Selected quad for the lemma: truth_n
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A19242
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The abatement of popish braggs, pretending Scripture to be theirs. Retorted by the hand of Alexander Cooke
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Cooke, Alexander, 1564-1632.
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1625
(1625)
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STC 5658; ESTC S108620
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41,426
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69
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later Bellarmine Both of them alledge the selfe same Fathers Greek and Latine for the proofe of their seuerall opinions which argues they conceiued differently of the Fathers meaning In like manner it is questioned betweene vs and you Whether the words of Saine Peter 1 Epist 3. 19. are to be vnderstood of Christs discension into hell in soule after his death And your Rhemists would perswade vs That S. Austine found himselfe sure that so much was plainly proued therby yet Bellarmine confesseth Non vult Aug. hâ—â—c locuâ—â— ad Inferâ—s pertinerâ— That S. Austin did not thinke Christs discension into hell was proued thereby A great question it is euen amongst your selues Whether the words of Christ Ioh. Chap. 6. be to be vnderstood properly of the Sacâ—ament or no Caietan Iansenius Hessels Tapperus and some others hold negatiuely Roffensis Bell. Maldonate c. hold affirmatiuely Now Caietan proues his Negatiue ijs dem modis quibus Roffensis stabiliuit contrarium sententiam authoritate sanctorum pracipue B. Aug. By the same Arguments that Roffensis proued his affirmatiue euen by the testimony of the Fathers especially of S. Austin as Tapperus witnesseth In King Henry the Eighth dayes there was a great controuersie among your selues Vtrum ducere relictam 〈◊〉 mortui sine liberis it a sit de iure diuine naturali prohibituÌ„ vt nullus poâ—tiâ—ex super huiâ—snoodi mâ—trimonij contract is sine contrahenâ—is dispensare posset And the most famous Vniuersities in France and Italy grounding themselues vpon the Scriptures and Fathers were of opinion That marrying of the brothers wife was so forbidden that no dispensation could make it lawfull And to that purpose some learned man made a booke Now the Fathers whereon the Vniuersities and the Author of the booke rested were Origen Chrysostome Basil Hierom Augustin Greg. c. Yet Bellarmine and the Author of the booke intituled Apologia Tumultuaria c. alledge the same Fathers to the contrary I did not thinke the Fathers words had beene so subiect to different constructions But I must put off the further dispute about the Fathers till our next meeting which shal be God willing erre long while God be with you onely remember I pray you that which is written 1. Tim. 6. 3. 4. and 5. verses If any man teach otherwise and consenteth not to the wholesome words of our Lord Iesus Christ and to the doctrine which is according to godlinesse He is puft vp and knoweth nothing but doteth about questions and strife of wordes whereof commeth enuie strife railings euil surmisings Froward disputations of men of corrupt mindes and destitute of the truth which thinke that gaine is godlines from such separate thy selfe FINIS The Errata pag 5. lin 8. for with read about p. 6. l. 19. for by read the case p. 9. l. 17. threaten for threape p. 10. l. 6. our for your in marg staditas for studites l. 17. we for yee p. 15. lm 9. you say truely for you say not truely ibid. 