the Cathedrall and parishionall Assemblies can be assured by the word of God that they ioyne to the former ordeined by Christ and not to the latter devised by man even the man of sinne for the worship and service of God Now reducing our cause to these heads if it were so that I erred in one of them is therefore our cause betrayed Or should my particular error be imputed to the whole Church or reputed the betraying of our generall cause Is there not difference to be put between erring through ignorance if this were an errour and betraying with knowledge Or if this maner of reasoning which he vseth might be admitted who can deny but the Protestants of England and of all sorts have an hundred and an hundred tymes betrayed their own cause and overthrovven the very drift of their owne writings And if they think it not of weight against them for their multitude of knowen errours with what face can it be vrged against vs for one supposed errour 3. For the description it self which was given of a visible Church I still hold it to be good It was thus A true visible Church of Christ is a company of faithfull people by the word of God called out from the vvorld and the false vvayes thereof gathered together in fellovvship of the Gospell by a voluntary profession of the faith and obedience of Christ. This is the description which he would proue to be false partly by gathering my meaning thereof in other places of that other books partly and particularly by my judgment concerning the Israelites in Egypt spoken of in the Ans. to Mâ— Ia. pag. 47. Where before I answer him let me advertise the Reader that if there be any weight in this exception it was found out not by Th. White as by his book might be supposed but by some of the Ministers in VViltshire specially by one Mr Io. Ie. and other his fellowes there who have bestowed much labour in reading our writings vvhether for love to the truth or that they might finde somewhat thereby the more to cavill against it let their walking and dealing shew VVhose disciple novv this White is become having heretofore stood as opposite against them as white is to black Now therfore to answer them all vnder one I will write somewhat touching this matter referring the further handling of it if there be need till some other adversaries with whom we haâ—â— to deale concerning it and the other heads of our cause give further occasion Two things as I said about this description are specially noted and vrged the first about the meaning the other about my vvriting of the Israelites in Egypt For the first the meaning is plaine by the words themselues and by the drift of that and all other of our booâ—s as may appeare not onely by the places here cited by him but by many other compared together and particularly by an expresse declaration annexed vnto it in our Apologie against the Oxf Doct. pag. 36.44.45 Yet now againe to explane and proue the truth of that description I will here treat a litle more thereof To esteem and describe aright a true visible Church we must look especially to two things 1. the calling of Christ 2. the covenant and coÌ„munion of the Church To Christ his calling like as the Apostles every where describe the Churches according to it As namely the Churches of Ephesus Corinth Rome c. For which see these Scriptures Rom. 1.5.6.7 1 Cor. 1.2.9.24 Gal. 1.6 5.8.13 Ephe. 1.1 with 4.1.4 Col. 3.15 1 Thes. 2.12 5.24 2 Thes. 1.11 2.14 Heb. 3.1 1 Pet. 1.15 2.9.21 2 Pet. 1.1.3 Iude ver 1. Now it caÌ„not be denyed but Christs calling of his Churches people is vnto the whole faith of the Gospell willing obedience thereof fâ—oÌ„ all evill iniquity that is any way repugnant therevnto therefore froÌ„ the false worship wayes of the vvorld whatsoever they be or wheresoever And herevpon did the Apostles reproue the Churches still when they fell into any sinne eyther against the first or second Table as not walking worthy the holy calling whervnto they were called in Christ and required of them also obedience to all the coÌ„maundements ordinances of Christ fâ—oÌ„ tyme to tyme. Therefore should White and his teachers have better observed that clause of the description aforesaid by the vvord of God called out etc. So might they have perceived if they had love to the truth both that the description is good and that the abberrations of true Chuâ—ches are so far from proving it any way false as they do in deed approue the truth of it in asmuch as the verie being of a Church by the calling of Christ requireth of them to walk otherwise Another thing that we are to look vnto yet also depending vpon the former is the Churches covenant and coÌ„munion This covenant is to be considered as made by them vnto the Lord and one with another to walk together in the truth of the Gospell in all the coÌ„maundements and ordinances of the Lord And therefore to forsake and avoid whatsoever is there against As may appeare by these Scriptures Exod. 19.3 8. 2 King 23.2.3 Esa. 2.2.3 14.1 and 44.5 Ier. 50.4.5 Act. 2.41.42.47 and 11.21.24 Rom. 12.5 2 Cor. 9.13 Ephes. 4.4.5.6 Phil. 1.1.5 Therefore also the description aforesaid is good And so might the adversaries haue perceived if they had well observed that other clause therein of being gathered and ioyned together in fellowship of the Gospell c. And what els is it that giveth the being to a true visible Church but the calling of Christ the Churches covenant according thervnto Wherevpon in a true Church may and ought these things following alway to be observed 1. That it hath Christ alone for the Mediatour that is for the Prophet Priest and King thereof 2. That it is to be accounted the spouse and body of Christ the househould citie and kingdome of God the ground and pillar o truth a Church of Saints c. 3. That the promises and pledges of Gods covenant presence blessing do appertayne vnto them in that estate 4. That it apperteyneth to Christ to remove his Candlestick take away his kingdome from a Church when and as he pleaseth 5. That every true visible Church hath authority and power froÌ„ Christ to receive in members willingly professing the same faith with them to cast out obstinate offenders from among them 6. That the want or transgression of Christs ordinances doth not simply or presently disanull them from being a true Church For example When a people are so called and covenanted as aforesaid though yet they have none in office amoÌ„g theÌ„ eyther Pastors Teachers Elders etc. they are notwithstanding a true visible Church And by their calling and covenant they have power in Christ as he giveth them fit men and meanes to chuse and enjoy these as any other of his ordinances Likewise
