at Aâ—twerpe Anno 1576. at Paris Anno 1586. at Coleine Ann. 1616. but no such place was there to be found the Divines of Lovaine had taken a course with them and suppressed these testimonies but by good hap I met with them in the Basil Edition Anno 1569. Object Those whom you have named in your Catalogue were originally Catholikes and not Protestants Wickliâ—fe and Husse were Catholike Priests and Luther was an Augustine Frier you cannot name such as were Protestants originally they came forth of our Church Answer Whence I pray you sprang Christs Apostles were they not taken out of the Iewish Church at that time much corrupted S. Paul speaking of himselfe and the service of his God saith Whom I doe serve from my progenitors meaning Abraham Isaac and Iacob the first Fathers of the faithfull for as for S. Pauls immediate predecessors it is likely that they relished of the leven of the Pharisees It can be no more prejudice to our Church that Luther Wickliffe aâ—d Husse were originally Papists than to S. Paul that he was originally a Pharisee or to S. Austine that he was orinally a Manichee or to our Ancestors at the first conversion of our land that they were originally heathen or to all true Converts that they were originally unregenerate For as Tertullian saith Fiunt non nascuntur Christiani We are not borne Christians but we become Christians Neither is it true that wee can name none of our Church that were not originally Papists For Farellus and the Waldensian Ministers for more than 400. yeares were not originally Papists though Waldo himselfe was Besides the Fathers for 600 yeares and the Monkes in Britaine at Augustines comming were not originally Papists In the Greeke Church from 700. to 700 afterwards many thousands held as wee doe in all fundamentals who never were originally Papists nor millions of others in the Easterne Churches and namely in the Greeke Church there have bene from 700. to 700. afterwards many thousands which held as we doe in all fundamentals and never were originally Papists Lastly the like argument might be urged against all that embraced Reformation in Iosias dayes that they originally were involved in the common errors and Idolatry of the Iewish Church Likewise that Zachary and Elizabeth and Simeon and Anna and the Apostles were originally deduced from that Church which held many errors concerning the temporall kingdome of the Messias and divorces for other causes than adultery c. Which errors Christ and his Apostles reproved In England and most parts of the world the first Christians were originally Paynims and Idolaters what prejudice is that to Christianity or advantage to Heathenisme Object Your Churches professors mentioned in your Catalogue wanted lawfull succession Answer There is a two-fold succession the one lineall and locall the other doctrinall this of doctrine is the life and soule of the other Irenaeus describeth those which have true succession from the Apostles To bee such as with the succession of the Episcopall office have received the câ—rtâ—ine grace of tâ—uth and this kind of succession hee calleâ—h the principâ—ll succession Gregory Nazianzen having said that Atâ—anasius succeeded Saint Marke in godlinesse addeth That this succession in godlinesse is properly to be accounted succâ—ssion for he that holdeth the same doctrine is also pâ—rtaker of the same throne but he that is against the doctrine must be reputed an adversary even while hâ—e sitteth in the throâ—e but the former hath the thing it selfe and the truth so that according to Irenaeus and Nazianzâ—n succession in doctrinâ— suâ—ficeth yea Nazianzen as we have heard makes it all one 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 so that he which holds the same truth of doctrinâ— may bee said to sit in the same Chaire of succession Besides wee are able to shew succession also in place for â—ive hundred yeares in most parts of Christendome and since that in the Greeke Church untill this day and in the Latine Church from the time of Waldo in France Bohemia and other places And for the Church of England the lineall succession of her Bishops is showne particularly by Mr. Francis Mason de ministerio Anglicano Mr. Goodwin in his Catalogue of the Bishops of England and Mr. Isaacson in his Chronologicall Table of the succession of the Bishops of England PA. Name in the space of a thousand yeares next before Luther three knowne and confessed Protestant Bishops succeeding each to other and if you had such expresse their agreement with you in the maine points controverted betweene us PRO. This demand was eagerly pressed upon me by a Romish Priest but the Stone which he hurled at mee not comming forth of Davids sling recoiles upon himselfe like the stone that Achilles flung at a dead skull which â—ebounded backe and strucke out the slingers eyeâ— Redijt lapis ultor ab osse Actorisque suifrontem oculâ—squè petit For I would in like manner demand of him to name three knowne and confessed Popish Bishops succeeding each other who maintained the worship of Images before the second Councell of Nice or that beleeved Transubstantiation before the Roman Councell under Pope Nicholasâ— or that avowed the dry and halfe Communion before the Councell at Constance under Martin the fift or that held the effect of the Sacraments to depend upon the Priests intention before the Councell at Florence or defined the Pope to be above a Generall Councell before the Councell of Lateran under Leo the tenth or that determined the twelve new Articles of Pius the fourth his Creed to be all de Fide and necessary to salvation before the Councell of Trent Besides there is no necessitie of naming three Bishops succeeding each other and opposing Poperie It sufficeth to name such as opposed it tho they sate not successively in the same Chaire for all Romish errors and superstitions rushed not in at once into the Church but by degrees now such as held the fundamentals with us and opposed any one error or more when they were first espied to creepe into the Church they were Protestants though they went not then under that name Now according to this account of Protestants wee can produce many more than three Bishops succeeding each other who in their times made head against Romish usurpations and superstitions for instance sake S. Austine and with him two hundred and seventeene Bishops of Africa and their successors for a hundred yeares together if their owne Records be true opposed the Popes supremacie in point of Appeales To speake nothing of the innumerable Bishops in the Easterne Churches and the Habassines and Muscovites and elsewhere succeeding each the other for many hundred yeares differing in no fundamentall point from Protestants and keeping no quarter at all with the Pope or See of Rome when Austine the Monke was sent into England by Gregory the Great the most ancient British and Irish Bishops withstood the Popes authority and ordinances stifly adhering to the Churches
Moone The Church sometimes shines in the cleare dayes of peace and is by and by over-cast with a cloud of persecution as the same Austin saith The Moone is not alwayes in the Full nor the Church ever in her glorious aspect PA. If your Church were alwayes visible where then was it before Luthers time PRO. I might also aske you Where was a great part of your Religion before the Trent Councell which was but holden about the yeere 1534. Now for our Religion it was for substance and in the affirmative parts and positive grounds thereof the question being not of every accessory and secondary poynt it was I say contained in the Canonicall Scriptures wheras you are driven to seeke yours in the Apocryphall in the Trent Creed the Trent Councell Now ours it was contained in the Apostles Creed explayned in the Nicene and Athanasian confirmed by the first foure generall Councels taught in the undoubted writings of the true ancient and orthodox Fathers of the primative Church justiâ—ied from the tongue and penne of our adversaries witnessed by the confessions of our Martyrs which have suffered for truth and not for treason This is the Evidence of our Religion whereas for proofe of yours in divers poynts you are driven to flie to the bastard Treatises of false Fathers going under the name of Abdias Linus Clemens S. Denys and the like as sometime Perkin Warbek a base fellow feigned himselfe to be King Edward the fourths sonne and for a time went under his name and yet these Knights of the poste must be brought in to depose on your behalfe though others of your side have cashiered them as counterfeits PA. If your Professors were so visible name them PRO. This is no reasonable demaund you have rased our Records conveied our Evidence clapt up our Witnesses and suborned your owne you have for your owne advantage as is already showen by that learned Antiquary of Oxford D. Iames and others and shall God willing appeare in the Centuries following you have I say corrupted Councells Fathers and Scriptures by purging and prohibiting what Authors and in what places you would and now you call us to a tryall of Names PA. Particular men may mis-coat the Fathers but our Church hath not PRO. You have witnesse your expurgatory and prohibitory Indices or Tables whereof since my selfe have of late bin an eye-witnesse and seene divers of them both in the publike and private Libraries in Oxford I will therefore acquaint the Reader with the mysterie thereof When that politike Councel of Trent perceived that howsoever men might bee silenced yet bookes would be blabs and tell truth they devised this course They directed a Commission to a company of Inquisitors residing in severall places and therby gave them power to purge and prohibit all manner of Bookes Humanitie and Divinitie ancient late in such sort as they should think fit Vpon this CoÌ„mission renued as occasion served the Inquisitors set forth their severall expurgatory and prohibitory Indices printed at Rome in Spaine in the Low-countries and elsewhere and in these Tables yet to be seen they set down what books were by theÌ„ forbidden and which to be purged and in what places ought were to bee left out whensoever the Workes should be printed anew for according to their Tables or Corrections books were to be printed afresh Now to make sure worke they got as many of the former Editions of the Fathers workes as they could into their hands and suffered no new Copie to come foorth but through their fingers purged according to their Receit neither feared they that their adversaries would set foorth the large volumes of the Fathers Workes or others having not the meanes to vent their Impressions being forbidden to be sold in Catholike countries By this meanes the Romane Censurers thought to stop all tongues and pennes that none should hereafter speake or write otherwise than the Trent Councell had dictatedâ— and so in time all Evidence should have made for the Romane cause Hereby the Reader may perceive that had their device gone on they would in time by their chopping and changing the writings of the Ancient at their pleasure have rased and defaced whatsoever Evidence had made for us and against themselves But so it pleased God that howsoever they had carried the matter cunningly in secret yet at length all comes out their plot was discovered and their Indices came into the Protestants hands The Index of Antwerpe was discovered by Iunius the Spanish and Portugall was never knowne till the taking of Cales and then it was found by the English PA. Might wee not purge what was naught PRO. Indeed if you had purged or prohibited the lewd writings of wanton Aretine railing Rablais or the like you had done well but under-hand to goe and purge out the wholesome sentences of the Fathers such as were agreeable to the Scriptures thus to purge those good old men till you wrung the very blood and life out of them bewrayeth that you have an ill cause in hand that betakes it selfe to such desperate shifts Neither can you justly say that you have corrected what others marred for it was your side that first kept a tampering with the Fathers Works and corrupted them Francis Iunius reports that hee comming in the yeare 1559 to a familiar friend of his named Lewis Savarius Corrector of a Print at Lâ—yden found him over-looking Saint Ambrose Workes wâ—ich Frâ—llonius was printing whereof when Iunius commended the elegancie of the Letter and Edition the Corrector told him secretly it was of all Editions the worst and drawing out many sheets of now waste paper from under the table told him they had printed those sheetes according to the ancient and authenticke Copies but two Franciscan Fryers had by their authoritie cancelled and rejected them and caused other to bee printed and put in their roomes differing from the truth of all their owne books to the great losse of the Printer and wonder of the Corrector so that had yoâ— prevailed neither olde nor new Greeke nor Latin Fathers nor later Writers had been suffered to speake the truth but eiâ—her like Parraâ—s been taâ—ght to lispe Popery or for ever beeâ— put to silâ—nce The best is the Manuscripts which by Gods providence are still preserved amongst us they mâ—ke for us as D. Iames excellently vers'd in Antiquitie hath showen at large PA. Have â—ee purged ought in the Fathers or Scriptures that was not to bee purged PRO. You have as appeares by these instances following St. Chrysostome in his third Sermon uâ—on Lazarus and elsewhere maintaineth thâ— peâ—spicuitie and plainnesse of the Scripâ—ures saying That in divine Scriptures all necessary things are plaine Hee likewise holdeth that faith onely sufficeth in stead of all saying This one thing I will affirme That faith onely by it seâ—fe saâ—eth In like sort Saint Hierome holds That faith only justifieth that workes doe not justifie that
