other minde in any thing God wyll reueale the same to you also Thus you may sée that S Austine dooth not allowe the sentence of any man no nor the sentence of the vnitie it selfe which I vnderstand to be a generall Councell against the Canonicall Scripture The same Saint Austine wryting to Saint Ierome in his fifteene Epistle sayth thus Ego enim fateor charitati tuae c. I confesse sayth S. Austine I haue learned to giue this reuerende feare and honor onely to those Bookes of the Scriptures which nowe are called Canonicall that I doe firmely beléeue that none of the Authors of them haue in wryting erred any thing at all By this saying of Saint Austine it may appeare that he was of this minde that there may be errour euen in the decrées of your generall Councels Againe against the Donatistes Saint Austine wryteth thus Quis autem nesciat Scripturam canonicam c. Who can be ignoraunt sayth Saint Austine that the holy Scripture as well of the olde as of the newe Testament is conteyned within her owne boundes or lymittes and that the same is so preferred before all the latter wrytings of Bishops that concerning it there may be no doubt or controuersie at all whether any thing that is certainly knowne to be written in it be true or right And the writinges of Byshoppes which haue bene or be written after the confirmation of the Canon may be found faulte with if it happen that any thing therein doo swarue from the trueth eyther by more wyse spéeche of any other that is more expert in that matter or by the more graue Authoritie of other Bishoppes or the wisedome of menne better learned or by Councels yea and that the Councels them selues which are holden in particular Regions or Prouinces must without any doubting giue place to the authoritie of full Councels which are made of the vniuersall Christian world Yea that the full or generall Councels that are first holden may be amended by them that are holden afterwardes when by any experience of thinges that thing that before was shut is made open and that thing which lay hyd is made knowne And this may be done without any hautinesse of sacrilegious pride without any swelling throte of arrogancie without any contencion of spightfull enuie with holie humilitie with Catholique peace and with Christian Charitie Thus farre Austine Nowe I thinke you wyll confesse that your Catholique Church may erre or else that S. Austine one of the Doctors of that Church dyd erre For he sayth that the latter generall Councels may amend the former He sayth also that there may be no doubt or controuersie about the trueth of any thing that is knowne to be written in the Canonicall Scriptures Therefore blame vs not though we flée from the iudgement of the Church to the scriptures which can neuer deceaue vs. And as touching that inconuenience that you doo put vs in minde of which is the denying of the Scriptures by Atheists I pray you let me propone one question to you and so pose you as night to the quicke as you haue posed vs. What if your Church should vtterly be denied to be the Church of Christe Or what if those Atheists that be in Englande or else where should denie that Christe hath any Church at all or that there is or hath been any such Christe as we beléeue in Might not those Infidels thinke you laugh you to scorne for robbing your selues of your owne defence which is the worde of God which Saint Paule calleth the sworde of the Spirite But now you wyll returne to your purpose If conference of one Scripture with an other might giue lyght enough to all men Howe happeneth it that all sectes vsing that conference the sectaries can neuer agrée in theyr opinions c. To this not I but S. Paule shall giue you aunswer Oportet haereses esse vt hij qui probati sunt manifesti sint in vobis It can not be auoyded but that there must be heresies or sectes that they which be tryed may be made knowne amongst you Let S. Paule defend his owne assertion as he can I wyll betake me to that vttermost shift that you say we haue notwithstanding that you call it a weake one Saint Austine sayth that the Scriptures must be read by such as doo vndoubtedly beléeue that they are most true witnesses And these are his wordes Agant orando quaerendo bene viuēdo vt intelligant c. That is They must labour by prayer and by séeking and by lyuing well that they may vnderstand that is that they may sée in minde as much as may be séene that which they doo holde by faith And S Iames sayth If any man lacke wisedome let him aske it of God c. Thus may you sée that both S. Iames and S. Austine doo allowe of this shift which you doo accoumpt to be so weake and such intollerable pride Yea S. Austine addeth these wordes Quis hoc prohibeat imó veró ad hoc quis non hortetur Who can forbid this Yea rather who wyll not exhort héerunto doo you therfore accoūpt of it as you luste we wyll styll vse it as the ready way to attayne to that knowledge that is necessarie for vs. As for the reuealing of the trueth to the vniuersall Church for which Christe him selfe dyd praye we confesse that according to his promise Christe hath reuealed to them altogether and to euery perticular member amongst them as much as he knewe to be méete to be reuealed to them And so be the wordes of his promise Ille vos docebit omnia suggeret vobis omnia quae cūque dixero vobis He shall teach you all thinges and he shall put you in minde of all those thinges that I shall speake vnto you The pleasaunt pastime that you make with the course that we take in the searche and studie of the Scriptures I passe ouer for I knowe that he onely to whome we pray dooth know how faithfully we pray and whether with teares or without To him we shall stande or fall Iudge not you an other mans Seruaunt But you say we must néedes be all deceyued so long as we dwell in dissention and are not in errours only but also one of vs contrarie to an other And who now must be Iudge to trie the Spirites whether they be of God or no Onely the Church say you or else they shall not be tryed at all c. For the first Saint Paule hath tolde you that of necessitie sectes must be amongst men and euen amongst such as be of the Church of Christe And that because such as be allowed or tryed can not otherwise be knowen And as touching the other poynt Saint Austine sayth thus Contra insidiosos errores Deus voluit ponere firmamentum in scripturis contra quas nullus audet loqui qui quoquo modo se vult videri Christianum
