extremity for the doing whereof the orders that God hath set that it should be done in the congregation by the mynister of the gospell are broken Yes verely And I will further say that although that the infants which dye without baptisme should be assuredly damned which is most false yet ought not the orders which God hath set in his church to be broken after thys sort For as the saluation of men ought to be deare vnto vs so the glory of God which consisteth in that hys orders be kept ought to bee much more deare that if at any tyme the controuersy could be betwene hys glory and our saluation our saluation ought to fall that hys glory may stand Now in the 187. page M. Doctor answeareth heereunto that thys implyeth no more that the saluation is tyed to the sacramentes then when it is taught that infants must be baptysed and not tary vntill they come to the age of discretion Which how truely it is spoken when as the one hath ground of the scripture the other hath none the one approued by the continuall and almost the generall practise of the church the other vsed in the corrupt and rotten estate thereof let all men iudge Therefore for so much as the mynistery of the worde and sacramentes goe together that the mynistery of the word may not be committed vnto women and for that thys euill custome hath rysen fyrst of a false vnderstanding of the scripture and then of a false conclusion of that vntrue vnderstanding which is that they can not be saued which are not baptised and for that the authors them selues of that error did neuer seeke no remedy of the mischeefe in womens or priuate baptim And last of all for that if there were any remedy agaynst that mischefe in such kynde of baptisme yet it ought not to be vsed being agaynst the institution of God hys glory I conclude that the priuate baptisme and by women is vtterly vnlawfull There followeth the priuate communion which is found fault with both for the place wherein it is mynistred for the small number of communicants which are admitted by the bocke of seruice Touching the place before is spoken sufficiently it reasteth to consider of the number But before I come to that I will speake some thing of the causes beginning of receiuing in houses of the mynistring of the Communion vnto sicke folkes It is not to be denyed but that thys abuse is very auncient and was in Iustin Martyrs tyme in Tertullians and Cyprians tyme euen as also there were other abuses crept into the supper of the Lord and that very grose as the mingling of water with wine and therein also a necessitie and great mystery placed as it may appeare both by Iustine Martyr and Cyprian Which I therefore by the way doe admonish the reader of that the antiquity of thys abuse of pryuate communion bee not preiudiciall to the truthe no more then the mingling of water with that opynion of necessitie that those fathers had of it is or oughte to bee preiudiciall to that that wee vse in mynistring the cuppe with pure wine according to the instytution I say therefore that thys abuse was auncient and rose vpon these causes First of all in the prymitiue church the dyscipline of the churche was so seuere and so extreame that if any which professed the truth and were of the body of the church did through infirmitie deny the truth ioyned hym self vnto the idolatrous seruice although he repenting came againe vnto the church yet was he not receiued to the communion of the Lords supper any more And yet lying in extremitie of sickenes and redy to depart thys lyfe if hee dyd require the communion in token that the church had forgeuen the faulte and was reconcyled altogether vnto that person that had so fallen they graunted that he might be partaker of it as may appeare by the story of Serapion Another cause was that which was before alleaged which is the false opynion which they had conceiued that all those were condemned that receiued not the supper of the Lord therfore when as those that were as they called thē cathecumeni which is yong nouices in relygion neuer admitted to the supper or yong children fell sicke daungerously they mynistred the supper of the Lord vnto them least they should want their voyage victuall as they termed it which abuse notwithstanding was neither so auncient as the other nor so generall And there wanted not good men which declared their mislyking and dyd decree agaynst both the abuses agaynst all maner communicating in priuate houses As in the councell of * Laodicea it was ordayned that neyther byshop nor elder shuld make any oblation that was mynister any communion in houses Besides therfore that I haue before shewed the vnlawfulnesse generally of mynistring the sacrament in priuate places seeing that the custome of mynistring thys supper vnto the sicke rose vpon corrupt causes and rotten foundations considering also God be praysed in these times there are none dryuen by feare to renounce the truth whereupon any such excommunication should ensue which in the extremitie of sicknesse should be mitigated after thys sort for no man now that is in extreame sicknesse is cast downe or else assaulted with thys temptation that he is cut of from the church I say these things considered it followeth that thys mynistring of communion in priuate houses to the sicke is vnlawfull as that which rose vpon euil groundes if it were lawfull yet that now in these times of peace when the sicke are not excommunicated there is no vse of it And so it appeareth how little the custome of the olde church doth helpe M. Doctor in thys poynt And as for that he sayth Peter Martyr Bucer doe allow the communion exhibited to the sicke persons when he sheweth that he shal haue answer For wher he saith he hath declared it in an other treatise either the Printer hath left out the treatise or M. Doc. wonderfully forgetteth hym selfe or else he meaneth some odde thing that he hath written layd vp in some corner of his study For surely there is no such saying in all hys boke before nor yet after so far as I can finde Now remayneth to be spoken of the number of communicants that there is fault in the appoynting of the seruice booke not only for that it admitteth in the tyme of plage that one with the mynister may celebrate the supper of the Lord in the house but for that it ordayneth a communion in the church when of a great number which assemble there it admitteth three or fower the abuse and inconuenience whereof may thus bee considered The holy sacrament of the supper of the Lorde is not only a seale and confirmation of the promises of God vnto vs but also a profession of our coniunction as well with Christ our sauiour and with
can not be seuered is vsed for that that they ought not to be seuered when we say folowing S. Paule that we can do nothing against the truth doe we not meane that we ought to do nothyng nor can do nothyng lawfully agaynst it And do not al men knowe when we say that a man can not be separated from hys wyfe but for the cause of adultery that we meane he ought not or he cannot lawfully Therfore thys is as all men may see a mere cauill and triumph ouer hys owne shadow There is no brag of suffering made by the authors of the admonition The modesty wherwith he hath defended this cause cā not be hiddē That he wold haue other men punished for wel doing when he is not content that the open wrongs whych he doth shuld be once spoken of I haue shewed how vnreasonable it is Finally as you exhorte vs to submit our selues to good order whych haue ben alwayes and yet are ready to do to leaue to be contentious which neuer yet began to ioyne wyth you in preaching the word of God which haue stopped our mouthes and wil not suffer vs to preache so we exhorte you in Gods behalfe as you will once answere it before the iust iudge that you wil not willingly shut your eyes against the truthe that if the Lord vouchsafe to open it vnto you you kicke not agaynst it Where we pray you to take heede that neyther the desire of keping your wealth and honor whych you are in nor the hope whych you maye haue of any further promotion nor yet the care of keeping your estimation by maintaining that whych you haue once set downe nor the sleighty suggestion of crafty wily papists do driue you to stomble against thys truthe of God which toucheth the gouernement of hys churche and the purging of those corruptions whych are amongste vs knowing that you can not stumble vpon the woorde of God * but forthwith you run your selfe agaynst Christ whych is the rocke And you knowe that he will not geue backe but breaketh all to fytters whatsoeuer he be that rusheth agaynst him And if the matter heerein alledged do not satisfy you then I desire euen before the same God that you confute it not by passyng ouer thyngs whych you can not answeare or by leauing both the words and the meaning of the booke and taking your owne fansye to confute or by wrangling wyth the fault of the Printe or by carping at the translation when the wordes being changed the sence remaineth or by alledging that such a one or such an other was of thys or that iudgement as you for the most parte hauing nothyng but hys