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A81350 An apologie for the Reformed churches wherein is shew'd the necessitie of their separation from the Church of Rome: against those who accuse them of making a schisme in Christendome. By John Daille pastor of the Reformed Church at Paris. Translated out of French. And a preface added; containing the judgement of an university-man, concerning Mr. Knot's last book against Mr. Chillingworth. Daillé, Jean, 1594-1670.; Smith, Thomas, 1623 or 4-1661. 1653 (1653) Wing D113; Thomason E1471_4; ESTC R208710 101,153 145

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us God forbid they should We believe and preach That our Ministers are men and mere creatures so that no man can take the kneeling which is before them who give imposition of hands for an adoration addressed to them all the profession of our Churches and nature of the things themselves directly contradicting it In like manner the Church of England believeth and teacheth publickly That the Eucharist is bread in substance and that to adore it were grievously to offend God So that the kneeling which is in their communion cannot be taken for an adoration of ought else but Jesus Christ who is in heaven and not of bread which is upon the earth Did the Church of Rome believe and likewise teach that the Eucharist were bread in substance and not a subject fit to be adored we think that then we might bow the knee in her Communion without wounding our consciences But while she teacheth that which she now believeth while she exacteth of us this kneeling as a true adoration of the Sacrament who is so blind as not to see that we cannot obey her without making our selves according to the judgement of our own consciences guilty of adoreing a meer creature since we believe the Sacrament so to be CHAP. XIII That he who believeth the Eucharist to be bread in substance cannot give it the reverence which is practised in the Church of Rome withoul evident falshood hypocrisie and perfidiousnesse Object FOr to say Though the intention of the Church of Rome be that we should addresse this kneeling and adoration whereof that is the mark to the Sacrament there present That we may neverthelesse use it otherwise and addresse it to J. Christ sitting in heaven at the right hand of His Father lifting up our hearts raising our affections and thoughts to Him and by this means kneel with our Adversaries without adoring as they do that which we believe to be but a creature Answ This is a false and dangerous excuse of the flesh which might it take place would open a large and dangerous gate to impietie and hypocrisie and ruine the foundations of all religion And for the better understanding of it I must begin with it a little higher God being the Creatour and Redeemer of whole man that is to say both of his soul and of his bodie would have him which is but reasonable serve Him entirely using both the one and the other of these two parts to that end Glorifie God in your body and in your spirit both which are Gods saith the Apostle 1 Cor. vi 20. And as in offices which concern our neighbours he commandeth us sincerity willing us to love them inwardly and to edifie and help them outwardly so doth He command that in piety which regardeth Himself we should joyntly make use of our hearts and bodies And as He abominates that man who loving his neighbour in his heart should abuse him with his tongue or hurt him with his hand or contrariwise should give him an almes with his hand and hate him in his heart So will He not approve of that man who pretends to reverence Him in the secret of his soul and yet with his tongue blasphemeth His name nor him who blessing Him with his mouth shall curse Him with his heart 'T will stand one man in no stead to plead for himself That his soul did his duty but the bodie failed of his nor another to excuse the defaults of the soul by the service of the body So that in effect these excuses will be but a meer mockery The union of the mind and the body being so neare that when the mind is disposed as it should the body cannot but perform its devoir and he that abusing God or his neighbour with his tongue would have us believe that notwithstanding all that he loveth them sincerely in his heart is a bold lyar deserving to be punished not onely for his blasphemy or wrong but likewise for his impudence According to these undoubted Maximes we are bound not onely to receive in our hearts the truths which God hath revealed in Religion but likewise outwardly to professe them And we are all bound not onely not to disbelieve with our hearts the errours and impieties which are contrary to the truth of God but likewise not to confesse them outwardly in any kind For if it be enough to retain in the heart the knowledge and love of truth and it be permitted to deny it outwardly sometimes S. Peter had not fell in denying his Master for no man can doubt but that his heart within knew well enough what his tongue disavowed without And so to denie our Lord before men would be no sinne and confession with the mouth would be of no use which all are things