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A62456 Just weights and measures that is, the present state of religion weighed in the balance, and measured by the standard of the sanctuary / according to the opinion of Herbert Thorndike. Thorndike, Herbert, 1598-1672. 1662 (1662) Wing T1051; ESTC R19715 213,517 274

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if hee refuse it The Curate indeed stands excused by the Law as to his Superiours and to the Church But what will the Law what will the Church what will the Curate say for themselves at the great judgement of God if it appear that a soul perishes by this defect in the Law according to the which hee ministers his Office And a Recusant in this case may say with truth that those abuses which I have taxed the Church of Rome for allowing it commandeth not That hee may possibly meet with one that is not tainted with those novelties of Doctrine But will deal faithfully with his soul in that exigent And therefore may hope that he sinneth not in continuing a Recusant out of hope for that help in this point which hee cannot expect by conforming And therefore that his sin not being visible to him in this point the penalties of Recusancy at least in this regard are inflicted without cause A Supplication for a full debate of all maters in difference Had I not proceeded thus far in setting forth what the justifying of the Reformation which wee profess will require I had not set forth the ground of that most humble supplication which I advance upon it together with a most earnest adjuration if it bee lawful for Inferiors in any case possible to adjure their Superiors to and of all Estates whom the forming of the Laws of Religion in this Kingdom may any way concern by the bowels of Gods mercies in Christ by the bitter passion of his Cross by the merit of his sufferings by that ●hope of salvation which they furnish all Christians with And if the good of this World bee of any consideration after so high concernments by the hope of his Majesties long and prosperous Reign over us by the blessing of his return by the peace which wee enjoy through the same not to think the restoring of Religion by the Laws of this Kingdom the work of one sitting of Parliament or Synod Not to think that a work of that consequence and difficulty can bee concluded and made up by any Laws that may presently bee provided by any humane wisdom Not to think the Laws presently provided so fixed for eternity that further endeavours for the perfecting of so great a work should bee thought derogatory to the authority of Law In fine according to that which I said in the beginning to think the Laws that may presently bee provided ambulatory and provisional till all possible means shall have been tried to put so great a work beyond all imputation of any visible offense Not thinking any pains a burthen that may shew reasonable hope of a good issue to so high a purpose For as there is just cause to think that there remains very much means to bee imployed with such a hope So the time now seems proper now that there is appearance of the restoring of the Ecclesiastical Laws of this Land for imploying the same For the means to bee imployed will consist in a just and full debate of reason upon principles agreed upon between the parties tending to reduce them unto agreement in such things as remain in difference This debate may well seem dangerous to peace not supposing any authority to govern it within the due bounds and to direct it unto the due purpose But supposing as wee must needs suppose all parties liable to that authority which the Law of the Land authorizes because that is acknowledged by all parties neither can the Secular Power allow thsoe whom it owns for Governors of the Church less then to govern and direct all dispute tending to satisfie all that question the Ecclesiastical Law of the Kingdom Nor need they desire more for a reasonable ground of hope for good success There can bee no ground to expect that they who openly profess the Laws of Religion to bee the sins of them that make them can think their duties discharged to God by being instrumental in the executing of them to the intent to them that make them They must needs think themselves bound in conscience to deprave and to pervert the effect of them to their own intent in an infinity of particulars which no diligence of Government can prevent or meet with But when upon full and just debate it shall appear that a change is refused them meerly because they can shew no sufficient reason for it upon those grounds which the common Christianity obliges the parties to acknowledge condescending to all that they can shew such reason for how can it bee imagined that any prejudice or engagement that may bee so honourably quitted will prevail above God and their Country to a defiance of them that carry not the Sword in vain I consess I can hope for no good end of any such Dispute The ground of resolution the being of the Catholick Church the first and chief point of the debate without supposing that sense of the Article concerning one Catholick Church which hath carried me through this discourse for the Principle upon which all mater in debate is to bee tried Nor can I take it for a supposition which they do admit of themselves But I suppose first that the misunderstanding of that which it demandeth being once cleared the truth of it will bee so evident by that reason which must satisfie for the truth of the common Christianity that all shall bee convinced of it by that which they allege for themselves as being the consequence of their own allegations Then I suppose further that it is the first point to bee tried as that which in effect contains more then half the trial of all the rest Which had it been agreed upon might have prevented all breaches And without agreeing upon it leaves all Dispute in Religion endless and without hope of conviction or satisfaction on this side or on that It is not indeed to bee expected that Recusants will ever become a party to such an action though no way concerned in conscience not to own those whom their Sovereign appointeth for Governors of such a debate Not because there would bee any appearance that thereby they should own them for their Superiors But because wee find them not disposed to own the obligation of their Christianity requiring them to concur to it upon those terms to bee more antient then any obligation of their spiritual Superiors to the contrary For if the Unity of the Church take place before the authority of any Superiors provided for the maintenance of it then is every Christian obliged to the due ground and terms of it before the authority of Superiors And therefore cannot refuse them tendered by a part though refused by a greater part And therefore cannot refuse that trial which is the due means to bring them to light though his Superiors refuse it And therefore their refusal can bee no bar to the effect of the action once grounded upon a supposition inforcing the trial by the Scriptures expounded by
