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A68850 A mothers teares ouer hir seduced sonne: or A dissuasiue from idolatry penned in way of a dialogue, by occasion of a late letter from the sonne now at Doway, to his mother: which is also printed vvith the letter, and is fully set downe in the sonnes part, for the substance, though with some addition in forme.; Answere of a mother unto hir seduced sonnes letter. 1627 (1627) STC 24903.5; ESTC S114250 89,317 193

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doeth and thou maist bee sure of it A greater power then is this to cast away ones goods to thump ones selfe on the brest to crosse the forehead to lash one● sides till the blood follow to cast up ones prayers with beads in stead of counters to abstaine from egges on Friday and a chicke on Saturday and flesh for forty dayes together Nay I am not wide if I say it brings a greater power then that of your Popes keyes though it cannot open Purgatorie But for thy information which I specially intend I will plainly shew thee what power this is which trueth brings with it by two resemblances It is such a power as Iacob gave his Father Laban to search his tents for the Images which Rachell had stollen shee was desirous to keepe them whether to play with them or because they were hir Fathers I know not and Laban was desirous to haue them they were his gods therefore of great esteeme Search my tents saith Iacob there is your power I would give no way to keepe them upon any condition if I knew of them For Iacob knew not that Rachell had stollen them Gen. 31. 32. So then Rachell was too hard for them both The resemblance lyeth thus Trueth brings power with it to search the heart yea to sweepe it and cleanse it too And yet this crafty subtle Rachell keepes some of the filth behind the doore in a corner And this to humble man who if he knowes nothing by himselfe yet is he not thereby justified He hath to doe with him who is greater then the heart whose eyes are as Christall Selfe-puritie is a fancie it will deceive a man like a broaken tooth or a legg out of ioynt Behold if we say wee know it not doth not he that pondereth the heart consider it c Prov. 24. 12. Who can understand his errors cleanse thou me from secret sai●●s keepe backe thy servant c. Psal 19. Now marke how Hezechiah prayed The good Lord pardon every one that prepareth his heart to seeke God though hee bee not clensed according to the purification of the sanctuarie That man who is as desirous to cleanse his heart from Idolls as Iacob was to cleanse his tents and can say with Hezechiah Remember how I have walked before thee in trueth and with a perfect heart 2 King 20. that man may find comfort from Gods answering Hezechiahs prayer And the Lord hearkned to Hezechiah and healed the people 2 Chro. 30. 18. 19. I should now shew this power which trueth brings in a second resemblance but I cannot leave this scripture there being something else in it considerable and pat for our purpose Rachell had stollen hir Fathers gods no question but shee would keepe them and what meanes useth shee for that shee hides them under the furniture then sitts downe closse upon them This was a principall means first to wipe hir Fathers nose of them and then to keepe them above ground for till she rose Iacob could not burie them under the Oake we may sitly call this hir wilfulnesse But wilfulnesse though it bee a kind of a reason such as it is yet it hath nothing to defend it selfe we call it a madnesse rather how then did shee defend hir wilfull sitting so closse in hir Fathers presence and upon such pretious things For that shee pleades custome So now this Scripture hath afforded us two principall helps by which you maintaine Images at this day they are the very pillars which keepe them from falling to the ground Yee resolve to keepe them therefore you sit downe closse upon them This is a strong Argument this will is a tough knottie thing And yet that this wilfulnesse may not bee counted madnesse ye plead custome from ancient dayes let ancient dayes speake It is ordinary with you to say you hope your great Grandfather is in heaven yet he bowed before an Image It is hard to prove that because there were seven thousand who bowed not the knee before the Image of Baall But see here though they cannot use a more Herculean Argument then wilfulnesse yet if ye will aske for the old way and enquire of auncient dayes which I am sure would faile you here is a Scripture would stand you in stead for it drawes the Pedegree of Images from more ancient dayes then were my Fathers And we do grant your Church had a being long before Luther and that your strange gods are as ancient as the oake beyond Sechem yet that you may not thence conclude their lawfulnesse they lay buried there and certainly there is no true Iacob but thinks them fittest under ground But if there be any one who will say to the dead stocke stand up he must uphold them by wilfulnes or by pleading custome or both Here I have beene out of my way yet not from my purpose I come to another resemblance wherby that power which trueth brings with it will appeare also It is such a power which Iosuah had to carry all before him yet the men of Gibeon were too wilie for him yet the Iebusite dwelt in the Land The one made their