evidently false For that action of S. Peter is grievously blamed in the Gospel and his tears if we had no other proof shew us sufficiently that he thought he did extremely offend God And our Lord Matth. x. 33. protesteth expressely that He will denie him before His Father in heaven that is to say that at the great day of judgement He will not own him for His nor put him in the number of His blessed children who will deny him before men And lastly S. Paul Rom. x. 9 10. teacheth us That with the heart men believe unto righteousnesse and with the tongue they make confession unto salvation and to be saved he doth not onely require That you should believe the Lord in your heart but likewise that you should confesse him with your mouth The same reasons do necessarily induce us to believe That it is not enough to banish from our hearts the belief of impietie and such errours as are contrary to the foundations of true Religion unlesse we also banish the confession of them from our mouthes For to confesse an errour which overthroweth the fundamentalls of Religion is clearly to deny our R●ligion Since then we are forbidden under pain of an eternall curse to confesse with our mouth the errours which we detest with our hearts T is cleare that if we believe the adoration of the Host of the Church of Rome to be an errour contrary to the foundations of piety as we do indeed That we cannot confesse it without violating the commandment of J. Christ and pulling upon our souls eternall ruine and damnation For where is the Christian who firmly believing that the Sacrament is a creature and being asked if he should give it the adoration of latria will not dread to answer Yes and whose conscience will not feel a thousand remorses if any passion cause his tongue to say so And how can we say that the Sacrament is to be adored or confesse it more clearly then by prostrating our selves before the Host of the Church of Rome and giving it in the presence of men the same outward veneration which is the mark and substance of that which we give to Him Object But you 'l perhaps deny That with
not to discern the danger We who follow their steps and have seen the whole world in a conspiracy for to reduce them with all possible force and artifice from this separation and to reunite us to Rome One must needs think then that both our Ancestours and We were carried on to this motion so apparently contrary to our own good and welfare by some very strong reason that forced us as it were against our wills to sleight what ever is naturally desirable and in stead of enjoying that to suffer what we are wont to dread which certainly can be no lesse then a strange fantasticalnesse and a silly opinionative humour which should make us take a delight in running counter to others as some without any appearance of reason are pleased to imagine I heartily wish it were in our power to accommodate our selves in this particular with a good conscience to the customes and Services of our Countreymen whose friendship We know very well how much we ought to value and how highly to prize the good favour of those Princes whom God hath set over us especially rather then to displease them needlesly in a matter of such high importance and which they affect with so much passion according to the great and singular devotion which they bear towards those things that they esteem divine We behold likewise and grieve to behold the disorders that this diversitie in Christianitie breeds and the extreme scandal that it gives to Infidels and such as are weak in faith And what ever others say We are not thanks be to God such enemies to His glory and the salvation of mankind as not be as sensible of these dolefull emergencies as of ought that most concerns our temporall good and private interests CHAP. V. Reasons of our Separation from Rome founded upon the diversitie of our Beliefs Object BUt you 'l say If it be thus how can you possibly passe over these considerations your selves which you pretend to think so important why do you not follow them whither they would lead you Seeing you desire the favour of Princes the love of your Countreymen a peaceable and settled condition seeing you would gladly promote the glory of God and the edification of men and do really abhorre the scandal of this disunion why are ye not again reconciled to the Romane Church she opens her arms wide unto you and is not so stiff and rigorous as you seem to apprehend her but for to gain you is willing to yield to some Accommodation and in favour of you to mitigate some of those things that offend you most What I pray is there so strange in her doctrine or in her service that should cause you to forsake her communion to avoid the ancient Churches and Religion of our Fathers to renounce the ordinary publick assemblies of Christian people to sever from all the rest of the world and to suffer all sorts of extremities Our Church adores the same JESVS CHRIST whom you professe to be the Prince and Authour of your Religion She confesseth the unity of His person and the veritie of His two natures She believes Him to be God eternal of the same substance