affection as the Scriptures are to be reverenced Is not this to minglâ— water with wine base mettall with good Bullion and so indeed a corrupting of Scripture Besides you have which is fearefull detracted from Gods Word thaâ— which was written with his owne finger to wit the second Commandement against the worship of Images and because the words thereof are sharpe and rip up the heart-strings of your Idolatrie you have therefore omitted them in your Catechismes Prayer bookes and in your Office of the blessed Virgin set foorth by commaund of Pius Quintus and to salve up the matter lest thereby wee should have no more then nine Commaundements you have cut the tenth into two You might well have left the words â—here that Gods people might know there was such a Commandement howsoever they had counted it the first or the second Now as you have detracted so you have added to the rule of Faith by thrusting into the Canon the Apocryphall bookes which Hierome the best languaged of all the Father rejected Lastly you doe not only allow but impose on others a corrupt translation of Scripture to wit the vulgar Latine Edition whereas wee referre our selves to the Originals Now surely wee may better trust an originall Record than a Copie extracted thence and it is more wholesome to drinke at the well-head than at a corrupt and muddie streame Now the Latine Edition which you follow and preferre before all others it is but a Translation it selfe but the Hebrew and Greeke which wee follow are the Well-springs and Originalls Is not this now a manifest corrupting of Scripture to bind all men as your Trent Councell doth that none dare presume to reject this Translation which by your owne men is confessed not to be Saint Hierâ—mes and already showne to be a corrupt one by the learned of our side PA. I looke to have your Professors named PRO. Restore us entire our Evidence which you have marred and made away returne us our Witnesses which you have chained up in your Vatican Library and elsewhere and wee accept your challenge But doe you indeed looke to have our professors named and why so the true Church of God may bee visible though the names of her visible professors from time to time can not be shewed there might be thousands of professors in former ages and yet happily no particular authentick Record of their names now extant or if extant yet so as we cannot come by them Neverthelesse to answere you at your owne weapon I hope to make it cleare that God hath dealt so graciously with his Church as that he hath continually preserved sufficient testimonies of his truth that are ready to be deposed on our side and that successively from age to age so that I may say as Saint Ambrose did in the like case You may well blot out our Letters but our Faith you shall never abolish Papists may conceale our evidence and wipe out the names of our Professors out of the Records but when all is done the Protestants faith is perpetuall Now in that we yeeld thus farre to their importunitie we doe not this as if it were simply necessary for the Demonstration of our Church to produce such a Catalogue of visible Professors in all Ages but onely out of the confidence of the truth of our cause and partly to stop the mouth of our clamorous adveâ—saries For it is Tertullians Rule that A Church is to bee accounted Apostolike if it hold Consanguinitie of Doctrine with the Apostles Now what though we could noâ— successively name such as taught as we doe yet because God hath promised there should be alwaies in the world a true Church having either a larger or smaller number of Prosessors it sufficeth that we are able out of Scripture to demonstrate that we maintaine the same Faith and Religion which the holy Apostles taught and Christ would have to be perpetuall this I say sufficeth to manifest our Succession although all Histories were silent of the names of our Professors Now that I am to speake of the Church in her severall and successive Centuries and Ages to give the Reader some Character and touch thereof I will beginne with the fiâ—st 600. yeares next after Christ wherein ten severall times during the fiâ—st three Centuries the Church was persecuted by Tyrants and almost continually assaulted by Heretikes yet in the end Truth prevailed against Error and Patience overcame her Persâ—cutors This is the time wherein our learned Bishop Iewell challenged the Papists to shew any Orthodoxe Father Councell or Doctor that for the space of those 600 Yeares taught as the present Church of Rome did the like challenge was lately renued by my deare friend that worthy Divine Doctor Featly of Oxford challenging the Iesuits to produce out of good Authors any Citie Parish or Hamlet within 500. yeares next after Christ wherein there was any visible assembly that maintained in generall the Articles of the Trent Councell or such and such points of Popery as at the Conference hee named in particular Now of this period the first 300. yeares thereof were the very flower of the Primitive Church because that in theâ—e dayes the truth of the Gospell was infallibly taught by Christ and his Apostles and that in their owne persons as also by otheâ—s that lived to heare see and converse with those blessed Apostles and disciples of Christ Iesus and this haply made Egesippus an ancient Authour call the Church of those dayes an uncorrupt and virgin Church and yet was this virgin Church ill intreated by such a sowed the tares of errour which yet the carefull husbandman in time weeded up neither indeed for the space of these first 300 could those Tenets of Poperie get any footing their Papall Indulgences were yet unhatched their purgatory fire was yet unkindled it made not as afterwards their pot boyle and their kitchin smoake the Masse was yet unmoulded Transubstantiation was yet unbaked the treasury of Merits was yet unminted the Popes transcendent power was uncreated Ecclesiastickes were unexempted and deposing of Kings yet undreamed of the Lay-people were not yet couzned of the cup Communion under one kinde was not yet in kinde it was not then knowne that Liturgies and prayers were usually and publikely made in a tongue unknowne they did not then worship and adore any wooden or breaden god they worshipt that which they knew and that in Spirit and truth and they called on him in whom they beleeved so did they and so doe wee In a word in the former ages of the Church Satan was bound after the thousandth yeare hee was loosed and after the middle of the second Millenary about the yeare 1370 hee was bound anew Concerning the Churches estate in the next five hundred yeares it grew very corrupt so that of these times we may say as Winefridus borne at Kirton in Devonshire after surnamed Boniface was
could at the samâ— time dictate unto seven severall Clarkes or Notaries hee was of such esteeme that divers would say Malle se cum Origene errare quà m cum alijs verâ— sentire that they had rather erre with Origen than thinke aright with others hee exhorted others to Martyrdome and from his child-hood was himselfe desirous of the honour thereof but in the seventh persecution under Decius hee fainted and his heart was so overset with feare to have his chaste body defiled with an ugly Ethiopian that hee chose rather to offer incense to the Idoll then to bee so filthily abused for this cause hee was excommunicated by the Church of Alexandria and for very shame fled to Iudea wherâ— he was not only gladly received but also requested publikely to preach at Hierusalem But so it was falling upon that place of the Psalmist Vnto the ungodly saith God why doest thou preach my Lawes and takest my Covenant in thy mouth whereas thou hatest to bee reformed and hast cast my words behind thee Psalm 50.16.17 These woâ—ds so deepely wounded his heart with griefe that hee closed the booke and sate downe and wept and all the congregation wept with him In expounding the Scriptures hee was curious in searching out of Allegories and yet falling on that place Math. 19.12 Some have gelded themselves for the kingdome of heaven hee tooke those words literally and gelded himselfe to the end hee might live without all suspition of uncleannesse whereas hee expounded almost all the rest of the Scriptures figuratively Hee held a fond opinion concerning the paines of devils and wicked men after long torments to bee finished It is usually said of him Vbi bene scripsit nemâ— melius ubi malè nemo pejus where hee wrote wellâ— nâ—ne better so that wee may say of him as Ieremy of his figs the good none better the evill nonâ— worse Ier. 24.2 Cypriaâ—â— was a learned godly Bishop and glorious Martyr he erred indeed in that he would have had such as had beene baptized by Heretikes if afterwards they returned to the true Church to bee rebaptized yet he was not obstinate in his errour hee was as Aâ—stin saith of him not onely learned but docible and willing to bee learned and that hee would most easily have altered his opinion had this question in his life time beene debated by such learned and holy men as afterwards it was so that S. Austin makes this observation touching Cyprians errour hee therefore saw not this one truth touching Rebaptization that others might see in him a more eminent and excellent truth to wit his humilitie modestie and châ—ritie Of the Scriptures sufficiencie and Canon Tertullian though hee stood for Ceremoniall traditions unwritten and for Doctrinall traditions which were first delivered from the Apostles by word of mouth and afterwards committed to writing yet dealing with Hermogenes the Hereticke in a question concerning the faith whether all things at the beginning were made of nothing presseth him with an Argument ab Authoritate negativè Whether all things were made of any subject matter I have as yet read no where saith hee Let those of Hermogenes his shop shew that it is written if it bee not written let them feare that wâ—e which is allotted to such as adde or take away but for himselfe hee professeth that hee adoreth the fulnesse of the Scripture And why may not wee also argue negatively touching divers Tenets of Poperie that from the beginning it was not so Math. 19.8 In the two Testaments saith Origen eveâ—y word that appertaineth to God may bee required and discussed and all knowledge of things out of them may be understood but if any thing doe remaine which the holy Scripture doth not determine no other third Scripture ought to be received for to authorize any knowlâ—dge Origen in his exposition upon the first Psalme faith wâ—e may not bee ignorant there are two and twenty bookes of the old Testament after the Hebrewes which is the number of the Letters among them This is likewise witnessed by Eusebius that as Origen received the Canon of the Iewes so likewise he reiected those sixe bookes which wee terme Apocriphall with the Iewes Of Communion under both and the number of Sacraments Tertullian speaking in generall of Christians saith the flesh feedeth upon the body and blood of Christ that the soule may be fatâ—ed as it were of God hee speakes of the body and blood of Christ as distinct things saying Corpore sanguine and elsewhere he mentions the Cup given to a Lay-woman saying from whose hands shall shee desire the Sacramentall Bread of whose Cup shall shee participate hee speaketh of a Christian woman married to an Infidell and sheweth the inconvenience of such a match whereby the faithfull wife was like to bee debarred of the comfort of receiving the Sacrament and drinking of the Lords Cup. Origen maketh this question What people is it that is accustomed to drinke blood and hee answereth the faithfull people Hereunto Bellarmine saiâ—h the people did drinke but they had no commâ—nd so to doe where hee grants us that communicating under both kinds was the Agend or Church practise in this age besides Origen in this very place alleadgeth Christs praecept for the Cup out of the sixt of Iohn Cyprian speaking of such as in time of persâ—cution had lapsed and not stucke to the truth and therâ—upon were barred from the Communion hee desires that upon their repentance they may bee admitted and hee gives this reason How shall wee sit them for the Cup of Martyrdome if before wee admit them not by right of Communion to drinke of the Lords cup in the Church And againe Because some men out of ignorance or simplicity in Sanctifying the Cup of the Lord and ministring it to the people doe not that which Iesus Christ our Lord and God the Authour and Institutour of this Sacrifice did and taught Where albeit the maine scope of the Epistle bee to prove the necessity of administring the Sacrament in Wine and not in meere water as the Aquarij did yet on the bye he discovers the practice of the Church for both kinds and saith expressely that the Cup was ministred or delivered to the people Tertullian in divers places of his works acknowledgeth the same Sacraments with us to wit Baptisme and the Lords Supper and Beatus Rhenanus in his notes upon Tertullian observes the same and for this hee is brought under the Spanish inquisition and roughly entertained for his paines as appeares by a Censure passed on him and extant in the latter end of Tertullians Works Of the Eucharist Tertullian disputing against Marcion who denied that Christ had a true Body confuteth him by a reason drawne from the Sacrament of the Supper in this manner A Figure of a Body presupposeth a true Body for of a shew or phantasie there can be no Figure But