man but as holie men of God spake it inspired by the holy Ghost yet most contrary to this expresse rule euery priuate mā shall haue libertie to interprete it to his owne peruers will after a priuate interpretation otherwise then at first it was inspired to the holy men If euer man maie appeale from the Ecclesiasticall sence of the vniuersall Churche to the Text it self as he vnderstandeth it 4 The fourth Reason is becausé by appealyng onely to the Scripture you séeme to giue men libertie to denie all vnwritten verities which wee haue receiued of the Churche either by expresse definition in generall Counsaile or but by tradition And I beleeue at my firste na 〈…〉 of unwritten verities Maister Crowley and his 〈…〉 straight waie as though all suche were 〈…〉 to temper their follie I will not saie their pride a 〈…〉 that point I aske them all this question How thei proue the Trinitie of persones in the Vnitie of the substaunce in Godheade by the expresse Scriptures Or the two distinct natures in Christe and but one person Or God the Father to be Ingenitus Or the proceedyng of the holy Ghoste both from the Father and from the Sonne as from one Fountaine or the descendyng of Christ into Hell by plaine wordes of Scripture beyng therefore of many now a daies flatly deuyed Or the custome of Baptising of Infants seeyng the Scripture soundeth rather as though thei should bee taught first their faith before their were Baptized saiyng Goe and teathe all Nations Baptizyng them c. Or why we should kéepe the Sondaie now at all and not the Saterdaie rather whiche was the Iewes Sabothe daie that the Scripture speaketh of to be sanctified Although your Puritanes which goe to plough vpon all the Churches Holydaies seeme not yet to know the Sondaie for any of their makyng or why we should not abstaine now still like Iewes from strangled meates as the Apostels once decreed in the Acts and by no expresse Scripture againe abrogated Yea then why maie not any Hereticke denie al our thrée Créedes both the Apostles Créede the Nicen Creede as it is called the Creede of Athanasius seing neuer a one of these is written in Scripture expresly but all lefte vs by tradition onely vpon credite of the Churche Marke you not how these Bedlem Scripture men would shake all the foundations of our Christian faith by binding vs to beleue nothing but Scripture Do not these blinde guides thinke you leade us a trim daunce towarde infidelitie Thus muche of the fourth Reason 5 The fift is because that without a certaine Iudge for interpretatiō of Scripture absolutely this absurditie would followe y t God which is the Author of al perfectiō and disposeth euery thing in swete decent order had left his vniuersall Church in yearth in this confusion y t when soeuer any doubtfull question should arise vpō construction of his holy will there were no prouision at all ordained by God for deciding of such strifes and preseruation of concord among his people and then certainly the kingdome of Gods Churche were not so well prouided for in their gouernment as euery ciuill kindome is by pollicie of carnall men amōgst whom none almost are so barbarous but that thei haue Counsellers for gouernment of their state Iudges for expounding executing of their lawes aswell as lawes written or els it were ridiculus would not he be counted a very wise man thinke you in one of our Parliamentes whiche should steppe vp like a graue Burgesse and perswade all his fellowes that for asmuche as thei had a noble and an auncient Lawe written vnto them the Realme should haue no longer neede henceforthe of any Prince nor any Rulers nor Peeres nor Iudges nor Iustices nor ciuill Magistrates but euery man vppon his worde for the warrant would bee content to gouerne hym self orderly by the lawe written whiche as his wisedome thinkes is plaine enough And truely no wiser be thei but muche more to bee laughed to scorne whiche will haue the Scripture to bee the onely Iudge for euery man to appeale vnto and refuse all authoritie of the Churche in expoundyng thereof for who knoweth not that the Arrian Heretickes brought fortie places of Scripture for their horrible Heresie more then the Catholikes had against theim but all falsely vnderstoode whiche when it is so misunderstoode and misapplied then S. Augustine calleth it the Heretickes howe wherewith they shoote out their owne venemous arrowes And Vincent Lir. saieth it is then the Sheepes cloathyng whiche the Wolfe doeth shroude hym self in because that when a simple bodie feeleth the softnesse as it were of his fliece he should not mistrust the Tyrannie of his teethe That is to saie of his false construction of Scripture wherwith he would deuour his saule So did the Deuill hymself alleadge Scripture vnto Christ and as oft as any Heretikes aleadge Scripture to vs against the Catholike faith So oft saieth Vincentius we maie be out of doubt the Deuill doeth speake vnto vs by their mouthes and saieth vnto vs euen as he saied vnto Christ Si filius deies mitte te deorsum as much to saie If thou wile bee the sonne of God and professor of his holy Gospell cast thy self doune from the high authoritie and tradition of this Catholike Churche whom if wee aske againe why we should so doe