Selected quad for the lemma: truth_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
truth_n	according_a	church_n	doctrine_n	2,019	5	6.0761	4	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A82508	A defence of sundry positions, and Scriptures alledged to justifie the Congregationall-way; charged at first to be weak therein, impertinent, and unsufficient; by R.H. M. A. of Magd. Col. Cambr. in his examination of them; but upon further examination, cleerly manifested to be sufficient, pertinent, and full of power. / By [brace] Samuel Eaton, teacher, and Timothy Taylor, pastor [brace] of [brace] the church in Duckenfield, in Cheshire. Published according to order.	Eaton, Samuel, 1596?-1665.; Taylor, Timothy, 1611 or 12-1681.	1645 (1645)	Wing E118; Thomason E308_27; ESTC R200391	116,862	145

doth 2. We allow the case to be much different For when we live under a Christian Magistrate inteuding and endeavouring Reformation we are raised up unto an expectation of having all the wayes of Christ countenanced and confirmed by his authoritie which would be a very blessed thing which we have no such ground to look for living under a Heathen Magistrate But how the case is different in your sense we understand not For the Christianity of the Magistrate or his piety and sedulity in intending and endeavouring Reformation cannot take any person or persons off from their dutie which they would be bound unto if a Heathen Magistrate bore sway The Magistrate and the Ministers and the people must each doe their part because each stands engaged for himselfe to Jesus Christ unto the work of his own place The impediments that come from any unto other cannot be a discharge unto any Would our Brethren in New England allow a Presbyterian Church Answer or but a new Independent Church to be erected in New England against the will and mind of the Magistrates and Churches there 1 T. W. to W.R. p. 31. 1. The question is not what they would allow Reply but what a company of people planted there which cannot without unfaithfulnesse to their own light be subject to any other government save the Presbyterian ought to doe Whether if their livelihood lie there and that they cannot remove they are not bound to keep Faith and a good Conscience what ever it be that they suffer for it 2. Our beliefe of New England is this that they would suffer the godly and peaceable to live amongst them though they disser in point of Church-government from them Because so farre as we could ever learn they never banished any but unpeaceablenesse together with desperate erroneousnesse was the cause of it Our Brethren at London I heare doe hold it at least unseasonable Answer to gather Churches now how their opinion and yours are reconcileable I see not If you had said Reply some of them did once think it unseasonable you had not much missed it But what crossing is in this which should need a reconciliation The Position saith it cannot be unlawfull the Brethren say it was unseasonable for that time Many things may be unseasonable at least in opinion and yet not unlawfull It may be the Brownists Answer Anabaptists Antinomians Familists and other grosse Hereticks and Schismaticks in old or new England doe also pretend the Doctrine and practice of the Apostles for the setting up of their Churches yet our godly and conscientious Divines doe therein oppose them If grosse Heretikes and Schismaticks doe so pretend Reply they must be found to be liers and so their practice will be found to be unwarrantable whether they have or have not the commandement of man yet this will hinder nothing but that those which not in pretence but in truth have the Doctrine and practise of the Apostles with them may lawfully practise according to it though they want the commandement of man to warrant it The false Apostles pretended to be true Apostles but the Church of Ephesus tried them and found them liers and rejected them and yet accepted of those that were Apostles of Christ indeed POSITION II. Seven eight or nine may make a Church In Adams and Noahs time there was not above seven or eight will you deny them the being of a Church What will you make of Christ and of his Family which were not above twelve besides himselfe and of the first foundationals of the Church of Ephesus which were about twelve The number in the first beginning of the greatest Church was small enough in comparison Acts 1.15 The case of Adam and Noah was extraordinary Answer there were no more in the world and therefore could be no more in the Church You grant in an extraordinary case seven eight Reply or nine may make a Church The Position saith not that more may not make a Church but if there be but so many the truth and being of a Church cannot be denied them We say further that such a number may but make a Church in the first foundation or while there be no more persons sitted for membership For when more Saints by calling offer themselves they are to be received and so the Church will be increased Acts 19.7 8 9 18.19 20. Adam and his wife Answer and first sonnes yea Adam himselfe was the Church if then there was any yet you hold not that two or three yea one may make a Church We conceive that the Church is Christs body Reply and that every body consists of members If all were one member where were the body How therefore one Adam could have been a Church we understand not Put this we hold that look how few have ever made a Church since the beginning of the world the same number may still make a Church And the reason is because God hath not precisely determined what number doth make a Church Cain lawfully married his own sister may other men doe the like Answer Have we not a manifest prohibition of such marriages in the Scripture Reply so that though sometimes they were lawfull yet now they are not lawfull But what Scripture have you against this that what number of beleevers have formerly been a Church such a number may yet be a Church And no greater number is required to the simple being of a Church Twelve are more then seven or eight Answer and an hundred and twenty are a competent number yet it appeareth not that they were called or counted a Church till they were more increased First Reply though twelve be more then seven or eight yet twelve is not more in the truth of constitution of a Church then seven or eight Is there more of the essence of a Church in twelve then in seven or eight Except you mean it so you declare onely in saying so that you can number twelve And if you so understand it we shall demand proof of you for it Secondly the Scripture determines not what number is competent and what not competent to the being of a Church How come you then so to passe your verdict about it when further you adde That it appeares not they were called or accounted a Church till they were more increased that is till those three thousand persons were added to them Acts 2.41 If so are you not then the more presumptuous in saying that an hundred and twenty are a competent number to make a Church Notwithstanding if you will you may see them a Church before they were so increased For they performed one great act of a Church in electing an Officer to be over the Church Acts 1.23 And when three thousand were added to them they came into their state and if their state were not Church state then neither were they made a Church by this addition for let three thousand be added to no Church and they are still no Church