when as the one of them denyed the fact which she had before confessed to two of the brethren the other in the iudgment of the Church shewed himself vnrepentant many wayes which I will not here mention And if he do not shew them to haue repented how hath he proved that for which he alledged them Besides that there were also other causes for which they were excommunicated As for that which he saith divers of vs have accused themselues of adultery that so they might be ridde of their wives this also he should have proved and not onely haue said it For we know that the persons whome he nameth W. H. and T. C. haue said and avouched earnestly that they did it not to that end but being perswaded that they ought not to continue with their wiues having by their adulterie broken the bond of mariage between them Besides if by him or any it could be proved so to be as he saith he knoweth we would not beare with such wickednes but deale with them according to their demerit howsoever without all shame he do thus abuse vs. And here by the way let me a little note this mans crossing of himself and bad dealing against vs still Before in the beginning of his book he imputed vnto vs abounding with adulteries and that above others as if it were a sinne common and borne withall among vs and this also more then among others Yet here now his objectiō against vs about the case of adultery is such as any may see he thinketh we haue ben too severe therein and that aboue others What this our opinion was is shewed before Wherein although we have chaunged our iudgment as is aforesaid yet even this particular sheweth how greatly we haue alway detested that sinne and how contrary this White is to himself that he might by any meanes deale wretchedly against vs. 3. The third thing is that he saith we haue altered many things which we held in our constitution as among other that it was not lawfull for Apostates to beare office He saith many things yet nameth but one Towching which I might answer that although many of vs did in deed so take it yet it was not here so generally received by all as he seemeth to suppose because that as there was divers times occasiō of question about it there were of the brethren that shewed themselues to be diversely mynded but at length the matter being often and much vrged we did thus agree about it That we think it not meet to chuse such into office as haue before tyme declyned frō the truth without good caution first had thereabout As namely 1. That there be consideration had both of the nature of the thing done of the quality of the person of the estate of the Church 2. That the Church have good and due tryall of such being returned afore they chuse them into office 3. That with these cautions the fittest be taken into office whom God giveth in the present estate of the Church And all these things so mynded and observed of vs as if at any time a better way be shewed out of the word of God we be ready to receive it in the Lord. This is that whereof hitherto we have agreed about this matter the particulars whereof there will be occasion to set downe more at large hereafter But now admitting that the whole Church held it not lawfull for such to beare office afterward altered it as here he saith yet was this alteration but of our judgement and practise not of the Churches constitution as I haue shewed before and therefore his collection herevpon that we held false wayes in our constitution by consequent then were no true Churches is both false frivolous 4. The fourth he propoundeth as a question saying of vs What would it profit them to b◠free from false wayes in their constitution ◠their practise be not according to their profession But the question and point here treated on is whether the description aforesaid be true or not and whether we our selues be a true Church according vnto it If we erre in practise is it therefore a false description or we a false Church The Churches of Asia and Achaia erred greatly in their practise were they not therefore true Churches according to the said description But yet where the practise is not according to the profession it makes the sinne the more grievous True and therefore Tho White his sinne is vnspeakably grievous as all they do know who haue seen what great and earnest profession of the truth he hath made heretofore from which now he is grievously fallen But for our selues he asketh further sith their knowledg is but in part aswell as their love are not they aswell as others subiect to erre in constitution aswell as practise If he meane in judgment aswell as practise we graunt it and we haue alwayes professed it howsoever he write against vs as if we were such as professed perfection of knowledg and practise in this life from which errour himself knoweth vs to be as far as we know him to be from trueth and godlynes But if he meane by our constitution the way of God wherein we are set the calling of Christ with the Churches covenant which giveth being vnto the Church then I answer that difference must be put between the way of God it self and our weak walking therein between the calling of Christ together with the covenant of the Church our sinning and transgressing in our owne wayes notwitstanding between the Church considered in Christ the head thereof in whom we are washed from all our sinnes guyded in in the way of truth and preserved to eternall life and between the Church considered in the members thereof as we are in our selves every one sinfull and subject daily to erre both in judgment and practise And this not onely in the members severally but in all of vs ioyntly together If this distinction be not observed who can shew that ever there was or can be true Church vpon the earth or how we can haue true comfort in this life to our selves or esteem and discerne aright between things that differ as we ought And if it be observed any may see that all his exceptions against vs are of no moment It is not our knowledg or practise but our calling covenant in Christ that secludeth in our constitution all false and evill wayes whether as yet seen or not For which cause also I need not here stand vpon his needles and erroneous discourse about that which he calleth a shift though in deed it be a point much to be respected namely that a true Church must be separate from all false wayes which they see For as I haue shewed alreadie we ought if we will consider aright of a Church to look at their calling and covenant in Christ which is from all false wayes whatsoever seen or vnseen to the obedience of