peace by working wilily The other stood to it having first had the Cittie in a kind of ancient possession which is 12. points in the law and so rooted and earthed himselfe in the Land as you see Ivie doth into a wall I remember one compare the body of sinne unto Ivie in a wall the Ivie doth so claspe the wall as that it cannot be taken forth till the wall be pluck't downe nor can that sinne bee purged till the building bee dissolved The Iebusite held out till Davids time But marke the resemblance goes further The first were hewers of wood and drawers of water to all the Congregations Anger hatred feare c. All things worke for the good of them that fear him they who are others masters are Israels servants The other vvere as goades in Israels sides and as thornes in his eyes so is the crucified body of sinne unto the true Israell witnesse a true Israelite who shall deliver me from the body of this death SONNE Yea but if trueth bring but such a power with it how is it there is such fowle practise MOTHER The reason is plaine all men have not trueth nay sew have it Truth is a Iewell it must be bought it may not bee sould It must be bought at any rate rather part with all then misse of it It must bee sould at no rate the world and the glorie of it cannot ballance it So then it being hardly bought and hardly kept no marvaile that all men haue not trueth SONNE Yet I cannot see how trueth and such sowle practise may stand together any more then light by darknesse God with Beliall MOTHER They doe not agree together yet may they stand together yet may they be together how As the Israelite and Iebusite in one Land as the wheat and the tares stand in one field Now Child that
whose office is to stand betweene the living and the dead Hee thou prayest unto is a Spirit thou must worship him in spirit and in truth Againe doth he put no confidence in the flesh What meanes then his knowing of Christ after the flesh his will worship all his carnall services Doth he renounce his owne righteousnes is it as filthy raggs What meanes then his meritts his satisfaction his worke of supererrogation Doth he forgetting those things which are behind reaching forth unto those things which are before presse toward the marke that he may apprehend that for which hee was apprehended of Christ Iesus What meaneth then his fancy of perfection in this life This man cannot frame to pronunce Christ aright yet scales are before his eyes let him looke to it It will prove as deadly as Sibboleth to the Ephramite then they tooke him slew him at the passage of Iordan Iud. 12. I haue beene long about this yet I know no parent will blame me The Mother hath beene looking into hir Childs Eye and she feares it will be lost now you know the Eye is to this little body as the Sunne to the great the light of the body is the eye if that be darke the body lives in a continued night then if there be any remedie the Mother bestirres hir selfe how much more then if the inward eye bee in danger for when that is darke how great is that darkenesse A man knowes not where hee shall fall O the Mother would fame have that cleare because the loue of an outward sense may be supplied by the strength of another but if the light within a man bee darknesse what can recompence that losse I cannot then leave my Childs eye thus the counsaile is behind so is the eye salue thou shalt find them both if of what hath beene said thou shalt make this use Trust not my sweete Child thine owne eye it will present unto thee shaddowes for substances that is one grosse mistake for what is the shaddow to the substance no more then is the Chaffe to the Wheate It will tell thee it sees clearly when it is not onely dim and darke but quite put out that is another and can there be a greater Goe then my deare Child in the sense of this thy blindnesse for thou art blind also there is no question of it to him that is the Light the effect of whose comming is that they which see not to wit in the conscience of their owne blindnesse might see and that they which see might be made blind Ioh. 9. Go I say unto him it is not my counsell onely and say Son of David have mercie upon me that I may receive my sight and bee instant with him give him no rest till he make darkenesse light before thee and crooked things straight Till he bid the Prisoners come forth and say to the blind receive sight Isai 42. 16. Then and not till then shall thine eyes bee cleared then and not till then shall thy tongue bee loosed then not till then shalt thou frame to pronounce Christ right SONNE God knowes before whome I am our day to giue an accompt of my duty towards you that there passeth not a day or night either when you and yours take your rest wherein there is not intercession made for you MOTHER And dost thou begge vs of the Lord my sweete child Now the Lord unfold thy vnderstanding he cure thy zeale he adde knowledge to it he can doe it But all this while thou hast not fulfilled my ioy I reioyced greatly that I found of my children walkeing in the truth as we haue receiued a commandement of the Father they are Iohns words to to the elect Lady v. 4. Heare what he w●●ts to Gaius I reioyced greatly when the brethren came and testified of the Trueth that is in thee even as thou walkest in the Trueth I haue no greater ioy then to heare that my children walke in the truth Beloued thou doest faithfully whatsoever thou doest to the brethren to strangers I restraine this now to the matter in hand prayer though whatsoever a man doth that he doth it faithfully Crownes the worker the worke thou doest pray for thy Mother and her children doe it faithfully my deare child Faithfully in respect of those things that must be requested Faithfully in respect of that heart by which this Sacrifice must be presented Faithfully in respect of him to whom only it must bee directed Psal 65. 