bare name haue done All whych things you haue committed in thys boke but that you confute it by the authoritye of the worde of God by good and sound reasons wholy and not by pecemeale And if you bring the practise of the churches we desire that it may be out of authorities whych are extāt which are not counterfait and whych were in the best and purest times And if you thinke that the credite of your doctorship or deanrye will beare out that which you can not answer your self besides that ecdicon omma is neuer shut remember M. doctor that light is come into the world men wil not be deluded with nothing nor abused wyth visards Neither let it embolden you whych peraduēture hath made you to presume the more in this boke to wryte any thing vpon hope that no man dare answer it For neither the Quenes maiesty nor her honorable coūcel as we are persuaded wil deale so sharply wyth those whom they know to be faithfull lawfull subiects whych pray that all the treasures of Gods wisedom may be powred vpon them neither haue we cause to thinke but that as the euill opinion whych is in part conceyued of vs hathe growne vpon false vntrue informations which you and such other haue geuen in crying in their eares that we be anabaptists conspired with papists puretanes Donatists bringers in of cōfusion anarchie enemies to ciuil gouernment and I knowe not what euen so whē her maiesty their honors shal vnderstand how far we are from those wicked opinions they will leaue that opinion of vs and rather esteme of vs by that we haue preached taught and now wryte then that whych other men report of vs being things which we neuer taught spake or so muche dreamed of Vnto master Doctors censures vpon the additions detractions and alterations of bothe the partes of the admonition BEsydes that oftentimes M. Doctor dothe accounte the expositions and explanations corrections he leaueth vs somewhat the les hope that he wil correct hys errors for that he pursueth the authors of the admonition so harde correcting their very smal and few slips which they haue made calling thys singulare modestye and commendable humility amongste other reproches dalying and inconstancye when it is oure profession euery day to learne better thyngs For vnto what ende should we lyue if time if experience if reading if musing if conference should teache vs nothyng And therefore when thyngs are Printed againe it is good and prayse worthy to pollish those things whych are some ▪ what rude to mitigate those things whych are to sharpe to make plaine and to geue lighte to those things whych seeme darker and to correcte that whych is a misse I thinke M. Doctor shoulde not be ignorante that wise men haue their deuteras phrontidas their seconde counsels and those also wyser and better then their first as that sentence doth declare I will therfore say no more heereof but admonishe M. Doctor that he receiue more louingly those whych correcte them selues seing that the best defence to hys booke must be not a correction here and there but a cleane blotting and striking out not an amending but a new making almoste of hys whole booke Other matter in hys censures he hath almost none at all worthe the answearing sauing that he hathe a place or two whych touch the matters before entreated of For whereas he accuseth the authors of the admonition in the first leafe as though they should condemne Doctors and bachellers of diuinitie and so bryng in confusion of degrees he vpon the. 5. leafe confesseth that they allowe of a Doctor Althoughe he that taketh away degrees of Doctor or Bachelor of Diuinitie dothe not bryng in confusion nor taketh not away all degrees of schooles especially seeing they are nowe made bare names wythout any offices and oftentimes they are admitted to these degrees whych neyther can nor will teache Vnto the seconde leafe of the addition of the second parte of the admonition master D. saith that because the third to Titus maketh not against reading therfore it maketh not against reading ministers that is ministers that can doe nothyng but reade And wheras he would picke out a contradiction in the words of the admonition because they say bare
of the poore or of the vniuersitie and that that exces is the cause of diuers disorders in those persons that haue it but that they could not preache truely when they preached whych had great liuings I for my part neuer heard it I thinke you would not be exempted from reprehension of that wherin you fault and therfore I knowe not what you meane by these words the they did not those things them selues which they taught others we profes no such perfection in our liues but that we are oftentimes behinde a great deale in doing of that whych is taught to be our dueties to doe and therefore thinke it necessary that we should be reprehended and shewed our faultes Whereas you say that the Anabaptists accused the ministers for geuing too much to the Magistrates I haue shewed what we geue and if it be too little shew vs and we will amend our fault I assure you it greueth me and I am euen in the beginning weary of turning vp thys dunge and refuting so vaine and friuolous slaunders wythout all shewe and face of truthe and therfore I will be breefe in the rest To the thirde We praise God for this reformation so farre forthe as it is agreeable vnto the word of God we are glad the word of God is preached that the sacraments are ministred that whych is wanting we desire it may be added that whych is ouermuche cutte of and we are not ashamed to profes that we desire it may be done according to the institution of the churches in the Apostles time You your selfe confes that excommunication is abused that no amendment of life appeareth since the preaching of the gospel is an old and generall complaint of all godly ministers in all churches and in all tunes * Esay preached this in the church and of the whole churche and further that they brought for the rotten frute Dauid that the faithfull people were deminished out of the lād that there was none that did good no not one And diuers other of the Prophets haue made greuouser complaints and great charges against the people of God and yet were no Anabaptists nor in the way to Anabaptisme If there be none that eyther haue wrytten or spoken that the church of England is no more the true Churche of Christ then the papisticall churche then besides that there is no truthe in youre tongue there seemeth to be no shame in your forheade if there be any it standeth your good name in hand that you bring them out To the fourth If some of those whych fauor this cause haue ben ouercaryed in part to do things which might haue ben more cōueniently ordered it is against reason that you should therfore charge those which fauor thys cause that you oppugne You would thinke you had wrong if because some of those that fauor that which you fauor in this matter be either free wil men or hold consubstantiation in the Sacrament you shuld be chalenged as free will men or maintainers of consubstantiation If those metings whych they had were permitted vnto them by them that haue authoritie I see nothing why they may not seeke to serue God in puritie and les mixture of hurtfull ceremonies If they were not permitted yet your name of conuenticles whych agreed to the Anabaptists is too lighte and contemptuous to set forth those assemblies wherin I thinke you wil not deny but that the word of God and his sacraments were ministred take you heede that these so reprochfull speaches which you throw out against men reache not vnto God A softer word would haue better becommed you To the fifth I answere as vnto the last clause of the thirde article To the sixth We pretend it not but we propound it and herein we call God to witnes agaynst our owne soules To the seuenth If you do not these things which we say not we wil rather do thē with the Anabaptists then leaue them vndone with you Of our simple heart meaning in thē we haue before proteste◠In the meane season we wil paciently abide vntill the Lord bring our * rightuousnes in thys behalfe vnto light and our lust dealing as the none day Touching our sighing and seldome or neuer laughing you giue occasion after to speake of it vnto the which place I reserue the answer To the eight We are no Stoikes that we should not be touched with the feeling of our grefes if our complaintes be excessiue shewe them and we will abridge them What errors we defend and how you maintaine your part by the word of God it will appeare in the discourse of your boke To the ninthe Their finding fault wythout cause in the ceremonies of baptisme can not barre vs from finding fault where there is cause We allowe of the baptisme of children and hope throughe the goodnes of God that it shall be farre from vs euer to condemne it But to let your slaunderous tong go all the strings wherof ye seme to haue losed that it may the more frely be throwne out and walke against the innocent Where where is the modesty you require in other of not entring to iudge of things vnknowne which dare insinuate to the magistrate that it is lyke they will condemne childrens baptisme which doe baptise them preach they should he baptized and whych did neuer by sillable letter or countenaunce mislike of their baptisme To the. 10. 