was kept vnbaptized and for that we heard she had entertayned Ma. Sl. at her table who is a man excoÌ„municated by our Church whereof she was then a member For these things onely was she called before the Elders and for the first together with her apostasie from the truth which before tyme she had professed with vs she was a while after excoÌ„municated by â—he whole Church For the latter whenas she answered that it was her husbands doing without her liking and against her will though not so signifyed vnto him that her self gaue the excommunicate no countenaunce as approving his estate we rested therein instructing her onely how to cary her self in such cases for tyme to come exhorting her to be carefull accordingly to walk as by the word of God we have rule and direction Now for the hypocrite her husband himself whereas he saith here the Church of Christ do privately admonish a private sinne of a holy and loving affection how will he shew this in the Church of EnglaÌ„d whither he is gone or doth he hold it not to be the Church of Christ or that it is by some priviledg not bound to the ordinances of Christ Not to speak how himself by his owne mouth is condemned whiles he acknowledgeth that ChristiaÌ„s ought thus to walk yet publisheth he careth not what things private or publick true or false and that with a wicked and malicious affection Lastly from the officers he cometh to the people objecting against them vncleannes cousoning disgracing backbiting and vndermyning one of another amongst themselves But this onely in generall termes And so might any vnclean mouth and backbiting sclanderer traduce any people in the world Will he now then apply to himself to his practise and consorts in this work that which the Prophet speakes With our tounge will we prevaile our lippes are our owne who is Lord over vs Psal. 12.4 Why boastest thou thy self in malice ô man of power the loving kindnes of God indureth every day Thy tounge imagineth mischief it is like a sharpe rasor ô thou worker of deceit Thou lovest evill more then good lyes more then to speak the truth Selah Thou lovest all words that may destroy ô deceitfull tounge But above all mark now the wickednes and blasphemie of his conclusion of this point Which that it may the better appeare with lesse praejudice of others be regarded I will put the case in an instance of Iacobs family before Christs coming in the flesh and of the Church of Corinth synce Christs time and therein will alledg not things forged perverted and abused as this enemy doth against vs but true things onely and such as are recorded in the Scriptures themselves That the family of Iacob was the Church of God cannot be denied Now in it we fynd that Iacob having two wives and two concubines his wives envied one another Rachel stale away her Fathers idols Dinah his daughter was deflowred his sonnes deceitfully beguiled the Sichemites Simeon and Levi slew them in a rage Reuben committed incest with Bilhah his fathers concubine the other brothers hated envied and sold Ioseph into Egipt and coloured it with lving to Iacob their father Iudah lay with Thamar his daughter in law taking her to be an whore c Will now any man of knowledg and fearing God infer therefore herevpon and say Were these then the Church the Saincts the Israell of God Were these the fathers of the tribes of Israell so greatly renowmed through all posterity Were these the stones the precious stones embossed in the High priests Brestplate Were these the twelve Patriarks for the tyme of the Law answerable to the twelve Apostles for the tyme of the Gospell Yet such you see are the conclusions but in deed the delusions of this blasphemous wretch But see it further in the Church of Corinth vnder the Gospel In which were schismes and dissensions strife envying wrath and backbiting vncleanes and wantonnes fornication and incest hurting and jnjurying one of another abusing of Christian liberty sitting in the Idols temple at the Idols feast declining from the Lords ordinance in the vse of the Sacraments prayer and prophecy denying of the resurrection c. If now this white paynted hypocrite had lived in that age and Church as he did with vs of late would he nothing haue respected their faith their order their constitution wherein they were set by the Apostle but reprochfully have concluded and inferred against them as here he doth saying Are these then this beautifull yea most vvonderfull Church ravishing the senses to conceiue of it are these the Saincts then marching in such a heavenly gracious aray where every stone hath his beauty his burthen and his order where no law is vvrongfully vvrested or vvilfully neglected no truth hid or perverted Thus indeed he shall shew himself to be one of those Ministers of Sathan spoken of in that Epistle who can transforme himself as though he were a Minister of righteousnes whose eâ—d â—hal be according to his workes howsoever fâ—r a tyme he may dâ—lude many poore soules and frustrate their expectation as already he hath done As for W. Ha. E. Ha. whose words as if they were of waight he recordeth he should haue remembred that these his companions are such whose mouth is no sclander two such like as himself poor soules in deed as touching faith and godlynes but abundantly rich so to speak in dissembling lying rayling backbiting c. and therefore fit witnesses for such an accuser their owne sayings fit testimonies against themselues that they never needed to have separated themselues from the Church of England as they did being such also as this society would quickly have thrust them out from among vs so living and practising as they do No marvell then if when they had seen our estate they were frustrate of their expectation therefore returned agayne to the Church of EnglaÌ„d knowing it to be a fit cage for such birds And hitherto of the second head of his Treatise concerning the â—â—scription of a visible Church According to which if we would compare the estate of the Church of England in the members officers worship ministration c. as he hath done ours let the Reader consider whether it would not in truth be found so cleare a testimony against them and their practise as neither he nor all his consorts the Prelates and their chapleynes could ever be able to turn away Neyther that onely but even their own description of a visible Church as it is set downe in their Articles of religion agreed vpon in the yeare 1562. Artic. 19. which is thus The visible Church of Christ is a congregation of faithfull men in the which the pure word of God is preached and the Sacraments be duly ministred according to Christs ordinance in all those things that of necessity are requisite to the same Which to vse his own words is a