then saieth Vincentius he commeth out with Scriptum est enim because it is written saieth he in the holie booke from thence thou must learne a newe lesson of me how to be a right Christian man To whom we must saie then Vade Satan non tentabis c. Auaunt Sathan c. and that with greate feruencie of faith for more perillous is the temption of such a flatteryng Serpent saieth S. Augustine then the roaryng of an angrie Lyon because the one wee flee from with feare but the other with entising maie come the nerer to sting vs. 6 The sixt reason most waightie of all is this because if you will refuse the authoritie of the Churches absolute iudgement vppon the Scriptures true cense you shall seeme plainly to denie the holy Ghoste to be the Spirite of truthe whiche vppon the Apostles and all the faithfull was sent doune with visible signes and with his Church is promised to remaine vnto the worldes ende by these wordes of our Sauiour I will aske my Father and he shall send you an other comforter to tarie with you for euer the spirite of truth And a little after thus The holy Ghoste the comforter whom my Father will sende in my name shall teache you all truthe Loe the Church is the surest Iudge and none shure but the Churche for all men in doubtes of Scripture because it hath a promise that it shall neuer erre in iudgement whiche is notably confirmed by the Prophet Esay saiyng This is my couenaunt with them saieth our Lorde my spirite whiche is in thee and my worde which I
expectantes satagite immaculati inuiolati ei inueniri in pace domini nostri longanimitatem salutem arbitremini sicut charissimus frater noster Paulus secundum datam sibi sapientiam scripsit vobis sicut in omnibus epistolis loquens in eis de hijs in quibus sunt quaedam difficilia intellectu quae indocti instabiles deprauant sicut caeteras scripturas ad suam ipsorum perditionem And I thinke that you your selfe would translate them into Englishe thus Wherefore dearely beloued waityng for these thinges giue your endeuour to be founde vnto hym in peace beeyng without spot and vndefiled and thinke that the long sufferyng of our Lorde is saluation euen as our moste deare brother Paule according to the wisedom that is giuen vnto him hath written to you euen as in euery Epistle speakyng in them of those thinges amongst whiche are some thinges that are harde to be vnderstanded whiche vnlearned and vnstable menne doe depraue euen as thei doe other Scriptures to their owne destruction I trust you doe see now that we neede not that reason whiche you doe call childishe and is not indeepe so childishe but that it hath in all ages been and is still allowed amongst the learned for the beste rule in vnderstandyng of places of the Scripture wherein is any difficultie But now you doe begge or rather take leaue to pose vs one question furder to the quicke And thus you saie How is it possible to knowe by any conference of the Scriptures which is Canonicall Scripture and which is not c. You seeme to bee perswaded that this question toucheth to the quicke in deede For you affirme plainly that if any Infidell Hereticke or Arbeist shall denie any parte of the olde or newe Testament or the whole olde and new Testament as in tymes past some haue doen. c. We haue no Ankor holde against such but onely the Reuelation of God to the Churche by Tradition which Churche is the piller and sure staie of truth c. I confesse that the Church is the Piller and sure staie of truthe as Sainct Paule writeth But that this truth is reuealed to the Churche by Tradition as you write that I denie For God hath taught and doth still teach the truthe to his Churche by the worde of truth and not by Reuelation or Tradition And that worde of truthe is sufficient and needeth not that any thyng should bee added to it either by Reuelation or by Tradition Yea there is an horrible cursse pronounced against all such as shall adde any thyng to in The true Catholique Churche is in deede the Piller and sure staie whereon that truthe that is taught by the worde of truthe doeth staie For that worde of truthe is the voyce of her Sheepeheard and she delighteth in hearyng that voyce but the voyce of a straunger she can not abyde to heare The truthe taught by the voyce of her Sheepehearde she laieth vp in her harte and all her delight is to lette men see it in her life and conuersation that séeing her good lyfe they may be occasioned therby to glorifie her spouse Christe and his and her heauenly Father This is that authoritie that S. Austine sayth moued him to beléeue the Gospell And this authoritie caused him to write thus against that Epistle of Manichaeus which the Maniches called theyr foundation Ego veró Euangelio non crederem nisi me Catholicae Ecclesiae commoueret authoritas Surely I would not beléeue the Gospell except the authoritie of the Church dyd mooue me thereto Not many lines before those words S. Austine sayth thus to the Maniches Apud vos vbi nihil horum est quod me inuitet ac teneat c. That is Amongst you where no part of that thing is which might allure and holde me there soūdeth only a promising of the trueth which vndoubtedly if it be shewed foorth so manifestly that it may not be doubted of it is to be preferred before all those thinges that doo holde me in the Church I pray you Maister Pownde ponder well these wordes of Austine and be not afrayde with Austine to yéelde to the manifest trueth when it shall be manifested to you onely because it lacketh the consent of Peoples and Nations the authoritie of Myracles the nourishment of hope the increase of looue the establishment of Antiquitie the holde from Peters seate the succession of Priests and the name of Catholique For S. Augustine sayth That the manifest trueth must be preferred before all these But if you wyll marke it well you shall finde that the trueth