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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A43972 Behemoth, or, An epitome of the civil wars of England, from 1640 to 1660 by Thomas Hobs ... Hobbes, Thomas, 1588-1679. 1679 (1679) Wing H2213; ESTC R9336 139,001 246

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Not Guilty He has divided the Duty of Man into three great Branches His Duty to God to Himself and to his Neighbour In his Duty to God he puts the acknowledgment of him in his Essence and his Attributes and in believing of his Word his Attributes are Omnipotence Omniscience Infiniteness Justice Truth Mercy and all the rest that are found in Scripture Which of these did not those Seditious Preachers acknowledge equally with the best of Christians The Word of God are the Books of holy Scripture received for Can nical in England B. They receive the World of God but 't is according to their own interpretation A. According to whose interpretation was it received by the Bishops and the rest of the Loyal Party but their own He puts for another Duty Obedience and Submission to God's Will Did any of them nay did any man living do any thing at any time against God's Will B. By God's Will I suppose he means there his revealed Will that is to say his Commandments which I am sure they did most horribly break both by their Preaching and otherwise A. As for their Actions there is no doubt but all men are guilty enough if God deal severely with them to be damned and for their Preaching they will say they thought it agreeable to God's revealed Will in the Scriptures if they thought if so it was not disobedience but error and how can any man prove they thought otherwise B. Hypocrisie hath this great prerogative above other sins that it cannot be accused A. Another Duty he sets down is to honour him in his House that is the Church in his Possessions in his Day in his Word and Sacraments B. They perform this Duty I think as well as any other Ministers I mean the Loyal Party and the Presbyterians have always had an equal care to have God's House free from prophanation to have Tithes duly paid to have the Sabbath day kept holy the Word preached and the Lord's Supper and Baptism duly administred But it is not the keeping of the Feasts and of the Fasts one of those Duties that belong to the Honour of God if it be the Presbyterians fail in that A. Why so they kept some Holidays and they had Feasts among themselves though not upon the same Days that the Church ordains but when they thought fit as when it pleased God to give the King any notable Victory and they govern'd themselves in this point by the holy Scriptures as they pretend to be and can prove they did not believe so B. Let us pass over all other Duties and come to that Duty which we owe to the King and consider whether the Doctrine taught by these Divines which adhered to the King be such in that point as may justifie the Presbyterians that incited the People to Rebellion for that 's the thing you call in question A. Concerning our Duty to our Rulers he hath these words An obedience we must pay either Active or Passive the Active in the case of all Lawful Commands that is when ever the Magistrate commands something which is not contrary to some command of God we are then bound to act according to that command of the Magistrate to do the thing he requires but when he enjoyns any thing contrary to what God hath commanded we are not then to pay him this Active obedience we may nay we must refuse thus to act yet here we must be very well assur'd that the thing is so contrary and not pretend Conscience for a cloak of stubbornness we are in that case to obey God rather than men But even this is a season for the Passive obedience we must patiently suffer what he inflicts on us for such refusal and not to secure our selves rise up against him B. What is there in this to give colour to the late Rebellion A. They will say they did it in obedience to God inasmuch as they did believe it was according to the Scripture out of which they will bring perhaps examples of David and his Adherents that resisted King Saul and of the Prophets afterwards that vehemently from time to time preached against the Idolatrous Kings of Israel and Judah Saul was their Lawful King and yet they paid him neither Active nor Passive obedience for they did put themselves into a posture of defence against him though David himself spared his person and so did the Presbyterians put into their Commission to their General that they should spare the King's Person Besides you cannot doubt but that they who in the Pulpit did animate the People to take Arms in defence of the then Parliament alledged Scripture that is the Word of God for it If it be lawful then for Subjects to resist the King when he commands any thing against the Scripture that is contrary to the command of God and to be Judge of the meaning of the Scripture it is impossible that the life of any King or the peace of any Christian Kingdom can be long secure It is this Doctrine that Divides a Kingdom within it self whatsoever the men be Loyal or Rebels that Write or Preach it publickly And thus you see that if those seditious Ministers be tried by this Doctrine they will come off well enough B. I see it and wonder at People that having never spoken with God Almighty nor knowing one more than another what he hath said when the Laws and the Preacher disagree should so keenly follow the Minister for the most part an ignorant though a ready tongu'd Scholar rather than the Laws that were made by the King with the consent of the Peers and the Commons of the Land A. Let us examine his words a little nearer first concerning Passive obedience When a Thief hath broken the Laws and according to the Law is therefore executed can any man understand that this suffering of his is an obedience to the Law Every Law is a Command to do or to forbear neither of these is fulfilled by suffering If any suffering can be called obedience it must be such as is voluntary for no voluntary action can be counted a submission to the Law He that means that his suffering should be taken for obedience must not onely not resist but also flie nor hide himself to avoid his punishment And who is there among them that discourses of Passive obedience when his life is in extreme danger that will voluntarily present himself to the Officers of Justice Do not we see that all men when they are led to Execution are both bound and guarded and would break loose if they could and get away such is their Passive obedience Christ saith The Scribes and Pharisees sate in Moses's chair all therefore whatsoever they bid you observe that observe and do Matth. 23.3 which is a doing an an Active obedience and yet the Scribes and Pharisees appear not by the Scriptures to have been such godly men as never to command any thing against the revealed will of God