will vndertake the defence of your own doctrine In that scripture is shewed a power which Christ hath given to his Church ver 17.20 for the removing out of their communion ver 17. such as remayne vnrepentant and obstinate in their sinnes ver 16.17 and therefore excommunication To what end should this doctrine tend if not to bereave the Church of that power which Christ hath left for the sweeping of vncleannes out of the house of God But this shall be further shewed from whose breasts you suckt this poisoned milk which now you give others to drinck if you will not leave the doctrine to the wide world without defence 2. In that you trussed vp another false doctrine on the same Scripture that the party offēder Mat. 18.17 should be an heathē publican only to the party first offēded not to the whole Church Whē as the whol Church hath as much cause to be offended as the party that was first offended yea more cause thē that party had at first to be offended by reason of the continuance in his sinne which the offender hath added to his former sinne If you had vnderstood what had bene meant by trespasse verse 15 you would not haue thus abused this Scripture as may also be further shewed In this point one of your Ministers but of greater wisdome discretion then your self hath signifyed his contrary iudgment to you thereon as I have heard as knowing I doubt not the falsehood and vanity of your assertion thereon Yea I dare vndertake that many of your our owne Ministers of best reformed iudgments will be ashamed of these black drops which falls from your lipps 3. In that you published in like sort that though open offenders did communicate with true Christians yet were they not defiled thereby traducing Mr Iohns 〈◊〉 affirming the contrary And yet when you came to the triall of it in conference between you and my self you said your meaning was of a true Christian in the sight of God not of a true Christian in the sight of men as he is a member of the visible Church and that such a Christian could not sinne or be defiled with sinne in that he was regenerate or borne of God which was never the question betweene vs and so a true Christian did not sinn though he should commit Idolatry Adultery or the like in that sence that you tooke sinning Yea a true Christian might as much be defiled with sinne in communicating with open offenders as by committing adultery for any thing you have said in that conference which is vnder your hand This was your miserable shifting I feare against the light of your conscience Yet Mr Ies. a few dayes after in a conference betweene Mr Pow. and himself at Mr Bayl. on the same question took it in an other sense yea in that sence as which you said you meant not neither could I bring you vnto it as may appeare in that conference Such confusion of languages doth well become the builders of Babell 4. For that in your letter to Mr St. S.W.W.N. dated the 20. of Ian 1603. you would vndertake though no other would assist you yet your self by word or writing or howsoever against whomsoever to iustify your Ministerie doctrine c. and yet by word in conferring you refused to iustify your Ministery whē you were provoked therevnto yea when I offred to prove it false in those particulars you mentioned and to be separated from I offred also to prove your doctrine false on the 18. of Mat. and 13. of Mat. but you refused I desired that I might propose one argument concerning the question between vs but you would deale no further except you might put downe some proof further of that which we never doubted of viz that a true Christian in the sight of God did not sinne in the regenerate part as he was borne of God Was this timorous fearefull dealing answerable to your bombasted boastings let others iudge These be the doctrines of desolation which you do scatter Let others now iudge what cause we haue to account you a false prophet and they in miserable case that are led by such blind guides Did you not tremble to wish in the pulpit that the Lord would stop your mouth if you spake not the truth Your dealing hath confirmed vs and bene a meanes through Gods goodnes to gaine others to the trueth we professe and for your self remember seing you care not what you teach nor how you take the name of God in vaine that which is written Ion. 2.8 that they that wayt vpon lying vanities forsake their owne mercy 3. And yet least the measure of your iniquity were not full already you add violence persecution to your former evill dealing When you are not able to stand by the word you try whether you can suppresse vs by the sword 1 Your self would not suffer Mr Pow. to make answer to you at Slaughtens fearing least your falsehood should be discovered thereby 2 Afterward Mr Ies. by letters intreated him not to make you answer publikly that you might speak what you would without controlement 3 And seing these meanes would not prevayle your self to shew whose servant you are with others went vp againe againe as if much paynes had bene too little to procure a warrant to attach him Will We. told Mr Pow. that Mr Aw was the procurer of the warrant Thus do you by falsehood violence seek to vphold your ruinated kingdome when truth verity hath forsaken her And you shew yourself in deed to be an Edomite red with bloud Ob. 1.10 like the scarlet coloured beast who hath a mouth like a Dragon 4 Your associate Mr At. could tell me that an other place was fitter for me meaning the prison To whō I answered that if I had the gift of dissembling which he had to subscribe against my conscience as he did I told him then whē wher I might live longe enough inioy Achans wedge as himself doth without abridgement of liberty You of all others may be ashamed to dissemble thus with the Prelates knowing how basely you have thought spoke of them 5 You Mr Aw could call vs brethren afterward being vrged for your dissembling you could expound your meaning that it was in respect of creation and so Cayn Ismaell Antichrist be your brethren too yea nearer of kin then so by persecution too 6 Your self could say not long since that of all sects on some conditions you could soonest joyne to vs as being nearest the truth yet a little after call vs rebells but rebellion being a high degree of treason your self if you conceale it 24. houres will incurr the danger thereof looke you to it 7 You promised by writing to put downe reasons to iustify your Ministerie and doctrine betweene vs conferred of but we thought before how slack we should find you in performance At your next comming to Slaughtens
