offices of your Church at one time as to be Doctors Pastors Superintendents L. Bishops L. Arch-bishops and these togeather with their Ciuile Offices being Iudges in Courtes Iustices of peace manie LL s. Palatyne all Lords of Parliament states of the land That they vsurpe exercise the whole power of the Church in making ministers in the vse of excommunicatiō hereby confounding commingling the whole order of God all the Ordinances both of Church and Common wealth inue◅t all the Ordinances of CHRIST his Testament It was there shewed and proued that they which presume into CHRISTS place vsurpe his title and offices are those An◅ichrists or that Ant◅christ and that your Bishops vsurpe CHRISTS place in that they take and holde his Bride vnto thē making the whole Church to heare their voice to beare their yoke of their antichristian burdenous tradit◅ōs that they vsurpe CHRIST his titles CHRIST being the only Lord Arch-cheif high Bishop of Bishopps to whom all Bishops shall accompt And therfore these titles are vppon them but the names of blasphemye written vppon the heads of that Beast That they vsurpe CHRISTS Offices in that they take vppon them to rule ouersee so manie Pastors Churches to walke in the middest of the 7. goldē Cādlesticks to giue lawes to the church c. To be short they were proued vnto you to be that Antichrist or those Antichrists for we hope you will not tye the title to the person of one mā only in that they change inuert yea ouerthrowe cast out al the Offices ordinacs which CHRIST hath appointed vnto his Church euē the whole ministerie Testament of CHRIST And haue in place therof brought in set vp their owne new forged antichristian ministerie of Archbishopps L. BB s. Arch-deacons Comissaries Parsons Vickers Curatts Deacons or halfe Priests euen all the horned Cleargie Romishe Officers popish Courts and innuberable enormous Canons Cōstitucōns of Antichrist As also their newe deuised publique Liturgie wherby the whole worship ministracōn of your Church yea vvherby the vvhole word of God is stinted lymited to Eaues Dayes houres to fasts feasts c. vvhat parts shredds therof they will haue read what parts suppressed cast out c. Now if all these euident concurring peremptorie marks do not manifestly proue them to be that those Antichrists euen that abhomination of desolation standing in the holy place let him that readeth consider And for your furder assurance let vs now ad vnto their barbarous hauocke their dayly beastlike crueltye tyrannie persecution blasphemie of the truth seruants of CHRIST and you may then the Lord opening the eyes of your vnderstanding euidently see them to be that monsterous Beast spoken of in the Reuelation Iudge now in your self which way you could or can with all the learning you haue or want with stand these reasons or how all the false Prophets that flowe from guarde the throne of Antichrist can finde anie phisique or Baulme for these wounds of the Beast So then your 3. 4. Lyes That it should be in effect vvholy yeilded vnto by you 4. And agreed vppo◅ a◅ongst your selues that the BBs are Antichrists We hope will not proue so incredible especially when they shalbe confirmed to your face as they were vnto your fellow M r. SPERINS by sondrye credible eare witnesses that were present if you continue so shameles to denie it V◅to your 5. Lye That you haue brokē the o◅th of y◅ur Canonicall obedience We answere that you greatly mistake the matter we neuer so sclaundered you we always thought you ouerwell obserued that vngodly oath Our words in our letter were that we neede not stand to proue that your ministerie was deriued from exercised vnder theis BB s. neither durst you stand to denie it not so much for breaking the oath of your Canonicall obedience vvhich you haue sworne vnto them as least you should therfore be called before them c. Here leauing the whole estate of the BB s. vvho were proued by vs and confessed by you to be A◅tichristes as also passing by the present estate of your owne ministerie which is deriued from exercised vnder them therfore proued vnto you to be Antichristian vnlesse yt you may belong vnto stand vnder two diuers heads and these so contrary as CHRIST ANTICHRIST But all these waightie matters you vvillingly passed bye after the maner of all timeseruing Pharises and picking a quarrell at these 3. points in your