11. and. 12. I answer as vnto the fifth and for further answer I will refer the reader to those places where occasion shall be geuen to speake of these thyngs againe To the. 13. This is a braunch of the. 8. and added for nothing else but to make vp the tale To the. 14. We feare no shedding of bloud in her maiesties dayes for maintaining that whych we hope we shal be able to proue out of the word of God and wherin we agree with the best reformed churches but certaine of the things which we stād vpon are such as that if euery heare of our head were a life we ought to aforde them for the defence of them VVe bragge not of any the least abilitie of suffering but in the feare of God we hope of the assistance of God his holy spirite to abide whatsoeuer he shall thinke good to try vs with either for profession of thys or any other hys truth whatsoeuer To the. 15. VVe make no seperation from the church we go about to seperate all those thyngs that offend in the church to the end that we being all knit to the sincere truth of the gospell might afterwards in the same bond of truth be more nearely and closely ioyned together VVe endeuor that euery church hauing a lawfull pastor whych is able to instruct all myght be ranged to their proper churches wheras diuers onles they go to other then their owne parishes are like to heare few sermons in the yeare so farre are we from withdrawing men from their ordinary churches and pastors Let
establishment of the common wealth must be pretēded What haue you forgotten that whych you sayd in the beginning that you accused none but suspected certaine woulde you haue the sword to be drawne vpon your suspitions But now you see that they whō you haue accused are nothing like eyther Anabaptists Donatists or Papists and your selfe most vnlike vnto hym that you profes to be and now you see that all your slaunders are quēched by the innocencye as it were by water of those men whom you so hainously accuse you are to be put in minde of the law of God whych decreeth that he whych accuseth an other if he proue it not shall suffer the punishment which he should haue done agaynst whom the accusation had ben iustly proued The Romaines did nourish in Capitolio certain dogs and geese whych by their barking and gagling should geue warning in the night of theeues that entred in but if they cried in the day time when there was no suspition and when men came in to worship then their legs were broken because they cried when there was no cause If therfore he haue accused iustly then he is worthy to haue hys diet allowed hym of the commō charges But if otherwise we desire not that his legs may be broken as theirs were But thys we humbly craue that if thys oure answer doe not sufficiently purge vs that we may be sifted and searched nearer that if we nourishe any suche monstrnous opinions as are surmised we may haue the reward of them if we do not then at the least we may haue the good abearing against such slaunderous tongues seeing that God hath not only committed vnto the magistrate the safetye of our goods and life but also the preseruation of our honest reporte ¶ The Replie vnto the Answere of the Preface IT may be sayde vnto you that whych Aristotle sayde of a certaine Philosopher that he knewe not his owne voice For if that you had remembred that which you do so often promis that you will not answer words but matter the Printer should not haue gained so much men should not haue bestowed so much money of a thing not of so great value nor that which is more the world shuld not be burdened wyth vnprofitable writings For how often tunninges out haue you to drawe the authors of the Admonition into hatred by inucighing bitterly agaynst their vnlearnednes maliciousnesse c. as it pleaseth you to terme it so that if there were any excesse of speache in them you haue payed it agayne with measure pressed downe running ouer How often charge you them with pride arrogancie men that confesse once or twyse of them selues their want of skill and which professe nothing of them selues but only a bare and naked knowledge of the truth which may be done with modesty euen of them which haue no learning And yet those that know them know that they are neyther voyde of the knowledge of the tongues nor of the liberall Artes albeit they do not make so many wordes of it as you * Salomon sayth that he that is despised and hath but one seruaunt is better then he which magnifyeth and setteth out him selfe and yet wanteth breade Whereby he meaneth that the man that hath but a little and caryeth hys countenaunce accordingly is much more to be estemed then he which beareth a great port and hath not to support it These brethren haue not vndertaken the knowledge of Logike Philosophie and other schoole learning whereof notwithstanding they are not destitute you in so often reproching them with the ignoraunce of them would make vs beleeue that you are so notable a Logician Philosopher as if Logike Philosophie had bene borne with you should dye with you when as it may appeare partly by that which hath bene spoken and partly by those things that wil fall out hereafter that you are better acquainted with the names of Logike and Philosophie then with any sounde or substantiall knowledge of them But let that be the vniuersities iudgement where you haue bene brought vp and are best knowne To returne to your vnprofitable excursions how oftentimes in your boke do you pull at the magistrates sworde and what sworde you would haue I leaue to the consideration of all men seing you are not satisfied with their imprisonment whereuppon also doth ensue the expence of that which they haue What matter is in all these that bringeth any helpe to the decision of these causes that are in question betwene vs how many leaues haue you wasted in confuting of the quotations which you say are vaine foolish vnlearned and to no purpose of that for which they are alleaged And if they be so where learned you to spend so much time about them Dyd you neuer learne that spoude ta me spoudes axia elegchein tôn atopôn esti to confute trifeling things seriously is a poynt of those which haue no iudgement to know what is meete for the tyme and place and other such circumstances If I should of the other side nowe go aboute to maintayne euery place to be not vnfitly quoted vnto that ende wherefore it is alleadged and shew how vniust your reprehensions are and how small cause you haue to leade them oftentimes so gloriously in triumph as you do which I assure you I could do in the most places As what could be more fitly alleaged to induce to reade the booke then that they should * try all things what more fitly to holde men from rashe condemning of things then that they shuld be * slow to speake what more fitly to moue that they should not misselike of the goodnes of the cause for the simplicitie or base degree of them that defend it then that we * should not haue the fayth of our Lord Iesus Christ in respect of persons and what more vniustly done then that you should whippe them for the printers faulte in putting one place for an other If I say I should thus go about to make good euery place how euill should I deserue either of learning or of the truth it selfe in blotting of much paper whereby no profit would come to the reader And if the dayes of a man were as many as the dayes of an Oke I would neither willingly trouble nor be troubled with such strife of wordes Seeing therefore God hath shut vs in so narow termes me thinke men should haue conscience of pestoring the world with such vnprofitable treatises Therefore all these and whatsoeuer else wandering words I shall meete with in this booke I meane by God his grace as dead things and nothing worth to bury with silence and will answere to those things which touch the matters that lye in controuersie betwene vs And as for the vnlearnednes blind zeale malice intolerable pride contempt of al good orders and twentie such more things wherwith M. Doctor chargeth vs if our life cōuersation doth not confute thē sufficiently our words