doth he proue it so to be held by vs If malice had not possessed him this error had never ben imputed to vs eyther as held by the Church or partaken in by the Elders Sometimes in deed we haue had speach among vs of the vnlawfulnes as we were perswaded for man and wife to live together after adultery coÌ„mitted about the band of wedlock being broken thereby whether that in the case of adultery vnknowen to others the offenders were to reveale themselves or not About which latter points when we shewed our judgment reasons this Tho. White who then was present did much vrge that a man who knew such a crime by himself must reveale it or els live in sinne with one that was not his lawfull wife Wherevpon some of vs reasoned with him about it holding that a man should not so reveale himself The end was that we differed in judgemâ—nt about these things having had speach of them but by occasion so rested for the present Will he now therefore make collections and frame positions of his owne or others speâ—châ—s and say as in his letter that they are false doctrines that ly vpon the Church or as here in his Libell that they are blasphemous doctrines of the Church What good dealing this is let the Reader judge And concerning the question aforesaid whereas some of vs were thus minded about it that a man having coÌ„mitted adultery which is vnknoweÌ„ to others is not bound by the word of God to reveale himself but vnfeynedly to repent thereof and that in such case he may notwithstanding lawfully continue with his wife Although I be not here in particular to handle this point yet I will now propound these few things to be considered about it As namely what Scriptures teach a man so to accuse â—imself whether it be not vnnaturall for a man so to do whether in Israell the womaÌ„ spoken of Numb 5.12.13 were bound to reveale her adultery being vnknowen vntill or vnlesse her husband were moved with the spirit of ielousy as the Law there is given And wheâ—her â—â—w â—en should of themselves reveale such their case to the Magistrates who haue power to put them to death for it By what Law of God they are bound therevnto And whether els they cannot haue true rpentance but deny the prophecy of Christ erre fundamentally as here he would perswade 2. The second is That there are qualities in God not essentiall that love in God is not of his being but that the self same love that is in God that is also in vs. Himself knoweth and hath bene here convinced of the notable falsehood hereof yet shameth not thus to publish it against vs. And that now the Reader may know how the matter arose I will briefly shew it We haue in our Church the vse of the exercise of Prophecy spoken of in 1 Cor. 14. chap. Rom. 12.6 1 Thes. 5.20 In which some of the brethren such as for gifts are best able though not in office of Ministery deliver from some portion of Scripture doctrine exhortation comfort sometimes two at a tyme sometymes mo Then also if there be occasion vpon the Scripture treated of are questions propounded and answers made accordingly And the whole action moderated by some of the officers and Overseers of the Church In this exercise the first Epistle of Iohn being treated of vpon these words He that loveth not knoweth not God for God is love the poynt aforesaid was by way of quâ—stioÌ„ spoken of And about it there was reasoning by two or three of the brethren this White himself with obiections and answers diversly Wherevpon this Doeg by some of those brâ—threns reasoning the opinion of one of them about this matter took the occasion thus to reproach vs which first he did more privately and now hath done it publikely to the world Wherein his evill dealing is the more notorious because himself being then present knoweth how both at the same tyme the moderation thereof by one of the Elders was according to tâ—e truth disproving the error aforsaid which he would impute vnto vs and afterward he carying himself verie yll about it other things that the matter was againe heard examined in the publick congregation where to his face he was convinced to be a false accuser therein Besides he knoweth the Confession of our faith long since published which alone doth so fully cleare vs in it as very shame of men if no feare of God might haue restrayned his lying lippes and kept him from blaspheming vs with so black a mouth 3. A third thing there was â—nd that obiected by him publickly in the Church and noted also in his letter as a false doctrine lying vpon the Church Namely that vvhen a matter is in the third place to be brought to the Church by the rule of Christ Mat. 18.15.16.17 our order being that the â—lders first have knowledg thereof given them by the parties themselues then that the case being such as is to come to the Church it be publickly propounded and handled by them as in respect of their office apperteyneth vnto them being the governors and overseers of the Church This he blamed then as an error false doctrine contrary to Christs rule Mat. 18. But here now he concealeth it And good cause why For when he was called vpoÌ„ for his proof hereof in the publick CongregatioÌ„ where he had made the accusation he was glad to answer that he vvas not provided And this also after a weeks respite to consider of it Wherevpon he was rebuked as hasty to accuse and slow to prove whereas wisedome would haue taught him first to haue bene provided of proof before he had set himself to accuse as he did But if now he think it to be no error in vs and therefore speakes not of it he might even by this haue learned to set a watch before his mouth at least not to haue barked rgainst vs in so vile a maner as he hath done Or if he still think that we erre therein contrary to Christs rule Mat. 18. as he obiected heretofore why hath he not here noted it downe with the other aforesaid Is it because that ordinance of Christ overthroweth the Prelacy and government of the Church of England whither he is now revolted it being such as they neyther do neyther can in their constitution obserue that rule at all But how then can he approue them for a true Church in such estate and how will he answer the reason alledged by vs against theÌ„ heretofore in this respect which is this Every true visible Church of Christ hath Christs power spoken of Mat. 18 17.18 to cast out â—â—â—unate sinners from among them But the Ecclesiasticall assemblyes of England haue not the power of Christ there spoken of to cast out obstinate sinners from among them Therefore the Ecclesiasticall assemblies of England cannot in their constitution be