fessed enemies of CHRIST of his gospell such whom your self hath confessed to be Antichristian with whō you haue not ōly sit amongst the other Commissioners in Caiaphas house but also by an especiall ticket according to their Mandat◅ were sent out amongest the chosen bande of their guard to feight against the poore persecuted witnesses of Christ yea amongst the rest of your subornate witnesses to lay in wayte against the bloud of the Saints endeuoring by the deepe learning of Sa◅an to entangle them into the same counterfet walking with your self as also by your Sophisticall distinctiōs to obscure turne away the truth peruerting cōfounding al Gods ordinaces calling light darkenes darknes light labouring to perswade that one mā may execute both ciuile ecclesiastical offices at once Yea though he so do yet his ministrie in both of thē is lawfull Likewise that though one man executed sondry Offices of the Church at one tyme yet this his ministerie in them all is lawfull also Yea though the Bishop execute a strange tyrānicall ministerie neuer read nor heard of in the Testament of CHRIST vsurping authoritie ouer so manie Churches Pastors possessing the very Chaire of ANTICHRIST corrupting changing the whole ministerie and Ordinances of the Gospel c Yet are they to be esteemed true Ministers of CHRIST their ministeriall actions good Theis sondrye other enormous blasphemous Doctrines you strowed emongst vs and sought to confirme them by these such lyke poysoned distinctions Not simplie euell Not simply vnlawfull Good in parte Though it be vnlawfull to execute diuerse Offices yet are not his actions therein vnlawfull Though his Office he executeth in the Church be vnlawfull yet are his ministeriall actions lawfull Of the substance of the essen c. without which you cannot reason nor by the euident testimonie of Gods word approue your doings vnto all men Now let the christian or but indifferent Reader iudge of the leauen poyson of theis distinctions cauills of what spirit they proced and by whom they are vsed whither by you or by vs. As for the opinions name of Browne there is no cause you should vpbraid vs therwith he being a mā with whom we had neuer anie thing to doe neither may haue in this estate of his Apostacy He is now a member of your Church toward whom we thinke you walke not according to CHRISTS rule neither yet deale brotherly with him much lesse as beseemeth a guyde teacher of the Church thus to publish raile of your Brother Browne without and before christian admonition orderly censure But hauing thus behaued your self towards him that is so ◅ere vnto you we must not think it strange if you multiplie your reproches vppon vs that are deuided so far from you as Sion is from Babilon Cōcerning that Conference or rather that summe of our conference this we say We in all louing maner sent it vnto you to peruse correct or to shew your dislike wherein you iudged it faultye Yea we gaue you free lybertie if you disliked anie of those answers which you then made vnto our reasons to alter chaunge them as your self vppon better aduise should thinke meete so loath were we to gyue you the least cause of offence so desirous to haue the truth further brought to light which if you had performed with that faithfullnes and modestie that beseemed you we expected in so high causes then had you not gayned this iust blame publick infamie you now by these your dealings haue brought vppon your self But in steade of this loe you haue pronounced the whole wryting which we sent feyned Some things there vvanting vvhich vvere spoken Manie things there expressed vvhich vv◅re neuer spoken nor imagined by you And most things there spoken peruer◅ed by ◅s Finally you found it so full of partialitye so voide of vpright and true dealing and so far out of order as you haue neither leisure nor lust to deale vvith yt First we say there was no cause you should expect to haue euery thing wrytten that was then spoken both in regard of our fraile slippery memories as also that we signified vnto you our intent to be but to summe vp the discourse of such cheif pointes as were then handled willingly passing by other impertinent and lesse necessarie speaches But yet if you can call anie to remembrance which may anie way benefit you or preiudice vs if you shall signifie them vnto vs we will most willingly insert them For the order we will not greatly contend because it is of lytle moment vnto vs Yet is there cause we should aswell remember it as you because we were both alyke in the action had the Propositions before vs which you knowe were writtē as the matters fell out in handling But now touching your other chardges of adding peruerting falsefying c. Surely if theis things stoode thus great were our sinne toward God towards you Yea woe vnto our selues if we should walke vvith such festered consciences Hovv should vve thē appeare before God or men vvith comfort Though the measure of our gyfts be smale yet God accepteth the vvorke of his ovvne Spirit We need not neither euer did defend his most plaine pure truth against the most subtile malignant aduersaries vvith lyes falsefying sclaundering c. muchlesse in this actiō as you chardg vs. No God is vvitnesse vnto our consciences vvith vvhat care vprightnes vve haue set dovvne these things being guyltie to our selues of no such crimes as you accuse vs. Yea for our further clearing