which we holde and teach and would wishe you and all your sort to embrace dooth not lacke the chéefest of those thinges that mooued S. Austine first to embrace it For it is the same that first gotte credite by those Myracles that were wrought by Christe and his Apostles It was and is styll nourished by hope It was and is styll increased by looue it is also confirmed by that seate which you call Peters and hath the succession of Priests although not in such sort as you allowe of And last of all it hath the right name of Catholique Thus I hope you doo now sée that you haue not rightly applied eyther the words of Paule or of Austine mynding thereby to prooue that the Church of Roome being such a Church as nowe it sheweth it selfe to be is the Piller of trueth and that Catholique Church whereunto all Christians should and must of necessitie cleaue if they wyll be saued by Christe Your conclusion wherein you aduise all men to beware of fléeing from the Church to the iudgement of the Scriptures onely c. Was not so aduisedly made as were séemely to be made by one that were so well séen in the writings of y e Fathers as you would séeme to be For as I thinke yea I am perswaded that I may safely affirme there is not one of the auncient Fathers of your minde in that poynt Saint Austine in his Epistle fortie and eight written to Vincentius sayth thus Noli ergò frater contra diuina tam multa tam clara tam indubitata testimonia c. Doo not therefore Brother shewe thy selfe wylling to gather out of the wrytinges of Bishoppes reproches against so heauenly so many so cleare and so vndoubted testimonies whether the same Bishops be on our side as Hillarius or of the vnitie it selfe before the faction of Donatus was separated from it as Cyprian and Agripinus First for that that kinde of writing must be distinguished from the authoritie of the Canon for they are not so read that testimonie should be taken out of them that it might not be lawfull for any man to be of a minde contrarie thereto if perhappes they shall in any place be of other minde then the trueth requireth For we are of that number that may not disdayne to take euen vnto our selfe this saying of the Apostle And if ye be of an
Diuell him selfe dyd alleadge scripture against our sauiour Christe and dyd applie it as rightlie as Bonifacius the eight did when after he had one day shewed him self in his Pontificalibus that is his Popely attyre and the next day in the robes of an Emperour he sayd thus Ecce duo gladij hic Beholde heere are two swordes Another of your Popes setting his foote vppon the necke of Fredericus the Emperour sayd Super Aspidem Basiliscum ambulabis conculcabis Leonem Draconem Upon the Aspe and Basiliske shalt thou walke and vpon the Lyon and Dragon shalt thou treade And surely as often as these wresters of the Scriptures doo speake vnto vs the Diuell dooth as Vincentius sayth speake by theyr mouthes c. But héere I leaue your Vincentius and you together tyll at some more leysure I may reade him ouer I can not thinke that hée dooth handle that place of Mathewe so grosely as you would make vs beléeue that he dooth But though he doo the matter is not great For there is none that hath any sence or féeling in the vnderstanding of the Scriptures but the same may easily sée that when our sauiour Christe sayde Non tentabis DominuÌ„ Deum tuum Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God He had a farre other meaning then that which you woulde make vs beléeue that Vincentius dooth gather of these wordes Yea Athens I dyd first write this aunswer I haue read ouer Vincentius and haue founde that you doo belye him But as one mistrusting the authoritie of your Vincentius you clap in the necke of it one sentence of S. Austine but you tell vs not where we shall finde it But if those wordes be Austines as it may be that they are they wyll and doo serue much better against you and your sort then they can against vs. And thus much to your fift Reason which I haue called Fraudulent for the cause afore mencioned ¶ The â—ixt Reason YOur sixt and last Reason most weyghtie of all is this Because if we wyll refuse the authoritie of the Churches absolute iudgement vppon the scriptures true sence We shall séeme plainely to deny the holy Ghost to be the spirite of trueth c. This Reason I haue called Fanaticall For that in making so great an accoumpt of this Reason you séeme not to be in your right wittes What bedlem would abuse the wordes written in the fowretéene of Iohn as you doo to prooue that because our Sauiour Christe dyd praye for and obtayne and dyd giue the holy Ghost the spirite of trueth to his holy Apostles and dyd promise that the same should remayne with them for euer and instruct them in all trueth therfore the same holy Ghost must néedes be and remayne styll in that Church which agréeeth with the Church of the Apostles onely in name and is no more lyke the Apostles Church in doctrine and manners then blacke is lyke to whyte and God is lyke the Diuell The Wise man sayth that Wisedome wyll not enter into a malicious soule neyther wyll she dwell in a body that is subiect to sinnes For the holy spirite of Wisedome flyeth from deceite c. And shall we thinke that the holy Spirite of trueth hath bene and wyll be styll amongst such a rabble of Popes Cardinalles and other Catholiques as your owne Histories make mencion of that haue besides theyr beastly lyfe made decrées directlie contrarie to Gods commaundements Yea shall we thinke that the Spirite of Christe dwelleth amongst those Catholiques that at this day doo in the twentie and fiue Session of the Councell of Trent pronounce all such accurssed as doo shewe them selues eyther by doctrine or otherwise to mislyke with the hauing of Images in Churches seeing the same is dyrectly contrarie to the second commaundement of