〈…〉 l. 31. our for your p. 17 l 10 readâ— not what wee can doe p. 20. l. 14. that read the. pa. 21 l. 25. I will vse read I will not vse p. 22. l. 3. yet the read yet that the. ibid. fit it read fiâ—ten p. 23. l. 14. bold read bald ibid. l. 28. effectum read effectum p. 25. l. 25. a for the. p. 28. l. 22. for read of p. 34. marg Malliensibus read Masâ—il p. 35. l. 2. was the read was in the. p. 36. lin 22. eauden read euden p. 39. l. 1. Dorantes read Durantus p. 42. l. 6. offred read offereth a 2. Cor. 11. 20 b Esay 9. 16. c Ieâ— â—0 6â— d 2. Pat. 2. 1 2 3 e Campiâ—n rat 8 f Rhem. Annot at marg in Luk 6. 1. 1. Pet. 3. 19 g Bell. de nâ—t i.c. chlib 4. c. 9. h ibid. i Austin lib. de haresâ— 54. k ibid. l ibid. m ibid. n ibid. o ibid. p Idem lib. 1. de funct beatit Cap. 2. ct 4. q N. D. in his 2. part of 3. conuers chapt 2. sect 14. r chapt 3. sect 6. 1 ibid. t Rehm Annot. Heb. 7. 17. u Annot. in Mat. 19. 16. x Annot. in Mark 1. 8. y Annot. in 2. Pet. 1. 15. z Annot. in 2. Pet. 2. 18. a Gagge of the new Gospel Nu. 16. b Idem Nu. 26. c Idem Nu. 27. d Idem Nu. 40. e Idem Nu 46. f Rossaus lib. de iusta Reip. Christ in reges impias â—t haret authoritate cap. 4. Nu. 6. g ibid. h Cope deal 6. c. 21. i See the booke pag. k Campian rat 10. l Greg. de valent Analys fid Cathol lib. 5. cap. 1. pag. 18. m Idem lib. 7. Assertio probanda n Gagge of the new Gospel preface to the Catholicke Reader o Discip de TeÌ„p ser 121. p Seo Fox Acâ—s Mon. in Hen. 8. Treatise of the persecution in Scotland q Apologet. Cap. 1. a Allen Apology of the Seminaries c. 5. f. 58 b Campian rat 10. c Rock of the Church Ch. 8. p. 193. d Motiue 48. e Epist. 80. f Teste Espentao Comment in Tit. c. 1. p. 104. 105. g Apud Hassenmullerum Hist Iesuit ord cap. â— p. 428. h Conc. 3. de Lazaro printed at Basil 1530. i Pighius Hierarch Eccles l. 3. â— 3. 5. c. 3. Simanea Instit Cathol c. 57. nu 12. k In Arg. lib. de prâ—scipâ— adu here per Tertul. l Not in Tertul de prâ—scrip adu harâ—t c. 39. nu 237. iuxta edit Pamel m Motiâ—s 48. n n Simanea Institut Cathol c. 44. nu 2. 3. impres Valissoleti A. 1552. o Extro de Maeiori obed Cap. vnaÌ„ sanctam p Extra de Maeiorit obed Cap sâ—lita q Ibid. r Loca supra Citato Å¿ Sentron t Ibid. u Roffens adu Luth. Act. 16. Eckius in Enchirid Tit. de Communione sub altera specie x Bell. 4. de Euch Cap. 24. y Eckius loco citato z lib. 2. de Monach. Cap. 35. a Lib. 2. de Minach Cap. 36. b Staphylus in Apolog. c English Festiual feria 4. post fostum palmaruÌ„ d Ledesma de diuin script quauis lingua non legend C. 22. e Innocent 1 â—â—pist ad Eâ—uperiâ—â— vide Gratian d. 82. proposuiâ—lâ— f Bell. l. 1. de sanct beatit Cap. 20. g Ibid. h Ibid. i Greg. de valeuâ—ia de Idolâ—lat Chap. 7. k 1. Cor. 6. 4 l Bell. l. 5. Rom. Pont. Cap. 7. m Apol. of the English Sem. fol. 57. o Answer to M. Charkspref p. 57 * Districtisâ—imi Monachi p Ioh. de Polemar Orat. in Cone Basil apud Binnium 〈◊〉 4. Conc. p. 385. q Teste Azono To. 2. Instit Moral lib. 11. Cap. 2. 14. quaritur r Lib. Conformitat B. Franciseâ— per Pi saum â—di Bonon 1590. l. â— Fructus 1. fol. 13. Col. 3. Å¿ Lib. 1. Fructius fol. 113. Col. 3 t Lib. 1. Fructus 9. fol.