with the Father and with the Holy Ghost and likewise man made in time of the flesh of the blessed Virgin like to us in all things sinne onely excepted truly Immanuel as the ancient Prophesies foretold She acknowledges the truth benefit and necessity of his sufferings and preacheth even as you That His bloud expiated the crimes of mankind That the freedome and salvation of the world is the fruit of His death She exalteth His glory and believes That He sits at the right hand of God in heaven and That He shall come in the last day to judge the world and she hopes after the renovation of this world for a blessed immortality through his grace in one to come She gives to her children baptisme which Christ did institute and refreshes them with His Eucharist and recommends to them piety toward Him and charity toward men She reverenceth the Gospels and the Epistles of the Apostles as books divinely inspired And if there be any other Article in the discipline of our Lord she receiveth and embraceth it as well as you and curseth the names and memory of those who have gone about to overthrow or shake them whether in former or latter ages Ans The truth is We neither can nor will denie that the Church of Rome doth at this day believe all these holy truths We thank our gracious Lord that she hath preserved them through so many ages midst so many disorders But we would to God That she had been as carefull of not adding as of not diminishing That she had foisted in nothing of her own but permitted us to content our selves with that which sufficed the Primitive Christians to bring them to salvation For had she kept within those bounds neither our Fathers nor We had ever had any cause of withdrawing from her Communion We had then sworn to her opinions and performed her service without any scruple finding abundantly in this brief but full and admirably complete rule of wisdome enough to replenish our faith and season our manners understandings and wills with all perfections necessary for attaining to that Soveraigne Happinesse which both you and We naturally desire But who knows not That to the aforesaid divine Articles clearly expressed in the Holy Scriptures authentically preach'd and founded by the Apostles uniformly believed and confessed by Christians of all places and ages Rome hath added divers others which she presseth equally with them forcing all those of her communion to receive them with the same faith as they do those aforesaid thundring out horrible anathemaes against all them that doubt of them and using for the ruine of such all the power and credit that she hath whether in the Church or in the world For besides J. Christ whom she acknowledgeth with us to be the Mediatour of mankind the High-Priest and chief Soveraigne of the Church she would have us hold the Saints departed to be our Mediatours and her Priests our Sacrificers and her Pope to be the Head and Husband of the Church Besides the sacrifice of the Crosse she forceth upon us that of the Altar Besides the bloud of Christ she commands us to expect our cleansing from the sufferings of Martyrs and from the vertue of a certain fire which she hath kindled under ground Besides the water of Baptisme and the refection of the Eucharist she presseth us to receive unction with oyles and the mysteries of her private Confessions Besides the Great God whom she adores and prayes to as we do she commandeth us to adore the holy Sacrament to invocate Angels and beatified Spirits Besides that service of the Gospel wherein she agreeth with us she imposeth upon us divers ceremonies abstaining from meats distinction of times veneration of images Besides the H. Scriptures which are divinely inspired which she confesseth with
who did not likewise hold the conclusion viz. that the soul is mortall With what face dare you venture to assert it since Tertullian and many other Authors of very great esteem were of that opinion and S. Augustine did rather approve it then condemn it since I say they did openly believe the first of these positions and expresly deny the second So S. Hilary according to the true consequences of that opinion which he held concerning the impassible nature of Christs body seems to me to have been obliged to denie the truth and realitie of our redemption And yet who dare impute so grievous an impietie to such a Saint I should never have done should I resolve to set down here all the examples that may be alledged to this purpose These two suffice to shew that whoever maintains an ill opinion is not therefore to be held guilty of the consequences of it S●ppose then it were true as it is not That from the belief of the Lutherans concerning the Eucharist it would follow That we must adore the Sacrament Since they own not this consequence nay on the contrary strongly reject it It would be an extreme injustice to ascribe it to them And as it would have been a want of charity in the primitive Christians to have avoided the Communion of Tertullian or S. Hilary upon protence that from their opinions touching the originall of the soul of man and the nature of the body of Christ there followed many