herein vve haue set dovvne no one poynt of importance vvhich vve tooke not in vvryting from your ovvne mouthes euen before your eyes read it in your presence and in the hearing of sondry honest vvitnesses vvhich Propositions vvitnesses still remaine to be produced in record of the truth against you or vs vvherein vve depart frō the same And surely much better had you prouided for your ovvne credit and much more impeached ours if you had set downe some perticulers vvherin vve had thus falsified peruerted before you had in this maner reproched vs especially being requested thervnto by vs vvho not trusting to much to our ovvne memories first sent our Copie vnto the vvitnesses then vnto you to correct or reproue vvhat you dislyked or thought amisse therein vve being alvvayes ready most desirous to alter it according to the truth But you as though there were no Iudge in heauē no witnesses in earth of the things that passed betwixt vs haue most boldlye without all feare shame or truth denied euē what your owne mouth vttered accusing vs as voide of all vprightnes true dealing full of partialitie c. and all to hide your owne corrupt estate the vanitie weaknes of your defenses from the eyes of the world Not being able nor daring to produce or alledge anie one pointe in perticuler
authenticall with vs as yt is with your miserable Auditorie that haue no power or freedome publickly to censure or reproue anie false Doctrines that you publickly deliuer But for the truth proof of these assumptious we still refer you as before we referred you to a furder consideration of that summe of our said conference with somme better heed conscience Where you shall finde these things you now denâ—…e sufficiently proued in effect wholy yeilded vnto by your self For if these your lordes Arch-bishopps Bishopps be agreed vpoÌ„ amongst your selues to be that Antichrist how should that ministerie which is Deriued from them exercised vnder them be held the true ministerie of Christ except the same ministerie may be deriued from and exercised vnder two diuers heades and those so coÌ„trary as Christ Antichrist Now that your whole ministerie is thus deriued held of your Lordes these Arch-Bishopps Bishopps we hope we nâ—…ede not stand to proue neither dare stand you to denie not so mich for breaking the oath of your Caâ—…onicall obedience which you haue sworne vnto them as least you be therfore called before them scilenced depriued imprisoned by them As to the people to whom you stand a Minister they were all by your owne confâ—…ssions immediatlie froÌ„ Idolatrie receaued by constreint into your Church without the preaching of the Gospell goinge before to call them to the Faith or beforâ—… anie Chriâ—…tian voluntarie profession made by them in perticular to witnesse their Faith true conuertion But yt is manifest they all still remaine in the same confusion disorder seruile subiection togeather with you vnto these your Lordes Bishops their Courtes Officers Canons Vnto which people in this estate you for the wage hire of BALAAM are powred forth and administer the Sacraments to them by your Lord Bishop his CoÌ„mandement that in a Doctors Office as you pretend Or els at such times flee touche and hide your self out of the way withdrawing your self froÌ„ their fellowship at such solemnâ—… feastes as this your Easter c. when by the lawes of your Church you were to administer the Communion vnto them Thus you may see your naked deniall nor all the Conning anie of you haue wil not serue to couer mich lesse to cure these Egiptian malignant vlcers that are founde vpon the meÌ„ that haue the marck of the Beast that worship his Image Wherfore we still exhort you in the name feare of God not anie loÌ„ger to striue against the prickes or gnawe your tongue for grief remayninge impâ—…nitent hardened in your vngodly workes But rather whilâ—…st grace is offred to purge your self through vnfâ—…yned repentance in that fountaine which is opened to the house of DAVID for sinne for vncleannes by forsaking your euill wayes Antichristian ministrie and now yet at length taking vp your crosse to ioyne your self vnto the holie armyâ—… of Saintes that war in all faithfull and patient maner vnder the conduct of the Lambe against all the trumpery tyrannye of Antichrist that so you may haue comfort assurance vnto your owne soule Which grace that you may find shew vve shall not cease hartely to praye and by all the meanes we may to procure vnto you In the meane time wishing you so to fare prosper as your soule prospereth and as you walke according to the rule of Gods word HENRY BARROVV IHON GRENEVVOOD Prisoners for the truth of the gospell and wiâ—…nesses against all Antichrists marcked souldiours proceedings In that you receiued our second Letter no soones you are to impute yt to your owne absence that could no sooner be spoken withall by our