let me intreate this of you that you will forbeare to censure either our bookes or our persons vpon your Priests bare information For their words are no Gospel their tongues no slaunder And that you would remember that of g Tertullian Quid iniquius quà m vt oderint homines quod ignorant etiamsi res mereatur odium Tuncenim meretur cum cognoscitur an mereatur Vacante auteÌ„ meriti notitia vnde odij iustitia defenditur quae non deeventu sed de conscientia probanda est with which I end wishing to you all as to my selfe a comfortable life and blessed death Leeds in Yorkshire May 20. 1625. ALEXANDER COOKE A DIALOGVE BETWIXT A PROTESTANT AND A PAPIST Wherein is manifested the Papists Brag that Scripture maketh for them Protestant OH well met once againe where haue you bin that I neuer saw you since wee talked about Pope Ioane Are you the same man for Religion that you was then Papist Yea truely or rather more resolute and confident Prot. What new arguments haue you lighted on to increase your resolution and confidence for my part I am euery day further out of loue with your Religion then other Pa. The Arguments which haue doubled my resolution and confidence are diuers wherof the first is this That I find sentence giuen for vs Catholikes against you Protestants in all the Tribunals of Gods Church I finde that all the Writings of the Saints in Heauen professe for vs. Prot. What the Writings of the Prophets and of the Apostles and of the Fathers in the Primitiue Church and of the Councels Doe you finde that all professe for you Pa. Yea all of them Quaecunque vel opera vel fragmenta supersunt eorum qui disiunctissimis terris Euangelium seuerunt omnes nobis vnam fidem exhibent quam hodie Catholici profitemur There is not a booke nor a piece of a booke extant written by the first Preachers of the Gospel whensoeuer or how far so euer they liued one from another but it giues witnesse to the Catholike Faith which wee professe at this day Prot. Can you make proofe thereof vnto mee and I will bee of your Religion Pa. That I can and I will first begin with Scriptures for I am of Doctor Saunders opinion That there are most plaine Scriptures in all points for the Catholike Faith and none at all against the same And of Doctor Bristoes mind whose words these are Most certaine it is that from the beginning of Genesis to the end of the Apocalips there is no Text that makes for you nor against vs but all for vs. Prot. Say you so Verily and if the Scriptures be for you I will be with you for I like well of Saint Basils motion to one with whom hee had a controuersie Stemus arbitratu inspiratae à Deo Scriptura apud quos inueniuntur dogmata diuinis oraculis consona illis omnino veritas adiudicetur sententiae Let vs stand to the arbiterment of holy Scripture and let them be thought to haue the truth on their side whose opinions are found to be agreeable to Scriptures But let mee tell you a word or two by the way and they are these viz. That you are not more thorowly perswaded of the truth of your two Doctors speeches then I am of a Gentlemuns speech of our Religion who being importuned by an idle Questionist of your side to tell where our Religion was before Luthers time returned him this answere That our Religion was alwaies in the Bible where your Religion neuer was In which perswasion I am the more confirmed by this That there are of your selues no fooles I wisse who write that some among you Poene peceatum putant Scripturas legere ne sic siant haeretici Doe thinke it almost a sinne to read the Scriptures least by reading of them they should proue hereticks For if your Religion were in the Bible and that in so plaine manner as you brag why should any of you bee so afraid of opening a Bible why did one of your Iesuits confesse that Lectis Bebliotuâ—t cicius haereticum Lutheranum quam Catholicum Romanum facit The reading of the Bible makes rather Hereticall Lutherans then Romau Catholikes Why suffer you this marginal Note Nunc exâ—â—udit haresies to be set ouer these words of Chrysostaâ—â— â—gâ—oratio scripturarum peperit haereses Pa. I meane not to take vpon mee the iustifying of euery mans priuate conceits or speeches but what I my selfe haue said all that shall bee made good I will proue vnto you the troth of our Religion by the Bible Prot. Now indeede I am afraid you are bewitched with that damnable opinion which of later yeeres hath runne currantly among you viz. Sunt scriptura Vâ—lut nasus cereus qui se her sum illorsum in quam volueris partem trahi retrahi fingique facile permittit tanquam plumbea quadam Lesbiâ—â—disicationis regula quam no◠〈◊〉 difficile accommodare ad quiduis volueris The Scriptures are like a nose of waxe which may bee writhen this way or that way backward or forward as a manwould would haue it And with that of Quintinus the Parisian Doctor commended by Pamelius who writes thus Tam facile est imâ— facilius est adres profanas impias prâ—bandas detorquere sanctam scripturam quam facile est pedibus ac semi-pedibus aut penthememeribus Virgilianis Epithalmia sen quiduis aliud in vnum congerere It is as casie yea it is more easie to wrest the Scripture to the prouing of any villany or impiety then to make a Loue Song by snatching here a patch and there a patch of a Verse out of Virgil. And that in confidence hereof you hope to make a shew of somewhat out of the Bible for the prouing of your Religion otherwise I know not what should moue you to beginne with Scripture You haue forgotten I beleeue that Doctor Bristow describing the meanes to make plaine demonstration that Heretikes haue no euidence but you all aduiseth his Agents to labour still to get the Heretickes out of their weake and false Castle of holy Scripture into the plaint fields of Councels and Fathers For all his bragging of the Scriptures hee put but a little trust in them hee was loth to haue them in the foreward Pa. But I am content they match in the foreward if you will beleeue me Prot. Why but I pray you then place the best formost And if we fall into dispute with Saint Peters Supremacie trouble mee not with such Texts as some of your Rabbies alledge for it Tell me not that our Sauiour Christ said vnto S. Peter onely Duc in altum Launch into the deepe Noâ— potuisti vna hora vigilare mecum Couldst thou not watch one houre with mee Sequere me Follow me Neither tell mee in way of prouing the same That S. Peter cut off Malous care And if from that wee fall