tyme to tyme while we live here on earth If then this saying of the Lords prayer as a prayer be a false way of worshipping God it was excluded by their calling and fellowship in the Gospell howsoever they fell into the vse of it If it be not a false way then were it but our errour so to think which we were also to corrrect the description notwithstanding still should stand good Now what our judgement is concerning the right vse of that forme of prayer together with our reasons out of the Scripture thereabout we haue often shewed and published heretofore in divers treatises which till they be answered and refuted I shall not need here to repeat them or to insist any further vpon that matter Onely thus much now If the vsing of the Lords prayer as a prayer be a part of the worship of God appointed by Christ then did the Apostles in the planting of the Primitive Churches teach them so to vse it For they were inioyned by Christ to teach whatsoever he commaunded them and so they did Mat. 28.20 with Act. 2.42 and 4.24 31. and 20.27 1 Cor. 11.23 But that they taught to vse it thus none can shew eyther in their Acts or in their Epistles And Tertullian saith if they regard his testimony Scriptura negat quod non notat The Scripture denyeth that which it noteth not This man therefore and such as do so hold that the Lords prayer is to be vsed as a prayer are bound to shew by the Scriptures that the Apostles did teach the first Churches thus to vse it vnles they would with the Papists argue the Scripture of imperfection or the Apostles of vnfaithfulnes 3. The distinction of faulty and false is here also to be observed True Churches may be faulty in sundry things as those of Asia Corinth c. and yet not straightway therefore be false Churches True Prophets may be faulty in divers things as Ieremiah Ionah c. and yet they be no false Prophets True worshippers of God may be faulty in their worship many wayes as may be seen in Corinth Colosse c. and yet not therefore be false worshippers By which examples also may appeare both what difference is between false and faulty and how needfull it is alwayes in these cases to be duly regarded 4. His proof that the Lords prayer was vsed as a Prayer from the Apostles age is out of Tertullian whose words be these Quoniam Dominus prospector humanarum necessitatuÌ„ seorsum post traditam orandi disciplinam Petite inquit accipietis sunt quae petantur pro circumstantia cuiusque praemissa legitima ordinaria oratione quasi fundamento accidentium ius est desideriorum ius est superstruendi extriusecus petitiones Cum memoria tamen praeceptorum ne quantum a praeceptis tantum ab auribus Dei longè simus Because the Lord that seeth mans necessities did apart after the doctrine of prayer delivered say Ask ye shall receive and there be things to be asked according to the circumstance of every one the lawfull and ordinary prayer being premised as a foundation we may for the desires that fall out we may from without it build therevpon our petitions yet with remeÌ„brance of the things coÌ„maunded least we be as far froÌ„ the eares of the Lord as from his commaundements Towching this testimony if it were a thing to be stood vpon in this case many things might be excepted 1. Tertullian lived about 200 yeares after the Apostles dayes 2. Many things were held lawfull ordinarily vsed in his tyme which were not at all in the Apostles dayes As prayer with cloakes put off and hands washed signing with the crosse and annoynting with oyle after Baptisme Godfathers and Godmothers mixing of water with wine in the Lords supper oblations for the dead Lenten fast holy water c. 3. He also followed was infected with divers errors which 〈…〉 judgement even in his owne tyme reproved and rejected As the Iewish errour of the Chiliastes that the godly shall haue a pleasant life on earth a thousand yeares before the end of the world Also that the Angels fell for lust of women That Noah Abraham and others of those tymes were righteous by the righteousnes of the Law of nature Whither also may be referred his errors about Freewill Satisfaction for sinnes superstitious Fasts heresies of Montanus c. Not to speak how from his exposition of the Lords Prayer even in this book here alledged the Papists would gather proof for their heresie of Transubstantiation and the Lutherans of Consubstantiation Againe he disallowed sundry things which were approued theÌ„ by others according to the truth As the Baptisme of children second mariages fleing in tyme of persecution c. 4. But if they think there be such weight in TertulliaÌ„s testimony why do they theÌ„ at their preaching vse the Lords prayer after their owne prayers when as Tertullian saith it vvas first premised as a foundation vvherevpon petitions from out of it might be built Which admitting the vse of it yet sheweth a quite different vsing of it then from that which now is had And let it here be noted by the way that Tertullian doth often in that book call it a forme doctrine of prayer and sheweth that Christ hath not tyed vs to the vse of those words but thereon to build our petitions as vpon a foundation according to the need occasion of euery one following his precepts Why also do they not hearâ—en to Tertullian when in the same book he saith Such things are iustly to be charged with vanity as are done without authority of any precept eyther of the Lord or of the Apostles And when other where he saith The Apostles did faithfully deliver to the nations the discipline they received of Christ And that no continuance of times or supportation of persons can preiudice the truth If they wil belieue TertulliaÌ„ their book of coÌ„mon prayer their Prelacy Priesthood crosse surplice and the like reteyned among them may justly be charged with vanity as being never appoynted by the Lord or his Apostles Neither can al their gloses perswade that ever they came from Christ seing the Apostles did not deliver them to the nations as appeareth by their writings Nor is it material whatsoever continuance of tymes they pretend or supportation of persons they may have None can preiudice the truth as Tertullian sayth And for the poynt in hand except they can shew that the Apostles did teach to vse the Lords prayer as a prayer it is neither the continuance of tymes nor the supportation of any persons be they Old writers or Churches that can be admitted for a sufficient warrant even by Tertullians owne testimonie For the Churches that now are we also refer it to our dealing with them In our writings wee haue often signified our esteeming of them for true Churches and in our walking towards