2. Faithfully in respect of that mediation through whom only it must bee accepted So pray on and begge vs of the Lord. Behold he prayeth Acts 9. 11 It is the spirits testimony of Paul after hee had left Gamaliels feete and his owne righteousnes and had attained to the knowledge of Christ and to the power of his Resurrection then behold he prayeth it yeldes a notable consideration no question Saul had prayed long and often while he satt at Gamaliels feete yet as if his prayers then had ben rather an houling then praying the spirit giues this testimony of him after the light had shined unto him behold he prayeth then and not till then Pray thus and pray on so begging vs of the Lord. I should haue no greater Ioy then to heare that my child walks in truth Beloved child thou doest faithfully whatsoever thou doest to thy Mother and her children Oh what joy were here doe this and thou fulfillest my joy and thy owne for else thy labour of loue will be lost thy watching lost thy prayers lost thy selfe lost all lost looke to thy selfe then it is Iohns caveat that thou loose not the things that thou hast wrought but that thou receiuest a full reward In the meane time the Mother will pray for the child too that his loue may abound yet more and more how In knowledge and in all iudgement Philip. 1. 9. then shall we loue both in the flesh in the Lord Phil. 16. SONNE What more to doe in this my state I know not when my Mother is misled from the way of truth without knowledge and I must obey her but in the Lord in this thing then I must be excused and she must be plainely told that it stands not with the duty of a sonne to yeeld the least to so uniust demaunds of a Mother yet that she may know how duetifull a Sonne shee hath and how couragious for the witnessing of that which hee professeth were it with his owne blood Oh! that the commands were of the same nature with hers in the Maccabees who did incourage her children to suffer euen to the death surely I should be as ready to obey as shee to command but alas my Mothers commaunds are unreasonable nay unnaturall tending to the forsaking my Religion Gods Church his trueth himselfe MOTHER And is it so my Son an unreasonable request indeed and unnaturall O but hearken my Child and if it bee so let thine owne Mother bee hated O
the joyes of this Iacob or number the fourth part of the comforts of this Israell The sure mercies of David are his The word of God his for his instruction The righteousnesse of God his for his justification Gods spirit his for his sanctification Gods power his for his protection Gods glory his for his happinesse All things are his he is Christs and Christ is Gods 1 Cor. 3. 23. Let my strength be as this mans strength and my last end shall be like his Oh but why doth Balaam wish and sit still the while Iudge with thy selfe whether such comforts can be drawne with ease This is a worke not an easie one Why is there a price in the hand of a foole and he hath no heart unto it Prov. 17. 16. Digg man digg deepe deeper yet to it againe thou must through all these sandy bottomes Why judge within your selfe whether any thing but onely the rocke the rocke onely can hold a building thus stedfast that the world nay the gates of hell cannot prevaile against it Oh to it againe there must be a low foundation on which so glorious a building must be rooted built and stablished that must stand like mount Sion fast for evermore Then yet deeper and faint not forasmuch as you know your labour is not in vaine in the Lord. Deare Child I as an affectionate Mother to my owne bowells by my sorrowes in thy first birth by those since wherewith I travell with thee till Christ be formed in thee by that solemne vow thou mad'st to God in Baptisme by that strong bond of nature deare name of a Mother I doe desire thee nay she that might command doth beseech thee if there be any consolation in Christ if any comfort in love if any fellowship of the spirit if any bowells of mercies to consider by what hath beene said and the Lord make it profitable whether my requests that thou wouldest returne bee unreasonable or unnaturall whether my reasons for it are any way dangerous or hazardous or rather whether the one be not pious the other safe certaine directing thee unto that Church which is guided by a certaine course it may float it cannot sinke setting thee upon a sure foundation it may shake it cannot fall no more then the corner-stone which cannot be removed Intreating thee to put away those lyes which are in thy right hand all those Idolls which cannot helpe all those sparkes with which you may compasse your selfe and yet lie downe in sorrow Isai 50. 