Christ gave unto his Disciples a Figure of his Body Therefore Christ had a true Body Tertullians words are these Christ taking the Bread and distributing it to his Disciples made it his Body saying This is my Body that is to say this is a figure of my Body but a figure it could not be unlesse there were a Body of a truth and in deed for a void thing as is a fantasie can receive no figure Here Tertullian affirmeth expressely of Bread which he received into his hand and distributed to his Disciples that it it is a figure of Christs Body The Rhemists answer that when some Fathers call the Bread a figure or signe they meane the outward formes of Bread and Wine but Tertullian proving the truth of Christs humanitie by the Sacrament of the Supper interprets these words This is my Body that is to say the figure of my Body where if by the figure of Christs Body there were nothing else to be understood but the formes and outward shapes the Hereâ—ike upon this construction might have concluded for himselfe that the figure of his Body is nothing but a bare forme and shape of a thing therefore he himselfe was nothing else but a â—hew of a Body no true Body Others expound Tertullians words in this sort The figure of my Body is my Body or this Bread which under the Law was a figure of my Body is now my Body But Tertullian both here and in divers other places makes Bread the Subject of the proposition this is my Body now the Accidents and shape of Bread are not Bread In a word Tertullian sheweth that Christ called Bread his Body in saying this is my Body as the Prophet Ieremie called the body bread in saying Let us put wood upon his bread meaning his Body shewing them both to be spoken equally in a figurative sense For although Tertullian say that the Bread of the Old Testament was a figure of Christs body yet he denyeth not thereby that it is so in the new The truth is Tertullians exposition is so full for us that Gregorie Valence rejects it Cyprian in the third Epistle of his second booke saith Wee find that the Cup which the Lord offered was mixed and that that which he called bloud was wine So that if we aske Cyprian what consecrated thing it was which Christ had in his hands and gave to his Disciples he answereth it was bread and wine and not absolutely that which hee gave up to be crucified on the Crosse by Souldiers namely his body and bloud if againe we demand of Cyprian why Christ called the bread which he had in his hand his body he readily answereth saying the things signifying or signes are called by the same names whereby the things signified are termed Objection Cyprian saith that this bread is changed not in shape but in nature naturâ mutatus and by the omnipotencie of God is made flesh now omnipotencie is not required to make a thing to be a signe significant Answer Bellarmine saith Cyprian was not the Author of the booke De Coenâ Domini and he saith well for these Sermons are extant in All-Soules Colledge Library in Oxford in an ancient Manuscript under the name of Arnoldus Bonavillacensis and Dedicated not to Pope Cornelius as these are pretended but to Adrian the fourth about the yeare 1150 the same time that Saint Bernard lived and wrote an Epistle to this Arnoldus But to let it passe for Cyprians it followes not the bread is changed in nature therefore it is Transubstantiated for every change of nature is not a change of substance nature implies qualities and properties as well as substances an evill man changeth his nature when he becomes a good man yet is he not Transubstantiated bread is châ—nged when of common it becomes consecrated to an holy use and office and omnipotencie is required to make the dead and corruptible elements a bit of bread and a draught of wine not onely significative but truly exhibitive seales of the body and bloud of Christ and to elevate them so high as to bee chanels and effectuall instruments of Grace Besides the Author by the words naturâ mutatus changed in naâ—ure understood not a coporall change for in the same sentence he declareth himselfe by the example of Christs humanitie which being personally united to the Deitie is changed but not so as that it looseth his naturall forme and substance Origen against Christs Body going into the Draught To proceed Origen saith that meat which is Sanctified by Gods Word and Prayer as touching the materiall part thereof goeth into the belly and is voyded into the draught but as touching the Prayer which is added according to the portion of Faith it is made profitable neither is it the matter of bread but the word spoken over it which profits him that doth not unworthily eate thereof and these things I speake of the Typicall and Symbolicall bodie Here wee see Origen distingâ—isheth betweene the Spirituall bread which is the reall body of Christ and the bread Sacramentall saying that not that body but this bread goeth into the draught or seege which no sanctified heart can conceive of Christs body Now whereas Bellarmine saith that the Accidents onely are called by Origen the materiall part wee answer that it was never heard that meere Accidents were called which are Origens words in this place either meates or materialls The truth is this place of Origens touching the typical and symbolical body is so cleere for us that Sixtus Senensis growes jealous of it to speake my mind freely saith he I suspect this place to bee corrupted by Heretikes Of Images and Prayer to Saints Concerning Images Origen replieth thus to Celsus the Philosopher that it is not a thing possible that one should know God and Pray to Images and that Christians did not esteeme these to be Divine Images who used not to describe any figure of God who was invisible and without all bodily shape nor could endure to worship God with any such kinde of service as this was In like manner when the Gentiles demanded of the ancient Christians why they had no knowne Images Minutius Felix returnes them for answer againe What Image shall I make to God when man himselfe if thou rightly judge is Gods Image and againe we neither worship nor wish for Crosses these holy Images which vaine men serve want all sense because they are earth Now who is there that understandeth not that it is unâ—it for an upright creature to be bowed downe that he may worship the earth which for this cause is put under our feete that it may be troden upon not worshipped by us wherefore there is no doubt that there is no Religion wheresoever there is an Image thus farre Lactantius Tertullian stood not onely against adoration of Images but alâ—o against the very making
governement ought not to gad and wander but they should pleade their cause there where both Accusers and Witnesses may bee had except some few desperate and naughty fellowes thinke the authority of the Bishops of Africke which have already judged and condemned them to be lâ—sse meaning lesse than that of Cornelius to whom they fled Here wee finde opposition made to the Sea of Rome by that Catholike Martyr Cyprian and others even in the weighty poynt of Appeales for so Bellarmine makes appealing to Rome and not appealing from thence a mainâ— proofe of the Popes Supremacie Now to close up this age and to looke a little homeward all this time the Christian Religion flourished quietly in Britaine till in Dioclesians dayes which made vp the tenth persecution their Churches were demolished their Bibles burnt their Priests and their flocke murthered for now was Saint Alban beheaded at the City Verulam now called after him Saint Albanes of whom Fortunatus Presbyter an ancient Poet sayth Albanum egregium foecunda Britannia profâ—rt Fruitfull Britaine bringeth forth Alban a Martyr of great worth Hee was the first that in Britaine suffered death for Christ his sake whereupon he is called our Stephen and the Proto-martyr of Britaine In like sort his Teacher or Instructer Amphibalus was cruelly Martyred at the same place being whipped about a stake whereat his entrailes were tyed and thus winding his bowels out of his body was at last stoned to death so also was Iulius and Aaron Martyred at Leicester and in Lichfield so many that the place became another Colgatha or field of dead corps for which cause the City doth beare a field charged with many Martyrs diversly tortured they beare it for their Seale of Armes even unto this day as Master Camden hath recorded Now these Martyrs they suffered for that truth which we at this day hold and not for Popish Tenets which then were not in being We have now Surveyed the Fathers Faith and practice of the Church for the first three hundred yeares next after Christ and by this particular as Hercules whole body was measured by the breadth of his foote the Reader may proportion what were the Churches Creed and her Agends generally and constantly taught and practised in these times and I doubt not but he shall find that for substance of Religion they held as wee doe and not as the moderne Papists doe so that in comparison of Originall and Primitive Antiquity Poperie is but noveltie and this hath beene already shewne when as we drew the Character of the three first Centuries I will now onely give instance in the point of Indulgences and shew that in these best and ancient times there were no such Popes pardons as afterwards were marted For in latter times we find it recorded in the Salisbury Primer that Iohn the two and twentieth for the mumbling over of some short Prayers granted a Pardon of no lesse than a million of yeares Besides these three Prayers be written in the Chappel of the holy Crosse in Rome who that devoutly say them they shall obtaine ten hundred thousand yeares of Pardon for deadly sinne granted by our Holy Father Iohn the two and twentieth Pope of Rome and of another Prayer to be said as one goes thorow a Church-yard the same booke saith as followeth Pope Iohn the twelfth granted to all that shal say the Prayer following as they passe by any Church-yard as many yeeres of Indulgences as there have beene bodyes there buried since the Consecration of the said Church-yard In the same booke there is power given to one little prayer beginning with O bone Iesu to change the paines of Hell into Purgatory and after that againe the paines of Purgatory into the joyes of Heaven This Prayer is written in a Table that hanged at Rome in Saint Peters Church neere to the high Altar there as our holy Father the Pope is wont to say Masse and who so that devoutly with a contrite heart daily say this Orizon if he bee that day in the state of eternall damnation then his eternall paine shall be changed him into temporall paine of Purgatorie and if he have deserved the paine of Purgatorie it shall bee forgotten and forgiven through the infinite mercie of God Now sure I thinke that Antiquitie cannot paralell such presidents as