God Shall we thinke that the holy spirite of God dyd guide those your Catholique Fathers when they dyd in the same Session blanche the counterfeyting of Gods Maiestie by an Image And thinke you that Esay the Prophet if he were now lyuing would allowe your applying of his wordes to such Catholiques and to theyr doinges séeing the same Prophete dooth so earnestly speake against the making of Images scorning bothe them and theyr makers and plainly affyrming that they be good for nothing The Scribes the Pharisies the high Priestes and Doctors of the lawe might as well haue mainteyned theyr corrupt Doctrine and Traditions against Christ and his Apostles euen by those words of Esay that you applie for your purpose as you may now by the same mayntaine all the corrupt Doctrines and Traditions of your Catholiques For they dyd then perswade them selues as you doo now that the promise was made to them could not but be perfourmed to them And that therfore Christe and his fauters were Scismatiks and méete to be excommunicated as by them they were in déede and as by you we be now But to our great and vnspeakable comfort our sauiour Christe hath foretolde vs of this saying These wordes haue I spoken vnto you that you should not be offended They wyll excommunicate you and the time will come wherin whosoeuer shall hyll you will think that he dooth God good seruice And that promise also that you would sâ—me to reioyce so much inâ—ia in déede as coÌ„fortable to vs as you would haue men thinke that it is to you We knowe that the Spirite of trueth departeth not from Christe in his members the Church the true and vnfeyned Catholique Church Neyther doo the wordes that the heauenly Father put into the mouth of Christ his onely begotten Sonne depart out of his mouth the true Catholique Church and yet dare not we make that Church Iudge of that worde For they were not put into her mouth to that ende that shée should iudge them but that shée should in all her doinges be iudged tryed and directed by them As sottishe as you say our opinion is we are so farre from holding that euerie priuate man may haue leaue to be his owne Iudge in vnderstanding the Scripture that we doo not graunt it to the best learned but doo leaue it to him that béeing with humilitie of minde sought in the Scriptures wyll be found there yea euen by Crafts men such as was Peter and his fellow fisher men For he respecteth not mens persons nor Occupations And vnto them that so séeke him there whether they be many or fewe he wyll open the sence of vnderstading that they may vnderstand as much as he knoweth to be méete for them to vnderstand And such as haue that humble spirit wyll not search for nor shewe them selues destrous to knowe any more Well now you conclude vpon that which you say we must néedes graunt that is that the Church is our mother as Scripture sayth Well I am glad that you are now become a Scripture man But I pray you where is that Scripture written that sayth that your Catholique Church
necessary to be knowne to saluation euen by plaine scriptures And the rest I hope I shall be able to prooue in such sort as the Fathers haue prooued them against such as haue at any tyme denied them And first I must prooue that in the Godhead there be thrée distinct persons and but one substaunce This and the second that is that in Christe there be two distinct Natures and but one person I thinke I shall easily prooue The Prophet Dauid hath written thus Psal 110. The Lord hath sayde to my Lord syt thou at my right hande tyll I make thine enimies thy foote stoole The Lord shall send out of Sion the Scepter of thy power beare thou rule in the myddes amongst his enimies Thus much in the two first verses And in the fift verse he sayth thus The Lord at thy right hand hath wounded euen Kinges in the day of his wrath That the Prophet Dauid dyd in these verses of this Psalme speake of the diuine Maiestie and of the second person Christ it is manifested by that which S. Mathew writeth in his twenty and two Chapt. Vos quid dicitis de Christo cuius filius est What doo you say of Christe whose sonne is he c. The Lord. That is God the Father Sayde to my Lord. That is to God the Sonne c. Héere haue we two distincted persons the Father and the Sonne And in the seconde verse he sayth The Lorde shall send out of Sion the Scepter of thy power which is the worde of the Gospell And this Scepter was sent out of Sion by the holy Ghoste in the feast of Pentecoste when he rested vppon the Apostles in the shape of 〈…〉 rie tongues deuided So that héere we haue the thyrde person and so consequently thrée distinct persons The Father sayth to the sonne sit thou at my right hand c. And the holy Ghost sendeth the word which is the scepter of the power of the Sonne out of Sion And in the fift verse he sayth The Lorde at thy right hand shall wounde euen Kinges in the day of his wrath Thus speaketh the diuine Maiestie God the Father God the Sonne God the holy Ghoste one diuine Maiestie to the Church of Christe hée re milytaunt vppon earth So haue we the vnitie of the thrée distinct persons in the deitie And Christe him selfe expounding the first verse of this Psalme to be spoken of him selfe dooth a warrant vs that he béeing Dauids sonne after the flesh is neuerthelesse Dauids Lorde and therefore God And so bothe God and man and yet but one Christe For be sayth What say you of Christe Whose sonne is hée This might suffise to shewe that these two verities are not vnwritten as you do terme them But to satisfie you to the full looke what S. Mathew hath written in the last Chapter last words of his Gospell reporting the wordes of our Sauiour who sayth thus there All power bothe in heauen and earth is giuen vnto me Goe your way therfore and teach all Nations baptizing them in the name of the Father of the Sonne and of