eldershyp excommunication and the office of Deacons as it is thought for that the Saduces of whome so often mention is made in the gospell are thought to haue had that offyce to prouide for the poore for those that know the Hebrew tongue doe vnderstand that tsaddikim and tsedacah do not only signifie iustice and iust men but also almes and almes men I say these and others more translated from the law vnto the gospell but neyther you nor your Clement shall euer be able to shew that the Lord euer translated any thing from Gentelisme into the gospell We reade in the Actes that all the Gentiles were commaunded to conforme them selues vnto the Iewes in the abstayning from bloude and strangled meate for a tyme but we can neuer finde that the Iewes were commaunded to conforme them to the Gentiles in their ceremonies the reason wherof is because the one was sometymes the law of God and therefore he that had conscience in it was to be borne with and the other came from men and out of their forge which the Lord would neuer geue so much honor vnto as to make other men by any meanes subiect vnto them But what if there were no such offices amongst the Gentiles Paganes as Archiflamines or Protoflamines whereof before I shew the coniectures which I haue I must geue the gentle reader to vnderstand that I am not ignorant that there are diuers which say there were such offices amongst the Gentiles and namely heere in Englande that there were 25. Flamines and three Archiflamines wherof were made three archbyshops of London Canterbury and Yorke and. 25. Bishops as Platine hath in the chapter Eleutherius And Galfridus Monemutensis in hys seconde booke and first chapter And Lumbarde in hys fourthe booke speaketh of it as of a generall thing that was in all places where Paganisme was But if so be that the relygion of other Paganes dyd follow and was lyke vnto that of the Romaines which is very probable they being then the rulers of the whole worlde in a maner vnto whose example all men doe lightly conforme them selues euen without commaundement then there is great likelyhoode there were no such archiflamines or protoflamines out of Tullie which sheweth that there was amongst the Romaines dyuers kindes of priestes whereof some were called flamines of a seuerall attire which they ware alwayes of their heades other pontifices and a thirâ—â—â— sort were called Salij and that the cheefe of these Flamines was called flâ—meâ—â—â—alâ—s who was also distinguished from the rest vp a white hatte but of any archiflamines or protoflamines he maketh no mention at all and therefore it is lyke that there was neuer any such office amongst the Paganes And if there were I haue shewed how wycked it is to say that Peter framed the mynisterie of the gospell by it Now let it be seene of all men how strongly you haue concluded that the names of archbyshoppes are not antichristian when as it is most certen that he was a piller of antichrist vppon whome your reason is grounded The tymes wherein Volusianus lyued declare suffyciently how little credite is to be geuen to hys testimonie which were when the masse had place if not so wycked as it was after yet notwithstanding farre differing from the simplicitie of the supper which was left by our sauiour Christ And Eusebius is of more credite in thys then Volusianus which sayth of the reporte of Dionisius byshop of Corinthe that S. Paule made Dionisius Areopagita byshop of Athens he sayth not archbyshop but byshop although he speake twise of it And in the preface before hys workes it is fayde that after hys conuersion he went to Rome to Clement and was sent with others of Clement into the West partes and that he came to Paris and was there executed whether so euer of these opinions is true that falleth whyche Volusianus affirmeth And if eyther Volusianus or you will haue vs beeleue that Dyonisius Areopagita was archbyshoppe of Athens you must shew some better authoritie then Eusebius or Dyonisius byshop of Corinthe and then your cause shall haue at the least some more coloure of truthe Erasmus followeth which sayth Titus was archbyshop of Crete whom I coulde answere with hys owne wordes for I am sure he will graunt me that Titus Timothe had one office the one in Ephesus the other in Crete but it appeareth by Erasmus hys owne wordes that Timothe was but byshop of Ephesus therefore Titus was but byshop of Crete For Erasmus in hys argument vpon the first Epistle of Timothe sayth that S. Paule did enfornie Timothe of the office of a byshop and of the discipline of the church If eyther he had bene an archbyshop or an archbyshop had bene so necessary as it is made hee would haue instructed hym in that also And I pray you tell me whether Erasmus or the Greeke Scholiast be more to bee beeleeued in thys poynte out of whome is taken that whyche is in the latter ende of the Epystles to Tymothe and Tytus where they bothe are called the first elected Byshoppes that euer were eyther of Ephesus or Creta For my parte I thyncke they were neyther Byshoppes nor Archbyshoppes but Euangelistes as shall appeare afterwardes But it maye be suffycient to haue sette agaynste Erasmus authoritie the authoritie of the Scholiaste And if heere you will cauill and say that the Scholiaste whych sayeth hee was Byshoppe denyeth not but that he also was an Archbyshoppe because an archbyshop is a byshop it may be answered casely that the Scholiaste dyd not speake nor wryte so vnproperly as to call them by the generall name of byshop whome he myght as easely haue called if the truth woulde haue let hym by a more proper and particular name of archbyshop And further in thys dyuision of the mynisters the archbyshop and the byshop are members of one dyuision and therefore one of them can not be affirmed and sayde of an other for that were contrary to the nature of a true dyuision And yet I haue a further answere bothe to Erasmus and Volusianus and whatsoeuer other haue written after thys sort that they speake gaue titles to those men they wrote of not according to that which they were but according to the custome and manner of that age wherein they wrote And so we may read that Vincentius and Nicephorus wryting of Victor speake farre otherwise of hym then Eusebius doth which notwithstanding wrote of the same man which they dyd The one calleth Victor the Pope of Rome And the other sayeth that in glory he passed all the byshops before hym which Eusebius neuer maketh any word of Euen so Volusianus and Erasmus lyuing in the tymes when as they which were the most esteemed in the ministerie were called archbyshops call Titus and Dyonisius archbyshops vpon whome depended the cheefe care of those churches which they gouerned There followeth Anacletus an other of these witnesses which
that in his garden he shall neuer finde the herbe that wil heale him And because that the scriptures when they make for our cause receiue this answer commonly that they serued but for the apostles times and M. Caluins authority will wey nothing as I thinke wyth M. Doctor when he is alledged by vs against hym I wil send hym to the Greke Scholiaste whych vpon this place of Titus sayth after this sort He would not speaking of s Paule haue the whole I le of Crete ministred and gouerned by one but that euery one should haue hys proper charge and care for so should Titus haue a lighter labor and the people that are gouerned should enioy greater attendance of the pastor whilest he that teacheth them doth not run about the gouernment of many congregations but attendeth vnto one and garnisheth that Now M. Doctor may see by this that Titus by the iudgement of the Scholiaste was not as he fansieth the archbyshop of all Crete but that he had one flocke whervpon for the time he was there he attended And that where it is sayd he ordained ministers it is nothing else but that he was the cheefe and the moderator in the election of the ministers as I haue declared before by many examples And it is no maruell although the rest graunted hym thys preheminence when he had both most excellent gifts and was a degree aboue the pastors being an Euangelist Vnto the place of Timothe where he willeth him not to admit an accusation against an elder vnder two or three witnesses I answer as I haue done before to the place of Titus that is that as the ordination of the pastors is attributed vnto Titus and Timothe because they gouerned and moderated that action and were the first in it so also is the deposing or other censures of them and that for as much as he wryteth hys epistles vnto Timothe Titus he telleth them how they should behaue them selues in their office and doth not shut out other from this censure and iudgement And it is more agreable to the inscription of the epistles that he should say admit not thou or ordain not thou wryting vnto one then if he should say ordaine not ye or admit not ye as if he should wryte to many for so should neyther the ending agree wyth the beginning nor the midst wyth them both And if this be a good rule that because Paul biddeth Timothe and Titus to iudge of the faults of the pastors and to ordain pastors therfore none else did but they Then whereas S. Paule biddeth Timothe that he should commaund teach that godlines is profitable to all things admonisheth him to be an example of the whole flocke by your reason he wil haue no other of the mynisters of Ephesus or of the I le of Creta to teach that doctrine or to be examples to their flockes an hundreth such things in the Epistles of Timothe and Titus which although they be there particularly directed vnto Timothe and Titus yet do they agree are common to them with all other mynisters yea sometimes vnto the whole flocke As for Epiphanius it is knowne of what authoritie he is in this place when as by Aerius sides he goeth about to pricke at the Apostle whilest he goeth about to confute the Apostle which maketh a distinction and difference betwene those which the Apostle maketh one that is a byshop and an elder and to spare the