Messenger who was at your house to deliuer yt you vpon the 18. of the 4. Moneth and at sondrie other times since Written this 5. day of this 5. Moneth To M r. BARROVV Mr. GREENVVOOD MOre truth loue to you c. Because your Letters receiued the 6. of the 5. Moneth hath in it as manie lyes as myne to you to my remembrance hath lynes I thinke it the best course to set them before you to moue in you some remorse except it be with you as the Prophet saith 〈◊〉 impius erubescere 1. That my bare affirmations are held authenticall of my auditorye 2. That it was sufficiently proued the last conference our BB s. were that Antichrist 3. That it was in effect wholy yeilded vnto by me 4 That it is agreed vppon amongst our selues that they be that Antichrist 5 That I haue broken my oath of Canonicall obedience 6. That I haue sworne Canonicall obedience vnto the BB s. 7 That I dare not deny their authoritie for feare of sylence prison c. 8. That the people by our owne confessions were all recâ—…iued by constraint immediatly from Idolatrie into our Church without preaching of the Gospell 9. That all the people remayne still in the same disorder confusioÌ„ c. 10 That I am powred out in the wages of BALAAM 11 That I administer the Sacraments at the L. Bishopps CoÌ„mandement 12 That I hid my self at Easter 13 That I am bound to minister the Lords Supper at Easter 14 That I haue the marke of the Beast 15 That I worship his Image What shalbe thy reward o thou lying tongue c. Without shalbe doggs enchaunters c. and all that loueth makeâ—…h lyes If BARROVV and GREENVVOOD be so voide of grace what should we thincke of that pitifull bande of seduced Schismaticks The Lord giue you repentance Amen 5 of Maye 1590. I. EGERTON To M r. EGERTON Theyr poison as the poison of a Serpent As the deafe Adder sâ—…opping 〈◊〉 eare Psal. 58. THe Lord rebuke SATAN iudge betâ—…ixt vs. This your reprochfull Letter of the 6. of this 5. Moneth we receiued the 10. of the same Moneth We fynde it so full of vanitie vituperie blasphemie as it deserueth none answere or speaking of eyther in regard of the matter conteyned or Author thereof were it not for the satisfying of others to whom these our coÌ„trouersies may come Wherfore as your best profes either to conuince vs or to defend your self haue hitherto bene the naked asâ—…ertions false chardgâ—…s of your owne mouth without aâ—…ie place of Scripture or waight of reason aledged so wheÌ„ we shall make â—…ut a short sudden demonstratioÌ„ of the truth of these Positions which you haue collected out of our Letter and as rashly pronounced lyes we doubt not your present euill estate bad dealing shall as sodenly lye open vnto all men to your self also if you be not of those euill men and imposters the Apostle speaketh of that shall goe forward to the worse seducing being seduced c. Touching your cattologue of lyes wherof you accuse vs we thus through the grace of God shall cleare our selues and shew the truth of as manie as we acknowledge c. The
Prophets yet you will not say that they were not ordinary Magistrates GRE. Euery Prophet was not a Minister of the teÌ„ple in the priests office COOP. SPER. The Prophetts office vvas a ministeriall office BAR. None but Leuites might bâ—… Ministers of the Tabernacle buâ—… ther were manie Prophetts which were not of the tribe of Leui. But what is this to our purpose was not MOSES IOSEPH theis others ciuile Magistrates M r. COOPER will you confesse your error COOP. They were no ordinarie Magistrates BAR. Yt is euident they were ciuile Magistrats ordinary excellent magistrats according to the reuealed will of GOD. But you will yâ—…ild vnto no truth but cauil perueâ—…slie against the euident Scriptures Amongst mich coÌ„fused speach that passed betwixt M r. SPERIN me HENRY BARROVV after that our conference was broken vp in following his last assertion That he held not himself a Minister by tâ—…e Bishops Ordination vntill he had the â—…pprobation of the people He first coÌ„fessed the BB s. ordinatioÌ„ to be a ciuile constitution Then that the Bishops by the Princes Commandement may ordeyne Ministers by their sole authority Because Timoâ—…hi Tiâ—…us did ordenie Elders alone When it was alleadged that Timothi Titus did ordeine them according to the Apostles constitutions and as the Apostles themselues vsed to do which alwaies was by the free election of the flocke 1. Cor. 4. 17. Act. 1â—… 23. he said that Timothi Titus as also the Apostles wâ—…re Ministers alone without the peoples electioÌ„ And that the world 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Act. 14. 