propositions which are impious and contrary to our faith since they rejected and abhorred them so would it be in my mind a great oversight now to separate from the Lutherans upon this pretended consequence from their opinion concerning the holy Sacrament if it could be deduced thence as it cannot Since they themselves protest that they will not acknowledge it But as for them of Rome 't is quite otherwise For the adoration of the Eucharist is a consequence of their doctrine concerning this point both de jure and de facto that is it plainly follows from it and they expresly professe and practise it 1. De jure it follows from it For if the subject which we call the Sacrament of the Eucharist be in its substance not bread as we believe but the body of Christ as they hold 't is evident that men both may and ought to adore it seeing that the body of Christ is a subject adorable And then it follows from it 2. De facto they practise it For who knows not that there is not any one Article in all the Romane religion which is professed more publickly pressed more severely exercised more devoutly then this of adoring the Host Since then they hold this article both de jure according to the plain consequences of their belief in the point of the Eucharist and de facto in their confessions and practises and That the Lutherans on the contrary hold them not neither in one manner nor the other neither in thesi nor hypothesi 'T is cleare That our bearing with the latter without separating from them for the diversitie that is between them and us about the point of the Eucharist doth no way inferre that we should do as much with the former CHAP. X. That the dignitie and excellency of the Eucharist doth not hinder it from being a grievous and deadly offense to adore it if it be bread in substance as we believe Object BUt you 'l say That you esteem it a rude comparison to liken the adoration which the Church of Rome gives the Eucharist to the services that the profane Pagans or debauched Israelites gave to mere creatures For they adored idols whereas the Eucharist is a divine Sacrament So that it seems an abuse of the Scripture to scare us with those threats and curses that it denounceth against such kind of people seeing the object which they served was so different from that which Rome will have us to adore We confesse we perform this action but 't is to one of the Institutions of our Master and for you to equall that and compare it with an idol 'T is very unbeseeming Answ Thanks be to God we have a clean other opinion of the Eucharist We hold it as it is indeed a very holy Sacrament of the body and bloud of our Lord to be one of the most precious instruments of his grace which being lawfully and rightly celebrated communicateth to us all the treasures of heaven the flesh and bloud of Christ the pardon of our sinnes the peace of our consciences the sanctification of our souls and the right to a blessed immortalitie Farre be it from us to give it the profane and infamous name of an idol We will not say that it is simply and onely bread and if any of us do chance to speak so in saying that 't is bread he means in regard of the substance of the thing not in regard of its vertue or dignity in regard of which we believe that it is quite another thing from bread We should take the word in the same sense that Gregory Nyssen doth on the like subject who speaking of the water in Baptisme Orat. in Bapt. Christ p. 803. tom 2. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 saith That it is nothing else but water he means in its nature For in the grace 't is another thing beside water and both the Scriptures teach it to be so and all Christians believe it and this holy Doctour particularly witnesseth it in divers places Id. ibid. p. 801. c. 4. orat Catech. c. 33. We therefore do willingly give to the Sacrament all those advantages and respects that justly belong to it and not to any idol But if this be a creature as we believe it to be the excellence and dignitie thereof as great as you set it forth will not at all excuse their crime who adore it For the Lord forbids us to adore not base or vain things onely as onions and the Cats of the Egyptians and the idols of the Pagans which have not any subsistence in nature or any where else except in their false imaginations but he forbids us generally and absolutely to adore any creature what ever it be whether it creep upon the ground or shine in heaven whether it swim in the water or flie in the aire animate or inanimate visible or invisible corporeall or spiritual profane or sacred comprehending under the same condemnation all those who worship any creature what ever it be as guilty of the same crime and subject to the same punishment And de facto the thing is very evident for this adoration which we give to God being an acknowledgement of his Soveraignty a duty like to the love which a woman oweth to her lawfull husband Who doth not perceive that it is a manifest crime to give it to any other but to him that the differences of the subjects to which men give it are no way considerable in this particular seeing though they