credite of Epiphanius it were better lay that opinion vpon some Pseudepiphanius that is to say counterfaite which we may do not without great probabilitie seeing Augustine sayth that the true Epiphanius vttereth all after a story fashion and doth not vse any disputation or reasoning for the truth agaynst the falshode and thys Epiphanius is very full of argumentes and reasons the choyse whereof M. Doctor hath taken And whereas M. Doctor citeth Ambrose Caluin and other godly wryters to proue that the mynister is vnderstanded by the word elder or presbiter he keepeth hys olde wont by bringing stickes into the woode and prouing alwayes that which no man denyeth and yet with the mynister of the word he also vnderstandeth the elder of the church which ruleth and doth not labor in the word But therein is not the matter for I doe graunt that by presbiter the mynister of the word is vnderstanded yet nothing proued of that which M. Doctor would so fayne proue It is no maruell although you take vp the authors of the admonition for want of logicke for you vtter great skill your selfe in wryting which keepe no order but confound your reader in that thing which euen the common logicke of the countrey which is reason might haue directed you in For what a confusion of times is thys to begin with Cyprian and then come to Ierome and Chrysostome and after to the scripture and backe agayne to Ignatius that was before Cyprian which times are ill disposed of you and that in a matter wherein it stode you vpon to haue obserued the order of the tymes But as for Ignatius place it is sufficiently answered before in that which was answered to Cyprian hys place for when he sayth the byshop hath rule ouer all he meaneth no more all in the prouince then in all the worlde but meaneth that flocke congregation whereof he is byshop or mynister And when he calleth hym prince of the priestes although the title be to excessiue and bigge condemned by Cyprian and the councell of Carthage yet he meaneth no more the prince of all in the diocese as we take it or of the prouince then he meaneth the Prince of all the priestes in the world but those fellow mynisters and elders that had the rule and gouernment of that particulare church and congregation whereof he was byshop as the great churches haue for the most part both elders which gouerne only and mynisters also to ayde one an other and the principalitie that hee which they called the byshop had ouer the rest hath bene before at large declared But M. Doctor doth not remember that whilest hee thus reasoneth for the authoritie of the byshoppe hee ouerthroweth hys archbyshoppe quite and cleane for Ignatius will haue none aboue the byshop but Christ and hee will haue an archbyshop I see a man can not well serue two maisters but eyther he must displease the one and please the other or by pleasing of one offend the other For M. Doctor would fayne please and vpholde both and yet hys proufes are such that euery prop that he setteth vnder one is an axe to strike at the other But that M. D. delyteth alwayes wher he might fetch at the fountaine to be raking in ditches he needed not to haue gone to Iustin Martyr for Proestos when as S. Paule calleth the mynisters Elders by thys title And if thys place of Iustin make for an archbyshop then in stead of an archbyshop in euery prouince we
let him as though there were some variance betwene the people and the minister or as though he were afraide of some infection of plage And in dede it renueth the memory of the Leuitical priesthode whych did withdrawe himselfe from the people into the place called the holyest place where he talked wyth God and offered for the sinnes of the people Likewise for Mariage he cometh backe againe into the body of the church and for baptisme vnto the church dore what comelines what decency what edifying is thys Decencie I say in running and trudging from place to place edifying in standing in that place and after that sort where he can worst be harde and vnderstanded S. Luke sheweth that in the primitiue church both the prayers and preachings and the whole exercise of religion was done otherwyse For he sheweth howe S. Peter sitting amongste the rest to the ende he myght be the better heard rose not that only but that he stode in the midst of the people that his voyce might as much as might be come indifferently to all their eares and so standing both prayed and preached Now if it be said for the chapters Letany there is commaundement geuen that they shuld be red in the body of the church in deede it is true and therof is easely perceiued this disorder whych is in saying the rest of the prayers partly in the hither end and partly in the further end of the chauncell For seeing that those are red in the body of the church that the people may both heare and vnderstand what is red what shuld be the cause why the rest should be red farther of vnles it be that either those things are not to be heard of them or at the least not so necessary for them to be heard as the other whych are recited in the body or midst of the church And if it be further sayd that the boke leaueth that to the discretion of the ordinarye and that he may reforme it if there be any thing amis then it is easely answered again that besides that it is against reason that the commoditye and edifying of the church should depende vpon the pleasure of one man so that vpon hys eyther good or euill aduise and discretion it should be well or euell wyth the church Besides this I say we see by experience of the disorders whych are in many churches and dioceses in thys behalfe how that if it were lawfull to commit such authority vnto one man yet that it is not safe so to doe considering that they haue so euill quitten them selues in their charges and that in a matter the inconuenience wherof being so easely sene and so easely reformed there is notwythstanding so greate and so generall an abuse And the end of the order in the boke is to be obserued which is to kepe the praiers in the accustomed place of the church chappell or chauncell whych how maketh it to edification And thus for the generall faultes committed either in the whole Liturgy or in the most part of it both that I may haue no nede to repete the same in the particulares and that I be not compelled alwayes to enter a new disputation so ofte as M. Doctor sayeth very vnskilfully and vnlike a deuine whence so euer thys or that come so it be not euill it may be well established in the church of Christ Nowe I come to the forme of prayer whych is prescribed wherin the authors of the admonition declare that their meaning is not to disalow of prescript seruice of prayer but of thys forme that we haue For they expound themselues in the additions vnto the first part of the admonition It is not to any purpose that M. Doctor setteth himselfe to proue that there may be a prescript order of prayer by Iustine Martyrs testimony which notwithstanding hath not one word of prescript forme of prayers only he sayth there were prayers He sayth in dede the auncient fathers say that there hathe bene alwayes such kinde of prayers in the churches although they do say so yet all men may vnderstand easely that M. doctor speaketh thys rather by coniecture or that he hath heard other mē say so for so much as that Doctor whych he hathe chosen out to speake for all the rest hath no such thing as he fathereth on him He sayeth that after they haue baptised they pray for them selues for hym that is baptised and for all men that they may be mete to learne the truth and to expres it in their honest conuersation and that they be found to kepe the commaundements that they may attaine to eternal life but is this to say the there was a prescript forme of prayer when he sheweth nothing els but the chefe poynts vpon the whych they conceiued their prayers If you had alleaged thys to proue what were the matters or principall poyntes that the primitiue church vsed to pray for you had alleaged thys to purpose but to alleage it for a profe of a prescript forme of prayer when there is not there mētioned so much as the essentiall forme of prayer whych is the asking of our petitions in the name and through the intercession of our sauior Christ without the whych there is not nor cannot be any prayer argueth that either you litle know what the forme of prayer is or that you thought as you charge the authors of the admonition so often that this geare of yours should neuer haue come to the examination But for as muche as we agree of a prescript forme of prayer to be vsed in the church let that go thys that I haue sayd is to shew that when M. Doctor hapneth of a good cause whych is very seldome in this boke yet then he marreth it in the handling After he affirmeth that there can be nothing shewed in the whole boke whych is not agreeable vnto the word of God. I am very lothe to enter into this field albeit M. Doctor dothe thus prouoke me bothe because the Papistes will lightly take occasion of euill speaking when they vnderstand that we do not agree amongst our selues in euery poynte as for that some fewe professors of the gospell being priuate men boldened vpon such treatises take such wayes sometimes and breake forth into such speaches as are not meete nor conuenient Notwythstanding my duetie of defending the truthe and loue whych I haue first towardes God and then towards my countrey constraineth me being thus prouoked to speake a fewe woordes more particularly of the fourme of prayer that when the blemishes thereof doe appeare it may please the Queenes maiestie and her honourable Councell wyth those of the Parliamente whome the Lorde hathe vsed as singulare instrumentes to deliuer thys realme from the hotte furnaice and iron yoke of the popishe Egipte to procure also that the corruptions whych we haue broughte from them as those wysh whych we being so deepely dide and stained haue not so easely shaken