11. perswading thee to put away all those vanities they are too long to name which weighed in the ballance will bee found too light and also to digg to the Rocke which cannot faile Oh my Child consider It is not for any of your good workes that you are condemned yet I know thou wilt consider that there are many circumstances belonging to every action from which the worke ever receives its true estimat Thou may'st heare somewhat more of this anon because thou doest not walke uprightly according to the truth and purity of the Gospell I would drive this naile to the head now consider whether your rocke be as our rocke even our enemies being iudges what will become of their gods their rocke in which they trusted let them rise up and helpe you and be your protection Deut. 31. ver 31. 37. c. But see my child this rocke is hee which I have pointed out unto thee there is none with him onely Christ onely Christ Can here be hazard my Child can here be danger canst thou thirst at the fountaine canst thou sinke upon the rocke In thine owne righteousnesse thou mai'st the intercessions of Saints and Angells may deceive thee Baall may be busied peradventure he may be sleeping Abraham may be ignorant of thee and Israell may not acknowledge thee I say but it may be though the Scripture puts it out of all question for albeit the Saints in heaven doe in generall remember their fellowes whose warfare is not yet accomplished and so performe that never failing act of charity to pray for them as they farre divided on earth doe one for another yet particularly they know not our hearts nor the desires nor sighs nor groanes of our hearts for thou only saith Salomon knowest the hearts of the Children of men 2 Chro. 6. 30. thou only therfor not Abraham not Israel Yet I say but that it may be that thou maist see plainly how at the best here is a venture here ●s a hazard but he that keepeth Israell neither slumbreth nor sleepeth and this is hee which I point out unto thee there can be no hazard here this rocke is a mighty redeemer hee will sustaine thee alone hee must have no helper whom wilt thou joyne vvith him whose name is everlasting I tell thee this for the summ of all there is nothing though never so lovely in thine eyes which can mak thee the righteousnes of God but that which was made sinne for thee Tell me then were any of these things crucified for thee how long shall vaine thoughts which seperate from God lodge within thee returne then my Sonne returne or in case thou doest halt betweene two opinions surely the Lord the jealous God who will not give his honour to another nor suffer Dagon to stand by him will have this controversie against thee and what Saint or Angell shall plead for thee thou hast committed two great evills thou hast forsaken the fountaine of living waters hewed thy selfe out Cisterns broken Cisternes that can hold no water Return then my Sonne returne for why shouldest thou be as a Cake halfe baked neither hott ●or cold almost a Christian Thou must ●●ke straight steppse and cast off that which kings on so fast lest that which is halting be turned out of the way The Lord calls for thy heart give it him my Sonne and follow him wholly or else thou shalt nev●r with Caleb and Ioshuah come into that good Land O● my bowells doe yerne upon my Sonne the Harlot shall rather have him then I will have him divided Come away from hir Son come away SONNE Yee have wolues amongst you who pray not for you but prey upon you Besids the liues of your Ministers and professours are very scandalous you have but the carcasse of the Ministry amongst you and you do not cover it with a seemely cloath Doe not the Ministers some of them like stage players only an● barely act talke and practise nothing They will tell you of Christs passion his hunger his thrist so of the Apostles too But which of your Ministers or Laity will follow his Saviour in those his passions Who amongst you doe allow of fastings or watching or voluntary Poverty c. Now looke upon ours their practise will preach you a Sermon they are rather doers then talkers They fast hard pray much suffer continually By this their practise you may knowe their doctrine there is your Sermon Now I
Passeover the very ingredients which make up our austere penance the soules medicine MOTHER I might say of this medicine as they of the pottage Death is in the pott wee cannot eate of it But I leave the figure and speake plainely wee haue no such custome nor the Churches of God It is a truth A man ought to be a martyr in affection Hee must deny himselfe and take up his crosse daily And yet he must take his life goods and libertie from Gods hand as Talents intrusted to him to use to improue Nor must hee part with them till they stand in competition with the puritie of the Gospell and now that they doe he hath his warrant what to doe and his wo too if he doth it not and to the Saints the choyce is easie neither are their liues deare unto them it is necessary say they the trueth of Christ constrayning them that wee goe not that we should liue Wee shall loose our goods No matter wee will take it ioyefully knowing we have in heaven an induring substance Heb. 10. 