the holy Ghost teaching them to obserue all those thinges that I haue commaunded you And behold I am with you euerie day euen to the ende of the world Héere the man Christe receyueth from the diuine Maiestie all power bothe in heauen and in earth and by that power he giueth commission to his Apostles to goe and teache all Nations and to Baptize them in the name of the Father of the Sonne of the holy Ghost So that héere againe we haue thrée distinct personnes and their vnitie in giuing to Christe all power in heauen and in earth and the two natures in one person Christe in that he receyueth all power in heauen and in earth and giueth commission to his Apostles to teach and baptize If this will not satisfie you I refer you to that which S. Austine hath written in his booke De Trinit There shall you finde proofe vpon proofe that these verities are not vnwritten The thirde veritie that you say is vnwritten is that God the Father was neuer begotten It séemeth that you haue not read S. Peaules Epistle to the Ephesians for if you had you must néedes haue séene that this is no vnwritten veritie Saint Paule writeth thus Huius rei gratia flecto genua mea ad patrem Domini nostri Iesu Christi ex quo omnis paternitas in coelo in terra nominatur For this cause sayth S. Paule doo I bowe my knées to the Father of our Lorde Iesus Christe of whome all Fatherhoode bothe in heauen and in earth dooth take name I trow you will not now say that this veritie is vnwritten The fowrth veritie that you say is not written is that the holy Ghost procéedeth bothe from the Father and the Sonne as from one fountayne If you would reade that which S. Iohn hath written I thinke you would not say that this veritie is vnwritten Cum venerit paracletus quem ego mittam vobis a patre spiritū veritatis qui a patre procedit ille testimonium perhibebit de me c. When the Comforter shall come whome I wyll sende vnto you from the Father euen the spirit of trueth that procéedeth from the Father he shall testifie of me c. And in the twentie Chapter he sayth Haec cum dixisset insufflauit dixit eis Accipite spiritum sanctum When he had spoken these wordes he breathed vpon them and he sayde vnto them Receyue ye the holy Ghost c. If breath may be sayde to procéede from the person that breatheth then may we say that it is written that the holy Ghost procéedeth from Christe the sonne of God euen as it is written that he procéedeth from God the Father I wyll be bolde therefore without any more a doo to conclude that these fowre verities are not vnwritten but written in déede in the Canonicall Scriptures The fift vnwritten verity is the descending of Christ into hell this you must haue prooued by plaine wordes of Scripture the lacke whereof as you say hath caused many nowe a dayes to deny it flatly I am none of them that doo so deny it But that he descended in such manner as your Catholiques haue taught and as it hath bene set foorth in their Stage Playes and in their payntinges in glasse windowes else where I thinke would be as harde a thing for you to prooue any way as for vs to prooue by plaine wordes of Scripture that he dyd in déede descende into hell I thinke you wyll graunt that the spéeche vsed in the Créede concerning Christes descending into hell is figuratiue vsed by the figure Synecdoche wherein the whole is vnderstanded in the parte For you wyll not I thinke say that Christes body went into hell For that was buried and rested in the graue tyll the tyme that it was restored to lyfe againe Well Then it was his spirite
is our mother It wyll be harde for you to finde it I wryte not this as one that would deny the Church that is the Spowse of Christe to be the mother of Christians in that sence that she is the Spowse of Christe But I write thus to let you sée that I lyke not with your manner of concluding vpon this being once graūted That this mother of ours that must néedes teach all her chyldren fyrst to beléeue in God for that faith commeth by hearing and also to know the Scriptures and is the pyller and sure stay of trueth must néedes be the absolute Iudge and imperiall Schoolemistresse to teach vs all how to beléeue in God and to vnderstande the Scriptures This geare hangeth together lyke Iermans lyps as the prouerbe is If you had sayde thus The Church being the spowse of Christe is our mother and hath receyued commission from her husband and our father Christ to teach vs all those things that he hath taught and commaūded her to doo to teach vs his children to doo wherfore if we shall not hearken to her as to our chéefe Schoole mistresse vnder her husbād and our father so long as she teacheth nothing but that which our father hath commaunded her to teach vs we shall dispise him because we despise her as it is written Qui vos spernit me spernit He that despiseth you despiseth me If you had written thus a man might haue made some sence of your wordes But as you haue written you séeme to make the gray Mare the better Horse And to spoyle our Father Christe of all his power that our Mother his Wife may not be found with out absolute power I sée not therfore why I may not for this blindnesse of your heartes say as iustly to you as S. Paule dooth to the Galathians O insensati c. Oh you foolish fellowes who hath bewitched you not to obey vnto the trueth which euen of Infants and sucking Babes as it were is discerned as cléere as the Sunne So that you must not disdayne though Maister Trippe doo tryppe you in your owne turne as a séely seducer to maintaine as you doo all so grosse an opinion béeing the forrest in déede for all such Foxes to litter theyr whelpes in And héere you séeme to haue had one fling at Maister Foxe also because you vnderstoode that he is one allowed in the Kéepers warrant to haue conference with you I meruayle howe Maister Turnebull escaped your frumpping