that his work may endure the triall of the fyer and by the light of the same fire reveale the Tymber Hay Stubble of false Teachers He must take diligent heed to keep the Church from errours And further he must deliver his doctrine so plainly simplie purely that the Church may increase with the increasing of God and grow vp vnto him which is the head Christ Iesus Hitherto is that description wherein the qualities and duties set downe be many and great 1. Yet cannot this Adversarie satisfy himself with them all as he would and therefore coming to make exceptions against the Teacher he fetcheth his first out of the generall description of the Church spoken of before objecting that the Teacher is sleyned with hypocrisie and to proue it he alledgeth his dealing concerning G. I. M. Sl. Yet sheweth it not so much as in any one particular thinking belike that some are so simple in themselues or so set against vs as they will take his word for proof sufficient who â—eyther knoweth that dealing himself in the things which he knoweth can ly so notoriously as if he had the art of lying and would be a teacher thereof vnto others 2. The second thing he objecteth is apostasie because that many yeares since having received this cause he did sometimes yeeld to heare the Ministery of the Church of England But synce that tyme hath so approved himself among vs both in the witnesse of the trueth in the service of the Church as hath ben for the great help and comfort of vs all and my self in particular bound to testify concerning him as Paul did of Marcus Barnabas sisters sonne that that he hath ben my workfellow vnto the kingdome of God which hath ben to my consolation Col. 4.10.11 For the question it self and our account of Apostasie I shall write more particularly hereafter 3. The third thing is that he saith he hath ben a meanes to bring in and defend false doctrines But what be they First The latter of those two before mentioned Now that latter was about apostasie in the matter aforesaid So as then himself accounteth them to be apostates that having held our cause do afterward yeeld to heare the Ministery of the Church of England and that it is a false doctrine that any such may afterward beare office in the Church And what then is this Whites own case who being a Minister of the Church of England left both that Church and Ministery and received our cause and witnessed the trueth against them and yet now hath yeelded not onely to heare but even to execute himself the Ministerie of that Church againe But he will say that among the Errata at the end of his book he noted this for one that for the word latter we should here read former I have obserued it and well in deed might he note it amoÌ„g his Errata who even while he would blame others of errour doth so straungely erre himself as to put latter for former one contrarie for another But this might be an oversight as often falleth out in printing which therefore I would not haue noted but that I think there is a worse thing in it namely that at first he both wrote and meant it of the latter which is about apostasie vntill he had himself apostate from the tâ—ueth and executed agayne his Ministery received from the Prelates in England and therevpon now would alter it measuring the doctrines of religion not by the word of God but as may best serue his own turne And I am perswaded the rather thus to think for these reasons 1 because when he began to set himself to be an enemie of this Church and could not prevaile as he desired he then began to make question about apostasie whether any such might beare office in the Church 2. If we vnderstand it here of the former as his Errata now would haue it read it is nothing to the purpose at all seing there is in it no speach of any points of doctrine but of hypocrisie and seing an hypocrite may notwithstanding teach true doctrine For els it would follow that neither Iudas nor White himself did heretofore teach true doctrine when they preached because Iudas was and he is an hypocrite both of them through hypocrisie betraying Christ into the hands of his enemies His other proof of false doctrines which he pretendeth is set down after his woonted manner others that may be alledged yet not naming any which no doubt he would have done if he could or if he durst adventure the triall of them with the Teacher of our Church whom he thus envieth and abuseth who notwithstanding for his learning wisdome and godlynes as also for his faithfull teaching of the Church and vpright walking toward all is so well knowen approued as neither he nor we need regard any adversaries malice opposition against him After this he commeth from the teaching to the ruling Elders whose properties and duties are thus noted in the description abovesaid Pag. 4. Their Elders must be of wisedome and iudgment endued with the Spirit of God able to discerne between cause and cause between plea and plea and accordingly to prevent and redresse evils alwayes vigilant intending to see the statutes ordinances and lawes of God kept in the Church and that not onely by the people in obedience but to see the Officers do their duties These men must be of life likewise vnreproveable governing their own families orderly they must be also of maners sober gentle modest loving temperate c. And afterward againe pag. 5. Their especiall care must be to see the ordinaunces of God truely taught practised aswell by the Officers in doing their dutie vprightly as to see that the people obey willingly and readily It is their dutie to see the Congregation holily and quietly ordered and no way disturbed by the contentioâ—s and disobedient froward and obstinate not taking away the libertie of the least but vpholding the right of all wiselie iudging of times and circumstances They must be ready assistaunts to the Pastour and Teachers helping to beare their burden but not intruding into their office Thus is the description Now towching our Elders he taketh here his exception against two of them The first is Mr Da. St. against whom it may be he is the more eagerly caryed because he discerned so quickly into him being a notable white hypocrite and dealt so plainly roundly with him as he did And therefore also excâ—pteth not a word against him for his ability to discerne into persons and causes and to deale with them accordingly nor for sundrie other of the properties and duties here required though they be many and waighty Yet some things he speaketh of which he had twise before besides that which he hath also hereafter so as I need not repeat and speak of them as he doth againe and againe Yet somewhat more I will note here touching the particulars