Writings And from these the School-men that succeeded learnt the trick of imposing what they lift upon their Readers and declining the force of true Reason by verbal Forks I mean distinctions that signifie nothing but serve onely to astonish the multitude of ignorant men as for the understanding Readers they were so few that these new sublime Doctors cared not what they thought these School-men were to make good all the Articles of Faith which the Pope from time to time should command to be believed amongst which there were very many inconsistent with the Rights of Kings and other Civil Sovereigns as asserting to the Pope all Authority whatsoever they should declare to be necessary in ordine ad Spiritualia that is to say in order to Religion From the Universities also it was that Preachers proceeded and were poured out into City and Countrey to terrifie people into obedience to the Popes Canons and Commands which for fear of wakening Kings and Princes too much they durst not yet call them Laws From the Universities it was that the Philosophy of Aristotle was made an ingredient to Religion as serving for a Salve to a great many absurd Articles concerning the nature of Christ's Body and the state of Angels and Saints in Heaven which Articles they thought fit to have believed because they bring some of them profit and others reverence to the Clergy even to the meanest of them for when they shall have made the People believe that the meanest of them can make the Body of Christ who is there that will not both shew them reverence and be liberal to them or to the Church especially in the time of their sickness when they think they make and bring to them their Saviour B. But what advantage to them in these Impostures was the Doctrine of Aristotle A. They have made more use of his Obscurity than his Doctrine for none of the antient Philosophers Writing are comparable to those of Aristotle for their aptness to puzzle and intangle men with words and to breed disputation which must at last be ended in the determination of the Church of Rome And in the Doctrine of Aristotle they made use of many points as first the Doctrine of separated Essences B. What are separated Essences A Separated Beings B. Separated from what A. From every thing that is B. I cannot understand the Being of any thing which I understand not to be but what can they make of that A. Very much in questions concerning the nature of God and concerning the state of man's Soul after death in Heaven Hell and Purgatory by which you and every man knows how great obedience and how much Money they gain from the common People Whereas Aristotle holdeth the Soul of Man to be the first giver of Motion to the Body and consequently to it self They make use of that in the Doctrine of Free-will what and how they gain by that I will not say He holdeth forth that there be many things that come to pass in this World from no necessity of Causes but meer Contingency Casualty and Fortune B. Me-thinks in this they make God stand idle and to be a meer spectator in the Games of Fortune for what God is the cause of must needs come to pass and in my opinion nothing else But because there must be some ground for Justice of the eternal Torment of the Damned perhaps it is this That mens Wills and Propensions are not they think in the hands of God but of themselves And in this also I see something conducing to the Authority of the Church A. This is not much nor was Aristotle of such credit with them but that when his opinion was against theirs they could slight him whatsoever he says is impossible in Nature they can prove well enough to be possible from the Almighty power of God who can make Bodies to be in one and the self-same place and one Body to be in many places at the same time if the Doctrine of Transubstantiation require it though Aristotle deny it I like not the design of drawing Religion into an Art whereas it ought to be a Law And though not the same in all Countreys yet in every Countrey indisputable nor that they teach it as Arts ought to be taught by shewing first the meaning of their Terms and then deriving from them the Truth they would have us believe nor that their Terms are for the most part untelligible though to make it seem rather want of Learning in the Reader than want of sair dealing in themselves they are for the most part Latin and Greek words wried a little the point towards the Native Language of the several Countries where they are used But that which is most intoll●rable is That all Clerks are forced to make as if they believe them if they mean to have any Church-Preferment the Keys whereof are in the Popes hands and the common People whatsoever they believe of those s●bt●● Doctrines are never esteemed better Sons of the Church for their Learning There is but one way there to Salvation that is extraordinary Devotion and Liberality to the Church and readiness for the Churches sake if it be required to fight against their Natural and Lawful Sovereigns B. I see what use they make of Aristotles Logick Physick and Metaphysicks But I see not yet how his Politicks can serve their turn A. Nor I It has I think done them no good though it has done us here much hurt by accident for men grown weary at last of the Insolence of the Priests and examining the Truths of those Doctrines that were put upon them began to search the sense of the Scriptures as they are in the Learned Languages and consequently Studying Greek and Latin became acquainted with the Democratical Principles of Aristotle and Cicero and from the Love of their Eloquence fell in Love with the Politicks and more and more till it grew into the Rebellion we now talk of without any other advantage to the Roman Church but that it was awakening to us whom since we broke out of their Net in the time of Henry 8. they have continually endeavoured to recover B. What have they gotten by teaching of Aristotles Ethicks A. It is some advantage to them that neither the Morals of Aristotle nor of any other have done them any harm nor us any good Their Doctrine have caused a great deal of Dispute concerning Vertue and Vice but no knowledge of what they are nor any method of attaining Vertue nor of avoiding Vice The end of Moral Philosophy is to teach men of all sorts their Duty both to the publick and to one another The Estimate Virtue partly by a Mediocrity of the Passions of Men and partly by that that they are praised whereas it is not the much or little praise that makes an Action Virtuous but the Cause nor much or little blame that makes an Action Vitious but its being unconformable to the Laws in such men