doe helpe to nourish the fayth which commeth by preaching yet thys is geuen to the preaching cath exochen that is by excellency and for that it is the excellentest and most ordinary meanes to worke by in the hartes of the hearers The beholding of the creatures the consideration of the making of the world and of Gods wisdome and wonderfull loue appearing in them doth nourish and strengthen fayth and yet may it not therefore in efficacy be compared to the preaching of the word of god And to know that the worde of God preached hath more force and is more effectuall then when it is red it is to be obserued whereunto the preaching is compared It is called a lifting or heauing vp of our sauiour Christ Lyke vnto the displaying of a banner as the serpent was lift vp in the wildernes As therefore that which is lyfted vp on hygh is better and easelyer seene of a great company then when it standeth or lyeth vpon the grounde or in some valley or low place so the preaching of the gospell doth offer sooner and easlyer the truth thereof vnto the fayth which is the eye of the hearer then when it is red The same also may bee sayde in that the preaching is called a cutting of the worde of God for as when the meate is cut and shred it nourisheth more then when it is not so so lykewyse it is in preaching and reading And that whiche is brought by the authors of the Admonition and so scornefully hurled away of Maister Doctor that S. Paule compareth the preaching vnto planting and watering is a very notable place to proue that there is no saluation without preaching For as the husbandman receyueth no frute vnlesse he both plant and water that which is planted euen so there is no saluation to be looked for where there is no preaching And to thys also may bee well referred that the preaching is called of Saynt Luke an opening of the scriptures whereby it is declared that they be as it were shutte or clasped or sealed vp vntill such tyme as they bee by exposition and declaration of them opened It may bee that God doth sometymes worke fayth by reading only especially wher preaching cannot bee and so hee doth sometymes without reading by a wonderfull worke of hys spirite but the ordinary wayes whereby God regenerateth hys children is by the word of God whiche is preached And therfore Salomon sayeth that where Prophesie whiche is not a bare readyng but an exposytion and applycation of the scriptures fayleth there the people pearyshe It is true the woorde bothe preached and red is all one as the fyre couered wyth ashes is the same when it is discouered But â—s when the fire is styrred vppe and discouered it geueth more heate then when it is not so the word of God by preaching and interpreating as it were styrred vp blowen maketh a greater flame in the harts of the hearers then when it is red The reason wherof is not in the word which is al one red preached but in y â— â—â— pleaseth the Lorde to worke more effectually wyth the one then with the other thereby approuing and authorysing that meanes and wayes which he especially ordayned for vs to be saued by Of infinite examples take one of the Enuche which although he had bene at Ierusalem and returning home was reading of the Prophet Esay yet he beleeued not vntill Phillip came and preached vnto hym which I neyther say to disalow reading of the scripture which is very profitable nor yet to strengthen the handes of the papistes which to banyshe the reading of the scriptures obiect the hardnesse and difficultie of the scriptures as M. Doctor doth most slaunderously vnbrotherly surmise of the authors of the Admonition but that it may appeare what a grose and a palpable error thys is that the reading of the scripture should be as effectuall as the preaching of it which God hath appoynted to be the especiall and singulare meanes to saue those whome he hath appoynted to saluation And what is thys else but to condemne the wisdome of God in ordeyning pastors and doctors to bee contynuall functions in the churches and in so carefully commending them vnto the church of the which notwithstanding there is no vse if reading be as good as preaching And although thys be very grose yet in the. 163. page where he goeth about to shew the profite of reading the scriptures in the church he is yet more absurde For there he sayeth that it may bee that some men be more edifyed by the simple reading of the scriptures then by sermons In deede if a man sleepe the sermon tyme and wake the reading time or be otherwyse deafe at the one and attentife and heedye at the other I will not deny but he may be more edifyed at the simple reading then at the sermon vnlesse it be in thys and such lyke case I know not how it may be tute that M. Doctor sayth And in deede it is as much to say that it may be that the meanes that God hath ordayned to bee the fittest and meetest to call men to saluation is not the fittest meetest meanes which a man should not once so much as thinke of without trembling and shaking euery ioynte of hym And now I thinke by thys tyme M. Doctor knoweth hys answere to hys second question which is whether reading be not preaching And if this be not sufficient that I haue said I would aske gladly of hym whether all readers be preachers and whether whosoeuer readeth preacheth for if it be true which he sayeth that reading is preaching then that is lykewyse true that all those which read preach and so a childe of 4. or 5. yeares olde is able to preach because he is able to reade And least he shoulde seeme to be thus euill aduised without some reason in the. 159. page he asketh whether if a man wryte hys sermon after reade it in the boke that readyng be preaching Heere is hard shift What if I graunted that it is preaching yet I deny that therefore he that readeth an other mans sermon preacheth and further I say that if there be any such as being able to preach for his knowledge yet for fault eyther of vtterance or memory can not do it but by readyng that which he hath written it is not conuenyent that he should be a mynister in the church For S. Paule doth not require only that the byshop or minister should be learned in the mysteries of the gospell such a one as is able to set downe in wryting in hys study the sense of the scripture but one which is apt and fitte to teach And the Prophet Malachie sheweth that he must haue the law not in hys papers but in hys lippes noting thereby that it is necessary to haue the gift of vtteraunce and Esay the Prophet saying that God had geuen hym the tonge
So M. Doctor wryte he careth not what he write Belike he thinketh the credite of hys degree of Doctorshyp will geue waight to that which is light and pithe to that which is froth or else he would neuer answere thus For then I will if thys be a good reason say that for so much as S. Luke doth not in that place describe the office of the pastor or byshoppe which preacheth the woorde therefore that place proueth not that in euery congregation there should be a byshop or a pastor Besides that M. Doctor taketh vp the authors of the Admonition for reasoning negatiuely of the testimony of all the scriptures and yet hee reasoneth negatiuely of one only sentence in the scripture For he would conclude that for so much as there is no duetie of a senyor described in that place therefore there is no duety at all and consequently no senyor Afterwardes he sayeth that for so much as thys place hath bene vsed to proue a pastor or byshop in euery church therfore it can not be vsed to proue these elders so that sayeth he there must needes be eyther a contradiction or else a falsification The place is rightly alledged for both the one and the other and yet neyther contradiction to them selues nor falsification of the place but only a must before M. Doctors eyes which will not let hym see a playne and euident truth which is that the word elder is generall and comprehendeth both those elders which teach and gouerne and those which gouerne only as hath bene shewed out of S. Paule And whereas M. Doctor sayeth that the place of the Corinthes may bee vnderstanded of cyuill magistrates of preaching mynisters of gouernoures of the whole churche and not of euery particulare churche and fynally any thing rather then that wherof it is in deede vnderstanded I say first that he styll stumbleth