to the Law of this Kingdom and the effect of it that the Worship of the Host in the Papacy is Idolatry Therefore wee must not receive the Communion kneeling if wee would bee commended for breaking the Brazen Serpent with Hezekiah I say nothing to the consequence though it were easie enough to say That the people committed Idolatry to the brazen Serpent till that very day 2 Kings XVIII 4. And to allege the Practice of the Catholick Church Who while there was appearance of offense did not make use of Idol Temples for Churches But when the offense began to cease As in the time of Honorius common reason obliged them to do it Let them pursue the consequence of their own reason That is let them mete by their own Standard and then they must pull down all the Churches in the Kingdom I shall prefer the wisdom of St. Gregory of Rome by whom this Nation received Christianity Ordering the Pagan Festivals of our Ancestors to bee converted to the Assemblies of Christians For if Christianity sanctifie not all times places and gestures that may pretend in common reason to advance the service of God Wherein differeth it from Judaisine For in Judaisme the day the place the circumstance prescribed by the Law sanctified that action to bee the service of God which it had been abominable to tender God for his service at another time or in another place or otherwise As rest on the seventh day of the Week dwelling in a Booth at the Feast of Tabernacles was the service of God according to the Law of Moses But to pretend to serve God thereby at another time had been to usurpe upon God and his power which gave the Law On the contrary the service of God according to Christianity sanctifieth all times all places all gestures all circumstances that can pretend to express to procure to advance that attention of mind that devotion of spirit wherewith Christians profess to worship God in spirit and truth Otherwise the Kingdom of God must consist in making a difference of meats and drinks in despite of St. Paul And for the same reason of times and places and gestures not for unity in the service of God or increase of devotion as all reason requireth But as the Subject matter wherein the service of God according to Christianity consisteth But I set aside this consequence though I could not let it That which the Church of Rome professeth is not Idolatry if it bee a true Church pass without setting this mark upon it The assumption who will undertake to prove Who will take upon him to shew us that the worship of the Host in the Papacy is Idolatry They who grant the Church of Rome to bee a true Church and salvation to bee had in it and by it may if they see cause spare contradicting those that take it for granted before it bee proved But they cannot take it for granted themselves A Church is a company of Christians And all Christians profess the true Christ And all that profess the true Christ profess the true God And professing the true God if they believe that which they profess they cannot honour any creature as they honour God For they profess that there is only one true God And that there is infinite distance between him and all creatures so that they cannot esteem any creature to bee God And therefore they cannot so honour any creature as if it were God Christianity supposeth the belief of one true God and the being of the Church supposeth Christianity It took away Idolatry in point of Fact which Judaisme could not do though it shewed reason enough to take it away And therefore let no man think it easie for a Church to build up that either by express Law or by silent Custom which the profession upon which it is built destroyeth Let us bee as careful as you please that Idolatry which is put out at the great gate of the Church get in at no back-door of it The true God of Israel and our Lord Christ might bee Idols to them that professed not one true God If they who profess the true Christ can bee bred in such ignorance as not to acknowledg the difference between God and his creature all their Religion may come to bee Idolatry in Gods sight however the Church bee obliged to esteem it For certainly some Witches commit Idolatry to the Devil though there bee Witches of all Religions And so there may bee Idolaters of all Religions supposing that men may act contrary to that which they profess But that is not the question which wee have in hand when wee Dispute Whether wee are to forsake the Church of Rome as Idolaters or not For it is the publique profession thereof that wee are to forsake Wee are not to forsake it for the actions of private persons contrary to that which they publiquely profess Now they which profess the only true Christ and therefore the only true God do necessarily profess to detest all Idolatry which the profession of Christianity effectively rooted out of the World wheresoever it prevailed And so doth the Church of Rome still as seriously profess as they who charge them to bee Idolaters And therefore cannot easily bee convinced to profess Idolatry For without expressly renouncing this profession they cannot expressly bee Idolaters without renouncing it by such consequence as may convince common reason that they contradict themselves and renounce all of them that which all of them profess they cannot bee Idolaters by consequence And therefore it is not easie to make it appear to common reason that they are Idolaters And so that wee are to forsake them as Idolaters because then it must appear to common reason that so great a part of Christendom doth by their profession contradict that which themselves profess They that separate from the Church of Rome as Idolaters are thereby Schismatickes before God And what will they that stand upon this plea say to me who pretend to have proved that the nature of Idolatry consisteth in that which I have said And therefore that the Papists are not by their Common profession Idolaters Can they pretend so much charity to me as to have attempted the answering of my Reasons and the rectifying of my mistakes Or will they shew me who hath answered them and so that they need not be troubled for me If they will not bee tied to this would they have the Law of the Land changed upon a supposition which I have destroyed and they cannot pretend to have restored Nay would they have it changed to no better effect then to make me and all that are satisfied with the Reasons which I have advanced Schismaticks in the sight of God allowing and consenting to the change that shall be made for their sake This were indeed an incomparable piece of charity to purchase peace and unity with them at the charge of answering for all the mischiefes which our Schisme with