these THE FOVRTH CENTVRIE From the yeare of Grace 400. to 500. PAPIST WHat say you to this fourth Age PROTESTANT This was a learned Age for now there lived Optatus Bishop of Milevis in Africa and in Asia there lived Epiphanius Bishop of Cyprus Cyril Bishop of Hierusalem Macharius the Monke Basil the great the Christian Demosthenes as Erasmus calls him Gregory Nazianzene sirnamed the Divine and Grigory Nyssen brother to Saint Basil these three were equall in time deare friends and of neere alliance now also lived the Hammer of the Arrian Heretickes Athanasius the great Bishop of Alexandria great indeed for his learning for his vertue for his labour for his suffering when almost the whole world was set against him but above all great for his Creed the Athanasian Creed He suffered much trouble for the truth but God upheld him so that he dyed in peace full of dayes after he had governed the Church of Alâ—xandria six and forty yeares Nazianzene compared him in time of adversity to the Adamant for that no trouble could breake him and in time of prosperity to the Load-stone for that hee allured the hearts of men more intractable then Iron to imbrace the Truth of God In Europe there lived Hilarie Bishop of Poictiers in France and Ambrose Bishop or Millaine Ambrose was a man of noble parentage under the Emperour Valentinian hee was Governour of Liguria he was chosen from a secular â—udge to bee Bishop of Millaine and was faine to be christened before he could be consecrated he was zealous and resolute hee sharpely reproved Theodosius for the slâ—ughtâ—r of the innocent people of Thessalonica hee was grievously troubled by the Lady Iustina mother to Valentinian the second he said to his friends that were about him at his death I have not so lived that I am ashamed to live longer nor yet feare I death because I have a good Lord. Of the Scriptures sufficiencie Athanasius saith the holy Scriptures given by inspiration of God are of themselves sufficient to the discoverie of truth now if they be as the word signifieth allsufâ—icient to instruction then must they needs be all sufficient to all instruction in the truth intended and not onely sufficient for this or that point as Bellarmine would have it Saint Hilarie commendeth the Emperour Constantius for desiring the Faith to be ordered onely according to those things that be written thâ— same Hilarie assures us that in his dayes the word of God did suffice the beleevers yea what is there saith he concerning mans salvation that is not conteined in the word
of the Evangelist what wants it what obscuritie is there in it all things there are full and perfect Saint Basil saith it is a manifest falling from the Faith and an argument of arrogancie either to reject any point of those things that are written or to bring in any of those things that are not written Gregory Nyssen layeth this for a ground which no man should contradict that in that onely the truth must be acknowledged wherein the seale of the Scripture testimonie is to be seene The same Father in an oration of his calleth the Scripture an even streight and inflexible Rule neither mentâ—oneth he any more rules but this onâ— and adding the word ipsa to the Rule he delareth the same to be an adaequate and onely Rule Of the Scripture Canon The Councell of Laodicea saith we ought to reade onely the bookes of the Old and New Testament yea the same Councell recites onely those Canonicall bookes of Scripture which we allow and the Canons of this Councell though a provinciall Councell are confirmed by the sixt generall Councell in Trullo now if it be replied the Laodicean Councell excludes the Apocrypha the Carthaginian Councell receives them and both these were confirmed in the sixt generall Councell held in the Palace called Trullo and how can this stand together the matter is thus reconciled the Laodicean speakes of the Canon of Faith the Carthaginian of the Canon of good manners to both which the sixt Councell subscribed in that sence and we to it To proceed Hilary tells us the Law of the Old Testament is conteined in two and twentie bookes according to the number of the Hebrew letters and Athanasius saith the same and as touching the Apocryphall bookes as namely the booke of Wisedome Maccabees and the rest he saith Libri non sunt Canonici they are read onely to the Caetechumens or novices in Religion but are not Canonicall Epiphanius after he had reckoned up the Canon of two and twentie bookes censureth the bookes of Wisedome and Ecclesiasâ—icus in these words they are fit and profitable but not reckoned amongst those bookes which are received by our Church and therefore were neither laid up with Aaron nor in the Arke of the New Testament Ruffinus in his explanation of the Creede which is found among Saint Cyprians workes and so attributed to him setteth downe the Catalogue conteining all those bookes which we admit secluding all those that are now in question wee must know saith he that there be also other bookes which are not Canonicall but are called of our Ancestors Ecclesiasticall as is the Wisedome of Salomon Ecclesiasticus Tobias Iudith and the bookes of Maccabees all which they will indeed have to be read in the Church but not to be alledged for Confirmation of Faith To this testimonie of Ruffin Canus a Popish writer thus replieth although Ruffin did affirme that the bookes of Maccabees were to be rejected by the tradition of the Fathers yet by the Readers leave he was ignorant of that Tradition as if Canus a late writer were better skilled in the Primitive tradition than Ruffinus or Cyprian Gregorie Nazianzen nameth all the bookes that wee admit save that he omitteth the booke of Hester being misperswaded of the whole by reason of those Apocryphall additions to it Now Bellarmine would shift off such testimonies as these by saying it was no fault in them to reject these bookâ—s because no generall Councell in their dayes had decreed any thing touching them But we aske how it came to passe that so many Catholike Divines after this pretended decree of their Canon rejected these bookes as others had done before for some in every Age rejected thâ—m Of Communion under both and number of Sacraments Gregory Nazianzene saith of his sister Gorgonia in this manner if her hand had laid up any portion of the types or tokens of the precious body and of the bloud he saith that his sister after she had communicated she laid up some part of the Sacrament of the body and bloud of Christ now as she kept the consecrated bread in a cloth so she might carry the wine in a viall howsoever this religious woman received in both kinds The same Nazianzen bids reverence the Lords Table to which thou hast accesse the bread whereof thou hast beene partaker the cup which thou hast communicated being initiated in the passions of Christ. Athanasius being accused for breaking a Chalice writeth thus What manner of Cup or when or where was it broken in every house there are many Pots any of which if a man breake he committeth not sacriledge but if any man willingly break the sacred Chalice he committs sacriledge but that Chalice is no where but where there is a lawfull Bishop This is the use destin'd to that Chalice none other wherein you according to institution doe drinke unto and before the Laity This was the custome in Athanasius his dayes Saint Ambrose speakes to a great secular Prince Theodosius in this sort How dare you lift up to him those hands from which the blood yet droppeth will you receive with them the sacred body of our Lord or how will you put in your mouth his precious bloud who in the commanding fury of your wrath have wickedly shed so much innocent bloud The same Saint Ambrose in his Treatise that hee wholly set apart for the laying foorth of the Doctrine of the Sacraments specifyeth not any other than either those two of ours Baptisme and the Lords Supper and yet wee have of his as they are divided sixâ— bookes de Sacramentis of the Sacraments And so I come to treat of the Sacrament Of the Eucharist PA. You have produced Hilarie and Cyril of Hierusalem on your side whereas they make for us in the poynt of the Sacrament Saint Hâ—larie sayth nos verè verbum carnem cibo Dominico sumimus Hil. l. 8. de Trinitate PRO. Hilaries testimony was much urged by Mr. Musket Priest and was notably cleered by Doctour Featly in the second dayes disputation now to the place alleadged he sayth The Word truely became Flesh truely to wit by Faith and Spiritually not with the mouth and carnally Objection These words of Hilarie Sub Sacramento communicandae carnis and the like following nos verè sub mysterio carnem corporis sui sumimus wee truely receive the Flesh of his body under a mystery prove the reall presence of Christs flesh under the formes of bread and wine Answer Saint Hilarie by the words Sub Sacramento and sub mysterio carnem sumimus meaneth nothing but that in a mystery or Sacramentally we eate the true flesh of the Sonne of God sub mysterio is no more than in mysterio that is mystically under a similitude in a similitude or after a resemblance Object St. Hilarie sayth in the booke alleadged de veritate carnis sanguinis non est relictus ambigendi locus
eternall power and Godhead was manifested unto them by the creation of the World and the contemplation of the creatures hee addeth presently that God was sorely displeased with them and therefore gave them up unto vile affections because They changed the Glory of that incorruptible God into an Image made like unto corruptible men and to birds and foure-footed beasts and creeping things whereby it is evident that the Idolatry condemned in the wisest Heathen was the adoring of the invisible God whom they acknowledged to be the Creatour of all things in visible Images fashioned to the similitude of men and beast as the admirably learned Bishop Vsher hath observed in his Sermon preached before the Commons House of Parliament in Saint Margarets Church at Westminster Of Prayer to Saints There wanted not some who even in the Apostles daies under the pretence of Humilitie labored to bring into the Church the worshipping of Angels which carried with it a shew of Wisdome as Saint Paul speakes of it not much unlike that of the Papists who teach their simple people upon pretence of Humilitie and their owne unworthinesse to prepare the way to the Sonne by the servants the Saints and Angels this they counselled saith Theodoret should be done using humility and saying that the God of all was invisible and inaccessible and that it was fit men should get Gods favour by the meanes of Angels And the same Theodoret saith that they had 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Oratories or Chappels of Saint Michael Now the Councel of Laodicea to meete with this errour solemnly decreed that Christians ought not to forsake the Church of God and goe and invocate Angels and pronounced an Anathema against any that should be found to doe so because say they He hath forsaken our Lord Iesus Christ the Sonne of God and given himselfe to Idolatry And Theodoret mentions the Canon of this Councel and declares the meaning of it in these words Whatsoever ye doe in word or deed doe all in the name of the Lord Iesus giving thanks to God and the Father by him The Synod of Laodicea also following this Rule and desiring to heale that old disease made a Law that they should not pray unto Angels nor forsake our Lord Iesus Christ now there is the same reason of Saints that there is of the Angels PA. Iesuit Fisher in his Rejoynder to Doctor Whites Reply the second and third point saith The Councel and Theodoret are thus to be understood that Angels are not to be honoured as Gods PRO. How appeareth it that Christians were so rude in those Ages as to imagine that Angels were Gods or that sacrifices after the Pagan manner were due to them It appeareth by Theodoret that those whom he condemneth did not thinke the Angels to be Gods but that they served them as ministring Spirits whose service God had used for the publishing of the Law PA. Bellarmine saith The Councel forbad all worship of Angels called Latreia as being proper unto God but Binnius liketh Baronius exposition better who saith The Councel onely forbad the religious worship of false and heatheâ—â—sh Gods PRO. Bellarmine doth wrong in restraining the Councels speech to a speciall kind of worship for Theodoret saith generally that the Councell forbad the worship of Angels Neither did the Councell meane thereby to forbid the religious worship of false and heathenish Gods for Theodoret mentioneth the Oratories of Saint Michael and of such Angels as were supposed to give the Law and therefore were not ill Angels Baronius