at one stone which is that he can not put a difference betwene the church and common wealth and so betwene the church officers which he there speaketh of and the officers of the common wealth those which are ecclesiasticall and those which are cyuill Then that he meaneth not the mynister which proacheth it may appeare for that he had noted them before in the worde teachers and last of all he can not meane gouernoure of the whole church onles he shoulde meane a Pope and if he will say he meaneth an Archbyshop which gouerneth a whole prouince besides that it is a bolde speach without all warrant I haue shewed before that the word of God alloweth of no such office and therefore it remayneth that it must be vnderstanded of thys office of Elders The same answere may be made vnto that which he sayeth of the place to the Romaines where speaking of the offyces of the church after that hee had set forth the office of the pastor and of the doctor he addeth those other two offices of the Churche whereof one was occupyed in the gouernement only the other in prouyding for the poore and helping the sicke And if besides the manifest words of the Apostle in both these places I shoulde adde the sentences of the wryters vpon those places as M. Caluin M. Beza M. Martyr M. Bucer c. It should easely appeare what iust cause M. Doctor hath to say that it is to daily with the scriptures and to make them a nose of waxe in alledging of these to proue the elders that all men might vnderstand what terrible outcryes he maketh as in thys place so almost in all other when there is cause that he shoulde lay hys hand vpon hys mouth Thys I am compelled to wryte not so much to proue that there were senyors in euery church which is a thing confessed as to redeame those places from M. Doctors false and corrupt interpretations And as for the proufe of elders in euery congregation besydes hys confession I neede haue no more but hys owne reason For he sayeth that the office of these elders in euery church was in that tyme wherein there were no christian magistrates and when there was persecution but in the Apostles tymes there was both persecution and no christian magistrates therefore in theyr tyme the office of these elders was in euery congregation I come therefore to the second poynt wherein the question especially lyeth which is whether thys function be perpetuall and ought to remayne alwayes in the churche And it is to be obserued by the way that where as there are dyuers sortes of aduersaryes to thys disciplyne of the church Maister Doctor is amongst the worst For there be that saye that thys order may be vsed or not vsed now at the lybertie of the churches But M. Doctor sayeth that thys order is not for these tymes but only for those tymes when there were no christian magistrates and so doth flatly pinch at those churches which hauing christian magistrates yet notwithstanding retayne thys order still And to the ende that the vanitie of thys distinction which is that there oughte to bee senyors or auncientes in the tymes of persecution and not of peace vnder tyrantes and not vnder christian magistrates may appeare the cause why these senyors or auncientes were appoynted in the church is to bee consydered which must needes be graunted to bee for that the pastor not being able to ouersee all hym selfe and to haue hys eyes in euery corner of the church and places where the churches aboade might be helped of the auncientes Wherin the wonderfull loue of God towards hys church doth manifestly appeare that for the greater assurance of the saluation of hys dyd not content hym selfe to appoynt one only ouerseer of euery church but many ouer euery church And therefore seeing that the pastor is now in the tyme of peace and vnder a christian magistrate not able to ouersee all hym selfe nor hys eyes can not bee in euery place of the paryshe present to beholde the behauiour of the people it followeth that as well now as in the tyme of persecution as well vnder a christian prince as vnder a tyrant the office of an auncient or seignior is required Onles you will say that God hath lesse care of hys church in the time of peace and vnder a godly magistrate then he hath in the tyme of persecution and vnder a tyrant In deede if so bee the auncientes in the tyme of persecution and vnder a tyrant had medled with any office of a magistrate or had supplyed the roume of a godly magistrate in handling of any of those things which belonged vnto hym then there had bene some cause why a godly magistrate being in the church the office of the senior or at least so much as he exercised of the office of a magistrate shuld haue ceased But when as the auncient neither dyd nor by any meanes might meddle with those things which belonged vnto a magistrate no more vnder a tyrant thē vnder a godly magistrate there is no reason why
for the excommunication By whych testimonies besydes the institution of God the practise of the churches in the apostles times appeareth manifestly what hath ben the vse of the churches touchyng excommunication as long as there was any purity in the church And it is to be obserued heere that bothe in thys parte of the discipline and also in all other partes of it as I haue shewed as in harder and difficulter causes thyngs were referred vnto the Synodes prouincial nationall or generall as the case required so if the elders of any church shall determine any thing contrary to the worde of God or inconueniently in any matter that falleth into their determination the partyes whych are greeued may haue recourse for remedy vnto the elders and pastoures of dyuers churches that is to say vnto Synodes of shires or dioceses or prouinces or nations of as great or of as small compasse as shall be thought conuenient by the church according to the difficulty or waight of the matters whych are in controuersy Whych meetings ought to be as often as can be conueniently not only for the decision of suche difficultyes whych the seuerall presbyteries can not so well iudge of but also to the ende that common counsell myght be taken for the best remeady of the vices or incommodities whych eyther the churches be in or in daunger to be in And as those thyngs whych can not be decided by the Eldershyp of the churches are to be reserued vnto the knowledge of some Synode of a shire or diocese so those whych for their hardnesse can not be there decided must be brought into the Synodes of larger compasse as I haue shewed to haue bene done in the apostles times and in the churches whych followed them long after These thyngs standing in thys sorte all those Courtes of byshoppes and archbyshoppes must needes fall whych were by Antichrist erected against thys lawfull iurisdiction of Eldership as the courte of faculties and those whych are holden by chauncellors commissaries officials and suche lyke the describyng of the corruptions wherof would require a whole boke of whych I will note the principall heads and summes First for the they enter into an offyce whych pertaineth not vnto them but to euery particulare church and especially to the eldershyp or gouernoures of the church and therfore although they should do nothing but that whych were good lawfull and godly yet can they not approue their labors vnto men much les to God puttyng their sickle in an other mannes harnest For neyther by the truthe of the worde of God dothe that appertayne vnto them neyther by M. Doctors owne iudgement if hys yea were yea and hys nay nay consydering that he sayd before that thys iurisdiction belongeth to the ministers And although it should pertaine vnto the Byshop as he is called to whom notwythstanding it dothe not appertaine yet were it not lawfull for hym to translate thys office vnto an other and to appoynt one to doe it when he lysteth no more then he can appoynt them to doe hys other offyces of ministring as preaching the worde and ministring the sacraments An other thyng is that in these courts whych they cal spiritual they take the knowledge of matters which are meere ciuil therby not only peruerting the order whych God hath appoynted in seuering the ciuill causes from the ecclesiasticall but iustling also wyth the ciuill magistrate and thrusting hym from the iurisdiction whych appertaineth vnto hym as the causes of the contracts of mariage of diuorces of willes testaments with diuers suche other like things For although it appertaine to the church and the gouernors therof to shew out of the word of God whych is a lawfull contract or iust cause of diuorce and so forthe yet the iudiciall determination and definitiue sentences of all these do appertaine vnto the ciuill magistrate Heerevnto may be added that all their punishments almost are penalties of mony whych can by no meanes appertaine to the church but is a thyng meerely ciuill Thirdly as they handle matters whych do not appertain vnto the Ecclesiasticall iurisdiction so those whych do appertaine vnto the church they do turne from their lawfull institution vnto other ends not sufferable whych M. doctor hym selfe doth confesse in excommunicating for money c. Last of all