Malefactor dying upon the Gallows that professed to the strengthening of his brethern that hee had overcome all temptation to repentance acknowledging that since his being in prison hee had been strongly moved to repent And that one of Hackets three conspirators when hee was come to himself continued to profess that hee thought himself in the state of Gods Grace all the while But I will go no further then the words which I have quoted in another place out of a Pamphlet written to satisfie the God lie party in Wales being offended at the late Usurpers proceedings which allegeth that wee are not to bee judged at the last day either by our Works or by our Faith but by Gods everlasting purpose concerning each of us by virtue whereof Christ being alive at the heart the violation of all his engagements to them by usurping ●over them as over others made no difference in his estate towards God Whosoever writ this I think I am duly informed that himself caused it to bee published But I am certain that to the everlasting infamie of a Christian Nation if reparation bee not made it is supposed to bee the sense of all the Godly in it And to the same effect my memory assures me to have read in one of his speeches That there are at this day inspirations of Gods Spirit besides the Scriptures though not against the Scriptures Now certainly that which a man hath by virtue of the Scriptures that is of Christianity can by no means bee understood to bee besides the Scriptures And certainly hee that presumeth upon any motion of Gods Spirit not supposing Christianity that is not supposing the Scriptures may by the same reason presume of his own salvation not supposing that hee believes and lives as a Christian The same is the consequence of a Position I will not say injoined by any party but notoriously allowed among us That justifying Faith consisteth in believing that a man is one of them that are predestinate whom God sent our Lord Christ to redeem and none else For how can hee think himself obliged to make good the profession of a Christian who thinks himself assured of all that hee can attain to by so doing not supposing it Indeed it may bee said that our Antinomians and Enthusiasts and other Sects among us whom no conceit without this could have seduced to their several frenzies do think themselves justified from everlasting by Gods decree to send Christ for that purpose whereas this opinion dateth Justification from the instant that God revealeth the said decree by his Spirit in which revelation they think that justifying Faith confisteth And certainly there can bee no reason why God receiving men into Grace only in consideration of Christs obedience should suspend their reconcilement upon that knowledge of his purpose which hee giveth them by Faith For what can bee more unreasonable than that God should justifie a man by revealing to him that hee is justified But the opinion is not the less destructive to Christianity because it is the more unreasonable Now it is possible that the effect of this position may bee stifled and become void in some by reason of other truths which contradict the same indeed and yet are believed by them not seeing the consequence of their own perswasions But those who besides this position do pertinaciously hold absolute predestination to Glory those I maintain are in an errour destructive to Christianity that is in an Haeresi● And therefore this Doctrine being such it is no way enough that it is no way injoined to bee taught but it is requisite that it bee disclaimed by those that pretend to recover the Unity of a Visible Church For there can bee no Church where any thing destructive to Christianity which the being of the Church supposeth is notoriously allowed to bee taught Now between these two points of our differences I am to observe a vast difference For this latter is necessary for all Christians to know as being the principle of all those actions which being just for the mater of them must render the men acceptable to God in order to life everlasting And therefore hee that thinketh hee can bee regenerate or justified or the child of God or indowed with Gods Spirit not supposing that hee undertakes and performs the profession of a Christian renounces the Article of his Creed concerning one baptisme to remission of sins But the being of Gods Visible Church consisteth in that Unity which ariseth upon the agreement of all Christians to hold Communion in the visible Offices of Gods service And therefore though it bee an Article of our Creed to believe one Catholick Church yet can it not concern the salvation of every particular Christian to understand the nature of that Society or Corporation which the bond of this Unity createth Nay even they who are best seen in that Government by which this Unity is preserved may well fail in comprehending the reason thereof by reflecting their discourse upon it In the mean time it is necessary for all that believe their Creed to think themselves tied by this Article to maintain the Unity of the Church according to their estate That is for every ones part not to bee accessory to any Schisme that dissolveth it And therefore to deny the crime of Schisme is to deny this Article The consequence of this observation will bee the difference which the Church hath reason to use in reconciling parties at distance from it to the Unity thereof according to the difference of those pretenses upon which they are at distance For those who have only disputed against the being of the Church upon misunderstanding the right of Secular Power which they think the being of the Church inconsistent with shall bee sufficiently reunited to the Church by conforming to the Law by which the Church is and was and may bee established For that there ought to bee provision against such disputes for the future it concerns not me to give warning Only where willfullness hath proceeded so far in maintaining a false position as to make no bones of denying Christianity and teaching Atheism by obliging to renounce Christ if the Sovereign command it it concerneth the Christianity of the Nation to see reparation made But where the Haeretical positions mentioned afore have notoriously been maintained especially where Congregations have been framed and used for the exercise of Religion upon pretense of them there will it bee absolutely necessarie that they bee expresly renounced and disclaimed either by persons in particular or in Body by Congregations To this head I reduce all Anabaptists and Congregations of Anabaptists Those of the fifth Monarchy and Congregations of the fifth Monarchy Quakers and Congregations of Quakers Nay all Independent Congregations in my opinion ought to bee reduced under this measure Not only because their profession is grounded upon the denial of one visible Church But because they suppose themselves children of God and indowed with his Spirit before