pen. But to conclude this assercion Acquite your selfe as well as you can why you should not all be suspected to be Antichristians for as much as you doo so stowtly mayntayne that man of sinne that setteth vp himselfe aboue all that is called God and sitteth in the Temple of God and boasteth himselfe as though he were God Whome the Lord shall destroy euen with the breath of his mouthe And that worde that you woulde haue to be iudged by your Antichristian Churche shall iudge bothe Antichriste and his Church And that holy Ghost that came downe from Heauen vpon our Christes Apostles hath remayned and dooth still remaine and to the ende of the world shall remaine with his Catholique Church That is with that Church which beléeueth holdeth and protesteth that Catholique Faith that Iesus Christe commaunded his Apostles to teach Catholiquely to all Nations and sortes of peoples in all parts of the world Promising that the holy Ghost should alwayes remaine with the faithfull to direct them in all trueth and godlinesse of lyuing Thus hauing first considered the wordes of our Sauiour in sending vs to the Scriptures saying Searche the Scriptures c. I haue founde that the conclusion that you make vppon the manner of speach that our Sauiour vseth in that place of Saint Iohn his Gospell is not Secundum vnanimen consensum Patrum that is According to the agréeable consent of the Fathers and therefore condempned by your Fathers in the Councell of Trent in the fowrth Session Saint Austine dooth accoumpt acurssed whatsoeuer is taught other then out of the Scriptures of the Lawe and the Gospell Lib. 3. Chap. 6. Against the Letters of Petilian And in his booke of Christian doctrine and the .37 Chap. He saith that without the authoritie of Scripture our Faith dooth but stacker or stumble And againe in his .166 Epistle he sayth That bothe Christe and his Church are learned to be knowne in the Scriptures Basill sayth that whatsoeuer is taught without the holy Scripture is sinne Chrysostome in his second exposition vppon Mathew sayth that the true Church cānot other wise be known then by the holy Scriptures Homilia 49. Yea Saint Austine in his first booke that he wrote against the Epistle of Parmenianus and the second Chap dooth accoumpt it to be rashnesse to giue credite to any that dooth not prooue by Scripture that which he affyrmeth I dare not therefore giue credite to that which you haue written tyll you prooue it by Scripture As for your sixe Reasons that you stay vpon I haue conceyued and doo vnderstand what they be And as in the beginning of your Pamphlet you desire so haue I taken Pen in hande and haue done what I can to confute them And as I thinke haue doone it sufficiently If you can replie doo you take pen in hande againe and doo what you are able I wyll not refuse to trie the trueth of these matters with you or with the best on your side Haec est fides mea quia vera Christiana Catholica Apostolica This is my Faith because it is the true Catholique and Apostolique Faith Robertus Crowleus Subscripsit Henricus Trippe Hijs quae à Domino R. C. responsa sunt ¶ A breefe Aunswer to Maister Pownds six Reasons Written by Maister Henrie Trippe MAister Pownd hauing perused the aunswer of Maister Crowly to your sixe Reasons and finding them sufficiently aunswered by that godly Father whome you thinke not to be worthy naming as you write to me I thought good rather to subscribe to his aunswer then to frame an other How be it to take from you the aduauntage of glorying which I thinke you will easily take against me as not being able to answere you I wil breefly vrge you in some pointes wherein I sée he hath spared you And first I must néedes shew you that all your Reasons are set one a tottering foundation because y e Iudge her selfe is not cleared of suspition for you take it as a thing graūted that the Churche of Rome is the spowse of Christ which thing is in cōtrouersie betwene vs. It had bene therfore an orderly procéeding to haue dealt first with that matter and to haue put it out of doubt that your Reasons in appealing to her iudgement might haue bene the stronger Pighius one of your owne men confesseth that the question of the Church ought first to be discidid Thus you builde vpon a false principle and ouerthrowe the force of your owne
Reasons if happily they had any force Secondly that which you bring out of y e fift of S. Iohns Gospell to prooue the scripture to be but witnes bearer to y e truth and not the Iudge though it haue some shew of reason yet being well wayed it well vanishe for you imagine because you finde the worde witnesse which is Verbum forence That by by you must haue a pitched Court a iudgement seate where shall be presented many persons in seuerall places one to be witnesse an other to be Iudge and perhaps some to be iustified and some to be condempned But if you had wayed other places of scripture you shoulde haue séene that the holy Ghoste admitteth no such straight collctions but framing his writing to our capacitie Useth some time one phrase and sometime an other And you might haue found where the worde is called a Iudge as in the twelfth Chapter of the same Euangelist If any man heare my wordes and beleeue them not I iudge him not c. He that refuseth me and receyueth not my words hath one that iudgeth him The word that I haue spoken shall iudge him in the last day For I haue not spoken of my selfe c. Now iudge you how soundly you haue gathered it is witnesse therefore not Iudge or not rather bothe a witnesse a Iudge So might you reason of the diuerse Metaphors giuen to the word which is called Bread Wine Oile Milke Hony Water Raine Light Fyre Golde Siluer Pearle and Iron rod Scepter Sword the breath of the Lords mouth Now were it not a fonde Reason to gather because it is the breath of the Lordes mouth therfore