perceiving that the place in Theodoret toucheth the Papists to the quicke telleth us plainely That Theodoret by his leave did not well understand the meaning of Pauls words and that those Oratories of Saint Michael were anciently erected by Catholikes as if Baronius a man of yesterday at Rome could tell better what was long since done in Asia than Theodoret a Greeke Father and an ancient Father and Bishop living above twelve hundred yeares agoe not farre from those parts where these things were done Others to avoid the force of the canon have corrupted the Councell making this reading That men should not leave the Church to pray in angles or corners turning Angelos into Angulos Angels into Angles or corners but Veritas non quaerit angulos the truth will admit none of these corners neither hath the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 any affinitie at all with corners To proceed the Fathers of this age affirme that religious prayer is a proper worship belonging to the sacred Trinitie and by this argument Rom. 10 14â— conclude against the Arrians and Macedonians that Christ Iesus and the Holy Ghost are truely God because Christians believe in them pray unto them they accept their petitions Athanasius saith No man would â—ver pray to receive any thing from the Father and from the Angels or from any of the other creatures Gregory Nyssen saith Wee are taught to worship and adore that nature onely which is uncreated and accordingly Antonius in his Melissa hath set downe the foresaid sentence but the Spanish Inquisitors have commanded that the word Onely should bee blotted out of his writings Now the word Onely is the onely principall word whereupon the whole sentence dependeth In like sort where Athanasius saith that God onely is to bee worshipped that the Creature is not to adore the creature that neither men nor Angels are to be worshipped The popish Index as is already observed in the Preface to this Treatise hath razed these sayings out of his Index or table which yet remaine in the text Epiphanius tels us of some superstitious women that were wont to offer up a Cake to the blessed Virgin and this vanitie hee calleth the womans Heresie because that sexe mostly vsed it but hee reproves them saying Let Mary bee in honour but let the Father and the Sonne and the Holy Ghost bee worshipped let no man worship or adore Mary and indeed hee bends all his force against that point of adoring no lesse then in sixe severall places saying Mariam nemo adoret Now Adoration being condemned it can not bee conceived that adoring her and offering to her they prayed not also to her and required of her somewhat againe All which Epiphanius reprooves Saint Ambrose speaking of our Advocate or Master of Requests saying What is so proper to Christ as to stand by God the Father for an Advocate of the people and elsewhere hee saith Tu solus Domine invocandus es thou Lord onely art to bee invocated and whereas there were some that about this time sued unto Saints and Angels saying Wee have recourse to Angels and Saints with devotion and humilitie that by their Intercâ—ssion God may bee more favourable unto us Saint Ambrose or who evâ—r else was author of those Commentaries upon Saint Pauls Epistles that are framed among his workes
That which maketh strongly against the Papacie For now a daiâ—s this Stile of Vniversall Bishop which Gregorie held to bâ—e the Harbinger of Antichrist is brought in as a maine proofe of the Popes Supremacie Neither could Gregorie restraine his Successors from bearing this Title for Boniface the third who next save one succeeded Gregorie Obtained of Phocas the Emperour not without great contention that the See of Rome should bee callâ—d the head of all Churches being the same place of preheminence in â—ffect which Iohn in Gregories time so much affected Now by this the Reader may perceive and that from the tongue and pen of one of their best Popes that were since his time that in Gregories judgement his successours that enjoy this swelling Title and transcendent power are proved to be Antichristian Bishops Lastly the Reader may observe who it was that gave the Pope this jurisdiction it was even that usurper Phocas who murthered his master Maurice the Emperâ—ur and then confâ—rred this prophane Title on Pope Boniface a fit Chapleine for such a Paâ—ron Hitherto wee have treated of Saint Gregories Faith and visited the Colledge of Bangor the Foundation whereof is ascribed to King Lucius from whose time unto the entraâ—ce of Austine the Monke 438. yeares were â—xpired In all which space the Christian Faith was both taught and imbraced in this Iland notwithstanding the continuall persecutions of the Romans Huns Picts and Sâ—xons which last made such desolation in thâ— outward face of the Church that they drove the Chriâ—â—â—â—n bishops into the Deserts of Cornwaile and Waâ—es in which number were the bishops of London and Yorke Now by their labours the Gospell was replaâ—ted amongst the Inhabitants of those vast Mounâ—taines and farther spread it selfe into these Northerne parts what time as Edwin and Oswald Kings of Northumbeâ—land sent for Saint Aidan and Finan into Scotland to convert their Subjects to the Faith PA. What were this Aidan and Finan PRO. They were the worthy instruments which the Lord raised up for the good of our countrey for by the ministery of Aidan was the kingdome of Northumberland recovered from Paganisme whereunto belonged then beside the shire of Northumberland and the lands beyond it unto Edenborrough Frith Cumberland also and Westmoreland Lancashire Yorkshire and the Bishopricke of Durham And by the meanes of Finan not onely the kingdome of the East-Saxons which contained Essex Middlesex and halfe of Hertfordshire regained but also the large kingdome of Mercia with the shires comprehended under it was first converted unto Christianitie so that these two for their extraordinarie holinesse and painefulnesse in preaching the Gospel were â—xceedingly reverenced by all that knew them Aidan especially Who although hee could not keepe Easter saith Bede contrary to the manner of them which sent him yet hee was carefull diligently to performe the works of Faith Godlinâ—sse and Love after the manner used by all holy men whereupon hee was worthily beloved of all even of them also who thought otherwise of Easter than hee did and was reverenced not onely of the meaner ranke but of the Bishops themselves Honorius of Canterbury and Felix of the East-Angles In this Age also was held the sixt generall Councell at Constantinople summoned by the Emperours commandement it was called against the heresie of the Monothelites and therein Honorius the Pope was accursed for a Monothelite It was theâ—e also decreed that the See of Constantinople should enjâ—â— equall priviledges with the See of Rome And whereas some Canons were alleadged for restraint of Priests marriage they were opposed by this Councel and the Church of Rome is in expresse termes taxed for urging them And upon paine of deposition to the gainsayers it was decreed That the marriage of Ecclesiasticall persons was a thing lawfull and that their conjugall cohabitation stood with the Apostolike Canons was an ancient tradition and orderly constitution And in case continencie were enjoyned it was not perpetuall but 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in the proper turnes or courses of their ministery so that the restraint of Priests from marrying neither is nor ever was conceived to be saith learned bishop Andrews but Positivi juris which being restrained upon good reason it might upon as good reason be released and Pope Pius the second was of opinion That there was better reason to release them then to restraine them and so were divers other at the Councell of Trent if there had beene faire play and yet Iesuit Coster holds that a Priest offends greatly if he commit fornication Gravius tamen peccat but he offends more grievouslie if he marry PA. This Councel was neither the Sixt nor generall PRO. Caranza and Balsamon call it both sixth and generall We grant indeed that to speake precisely the sixt Synod under Constantine the fourth published no Canons but afterwards divers of the same Fathers which had formerly met in the sixt Synod they and others to the number of 227 being called together by the then penitent and restored Emperour Iusâ—inian gathered up and set forâ—h the Canons formerly made and by them re-enforced and Balsamon saith that Basilius Bishop of Gortyna the Metropolis of Creete which was then under the Arch-bishop of Rome and the Bishop of Ravenna were there to represent the Romaâ—e Church The truth is your Romanists cannot endure tâ—is Gâ—eeke Councel because it sets the Patriarke of Constantinople cheeke by joule with the Romane Bishop In a word if some Canons of this Councel be justly excepted against this makâ—s not against us for wee warrant not all that goes uâ—dâ—r thaâ— Councels name nor them that once spoke truth from ever erring And it seemes Gratian he Monke hath beene a tampering with the Canon alleadged for in one of Gratians Editions we reade thus Let not Constantinople bee magnified as much as Rome in matters Ecclesiasticall and in another Let Constantinople be advanced as well as Rome And now have we surveyed the first sixe generall Councels and found them to have beene called by the Emperour and not by the Pope and yet Bellarmine now a dayes denyes this power to godly Princes and would conferre it on the Pope THE EIGHTH CENTVRIE From the yeare of Grace 700. to 800. PAPIST WHat say you to this eighth Age PROTESTANT This Age was beholden to our nation which afforded such worthies as venerable Bede the honour of England and mirrour of his time for learning as also his Scholler Alcuinus counted one of the Founders of the Universitie of Paris and Schoole-master to Charles the Great by whom or his procurement were written thoâ—e Libri Carolini King Charles his bookes opposing the second Nicen Synod which stood for Image worship Now also lived Antonie the Monke and Damascen one that laid the foundation of Schoole-divinitie among the Greekes as Peter Lombard afterward did among the Latines he was indeed a Patron of
signifying mysteryâ— rei veritas the truth of the thing as it is opposed to significans mysterium a signifying mystery simply excludes the reality of the thing for it is all one as if he had sayd that it is there onely in a signifying mystery as also in saying it is there suo modo after a sort onely he implieth that it is not there truely or in the truth of the thing visibly or invisibly So that these words of Gratian drawne from Saint Austin and Prosper seconded by the Glosse and inserted into the body of the Cannon law confirmed by Pope Gregorie the thirteenth make strongly against the reall presence of Christ's body under the Accidents of Bread and Wine as my learned friend Master Doctor Featly made it appeare in his first dayes Conference with Master Musket touching Transubstantiation Besides there were divers in this age who employed both their tongues and their pennes in defence of this truth Zacharias Chrysopolitanus saith that there were some perhaps many but hardly to bee discerned and noted that thought still as Berengarius did whom they then condemned scorning not a little the â—olly of them that say the appearing accidents of Bread and Wine after the conversion doe hang in the ayre or that the sences are deceived Rupertus saith It is not to be concealed that there are diverse though hardly to be discerned and noted which are of opinion and defend the same both by word and writing that the Fathers under the Law did eate and drinke the very Bread and Wine which wee receive in the Sacrament of the Altar And hee saith they grounded their opinion upon that of the Apostle 1 Cor. 10.3.4 They did all eate the same spirituall meate and did all drinke of the same spirituall drinke for they dranke of the spiritual rock that followed them and the rocke was Christ. and the same Rupert addeth that the Church tollerated this diversity of opinion touching the sacrament of the Eucharist for so he saith in his seaventh booke whence we may observe that forsomuch as the Fathers under the Law did eate of the same Christ in Manna that we doe in the Sacrament of the Supper and yet did not nor could not eate him carnally who was not then borne nor had flesh we also in our Sacrament can have no such fleshly communication with Christ as some imagine And whereas Bellarmine replyes that the Fathers received the same among themselves but not the same with us Christians he is controlled by Saint Austine who saith it was the same which we eate the corporall food