34. we shall loose our libertie No matter the word of God is not bound Christ hath set us free we are free indeed Life is sweete the other life is sweeter But Death is bitter the second death is more bitter Come prison come death all is advantage The choyce is made but still they have their warrant Esau hath a sterne looke the true Israel will goe to meet him warrantably preparedly they looke to haue kisses from him The Crosse is a heavie thing the Head fainted under it much more the member therefore they will forecast the Crosse at all times they will cast it in their way at no time It shall meete the Saints as it did Simon of Cyren and as the Lyon mett Sampson in their way They will not thrust themselves into danger as they will not cowardly avoid it They will pray to be delivered from the mouth of the Lion but if the Beast will bend them or breake them their breaking hath and shall be like the breaking of a box of pretious oyntment it shall fill the whole house with a sweet perfume And the Beast shall bee forced in spite of mallice to yeeld them honey which proves so sweete that they shall take pleasure in infirmitie in reproches in necessities in persecutions in distresses for Christ his sake whose power is so upon them that when they are weake then are they strong How sweet shall the waters bee when the Lord hath healed them What pleasant fruit shall grow from a bitter root when the Lord hath watered it or hath changed his nature Tribulation shall worke patience patience experience experience hope and hope maketh not ashamed see what kisses are here SONNE You have said something to our sufferings in geuer all what say you to the particulars first to our austere penance wee are content to whip our selves because Christ was whipped by the Iewes and we thinke we haue ground for it if not a direct precept yea what clearing of your selues there is ground for our auricular confession yea what indignation yea what revenge 2 Cor. 7. there is ground for our pennance There cannot be a greater token of sorrow to repentance then to take revenge of our body for the sinne of our soules Againe we haue patterne for it too The Publican smote upon his breast Luke 18. MOTHER Trueth is an excellent thing if we haue it not yet we would haue some thing like it Your letter doth not mention Auricular confession therefore I will but touch upon it because it goes before Penance If you will take the Apostles clearing for Confession let Ezra Nehemiah and Daniell expound it in their three excellent chapters the 9 of their books where you haue the forme of clearing your Confession where you must marke by the way that it was accompanied with astonishment with trembling For that indignation and revenge the Apostle speaks off it cannot be meant of whipping your selues For what is a little smart of the body a yery flea biting to make satisfaction for sinne when as the sinne of the body cannot satisfie for the sinne of the soule For the Publicane smiting his breast It is a wonder to me you dare come so neere that Scripture because the Pharesi● is hard by and meete● you at every turne staring you in the face It is true the Publican smot his breast hee lookt upon the ground too Christ doth not deliver a generall rule but tels me and thee the inseparable marke of a true penitent shame or loathing He lookt on the ground acknowledging that mercy kept him from being beneath for his iniquity he smott his breast so pleading with his heart the mother of sinne Take it tohetger and let indignation and revenge be put to it too the Prophet Ezech. comprehends all and expound● it fully They shall loath themselves for the evills which they have committed Cap. 6. ver 9. They shall be on the mountaines like Doves of the valleys all of them mourning every one for his iniquity so cap. 7. ver 16. They shall remember their wayes and be ashamed so cap 16. ver 61. And ye shall loath your selves in your owne sight so cap 20. ver 43. Whether this were not a smart within the skinne let the indifferent Reader judge So then I conclude against you wee haue no such custome nor the Churches of God We have no precept for it rather against it rent your hearts and not your garmens This shadow hath devoured the substance we have no patterne for Baalls Priests must not be our examples we follow Paul for he followed Christ Paul received from the Iewes forty stripes save one we read not that he gave himselfe one Your heretickes you will have it so were whipt by Boner as long as his breath would hold wee find not that they g●ve themselves one stripe A man may bee too unmannerly bold with his bodie Certainly the Saints have a reverent esteeme of it It is the Cabinet of a rich Iewell nor is that all it is the temple of the Holy Ghost A temple made with hands wee know is of much esteeme The temple of the Holy Ghost much more I find it used by the Apostle as a maine Argument against uncleannesse It may serve also as a buckler to keepe off the blowes Are the bodies of the Saints the temples of the holy Ghost they dare not whip them nor scorch them nor pine them these are not the markes of the Lord Iesus who required them at their hands They know that the sufferings of Christ must abound in them if they look to have the consolations abound through Christ They know that they must heare about in their bodies the dying of the Lord Iesus that the life of Iesus may bee made manifest in their bodies knowing well that there is a false penance and a counterfeite Martyrdome my sweete Child they never vvere nor never will bee their owne