alledged you say The Lord Jesus reproving the Angel of Pergamus Answer sends his Epistle say you not to the Angel but to the Church I adde not to the Church but to the Churches As you gather that the suffering of corrupt persons and practices was the sin of the Church and not of the Angel only so I may gather that it was the sin not of the Church only but the neighbouring Churches also It is like you intended a consutation Reply but it hath befalne you as it did the Potter in the Poet Horat. de Art Poet. amphora coepit Institui currente rota cur urcens exit qui amphoram instituens currente rota effingit urcoum For in stead of a consutation you have brought forth an addition otwo other inferences Now if you should unto this inference of the Elders adde a hundred more of your owne yet this will not prove that the inference of the Elders is injurious to the Text For still it may be doubted whether theirs or yours any of them all of them or none of them be true true inferences from the Text yea or no especially considering that the inferences you bring are of friendly compliance with that that you pretend to confute For you say not to the Church I suppose you mean the Church only for else you harp upon a harsh string in the ears of rationall men to say John writ to all the seven Churches of Asia Ergo he writ not to Perganus one of the seven but to the churches Now can you say the Lord Jesus writing to the Angel of the Church of Perganus sends his Epistle to all the seven Churches and not abuse the Text and yet must we believe it when you tell us that the Elders of New-England in saying Christ writ not to the Angel of the Church of Pergamus only but to the whole Church of Pergamus also do abuse the Text Again if the suffering of Balaamites in the Church of Pergamus was the sin of all the neighbouring Churches and that this may be affirmed by you without wrong to the Text then the suffering of them in the Church of Pergamus it self was the sin of that Church and this may be affirmed by the Elders of New-England without wrong to the Text. 2. But let us look upon the words not as they may afford matter of an argument ad hominem but as they are in themselves Two things you affirm 1. That Christ reproving the Angel of the Church of Pergamus sends the Epistle to the Churches We suppose you mean the other six Churches of Asia 2. That suffering Balaamites which is reproved in the Church of Pergamus was the sin of the neighbouring Churches also For the first 1. The book of the Revlation contains seven Epistles which were of immediate concernment in a distributive sense to seven severall Churches and many other glorrious mysteries that were of equall concernment to all the people of God These all being molded into one book as we said are sent to the seven Churches of Asia Now the Elders of New-England affirm that the Epistles sent to the Angels of Pergamus and Thyatira are sent by way of immediate appropriation and concernment for that is their meaning to the whole Churches of Pergamus and Thyatira Now if in this sense you affirm that Christ reproving the Angel of the Church of Pergamus sends his Epistle to all the Churches you speak to the purpose but not according to truth For 1. What a Pleonasme and redundancy if not a grosse Soloecisme in discourse and absudity it is in a book sent as an Epistle to seven Churches two severall times to mention them together vers 4. John to the seven Churches of Asia vers 11. What thou seest Rev. 1.4.11 write it in a book and send it to the seven Churches of Asia and afterwards to write severall things of a Heterogeneall nature to those seven severall Churches distributively To the Church of Ephesus write thus to the Church of Pergamus thus c. commend one condemn another admonish a third extoll a fourth threaten a fifth c. and yet that these severall Epistles should be of as immediate a concernment to all the rest as to those to which they are particularly directed 2. It will follow that Philadelphia was lukewarm with Laodicea dead with Sardis and of these two lukewarm dead Churches may be verified the Encomiasticks of Ephesus Pergamus and Philadelphia with many such consequences But if your meaning be that the Epistle sent to the Church of Pergamus in respect of that remore and generall concernment whereby it may be of use to all Christians is sent together with the rest of the Book of the Revelations to the seven Churches This though a truth will afford no contribution towards the making good of your charge against the Elders of New-England being that which they deny not 2. For the second it is undeniably manifest that the assertion of the Elders viz. that the Church of Pergamus was guilty of suffering Balaamites and other wicked persons is true yea the truth of this Text. But to have so much faith as to believe that all the rest of the six Churches of Asia if that be the utmost extent of neighbouring Churches in your account were guilty of suffering Balaamites and Nicolaitans yea even Ephesus and Philadelphia that are commended for not suffering those that are evill hating the deeds of the Nicolaitans and keeping the Word of Gods patience would require some further proof then 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 your bare assertion for the manifestation of it For if the rest were guilty why are they not blamed Why is the burthen laid only though it might be laid chiefly upon one Church when as the rest are guilty I suppose the building upon which you lay the weight of this roof is this These seven Churches were a combined Presbyterie and therefore as the government so the neglect thereof concernes all Answ If you may assume the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the thing in question as if it were the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 a thing out of question you may in time perswade the world that the Elders of New-England have forced this and many other Texts But to prove that the seven Asian Churches were governed by a joynt and common Presbyterie hic labor hoc opus est this is the businesse But suppose that such a common Presbyterie there were and that the Presbyters of all the other six Churches did endeavour the casting out of these Balaamites c. why were they then not cast out Could the Elders of Pergamus over-vote the Elders of all the neighbouring churches in a Synod And if all or at least the major part of the Elders of these seven Churches neglect why are the Elders of Pergamus only reproved Lastly we cannot choose upon this consideration but condole the sad condition of Presbyterian Churches which is such if wicked men be suffered in any particular Congregation in