indeed was diverse but the spirituall meate was the same they eate of the same spirituall meate Of Images and Prayer to Saint Nicetas Choniates a Greeke historian reports in the life and reigne of Isaac Angelus one of the Easterne Emperours that when Fredericke Emperour of the West made an expedition into Palestina the Armenians did gladly receive the Almaines because among the Almaines and Armenians the worshipping of Images was forbidden alike Claudius Sâ—yssell and Claudius Coussord both which wrote against the Waldenses reckon up this among the Waldensian errours that they denyed the placing of Images in Churches or worshipping of them Gratian saith that question is mooved whether the deceased doe know what the living heere on earth doe and withall he addeth how that the Prophet in the person of the afflicted Israelites saith Abraham our father is ignorant of us and Israell knoweth us not Esay 63 16. and hâ—rein Gratian followed Saint Austine who maketh the same inference upon that place of Scripture Gratians resolution in this point is farther layd downe by the Glosse in those termes Gratian mooveth a certaine incident question whether the dead know the things that are done in this world by the living and he answereth that they doe not and this he proveth by the authority of Esay viz. Esay 63.16 the Master of the Sentences saith It is not incredible that the soules of the Saints that delight in the secrets of Gods countenance in beholding the same see things that are done in the world below Hugo de Sancto victore leaveth it doubtfull whether the Saints doe heare our prayers or not and rejecteth that saying of Gregorie brought to prove that they doe qui videt videntem omnia videt omnia hee that seeth him who seeth all things seeth all things hee confesseth ingenuously saying I presume not to determin this matter â—arther than thus that they see so much as it pleaseth him whom they see and in whom they see what soever they see and he saith it is a hard taske to decide these points and withall thus debateth the matter Yea but thou wilt reply If they heare me not I doe but waste words in vâ—ine in making intercession unto them that doe neither heare â—nor understand Be it so Saints heare not the words of those that call unto them well nor is it pertinent to their blessed estate to be made acquainted with what is done on earth admit that they doe not heare at all doth not God therefore heare If he heare thee why art thou sollicitous then what they heare and how much they heare seeing it is most certaine that God heareth unto whom thou prayest he seeth thy humility and will reward thy pietie and devotion so that in effect Hugo makes it not any materiall thing or of necessity to pray unto Saints Rupertus upon those Words of our Saviour Whatsoever ye shall aske the Father in my Name he will give it yoâ— Iohn 16.22 saâ—th that it is the wholesome custome and Rule of the Catholicke Church to direct her prayers to God the Father through Iesus Christ our Lord because there is no other way nor passage but by him and againe we need no other chariot save onely the name of Iesus to carry and convey our prayers into heaven Claudius Seyssel saith the Waldenses held that it was in vaine to pray to the Saints and that it was superstition for to worship and adore them Of Faith and Merit SAint Bernard beleeved Iustification by Faith alone saying Let him beleeve in thee who justifiest the ungodly and being justified by Faith onely he shall have peace with God Rupertus saith that the obstinate Iew sleights the Faith of Iesus Christ which alone is able to justifie him and seekes to be saved by his owne workes Rupertus saith that God hath freely called us by the ministery of his Word unto the state of Salvation and justified us by the gracious pardon of our sinnes not upon any precedent merits of ours Saint Bernard likewise held as we have showne that our workes doe not merit condignely and herein he is most direct and punctuall The merits of men are not such saith he as that eternall life is due to them of right or as if God should doe wrong if he did not yeeld the same unto them
the Friars be not liegemen to the King ne subject to his lawes For though they stealen mens Children to enter into their orders it is sayd there goes no law upon them Friars saien apertly that if the King and Lords and other men stonden thus against their begging and other things Friars will goe out of the land and come againe with bright heads and looke whether this be treason or no Friart faynen that though an Abbot and all his Covent ben open traytours yet the king may not take from them an halfe penny Friars also destroyen the Article of Christian faith I beliefe a common or generall Church for they teachen that thâ— men that shall be damned be members of holy Church and thus they wedden Christ and the divel together Friars by hypocrisie binden men to impossible things that they may not doe for they binden them over the commandements of God as they themselves say Friars wast the treasure of the land forgetting Dispensations vaine pardons and priviledges But of the pardon that men usen to day fro the Court of Rome z they have no sikernes that is certainty by holy writ ne reason ne ensample of Christ or his Apostles By this we see that Wickliffe stoutly opposed those Innovatours the Friers who like their successours the Iesuites taught and practised obedience to another Soveraigne than the King persecution for preaching the Gospell exemption of Cleaâ—gy-men the use of Legends in the Church and reading of fables to the people pardons and indulgences the heresie of an accident without a subject singular and blind obedience and lastly workes of Supererogation Now whereas Wickliffe was reputed an Heretike it is likely that this imputation was laid upon him especially by Friars to whose innovations he was a professed enemy PAP Many exceptions are taken against Wickliffe and namely that hee held That God ought to obey the divell PROT. Our learned Antiquary of Oxford Doctour Iames hath made Wickliffes Apology and answered such slanderous objections as are urged by Parsons the Apologists and others Now for the objection made there is neither colour nor savour of truth in it there was no such thing objected to him in the Convocation at Lambeth neither can his adversaries shew any such words out of any booke written by Wickliffe although he wrote very many Indeed wee finde the quite contrary in his workes saith his Apologist for Wickliffe saith That the divel is clepid that is called Gods Angell for he may doe nothing but at Gods suffering and that he serveth God in tormenting of sinfull men The phrase indeed is strange and if either he or any of his Schollers used such speeches their meaning haply was that God not in his owne person but in his creatures yeeldeth obedience to the devill that is sometimes giveth him power over his creatures PAP Wickliffe taught That Magistrates and Masters are not to be obeyed by their subjects and servants so long as they are in deadly sinne PROT. Even as light House-wives lay their bastards at honest mens doores so you falsely father this â—is-begotten opinion on Wickliffe which some of your owne side say belongs to one Iohn Parvi a Doctour of Sorbone And indeed in right it is your owne inasmuch as you upon colour and pretence of heresie in Princes absolve subjects from their Allegeance and raise them up in armes against their lawfull Soveraigne witnesse your bloody massacres in France the death of the two last Henryes in France the untimely death of the Prince of Orange the many attempts and treasons against Queene Elizabeth as also that hellish designe of the Gun-powder treason But supppose Wickliffe said so yet his words might have a tollerable construction to wit that a Prince being in state of mortall sinne ceased to be a Prince any longer he ceased to be so in respect of any spirituall right or title to his place that he could pleade with God if he were pleased to take the advantage of the forfeiture but that in respect of men he had a good title still in the course of mundane justice so that whosoever should lift vp his hand against him offered him wrong Wickliffe indeede admonisheth the King and all other inferiour Officers and Magistrates as elsewhere he doth Bishops That he beareth not the sword in vaine but to doe the office of a King well and truely to see his Lawes rightly executed wherein if hee faile then he telleth him that he is not properly and truely a King that is in effect and operation which words are spoken by way of exhortation but so farre was hee from mutiny himselfe or perswading others to rebellion that never any man of his ranke for the times wherein he lived did more stoutly maintaine the Kings Supremacy in all causes as well as over all persons ecclesiasticall and civill against all usurped and forreine Iurisdiction and one of his reasons was this that otherwise he should not be King over all England but Regulus parvae partis a petty governour of some small parts of the Realme PAP Wickliffe taught that so long as a man is in deadly sinne he is no Bishop nor Prelate neither doth he consecrate or baptize PROT. If Wickliffe said so he sayd no more than the Fathers and a Councell said before him Saint Ambrose saith Vnlesse thou embrace and follow the good-worke of a Bishop a Bishop thou canst not be The Provinciall Councell saith Whosoever after the order of Bishop or Priesthood shall say they have beene defiled with mortall sinne let them be remooved from the foresaid orders The truth is Wickliffe lived in a very corrupt time and this made him so sharpely inveigh against the abuses of the Cleargy but abusus non tollit rei usum and yet Wickliffe writeth against them that will not honour their Prelats And hee elsewhere expresseth his owne meaning that it is not the name but the life that makes a Bishop that if a man have the name of a Prelate and doe not answere the reason thereof in sincerity of doctrine and integrity of life but live scandalously and in mortall sinne that he is but a nomine-tenus Sacerdos a Bishop or Priest in name not in truth Neverthelesse his ministeriall Act may be availeable for thus saith Wickliffe Vnlesse the Christian Priest be united unto Christ by grace Christ cannot be his Saviour nec sine falsitate â—icit verba sacramentalia Neither can he speake the Sacramentall words without lying licèt prosint capacibus Though the worthy receiver be hereby nothing hindred from grace PAP Wickliffe held that it was not lawfull for any Ecclesiasticall persons to have any temporall possessions or property in any thing but should begge PROT. This imputation is untrue for what were the lands and goods of Bishops Cathedrall Churches or otherwise belonging to Religious houses which were given Deo Ecclesiâ— were they