23. had relation vnto the Apostles that liâ—…ed vp their hands before they laid them on and not vnto the people that lifted vp their â—…andes to signifie their approbation in the election He said that if â—…o bâ—… this Act. 14. were to be vnderstood of the peoples election yâ—…t theâ—… were no morâ—… places to proue that the 〈◊〉 ought to chuse their Ministers Being demaunded what he thought of Acts. 1. Acts. 6. of 1. Timoâ—… 3. Titus 1. he said that Acts. 6. was but of Deacons onlie and as for the other places they proued not that the people might chuse their Elders Being demauÌ„ded who then were to make choise probation of the Elders he said that Timothi Titus in those chapters Being asked who now was to succeed Timothi Tiâ—…us seing they had lest no heires apparaÌ„t behind them he said the BB s. were to chuse ordeine them who now being old and able to take no more paynes were to gouerne ouer manie Churches as they did Being asked of 1. Timoth. 3. vers 10. who was to chuse and make probatioÌ„ there he confessed that the Church being asked whether that rule of probation belonged not also were spoken of Elders in like maner he said no. but onlie of Deacons being asked if the woâ—…d hosâ—…utos in the 8. verse had not relation vnto the â—…ame chusers and gaue not now rules vnto them concerning Deacons also And how he could by that chapter make anie distinction or shew whie the former rules â—…oÌ„cerning the chusing of Elders should not aswell belong vnto the Church as theis concerning Deacons or whie if the former belonged vnto Timothi theis also should not belong vnto Timothiâ—… he answeared still that the Church was to chuse Deacons but not Elders In furder discourse of theis rules for the gifts maners rules of the conuersatioÌ„ life of theis Elders which were such as could be knowne vnto examined by none but by the church where they liued which shewed that theis rules of their Election were giuen â—…nto the Church wherin Timothie was rather to help instruct the Church then anie way to plucke away the power authoritie interest of the church he answeared that Timothi could onlie best try the gifts learning of theis Ministers and therfore the choise approbation were giuen to him onlie Being demâ—…unded whether ther were not manie rules concerning sondrie christian vertues of manners conuersation towards all men of the gouerning of themselues of their wiues children families which belonged were Common to the teaching and gouerninge Elders which the Church wheâ—… they liâ—…ed could only best iudge He said that 1. Timothi 3. Titus 1. were onlie wriâ—…ten vnderstood of Pâ—…stors Teachers because yt is ther said a Bâ—…hop must bâ—… didacticos which is onlie peâ—…ulier vnto the Pastor Teacher Neither would he yeild though yt were shewed him that the name care of Elders were common vnto all aswell the gouerning as teaching Elders that most of the rules accorded vnto them indifferently Acts â—…0 Furder that he could shew no â—…ther rules iâ—… the Testament of CHRIST for the election of the gouerning Elders then there Wherupon he fell into this grosse opinioÌ„ also That those Elders Deâ—…cons were one office Not vnderstaÌ„ding Ro. 12. 8. 1. Tim. 5. 17. Phil. 1. 1. Retorning againe vnto the BB s. being demauÌ„ded by what warraÌ„t they may vsurpe this inordinate power ouer all the churches In processe of speach he was driueÌ„ to acknowledge yt onlie to be by the Princes authoritie not by the Testament of CHRIST so held them to be meerly ciuile Being demaunded what theÌ„â—…e thought of their ministerie SacrameÌ„ts which they deliuered he awhile denying that they medled with the Sacraments or ministrie in th' end being pressed because they in all the Parishes of their diocesses did might at their pleasure preach and deliuer the Sacraments whether the Church Parson would or no yea they will make the Parson follow them with the Cupp booke yea the B. will scilence suspend or remoue what Minister or Parson he list Here M â— SPERIN said that the Bishop did not neither should administer anie Sacraments in his Pâ—…rish Thus vvith one breath he affirming and denying grauâ—…ting and retracting I â—…old him that I vvould not from hencefourth 〈◊〉 more reason or Confâ—…r vvith him vntill he brought a better Conscience vvith him To coÌ„clude seing he neither vnderstood the Scriptures wherof he so bouldlie affirmed or denied seing he vnderstood not the verie first Doctrines beginnings of CHRIST as the Doctrines of laying on of hands of Election ordination c. neither yet knewe so mich as the offices that belonged to the Church of CHRIST he was altogeather vnworthie vnfit to be a teacher or exercise anie gouernment in the Church of CHRIST Saying that God would er long shew who were fitt Ministers to drawe neere vnto him He said vnto me that I medled which more then I needed and that I did but take a wolf by the eares I said that he abused and vnderstood not that Prouerbe also that I did not immiscere alienae liti That yt was a matter of mine owne saluation that I stood for in refusing all subiection or CoÌ„munion with ANTICHRIST his detestable enormities that euerie true Christian ought to