And this according to his owne prophecy though as Caiaphas speaking more trueth then himself intended when to the same Mr S. W. he wrote thus also Certainly if God doth not worke mightily for vs we shall come to desolation Balaam even then when he would have cursed Israel prophecied the truth though against his will 5. The fift is a meer calumniation like the rest In the place quoted we blame in the Dutch as we do also in the French Church of this towne that the rule and commaundement of Christ Mat. 18.15.16.17 they neyther observe nor suffer rightly to be observed among them If this man-pleaser could approue them herein why doth he not For our selves we do carefully observe it think all the Churches of Christ are bound so to do For deciding of matters which are of publick nature they are made knowen and decided among vs in by the whole body of the Church and not by the Elders alone Yet therein we have this order that all such matters be first signifyed to the Elders to whom the oversight of the Church and affaires thereof apperteyneth by whom likewise they are proprounded advised treated of also publickly as the cases do require Of which points we have spoken sufficient at least till we be answered in our Apologie against the Oxf. Doct. pag. 63.64 Notwithstanding if any come to the Elders eyther for our advise or to have some matters brought to the Church we shew them what we think to be best as we are perswaded our selves yet debar not any from proceeding further so as they will answer their doing to the Church as there the case shal be found to be And this to be our practise and maner of walking I think this man himself knoweth well For T. C. his matter the Elders did not decide it as he falsely saith but shewed him what we our selves thought to be best according to godlynes and required of him to do no otherwise in it then he could answer to God and to the Church Of the matter it self as also of W. H. is spoken here before pag. 33. And for that he saith here seeing W.H. his wife put him away who can constreine her or any other in like case to retein such if themselves be not willing For the bringing of matters in a third place to the Elders as they have obiected Mr P. himself the rest of them have ben answered that we do not so but that when in the third place a matter is to come vnto the Church by that rule of Mat. 18. this is the order we keep therein that first knowledg thereof be given to the Elders the overseers of the Church then that they seing the matter to be such and so dealt in as is to come to the Church it be by them publickly propounded and prosequuted as is meet whereas otherwise both the Church might be troubled and mens names and private matters be brought in publick without iust cause And this we do not adding to that rule of Christ as this man and his followers have still objected but having that care and keeping that order in the observation thereof as the Scriptures els where lead vs vnto For which see 1 Tim. 5.17.18.19.21.22 4.14 Heb. 13.17 Rom. 12.7.8.1 Thes. 5.12.13.14.27 Rev. 2.1.7.8.11.12.18.29 3.1.6.7.13.14.22 with Exod. 3.16 4.29.30.31 12.21 and with 1 Cor. 14.40 By which also may appeare how frivolous it is that he saith we alledge the same reasons for our practise which we approue noâ— in â—he Dutch As if we should put no difference between the Eldership alone hearing and deciding the publick matters of the Church between the Elders according to their office having knowledg advising and propounding of such matters to be heard and discussed by the body of the Church joâ—ntly together Or as if the reasons which warrant a lawfull thing should also beare out that which is vnlawfull or that we should not therefore disallow them when by any they are so applyed And for the abuse of that rule of Mat. 18. whether through evill affection in partiality and envie or to an evill end to cover filthynes withall if any do so as he saith measuring others it may be by the length of his owne foot they are to answer it to God who knoweth the heart and tryeth the reynes to give to every one according to their works Our duty is for that which man may see judge to have that rule as all other the ordinances of Christ carefully observed among vs Whereat let him consider if his heart grieve not more then it doth that the Church of England of which he is neyther doth nor can in their estate observe that nor many other the ordinances of Christ by reason whereof they cannot be esteemed a true Church of Christ in such constitution As I shewed before pag. 8. 6. For the sixt which is about the worshipping of God in the Idol TeÌ„ples of Antichrist can he not put difference between the ordinarie publick worship of the Church in such places and the occasionall receiving of aâ—mes therein by the poore Neither between the benevolence of a Church to the Ministers or Saints of Christ which is â—he sacrifice spoken of Phil. 4.18 the relief of a City given to the poore that dwell among them be they of any religion whatsoever one or other Which I speak not as discommending the care they have for the poore among them which is very great and much commendable but to shew the nature of this action how it is performed Nor will he discerne between the solemne appointed worship of God by the Church so assembled together and the private duties of thankfulnes of salutation or the like Or doth he think we hold it not lawfull to walk vp and downe in the Idol Temples as they vse in Powles at London or if we be walking there to lift vp our hearts to God as occasion may be or if we meet some there of whom we have received a benefit to give theÌ„ thankes Or if their Temples were made prisons as in Powles aforesaid there are divers and some of vs committed thither as heretofore sundry have bene by the Prelates that we would not pray there yea preach also as there might be occasion Or when we did so would he therevpon inferre as now he doth that we coÌ„demne others in those things which we would and do our selues A senseles conclusioÌ„ but wel beseming a Baals Priest that hath a good will if he had ability withall to plead for Baals altars and houses As for the poynt it self and the place of Deut. 12. we haue written already in other Treatises not yet aunswered Therefore need I not now write more about it here But let the Reader obserue here how this Idoll Priest himself yeeldeth these places to be Idoll Temples and the Temples of Antichrist Yet bringeth no warrant for the reserving and appoynting of them to spirituall vse