amisse and not to prosecute Luther but this Councel was not followed wherupon divers parts according to Gersons Councel began this worke of Reformation so much desired by all good men howsoever opposed by the pope and his adherents PA. A Reformation presupposeth that things were amisse will you charge the Catholicke Church with errour PRO. Wee say that particular Churches and such is that of Rome may erre and divers have erred Sixtus Senensis reckons up many Fathers that held the Millenary errour mistaking that place in the Revelation 20.5 They said that there should be two Resurrections the first of the godly to live with Christ a thousand yeares on earth in all wordly happinesse before the wicked should awake out of the sleepe of death and after that thousand yeares the second Resurrection of the wicked should bee to eternall death and the godly should ascend to eternall life this errour continued almost two hundred yeares after it began before it was condemned for an heresie and was held by so many Church-men of great account and Martyrs that Saint Augustine and Ierome did very modestly dissent saith the same Senensis The opinion of the necessity of Infants receiving the Sacrament of the Lords body and blood as well as Baptisme did possesse the minds of many in the Church for certaine hundreds of yeares as appeareth by that which Saint Austine writeth of it in his time and Hugo de Sancto victoâ—e many hundred of yeares after him Were there not also superstition and abuses in the primitive Churches did not a Councell forbid those night vigils which some Christians then used at the graves of the Martyrs in honour of the deceased Saints and are not these Vigils now abolished Doth not Saint Aâ—stine confesse there were certaine Adoratores sepulchrâ—rum â—t picturarum worshippers of tombes and pictures in the Church in his time and doth not the same Father taxe them for it To come to later times Thomas Bradwardine complayned That the whole world almoâ—t was gone after Pelagius into errour arise therefore O Lord saith hee and judge thine owne cause Gregorius Ariminensis saith That to affirme that man by his naturall strength without the speciall helpe of God can doe any vertuous action or morally good is one of the damned heresies of Pelagius or if in any thing it differ from his heresie it is further from truth The same Gregory saith The heresies of Pelagius were taught in the Church and that not by a few or them meane men but so many and of so great place that hee almost feared to follow the doctrine of the Fathers and oppose himselfe against them therein Cardinall Contaren saith That there were some who pretended to be Catholikes and opposite to Luther who whiles they laboured to advance free-will too high they detracted too much from the free-grace of God and so became adversaries to the greatest lights of the Church and friends to Pelagius It is not strange then that weâ— say there hath beene a defection not onely of Heretikes from the Câ—urch and faithâ— but also in the Church of her owne children from the sincerity of faiâ—h dâ—livered by Christ and his Apostles not for that all or the whole Church at any time did forsake the true faith but for that many fell from it according to that of Saint Paul 1. Tim. 4.1 In the last times some shall depart from the faith attâ—nding to spirits of errour Besides such a famine of the word as fell out in these later times must needs have brought in corruption in doctrine and this was it that called for Reformation For in sundry ages last past the Roman Church hath behaved her selfe more like a step-dame then a naturall mother insomuch as shee hath deprived her children of a principall portion of the food of life the word of God her publike readings and service were in an unknowne tongue the holy Scriptures were closed up that people might not cast their eyes upon them fabulous Legends were read and preached insteed of Gods word but as Claudius Espencaeus a Doctor of Paris a bitter enemy to Bâ—za and therefore more worthy of credit in this bâ—halfe saith Our Ancestors as devoutly affâ—cted to the Saints as we thought is not fit that the rehearsall of the Saints lives should shoulder out the bookes of the old and new Testament and the reading thereof And hereby it came to passe as one of their owne Authors saiâ—h That the greater number of people understood no more concerning God and things divine in particular and distinct notions then Infidels or heathen people And here in England there was such a dearth of the word in these later times of popeâ—y that some gave five markes some more some lesse for an English booke some gave a load of hay for a few Chapters of Saint Iames or of Saint Paul in English Was it not now high time to reforme these things but Rome would neither acknowledge her errours nor reâ—orme them but rather sought to defend them persecuting such as by authority established laboured this reformation How easie and safe had it beene for Rome had shee tendered the peace of Christendome to have according as the truth required permitted the uâ—e of the Cup as sometime the Councell of Basil allowed it to the Bohemians and the publike service of God in a knowne language as was sometimes granted to the Slavons as also to have abolished the worship of Imâ—ges and the like without which the Church wâ—s and that very well for a long time But Rome would not yeeld in one point lest shee should bee suspected to have erred in the rest and therely the Infallibility of the Roman Oracle the Pope bee called in question PA. That which is reformed remaines the same in substance that it was before And therefore the Catholike Religion and the substantiall exercise thereof should have remayned in England upon the Reformation but you have set up another Religion PRO. We doe not say that the Catholike Religion is reformed for that cannot bee amended but that wee have reformed Religion in that we have purged it from certaine devises and corruptions which had crept into it Before this reformation Religion was like to a certaine lumpâ— or masâ—e consisting partly of gold aâ—d partly of other refuse mettall and drosse to a sicke body wherein besides the flesh blood and bones and vitall spirits there were also divers naughty humours that had surprised the body our reformation tooke not away your gold to wit those fundamentall truths wherein you agree with us but purged it from the drosse it drew not the good blood from the body but onely purged out the pestilent humour so that we have retained whatsoever was sound Catholike and primitively ancient onely those things that were patched to the ground-soles of Religion that wee have pared away as superfluous wee have not removed the ancient land-markes
say it was not onely apparant enough in the Greeke and Easterne Churches and in such as had made an open separation from the Romish corruptions such as were in these Westerne parts the Wâ—ldenses Wickleâ—iâ—ts and Hussites but it was also within the community of the Romish Church it selfe even there as in a large field grew much good corne among tares and weeds there as in a great bâ—rne heape or garner was preserved much pure graine mixed with store of chaffe Object I except against that you have said Master Brereley cals it a Ridle To say your Church was under the Papacie as wheat is under the chaffe and yet the Papacie was not the true Church Answer It is no Enigma or Ridle it being all one in effect as to say the Christian Church at our Saviours comming and after consisting of Ioseph and Mary Simeon and Anna the Shepherds and the Sages Christs disciples and others was in and under the Iewish Church consisting of Scribes and Pharisees who with their false glosses and vaine traditions had corrupted the Law of God was not sanum membrum a sound part of Gods Church but as our Saviour saith Like sheepe without a Shepheard Mark 6.34 Object You say your Church was under the papacie but the papacie was not the true Church by the like reason you may say that the hidden Church of God is preserved among the Turkes can there be a Church without an outward ministerie Answer It followeth not and the reason of the difference is because amongst the Turkes there is not that meanes of salvation inasmuch as they have not given their names to Christ but the true Church of God may bee preserved withiâ— the Romish Church in as much as they have the Scriptures though in a strange tongue as also Baptismeâ— and lawfull ordination and the like helpes which God in all ages used that his Elect might begathered out of the midst of Babylon And whereas you urge an outward and publike ministery this maketh nothing against the Church of England which for substance hath the same descent of outward ordination with the Roman Church neither can any man shew a more certaine pedegree from his great Grand father than our Bishops and Pastors can fâ—om suâ—h Bishops as your Church accounts canonâ—call in the time of King Henry the eight and upward such â—aâ—re evidence can wee produce for an outward and publâ—ke miâ—istery in the Church of England and such ordination wee hold very necessary and yet in case it cannot be had Gods children by their private reading and meditation of that which they have formerly learned may supply the defect of a publike ministery even as some Christians at this day being slâ—ves in Turky or Barbarie may be saved wiâ—hout externall ministery but this is in case of extremity for us we never wanted a standing ministery Neither did the Waldenses Wicklivâ—sts and Hussites for so I call them for distinction sake ever want an outward and lawfull ministery amongst them for the administration of the word and Sacramentsâ— Object You say your Professors communicated with the Roman Church but did not partake in her errours as you call them did they not joyne with them in the Massâ— and the Letanies of the Saints and the like Answer The thing wee say is this that howsoever they outwardly communicaâ—ed with Rome yet divers of them misliked in their heart their grosser erroâ—s they groaned under the Babylonish yoake and desired reformation besides many of them were ignorant of the depth and mysterie of poperie Object If your Protestant Church were in bâ—ing at and before Luthers appearing then did such as were members thereof either make profession thereof or not if they did tell us their names and where they did so if they did not then were they but dissemblers in Religion according to that of Saint Paul Rom. 10.10 and our Saviour Math. 10.33 Answer I will but take what your Rhemists grant and reâ—oâ—t your owne argument they say That the Catholike Church in their time was in England although it had no publike government nor open free exercise of holy function whence I argue thus if their Roman Church had any being at that time in England then their Priests and Iesuits either made publike profession of their faith or not if they made open profession why then did they goe in Lay-mens habits and lurke in corners if they made not open profâ—ssion then were they but dissemblers Besides I have already given you in a Catalogue of our professors who within the time mentioned witnessed that truth which wee maintaine by their writings confessiâ—ns and Martyrdom Now for us wee have rejected nothing but popery wee have willingly departed from the Communion of their errors and additions to the faith but from the Communion of the Church wee never departed In a word there were some who openly and constantly withstood the errours and corâ—uptions of their time and sealed with their bloud that truthâ— which they with us professed others dissented from the same errours but did not with the like courage oppâ—se themselves such as would sâ—y to their friends in private Thus I would say in the Schooles and openly Sed maneat inter nos diversum sentio but keepe my Councel I thinke the contrary PA. Was not the Masse publickly used in all Churches at Lâ—thers aâ—pearinâ— was Protestancie then so much as in being saith Master Bâ—eâ—ely PRO. If by a Protestant Church saith learned Doctor Field we meâ—ne a Church beleeving and teaching in all poinâ—s as Protestants doe and beleeving and teaching nothing but that they doe the Latine or West Church wherein the Pope â—yranâ—ized before Luthers time was and continuâ—d a true Protestant Church for it taught as we doe it condemned the superstition wee have removed it groaned under the yoke of tyranny which wee have cast off howsoever there were many in the midâ—t of her that brought in and maintained superstition and advanced the Popes Supremacie But if by a Protestant Church they understand a Church that not onely dislikes and complaines of Papal usurpation but also abandonâ—th it and not onely teacheth all necessary and saving truth but suffâ—reth none within her jurisdiction to teach otherwise wee confesse that no part of the Westerne Church was in this sort a Pâ—otestant Church till a Reformation was begun of evils formerly dislikâ—d Now whereas it is objâ—ctâ—d that the Masse wherein they say many chiefe poinâ—s oâ— their Râ—ligion are comprehended was publickely uâ—ed at Luthers appearing It is answered by Doctor Field that thâ— usiâ—g oâ— the Masse as the publicke Liturgie is no good proofe inasmuch as manifold abuses in pâ—actice besides and contrary to thâ— word of the Canon and the inâ—enâ—â—â—â— of them that first compoâ—ed the sameâ— have creâ—t into iâ— as also sundry Apocryphall thiâ—gs have slipt into the publicke Service of the Church these things will bâ—tter appeare by â—articular instances Concerning private