they take vpon them those thyngs whych are neyther lawful for ciuill nor ecclesiasticall iurisdiction nor simply for any man to doe of whych sorte diuers are reckened vp by the admonition and same confessed by M. Doctor I will not heere speake of the vnfitnes of those whych are chefe offycers in these courts that the most of them are eyther papists or bribers or drunkardes I know what I wryte or epicures and such as liue of benefices and prebends in England or in Ireland doing nothing of those things whych appertaine vnto them and of other suche naughty persons whych are not only not meete to be gouernors in the church but whych in any reformed church shoulde not be so much as of the church I speake not of all I doubt not but there be some do the whych they do of conscience and with minde to healpe forwarde the Churche whych I trust will when the Lorde shall giue them more knowledge keepe them selues in their vocations and being men for their giftes apte and able either to serue the Church or the common wealth in some other calling will rather occupye theyr gifts there then where they haue no grounde to assure them selues that they doe please god Now I will take a short suruey of that whych M. doctor alleageth to proue his offices of master of faculties chancellors c. First he sayth in the 117 page out of the Ancyran councel that there were vicars of bishops wher although y name be not foūd of chācclors c. yet there is sayth he the office What vicar s Paules B. may haue and in what case I haue shewed before where I haue proued the necessary residence of euery pastor in his flock But I will note heere how M. Doctor both goe about to abuse hys reader in these vicares And first where there were three editions of which one only maketh mention of these vicares he tooke that left the other which is to be obserued for that thys varietie of editions rose of the diuers vnderstanding of the greke word chorepiscopos which may be taken eyther for hym that is byshop for an other and in hys place or for hym that is byshop in the country that is in some towne which is no citie so that chorepiscopus was opposed vnto the byshop which was of some citie And if it be so taken then here is no proofe for the vicarse of byshoppes But howsoeuer it be it shall appeare that the names of chauncelors and chorepiscopos doe not so much differ as the offices and functions of them For it appeareth in the same Councell and Canon that they were like the. 70. disciples
not be husbandmen crafts mē c. yet may haue ciuil offices I thinke far otherwise that although neither be lawfull yet the one were more tollerable then the other For seing after the ministery of the word there is no calling vnder the sunne weightyer and which requireth greater exercise of the mynde then the office of the magistrate it is agaynst all reason to lay this heauy burthen vpon a man that is already loden and hath as much as he is able to beare It were more equall if they will needes adde vnto the weyght of thys burthen to lay some lyghter charge of exercising handy craft then to breake hys backe with the charge of a cyuill magistrate And whereas in the pollicy of M. Doctor it semeth a furtherance to the gospell to ioyne these together which was also the pollicy of the Idolaters as I haue before declared in the wisedome of God it hath semed farre otherwyse which I doubt not dyd therfore separate the ministery from thys pompe whiche is commendable in the cyuill magistrate least the efficacy and power of the simplicitie of the word of God and of the mynistery should be obscured whilest men would attribute the conuersion of soules vnto the gospell dew vnto the worde and to the spirite of God to these gloryous shewes And least whylest the mynyster haue the woorde in one hande and the sword in the other men should not be able to iudge so well in their consciences of the mighty operation of the worde of God in them For they might doubt with them selues whether the feare out ward shew of the mynister caryed some stroke with them in beleuing the word But M. Doctor sayeth that cyuill offices are not to be counted worldly affayres but heauenly and spirituall it is so and yet when they are compared with the ecclesiasticall offices they may be called secular offices for so muche as they together with the care of relygion procure and prouide for the things wherby we may quietly and commodiously lyue here where the ecclesiasticall offices are immediatly and only bent to procure the glory of God and the saluation of men and in that signification of heauenly spirituall which you take marchandyse husbandry and the handy craft be heauenly and spyrituall although not in the same degree All lawfull callinges came from God returne to hym agayne that is he is both author of them and they ought to be referred to hys glory so that if the mynister may exercise all thinges which be heauenly and spirituall you may as well bring hym downe to the plough as promote hym to the courte And whereas M. Doctor sayth that the office of a commissyoner is ecclesiasticall because it handleth ecclesiasticall causes I meruayle that he is so ignorant that he can not put a difference betweene geuing iudyciall sentences and appoynting bodely punishmentes which are meere cyuill and betweene the vnderstanding the truth of euery such cause according as the worde of God defyneth of it which is a thing common as wel vnto the magistrate as vnto the minister and wherein the mynister because he ought to be most ready ought if neede be consulted with An other of Maister Doctors reasons is that as kinges doe serue Christ by making lawes for hym so byshoppes doe serue Christ by executing lawes for him As though it pertayned not vnto the magistrates to execute lawes aswell as to make them and as if the magistrate were not therefore called a speaking law because by executing them he doth cause the lawes after a fashion to speake Thys is to deuide the stake of the magistrate betwene hym and the byshop yea to geue the byshoppe the best part of it For wee know that with vs the people be at making of the lawes which may not meddle with the execution of them And if M. Doctor say that he meaneth not hereby to shut the prince from executing the lawes then as hys similytude when it is at the best proueth nothing so by thys meanes it haltes downe ryght and is no simylitude As for Elie and Samuell they are extraordinary examples which may thereby appeare for that both these offices first meting in Melchisedech afterward in Moses were by the commaundement of God seuered when as the Lord toke from Moses being so wise godly a man the priesthode gaue it to Aaron and to hys successors And so for so much as when the Lord would polishe hys church make it famous renoumed in the world he gaue thys order It appeareth that he wold haue this to be a perpetuall rule vnto his church And by so much it is the clearer for that the Lord did not tary vntil Moses death but toke the priesthode away frō Moses which was a man as able to execute both as eyther Elie or Samuell And thys may be also easely seene for that in a maner alwayes where there was any good and stayed estate of the churche these offices were mynistred by seuerall persons and then met were mingled when the estates were very ruinous and myserable And if thys be a good reason to proue that mynisters may exercise ciuill offices it is as good a reason to proue that princes may preach and mynister the sacramentes For if the mynisters may exercise ciuill offices because Elie and Samuell being mynisters did so the Princes and Iudges may preach the word and mynister the sacramentes because Elie and Samuell being princes and iudges dyd so And so we see how M. Doctor going about to defende one confusion bringeth in an other As for Elias killing the false prophetes and our sauiour Christes whipping out of the temple it is strange that Maister Doctor will alledge them as thinges to be followed when he may as well teach that we may cal for fire from heauen as Elias dyd and being demaunded answere nothing as our sauiour dyd as to follow these actions which are most singular and extraordinary And if these one or two examples be enough to breake the order that God hath set by thys a man may proue that the mynisters may be fyshers and tent makers because Peter and Paule being mynisters dyd fyshe and make tents And truely these are not so extraordinary and from the generall rule as the other be And it was permitted in a councell that rather then a mynister should haue two benefices he might labor with hys handes to supply hys want withall When S. Paule willed Tim. that he should not receiue an accusation agaynst an elder vnder two or three witnesses he dyd commit nothing les then any ciuill office vnto hym And M. Doctor hym selfe hath alledged it before as a thing incident to the office of a byshop and therefore he doth forget hymselfe maruellously now that maketh thys a ciuill office And doth M. Doctor thincke that S. Paule made magistrates Or is he of that iudgement that the church in the tyme of persecution may make ciuill officers