it is no Sword because it is a sword or Iron rod therfore it is not Gold c. Or because it is Gold therfore it is no bread when as the holy Ghost hath set downe those sundrie Metaphors to expresse the power dignitie and commoditie of the worde But this is none of your six Reasons and therfore the weight of your cause lyeth not vpon it yet in pronouncing your Treatise before witnesse you gaue it a greate force ¶ Now to your Reasons YOur first Reason is grouÌ„ded vpon a false principle for you imagine our church to be without a Ministerie to teach and open the Scriptures which is not so yea rather your Préestes are mute and not onely that but ye close vp the booke of God will not let it be read to make the Scriptures wholy mute least they might bewray your corruptions But God be thanked God hath opened the mouthes of many by the Scriptures to witnes agaynst your errors and so iudge you by the same wordes if you amend not Your second Reason pretendeth that the Scripture is verie full of hard déepe mysteries surely I confesse that the Scripture hath his harde Misteries and hard places but hath it not also his easie familyar doctrines Is there not meate for all Estates Milke for babes and strong meate for good stomacks But I dare be bolde to auouch that it was Sathans policie to robbe the people of the whole vse of the Scriptures vnder pretence of ambiguitie as though the whole Scriptures were nothing else but Rydles As for the tryall of harde places the learned haue set downe two excellent rules which I meruaile you can reiect the one is conference of Scripture with Scripture the other is begging of wisedome of God who giueth it to the Babes lyttle ones and hydeth it from the wise in their owne conceyte who stumble at playne places not being dyrected by Gods spirite But howsoeuer they labour to trie the spirites or whatsoeuer knowledge they doo attaine they leaue the suueraigntie of the iudgement to the word Your thyrde Reason grounded on Saint Peters testimony 2. Peter 1. Erreth in not considering what the Apostle meaneth by priuate or not priuate you séeme to place it in the multytude of personnes that giue the interpretation but the Apostle placeth it in the authoritie of the Author of the word Therefore one Prophete speaking in the Lordes name being truely sent from the Lorde is more to be beléeued then the whole packe of Préestes resisting of mallice or ignorance and they being many are priuate and one Prophete being but one is not priuate Secondly you pretende that euerie man may interprete the Scriptures as he lysteth which is a false charge But we desyre them and allowe them to reade the Scriptures and to sée whether those thinges which we teache them be so or no according to the example of the faithfull Acts. 17. And as they are commaunded by Christe and the Apostle 1. Iohn 4. In your fowrth Reason whyle you went about to temper our pride as you say it séemeth you disteÌ„pered your own wits in putting downe so many things in y e name of vnwritten verities which notwithstaÌ„ding are written you aske of the matter when I suppose ye meane y e termes brought in by the Fathers to expresse the doctrine more plainlie As the word Trinity person and other to make plaine the doctrine against the Arrians Héere you were foully ouerséen And you would make as beléeue that the Church hath authoritie to poynt vs newâ— Articles of faith without warrant of scripture she was wont to challenge some liberty in Ceremonies indifferent things but you giue her power in Articles of faith Your fift Reason stumbleth on the false principle whereon you grounded your first Reason where you iudge no gouernment to be in our Church because we giue the highest rule to the worde gouerne thereby as by a most perfect lawe after which no newe Parliament néede to be called to adde or diminishe from it but all men of all estates ought to put to theyr hands to sée it executed and kept for the which cause if they at any tyme assemble the worde written is theyr direction Against your sixt Reason I auouch that he that appealeth to the iudgement of the written worde dooth yéelde a most waighty Reason to ratifie the sending of the holy Ghost to his Church and that it is the spirite of trueth For 〈◊〉 the Apostles were so mightely endewed with the spirite that they bothe taught and left in writing the whole CouÌ„cels of God enough to make the man of God perfect c Then the Church that challengeth the promise of that spirite wherewith they were endewed must subscribe to that trueth which they haue lefte written for whatsoeuer is not agreeablâ— thereto commeth from an other spirit opposing it selfe against the spirit of God which is neuer contrarie to it selfe Thus I haue bréeflie layde down 〈…〉 which I could haue done more at large but Maâ—ster Crowley hath giuen you matter enough and yet more then eyther he or I can wryte is set downe by Chemnicius and others whose Treatises you might doo well eyther to reade for your learning or to impugne if you be able ¶ Your well wyller H. T. FINIS Iohn â— The first Reason The secoÌ„d Reason The third Reason 2. Pet. 1. d. The fourth Reason The fift Reason The sixt Reason Titu 3. 2. Tim. 3. Luk. 24. 1. Cor. 2. 2. Cor. 3. Aug. de verbis Domini ser 13. 2. Pet. 3. 1. Tim. 3. Tom. 6. Mark 16. Phil. 3. Epist 15. De Bapt. Libr. 2. Cap. 2. Ephe. 6. 1. Cor. 11. De Trini Libr. 15. Iam. 1. 1. Cor. 11. In. 1. Iohn Epist Cap. 2. 2. Pet. 1. Sessio 4. Lyranus in 2. Epi. Peter Psal 110. Math. 22. Tom. 3. Ephe. 3. Iohn 15. 20. 1. Pet. 3. Ieroni Tom. 4. Mark 10. 1. Cor. 7. Mark a. Apoc. 1. Collo 2. Acts. 15. Luk. 11. 1. Pet. 5. Tom. 1. Disti 16. An. 956. Vorat Plat. Plat. Volat. Volat. Plat. Psal 119. Esai 5. 1. Cor. 2. 1. Cor. 14. Luke 22. Psal 91. Alexan. 3. An. 1174. Math. 4. Sap. 4. Tom. 4. Esai 59. Esai 44. Iohn 16. Luke 10. In Asceticis