were held as you say not by the best members of the Church but by a domineering faction therein how came it that the prevailing faction suffered others to dissent from them in judgement Answer So long as men yeelded outward obedience to the Church-ceremonies without scandall in other things they were suffered to abound in their owne sense so that they submitted themsâ—lves to the obedience of the Church of Rome Besides the Church of Râ—me had not so strictly defined those Tenets in any Councel before as afterwards they did in the Councel of Tâ—ent PA. Our name Catholicke is ancient your Protestant name came not in till after Luther Besides it is a scandalous thing for your Church to derive authoritie from Wickliffâ— Husse Luther and Calvin PRO. Indeed the name Protestant began upon the protâ—sting of the Elector and Laâ—d grave against the Edict howsoever the Faith is ancient though the name bee not and yet if you stand upon names wee are called Christians and into that name were wee Baptized and that is anciâ—nter than your Roman catholicke Now you are called Catholickes but it is with an aliâs or addition Roman-Caâ—holickes as much as to say Particular Vniversall the part is the whole one Citty the woâ—ld and it is your selves that terme you Catholickes Now if one Papist call another so it is but as if one Mule should claw another The Hagarens boldly usurped the name of Sarazens although they were only the brood that sprang from the wombe of Hagar the hand-maid of Sara The Papists by this terme Catholicke worke upon simple people arguing from the one to the other as if all the priviledges of the Catholicke Church belonged to the Romane but we tell them as Optatus did the Donatists who pinned up the Church in a corner of Africke as the Romanists now conâ—ine her to their See that Their Church is Quasi Ecclesia in some sort a Church but not the Catholicke Church but an unsound member thereof We doe not derive our Church from any other than the Primitive Catholicke and Apoâ—tolickâ— Chuâ—ch The Lord is not farre from every â—â—e of us for we are also his off spring Christ Iesus is the top of our kiâ—ne and Religion the stocke Your Pedegre mâ—y be drawne in part from some of the ancient Hereâ—iâ—kes in â—espect of your Invocaâ—ion of Sainâ—s and Angelsâ— you are a kinne at least by the halfe bloud to the Angelici Who as Saint Austâ—ne saith were inclined to the worship of Angels and were from thence as Isidore noteth Called Angelici because they did worship Angelâ— By your Hyperdalâ—a and wâ—â—ship given to the blessed Virgin you shew your selves allied to the Collyridian Hereâ—ikes whom Epiphanius termes Idolaters now thâ—y were called Collyridians from the Collyrides or Cakes which at a certaine time of the yeare they used to offer unto the blessed Virgin sacrificing to her as to the Qâ—eene of heavâ—n By your doctrine of merit and workes of supererogâ—tion you resemble the Pelagians or Catharists Isidore notes it for a propertie of the Catharists or ancient Puritans To glory of their merits Thomas Waldâ—n saith It was a branch of the Pelagian heresie to â—old that according to the measure of meritorious workes God will reward a man so meriâ—ing Now the Rhemists a sprig of this branch mainâ—aine That they doe woâ—ke by their owne freewill and thereby deserve their salvation as also that Good workes are meritorious and the very cause of salvatâ—on so farre that God should be unjust if he rendred not hâ—aven for the same Now concerning the names of Wicklâ—ffe and Husse Luther and Calvin wherewith you pressâ—uâ— you shâ—ll not hereby drive us from holding that with them which thâ—y held of God for though wee rejoyce not in names drawnâ— from men but in the name of Christians into the which we are bapâ—ized yet wee know no great harme by them nor you we thinke set slaunders apaâ—t why we shâ—uld bee ashamed of them more than oâ—r Fathers were of Caecilian of whom the Dâ—natists câ—lled thâ—m Caeciâ—ianists but had they beene as evill almost as their enemies report them from which impâ—tations they are alrâ—aâ—y cleared anâ— theiâ— doctâ—ine â—ixâ— with lâ—â—ven as was the Phâ—risees yet Saint Paul hath tauâ—ht us to acknowledge our selves even Pâ—â—â—iseâ—s iâ— need be not onely Lutherans or Waldensâ—s in that the Pharisees taught a truth of Christian faith to wit the Resurrection of the dead In a word we esteeme of Calvin and Luther and the rest of the first Reformers as worthy men but wee make them not Lords over our faith PA. What thinke you of our fore-fathers that lived and died in the time of Poperie as you call it they were of our Religion PRO. I thinke charitably of them that they might bee saved for many of them were well meaning men and wanting meanes of better instruction they were carried with the sway of the times and as Saint Paul saith 1. Tim. 1.13 Did it ignorantly like those two hundred 2. Sam. 15.11 who in simplicity of heart followed Absalon knowing nothing of his treason and rebellion intended they knew not the depth and mysterie of poperie not their Merit of condignity nor their severall sorts of adoration their Latria Dulia and Hyperdulia Indeed the Scriptures and Church-service were lockt up in an unknowne tongue and yet even in the depth of Poperie as appeares by a Councell held at Clyffe and also by a Provinciall Constitution of Iohn Peckam Arch-bishop of Canterbury The Priests were enjoyned to teach the people the heads of Christian faith and Religion and namely to expound unto them the Creed the ten Commandements and the Sacraments and that vulgariter that is as the Glosse there saith in the vulgar and mother tongue to wit in English to the native English and in French to the French-borne so that even in those daâ—ker times there was a measure of explicite faith required at the hands of Lay-people and they were to be trained up in the knowledge of those Credendorum so farre as the Letter of the Creed might leade them and Faciendorum such as the Decalogue appointed them and Petendorum comprised in the Lords prayer and Recipiendorum tendred in the Sacraments It is Lyrae's conceit that when Saint Paul saith 1. Cor. 14.19 Hee had ratâ—er in the Church speake five words with his undeâ—standing then ten thousand in a strange tongue that those five words were those Agenda and Credenda which concerne our faith and manners as also those Vitanda Timenda and Speranda which the Pastors were to declare unto the people Besides there were divers parcels of the Creed concerning Christ and namely touching his Incarnation Passion his Resurrection and Ascension that were wont to be represented to their memories and meditations in the severall Festivities and Holy-dayes which the Church solemnized Besides wee hope the better for that they erred in points of
lesse moment and danger such as blemished indeed but tooke not away the Churches being and that they held the true foundation of Religion that is Iustification and Salvation by Iesus Christ his merits onely God dealing graciously with our fore-fathers in that this point was ordinarily taught in their bookes of Visitation and Consolation of the sicke In this respect wee hope that divers both formerly and in our dayes who live Papists die Protestants for howsoever in their life time they talke of Workes Merits and Satisfaction to God yet on their death-bed divers of them find little comfort in Crosses and Crucifixes Pictures and Popes pardons in Agnus Dei's blessed Gâ—aines Reliques and the like then they renounce all meere humane satisfaction merit and workes and breath out their last breath in the Protestant language of that holy Martyr Master Lambert who lift up his hands such hands as he had and his fingers ends flaming with fire and cried out to the people in these words None but Christ none but Christ. The example of Stephen Garâ—iner Bishop of Winchester is notable to this purpose when the Bishop lay sicke on his death-bed and Doctor Day Bishop of Chichester comming to visit him began to comfort him repeating to him such places of Scripture as did expresse or import the free justification of a repentant sinner in the blood of Christ hereunto Winchester replyed What my Lord quoth he will you open that gap now then farewâ—ll altogether you may tell this to such as me and others in my case but open once this window to the people and then farewell altogether Laâ—tly we are not simply and in euery thing to follow our Ancestors it was the argument of Simmachus the heathen Our religion which hath continued so long is to bee retained and our Ancestors to be followed by us who happily traced their fore fathers but the Loâ—d saith Walke yee not in the ordinances of your fore-fathers neither after their manners nor defile your sâ—lves with their Idols I am the Lord your God walke yee in my statuâ—es and keepe them and not after your vaine conversation which yee have received by the tradition of the Fathers as Saint Peter speakes Object If you hope so well of our fore-fathers why hope you not so well of us their children Answer The parties are not alike besides there is great difference of the times then and now the former were times of ignorance these are the dayes wherein light is come into the world in what they erred they erred ignorantly following the conduct of their guides doing as they taught them and so were mislead as Saint Austine saith Errantes ab errantibus by their blind guides but upon better information wee presume they would have reformed their errours Now he is more to bee pitied who stumbleth in the darke than in the day-light men are now admonished of their erâ—rours offer is made to them to be better instructed so that their censure will bee heavier if either they dote on their owne opinions unwilling to bee instructed in the reveled truth or after sufficient knowlâ—dge and conviction for some worldly respects they wilfully and obstinatly persist in their old errors and which is farre worse hate and persecute the maintainers of the truth Saint Cyprian saith If any of our Predecessors either of ignorance of simplicity hath noâ— observed and held that which our Lord hath taught us by his word and example by the Lords mercy pardon might bee granted to his simplicitie but to us that are now admonished and instructed of the Lord pardon cannot bee granted Saint Augustine puts a difference betwixt Heretikes and them that beleeve Heretikes and he saith farther They that defend an opinion false and perverse without pertinacious selfe-mindednesse especially which not the boldnâ—sse of their owne presumption hath begotten but which from their seduced and erronious Parents they have received and themselves doe seeke the truth with care and diligence ready to amend their errour when they find the truth they are in no wise to bee reckoned among Heretikes this was the case of our Fathers under the Papacie In a word our Fathers they lived in those errours of ignorance not of obstinacie and knew not the dangerous consequence of them such men by particular repenâ—ance of sinnes knowne and generall repentance of unknowne might by Gods mercie be saved Object If holding the foundation will serve as you seeme to say in the case of our fore-fathers then we may safely obtaine salvation in the Church of Rome Answer This followeth not for the Church of Rome buildeth many things which by consequent destroy the foundation Rome doth both hold the foundation and destroy it she holds it directly destroyes it by consequent As the Galathians held the foundation to wit salvation by Iesus Christ and yet withall held a necessity of joyning Circumcision with Christ which doctrine by consequence destroyed the very foundation for so Saint Paul wrote unto them Galat. 5.2.4 If they were circumcised Christ profited them nothing hâ—e became of none effect unto them they were fallen from gracâ— In like sort Poperie opposeth the Faith not directly but obliquely not formally but virtually not in expresse termes but by consequence Poperie overthrowes the foundation by consequence whiles it brings on so many stories of unsound adjections and corrupt super-additions upon the ancient ground-sole of Religion as are like to â—ndanger the whole frame The learned and acute Doctor Doctor Hall now Lord Bishop of Exceter gives severall instances hereof Poperie overthroweth the truth of our Iustification whiles it ascribes it to our owne works the All-sufficiencie of Christs owne Sacrifice whiles they reiterate it daily by the hands of a Priest Of his Satisfaction while thâ—y hold a payment of our utmost farthings in a devised Purgatorie Of his Mediation while they implore others to ayde them not onely by their Intercession but their Merits suing not onely for their prayers but their gifts the value of the Scriptures whiles they hold them unsufficient obscure in points essâ—ntiall to salvation and bind them to an uncertaine dâ—pendance upon the Church Now for the simpler sort whilâ—s in truth of heart they hold the maine principles which they know doubtlâ—sse the mercy of God may passe over their ignorant weakenesse in what they cannot know For the other I feare not to say that many of their errours are wilfull The light of truth hath shined out of heaven to them and they loved darkenesse more than lighâ— Thus farre that learned â—ishop PA. The Protestants at â—ast many of them conâ—â—sse there may be salvation in our Church we absolutely deny thereâ—s salvâ—tion in theirs therefore it is safâ—r to come to ours than to sâ—ay in theirs to be where almost all grant salvation than where the greater part of the world deny it PRO. This point is fully cleered by the judicious Author of the Answer to